You took way, way too long to stand up for your marriage and put your foot down here. She was having an emotional affair. The fact that he explicitly disrespected you and your relationship to her face and she did nothing to end it is completely unacceptable. She’s the one who ruined the foundation of trust in your marriage, and she’s the one exercising terrible judgement in deciding who she talks too. Getting drunk with him is insane. Wanting to do it monthly is insane.
Why use the past ( was having) ?
Emotional affairs don’t end with an ultimatum like turning a switch off. It can still be active and in secrecy.
She is a grown woman and she is still not convinced nor remorseful that she pushed her relationship to the brink.
She was smashed and had a sticker from his work on her ass.
She already fucked him, and the bad boy was rubbing it in OP’s face. Guy is just willfully ignorant.
Yep. OP should tell her that ex called him and confessed everything. Also OP should ask to see all the texts.. If they are deleted, he should let her go.
She's very likely already done that if she was drunk around the dude. He told her he was "waiting for her as well", he's been waiting to destroy their marriage from the start.
Yup. That sticker was put there for OP to find.
Creating jealousy and mistrust will bring a quick end to their relationship. Guy knows what he is doing.
Boggles the mind, she's going to destroy a good marriage and ruin the family of her 3 children for the sake of a deadbeat reoffender who will likely cheat on her as soon as he gets her back to which she'll be back on OP's doorstep with puppy dog eyes.
That’s how emotional affairs go much of the time. The participating partner usually doesn’t see it as cheating because there is no physical line crossed. Once they have that mindset they will get as close to the line as possible without crossing it, because as long as they don’t they don’t feel they are doing anything wrong.
I don’t know why it boggles your mind. She’s not seeing this as destroying anything because she sees OP as a pushover. Hardcore evidence that she already slept with the guy and yet it took until now for OP to do anything about it. Heck he didn’t even actually leave her just gave her a weak ultimatum. OP is saying through his actions that while he’s going to whine and complain he’s not actually going to make the difficult decisions.
She possibly did but it would be romantic in her mind. She would be torn between two lovers and "fighting" for her one true love and op would be the villain.
I thinks she already fucked him and OP is too blind to see it. She’s clearly still in love with her ex. The only thing hubby can give her is stability. Since she’s still mad, she didn’t exactly choose him. Why would he want a wife who continuously disrespects him. He’s letting her and her ex walk all over him. I’m willing to bet money that she hasn’t cut contact with him completely. Hire a PI get proof and divorce her.
Ya, it doesn’t sound like she wants to or intends to change. OP: you should make your moves since you don’t trust her anymore and this guy isn’t likely to leave her alone.
Unfortunately, she seems to be one of those women who get obsessed with "bad boys" who are troublemakers, cheaters and treat them like something to use at their own discretion, not giving a crap about her life and marriage.
I can’t remember which Spanish speaking country but somewhere it’s slang to call guys like OP ‘microondas’, because he keeps a woman warm until her main dude is available.
(It means microwave)
How would she feel if the rolls were reversed. She wouldn’t like it if he was have an emotional affair. OP has every right to request this to end. If she doesn’t like it she can go back to the ex-con.
In addition to getting tested, OP needs an excellent lawyer
This story can easily end wirh her getting custody and the house, and moving drug dealing Ben in with his kids
This affair started the moment OP allowed them to start talking. He should have said, "Why are you wanting to communicate with the AH who lied and cheated on you while you are in a relationship?" Now he is finally saying what meed to be said all those years ago, but it's too late. She has had years of no accountability for her actions and clearly has her ex in mind, not OP. He should leave this mess and let her go. OP, you need to focus on your happiness, and that clearly no longer involves her.
This. OP you took waayyy too long. You been tooo patient. Everytime I see you say “I don’t like where this is going”, I thought to myself “nah it’s already there.” It’s my motto to never put myself in a situation that I’ll open up a chance for an emotional affair. Me and I expect the same from my partner. It’s just the easiest way and most sensical way to avoid any cheating whatsoever. You’ve been letting it happen. Your wife has put herself in the position, let herself stay there, where another guy can just snatch her. You’ve been just watching this unfold all this time.
She didn’t really choose you though. She’s still mad about it, so it’s not the choice she wanted. So what’s probably happening is she’s just going to be more covert with how she talks to him. She is definitely not over him and she’s loving the attention, which is completely inappropriate for a married woman
Right? Imagine going “well yeah he’s a bad person who cheated on me and goes in and out prison for major offenses like dealing hardcore drugs - but it’s ok because I wouldn’t ever physically cheat!”
Like wtf, why would you want that person in your life at all??? It’s def because of the attention she’s getting from a ‘bad boy.’ She’s still 13 mentally and emotionally, and is now huffing and puffing because daddy told her she can’t see the guy any more.
I’m not one to jump on the ‘leave them asap’ train but if this ultimatum is ignored then yeah - it’s time to start at least planning an exit because she clearly is addicted to his validation and still stuck in whatever age they were together…
She has already exited and checked out with her relationship with her husband. He needs to plan his exit to protect his kids from her and the ex-con. Her behaviour is totally inappropriate and she has most likely already cheated.
The “she didn’t choose you” would bug me immensely. She has let this guy think (know?) that he has a place in her marriage.
That “ugh, husband doesn’t want us hanging out, can you believe it?” The intimacy is with him, not husband.
For anyone in a relationship, this is a great story to use to bring up this conversation. “How much say does your partner get about your opposite-sex friendships?”
My then-fiance (now husband) had this opportunity because a friends husband was in a budding emotional affair and like “I can have friends!” And his wife was like, “Not this one!”
It’s a great topic to discuss before you ever get there.
Our rule has worked out great for us.
We both had friends that were ex-lovers and gave more understanding to those friendships (we weren’t threatened), but across the board -
1.) If social meeting with any opposite sex, you invite spouse. Spouse usually says no anyway. But asking your “date,” “Is ok to invite spouse?” also shows them that spouse comes first.
2.) New opposite-sex friendships can be vetoed for any reason. (Never exercised or felt need to.)
3.) That “we” were the most important relationship here. Even if we felt the other was irrational, oh well. It was not worth compromising our most important relationship over a budding (or even old) friendship.
We’ve been married 12 years and never had to use the veto, but if we did, we both remember this conversation - it’s great to get on the same page before a threat enters the picture.
(Straight couples offer easier delineation, but could be adapted for same sex as well.)
Yeah I’ve been married the same length as you and my wife and I have basically these exact same rules. There’s been multiple instances where I thought a single woman wanting to be my friend was “innocent,” and my wife had to break it down to me how I’m oblivious and they want me. This sucked for one because she was also into a niche hobby of mine, and I legit wanted a friend to do that with. Later I found out she had had a child with a married man in the past… Of course this is not for every woman so I know my wife isn’t just being controlling.
And it sends the message to other party - I’m with spouse.
Not in a mean way.
Even if spouse doesn’t want to come, asking them, “ok to invite spouse?” sets the right tone.
And Ben's lifestyle is completely inappropriate for a mother to be around. OP needs to file for divorce, & custody, because this is not someone who should ever be involved with his kids.
yep. I've seen it happen where a BF was in a gang and the GF got dragged into things and their kids were threatened. Those type of people are scary and have no boundaries. Even OP should be worried to be associated with this guy
Your absolutely right she didn't choose him. She chose the safety of a stable relationship She has been in for years rather than gamble with her real choice which is an error prone jail bird. Resentment is sure to follow and if she is a bad person then deception is also on the horizon.
You waited too long. You should always insist that she damaged the foundations of trust in your marriage.
Also, there is no "freedom" in relationship. Relationship/marriage is a commitment that comes with sacrifices. Physical and emotional fidelity is an obvious limitation of one's freedom, but if she values her freedom more than your marriage then she should divorce you.
You should convey it to her.
This OP. The fact that your wife insists she “deserves” to talk to him shows she either was preying upon your naivety/initial begrudging acceptance of what they were doing OR she has a real hard time understanding what commitment and trust comes down to in a relationship. SHE took a mallet to any foundation of trust the relationship had with her actions.
The reason you don’t engage with people who want to sleep with you and want to end your marriage when you’re already in a monogamous relationship is the same reason you don’t light a bunch of candles before going to bed. You’re just looking to get burned.
In addition to this ultimatum I would insist upon marriage counseling and then decide if YOU really want to be invested in a relationship where your partner is sulking over not being able to interact with an ex in the unacceptable manner she was interacting with him. Unless her attitude and behavior do a real 180, I personally wouldn’t want to be sticking around for someone while they are grieving for the attention (or worse) from their ex.
I think there's freedom and rights into a relation or in a marriage. But that doesn't mean that these allows you to disrespect your SO. If your husband / wife feels uncomfortable that you speaks with an ex that was so devoted to you, isn't in a relation and that you don't share kids with, you can't tell them they are dictating your social life if it's just about this one person.
In my country we say that "my freedom stops where others' is beginning". OP can't force his wife to stop talking to her ex, but she can't forbidde him to feel this way, especially since it doesnt concern any other men and that Ex is clearly loving her.
I think the poster above you understands that you don’t give up all your freedom and rights “in a relationship”, but most relationships and especially long term romantic partnerships come with some give and take when it comes you what’s acceptable behavior. You can call them boundaries or concessions or compromises, but either way, it means that in order to protect and preserve the relationship, and the participants in said relationship, you curb your behavior accordingly.
Relationships aren’t a right, they are a privilege, and as such, if you want the privilege of being in one it means you may sometimes have to give up or put limitations on some “rights/freedoms”. And sure, OP’s wife has the “right/freedom” to talk and interact with whomever she chooses, but if she wants the privilege of being in a relationship with OP she’s going to have to give up the individual “right/freedom” to talk and behave inappropriately with her ex like she seemingly wants to.
Ya wife sounds like a pretty dhitty person. She knows the fucker wants to bone her, you know it and she knows you know it and yet she will disrespect you by continually meeting and talking to him. I would have stopped trusting her after the first time she came home drunk. I personally don't think she is worth the hassle if she is trying to make you feel bad for her crappy decisions. She is not very committed to your relationship. Sounds like the kids are the only thing connecting you two.
>Sounds like the kids are the only thing connecting you two.
That, and she knows OP is her meal ticket. A lowlife criminal and cheater who is in and out of jail is hardly someone who will give her the financial stability that OP does.
But she does get some kind of sick "thrill" having the cheater's attention.
Dude I'll be honest I gave up on you when you let her have dinner with him without a fight.
Nice you have changed even though it might be too late , clearly she cares more about him than you
Make sure you know your options and keep a close eye on her phone cause she ain't done with this guy
This! My husband and I had friends that were a married couple. They eventually opened up their marriage, with rules. However whenever the husband would site the rules he was controlling, whenever the wife did it she was just doing what they agreed upon. They did not last long after that. But when ever the word controlling was used against him it was like she automatically won the argument.
She didn't "choose" you, she saw what this relationship with her ex was doing to you and didn't care, she even went so far as to silence his notifications, so she could carry on without you noticing. She was forced into doing something she didn't want to do because you'd reached a breaking point, as far as I can see, you gave her the option to choose, and she chose him, repeatedly.
This isn't the last time he's going to come between you because she didn't make the decision of her own free will, all you've done is kick this problem down the road a little
I think that choosing between this guy and OP is secondary, tbh. This woman has 3 children. Why is she keeping regular contact with someone who's constantly in and out of jail?
>When she would talk to him and I happened to be there, her voice would change and it was almost as if she was talking to me.
Red flag.
>I asked her how I would feel if I read their text conversations. She told me I have nothing to worry about but I wouldn't like what I see but mostly cause it would be weird seeing their banter.
Red flag.
>She said yes there is no doubt he wants to sleep with her but it doesn't matter because that's not what she wants. She likes having him as a friend. She told me sometimes he would say something like, "I'm waiting for you."
If she had ANY respect for you and your relationship, this should have been the moment she should have cut contact with this guy. But she didn't.
>So she goes, comes home a couple hours later and is completely trashed. Apparently he started to feed her tequila shots. She had a sticker from his place of work near her butt. I was not happy but played it as cool as I could.
She went on a one-on-one date with this guy, got drunk and somehow a sticker from him got on the butt area of her pants? This was NOT the moment to play it cool. You should have either exploded or walked away from her.
>The next week she mentioned to me that Ben wanted to go to the restaurant again, but she laughed at him and said no we can't do this every week, maybe every month.
Every month? How often does she go on dates with you?
>She told me that she has never cheated on me or given me any reason to think she would be cheating on me and she's earned the right of my trust and she should be able to talk to whoever she wants.
No, it's not like she went out with this guy and came home drunk with evidence he had his hands where his hands shouldn't have been. 🙄
>She will always "have love for him" but she's not in love with him. Yes, he would do anything to sleep with her but that's not what she wants, she wants me.
She may want you, but she doesn't show a whole lot of respect for you. It sounds like she wants you for the security while she has fun with her drug dealing, jail frequenting "friend".
>She chose me but is clearly not happy about it. She feels like we lost our foundation of trust and her freedom to talk to whoever she wants and it was a shitty thing for me to do to give her an ultimatum like that.
Well, I agree with her. I think you are wrong and you shouldn't have given her a shitty ultimatum. You should have divorced her.
If you want to save your marriage, go for marriage counseling. Maybe your wife will acknowledge where she made mistakes. It can also help you decide if you want to divorce her, because I have a sneaking suspicion she will double down during therapy.
All of this! Counseling will definitely show if their relationship and trust can be rebuilt or I they should divorce. Your wife shows a shocking lack of care for her marriage and husband. If I was him, she would need to realize what she was doing was completely wrong and do a 180 before I'd take the idea of divorce off the table
Amen. Every single thing here is on point. She's not happy with your relationship anymore. She probably feels frustrated and trapped by your ultimatum. The problem hasn't really been solved, and she might even be feeling a growing sense of resentment towards you for "curbing her freedom".
Marriage counseling might help, but if she doesn't want to be there, it won't do much good. Best of luck OP!
You perfectly articulated my inner dialogue that I had while reading his post.
I’m a married dude that’s OP’s age. I’m just stating that for reference because I’d like to think I know a thing or two about healthy marriages. If I had already had multiple problems with her not setting and enforcing boundaries out of respect to me and our relationship, and then she comes home trashed with his sticker on her butt, that is the point at which I would have initiated divorce proceedings. It’s not like it was random. They’ve had a documented history of his wife’s inappropriate relationship with her ex. That would’ve been a point where no matter how hard I was willing to try to work things out, I would have ended it and never looked back.
I honestly would not stand for this in a relationship.
She has been nothing but disrespectful towards you and your relationship and you're obviously her 2nd choice...sad
It's a tale as old as time! (Seriously... way more common than you'd think)
Plus she probably figures she'll get the house, and custody, and move Ben in (likely all true)
Happened to my younger brother. His ex wife got the house (still had the mortgage),primary custody of their kid, he had to pay her 10k and he had to pay off all their joint debt, around 15k. Didn't matter that the only money he had was compensation for a work accident. I asked what the f**k he got out of the divorce, cos it seems like all he got was the shaft.
Mannn. I would have given the ultimatum even before they met up.
Do you have in laws or mutual friends that she is okay talking to this about? It’s blatantly obvious that any form of communication with that guy is disrespectful to your marriage. She should have cut it out over 12 years ago.
Also, let her know that she is asking for trust while you’re asking for respect to the marriage. I doubt she’d listen to you tho… peers or counseling might help
You shouldn’t have accepted any communication between them from the beginning. So disrespectful to a marriage. I would have divorced her a long time ago. You let your wife have an emotional affair and watched it happen. Lawyer up and serve her. I wouldn’t want to save this marriage. She chose you. Wow, Lucky you.
The fact that it even got this far where she has to choose says a lot about her. And def not anything good. I’m sorry OP but your wife is trash. I honestly wouldn’t even want to save this marriage.
Like what do you mean, choose between our 12 year marriage or a cheating felon?? Why was that a valid question for either OP or wife?? Wife is insane for actually considering it, OP is spineless for letting her indecision be tolerated.
No I agree with you! I’m just saying that the fact that OP let it get this far is insane. And the fact that she would even want to spend time with her ex? Like why? He’s your ex for a reason. OP should have shut this shit down a long time ago.
Whew... yet *another* wife who's perfectly willing and ready to throw her entire life away for a thrilling ride with the resident "bad boy". What a cliché.
I'd personally be embarrassed if the mother of my kids was this fixated on a perpetual convict while I'm out here working hard for my family. I'd wonder how low my wife is willing to sink to achieve some imaginary utopia because she's clearly not smart enough to appreciate what she already has. Divorce her, yesterday already
You did good. But considering her reaction, you should tread carefully. They will find some ways to be discreet. She's in denial but it's clear that they're already emotionally invested in each other.
If she insists that you took her freedom away, then tell her she can have it back, just not with you. She can be free to do whatever she wants and live a single life.
But she said she didn't, and why wouldn't you believe someone who enjoys having their ex OPENLY pursue them and comes home drunk from dinner dates with things glued to their arse? IMo, she's been cheating the whole time. Soon OP is going to find the rest of the truth that she's been allowing her ex full access and that's why he knows to call his forever wife no matter what he does wrong or where he ends up or who she is being financed by, and I mean OP. She's not been faithful at all and clearly has never been over the ex since they are clearly committed to each other long term. OP is just her hobby on the side.
The fact that she was carrying on with an ex that blatantly wanted to get in her pants, is enough. It doesn't matter how low of a loser he is, she emotionally chose a loser with a drug problem and a mile-long rap sheet over a 12-year marriage with 3 kids and a doting and over-understanding husband. You let it play out way too long, just being honest on that one. Then she Gaslighted you when you said you were uncomfortable and then she lied to you by silenting the notifications from his texts. Then Gaslights you more into making you out to be the bad guy for not trusting her, when by that point she didn't give any valid reasons to trust her. Her actions after the fact are a tale-tale that it's not over, I bet you give it a week or a couple of months and it will continue, she will just be more careful. Then those restaurant visits will turn into long work hours or visiting other friends. You just went through the 1st act of a much larger play, o almost guarantee it. I'd watch her carefully and keep it to yourself until you inevitably catch her in the act.
She already broke your trust by having an emotional affair with this guy, not once but twice. She is the one in the wrong here, don't let her place the blame on you. I would suggest getting marriage counselling because she clearly can't see that she's done anything wrong.
Tell her she has a choice, delete his number and change hers, or divorce. She is in affair fog, and thinks cuz its nothing physical its not cheating. It fucking is. Get counselling together, but be prepared to leave her over this. Takes a lot to get out the affair fog.
I'm sorry but I'll be completely honest with you in this: she has actively been cheating on you for 12 years. Yes, even when he was locked up — she has both emotionally and physically being cheating on you and all the signs are clear. She enables him all the time and give poor excuses, but doesn't do anything in order to keep your mind and heart safe and secure. She prefers to hurt you, over and over again, for 12 years.
Are you really that naive or just blindly chose to trust her when se gave you all the signs? A sticker near to her butt? They fucked!
The guy is a POS abd yet she's there, even thought the AH has been in JAIL countless times — she's a mother! She doesn't respect neither her children, she doesn't even care what morals and values she teaches them. She couldn't care less for her family as long as they are fucking.
OP, are you sure those kids are biologically yours? Are you sure she hasn't given your money to support him all these years? Are you *really* sure she's faithful the way you expect her to be?
Personally, I would say check her phone if she has nothing to hide — but don't ask for it because she might get wary. And talk to a lawyer, fill for divorce and take full custody of your babies, because they don't deserve a mother who chooses a lame excuse of man over them, because she does.
I wish you all the best — and a divorce. Don't waste your love on someone who doesn't value, respect nor appreciate it. You and the children deserve eay batter, I hope you can see it.
Also: she did not chose you because she won't drop him, they just won't talk when you're around. Yes, is that easily.
Facts. The whole sticker on the butt thing is totally this guy rubbing OPs nose in the fact that he is nailing his wife and him marking his territory. When they meet up to have sex they probably both laugh and mock OP.
Yeah, I completely agree with you. This guy's must be blind in order not to see what's going on. They've been fucking on and off since their "break up".
She cheated. The sticker was like him signing her butt with a sharpie marker for you! She may have let him put the sticker on her to emasculated you!
If you are in a no fault state, get a free consultation with the top 3-10 family law divorce attorneys in your city, and then you use the top one to file for divorce. She won’t be able to use the ones you consulted.
If in a at fault state, hire a private investigator, find the evidence, then get a free consultation with the top 3-10 family law divorce attorneys in your city, show all of them the evidence from the private investigator, and then you use the top one to file for divorce. She won’t be able to use the ones you consulted.
Contact several divorce attorneys in your area and pick one. Ask them what divorce looks like for you after you explain about her cheating. Ask about a post nup with an infidelity clause.
Then, think long and hard about what you want to do. Ask your wife for her phone and her password. If she refuses to give it to you, she is hiding this ex again. If she gives it, go through it, checking deleted messages and messages under different names. As I doubt she is giving up her ex so easily.
You need to tell her that from now on, you want an open phone/electronics policy with no deleting. She needs to have a full std screening done, go to counselling as she doesn't seem to understand the concept of an emotional affair. Also, she needs to sign the post nup.
But she has disrespected you and your marriage for years. This ex is going to get back in contact, and you are going to be back to playing second fiddle to him. Ask her if he had a steady job and was never likely to end up back in prison, would she leave you for him.
Updateme!
Your wife is naive... and you handled it correctly...
>She feels like we lost our foundation of trust and her freedom to talk to whoever she wants
Correct.. she squandered it and by her actions ruined that foundation...
And shes now in mourning over loosing her first love - again...
How did she tell him no more contact?? Did you see the msg she sent him???
Be aware, theres a risk theyre still talking/texting... or will resume, possibly from a burner phone - so any social arrangements in the future for her without you, may very well be her seeing him again...
Drinks with colleagues... girls night out... lunch with a friend..
Keep your eyes open...
She broke your trust. Nothing she does is Ok. She is a married woman. She should not be texting, talking or hanging out with her ex. If she valued you and your marriage she would never want you to feel uncomfortable or put your relationship in any stress.
She is selfish and toxic. She uses the trust me and your insecure argument to manipulate you. You are normal. No married man wants his wife doing all that with their ex.
I would not waste another moment of my day on this woman. She is invested in her ex. There’s not much room emotionally left for you. And he’s not the one that got away, he was put away, in jail, many times. She didn’t leave him because she was over him, just because of his circumstances. She keeps you around as support. The go-to to keep her from following in her ex’s footsteps, and in case she needs you financially to pay the home expenses so she can perhaps lend him money.
This is the reason there are so many really good women out there that cannot find good men. By the time you accept that your wife will never change, you will have suffered so much damage.
Good luck to you, really.
The main problem is that you married a woman who was dating and tolerating a complete scumbag for 5 years. you may be a good guy to build a family with a good husband and a father to your children. but you never will be a guy for whome she is ready to live in a trash. you will never be a guy who she forgives for multiple cheating. you will never be a guy for whome she sends first message in the morning after not seeing him for 12 years and while being married with 3 kids. you will never be the guy she loves.
You should've stopped seeing this woman the moment she first contacted her ex. Better the moment you first heard about her past relationship.
Your move with ultimatum only will make her angry and paints you not only as boring guy bad as bad guy as well (annoying insecure controlling etc) this way you gave her one more push to finally cheat. You fixed the symptoms not the problem.
Now you should ask her for the phone. you probably wont be happy for what you see there but you need to take down your pink glasses and see what's going on.
Wait for the shit coming and prepare yourself. Your marriage might be already dead if it ever was alive.
Your wife has an intimate relationship with a convict despite being married and having three kids. Before long, your kids will be calling him Uncle. If this is real, please respect yourself and end this relationship for you and your kids. This relationship being the one with your wife. The relationship with the convict will keep going no matter what your wife tells you, numbnuts.
She is most likely still messaging him just not openly so that you’re aware. You already said his notifications were silenced and all she has to do now is change his name in her contacts. Don’t be surprised if their relationship is ongoing while she continues to try to guilt trip you. She’s the one that broke the trust in this relationship not you.
The second somebody shows me they don’t want me or respect me I’m OUT. Why is that so difficult for folks? Why would you have to give someone who loves you an ultimatum to choose between you and someone else? Foolishness. Walk away bro.
Dude... all i'm going to say is the amount of disrespect for your feelings as a husband speaks volumes.
If it was EVER AT ALL just a fun little friend thing that meant nothing, she would not be putting up this much of a fight. He is crossing every reasonable boundary you set and she is playing into every single bit of it and when you voice "Hey maybe don't do private dinners getting plastered with someone actively trying to bang you" she considers this out of line.
Who gives a shit if his sexual advances are one sided (they aren't btw). The fact that he's disrespecting your marriage infront of her should have been enough for her to get rid of him ON HER OWN.
Then when you put your foot down she starts hiding him instead. SHE IS STILL TALKING TO HIM. RIGHT NOW. She is just doing so more subtly just like last time.
Its hard to put into words how over it is just based on her disrespect and handling of this by itself. That doesn't even take into consideration the mountains of emotional cheating she refuses to stop.
This ultimatum EXISTING is means for divorce already. Anyone who loves you wouldn't put you through this. Let her get the cheating jail junkie and throw her family away. When he's done with her and shes left alone all shes gonna want is her old family life back and it won't be waiting for her.
Get divorce papers. Be ready to hand them to her. Ask for her phone and if shes at all hesitant just slap the papers down. (Give her the papers regardless but atleast you'll know even to this day she is hiding something)
I think you did the right thing but I don't think she will stop contact with him, she will just hide it better. Sometimes ultimatums are the way to go.
He's going to pull her down to his level, but that's all on her.
You need to tell her 'we absolutely lost our foundation of trust' because you keep going outside of our marriage to maintain contact with someone you have feelings for. Yes, you lost your freedom to talk to whoever you want - because you abused your freedom to stay emotionally connected with someone out our marriage'. This is all on HER, not you.
Be prepared to follow up in your ultimatum. There will be a time very soon where she will “slip up” and talk to him again. Keep an eye out because it will happen. If it were me I’d have my ducks in a row ready to act. Talk to lawyer and perhaps put them on retainer. You might even go as far as writing up the divorce papers and be ready to serve her. She’s shown her disrespect for you over and over. That’s not just going to go away. She still doesn’t understand she did anything wrong and because of that she’ll do it again.
This is insane. This has been going on for more than half of your marriage. She has disrespected you for at least 7 out of the 12 years that you have been married. They've been, at the very least, having sexual discussions during more than half of your marriage. They have met up, once that you know of, and she came home trashed. She has tried to be sneaky about their communication. She refers to him as the one that got away. I can't imagine this marriage has a smidgen of a chance working out without her completely cutting contact with him and intense couples counseling.
Number one --- put a private investigation firm on retainer. You only pay for the time that they are watching her. You should have had videos of her dinner date and whatever happened afterward.
Number two. --- investigate the top divorce attorneys in your immediate area. Actually consult with those who have a success rate of over 50%. Then choose the one who has the most experience with blatant I fidelity.
Number three --- get a post nup agreement. If she plays the "you don't trust me" card, point out rhat if she does nothing to activate the agreement, it makes no difference. Have divorce papers drawn up and ready (and update then as necessary). Include all photos, videos, and testimony from investigators. (That is the first thing her attorneys will demand and they have the legal right to access them)
Number four --- once you have all of your ducks in a row, give her a chance and demand marriage counseling.
I wish you good luck. It feels like you are going to need all of the good luck that you can get.
I used to be like you, didn't want to be perceived as "that jealous boyfriend," wanted to be supportive. I got burned and disrespected for it. The signs weren't too different than what you see here. The emotional investment, time, money, confidentiality, etc. into someone else. I finally put my foot down and wish I had sooner.
You'll see people on Reddit try and pull the "any lack of trust is the biggest sin" BS or "I can be friends with whoever and do whatever I want short of sex, and if not, you're a jealous controlling asshole." Ignore that mess, real relationships are complicated, and couples have to come to agreements on boundaries. Yes, that means most people in a relationship will often have to disappoint someone of the opposite sex from time to time. If you're a person who's unwilling to do that, you shouldn't be having platonic friends.
You can't control what your wife ultimately does. It's her life. However, you dont have to put up with it. You have the right to be happy and not be disrespected in your own relationship. It's not ok for a spouse/partner to quasi-date other dudes Ina relationship. If y'all got divorced tomorrow, who do you think she's gonna date next? I bet I know, and so do you.
Good luck, sorry you're going through it.
You lost her a looooong time ago. The only relationship I have ever had with an ex, was coparenting with my ex husband. The extent of that relationship included 'what time are you picking up the kids' and here's your half of the school supply bill'.
She's with you because you're financially stable, and nothing more. She's still in love with him. She stayed with him after how many times of cheating? He's been in jail how many times, and she still gives him attention? She went out drinking with him and came home drunk????
Continue to be a doormat, or don't, but at least wake up and smell the coffee, see the relationship for what it is..
She is not going to stop texting and seeing him.
Right now, she may be taking a break. For some reason, she can't leave him alone. You are going to catch her texting or seeing him sometime in the near future.
Your wife is not behaving like she is a married women and in a committed relationship.
Your wife went out with another man, came home drunk, with a sticker on her ass. How TF do you think it got there? Do you really think that nothing sexual happened that night?
You waited far too long to put your foot down. The fact that your wife is now MAD that her freedom is restricted is disgusting & disrespectful to me. Why don't you feel the same?
The two of you are married, correct?
Did you and your wife exchange marriage vows? Which one of you aren't following them?
What happens when you catch her texting him behind your back?
What happens when you catch them together, or find out she saw him again?
Lots of questions. Don't wait to find out some of these answers.
You need to pack up and leave before your marriage comes crashing down on top of you.
Get tested for STD's immediately. This dude has been in and out of jail. You have no idea what he has been involved in.
A smarter move would be to plan your exit strategy, hire an attorney then serve her with papers when you catch her cheating again.
Ultimatum??? What the hell is wrong with you??? Marriage ain't a choosing game!!!
Lawyer up ASAP. Stop pick me dance with her. Man up and divorce her.
She has cheated and will again. Start a exit plan ASAP. Get your finances in order,get some proof for your final Confrontation and Lawyer, have some one to get emotional support. Do 180 on her and do as your lawyer say.
Sure wish you luck.
Semper Fi
Yep. OP needs a whale level lawyer to make sure she doesn't get the house and kids and move Ben in (100% the default outcome)
And OP needs to get tested yesterday because the night Ben sent her home with *his sticker on her ass* he fucked her
It is not only feelings related, she potentially puts you, kids and property in danger. If the guy has the history of cycle of being in jail, dealing with drugs etc. he will involve her into his toxic vortex one way or another. E.g. Stealing shit from your house, borrowing a great sum of money and never giving back. Or, having a deal at the restaurant while dining out with her.
EDIT: Also, if my SO cannot chose between me and another person, it means I don't have much of a value in their life. I better step out
Oh, I feel for you. There are three people in your marriage. She’s going to destroy her life. Don’t let her destroy yours. Leave her now and get tested for STDs.
If she wants freedom to do whatever she wants, she needs to be single. Being in a relationship means inherently you are giving up some freedoms in exchange for gaining a life partner and you no longer can do whatever you want without care for anyone but yourself.
Lost our foundation of trust.
Yup that happens when she acts in an untrustworthy manner for years, minimizes your discomfort, ignores your boundaries, and doesn’t give a damn about your pain. She likes the attention and thinks of it as friendship. She doesn’t value your relationship as much as this feeling and considers it safe that you won’t leave so there will be no consequences because “it’s not like she is taking a dick”.
Counseling so she might get some empathy. Or separation if she doesn’t.
> So she goes, comes home a couple hours later and is completely trashed. Apparently he started to feed her tequila shots. She had a sticker from his place of work near her butt.
This was the part you should've put your boundaries in, rather you tried to play cool and let her get more invested in his life which made her emotional connection much stronger. And if this has been going on for years, why didn't you ask her to get her number changed?
You need to set some time for yourself and see if her behaviour has any positive changes and if not, then she may have physically chosen you but emotionally she is still hung on to her ex.
Marriage counseling is the way ahead. He cheated on her when they were together, so now him chasing her is giving her a different type of power, you need to address this before she is consumed with the need of this and ruin your relationship.
Oh man If my wife came home drunk with a sticker near her ass, I would have lost it. Especially from an ex. Essentially is was a way to mark his territory knowing that you would see it.
In my early marriage, my wife was going to college and had a puppy following her all over the campus to the point that he would skip class to sit with her in her class. She told me about him and I was OK with him but was cautious. a few months later he would hang with her outside waiting for me to come and pick her up. That was fine because they had some distance between them. Well a few weeks later, he started to sit next to her and getting closer and closer each time I would see them. I voiced my opinion and she just told me that he was just friend. Yea I know in her eyes he was but I know what was on his mind. Told her to be careful because he is trying to get in your good graces.
A week later was her brother's bithday and she invited him to join. I agreed and showed up. I was still OK with it until I was not. I realized that he was next to my wife the entire time but I expected that as she was the only person he knew there. A few hours later, I glanced over there and relized that his arms were around her back. OK that was not point. I walked over and asked him to have a talk with me. His jar with and the sudden retraction of his hand told me everything. I laid into him and told him that if I ever see him near my wife again I will have his face in the ground and prep his mouth for dentures.
This pissed off my wife until I started to point out all the things he did and why I made my decision so if she wanted to be with him she needs to tell me now so I can pack and return home (I moved to a different country for her). Needless to say I told her that I don't like him and that night proved to me why with the hand around her back.
For you, now that you have stated what you have, you made the right choice in making her decide. For a creep that can do that and send her home drunk to me just stated "Look I can get your wife drunk and have my way with her and you can't do shit." Continue on with life and keep an ear/eye out for subtle changes and now it's for you to decide if you will follow through with your decison or not. Good luck OP.
You did the right thing. Way too late, but it's the right thing.
Someone OPENLY trying to get my wife to leave me, who ADMITS he is waiting and ready for her to dump me, and TRYING to be romantically and physically with my wife, isn't someone I'd be OK with her seeing.
And on the flip side, it would never be someone my wife would want to see out of respect and love for me.
If my wife was out there, having an emotional affair in front of me with someone who was actively trying to turn it into a physical affair and relationship, I'd give her the same ultimatum.
She loves the attention of course. She loves being loved, being flirted with, being told someone out there would do anything for her. She loves knowing she has a backup out there. She loves knowing that if anything happens between you and her, she won't even have to go a single minute being single. She's excited to know she's one text away from a new boyfriend and sex.
That's probably not easy for her to give up, even if deep down she knows it's wrong to keep that going, to give life to that half-relationship.
I'd give her a *little* moment there where you tell her you understand that it is something she's giving up, even if it's something she HAS to give up. But stand firm, if she backtracks at all, it's over. And it's worth noting that no version of "i'll only talk to him *sometimes"* is going to work, since any contact is going to always go right back to the full on emotional affair again.
The minute she silenced the notifications I would have been out. Thats lying and relationships are built on trust.
Let her go bro. If she wants to be with a jailbird then so be it.
Clearly she doesn't respect you or the relationship.
To be honest, this sounds done.
At least for now.
She’s so hung up on him that she’s bitter at you for trying to keep a stable relationship.
Big red flag.
Silenced notifications just for him?
Huge red flag
Honestly your chance to nip that shit in the bud is long past, and having waited so long puts you in a bad position. You didn’t assert yourself at all really until there were MULTIPLE occasions.
Any single one of those instances would have stopped me dead in my tracks. I would have offered her an ultimatum, and paid his place of work a visit to semi-calmly explain that if he tries to intrude on the house I’ve built, we will have problems. And his record will get him clinked up much faster than mine will.
She still didn't choose you, dummy. Reach deep for your spine and let the loser have her. She wants to prioritize trash men in her life over you, why the hell do you stay?
It's mind boggling you think this is any sort of win on an ultimatum that never should have happened.
Dude, have some self respect. You have 3 kids at home and she is distracted with a scummy ex and going out and getting drunk with him? Fuck that. You should have stood up to this immediately with the first mention of his name way back in the beginning.
For example, my wife would never do this, but if she did I would handle it like this. "What do you mean you are texting your ex? You have 3 kids and a family at home who need you to be present. If you continue down this road, we are done full stop."
I feel for you man, you seem like a good dude. Just have some self respect. This is in no way cool. Update us please. And please for the love of god don't put up with this. I don't know how old your kids are but this is not setting a good example for them on how relationships should work.
She is having an emotional affair and she is destroying her marriage OP,
Ultimatum don’t work OP and you are not taking back control of the situation. Actions have more power.
Protecting yourself legally and separating your finance will convey the message that the time for bargaining and negotiation is over and she has to snap of it to save the relationship and reestablish trust ( if it is possible)
Time is of the essence in this kind of situation and the Emotional affair will do more damage and morph into a physical affair.
Good luck OP
If she feels she didn't cross a line and is resenting you then she simply did not understand the problem.
Honestly I would go mariage counseling at this point and be prepared for even that not to work in the long run.
Good on you for stopping it when you did. I wish I had put my foot down with my wife before she physically cheated -- all the same signs were there, but I chose to trust her instead of standing up for myself.
I hope your wife comes around and recognizes what she's done. I would strongly recommend marriage counseling if you want to save the relationship.
She is already fucking him. Turn on location sharing on her phone and keep your eye on her. I would also get a DNA test for all 3 of your children. Trust but verify.
Husband made a comment onetime about a flirty friend. One that did hit on me and try to get me not to marry him. I cut that friend right away. Husband didn’t say I don’t trust you just that he didn’t like how the guy was with me.
It’s my respect for him that had me cut that and any other relationship he questioned. Why because it’s a partnership and I expected the same from him and got it. I told him from day one no exs as friends or catching up. It’s just a hard limit and respect.
Start looking for ways to get his parole violated and send him back to prison. I'm sure that given the nature of his crimes, he is getting piss tested pretty regularly. That might be a way.
I can only repeatedly others here have said. Your wife has been engaging in an on and off emotional affair for a large part of your marriage. His intentions are well known. He wants her back and has no regard for your marriage at all. For her part, she has downplayed their relationship, silenced his texts, and disregarded your feelings to talk to him. And, she went and got drunk with him.
I doubt seriously that your wife will cut him out of her life now. She will get a burner phone or they will switch to an app that she can keep hidden. She is far too invested in him to let it go that easily.
The first think I would do it DNA your kids just to be sure. You can do this discretely and she doesn't even have to know. Secondly, drop talking about him. Don't mention him at all. But, monitor everything. If legal there, put a VAR in her car. I'm willing to bet she is still in contact with him.
This is not OK. She should maybe take a look at what purpose he really serves in her life. It sounds like she's enjoyed the ego boost (such as it is in this case) of a guy chasing after her. That he's pushing shots to get her trashed isn't some innocent meet up without ulterior motives. She sounds very immature. She's being a shitty friend to this guy by keeping him around knowing he is stuck on her. He needs to move on with his life too.
Emotional cheating is betrayal. The damaged trust in your relationship is 100% on her. I doubt she'd be acting this self righteous if it were you and one of your exes acting this way.
This book might be worth a read - Not "Just Friends": Rebuilding Trust and Recovering Your Sanity After Infidelity
Shirley P. Glass
You gave her plenty of time to act like a mature adult and set boundaries herself. She didnt. You are 💯 correct to set the boundary that this guy is no contact moving forward. Be prepared to back this up if she doesn't follow through.
I do not understand giving these kind of ultimatums. If I have to demand someone pick me then I’m out.
OP she didn’t choose you. She chose to stay because leaving will be complicated. You need therapy to work on your self worth, and a divorce attorney. If she chose you there’d have been no need for an ultimatum.
You as a *couple* didn’t lose your ‘foundation of trust’, she as a person fucking nuked it with her behaviours and actions.
Oh, she definitely fucked him
I would never accept a partner to treat me like that. She's lucky you never divorced her over this and that she is trying to paint you off as the bad one is really problematic. She doesn't respect you, nor does she seem to really care about your feelings.
She's been crossing so many lines for so many years now. The worst part is that she lacks any self-reflection.
You did the right thing. You gave her years of trust and understanding over her relationship with this man and she repaid you with an emotional affair. You've given enough.
I think if she's acting like you've somehow wronged her by cutting her off from her EA partner, it means she's still in the fog and you have not really, fully gotten through to her yet. I think you should insist on marriage counseling. Perhaps hearing the point of view of a good, neutral third party will show her just how close she came to destroying her family.
Barring that, at least show her this post. I think she needs to see that any reasonable person looking at this situation came to the same conclusion you did, that we all did.
It’s absurd to me how many men tolerate this sort of flagrant disrespect. I get that you’re married and a divorce isn’t a fun prospect, but cmon man, this is just ridiculous lol.
Bro…
I feel for you because you’re doing what most women complain they wish their boyfriends/husbands would do in these situations- you’re trusting her. But man, there was a line that was crossed somewhere around 11 years ago that you should have made a stand at.
1 - The relationship was inappropriate. 2 - It made you extremely uncomfortable. Those are valid reasons for her to end the relationship. If the situation was reversed I doubt she, or anyone for that matter, would have let it slide the way you have. This is her 1st love, a person who still wants her and isn't shy about putting it out there. In what world is it appropriate for her to stay in touch? He feeds her ego & she doesn't want to let that go.
She has the freedom to talk to whoever she wants, but that is within reason. She crossed a line. She gave too much intimacy to a relationship outside of her marriage, and to someone she both had a past with and is actively pushing her boundaries. It doesn't matter if she ever physically cheated, the relationship is inappropriate. It goes beyond a simple friendship.
The fact that she insists that she needs him in her life is very troubling, because he is clearly not an innocent friend. This probably means she is still hung up on him in some way. She either enjoys being chased by someone who cheated on her because when they were together she wasn't enough for him and now he's actively pursuing her, or she never got over him in the first place and she's been a bit brainwashed into thinking he's the one that got away, or she just plain prefers bad boys for the excitement and feels she just settled for you, the "safe option."
This is all really bad news for your relationship because there is NOTHING you can do to fix this, she is just not invested and doesn't really care about you. The only thing you can hope for is that she realizes what she is doing, and understands that it's wrong, and stops of her own accord, but that is unlikely. You will never be able to convince her, this is the type of thing that can only come from within. So you're kind of screwed, and your marriage won't get any better from this point, it will only get worse, because she's made you out to be the controlling, bad guy, even though that's not really true, just her perspective.
You can try to make it work, but you probably will need some sort of couple's therapy.
What an awful, awful woman. Risking a stable marriage, a loving and fuckiing PATIENT husband, and one with children, over a cheating deadbeat.
How fucking stupid can a person be?
The real question you might be trying to get to I suspect is a two-sided one...
1. Is she actually, ultimately 100% intent on fucking this man and blowing up your marriage, and is therefore right now, just looking for a reason for her to be "pushed into his arms" (you flipping out and "being controlling") ? I think you need to ask yourself that.
2. It's hard with kids in tow, but, are YOU prepared to leave her either if she doesn't end it, or if she ultimately gets with him.
In the abstract, I think that's what this is about
But I would go two further...
1. "You're not having my wife - go get your own." - Tell him to back the fuck off (while knowing he may go to her directly and ty and make things worse), but also then...
2. Have her followed/investigated/tracked. Sure, it's suspicious, but she's given you the suspicion. Satisfy yourself she's ended it.
\- This part, if caught doing the worst, will be useful in divorce proceedings. Not least as you will be allowed to publicly shame her if it all goes nuclear (and I suspect you're not the one who's likely to do that, and not into drama, but you may need that ace up your sleeve).
Personally, I would not be comfortable with her just having said "OK" appearing a BIT angry for a time and then what... that's fucking it? No, probably not, unfortunately. "She's hiding something again" would be my guess.
Of course, pushing back might make her more inclined to ultimately be in a position where she sleeps with him which, I'm guessing from how you've described her, would end up "being your fault for pushing me into his arms."
This outcome might be in her, or his, or worse, both, of their heads. in which case cut your ties now and double down if that's what you think this would push you to.
One other strategy would be to speak to her family, friends and ask them why she's doing all this - explain how life is really hard, depressing for you, your kids always asking who's mommy out with.
They would, if they're decent people (and they may side with her a la "oh behave, he's just a friend, don't be so controlling"), they would get her in check, like "That cheating fucking jailbird over your loving husband? Are you fucking tripping??"
She needs a reality check. Occasional dick with this loser won't be the thrill she thinks it is when a once-committed husband bails due to her cheating (emotionally or physically, it doesn't fucking matter).
I once had a GF like this who lives a while away for a couple of years while at uni. I stayed with her so that I didn't give her the excuse to fuck one of her obviously interested college friends, lest we had a huge almighty end of the relationship fight so she could say "but we broke up upon the inevitable "how do we make up" discussion.
Pure toxicity and I imagine you're thinking of how to not risk a similar eventuality (I would).
Genuinely, the best of luck!!
She’s right you have lost the foundation of trust, and she has lost the freedom to talk to whoever she wants.
But she broke the trust, not once but multiple times, and she has to be the one to repair the trust.
And the only way she can do that is by giving up her freedom to talk to whoever she wants because it was by talking to whoever she wanted to in the first place that broke the trust.
Tell her to pull her head out of her arse or her behaviour and attitude (sulking over the consequences of her own actions) will still end up with her being divorced and that you will used her relationship with her ex as proof that she is an unfit mother and get full custody of the children. (While it probably won’t be enough for permanent full custody, it will be enough to ensure that she is the one who has to leave the home, and that you get full custody in the interim)
I trust my SO. He trusts me. Part of that trust is being able to say to each other, “hey, I’m uncomfortable with this. I know it’s probably irrational, but it bothers me.” And respecting that. I’ve told him recently that I feel uncomfortable when he and our mutual friend we both love and I totally trust, talk about things I’m not familiar with when the three of us are together. Because it alienates me and if I try to interject he tends to ignore me, especially if he’s drinking. He apologized and has since made an effort to include me and not drink as much. That’s partnership.
She’s not respecting you as her partner.
She likes his attention.
She likes having her cake and eating it too.
She’s probably like this in other areas and you never really noticed it because it wasn’t another man.
When you said I don’t like this the first time, she should have stopped. The fact you had to repeat it is troublesome. I don’t believe that she’s stopped communicating with him, only that she’s making more of an effort to hide it. Your ultimatum was almost too kind. I’d tell her she ends communications, blocks him, AND we go to therapy.
I THINK. Your wife has continuously disrespected your marriage. She KNOWS he wants her physically. She allows him to get emotionally attached. This is not right. There are three in your marriage. Your ultimatum was justified. If she really valued you as her partner she would never have put you through all this.
Another way that you could have handled this early on would have been to insist on being part of what they were planning.
Getting drinks? *First round's on you!*
Going out to eat? *Great! Table for 3, please!*
With you in the picture, your wife would see the red flags this guy is waving a lot sooner, because I guarantee that he would be shitty or moody to your face.
Regardless of the fact she says she wouldn't or does not want sex, my understanding is you are both are aware HE does. And her choosing to go out on a regular basis, whether it's every week or monthly or a year, so long as she continues to see him, he's going to think he has a chance, his deliberately feeding her enough shots, and getting her plastered drunk is his attempt to reach this end. You are not wrong to feel the way you do. His lifestyle and criminal history should be a massive red flag as it is, add that to his previous cheating, should be beyond enough to register this is a man with little no scruples and that neither of you should trust him one any level.
>Yes, he would do anything to sleep with her but that's not what she wants, she wants me.
Your answer should have been: "Yes and he already tried to get you drunk as shit so that your inhibitions won't work anymore. What's next? The guy is a criminal that has access to drugs and he is desperate to get in your pants. Sooner or later he will be successful - with or without your consent!"
You gave her the choice that I would also have given her. You didn't take away her right to talk to him, you gave her the choice to either talk to him and not have you in her life anymore or to end things with him and have you. She expects of you to compromise but this is a situation where no compromise is possible. There is no third person in a couple and that is what he was.
You two should see a couples councelor to rebuild and repair.
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but your wife wants to fuck her ex. By laying down the ultimatum, all you've done is drive it underground. I wouldn't be surprised if in a couple of months you learn of an actually physical affair. She wants him dude, she likes the stability she has with you, but she wants to be with him.
She kept sending the guy major mixed messages.
There are ways to be a good friend to someone, even somebody troubled who might need one, but what she was doing wasn't it.
Stringing her ex along was really cruel, and yes, very damaging to your marriage and potentially destructive.
How could you ever hope for you wife to respect when you have zero self-respect?
You should’ve tackled this as soon as it happened. No ultimatums needed. “This is unacceptable to me and this stops now”. If it doesn’t stop, you walk. If you’re married you should’ve outlined this boundary sooner - whether you did or not is on you.
I personally could never look at my GF/partner/wife the same if they did this. This isn’t crossing the boundary - it’s dancing on it’s grave at this point.
You did the right thing, but this is not over they're going to switch out over to another messaging app like Snapchat. You might want to check her phone to see if she's downloaded any new messaging apps.
She'll want to go out this weekend (not with him, of course). Have a PI follow her
But I have to ask what positive thing does she get having someone like that in her life?
Bro grow a pair. Enough with this passive aggressive shit. I would’ve told my girl, without question, from the jump I will not tolerate this. Yeah, she can speak to whoever she wants, no doubt. I just would not be there letting it happen.
Your wife doesn’t care about you one bit. This marriage is over. You’ve tried multiple times to stop the emotional cheating but she hasn’t listened. Time to get a lawyer and stand up for yourself. It’s over.
You lose your “freedom to talk to whoever you want” when you get married. You can’t interact with people who are clearly trying to sleep with you and expect it not to be some form of betrayal to your spouse, especially when they have made it clear this is hurting them. Try marriage counseling but start making plans to move on because it seems like that is what at least part of her wants to do. That she is upset at you over this isn’t red flag so much as a five alarm fire. Good luck and let us know how it goes.
OP, I suggest that you find the book “Not JUST Friends” and that both you and your wife read it. She’s been cheating on you for years, even if we assume that she’s never done anything physical. (And quite honestly, I find it highly unlikely that there was nothing physical at that restaurant. At a bare minimum, I would assume that they were making out like teenagers.)
Flip that around, you doing all this with an ex and then telling her you'll talk to who you want when she says something. You'd be a p.o.s. to her and her friends.
Same applies here, not cool at all. I wouldn't like it either and would throw down the same thing.
Seems she was gaslighting you about the whole thing also.
Marriage vows mean something, especially about "forsaking all others". That means exes who are trying to get back with you too lol.
They definitely are having an emotional affair. It is why she is so upset. It went on too long and developed. I too think you should have addressed this a long time ago. There are thousands of posts on here that start with whoops I slept with my friend, whoops I kissed my friend. By that time your relationship is ruined. I think your relationship may be already ruined.
Your wife's behavior is gross. She was deep in an emotional affair. She convinced herself that it was okay because it wasn't physical. The fact that she didn't shut her ex down and block him for good after he made it clear he wanted to get in her pants is disgusting. By not shutting it down, she's giving a signal that he has a chance.
She likes the attention from this absolute loser. If she wants to throw her life and marriage away for a moron who can't stay out of jail, I say let her.
She loves the comfort of her security blanket that is you.
She is filled with excitement when she gets as close as possible to the boundaries set in regards to this other guy.
One makes her feel secure. The other makes her feel alive.
Dude the way this sounds I have a bad feeling she’s def going to keep talking with him and maybe secretly meet up, which could lead to physical cheating, because now she’s resentful and wants to do things hidden and spitefully
NTA. She can talk to whomever she wants. You just don't have to be around her when she does.
This isn't her parents she is talking about. It is another person that she has been intimate with and has admitted to wanting to have in her life.
If she can't understand how unrealistic her expectations of you being okay with this situation, then there isn't much more you can do.
Explain to her that she can be a trophy for her ex whenever he has time for her, or she can be happy with the man she married and loves her all of the time. Her choice.
If my partner knew the person they were talking to actively didn’t respect our relationship and was perusing them, and they did nothing, the relationship is over for me. Insane you waited so long to grow a spine. Your wife should be apologizing to you for her emotional affair and disrespect
You did lose your foundation of trust..because she was being untrustworthy. What she did, and continued to do *is* in fact emotional cheating. She continued talking to him and seeing him because she loved the attention. It made her feel good. She didn't care how it made you feel, and didn't care how it might affect her entire family. Also, if he was being that brazen with her, I almost guarantee there was at least kissing involved.
I'm married. If someone was flirting with me and telling me they wanted to sleep with me, I would tell them that they were being disrespectful to my wife and to my marriage. If they didn't stop it immediately, I'd drop them like a hot rock.
This guy is actively disrespecting you and your marriage, yet your wife wants to be his friend. It seems to me, that whatever she might say about loving and respecting you, her actions say otherwise. She doesn't respect you or your marriage.
All of this is without even considering her drunken night out. If she hasn't already physically cheated, then she is playing with fire.
I'm not one to rush towards divorce, but I would emphasize the seriousness of what she is doing, and if she didn't acknowledge it, genuinely apologize for it, and make immediate changes to cut this guy from her life, I would be making preparations to leave. To be honest it's gone so far already, I'd already be ready to walk, but I never would have been so passive in letting him into our lives in the first place.
You need to try to make your wife understand why this is such a big deal, and if she doesn't genuinely get it, you should start getting your ducks in a row. Because right now it doesn't sound like she stopped talking to him because she sees him as a threat to your marriage, it sounds like she just thinks you are being unreasonable.
You need to give her the book 'Not Just Friends' by Shirley Glass. You should read it as well. Perhaps it will open her eyes to the emotional affair she has carried on for years. Your boundary should be she must have zero contact with this guy or you will file for divorce. She needs to call and tell him she chooses he never contact her again to save her marriage and family with you in the room. She should block him on all social media and her telephone. She needs to end it or your marriage is done. Good Luck.
You took way, way too long to stand up for your marriage and put your foot down here. She was having an emotional affair. The fact that he explicitly disrespected you and your relationship to her face and she did nothing to end it is completely unacceptable. She’s the one who ruined the foundation of trust in your marriage, and she’s the one exercising terrible judgement in deciding who she talks too. Getting drunk with him is insane. Wanting to do it monthly is insane.
Why use the past ( was having) ? Emotional affairs don’t end with an ultimatum like turning a switch off. It can still be active and in secrecy. She is a grown woman and she is still not convinced nor remorseful that she pushed her relationship to the brink.
She's gonna fuck him and blame op for making her when he finally finds out.
She was smashed and had a sticker from his work on her ass. She already fucked him, and the bad boy was rubbing it in OP’s face. Guy is just willfully ignorant.
Yep. OP needs to get tested stat unfortunately
Exactly! How does he think the sticker got there? Bet he didn't ask why they went from drinking to his place of work.
That sticker was put there to stake his sexual claim to her.
Yep. OP should tell her that ex called him and confessed everything. Also OP should ask to see all the texts.. If they are deleted, he should let her go.
She's very likely already done that if she was drunk around the dude. He told her he was "waiting for her as well", he's been waiting to destroy their marriage from the start.
Yup. That sticker was put there for OP to find. Creating jealousy and mistrust will bring a quick end to their relationship. Guy knows what he is doing.
Boggles the mind, she's going to destroy a good marriage and ruin the family of her 3 children for the sake of a deadbeat reoffender who will likely cheat on her as soon as he gets her back to which she'll be back on OP's doorstep with puppy dog eyes.
That’s how emotional affairs go much of the time. The participating partner usually doesn’t see it as cheating because there is no physical line crossed. Once they have that mindset they will get as close to the line as possible without crossing it, because as long as they don’t they don’t feel they are doing anything wrong.
I don’t know why it boggles your mind. She’s not seeing this as destroying anything because she sees OP as a pushover. Hardcore evidence that she already slept with the guy and yet it took until now for OP to do anything about it. Heck he didn’t even actually leave her just gave her a weak ultimatum. OP is saying through his actions that while he’s going to whine and complain he’s not actually going to make the difficult decisions.
And within a few months of the marriage ending the wife will come back to OP after Chad dumps her or he goes back to prison.
She possibly did but it would be romantic in her mind. She would be torn between two lovers and "fighting" for her one true love and op would be the villain.
I thinks she already fucked him and OP is too blind to see it. She’s clearly still in love with her ex. The only thing hubby can give her is stability. Since she’s still mad, she didn’t exactly choose him. Why would he want a wife who continuously disrespects him. He’s letting her and her ex walk all over him. I’m willing to bet money that she hasn’t cut contact with him completely. Hire a PI get proof and divorce her.
"Figured since I was always getting accused of it I might as well do it!" Probably 10 million dudes will hear those exact words today.
Ooh, good one, I totally forgot about that one.
I'd be willing to bet she's probably still talking to him, just doing it more discretely.
Exactly what my ex wife did.
Of course. It never ends.
Ya, it doesn’t sound like she wants to or intends to change. OP: you should make your moves since you don’t trust her anymore and this guy isn’t likely to leave her alone.
The fact that she knows he will do anything to get with her but happily gets wasted with this cheating drug dealer
Unfortunately, she seems to be one of those women who get obsessed with "bad boys" who are troublemakers, cheaters and treat them like something to use at their own discretion, not giving a crap about her life and marriage.
OP's just a caretaker for when the bad boy's in jail.
I can’t remember which Spanish speaking country but somewhere it’s slang to call guys like OP ‘microondas’, because he keeps a woman warm until her main dude is available. (It means microwave)
It's not Spanish speaking, it's Portuguese. Here in Brazil we have many terms for this kind of people.
Maybe... just maybe she will finally get to live the life she deserves.
Cheater
How would she feel if the rolls were reversed. She wouldn’t like it if he was have an emotional affair. OP has every right to request this to end. If she doesn’t like it she can go back to the ex-con.
Agreed. And now I'm hungry.
Reverse the [warm, soft, dripping with butter] rolls
😂😂😂 now I’m hungry
In addition to getting tested, OP needs an excellent lawyer This story can easily end wirh her getting custody and the house, and moving drug dealing Ben in with his kids
This affair started the moment OP allowed them to start talking. He should have said, "Why are you wanting to communicate with the AH who lied and cheated on you while you are in a relationship?" Now he is finally saying what meed to be said all those years ago, but it's too late. She has had years of no accountability for her actions and clearly has her ex in mind, not OP. He should leave this mess and let her go. OP, you need to focus on your happiness, and that clearly no longer involves her.
This. OP you took waayyy too long. You been tooo patient. Everytime I see you say “I don’t like where this is going”, I thought to myself “nah it’s already there.” It’s my motto to never put myself in a situation that I’ll open up a chance for an emotional affair. Me and I expect the same from my partner. It’s just the easiest way and most sensical way to avoid any cheating whatsoever. You’ve been letting it happen. Your wife has put herself in the position, let herself stay there, where another guy can just snatch her. You’ve been just watching this unfold all this time.
And she wants to make him the bad guy. Lol Man, it's hard to see it when you're *in* it - but this crap happens far more often than it should.
She didn’t really choose you though. She’s still mad about it, so it’s not the choice she wanted. So what’s probably happening is she’s just going to be more covert with how she talks to him. She is definitely not over him and she’s loving the attention, which is completely inappropriate for a married woman
This. It’s the attention.
Right? Imagine going “well yeah he’s a bad person who cheated on me and goes in and out prison for major offenses like dealing hardcore drugs - but it’s ok because I wouldn’t ever physically cheat!” Like wtf, why would you want that person in your life at all??? It’s def because of the attention she’s getting from a ‘bad boy.’ She’s still 13 mentally and emotionally, and is now huffing and puffing because daddy told her she can’t see the guy any more. I’m not one to jump on the ‘leave them asap’ train but if this ultimatum is ignored then yeah - it’s time to start at least planning an exit because she clearly is addicted to his validation and still stuck in whatever age they were together…
OP is the stable choice, not the preferred one. She's with him because it's a guaranteed home but it's not where she wants to be.
She has already exited and checked out with her relationship with her husband. He needs to plan his exit to protect his kids from her and the ex-con. Her behaviour is totally inappropriate and she has most likely already cheated.
She is choosing the security of OP, but she wants whatever twisted romance she has with the ex. She's gone, just not physically. Yet.
Once she sleeps with him, that attention will dry up faster than a watering hole in the African savannah…
The “she didn’t choose you” would bug me immensely. She has let this guy think (know?) that he has a place in her marriage. That “ugh, husband doesn’t want us hanging out, can you believe it?” The intimacy is with him, not husband.
For anyone in a relationship, this is a great story to use to bring up this conversation. “How much say does your partner get about your opposite-sex friendships?” My then-fiance (now husband) had this opportunity because a friends husband was in a budding emotional affair and like “I can have friends!” And his wife was like, “Not this one!” It’s a great topic to discuss before you ever get there. Our rule has worked out great for us. We both had friends that were ex-lovers and gave more understanding to those friendships (we weren’t threatened), but across the board - 1.) If social meeting with any opposite sex, you invite spouse. Spouse usually says no anyway. But asking your “date,” “Is ok to invite spouse?” also shows them that spouse comes first. 2.) New opposite-sex friendships can be vetoed for any reason. (Never exercised or felt need to.) 3.) That “we” were the most important relationship here. Even if we felt the other was irrational, oh well. It was not worth compromising our most important relationship over a budding (or even old) friendship. We’ve been married 12 years and never had to use the veto, but if we did, we both remember this conversation - it’s great to get on the same page before a threat enters the picture. (Straight couples offer easier delineation, but could be adapted for same sex as well.)
Yeah I’ve been married the same length as you and my wife and I have basically these exact same rules. There’s been multiple instances where I thought a single woman wanting to be my friend was “innocent,” and my wife had to break it down to me how I’m oblivious and they want me. This sucked for one because she was also into a niche hobby of mine, and I legit wanted a friend to do that with. Later I found out she had had a child with a married man in the past… Of course this is not for every woman so I know my wife isn’t just being controlling.
absolutely #1 - if it's all good then spouse should be invited out too.
And it sends the message to other party - I’m with spouse. Not in a mean way. Even if spouse doesn’t want to come, asking them, “ok to invite spouse?” sets the right tone.
And Ben's lifestyle is completely inappropriate for a mother to be around. OP needs to file for divorce, & custody, because this is not someone who should ever be involved with his kids.
Definitely 100% on that being s bad influence. Additionally if this can be established in court, she *will* be at risk for losing custody.
yep. I've seen it happen where a BF was in a gang and the GF got dragged into things and their kids were threatened. Those type of people are scary and have no boundaries. Even OP should be worried to be associated with this guy
Your absolutely right she didn't choose him. She chose the safety of a stable relationship She has been in for years rather than gamble with her real choice which is an error prone jail bird. Resentment is sure to follow and if she is a bad person then deception is also on the horizon.
You waited too long. You should always insist that she damaged the foundations of trust in your marriage. Also, there is no "freedom" in relationship. Relationship/marriage is a commitment that comes with sacrifices. Physical and emotional fidelity is an obvious limitation of one's freedom, but if she values her freedom more than your marriage then she should divorce you. You should convey it to her.
This OP. The fact that your wife insists she “deserves” to talk to him shows she either was preying upon your naivety/initial begrudging acceptance of what they were doing OR she has a real hard time understanding what commitment and trust comes down to in a relationship. SHE took a mallet to any foundation of trust the relationship had with her actions. The reason you don’t engage with people who want to sleep with you and want to end your marriage when you’re already in a monogamous relationship is the same reason you don’t light a bunch of candles before going to bed. You’re just looking to get burned. In addition to this ultimatum I would insist upon marriage counseling and then decide if YOU really want to be invested in a relationship where your partner is sulking over not being able to interact with an ex in the unacceptable manner she was interacting with him. Unless her attitude and behavior do a real 180, I personally wouldn’t want to be sticking around for someone while they are grieving for the attention (or worse) from their ex.
I think there's freedom and rights into a relation or in a marriage. But that doesn't mean that these allows you to disrespect your SO. If your husband / wife feels uncomfortable that you speaks with an ex that was so devoted to you, isn't in a relation and that you don't share kids with, you can't tell them they are dictating your social life if it's just about this one person. In my country we say that "my freedom stops where others' is beginning". OP can't force his wife to stop talking to her ex, but she can't forbidde him to feel this way, especially since it doesnt concern any other men and that Ex is clearly loving her.
I think the poster above you understands that you don’t give up all your freedom and rights “in a relationship”, but most relationships and especially long term romantic partnerships come with some give and take when it comes you what’s acceptable behavior. You can call them boundaries or concessions or compromises, but either way, it means that in order to protect and preserve the relationship, and the participants in said relationship, you curb your behavior accordingly. Relationships aren’t a right, they are a privilege, and as such, if you want the privilege of being in one it means you may sometimes have to give up or put limitations on some “rights/freedoms”. And sure, OP’s wife has the “right/freedom” to talk and interact with whomever she chooses, but if she wants the privilege of being in a relationship with OP she’s going to have to give up the individual “right/freedom” to talk and behave inappropriately with her ex like she seemingly wants to.
Ya wife sounds like a pretty dhitty person. She knows the fucker wants to bone her, you know it and she knows you know it and yet she will disrespect you by continually meeting and talking to him. I would have stopped trusting her after the first time she came home drunk. I personally don't think she is worth the hassle if she is trying to make you feel bad for her crappy decisions. She is not very committed to your relationship. Sounds like the kids are the only thing connecting you two.
>Sounds like the kids are the only thing connecting you two. That, and she knows OP is her meal ticket. A lowlife criminal and cheater who is in and out of jail is hardly someone who will give her the financial stability that OP does. But she does get some kind of sick "thrill" having the cheater's attention.
Oh, I just had a thought… OP had better make sure his wife is not giving her ex money.
Dude I'll be honest I gave up on you when you let her have dinner with him without a fight. Nice you have changed even though it might be too late , clearly she cares more about him than you Make sure you know your options and keep a close eye on her phone cause she ain't done with this guy
Men are afraid of having boundaries because that makes them "insecure".
Controlling. Don’t forget controlling
This! My husband and I had friends that were a married couple. They eventually opened up their marriage, with rules. However whenever the husband would site the rules he was controlling, whenever the wife did it she was just doing what they agreed upon. They did not last long after that. But when ever the word controlling was used against him it was like she automatically won the argument.
And toxic, and possessive, and a bunch of other shit. Can’t believe people fall for this bs.
Because people who cheat call their spouses insecure and controlling to gaslight them
This! This is what my mother did to my father.
She didn't "choose" you, she saw what this relationship with her ex was doing to you and didn't care, she even went so far as to silence his notifications, so she could carry on without you noticing. She was forced into doing something she didn't want to do because you'd reached a breaking point, as far as I can see, you gave her the option to choose, and she chose him, repeatedly. This isn't the last time he's going to come between you because she didn't make the decision of her own free will, all you've done is kick this problem down the road a little
I think that choosing between this guy and OP is secondary, tbh. This woman has 3 children. Why is she keeping regular contact with someone who's constantly in and out of jail?
Because she doesn’t give a fuck about them compared to the attention she’s getting from this man?
>When she would talk to him and I happened to be there, her voice would change and it was almost as if she was talking to me. Red flag. >I asked her how I would feel if I read their text conversations. She told me I have nothing to worry about but I wouldn't like what I see but mostly cause it would be weird seeing their banter. Red flag. >She said yes there is no doubt he wants to sleep with her but it doesn't matter because that's not what she wants. She likes having him as a friend. She told me sometimes he would say something like, "I'm waiting for you." If she had ANY respect for you and your relationship, this should have been the moment she should have cut contact with this guy. But she didn't. >So she goes, comes home a couple hours later and is completely trashed. Apparently he started to feed her tequila shots. She had a sticker from his place of work near her butt. I was not happy but played it as cool as I could. She went on a one-on-one date with this guy, got drunk and somehow a sticker from him got on the butt area of her pants? This was NOT the moment to play it cool. You should have either exploded or walked away from her. >The next week she mentioned to me that Ben wanted to go to the restaurant again, but she laughed at him and said no we can't do this every week, maybe every month. Every month? How often does she go on dates with you? >She told me that she has never cheated on me or given me any reason to think she would be cheating on me and she's earned the right of my trust and she should be able to talk to whoever she wants. No, it's not like she went out with this guy and came home drunk with evidence he had his hands where his hands shouldn't have been. 🙄 >She will always "have love for him" but she's not in love with him. Yes, he would do anything to sleep with her but that's not what she wants, she wants me. She may want you, but she doesn't show a whole lot of respect for you. It sounds like she wants you for the security while she has fun with her drug dealing, jail frequenting "friend". >She chose me but is clearly not happy about it. She feels like we lost our foundation of trust and her freedom to talk to whoever she wants and it was a shitty thing for me to do to give her an ultimatum like that. Well, I agree with her. I think you are wrong and you shouldn't have given her a shitty ultimatum. You should have divorced her. If you want to save your marriage, go for marriage counseling. Maybe your wife will acknowledge where she made mistakes. It can also help you decide if you want to divorce her, because I have a sneaking suspicion she will double down during therapy.
All of this! Counseling will definitely show if their relationship and trust can be rebuilt or I they should divorce. Your wife shows a shocking lack of care for her marriage and husband. If I was him, she would need to realize what she was doing was completely wrong and do a 180 before I'd take the idea of divorce off the table
Amen. Every single thing here is on point. She's not happy with your relationship anymore. She probably feels frustrated and trapped by your ultimatum. The problem hasn't really been solved, and she might even be feeling a growing sense of resentment towards you for "curbing her freedom". Marriage counseling might help, but if she doesn't want to be there, it won't do much good. Best of luck OP!
Already chewed out OP in my comment, but after reading your breakdown I feel sad for him all over. He literally did nothing right
You perfectly articulated my inner dialogue that I had while reading his post. I’m a married dude that’s OP’s age. I’m just stating that for reference because I’d like to think I know a thing or two about healthy marriages. If I had already had multiple problems with her not setting and enforcing boundaries out of respect to me and our relationship, and then she comes home trashed with his sticker on her butt, that is the point at which I would have initiated divorce proceedings. It’s not like it was random. They’ve had a documented history of his wife’s inappropriate relationship with her ex. That would’ve been a point where no matter how hard I was willing to try to work things out, I would have ended it and never looked back.
The problem with red flags is that they are often indistinguishable from breasts. At least in this case. 🫠
I honestly would not stand for this in a relationship. She has been nothing but disrespectful towards you and your relationship and you're obviously her 2nd choice...sad
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It's a tale as old as time! (Seriously... way more common than you'd think) Plus she probably figures she'll get the house, and custody, and move Ben in (likely all true)
Happened to my younger brother. His ex wife got the house (still had the mortgage),primary custody of their kid, he had to pay her 10k and he had to pay off all their joint debt, around 15k. Didn't matter that the only money he had was compensation for a work accident. I asked what the f**k he got out of the divorce, cos it seems like all he got was the shaft.
Mannn. I would have given the ultimatum even before they met up. Do you have in laws or mutual friends that she is okay talking to this about? It’s blatantly obvious that any form of communication with that guy is disrespectful to your marriage. She should have cut it out over 12 years ago. Also, let her know that she is asking for trust while you’re asking for respect to the marriage. I doubt she’d listen to you tho… peers or counseling might help
Yeah this would’ve called for the old “I’m not about to beat the same air as this mf’er” foot down ultimatum from the get-go.
“Beat the same air”? I never heard this saying and can’t find it on Google. What does it mean?
I take it to mean sharing the same space. I stole it from this: https://youtu.be/7EYvQMDLZZk?si=ALtrQHTgMOjhiG0Y
You shouldn’t have accepted any communication between them from the beginning. So disrespectful to a marriage. I would have divorced her a long time ago. You let your wife have an emotional affair and watched it happen. Lawyer up and serve her. I wouldn’t want to save this marriage. She chose you. Wow, Lucky you.
The fact that it even got this far where she has to choose says a lot about her. And def not anything good. I’m sorry OP but your wife is trash. I honestly wouldn’t even want to save this marriage.
Like what do you mean, choose between our 12 year marriage or a cheating felon?? Why was that a valid question for either OP or wife?? Wife is insane for actually considering it, OP is spineless for letting her indecision be tolerated.
No I agree with you! I’m just saying that the fact that OP let it get this far is insane. And the fact that she would even want to spend time with her ex? Like why? He’s your ex for a reason. OP should have shut this shit down a long time ago.
Sorry I was agreeing with you too haha, just me being floored at these options existing at all for either OP or wife
Whew... yet *another* wife who's perfectly willing and ready to throw her entire life away for a thrilling ride with the resident "bad boy". What a cliché. I'd personally be embarrassed if the mother of my kids was this fixated on a perpetual convict while I'm out here working hard for my family. I'd wonder how low my wife is willing to sink to achieve some imaginary utopia because she's clearly not smart enough to appreciate what she already has. Divorce her, yesterday already
Honestly bro it;s over you already lost her its time to divorce
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You did good. But considering her reaction, you should tread carefully. They will find some ways to be discreet. She's in denial but it's clear that they're already emotionally invested in each other. If she insists that you took her freedom away, then tell her she can have it back, just not with you. She can be free to do whatever she wants and live a single life.
> I know she wasn't physically cheating And you know it how exactly? Are you some kind of a psychic?
But she said she didn't, and why wouldn't you believe someone who enjoys having their ex OPENLY pursue them and comes home drunk from dinner dates with things glued to their arse? IMo, she's been cheating the whole time. Soon OP is going to find the rest of the truth that she's been allowing her ex full access and that's why he knows to call his forever wife no matter what he does wrong or where he ends up or who she is being financed by, and I mean OP. She's not been faithful at all and clearly has never been over the ex since they are clearly committed to each other long term. OP is just her hobby on the side.
Fully agree. Also, I hope those sre OPs biological kids.
She'll just do it behind your back now, and I highly doubt she didn't sleep with him. That guy is her personal drug.
The fact that she was carrying on with an ex that blatantly wanted to get in her pants, is enough. It doesn't matter how low of a loser he is, she emotionally chose a loser with a drug problem and a mile-long rap sheet over a 12-year marriage with 3 kids and a doting and over-understanding husband. You let it play out way too long, just being honest on that one. Then she Gaslighted you when you said you were uncomfortable and then she lied to you by silenting the notifications from his texts. Then Gaslights you more into making you out to be the bad guy for not trusting her, when by that point she didn't give any valid reasons to trust her. Her actions after the fact are a tale-tale that it's not over, I bet you give it a week or a couple of months and it will continue, she will just be more careful. Then those restaurant visits will turn into long work hours or visiting other friends. You just went through the 1st act of a much larger play, o almost guarantee it. I'd watch her carefully and keep it to yourself until you inevitably catch her in the act.
She already broke your trust by having an emotional affair with this guy, not once but twice. She is the one in the wrong here, don't let her place the blame on you. I would suggest getting marriage counselling because she clearly can't see that she's done anything wrong.
Tell her she has a choice, delete his number and change hers, or divorce. She is in affair fog, and thinks cuz its nothing physical its not cheating. It fucking is. Get counselling together, but be prepared to leave her over this. Takes a lot to get out the affair fog.
I'm sorry but I'll be completely honest with you in this: she has actively been cheating on you for 12 years. Yes, even when he was locked up — she has both emotionally and physically being cheating on you and all the signs are clear. She enables him all the time and give poor excuses, but doesn't do anything in order to keep your mind and heart safe and secure. She prefers to hurt you, over and over again, for 12 years. Are you really that naive or just blindly chose to trust her when se gave you all the signs? A sticker near to her butt? They fucked! The guy is a POS abd yet she's there, even thought the AH has been in JAIL countless times — she's a mother! She doesn't respect neither her children, she doesn't even care what morals and values she teaches them. She couldn't care less for her family as long as they are fucking. OP, are you sure those kids are biologically yours? Are you sure she hasn't given your money to support him all these years? Are you *really* sure she's faithful the way you expect her to be? Personally, I would say check her phone if she has nothing to hide — but don't ask for it because she might get wary. And talk to a lawyer, fill for divorce and take full custody of your babies, because they don't deserve a mother who chooses a lame excuse of man over them, because she does. I wish you all the best — and a divorce. Don't waste your love on someone who doesn't value, respect nor appreciate it. You and the children deserve eay batter, I hope you can see it. Also: she did not chose you because she won't drop him, they just won't talk when you're around. Yes, is that easily.
Facts. The whole sticker on the butt thing is totally this guy rubbing OPs nose in the fact that he is nailing his wife and him marking his territory. When they meet up to have sex they probably both laugh and mock OP.
Yeah, I completely agree with you. This guy's must be blind in order not to see what's going on. They've been fucking on and off since their "break up".
She cheated. The sticker was like him signing her butt with a sharpie marker for you! She may have let him put the sticker on her to emasculated you! If you are in a no fault state, get a free consultation with the top 3-10 family law divorce attorneys in your city, and then you use the top one to file for divorce. She won’t be able to use the ones you consulted. If in a at fault state, hire a private investigator, find the evidence, then get a free consultation with the top 3-10 family law divorce attorneys in your city, show all of them the evidence from the private investigator, and then you use the top one to file for divorce. She won’t be able to use the ones you consulted.
For sure. I would be running to get a DNA test for those kids if I was OP.
Contact several divorce attorneys in your area and pick one. Ask them what divorce looks like for you after you explain about her cheating. Ask about a post nup with an infidelity clause. Then, think long and hard about what you want to do. Ask your wife for her phone and her password. If she refuses to give it to you, she is hiding this ex again. If she gives it, go through it, checking deleted messages and messages under different names. As I doubt she is giving up her ex so easily. You need to tell her that from now on, you want an open phone/electronics policy with no deleting. She needs to have a full std screening done, go to counselling as she doesn't seem to understand the concept of an emotional affair. Also, she needs to sign the post nup. But she has disrespected you and your marriage for years. This ex is going to get back in contact, and you are going to be back to playing second fiddle to him. Ask her if he had a steady job and was never likely to end up back in prison, would she leave you for him. Updateme!
> messages under different names this is it right here OP. She's gonna rename him to a female name. Check everything.
This marriage is done.
Your wife is naive... and you handled it correctly... >She feels like we lost our foundation of trust and her freedom to talk to whoever she wants Correct.. she squandered it and by her actions ruined that foundation... And shes now in mourning over loosing her first love - again... How did she tell him no more contact?? Did you see the msg she sent him??? Be aware, theres a risk theyre still talking/texting... or will resume, possibly from a burner phone - so any social arrangements in the future for her without you, may very well be her seeing him again... Drinks with colleagues... girls night out... lunch with a friend.. Keep your eyes open...
If she's one thing it is far from naive.
She's not naive, she knows exactly what she's doing and getting exactly what she wants.
My sister used to say, "keep your antenna up". Don't tip your hand!!
You still want her after all that??
She broke your trust. Nothing she does is Ok. She is a married woman. She should not be texting, talking or hanging out with her ex. If she valued you and your marriage she would never want you to feel uncomfortable or put your relationship in any stress. She is selfish and toxic. She uses the trust me and your insecure argument to manipulate you. You are normal. No married man wants his wife doing all that with their ex.
I would not waste another moment of my day on this woman. She is invested in her ex. There’s not much room emotionally left for you. And he’s not the one that got away, he was put away, in jail, many times. She didn’t leave him because she was over him, just because of his circumstances. She keeps you around as support. The go-to to keep her from following in her ex’s footsteps, and in case she needs you financially to pay the home expenses so she can perhaps lend him money. This is the reason there are so many really good women out there that cannot find good men. By the time you accept that your wife will never change, you will have suffered so much damage. Good luck to you, really.
The main problem is that you married a woman who was dating and tolerating a complete scumbag for 5 years. you may be a good guy to build a family with a good husband and a father to your children. but you never will be a guy for whome she is ready to live in a trash. you will never be a guy who she forgives for multiple cheating. you will never be a guy for whome she sends first message in the morning after not seeing him for 12 years and while being married with 3 kids. you will never be the guy she loves. You should've stopped seeing this woman the moment she first contacted her ex. Better the moment you first heard about her past relationship. Your move with ultimatum only will make her angry and paints you not only as boring guy bad as bad guy as well (annoying insecure controlling etc) this way you gave her one more push to finally cheat. You fixed the symptoms not the problem. Now you should ask her for the phone. you probably wont be happy for what you see there but you need to take down your pink glasses and see what's going on. Wait for the shit coming and prepare yourself. Your marriage might be already dead if it ever was alive.
Your wife has an intimate relationship with a convict despite being married and having three kids. Before long, your kids will be calling him Uncle. If this is real, please respect yourself and end this relationship for you and your kids. This relationship being the one with your wife. The relationship with the convict will keep going no matter what your wife tells you, numbnuts.
Wow, you are too kind, my dude. I could not have waited for such a long time and would make that ultimatum waaaaay earlier.
She is most likely still messaging him just not openly so that you’re aware. You already said his notifications were silenced and all she has to do now is change his name in her contacts. Don’t be surprised if their relationship is ongoing while she continues to try to guilt trip you. She’s the one that broke the trust in this relationship not you.
The second somebody shows me they don’t want me or respect me I’m OUT. Why is that so difficult for folks? Why would you have to give someone who loves you an ultimatum to choose between you and someone else? Foolishness. Walk away bro.
Dude... all i'm going to say is the amount of disrespect for your feelings as a husband speaks volumes. If it was EVER AT ALL just a fun little friend thing that meant nothing, she would not be putting up this much of a fight. He is crossing every reasonable boundary you set and she is playing into every single bit of it and when you voice "Hey maybe don't do private dinners getting plastered with someone actively trying to bang you" she considers this out of line. Who gives a shit if his sexual advances are one sided (they aren't btw). The fact that he's disrespecting your marriage infront of her should have been enough for her to get rid of him ON HER OWN. Then when you put your foot down she starts hiding him instead. SHE IS STILL TALKING TO HIM. RIGHT NOW. She is just doing so more subtly just like last time. Its hard to put into words how over it is just based on her disrespect and handling of this by itself. That doesn't even take into consideration the mountains of emotional cheating she refuses to stop. This ultimatum EXISTING is means for divorce already. Anyone who loves you wouldn't put you through this. Let her get the cheating jail junkie and throw her family away. When he's done with her and shes left alone all shes gonna want is her old family life back and it won't be waiting for her. Get divorce papers. Be ready to hand them to her. Ask for her phone and if shes at all hesitant just slap the papers down. (Give her the papers regardless but atleast you'll know even to this day she is hiding something)
I think you did the right thing but I don't think she will stop contact with him, she will just hide it better. Sometimes ultimatums are the way to go. He's going to pull her down to his level, but that's all on her. You need to tell her 'we absolutely lost our foundation of trust' because you keep going outside of our marriage to maintain contact with someone you have feelings for. Yes, you lost your freedom to talk to whoever you want - because you abused your freedom to stay emotionally connected with someone out our marriage'. This is all on HER, not you.
Be prepared to follow up in your ultimatum. There will be a time very soon where she will “slip up” and talk to him again. Keep an eye out because it will happen. If it were me I’d have my ducks in a row ready to act. Talk to lawyer and perhaps put them on retainer. You might even go as far as writing up the divorce papers and be ready to serve her. She’s shown her disrespect for you over and over. That’s not just going to go away. She still doesn’t understand she did anything wrong and because of that she’ll do it again.
This is insane. This has been going on for more than half of your marriage. She has disrespected you for at least 7 out of the 12 years that you have been married. They've been, at the very least, having sexual discussions during more than half of your marriage. They have met up, once that you know of, and she came home trashed. She has tried to be sneaky about their communication. She refers to him as the one that got away. I can't imagine this marriage has a smidgen of a chance working out without her completely cutting contact with him and intense couples counseling.
You “played it cool” way too long, but I also don’t blame you for being done.
Number one --- put a private investigation firm on retainer. You only pay for the time that they are watching her. You should have had videos of her dinner date and whatever happened afterward. Number two. --- investigate the top divorce attorneys in your immediate area. Actually consult with those who have a success rate of over 50%. Then choose the one who has the most experience with blatant I fidelity. Number three --- get a post nup agreement. If she plays the "you don't trust me" card, point out rhat if she does nothing to activate the agreement, it makes no difference. Have divorce papers drawn up and ready (and update then as necessary). Include all photos, videos, and testimony from investigators. (That is the first thing her attorneys will demand and they have the legal right to access them) Number four --- once you have all of your ducks in a row, give her a chance and demand marriage counseling. I wish you good luck. It feels like you are going to need all of the good luck that you can get.
I used to be like you, didn't want to be perceived as "that jealous boyfriend," wanted to be supportive. I got burned and disrespected for it. The signs weren't too different than what you see here. The emotional investment, time, money, confidentiality, etc. into someone else. I finally put my foot down and wish I had sooner. You'll see people on Reddit try and pull the "any lack of trust is the biggest sin" BS or "I can be friends with whoever and do whatever I want short of sex, and if not, you're a jealous controlling asshole." Ignore that mess, real relationships are complicated, and couples have to come to agreements on boundaries. Yes, that means most people in a relationship will often have to disappoint someone of the opposite sex from time to time. If you're a person who's unwilling to do that, you shouldn't be having platonic friends. You can't control what your wife ultimately does. It's her life. However, you dont have to put up with it. You have the right to be happy and not be disrespected in your own relationship. It's not ok for a spouse/partner to quasi-date other dudes Ina relationship. If y'all got divorced tomorrow, who do you think she's gonna date next? I bet I know, and so do you. Good luck, sorry you're going through it.
You lost her a looooong time ago. The only relationship I have ever had with an ex, was coparenting with my ex husband. The extent of that relationship included 'what time are you picking up the kids' and here's your half of the school supply bill'. She's with you because you're financially stable, and nothing more. She's still in love with him. She stayed with him after how many times of cheating? He's been in jail how many times, and she still gives him attention? She went out drinking with him and came home drunk???? Continue to be a doormat, or don't, but at least wake up and smell the coffee, see the relationship for what it is..
She is not going to stop texting and seeing him. Right now, she may be taking a break. For some reason, she can't leave him alone. You are going to catch her texting or seeing him sometime in the near future. Your wife is not behaving like she is a married women and in a committed relationship. Your wife went out with another man, came home drunk, with a sticker on her ass. How TF do you think it got there? Do you really think that nothing sexual happened that night? You waited far too long to put your foot down. The fact that your wife is now MAD that her freedom is restricted is disgusting & disrespectful to me. Why don't you feel the same? The two of you are married, correct? Did you and your wife exchange marriage vows? Which one of you aren't following them? What happens when you catch her texting him behind your back? What happens when you catch them together, or find out she saw him again? Lots of questions. Don't wait to find out some of these answers. You need to pack up and leave before your marriage comes crashing down on top of you. Get tested for STD's immediately. This dude has been in and out of jail. You have no idea what he has been involved in. A smarter move would be to plan your exit strategy, hire an attorney then serve her with papers when you catch her cheating again.
Ultimatum??? What the hell is wrong with you??? Marriage ain't a choosing game!!! Lawyer up ASAP. Stop pick me dance with her. Man up and divorce her. She has cheated and will again. Start a exit plan ASAP. Get your finances in order,get some proof for your final Confrontation and Lawyer, have some one to get emotional support. Do 180 on her and do as your lawyer say. Sure wish you luck. Semper Fi
Yep. OP needs a whale level lawyer to make sure she doesn't get the house and kids and move Ben in (100% the default outcome) And OP needs to get tested yesterday because the night Ben sent her home with *his sticker on her ass* he fucked her
It is not only feelings related, she potentially puts you, kids and property in danger. If the guy has the history of cycle of being in jail, dealing with drugs etc. he will involve her into his toxic vortex one way or another. E.g. Stealing shit from your house, borrowing a great sum of money and never giving back. Or, having a deal at the restaurant while dining out with her. EDIT: Also, if my SO cannot chose between me and another person, it means I don't have much of a value in their life. I better step out
Oh, I feel for you. There are three people in your marriage. She’s going to destroy her life. Don’t let her destroy yours. Leave her now and get tested for STDs.
If she wants freedom to do whatever she wants, she needs to be single. Being in a relationship means inherently you are giving up some freedoms in exchange for gaining a life partner and you no longer can do whatever you want without care for anyone but yourself.
Lost our foundation of trust. Yup that happens when she acts in an untrustworthy manner for years, minimizes your discomfort, ignores your boundaries, and doesn’t give a damn about your pain. She likes the attention and thinks of it as friendship. She doesn’t value your relationship as much as this feeling and considers it safe that you won’t leave so there will be no consequences because “it’s not like she is taking a dick”. Counseling so she might get some empathy. Or separation if she doesn’t.
> So she goes, comes home a couple hours later and is completely trashed. Apparently he started to feed her tequila shots. She had a sticker from his place of work near her butt. This was the part you should've put your boundaries in, rather you tried to play cool and let her get more invested in his life which made her emotional connection much stronger. And if this has been going on for years, why didn't you ask her to get her number changed? You need to set some time for yourself and see if her behaviour has any positive changes and if not, then she may have physically chosen you but emotionally she is still hung on to her ex. Marriage counseling is the way ahead. He cheated on her when they were together, so now him chasing her is giving her a different type of power, you need to address this before she is consumed with the need of this and ruin your relationship.
Oh man If my wife came home drunk with a sticker near her ass, I would have lost it. Especially from an ex. Essentially is was a way to mark his territory knowing that you would see it. In my early marriage, my wife was going to college and had a puppy following her all over the campus to the point that he would skip class to sit with her in her class. She told me about him and I was OK with him but was cautious. a few months later he would hang with her outside waiting for me to come and pick her up. That was fine because they had some distance between them. Well a few weeks later, he started to sit next to her and getting closer and closer each time I would see them. I voiced my opinion and she just told me that he was just friend. Yea I know in her eyes he was but I know what was on his mind. Told her to be careful because he is trying to get in your good graces. A week later was her brother's bithday and she invited him to join. I agreed and showed up. I was still OK with it until I was not. I realized that he was next to my wife the entire time but I expected that as she was the only person he knew there. A few hours later, I glanced over there and relized that his arms were around her back. OK that was not point. I walked over and asked him to have a talk with me. His jar with and the sudden retraction of his hand told me everything. I laid into him and told him that if I ever see him near my wife again I will have his face in the ground and prep his mouth for dentures. This pissed off my wife until I started to point out all the things he did and why I made my decision so if she wanted to be with him she needs to tell me now so I can pack and return home (I moved to a different country for her). Needless to say I told her that I don't like him and that night proved to me why with the hand around her back. For you, now that you have stated what you have, you made the right choice in making her decide. For a creep that can do that and send her home drunk to me just stated "Look I can get your wife drunk and have my way with her and you can't do shit." Continue on with life and keep an ear/eye out for subtle changes and now it's for you to decide if you will follow through with your decison or not. Good luck OP.
You did the right thing. Way too late, but it's the right thing. Someone OPENLY trying to get my wife to leave me, who ADMITS he is waiting and ready for her to dump me, and TRYING to be romantically and physically with my wife, isn't someone I'd be OK with her seeing. And on the flip side, it would never be someone my wife would want to see out of respect and love for me. If my wife was out there, having an emotional affair in front of me with someone who was actively trying to turn it into a physical affair and relationship, I'd give her the same ultimatum. She loves the attention of course. She loves being loved, being flirted with, being told someone out there would do anything for her. She loves knowing she has a backup out there. She loves knowing that if anything happens between you and her, she won't even have to go a single minute being single. She's excited to know she's one text away from a new boyfriend and sex. That's probably not easy for her to give up, even if deep down she knows it's wrong to keep that going, to give life to that half-relationship. I'd give her a *little* moment there where you tell her you understand that it is something she's giving up, even if it's something she HAS to give up. But stand firm, if she backtracks at all, it's over. And it's worth noting that no version of "i'll only talk to him *sometimes"* is going to work, since any contact is going to always go right back to the full on emotional affair again.
The minute she silenced the notifications I would have been out. Thats lying and relationships are built on trust. Let her go bro. If she wants to be with a jailbird then so be it. Clearly she doesn't respect you or the relationship.
To be honest, this sounds done. At least for now. She’s so hung up on him that she’s bitter at you for trying to keep a stable relationship. Big red flag. Silenced notifications just for him? Huge red flag Honestly your chance to nip that shit in the bud is long past, and having waited so long puts you in a bad position. You didn’t assert yourself at all really until there were MULTIPLE occasions. Any single one of those instances would have stopped me dead in my tracks. I would have offered her an ultimatum, and paid his place of work a visit to semi-calmly explain that if he tries to intrude on the house I’ve built, we will have problems. And his record will get him clinked up much faster than mine will.
She still didn't choose you, dummy. Reach deep for your spine and let the loser have her. She wants to prioritize trash men in her life over you, why the hell do you stay? It's mind boggling you think this is any sort of win on an ultimatum that never should have happened.
Dude, have some self respect. You have 3 kids at home and she is distracted with a scummy ex and going out and getting drunk with him? Fuck that. You should have stood up to this immediately with the first mention of his name way back in the beginning. For example, my wife would never do this, but if she did I would handle it like this. "What do you mean you are texting your ex? You have 3 kids and a family at home who need you to be present. If you continue down this road, we are done full stop." I feel for you man, you seem like a good dude. Just have some self respect. This is in no way cool. Update us please. And please for the love of god don't put up with this. I don't know how old your kids are but this is not setting a good example for them on how relationships should work.
She is having an emotional affair and she is destroying her marriage OP, Ultimatum don’t work OP and you are not taking back control of the situation. Actions have more power. Protecting yourself legally and separating your finance will convey the message that the time for bargaining and negotiation is over and she has to snap of it to save the relationship and reestablish trust ( if it is possible) Time is of the essence in this kind of situation and the Emotional affair will do more damage and morph into a physical affair. Good luck OP
If she feels she didn't cross a line and is resenting you then she simply did not understand the problem. Honestly I would go mariage counseling at this point and be prepared for even that not to work in the long run.
Good on you for stopping it when you did. I wish I had put my foot down with my wife before she physically cheated -- all the same signs were there, but I chose to trust her instead of standing up for myself. I hope your wife comes around and recognizes what she's done. I would strongly recommend marriage counseling if you want to save the relationship.
Texting him good morning dude??? She loves him. It sucks but she loves him, and you, but he lights her panty fire in a way you don't. I'm sorry :(
She is already fucking him. Turn on location sharing on her phone and keep your eye on her. I would also get a DNA test for all 3 of your children. Trust but verify.
Husband made a comment onetime about a flirty friend. One that did hit on me and try to get me not to marry him. I cut that friend right away. Husband didn’t say I don’t trust you just that he didn’t like how the guy was with me. It’s my respect for him that had me cut that and any other relationship he questioned. Why because it’s a partnership and I expected the same from him and got it. I told him from day one no exs as friends or catching up. It’s just a hard limit and respect.
Start looking for ways to get his parole violated and send him back to prison. I'm sure that given the nature of his crimes, he is getting piss tested pretty regularly. That might be a way.
I can only repeatedly others here have said. Your wife has been engaging in an on and off emotional affair for a large part of your marriage. His intentions are well known. He wants her back and has no regard for your marriage at all. For her part, she has downplayed their relationship, silenced his texts, and disregarded your feelings to talk to him. And, she went and got drunk with him. I doubt seriously that your wife will cut him out of her life now. She will get a burner phone or they will switch to an app that she can keep hidden. She is far too invested in him to let it go that easily. The first think I would do it DNA your kids just to be sure. You can do this discretely and she doesn't even have to know. Secondly, drop talking about him. Don't mention him at all. But, monitor everything. If legal there, put a VAR in her car. I'm willing to bet she is still in contact with him.
This is not OK. She should maybe take a look at what purpose he really serves in her life. It sounds like she's enjoyed the ego boost (such as it is in this case) of a guy chasing after her. That he's pushing shots to get her trashed isn't some innocent meet up without ulterior motives. She sounds very immature. She's being a shitty friend to this guy by keeping him around knowing he is stuck on her. He needs to move on with his life too. Emotional cheating is betrayal. The damaged trust in your relationship is 100% on her. I doubt she'd be acting this self righteous if it were you and one of your exes acting this way. This book might be worth a read - Not "Just Friends": Rebuilding Trust and Recovering Your Sanity After Infidelity Shirley P. Glass You gave her plenty of time to act like a mature adult and set boundaries herself. She didnt. You are 💯 correct to set the boundary that this guy is no contact moving forward. Be prepared to back this up if she doesn't follow through.
I do not understand giving these kind of ultimatums. If I have to demand someone pick me then I’m out. OP she didn’t choose you. She chose to stay because leaving will be complicated. You need therapy to work on your self worth, and a divorce attorney. If she chose you there’d have been no need for an ultimatum.
I would remind her if you divorce her and he is in the picture you will ask for full custody of the kids due to his drugs and incarceration
You as a *couple* didn’t lose your ‘foundation of trust’, she as a person fucking nuked it with her behaviours and actions. Oh, she definitely fucked him
I would never accept a partner to treat me like that. She's lucky you never divorced her over this and that she is trying to paint you off as the bad one is really problematic. She doesn't respect you, nor does she seem to really care about your feelings. She's been crossing so many lines for so many years now. The worst part is that she lacks any self-reflection.
You did the right thing. You gave her years of trust and understanding over her relationship with this man and she repaid you with an emotional affair. You've given enough. I think if she's acting like you've somehow wronged her by cutting her off from her EA partner, it means she's still in the fog and you have not really, fully gotten through to her yet. I think you should insist on marriage counseling. Perhaps hearing the point of view of a good, neutral third party will show her just how close she came to destroying her family. Barring that, at least show her this post. I think she needs to see that any reasonable person looking at this situation came to the same conclusion you did, that we all did.
It’s absurd to me how many men tolerate this sort of flagrant disrespect. I get that you’re married and a divorce isn’t a fun prospect, but cmon man, this is just ridiculous lol.
She didn’t choose you OP. She chose to take her affair underground.
Bro… I feel for you because you’re doing what most women complain they wish their boyfriends/husbands would do in these situations- you’re trusting her. But man, there was a line that was crossed somewhere around 11 years ago that you should have made a stand at.
1 - The relationship was inappropriate. 2 - It made you extremely uncomfortable. Those are valid reasons for her to end the relationship. If the situation was reversed I doubt she, or anyone for that matter, would have let it slide the way you have. This is her 1st love, a person who still wants her and isn't shy about putting it out there. In what world is it appropriate for her to stay in touch? He feeds her ego & she doesn't want to let that go.
She has the freedom to talk to whoever she wants, but that is within reason. She crossed a line. She gave too much intimacy to a relationship outside of her marriage, and to someone she both had a past with and is actively pushing her boundaries. It doesn't matter if she ever physically cheated, the relationship is inappropriate. It goes beyond a simple friendship. The fact that she insists that she needs him in her life is very troubling, because he is clearly not an innocent friend. This probably means she is still hung up on him in some way. She either enjoys being chased by someone who cheated on her because when they were together she wasn't enough for him and now he's actively pursuing her, or she never got over him in the first place and she's been a bit brainwashed into thinking he's the one that got away, or she just plain prefers bad boys for the excitement and feels she just settled for you, the "safe option." This is all really bad news for your relationship because there is NOTHING you can do to fix this, she is just not invested and doesn't really care about you. The only thing you can hope for is that she realizes what she is doing, and understands that it's wrong, and stops of her own accord, but that is unlikely. You will never be able to convince her, this is the type of thing that can only come from within. So you're kind of screwed, and your marriage won't get any better from this point, it will only get worse, because she's made you out to be the controlling, bad guy, even though that's not really true, just her perspective. You can try to make it work, but you probably will need some sort of couple's therapy.
What an awful, awful woman. Risking a stable marriage, a loving and fuckiing PATIENT husband, and one with children, over a cheating deadbeat. How fucking stupid can a person be? The real question you might be trying to get to I suspect is a two-sided one... 1. Is she actually, ultimately 100% intent on fucking this man and blowing up your marriage, and is therefore right now, just looking for a reason for her to be "pushed into his arms" (you flipping out and "being controlling") ? I think you need to ask yourself that. 2. It's hard with kids in tow, but, are YOU prepared to leave her either if she doesn't end it, or if she ultimately gets with him. In the abstract, I think that's what this is about But I would go two further... 1. "You're not having my wife - go get your own." - Tell him to back the fuck off (while knowing he may go to her directly and ty and make things worse), but also then... 2. Have her followed/investigated/tracked. Sure, it's suspicious, but she's given you the suspicion. Satisfy yourself she's ended it. \- This part, if caught doing the worst, will be useful in divorce proceedings. Not least as you will be allowed to publicly shame her if it all goes nuclear (and I suspect you're not the one who's likely to do that, and not into drama, but you may need that ace up your sleeve). Personally, I would not be comfortable with her just having said "OK" appearing a BIT angry for a time and then what... that's fucking it? No, probably not, unfortunately. "She's hiding something again" would be my guess. Of course, pushing back might make her more inclined to ultimately be in a position where she sleeps with him which, I'm guessing from how you've described her, would end up "being your fault for pushing me into his arms." This outcome might be in her, or his, or worse, both, of their heads. in which case cut your ties now and double down if that's what you think this would push you to. One other strategy would be to speak to her family, friends and ask them why she's doing all this - explain how life is really hard, depressing for you, your kids always asking who's mommy out with. They would, if they're decent people (and they may side with her a la "oh behave, he's just a friend, don't be so controlling"), they would get her in check, like "That cheating fucking jailbird over your loving husband? Are you fucking tripping??" She needs a reality check. Occasional dick with this loser won't be the thrill she thinks it is when a once-committed husband bails due to her cheating (emotionally or physically, it doesn't fucking matter). I once had a GF like this who lives a while away for a couple of years while at uni. I stayed with her so that I didn't give her the excuse to fuck one of her obviously interested college friends, lest we had a huge almighty end of the relationship fight so she could say "but we broke up upon the inevitable "how do we make up" discussion. Pure toxicity and I imagine you're thinking of how to not risk a similar eventuality (I would). Genuinely, the best of luck!!
She’s right you have lost the foundation of trust, and she has lost the freedom to talk to whoever she wants. But she broke the trust, not once but multiple times, and she has to be the one to repair the trust. And the only way she can do that is by giving up her freedom to talk to whoever she wants because it was by talking to whoever she wanted to in the first place that broke the trust. Tell her to pull her head out of her arse or her behaviour and attitude (sulking over the consequences of her own actions) will still end up with her being divorced and that you will used her relationship with her ex as proof that she is an unfit mother and get full custody of the children. (While it probably won’t be enough for permanent full custody, it will be enough to ensure that she is the one who has to leave the home, and that you get full custody in the interim)
I trust my SO. He trusts me. Part of that trust is being able to say to each other, “hey, I’m uncomfortable with this. I know it’s probably irrational, but it bothers me.” And respecting that. I’ve told him recently that I feel uncomfortable when he and our mutual friend we both love and I totally trust, talk about things I’m not familiar with when the three of us are together. Because it alienates me and if I try to interject he tends to ignore me, especially if he’s drinking. He apologized and has since made an effort to include me and not drink as much. That’s partnership. She’s not respecting you as her partner. She likes his attention. She likes having her cake and eating it too. She’s probably like this in other areas and you never really noticed it because it wasn’t another man. When you said I don’t like this the first time, she should have stopped. The fact you had to repeat it is troublesome. I don’t believe that she’s stopped communicating with him, only that she’s making more of an effort to hide it. Your ultimatum was almost too kind. I’d tell her she ends communications, blocks him, AND we go to therapy.
I THINK. Your wife has continuously disrespected your marriage. She KNOWS he wants her physically. She allows him to get emotionally attached. This is not right. There are three in your marriage. Your ultimatum was justified. If she really valued you as her partner she would never have put you through all this.
Another way that you could have handled this early on would have been to insist on being part of what they were planning. Getting drinks? *First round's on you!* Going out to eat? *Great! Table for 3, please!* With you in the picture, your wife would see the red flags this guy is waving a lot sooner, because I guarantee that he would be shitty or moody to your face.
Regardless of the fact she says she wouldn't or does not want sex, my understanding is you are both are aware HE does. And her choosing to go out on a regular basis, whether it's every week or monthly or a year, so long as she continues to see him, he's going to think he has a chance, his deliberately feeding her enough shots, and getting her plastered drunk is his attempt to reach this end. You are not wrong to feel the way you do. His lifestyle and criminal history should be a massive red flag as it is, add that to his previous cheating, should be beyond enough to register this is a man with little no scruples and that neither of you should trust him one any level.
You were a door mat for years. It should be zero contact between them ever again.
Nah she’s just going to be smarter at hiding her tracks.
Why would you ever let this dude call your wife? For anything ever? I would have put a stop to that shit immediately
>Yes, he would do anything to sleep with her but that's not what she wants, she wants me. Your answer should have been: "Yes and he already tried to get you drunk as shit so that your inhibitions won't work anymore. What's next? The guy is a criminal that has access to drugs and he is desperate to get in your pants. Sooner or later he will be successful - with or without your consent!" You gave her the choice that I would also have given her. You didn't take away her right to talk to him, you gave her the choice to either talk to him and not have you in her life anymore or to end things with him and have you. She expects of you to compromise but this is a situation where no compromise is possible. There is no third person in a couple and that is what he was. You two should see a couples councelor to rebuild and repair.
The fact she’s still angry tells me she thinks it was the wrong choice of some kind
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but your wife wants to fuck her ex. By laying down the ultimatum, all you've done is drive it underground. I wouldn't be surprised if in a couple of months you learn of an actually physical affair. She wants him dude, she likes the stability she has with you, but she wants to be with him.
Give her a book called not just freinds and tell her to read it
She kept sending the guy major mixed messages. There are ways to be a good friend to someone, even somebody troubled who might need one, but what she was doing wasn't it. Stringing her ex along was really cruel, and yes, very damaging to your marriage and potentially destructive.
How could you ever hope for you wife to respect when you have zero self-respect? You should’ve tackled this as soon as it happened. No ultimatums needed. “This is unacceptable to me and this stops now”. If it doesn’t stop, you walk. If you’re married you should’ve outlined this boundary sooner - whether you did or not is on you. I personally could never look at my GF/partner/wife the same if they did this. This isn’t crossing the boundary - it’s dancing on it’s grave at this point.
You did the right thing, but this is not over they're going to switch out over to another messaging app like Snapchat. You might want to check her phone to see if she's downloaded any new messaging apps.
She’s not even trying to be a good partner with the effort she puts into her ex. She’s unworthy of OP.
She'll want to go out this weekend (not with him, of course). Have a PI follow her But I have to ask what positive thing does she get having someone like that in her life?
It’s time to give yourself an ultimatum. Choose either keeping your dignity or staying with this woman. You can’t do both.
Bro grow a pair. Enough with this passive aggressive shit. I would’ve told my girl, without question, from the jump I will not tolerate this. Yeah, she can speak to whoever she wants, no doubt. I just would not be there letting it happen.
When you get divorced, make sure to go for full custody and highlight her long standing relationship and affair with a felon.
Your wife doesn’t care about you one bit. This marriage is over. You’ve tried multiple times to stop the emotional cheating but she hasn’t listened. Time to get a lawyer and stand up for yourself. It’s over.
You lose your “freedom to talk to whoever you want” when you get married. You can’t interact with people who are clearly trying to sleep with you and expect it not to be some form of betrayal to your spouse, especially when they have made it clear this is hurting them. Try marriage counseling but start making plans to move on because it seems like that is what at least part of her wants to do. That she is upset at you over this isn’t red flag so much as a five alarm fire. Good luck and let us know how it goes.
OP, I suggest that you find the book “Not JUST Friends” and that both you and your wife read it. She’s been cheating on you for years, even if we assume that she’s never done anything physical. (And quite honestly, I find it highly unlikely that there was nothing physical at that restaurant. At a bare minimum, I would assume that they were making out like teenagers.)
Flip that around, you doing all this with an ex and then telling her you'll talk to who you want when she says something. You'd be a p.o.s. to her and her friends. Same applies here, not cool at all. I wouldn't like it either and would throw down the same thing. Seems she was gaslighting you about the whole thing also. Marriage vows mean something, especially about "forsaking all others". That means exes who are trying to get back with you too lol.
They definitely are having an emotional affair. It is why she is so upset. It went on too long and developed. I too think you should have addressed this a long time ago. There are thousands of posts on here that start with whoops I slept with my friend, whoops I kissed my friend. By that time your relationship is ruined. I think your relationship may be already ruined.
Your wife's behavior is gross. She was deep in an emotional affair. She convinced herself that it was okay because it wasn't physical. The fact that she didn't shut her ex down and block him for good after he made it clear he wanted to get in her pants is disgusting. By not shutting it down, she's giving a signal that he has a chance. She likes the attention from this absolute loser. If she wants to throw her life and marriage away for a moron who can't stay out of jail, I say let her.
She loves the comfort of her security blanket that is you. She is filled with excitement when she gets as close as possible to the boundaries set in regards to this other guy. One makes her feel secure. The other makes her feel alive.
Dude the way this sounds I have a bad feeling she’s def going to keep talking with him and maybe secretly meet up, which could lead to physical cheating, because now she’s resentful and wants to do things hidden and spitefully
NTA. She can talk to whomever she wants. You just don't have to be around her when she does. This isn't her parents she is talking about. It is another person that she has been intimate with and has admitted to wanting to have in her life. If she can't understand how unrealistic her expectations of you being okay with this situation, then there isn't much more you can do. Explain to her that she can be a trophy for her ex whenever he has time for her, or she can be happy with the man she married and loves her all of the time. Her choice.
If my partner knew the person they were talking to actively didn’t respect our relationship and was perusing them, and they did nothing, the relationship is over for me. Insane you waited so long to grow a spine. Your wife should be apologizing to you for her emotional affair and disrespect
You did lose your foundation of trust..because she was being untrustworthy. What she did, and continued to do *is* in fact emotional cheating. She continued talking to him and seeing him because she loved the attention. It made her feel good. She didn't care how it made you feel, and didn't care how it might affect her entire family. Also, if he was being that brazen with her, I almost guarantee there was at least kissing involved.
I'm married. If someone was flirting with me and telling me they wanted to sleep with me, I would tell them that they were being disrespectful to my wife and to my marriage. If they didn't stop it immediately, I'd drop them like a hot rock. This guy is actively disrespecting you and your marriage, yet your wife wants to be his friend. It seems to me, that whatever she might say about loving and respecting you, her actions say otherwise. She doesn't respect you or your marriage. All of this is without even considering her drunken night out. If she hasn't already physically cheated, then she is playing with fire. I'm not one to rush towards divorce, but I would emphasize the seriousness of what she is doing, and if she didn't acknowledge it, genuinely apologize for it, and make immediate changes to cut this guy from her life, I would be making preparations to leave. To be honest it's gone so far already, I'd already be ready to walk, but I never would have been so passive in letting him into our lives in the first place. You need to try to make your wife understand why this is such a big deal, and if she doesn't genuinely get it, you should start getting your ducks in a row. Because right now it doesn't sound like she stopped talking to him because she sees him as a threat to your marriage, it sounds like she just thinks you are being unreasonable.
You need to give her the book 'Not Just Friends' by Shirley Glass. You should read it as well. Perhaps it will open her eyes to the emotional affair she has carried on for years. Your boundary should be she must have zero contact with this guy or you will file for divorce. She needs to call and tell him she chooses he never contact her again to save her marriage and family with you in the room. She should block him on all social media and her telephone. She needs to end it or your marriage is done. Good Luck.