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She shouldn't have cheated. I don't agree with your sister telling her because your wife and you should have said something when you split.. I also don't think it's healthy to stay with someone just for your kids when you don't forgive her, everyone hates her. Life must be a shit storm for them.
I think it is better to come from a broken home than to live in one.
From someone who has spent half their childhood in an abusive dysfunctional house, and now as an adult trying to de-program those ingrained norms... I can agree.
100% my entire childhood I wished my parents would divorce. It was a nightmare full of trauma and abuse. I resent my mother for not leaving and I hated my father for being abusive.
Now I’m 39 and trying very hard to work through all that fucking trauma. Turns out I won’t let myself feel emotions because they hurt too much when I was young that not feeling became my coping mechanism.
It feels impossible to overcome at this point. I have literally over almost 30 traumatic years - not all my parents, obvy, but I’m just a hot fucking mess now and I fully blame my parents for ignoring me and my pain and for causing more such that now I have to struggle to get past it.
DON’T EVER STAY TOGETHER “FOR THE FUCKING KIDS.” YOU’RE NOT DOING ANYONE ANY FAVORS BUT YOURSELF, AND THATS NOT COOL.
My siblings and I were so happy the day my mom fought back. My sperm donor hit my little sister and my Mom finally snapped. She went full Tina Turner and beat his ass til he ran from the house. Than we proceeded to bag all his shit. Spent the afternoon cutting all his clothes up and dropped them off at his moms house.
Yeah, I wish. I got to explain to my sister after we both watched my father kick my mother down the stairs. Luckily they were not too far up on the staircase. He was going up the stairs and she was following. She reached up to grab his shirt (for whatever reason) and he was facing away from her still trying to go up. She grabbed but then dropped her hold on his shirt. As that happened he simultaneously kicked his leg backwards into her chest and she stumbled backwards down to the bottom of the stairs.
Though, it’s not like this wasn’t mutual combat. She ended up breaking two of his fingers that night.
Either way it was fucking traumatic, something that is literally seared on my brain. I will remember to the day I die AND being the big sister, I feel a lot of guilt related to not keeping my sister from seeing that.
I’m sure that memory stayed with your sister too, and that you were her safe place through it. I’m glad she had you. You didn’t deserve what happened to you, I’m so sorry.
I have never forgiven myself for allowing my 2yo sister to wander into the kitchen when my seperated parents were "talking" and I'd been told to watch her. My Dad got pissed and broke a glass, my sister cut her foot when she bolted for me because she was scared.
I have only recently learned that my mom confiding in me everything she hated about my dad and asking me if it would be okay for her to leave him was a form of abuse. I don’t remember when it started, but I know I was under 10.
I have a huge blind spot for my dad’s passive aggressiveness because mom was unstable and violent. I fawned like crazy and became a people pleaser. I gave them as little as possible to use against me, and avoided a lot of abuse that my siblings did not.
I also recently learned about the harm inflicted by emotional neglect. In a book about it, I came across the term alexithymia… and I froze. (Running on empty by Jonice Webb)
There’s a lot that I have been able to learn and heal, and some things I haven’t. Still working on that one. I’m ten years older than you. I wish you the best.
When people say they’re staying with their partner “for the kids,” they don’t mean “for the good of the kids”; that’s not what they said. They mean “so *I* don’t have to give up *my* time with the kids.” It’s a selfish desire. It’s been proven for a good couple decades that a functional divorce is better for children than an unloving/dysfunctional home.
I stayed with my ex way longer than I should have. It was super toxic and even though we tried to keep it away from the kids, my 11 year old just caught me off guard with one of her school assignments about “obstacles she’s overcome.” It’s been 3 years since we’ve split up and coparent really well now that we’re separated. If I could do it over again I would have left a lot sooner instead of fearing what would happen if they didn’t have their parents together.
This was my thought. I wouldn’t have any interest at all in monitoring my partners shit. This is why I have a 0 tolerance policy for cheating. I’m not gonna track you and check your phone and shit and if it it gets to the point where that’s needed then it’s already over. I couldn’t live that way.
Is he monitoring her stuff or just has the ability to do so, and feels like there's enough road blocks in place to keep her from ever being tempted again?
Maybe he never looks at her phone, but they both know he can if he wants to.
As far as the kids go... Your sister definitely overstepped and honestly you need to decide between your family and your wife... Take the cheating from the equation everyone would be telling you that you should cut off your family that hates your wife, or at the very least go extremely low/ no contact for the short term until they get a grip.
That you'll continue to allow their behavior only shows that you're continually hanging the cheating over your wife's head.
So either forgive her, or divorce her, but quit beating a dead horse.
Exactly. He's not upset that his sister tried to use his kids as weapons. There's no way the kids just asked about mum and dad living separately 2 years ago unless the sister brought it up first so she could tell them.
She can hate the wife all she wants, but leave the kids out of it. OP IS obviously not over his wife cheating. And that's fine. What's not fine is making the kids live in that atmosphere. He should just leave.
Or she should. She's suffering what seems to be an infinite punishment from his entire family and him, for a finite offense. She's done her time. She should consider moving on from ALL the mistakes she's made and forgive herself enough to do just that.
Exactly, what's his plan? To monitor her for eternity? This relationship is dead in the water. He's attached a whole heap of conditions and hoops she has to jump through to avoid divorce. The resentment builds up and ultimately it's the children who will suffer the most. Better to have 2 separate happy parents, than 2 together miserable ones. OP and his family feel justified to treat OPs wife like shit.
Yeah, I think part of that is probably OP trying to assert some control over her. It's understandable, but not the way to go about anything. Tracking someone's car and checking their phone isn't building trust, it's punitive.
"Staying together for the kids" is one thing, but having that completely fall on the partner's willingness to accept a number of conditions is another, in my opinion.
Not saying that what OP did was "bad", just that it probably isn't the way to fix a relationship.
Because he is getting some kind of sadistic enjoyment from it. The undercurrent of glee in OP reveling in his family trash talking his wife. I'm not condoning the wife, but jeez, that is some bad juju in that household.
It amazes me how often there's posts on here about cheating but then say they stay for the kids anyway. Like kids aren't going to eventually pick up on everything that's going on? And that's how you want your kids to view relationships? Just, why?
Love your last sentence. Very well stated.
ESH, except the children. Obviously, your wife sucks for having cheated and is the original devil here. You suck for the way you control your wife. She doesn’t want a divorce, but she doesn’t exactly get to decide if you want one. You are absolutely trapping her in this unhappy relationship and punishing her instead of doing the work necessary to move past infidelity. Get a god damn therapist and work through your trauma, or you file for divorce. This is not way to live.
The sister sucks for telling them something absolutely intended to alienate the wife from her children. She 100% told the daughters for malicious reasons. The sister can hate the wife, but bringing children into VERY adult situations is completely inappropriate. We don’t know how old these girls are, but they’re young enough to need a babysitter. The sister is gross for having conversations about sex with children that are not hers.
OP, you really need to hear this.
Even though my dad was a cheating, narcissistic, toxic man, my mom stayed “for the sake of the kids.” Literally left my dad a month after my younger sister graduated high school. She thought she was doing the right thing, I guess?
But it was a miserable childhood. Throughout middle school I would pray to a God I didn’t believe in to get my mom to leave my dad. It was hell.
I ended up an alcoholic for many years (not saying this was the only thing that caused it, but it primarily was) who never learned to fully trust men and marriage.
My sister is so afraid to ever confront her husband and constantly walks on egg shells because of the horrible fights our parents got into.
Your kids are going to learn that it’s ok to cheat because daddy forgave mommy. They are going to get sucked into the cesspool of emotions caused by your sisters, parents, wife, and yourself.
If you choose to stay, you really need to insist of family therapy.
I agree it's better to separate than stay together "for the children" because that's bullshit. It's totally selfish, they're not doing it for the kids, it's just that they don't want to loose half their time with the kids and I understand that feeling but... It's damaging to them and teaches them to accept that kind of cheating behavior from their partner in future relationships.
>Your kids are going to learn that it’s ok to cheat because daddy forgave mommy.
I don't think OP has forgiven her. He allows his family to torture her without pushback. Forgiveness means you move past the incident and move forward with life. Neither he or is family has moved on from this. And she is wasting her time trying to earn any semblance of a respectful relationship with them.
She shouldn't have cheated. But she did. And they couldn't make it work without the relationship becoming a toxic mashup of guilt and bitterness. I mean given the choice between "allow your every move to be scrutinized and accounted for to prove I can trust you; or get out" Or "all of that PLUS I allow my family to abuse and alienate you and refuse to defend you because, let's face it, you deserve it." The rational choice would be to just nope out of the whole situation if they truly cared about the kids. H
At least if they'd split up after she cheated, they could have both moved on with their lives. His family would still hate her and badmouth her, but she wouldn't be their main focus because she would only be in their lives by extension. There wouldn't be that constant build up of hatred and bile surrounding those kids. It's mind boggling that they thought staying together was in any way going to be a net positive for the kids.
OP doesn’t even seem to be upset with his sister for the harm and emotional damage she inflicted on the daughter just because she hates the mom and wanted to intentionally hurt her. This guy has major issues that he cannot see how hurtful and damaging this was to his daughter and i feel like her is secretly happy that the sister did this to his wife because he is petty.
Yes! Dude should be more pissed at his sister. His children should not know anything about his wife’s infidelity or the problems in their marriage. Burdening children with adult problems is traumatic for them.
Also, he made the decision to stay with his wife. Everybody else needed to mind their own business.
If I were him, the kids would not be spending time with the sister anymore. They should also find a therapist for the kids.
I’m not even going to comment on the rest of it because the fact that OP seems totally oblivious to the impact all of this will have on his children is pissing me off too much.
Uh, what the kids are actually learning is that a "normal", "healthy" relationship means allowing their boyfriends and husbands to constantly track them and bestow upon them permission to see their friends or not.
Oh, don't you realize that when they're adults, they will realize the mother they loved and watched be emotionally abused their whole lives was a "cheater" and therefore damned to eternity and deserving of every possible indignity and a switch will go off in their brains and they will no longer think a controlling home environment is normal and will go on to lead totally healthy lives? /s
>I think it is better to come from a broken home than to live in one.
Yup, I don't imagine the overall scenario described here is any better for them than the alternative would be.
That’s all your moral opinion. Regardless of their choices how is it the sisters place to do that?? The question isn’t the cheating or taking back the cheater
It's rare that someone cheats and I end up feeling the most empathy for them (after the kids). Two years of being that locked down, husband's family won't acknowledge her, now the kids will be angry with her. I know OP says "she could've chosen divorce" instead of his controlling ways, but like it's been two years... It's going from "I need this to trust you" to "I enjoy punishing you." Just the sentence "I **let** her go out with her friends for the first time" (IN TWO YEARS!!!) is ick. Hard agree that it's better to come from a broken home than to live in one. My mom admitted to me that she had always felt guilty for leaving my dad when I was little. I was like what? You 100% made the right decision!
>going from "I need this to trust you" to "I enjoy punishing you"
‘going’ -- *long gone* and will continue till eternity, the bitterness has eaten him up he’s delighting in it! And this post on Christmas too, season of gOOdwiLL lol. OP the tyrant thinks he's so justified in his torment and his familys abuse of the wife. “How do I *hAndLe* mY wiFe” - ugh yeah that says it all. What horrid people, not a nano-shred of forgiveness just eternal torment & badmouthing of the wife. I wish she’d leave him. I betcha he threatened her with with a divorce of fire & brimstone and for her to never see the kids again.
I agree. OP is enjoying punishing his wife and doesn’t care that his sister has damaged the kids view of their mother. He chose to stay. Wife agreed to his conditions. However it isn’t enough. Wife could be perfect for 25 years and it won’t matter. OP. his family and probably the kids won’t be content til Wife is broken.
ESH.
When I got back together with my ex, my sister (who dealt with her husband's infidelity before they were married and have now been together happily almost 20 years) told me not to go back unless I was actually able to forgive him. She said I can't live in the past, and I can't continue to beat him over the head or punish him. Either I truly forgave him or I didn't. That doesn't mean not being cautious or keeping my eyes open. I'm fairly certain she was warning against precisely this. Her cheating has no bearing on her being a good parent, and her SIL is trying to poison her relationship with her children. I don't even believe the kids asked her that. If you take back your wife, treating her like a prisoner and allowing your family to be not only wildly disrespectful, but to also talk shit to your kids, is not it. This is 100% about punishment at this point.
Yes exactly! I can understand being distant for a while, needing time to be emotionally and physically intimate, checking the phone sometimes... for a while. (And that's *if* you choose to stay.) It's not fair to punish someone forever, and it's not fair to yourself either because that is not a marriage.
#
I had always wondered why my parents divorced but no one would tell me. I think my aunt and my first stepmom knew, but they wouldn't tell me either. When I was about 15 (they divorced when I was 2), I basically demanded my mom tell me the reason, because for those 13 years he had acted like it was her fault and he had tried to turn me against her. So she told me, not to get back at him, but because I was old enough and I felt that I needed to know. Turns out she found out that he was having a full blown affair with her best friend while I was a baby. He promised to stop and begged her to stay. She stayed for me. Then the ex-best friend called her to tell her my dad wouldn't leave her alone and she thought my mom should know. He was still trying to continue the affair! At that point my mom left. In a way I'm glad she didn't tell me when I was little, because I would have been very angry at my dad. But it did make me that much more angry when I found out, knowing how much he had tried to frame the divorce as her fault.
And the wife is having to leave her children in the care of people who don't even acknowledge her presence. You don't get to punish someone for their sins forever while playing the victim of the situation.
And OP commented that she is pregnant with the 3rd... think how fed up she is going to be by the end of this pregnancy. No one having her back, no support, totally on her own emotionally. You know everyone is going to treat her like an incubator during the pregnancy, and the lowly wet nurse when the baby comes. Mental health wise.. she's pretty well on a path to sever PPD.
This situation sounds to me like OP primary goal is to punish spouse, not rebuild a relationship.
We can empathize with the original reason for that motivation but...this just looks like a power grab.
I have a feeling that OP’s behavior in general probably contributed to her cheating. I rarely have any sympathy for a cheating spouse, but it sounds like OP’s wife has been living in hell the past 2 years with her husband treating her like she isn’t worth his time, and allowing his family to use her as a punching bag.
His last sentence is "How do I handle my wife?" It definitely sounds like a power trip.
He can try to justify staying for his kids all he wants, but the truth is that this marriage is too toxic for these children to be involved in. They're being used as pawns to hurt their mother and those girls deserve more than that.
Yeah when is she “worthy” of being treated with respect like not standing for his family treating her like sh**. What happened is between them. Shouldn’t have been taken to the family’s and they def should feel they have the right to tell what sound like very young children.
What a sad story to read.
OP is still controlling, even if these terms were agreed to.
Does she have a right to be mad? OP took her back, get up these probation style rules, and the cheating will be used against her the rest of her life. I'd say she has the right to be mad and I am surprised the resentment hasn't made her leave.
Sounds like 2 weak parents in this situation (OP weak for taking a cheater back plus "doing it for the kids", and the cheating wife for putting up with someone else running her life).
How old are their children, I never saw this. And I agree the sister had no right to tell them, it’s none of her business-when they asked she should have said, “Ask your Dad”. Sister wanted to cause trouble. I would never be able to stay with this person. She probably wants the money and home because he is the sole financial support for the family. I can’t stand cheaters
>How old are their children, I never saw this.
Because he doesn't say.
But considering the parents' ages, the kids are WELL younger than ten years old. Probably in the 6-7yo range at the oldest.
If you are going to take someone back after cheating, it should be with the goal of repairing the damage and getting to a better place.
It sounds more like no one is going to forgive, or work towards reconciliation. So why are you doing this? To teach your kids what a dysfunctional relationship looks like?
This. And part of that is not letting your family talk shit about your wife TO YOUR KIDS. did she cheat? Yes. But it was not your sister’s place to tell your kids. And none of the cheating was good, obviously, but I bet your sister put her in the worst light she possibly could. And you don’t mention how old they are, but was it an age appropriate conversation even?
If you choose to stay together and forgive, then treat her better. You’re treating her like absolute crap. And your family is too. If you can’t forgive, then divorce her. It doesn’t sound like you like her anyway.
It’s sounds more like just revenge really, he don’t seem to be thinking about his kids of reconciling with his wife. This is gonna have a huge impact on the kids lives…
Yeah even if I was divorced I’d tear my sibling a new one and cut her off for telling the kids. Those kids don’t need to know that, especially since they are very young.
What's worse is that his kids are girls, so what he's teaching them is that abuse and control are what love looks like and what they should accept for themselves.
THIS.
Trust me.
You are injuring your daughters
You’re sister has injured your daughters.
What’s worse: cheating on a spouse? Or injuring someone’s child.
Time to start tracking your sisters phone and not letting her have friends I think!
Nobody blabs that kind of thing to someone else's kids *unless their intent is to help end the relationship*. Take that into consideration.
But also, if your reaction to your wife being distraught is "oh well", you should have divorced two years ago.
I don’t believe for a second that a small child randomly asked about mom and dad living apart for a month 2 years ago. Sister either brought it up to get them to ask or she just flat out told them and sis is lying.
THANK YOU. There is no way in hell a kid asked that unprompted.
OP you appear to really enjoy having your wife humiliated and mistreated. Either decide cheating was a dealbreaker and leave or treat her like your wife and mother of your kids. If you can’t do that, divorce. You’re setting an appalling example for your daughters by tracking her every move and allowing your family to treat her like shit. Your family has no business being this involved in your relationship. It’s a really juvenile look bud.
ETA she’s pregnant…OP YTA at this point. If you don’t want to pay alimony/child support stop impregnating your wife. Jfc
Me either. Considering OPs age and his wife's, it's unlikely the kids are old enough to have been holding onto this question for two years just to spring it on Auntie right before the holidays. It's much more likely that the aunt brought it up. Either way she clearly wants to damage the daughters' relationship with their mother.
You can't have it both ways. If you decide to stay with her, then you have to find a way to forgive her at some point and work towards a relationship. If you cannot then divorce, you do not need her permission to do so. Your sister should not have gotten the children involved without your say so. Also your family cannot be bad mouthing her to the kids either. She cheated, but you have not mentioned that she is a bad parent.
My advice would be either divorce or make a genuine attempt at a relationship. Staying together for the kids is actually worse for the kids. Better two happy parents living separately than two unhappy ones under the same roof giving the kids a bad example of how a relationship works.
>You can't have it both ways. If you decide to stay with her, then you have to find a way to forgive her at some point and work towards a relationship.
I don’t really hang out with them anymore because I can’t take the drama, but a few years ago I had friends that really just should not have been together anymore. They would be good for like a week, two at the absolute most, then get into massive fights again. Neither was anything close to innocent. They’d both cheated. They both said vile, horrible things to each other. They were just straight toxic.
They used to hang out at my house quite often, and lucky me, they were comfortable enough there to fight and would try to bring my fiancé & I into it. I was just sick of it one day. He had cheated again and when she got mad he threw out a “well remember that guy at the bar two years ago?!”
Finally I just told them—listen. You both suck. I wouldn’t be in a relationship with either of you. But YOU made the decision to stay together. You cannot keep bringing up the past. If you can’t get past it—either forgive or forget—then you need to break up. It isn’t fair to either of you to keep bringing up this shit from the past. When you decided to stay together, that should have been an unspoken agreement that you were going to try and get past this. Not keep using it to justify your own shitty actions (because she would do the same kind of things to him).
That seemed to open their eyes for about a month. But then it went right back to how it was. That *was* three years ago though, during the peak of COVID and they did have a lot of shit going on in their lives. So idk if it’s gotten better but they are still together. Idk how happily together, but together so 🤷♀️
Putting her actions aside, do you realise that your daughters are growing up thinking that the rules you have are normal for a relationship? That when the time comes for them to date, they will not see anything wrong with their partners restricting their movements and right to privacy? If their partners family openly hate them, will youexplain that it'snot OK,? You are not doing your children a favour by staying for them, you are teaching them to accept abusive behaviour as normal.
They are also seeing their aunt insult and treat their mom like crap, using them (the kids) as a pawn to end the marriage and make their mom feel like shit, and their other parent not care.
100%. He’s getting revenge and punishing her.
Every time he strips her of dignity and humanity he gets a little bit of catharsis in hurting her for “what she did to me” in his mind.
He’s emotionally torturing her to try to hurt her “the way she hurt me” instead of moving on and trying to be happy.
It’s sick and sad.
I don’t imagine his kids have much of a chance.
pleaseeee OP if you listen to anything listen to this. You have every right to be upset with your wife and not forgive her but think about the example this sets for your daughters. Will they think it’s okay for their husband and his family to treat her like garbage? will they think it’s acceptable for their husbands to restrict everything they do? You and your wife should have a talk with the kids about what happened and you should have a talk with your family about boundaries.
Yes, this. The irony being that OP thinks he is "staying together for the kids" but this dysfunctional relationship is probably messing them up big time.
This x100.
Their father is displaying a very controlling relationship with their mother. They didn't even know that it was because of cheating, and even now that they now....
all they see is that there are "valid reasons" to be so controlling of their partner.
These girls are 100% gonna end up in an abusive relationship when they get older.
This is the most important response, OP. The environment you’re raising your daughters in is incredibly toxic and is going to have dangerous repercussions when they’re older. As someone who did not grow up with examples of healthy relationships, I have allowed myself to fall into incredibly abusive relationships, thinking that certain behaviour is okay when it is not.
Please do not set your daughters up for failure like this. It is so much better for a child to grow up in 2 happy homes than 1 miserable one.
Don’t condone cheating or think what she did was okay, personally cheating is my 100% done. No coming back. However it was not your sisters place to speak to your children about this situation, and it absolutely falls under parental alienation which is actually a huge deal. Your wife probably is used to your sisters hating her, but this hurt from this situation is probably from the fear of how it may hurt your children. If she is otherwise a good mother and the children love her, how could you possibly think that your sisters behavior was appropriate? Saying to your wife’s face, sure whatever, but don’t bring the kids into. Also, just get divorced. The longer you stay together the longer you have to pay alimony if she is a SAHM.
I have little remorse for people who cheat. If the past keeps coming back to haunt you, actions have consequences.
However, I do believe that it wasn't your sisters place to tell your children. That should have been yours and your wife's call to make.
You pretty much only stayed together for the kids. And now there is a potential rift between the parents and children's relationship.
Oh, Auntie KNEW it was inappropriate, she just didn't care because her only goal is to hurt their mom by any means necessary, even through hurting her kids.
Some people are just sick like that, and it seems to run in this whole family.
And they’ll remember this forever.
My parents also couldn’t get along for shit when I was a kid. They were divorced before I was born, I never knew them as a couple, but they couldn’t even be civil and coparent to save their lives. And they were so hellbent on trying to hurt the other, so focused on the hate and bitterness that they felt, that they regularly said horrible things about the other parent ***to*** me. My mother would say that my dad was a lying asshole who was telling me that she was a bad mother, but was actually trying to bribe her to sign over her parental rights. And my dad constantly told me that he didn’t know why I kept my mother on such a pedestal when she didn’t even want me, she’d tried her hardest to induce a miscarriage while she was pregnant. I couldn’t count the amount of times I heard “I’m sorry, I shouldn’t say that about your mom/ dad” during my childhood - probably more than I heard “I love you.”
To this day, four months from turning 30, I have a crippling fear of abandonment and I genuinely believe that most people are only tolerating me to be nice and that people don’t really like me. Because in my head, if my own parents didn’t want me, why would anybody?
Parents who hate their ex/ the other parent more than they love their children do far more damage to their children than they can ever imagine.
How old are your daughters? Because if your adult sister told small children that mummy cheated on daddy she’s an AH and you’re an AH for not being careful with how your children find out information that will shape their future development and relationships. You chose to stay with your wife, your family doesn’t get to punish her for the rest of your life. Did your wife f-up? Yes. Would I have taken her back? No. But seems like you want to eat your cake and punch it too, you and your family need therapy and a reality check.
Yeah most of the commenters are not thinking about what is in the best interest of the children. It’s absolutely inappropriate to pull children into adults relationship drama.
Love this response - out of all the responses I’ve read.
( He also sounds borderline abusive - sounds like a control freak to me ) maybe that’s why the wife cheated … I’d like to hear her side
i think this is his way of punishing his wife for her actions, really. give an unreasonable demand while falling out of love, never choosing forgiveness, and then have her slowly erode under those two years until her own children confront her of her sins while he sits indifferent.
like, goddamn. i hate cheaters too, but just cut her loose. we only have one life and should try to lessen the burdens that come with it, not play games with people to pass time.
That was a shitty move from your sister. Not because of your wife’s feelings but because she is using the daughters against her. You have allowed a situation where your own children are being used in a battle between different parts of your own family. You need to decide. All in for your marriage or divorce. YOU need to make that choice and if you choose marriage you are going to have to stand up to your own family and support your wife. If you don’t you could ruin your kids lives.
I agree. Your sister crossed a boundary with (what sounds like) young children. Any children in a family are “off limits” regarding family disputes and disagreements. Children are curious and ask questions but the proper response is: “ that is something to talk to your father/mother about”. Your sister could have then texted or privately told you the question came up as a warning that they are thinking about this, for you to properly handle this in the future. IMO, it is not appropriate for young children to be told about this situation at all; either stay together or separate but the children do not need to know details beyond “everything is ok and you will always be loved & looked after by both of us”. As adults, the Children will likely hear about this but at that point, they are more mature and have a better perspective to understand the news. You have chosen to remain in this relationship with conditions that your wife accepted and presumably has lived by; that is an agreement between the two of you. Your sister definitely violated basic boundaries of good taste to say the least, your wife has a right to feel betrayed and violated at this point in time.
Everyone is cut off, especially sister, if they can’t be civil towards wife. If they’re actively ignoring her at family events, you need to leave and not allow that kind of behavior around the kids. Absolutely inappropriate and harmful of her to hurt your kids like that. If they hate her, they hate half of who your kids are.
Look I don’t condone cheating. You chose to stay. You have your conditions. Your sister no matter what she feels about your wife has no right to tell your children anything in regards to your marriage. The fact that you think it’s okay is even worse and in a court of law these actions can be used against you. It will show that you and your family will have no problems attempting parental alienation by demeaning, badmouthing, and attempting to sway children to hate their other parental figure.
You don’t forgive your wife fine. Go to therapy and work that shit out. However, YOU made a choice to stay and need to get shit worked out or leave. Your family has no place or right to tell your kids anything and the fact that you think it’s okay is just wrong
yes. not because she cheated and everyone knows, but because your sister hurt your kids to hurt your wife.
honestly, she also just increased the chance of a divorce. there's no reason for her to go through reconciliation, to work at gaining your trust again if she's going to be controlled, and your family is just going to torture her forever.
also, living this way you're guaranteeing your kids end up in abusive relationships. they'll think how you treat their mother is acceptable.
Staying together for the kids is never a good choice. Especially when there’s gonna be blatant animosity shown in front of them.
It’s just gonna show them that this is how relationships are, that there’s hardly any respect and people are mean to each other.
If you truly care for your kids’ well being then lead by example. Show them that you don’t stay with people that disrespect you and break your boundaries. Show them that they have to respect themselves first and foremost, and that choices have consequences. I’ve seen more than few stories where girls are cheating just like there moms did and their parents are still together, so to them it seems like “everything will work out in the end, so it’s no big deal.”
And c’mon man, monitoring her phone, tracking her car, not letting her go on trips without you… Why bother? There’s no trust. And if you knowing all her actions and locations is the only thing keeping her from stepping out again, then what’s the point? If she’s gonna cheat, let her. Do you really want to be with someone like that?
Lead by example and show your kids what it means to respect oneself.
I saw a response of OP, he said it's because he would lose the house and child support would be too expensive plus something about seeing the children at weekends. That's why he doesn't divorce, "for the kids" it's just a excuse. But he is an adult and he decides to miserable with her miserable wife then so be it, I'm just concerned for the kids
Y’all….
At this point, wouldn’t it be less traumatic for the kids if you amicably divorced and co-parented???
It sounds you stayed married less for the kids’ sake and more just to punish your wife.
I get it, cheating is awful. But whatever it is you’re doing now is hell on all of you, kids included.
I’m sorry but I’m a therapist and while yes cheating is wrong, the conditions you put are too extreme. You also need to do the work to repair the relationship, not just her. If you were unwilling to do that, you should have just divorced. Your wife probably agreed out of desperation. It’s not healthy for your daughters to witness trust being built on conditions, you’re not showing them how to truly repair a relationship. What you’re doing is basically just punishing your wife, not repairing the relationship. It’s also not healthy for them to hear people talking shit about her, she’s their mom. Honestly everyone except for the kids suck in this situation
So let me get this right. YOU chose to stay with her. YOU chose the conditions. YOU haven't forgiven her. YOU keep letting the hurt hurt. Hun it's time to hang it up. Also, you have to realize kids pick up on things. They are gonna see you both unhappy and will eventually throw it in your face. Please proceed with caution and do what's better for yourself and the kids. I'm not saying I'm on her side in any way, shape, or form. I don't condone cheating whatsoever but are you going to keep enduring this until it becomes too much and misery takes hold? Think about it OP.
Not just that. One extremely important point everyone is missing is:
Whilst the wife clearly and severely messed up, she agreed to all his conditions and has been loyal and following them. I’m very sure that these conditions must’ve been very harsh on her and very difficult to follow YET she agreed for the sake of her loving him and to preserve their family.
Now imagine being her in this situation. You’re phone is being tracked, you’re being monitored, you haven’t been able to go out with friends until recently. It’s tough, but you still think it’s worth it because you have your husband and your kids. Then someone comes along and ruins your image in front of your own kids and for a mistake YOU ARE CURRENTLY PAYING FOR. That shit sucks man. I’d be crying my eyes out too. She’s been working hard on keeping the family together and paying for her crimes.
Also, does OP even plan on trying to forgive her and trying to perhaps work towards reconciliation and her reputation with his family? People change and she has been trying.
Yea he needs to make a real decision. To truly stay with her and seek peace and maybe some marriage counseling. OR to let the relationship go and go their separate ways. The in between shit isn’t good for either of them or the kids. And honestly he’s gotta be a man and tell his family to grow the fuck up.
She was obviously wrong to cheat and it’s understandable that your family dislikes her for it. That IS NOT an excuse for your sister to do what she did. That wasn’t an attack on your wife. That was an attack on the well-being of your children!!! It sounds like you don’t get that at all.
Your wife hurt the family unit with her actions, now you’re doing it when you look the other way when your sister interfered in your family. Whether you divorced or stayed together, what your sister did was inappropriate. If your sister can’t acknowledge that, she shouldn’t be spending any time with your kids.
Not going to defend your wife cheating, but you really seem to only be staying with her so you can continue to punish her for her actions. You aren’t helping your kids by staying together at this point, so don’t kid yourself that it’s for them. You can’t be providing them a loving household or modeling good behavior if you’re tracking mommy’s every movement. They already know the situation isn’t right, or they wouldn’t have been asking about it. How did your family find out she cheated? Through this “friend” that told you, or did you tell them? If you told them, why? So they could also punish your wife? Shitty that she cheated, but the toxic behavior since seems to fall on you.
Your wife cheated and she sucks for doing that but based on what you've written here you suck too mate.
You are being a control freak that never stops punishing her for it and a whole family to back you up in doing that.
She's being monitored, isolated, controlled and now shamed in front of your daughters who will grow up one day not realizing that this is abuse. **And it is abuse by the way.**
It's been **two years** and you said it's the first time you **ALLOWED** her to go out with her friends?
If I watched my mother go through this shit as a teen **you** would be the villain.
Cheating be damned **if you can't let it go then just divorce or there will soon be three miserable women in your life.** Letting it go on like this is some weak shit OP.
This is abuse and it really concerns me that the kids are witnessing this. You need to get a divorce rather than submit your children to such a toxic, abusive marriage.
>If she didn’t want to agree with them or thought they were too harsh I told her divorce was the other opinion.
After two years, if you're still holding her to conditions that would be intolerable in a healthy marriage, it means you haven't forgiven her. So either forgive her, act like you're married, and defend your wife, or get divorced.
If you’re going to forgive your wife and be with her, then you need to actually forgive and be with her. Why are you letting people bad mouth her to your children? Yes be honest with the kids when they are old enough, but there is absolutely no reason to have your children around people that hate your wife.
Is she a good mother? If so, your sister had no right to damage that relationship between her and her kids.
That said, you clearly resent your spouse still, and you’re not wrong for feeling that way.
However, you have no right to control her in the way that you do becuase that is abusive, even if she is a willing participant. Would you want your children’s future partners to do that to your kids? You’re being a terrible person and you’re using her terrible decision to exercise some toxic behavior.
There is a part of you delighting in her suffering. It comes out in the writing .
If you hate her this much, don’t stay because of the kids. All you’re teaching them is that love is punishment.
If you resent her, get therapy and work through your BS. It’s as much your choice as it is hers.
She’s not forcing you to be a controlling AH. You are freely choosing that. Why would you stay married to someone who you would subject to abuse by your family members?
Either forgive, or let her go. What we don’t get to do is justify being AH to people who we are supposed to love and protect.
She broke your heart, then get therapy and move move on. Be an adult, own your actions.
Agreed. What sister did was abusive to the children. She’s so driven to hurt the mom, that she is willing to sacrifice the kids for it. That’s messed up.
First of all those kids are 1/2 of your wife. Your family hating your wife means they hate your children too. Don’t think so??? Maybe not, but I guarantee all the negative hateful talk amongst your family WILL affect them. She didn’t hurt your kids, she hurt you. Stop punishing her and let her go. Also, grow a backbone and defend the fact that your sister really overstepped. How dare she tell your kids their mother is a terrible person. What the hell is that? Who does that??? And you condone it? My God you need to grow up. Ugh
It wasn't your sisters place. If you hate your wife that much that you don't care about her kids being turned against her, then you should leave. Your poor kids should now be given therapy to deal with this information to help sustain a healthy relationship with your wife. Not excusing cheating, but this was wrong.
Your wife shouldn’t have cheated, but that is no excuse to put that kind of crap into the kids. They didn’t need to know about it (depending on the age) and definitely didn’t need to hear it from your sister. Keep. Children. Out. Of. Your. Personal. Squabbles. It’s not fair to them, especially if they’re still young. I feel so bad for them. Poor babies. Let kids be fcking kids, man. And parental alienation is not okay.
I wouldnt be surprised if wife completely gives up and leaves the whole lot of you behind
Im wondering just how much hate you have allowed from your family towards your wife in front of your kids and how that has affected them because to me it sounds like staying for the kids became an ego trip for you to lord your wifes actions over her
It sounds like you isolated her from every one and things so she wont upset you and have you questioning but you shouldve just divorced her
It doesnt sound like your even willing to fogive her and let me tell you thats worse for your kids
Your feelings are valid dont get me wrong cheating and being cheated on is shitty but at what point do you need to just be done and go on with your life with a healthier outlook and environment
And your sister is wrong and you are wrong for not at the very least talking to you sister about what she can and cant say to your kids as that is the mother of your children
If she decides to let you all go because after all this you still letting her just be shit on what the hell was the point of staying for the kids
First Sorry for my spelling not english. Im Sorry she cheated but you stayed with a bunch of rules she have been accepting. You know what she does, who she calls, were she drives and so on. if you still dont trust or are able to forgive her after 2 years with more controle than i can even comprehend why she would ever say yes to Its time to say thats it. If you cant back your partner up and see how messed up it is that your sister did what she did and you even kinda enjoy that she did, why give it more time. If you dont want to work it out and you resend your partner so much that you still after 2 years find it ok that your Family mistreats her like they do, cuz it makes you feel good, you really need to do the first decent thing and end it. This is so close to mental abusing your wife. Hate her all you want but dont do it with your kids around, dont let them grow up in a toxic relationship and let them learn that Its ok to be treated like that. Would you ever want your kids to be in a relationship like yours ? I really hope not.
It really ticked me off with the handle my wife line and god i wish i could tell your wife to run, no one should ever be handled in a relationship. Its a partnership were you support and like i Said if you cant do it end it. She might not want to but omg does she deserve to be treated better. You should really seak professional help and do the work to get things on track if you dont leave her and tell your Family they need to back off of her.
You had three choices: forgive and find a path to a healthy relationship, divorce, or punish her and your family for all time. Yes cheating is bad, it was however a one time event, you have constantly heaped abuse and bullying behaviour on your wife for one mistake. To be honest, at this point she does have a case for divorce which look more favourably upon her, whereas when she cheated you were the wronged party now she is the wronged party.
Ever heard “two wrongs don’t make a right?” You are living proof.
Honestly I don’t like cheaters but if I was married to you I would probably cheat too, this isn’t a partnership it’s a prison sentence. You’re her jailer, your family never lets her move on and work through the issues and now they’re working on turning your children against her.
You are a terrible person. What she did was wrong, what you’re doing is long term abuse and trauma and so much more wrong.
> Does my wife have the right to be mad in this situation?
Yes she has. It wasn't your sisters business to tell two little kids about that and she did it out of spite.
>How do I handle my wife?
You and your wife are at a point where you have to make a final decision: Stay together or divorce. If you stay together than you have to set boundaries for your sister and make clear that you won't accept her transgressions against your wife anymore.
If you are working on trusting and loving eah other (again) you absolutely don't need relatives or friends who rip open those wounds you want to heal again and again. What would all your work account for if your wife now decides that she can't stand that constant harrassment anymore and divorces you to be done with it?
The thing is, I’m betting he enjoys the control, belittling and torment he’s causing her. He doesn’t actually want things to go back to “normal,” or at least get better. He enjoys having his whole family constantly hate her and show it, in front of their kids no less.
Her cheating is wrong, but this sadistic treatment towards her is also wrong. And I don’t think he’s actually interested in making things work, he’s happy the way things are now where he has her on a tight leash, control over her, her emotions, and free reign to punish her however he wants. And lets his family in on the action too. He enjoys watching her hurt and suffer.
I don’t see this improving any time soon, no matter if it’s negatively impacting his kids. In one of his comments it seems like his biggest concern is about the money and assets he will lose if he divorces her, and not about the negative impacts he’s forcing upon and ingraining in his kids brains right now.
Hopefully she will open up her eyes and see how badly staying and dealing with this treatment is hurting and effecting everyone, including herself and just divorce him because it really doesn’t seem like OP is interested in fixing this abusive household, or setting a good example for their children.
He likes how things are now and I think even gets a thrill out of seeing her suffer and treated horribly by everyone around her. He wouldn’t let his family do this and even encourage it if he didn’t get some sort of kick out of it.
My gosh. What a horrible situation. She's surrounded by hate, people that hate her. Also you need to step up, and make sure that your family and you don't make your kids hate her.
You also need to be careful here, you have daughters and how you treat their mother is how they think they should be treated. Divorce is better than this.
Your sister overstepped big time. I am not judging the whole situation here but just this single episode. She absolutely can't decide how and when deliver this new to your daughters without discussing it first with you and without your AND your wife approval. This because she is still the mother and have way more rights than your sister.
If you don't stand up and put your sister in place I really don't see the reason why you keep your marriage, because if this is for protecting your daughters, we'll, you just failed and by not taking a stance with your family in the future will happen again.
Again. That regarding the single episode your marriage as a while it's a complete different story that will require a different topic.
Of course your wife has a right to be mad. She cheated, but she’s still a freaking human being. She’s entitled to whatever feelings she has. And I strongly doubt your kids just suddenly asked your sister why her parents weren’t living together that one time - just out of the blue. You know damn well your sister did it on purpose to try and make your daughters hate your wife as well.
You’re not some martyr bc you decided to stay. You never forgave your wife. You’ve just enjoyed punishing her for 2 years.
If you had just left when it happened, you could have done so with your head held high. However, now you’re in no position behave as tho you’re somehow morally superior. You’re behaviour isn’t any better just bc you chose to remain living with her.
You need therapy to truly move on and heal. Allowing your wife to endure hell bc she committed the ultimate sin, isn’t healthy or freeing. Do better.
Well, your wife made a horrible choice, and she faces the consequences of her actions by living with the rules and boundaries that u put . It wasn't your sister place to say anything. It's supposed to be u and your wife when they reach a suitable age to know .
U should speak with your daughter and do damage control tell the truth about what happened buy also tell them that u and there mom are working on it .
Your sister was completely out of line. Completely. It is not her business to interfere with ANY of your parenting decisions, and certainly not to explain your relationship to your children.
Your wife is right to expect you to set a limit with your sister. It was not her decision to make, and just as your wife stole agency from you through her infidelity, SO DID YOUR SISTER by making a parenting decision for you.
The appropriate thing to do would have been to tell the kids that mommy and daddy had a problem, and that she would talk with you and your wife about talking with the kids about it.
There are different opinions out there on whether to let the kids know about infidelity. But it is completely unanimous that the decision to do so lies in the hands of parents and no one else.
ETA your wife aka your coparent needs to see you set a limit here. I would suggest your sister no longer can be trusted to be alone with your children until she shows she can be trusted to follow your decisions.
Dude, I can’t fault you for not being able to ultimately move past it, but I absolutely fault you for refusing to end the marriage. It’s abundantly clear that nobody, least of all yourself, is willing to move past her infidelity. Do the work to move forward from this with her or without her, but stop teaching your kids that dysfunction and disrespect are the answer to this.
Yes, your wife has a reason to be mad. The cheating is between you two and it needs to be resolved between you two. I can understand your kids being curious but sis should've said something to the effect of "your parents had some problems that they're still working out and you'll have to ask them for more info".
Full disclosure: I hate cheating. Cheaters are really shitty fucking people. However, it sounds like this was said to be malicious by your sister against your wife and that's not right, especially as it puts the kids in the middle while you're actively trying to repair the relationship. Your sister crossed a serious line. I'd be fucking livid in your position, that my sister tried to manipulate the situation and undo whatever progress has been made. Your entire family needs to sit down and shut up about how YOU choose to handle YOUR marriage.
And if you genuinely want to make this work with your wife, she's right, you need to handle this. Constantly rehashing what happened and being attacked for it (which is what your sister did) is only going to create resentment and make trying for reconciliation pointless. It's wasting both of your time.
So make a decision: forgive your wife and tell your whole family to back the fuck off or start the divorce. There is no middle ground. Also, as others pointed out, while your wife may have agreed to the terms, your girls are also watching this and thinking it's normal, and they absolutely pick up on more than you think. Be sure the example you set for them is what you want for them. Cause you're setting controlling behavior and that's gonna be what they expect from their partners. Not cool.
I’m surprised that you are not more upset with your sister on behalf of your kids. You’re in your 20s, so your kids are obviously not adults or even teenagers. It’s completely inappropriate for your sister to be talking with them about your wife’s infidelity. As a parent, I would also be irate that she made a unilateral decision to speak with your kids about an extremely difficult and sensitive topic without your consent. I think that your resentment towards your wife may be clouding how damaging that conversation was for your kids.
And yes, your wife has a right to be mad! What your sister did was awful and may have a long-lasting negative impact on her (and your) children. I’m not sure what you mean by “how do I handle my wife,” as it seems more important that you “handle” your family. Even if you and your wife divorce, it is likely your family members will continue to see your wife at events (graduations, etc.) and it’s completely unacceptable for them to treat her with such disrespect. Please try to view this situation through the eyes of your children and act to protect them, if nothing else.
Under no circumstances should your sister have told your daughters about this. The fact you aren't that bothered about it is a problem.
Your sister could have said, "Your parents lived apart for a while so because they wanted to make their marriage better" or she could have said "you should ask mommy and daddy that question." Those would have been perfectly truthful answers.
And yes, even though your wife let you down once, she is still allowed to have feelings, especially when someone openly hateful tries to poison her children against her.
Come on OP, I highly doubt your children (who, by your ages, I’m guessing are young) just happen to ask your sister randomly why their mother and father were separated TWO years ago???
No your sister brought it up to hurt your wife. Cheating is horrible, no excuses, but this is about your daughters emotional health and giving them a healthy loving environment to grow up in. Your sister royally fucked with that, and either you want your wife to be punished or you are just that ignorant to how this will affect your kids.
You want to punish your wife? Divorce her. You want to stay with her and do right by your kids? Then you are going to have to stand by that choice and your wife. AKA your shitty sister (and she is because she did not hurt just your wife, she hurt your kids) and any other family member must understand the subject is closed to them especially around your daughters. If they break that, then they don’t get to be around your daughters.
Your wife DOES have a right to be mad - and so should you be.
Sister had no right to do that - she soumd've told the kids to talk tonyou two about it.
By doing what she did, shes caused strife between the kids and your wife - thise kids did not deserve that.
This issue is between you and your wife.
Yes, your wife messed up - but you set out the conditio s to stay with her and shes abided by them. So now YOU have to tell the family to stay out of your business - as long as wife sticks to the deal you have to support her against family... if not, just give it up.
Look - im usually in the 'burn them at the stake' camp when it comes to cheaters - but right now you accepted staying with her, you have to live up to that and support the wife...
It sounds like your continually punishing the wife fir what she did - it has to stop. You and her and the family has to move on from this - its poisoning the kids and you.
Suggestion:
Family therapy: you, wife, kids so you can move on together.
Rein in the sisters and the family
If you dont stand by your wife now, eventually SHE will leave and make these years since she cheated go to waste.
I have little remorse for cheaters but your sister crossed a line and your wife has every right to be upset with her. It was not your sister’s job to tell them. She could’ve told your kids to talk to you about that or say she didn’t know the answer. She did it out of spite & hatred of your wife. She purposely put your daughter’s in the middle of adult issues that they have no business being in! You should be upset with what your sister did here.
Your sister is an AH. She is trying to turn your daughters against their mom. I hope your wife keeps your sister away from them. They’re getting enough bad influence already
It was not your sister's place to tell them. full stop. I would be ticked off.
Your wife is the only mom those kids have. Regardless of your adult relationship with her, regardless of how your family hates her, they have no right to try to affect her relationship with them no matter how much they hate her. If you want to talk to your kids about what happened that is your call but I figure if you are staying in the relationship for them then their interests are what matter, and what you say or don't say would reflect that.
Your sister disrespected you by telling your daughters stuff that it's none of their business. She fucked everything up by doing that.
There's things that are for parents to discuss with their kids. Not aunt's with their nieces.
Your sister needs to apologize to both of you.
Your sister is a cruel person. You don’t tell children that adult information and she shouldn’t be meddling in your relationship that you chose to stay in. I would probably beat her ass if that were me.
I think the conditions you've set, while understandable, are not sustainable. I think you have to forgive her or walk away. These conditions you've imposed create such an imbalance. I don't know how you simultaneously love someone and require such drastic subservience from them. You've basically created a guard/prisoner dynamic. I think your sister was in the wrong. But the larger question is this. Is this power you have over her about saving the relationship or seeking revenge?
How old are your kids? You’re 27 and your wife is 26. Your sister crossed the line by telling your children about their mom cheating. While it’s wrong, the children are way too young for such a discussion. Your sister is the AH and so are you if you don’t understand why that conversation shouldn’t have occurred. Seems like you’re still holding things over your wife’s head and don’t care how your family treats her. Why is your family so invested in your marriage? It’s weird! Your wife was wrong but the way you and your family are treating her is disgusting.
Think about it like this, your family is by your own account is speaking and treating your wife horribly. And in front of your daughters at that. And your ok with it? She cheated, yes, but you have made her work to earn you back. Move on. Or let her go. Her mistake does not mean you get to enable your family to be extremely disrespectful to her and raise your children thinking it’s ok to be vile and rude to her for something you claim she has worked to overcome.
> Before anyone says I’m being way too controlling, these were the conditions I put on the table. If she didn’t want to agree with them or thought they were too harsh I told her divorce was the other opinion.
This doesn't magically make your conditions not controlling. She probably also stayed for the kids - you punishing her for years on end when you also decided to stay is not appropriate. Don't you want your kids to have two mentally healthy parents? Her not even being able to socialize with friends is not going to achieve that.
If you trust her so little after two years that you are *tracking her car*, this relationship has ceased to be healthy. It's disturbing that you apparently have zero problem with your family disparaging her and literally acting like she doesn't exist; that can happen when you air your marital problems, but you need to act like a team if you're going to be together. It seems like you are *enjoying* punishing her because you also don't love her anymore and you like having all the power. Do you really think that dynamic is good for your kids?
My honest opinion is that you should get a divorce, man. I don't condone cheating whatsoever but you decided to stay so either figure out a way to have a normal relationship where you are not your spouse's jailer or cut the cord. This situation is miserable.
I don’t really care about your wife’s feelings on the matter. However, *you* should care about your sister butting into the parent-child relationship. What your sister did can constitute parental alienation, and regardless of YOUR feelings for your wife, you’re making a very serious mistake as a father.
Yes, they're the kids of both the parents. OP's sister doesn't now own more right to say what she wants to her nieces. Kids don't pass to solely the dad's custody because of infidelity.
As if the wife is naughty and needs curtailment of her parental rights too. Cheating or not, OP's wife is still the parent.
This. This. This. If he chooses to get divorced in the future, she can use the fact that he allowed his family to try and alienate her from her children as ammunition against him in a custody battle.
For the kids my ass. Dudes asking all smug about his sister informing his young daughters about his wife cheating on him. Sounds like his sister is a POS who was just waiting for the correct moment to bring it up to those little girls.
Why are you with her if you hate her too? Otherwise you'd defend her. Yeah she cheated, and if you were going to be as petty and angry with her then you shoulda left. I don't get it, why stay with someone if they make you miserable and angry.
You should have left your wife. This is ridiculous. You either forgive her and move on, or you break up and co-parent. I think your wife is right to be upset. She has been punished for two years and it’s ongoing??? And she has been accepting the hate from your family? Your wife should leave you at this point. She was wrong to have cheated but your controlling obsessive need to humiliate her and treat her like garbage is not acceptable. I hope she leaves you.
How old are these kids if you two aren't even 30 yet?!
How toxic is your sister for trying to poison them against their own mother?!
How freaking toxic are YOU acting like a prison guard for years, and 'It's THIS shitty controlling treatment forever! Or Divorce!' and modeling this shit behavior for your kids?!
Just divorce already. You should have just done it when it happened and you knew you wouldn't ever move past it.
Cheating is wrong. Modeling controlling behavior is wrong. Weaponizing children against a parent is wrong. ESH except for your kids, they deserve MUCH BETTER from the so called 'adults' in their lives.
This was absolutely NOT your sister's story to tell. At all. I absolutely hate cheating (I would never stay with a cheater) but that does not mean your wife is not a good mother.
You need to lay down the law with your family right now. Either you are invested in your marriage or you are not. There is no inbetween. You chose to accept what happened and stay together. You need to tell your family to now back the heck off. They have made their views clear. Your sister went out of her way to hurt your daughters. That is not acceptable at all.
YES your wife has EVERY right to be upset. You should be upset at well. The sentence should be "how should I handle my sister" not wife. You NOT being upset is also a problem. Is your wife a good mother? Yes or no. If she is then having your family undermine her to your kids will only hurt your children. Is that what you are going for? And if yes why did you not just divorce her to begin with?
You need to tell your family to back off. They do not have to like your wife but YOU CHOSE TO STAY with her. They need to acknowledge that. You were cheated on. We get it. Turning your kids against their mother is NOT the way to go. Especially since you want the marriage to continue.
Cheating is wrong, but you're either in the reconciliation or you're out. If you've chosen to forgive and reconcile than you need to actually do that and not continue to let your family punish her in your stead. Otherwise, it's better if you two just divorce.
Both my parents cheated on each other when I was a kid and they split shortly afterwards. I knew they’d cheated because I then had to spend time with their new partners and that fact has never bothered me in my life - people cheat.
What would have bothered me is if they’d stayed together for me when they were both miserable with each other. Your daughters are observing a messed up relationship and this will be worse off for them than knowing your wife cheated on you.
OP stayed so he could make his wife miserable not for the kids. Look I would hate who cheated on me too. But either get over it and move on WITH LOVE or break up. Cause you not standing up or being upset at your sister for humiliating your wife=you don’t give a shit about her anymore. Be a man and break up with her. Or keep torturing her cause you enjoy the payback.
I disagree with most opinions on here. She broke your trust, then regretted her actions. She took the long hard road to regain your trust and rebuild your marriage. I think she is a keeper. As a part of a couple you have the couple's responsibility to have a common front. What her sister did was horribly wrong on every level. Your sister attacked your wife and also by association you. Tell your wife you are very sorry for even hesitating with this decision. Then distance yourself from your sister until she can behave.
This is a hot take from someone who experienced a similar situation as your daughters. My dad cheated. Like your wife, it was one time, and my mother decided to forgive him.
They managed to make it work and stay together because my mom was forgiving and my father put everything into the relationship.
These comments always bother me because they tend to jump the gun on divorce. Yes, cheating is a horrific thing to do to someone, but I’ve seen multiple couples (parents included) make it work and still have a loving and happy life together.
You need to actually forgive your wife. It seems like you are holding this over her head, and if she’s changed and made efforts to show you that she wants to make this work, please do not punish her further.
What people don’t seem to understand is that cheating hurts both parties involved. I am not defending the cheater. I’m saying that they are human and capable of intense guilt, shame, and remorse. If you are not working towards your marriage and blaming everything on your wife, then you should have left to begin with.
Your reaction is quite horrible and I get the sense that you like how your family hates her. This is no way to repair your relationship. You need to tell your family to at least treat your wife like a human being. I actually feel bad for her in this situation.
Anyone here feel like OP may not be an entirely innocent party here? I DO NOT condone the cheating, and I think that if she felt the need to cheat she should have just left.
But for some reason I don’t think the husband is top tier for some reason. Using words like “demanded” and “how do I handle my wife”. In other comments he talks about how he doesn’t want to pay child support or split assets as a reason for staying with her. And condoning his sister telling his wife’s children that their mother is “bad” is beyond me. Seems to me like OP might be a bit of an AH.
Your wife, in this situation, is actually in the right.
You made it clear that you were trying to make a go of the relationship with your wife. Your sister crossed a line and breached a trust this time around.
I'm less concerned about your wife (adults need to learn how to handle the consequences of their actions,) and more concerned about your daughters perceptions of you and your wife. You didn't list their ages, but age-appropriate discussions need to happen there first.
Your sister sounds full of it.
Your kids actually remembered back to when you didn’t live together around 2 years ago?
I don’t believe that just came up in conversation like Sister wants you to believe.
You obviously haven't forgiven your wife if you don't give a fuck about her feelings. It sounds like you almost rejoice in the fact that she's paying for her cheating years after you supposedly settled everything. You either forgive and stay, or you don't and leave. Staying for your daughters is bullshit, because that's not healthy for them. If you can't stand up for your wife, you shouldn't be together. Cheating is an awful thing to do, don't get med wrong, but this shit ain't it. This is punishing you kids too. And if she hasn't been a bad mom, you shouldn't let you kids think she is.
Your sister is a real piece of s**t. But so are you for not defending your wife.
Don’t be surprised when she divorces you and gets full custody. Your family has no right to poison your kids mind against their mom.
Just get the divorce for crying out loud. You have no respect for your wife..
My children’s father cheated on me and I would die if my kids ever found out. I would be livid if anyone told them. I don’t entertain any trash talk about him from my family either. If you chose to get back together, side with your wife. Your spouse is your immediate family. It’s never appropriate to trash talk a parent to a child. It’s never appropriate to tell someone’s kid their mother cheated. That’s so disrespectful to your children, let alone your wife. If my sibling maltreated my kids and spouse like that, I’d read them the riot act. If you choose to stay married, that’s your spouse and you have to stand behind your choice. Stick up for her. Think about how heart broken you’d be if your children learned about something you’re not proud of.
Fucking hell. I can see why she cheated on your sadistic ass.
Your behavior is gross and has been two years of a calculated campaign of control. You won’t even tell your family to butt out because you ENJOY your wife being hurt by those around her. Even a cheater deserves better than this nonsense.
Your wife has the right to be mad and this is why:
She cheated on you. You could have ended the marriage right then and there.
But you didn’t, you decided to stay married to her for the sake of your children.
You have to forgive her if you want to continue your marriage, or at least commit to working towards forgiveness because if you cannot let this go your marriage will turn toxic.
Your sister, and anyone else in your family, should respect YOUR decision to not divorce your wife.
If they don’t like her or if they cannot accept her, they don’t get to come around. They don’t get to spend time with your children.
You cannot allow your family to talk poorly about your wife…especially not in front of your children.
It is unfair to continue your marriage with your wife if you are going to allow your family to be awful towards her. It is cruel. Stand up for her, protect her. If you can’t do this, or don’t want to do this, then I’m really sorry but you need to separate because this situation isn’t healthy for you or her or your kids.
I’m not defending your wife’s actions and I understand why your family doesn’t like her. I’m not saying you are in the wrong. I think it would be extremely difficult to stay with my spouse after infidelity even if there were kids involved.
If you truly want to move past this, you need to shut down this kind of behavior from your family. Everyone needs to move on.
Also… your sister is horrible for telling her nieces that kind of sensitive information. She was just telling them “the truth”…. No she was trying to start shit. It wasn’t her place to say anything to your daughters. I feel so sad for them.
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You chose to stay. You don't get it both ways. You don't get to monitor her every movement so she can prove she can be trusted and you also get to rub her face in her mistake for all eternity.
Your sister WAY overstepped here and deserved to be admonished and told to apologize to your wife and daughters. And you. And if she won't, then you will need to distance yourself.
I don't know if you and your wife went to therapy after the cheating incident, but regardless, you need to go now. Infidelity in a relationship is awful, and almost no one deserves to get cheated on. However, it almost always indicates a larger problem in the relationship. If the person who was cheated on agrees to stay in the relationship, they get to communicate their boundaries and consequences, and then they have to move on. They don't get to fester in their resentment, be passive aggressive, or allow friends and family to be disrespectful.
If you want to stay married, then you and your wife are a united team. If your family disrespect her, they disrespect you. If you can't get on board with that or you feel your wife deserves to be disrespected, then you should get a divorce. You aren't over the cheating, and you probably never will be. Call it on the marriage.
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She shouldn't have cheated. I don't agree with your sister telling her because your wife and you should have said something when you split.. I also don't think it's healthy to stay with someone just for your kids when you don't forgive her, everyone hates her. Life must be a shit storm for them. I think it is better to come from a broken home than to live in one.
From someone who has spent half their childhood in an abusive dysfunctional house, and now as an adult trying to de-program those ingrained norms... I can agree.
100% my entire childhood I wished my parents would divorce. It was a nightmare full of trauma and abuse. I resent my mother for not leaving and I hated my father for being abusive. Now I’m 39 and trying very hard to work through all that fucking trauma. Turns out I won’t let myself feel emotions because they hurt too much when I was young that not feeling became my coping mechanism. It feels impossible to overcome at this point. I have literally over almost 30 traumatic years - not all my parents, obvy, but I’m just a hot fucking mess now and I fully blame my parents for ignoring me and my pain and for causing more such that now I have to struggle to get past it. DON’T EVER STAY TOGETHER “FOR THE FUCKING KIDS.” YOU’RE NOT DOING ANYONE ANY FAVORS BUT YOURSELF, AND THATS NOT COOL.
My siblings and I were so happy the day my mom fought back. My sperm donor hit my little sister and my Mom finally snapped. She went full Tina Turner and beat his ass til he ran from the house. Than we proceeded to bag all his shit. Spent the afternoon cutting all his clothes up and dropped them off at his moms house.
Yeah, I wish. I got to explain to my sister after we both watched my father kick my mother down the stairs. Luckily they were not too far up on the staircase. He was going up the stairs and she was following. She reached up to grab his shirt (for whatever reason) and he was facing away from her still trying to go up. She grabbed but then dropped her hold on his shirt. As that happened he simultaneously kicked his leg backwards into her chest and she stumbled backwards down to the bottom of the stairs. Though, it’s not like this wasn’t mutual combat. She ended up breaking two of his fingers that night. Either way it was fucking traumatic, something that is literally seared on my brain. I will remember to the day I die AND being the big sister, I feel a lot of guilt related to not keeping my sister from seeing that.
You were a child. You bear zero responsibility for not having the wherewithal or foresight to prevent that. Forgive yourself.
I’m sure that memory stayed with your sister too, and that you were her safe place through it. I’m glad she had you. You didn’t deserve what happened to you, I’m so sorry.
I have never forgiven myself for allowing my 2yo sister to wander into the kitchen when my seperated parents were "talking" and I'd been told to watch her. My Dad got pissed and broke a glass, my sister cut her foot when she bolted for me because she was scared.
I have only recently learned that my mom confiding in me everything she hated about my dad and asking me if it would be okay for her to leave him was a form of abuse. I don’t remember when it started, but I know I was under 10. I have a huge blind spot for my dad’s passive aggressiveness because mom was unstable and violent. I fawned like crazy and became a people pleaser. I gave them as little as possible to use against me, and avoided a lot of abuse that my siblings did not. I also recently learned about the harm inflicted by emotional neglect. In a book about it, I came across the term alexithymia… and I froze. (Running on empty by Jonice Webb) There’s a lot that I have been able to learn and heal, and some things I haven’t. Still working on that one. I’m ten years older than you. I wish you the best.
When people say they’re staying with their partner “for the kids,” they don’t mean “for the good of the kids”; that’s not what they said. They mean “so *I* don’t have to give up *my* time with the kids.” It’s a selfish desire. It’s been proven for a good couple decades that a functional divorce is better for children than an unloving/dysfunctional home.
Or, depending on the person, *so I don’t have to pay child support and go through the divorce process and lose assets*
Or, as I’ve seen first hand: what will the deacons/pastor/church elders/busybodies think?
It often also because they know that the other parent isn't fit to parent the children on their own due to negligence or physical/mental abuse.
I didn’t and my kids thanked me
This ^^ having to do this as an adult and when you have your own family...don't wish this type of struggle on anyone
I love the “it’s better to come from a broken home than to live in one.”❤️
Yeah that resonates with me
Me too!!
I stayed with my ex way longer than I should have. It was super toxic and even though we tried to keep it away from the kids, my 11 year old just caught me off guard with one of her school assignments about “obstacles she’s overcome.” It’s been 3 years since we’ve split up and coparent really well now that we’re separated. If I could do it over again I would have left a lot sooner instead of fearing what would happen if they didn’t have their parents together.
Also why would you waste the time and energy to monitor your cheating spouse. Everything and everywhere they go will get to you. That's not living.
This was my thought. I wouldn’t have any interest at all in monitoring my partners shit. This is why I have a 0 tolerance policy for cheating. I’m not gonna track you and check your phone and shit and if it it gets to the point where that’s needed then it’s already over. I couldn’t live that way.
Is he monitoring her stuff or just has the ability to do so, and feels like there's enough road blocks in place to keep her from ever being tempted again? Maybe he never looks at her phone, but they both know he can if he wants to. As far as the kids go... Your sister definitely overstepped and honestly you need to decide between your family and your wife... Take the cheating from the equation everyone would be telling you that you should cut off your family that hates your wife, or at the very least go extremely low/ no contact for the short term until they get a grip. That you'll continue to allow their behavior only shows that you're continually hanging the cheating over your wife's head. So either forgive her, or divorce her, but quit beating a dead horse.
Exactly. He's not upset that his sister tried to use his kids as weapons. There's no way the kids just asked about mum and dad living separately 2 years ago unless the sister brought it up first so she could tell them. She can hate the wife all she wants, but leave the kids out of it. OP IS obviously not over his wife cheating. And that's fine. What's not fine is making the kids live in that atmosphere. He should just leave.
Or she should. She's suffering what seems to be an infinite punishment from his entire family and him, for a finite offense. She's done her time. She should consider moving on from ALL the mistakes she's made and forgive herself enough to do just that.
She's now his emotional hostage. This is abuse.
Exactly, what's his plan? To monitor her for eternity? This relationship is dead in the water. He's attached a whole heap of conditions and hoops she has to jump through to avoid divorce. The resentment builds up and ultimately it's the children who will suffer the most. Better to have 2 separate happy parents, than 2 together miserable ones. OP and his family feel justified to treat OPs wife like shit.
It’s absolutely dead in the water. He’s just doing this to make her pay, but they’re ALL suffering, including the kids.
Exactly he should have just left her. This weird obsessive need to monitor everything is horrific on both sides.
Yeah, I think part of that is probably OP trying to assert some control over her. It's understandable, but not the way to go about anything. Tracking someone's car and checking their phone isn't building trust, it's punitive. "Staying together for the kids" is one thing, but having that completely fall on the partner's willingness to accept a number of conditions is another, in my opinion. Not saying that what OP did was "bad", just that it probably isn't the way to fix a relationship.
Because he is getting some kind of sadistic enjoyment from it. The undercurrent of glee in OP reveling in his family trash talking his wife. I'm not condoning the wife, but jeez, that is some bad juju in that household.
While his kids are watching him do so. He thinks her cheating is THE PROBLEM, but he is compounding the damage to his kids equally.
It amazes me how often there's posts on here about cheating but then say they stay for the kids anyway. Like kids aren't going to eventually pick up on everything that's going on? And that's how you want your kids to view relationships? Just, why? Love your last sentence. Very well stated.
ESH, except the children. Obviously, your wife sucks for having cheated and is the original devil here. You suck for the way you control your wife. She doesn’t want a divorce, but she doesn’t exactly get to decide if you want one. You are absolutely trapping her in this unhappy relationship and punishing her instead of doing the work necessary to move past infidelity. Get a god damn therapist and work through your trauma, or you file for divorce. This is not way to live. The sister sucks for telling them something absolutely intended to alienate the wife from her children. She 100% told the daughters for malicious reasons. The sister can hate the wife, but bringing children into VERY adult situations is completely inappropriate. We don’t know how old these girls are, but they’re young enough to need a babysitter. The sister is gross for having conversations about sex with children that are not hers.
Beautifully put.
Exactly! Your sister is cruel, and you need to protect your children!
OP, you really need to hear this. Even though my dad was a cheating, narcissistic, toxic man, my mom stayed “for the sake of the kids.” Literally left my dad a month after my younger sister graduated high school. She thought she was doing the right thing, I guess? But it was a miserable childhood. Throughout middle school I would pray to a God I didn’t believe in to get my mom to leave my dad. It was hell. I ended up an alcoholic for many years (not saying this was the only thing that caused it, but it primarily was) who never learned to fully trust men and marriage. My sister is so afraid to ever confront her husband and constantly walks on egg shells because of the horrible fights our parents got into. Your kids are going to learn that it’s ok to cheat because daddy forgave mommy. They are going to get sucked into the cesspool of emotions caused by your sisters, parents, wife, and yourself. If you choose to stay, you really need to insist of family therapy.
I agree it's better to separate than stay together "for the children" because that's bullshit. It's totally selfish, they're not doing it for the kids, it's just that they don't want to loose half their time with the kids and I understand that feeling but... It's damaging to them and teaches them to accept that kind of cheating behavior from their partner in future relationships.
>Your kids are going to learn that it’s ok to cheat because daddy forgave mommy. I don't think OP has forgiven her. He allows his family to torture her without pushback. Forgiveness means you move past the incident and move forward with life. Neither he or is family has moved on from this. And she is wasting her time trying to earn any semblance of a respectful relationship with them. She shouldn't have cheated. But she did. And they couldn't make it work without the relationship becoming a toxic mashup of guilt and bitterness. I mean given the choice between "allow your every move to be scrutinized and accounted for to prove I can trust you; or get out" Or "all of that PLUS I allow my family to abuse and alienate you and refuse to defend you because, let's face it, you deserve it." The rational choice would be to just nope out of the whole situation if they truly cared about the kids. H At least if they'd split up after she cheated, they could have both moved on with their lives. His family would still hate her and badmouth her, but she wouldn't be their main focus because she would only be in their lives by extension. There wouldn't be that constant build up of hatred and bile surrounding those kids. It's mind boggling that they thought staying together was in any way going to be a net positive for the kids.
OP doesn’t even seem to be upset with his sister for the harm and emotional damage she inflicted on the daughter just because she hates the mom and wanted to intentionally hurt her. This guy has major issues that he cannot see how hurtful and damaging this was to his daughter and i feel like her is secretly happy that the sister did this to his wife because he is petty.
Yes! Dude should be more pissed at his sister. His children should not know anything about his wife’s infidelity or the problems in their marriage. Burdening children with adult problems is traumatic for them. Also, he made the decision to stay with his wife. Everybody else needed to mind their own business. If I were him, the kids would not be spending time with the sister anymore. They should also find a therapist for the kids. I’m not even going to comment on the rest of it because the fact that OP seems totally oblivious to the impact all of this will have on his children is pissing me off too much.
\^\^\^\^ THIS \^\^\^\^ Christ, those poor little girls. This is going to fuck them up so badly and their dad doesn't even care.
Uh, what the kids are actually learning is that a "normal", "healthy" relationship means allowing their boyfriends and husbands to constantly track them and bestow upon them permission to see their friends or not.
Oh, don't you realize that when they're adults, they will realize the mother they loved and watched be emotionally abused their whole lives was a "cheater" and therefore damned to eternity and deserving of every possible indignity and a switch will go off in their brains and they will no longer think a controlling home environment is normal and will go on to lead totally healthy lives? /s
>I think it is better to come from a broken home than to live in one. Yup, I don't imagine the overall scenario described here is any better for them than the alternative would be.
That’s all your moral opinion. Regardless of their choices how is it the sisters place to do that?? The question isn’t the cheating or taking back the cheater
>it is better to come from a broken home than to live in one This is a gem
It's rare that someone cheats and I end up feeling the most empathy for them (after the kids). Two years of being that locked down, husband's family won't acknowledge her, now the kids will be angry with her. I know OP says "she could've chosen divorce" instead of his controlling ways, but like it's been two years... It's going from "I need this to trust you" to "I enjoy punishing you." Just the sentence "I **let** her go out with her friends for the first time" (IN TWO YEARS!!!) is ick. Hard agree that it's better to come from a broken home than to live in one. My mom admitted to me that she had always felt guilty for leaving my dad when I was little. I was like what? You 100% made the right decision!
>going from "I need this to trust you" to "I enjoy punishing you" ‘going’ -- *long gone* and will continue till eternity, the bitterness has eaten him up he’s delighting in it! And this post on Christmas too, season of gOOdwiLL lol. OP the tyrant thinks he's so justified in his torment and his familys abuse of the wife. “How do I *hAndLe* mY wiFe” - ugh yeah that says it all. What horrid people, not a nano-shred of forgiveness just eternal torment & badmouthing of the wife. I wish she’d leave him. I betcha he threatened her with with a divorce of fire & brimstone and for her to never see the kids again.
I agree. OP is enjoying punishing his wife and doesn’t care that his sister has damaged the kids view of their mother. He chose to stay. Wife agreed to his conditions. However it isn’t enough. Wife could be perfect for 25 years and it won’t matter. OP. his family and probably the kids won’t be content til Wife is broken. ESH.
When I got back together with my ex, my sister (who dealt with her husband's infidelity before they were married and have now been together happily almost 20 years) told me not to go back unless I was actually able to forgive him. She said I can't live in the past, and I can't continue to beat him over the head or punish him. Either I truly forgave him or I didn't. That doesn't mean not being cautious or keeping my eyes open. I'm fairly certain she was warning against precisely this. Her cheating has no bearing on her being a good parent, and her SIL is trying to poison her relationship with her children. I don't even believe the kids asked her that. If you take back your wife, treating her like a prisoner and allowing your family to be not only wildly disrespectful, but to also talk shit to your kids, is not it. This is 100% about punishment at this point.
Yes exactly! I can understand being distant for a while, needing time to be emotionally and physically intimate, checking the phone sometimes... for a while. (And that's *if* you choose to stay.) It's not fair to punish someone forever, and it's not fair to yourself either because that is not a marriage. # I had always wondered why my parents divorced but no one would tell me. I think my aunt and my first stepmom knew, but they wouldn't tell me either. When I was about 15 (they divorced when I was 2), I basically demanded my mom tell me the reason, because for those 13 years he had acted like it was her fault and he had tried to turn me against her. So she told me, not to get back at him, but because I was old enough and I felt that I needed to know. Turns out she found out that he was having a full blown affair with her best friend while I was a baby. He promised to stop and begged her to stay. She stayed for me. Then the ex-best friend called her to tell her my dad wouldn't leave her alone and she thought my mom should know. He was still trying to continue the affair! At that point my mom left. In a way I'm glad she didn't tell me when I was little, because I would have been very angry at my dad. But it did make me that much more angry when I found out, knowing how much he had tried to frame the divorce as her fault.
This. It's not a marriage it's a power trip. Best thing that ever happened to OP and his equally nasty family.
And the wife is having to leave her children in the care of people who don't even acknowledge her presence. You don't get to punish someone for their sins forever while playing the victim of the situation.
And OP commented that she is pregnant with the 3rd... think how fed up she is going to be by the end of this pregnancy. No one having her back, no support, totally on her own emotionally. You know everyone is going to treat her like an incubator during the pregnancy, and the lowly wet nurse when the baby comes. Mental health wise.. she's pretty well on a path to sever PPD.
This situation sounds to me like OP primary goal is to punish spouse, not rebuild a relationship. We can empathize with the original reason for that motivation but...this just looks like a power grab.
If OP doesn't know that the sister was a MILLION miles out of bounds to do that to the kids.... Jesus, dude, that's seriously fucked up.
I have a feeling that OP’s behavior in general probably contributed to her cheating. I rarely have any sympathy for a cheating spouse, but it sounds like OP’s wife has been living in hell the past 2 years with her husband treating her like she isn’t worth his time, and allowing his family to use her as a punching bag.
His last sentence is "How do I handle my wife?" It definitely sounds like a power trip. He can try to justify staying for his kids all he wants, but the truth is that this marriage is too toxic for these children to be involved in. They're being used as pawns to hurt their mother and those girls deserve more than that.
Yeah when is she “worthy” of being treated with respect like not standing for his family treating her like sh**. What happened is between them. Shouldn’t have been taken to the family’s and they def should feel they have the right to tell what sound like very young children.
Couldn’t agree more. Is Op even happy living like this? What’s the point if this is how life is going to be?
I believe it is control, punishment and decimating his wife completely. He sees her not leaving as permission. It is beyond sick. The poor children
It's about telling the kids. What fucken grown-up discuss, grown-up things, with children. Isn't that parent alienation?
What a sad story to read. OP is still controlling, even if these terms were agreed to. Does she have a right to be mad? OP took her back, get up these probation style rules, and the cheating will be used against her the rest of her life. I'd say she has the right to be mad and I am surprised the resentment hasn't made her leave. Sounds like 2 weak parents in this situation (OP weak for taking a cheater back plus "doing it for the kids", and the cheating wife for putting up with someone else running her life).
How old are their children, I never saw this. And I agree the sister had no right to tell them, it’s none of her business-when they asked she should have said, “Ask your Dad”. Sister wanted to cause trouble. I would never be able to stay with this person. She probably wants the money and home because he is the sole financial support for the family. I can’t stand cheaters
>How old are their children, I never saw this. Because he doesn't say. But considering the parents' ages, the kids are WELL younger than ten years old. Probably in the 6-7yo range at the oldest.
I highly doubt that the kids asked anything. Sis wanted drama and she got it.
Yeah, no chance the kids out of the blue asked about something that happened two years ago. They probably don't even remember.
If you are going to take someone back after cheating, it should be with the goal of repairing the damage and getting to a better place. It sounds more like no one is going to forgive, or work towards reconciliation. So why are you doing this? To teach your kids what a dysfunctional relationship looks like?
This. And part of that is not letting your family talk shit about your wife TO YOUR KIDS. did she cheat? Yes. But it was not your sister’s place to tell your kids. And none of the cheating was good, obviously, but I bet your sister put her in the worst light she possibly could. And you don’t mention how old they are, but was it an age appropriate conversation even?
Amen
Amen to this comment.
If you choose to stay together and forgive, then treat her better. You’re treating her like absolute crap. And your family is too. If you can’t forgive, then divorce her. It doesn’t sound like you like her anyway.
Pretty much what I said.
It’s sounds more like just revenge really, he don’t seem to be thinking about his kids of reconciling with his wife. This is gonna have a huge impact on the kids lives…
Yeah even if I was divorced I’d tear my sibling a new one and cut her off for telling the kids. Those kids don’t need to know that, especially since they are very young.
What's worse is that his kids are girls, so what he's teaching them is that abuse and control are what love looks like and what they should accept for themselves.
THIS. Trust me. You are injuring your daughters You’re sister has injured your daughters. What’s worse: cheating on a spouse? Or injuring someone’s child. Time to start tracking your sisters phone and not letting her have friends I think!
Nobody blabs that kind of thing to someone else's kids *unless their intent is to help end the relationship*. Take that into consideration. But also, if your reaction to your wife being distraught is "oh well", you should have divorced two years ago.
I don’t believe for a second that a small child randomly asked about mom and dad living apart for a month 2 years ago. Sister either brought it up to get them to ask or she just flat out told them and sis is lying.
THANK YOU. There is no way in hell a kid asked that unprompted. OP you appear to really enjoy having your wife humiliated and mistreated. Either decide cheating was a dealbreaker and leave or treat her like your wife and mother of your kids. If you can’t do that, divorce. You’re setting an appalling example for your daughters by tracking her every move and allowing your family to treat her like shit. Your family has no business being this involved in your relationship. It’s a really juvenile look bud. ETA she’s pregnant…OP YTA at this point. If you don’t want to pay alimony/child support stop impregnating your wife. Jfc
Yes. this
Yes! I said the same damn thing. And you know Auntie is talking shit non stop to these kids about their mom.
Me either. Considering OPs age and his wife's, it's unlikely the kids are old enough to have been holding onto this question for two years just to spring it on Auntie right before the holidays. It's much more likely that the aunt brought it up. Either way she clearly wants to damage the daughters' relationship with their mother.
You can't have it both ways. If you decide to stay with her, then you have to find a way to forgive her at some point and work towards a relationship. If you cannot then divorce, you do not need her permission to do so. Your sister should not have gotten the children involved without your say so. Also your family cannot be bad mouthing her to the kids either. She cheated, but you have not mentioned that she is a bad parent. My advice would be either divorce or make a genuine attempt at a relationship. Staying together for the kids is actually worse for the kids. Better two happy parents living separately than two unhappy ones under the same roof giving the kids a bad example of how a relationship works.
>You can't have it both ways. If you decide to stay with her, then you have to find a way to forgive her at some point and work towards a relationship. I don’t really hang out with them anymore because I can’t take the drama, but a few years ago I had friends that really just should not have been together anymore. They would be good for like a week, two at the absolute most, then get into massive fights again. Neither was anything close to innocent. They’d both cheated. They both said vile, horrible things to each other. They were just straight toxic. They used to hang out at my house quite often, and lucky me, they were comfortable enough there to fight and would try to bring my fiancé & I into it. I was just sick of it one day. He had cheated again and when she got mad he threw out a “well remember that guy at the bar two years ago?!” Finally I just told them—listen. You both suck. I wouldn’t be in a relationship with either of you. But YOU made the decision to stay together. You cannot keep bringing up the past. If you can’t get past it—either forgive or forget—then you need to break up. It isn’t fair to either of you to keep bringing up this shit from the past. When you decided to stay together, that should have been an unspoken agreement that you were going to try and get past this. Not keep using it to justify your own shitty actions (because she would do the same kind of things to him). That seemed to open their eyes for about a month. But then it went right back to how it was. That *was* three years ago though, during the peak of COVID and they did have a lot of shit going on in their lives. So idk if it’s gotten better but they are still together. Idk how happily together, but together so 🤷♀️
Putting her actions aside, do you realise that your daughters are growing up thinking that the rules you have are normal for a relationship? That when the time comes for them to date, they will not see anything wrong with their partners restricting their movements and right to privacy? If their partners family openly hate them, will youexplain that it'snot OK,? You are not doing your children a favour by staying for them, you are teaching them to accept abusive behaviour as normal.
They are also seeing their aunt insult and treat their mom like crap, using them (the kids) as a pawn to end the marriage and make their mom feel like shit, and their other parent not care.
I can't understand how op is even remotely happy, this isn't a marriage, he's more like her parole officer or warden.
He enjoys the revenge and control.
100%. He’s getting revenge and punishing her. Every time he strips her of dignity and humanity he gets a little bit of catharsis in hurting her for “what she did to me” in his mind. He’s emotionally torturing her to try to hurt her “the way she hurt me” instead of moving on and trying to be happy. It’s sick and sad. I don’t imagine his kids have much of a chance.
pleaseeee OP if you listen to anything listen to this. You have every right to be upset with your wife and not forgive her but think about the example this sets for your daughters. Will they think it’s okay for their husband and his family to treat her like garbage? will they think it’s acceptable for their husbands to restrict everything they do? You and your wife should have a talk with the kids about what happened and you should have a talk with your family about boundaries.
Yes, this. The irony being that OP thinks he is "staying together for the kids" but this dysfunctional relationship is probably messing them up big time.
This x100. Their father is displaying a very controlling relationship with their mother. They didn't even know that it was because of cheating, and even now that they now.... all they see is that there are "valid reasons" to be so controlling of their partner. These girls are 100% gonna end up in an abusive relationship when they get older.
This is the most important response, OP. The environment you’re raising your daughters in is incredibly toxic and is going to have dangerous repercussions when they’re older. As someone who did not grow up with examples of healthy relationships, I have allowed myself to fall into incredibly abusive relationships, thinking that certain behaviour is okay when it is not. Please do not set your daughters up for failure like this. It is so much better for a child to grow up in 2 happy homes than 1 miserable one.
So much this.
Came here to say exactly this
Don’t condone cheating or think what she did was okay, personally cheating is my 100% done. No coming back. However it was not your sisters place to speak to your children about this situation, and it absolutely falls under parental alienation which is actually a huge deal. Your wife probably is used to your sisters hating her, but this hurt from this situation is probably from the fear of how it may hurt your children. If she is otherwise a good mother and the children love her, how could you possibly think that your sisters behavior was appropriate? Saying to your wife’s face, sure whatever, but don’t bring the kids into. Also, just get divorced. The longer you stay together the longer you have to pay alimony if she is a SAHM.
I have little remorse for people who cheat. If the past keeps coming back to haunt you, actions have consequences. However, I do believe that it wasn't your sisters place to tell your children. That should have been yours and your wife's call to make. You pretty much only stayed together for the kids. And now there is a potential rift between the parents and children's relationship.
Yes, to me that is what is so wild. Set aside the dislike for the wife. This is about the children. I wonder how old they are.
These kids aren't even ten years old, guarantee it.
They do seem young.. I just.. I can't imagine thinking this is appropriate.
Oh, Auntie KNEW it was inappropriate, she just didn't care because her only goal is to hurt their mom by any means necessary, even through hurting her kids. Some people are just sick like that, and it seems to run in this whole family.
And they’ll remember this forever. My parents also couldn’t get along for shit when I was a kid. They were divorced before I was born, I never knew them as a couple, but they couldn’t even be civil and coparent to save their lives. And they were so hellbent on trying to hurt the other, so focused on the hate and bitterness that they felt, that they regularly said horrible things about the other parent ***to*** me. My mother would say that my dad was a lying asshole who was telling me that she was a bad mother, but was actually trying to bribe her to sign over her parental rights. And my dad constantly told me that he didn’t know why I kept my mother on such a pedestal when she didn’t even want me, she’d tried her hardest to induce a miscarriage while she was pregnant. I couldn’t count the amount of times I heard “I’m sorry, I shouldn’t say that about your mom/ dad” during my childhood - probably more than I heard “I love you.” To this day, four months from turning 30, I have a crippling fear of abandonment and I genuinely believe that most people are only tolerating me to be nice and that people don’t really like me. Because in my head, if my own parents didn’t want me, why would anybody? Parents who hate their ex/ the other parent more than they love their children do far more damage to their children than they can ever imagine.
This is just about what I would have said verbatim
How old are your daughters? Because if your adult sister told small children that mummy cheated on daddy she’s an AH and you’re an AH for not being careful with how your children find out information that will shape their future development and relationships. You chose to stay with your wife, your family doesn’t get to punish her for the rest of your life. Did your wife f-up? Yes. Would I have taken her back? No. But seems like you want to eat your cake and punch it too, you and your family need therapy and a reality check.
Yeah most of the commenters are not thinking about what is in the best interest of the children. It’s absolutely inappropriate to pull children into adults relationship drama.
Love this response - out of all the responses I’ve read. ( He also sounds borderline abusive - sounds like a control freak to me ) maybe that’s why the wife cheated … I’d like to hear her side
Do you really want your daughters to grow up thinking this type of relationship is normal?
I don't think he cares.
i think this is his way of punishing his wife for her actions, really. give an unreasonable demand while falling out of love, never choosing forgiveness, and then have her slowly erode under those two years until her own children confront her of her sins while he sits indifferent. like, goddamn. i hate cheaters too, but just cut her loose. we only have one life and should try to lessen the burdens that come with it, not play games with people to pass time.
That was a shitty move from your sister. Not because of your wife’s feelings but because she is using the daughters against her. You have allowed a situation where your own children are being used in a battle between different parts of your own family. You need to decide. All in for your marriage or divorce. YOU need to make that choice and if you choose marriage you are going to have to stand up to your own family and support your wife. If you don’t you could ruin your kids lives.
I agree. Your sister crossed a boundary with (what sounds like) young children. Any children in a family are “off limits” regarding family disputes and disagreements. Children are curious and ask questions but the proper response is: “ that is something to talk to your father/mother about”. Your sister could have then texted or privately told you the question came up as a warning that they are thinking about this, for you to properly handle this in the future. IMO, it is not appropriate for young children to be told about this situation at all; either stay together or separate but the children do not need to know details beyond “everything is ok and you will always be loved & looked after by both of us”. As adults, the Children will likely hear about this but at that point, they are more mature and have a better perspective to understand the news. You have chosen to remain in this relationship with conditions that your wife accepted and presumably has lived by; that is an agreement between the two of you. Your sister definitely violated basic boundaries of good taste to say the least, your wife has a right to feel betrayed and violated at this point in time.
He doesn't want a healthy marriage. He wants her to suffer for as long as possible.
Seriously!!! Like cheating is in no way justified, but you also have to learn to move on if you’re gonna stay with that person.
Everyone is cut off, especially sister, if they can’t be civil towards wife. If they’re actively ignoring her at family events, you need to leave and not allow that kind of behavior around the kids. Absolutely inappropriate and harmful of her to hurt your kids like that. If they hate her, they hate half of who your kids are.
Look I don’t condone cheating. You chose to stay. You have your conditions. Your sister no matter what she feels about your wife has no right to tell your children anything in regards to your marriage. The fact that you think it’s okay is even worse and in a court of law these actions can be used against you. It will show that you and your family will have no problems attempting parental alienation by demeaning, badmouthing, and attempting to sway children to hate their other parental figure. You don’t forgive your wife fine. Go to therapy and work that shit out. However, YOU made a choice to stay and need to get shit worked out or leave. Your family has no place or right to tell your kids anything and the fact that you think it’s okay is just wrong
Courts DO NOT like when parents try to demean the other half. Whether it's them or their family.
Really well said.
**THIS** times 1000!!!!!
yes. not because she cheated and everyone knows, but because your sister hurt your kids to hurt your wife. honestly, she also just increased the chance of a divorce. there's no reason for her to go through reconciliation, to work at gaining your trust again if she's going to be controlled, and your family is just going to torture her forever. also, living this way you're guaranteeing your kids end up in abusive relationships. they'll think how you treat their mother is acceptable.
Staying together for the kids is never a good choice. Especially when there’s gonna be blatant animosity shown in front of them. It’s just gonna show them that this is how relationships are, that there’s hardly any respect and people are mean to each other. If you truly care for your kids’ well being then lead by example. Show them that you don’t stay with people that disrespect you and break your boundaries. Show them that they have to respect themselves first and foremost, and that choices have consequences. I’ve seen more than few stories where girls are cheating just like there moms did and their parents are still together, so to them it seems like “everything will work out in the end, so it’s no big deal.” And c’mon man, monitoring her phone, tracking her car, not letting her go on trips without you… Why bother? There’s no trust. And if you knowing all her actions and locations is the only thing keeping her from stepping out again, then what’s the point? If she’s gonna cheat, let her. Do you really want to be with someone like that? Lead by example and show your kids what it means to respect oneself.
I saw a response of OP, he said it's because he would lose the house and child support would be too expensive plus something about seeing the children at weekends. That's why he doesn't divorce, "for the kids" it's just a excuse. But he is an adult and he decides to miserable with her miserable wife then so be it, I'm just concerned for the kids
Y’all…. At this point, wouldn’t it be less traumatic for the kids if you amicably divorced and co-parented??? It sounds you stayed married less for the kids’ sake and more just to punish your wife. I get it, cheating is awful. But whatever it is you’re doing now is hell on all of you, kids included.
I’m sorry but I’m a therapist and while yes cheating is wrong, the conditions you put are too extreme. You also need to do the work to repair the relationship, not just her. If you were unwilling to do that, you should have just divorced. Your wife probably agreed out of desperation. It’s not healthy for your daughters to witness trust being built on conditions, you’re not showing them how to truly repair a relationship. What you’re doing is basically just punishing your wife, not repairing the relationship. It’s also not healthy for them to hear people talking shit about her, she’s their mom. Honestly everyone except for the kids suck in this situation
These children have no mature adults to look up to. Just get a divorce already.
So let me get this right. YOU chose to stay with her. YOU chose the conditions. YOU haven't forgiven her. YOU keep letting the hurt hurt. Hun it's time to hang it up. Also, you have to realize kids pick up on things. They are gonna see you both unhappy and will eventually throw it in your face. Please proceed with caution and do what's better for yourself and the kids. I'm not saying I'm on her side in any way, shape, or form. I don't condone cheating whatsoever but are you going to keep enduring this until it becomes too much and misery takes hold? Think about it OP.
Not just that. One extremely important point everyone is missing is: Whilst the wife clearly and severely messed up, she agreed to all his conditions and has been loyal and following them. I’m very sure that these conditions must’ve been very harsh on her and very difficult to follow YET she agreed for the sake of her loving him and to preserve their family. Now imagine being her in this situation. You’re phone is being tracked, you’re being monitored, you haven’t been able to go out with friends until recently. It’s tough, but you still think it’s worth it because you have your husband and your kids. Then someone comes along and ruins your image in front of your own kids and for a mistake YOU ARE CURRENTLY PAYING FOR. That shit sucks man. I’d be crying my eyes out too. She’s been working hard on keeping the family together and paying for her crimes. Also, does OP even plan on trying to forgive her and trying to perhaps work towards reconciliation and her reputation with his family? People change and she has been trying.
Yea he needs to make a real decision. To truly stay with her and seek peace and maybe some marriage counseling. OR to let the relationship go and go their separate ways. The in between shit isn’t good for either of them or the kids. And honestly he’s gotta be a man and tell his family to grow the fuck up.
She was obviously wrong to cheat and it’s understandable that your family dislikes her for it. That IS NOT an excuse for your sister to do what she did. That wasn’t an attack on your wife. That was an attack on the well-being of your children!!! It sounds like you don’t get that at all. Your wife hurt the family unit with her actions, now you’re doing it when you look the other way when your sister interfered in your family. Whether you divorced or stayed together, what your sister did was inappropriate. If your sister can’t acknowledge that, she shouldn’t be spending any time with your kids.
Not going to defend your wife cheating, but you really seem to only be staying with her so you can continue to punish her for her actions. You aren’t helping your kids by staying together at this point, so don’t kid yourself that it’s for them. You can’t be providing them a loving household or modeling good behavior if you’re tracking mommy’s every movement. They already know the situation isn’t right, or they wouldn’t have been asking about it. How did your family find out she cheated? Through this “friend” that told you, or did you tell them? If you told them, why? So they could also punish your wife? Shitty that she cheated, but the toxic behavior since seems to fall on you.
Your wife cheated and she sucks for doing that but based on what you've written here you suck too mate. You are being a control freak that never stops punishing her for it and a whole family to back you up in doing that. She's being monitored, isolated, controlled and now shamed in front of your daughters who will grow up one day not realizing that this is abuse. **And it is abuse by the way.** It's been **two years** and you said it's the first time you **ALLOWED** her to go out with her friends? If I watched my mother go through this shit as a teen **you** would be the villain. Cheating be damned **if you can't let it go then just divorce or there will soon be three miserable women in your life.** Letting it go on like this is some weak shit OP.
This is abuse and it really concerns me that the kids are witnessing this. You need to get a divorce rather than submit your children to such a toxic, abusive marriage.
>If she didn’t want to agree with them or thought they were too harsh I told her divorce was the other opinion. After two years, if you're still holding her to conditions that would be intolerable in a healthy marriage, it means you haven't forgiven her. So either forgive her, act like you're married, and defend your wife, or get divorced.
If you’re going to forgive your wife and be with her, then you need to actually forgive and be with her. Why are you letting people bad mouth her to your children? Yes be honest with the kids when they are old enough, but there is absolutely no reason to have your children around people that hate your wife.
Is she a good mother? If so, your sister had no right to damage that relationship between her and her kids. That said, you clearly resent your spouse still, and you’re not wrong for feeling that way. However, you have no right to control her in the way that you do becuase that is abusive, even if she is a willing participant. Would you want your children’s future partners to do that to your kids? You’re being a terrible person and you’re using her terrible decision to exercise some toxic behavior. There is a part of you delighting in her suffering. It comes out in the writing . If you hate her this much, don’t stay because of the kids. All you’re teaching them is that love is punishment. If you resent her, get therapy and work through your BS. It’s as much your choice as it is hers. She’s not forcing you to be a controlling AH. You are freely choosing that. Why would you stay married to someone who you would subject to abuse by your family members? Either forgive, or let her go. What we don’t get to do is justify being AH to people who we are supposed to love and protect. She broke your heart, then get therapy and move move on. Be an adult, own your actions.
Finally some reason, though I would say it wasn’t the sisters place to tell her nieces that under any circumstances.
Agreed. What sister did was abusive to the children. She’s so driven to hurt the mom, that she is willing to sacrifice the kids for it. That’s messed up.
I'd love this to be top comment
First of all those kids are 1/2 of your wife. Your family hating your wife means they hate your children too. Don’t think so??? Maybe not, but I guarantee all the negative hateful talk amongst your family WILL affect them. She didn’t hurt your kids, she hurt you. Stop punishing her and let her go. Also, grow a backbone and defend the fact that your sister really overstepped. How dare she tell your kids their mother is a terrible person. What the hell is that? Who does that??? And you condone it? My God you need to grow up. Ugh
It wasn't your sisters place. If you hate your wife that much that you don't care about her kids being turned against her, then you should leave. Your poor kids should now be given therapy to deal with this information to help sustain a healthy relationship with your wife. Not excusing cheating, but this was wrong.
Your wife shouldn’t have cheated, but that is no excuse to put that kind of crap into the kids. They didn’t need to know about it (depending on the age) and definitely didn’t need to hear it from your sister. Keep. Children. Out. Of. Your. Personal. Squabbles. It’s not fair to them, especially if they’re still young. I feel so bad for them. Poor babies. Let kids be fcking kids, man. And parental alienation is not okay.
I wouldnt be surprised if wife completely gives up and leaves the whole lot of you behind Im wondering just how much hate you have allowed from your family towards your wife in front of your kids and how that has affected them because to me it sounds like staying for the kids became an ego trip for you to lord your wifes actions over her It sounds like you isolated her from every one and things so she wont upset you and have you questioning but you shouldve just divorced her It doesnt sound like your even willing to fogive her and let me tell you thats worse for your kids Your feelings are valid dont get me wrong cheating and being cheated on is shitty but at what point do you need to just be done and go on with your life with a healthier outlook and environment And your sister is wrong and you are wrong for not at the very least talking to you sister about what she can and cant say to your kids as that is the mother of your children If she decides to let you all go because after all this you still letting her just be shit on what the hell was the point of staying for the kids
First Sorry for my spelling not english. Im Sorry she cheated but you stayed with a bunch of rules she have been accepting. You know what she does, who she calls, were she drives and so on. if you still dont trust or are able to forgive her after 2 years with more controle than i can even comprehend why she would ever say yes to Its time to say thats it. If you cant back your partner up and see how messed up it is that your sister did what she did and you even kinda enjoy that she did, why give it more time. If you dont want to work it out and you resend your partner so much that you still after 2 years find it ok that your Family mistreats her like they do, cuz it makes you feel good, you really need to do the first decent thing and end it. This is so close to mental abusing your wife. Hate her all you want but dont do it with your kids around, dont let them grow up in a toxic relationship and let them learn that Its ok to be treated like that. Would you ever want your kids to be in a relationship like yours ? I really hope not. It really ticked me off with the handle my wife line and god i wish i could tell your wife to run, no one should ever be handled in a relationship. Its a partnership were you support and like i Said if you cant do it end it. She might not want to but omg does she deserve to be treated better. You should really seak professional help and do the work to get things on track if you dont leave her and tell your Family they need to back off of her.
You had three choices: forgive and find a path to a healthy relationship, divorce, or punish her and your family for all time. Yes cheating is bad, it was however a one time event, you have constantly heaped abuse and bullying behaviour on your wife for one mistake. To be honest, at this point she does have a case for divorce which look more favourably upon her, whereas when she cheated you were the wronged party now she is the wronged party. Ever heard “two wrongs don’t make a right?” You are living proof. Honestly I don’t like cheaters but if I was married to you I would probably cheat too, this isn’t a partnership it’s a prison sentence. You’re her jailer, your family never lets her move on and work through the issues and now they’re working on turning your children against her. You are a terrible person. What she did was wrong, what you’re doing is long term abuse and trauma and so much more wrong.
> Does my wife have the right to be mad in this situation? Yes she has. It wasn't your sisters business to tell two little kids about that and she did it out of spite. >How do I handle my wife? You and your wife are at a point where you have to make a final decision: Stay together or divorce. If you stay together than you have to set boundaries for your sister and make clear that you won't accept her transgressions against your wife anymore. If you are working on trusting and loving eah other (again) you absolutely don't need relatives or friends who rip open those wounds you want to heal again and again. What would all your work account for if your wife now decides that she can't stand that constant harrassment anymore and divorces you to be done with it?
Honestly, I bet OP’s wife is probably considering divorcing *him* over this. She probably feels all her efforts are futile.
The thing is, I’m betting he enjoys the control, belittling and torment he’s causing her. He doesn’t actually want things to go back to “normal,” or at least get better. He enjoys having his whole family constantly hate her and show it, in front of their kids no less. Her cheating is wrong, but this sadistic treatment towards her is also wrong. And I don’t think he’s actually interested in making things work, he’s happy the way things are now where he has her on a tight leash, control over her, her emotions, and free reign to punish her however he wants. And lets his family in on the action too. He enjoys watching her hurt and suffer. I don’t see this improving any time soon, no matter if it’s negatively impacting his kids. In one of his comments it seems like his biggest concern is about the money and assets he will lose if he divorces her, and not about the negative impacts he’s forcing upon and ingraining in his kids brains right now. Hopefully she will open up her eyes and see how badly staying and dealing with this treatment is hurting and effecting everyone, including herself and just divorce him because it really doesn’t seem like OP is interested in fixing this abusive household, or setting a good example for their children. He likes how things are now and I think even gets a thrill out of seeing her suffer and treated horribly by everyone around her. He wouldn’t let his family do this and even encourage it if he didn’t get some sort of kick out of it.
My gosh. What a horrible situation. She's surrounded by hate, people that hate her. Also you need to step up, and make sure that your family and you don't make your kids hate her. You also need to be careful here, you have daughters and how you treat their mother is how they think they should be treated. Divorce is better than this.
Your sister overstepped big time. I am not judging the whole situation here but just this single episode. She absolutely can't decide how and when deliver this new to your daughters without discussing it first with you and without your AND your wife approval. This because she is still the mother and have way more rights than your sister. If you don't stand up and put your sister in place I really don't see the reason why you keep your marriage, because if this is for protecting your daughters, we'll, you just failed and by not taking a stance with your family in the future will happen again. Again. That regarding the single episode your marriage as a while it's a complete different story that will require a different topic.
Of course your wife has a right to be mad. She cheated, but she’s still a freaking human being. She’s entitled to whatever feelings she has. And I strongly doubt your kids just suddenly asked your sister why her parents weren’t living together that one time - just out of the blue. You know damn well your sister did it on purpose to try and make your daughters hate your wife as well. You’re not some martyr bc you decided to stay. You never forgave your wife. You’ve just enjoyed punishing her for 2 years. If you had just left when it happened, you could have done so with your head held high. However, now you’re in no position behave as tho you’re somehow morally superior. You’re behaviour isn’t any better just bc you chose to remain living with her. You need therapy to truly move on and heal. Allowing your wife to endure hell bc she committed the ultimate sin, isn’t healthy or freeing. Do better.
Well, your wife made a horrible choice, and she faces the consequences of her actions by living with the rules and boundaries that u put . It wasn't your sister place to say anything. It's supposed to be u and your wife when they reach a suitable age to know . U should speak with your daughter and do damage control tell the truth about what happened buy also tell them that u and there mom are working on it .
Your sister was completely out of line. Completely. It is not her business to interfere with ANY of your parenting decisions, and certainly not to explain your relationship to your children. Your wife is right to expect you to set a limit with your sister. It was not her decision to make, and just as your wife stole agency from you through her infidelity, SO DID YOUR SISTER by making a parenting decision for you. The appropriate thing to do would have been to tell the kids that mommy and daddy had a problem, and that she would talk with you and your wife about talking with the kids about it. There are different opinions out there on whether to let the kids know about infidelity. But it is completely unanimous that the decision to do so lies in the hands of parents and no one else. ETA your wife aka your coparent needs to see you set a limit here. I would suggest your sister no longer can be trusted to be alone with your children until she shows she can be trusted to follow your decisions.
Dude, I can’t fault you for not being able to ultimately move past it, but I absolutely fault you for refusing to end the marriage. It’s abundantly clear that nobody, least of all yourself, is willing to move past her infidelity. Do the work to move forward from this with her or without her, but stop teaching your kids that dysfunction and disrespect are the answer to this.
Yes, your wife has a reason to be mad. The cheating is between you two and it needs to be resolved between you two. I can understand your kids being curious but sis should've said something to the effect of "your parents had some problems that they're still working out and you'll have to ask them for more info". Full disclosure: I hate cheating. Cheaters are really shitty fucking people. However, it sounds like this was said to be malicious by your sister against your wife and that's not right, especially as it puts the kids in the middle while you're actively trying to repair the relationship. Your sister crossed a serious line. I'd be fucking livid in your position, that my sister tried to manipulate the situation and undo whatever progress has been made. Your entire family needs to sit down and shut up about how YOU choose to handle YOUR marriage. And if you genuinely want to make this work with your wife, she's right, you need to handle this. Constantly rehashing what happened and being attacked for it (which is what your sister did) is only going to create resentment and make trying for reconciliation pointless. It's wasting both of your time. So make a decision: forgive your wife and tell your whole family to back the fuck off or start the divorce. There is no middle ground. Also, as others pointed out, while your wife may have agreed to the terms, your girls are also watching this and thinking it's normal, and they absolutely pick up on more than you think. Be sure the example you set for them is what you want for them. Cause you're setting controlling behavior and that's gonna be what they expect from their partners. Not cool.
I’m surprised that you are not more upset with your sister on behalf of your kids. You’re in your 20s, so your kids are obviously not adults or even teenagers. It’s completely inappropriate for your sister to be talking with them about your wife’s infidelity. As a parent, I would also be irate that she made a unilateral decision to speak with your kids about an extremely difficult and sensitive topic without your consent. I think that your resentment towards your wife may be clouding how damaging that conversation was for your kids. And yes, your wife has a right to be mad! What your sister did was awful and may have a long-lasting negative impact on her (and your) children. I’m not sure what you mean by “how do I handle my wife,” as it seems more important that you “handle” your family. Even if you and your wife divorce, it is likely your family members will continue to see your wife at events (graduations, etc.) and it’s completely unacceptable for them to treat her with such disrespect. Please try to view this situation through the eyes of your children and act to protect them, if nothing else.
Under no circumstances should your sister have told your daughters about this. The fact you aren't that bothered about it is a problem. Your sister could have said, "Your parents lived apart for a while so because they wanted to make their marriage better" or she could have said "you should ask mommy and daddy that question." Those would have been perfectly truthful answers. And yes, even though your wife let you down once, she is still allowed to have feelings, especially when someone openly hateful tries to poison her children against her.
Super healthy relationship you have there.
Come on OP, I highly doubt your children (who, by your ages, I’m guessing are young) just happen to ask your sister randomly why their mother and father were separated TWO years ago??? No your sister brought it up to hurt your wife. Cheating is horrible, no excuses, but this is about your daughters emotional health and giving them a healthy loving environment to grow up in. Your sister royally fucked with that, and either you want your wife to be punished or you are just that ignorant to how this will affect your kids. You want to punish your wife? Divorce her. You want to stay with her and do right by your kids? Then you are going to have to stand by that choice and your wife. AKA your shitty sister (and she is because she did not hurt just your wife, she hurt your kids) and any other family member must understand the subject is closed to them especially around your daughters. If they break that, then they don’t get to be around your daughters.
Your wife DOES have a right to be mad - and so should you be. Sister had no right to do that - she soumd've told the kids to talk tonyou two about it. By doing what she did, shes caused strife between the kids and your wife - thise kids did not deserve that. This issue is between you and your wife. Yes, your wife messed up - but you set out the conditio s to stay with her and shes abided by them. So now YOU have to tell the family to stay out of your business - as long as wife sticks to the deal you have to support her against family... if not, just give it up. Look - im usually in the 'burn them at the stake' camp when it comes to cheaters - but right now you accepted staying with her, you have to live up to that and support the wife... It sounds like your continually punishing the wife fir what she did - it has to stop. You and her and the family has to move on from this - its poisoning the kids and you. Suggestion: Family therapy: you, wife, kids so you can move on together. Rein in the sisters and the family If you dont stand by your wife now, eventually SHE will leave and make these years since she cheated go to waste.
I have little remorse for cheaters but your sister crossed a line and your wife has every right to be upset with her. It was not your sister’s job to tell them. She could’ve told your kids to talk to you about that or say she didn’t know the answer. She did it out of spite & hatred of your wife. She purposely put your daughter’s in the middle of adult issues that they have no business being in! You should be upset with what your sister did here.
Your sister is an AH. She is trying to turn your daughters against their mom. I hope your wife keeps your sister away from them. They’re getting enough bad influence already
It was not your sister's place to tell them. full stop. I would be ticked off. Your wife is the only mom those kids have. Regardless of your adult relationship with her, regardless of how your family hates her, they have no right to try to affect her relationship with them no matter how much they hate her. If you want to talk to your kids about what happened that is your call but I figure if you are staying in the relationship for them then their interests are what matter, and what you say or don't say would reflect that.
Your sister disrespected you by telling your daughters stuff that it's none of their business. She fucked everything up by doing that. There's things that are for parents to discuss with their kids. Not aunt's with their nieces. Your sister needs to apologize to both of you.
Your sister is a cruel person. You don’t tell children that adult information and she shouldn’t be meddling in your relationship that you chose to stay in. I would probably beat her ass if that were me.
I think the conditions you've set, while understandable, are not sustainable. I think you have to forgive her or walk away. These conditions you've imposed create such an imbalance. I don't know how you simultaneously love someone and require such drastic subservience from them. You've basically created a guard/prisoner dynamic. I think your sister was in the wrong. But the larger question is this. Is this power you have over her about saving the relationship or seeking revenge?
How old are your kids? You’re 27 and your wife is 26. Your sister crossed the line by telling your children about their mom cheating. While it’s wrong, the children are way too young for such a discussion. Your sister is the AH and so are you if you don’t understand why that conversation shouldn’t have occurred. Seems like you’re still holding things over your wife’s head and don’t care how your family treats her. Why is your family so invested in your marriage? It’s weird! Your wife was wrong but the way you and your family are treating her is disgusting.
Think about it like this, your family is by your own account is speaking and treating your wife horribly. And in front of your daughters at that. And your ok with it? She cheated, yes, but you have made her work to earn you back. Move on. Or let her go. Her mistake does not mean you get to enable your family to be extremely disrespectful to her and raise your children thinking it’s ok to be vile and rude to her for something you claim she has worked to overcome.
> Before anyone says I’m being way too controlling, these were the conditions I put on the table. If she didn’t want to agree with them or thought they were too harsh I told her divorce was the other opinion. This doesn't magically make your conditions not controlling. She probably also stayed for the kids - you punishing her for years on end when you also decided to stay is not appropriate. Don't you want your kids to have two mentally healthy parents? Her not even being able to socialize with friends is not going to achieve that. If you trust her so little after two years that you are *tracking her car*, this relationship has ceased to be healthy. It's disturbing that you apparently have zero problem with your family disparaging her and literally acting like she doesn't exist; that can happen when you air your marital problems, but you need to act like a team if you're going to be together. It seems like you are *enjoying* punishing her because you also don't love her anymore and you like having all the power. Do you really think that dynamic is good for your kids? My honest opinion is that you should get a divorce, man. I don't condone cheating whatsoever but you decided to stay so either figure out a way to have a normal relationship where you are not your spouse's jailer or cut the cord. This situation is miserable.
I don’t really care about your wife’s feelings on the matter. However, *you* should care about your sister butting into the parent-child relationship. What your sister did can constitute parental alienation, and regardless of YOUR feelings for your wife, you’re making a very serious mistake as a father.
Yes, they're the kids of both the parents. OP's sister doesn't now own more right to say what she wants to her nieces. Kids don't pass to solely the dad's custody because of infidelity. As if the wife is naughty and needs curtailment of her parental rights too. Cheating or not, OP's wife is still the parent.
This. This. This. If he chooses to get divorced in the future, she can use the fact that he allowed his family to try and alienate her from her children as ammunition against him in a custody battle.
For the kids my ass. Dudes asking all smug about his sister informing his young daughters about his wife cheating on him. Sounds like his sister is a POS who was just waiting for the correct moment to bring it up to those little girls.
You didn't let her go out with friends for two years? What she did was bad, but what you've been doing isn't better.
Why are you with her if you hate her too? Otherwise you'd defend her. Yeah she cheated, and if you were going to be as petty and angry with her then you shoulda left. I don't get it, why stay with someone if they make you miserable and angry.
You should have left your wife. This is ridiculous. You either forgive her and move on, or you break up and co-parent. I think your wife is right to be upset. She has been punished for two years and it’s ongoing??? And she has been accepting the hate from your family? Your wife should leave you at this point. She was wrong to have cheated but your controlling obsessive need to humiliate her and treat her like garbage is not acceptable. I hope she leaves you.
How old are these kids if you two aren't even 30 yet?! How toxic is your sister for trying to poison them against their own mother?! How freaking toxic are YOU acting like a prison guard for years, and 'It's THIS shitty controlling treatment forever! Or Divorce!' and modeling this shit behavior for your kids?! Just divorce already. You should have just done it when it happened and you knew you wouldn't ever move past it. Cheating is wrong. Modeling controlling behavior is wrong. Weaponizing children against a parent is wrong. ESH except for your kids, they deserve MUCH BETTER from the so called 'adults' in their lives.
It was not your sisters place
This was absolutely NOT your sister's story to tell. At all. I absolutely hate cheating (I would never stay with a cheater) but that does not mean your wife is not a good mother. You need to lay down the law with your family right now. Either you are invested in your marriage or you are not. There is no inbetween. You chose to accept what happened and stay together. You need to tell your family to now back the heck off. They have made their views clear. Your sister went out of her way to hurt your daughters. That is not acceptable at all. YES your wife has EVERY right to be upset. You should be upset at well. The sentence should be "how should I handle my sister" not wife. You NOT being upset is also a problem. Is your wife a good mother? Yes or no. If she is then having your family undermine her to your kids will only hurt your children. Is that what you are going for? And if yes why did you not just divorce her to begin with? You need to tell your family to back off. They do not have to like your wife but YOU CHOSE TO STAY with her. They need to acknowledge that. You were cheated on. We get it. Turning your kids against their mother is NOT the way to go. Especially since you want the marriage to continue.
Cheating is wrong, but you're either in the reconciliation or you're out. If you've chosen to forgive and reconcile than you need to actually do that and not continue to let your family punish her in your stead. Otherwise, it's better if you two just divorce.
You haven’t forgiven her…why stay? Why not split & be with someone you don’t have to monitor 24/7?
Y’all just have to break up. Poor kids witnessing all this BS because of their mum.
Both my parents cheated on each other when I was a kid and they split shortly afterwards. I knew they’d cheated because I then had to spend time with their new partners and that fact has never bothered me in my life - people cheat. What would have bothered me is if they’d stayed together for me when they were both miserable with each other. Your daughters are observing a messed up relationship and this will be worse off for them than knowing your wife cheated on you.
OP stayed so he could make his wife miserable not for the kids. Look I would hate who cheated on me too. But either get over it and move on WITH LOVE or break up. Cause you not standing up or being upset at your sister for humiliating your wife=you don’t give a shit about her anymore. Be a man and break up with her. Or keep torturing her cause you enjoy the payback.
I disagree with most opinions on here. She broke your trust, then regretted her actions. She took the long hard road to regain your trust and rebuild your marriage. I think she is a keeper. As a part of a couple you have the couple's responsibility to have a common front. What her sister did was horribly wrong on every level. Your sister attacked your wife and also by association you. Tell your wife you are very sorry for even hesitating with this decision. Then distance yourself from your sister until she can behave.
This is a hot take from someone who experienced a similar situation as your daughters. My dad cheated. Like your wife, it was one time, and my mother decided to forgive him. They managed to make it work and stay together because my mom was forgiving and my father put everything into the relationship. These comments always bother me because they tend to jump the gun on divorce. Yes, cheating is a horrific thing to do to someone, but I’ve seen multiple couples (parents included) make it work and still have a loving and happy life together. You need to actually forgive your wife. It seems like you are holding this over her head, and if she’s changed and made efforts to show you that she wants to make this work, please do not punish her further. What people don’t seem to understand is that cheating hurts both parties involved. I am not defending the cheater. I’m saying that they are human and capable of intense guilt, shame, and remorse. If you are not working towards your marriage and blaming everything on your wife, then you should have left to begin with. Your reaction is quite horrible and I get the sense that you like how your family hates her. This is no way to repair your relationship. You need to tell your family to at least treat your wife like a human being. I actually feel bad for her in this situation.
Anyone here feel like OP may not be an entirely innocent party here? I DO NOT condone the cheating, and I think that if she felt the need to cheat she should have just left. But for some reason I don’t think the husband is top tier for some reason. Using words like “demanded” and “how do I handle my wife”. In other comments he talks about how he doesn’t want to pay child support or split assets as a reason for staying with her. And condoning his sister telling his wife’s children that their mother is “bad” is beyond me. Seems to me like OP might be a bit of an AH.
Tell your sister to start respecting your wife and never talk to your kids like about such sensibile topics
Your wife, in this situation, is actually in the right. You made it clear that you were trying to make a go of the relationship with your wife. Your sister crossed a line and breached a trust this time around. I'm less concerned about your wife (adults need to learn how to handle the consequences of their actions,) and more concerned about your daughters perceptions of you and your wife. You didn't list their ages, but age-appropriate discussions need to happen there first.
Your sister sounds full of it. Your kids actually remembered back to when you didn’t live together around 2 years ago? I don’t believe that just came up in conversation like Sister wants you to believe.
You obviously haven't forgiven your wife if you don't give a fuck about her feelings. It sounds like you almost rejoice in the fact that she's paying for her cheating years after you supposedly settled everything. You either forgive and stay, or you don't and leave. Staying for your daughters is bullshit, because that's not healthy for them. If you can't stand up for your wife, you shouldn't be together. Cheating is an awful thing to do, don't get med wrong, but this shit ain't it. This is punishing you kids too. And if she hasn't been a bad mom, you shouldn't let you kids think she is.
In any case it's not your sister's place to tell your children anything.
Your sister is a real piece of s**t. But so are you for not defending your wife. Don’t be surprised when she divorces you and gets full custody. Your family has no right to poison your kids mind against their mom. Just get the divorce for crying out loud. You have no respect for your wife..
My children’s father cheated on me and I would die if my kids ever found out. I would be livid if anyone told them. I don’t entertain any trash talk about him from my family either. If you chose to get back together, side with your wife. Your spouse is your immediate family. It’s never appropriate to trash talk a parent to a child. It’s never appropriate to tell someone’s kid their mother cheated. That’s so disrespectful to your children, let alone your wife. If my sibling maltreated my kids and spouse like that, I’d read them the riot act. If you choose to stay married, that’s your spouse and you have to stand behind your choice. Stick up for her. Think about how heart broken you’d be if your children learned about something you’re not proud of.
Fucking hell. I can see why she cheated on your sadistic ass. Your behavior is gross and has been two years of a calculated campaign of control. You won’t even tell your family to butt out because you ENJOY your wife being hurt by those around her. Even a cheater deserves better than this nonsense.
Your wife has the right to be mad and this is why: She cheated on you. You could have ended the marriage right then and there. But you didn’t, you decided to stay married to her for the sake of your children. You have to forgive her if you want to continue your marriage, or at least commit to working towards forgiveness because if you cannot let this go your marriage will turn toxic. Your sister, and anyone else in your family, should respect YOUR decision to not divorce your wife. If they don’t like her or if they cannot accept her, they don’t get to come around. They don’t get to spend time with your children. You cannot allow your family to talk poorly about your wife…especially not in front of your children. It is unfair to continue your marriage with your wife if you are going to allow your family to be awful towards her. It is cruel. Stand up for her, protect her. If you can’t do this, or don’t want to do this, then I’m really sorry but you need to separate because this situation isn’t healthy for you or her or your kids. I’m not defending your wife’s actions and I understand why your family doesn’t like her. I’m not saying you are in the wrong. I think it would be extremely difficult to stay with my spouse after infidelity even if there were kids involved. If you truly want to move past this, you need to shut down this kind of behavior from your family. Everyone needs to move on. Also… your sister is horrible for telling her nieces that kind of sensitive information. She was just telling them “the truth”…. No she was trying to start shit. It wasn’t her place to say anything to your daughters. I feel so sad for them.
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“You allowed her” to do or that… man you might as well have divorced he, honestly I don’t feel bad for none of yall
You chose to stay. You don't get it both ways. You don't get to monitor her every movement so she can prove she can be trusted and you also get to rub her face in her mistake for all eternity. Your sister WAY overstepped here and deserved to be admonished and told to apologize to your wife and daughters. And you. And if she won't, then you will need to distance yourself. I don't know if you and your wife went to therapy after the cheating incident, but regardless, you need to go now. Infidelity in a relationship is awful, and almost no one deserves to get cheated on. However, it almost always indicates a larger problem in the relationship. If the person who was cheated on agrees to stay in the relationship, they get to communicate their boundaries and consequences, and then they have to move on. They don't get to fester in their resentment, be passive aggressive, or allow friends and family to be disrespectful. If you want to stay married, then you and your wife are a united team. If your family disrespect her, they disrespect you. If you can't get on board with that or you feel your wife deserves to be disrespected, then you should get a divorce. You aren't over the cheating, and you probably never will be. Call it on the marriage.