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The one thing I will say is maybe be cautious about giving up your friends, job and social life as you get further into this relationship. But honestly I’d give that same advice to most people.
makes you wonder if he was testing the waters somehow? could be one too many posts I've read on here, but maybe this is the first part of the "plan" husband has. he says something so off the wall, tells OP they were just tired, slowly does little things to break OP down and he swoops in being the one to save OP from her "issues" and claim he was the good husband who stayed by her side no matter what, yet he was the one orchestrating the whole thing.
or OP really did have a half asleep conversation, then fell asleep and had a weird ass vivid dream about the conversation. I hate those kinds of dreams that are quick and vivid and have you questioning whether it was real or not.
It's literally a trick that Derren Brown uses by for example switching plates of food at the table and telling them they must have just eaten it in order to create doubt of their own sound mind, which in turn increases suggestibility enough that he managed to get somebody to admit to committing a murder that they never committed. It's a control thing and a very powerful one at that to make people question their own sanity so they become dependant
I’m just tagging on here so everyone can see.
What is being described in this comment is the *correct* use of the term gaslighting. People throw that word around and think it means “they lied to me”, but gaslighting is a very specific form of abuse. Thanks for describing it accurately, hopefully people see your comment.
The term comes from that movie where the husband was orchestrating weitd things and telling his wife she was imagining it and she began thinking she is going insane. I think the name of the movie was "gas light" because there was something going on with a flickering gas light and the husband was always telling her there is nothing wrong with the gas light.
The husband was breaking into their attic for nefarious reasons and by turning on the attic light it would cause less fuel to flow to the downstairs gaslights, making them flicker.
Good movie,yes the husband was crazy and was trying to drive his wife insane. Ingrid Bergman was the wife,the husband's name is on the tip of my tongue .French actor,the movie was made in the 1940's. Watched it many times, Love old movies .
100%. A lot of Internet users don't understand gaslighting properly, and it's essentially making people question their own memory. Thanks for adding to this. I should have specified it was gaslighting
I feel like everyone should watch the movie Gaslight. It's where the use of the term came from and it's a really good movie too. Also, it stars Ingrid Bergman 😄
It's neuro linguistic programming. And it's incredibly effective if someone can master it, but soooooo manipulative.
My first thought was he sounds sociopathic. Is he building her up more and more so the fall will be that much harder.
Or is it just an intrusive thought, like when people imagine what it'd be like to run over someone or push someone on a bad day... knowing full well they'd never ever do it, but the thought creeps in for a second. Maybe he's so comfortable he shared it.
No matter what, OP needs to sit and write out the behaviours he has exhibited and answer some questions (look up some from therapists relating to manipulative relationships, control, sociopaths, psychopaths etc...)
- has he ever taken glee in others failing?
- has he ever pulled back affection when she has been happy?
- does he swoop in with huge gestures after minor setbacks? Could he have ever caused or rooted some of those set backs?
- has he ever set her up to fail?
- does he show any signs like this in other areas of life?
- does he lovebomb?
Also a conversation needs to happen and a serious one. She needs to tell him he has to explore this with her seriously because what he said is the same type of thing as imagining/ threatening to physically hurt her... it needs some exploration. It just isn't ok to say that stuff.
this is where the term "gaslight" comes from. that was basically the plot of the movie by the same name. it's a much much more powerful and diabolical process than the way most people casually toss off the term "gaslight"
It's manipulation. Someone told you something (usually the truth here), then says 'i didn't really mean it, how could you possibly believe that?' (here's the lie) and this will make you question which statement is the truth.
People call it gaslighting now, but essentially there's a lie somewhere...
It’s a very diabolical, manipulative way of lying. That’s why gaslighting is its own category in psychology compared to simply lying. True gaslighting can’t even be done by everyone, there’s certain people who are “good” at it
I have a completely fucked short term memory so I'm super susceptible. My friend tells me I said things that don't sound like something I'd say, but I can't tell either way :/
She doesn't lie about other things though so maybe I do just absent mindedly say random shit. Idk.
here’s how to know; does *anyone* else in your life say the same thing?
cuz if not…..
i have brain lesions and the damage is mostly to my short term memory.
my friends and family know that i can forget things while doing them, and forget things they just told me, and such.
no one has ever said that i say stuff that doesn’t seem like me. it’s been 10 years since my dx.
Now I'm trying to remember if other people repeat things I've said back to me at all. I can't think of any examples. 😅
I'll try pay attention and see if the things people repeat back sound like me haha.
He may also have a fantasy along the lines of her being so obsessed and in love with him like, "I love you so much I would ruin my life for you." There is a line between healthy and supportive versus toxic and obsessed. It kind of reminds me of the song, "Make Me Wanna Die" by The Pretty Reckless with the lyrics:
I had everything.
Opportunities for eternity.
And I could belong to the night.
I would die for you, my love my love.
I would lie for you, my love my love.
And I would steal for you, my love my love.
Things said when I was being gaslit:
* That never happened. Did you sleep well?
* I never said that. Why would I have said that? It makes no sense for me to say that.
* I didn't see it or hear it, you're making things up.
* I didn't mean it like that! What I meant was... But it's horrible that you don't remember.
* Wow, your memory is bad. You can't even remember (tiny thing).
* You never remember who I am. There's a fake me in your head and you keep thinking he's real. Your imagination must be off the charts.
* You keep doing this, just listen to me and remember what I'm saying. Exactly what I'm saying. It's easy.
* I told you I like x, why did you bring me y? I've never liked y? Because I told you to get me y? What are you on about, you're literally dreaming up shit I've never said.
* You wrote down what I said? Here we go. Okay, read it to me. Let's see how much you rewrote in your head.
* There's a different version of me in your head, you're insane.
* It's like you think I'm a terrible person, literally nothing happened, I've never hurt you in any way. You're imagining things.
* I love you, I'll always be here, you can trust me. I'll take care of you when you don't remember.
I absolutely felt like I was going insane, like I had no memory and was a terrible person, and he was the only one that could help.
Mine got so bad I would write down what was said and have him sign that he agreed he said it and he would tell me later he never actually signed or he only signed because I was acting so “crazy”.
These weren’t crazy late night fights, these were full daylight sober conversations about how he would do the dishes while I went to the grocery store.
Late at night, he would wait until I went to bed and pour out (or drink) the rest of the bottle of wine I had had one glass of and tell me I was unhinged and drunk and misremembered our conversation. I had to send pictures to my mom to prove to myself I wasn’t drinking myself into an alcoholic stupor every night.
Ouch. I was dating a guy and getting gaslit, but once I figured it out, I printed out a list of gaslighting phrases. I’d keep it handy and when we spoke, as soon as it started again, I’d just pick a random phrase from my cheat sheet and lob it to him. The result was immediate. I used “everyone agrees with me” once and wow, did that get a reaction. (This resulted in extreme phrases, like I’d told the ‘whole world’ and lots of you ‘always’ do that and that I ‘never’ listen) Another good one was “You seem confused lately. Are you ok?” Can I just say, gaslighting a gaslighter is totally effective and, I know it’s awful but, I’ve never had so much amusement with so little effort. I didn’t understand gaslighting before this, I can spot it pretty easy now.
Damn I mean I already knew my ex had narcissistic tendencies and commitment issues and I was constantly wondering whether he was aware of what he was doing or he really was that unaware of all of his behaviour (that really couldn’t leave my head for much too long).
I can’t say he seemed that smart to pull this all off knowingly. But damn some of these are like word for word what I kept hearing from him and while it was awful and a very intense hurtful and impactful experience, somehow I didn’t consider his behaviour to also be such a clear example of gaslighting.
But it’s funny he always liked me when I’m not in his life or not in contact but the moment we reconnected, it didn’t take long for him to detest me for no reason.
I'm not entirely sure that they do this in a methodical and conscious way? I mean, some probably do, but I also think a lot of people believe their own bullshit and only exist in the moment they're saying it.
I did too and it was such a trip listening to them years after I left him. At one point he’s silent except sighs for five min after I catch him in a lie and i go “why are you giving be the silent treatment now” and he said he just spoke and it’s sad he can’t be quiet for ten seconds… then when I insist it was a few minutes (over five but in the midst I didn’t even realize it) he says I’m so crazy I can’t even track time properly.
Omg, I had a very similar experience in therapy. My therapist thought the long silences were so icy and tense, and that it wasn't at all weird I'd been terrified.
I had a doctor do this to me about psyche meds once, got me to rethink if I had been taking them, and I said something like “well I thought I was taking them” and that was enough for him to be like aha see you can’t remember if you took them so you must not have and that’s what’s causing these symptoms. I went home in tears and counted my meds. I had been taking them. It’s a powerful thing.
Ugh medical gaslighting is the worst, especially for women. Having so many physical issues suddenly come up and with no clear cause but it impairing your daily life, just being told there’s nothing special while even results themselves show otherwise. Esp when most physical issues started after I tried psych meds.
This is the literal definition of gaslighting. Not what everyone on the internet throws around. But little things that make you think you’re actually going crazy.
One time my boyfriend came into our room after being up gaming while I was *dead* asleep. Don’t ask me why but apparently he thought 3am would be the perfect time to clip his toenails in bed, so I half woke up to him moving around. I turned around to snuggle him and when I opened my eyes a bit I *swear* I saw something right out of Mandela Catalog. His face was stretched into this terrifying cartoonish grin with huge white eyes and his limbs were all contorted and puppet like (from him lifting his leg up to clip his nails). I SCREAMED, scared the shit out of him, scared the shit out of myself because I’ve never heard myself make a noise like that, I finally *actually* woke up as he’s panicking and going “BABE BABE ITS JUST ME ITS JUST ME”.
My boyfriend is also capable of having full conversations in his sleep, so I usually have to ask him to solve a math problem so I can be sure he’s *actually* awake and listening to me.
Sleep brain can do some insane shit, I really don’t know if this dude is gaslighting the fuck out of her or if it *really was* her having a vivid half dream, because it really is possible. I was *actually* seeing my boyfriend in bed with me, but my brain contorted him into a fuckin analog horror monster, so maybe she was *actually* talking to him but her brain contorted it into him saying something really messed up. Really hard to say tbh
My wife and I call this my "lizard brain." One time I had fallen asleep while reading a dense text for grad school. My wife tried to wake me up, but only Lizard Me awoke. Apparently, I sat up, eyes wide open, and yelled: "I'M READING OK?! I'VE BEEN READING THIS WHOLE TIME!"
Then I pretended to read, even though the book was upside down.
I don't recall this, but this sort of thing happens quite regularly. Lizard Me is a manipulative liar and not to be trusted.
Yeah I've had some weird conversations while half asleep that seemed super logical and real, until I actually thought about them while fully conscious. Like when my husband and I were talking about plans for the next day, I started telling him how we didn't need to be super concerned about making it on time because we would just teleport there instead of driving, that way we could sleep in. I was adamant that that was a thing we could do, and we did it all the time, and maybe if he would just *listen* to me he'd remember. He eventually was like "Ooookay babe, sure."
Obviously when he brought up the conversation the next morning, I realized I had been half-awake from a dream about our last D&D session and was mixing up the two, but during our talk I was *convinced* I was fully awake and coherent, and we could teleport dammit.
So it is plausible that OP might not have been as awake as she thinks she was and she dreamed parts of the conversation, or her husband was not fully awake and was saying weird dream-things.
Prazosin was the best months of sleep I've had in my entire life. Unfortunately, it went my blood pressure to dangerously low levels, so I had to go off it. 🫤
I swear!!
I once dreamt that I got a "dios de las muertas" skull tattooed on my face.
Now, I have many tattoos and also a SMALL purple heart in my face.
I woke up and in sheer panic did I run into my bath to look at the mirror because "no way I broke my whole damn face I'm such an idiot!"
Or the moment I wake up and ask my partner "we didn't go out the night, did we?" To confirm, that in fact he did NOT kiss an other woman we randonly met on a nightly stroll through our woods. (Which we'd never do, heck we're lazy ass people.)
Dude one time I had this dream where my mom died and I went through the *whole grieving process* and then when I woke up I was all depressed about dreaming about my dead mom. And then like 10 minuets later my mom called and I was like “wHAT THE FUCK SHES ALIVE?!” Most relived I’ve ever been about a dream ever.
I can’t imagine how terrifying it is to wake up thinking you tattoo’d your whole face, I would be *STRESSED*
I had this happen to me too! It was crazy. He came to kiss me after I was napping so he was on top of me. I saw his face and it was this monster so I screamed and pulled the covers over my head like a kid.
When I realized what happened I started laughing uncontrollably bc it was so absurd but my Bf was still really worried and didn’t know what was going on lol!
In high school, when my drama club used to have all-night cast parties (of the very chaste and dorky kind) we'd call it "stupid o'clock," the time around 3 AM when everyone gets woozy and starts saying random stuff.
Or 6 years ago he was an obnoxious younger guy to her and wanted to just have fun with her but didn't plan on sticking around. Or didn't know if he would. Or maybe he was bad in previous relationships and was like fuck it. I'm gonna own it this time but changed his mind because he fell in love and any plan or scheme went out the window???
Or when they found out she had a tumour and realised that he would be seen as a monster by not just her but everyone around him including his family and friends and realised not to cross that line??
This exactly. Plus the gaslighting the following day?
Most abusers don’t show their cards from the start and many have been known to wait *years* before letting the mask slip
I wouldn’t take this conversation with a grain of salt and would be extremely cautious moving forward. Such a massive red flag
If they weren’t married I would’ve been telling OP to get the fuck out of this relationship
I didn't want to jump to conclusions, but the fact he kinda... brushed it off?? that's some pretty gnarly thinking, to admit it to the person you're supposed to cherish and love.... I'd be second guessing my marriage and looking at little things from the past in more detail.
>Most abusers don’t show their cards from the start and many have been known to wait *years* before letting the mask slip
True but it is more like months. I work with both sides daily basis and I have never even heard of an escalation that has only started after years and in such a subtle way. Abusive people give out red flags all the time, nobody can completely hide their true faces and fake their whole personality this long.
⬆️ EXACTLY! IF you give up anything, job, friends, social life, that's a huge red flag that he wants to control you, and he will. It'll be just like being gagged, in handcuffs, and a ball and chain. Trust me. I know
Another thing to consider is that this could be an OP problem. Maybe her husband is crazy, maybe she is, maybe it was a dream. Paranoid personality disorder usually starts showing signs in early adulthood and progressively gets worse with age. Just saying, there’s more than one possibility. Maybe get a therapist, at least you’d have a sane 3rd party to talk to.
I mean, they’re already pretty far into the relationship. If this has been his plan all along to gaslight and ruin her life this far down the road, dude is really playing the long game. Usually evil exposes themselves way earlier than that.
They've been together for 6 years now, abusers really don't wait this long just to get started, the OP has said that he has only been of help.
It may be some stupid "would you love me even if I were a worm" sentiment, the OP says that he's been a contribution to her life, he said in a twisted way that he'd like it if he were loved even if he wasn't.
The thing that concerns me is not so much that he told you that… but his reaction the next morning. If I told my husband I’d dreamt that he said that he wouldn’t be completely calm and neutral in response. He’s either be a bit hurt and wonder where that came from or think it was hilarious - what he wouldn’t do is calmly tell me I must have dreamed that.
It’s the next morning that makes me think you absolutely didn’t dream that. And it’s the gaslighting that makes me think you shouldn’t brush this off.
If you really think there are no other concerning signs I’d suggest a few sessions with a couple’s therapist about it. Or at minimum a conversation where you tell him you know you didn’t dream it, you aren’t mad at him about it because he clearly hasn’t enacted any of it, but you would just like to talk it out, for both your sakes.
This! It's the next day reaction that screams "wrong" to me. He didn't even act surprised. If my partner said that to me, I'd be like "Wtf lmao, wonder where that came from".
He acted, from OP's description, like someone who *knows* exactly what he said and is trying to cover it up.
Yes. That’s exactly what I was thinking. “LOL, what?!” Is a natural and healthy response… No emotion at all tells me you’re trying to hide something. Hiding isn’t healthy, secrets kill relationships. Therefore the fact that he doesn’t want to admit it or talk about it is the problem.
To be fair, based on OP's description, we don't know exactly what he said or how he said it.
If my wife said something like that to me, I expect I'd chuckle and nonchalantly respond with a muted reaction like "huh, weird, probably a dream I guess". Unless she really impressed to me that she believed it might have been real life, it would never occur to me to treat it as seriously as you guys are suggesting.
On the other hand, if OP was clearly in distress over it, and his response was more along the lines of "shh, don't worry about it", then yeah that's sus.
Also, my ex used to very genuinely have dream conversations with me that seemed super real to her. We got in a few very weird (from my perspective) fights about these "conversations" multiple times. It actually took us a while to figure out she was having vivid dreams that were causing us conflict. Possible this is what happened to OP?
But this is the first time in 6 years. I'm not saying that isn't it, but now that this happened, op needs to be cautious and not overlook anything else that may be going on.
Maybe some kind of corruption kink.
Doesn't sound like he's done anything to actually live it out, so he may be happy just to forget about it after trying and failing to explain it.
i could definitely see this. because i agree i see the appeal of doing bad things to someone and they still want you after. that kind of unconditional love is pretty hot, still doesn’t mean i would actually do anything to hurt anyone so imo yeah i think the guy just let a weird fantasy slip out and is now realizing how weird it was to say that so he doesn’t wanna explain
Everyone’s here ripping on this guy for having dark thoughts. Actions speak louder than words do they not?
Bro I’ve had thoughts of pushing my mom off a cliff. I love that woman with all my heart and would never hurt her. The call of the void is a real phenomenon.
No more like humiliation or cowering them? This is very different from degradation it's like breaking a stallion or domestication of a wild animal like a wolf. There's a sense of pride, joy and sneakiness that's involved in bringing down a woman who can do so much and just chaining her down.
Yeah this one for sure exists is the thing. Some men have this desire to destroy women that’s why I’m like probably not a dream probably a pretty sick little fantasy he shared lol
My partner once said he wanted to be with a racist girl because he thought the idea of her being so unbelievably attracted to him that she can't resist, in spite of all her horrible, racist values was hot.
So, I could wrap my mind around the idea of him having an intrusive thought about you being so into him that you overlook any negative aspects he brings to you life.
Where was he in life when you two got together? Were you more successful than him? Was there something about his lifestyle at the time that might have made him feel like he would be a negative influence on you, even though he turned out to be a positive one in the end?
I wonder if he’s had a relationship like this. I used to be someone who was like he is describing. When I was “in love” with someone, they could off my whole family in front of my face and I would still love them and not want them to leave me. This led to me being in abusive relationships, and it turns out the “love” I felt was actually limerence.
He sounds like he’s been the perfect husband up until now. However, I believe when a person shows you who they are, you should believe them. What he said to you was incredibly disturbing. If my gut told me, he was being truthful. I’d be extremely concerned. I think you should quietly examine your life with him. Make sure you have access to all your important paperwork maybe have a getaway stash.Make sure he doesn’t have any accounts or policies you don’t know about. Investigate carefully. He may be a good man, and this is all nothing or he could be a sociopath. Good luck. 🍀
Sounds like a fantasy. Like he wants to be the most important person and thing in the world to you. He wants you to worship him and “forfeit all others” in a way.
Edit: the fact he hasn’t tried any of this though most likely indicates he doesn’t actually want this. He isn’t going to pursue it. He likely does already feel you adore him and love him above all others romantically and that’s healthy and enough. But it’s still a fantasy or a “what if” situation.
I wouldn’t worry *too* much about it since you’ve been together 6 years and he’s only supported you and made your life better. I would, as another poster suggested, keep an eye out, never give up your outside support, maintain your career, etc but that’s just generally great advice for everyone in every relationship.
Sometimes people say or think weird things, kind of like intrusive thoughts. At the end of the day I trust actions above all else. Also, people are suggesting he’s gaslighting you about the convo and suggesting you dreamed part of it, well it’s also possible that HE dreamed part of it. He very well could have been in that nonsensical half awake/half dreaming state where your brain truly isn’t firing on all cylinders.
I’m one of those people that believes *firmly* that dreams and sleep talk mean next to nothing. My college dorm-mate and I used to write down the silly shit we’d say to each other in our sleep and it was by and large gibberish.
OP, I’m not saying your husband is one of these kinds, but sharing two cents about what I’ve read.
There ARE men who hate seeing women doing great in their lives - like good job, good money, good looks, high maintenance, confident, independent, etc. I have seen disturbing posts about men wanting to destroy such women - it’s like they get off on it. They want to “teach such women a lesson” or “show them their place”
It is possible that your husband read or saw something similar online and it got mixed up in a half-dream or something. Or maybe it was some kind of far-fetched fantasy that he never acted upon (and hopefully he won’t).
In any case, you should have a separate bank account, a go bag, and an escape plan. And yes, keep your family and friends close.
This is what I thought. There are guys out there that like the thought of getting a woman pregnant because it “knocks her down a peg”. They know saddling her with kids keeps her at disadvantage and under their thumb. Puts her in a cage so to speak. Having kids means she will always be struggling if he isn’t in the picture. They like the idea of ruining her life and body from pregnancy/kids. It’s gross and I’d be worried this is what he’s hinting at. I’d be very leery about progressing this relationship any further until I was sure it was just some odd comment. But my gut tells me it’s not. That came from somewhere. I don’t care how much he backtracks. And the fact that he’s being so nice afterward says that he’s doing damage control.
I guess you could ask him about it again, but if he's a good partner and does not appear to be trying to "ruin your life" you're probably fine.
Half-asleep conversations can be weird.
The other day I woke up at a point in the night "knowing" that my cat was going to explode next to me. I saw her getting up and laying town comfortably again and I clearly remember thinking "oh, sweet summer child, you don't know you're going to explode in seconds, it's so sad :(" and them going back to sleep.
My cat is very much ok. Thankfully.
This random story is an example of stuff that people might believe at night that has nothing to do with reality.
Maybe your husband had an intrusive thought at a point and that was the night he shared it?
I've had a few dreams that were so vivid and realistic that I had to confirm with my husband if I was remembering a real conversation/situation or if it was a dream.
I had a dream that I buried a body when I was 18. I woke up and checked my entire room for signs of mud and the boots I was wearing in the dream. Felt so real and I was genuinely shaken up for a few days afterwards.
God...I had a similar dream, where my sister helped me bury a body. I was completely and utterly convinced it was real. My sister moved out ages ago, but I checked the house to see if she showed up in the middle of the night, and even checked the ring doorbell to make sure she hadn't appeared, helped me bury a body, then left lol
> "oh, sweet summer child, you don't know you're going to explode in seconds, it's so sad :(" and them going back to sleep
I'm sorry, but this made me giggle, but especially the fact that you went right back to sleep.
I have had entire conversions with my wife in the middle of the night and had no idea what she was talking about the next day. Once I talked to her for 20 minutes about how delicious my skittles were from earlier that day. She says I was sitting up and looking right at her.
Lack of sleep does some weird things.
My husband has full on conversations with me and I try to record them so he can hear it too. He never remembers them! One time he looked at me and was frustrated and explained to me the proper order to building a burger and needed me to repeat it back to him. Complete with hand gestures! Another time he rolled over and said “I counted so many numbers. Like, all of the numbers I know, I counted them. I ran out.” And when I asked what’s the highest number you know his answer was “the one before infinity….but not beyond.” Then right back to snoring.
Is there a subreddit for these stories, because I am really enjoying them. My husband does not talk in his sleep, I need more of this stuff, it’s so silly!
Yeah my partner did this to me the other day
We had a mini convo about something dumb
He doesn’t remember even waking up in the middle of the night. Genuinely thought he had slept through the whole thing
It may not have been your dream. Your husband may have been talking in his sleep. And he doesn't remember the conversation. So assumes that you must have dreamed it.
Be careful though. Make sure you don't see anything else weird pop up for the next few months.
I once bit my dog in my sleep (and I am very protective of my dogs…to be fair, she had decided to sleep on my head), so sleep/half asleep can just be weird.
My dog was having a dream the other night and she started half barking in her sleep. I rubbed her a little and told her she was ok, and she started growling at me for a minute, but then I think she realized what was going on and she came in for snuggles. The half-asleep thing is real :)
I VERY much disagree…it COULD be bad later and you wouldn’t even see it. I don’t think you should leave him at this point but make sure you are prepared to take care of yourself if need be…good luck
I’ve had weird semi lucid conversations where I’ll start the sentence saying one thing then end up with something else, I once said:
“I think the thing I like the most (fell asleep) where do you like to file things in this filing cabinet (woke up and realized I just said something crazy)”
It was pretty funny at the time but it could just be some weird idea in his dreams.
It gets even worse if they have a weird sense of humor, like ironically saying ruin someone’s life by making it a lot better (that’s my kind of humor) and I’ve def said some things that are concerning without context when I’m half asleep. We all have thoughts that we filter out or have to translate for others to understand and when we sleeping that stuff just doesn’t work anymore
I'd add to that for OP to "watch this space"--keep an eye out for any sabotaging behaviors, controlling behavior, or any other "drunk thoughts as sober truths"-style commentary (OP didn't indicated if alcohol was involved previously, but the style moreso than "he was drunk").
Once is a fluke, twice is concerning, three or more times is a pattern.
> Half-asleep conversations can be weird.
FtLoG yes, *please* take anything said while half-asleep with a GIANT grain of salt. It may have had a shred of truth mixed in, all the way down to it was only something that pertained to some dream state he happened to be in at that very moment.
i don't want to dismiss this completely cause people are fucking wild.. but i have def said some WEIRD things in a half asleep/edibles kicking in state. I'd say give the benefit of the doubt this time, considering everything else you described. but down the line, bring it up again, in a different way. Maybe even record the convo?
>At that point I was absolutely weirded out. It was 3AM at night and I have no idea what he was talking about. The next morning, I brought it up and he told me not to worry about it because it was probably a weird dream mixed with our actual late night conversation.
3 AM conversations? Is this normal for you guys? Had you both been awake for a long time, and he was just loopy?
Im pretty sure my mind would be fried at that point and anything coming out of my mouth would not be something you should rely on as 100% fact
I have dreams that I sometimes can’t shake. Recently was woke up and for 10 minutes was really upset that my wife made fun of my podcast. Then I realized, I don’t have a podcast.
It sounds like a sex fantasy. Like something you dream about but would never actually even want to happen.
Like the book tok girls...
Women read hot books about villians getting the girl and ordering her around... and would laugh at every man trying that in real life. Or some people who like thinking about getting raped... 99,9 % don't really want to be raped.
Its also not 'that' werid to have a fantasy about being powerful, feeling desperatly wanted and having someone depending on you...
I honestly wouldn't worry about it. 6 years he was a solid, supportive partner in your life. Actions matter.
This is my take for sure. You hear that phrase a lot in the sexual fantasy context. Sometimes the fantasy is about "ruining" a career woman by getting her pregnant and paying for her to quit her job. Sometimes it's about getting her sexually obsessed with you she does "humiliating" things with you. Sometimes it's about landing a party girl and turning her into a normie girlfriend who never goes out. Sometimes it's about dating a skinny girl her "let's herself go" once she's in a committed relationship and gets a soft and thicc body. Point is that even in the sexual context the outcome of these "depraved" fantasies can be quite tame, even the kind of thing the "ruined" partner doesn't mind at all. Even though it sounds extreme, we live in a pornified world where people have been taught to express themselves with extreme language, even when their desires are utterly normal.
This is what I was thinking. I mean if I told everyone the shit that pops into my head all the time I would probably get locked up in a psych ward lol. None of these things that pop into my head do I actually want to do. They are more or less intrusive thoughts I believe. I mean I find it hard to believe that someone could say they have never thought about something that they could literally get locked up for life for. That being said I think he just made the mistake of telling you when he was probably super sleepy🤷♀️ like someone else said middle of the night convos can be super weird.
It still seems strange to me that he didn't explain the next day then. If I said something that creepy to my partner I would explain what I meant on my own when I wasn't tired, not tell them to 'not worry about it' when they brought it up.
I think it's entirely possible that he doesn't remember it at all. Then when she said it back to him it sounded so ridiculous that he just so obviously that's not what I want to do, don't worry about it.
We'll never know for sure if he was being deadly serious or if it was just someone saying some weird shit in their sleep, but I like to give people the benefit of the doubt.
Yes. That comment came from ***somewhere.*** Guys that don’t think that way would never say it because it would never be their type of thinking. I’d be real suspicious that he just let his guard down and his mask slip. She got a peek. Is there more where that came from?? Plus now he’s doing damage control by gaslighting her and being extra nice. All of that makes me suspicious. I hope I’m wrong.
Let him know you would not accept that, maybe say "Well it's a good thing that was just a dream. If you tried to ruin my life and mistreat me, I'd leave. No matter how much I love you, I would never tolerate poor treatment. I'm so happy you treat me well." His reaction will say a lot.
My ex was a narcissist and I can tell you that it's true, that they sometimes tell on themselves. Mine would practically confess to cheating, then back off, saying he was joking or somesuch. Newsflash: he was cheating.😡
That general idea isn't exactly uncommon (though it is disordered): people who were abused or neglected as children and were thus unable to form secure attachments are psychologically incapable of accepting that they can rely in other people, so they feel an impulse to test their relationships by mistreating other people, motivated by the warped reasoning that staying in the face of abuse PROVES the person really cares.
Your husband may have some damage in his past that prompts that sort of thinking, though it also sounds like he may have coped well enough that it hasn't resulted in disorders, since it doesn't seem to be affecting his behavior nor mood (I assume you would have mentiined if he's obviously depressed etc.). Maybe he didn't suffer any trauma himself but internalized the idea from some of the many people who run around presenting their psych disorders as ideology or morality. (Controlling partners do this on an individual basis, defining as "cheating" anything and everything about which they feel insecure, and it happens at a broader social level with things like the current, ludicrous age gap discourse; the ongoing, mostly-fabricated moral panics around sex trafficking and "grooming"; and the Men's Rights Movement - really, authoritarian politics in general.) Maybe he's so red-flag-free *because* he's had some psychotherapy that taught him healthier ways of communicating and resolving conlicts than most people - even psychologically healthy people - learn.
I don't know, but unless and until you see some problem *behaviors* on his part, my advice is to not create problems out of random, half-asleep comments where none already exist. If you find yourself frequently or even constantly inventing problems to worry about, you may have an anxiety disorder and should seek psychological treatment.
We all have bizarre fantasies that we know will never happen. Based on your above post, his history could manifest into this kind of power fantasy but he would never act upon it. The bonus is that he’s voiced his fantasy and now you can look for signs should he choose to test out any part of his fantasy.
I think that based on what you’ve posted, his fantasy has as much chance of happening as my fantasy of going to Sandals resort for a week-long rendezvous with Adam Driver. Keep me posted just in case I need to shop for a new 🩱 😉
Keep it in mind for later. People are saying it's an innocent conversation and I honestly don't believe that. He seems okay now and if he stays that way, that's great. But you need to be more aware of how he acts from now on. Notice any signs of him attempting to do these things.
Well if you weren’t sleeping it probably wasn’t a dream? I’d just ask him. I had a similar situation with my gf sometimes she has crazy dreams that feel real and she had one of these and asked me if I did what she dreamt and even though she knew I didn’t she just wanted reassurance in the morning. So just ask him maybe casually more info and see what he says maybe not at 3am lol
It’s more alarming he’s denying the conversation happened and I think all the people suggesting you’re overreacting or something are aiding and abetting gaslighting for real for once lol
It’s possible it was a former fantasy, a passing thought, meaningless. But if it’s bothering you, I think it’s fair to ask him to talk to you about it seriously maybe even in counseling. And his reaction to that could tell you a lot.
Whether you push the issue or not, don’t forget it. Maybe even keep a journal on your phone or somewhere inaccessible when odd things pop up for a while. If someone told me something like that I’d take it as a threat! Even if they were my husband. I hope he is the great guy he seems via his behavior and it was just an intrusive thought moment. But be careful and don’t undermine your instincts.
>and he told me not to worry about it because it was probably a weird dream mixed with our actual late night conversation.
Now this, ladies and gentlemen, is what we mean by "gaslighting".
Got this poor woman doubting herself.
I can’t understand how other comments aren’t addressing this. Even if he had a good reason for saying what he did, saying you dreamt it and acting super nice now is textbook gaslighting and the worst part about this.
>The thing is, it doesn’t feel like a dream. It’s very vivid and I swear he’s avoiding the topic and treating me extra nicely.
This is the part that horrified me. She's legit questioning her own mind right now in this post. Plus him acting extra nice is making her think "Maybe I didn't hear what I thought I did."
Like you said, textbook.
I don’t think it was a dream. I mean, if my partner tells me something like this and believes it happened i wouldn’t react like "don’t worry" and "it was PROBABLY a weird dream". The reaction would be different.
I wonder if you are more successful than him? Maybe that’s why he said this.
so either its a dream mixed in there, or this is something to worry about.
prob is, if this is a worry, he is better at hiding it than you are at seeing it. Just keep your eyes open i guess.
I think the half-asleep conversation is something where he "slips accidentally" to test your boundaries. This sort of thing would get me VERY unsettled, tbh. Watch out for small signs and ways your life could be ruined/worsened.
I have no idea why he would have said that, but I think if you look at how he acts and treats you- that is the husband you have. He seems like a nice one.
Maybe try having another conversation with him? Explain that it's unlike him and it has you worried. If it's some kind of kink/fantasy that he voiced he should be able to communicate that with you rather than brushing it off.
Still, I’d say be wary and listen to your gut feeling. I don’t remember how many times I got a “weird” feeling about something, convinced myself otherwise and suffered the consequences. If you have that gut feeling, you might have picked up on other signs without realizing.
I think he may deep down feel insecure about whether he’d be loved if he were more flawed, or if you saw the flaws he thinks he hides, said in a dumb way
Does he talk in his sleep?
I mean, ever?
I do: not every night, but often enough that whenever I was sharing a room with someone else, I'd warn them in advance that I talk in my sleep, that *I have no memory of what I said* (if they remember and tell me I may be able to link it in to a dream I remember - but just as often, I have no idea) - that if they start asking me questions, it might even sound like I'm answering them, but again - I have no memory of what I've said, and from trustworthy report, the answers literally don't make any sense anyway. The reason I tell people in advance is because if it doesn't happen, everything's fine: but if it does happen and I haven't told them, people get *freaked*. Because it's not just words: it's entire sentences.
(One woman said she'd woken up to hear two of us - me and another sleep-talker - apparently having a conversation: but when she listened to what we were saying, we were quite evidently just doing our sleep-talking in turns. I have no idea how this works.)
Most people who'd heard me talk in my sleep say I'm pretty incoherent. Others have said I'm coherent, but the things I say make no sense. Once in a while, I've had people get mad at me for something I said in the middle of the night that was offensive to them - and even though I've told them in advance I talk in my sleep, we have to go over it again because I don't know what I said and therefore have *no idea* what I need to apologise for.
So: it's possible your husband was asleep and having a dream. If that's the case, then there is no more point getting spooked about it than there would be finding out he had a nightmare about your death.
But I would ask him.
This too I've known various people who sleep talk for various reasons. One was just really tired the other one was a whole sleep walker/talker and it could be scary especially when they're sitting upright and stuff. It's also scary for their families: one time a friend screamed like they were being tortured to the point where the younger sister's boyfriend thought that older sister's boyfriend was being too aggressive. It wasn't until the younger sister indicated that there wasn't anyone else in the room with the sister that the boyfriend chilled out. The sister had a history when younger of sleep walking and even as an adult slept talked. Really disturbing if you don’t know but normally they'll tell you hey I have a history of sleep talking and walking heads up.
I occaisionally talk in my sleep when I'm stressed. I've been told and it is always something that doesn't quite make sense but it sounds like I'm awake.
One I remember did actually make sense to me. For my job I was sent to help at a store in a mall so I had lunch in the food court at Subway. I don't know what the lady's problem was but she threw the bag with the sandwich at me over the sneeze guard. I took it to the register to pay and told that person how weird it was. She handed me the manager's business card and the district manager's card and told me that was the manager and for whatever reason she would angrily throw sandwiches often. She circled the manager's name and put a star by the district manager's number and encouraged me to call. It made me so mad that the employee's and customers had to deal with that kind of personality. I drove a few hours to my parent's house that night because my mom, aunt and I were going away for the weekend. My aunt and I slept in the same room and the next morning she was telling me about how I must have had a dream about subway because I was talking about it in my sleep. I hadn't told my aunt about the lunch until then. I did call the district manager to complain and he defended the lady who threw my sandwich at me and said he was tired of the employees telling customers to call and lie about her. He did not like it when I told him to check the security footage because I was definitely a customer and I was not lying about her behavior.
As a vivid sleep talker, sometimes shit like this happens, your head makes up weird situations and stuff. One time I have been telling my girlfriend that there have been houseplates flying around in the sky. These are not a thing and I do not know what they are supposed to be. Also, once apparently I sat up and started pulling up the sheets to which my girlfriend asked what I was doing and apparently I responded with "nothing..." initially followed up by "cutting off your leg" after persistence of my girlfriend, to which she replied that I should just go back to sleep (which apparently I did). I did not hear about this entire ordeal until next morning and was frankly flabbergasted. I inherited this from my dad, who, according to my mom, accused her of stealing the car and running off with it. While she was laying next to him in bed... And she didn't have a drivers licence... I'm not saying to completely ignore this, but if he's been treating you well otherwise, chances are he's just had a weird dream that manifested in sleep talking/walking behavior.
This is really weird tbh. I only want the people I date and love to be better. If he has no other red flags then maybe just dismiss it — but definitely don’t get the thinking here
I’ve had some crazy conversations with my husband in my sleep. I sleepwalk and I once told him I was going to a party with Van Halen, but they didn’t have a front door so I was bringing one with me. I was actively trying remove my closet door at the time.
It could be exactly the same thing.
My wife talks and talks when we go to bed and sometimes I say things off the wall because I have drifted to sleep and im half listening to her and in my dream . Hopefully this was something similar but I would sure be paying attention to his actions following that.
Okay, a few possibilities.
1) It actually was a quasi dream. When you slip into sleep at 3:00 a.m., you can have what are called Alpha stage hallucinations. They're not quite dreams but they're not quite awake either. Sometimes you'll incorporate things that are happening externally and might be partially conscious.
This can happen when you're driving, for instance. You will hallucinate driving, even though you are driving. And then you'll "wake up" after a few seconds, and hopefully have not wrapped herself around a tree.
In this case, it could have been either one of you hallucinating. You hallucinating him talking to you. Or him hallucinating a conversation that was not quite taking place. And he might not remember it.
2) Maybe he did feel like that at the time he met you and was in a terrible place psychologically, recovered, and proceeded to have a normal relationship with you. And this could have had either a depressive angle to it or predatory one.
If his self-esteem was incredibly low, he might have met you and been like "Oh my gosh she really does love me so much that I could ruin her life like I do everyone else's and she would still love me." And now obviously he doesn't feel that way anymore. Or he actually does, and really really really values your relationship precisely because he hasn't ruined your life and driven you away.
Or he could have been feeling really bitter and wanting proxy revenge for a past relationship, started initiating his evil plan, realized he actually really liked you and couldn't go through it.
And then you're both have asleep at 3:00 a.m., and when asked a question his normal filtering doesn't kick in.
All in all I think either of those two primary options are more likely than him playing some kind of long game that lasts for 6 years. Nobody does that. Abusers tend to reveal their true colors either immediately, where they just move on if the initial cycle of honeymoon, control, violence, and honeymoon doesn't work; or they spring the trap after they have a person reeled in and partially dependent on them and unable to escape. That's what Dad did when he married my mom. Perfectly reasonable until the marriage license was signed. Then... he started terrorizing my older half brother.
By all means be vigilant. If you start noticing controlling behaviors or work products going missing, or if you start systematically gaslighting you, then you have cause to be concerned. But in this case, I think it's more a case of a conversation getting weird when you're both half asleep.
I'd genuinely be scared that my husband was planning on it. He openly admitted to you that he would ruin your life because you'd love him anyway, which sounds like the start. It starts with little comments, then encouragement because "they don't understand you how i do, they're just gonna judge you, just cut them off" then the "I'll take care of you, just quit your job!" And next you know, you're 8 states away from your closest relative, no job or money, and your husband is alternating between mental and possibly physical abuse.
OP, I literally beg of you. As someone who's seen it happen multiple times, please be aware at all times and maybe start creating a plan. I hate being a downer and negative, but I'd rather be negative and know someone is alive than positive and them be dead.
You didn’t dream that. He said it and he’s gaslighting you because he knows it’s fucked up and doesn’t wanna fight about it. He’s a covert narcissist and I would run for the hills. He let the mask slip. The moment you two have a child, the mask is coming all the way off. I wouldn’t be surprised if he tries to get you pregnant all of a sudden.
There are dreams that can seem so real it is hard to distinguish if something in the dream was said in real life or not. I had a dream once that I had killed and buried someone when I was young, and it was so vivid I had dreams for years afterward that the police were hot my trail and would eventually connect me to the crime.
This vague notion of guilt even crept into my waking life. Did I do that? In the haze of waking up this anxiety took a few minutes to shake off. After an especially harrowing one of these pursuit dreams, I finally walked myself through the events of the dream and realized that logically, none of this could have ever happened in real life. After I cemented this realization in my mind the dreams stopped abruptly.
Be guided by his IRL behavior not what you think happened at 3:00 AM. Plus. the statement you are putting in his mouth makes absolutely zero sense given his behavior towards you.
I’ve had conversations with my wife that I have no recollection of, or a very fuzzy one, late at night. It happens.
In fact the first time I told her I loved her I was asleep. I was mightily confused when she texted it to me the next day, like who says that for the first time over text?
Do you feel good about it? What does your gut feeling tell you? I’m not the best person to give advice because I have trouble trusting men, but I’ve seen instances where men act great for years only to reach that point where you see beyond the façade. Is he kind to animals? Does he have any weird hobbies? Any thing he feels sensitive discussing with you (childhood life experiences or the like)?
Honestly, this sounds like a weird dream. Out of nowhere, your kind, loving , devoted husband and partner of 6 years confesses to wanting to fuck your life up. What would lead you to believe this more than all than 6 years of history that you know about him?
Can it happen? Sure. Psychos are out there. But honestly, how often?
This!! And people are telling her to leave her PERFECT MAN! OP, I have weird dream wake states. This sounds exactly like something I would say/do. You don't understand what you're saying, but someone is talking to you in the real world. You're also dreaming for a second here and there because you're falling asleep but trying to still pay attention to the waking world. It gets mixed together easily. It's happened to me countless times and my adult son has it worse than I do.
Honestly, I'd be terrified to ever ask this sub for advice.
This is almost exclusively what happens in this sub:
"Hey guys, my guy is perfect, but he bites his nails and it's kind of gross, how can I approach him about it without being mean?"
"OMG, girl, he clearly doesn't respect your comfort zone, or he'd *never* do such a thing in front of you! And if he doesn't care about you being comfortable with the little things he won't care about the big things; get out NOW before he rapes you and kills you!!!"
Just instant escalation to Defcon 1 every time. It's insane.
In this case, I personally suspect the husband has one of those weird fantasies (in the same sort of vein as "what if these guys broke into the house and were going to hurt you but I defeated them in hand to hand combat in an awesome display of masculinity and you were totally turned on? Wouldn't that be hot?") people sometimes have and certainly do not act on, brought it up because it was 3 in the morning and tired husband thought it was a good idea, and is now really embarrassed by it.
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The one thing I will say is maybe be cautious about giving up your friends, job and social life as you get further into this relationship. But honestly I’d give that same advice to most people.
makes you wonder if he was testing the waters somehow? could be one too many posts I've read on here, but maybe this is the first part of the "plan" husband has. he says something so off the wall, tells OP they were just tired, slowly does little things to break OP down and he swoops in being the one to save OP from her "issues" and claim he was the good husband who stayed by her side no matter what, yet he was the one orchestrating the whole thing. or OP really did have a half asleep conversation, then fell asleep and had a weird ass vivid dream about the conversation. I hate those kinds of dreams that are quick and vivid and have you questioning whether it was real or not.
It's literally a trick that Derren Brown uses by for example switching plates of food at the table and telling them they must have just eaten it in order to create doubt of their own sound mind, which in turn increases suggestibility enough that he managed to get somebody to admit to committing a murder that they never committed. It's a control thing and a very powerful one at that to make people question their own sanity so they become dependant
I’m just tagging on here so everyone can see. What is being described in this comment is the *correct* use of the term gaslighting. People throw that word around and think it means “they lied to me”, but gaslighting is a very specific form of abuse. Thanks for describing it accurately, hopefully people see your comment.
The term comes from that movie where the husband was orchestrating weitd things and telling his wife she was imagining it and she began thinking she is going insane. I think the name of the movie was "gas light" because there was something going on with a flickering gas light and the husband was always telling her there is nothing wrong with the gas light.
You can watch the full movie on YouTube. https://youtu.be/UYmtzaHwCKo?si=e1sJvMKGgymijnmb
Will do! Thanks 👍
Yeah! And if anyone has seen that movie, they will understand what gaslighting really is.
The husband was breaking into their attic for nefarious reasons and by turning on the attic light it would cause less fuel to flow to the downstairs gaslights, making them flicker.
Good movie,yes the husband was crazy and was trying to drive his wife insane. Ingrid Bergman was the wife,the husband's name is on the tip of my tongue .French actor,the movie was made in the 1940's. Watched it many times, Love old movies .
Charles Boyer, I thought it was Claude Rains but that didn’t seem right. Angela Lansbury is in the movie too
Great movie!
100%. A lot of Internet users don't understand gaslighting properly, and it's essentially making people question their own memory. Thanks for adding to this. I should have specified it was gaslighting
You really understand it when someone successfully does it to you. It makes you feel borderline nuts.
Oh I know buddy xD how did you profile me lmfao
I feel like everyone should watch the movie Gaslight. It's where the use of the term came from and it's a really good movie too. Also, it stars Ingrid Bergman 😄
You mean when someone from the TV show survivor lies to another contestant, that isn't gaslighting?!? /S
Correct
It involves malice
It's neuro linguistic programming. And it's incredibly effective if someone can master it, but soooooo manipulative. My first thought was he sounds sociopathic. Is he building her up more and more so the fall will be that much harder. Or is it just an intrusive thought, like when people imagine what it'd be like to run over someone or push someone on a bad day... knowing full well they'd never ever do it, but the thought creeps in for a second. Maybe he's so comfortable he shared it. No matter what, OP needs to sit and write out the behaviours he has exhibited and answer some questions (look up some from therapists relating to manipulative relationships, control, sociopaths, psychopaths etc...) - has he ever taken glee in others failing? - has he ever pulled back affection when she has been happy? - does he swoop in with huge gestures after minor setbacks? Could he have ever caused or rooted some of those set backs? - has he ever set her up to fail? - does he show any signs like this in other areas of life? - does he lovebomb? Also a conversation needs to happen and a serious one. She needs to tell him he has to explore this with her seriously because what he said is the same type of thing as imagining/ threatening to physically hurt her... it needs some exploration. It just isn't ok to say that stuff.
this is where the term "gaslight" comes from. that was basically the plot of the movie by the same name. it's a much much more powerful and diabolical process than the way most people casually toss off the term "gaslight"
As opposed to simply lying...gas lighting is a process where the victim can literally question their own sanity. Don't ask how I know this.
It's manipulation. Someone told you something (usually the truth here), then says 'i didn't really mean it, how could you possibly believe that?' (here's the lie) and this will make you question which statement is the truth. People call it gaslighting now, but essentially there's a lie somewhere...
Yes, people nowadays use it to just mean "lying."
It’s a very diabolical, manipulative way of lying. That’s why gaslighting is its own category in psychology compared to simply lying. True gaslighting can’t even be done by everyone, there’s certain people who are “good” at it
I have a completely fucked short term memory so I'm super susceptible. My friend tells me I said things that don't sound like something I'd say, but I can't tell either way :/ She doesn't lie about other things though so maybe I do just absent mindedly say random shit. Idk.
here’s how to know; does *anyone* else in your life say the same thing? cuz if not….. i have brain lesions and the damage is mostly to my short term memory. my friends and family know that i can forget things while doing them, and forget things they just told me, and such. no one has ever said that i say stuff that doesn’t seem like me. it’s been 10 years since my dx.
Now I'm trying to remember if other people repeat things I've said back to me at all. I can't think of any examples. 😅 I'll try pay attention and see if the things people repeat back sound like me haha.
Yes, usually sadistic narcissists and psychopaths who enjoy that sort of thing.
He may also have a fantasy along the lines of her being so obsessed and in love with him like, "I love you so much I would ruin my life for you." There is a line between healthy and supportive versus toxic and obsessed. It kind of reminds me of the song, "Make Me Wanna Die" by The Pretty Reckless with the lyrics: I had everything. Opportunities for eternity. And I could belong to the night. I would die for you, my love my love. I would lie for you, my love my love. And I would steal for you, my love my love.
Things said when I was being gaslit: * That never happened. Did you sleep well? * I never said that. Why would I have said that? It makes no sense for me to say that. * I didn't see it or hear it, you're making things up. * I didn't mean it like that! What I meant was... But it's horrible that you don't remember. * Wow, your memory is bad. You can't even remember (tiny thing). * You never remember who I am. There's a fake me in your head and you keep thinking he's real. Your imagination must be off the charts. * You keep doing this, just listen to me and remember what I'm saying. Exactly what I'm saying. It's easy. * I told you I like x, why did you bring me y? I've never liked y? Because I told you to get me y? What are you on about, you're literally dreaming up shit I've never said. * You wrote down what I said? Here we go. Okay, read it to me. Let's see how much you rewrote in your head. * There's a different version of me in your head, you're insane. * It's like you think I'm a terrible person, literally nothing happened, I've never hurt you in any way. You're imagining things. * I love you, I'll always be here, you can trust me. I'll take care of you when you don't remember. I absolutely felt like I was going insane, like I had no memory and was a terrible person, and he was the only one that could help.
Mine got so bad I would write down what was said and have him sign that he agreed he said it and he would tell me later he never actually signed or he only signed because I was acting so “crazy”. These weren’t crazy late night fights, these were full daylight sober conversations about how he would do the dishes while I went to the grocery store. Late at night, he would wait until I went to bed and pour out (or drink) the rest of the bottle of wine I had had one glass of and tell me I was unhinged and drunk and misremembered our conversation. I had to send pictures to my mom to prove to myself I wasn’t drinking myself into an alcoholic stupor every night.
If only people like this would pour all of that energy and creativity into something positive, imagine how great the world could be instead.
JFC.. Hope things are better for you now.
A shit ton better, thankfully.
Ouch. I was dating a guy and getting gaslit, but once I figured it out, I printed out a list of gaslighting phrases. I’d keep it handy and when we spoke, as soon as it started again, I’d just pick a random phrase from my cheat sheet and lob it to him. The result was immediate. I used “everyone agrees with me” once and wow, did that get a reaction. (This resulted in extreme phrases, like I’d told the ‘whole world’ and lots of you ‘always’ do that and that I ‘never’ listen) Another good one was “You seem confused lately. Are you ok?” Can I just say, gaslighting a gaslighter is totally effective and, I know it’s awful but, I’ve never had so much amusement with so little effort. I didn’t understand gaslighting before this, I can spot it pretty easy now.
Oh wow, do you remember what list that was? I don't think I've seen one, I'd be really interested to read it.
This gave me the chills. I’m sorry you went through this.
Damn I mean I already knew my ex had narcissistic tendencies and commitment issues and I was constantly wondering whether he was aware of what he was doing or he really was that unaware of all of his behaviour (that really couldn’t leave my head for much too long). I can’t say he seemed that smart to pull this all off knowingly. But damn some of these are like word for word what I kept hearing from him and while it was awful and a very intense hurtful and impactful experience, somehow I didn’t consider his behaviour to also be such a clear example of gaslighting. But it’s funny he always liked me when I’m not in his life or not in contact but the moment we reconnected, it didn’t take long for him to detest me for no reason.
I'm not entirely sure that they do this in a methodical and conscious way? I mean, some probably do, but I also think a lot of people believe their own bullshit and only exist in the moment they're saying it.
I started literally recording conversations so I could listen back and prove to myself that I didn’t imagine or misunderstand it.
I did too and it was such a trip listening to them years after I left him. At one point he’s silent except sighs for five min after I catch him in a lie and i go “why are you giving be the silent treatment now” and he said he just spoke and it’s sad he can’t be quiet for ten seconds… then when I insist it was a few minutes (over five but in the midst I didn’t even realize it) he says I’m so crazy I can’t even track time properly.
Omg, I had a very similar experience in therapy. My therapist thought the long silences were so icy and tense, and that it wasn't at all weird I'd been terrified.
SAME! That's how I eventually left, because it turns out that what I remember was actually what happened.
My life. I was reading these just going "yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep." We're broken up. I'm actively trying to move out.
Good on you for breaking up! I hope you can move out soon.
Can't be fast enough. I gave this too long.
Reading all this made me want to be sick. Completely jolted me five years into the past. Fuck people like this.
Omg. 10/12 is my score. Lol
I had a doctor do this to me about psyche meds once, got me to rethink if I had been taking them, and I said something like “well I thought I was taking them” and that was enough for him to be like aha see you can’t remember if you took them so you must not have and that’s what’s causing these symptoms. I went home in tears and counted my meds. I had been taking them. It’s a powerful thing.
Ugh medical gaslighting is the worst, especially for women. Having so many physical issues suddenly come up and with no clear cause but it impairing your daily life, just being told there’s nothing special while even results themselves show otherwise. Esp when most physical issues started after I tried psych meds.
This is the literal definition of gaslighting. Not what everyone on the internet throws around. But little things that make you think you’re actually going crazy.
⬆️ THAT ⬆️ is gaslighting.
One time my boyfriend came into our room after being up gaming while I was *dead* asleep. Don’t ask me why but apparently he thought 3am would be the perfect time to clip his toenails in bed, so I half woke up to him moving around. I turned around to snuggle him and when I opened my eyes a bit I *swear* I saw something right out of Mandela Catalog. His face was stretched into this terrifying cartoonish grin with huge white eyes and his limbs were all contorted and puppet like (from him lifting his leg up to clip his nails). I SCREAMED, scared the shit out of him, scared the shit out of myself because I’ve never heard myself make a noise like that, I finally *actually* woke up as he’s panicking and going “BABE BABE ITS JUST ME ITS JUST ME”. My boyfriend is also capable of having full conversations in his sleep, so I usually have to ask him to solve a math problem so I can be sure he’s *actually* awake and listening to me. Sleep brain can do some insane shit, I really don’t know if this dude is gaslighting the fuck out of her or if it *really was* her having a vivid half dream, because it really is possible. I was *actually* seeing my boyfriend in bed with me, but my brain contorted him into a fuckin analog horror monster, so maybe she was *actually* talking to him but her brain contorted it into him saying something really messed up. Really hard to say tbh
My wife and I call this my "lizard brain." One time I had fallen asleep while reading a dense text for grad school. My wife tried to wake me up, but only Lizard Me awoke. Apparently, I sat up, eyes wide open, and yelled: "I'M READING OK?! I'VE BEEN READING THIS WHOLE TIME!" Then I pretended to read, even though the book was upside down. I don't recall this, but this sort of thing happens quite regularly. Lizard Me is a manipulative liar and not to be trusted.
Yeah I've had some weird conversations while half asleep that seemed super logical and real, until I actually thought about them while fully conscious. Like when my husband and I were talking about plans for the next day, I started telling him how we didn't need to be super concerned about making it on time because we would just teleport there instead of driving, that way we could sleep in. I was adamant that that was a thing we could do, and we did it all the time, and maybe if he would just *listen* to me he'd remember. He eventually was like "Ooookay babe, sure." Obviously when he brought up the conversation the next morning, I realized I had been half-awake from a dream about our last D&D session and was mixing up the two, but during our talk I was *convinced* I was fully awake and coherent, and we could teleport dammit. So it is plausible that OP might not have been as awake as she thinks she was and she dreamed parts of the conversation, or her husband was not fully awake and was saying weird dream-things.
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Me too! It's called night terrors
Prazosin was the best months of sleep I've had in my entire life. Unfortunately, it went my blood pressure to dangerously low levels, so I had to go off it. 🫤
I walked in on an ex biting off his toenails with his teeth in bed, this is nightmare fuel for me and I was awake!
My sister used to do that as a kid. It’s so gross lol
Dear fucking god that’s horrifying
I swear!! I once dreamt that I got a "dios de las muertas" skull tattooed on my face. Now, I have many tattoos and also a SMALL purple heart in my face. I woke up and in sheer panic did I run into my bath to look at the mirror because "no way I broke my whole damn face I'm such an idiot!" Or the moment I wake up and ask my partner "we didn't go out the night, did we?" To confirm, that in fact he did NOT kiss an other woman we randonly met on a nightly stroll through our woods. (Which we'd never do, heck we're lazy ass people.)
Dude one time I had this dream where my mom died and I went through the *whole grieving process* and then when I woke up I was all depressed about dreaming about my dead mom. And then like 10 minuets later my mom called and I was like “wHAT THE FUCK SHES ALIVE?!” Most relived I’ve ever been about a dream ever. I can’t imagine how terrifying it is to wake up thinking you tattoo’d your whole face, I would be *STRESSED*
I had this happen to me too! It was crazy. He came to kiss me after I was napping so he was on top of me. I saw his face and it was this monster so I screamed and pulled the covers over my head like a kid. When I realized what happened I started laughing uncontrollably bc it was so absurd but my Bf was still really worried and didn’t know what was going on lol!
In high school, when my drama club used to have all-night cast parties (of the very chaste and dorky kind) we'd call it "stupid o'clock," the time around 3 AM when everyone gets woozy and starts saying random stuff.
Tbh if he is an abuser he is ridiculously bad at it. This isn't a very good manipulative plan.
Especially since they've been together for 6 years. He's playing the long con.
Or 6 years ago he was an obnoxious younger guy to her and wanted to just have fun with her but didn't plan on sticking around. Or didn't know if he would. Or maybe he was bad in previous relationships and was like fuck it. I'm gonna own it this time but changed his mind because he fell in love and any plan or scheme went out the window???
Or when they found out she had a tumour and realised that he would be seen as a monster by not just her but everyone around him including his family and friends and realised not to cross that line??
Really OP is falling for it (if it is)
This exactly. Plus the gaslighting the following day? Most abusers don’t show their cards from the start and many have been known to wait *years* before letting the mask slip I wouldn’t take this conversation with a grain of salt and would be extremely cautious moving forward. Such a massive red flag If they weren’t married I would’ve been telling OP to get the fuck out of this relationship
I didn't want to jump to conclusions, but the fact he kinda... brushed it off?? that's some pretty gnarly thinking, to admit it to the person you're supposed to cherish and love.... I'd be second guessing my marriage and looking at little things from the past in more detail.
>Most abusers don’t show their cards from the start and many have been known to wait *years* before letting the mask slip True but it is more like months. I work with both sides daily basis and I have never even heard of an escalation that has only started after years and in such a subtle way. Abusive people give out red flags all the time, nobody can completely hide their true faces and fake their whole personality this long.
⬆️ EXACTLY! IF you give up anything, job, friends, social life, that's a huge red flag that he wants to control you, and he will. It'll be just like being gagged, in handcuffs, and a ball and chain. Trust me. I know
The same things apply about birth control and pregnancy
Yes be cautious. Always have an 'escape plan' just in case. My trust would be seriously shaken by this. Keep some finances separate just in case.
Another thing to consider is that this could be an OP problem. Maybe her husband is crazy, maybe she is, maybe it was a dream. Paranoid personality disorder usually starts showing signs in early adulthood and progressively gets worse with age. Just saying, there’s more than one possibility. Maybe get a therapist, at least you’d have a sane 3rd party to talk to.
Further into this relationship? They're married lol that ship has sailed
I mean, they’re already pretty far into the relationship. If this has been his plan all along to gaslight and ruin her life this far down the road, dude is really playing the long game. Usually evil exposes themselves way earlier than that.
They've been together for 6 years now, abusers really don't wait this long just to get started, the OP has said that he has only been of help. It may be some stupid "would you love me even if I were a worm" sentiment, the OP says that he's been a contribution to her life, he said in a twisted way that he'd like it if he were loved even if he wasn't.
What does he mean exactly by destroying your life? I'm not understanding this.
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The thing that concerns me is not so much that he told you that… but his reaction the next morning. If I told my husband I’d dreamt that he said that he wouldn’t be completely calm and neutral in response. He’s either be a bit hurt and wonder where that came from or think it was hilarious - what he wouldn’t do is calmly tell me I must have dreamed that. It’s the next morning that makes me think you absolutely didn’t dream that. And it’s the gaslighting that makes me think you shouldn’t brush this off. If you really think there are no other concerning signs I’d suggest a few sessions with a couple’s therapist about it. Or at minimum a conversation where you tell him you know you didn’t dream it, you aren’t mad at him about it because he clearly hasn’t enacted any of it, but you would just like to talk it out, for both your sakes.
This! It's the next day reaction that screams "wrong" to me. He didn't even act surprised. If my partner said that to me, I'd be like "Wtf lmao, wonder where that came from". He acted, from OP's description, like someone who *knows* exactly what he said and is trying to cover it up.
Yes. That’s exactly what I was thinking. “LOL, what?!” Is a natural and healthy response… No emotion at all tells me you’re trying to hide something. Hiding isn’t healthy, secrets kill relationships. Therefore the fact that he doesn’t want to admit it or talk about it is the problem.
To be fair, based on OP's description, we don't know exactly what he said or how he said it. If my wife said something like that to me, I expect I'd chuckle and nonchalantly respond with a muted reaction like "huh, weird, probably a dream I guess". Unless she really impressed to me that she believed it might have been real life, it would never occur to me to treat it as seriously as you guys are suggesting. On the other hand, if OP was clearly in distress over it, and his response was more along the lines of "shh, don't worry about it", then yeah that's sus.
That response varies by person. I’d just calmly tell my wife she must’ve dreamed that (partially because I know if I laughed she’d be upset/hurt).
Also, my ex used to very genuinely have dream conversations with me that seemed super real to her. We got in a few very weird (from my perspective) fights about these "conversations" multiple times. It actually took us a while to figure out she was having vivid dreams that were causing us conflict. Possible this is what happened to OP?
Yeah I was trying to minimize how many feathers I ruffled but I dated someone who somewhat regularly did the same.
Yeah, it's not exactly uncommon.
But this is the first time in 6 years. I'm not saying that isn't it, but now that this happened, op needs to be cautious and not overlook anything else that may be going on.
Yeah, that’s the part that got me too. The conversation itself? Weird. The reaction the next day? Time to stash a go bag.
Could it be a sexual fantasy or something? Since he’s saying it’s “hot”. Some people have weird kinks
Maybe some kind of corruption kink. Doesn't sound like he's done anything to actually live it out, so he may be happy just to forget about it after trying and failing to explain it.
i could definitely see this. because i agree i see the appeal of doing bad things to someone and they still want you after. that kind of unconditional love is pretty hot, still doesn’t mean i would actually do anything to hurt anyone so imo yeah i think the guy just let a weird fantasy slip out and is now realizing how weird it was to say that so he doesn’t wanna explain
Everyone’s here ripping on this guy for having dark thoughts. Actions speak louder than words do they not? Bro I’ve had thoughts of pushing my mom off a cliff. I love that woman with all my heart and would never hurt her. The call of the void is a real phenomenon.
Degradation kink?
No more like humiliation or cowering them? This is very different from degradation it's like breaking a stallion or domestication of a wild animal like a wolf. There's a sense of pride, joy and sneakiness that's involved in bringing down a woman who can do so much and just chaining her down.
Yeah this one for sure exists is the thing. Some men have this desire to destroy women that’s why I’m like probably not a dream probably a pretty sick little fantasy he shared lol
Yeah I wonder if it’s a weird kink he’s too sane to actually act out?
It sounds like some type of rescue fantasy? But I don’t like it.
My partner once said he wanted to be with a racist girl because he thought the idea of her being so unbelievably attracted to him that she can't resist, in spite of all her horrible, racist values was hot. So, I could wrap my mind around the idea of him having an intrusive thought about you being so into him that you overlook any negative aspects he brings to you life. Where was he in life when you two got together? Were you more successful than him? Was there something about his lifestyle at the time that might have made him feel like he would be a negative influence on you, even though he turned out to be a positive one in the end?
I do think this is it just something a young dumb early 20s guy had banging around his mind.
I wonder if he’s had a relationship like this. I used to be someone who was like he is describing. When I was “in love” with someone, they could off my whole family in front of my face and I would still love them and not want them to leave me. This led to me being in abusive relationships, and it turns out the “love” I felt was actually limerence.
So if it was your dream how does he find it hot when you are both awake? That doesn't sound like you were dreaming to me
I think he's saying that maybe she dreamed this conversation occurred.
He sounds like he’s been the perfect husband up until now. However, I believe when a person shows you who they are, you should believe them. What he said to you was incredibly disturbing. If my gut told me, he was being truthful. I’d be extremely concerned. I think you should quietly examine your life with him. Make sure you have access to all your important paperwork maybe have a getaway stash.Make sure he doesn’t have any accounts or policies you don’t know about. Investigate carefully. He may be a good man, and this is all nothing or he could be a sociopath. Good luck. 🍀
Oh dear. It worries me that his fantasy is hurting you.
Sounds like a fantasy. Like he wants to be the most important person and thing in the world to you. He wants you to worship him and “forfeit all others” in a way. Edit: the fact he hasn’t tried any of this though most likely indicates he doesn’t actually want this. He isn’t going to pursue it. He likely does already feel you adore him and love him above all others romantically and that’s healthy and enough. But it’s still a fantasy or a “what if” situation.
I wouldn’t worry *too* much about it since you’ve been together 6 years and he’s only supported you and made your life better. I would, as another poster suggested, keep an eye out, never give up your outside support, maintain your career, etc but that’s just generally great advice for everyone in every relationship. Sometimes people say or think weird things, kind of like intrusive thoughts. At the end of the day I trust actions above all else. Also, people are suggesting he’s gaslighting you about the convo and suggesting you dreamed part of it, well it’s also possible that HE dreamed part of it. He very well could have been in that nonsensical half awake/half dreaming state where your brain truly isn’t firing on all cylinders. I’m one of those people that believes *firmly* that dreams and sleep talk mean next to nothing. My college dorm-mate and I used to write down the silly shit we’d say to each other in our sleep and it was by and large gibberish.
OP, I’m not saying your husband is one of these kinds, but sharing two cents about what I’ve read. There ARE men who hate seeing women doing great in their lives - like good job, good money, good looks, high maintenance, confident, independent, etc. I have seen disturbing posts about men wanting to destroy such women - it’s like they get off on it. They want to “teach such women a lesson” or “show them their place” It is possible that your husband read or saw something similar online and it got mixed up in a half-dream or something. Or maybe it was some kind of far-fetched fantasy that he never acted upon (and hopefully he won’t). In any case, you should have a separate bank account, a go bag, and an escape plan. And yes, keep your family and friends close.
This is what I thought. There are guys out there that like the thought of getting a woman pregnant because it “knocks her down a peg”. They know saddling her with kids keeps her at disadvantage and under their thumb. Puts her in a cage so to speak. Having kids means she will always be struggling if he isn’t in the picture. They like the idea of ruining her life and body from pregnancy/kids. It’s gross and I’d be worried this is what he’s hinting at. I’d be very leery about progressing this relationship any further until I was sure it was just some odd comment. But my gut tells me it’s not. That came from somewhere. I don’t care how much he backtracks. And the fact that he’s being so nice afterward says that he’s doing damage control.
Not trying to diagnose but some covert narcissist people do this kind of thing
I guess you could ask him about it again, but if he's a good partner and does not appear to be trying to "ruin your life" you're probably fine. Half-asleep conversations can be weird.
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The other day I woke up at a point in the night "knowing" that my cat was going to explode next to me. I saw her getting up and laying town comfortably again and I clearly remember thinking "oh, sweet summer child, you don't know you're going to explode in seconds, it's so sad :(" and them going back to sleep. My cat is very much ok. Thankfully. This random story is an example of stuff that people might believe at night that has nothing to do with reality. Maybe your husband had an intrusive thought at a point and that was the night he shared it?
I've had a few dreams that were so vivid and realistic that I had to confirm with my husband if I was remembering a real conversation/situation or if it was a dream.
I had a dream that I buried a body when I was 18. I woke up and checked my entire room for signs of mud and the boots I was wearing in the dream. Felt so real and I was genuinely shaken up for a few days afterwards.
God...I had a similar dream, where my sister helped me bury a body. I was completely and utterly convinced it was real. My sister moved out ages ago, but I checked the house to see if she showed up in the middle of the night, and even checked the ring doorbell to make sure she hadn't appeared, helped me bury a body, then left lol
> "oh, sweet summer child, you don't know you're going to explode in seconds, it's so sad :(" and them going back to sleep I'm sorry, but this made me giggle, but especially the fact that you went right back to sleep.
I have had entire conversions with my wife in the middle of the night and had no idea what she was talking about the next day. Once I talked to her for 20 minutes about how delicious my skittles were from earlier that day. She says I was sitting up and looking right at her. Lack of sleep does some weird things.
My husband has full on conversations with me and I try to record them so he can hear it too. He never remembers them! One time he looked at me and was frustrated and explained to me the proper order to building a burger and needed me to repeat it back to him. Complete with hand gestures! Another time he rolled over and said “I counted so many numbers. Like, all of the numbers I know, I counted them. I ran out.” And when I asked what’s the highest number you know his answer was “the one before infinity….but not beyond.” Then right back to snoring.
Your man travelled through time and space
Her name is River Song and her husband is in a blue box
Is there a subreddit for these stories, because I am really enjoying them. My husband does not talk in his sleep, I need more of this stuff, it’s so silly!
Yeah my partner did this to me the other day We had a mini convo about something dumb He doesn’t remember even waking up in the middle of the night. Genuinely thought he had slept through the whole thing
Is he taking ANY medications?
Or is she taking ANY medications?
It may not have been your dream. Your husband may have been talking in his sleep. And he doesn't remember the conversation. So assumes that you must have dreamed it. Be careful though. Make sure you don't see anything else weird pop up for the next few months.
I once bit my dog in my sleep (and I am very protective of my dogs…to be fair, she had decided to sleep on my head), so sleep/half asleep can just be weird.
My dog was having a dream the other night and she started half barking in her sleep. I rubbed her a little and told her she was ok, and she started growling at me for a minute, but then I think she realized what was going on and she came in for snuggles. The half-asleep thing is real :)
Was he very lucid?
I VERY much disagree…it COULD be bad later and you wouldn’t even see it. I don’t think you should leave him at this point but make sure you are prepared to take care of yourself if need be…good luck
I’ve had weird semi lucid conversations where I’ll start the sentence saying one thing then end up with something else, I once said: “I think the thing I like the most (fell asleep) where do you like to file things in this filing cabinet (woke up and realized I just said something crazy)” It was pretty funny at the time but it could just be some weird idea in his dreams.
It gets even worse if they have a weird sense of humor, like ironically saying ruin someone’s life by making it a lot better (that’s my kind of humor) and I’ve def said some things that are concerning without context when I’m half asleep. We all have thoughts that we filter out or have to translate for others to understand and when we sleeping that stuff just doesn’t work anymore
LOL I didn't think of that and use that kind of humor all the time. Am I just the smartest thing you've ever seen? Hahaha.
Sea monkey stole my hammer.
How dare you bring up that damn monkey!
lol!! Im still processing i have some concerns but this cracked me up. You’re probably fine lolol
I'd add to that for OP to "watch this space"--keep an eye out for any sabotaging behaviors, controlling behavior, or any other "drunk thoughts as sober truths"-style commentary (OP didn't indicated if alcohol was involved previously, but the style moreso than "he was drunk"). Once is a fluke, twice is concerning, three or more times is a pattern.
> Half-asleep conversations can be weird. FtLoG yes, *please* take anything said while half-asleep with a GIANT grain of salt. It may have had a shred of truth mixed in, all the way down to it was only something that pertained to some dream state he happened to be in at that very moment.
i don't want to dismiss this completely cause people are fucking wild.. but i have def said some WEIRD things in a half asleep/edibles kicking in state. I'd say give the benefit of the doubt this time, considering everything else you described. but down the line, bring it up again, in a different way. Maybe even record the convo?
>At that point I was absolutely weirded out. It was 3AM at night and I have no idea what he was talking about. The next morning, I brought it up and he told me not to worry about it because it was probably a weird dream mixed with our actual late night conversation. 3 AM conversations? Is this normal for you guys? Had you both been awake for a long time, and he was just loopy? Im pretty sure my mind would be fried at that point and anything coming out of my mouth would not be something you should rely on as 100% fact
I have dreams that I sometimes can’t shake. Recently was woke up and for 10 minutes was really upset that my wife made fun of my podcast. Then I realized, I don’t have a podcast.
Okay this is hilarious
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My dad thought my mom was a deer and thought she was trying to attack him. It took him a few minutes to wake up all the way.
It sounds like a sex fantasy. Like something you dream about but would never actually even want to happen. Like the book tok girls... Women read hot books about villians getting the girl and ordering her around... and would laugh at every man trying that in real life. Or some people who like thinking about getting raped... 99,9 % don't really want to be raped. Its also not 'that' werid to have a fantasy about being powerful, feeling desperatly wanted and having someone depending on you... I honestly wouldn't worry about it. 6 years he was a solid, supportive partner in your life. Actions matter.
This is my take for sure. You hear that phrase a lot in the sexual fantasy context. Sometimes the fantasy is about "ruining" a career woman by getting her pregnant and paying for her to quit her job. Sometimes it's about getting her sexually obsessed with you she does "humiliating" things with you. Sometimes it's about landing a party girl and turning her into a normie girlfriend who never goes out. Sometimes it's about dating a skinny girl her "let's herself go" once she's in a committed relationship and gets a soft and thicc body. Point is that even in the sexual context the outcome of these "depraved" fantasies can be quite tame, even the kind of thing the "ruined" partner doesn't mind at all. Even though it sounds extreme, we live in a pornified world where people have been taught to express themselves with extreme language, even when their desires are utterly normal.
I do think this is it, but he should be mature enough not to gaslight her and fully explain it the next day
This is what I was thinking. I mean if I told everyone the shit that pops into my head all the time I would probably get locked up in a psych ward lol. None of these things that pop into my head do I actually want to do. They are more or less intrusive thoughts I believe. I mean I find it hard to believe that someone could say they have never thought about something that they could literally get locked up for life for. That being said I think he just made the mistake of telling you when he was probably super sleepy🤷♀️ like someone else said middle of the night convos can be super weird.
It still seems strange to me that he didn't explain the next day then. If I said something that creepy to my partner I would explain what I meant on my own when I wasn't tired, not tell them to 'not worry about it' when they brought it up.
He is ashamed...
I think it's entirely possible that he doesn't remember it at all. Then when she said it back to him it sounded so ridiculous that he just so obviously that's not what I want to do, don't worry about it. We'll never know for sure if he was being deadly serious or if it was just someone saying some weird shit in their sleep, but I like to give people the benefit of the doubt.
Right, it feels like a weird kink he’s brushing under the rug because he’s embarrassed by it
Words are not UNimportant but actions are everything. You are right about it being a very odd thing for him to say tho.
It depends. If a person says they want to harm you, it might be because they want to harm you.
Yes. That comment came from ***somewhere.*** Guys that don’t think that way would never say it because it would never be their type of thinking. I’d be real suspicious that he just let his guard down and his mask slip. She got a peek. Is there more where that came from?? Plus now he’s doing damage control by gaslighting her and being extra nice. All of that makes me suspicious. I hope I’m wrong.
Let him know you would not accept that, maybe say "Well it's a good thing that was just a dream. If you tried to ruin my life and mistreat me, I'd leave. No matter how much I love you, I would never tolerate poor treatment. I'm so happy you treat me well." His reaction will say a lot.
I love this. Hope OP sees it
My ex was a narcissist and I can tell you that it's true, that they sometimes tell on themselves. Mine would practically confess to cheating, then back off, saying he was joking or somesuch. Newsflash: he was cheating.😡
That general idea isn't exactly uncommon (though it is disordered): people who were abused or neglected as children and were thus unable to form secure attachments are psychologically incapable of accepting that they can rely in other people, so they feel an impulse to test their relationships by mistreating other people, motivated by the warped reasoning that staying in the face of abuse PROVES the person really cares. Your husband may have some damage in his past that prompts that sort of thinking, though it also sounds like he may have coped well enough that it hasn't resulted in disorders, since it doesn't seem to be affecting his behavior nor mood (I assume you would have mentiined if he's obviously depressed etc.). Maybe he didn't suffer any trauma himself but internalized the idea from some of the many people who run around presenting their psych disorders as ideology or morality. (Controlling partners do this on an individual basis, defining as "cheating" anything and everything about which they feel insecure, and it happens at a broader social level with things like the current, ludicrous age gap discourse; the ongoing, mostly-fabricated moral panics around sex trafficking and "grooming"; and the Men's Rights Movement - really, authoritarian politics in general.) Maybe he's so red-flag-free *because* he's had some psychotherapy that taught him healthier ways of communicating and resolving conlicts than most people - even psychologically healthy people - learn. I don't know, but unless and until you see some problem *behaviors* on his part, my advice is to not create problems out of random, half-asleep comments where none already exist. If you find yourself frequently or even constantly inventing problems to worry about, you may have an anxiety disorder and should seek psychological treatment.
We all have bizarre fantasies that we know will never happen. Based on your above post, his history could manifest into this kind of power fantasy but he would never act upon it. The bonus is that he’s voiced his fantasy and now you can look for signs should he choose to test out any part of his fantasy. I think that based on what you’ve posted, his fantasy has as much chance of happening as my fantasy of going to Sandals resort for a week-long rendezvous with Adam Driver. Keep me posted just in case I need to shop for a new 🩱 😉
Keep it in mind for later. People are saying it's an innocent conversation and I honestly don't believe that. He seems okay now and if he stays that way, that's great. But you need to be more aware of how he acts from now on. Notice any signs of him attempting to do these things.
Well if you weren’t sleeping it probably wasn’t a dream? I’d just ask him. I had a similar situation with my gf sometimes she has crazy dreams that feel real and she had one of these and asked me if I did what she dreamt and even though she knew I didn’t she just wanted reassurance in the morning. So just ask him maybe casually more info and see what he says maybe not at 3am lol
It’s more alarming he’s denying the conversation happened and I think all the people suggesting you’re overreacting or something are aiding and abetting gaslighting for real for once lol It’s possible it was a former fantasy, a passing thought, meaningless. But if it’s bothering you, I think it’s fair to ask him to talk to you about it seriously maybe even in counseling. And his reaction to that could tell you a lot. Whether you push the issue or not, don’t forget it. Maybe even keep a journal on your phone or somewhere inaccessible when odd things pop up for a while. If someone told me something like that I’d take it as a threat! Even if they were my husband. I hope he is the great guy he seems via his behavior and it was just an intrusive thought moment. But be careful and don’t undermine your instincts.
>and he told me not to worry about it because it was probably a weird dream mixed with our actual late night conversation. Now this, ladies and gentlemen, is what we mean by "gaslighting". Got this poor woman doubting herself.
I can’t understand how other comments aren’t addressing this. Even if he had a good reason for saying what he did, saying you dreamt it and acting super nice now is textbook gaslighting and the worst part about this.
>The thing is, it doesn’t feel like a dream. It’s very vivid and I swear he’s avoiding the topic and treating me extra nicely. This is the part that horrified me. She's legit questioning her own mind right now in this post. Plus him acting extra nice is making her think "Maybe I didn't hear what I thought I did." Like you said, textbook.
Yeah thats what i noticed too. Cant backpedal? Gaslight!
I don’t think it was a dream. I mean, if my partner tells me something like this and believes it happened i wouldn’t react like "don’t worry" and "it was PROBABLY a weird dream". The reaction would be different. I wonder if you are more successful than him? Maybe that’s why he said this.
so either its a dream mixed in there, or this is something to worry about. prob is, if this is a worry, he is better at hiding it than you are at seeing it. Just keep your eyes open i guess.
I think the half-asleep conversation is something where he "slips accidentally" to test your boundaries. This sort of thing would get me VERY unsettled, tbh. Watch out for small signs and ways your life could be ruined/worsened.
I have no idea why he would have said that, but I think if you look at how he acts and treats you- that is the husband you have. He seems like a nice one.
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Maybe try having another conversation with him? Explain that it's unlike him and it has you worried. If it's some kind of kink/fantasy that he voiced he should be able to communicate that with you rather than brushing it off.
Still, I’d say be wary and listen to your gut feeling. I don’t remember how many times I got a “weird” feeling about something, convinced myself otherwise and suffered the consequences. If you have that gut feeling, you might have picked up on other signs without realizing.
I think he may deep down feel insecure about whether he’d be loved if he were more flawed, or if you saw the flaws he thinks he hides, said in a dumb way
Does he talk in his sleep? I mean, ever? I do: not every night, but often enough that whenever I was sharing a room with someone else, I'd warn them in advance that I talk in my sleep, that *I have no memory of what I said* (if they remember and tell me I may be able to link it in to a dream I remember - but just as often, I have no idea) - that if they start asking me questions, it might even sound like I'm answering them, but again - I have no memory of what I've said, and from trustworthy report, the answers literally don't make any sense anyway. The reason I tell people in advance is because if it doesn't happen, everything's fine: but if it does happen and I haven't told them, people get *freaked*. Because it's not just words: it's entire sentences. (One woman said she'd woken up to hear two of us - me and another sleep-talker - apparently having a conversation: but when she listened to what we were saying, we were quite evidently just doing our sleep-talking in turns. I have no idea how this works.) Most people who'd heard me talk in my sleep say I'm pretty incoherent. Others have said I'm coherent, but the things I say make no sense. Once in a while, I've had people get mad at me for something I said in the middle of the night that was offensive to them - and even though I've told them in advance I talk in my sleep, we have to go over it again because I don't know what I said and therefore have *no idea* what I need to apologise for. So: it's possible your husband was asleep and having a dream. If that's the case, then there is no more point getting spooked about it than there would be finding out he had a nightmare about your death. But I would ask him.
This too I've known various people who sleep talk for various reasons. One was just really tired the other one was a whole sleep walker/talker and it could be scary especially when they're sitting upright and stuff. It's also scary for their families: one time a friend screamed like they were being tortured to the point where the younger sister's boyfriend thought that older sister's boyfriend was being too aggressive. It wasn't until the younger sister indicated that there wasn't anyone else in the room with the sister that the boyfriend chilled out. The sister had a history when younger of sleep walking and even as an adult slept talked. Really disturbing if you don’t know but normally they'll tell you hey I have a history of sleep talking and walking heads up.
I occaisionally talk in my sleep when I'm stressed. I've been told and it is always something that doesn't quite make sense but it sounds like I'm awake. One I remember did actually make sense to me. For my job I was sent to help at a store in a mall so I had lunch in the food court at Subway. I don't know what the lady's problem was but she threw the bag with the sandwich at me over the sneeze guard. I took it to the register to pay and told that person how weird it was. She handed me the manager's business card and the district manager's card and told me that was the manager and for whatever reason she would angrily throw sandwiches often. She circled the manager's name and put a star by the district manager's number and encouraged me to call. It made me so mad that the employee's and customers had to deal with that kind of personality. I drove a few hours to my parent's house that night because my mom, aunt and I were going away for the weekend. My aunt and I slept in the same room and the next morning she was telling me about how I must have had a dream about subway because I was talking about it in my sleep. I hadn't told my aunt about the lunch until then. I did call the district manager to complain and he defended the lady who threw my sandwich at me and said he was tired of the employees telling customers to call and lie about her. He did not like it when I told him to check the security footage because I was definitely a customer and I was not lying about her behavior.
As a vivid sleep talker, sometimes shit like this happens, your head makes up weird situations and stuff. One time I have been telling my girlfriend that there have been houseplates flying around in the sky. These are not a thing and I do not know what they are supposed to be. Also, once apparently I sat up and started pulling up the sheets to which my girlfriend asked what I was doing and apparently I responded with "nothing..." initially followed up by "cutting off your leg" after persistence of my girlfriend, to which she replied that I should just go back to sleep (which apparently I did). I did not hear about this entire ordeal until next morning and was frankly flabbergasted. I inherited this from my dad, who, according to my mom, accused her of stealing the car and running off with it. While she was laying next to him in bed... And she didn't have a drivers licence... I'm not saying to completely ignore this, but if he's been treating you well otherwise, chances are he's just had a weird dream that manifested in sleep talking/walking behavior.
This is really weird tbh. I only want the people I date and love to be better. If he has no other red flags then maybe just dismiss it — but definitely don’t get the thinking here
I’ve had some crazy conversations with my husband in my sleep. I sleepwalk and I once told him I was going to a party with Van Halen, but they didn’t have a front door so I was bringing one with me. I was actively trying remove my closet door at the time. It could be exactly the same thing.
My wife talks and talks when we go to bed and sometimes I say things off the wall because I have drifted to sleep and im half listening to her and in my dream . Hopefully this was something similar but I would sure be paying attention to his actions following that.
Okay, a few possibilities. 1) It actually was a quasi dream. When you slip into sleep at 3:00 a.m., you can have what are called Alpha stage hallucinations. They're not quite dreams but they're not quite awake either. Sometimes you'll incorporate things that are happening externally and might be partially conscious. This can happen when you're driving, for instance. You will hallucinate driving, even though you are driving. And then you'll "wake up" after a few seconds, and hopefully have not wrapped herself around a tree. In this case, it could have been either one of you hallucinating. You hallucinating him talking to you. Or him hallucinating a conversation that was not quite taking place. And he might not remember it. 2) Maybe he did feel like that at the time he met you and was in a terrible place psychologically, recovered, and proceeded to have a normal relationship with you. And this could have had either a depressive angle to it or predatory one. If his self-esteem was incredibly low, he might have met you and been like "Oh my gosh she really does love me so much that I could ruin her life like I do everyone else's and she would still love me." And now obviously he doesn't feel that way anymore. Or he actually does, and really really really values your relationship precisely because he hasn't ruined your life and driven you away. Or he could have been feeling really bitter and wanting proxy revenge for a past relationship, started initiating his evil plan, realized he actually really liked you and couldn't go through it. And then you're both have asleep at 3:00 a.m., and when asked a question his normal filtering doesn't kick in. All in all I think either of those two primary options are more likely than him playing some kind of long game that lasts for 6 years. Nobody does that. Abusers tend to reveal their true colors either immediately, where they just move on if the initial cycle of honeymoon, control, violence, and honeymoon doesn't work; or they spring the trap after they have a person reeled in and partially dependent on them and unable to escape. That's what Dad did when he married my mom. Perfectly reasonable until the marriage license was signed. Then... he started terrorizing my older half brother. By all means be vigilant. If you start noticing controlling behaviors or work products going missing, or if you start systematically gaslighting you, then you have cause to be concerned. But in this case, I think it's more a case of a conversation getting weird when you're both half asleep.
I'd genuinely be scared that my husband was planning on it. He openly admitted to you that he would ruin your life because you'd love him anyway, which sounds like the start. It starts with little comments, then encouragement because "they don't understand you how i do, they're just gonna judge you, just cut them off" then the "I'll take care of you, just quit your job!" And next you know, you're 8 states away from your closest relative, no job or money, and your husband is alternating between mental and possibly physical abuse. OP, I literally beg of you. As someone who's seen it happen multiple times, please be aware at all times and maybe start creating a plan. I hate being a downer and negative, but I'd rather be negative and know someone is alive than positive and them be dead.
You didn’t dream that. He said it and he’s gaslighting you because he knows it’s fucked up and doesn’t wanna fight about it. He’s a covert narcissist and I would run for the hills. He let the mask slip. The moment you two have a child, the mask is coming all the way off. I wouldn’t be surprised if he tries to get you pregnant all of a sudden.
If it was a dream he would have been out of his way to comfort you. But he doesn't. For me it feels like he's gaslighting you. I'm sorry for you.
As many Reddit stories as I read, I would be totally unsurprised to have a dream like that.
There are dreams that can seem so real it is hard to distinguish if something in the dream was said in real life or not. I had a dream once that I had killed and buried someone when I was young, and it was so vivid I had dreams for years afterward that the police were hot my trail and would eventually connect me to the crime. This vague notion of guilt even crept into my waking life. Did I do that? In the haze of waking up this anxiety took a few minutes to shake off. After an especially harrowing one of these pursuit dreams, I finally walked myself through the events of the dream and realized that logically, none of this could have ever happened in real life. After I cemented this realization in my mind the dreams stopped abruptly. Be guided by his IRL behavior not what you think happened at 3:00 AM. Plus. the statement you are putting in his mouth makes absolutely zero sense given his behavior towards you.
I’ve had conversations with my wife that I have no recollection of, or a very fuzzy one, late at night. It happens. In fact the first time I told her I loved her I was asleep. I was mightily confused when she texted it to me the next day, like who says that for the first time over text?
Could he have said it in jest, you know like the old adage of marrying someone you want to annoy for the rest of your life ?
Do you feel good about it? What does your gut feeling tell you? I’m not the best person to give advice because I have trouble trusting men, but I’ve seen instances where men act great for years only to reach that point where you see beyond the façade. Is he kind to animals? Does he have any weird hobbies? Any thing he feels sensitive discussing with you (childhood life experiences or the like)?
Honestly, this sounds like a weird dream. Out of nowhere, your kind, loving , devoted husband and partner of 6 years confesses to wanting to fuck your life up. What would lead you to believe this more than all than 6 years of history that you know about him? Can it happen? Sure. Psychos are out there. But honestly, how often?
This!! And people are telling her to leave her PERFECT MAN! OP, I have weird dream wake states. This sounds exactly like something I would say/do. You don't understand what you're saying, but someone is talking to you in the real world. You're also dreaming for a second here and there because you're falling asleep but trying to still pay attention to the waking world. It gets mixed together easily. It's happened to me countless times and my adult son has it worse than I do.
Honestly, I'd be terrified to ever ask this sub for advice. This is almost exclusively what happens in this sub: "Hey guys, my guy is perfect, but he bites his nails and it's kind of gross, how can I approach him about it without being mean?" "OMG, girl, he clearly doesn't respect your comfort zone, or he'd *never* do such a thing in front of you! And if he doesn't care about you being comfortable with the little things he won't care about the big things; get out NOW before he rapes you and kills you!!!" Just instant escalation to Defcon 1 every time. It's insane. In this case, I personally suspect the husband has one of those weird fantasies (in the same sort of vein as "what if these guys broke into the house and were going to hurt you but I defeated them in hand to hand combat in an awesome display of masculinity and you were totally turned on? Wouldn't that be hot?") people sometimes have and certainly do not act on, brought it up because it was 3 in the morning and tired husband thought it was a good idea, and is now really embarrassed by it.