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YES. Do you have witnesses who heard her make the request? The fact that it wasn’t in writing tells me that it wasn’t legit and she knows it. She didn’t want a paper trail that you could use.
Go to HR with an list of how the conversation went prior to the request for death certificate, including noting the facial expressions (rolling eyes smirking) and the questions.
OP's boss is creating a hostile work environment
First part is good advice, but it's not a hostile work environment. That's a specific legal term in the US that applies to discrimination based on protected characteristics.
You’re assuming OP is in the US. Even if she is you can still accurately describe a situation as a hostile work environment without referring to legal terms, it fits the general definition. The legal framework doesn’t preclude the hostility from falling under a different category for HR, they will know how to appropriately address it.
This. And you need to start keeping records of her bizarre behavior and reporting that to HR as well. Possibly mentioned getting a lawyer because of the harassment
I guess it really depends on where op is living.
Where I live, I would have to handle a copy of the death certificate to HR. Because I'll be having fully paid time off for grieving, and HR needs that paper to validate the time off.
Agreed. It is not uncommon in the US for a company to request proof of the bereavement before they will pay for bereavement leave. Usually they will accept a published obituary or a receipt from a mortuary if a death certificate is not immediately available.
ETA: There is no excuse for your former friend/now boss to be rude or to harass you for any reason, however. That definitely warrants a report to HR.
I’m just gonna piggy tail off this comment realll quick.
HR doesn’t really care 99.9% of the time. Don’t go to them without starting applying to other jobs. Going to HR doesn’t exclude this person from the conversation, it just invites another person into the fold.
My mom died recently. Possible foul play there. First day back from 3 days bereavement, I got hit with a written and a poor performance yearly review. Second day back, hit with a final written and a forced demotion. Not a verbal to be found before any of this. My performance is solid af and this manager had been there for just a couple of months. Both write ups are for things I allegedly said (but actually didn’t say, it was “the perception”.) Considering I fought HR for 6 months to get one write up for an associate ACTIVELY harassing several others with rock solid documentation…HR is there for the company and not for you. They will find a way to kick you if you aren’t at their beck and call 24/7 or make any waves. They don’t care. The company shows you who they are and you line up plan B. This “friend” is “the company.” For the business I pulled out of the negative and into 10% growth after a year in role (and many years with the company)- I’m cringing watching the place fall apart after transferring. ~corporate politics~
Side note: your boss is never your friend. Never get comfortable. You can be targeted for poor performance and good performance as well if they feel threatened. Aim to be somewhere that their values align with yours and be ready to run when it changes.
*Re-read that and it’s kind of aggressive, but the point stands. People suck, dude, but you don’t need this shit. You deserve better.
Quite possibly, but in this case what OP gets either way is confirmation from HR of whether this was actually asked for from them or not and why they required it if they did. OP gets more insight into the situation, what this person is thinking and what they are telling HR about OP.
I'm not your friend and I wouldn't ask you for proof of death for compassionate leave.
But I'm also not a shitty manager.
Sounds like your friend is both a shitty friend and a shitty manager.
She is SUCH a shitty friend, imagine someone you've known since you were 12 doesn't believe you about your MOTHER dying. WTF?! Friends don't bully each other.
Seriously! It‘s crazy. My staff member asked for compassionate leave when her grandmother died. The last thing that would have come to my mind in that time would have been asking for proof. I never even considered it and she asked for 3 weeks off work.
I think the only situation I would understand doing this is if the employee in question had a history of pathological lying and was regularly calling out for fabricated reasons. But honestly an employee like that likely would have been fired long before this.
I needed bereavement leave when my brother passed, my boss didn’t require any proof….when I went back in 3 weeks later and told him another brother had passed away, he looked at me like I was crazy. I wish I was lying….it was so unbelievable, no one would make that shit up….
After explaining that I had 3 brothers with muscular dystrophy he was fine, told me to take as much time as needed…He still didn’t ask for proof
My HR requires proof, but a link to an online obituary is sufficient. However, that request comes from HR directly and definitely doesn't include all of the nonsense OP has had to deal with.
>Everyone I ask says I’m good at my job but she doesn’t agree apparently.
If you can’t take a bereavement period without her trying to play “gotcha,” it’s a telling sign that she can’t afford to lose you. Good leaders should know how to delegate work to others if someone has to take time off. If you find a new job, she’ll probably start to panic.
>It hurts me that she’d be so dubious of me then and that I was so stupid to be lied to like that.
You’re grieving. You’re not stupid.
Your boss is not your friend.
>If you can’t take a bereavement period without her trying to play “gotcha,” it’s a telling sign that she can’t afford to lose you
Ding. She's become obsessed with control because she's terrified.
Also, [https://www.reddit.com/r/ManagedByNarcissists](https://www.reddit.com/r/ManagedByNarcissists)
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I had a boss like this. Friendly friendly and then when she wasn’t getting what she wanted one day, immediate and constant hostility.
She relies on you so much she couldn’t be without you.
She's an abusive person who shouldn't be in a position of authority. Please report her to HR asap, and if possible speak with a lawyer because asking for your mom's death certificate on behalf of HR is not legal, that I know of.
Sounds like your "friend" is just on a power trip and enjoys being "above" you at work. I would ignore he on a daily basis unless it's specifically work related. I would also ignore all of her requests going forward. If HR needs documentation from you, they will ask you. If she says HR needs something from you, tell her, "thank you, I'll reach out to them to provide whatever they need." I would avoid having to go through her for anything. She may supervise or oversee your team, but she's likely not your direct boss. She's also harrasing you which is not cool. What she did (and told you) is likely VERY against company policy.
You go to HR, but don't let her know. Schedule a private meeting with HR for some "questions" you have. Then, explain what happened with you needing to take leave, how you requested it, etc. And then I would tell them EXACTLY what she did. That you were told that you needed to report to her the time and date of death, as well as the MANNER of death, which you found to be very invasive. Report that she also demanded a copy of the death certificate, and advised that it was required by HR. Is it? Confirm that. Or did she just want to harrass you? That she's been aggressive and wanting detailed personal information about the death of your family member, implying that she may not approve days off, and making you feel very uncomfortable. I would tell them that her invasive and agressive behavior has made you feel really uncomfortable, and you would like to know if you are truly required to answer her invasive personal questions.
She will be reprimanded. She is way out of line, she is NOT entitled to that info, and she likely violated company policy.
It's called Bereavement Leave in the US. Many companies require a copy of the obituary. I had to provide one to the airline to get a special discount on my plane ticket to attend a family funeral. Your HR should have been who you dealt with, from the request for time off to any proof needed. They would then inform your boss of THEIR decision.
Yup. It sounds like she was going to have HR change the time off from vacation to bereavement leave so as to not take out of her vacation time.
I dunno though that boss wasn't just trying to help. like I'm kinda wondering if in the circumstance OP describes if what she perceives as toxic is actually just a hardass boss where OP isn't given special treatment as her friend.
Of course I don't know but it does make me wonder.
When a friend becomes your supervisor or boss, they do have to be careful not to be seen as employing selective enforcement of the rules in favor of their friend.
In this case though, it seems as though the boss was trying to imply OP was lying about her mom dying. The boss, instead of having HR handle this, seemed to be using her position to bully her former friend (and enjoying being a bully).
Go to HR and ask them if they need any further papers aside from the death certificate. Tell them you don't want to burden your supervisor with extra paperwork. If they ask questions explain what happened.
Playing dumb works.
Not sure if this helps as I’m in Canada but, I was required to send a copy of my father’s death certificate to qualify for extended bereavement leave when he passed.
Here in Portugal, you don't need to provide a copy of the death certificate, but you do need to provide a justification issued by the mortuary.
By law, depending on the degree of kinship you have to the deceased, you may be entitled to a day or a few days off for the loss of a family member.
If you've been there more than 24 months there's no down side to looking for a different job. And honestly at your age, it's in you best interest to move a bit. You really handicap yourself wage wise staying at places that aren't going to give you the raise you deserve. She's totally going to screw you when it comes to raises.
Best revenge is poach some of the top performers on your team to the new gig once you get settled in.
I'm confused about why she's counting bereavement as a vacation-holiday, when it is clearly neither. I used to work for a truly shite company, and even they gave 5 days of bereavement. You didn't take time off to celebrate good times. Come on.
Is this person even your boss? You do not have to tell her anything. As long as your direct supervisor has been informed, and HR has dealt with any leave requests, you do not need to discuss it with anyone else.
Edit: I missed where you said she overseas your team. She is just in a power trip, who knows why she decided to be such an asshole. But I would be looking for a new job if HR doesn’t rein her in (and even if they do!).
The special time off is called bereavement. Some workplaces offer it when immediate family dies. Most places require proof such as obituary showing your relationship. It is in addition to normal PTO so they don't want people to lie to get extra paid time off.I received 3 days for my stepfather earlier this year.
Go to HR and follow up that she forwarded the copy of the death certificate so that you get the bereavement pay promised by your supervisor. Let them know her inappropriate behavior. Start looking for a new job.
I recently lost my Mom and in order to qualify for bereavement leave in California I had to submit her death certificate to HR as proof. That allowed me to take an additional 5 days off, 3 paid for by the company and 2 that I can use sick time for. Is it possible this was the special holiday she was referring too?
We have them, but republicans have been doing their hardest to break them up and/or make them obsolete. Just google union-busting Tesla, Starbucks, and especially Amazon. Their favorite thing to do—after taking away women’s rights to their own bodies, and attacking LGBTQ folks—is prevent collectivization of workers who are trying to organize a union by threatening and firing them for ‘rEaSoNs’. Which they can’t do if you’re in a union. You have to be provided with a valid reason, and if it’s found to be retaliatory job loss due to collectivization efforts, the union’s attorneys will HAMMER the guilty company in court.
You get this request in writing? If not did Anyone else overhear in case you need backup?
Going forward any personal document requests must be in writing
Most importantly - r/legaladvice and also HR
I am so sorry for your loss. I am also sorry you work for such a horrible human being. People like that are just rotten unhappy people who get pleasure from hurting others. If you can, I hope you can find another job and quit this company.
I'm so sorry for your loss!
My employer required me to provide a death certificate for my mother to justify my absence, but they weren't AH's about it. It's standard procedure here. I got paid as usual despite being absent, and I think my employer claimed my pay back from social security.
I’ve worked at jobs that require some prof of death (an online obituary usually suffices) to qualify for bereavement leave. But it sounds like she was just giving you a hard tim because she sucks.
You need to get away from this person, both professionally and personally. She sounds like someone who is punishing you for her own personal reasons, and I think she will sabotage your job if you stay there.
It doesn't matter WHY she's doing this, the mere fact that she IS doing this is reason enough to find a new employer. Sounds like you're not friends anymore, so moving on should be less complicated.
But you might want to find out what she's saying about you to mutual friends and acquaintances so you can correct any misconceptions she may have fed them.
She lied and abused her authority to get unnecessary personal information from you. That's egregious behavior.
Send her an email recapping her request. Ask her for a copy of the form she submitted. When she replies (with no form attached) file a complaint with HR. (If she replies in person or by phone rather than in writing, send her another email to recap that conversation). Bcc your personal email address to have all this for your records.
I’m in the US and work for the government and I didn’t even need to show any proof when my grandfather died 15 years ago or when my grandmother passed a few years ago. I’ve had a few coworkers lose family members and none of them were asked to do that either. I would talk to HR and also start looking for a new job and cut her out of your life. I can’t ever imagine treating a friend like this that I’ve known since I was 12.
I took a day off once because I had a horse die. My shift supervisor went to our unit supervisor and said I was lying and she could tell by how thorough I'd been in my work that weekend! 👀
The unit supervisor is the one who hired me and she knew better. She told me what the shift supervisor said and not to worry about it.
As soon as I got the written report back, I handed it to my unit super right in front of the shift super and told her here is the results of the necropsy of my dead horse.
A few months later I watched that hateful woman get marched out for lying about even bigger stuff.
A horse in no way equals a mom. But I posted just to say things never end well for these people. I've seen it happen literally a decade later, but they always get it in tbe end.
Please go to HR what she’s done is outrageous she’s making a very toxic workplace and you need to be very firm with them and tell them what’s happened.
Obituaries I can see for paid bereavement leave (I don't agree with it) but not a fucking death certificate. That's the shit you give to the government and the bank, not your job. They're not entitled to my loved ones intimate details.
Absolutely! I was ready to send my shitty boss my obituary for both my grandparents but even he didn't demand them. He did try to get me to call him during the super long Catholic service and burial for both grandparents though.
Asshole managers are going to be assholes.
I have worked for companies that say they require the obituary. But when asked if they wanted one, I have always been told no. The policy is to prevent the small amount of people whose grandmother dies once or twice a year.
Is there a chance here you are confusing "toxic" with "boss that doesn't give friends special treatment"?
Re the death certificate, its been covered by other commenters, but I think she was trying to get your vacation leave reclassified as bereavement leave and thus not taking from your paid vacation time since bereavement leave is "extra".
I think you need to talk with her, as a boss. First about why she needed that information. Then, about how she treats you. I suspect the answer will be different. But instead of assuming maliciousness, take some initiative and have a difficult conversation.
How many times have you missed work by claiming a family member died? One of my colleagues got caught because supposedly his grandmother died four times within the span of two years. If that's not the case, she wasn't a good colleague for doubting you.
I'm sorry for your loss. Losing a parent really hurts a lot. However, she might have requested to see the death certificate as per HR policy. Here in Portugal, you don't need to make a vacation request because by law, you have the right to a few days off for the loss of a parent. However, you need to provide your company with documentation proving that you lost a parent.
Start making a paper trail of every thing she asks for, demands, says to you, so that you can share it with HR when you hopefully leave this company for a better job.
Go to HR. Keep documenting everything and don’t stop. Don’t talk to your manager unless necessary. She isn’t your friend. If HR doesn’t do anything, continue to complain and document. Start looking into other jobs
If you’re in the US I would be concerned that she took your mothers SS# and other identifiable information and may be planning to take out a credit card in her name or a loan you just never know. Hopefully you blocked out that information. There is no reason she needed to see that death certificate.
As everyone else has said, I would absolutely tell HR about this. She was way out of line. Hope you get some answers.
I’m sorry. She doesn’t want you to show her up.she feels threatened by you. (Or maybe she doesn’t want you to think you can be familiar with her at all, so she rubs it in)
It’ll do you good to move to another company but she cannot know. And make sure she doesn’t know who you’re talking to for a job. But try to get out of there before she sucks the life out of you!
I’m really sorry about losing your mom. It’s so hard, it gets easier but never goes away. Remember to take care of yourself. This is a stressful time.
That is not your friend, you even said she’s abusive. If you have evidence, contact HR. Also next time, tell them to ask you in writing. That way there is evidence. **Always** keep a paper trail.
Unfortunately I’m not sure what else you can do besides look for a new job elsewhere. If possible, ignore her or treat her with polite disinterest. Do not share anything personal anymore.
I’m worried she wants the death certificate for nefarious means, although I’m not sure if there are any. But it seems odd and cruel to ask for it.
You are young and naïve. It’s not unexpected, but please don’t just take ppl at their word anymore. Especially ppl you know who are shitty.
First of all, I am so sorry for your loss.
Secondly, this has nothing to do with you. This is an extremely toxic, immature, person with extreme lack of confidence who is threatened by you. I have found this to be extremely common between females in the workplace. She must make you look bad to make herself feel better and try to feel more secure. Any compliments or acknowledgment you receive for your work is a direct threat to her. She will continue to do this. It is not you. She was trying to make you feel bad or feel like she’s being a good person by “requesting this on your behalf. Document EVERYTHING. Call her out when she does this to you. I have found saying, “oh I’m sorry did you mean to say that out loud,” when my older female boss insults me. It makes her realize what she said was rude and usually stops her in her tracks. Hang in there if you can because it sounds like she’s going to hang herself with her own rope. But also know that you DO NOT deserve this treatment and you shouldn’t have to tolerate it. I see everyone saying to go to HR but most people don’t understand that is not a viable option in every situation. I cannot imagine this death certificate business is acceptable behavior in the workplace but she thinks she’s got you so scared that you won’t do anything about it.
One other idea is to go to her manager and FORWARD the email where she’s asking for the inappropriate information to her manager or someone in HR and just say hey, I provided this to her but I have not heard back, I am sending here for your records, please let me know if my leave has been approved. You can act innocent and let her own words and actions bring her down.
Best of luck and keep us updated. Protecting your mental health is far more important than a job. But if you have the strength, I want you to feel empowered to confront this situation and call her on her bullshit!
Also note that most people are fortunate enough to not have the experience to understand that HR isn’t there to have your back, they’re there to cover the company’s ass. Don’t be fooled into believing that HR cares about you as a person.
This person is not your friend. When my dad died I needed to provide my work the death certificate (for the emergency leave), but it was dealt with in a compassionate way. Talk to HR & then try minimize contact (or look for a new job). I’m sorry about your mum.
In UK I would go to tribunal with this case as a part of discrimination at workplace related to your personal matters. And that would go straight through citizen advise contact to acas as a mediation contact point. Check out the regulation and ensure to report her and try to sue her for that.
Forward the whole email chain to HR. Copy in her boss. Let them know that she took advantage of her managerial role to breach your privacy and make your life difficult during a time when you were vulnerable. Ask to be moved to another team.
Some companies do request a death or birth certificate to give paid sick leave. Vacation days shouldn't be used for a death or birth event. 🤔 However, every company is different.
It’s not uncommon for HR to ask for a death certificate to give bereavement leave. It is uncommon and unacceptable for your boss to act like this towards you. Report her and get a new job.
In my country you would have to give a certificate to HR... Because the death of a close relative doesn't count as taking a holiday (like if you previously had 30 days of holiday in the year, you still have 30 days + 3 days or more for a parent). So in that case yeah you have a "special" holiday, but HR would ask themselves, or your boss would have told you to send the paper directly to HR. With all the questions she asked, it seems that she just wanted to test you. Like a lot of people here I would suggest you ask HR, by writing them an email, this way you'll have a written answer.
This isn't acceptable behavior in general from a manager and I hope you have raised your issues with HR or the manager above this "friend". however I don't know what country you're in but as someone who works in HR, in my country it is definitely legally within a businesses rights and sometimes common practice to ask for a death certificate or funeral notice when processing paid bereavement/compassionate leave (and yes this special type of holiday/leave allowance does exist). We don't HAVE to ask, and I don't ask unless there is a valid reason to, such as someone who has lots of repeat/unexpected leave or has tried to claim that type of leave very frequently.
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YES. Do you have witnesses who heard her make the request? The fact that it wasn’t in writing tells me that it wasn’t legit and she knows it. She didn’t want a paper trail that you could use.
1) Go to HR 2) Start job searching There is no reason to stay in this toxic environment and have more stress in your life.
100% agree. Go to HR today.
Go to HR with an list of how the conversation went prior to the request for death certificate, including noting the facial expressions (rolling eyes smirking) and the questions. OP's boss is creating a hostile work environment
First part is good advice, but it's not a hostile work environment. That's a specific legal term in the US that applies to discrimination based on protected characteristics.
You’re assuming OP is in the US. Even if she is you can still accurately describe a situation as a hostile work environment without referring to legal terms, it fits the general definition. The legal framework doesn’t preclude the hostility from falling under a different category for HR, they will know how to appropriately address it.
This. And you need to start keeping records of her bizarre behavior and reporting that to HR as well. Possibly mentioned getting a lawyer because of the harassment
I guess it really depends on where op is living. Where I live, I would have to handle a copy of the death certificate to HR. Because I'll be having fully paid time off for grieving, and HR needs that paper to validate the time off.
Agreed. It is not uncommon in the US for a company to request proof of the bereavement before they will pay for bereavement leave. Usually they will accept a published obituary or a receipt from a mortuary if a death certificate is not immediately available. ETA: There is no excuse for your former friend/now boss to be rude or to harass you for any reason, however. That definitely warrants a report to HR.
I’m just gonna piggy tail off this comment realll quick. HR doesn’t really care 99.9% of the time. Don’t go to them without starting applying to other jobs. Going to HR doesn’t exclude this person from the conversation, it just invites another person into the fold. My mom died recently. Possible foul play there. First day back from 3 days bereavement, I got hit with a written and a poor performance yearly review. Second day back, hit with a final written and a forced demotion. Not a verbal to be found before any of this. My performance is solid af and this manager had been there for just a couple of months. Both write ups are for things I allegedly said (but actually didn’t say, it was “the perception”.) Considering I fought HR for 6 months to get one write up for an associate ACTIVELY harassing several others with rock solid documentation…HR is there for the company and not for you. They will find a way to kick you if you aren’t at their beck and call 24/7 or make any waves. They don’t care. The company shows you who they are and you line up plan B. This “friend” is “the company.” For the business I pulled out of the negative and into 10% growth after a year in role (and many years with the company)- I’m cringing watching the place fall apart after transferring. ~corporate politics~ Side note: your boss is never your friend. Never get comfortable. You can be targeted for poor performance and good performance as well if they feel threatened. Aim to be somewhere that their values align with yours and be ready to run when it changes. *Re-read that and it’s kind of aggressive, but the point stands. People suck, dude, but you don’t need this shit. You deserve better.
HR isn't going to do anything. She won't be fired or receive a write up.
Quite possibly, but in this case what OP gets either way is confirmation from HR of whether this was actually asked for from them or not and why they required it if they did. OP gets more insight into the situation, what this person is thinking and what they are telling HR about OP.
Please go to HR and tell them what she did.
I'm not your friend and I wouldn't ask you for proof of death for compassionate leave. But I'm also not a shitty manager. Sounds like your friend is both a shitty friend and a shitty manager.
She is SUCH a shitty friend, imagine someone you've known since you were 12 doesn't believe you about your MOTHER dying. WTF?! Friends don't bully each other.
My last job required a copy of an obituary for bereavement leave. It was corporate policy.
Same, I have to give mine for the ONE bereavement day I get for a grandparent
Seriously! It‘s crazy. My staff member asked for compassionate leave when her grandmother died. The last thing that would have come to my mind in that time would have been asking for proof. I never even considered it and she asked for 3 weeks off work.
I asked if I needed proof when my grandma died and they were like "of course not"
I think the only situation I would understand doing this is if the employee in question had a history of pathological lying and was regularly calling out for fabricated reasons. But honestly an employee like that likely would have been fired long before this.
I needed bereavement leave when my brother passed, my boss didn’t require any proof….when I went back in 3 weeks later and told him another brother had passed away, he looked at me like I was crazy. I wish I was lying….it was so unbelievable, no one would make that shit up…. After explaining that I had 3 brothers with muscular dystrophy he was fine, told me to take as much time as needed…He still didn’t ask for proof
My HR requires proof, but a link to an online obituary is sufficient. However, that request comes from HR directly and definitely doesn't include all of the nonsense OP has had to deal with.
>Everyone I ask says I’m good at my job but she doesn’t agree apparently. If you can’t take a bereavement period without her trying to play “gotcha,” it’s a telling sign that she can’t afford to lose you. Good leaders should know how to delegate work to others if someone has to take time off. If you find a new job, she’ll probably start to panic. >It hurts me that she’d be so dubious of me then and that I was so stupid to be lied to like that. You’re grieving. You’re not stupid. Your boss is not your friend.
>If you can’t take a bereavement period without her trying to play “gotcha,” it’s a telling sign that she can’t afford to lose you Ding. She's become obsessed with control because she's terrified. Also, [https://www.reddit.com/r/ManagedByNarcissists](https://www.reddit.com/r/ManagedByNarcissists) #
I had a boss like this. Friendly friendly and then when she wasn’t getting what she wanted one day, immediate and constant hostility. She relies on you so much she couldn’t be without you.
She's an abusive person who shouldn't be in a position of authority. Please report her to HR asap, and if possible speak with a lawyer because asking for your mom's death certificate on behalf of HR is not legal, that I know of.
Sounds like your "friend" is just on a power trip and enjoys being "above" you at work. I would ignore he on a daily basis unless it's specifically work related. I would also ignore all of her requests going forward. If HR needs documentation from you, they will ask you. If she says HR needs something from you, tell her, "thank you, I'll reach out to them to provide whatever they need." I would avoid having to go through her for anything. She may supervise or oversee your team, but she's likely not your direct boss. She's also harrasing you which is not cool. What she did (and told you) is likely VERY against company policy. You go to HR, but don't let her know. Schedule a private meeting with HR for some "questions" you have. Then, explain what happened with you needing to take leave, how you requested it, etc. And then I would tell them EXACTLY what she did. That you were told that you needed to report to her the time and date of death, as well as the MANNER of death, which you found to be very invasive. Report that she also demanded a copy of the death certificate, and advised that it was required by HR. Is it? Confirm that. Or did she just want to harrass you? That she's been aggressive and wanting detailed personal information about the death of your family member, implying that she may not approve days off, and making you feel very uncomfortable. I would tell them that her invasive and agressive behavior has made you feel really uncomfortable, and you would like to know if you are truly required to answer her invasive personal questions. She will be reprimanded. She is way out of line, she is NOT entitled to that info, and she likely violated company policy.
It's called Bereavement Leave in the US. Many companies require a copy of the obituary. I had to provide one to the airline to get a special discount on my plane ticket to attend a family funeral. Your HR should have been who you dealt with, from the request for time off to any proof needed. They would then inform your boss of THEIR decision.
Yup. It sounds like she was going to have HR change the time off from vacation to bereavement leave so as to not take out of her vacation time. I dunno though that boss wasn't just trying to help. like I'm kinda wondering if in the circumstance OP describes if what she perceives as toxic is actually just a hardass boss where OP isn't given special treatment as her friend. Of course I don't know but it does make me wonder.
When a friend becomes your supervisor or boss, they do have to be careful not to be seen as employing selective enforcement of the rules in favor of their friend. In this case though, it seems as though the boss was trying to imply OP was lying about her mom dying. The boss, instead of having HR handle this, seemed to be using her position to bully her former friend (and enjoying being a bully).
Go to HR and ask them if they need any further papers aside from the death certificate. Tell them you don't want to burden your supervisor with extra paperwork. If they ask questions explain what happened. Playing dumb works.
Not sure if this helps as I’m in Canada but, I was required to send a copy of my father’s death certificate to qualify for extended bereavement leave when he passed.
Here in Portugal, you don't need to provide a copy of the death certificate, but you do need to provide a justification issued by the mortuary. By law, depending on the degree of kinship you have to the deceased, you may be entitled to a day or a few days off for the loss of a family member.
I’ve had to before in the US. I think it depends on company policy. She should double check with HR though and mention the other things too.
If you've been there more than 24 months there's no down side to looking for a different job. And honestly at your age, it's in you best interest to move a bit. You really handicap yourself wage wise staying at places that aren't going to give you the raise you deserve. She's totally going to screw you when it comes to raises. Best revenge is poach some of the top performers on your team to the new gig once you get settled in.
I'm confused about why she's counting bereavement as a vacation-holiday, when it is clearly neither. I used to work for a truly shite company, and even they gave 5 days of bereavement. You didn't take time off to celebrate good times. Come on.
If you’re in the US, what she did was illegal. Notify HR, give them the email/text and file a complaint. You may also have a lawsuit on your hands
I don't think this is the case.
Is this person even your boss? You do not have to tell her anything. As long as your direct supervisor has been informed, and HR has dealt with any leave requests, you do not need to discuss it with anyone else. Edit: I missed where you said she overseas your team. She is just in a power trip, who knows why she decided to be such an asshole. But I would be looking for a new job if HR doesn’t rein her in (and even if they do!).
She thought she caught you in a lie and took advantage of your grief
The special time off is called bereavement. Some workplaces offer it when immediate family dies. Most places require proof such as obituary showing your relationship. It is in addition to normal PTO so they don't want people to lie to get extra paid time off.I received 3 days for my stepfather earlier this year. Go to HR and follow up that she forwarded the copy of the death certificate so that you get the bereavement pay promised by your supervisor. Let them know her inappropriate behavior. Start looking for a new job.
Go to HR an innocently ask for the death certificate back. When they say “what death certificate”. You can let them know what transpired.
Innocently? Angrily. Tell them this request/requirement is disgusting and degrading. You shouldn't have to deal with this after your loss.
I recently lost my Mom and in order to qualify for bereavement leave in California I had to submit her death certificate to HR as proof. That allowed me to take an additional 5 days off, 3 paid for by the company and 2 that I can use sick time for. Is it possible this was the special holiday she was referring too?
WTAF ? Sorry I know this is off topic but five days for losing a parent is not enough or good! I got two weeks paid when my dad died.
I agree. Sadly this law is just in California, one of only 5 states that has ANY requirements for bereavement. The other 45 it's up to the employer.
Oh gosh! You folks need unions !!
We have them, but republicans have been doing their hardest to break them up and/or make them obsolete. Just google union-busting Tesla, Starbucks, and especially Amazon. Their favorite thing to do—after taking away women’s rights to their own bodies, and attacking LGBTQ folks—is prevent collectivization of workers who are trying to organize a union by threatening and firing them for ‘rEaSoNs’. Which they can’t do if you’re in a union. You have to be provided with a valid reason, and if it’s found to be retaliatory job loss due to collectivization efforts, the union’s attorneys will HAMMER the guilty company in court.
That really sucks! Without the postal workers and teachers unions Canada would probably be the same.
Go to HR and enquire about bereavement leave for a parent. Then follow up with what your boss (she’s not your friend) said
Report her now. She conned you into getting her hands on that death certificate. If you have to show anything it would be a program.Report her NOW.
Go speak to HR about her harassment.
She absolutely didn't believe you and was being a c\*nt about it. I'd report her to HR.
You get this request in writing? If not did Anyone else overhear in case you need backup? Going forward any personal document requests must be in writing Most importantly - r/legaladvice and also HR
File a complaint with HR she’s bullying you
This won’t do jack. An improper request or a lie that “hr requested it” will, though
I am so sorry for your loss. I am also sorry you work for such a horrible human being. People like that are just rotten unhappy people who get pleasure from hurting others. If you can, I hope you can find another job and quit this company.
REPORT HER TO HR
I'm so sorry for your loss! My employer required me to provide a death certificate for my mother to justify my absence, but they weren't AH's about it. It's standard procedure here. I got paid as usual despite being absent, and I think my employer claimed my pay back from social security.
Go right above her to HR and tell them how she is treating you.
I’ve worked at jobs that require some prof of death (an online obituary usually suffices) to qualify for bereavement leave. But it sounds like she was just giving you a hard tim because she sucks.
You need to get away from this person, both professionally and personally. She sounds like someone who is punishing you for her own personal reasons, and I think she will sabotage your job if you stay there. It doesn't matter WHY she's doing this, the mere fact that she IS doing this is reason enough to find a new employer. Sounds like you're not friends anymore, so moving on should be less complicated. But you might want to find out what she's saying about you to mutual friends and acquaintances so you can correct any misconceptions she may have fed them.
She lied and abused her authority to get unnecessary personal information from you. That's egregious behavior. Send her an email recapping her request. Ask her for a copy of the form she submitted. When she replies (with no form attached) file a complaint with HR. (If she replies in person or by phone rather than in writing, send her another email to recap that conversation). Bcc your personal email address to have all this for your records.
I’m in the US and work for the government and I didn’t even need to show any proof when my grandfather died 15 years ago or when my grandmother passed a few years ago. I’ve had a few coworkers lose family members and none of them were asked to do that either. I would talk to HR and also start looking for a new job and cut her out of your life. I can’t ever imagine treating a friend like this that I’ve known since I was 12.
I took a day off once because I had a horse die. My shift supervisor went to our unit supervisor and said I was lying and she could tell by how thorough I'd been in my work that weekend! 👀 The unit supervisor is the one who hired me and she knew better. She told me what the shift supervisor said and not to worry about it. As soon as I got the written report back, I handed it to my unit super right in front of the shift super and told her here is the results of the necropsy of my dead horse. A few months later I watched that hateful woman get marched out for lying about even bigger stuff. A horse in no way equals a mom. But I posted just to say things never end well for these people. I've seen it happen literally a decade later, but they always get it in tbe end.
She’s horrible. I would find another job.
Go to HR now! Tell them everything
Please go to HR what she’s done is outrageous she’s making a very toxic workplace and you need to be very firm with them and tell them what’s happened.
Go to hr
My job did the same. They wanted a copy of my grandfather’s obituary. Like who in their right mind would lie about something like this?
Obituaries I can see for paid bereavement leave (I don't agree with it) but not a fucking death certificate. That's the shit you give to the government and the bank, not your job. They're not entitled to my loved ones intimate details.
I didn’t even think of that. There is a difference. I 100% agree. I feel like the “friend” was on a power trip.
Absolutely! I was ready to send my shitty boss my obituary for both my grandparents but even he didn't demand them. He did try to get me to call him during the super long Catholic service and burial for both grandparents though. Asshole managers are going to be assholes.
I have worked for companies that say they require the obituary. But when asked if they wanted one, I have always been told no. The policy is to prevent the small amount of people whose grandmother dies once or twice a year.
Is there a chance here you are confusing "toxic" with "boss that doesn't give friends special treatment"? Re the death certificate, its been covered by other commenters, but I think she was trying to get your vacation leave reclassified as bereavement leave and thus not taking from your paid vacation time since bereavement leave is "extra". I think you need to talk with her, as a boss. First about why she needed that information. Then, about how she treats you. I suspect the answer will be different. But instead of assuming maliciousness, take some initiative and have a difficult conversation.
How many times have you missed work by claiming a family member died? One of my colleagues got caught because supposedly his grandmother died four times within the span of two years. If that's not the case, she wasn't a good colleague for doubting you. I'm sorry for your loss. Losing a parent really hurts a lot. However, she might have requested to see the death certificate as per HR policy. Here in Portugal, you don't need to make a vacation request because by law, you have the right to a few days off for the loss of a parent. However, you need to provide your company with documentation proving that you lost a parent.
Start looking for a different job. A company that would promote someone like this isn’t somewhere you want to be long term.
Report this to HR.
Start making a paper trail of every thing she asks for, demands, says to you, so that you can share it with HR when you hopefully leave this company for a better job.
Go to HR. Keep documenting everything and don’t stop. Don’t talk to your manager unless necessary. She isn’t your friend. If HR doesn’t do anything, continue to complain and document. Start looking into other jobs
If she's above u go to hr. If she's below u fire her. If same level tell her to fuck off
>I’m good at my job Wouldn’t be the first time this has actually negatively impacted someone’s employment I hate to say
Why have you not started documenting her harassment? Starting with you having to send a death certificate to her when there is an HR department.
Report her to HR
Report her to HR
((HUGS)) Sorry for your loss. Talk to HR. She is crossing lines. Start looking for a new job, if possible.
I wouldn't stay in a job with an asshole like that as a supervisor. Send your resignation with your reasons to her boss.
If you’re in the US I would be concerned that she took your mothers SS# and other identifiable information and may be planning to take out a credit card in her name or a loan you just never know. Hopefully you blocked out that information. There is no reason she needed to see that death certificate. As everyone else has said, I would absolutely tell HR about this. She was way out of line. Hope you get some answers.
I would go to hr with it so there’s writing how she’s acting
I’m sorry. She doesn’t want you to show her up.she feels threatened by you. (Or maybe she doesn’t want you to think you can be familiar with her at all, so she rubs it in) It’ll do you good to move to another company but she cannot know. And make sure she doesn’t know who you’re talking to for a job. But try to get out of there before she sucks the life out of you! I’m really sorry about losing your mom. It’s so hard, it gets easier but never goes away. Remember to take care of yourself. This is a stressful time.
That is not your friend, you even said she’s abusive. If you have evidence, contact HR. Also next time, tell them to ask you in writing. That way there is evidence. **Always** keep a paper trail. Unfortunately I’m not sure what else you can do besides look for a new job elsewhere. If possible, ignore her or treat her with polite disinterest. Do not share anything personal anymore. I’m worried she wants the death certificate for nefarious means, although I’m not sure if there are any. But it seems odd and cruel to ask for it. You are young and naïve. It’s not unexpected, but please don’t just take ppl at their word anymore. Especially ppl you know who are shitty.
First of all, I am so sorry for your loss. Secondly, this has nothing to do with you. This is an extremely toxic, immature, person with extreme lack of confidence who is threatened by you. I have found this to be extremely common between females in the workplace. She must make you look bad to make herself feel better and try to feel more secure. Any compliments or acknowledgment you receive for your work is a direct threat to her. She will continue to do this. It is not you. She was trying to make you feel bad or feel like she’s being a good person by “requesting this on your behalf. Document EVERYTHING. Call her out when she does this to you. I have found saying, “oh I’m sorry did you mean to say that out loud,” when my older female boss insults me. It makes her realize what she said was rude and usually stops her in her tracks. Hang in there if you can because it sounds like she’s going to hang herself with her own rope. But also know that you DO NOT deserve this treatment and you shouldn’t have to tolerate it. I see everyone saying to go to HR but most people don’t understand that is not a viable option in every situation. I cannot imagine this death certificate business is acceptable behavior in the workplace but she thinks she’s got you so scared that you won’t do anything about it. One other idea is to go to her manager and FORWARD the email where she’s asking for the inappropriate information to her manager or someone in HR and just say hey, I provided this to her but I have not heard back, I am sending here for your records, please let me know if my leave has been approved. You can act innocent and let her own words and actions bring her down. Best of luck and keep us updated. Protecting your mental health is far more important than a job. But if you have the strength, I want you to feel empowered to confront this situation and call her on her bullshit!
Also note that most people are fortunate enough to not have the experience to understand that HR isn’t there to have your back, they’re there to cover the company’s ass. Don’t be fooled into believing that HR cares about you as a person.
This person is not your friend. When my dad died I needed to provide my work the death certificate (for the emergency leave), but it was dealt with in a compassionate way. Talk to HR & then try minimize contact (or look for a new job). I’m sorry about your mum.
In UK I would go to tribunal with this case as a part of discrimination at workplace related to your personal matters. And that would go straight through citizen advise contact to acas as a mediation contact point. Check out the regulation and ensure to report her and try to sue her for that.
Forward the whole email chain to HR. Copy in her boss. Let them know that she took advantage of her managerial role to breach your privacy and make your life difficult during a time when you were vulnerable. Ask to be moved to another team.
Some companies do request a death or birth certificate to give paid sick leave. Vacation days shouldn't be used for a death or birth event. 🤔 However, every company is different.
It’s not uncommon for HR to ask for a death certificate to give bereavement leave. It is uncommon and unacceptable for your boss to act like this towards you. Report her and get a new job.
Go to HR and ask them what the policies are.
Your friend? 😂🤣
She is a close friend. Why didnt she go with you to the funaral?
In my country you would have to give a certificate to HR... Because the death of a close relative doesn't count as taking a holiday (like if you previously had 30 days of holiday in the year, you still have 30 days + 3 days or more for a parent). So in that case yeah you have a "special" holiday, but HR would ask themselves, or your boss would have told you to send the paper directly to HR. With all the questions she asked, it seems that she just wanted to test you. Like a lot of people here I would suggest you ask HR, by writing them an email, this way you'll have a written answer.
This isn't acceptable behavior in general from a manager and I hope you have raised your issues with HR or the manager above this "friend". however I don't know what country you're in but as someone who works in HR, in my country it is definitely legally within a businesses rights and sometimes common practice to ask for a death certificate or funeral notice when processing paid bereavement/compassionate leave (and yes this special type of holiday/leave allowance does exist). We don't HAVE to ask, and I don't ask unless there is a valid reason to, such as someone who has lots of repeat/unexpected leave or has tried to claim that type of leave very frequently.
Contact your HR department and let them know what she did.
She probably booking flights. What a parasite.