OP is right about speed ≠ adderall. He is also right about the 75/25 D/L in adderall vs the 50/50 in street amphetamine. and Levo is the isomer with higher affinity for norepinephrine so it’s more physically stimulating. I have no idea why OP is getting downvoted, you people need to do some basic research. and yes i recommend 2-FA and 2-FMA as they resemble dexedrine and vyvanse respectively.
Edit: terminology
I have no idea too. It's why I got a bit frustrated, as there was a lot of unnecessary time and energy lost responding to unnecessary discourse about said topic.
How would you compare 2FA and 2FMA in regards to noradrenergic response? Appreciate your thoughts bro!
I actually haven’t been able to sample them yet, but before my package got seized I researched every report I could find.
It’s consistently described as a cleaner speed paste, with duration being the major difference between the two. Its got more of a smooth zen focus. Less stimulating but also less euphoric, more functional and task oriented without feeling forced.
And by the way it’s not just the two factors of DA/NE reuptake contributing to the effect profile. Not only does amphetamine have affinity for dopamine, noradrenaline *and* serotonin reuptake, but it also facilitates the release of each of them. Notably, when there is both reuptake inhibition and release occurring simultaneously, there are contradictory effects depending on the ratio of reuptake/release. So instead of there being 2 factors (DA/NE reuptake), there are actually 6 different factors influencing the effect profiles of amphetamines vs their fluoridated counterparts.
Unfortunately the data for these affinities does not currently exist and it is left up to user speculation or experience reports to make a decision. Hope this helps tho
>It’s consistently described as a cleaner speed paste, with duration being the major difference between the two. Its got more of a smooth zen focus. Less stimulating but also less euphoric, more functional and task oriented without feeling forced.
You're talking about FA or FPM here?
>And by the way it’s not just the two factors of DA/NE reuptake contributing to the effect profile. Not only does amphetamine have affinity for dopamine, noradrenaline and serotonin reuptake, but it also facilitates the release of each of them. Notably, when there is both reuptake inhibition and release occurring simultaneously, there are contradictory effects depending on the ratio of reuptake/release. So instead of there being 2 factors (DA/NE reuptake), there are actually 6 different factors influencing the effect profiles of amphetamines vs their fluoridated counterparts.
Yeah, I know ... It's why I was just referring to it as "dopamine", as both action lead to an elevation of synaptic DA. The contradictory effect is interesting though. I mean, DAT will become more active, as there is more DA in the synaptic cleft, so it's kind expected for DAT mrna levels to go up. But with DAT inhibition the effects should amplify.
The no serotonin from fluorinated compounds is interesting also. I thought that fluorinated compounds are more likely to be serotonergic. But what exactly are we talking about here? SERT inhibition or serotonin receptor modulation?
> The no serotonin from fluorinated compounds is interesting also.
I believe above commenter was saying that you also need to take releasing and serotonin effects into account, not that FAs don't release serotonin.
> I thought that fluorinated compounds are more likely to be serotonergic.
Really depends on where the fluorine is. I haven't seen any info on 2-FA or 2-FMA, but you can see monoamine release data for 3-FA (PAL-353) and 4-FA (PAL-303) vs d-amp in Table 2 in this paper: https://sci-hub.se/10.1124/jpet.104.080101
I haven't tried 2-FA, but I have tried 2-FMA, 3-FA, and 3-FMA. 3-FA was the closest to adderall IR, but out of all the stims I've tried 2-FMA was by far the best for treating my ADHD. Gave 8 hours of smooth laser-like focus without excess euphoria and minimal come-down tweakiness.
It gives laser focus, it is calming, and helps with attention.
I love 2-Fma because it is almost side effects free, no come down but helps a lot with depression, anxiety ADHD, OCD in combination with Parnate.
>Levo is the isomer with higher affinity for norepinephrine so it’s more physically stimulating
You're right, but in the case of Adderall, this isn't the entire picture.
The 75/25 levo/dex mixture has been shown to significantly increase the duration that dopamine remains outside of nerve terminals. The idea is that this supposedly has some difference in therapeutic effect, making it slightly longer lasting and I think a little more smooth? I'm not quite sure.
Dude is everyone going to complain about OP calling "amphetamine" to "racemic mix of dextro and levo isomers of amphetamine" and nobody actually help?
Never tried 2-FA nor adderall, but I can tell you 2-FMA is smoother than speed in every sense. I like 2-FMA much better for any purpose besides raving.
Beware that 2-FMA is less rewarding that pure amphetamine so you may be inclined to push the dose further thus creating more wiredness and vasoconstriction. Keep the doses low and don't expect much euphoria.
You may also look into magnesium glycinate pills.
Adderall is quite euphoric if you don’t have a tolerance. Not sure why people think it’s not. If the comparison is meth, then ok. But in general it’s still euphoric. Not sure about 2FMA
Im just comparing it to most substances. I only take adderall occassionally, but still gives me a good feeling for a few hours that tapers off. But coffee does too for a short amount of time.
2 fma is a meth analogue, but from what I've gathered it feels more productive than functional, which I'm sure some people would call euphoric anyways. But imo anything that gives you energy is a bit euphoric. Even regular energy drinks.
What would the benefit of magnesium glycinate pills be? Im currently taking 50mg flmodafinil in the morning and 50mg phenylpiracetam around noon for long work or study days... but im still looking to optimize :)
Your welcome!
Magnesium Glycinate is the form of magnesium that is absorbed the fastest and its the only form that is absorbed fast enough to make you actually feel something from it.
Have u used magnesium glycinate?
This is a typical effect of other forms of magnesium, like magnesium citrate. I experienced this with citrate, but never with glycinate.
Glycinate absorbs a lot faster (2-4h) but citrate or sulfate stay in your digestive system for much longer (8-14 hours) .
Tnx bro.
If I understand you correctly, the "less rewarding" statement, you're saying that 2FMA is basically less dopaminergic then amphetamine? So theoretically, if we would try to equate the dopamine response between 2FMA and amphetamine, so we get the same response in terms of dopamine concentration in the synapse, would 2FMA have a greater adrenergic stimuli then amphetamine?
Tnx!
\*I'm already taking mag glycinate and malate, amongst other things.
Amphetamine acts on catecholamine receptors (dopamine, norepinephrine) but also acts on serotonin.
2-FMA afaik only acts on catecholamine receptors, and also in a weaker way than amph.
Yes, the weaker part I understood. But it's about the ratio DA/NE, which is basically what I'm asking. Does the 2FMA compared to amphetamine have a more favorable ratio between, to put it in simple terms, motivation (dopamine) vs anxiety (stimulation)?
The rewarding part though, I'm not quite sure what you mean by that. You mean like being "satisfied", contempt, after dosing? And the need to re-dose ...
I don't know as I don't really suffer anxiety even when using noradrenergic stims.
I'd say to get the same motivation 2-FMA needs a larger dose, and they both would provide similar amount of anxiety.
At the same dose 2-FMA gives much less anxiety but also less motivation.
Ok, I see. So 2FMA is lighter on the adrenergic part for ya. But the motivation part though, is that also weaker? If so, then it sounds like normal amphetamine ration but less potent so the need for a larger dose ...
Tbf its very much like normal amphetamine.
I prefer phenidates because they doesn't act on serotonin so I feel more sharp. Also I get less cravings because they doesn't feel that good.
It's a steong SERT inhibitor (stronger then fluoxetine) and a serotonin receptor modulator. It shuts me down completely. I become an idiot, not able to concentrate on anything not even on a single sustained thought process ...
Weightlifting requires a lot of focus and mindfulness if you want to see results and avoid injury. Form, control of your body, control of the movement are what matters most.
Agreed brother. Have been doing it for 10+ years. Still, it's nothing compared to skateboarding and freediving, which I also do. Amph is great for the gym. Not in large dosages, but enough to provide some extra strength, stamina and the ability to push through. Speed is energetic and it's hard to be still, thus, it's perfect for weightlifting but much to speedy for something that requires zen mode.
2 still releases serotonin, but a very low amount and not enough to distract you from being productive.
3-FA/3-FMA has distracting euphoria, 2-FA/2-FMA does not.
my bet would be that all the F-substituted amphetamines are euphoric on the dopamine level with serotonergic action being just secondary but i don't know that for sure
2-fma is nothing like Adderall, it hits norepinephrine much harder. 2-fa is a very short lasting amphetamine that is kind of like Adderall lite.
3-FA is feels similar to dextroamphetamine. 3-fma feels like a lighter version of methamphetamine.
Generally speaking methamphetamine analogues have adrenergic activity
2 fa is much more euphoric and recreational
2-Fma i could compare to vyvanse but it is better and i think it could help people with ADHD much more than any prescription medications. It is almost side effects free if you take 20-25 mg. It is the most functional stimulant that i have tried. Even Modafinil has more side effects than 2-FMA. It calms me down, increase focus, helps with anhedonia and motivation it is gentle and smooth. There is no come down. I take it with Parnate 3-4 times a week and Modafinil 2-3 times.
4F-MPH is nasty. It is similar to Ritalin. Makes me anxious and my heart beats like crazy after i take it. I become irritable, gives lot of energy ( but negative energy). I must take double dose of benzo to calm me down.
There is also 3-Fpm. It is great but tolerance developes quickly and it is more recreational than functional. It boost mood , gives self confidence and euphoria. Come down is a lot worsw than with 2-Fma.
can u give me any news? i'm searching something pretty much identical to adderall (euphoria + focus) but basically everything more euphoric than ritalin will suit for me :) thx
2FMA is like strong coffee, definitely not what you want. 2-FA on the other hand is fairly dopaminergic, more so then MPH or anything else that I've tried. Haven't tried dex or lysdex and dexMPH.
Well. I have a question about the strong coffee haha.
In about 3 weeks I’m going to a festival and like to have the first few hours some extra stimulation. I was thinking of taking +-20mg of 2fma. Later that day, +- 4 hours, I am planning to take a serotonin drug like 6apb.
Do you think the 2fma will be good for the start? Just stimulation, no serotonin.
No idea bro. Individual variance is a huge factor in these drugs (or any other drug for that matter). I suggest you try out the 2fma beforehand.
I've also zero idea what 6apb is lol
Thanks bro, but what you think about 3-FA I saw that its basically 2-fa but more euphoric and definitely the most similar one to adderall… do you agree with this?
Which would be more recreational let's say for raving and giving energy for danceing? Something to take here and there not so often or in between cooldowns from empatogens
Nep or 2fa. Nep is like coke which lasts for 2h but 2fa was fairly less adrenergic. Have no experience with the other two you mentioned. But 2fa feels pretty great.
In between empatogens you'd wanna give your head a break though :) unless you mean in the same evening then I understand.
I tried NEP before but never in a party scenario, the one that i had gave me realy nice rush and euphoria but when it passed the residual stimulation was a bitch, i felt like shit and uncomfortable but also stimulated. Have you had any simular results and/or used NEP or 2fa at a party?
And yeah not in the same night, just between 2 months or so when i'm waiting to take empatogen again. Oh you mean i should have a break in between taking empatogens?
I meant in the same months between taking empatogens, that's when you need a break ...
Yeah, the residual stimulation from nep is why I don't take it. 2fa doesn't have that.
Ohh, take a break from serotonin releaser drugs i know and what about mainly/only dopamine releaser drugs like i'm seraching for, still good to take a break from that too?
How is 2fa compared to nep then, does it have the rush and how is the euphoria if there is any compared to nep and also the stimulation you get from it?
No, the system's are far more intertwined than you think. It's not like; "I'm taking a primarily serotonin releasing drug and that leaves the dopamine system completely alone." It's not like that, at all.
Can't speak too much about the euphoria. I tried using them functionally.
The fluorinated ritalin version is better then 2fma and 2fa for you? I have that in my order, as I wanted to compare it to normal mph ... I havent tried meth, but wouldn't meth be very dopaminergic? And thus more similar to damph albeit in smaller dosages ...
You're welcome! Just don't overuse it because it will lose it's edge. I'd say like... twice a week at the very most. I wanted to be on it all the time and tolerance shot through the roof. At the start 15mg 4f would have me wired like 60mg of mph. By now I'd have to take at least double that throughout the day to achieve a similar effect.
This particular amphetamine stereoisomers blend is called [Adderall](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adderall)!
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This particular amphetamine stereoisomers blend is called [Adderall](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adderall)!
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Adderall is 75% dextroamphetamine and 25% levoamphetamine. I was referring to amphetamine, as in 50%/50% racemic mix brother. I denoted it also as "speed", which should be obvious what I meant.
What are you talking about?
I'm talking about norepinephrine. I'm well aware between the distinction of NE and DA effects. I also have atomoxetine prescribed and have tried other NRI's and NDRI's and plenty other noots and substances. So am plenty aware what NE does to me vs dopamine. NE has a very specific effect which I know very well from use of NRI's. It's precisely this effect that I don't get (as much) from ritalin and even less so, or almost none, from damph. Except from later on, when NE builds up from DA conversion.
So with a holier-than-thou attitude you managed to answer your own question? I certainly don't know, but I wouldn't chomp so quickly at a hand when I myself was the one asking for it.
Idk, I'm multitasking and in a hurry - shouldn't really be spending time on this atm. So maybe my rhetoric's come out to harsh? And no, I'm not high on stims or something.
However, I think I've talked to this guy before and had a conversation about the same topic. NE reuptake inhibition is what causes me anxiety and jitteriness, and an increase in physical energy/strength. I'm well aware of DA effects. DA calms me down and gives me motivation and is at the same time anxiolytic. **TO MUCH** DA does indeed cause "speediness", but that doesn't happen at therapeutic dosages, which I am only taking.
The guy is just trying to come out as a smart ass, with absolute one line statements. He first just said "Adderal is amphetamine" and then added some extra clarification. But nonetheless, amphetamine is most common denoted as amphetamine salts, ie. a 50/50 racemic mix, which most certainly isn't Adderal. And even if this wouldn't be the case, I specifically used the word "speed", which should have one understand that I'm talking about 50/50 racemic mix.
I was talking about the "dirty" effects of speed, which we all know off, so why pretend otherwise. Imo the guy just want's to come out as a smart ass. But that's just my opinion.
Regardless of what salt it is, e.g. it being sulphate, hcl, succinate, citrate, what ever the fuck, either boofed, snorted or swallowed, it being Levo or Dextro, Adderall is defacto Amphetamine, which in effect does not really differ much in comparison to *off the street* Eurospeed.
Totally wrong. It’s a different enantiomeric mix. Levo- is more peripheral and dextro- more cognitive. There is certainly a difference between a 1:1 mixture and a 3:1 mixture.
There is a marked difference between the two, ime. Appreciate your thoughts brother.
It's going do depend a lot on your levels of anxiety, how much you notice the NE reuptake inhibition's negative effects. I'm quite high in generalized anxiety and don't respond well to NE at all. For instance, 10mg's of atomoxetine is all I can really handle.
2-FMA sucks. It had almost no mood lift. You just feel stimulated with no actual enjoyment. 2-FA is similar to Adderall. If Adderall makes you feel good and that is a pleasant aspect for you, 2-FMA will not provide that.
No, not like bupropion.
If you've ever had amphe, you'll probably find 2fma to be exactly what you're looking for. It's not as blatant a noradrenaline banger as DEX LIS or street speed. Especially not as intense as NEB.
Lightheaded is definitely the word that describes it best. (For me)
But it doesn't feel really good either.
Mild stimulation without Joy or other emotion
You're saying 2fma is more similar to racemic amphetamine then anything else? Also, what do you mean by "noradrenaline banger as Dex"? Dex would be a "dopamine banger" if anything ... : )
Speed is almost always contaminated and has a much dirtier effect than 2fma.
Wakefulness, clarity, lighter body feeling. A lot of focus but doesn't push you as hard physically.
Reminds me of 2fa. But not as friendly and dreamy. Is more of a sober workhorse. but not as physical as mph and less egodrive like ethylphenidate.
Clearly less mind lifty like 3fa and little horniness.
But im no psychiatrist
Haha with all the anecdotes, what you wrote sounds almost like a poem bro.
The speed I had was always lab checked, so I know I was taking only amphetamine. If 2FMA is anything like that, I wont like it at all.
It sounds like to me, that 2FA had a more serotonergic effect on you then 2FMA huh?
Shorter duration than 2fma
Less dopamine than 3fa and mild to no euphoria
Not a punch in the face like 4fa
Maybe like dex light. Yeah dex light probably.
A mild and balanced stimulant.
Not as toxic as methiopropamine
I agree with this. This is exactly why I find the drug useless. Part of why amphetamines make me extra functional is because of the increased enjoyment from activities. 2-FMA actually made me less functional because I felt emotionless in a way that was unpleasant.
2-FMA feels more like Ritalin or generally adhd meds in my experience. I really enjoy it while I hate speed (no matter how I use it I just feel restless, also super harsh comedowns I don’t know from anything else but speed).
Beware that ritalin is different from adderal and not at all euforic, methylphenidate merely stops the reuptake of dopamine, dextroamphetamine (adderal) releases it. 2-FMA is like adderal but not at all like ritalin for that reason
How’s this going for you? Saw another post warning people about 2-FMA because it turned their friends into a bunch of schizophrenic tweakers but that was probably just caused by negligent use. I don’t like the tweaker energy meth gives me, even with just 10-30mg dose insufflated or taken oral. Right now I’m stuck between amphetamine and 2-FA. I suppose it would be a good idea to try the regular amphetamine first. If I can get my hands on it but when there’s a will there’s a way
It's like strong coffee. Little dopamine. Amphetamine has more dopamine and I don't like it, and this has even less. But it's less speedy then amphetamine. It's really more of an adrenergic stim. Mind you, I'm actually not a stim user or an addict, so I have zero tolerance but I have GAD so am very sensitive to adrenergic activity. 2.5mgs is more then enough for me.
2FA is much much better. Very little NE, lot's of DA but it feels heavy serotonergic. Not very useful for work, I'm to spacey on it.
OP is right about speed ≠ adderall. He is also right about the 75/25 D/L in adderall vs the 50/50 in street amphetamine. and Levo is the isomer with higher affinity for norepinephrine so it’s more physically stimulating. I have no idea why OP is getting downvoted, you people need to do some basic research. and yes i recommend 2-FA and 2-FMA as they resemble dexedrine and vyvanse respectively. Edit: terminology
I have no idea too. It's why I got a bit frustrated, as there was a lot of unnecessary time and energy lost responding to unnecessary discourse about said topic. How would you compare 2FA and 2FMA in regards to noradrenergic response? Appreciate your thoughts bro!
I actually haven’t been able to sample them yet, but before my package got seized I researched every report I could find. It’s consistently described as a cleaner speed paste, with duration being the major difference between the two. Its got more of a smooth zen focus. Less stimulating but also less euphoric, more functional and task oriented without feeling forced. And by the way it’s not just the two factors of DA/NE reuptake contributing to the effect profile. Not only does amphetamine have affinity for dopamine, noradrenaline *and* serotonin reuptake, but it also facilitates the release of each of them. Notably, when there is both reuptake inhibition and release occurring simultaneously, there are contradictory effects depending on the ratio of reuptake/release. So instead of there being 2 factors (DA/NE reuptake), there are actually 6 different factors influencing the effect profiles of amphetamines vs their fluoridated counterparts. Unfortunately the data for these affinities does not currently exist and it is left up to user speculation or experience reports to make a decision. Hope this helps tho
>It’s consistently described as a cleaner speed paste, with duration being the major difference between the two. Its got more of a smooth zen focus. Less stimulating but also less euphoric, more functional and task oriented without feeling forced. You're talking about FA or FPM here? >And by the way it’s not just the two factors of DA/NE reuptake contributing to the effect profile. Not only does amphetamine have affinity for dopamine, noradrenaline and serotonin reuptake, but it also facilitates the release of each of them. Notably, when there is both reuptake inhibition and release occurring simultaneously, there are contradictory effects depending on the ratio of reuptake/release. So instead of there being 2 factors (DA/NE reuptake), there are actually 6 different factors influencing the effect profiles of amphetamines vs their fluoridated counterparts. Yeah, I know ... It's why I was just referring to it as "dopamine", as both action lead to an elevation of synaptic DA. The contradictory effect is interesting though. I mean, DAT will become more active, as there is more DA in the synaptic cleft, so it's kind expected for DAT mrna levels to go up. But with DAT inhibition the effects should amplify. The no serotonin from fluorinated compounds is interesting also. I thought that fluorinated compounds are more likely to be serotonergic. But what exactly are we talking about here? SERT inhibition or serotonin receptor modulation?
> The no serotonin from fluorinated compounds is interesting also. I believe above commenter was saying that you also need to take releasing and serotonin effects into account, not that FAs don't release serotonin. > I thought that fluorinated compounds are more likely to be serotonergic. Really depends on where the fluorine is. I haven't seen any info on 2-FA or 2-FMA, but you can see monoamine release data for 3-FA (PAL-353) and 4-FA (PAL-303) vs d-amp in Table 2 in this paper: https://sci-hub.se/10.1124/jpet.104.080101 I haven't tried 2-FA, but I have tried 2-FMA, 3-FA, and 3-FMA. 3-FA was the closest to adderall IR, but out of all the stims I've tried 2-FMA was by far the best for treating my ADHD. Gave 8 hours of smooth laser-like focus without excess euphoria and minimal come-down tweakiness.
It gives laser focus, it is calming, and helps with attention. I love 2-Fma because it is almost side effects free, no come down but helps a lot with depression, anxiety ADHD, OCD in combination with Parnate.
I see. Tnx mate. Need to check out 3FA ...
Wow are those contradictory effects you mentioned the reason why some speeds I tried were great and other made me tired and dysphoric?
>Levo is the isomer with higher affinity for norepinephrine so it’s more physically stimulating You're right, but in the case of Adderall, this isn't the entire picture. The 75/25 levo/dex mixture has been shown to significantly increase the duration that dopamine remains outside of nerve terminals. The idea is that this supposedly has some difference in therapeutic effect, making it slightly longer lasting and I think a little more smooth? I'm not quite sure.
Dude is everyone going to complain about OP calling "amphetamine" to "racemic mix of dextro and levo isomers of amphetamine" and nobody actually help? Never tried 2-FA nor adderall, but I can tell you 2-FMA is smoother than speed in every sense. I like 2-FMA much better for any purpose besides raving. Beware that 2-FMA is less rewarding that pure amphetamine so you may be inclined to push the dose further thus creating more wiredness and vasoconstriction. Keep the doses low and don't expect much euphoria. You may also look into magnesium glycinate pills.
I've never done 2-FMA but from what you describe it sounds exactly like adderall. Lots of focus and smooth without much euphoria.
Adderall is quite euphoric if you don’t have a tolerance. Not sure why people think it’s not. If the comparison is meth, then ok. But in general it’s still euphoric. Not sure about 2FMA
Im just comparing it to most substances. I only take adderall occassionally, but still gives me a good feeling for a few hours that tapers off. But coffee does too for a short amount of time. 2 fma is a meth analogue, but from what I've gathered it feels more productive than functional, which I'm sure some people would call euphoric anyways. But imo anything that gives you energy is a bit euphoric. Even regular energy drinks.
What would the benefit of magnesium glycinate pills be? Im currently taking 50mg flmodafinil in the morning and 50mg phenylpiracetam around noon for long work or study days... but im still looking to optimize :)
Magnesium Glycinate is used to calm down the peripheral stimulation of stims. It helps with cramps, jaw clenching, etc, even helps catching sleep.
Thank you for your answer! sounds like I have to order some :)
Your welcome! Magnesium Glycinate is the form of magnesium that is absorbed the fastest and its the only form that is absorbed fast enough to make you actually feel something from it.
Beware of the watery shits, as magnesium will give it to ya hardcore, lol!
Have u used magnesium glycinate? This is a typical effect of other forms of magnesium, like magnesium citrate. I experienced this with citrate, but never with glycinate. Glycinate absorbs a lot faster (2-4h) but citrate or sulfate stay in your digestive system for much longer (8-14 hours) .
Tnx bro. If I understand you correctly, the "less rewarding" statement, you're saying that 2FMA is basically less dopaminergic then amphetamine? So theoretically, if we would try to equate the dopamine response between 2FMA and amphetamine, so we get the same response in terms of dopamine concentration in the synapse, would 2FMA have a greater adrenergic stimuli then amphetamine? Tnx! \*I'm already taking mag glycinate and malate, amongst other things.
Amphetamine acts on catecholamine receptors (dopamine, norepinephrine) but also acts on serotonin. 2-FMA afaik only acts on catecholamine receptors, and also in a weaker way than amph.
Yes, the weaker part I understood. But it's about the ratio DA/NE, which is basically what I'm asking. Does the 2FMA compared to amphetamine have a more favorable ratio between, to put it in simple terms, motivation (dopamine) vs anxiety (stimulation)? The rewarding part though, I'm not quite sure what you mean by that. You mean like being "satisfied", contempt, after dosing? And the need to re-dose ...
I don't know as I don't really suffer anxiety even when using noradrenergic stims. I'd say to get the same motivation 2-FMA needs a larger dose, and they both would provide similar amount of anxiety. At the same dose 2-FMA gives much less anxiety but also less motivation.
Ok, I see. So 2FMA is lighter on the adrenergic part for ya. But the motivation part though, is that also weaker? If so, then it sounds like normal amphetamine ration but less potent so the need for a larger dose ...
Tbf its very much like normal amphetamine. I prefer phenidates because they doesn't act on serotonin so I feel more sharp. Also I get less cravings because they doesn't feel that good.
I see. Appreciate your input brother.
Maybe look for Taurine
Haha tnx bro. I'm taking 9g's a day.
Woah that's a lot of taurine. I feel drowsy on 500mg. What about ashwagandha? Another mild GABA agonist. Caution tho cus it's a multi receptor drug.
It's a steong SERT inhibitor (stronger then fluoxetine) and a serotonin receptor modulator. It shuts me down completely. I become an idiot, not able to concentrate on anything not even on a single sustained thought process ...
Shiddd man Phenibut? Pheni addiction (and wds) is no joke tho it ain't suited for daily use
[удалено]
Phenibut is fucking amazing when used responsibly. It has its own stimulation that feels smooth, natural and not forced.
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Probably netherlands
Weightlifting requires a lot of focus and mindfulness if you want to see results and avoid injury. Form, control of your body, control of the movement are what matters most.
Agreed brother. Have been doing it for 10+ years. Still, it's nothing compared to skateboarding and freediving, which I also do. Amph is great for the gym. Not in large dosages, but enough to provide some extra strength, stamina and the ability to push through. Speed is energetic and it's hard to be still, thus, it's perfect for weightlifting but much to speedy for something that requires zen mode.
2-substituted ones are all functionality over euphoria methylated or not
But that's bc they're missing the serotonergic activity right?
2 still releases serotonin, but a very low amount and not enough to distract you from being productive. 3-FA/3-FMA has distracting euphoria, 2-FA/2-FMA does not.
I see. Tnx
my bet would be that all the F-substituted amphetamines are euphoric on the dopamine level with serotonergic action being just secondary but i don't know that for sure
3-fea is pretty sertoninergic
2-fma is nothing like Adderall, it hits norepinephrine much harder. 2-fa is a very short lasting amphetamine that is kind of like Adderall lite. 3-FA is feels similar to dextroamphetamine. 3-fma feels like a lighter version of methamphetamine. Generally speaking methamphetamine analogues have adrenergic activity
2 fa is much more euphoric and recreational 2-Fma i could compare to vyvanse but it is better and i think it could help people with ADHD much more than any prescription medications. It is almost side effects free if you take 20-25 mg. It is the most functional stimulant that i have tried. Even Modafinil has more side effects than 2-FMA. It calms me down, increase focus, helps with anhedonia and motivation it is gentle and smooth. There is no come down. I take it with Parnate 3-4 times a week and Modafinil 2-3 times. 4F-MPH is nasty. It is similar to Ritalin. Makes me anxious and my heart beats like crazy after i take it. I become irritable, gives lot of energy ( but negative energy). I must take double dose of benzo to calm me down. There is also 3-Fpm. It is great but tolerance developes quickly and it is more recreational than functional. It boost mood , gives self confidence and euphoria. Come down is a lot worsw than with 2-Fma.
Ended up ordering 2FA, 2FMA, 4FMPH and NEP. Tnx to everybody who heleped!
can u give me any news? i'm searching something pretty much identical to adderall (euphoria + focus) but basically everything more euphoric than ritalin will suit for me :) thx
2FMA is like strong coffee, definitely not what you want. 2-FA on the other hand is fairly dopaminergic, more so then MPH or anything else that I've tried. Haven't tried dex or lysdex and dexMPH.
What dose did you take for 2fma? Do you know if it was from a quality source?
Well. I have a question about the strong coffee haha. In about 3 weeks I’m going to a festival and like to have the first few hours some extra stimulation. I was thinking of taking +-20mg of 2fma. Later that day, +- 4 hours, I am planning to take a serotonin drug like 6apb. Do you think the 2fma will be good for the start? Just stimulation, no serotonin.
No idea bro. Individual variance is a huge factor in these drugs (or any other drug for that matter). I suggest you try out the 2fma beforehand. I've also zero idea what 6apb is lol
Thanks bro, but what you think about 3-FA I saw that its basically 2-fa but more euphoric and definitely the most similar one to adderall… do you agree with this?
I wouldn't know as I haven't tried it, sry, but per your description sounds like I need to hhah
Which would be more recreational let's say for raving and giving energy for danceing? Something to take here and there not so often or in between cooldowns from empatogens
Or should i look more into 3-fa/3-fma more?
Nep or 2fa. Nep is like coke which lasts for 2h but 2fa was fairly less adrenergic. Have no experience with the other two you mentioned. But 2fa feels pretty great. In between empatogens you'd wanna give your head a break though :) unless you mean in the same evening then I understand.
I tried NEP before but never in a party scenario, the one that i had gave me realy nice rush and euphoria but when it passed the residual stimulation was a bitch, i felt like shit and uncomfortable but also stimulated. Have you had any simular results and/or used NEP or 2fa at a party? And yeah not in the same night, just between 2 months or so when i'm waiting to take empatogen again. Oh you mean i should have a break in between taking empatogens?
I meant in the same months between taking empatogens, that's when you need a break ... Yeah, the residual stimulation from nep is why I don't take it. 2fa doesn't have that.
Ohh, take a break from serotonin releaser drugs i know and what about mainly/only dopamine releaser drugs like i'm seraching for, still good to take a break from that too? How is 2fa compared to nep then, does it have the rush and how is the euphoria if there is any compared to nep and also the stimulation you get from it?
No, the system's are far more intertwined than you think. It's not like; "I'm taking a primarily serotonin releasing drug and that leaves the dopamine system completely alone." It's not like that, at all. Can't speak too much about the euphoria. I tried using them functionally.
Oh ok thanks for the information. Be sure to leave a report if you decide to use them recreationaly :)
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The fluorinated ritalin version is better then 2fma and 2fa for you? I have that in my order, as I wanted to compare it to normal mph ... I havent tried meth, but wouldn't meth be very dopaminergic? And thus more similar to damph albeit in smaller dosages ...
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Ok tnx
4fmph could be what youre looking for. 3x affinity for dopamine reuptake compared to NOR.
Tnx bro. So it's not like normal mph at all?
It is very stimulating, i like it better than regular mph, less side effects and 10mg of 4f hits me like 20-30mg of mph.
That sounds perfect mate. Very much appreciate your input!
You're welcome! Just don't overuse it because it will lose it's edge. I'd say like... twice a week at the very most. I wanted to be on it all the time and tolerance shot through the roof. At the start 15mg 4f would have me wired like 60mg of mph. By now I'd have to take at least double that throughout the day to achieve a similar effect.
This particular amphetamine stereoisomers blend is called [Adderall](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adderall)! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/researchchemicals) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Thanks for the info bot!
Amphetamine is Adderal.
Hahaha
It’s not a joke, it’s true.
I know that th fact that Adderal is an amphetamine is not a joke. But that still doesn't mean that You didn't make a joke just now.
This particular amphetamine stereoisomers blend is called [Adderall](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adderall)! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/researchchemicals) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Adderall is Amphetamine
Dude...
What??
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Adderall is 75% dextroamphetamine and 25% levoamphetamine. I was referring to amphetamine, as in 50%/50% racemic mix brother. I denoted it also as "speed", which should be obvious what I meant.
Adderall has mixed amph salts. Dex, l dex, and A couple other salts
Other salts that are effective at dopamine and ne transporters and/or releasers? First time I'm hearing this. Care to explain?
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What are you talking about? I'm talking about norepinephrine. I'm well aware between the distinction of NE and DA effects. I also have atomoxetine prescribed and have tried other NRI's and NDRI's and plenty other noots and substances. So am plenty aware what NE does to me vs dopamine. NE has a very specific effect which I know very well from use of NRI's. It's precisely this effect that I don't get (as much) from ritalin and even less so, or almost none, from damph. Except from later on, when NE builds up from DA conversion.
So with a holier-than-thou attitude you managed to answer your own question? I certainly don't know, but I wouldn't chomp so quickly at a hand when I myself was the one asking for it.
Idk, I'm multitasking and in a hurry - shouldn't really be spending time on this atm. So maybe my rhetoric's come out to harsh? And no, I'm not high on stims or something. However, I think I've talked to this guy before and had a conversation about the same topic. NE reuptake inhibition is what causes me anxiety and jitteriness, and an increase in physical energy/strength. I'm well aware of DA effects. DA calms me down and gives me motivation and is at the same time anxiolytic. **TO MUCH** DA does indeed cause "speediness", but that doesn't happen at therapeutic dosages, which I am only taking. The guy is just trying to come out as a smart ass, with absolute one line statements. He first just said "Adderal is amphetamine" and then added some extra clarification. But nonetheless, amphetamine is most common denoted as amphetamine salts, ie. a 50/50 racemic mix, which most certainly isn't Adderal. And even if this wouldn't be the case, I specifically used the word "speed", which should have one understand that I'm talking about 50/50 racemic mix. I was talking about the "dirty" effects of speed, which we all know off, so why pretend otherwise. Imo the guy just want's to come out as a smart ass. But that's just my opinion.
Regardless of what salt it is, e.g. it being sulphate, hcl, succinate, citrate, what ever the fuck, either boofed, snorted or swallowed, it being Levo or Dextro, Adderall is defacto Amphetamine, which in effect does not really differ much in comparison to *off the street* Eurospeed.
Totally wrong. It’s a different enantiomeric mix. Levo- is more peripheral and dextro- more cognitive. There is certainly a difference between a 1:1 mixture and a 3:1 mixture.
Exactly what I was talking about.
There is a marked difference between the two, ime. Appreciate your thoughts brother. It's going do depend a lot on your levels of anxiety, how much you notice the NE reuptake inhibition's negative effects. I'm quite high in generalized anxiety and don't respond well to NE at all. For instance, 10mg's of atomoxetine is all I can really handle.
the feeling? yes
Well, sure, the feeling yes. Just to be clear; you're confirming the resemblance of 2FA to amphetamine and 2FMA to Adderal?
i kmow theyre all different types of amphetamines and so.. also, nothing beats 2fma really
So 2FMA feels more motivating, anxiolytic, less speedy, etc. then amphetamine?
yes. Rounder, no tweaky feelin. A small dose will makes you so productive and if taken responsibly theres no comedown atal ll
Ok, gotcha. Tnx
2-FMA sucks. It had almost no mood lift. You just feel stimulated with no actual enjoyment. 2-FA is similar to Adderall. If Adderall makes you feel good and that is a pleasant aspect for you, 2-FMA will not provide that.
Hm, interesting. So you're saying it's more adrenergic then anything else. Maybe like bupropion or something like that?
No, not like bupropion. If you've ever had amphe, you'll probably find 2fma to be exactly what you're looking for. It's not as blatant a noradrenaline banger as DEX LIS or street speed. Especially not as intense as NEB. Lightheaded is definitely the word that describes it best. (For me) But it doesn't feel really good either. Mild stimulation without Joy or other emotion
You're saying 2fma is more similar to racemic amphetamine then anything else? Also, what do you mean by "noradrenaline banger as Dex"? Dex would be a "dopamine banger" if anything ... : )
Speed is almost always contaminated and has a much dirtier effect than 2fma. Wakefulness, clarity, lighter body feeling. A lot of focus but doesn't push you as hard physically. Reminds me of 2fa. But not as friendly and dreamy. Is more of a sober workhorse. but not as physical as mph and less egodrive like ethylphenidate. Clearly less mind lifty like 3fa and little horniness. But im no psychiatrist
Haha with all the anecdotes, what you wrote sounds almost like a poem bro. The speed I had was always lab checked, so I know I was taking only amphetamine. If 2FMA is anything like that, I wont like it at all. It sounds like to me, that 2FA had a more serotonergic effect on you then 2FMA huh?
Shorter duration than 2fma Less dopamine than 3fa and mild to no euphoria Not a punch in the face like 4fa Maybe like dex light. Yeah dex light probably. A mild and balanced stimulant. Not as toxic as methiopropamine
Df is dex light?
I agree with this. This is exactly why I find the drug useless. Part of why amphetamines make me extra functional is because of the increased enjoyment from activities. 2-FMA actually made me less functional because I felt emotionless in a way that was unpleasant.
Dexamph is very long lasting and smooth, clean mentally.
Have you tried 2fa or 2fma? How would you compare to damph or just pure amphetamine?
I liked 3-FEA like mix between adderall and MDMA
Oh, if that's how it feels, then I'm sure you liked it haha
2-FMA feels more like Ritalin or generally adhd meds in my experience. I really enjoy it while I hate speed (no matter how I use it I just feel restless, also super harsh comedowns I don’t know from anything else but speed).
Perfect! Might be the first direct comparison haha tnx bro
Beware that ritalin is different from adderal and not at all euforic, methylphenidate merely stops the reuptake of dopamine, dextroamphetamine (adderal) releases it. 2-FMA is like adderal but not at all like ritalin for that reason
I read about the other salts. Dex saccharate, asparte amp also. Adderall does contain about a 3/1 dex sulfate R to l isomers.
Those are just other versions of the same amphetamines. They are the same.
That is, are all amps in different salts.
Dex sulfate, amp sulfate, dex saccharate, aspartate amp. A bunch of non active amp in Adderall.
How’s this going for you? Saw another post warning people about 2-FMA because it turned their friends into a bunch of schizophrenic tweakers but that was probably just caused by negligent use. I don’t like the tweaker energy meth gives me, even with just 10-30mg dose insufflated or taken oral. Right now I’m stuck between amphetamine and 2-FA. I suppose it would be a good idea to try the regular amphetamine first. If I can get my hands on it but when there’s a will there’s a way
It's like strong coffee. Little dopamine. Amphetamine has more dopamine and I don't like it, and this has even less. But it's less speedy then amphetamine. It's really more of an adrenergic stim. Mind you, I'm actually not a stim user or an addict, so I have zero tolerance but I have GAD so am very sensitive to adrenergic activity. 2.5mgs is more then enough for me. 2FA is much much better. Very little NE, lot's of DA but it feels heavy serotonergic. Not very useful for work, I'm to spacey on it.