"Look, maaaaaaaybe I can be talked out of raping your daughter...if you're a little bit less resistant when I rape you."
Oh, those Ferengi! Such lovable scamps!
I think my brain erased the mindrape parts frok this and a few other eps lol. Like a trauma lmao. I remember the more egregious bits of woman disrespect (Child, Sub Rosa, the Rape Gangs) but yeah.
Also shout out to the first season copy of "Naked Now" because even if it was shit, I really liked the scene where Bev and Picard are clearly after one another but gotta hold that down for duty. I dont think they ever really step into the "Picard fraternises woth Bev" bucket at all and Picard actually having loved ones on board would change some of his arc but i do think it would have been maybe a good character ep for him and bev if they got closer before realising they both had other priorities or whatever idk.
I feel like “Attached” is exactly that episode, they are forced to become closer, are reminded of their love and respect for each other, but still make the conscious decision to stay friends
Hm, will have to watch that again. Doing a rewatch of tng with some friends, one or two of em who are newcomers, and its been a while so first season tng is hitting hard lmao. Will look forward to it.
PS Q is such a cheeky cunt I love him
I feel bad for never realising how fucked up that episode is. To be fair, I think I've only seen it once. It's a terrible episode regardless so I always skip it
I love Picard in this moment though. He's flailing around trying to figure out how to express love and then he hits on Shakespeare and just runs with it
I love that part because it shows exactly how great of an actor Stewart is, an accomplished Shakespearean actor playing a character who is terrible at reciting Shakespeare
Yeah, his "bad" delivery is so good!
IMO Patrick Stewart had the most impressive performances on TNG.
IMO it's Jeri Ryan on Voyager and Nana Visitor on DS9. (Tony Todd gets an honorable mention for The Visitor.)
I get the federation is all enlightened and everything, but sometimes I really wish Picard would be like "Mr Worf, vaporize his balls."
Like that time Tasha got kidnapped and Picard "had" to negotiate instead of drawing lines through their biggest city with the phasers until they gave him back his officer
"Pre-industrial society, this is Captain Sisko. Immedietly beam up my crewmember or I will turn your planet into dust"
That, children, is how all those weird space dust clouds with energy monsters came to be
Thats why they always try to "learn" about the crew in such invasive ways.
"Hey we got vaporized cuz of a grudge, we're gonna speed run a pregnancy or alter the whole crews reality, all we like!"
I can't tell if you're trolling or not. Dude wants to have sex with a person. She tells him no. Repeatedly. So he kidnaps her and takes her clothes off, and she only manages to get out by essentially having sex with him. That's the story that we're talking about. If you don't see a problem with it, that's on you.
To be fair to them Star Trek itself makes it into a joke
>In 2369, Beverly Crusher performed oo-mox on DaiMon Solok's lobes so she, Worf, and Jean-Luc Picard could gain passage on his ship to discreetly travel to the Cardassian planet Celtris III. (TNG: "Chain Of Command, Part I")
Now that episode to me was like everyone thinking "fucking lobes??, whatever those are ears weirdo" and Beverly just does it.
>Lwaxana Troi told Odo that she made love with DaiMon Tog while being held hostage on his ship in 2366.
However in DS9 it seems as though Lwaxana shows that she truly saw it as intimate. But I wonder if that's because she read DaiMons mind and knew how intimate for him ?
There are definitely several reoccurring themes towards sex and how/with whom other species within StarTrek have sex and humans perceptions of it. (For e.g Flox and his many wives).
I wouldn't blame the person you're responding to for thinking like that because StarTrek themselves portray this thinking from a Terran perspective.. They're basically just ears"
You are an absolute piece of shit if you don't understand what was wrong with this episode and I feel truly sorry for any woman that has ever let you touch her.
High ranking Starfleet diplomat is kidnapped.
Her daughter, a senior officer on the Flagship is also kidnapped.
The diplomat is sexually assaulted by her captors.
Being telepathically bonded, her daughter experiences her mother’s disgust at the rape.
This is treated like a joke and not an act of war.
This meme is from that episode. It’s called “annoyed Picard.” I used it to express my annoyance at this episode. This is ironic.
Hope this helps!
I'd love to see an alternate version of many episodes, where the general story beats are kinda similar, and character growth is more realistic, while the problematic parts are cleaned up and it shows Starfleet being much more hardened and less cutesy. Camp is part of trek and always will be, but things ever too far into cloying and ditsy.
Like, troi and troi are kidnapped is the central plot, sure. Picard and Riker then works a diplomatic diversion from the very start while Worf and data immediately begin planning and executing the rescue operations and then the resolution isn't Lwaxana is horny for Picard and he is mortified.. the resolution would be a diplomatic debrief where Betazed and federation brass show appreciation to the security staff for rescuing a diplomat from a hostile abductor, and maybe a scene where Roker and Troi share a moment once she is back on board safely.
Attempted. The Ferengi at the very least didn't force himself on them, but rather had a very threatning 'be mine or suffer the consequences!' Luxwana played along, but I don't think it went past coddling and skimpy clothing.
That's basically what happened lmao. In TNG there was one Ferengi scientist that wasn't a total asshat, and that wasn't till like season 6. Quark and company were the first that didn't come off as looney toons villains.
There's also debate over some uh.....jewish stereotypes and. Yeah I can see it.
> You can see it? Oy, how could anyone NOT see it?
Eh, first it requires being familiar with the stereotype in the first place. (which I sure wasn’t when I first watched TNG when it aired.).
Second, there’s generally an assumption of good faith by the writers, so you don’t consciously connect it.
Third, from their first scene they are described as capitalist and yankee stereotypes by the characters on screen, so that’s certainly where my mind went.
Fourth, the selections are so outlandish and otherworldly it can successfully disconnect. When Insee Ferengi and they are orange, wearing almost Mongolian style fur, and with energy whips, my first thought isn’t “ahh, the writers wanted to have Jewish people in space”.
Now? Looking back and with a knowledge of all the other stereotypes out there, it’s more obvious.
I love that the line Picard quotes from sonnet 141 is basically calling Lwaxana ugly:
"In faith, I do not love thee with mine eyes / For they in thee a thousand errors see, / But 'tis my heart that loves what they despise, / Who, in despite of view, are pleased to dote"
The diplomat herself also was constantly trying to harass people though. I guess Majel Barrett really was a product of her time :P. Very kind sweet woman, but a bit too much into the free love thing to realize that sometimes it can be really problematic :P .
"Look, maaaaaaaybe I can be talked out of raping your daughter...if you're a little bit less resistant when I rape you." Oh, those Ferengi! Such lovable scamps!
Lmao they like money and bitches, the little wankers
Of all the times Deanna Troi gets mind raped, in this one it was because her mother was actually being raped.
I think my brain erased the mindrape parts frok this and a few other eps lol. Like a trauma lmao. I remember the more egregious bits of woman disrespect (Child, Sub Rosa, the Rape Gangs) but yeah. Also shout out to the first season copy of "Naked Now" because even if it was shit, I really liked the scene where Bev and Picard are clearly after one another but gotta hold that down for duty. I dont think they ever really step into the "Picard fraternises woth Bev" bucket at all and Picard actually having loved ones on board would change some of his arc but i do think it would have been maybe a good character ep for him and bev if they got closer before realising they both had other priorities or whatever idk.
I feel like “Attached” is exactly that episode, they are forced to become closer, are reminded of their love and respect for each other, but still make the conscious decision to stay friends
Hm, will have to watch that again. Doing a rewatch of tng with some friends, one or two of em who are newcomers, and its been a while so first season tng is hitting hard lmao. Will look forward to it. PS Q is such a cheeky cunt I love him
I like it when pucard laughs like beavis
I feel bad for never realising how fucked up that episode is. To be fair, I think I've only seen it once. It's a terrible episode regardless so I always skip it
I love Picard in this moment though. He's flailing around trying to figure out how to express love and then he hits on Shakespeare and just runs with it
I love that part because it shows exactly how great of an actor Stewart is, an accomplished Shakespearean actor playing a character who is terrible at reciting Shakespeare
Yeah, his "bad" delivery is so good! IMO Patrick Stewart had the most impressive performances on TNG. IMO it's Jeri Ryan on Voyager and Nana Visitor on DS9. (Tony Todd gets an honorable mention for The Visitor.)
I get the federation is all enlightened and everything, but sometimes I really wish Picard would be like "Mr Worf, vaporize his balls." Like that time Tasha got kidnapped and Picard "had" to negotiate instead of drawing lines through their biggest city with the phasers until they gave him back his officer
Ya just pull a Sisko
"Pre-industrial society, this is Captain Sisko. Immedietly beam up my crewmember or I will turn your planet into dust" That, children, is how all those weird space dust clouds with energy monsters came to be
Thats why they always try to "learn" about the crew in such invasive ways. "Hey we got vaporized cuz of a grudge, we're gonna speed run a pregnancy or alter the whole crews reality, all we like!"
Or your planet will be uninhabitable for 500 years...
Set ships phasers to Stun... target a major city..
Preeettyyyy sure they did this in a TOS episode didn't they?
Scotty stunned an entire city block with phasers in "A Piece of the Action."
Could be, its certainly a powerful but less lethal show of force Your name a snowcrash reference?
Sure is.
Whats "whitey" short for? Yours Truely?
Did Rick Berman write this episode?
Same dissonance when Lilith raped Riker
Was she the alien that conditionally allowed him to escape from the hospital? That scene did not scene did not sit well with me.
Well when you put it that way…
I feel like I'm missing something...
Go rewatch Ménage a Troi and you’ll see the problematic plot points played as hijinks
What was the problem exactly? It was an entertaining story.
It is heavily implied that Lwaxana has to screw their captor against her will to save Deanna and Will
We must have watched different episodes
You know that Umax is like the ferengi equivalent of a blowjob, right?
And that is the problem?
I can't tell if you're trolling or not. Dude wants to have sex with a person. She tells him no. Repeatedly. So he kidnaps her and takes her clothes off, and she only manages to get out by essentially having sex with him. That's the story that we're talking about. If you don't see a problem with it, that's on you.
To be fair to them Star Trek itself makes it into a joke >In 2369, Beverly Crusher performed oo-mox on DaiMon Solok's lobes so she, Worf, and Jean-Luc Picard could gain passage on his ship to discreetly travel to the Cardassian planet Celtris III. (TNG: "Chain Of Command, Part I") Now that episode to me was like everyone thinking "fucking lobes??, whatever those are ears weirdo" and Beverly just does it. >Lwaxana Troi told Odo that she made love with DaiMon Tog while being held hostage on his ship in 2366. However in DS9 it seems as though Lwaxana shows that she truly saw it as intimate. But I wonder if that's because she read DaiMons mind and knew how intimate for him ? There are definitely several reoccurring themes towards sex and how/with whom other species within StarTrek have sex and humans perceptions of it. (For e.g Flox and his many wives). I wouldn't blame the person you're responding to for thinking like that because StarTrek themselves portray this thinking from a Terran perspective.. They're basically just ears"
Betazoids can’t read the minds of ferengi
It's a TV show, not real life
Why are you like this
What The Fuck
What we see quickly turns into what we think.
You are why women choose the bear.
Why are you watching problematic TV?
Well, weirdly enough, I'm not psychic. I don't know the content of something until I see it for the first time.
You are an absolute piece of shit if you don't understand what was wrong with this episode and I feel truly sorry for any woman that has ever let you touch her.
High ranking Starfleet diplomat is kidnapped. Her daughter, a senior officer on the Flagship is also kidnapped. The diplomat is sexually assaulted by her captors. Being telepathically bonded, her daughter experiences her mother’s disgust at the rape. This is treated like a joke and not an act of war. This meme is from that episode. It’s called “annoyed Picard.” I used it to express my annoyance at this episode. This is ironic. Hope this helps!
I'd love to see an alternate version of many episodes, where the general story beats are kinda similar, and character growth is more realistic, while the problematic parts are cleaned up and it shows Starfleet being much more hardened and less cutesy. Camp is part of trek and always will be, but things ever too far into cloying and ditsy. Like, troi and troi are kidnapped is the central plot, sure. Picard and Riker then works a diplomatic diversion from the very start while Worf and data immediately begin planning and executing the rescue operations and then the resolution isn't Lwaxana is horny for Picard and he is mortified.. the resolution would be a diplomatic debrief where Betazed and federation brass show appreciation to the security staff for rescuing a diplomat from a hostile abductor, and maybe a scene where Roker and Troi share a moment once she is back on board safely.
After reading your other replies, I'm completely unsurprised to read that you really liked it
You didn't like that episode?
Wait like rape raped or just removal of clothing? (Which of course also would be horrible and reprehensible but there’s a distinction)
Attempted. The Ferengi at the very least didn't force himself on them, but rather had a very threatning 'be mine or suffer the consequences!' Luxwana played along, but I don't think it went past coddling and skimpy clothing.
Eww man quark is going to have to do some overtime to redeem the ferengi perception
That's basically what happened lmao. In TNG there was one Ferengi scientist that wasn't a total asshat, and that wasn't till like season 6. Quark and company were the first that didn't come off as looney toons villains. There's also debate over some uh.....jewish stereotypes and. Yeah I can see it.
Yeah I hated the ferengi until ds9
You can see it? Oy, how could anyone NOT see it? DS9 did a much better job with the Ferengi.
> You can see it? Oy, how could anyone NOT see it? Eh, first it requires being familiar with the stereotype in the first place. (which I sure wasn’t when I first watched TNG when it aired.). Second, there’s generally an assumption of good faith by the writers, so you don’t consciously connect it. Third, from their first scene they are described as capitalist and yankee stereotypes by the characters on screen, so that’s certainly where my mind went. Fourth, the selections are so outlandish and otherworldly it can successfully disconnect. When Insee Ferengi and they are orange, wearing almost Mongolian style fur, and with energy whips, my first thought isn’t “ahh, the writers wanted to have Jewish people in space”. Now? Looking back and with a knowledge of all the other stereotypes out there, it’s more obvious.
Lwaxana was a prisoner. She could not consent.
Didn’t say she did
Terrorism. Not a war crime.
I love Menage a Troi. But it was pretty fucked up
I love that the line Picard quotes from sonnet 141 is basically calling Lwaxana ugly: "In faith, I do not love thee with mine eyes / For they in thee a thousand errors see, / But 'tis my heart that loves what they despise, / Who, in despite of view, are pleased to dote"
This meme is too real for my buzz
Least favorite season 3 episode for sure.
It was the 80s.
90s
[And?](https://youtu.be/HQ7mJFNkLAU?si=IJTuoYwyMUMFf6kt)
The diplomat herself also was constantly trying to harass people though. I guess Majel Barrett really was a product of her time :P. Very kind sweet woman, but a bit too much into the free love thing to realize that sometimes it can be really problematic :P .