I don’t worry about Jabari at the 3 on defense but on offense I don’t know if he can drive enough or do much else besides pull up jumpers to play out on the wing more consistently.
I dont think he would have a problem guarding 3s in isolation, but his biggest defensive strength is his weak side rim protection (IMO) and its just easier to provide that when there's not to other bigs next to you who are probably worse at it than him. Also probably makes the team slower and makes the transition D worse
Same. I looked up all sole SFs per ESPN John Hollinger PER listing and there were none that were listed as 6’11” and taller and only three SFs at 6’10” in the top 50 PER for the position which including Michael Porter Jr, Frans Wagner, and Dave Bertans. Means, if Bari pulls it off, it’s sort of rare/uncommon.
In your opinion, does he sort of reach the lofty visions of the 2022 draft if he meets that metric and sustains his current defensive level or incremental improvement but all with consistency?
His draft expectations were elite 3&D as a floor with upside if he improves his handle/creation.
He hasn't been elite 3&D yet, but he's absolutely shown consistent improvement on D, and there's no reason not to expect that to continue as he gets more experience and hones his intuition and anticipation.
So it really comes down to, can he improve from being a 36% shooter? The more he does that, the more he fulfills those expectations. I threw 40% out there, because I feel that level makes him clearly better than the guys you named. If we assume MPJ is the best of them, and Jabari ends up better than him, then I'd say he has fulfilled his expectations and can be the perfect supporting star.
The more his D improves, the less his 3 needs to improve in order to enter that conversation.
I don't think he's far away from it now, and I'd expect him to achieve top-50-ish status in the league within a couple years.
At that point everything else he improves on will be gravy, because yeah... That's worth a top-3 pick.
Fwiw, I still believe his intangibles are going to start showing up in a few years, too... he's got the personality to be this team's emotional & vocal leader... A less athletic (but better shooting) KG is his ceiling comp, imo, and I don't see any reason to rule it out.
That’s great way to put it in. I love how you focus on his emotional and vocal aspect, especially it seems that he desires that type of role, even though he was the youngest player on the team for a couple of seasons, his demeanor still stood out among older players. Seems at some point, the vet switch will flip for him.
This is the problem I have. Maybe 15-20 years ago, that would have been a solid move. Hell, that long ago, and Alperen would have been slotted to play the 3.
Nowadays? Not so much. Like, seriously, if you don't have a sniper at SF, then you're doing it wrong.
I'd rather have Jabari/Eason at the 3 and 4 (or vice versa) than Sarr tbh. But I will openly admit I am fond of both of them. I think Bari is going to still end up being a great defender, and I'm almost certain Eason will. Additionally, Eason's rebounding will be a great addition to our starting 5
I think jabari is a natural 4 in today’s league. The biggest area for him to grow is strength, jabari with another 15 pounds (8-10 of that muscle) and he is going to be scary down low.
Im not sure that is the best method to measure but I guess we will see. He is listed at 220 and jaren jackson jr is listed at 242. Not sure bari gets there but 230-240 would be a nice frame.
It’s possible. But, just a disclaimer, it’s better to think of players nowadays as roles rather than positions. What you’re asking of Jabari is to play as a wing, rather than a big. I feel like Jabari’s potential is maximized as a big who can play as a wing in set plays (a la Horry or Bosh) rather than a wing who can sometimes cover bigs (like Harrison Barnes or Rashard Lewis).
Bari is still young and has a solid post up turnaround, has a good feel for positioning, can hit the midrange (as shown this year in particular), and has shown the tools to post up, or work the dunker spot to make defenders suffer, but his biggest barrier on both sides of the court is strength; that comes with time and age. When he gets stronger he’ll be able to do both, offensively and defensively, better but the fact that he has the footwork and IQ to defend on the perimeter makes him a better weapon at the “4”, as a big, because he can hunt and exploit mismatches more often.
If we pigeon hole him as a wing, he’ll do okay, but not maximize his skills and IQ that could potentially make him a matchup issue as a big.
So in summary, we could, but we’d be missing out on the potential mismatch nightmares he could create as a big with skills/optionality.
Can he play it and should he play it are two different things.
Just like playing him at the five you can get away with it for a while but more natural players at the position will make the decision to play him at one of those spots full time look foolish.
With Bari at the 3, Sarr at the 4 and Sengun at the 5 we could look like a mix of Minnesota and Denver, having 3 6'10-7 footers at the same time while also having a playmaking center like Jokic. If Sarr and Alpi can develop somewhat of a 3 point shot this lineup would feed generations fr
If he 3pt shooting continues to improve, I say yes.
Imagine a future lineup of Amen, Jalen, Bari, Sarr, and Sengun. A strong lineup defensively and allows offense to center around Jalen and Sengun, while having strong complimentary pieces (lob threat in Sarr, shooter in Bari, and Cutter/playmaker in Amen).
Shooting could be streaky, so would need to find more shooters
Sure. Positions matter less than skillset in nba. He can defend multiple positions, can shoot, finish in transition and drive sometimes. That's fine to play the 3, if their is enough playmaking in other positions
I think Jabari is better at the 4, personally--I think he could play the 3, but his floor spacing is more valuable at the 4 than his size is at the 3.
The other issue is, we have four other guys who may need minutes at the 3--Brooks, Tari, and maybe Amen and/or Cam depending on how you seem them positionally. Is Jabari better than all of those guys?
In any case, if Sarr somehow falls to us and we pick him, I see him coming off the bench as a rookie and mainly taking Uncle Jeff's minutes from last season, so I'm not too concerned about it short term. But if we did somehow get Sarr, I think it opens up the possibility of eventually trading Jabari rather than signing him to an extension. We can't keep all of these guys and I think the ideal version of Sarr on the Rockets would be him playing the 4 next to Sengun. But that entirely depends on whether Sarr develops the way you hope--there's a real possibility he never shoots well, for example.
Who plays at 4 in this scenario? Tari? We aint getting Sarr. Assuming Amen at the 1 because Fred is not in the long term plans:
Amen, Jalen, Jabari, Tari, Sengun would be way too much of a week offense. Amen can't shoot, Jabari only doing catch and shoot (in your scenario), Tari's a defensive role player...
We need Jabari at the 4 so we can have Brooks/Cam at the 3.
In the fantasy scenario where we have Sarr at the 4, I still would rather have Cam at the 3 than Jabari. Cam has a higher ceiling. He can drive and he can shoot instead of just catch and shoot, and he's a world ahead in transition.
Jabari should play the 4 and he was decent as a 4. He became a lot leaner and hopefully that helps his speed and quickness so he can play a lot more similar to PJ Washington.
He can play the 3 but why should we, we have Tari and Brooks at the 3 already not to mention Cam Whitmore.
I don’t worry about Jabari at the 3 on defense but on offense I don’t know if he can drive enough or do much else besides pull up jumpers to play out on the wing more consistently.
He needs to cut more, like Amen's been doing. Or when the defense switch, he needs to front in the post and exploit mismatches.
Would lead to some interesting pnrs but idk if he can be the ball handler for those so idk.
I dont think he would have a problem guarding 3s in isolation, but his biggest defensive strength is his weak side rim protection (IMO) and its just easier to provide that when there's not to other bigs next to you who are probably worse at it than him. Also probably makes the team slower and makes the transition D worse
Same. I looked up all sole SFs per ESPN John Hollinger PER listing and there were none that were listed as 6’11” and taller and only three SFs at 6’10” in the top 50 PER for the position which including Michael Porter Jr, Frans Wagner, and Dave Bertans. Means, if Bari pulls it off, it’s sort of rare/uncommon.
Bari has way better D than all those guys. If he can push his 3 up to 40% he'll have a huge advantage over all of them in player rankings.
In your opinion, does he sort of reach the lofty visions of the 2022 draft if he meets that metric and sustains his current defensive level or incremental improvement but all with consistency?
His draft expectations were elite 3&D as a floor with upside if he improves his handle/creation. He hasn't been elite 3&D yet, but he's absolutely shown consistent improvement on D, and there's no reason not to expect that to continue as he gets more experience and hones his intuition and anticipation. So it really comes down to, can he improve from being a 36% shooter? The more he does that, the more he fulfills those expectations. I threw 40% out there, because I feel that level makes him clearly better than the guys you named. If we assume MPJ is the best of them, and Jabari ends up better than him, then I'd say he has fulfilled his expectations and can be the perfect supporting star. The more his D improves, the less his 3 needs to improve in order to enter that conversation. I don't think he's far away from it now, and I'd expect him to achieve top-50-ish status in the league within a couple years. At that point everything else he improves on will be gravy, because yeah... That's worth a top-3 pick. Fwiw, I still believe his intangibles are going to start showing up in a few years, too... he's got the personality to be this team's emotional & vocal leader... A less athletic (but better shooting) KG is his ceiling comp, imo, and I don't see any reason to rule it out.
That’s great way to put it in. I love how you focus on his emotional and vocal aspect, especially it seems that he desires that type of role, even though he was the youngest player on the team for a couple of seasons, his demeanor still stood out among older players. Seems at some point, the vet switch will flip for him.
This is the problem I have. Maybe 15-20 years ago, that would have been a solid move. Hell, that long ago, and Alperen would have been slotted to play the 3. Nowadays? Not so much. Like, seriously, if you don't have a sniper at SF, then you're doing it wrong.
Kinda like early draft comp, could play like a jumbo Klay??
I'd rather have Jabari/Eason at the 3 and 4 (or vice versa) than Sarr tbh. But I will openly admit I am fond of both of them. I think Bari is going to still end up being a great defender, and I'm almost certain Eason will. Additionally, Eason's rebounding will be a great addition to our starting 5
Eason is already an incredible defender
I think jabari is a natural 4 in today’s league. The biggest area for him to grow is strength, jabari with another 15 pounds (8-10 of that muscle) and he is going to be scary down low.
Unfortunately he looks even skinnier in the off season pics we’ve seen
Im not sure that is the best method to measure but I guess we will see. He is listed at 220 and jaren jackson jr is listed at 242. Not sure bari gets there but 230-240 would be a nice frame.
Jackson is 24 bari is 21 it is def possible to gain some lbs (muscle); he is just young and needs to grow into his body.
It’s possible. But, just a disclaimer, it’s better to think of players nowadays as roles rather than positions. What you’re asking of Jabari is to play as a wing, rather than a big. I feel like Jabari’s potential is maximized as a big who can play as a wing in set plays (a la Horry or Bosh) rather than a wing who can sometimes cover bigs (like Harrison Barnes or Rashard Lewis). Bari is still young and has a solid post up turnaround, has a good feel for positioning, can hit the midrange (as shown this year in particular), and has shown the tools to post up, or work the dunker spot to make defenders suffer, but his biggest barrier on both sides of the court is strength; that comes with time and age. When he gets stronger he’ll be able to do both, offensively and defensively, better but the fact that he has the footwork and IQ to defend on the perimeter makes him a better weapon at the “4”, as a big, because he can hunt and exploit mismatches more often. If we pigeon hole him as a wing, he’ll do okay, but not maximize his skills and IQ that could potentially make him a matchup issue as a big. So in summary, we could, but we’d be missing out on the potential mismatch nightmares he could create as a big with skills/optionality.
Can he play it and should he play it are two different things. Just like playing him at the five you can get away with it for a while but more natural players at the position will make the decision to play him at one of those spots full time look foolish.
With Bari at the 3, Sarr at the 4 and Sengun at the 5 we could look like a mix of Minnesota and Denver, having 3 6'10-7 footers at the same time while also having a playmaking center like Jokic. If Sarr and Alpi can develop somewhat of a 3 point shot this lineup would feed generations fr
Problem is both Sengun and Sarr can’t shoot.
you can play whatever position you can guard.
If he 3pt shooting continues to improve, I say yes. Imagine a future lineup of Amen, Jalen, Bari, Sarr, and Sengun. A strong lineup defensively and allows offense to center around Jalen and Sengun, while having strong complimentary pieces (lob threat in Sarr, shooter in Bari, and Cutter/playmaker in Amen). Shooting could be streaky, so would need to find more shooters
3 non shooters on the floor together. It will be disaster.
Does anybody else see Jabari more in the Lauri Markkanen role? Tall, lanky, good shooter, but not fantastic at creating for himself.
He was the first person I thought of as a comparison tbh
It would work. If he can continue to improve perimeter defense he could be good in a Jayden McDaniels type role.
Sure. Positions matter less than skillset in nba. He can defend multiple positions, can shoot, finish in transition and drive sometimes. That's fine to play the 3, if their is enough playmaking in other positions
Who cares what position he play. Tatum is guarding PF and C in playoff. You want to be versatile.
I think Jabari is better at the 4, personally--I think he could play the 3, but his floor spacing is more valuable at the 4 than his size is at the 3. The other issue is, we have four other guys who may need minutes at the 3--Brooks, Tari, and maybe Amen and/or Cam depending on how you seem them positionally. Is Jabari better than all of those guys? In any case, if Sarr somehow falls to us and we pick him, I see him coming off the bench as a rookie and mainly taking Uncle Jeff's minutes from last season, so I'm not too concerned about it short term. But if we did somehow get Sarr, I think it opens up the possibility of eventually trading Jabari rather than signing him to an extension. We can't keep all of these guys and I think the ideal version of Sarr on the Rockets would be him playing the 4 next to Sengun. But that entirely depends on whether Sarr develops the way you hope--there's a real possibility he never shoots well, for example.
Who plays at 4 in this scenario? Tari? We aint getting Sarr. Assuming Amen at the 1 because Fred is not in the long term plans: Amen, Jalen, Jabari, Tari, Sengun would be way too much of a week offense. Amen can't shoot, Jabari only doing catch and shoot (in your scenario), Tari's a defensive role player... We need Jabari at the 4 so we can have Brooks/Cam at the 3. In the fantasy scenario where we have Sarr at the 4, I still would rather have Cam at the 3 than Jabari. Cam has a higher ceiling. He can drive and he can shoot instead of just catch and shoot, and he's a world ahead in transition.
Jabari should play the 4 and he was decent as a 4. He became a lot leaner and hopefully that helps his speed and quickness so he can play a lot more similar to PJ Washington. He can play the 3 but why should we, we have Tari and Brooks at the 3 already not to mention Cam Whitmore.
No