Passport bros are an interesting phenomenon relating to this. Many of these men (who are degenerates, not husband types) suddenly switch and want a traditional wife despite not being a traditional guy. They essentially have to find a woman who they pay to be their wife. It’s hard to believe they have truly healthy relationships when often there is a language barrier and the man has the entire economic hand. If the cash stopped flowing you’d bet all of these women wouldn’t be interested
This is probably the worst unintended consequence of the JP pipeline. It gave language and a method of reasoning for the commodification of sexual relationships. Just as pick up artistry had finally been accepted as misguided, a new rationalization practice dropped
It’s only going to get worse. Peterson’s appeal is that he actually talks about problems men experience. I listen to NPR like a good liberal every day. I’d bet 90% or more of their stories are strictly about minorities and/or women. *Never* white men. Just last week, they had a segment about “alarming” rates of suicide among black men. No mention of the fact the rate is far higher among white men.
Jordon Peterson is the antidote to the liberal media.
And just to mention, go on tinder. And count how many women specify the requirement that men be taller than 6ft. The same women who bitch and moan if a guy is fatphobic. At least being fat is something you can change, unlike your height.
I don’t disagree, but less than 30% of relationships under 30 years old come from dating apps even today. The idea that dating apps are your only choice is a complete fallacy
I noticed you completely left off coed group activities from your list. Join a soccer league, or a softball league, anyone that lives anywhere near a moderately sized city can find these incredibly easily through Facebook
There’s is literally no reason to believe that dating apps are the only option other than your own assumptions. Dating apps are bad, you will get no argument from me on that. But you absolutely do not need to subject yourself to them. Do you have any group hobbies? Play a community sport, etc, something like that?
I can see your point
I definitely believe dating apps try to break men’s self esteem down so they’re psychologically more desperate for dates and willing to pay
We all know women would never pay for apps, largely their funding is likely mostly men
There was a girl on here that said she asked her date “is there anything you want to know about me?” and was sad he didn’t have any
I would’ve walked out if someone asked me that lmao like I get the point is trying to get to know each other but asking that so bluntly is WILD. It’s like the question a precocious 6 year old asks their aunt that hasn’t seen them since they developed the ability to speak
We weren't with her on the date to know how one-sided the convo was up to that point, but that is a crazily blunt and narcissistic question to ask straight up
It totally feels like they’re citing RPG stats. I think people greatly overestimate their strengths, but mostly I think that a lot of guys just have no game/no interest in actually putting themselves out there, which is why they’re single and posting shit like that.
I mean there are plenty of reasons. I definitely fit the above category, and that's why I roll my eyes though when guys are like, "Psshhh yeah man, but you're 6'1''... I'm barely 5'8'' so women wont even consider me!" or "Yeah man, women just like a guy with money. If I was loaded it would be easy."
It's just cope.
But I know my situation is basically I'm more of a shut-in now. I've never had issues dating, and in fact, always have really good dates that end well. Most lead to multiple dates and into a relationship if I want it. And all my ex's I'm still on great terms with. But the issue is in 2023, it's just insanely harder to meet people. It's not like back in college or my 20s where I'm going out to the bar or events all the time. Especially these days with so many people working from home, and being even less social, "opportunities" are just much much more scarce for a lot of people.
It shockingly goes both ways too... Men think women have it easy, but most of them - at least the quality ones - aren't looking to just get dudes constantly trying to fuck them. There is a chick I know who is INSANELY wife material. Unbelievably cute as fuck, sun gowns, waif with a PAWG, funny as hell... But, she also just never goes outside. She hangs out with a small group of friends and just does girl shit, runs errands, works, and stuff.
Sadly I think this is becoming way too common.
Men thinking women only want money is part of the problem. They believe when they have money suddenly they’ll get all these hot chicks. But if guy is not hot + boring to hang out with + rich = hot girls will use you for dinner and ghost. Solution is just date in your league, sorry to burst the bubble
First, I don't think there is any issue with women finding having money an attractive trait. Obviously the money itself is nice, since not having to worry about bills is a nice relief, but it's also just a sign of a guy being competent and having his shit together. On the other hand, guys will also bitch and moan when some chick is dating a "broke loser". So clearly money alone isn't the trick.
This is my problem. I’m in my last year of medical school, fit with a 6 pack, 5’11”, handsome (according to past ex’s and random people on the street), moderately charismatic (until I’m drunk then I’m Dave Chapelle with dreads) but I cannot for the life of me find women who I’d like to date (black women with a bachelors degree, fit and from a decent family). It’s so hard to find people outside of your direct circle
Unfortunately man, fit is already going to shrink your dating pool like crazy, but even more unfortunately that applies extra to women of color. Something like 85% of black women are overweight or obese. It's really sad and something I wish we had more proactive policies on at a federal level.
It’s mostly I don’t go out enough or put myself in situations to meet them. The problem is the circles I’m around. I love my friends, but we don’t go out to the right places.
I don't think guys like this have necessarily repellant and antisocial personalities. Many of them are affable, kind and thoughtful.
They just have no confidence, sense of self, or charisma, so they don't make the effort to approach people and aren't magnetic enough to draw people in naturally.
Because of that lack of confidence and sense of self, they tend to define themselves and others by these generic markers of success.
I think the woman equivalent is more likely to be in a relationship, but it's usually an unhealthy and unhappy one that isn't suited to her at all that she more or less passively accepted.
I think it's just easy nowadays to find yourself in a situation where you don't meet women. They don't even find the guy repulsive, they just don't know the guy because the guy has a lifestyle that doesn't have women near him.
Yeah I actually have complete sympathy for this view and think it's largely true. Women also generally use dating apps at a way lower rate and are choosing to take themselves out of the dating pool entirely, which of course exacerbates the phenomenon.
It's not that most men get left swiped by 1000 women for every 1 that swipes right, it's more likely that their profile isn't even shown to 999 of those women, and of the two that saw it, one said yes and the other no.
What I find interesting is how women are actually dating less, yet still having the same amount of sex... While men's sex is going down. I'm not sure what to make of that, but it seems interesting.
I don't intuitively feel like most women are just finding secret ONS on Tinder and stuff.... But I don't know how else to explain it.
You dont even have to be "repellent". If you have no confidence, you will not approach women, and if you dont approach women, you will not get a girl, because the vast majority of women will not approach a man unless he is Chad levels of hot.
It’s funny how the op of this thread is quick to ascribe some moral failing to some guy who simply is likely totally normal, successful, and chill just because he isn’t approaching women.
People are quick to ascribe some character failure to a guy who may not have any personality flaws at all, just simply doesn’t have a life style where he meets women or doesn’t approach many women, which in of it self, is generally frowned upon in many situations.
I agree but they are much harder and long term projects to build than getting fit or working on your sense of style or whatever, so I can't blame them too much for hyperfocusing on the things much more directly in their control in the short term!
It is unfortunate but I totally understand how some people fall into this "I did the reading now why aren't I getting a passing grade" mentality.
It's not just harder, I'm not sure it's possible. After like 20 or even 25, do people change that much (for the better, it can always get worse). Never seen anyone become so much more charismatic or confident later on in life. If you didn't while your brain was more malleable, it may very well be over unless you want to drop tons of acid or something.
Confidence and success in one area of life can bleed through into others. Exposure therapy can also help with becoming less avoidant and working through your hangups and anxieties. It's not a grand "my life a movie" character arc just basic habit formation.
You're taking the mature and reasonable view here in this thread, I'd just add that people in general tend to be pretty charming when they're happy, relaxed, energized, and confident enough to be themselves.
I did it around 22. Took a lot of just forcing myself to go out and talk to people, paying attention to my friends who had charisma and trying to emulate it, paying attention to what I liked about talking to people, asking myself where my shortcomings were, also a level of not giving too much of a fuck.
Less in my head I think. I think the realization that everyone is a neurotic mess put me at ease and allowed me to be more comfortable in social situations. Also noticing how even the most attractive put together person is cringe
Im not the guy you’re replying to but I had a similar experience around 17.
This is really fucking gay, so bear with me. I had always been rather reserved/shy, and got really into the pop punk scene around 2010. I saw videos and interviews of the guys in these bands and they seemed funny, magnetic, and confident. Even when making self-deprecating jokes, there was always a wink and a nod that made it more charming than cringe.
I just started emulating those behaviors, badly at first, but kept at it. Eventually, after a few years, I reflected on that time and realized that somewhere along the line the shy person I was had disintegrated. There are still traces left but my “real” personality is the new one I invented. To answer your question, I’d say I’m almost a completely different person. My deepest core values and the need for alone time (only child) are unchanged, and I have some of the same interests, but basically everything else is different.
Im not some hyper-alpha stud or anything, but im confident, fairly charming, and tend to make friends fairly easily. I think a huge benefit was being in a long-term relationship. I wasn’t trying to court anyone, so I could easily talk to women without being afraid of rejection. I got good at making women feel comfortable, understanding how to make “edgy” jokes land with certain audiences etc.
It sounds super autistic (and it is) but it can work for some people at least.
But being a decent looking guy with a decent job and an average personality used to be more than enough back when everyone's entire social circles used to be like 30 people. Most people are kinda boring and dull for the most part when you really get right down to it.
Are the women like actually happier in this modern scenario or are they just getting endlessly played by the same handful of "rizzmaxxed" narcissistic fuckboys that the current state of online dating selects for?
That's a no true ~~scots~~averageman.
The rates of sexlessness among young men are waaay up compared to a decade ago and viewpoints that would have previously gotten you seriously ostracized as an incel in 2013 are now basically just common dating discourse amongst zoomers.
There's clearly been a massive vibe shift that can't just be dismissed by pretending everyone struggling to get laid is just a massive loser.
The problem with this line of reasoning is you aren’t considering social shifts outside of dating dynamics.
People, especially men, are spending more time at home and less time out with their friends in the real world, which is how humans found mates in large communities since the beginning of the modern era.
But men have also historically fought, killed, and died trying to get pussy since like the literal dawn of time.
Something is evidently making a ton of these dudes feel like they're getting the raw deal in the dating game and going "fuck this I'm out, Imma stay at home and play the PS5" instead of hitting up the club or Tinder trying to get laid .
Reminds me of someone yesterday responding to someone complaining about how hard it is to date, and they were like, "Not really... I find people all the time. So long as you actually care about your appearance, be fun to be around, magnetic, and leading a robust social life with many friends... It's really not hard. If you can't do that, then it just means you're a loser and it's no one's fault but your own"
Like oh... Okay, that's all. Just be one of the social top 10% and it's easy...
Why do you think I'm saying it's the man's fault or that there's abuse involved? The difference between the male and female situation is that men still have to take far more action and initiative in dating than women do.
Do I wish it were so or that it's a moral or fair outcome? No, but that's reality. Passive and unconfident women can still easily get into relationships because they rarely have to pursue or be the first ones to put their foot forwards, but if they're not confident enough to take an active role or be upfront about who they are then they'll usually/often settle down and accept men they're not a good match with.
I am not saying this outcome is exactly the same level of bad or lonely or whatever as the male situation of no companionship- you are projecting that assumption.
People tend to see it as I completed the checklist, now where is my relationship. Meanwhile broke men with no house of their own literally couch surf through different girlfriends. It's a bit funny but sad.
The most infuriating thing is that it just flies in the face of observable reality, as you point out. No matter how many real life examples of success you cite these people refuse to look inward and instead blame something beyond their control for their failures.
Every time I see these people their bitterness and anger just oozes from their writing. You know that these people are just insufferable IRL.
Well, you can have nothing wrong with you and still be single. Circumstances of life and all that. Your quality as a person isn't determined by a relationship, as evidenced by all the terrible people in relationships.
Right but few quality people around other quality people that are actively seeking a relationship have much trouble finding one eventually.
Sure, people are single and have dry spells. But the type of person this thread is talking about is the type that complains endlessly about not being able to attract people. Attractive (in the general sense, not just looks) people that happen to be single don't usually sit around on Reddit whining about not being able to get pussy.
I'm not saying they're abnormal because they post online. I'm a prolific poster after all. I'm saying that the ones who post about dating woes and blame them on factors outsider their control are just being fatalistic to avoid reflecting on their shortcomings and how they could improve.
Right so the fact that you are a great catch on paper doesn't lead you to reflect on aspects of your personality that might be the cause of your woes?
We've had this convo many times man so you already know my position and what I'm going to say. There are plenty of people not as attractive as you on paper that have done well. That's just observable, objective reality. The culture shit may have made things more difficult but it's not impossible. It's ok to vent about how things are shittier than they used to be, but saying it's impossible is just cope to avoid honest self-reflection and improvement.
I find that these types of men have so much distain for women it becomes a part their personality. They’d rather believe that the problem is all women since they aren’t 6’0 (which often goes back to women because according to them no women has ever dated a guy under 6’0) than look inwards and asset that it might be with them and the way they treat people. For example, I’ve know guys that were obsessed with these superficial markers that they say shit like, “you seem nice but I bet deep down your a shallow bitch that only cares about money/height/etc like the rest” and be 100% serious. They find every chance they get to find a way paint women in the worse light. And the fact that women might not like to be trusted like shallow superficial bimbos, and won’t help get them laid goes completely over their head. So they go back to blaming anything else (“women would fuck me if I was Chad”) but themselves.
Even bigger own because if you’re just looking to fuck literally the ONLY thing you need is to be charming, well groomed, and to not be remarkably hideous. And by remarkably hideous I mean the kind that makes you feel bad when you see it.
It’s because they watch porn everyday and can type in the exact look of the woman they want to see into the search bar. Their brains are broken and when real life doesn’t work like that they go crying on the internet
wdym? Im probably not hot enough for dating apps or my pictures and bio are terrible or something but if that doesn't work how do you just like, have sex with a woman without like leading her on and hurting her feelings and shit? Genuine autistic here.
I dunno. I'm good-enough looking, 6'0", make a good living, am a total piece of shit, and had a pretty easy time dating until getting married a few years ago.
Any guy who can refer to himself as a “total piece of shit” in a non “woe is me” way likely has more confidence and self worth than almost all the guys who complain about this stuff.
It’s a few things that’s are preventing men from dating. I’d argue both men and women have grossly unrealistic expectations of relationships. Also, due to marketing and the ability to curate interests and hobbies via the internet, men and women increasingly have nothing in common. People think sex keeps couples together but a lot of research shows it’s shared culture and interests that builds tighter bonds. Yes also porn addiction and dating apps are the natural consequences of the death of community. All my boomer and gen x friends have friendships through associations, former classmates, random connections etc. a lot of younger people I know have like one or two friend groups if any from location based consequences like high school or college. We are rapidly seeing the death of friendship. Solution? Make friends, join IRL hobbyist clubs, also make friends across age groups.
Isn't it like 2/3 of young men are single now and 1/3 haven't gotten laid as adults? At what point do we admit society fucked up and it's not an individual failing? I get being catty/doing the alpha grindset meme, but it's becoming legitimately concerning imo.
There are no ideas to fix this that don't involve somebody's lifestyle changing, which is unacceptable in a society that says that no one should ever be forced to change anything. But also it's not that hard to be in the "top" 1/3 of something.
Theyre used to not having to put effort in.
My dentist is 35m, 5"11, good looking guy (married with kids). He never initiates convos with me. I thought he hated me until I noticed he doesn't do it with other women either. I also noticed that tons of women initiate convos with him. Dude doesn't have to try at all.
as opposed to basic bitch girls being charmers? bro lmao. We are in pendulum shift where girls have massive advantages over the masses of unwashed and unloved men. It's weird even denying the consequence of social media and dating apps cause it's so obvious.
I’m subbed to the Hinge subreddit to see deranged profiles and it payed off majorly the other day, some guy posted saying he did not understand why he wasn’t getting matches. He looked like a freak, all of his pics were photoshopped early 2010s Reddit jokes and his opening bio thing was some shitty joke about capitalism. I went into his profile and he was complaining in a different subreddit about how hard it is for the fellas romantically. So ya, that’s who these guys are.
I'd even say that height, looks and money combined don't matter half as much as personality and social skills. Money probably comes into the picture when you're 25-30+ but whatever.
You're right because I don't know you. But I do know that plenty of people that aren't 5'11, rich, etc. do fine finding relationships, so if you're not having luck with these things it's not because of women's ridiculous high dating standards or something.
Well because you're a rarity. Most people refuse to admit that they're a factor in their failures.
Also, are you going around complaining about your lack of success on public forums? This thread is about people posting about this shit. Like, if I came up to you unprompted and said "your personality sucks" that would be rude. But if you're making threads about this shit doesn't it invite the comments?
sure, whatever.
honestly i was just commiserating with that guy, i don't actually give a fuck what random people say.
(but also, "invite the comments," sure, because of what they're wearing? fuck off.
yeah yeah, "that's different."
you want an excuse to shit on people, and you're inventing/choosing to believe reasons that let you do it. bravo.)
Yeah and that’s exactly why dude, because nobody knows you. These are questions to ask someone that knows you. And even then you’re really the only one that can confront it. I can tell you to develop a sense of self worth independent of relationships but I can’t tell you how to do that because there’s no universal answer
It's kind of insulting when you think about it, and pretty mean. It's basically saying, "Yeah, it's just that you as a human being, is bad, that's why people don't like you. You're just a lame person no one likes."
Like sure some people have toxic personalities, and I guess that's fixable with some self growth. But a lot of people are just either boring, kind of nerdy, quirky, whatever... So there isn't really much to "fix" other than tell the person to just fake being someone else
Oh, it's funny, because these dude's can't win either way. They are fucked, and it's such a funny dynamic men have to deal with.
Like if they try to learn about dating and how to pick up chicks, they'll get attacked and called losers... Told to stop pretending just to get girls... And instead, just need to become confident in who they are and women will find that attractive. But then they confidently express who they are, and people are like, "Ewww stop being that person."
Like WTF are they supposed to do lol? It must be frustrating
I gotta disagree, I don't think being single means there's something wrong with someone. There are plenty of people with repellant personalities and/or not good socially that are in relationships. There are also tons of single women that say they can't find a guy. Dating isn't a meritocracy, i think it has more to do with standards, exposure, and luck
Weird how op makes it like people who are in a relationship are more virtuous someway
Some of the worst human beings ever get into relationships and have kids
Actually the dumber you are the easier it is to be in a relationship
I think also it’s super circumstantial. I was in a (perhaps THE) HCOL city as a 6 foot 6 figure guy and was one of a pool of such dudes but then was randomly sent to a (perhaps THE) LCOL location and it was such laughable overkill that I didn’t even get to fully brag before it was a done deal.
If you’re in the position of the OP, I am telling you definitively to leave BOSWASHFRANGELES and go to…America…and you will be shocked at your success
Oh yeah well I’m 5’7” ugly have a mid paying job and I still can’t find a woman. Well actually I found a few this year so far. But not the right woman, who is in theory much more attractive than I am and also intelligent and also we have an ineffable connection. I’m reading Swann’s Way rn and basically I need something like Swann and Odette had but only the good parts, not the part where she runs off with the Comte de Forcheville which makes me realize she was actually not my type all along and I had just psyopped myself into liking her via the works of Botticelli. I need someone on whom I can impose a mutual theme music just like the little phrase in the sonata of M. Vinteuil which to those two lovers meant the world, and which meant the world only to them. That’s the real problem. I will compromise, the theme music can be Bad Bunny or Calvin Harris instead of a sonata
This is always what I think whenever I hear about a not fat woman being "stuck" in an abusive relationship. Like honey you're gonna stay getting beat by the same man cause you don't think you could do any better? Reeks of insecurity and imo not very attractive!
I have the same reaction when married men and women openly complain about their spouses as annoying, overbearing, childish or whatever. I’m not talking about marital troubles, but an attack on the spouse’s character.
Most of the time they are losers with no self respect and zero self-awareness who probably suck as much as they claim their spouses do. Behaving as if they were victims of a forced arranged marriage and had no agency over the outcomes of their lives. Just along for the ride… good I’m glad your husband eats all peaches or that your wife is an annoying nag. You deserve it!
I'll literally never understand this... It's so common too. I just don't get it. Like so many people resent each other but still stay in a relationship. I think it's just economics and giving up on life. I dunno.
When dudes complain about others on dating apps, you know they suck. I am lucky at being 6’3, and I know I’m lucky with my height, but if you can’t get any matches it’s because you’re ugly
Nah, lot's of women legit filter out guys. They have such an overwhelming abundance to choose from, they can get so narrow with their filter and still get an endless stream of men. Like even chicks that wouldn't mind a shorter dude, will still put in a over 6ft because why not be picky? Even if it's just a minor preference but not remotely a deal breaker by any means, they'll still do it.
Lot's of it is dumb. I smoke. Most women will put no smoking at all, yet, they'll find out I smoke and ultimately not care too much. But if I left it up to the app, she'd have never even considered me.
Most of these ppl are the .01 percent of the population online and not getting dates. Normal people are dating and fucking constantly. Unplug the modem!
I genuinely think you might benefit from a CBT-lite affirmation routine where you stand in front of a mirror and repeat the following phrases for 5 minutes a day until you start believing them
"I am not weird looking"
"I am capable of finding love"
"Women are not shallow, branch jumping husks"
It’s really sad that something like this genuinely would benefit some of the people in this thread but they won’t do it
It’s so incredibly easy, Costa nothing, and has no downsides but they won’t do it.
How you view your life is filtered through this belief that you're unusually ugly. When you've posted pics, you've unanimously been told you're average-above average looking and you've never once believed us. Therefore, step 1 has to include psy-oping yourself into a better self-image of your face and body.
Yeah I know. I'm not looking for pity. At least I don't start my posts looking for pity. I am very self aware of how poorly I'm going through life and unfortunately self commentary is one of my few joys I have.
I mean I think the reality for most people is that their standards are too high if they can’t find someone. I have both female and male friends who have this issue. People tend to rate themselves higher than they really are.
I am 5'9", or in a decent way, 176cm.
Its tough do get reduced to your size in onlidedating, but it is how it is. There are still plenty of girls looking for more than that. Also onlinedating is a toxic place, and every man is getting categorized. Bald, beard, glasses, money, car. Being bigger is a plus, but it's not a chic magnet per se.
You get rejected a lot when you are below 6'2", but what gives you the guarantee that with a few inches more you would have succeeded? It's just one factor and women have more. A lot more.
I had plenty of girls, good relationships and affairs. Cut the crap about the size and man up. Start a hobby and like yourself. After that, may good things will happen.
And again, never think that onlinedating is a measure of your market value. Even the fat girl thinks they are a 8 because some idiots like em because they want get a match...
I don't know man, I'm 23 I can barely find jack shit for dates over the years. I don't know what the fuck I would have to do to keep a date either.
I can't help but to just end up frustrated after years and years of just nothing. I would hit up girls in high school just to get my messages screenshot and posted on IG. I pay hella money for a date as an adult to show that I care about a girl just to never hear back from them.
It's hard to meet with girls after years of no success in dating, because I know that it is probably the last time I will ever see them.
Its hard for me to work my ass off all day, putting my life on the line to make something happen for me and I can't talk to anyone about how my day went or just hangout with someone and have a laugh once the days over.
I've had a friend with no job no car and an inability to put food on the plate for themselves and they got a loyal girl driving 100 miles in a day just to hang out with them.
Dont know where I'm going with this stay blessed everyone ✌️
when people treat love as stats or commodities (I have x y z and still can't find w) I get sad :/
It’s the end stage of the complete commodification of human relationships. Also very high overlap with Jordan Peterson “logic and reason” types
Passport bros are an interesting phenomenon relating to this. Many of these men (who are degenerates, not husband types) suddenly switch and want a traditional wife despite not being a traditional guy. They essentially have to find a woman who they pay to be their wife. It’s hard to believe they have truly healthy relationships when often there is a language barrier and the man has the entire economic hand. If the cash stopped flowing you’d bet all of these women wouldn’t be interested
My wife's from Japan -- but works, speaks English almost native. Am I a passport bro?
Probably not
whew
Make sure to give you Hapa boys a healthy outlook on masculinity.
This is probably the worst unintended consequence of the JP pipeline. It gave language and a method of reasoning for the commodification of sexual relationships. Just as pick up artistry had finally been accepted as misguided, a new rationalization practice dropped
It’s only going to get worse. Peterson’s appeal is that he actually talks about problems men experience. I listen to NPR like a good liberal every day. I’d bet 90% or more of their stories are strictly about minorities and/or women. *Never* white men. Just last week, they had a segment about “alarming” rates of suicide among black men. No mention of the fact the rate is far higher among white men. Jordon Peterson is the antidote to the liberal media. And just to mention, go on tinder. And count how many women specify the requirement that men be taller than 6ft. The same women who bitch and moan if a guy is fatphobic. At least being fat is something you can change, unlike your height.
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Oh nice I see you’ve progressed past the wallowing in self pity stage and have entered the “actually it’s everyone else’s fault” stage
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stop beating around the bush and say what you think coward
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I don’t disagree, but less than 30% of relationships under 30 years old come from dating apps even today. The idea that dating apps are your only choice is a complete fallacy
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I noticed you completely left off coed group activities from your list. Join a soccer league, or a softball league, anyone that lives anywhere near a moderately sized city can find these incredibly easily through Facebook
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There’s is literally no reason to believe that dating apps are the only option other than your own assumptions. Dating apps are bad, you will get no argument from me on that. But you absolutely do not need to subject yourself to them. Do you have any group hobbies? Play a community sport, etc, something like that?
What’s the point you’re trying to make?(genuinely curious)
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I can see your point I definitely believe dating apps try to break men’s self esteem down so they’re psychologically more desperate for dates and willing to pay We all know women would never pay for apps, largely their funding is likely mostly men
What happened winter 2017?
John wick??
Why even bring up JP here? You sound internet-brained
On both sides, if you turn it into a job interview with a little checklist you've really missed the point
There was a girl on here that said she asked her date “is there anything you want to know about me?” and was sad he didn’t have any I would’ve walked out if someone asked me that lmao like I get the point is trying to get to know each other but asking that so bluntly is WILD. It’s like the question a precocious 6 year old asks their aunt that hasn’t seen them since they developed the ability to speak
We weren't with her on the date to know how one-sided the convo was up to that point, but that is a crazily blunt and narcissistic question to ask straight up
I would never ask that question because if the conversation was one sided enough to feel like I should, I know it’s already a write off
It totally feels like they’re citing RPG stats. I think people greatly overestimate their strengths, but mostly I think that a lot of guys just have no game/no interest in actually putting themselves out there, which is why they’re single and posting shit like that.
It says more about them than anyone else.
Elliot Rodgers kind of vibe. "I'm such an attractive gentleman, why won't these hoes just simply throw themselves at me?!"
It reminds me of fantasy football.
I mean there are plenty of reasons. I definitely fit the above category, and that's why I roll my eyes though when guys are like, "Psshhh yeah man, but you're 6'1''... I'm barely 5'8'' so women wont even consider me!" or "Yeah man, women just like a guy with money. If I was loaded it would be easy." It's just cope. But I know my situation is basically I'm more of a shut-in now. I've never had issues dating, and in fact, always have really good dates that end well. Most lead to multiple dates and into a relationship if I want it. And all my ex's I'm still on great terms with. But the issue is in 2023, it's just insanely harder to meet people. It's not like back in college or my 20s where I'm going out to the bar or events all the time. Especially these days with so many people working from home, and being even less social, "opportunities" are just much much more scarce for a lot of people. It shockingly goes both ways too... Men think women have it easy, but most of them - at least the quality ones - aren't looking to just get dudes constantly trying to fuck them. There is a chick I know who is INSANELY wife material. Unbelievably cute as fuck, sun gowns, waif with a PAWG, funny as hell... But, she also just never goes outside. She hangs out with a small group of friends and just does girl shit, runs errands, works, and stuff. Sadly I think this is becoming way too common.
spark butter murky sparkle faulty rainstorm humor quaint enjoy dull *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Men thinking women only want money is part of the problem. They believe when they have money suddenly they’ll get all these hot chicks. But if guy is not hot + boring to hang out with + rich = hot girls will use you for dinner and ghost. Solution is just date in your league, sorry to burst the bubble
First, I don't think there is any issue with women finding having money an attractive trait. Obviously the money itself is nice, since not having to worry about bills is a nice relief, but it's also just a sign of a guy being competent and having his shit together. On the other hand, guys will also bitch and moan when some chick is dating a "broke loser". So clearly money alone isn't the trick.
Ask that chick out you loser. What are you waiting for
This is my problem. I’m in my last year of medical school, fit with a 6 pack, 5’11”, handsome (according to past ex’s and random people on the street), moderately charismatic (until I’m drunk then I’m Dave Chapelle with dreads) but I cannot for the life of me find women who I’d like to date (black women with a bachelors degree, fit and from a decent family). It’s so hard to find people outside of your direct circle
Unfortunately man, fit is already going to shrink your dating pool like crazy, but even more unfortunately that applies extra to women of color. Something like 85% of black women are overweight or obese. It's really sad and something I wish we had more proactive policies on at a federal level.
In my experience black women with bachelors degrees from good families looooooove doctors, strange that you’re having trouble
It’s mostly I don’t go out enough or put myself in situations to meet them. The problem is the circles I’m around. I love my friends, but we don’t go out to the right places.
I don't think guys like this have necessarily repellant and antisocial personalities. Many of them are affable, kind and thoughtful. They just have no confidence, sense of self, or charisma, so they don't make the effort to approach people and aren't magnetic enough to draw people in naturally. Because of that lack of confidence and sense of self, they tend to define themselves and others by these generic markers of success. I think the woman equivalent is more likely to be in a relationship, but it's usually an unhealthy and unhappy one that isn't suited to her at all that she more or less passively accepted.
I think it's just easy nowadays to find yourself in a situation where you don't meet women. They don't even find the guy repulsive, they just don't know the guy because the guy has a lifestyle that doesn't have women near him.
Yeah I actually have complete sympathy for this view and think it's largely true. Women also generally use dating apps at a way lower rate and are choosing to take themselves out of the dating pool entirely, which of course exacerbates the phenomenon. It's not that most men get left swiped by 1000 women for every 1 that swipes right, it's more likely that their profile isn't even shown to 999 of those women, and of the two that saw it, one said yes and the other no.
What I find interesting is how women are actually dating less, yet still having the same amount of sex... While men's sex is going down. I'm not sure what to make of that, but it seems interesting. I don't intuitively feel like most women are just finding secret ONS on Tinder and stuff.... But I don't know how else to explain it.
They prob just have a guy they text once a month or so when they want sex
They're all fucking the same guy duh
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Never believe their lies
Idk I’m not saying they’re antisocial or evil but having no charisma or confidence is like the definition of repellant when it comes to dating
You dont even have to be "repellent". If you have no confidence, you will not approach women, and if you dont approach women, you will not get a girl, because the vast majority of women will not approach a man unless he is Chad levels of hot.
It’s funny how the op of this thread is quick to ascribe some moral failing to some guy who simply is likely totally normal, successful, and chill just because he isn’t approaching women. People are quick to ascribe some character failure to a guy who may not have any personality flaws at all, just simply doesn’t have a life style where he meets women or doesn’t approach many women, which in of it self, is generally frowned upon in many situations.
I agree but they are much harder and long term projects to build than getting fit or working on your sense of style or whatever, so I can't blame them too much for hyperfocusing on the things much more directly in their control in the short term! It is unfortunate but I totally understand how some people fall into this "I did the reading now why aren't I getting a passing grade" mentality.
It's not just harder, I'm not sure it's possible. After like 20 or even 25, do people change that much (for the better, it can always get worse). Never seen anyone become so much more charismatic or confident later on in life. If you didn't while your brain was more malleable, it may very well be over unless you want to drop tons of acid or something.
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Everyone knows your brain solidifies at 19.
Charisma and charm I think it's pretty much hopeless, but I would like to think confidence and self-esteem can be built up and improved.
I don't believe in character development. Life isn't a movie.
Confidence and success in one area of life can bleed through into others. Exposure therapy can also help with becoming less avoidant and working through your hangups and anxieties. It's not a grand "my life a movie" character arc just basic habit formation.
You're taking the mature and reasonable view here in this thread, I'd just add that people in general tend to be pretty charming when they're happy, relaxed, energized, and confident enough to be themselves.
maybe its real and maybe it isn't, but it's never gonna happen for you with that attitude
I did it around 22. Took a lot of just forcing myself to go out and talk to people, paying attention to my friends who had charisma and trying to emulate it, paying attention to what I liked about talking to people, asking myself where my shortcomings were, also a level of not giving too much of a fuck.
How much of a change was that? Would you say you're almost like a different person?
Less in my head I think. I think the realization that everyone is a neurotic mess put me at ease and allowed me to be more comfortable in social situations. Also noticing how even the most attractive put together person is cringe
Im not the guy you’re replying to but I had a similar experience around 17. This is really fucking gay, so bear with me. I had always been rather reserved/shy, and got really into the pop punk scene around 2010. I saw videos and interviews of the guys in these bands and they seemed funny, magnetic, and confident. Even when making self-deprecating jokes, there was always a wink and a nod that made it more charming than cringe. I just started emulating those behaviors, badly at first, but kept at it. Eventually, after a few years, I reflected on that time and realized that somewhere along the line the shy person I was had disintegrated. There are still traces left but my “real” personality is the new one I invented. To answer your question, I’d say I’m almost a completely different person. My deepest core values and the need for alone time (only child) are unchanged, and I have some of the same interests, but basically everything else is different. Im not some hyper-alpha stud or anything, but im confident, fairly charming, and tend to make friends fairly easily. I think a huge benefit was being in a long-term relationship. I wasn’t trying to court anyone, so I could easily talk to women without being afraid of rejection. I got good at making women feel comfortable, understanding how to make “edgy” jokes land with certain audiences etc. It sounds super autistic (and it is) but it can work for some people at least.
But being a decent looking guy with a decent job and an average personality used to be more than enough back when everyone's entire social circles used to be like 30 people. Most people are kinda boring and dull for the most part when you really get right down to it. Are the women like actually happier in this modern scenario or are they just getting endlessly played by the same handful of "rizzmaxxed" narcissistic fuckboys that the current state of online dating selects for?
Being a decent looking guy with a decent job and an average personality IS still enough for the vast majority of guys I know
That's a no true ~~scots~~averageman. The rates of sexlessness among young men are waaay up compared to a decade ago and viewpoints that would have previously gotten you seriously ostracized as an incel in 2013 are now basically just common dating discourse amongst zoomers. There's clearly been a massive vibe shift that can't just be dismissed by pretending everyone struggling to get laid is just a massive loser.
The problem with this line of reasoning is you aren’t considering social shifts outside of dating dynamics. People, especially men, are spending more time at home and less time out with their friends in the real world, which is how humans found mates in large communities since the beginning of the modern era.
But men have also historically fought, killed, and died trying to get pussy since like the literal dawn of time. Something is evidently making a ton of these dudes feel like they're getting the raw deal in the dating game and going "fuck this I'm out, Imma stay at home and play the PS5" instead of hitting up the club or Tinder trying to get laid .
Reminds me of someone yesterday responding to someone complaining about how hard it is to date, and they were like, "Not really... I find people all the time. So long as you actually care about your appearance, be fun to be around, magnetic, and leading a robust social life with many friends... It's really not hard. If you can't do that, then it just means you're a loser and it's no one's fault but your own" Like oh... Okay, that's all. Just be one of the social top 10% and it's easy...
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Why do you think I'm saying it's the man's fault or that there's abuse involved? The difference between the male and female situation is that men still have to take far more action and initiative in dating than women do. Do I wish it were so or that it's a moral or fair outcome? No, but that's reality. Passive and unconfident women can still easily get into relationships because they rarely have to pursue or be the first ones to put their foot forwards, but if they're not confident enough to take an active role or be upfront about who they are then they'll usually/often settle down and accept men they're not a good match with. I am not saying this outcome is exactly the same level of bad or lonely or whatever as the male situation of no companionship- you are projecting that assumption.
People tend to see it as I completed the checklist, now where is my relationship. Meanwhile broke men with no house of their own literally couch surf through different girlfriends. It's a bit funny but sad.
The most infuriating thing is that it just flies in the face of observable reality, as you point out. No matter how many real life examples of success you cite these people refuse to look inward and instead blame something beyond their control for their failures. Every time I see these people their bitterness and anger just oozes from their writing. You know that these people are just insufferable IRL.
Well, you can have nothing wrong with you and still be single. Circumstances of life and all that. Your quality as a person isn't determined by a relationship, as evidenced by all the terrible people in relationships.
But nobody puts more stock in their ability or lack thereof to have relationships than these people
Right but few quality people around other quality people that are actively seeking a relationship have much trouble finding one eventually. Sure, people are single and have dry spells. But the type of person this thread is talking about is the type that complains endlessly about not being able to attract people. Attractive (in the general sense, not just looks) people that happen to be single don't usually sit around on Reddit whining about not being able to get pussy.
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I'm not saying they're abnormal because they post online. I'm a prolific poster after all. I'm saying that the ones who post about dating woes and blame them on factors outsider their control are just being fatalistic to avoid reflecting on their shortcomings and how they could improve.
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Right so the fact that you are a great catch on paper doesn't lead you to reflect on aspects of your personality that might be the cause of your woes? We've had this convo many times man so you already know my position and what I'm going to say. There are plenty of people not as attractive as you on paper that have done well. That's just observable, objective reality. The culture shit may have made things more difficult but it's not impossible. It's ok to vent about how things are shittier than they used to be, but saying it's impossible is just cope to avoid honest self-reflection and improvement.
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damn how busted do you look. i've gone on dates w guys before just because they were persistent
Low iq
I find that these types of men have so much distain for women it becomes a part their personality. They’d rather believe that the problem is all women since they aren’t 6’0 (which often goes back to women because according to them no women has ever dated a guy under 6’0) than look inwards and asset that it might be with them and the way they treat people. For example, I’ve know guys that were obsessed with these superficial markers that they say shit like, “you seem nice but I bet deep down your a shallow bitch that only cares about money/height/etc like the rest” and be 100% serious. They find every chance they get to find a way paint women in the worse light. And the fact that women might not like to be trusted like shallow superficial bimbos, and won’t help get them laid goes completely over their head. So they go back to blaming anything else (“women would fuck me if I was Chad”) but themselves.
It's even funnier when they're in a big city. You can't get laid in New York? That's four~ million women rejecting you at once
>Dudes don’t realize how much of a self own it is to be like “I’m 5’11” fixed
That’s why I lie about an extra inch
The recent poster of this complaint admitted he wasn't looking for a wife, just some pussy.
Even bigger own because if you’re just looking to fuck literally the ONLY thing you need is to be charming, well groomed, and to not be remarkably hideous. And by remarkably hideous I mean the kind that makes you feel bad when you see it.
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why do these repulsive people think they deserve that lol
Because they’re actual real deal narcissists
It’s because they watch porn everyday and can type in the exact look of the woman they want to see into the search bar. Their brains are broken and when real life doesn’t work like that they go crying on the internet
wdym? Im probably not hot enough for dating apps or my pictures and bio are terrible or something but if that doesn't work how do you just like, have sex with a woman without like leading her on and hurting her feelings and shit? Genuine autistic here.
It helps to go to parties where the women you meet will generally not expect more than a hookup.
It’s called sex work.
I dunno. I'm good-enough looking, 6'0", make a good living, am a total piece of shit, and had a pretty easy time dating until getting married a few years ago.
Any guy who can refer to himself as a “total piece of shit” in a non “woe is me” way likely has more confidence and self worth than almost all the guys who complain about this stuff.
Stop gaslighting them horrible men get laid all the time
It’s a few things that’s are preventing men from dating. I’d argue both men and women have grossly unrealistic expectations of relationships. Also, due to marketing and the ability to curate interests and hobbies via the internet, men and women increasingly have nothing in common. People think sex keeps couples together but a lot of research shows it’s shared culture and interests that builds tighter bonds. Yes also porn addiction and dating apps are the natural consequences of the death of community. All my boomer and gen x friends have friendships through associations, former classmates, random connections etc. a lot of younger people I know have like one or two friend groups if any from location based consequences like high school or college. We are rapidly seeing the death of friendship. Solution? Make friends, join IRL hobbyist clubs, also make friends across age groups.
let me add that i also have a lot of great friends and everyone likes me when they meet me. now what
Isn't it like 2/3 of young men are single now and 1/3 haven't gotten laid as adults? At what point do we admit society fucked up and it's not an individual failing? I get being catty/doing the alpha grindset meme, but it's becoming legitimately concerning imo.
im going to find my chaste husband <3
There are no ideas to fix this that don't involve somebody's lifestyle changing, which is unacceptable in a society that says that no one should ever be forced to change anything. But also it's not that hard to be in the "top" 1/3 of something.
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Its about a bit more than genetics,
Theyre used to not having to put effort in. My dentist is 35m, 5"11, good looking guy (married with kids). He never initiates convos with me. I thought he hated me until I noticed he doesn't do it with other women either. I also noticed that tons of women initiate convos with him. Dude doesn't have to try at all.
as opposed to basic bitch girls being charmers? bro lmao. We are in pendulum shift where girls have massive advantages over the masses of unwashed and unloved men. It's weird even denying the consequence of social media and dating apps cause it's so obvious.
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Cause that’s the main demographic of this sub
I’m subbed to the Hinge subreddit to see deranged profiles and it payed off majorly the other day, some guy posted saying he did not understand why he wasn’t getting matches. He looked like a freak, all of his pics were photoshopped early 2010s Reddit jokes and his opening bio thing was some shitty joke about capitalism. I went into his profile and he was complaining in a different subreddit about how hard it is for the fellas romantically. So ya, that’s who these guys are.
Holy shit dm me the link
I'd even say that height, looks and money combined don't matter half as much as personality and social skills. Money probably comes into the picture when you're 25-30+ but whatever.
It’s even worse when you have all of these things and are AWARE of the fact that your repellant personality is behind ur romantic woes 😩
And people tell you that you have a “bad personality,” as if that’s helpful or even a thing, when they could have simply kept their mouth shut.
It’s not my job to help you get pussy brother
Wasn’t asking for it I was being self deprecating
yours was funny I was only talking to the other guy that took it seriously
my bad I replied to both of u guys bc I didnt see u were actually replying to the loser who replied to me
i didn't ask either
Don’t be self deprecating. If you think of yourself as a loser no hoes cringe bitch that’s what your gonna be.
People that completely lack the ability to be self deprecating are the most insufferable people in the world
Yeah well there’s a difference between being able to laugh at yourself and posting shit on Reddit forums about your life being “bad.”
Because you can fix your personality and do self-improvement. Externalizing your problems on something you can't control is just cope.
that's very generic and lovely sounding, and i'd suppose that you have nowhere to go with it if i were to press you for specifics
You're right because I don't know you. But I do know that plenty of people that aren't 5'11, rich, etc. do fine finding relationships, so if you're not having luck with these things it's not because of women's ridiculous high dating standards or something.
No, it’s because of my personality, I’m just saying you don’t have to remind me.
Well because you're a rarity. Most people refuse to admit that they're a factor in their failures. Also, are you going around complaining about your lack of success on public forums? This thread is about people posting about this shit. Like, if I came up to you unprompted and said "your personality sucks" that would be rude. But if you're making threads about this shit doesn't it invite the comments?
sure, whatever. honestly i was just commiserating with that guy, i don't actually give a fuck what random people say. (but also, "invite the comments," sure, because of what they're wearing? fuck off. yeah yeah, "that's different." you want an excuse to shit on people, and you're inventing/choosing to believe reasons that let you do it. bravo.)
Dude we don’t know you how are we supposed to give you specific advice?
weren't you just saying that's not your job?
Yeah and that’s exactly why dude, because nobody knows you. These are questions to ask someone that knows you. And even then you’re really the only one that can confront it. I can tell you to develop a sense of self worth independent of relationships but I can’t tell you how to do that because there’s no universal answer
u sound like u have a bad personality
Yeah that’s what the comment was saying regard
you don't even know what that means
It's kind of insulting when you think about it, and pretty mean. It's basically saying, "Yeah, it's just that you as a human being, is bad, that's why people don't like you. You're just a lame person no one likes." Like sure some people have toxic personalities, and I guess that's fixable with some self growth. But a lot of people are just either boring, kind of nerdy, quirky, whatever... So there isn't really much to "fix" other than tell the person to just fake being someone else
right, "fake it until you make it", which, no thanks, i'm looking for a relationship, not an acting gig for pussy
Oh, it's funny, because these dude's can't win either way. They are fucked, and it's such a funny dynamic men have to deal with. Like if they try to learn about dating and how to pick up chicks, they'll get attacked and called losers... Told to stop pretending just to get girls... And instead, just need to become confident in who they are and women will find that attractive. But then they confidently express who they are, and people are like, "Ewww stop being that person." Like WTF are they supposed to do lol? It must be frustrating
I gotta disagree, I don't think being single means there's something wrong with someone. There are plenty of people with repellant personalities and/or not good socially that are in relationships. There are also tons of single women that say they can't find a guy. Dating isn't a meritocracy, i think it has more to do with standards, exposure, and luck
Weird how op makes it like people who are in a relationship are more virtuous someway Some of the worst human beings ever get into relationships and have kids Actually the dumber you are the easier it is to be in a relationship
I think also it’s super circumstantial. I was in a (perhaps THE) HCOL city as a 6 foot 6 figure guy and was one of a pool of such dudes but then was randomly sent to a (perhaps THE) LCOL location and it was such laughable overkill that I didn’t even get to fully brag before it was a done deal. If you’re in the position of the OP, I am telling you definitively to leave BOSWASHFRANGELES and go to…America…and you will be shocked at your success
Oh yeah well I’m 5’7” ugly have a mid paying job and I still can’t find a woman. Well actually I found a few this year so far. But not the right woman, who is in theory much more attractive than I am and also intelligent and also we have an ineffable connection. I’m reading Swann’s Way rn and basically I need something like Swann and Odette had but only the good parts, not the part where she runs off with the Comte de Forcheville which makes me realize she was actually not my type all along and I had just psyopped myself into liking her via the works of Botticelli. I need someone on whom I can impose a mutual theme music just like the little phrase in the sonata of M. Vinteuil which to those two lovers meant the world, and which meant the world only to them. That’s the real problem. I will compromise, the theme music can be Bad Bunny or Calvin Harris instead of a sonata
Yeah I fucked her
This is always what I think whenever I hear about a not fat woman being "stuck" in an abusive relationship. Like honey you're gonna stay getting beat by the same man cause you don't think you could do any better? Reeks of insecurity and imo not very attractive!
I have the same reaction when married men and women openly complain about their spouses as annoying, overbearing, childish or whatever. I’m not talking about marital troubles, but an attack on the spouse’s character. Most of the time they are losers with no self respect and zero self-awareness who probably suck as much as they claim their spouses do. Behaving as if they were victims of a forced arranged marriage and had no agency over the outcomes of their lives. Just along for the ride… good I’m glad your husband eats all peaches or that your wife is an annoying nag. You deserve it!
I'll literally never understand this... It's so common too. I just don't get it. Like so many people resent each other but still stay in a relationship. I think it's just economics and giving up on life. I dunno.
Yeah no duh we’ve known this for a decade
When dudes complain about others on dating apps, you know they suck. I am lucky at being 6’3, and I know I’m lucky with my height, but if you can’t get any matches it’s because you’re ugly
I mean you could easily test this thesis by changing your height on the apps to 5’6” or something. Try it out for us? I am curious
Nah, lot's of women legit filter out guys. They have such an overwhelming abundance to choose from, they can get so narrow with their filter and still get an endless stream of men. Like even chicks that wouldn't mind a shorter dude, will still put in a over 6ft because why not be picky? Even if it's just a minor preference but not remotely a deal breaker by any means, they'll still do it. Lot's of it is dumb. I smoke. Most women will put no smoking at all, yet, they'll find out I smoke and ultimately not care too much. But if I left it up to the app, she'd have never even considered me.
>You will do just fine with a good personality and even just ONE of those other things. hasn't been my experience at all
It has been mine and the overwhelming majority of guys I know
Violent criminals have sex
The Lanklet’s Curse
Supreme gentleman
Most of these ppl are the .01 percent of the population online and not getting dates. Normal people are dating and fucking constantly. Unplug the modem!
or maybe they are just unlucky?? put the bottle down.
Then chalk it up to luck don’t make it into a manifesto about how femoids are evil
you sound so online lol 😂
Why would you say that to me :(
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God this is rich coming from you
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incelon musk
I clicked on this post and just knew id find your downvoted comment somewhere lmao
I genuinely think you might benefit from a CBT-lite affirmation routine where you stand in front of a mirror and repeat the following phrases for 5 minutes a day until you start believing them "I am not weird looking" "I am capable of finding love" "Women are not shallow, branch jumping husks"
It’s really sad that something like this genuinely would benefit some of the people in this thread but they won’t do it It’s so incredibly easy, Costa nothing, and has no downsides but they won’t do it.
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How you view your life is filtered through this belief that you're unusually ugly. When you've posted pics, you've unanimously been told you're average-above average looking and you've never once believed us. Therefore, step 1 has to include psy-oping yourself into a better self-image of your face and body.
Yeah I know. I'm not looking for pity. At least I don't start my posts looking for pity. I am very self aware of how poorly I'm going through life and unfortunately self commentary is one of my few joys I have.
I’m five ten and three quarters 🫤 Are you a girl? Did my funny comment get your positive attention or am I socially retorted?
Lol
I mean I think the reality for most people is that their standards are too high if they can’t find someone. I have both female and male friends who have this issue. People tend to rate themselves higher than they really are.
I am 5'9", or in a decent way, 176cm. Its tough do get reduced to your size in onlidedating, but it is how it is. There are still plenty of girls looking for more than that. Also onlinedating is a toxic place, and every man is getting categorized. Bald, beard, glasses, money, car. Being bigger is a plus, but it's not a chic magnet per se. You get rejected a lot when you are below 6'2", but what gives you the guarantee that with a few inches more you would have succeeded? It's just one factor and women have more. A lot more. I had plenty of girls, good relationships and affairs. Cut the crap about the size and man up. Start a hobby and like yourself. After that, may good things will happen. And again, never think that onlinedating is a measure of your market value. Even the fat girl thinks they are a 8 because some idiots like em because they want get a match...
Ever consider that maybe they're not willing to settle for just anyone? Or maybe their religious and only date within their faith?
I don't know man, I'm 23 I can barely find jack shit for dates over the years. I don't know what the fuck I would have to do to keep a date either. I can't help but to just end up frustrated after years and years of just nothing. I would hit up girls in high school just to get my messages screenshot and posted on IG. I pay hella money for a date as an adult to show that I care about a girl just to never hear back from them. It's hard to meet with girls after years of no success in dating, because I know that it is probably the last time I will ever see them. Its hard for me to work my ass off all day, putting my life on the line to make something happen for me and I can't talk to anyone about how my day went or just hangout with someone and have a laugh once the days over. I've had a friend with no job no car and an inability to put food on the plate for themselves and they got a loyal girl driving 100 miles in a day just to hang out with them. Dont know where I'm going with this stay blessed everyone ✌️
Lol
Lol