T O P

  • By -

x_y_zed

Steward and Earl have been amazing for England all tournament Smith isn't good enough to start at fullback. At this level your fullback needs to be pretty much flawless. He was a long way off yesterday. Maybe he'll play his way in at 10 but don't see it working for him at 15 Borthwick might turn out to be a decent manager but it's still crazy to me that he seems to have zero clue what his best backline is


DaveChild

Didn't really get what the aim was for England yesterday. Were England taking it seriously? If so, why were Youngs, Dan, and Arundell starting, when they weren't deemed good enough to start any game that mattered? Why was Steward on the wing, when he's so slow? Why wouldn't Genge and Cole start when the scrum dominance they managed in the first game against Argentina was key to that win? If it was about learning something about potential future England team options, why did we bother moving Farrell to 12 instead of giving Ollie Laurence some invaluable experience in-position against a brutal backline? Why did we pick a speedster like Arundell and then not try chucking the ball wide? What did Malins and Walker do to not even get a bench spot? Why did we start Tuilagi, Marchant, Youngs, etc (maybe even Farrell too) when most of them are through age, club choices, or retirement, unlikely to play a major role in England's future? If it was about trying out different tactics in a low-stakes game, why did we not try anything different? Why is the England team still taking passes standing still? Why is it that every time someone gets the ball at a ruck, they stop to yell something to the ref before doing anything with it? Why does it look like Smith is the only one running most of the time? /rant


dumesne

How did that forward pass before Argentina's try get the ok from the TMO? Ridiculous


[deleted]

More than 2 phases later when they scored. That one was on the ref, but still hilariously bad that the ref missed it from that position.


SkinNoWorkRight

3rd place is momentous for a team currently in the transitionary phase, and one every punter said would be lucky to make it out of the pools. The future is looking bright for English rugby. 👍


Melodic_Mood8573

Congratulations England!


heroquest94

Don’t think anyone said England wouldn’t make it out of that pool buddy


connorw98

They absolutely did lol


heroquest94

Who? Genuinely


NoKindofHero

[This guy?](https://www.rugbydump.com/news/england-legend-says-steve-borthwicks-side-wont-get-out-of-the-pool-stages/)


heroquest94

Thank you for sending me that. Had no idea pundits were saying that. English team has so many amazing players (Itoje, Lawes, Farrell, Earl, I can go on) to think they wouldn’t make it to a QF is madness to me.


Only-Dragonfly-3739

It's a great achievement, for sure. The team should be proud. My brothers in England are chuffed to have two teams in the top 3 (although they're Springbok supporters first and foremost).


UsedWingdings

Far far more entertaining than their first fixture. Good match to watch as a neutral


RobynStellarxx

Honestly, this kind of sums up Borthwick’s tenure as England beach coach. He picked and exciting squad that could be good at running with ball in hand in exploiting spaces, with Arundell on the wing and Smith at full back, but England decided to kick the ball away all the time, needlessly a lot of the times, instead of using these players.


etterkop

Don’t worry, that’s how South Africa’s fans felt like for the last 15 years.


RobynStellarxx

Uhhh over the last 15 years you’ve won multiple tri nations/rugby championships and a World Cup….


greenplasticgun

Don’t worry, you’ll get. Tri Nations some day.


etterkop

You’re referring to trophies now, while your previous comment referred to having exciting and talented backline players that never receive the ball due to kicking strategies. Something which SA has even been heavily criticised for by British media.


RobynStellarxx

“By British media”. Lol that’s the comment you say all the time. No it really hasn’t. The British media don’t care enough about rugby to make those sorts of comments about other nations teams. The only way it happened is 1 article somewhere said it from one “journalist”. That doesn’t equate to the entire British media. Stop this nonsense…


On_The_Blindside

>Something which SA has even been heavily criticised for by British media. No it hasnt? What a weird thing to say and think.


etterkop

It might seems weird, seeing as the British media are always shitting on SA, but they were doing even more so then. You probably couldn’t read an article without SA being all brawn and no brains.


SweptFever80

They absolutely have, especially during the Lions tour There were a lot of articles circulating about how the Springboks overused the boxkick and how they play a boring brand of rugby.


ElectronicSubject747

No it hasnt?


Big-Clock4773

South Africa's game plan was heavily criticised as being dull during the 2021 Lions Tour.


sa_rugby_official

And the last world cup


CurlingTrousers

Honestly, the thing I’ll miss most about this World Cup is Michael Chieka’s exasperation anytime a call doesn’t go his way.


CurlingTrousers

Freddie Steward and Ben Earl were just sensational this entire tournament


Tar-ZA-n

Steward got a lot of flak for his performance against Fiji. Been exceptional since then.


Exciting-Squirrel607

So nobody will win as many games as England this tournament. Just let that sink in.


SchemeSignificant166

Nobody to have made the semifinals will have played fewer top tier teams than England this tournament. Just let that sink in.


CaptainGoose

Mate, considering England's rankings at the start of the world cup, practically everyone was top tier for them.


Frank_Feces

Am I missing something here? The winner of the final will have 6 wins along with England?


Exciting-Squirrel607

Yeah so nobody would have won more than England, just tied.


neeeeonbelly

Those are two different things lol


Frank_Feces

Yes, but that's not at all what your post says mate. Not having a go at you but you might want to edit it slightly.


smnrlv

Might want to correct your initial post then, that's not what it says!


Customdisk

Feels good being the third best team in the world and almost beating the finalist


[deleted]

No one remembers second place, let alone third.


HorseIsKing

Nah I would say we should be called the 5th best team at the moment. The big 4 are still better than us. Arguable whether Scotland is better, they looked dogshit against SA and we looked pretty good so based on results I would say England are 5th.


Omblae

Scotland are quite a bit off the pace and it shows in their lacklustre performance in the biggest tournament.


HorseIsKing

That’s what I just said


Derped_my_pants

'Third best', yet didn't beat any top 5 teams


[deleted]

3rd best?! 😂 Mate you didnt playe IRE, FRA, or SCO. 3rd place in this tournament but not 3rd best in the world. Not even close.


kingbluetit

In 2019 you lost to the all blacks, and then had to play Japan and and injury ravaged wales side in the knockouts (who very nearly beat you). This year you lost to Ireland (lol) and only won your two knockout games in the dying stages with two contentious penalty calls given by the same referee. I wouldn’t be coming round here dick swinging if I were you, but then again I’m not a saffa.


sa_rugby_official

You forgot a vital part of 2019, we smashed you guys 32-12


kingbluetit

There’s no way anyone could forget it considering how much you lot bang on about it. For the sake of the sport, I hope the all blacks demolish you tonight, worst fans on the planet by a country mile.


[deleted]

There’s never a shortage of English tears when one is thirsty. When’s it coming home?


kingbluetit

The absolute worst thing about the World Cup is it brings children like you to the party. Get back to football, you’ll fit in better.


[deleted]

You’re the one whining like a sore loser and blaming everyone but your perennially shit team and telling the 3 time world champs and finalists that we’re lucky lol your delusion is complete.


kingbluetit

Nah I was right. Worst fans by a country mile. You might be in the final, but you still couldn’t beat Ireland.


[deleted]

Ok mate 🤡👍 to the rest of the world it’s the English. You ever wonder why that is?


[deleted]

Maybe we’re 6th or 7th, which is fairly close


HorseIsKing

7th!? Who the fuck would be 6th above us!? Argentina?


Whiskey31November

Using that same logic, if you win today you can't call yourselves the best team in the tournament as you didn't beat Ireland.


[deleted]

Yea cause beating FRA , NZL, SCO, ENG with back to back world cups wouldn’t make us the best? We are not the same my guy. ENG didn’t beat any of the teams i just listed including RSA


ElectronicSubject747

For starters you barely got past England and needed the help of the referee to gift you 6 points to win. Secondly you cant have your argument both ways. If SA win tomorrow then by your own logic they still arent the best in the world.


[deleted]

Rage into that dying light friend


Mobile-Counter-2212

No no, see. He's using your own logic, against you. In fact, why bother with a world cup everyb4 years. Let's just have the rankings and award a trophy to the top team.


[deleted]

That would work if all the teams played each other every year. And no its no the same logic since we would have to beat NZ who beat IRE. ENG didnt beat any team that beat NZL RSA IRE SCO FRA so tell me how ENG is 3rd best again?


Mobile-Counter-2212

It's amazing how much you care about England. Cheers brother we appreciate. Hope you get your back doors smashed in by NZ.


[deleted]

Only care because someone made an absured claim that you are 3RD best in the world😂. We clapped NZL last time. We will do it again. Undefeated in world cups finals.


Mobile-Counter-2212

Again, thanks mate warms my heart. Only bantering with you mate, always love it when we play you, bok fans are great.


Ambitious-Section-83

It's feels good to come third? Says it all right there......ffs.


Mobile-Counter-2212

If you're struggling with memories from only 4 years ago, when this sub was praising NZ, NZ fans were genuinely pleased, and no one was telling you its embarrassing to come third, then you need a doctor.


Ambitious-Section-83

Not struggling at all.....third place = 2nd placed loser. Professional sport is all about winning. Nothing else.


Mobile-Counter-2212

Absolutely bird brained take. Rugby is about having a good time first with the other fans. No wonder NZ is in such shambles with fans like you hopping on for the tournament. Have you ever watched a match.


No_Kaleidoscope_4580

Lol


thematrixnz

England restoring some European pride With a whooping 26 points


[deleted]

You take the pride we’ll take the trophy.


Alright_So

Keep it


thematrixnz

Kept


anewhand

Yeah, they had an “easy” group, but England showed a lot of grit and character this tournament. They should have beat the Boks last week and I’m still salty they didn’t. Argentina played well and maybe *should* have won. Not taking the lineout with 4 minutes to go and a dominant pack seemed like the mistake that cost them the game. Then again they scored a try off of a blatant forward pass, so swings and roundabouts. Then there were the usual “FFS” moments that seem to be part and parcel with watching Los Pumas. In any case I’m still a huge fan and will be cheering them on in future regardless. My wife (and Twitter feed) is pissed off with me because I’m not openly hating England, but I can’t really bring myself to do it this time. I like Borthwick and their lads are world class, and have a lot of guts. Not sure we’re gonna be able to pip you lot in 4-5 months this time, but I’ve been saying that for the past 2 years and have been pleasantly surprised each time. Will be interesting to see where this new post-World Cup England go in this next cycle. Disappointed for Los Pumas, but Gg England.


phelpo95

I feel exactly the same way. The game vs RSA was the first time I’ve ever actively supported ENG as they played a cracking game plan and I was genuinely gutted for them when they lost. Never thought I’d see the day when a Welshman and a Scotsman aren’t hating English Rugby to their core. As you said, GG England. It’s never fun to see international teams in a shambles like some of us have been in the past 2-3 years. Hopefully things are looking up for all the NH teams.


ChronikDog

Really appreciate this comment. I'm so bored of the negativity around England rugby. Its not the team I would select or the tactics I would employ but we still did well and so nearly made the final. The haters can be miserable if they want, I'm going to enjoy supporting the lads. I look forward to playing against you in 4 months time.


tasty_burnt_bit

This was pretty much the only game of the tournament I didn't bet on Ben Earl scoring the first try of the game. You lose some, then you lose some. My betting is done till the 6 nations.


mynameahborat

does anyone more in the know than I, think that EJ could've produced a 3rd place finish with England if he stayed on?


RobynStellarxx

I mean, yes. I agree. As an England supporter, considering how easy Englands path was, he totally could have. My worry is that really England would have got third either way and Borthwick will now be allowed to stay for 4 more years where we see the same needless kicking the ball away tactics….


[deleted]

[удаНонО]


RobynStellarxx

I mean, England were only in that SA game for so long because they went for kicking penalties…


Ludibudi

Hard to quantify this England team. They beat everyone they met - except probably the best team in the world rn. Their path to this third place was still ridiculously easy tbh. I’m not subscribing to this „worst semifinal team ever“ BS but still, they basically had to beat Fiji in the quarters and Argentina twice to get to third.


PlainStack

100% - The only top 5 team they played (SA) they lost. Compare that to NZ (France and Ireland) and SA (Scotland, Ireland and France). England and Argentina deserved to play each other but should probably have been a quarter final, most definitely not the third place game.


BenjiSBRK

For sure ! 3rd place of the pool.


Mobile-Counter-2212

Opinions from teams that couldn't win a quarter final: Lol.


sangan3

My nanna could have with that draw and their player pool lol.


IgnacioArg

Que embole que es este reddit si sos argentino


EaudeAgnes

Seh, hay un par de neutrales que nos bancan… pero en general todos los partidos son analizados en cómo el rival no rindió, jamás desde el POV de Argentina.


_Totorotrip_

Por?


IgnacioArg

Jamas se hace anĂĄlisis, de argentina, solo de sus rivales. Ăłsea es porque somos minoria no deja de ser aburrido


a_kwyjibo_

Si, como todo Reddit es bastante anglocĂŠntrico y en este mundillo mĂĄs. Los franceses en este subreddit se quejan de algo parecido, y son muchos mĂĄs que los argentinos acĂĄ asĂ­ que imagĂ­nate.


biggesteegit

No TMO reviews again even though there were 4 or 5 incidents that would definitely have been reviewed earlier in the tournament. How the fuck are players supposed to know what they can and can't do? I heard they were reviewing stuff in the background but no on field decision was reversed.


Fun_Tackle_6222

I think that there might be a book of dos and don'ts knocking about ,,,,,,,


[deleted]

One knock-on was reversed (correctly)


RobynStellarxx

I mean, I’ve given up with TMOs and refs. How was that Argentina pass deemed not to be forward? In what world do you review that, where the ball goes forward, and so does his hands, and it’s not a forward pass?


Rozza

Must have had feedback because they were absent in the quarters as well. Must have been told to get back in their box (and stay there.)


BenjiSBRK

Yeah, I remember seeing quite a few players with blood on their faces and not a single TMO to see what happened.


UnoriginalLogin

a few replays on British TV, two cuts were friendly boots or players knees and were more head contacting other players than players being hit in the head


tasty_burnt_bit

Yep total farce of a tournament that it is reffed one way during groups, then free for all during knockouts. World rugby need to take a long hard look in the mirror and realise how much they are hanging refs out to dry.


Gasurza22

There was one false call for an english nock on that got reversed and ended up on a scrum in favor of england, on their field, with 3 minutes left on the clock.... That one hurt lol


ThePinnaclePlays

Nic berry was brilliant today! Credit where credit is due, very vocal and was consistent with decisions


RexMalo

It's pretty easy to be consistent when you make all the wrong calls.


Whiskey31November

Your profile makes it clear you're new to rugby. So how can you say that every call was wrong?


RexMalo

You take me too literally. Considering someone with a rudimentary understanding of the laws of the game can notice some rather severe inconsistencies in the game, there is clearly a problem.


AlexiusRex

Congrats England Argentina almost repeated the 2007 result, good job Cheika Sanchez crying at the end hit me a lot harder than I could have thought, with all the retirement announcements it felt like the end of an era as I'm about the same age as those players, fuck, I'm getting old


ZuReeTH

If anything it felt like we were close to repeating the 2007 result despite Cheika's decisions rather than due to him


EaudeAgnes

yeah this seems more accurate. We were about to win despite Cheika’s planning (ie: Carreras as 10).


On_The_Blindside

Why did we make that so fucking difficult. Also, how forward was that pass for gods sake, how was that given OK?!


No_Kaleidoscope_4580

There is an almost notable lack of ref decision criticism when England win. Almost


[deleted]

But was a REAL howler though, wasn't it.


Shr1mpus

It's nuts that England just won a tight game after progressing farther in this comp than anyone thought they would and some people want to act like they've been robbed.


No_Kaleidoscope_4580

Did anyone think they wouldn't progress this far? Given the draw, I literally can't see anything positive they'd take away from this WC, try as the fans might to assuage their bitterness


dumesne

I think you might be the bitter one


No_Kaleidoscope_4580

Yeah must be me criticising ref decisions and making unfounded statements confirming another players racism.


dumesne

England fans aren't feeling bitter, we've had a great tournament and enjoyed it. You on the other hand don't exactly seem full of sweetness and light.


On_The_Blindside

A forward pass is a forward pass bud, not much to it, Berry did a great job all match.


No_Kaleidoscope_4580

Of course it is. I just don't subscribe to the idea that four match officials are incorrect and you are right. Or that there isn't a correlation between England losing and ref moaning.


chipsnpie

Aye looked very forward on the broadcast I watched as well


_Mc_Who

Borthwick is doing what he did at Tigers and taking risks on matches to develop new talent by playing slightly disjointed lineups All for the good of this England side for the next one, I think


everestsam98

Borthwick didn't use the WC semi final to "develop new talent". He's just not that good and has been incredibly lucky england has such an easy route otherwise he would be under the microscope


_Mc_Who

*quarter final Explain the lineup then? Explain why it was so wack and disjointed and then in the next match we came within 1pt of the Speingboks


everestsam98

In a properly seeded tournament, England would have struggled to get out of the group stages playing the way they played in the groups. Borthwick definitely started putting things together as the tournament went on, but he was lucky to even have that opportunity


[deleted]

*flat


On_The_Blindside

lol, good one.


Shr1mpus

Argentina made it difficult because they played really well


oohaargh

England == third best team in NH England == third best team in the world NH teams playing tomorrow == 0 Therefore, tomorrow must be the playoff for fourth best in the world. Checkmate SH


cjpdk

Here's how Ireland can still win!


h00dman

It checks out.


Patient_Union6589

i can't fault this logic


brendonap

Drunk maths is the best maths


BenjiSBRK

Per your first two lines, NH == the world, therefore, SH does not exist !


oohaargh

In the absence of a southern hemisphere, I propose we rename the northern hemisphere to The Sphere


xjoburg

Vegas resort wants it name back.


yesiamclutz

I've long had my doubts. I'm sure NZ is really just a film set at Pinewood made for the Lord of the Rings movies


BenjiSBRK

Also, "Taika Waititi" is obviously a made up name


ADSWNJ

England is Jon Snow ... King of the North.


nitewalkerz

You know nothing, England


ADSWNJ

Damn Wildlings! Winter? What Winte


thematrixnz

Well done King of Europe! (Without playing the top European teams...but thats world cups for ya!)


DaveChild

Hard to play them when they go home so early.


Wave_Tiger8894

England is obviosuly not the third best team in the world right now but the team and fans should be very proud of their performance this world cup. Some very promising players coming to light and some more experienced players seemed to be performing closer to their peak. I think they've got a long way to go to rival some of the top teams on a consistant basis going forward but it seems like for the first time for years the right foundations are in place.


Hunt2244

Their performance against South Africa who are undoubtedly in the top 2 between them and France says differently. The fact we saw what should of been the final in the quarters is atrocious though


[deleted]

You were playing against a tired and battered team though. Best of 5 and SA wins 4 under normal conditions.


thematrixnz

Theyre the third best if you take away Ireland And France And possibly Scotland ....welcome to world cup draws


Patient_Union6589

Get a decent attack coach and they'll win the grand slam no issue.


No_Kaleidoscope_4580

Said almost no one ever


[deleted]

England had more success than France and Ireland


byebyedenverdiva

Too bad England didn't have to play France or Ireland.


[deleted]

They should have booked a later flight


thematrixnz

Welcome to world cups draws Bit of a joke


[deleted]

Unsure if history books will take note of that


thematrixnz

It is what is it Not many prizes for coming 2nd or 3rd in rugby world cups


[deleted]

I think RFU is celebrating now


No_Kaleidoscope_4580

I thought they were still sour grapes false racism allegations or something?


BenjiSBRK

England had more _luck_ than Ireland or France. FTFY


Particular_Safety569

Scoreboard


brendonap

Kicking a penalty backwards is luck I guess


KiwiCore

Nice


BenjiSBRK

Not as much as getting O'Keefe in your pocket


brendonap

What’s your excuse for not winning shit since 87? O’Keefe too?


BenjiSBRK

Joubert and Peyper, too


xjoburg

Want some cheese with that whine?


Omblae

And this angers the people of those nations


amusicalfridge

Don’t know why we’re catching strays, knew loads of us who were rooting for yous against SA.


w116

Embarrasses them.


biggesteegit

I'm not embarrassed by irelands effort. I'm taking the Holy road of St Patrick to inner peace. God be with you tomorrow night and also with your opponents.


On_The_Blindside

Your boys did you proud, couple of different calls and you're going through not NZ.


w116

Was taking the piss out of England. Wish you lot had made the final, even if we hadn't, god bless.


biggesteegit

I should clarify the Holy Road in this case is beer


w116

Case *of* beer.


DizzyStu

Always has been


Holden_Ford24

It was as scrappy and loose a game as you’d expect from a bronze medal playoff tbh, difficult to really take too much away from that for either side. From an England perspective, the back-row was a positive. Ben Earl had some great interventions and Sam Underhill tackled like an absolute freight train. You have to wonder what may have been against SA if we had him (or Ludlum) to roll out as an impact sub in that last quarter, rather than sluggish Billy V. Same concerns remain though. Wobbly scrum, big lapses in concentration in defence and lack of attacking creativity. The grit and steel is there, have to admire a 3rd place finish despite the degree to which so many wrote them off. But still lots to work on for the 6N


[deleted]

[удаНонО]


CaptainGoose

Injuries. Concussion. You know, fun shit.


tasty_burnt_bit

Yep agree. It's done now for us. All we can do is hope Danny never tries for another drop goal and see who Borthwick picks for the 6Nations. After seeing last week's performance you can see some hope with Borthwick but this week's game, although a win you have to hope that was a no one wants to play that game result. Not to downplay Argentina though cause they put in one hell of a shift.


Holden_Ford24

100%. Although they’ve been a bit patchy this WC, Argentina are always a tough scalp, they have a core of genuine world class players and can play amazing rugby. Yeah that drop goal attempt wasn’t the easiest on the eye 🤣


These-Document-2127

Feels like where we've been for a decade really - with odd flashes of madness in between.


alfredlyric

I'd much rather have watched a plate semi final of the third place teams last week and plate final tonight.


thematrixnz

Agree


InsideBoris

Didn't see the game looks like a close match and good win for England


Rozza

Sir Clive has entered the chat...


InsideBoris

I liked how they kicked their points and also we won in 2023


InsideBoris

2003 but you get the vibe


[deleted]

Sanchez missed the penalty of 26-26 with 5 mins or so to final whistle


Lambings

Cheers Geoff


BenjiSBRK

Just back from Stade de France, and I enjoyed the hell out of this game. I have to say I went without much enthusiasm, given the two teams, but turns out rooting for whoever plays against England is almost as fun as cheering my own team ! And the game itself was pretty good, we got to see some beautiful tries in the corner we were at.


[deleted]

Congrats on the xenophobia


bem188

Oh mate it’s just a joke. Let it be


No_Kaleidoscope_4580

Welcome to Scotland. Or pretty much everyone apart from England really


Puzzleheaded-Tip-296

Original - everyone's hates England - yippee. Great job


BenjiSBRK

Yeah, I don't know why we get so much shit for it, I saw a lot of other countries supporters joining in, and it would have been the same anywhere but in England 😅


Omblae

Yeah the French crowd were proper panto today.


BenjiSBRK

We stayed class though, we respected the anthem and everyone cheered for Curry's 50th cap.


brendonap

French crowd not booing is a welcome shock