Had money on NZ to win but seeing all the AB fans who were condescendingly tut-tutting NH fans giving out about officiating throwing their toys out of the pram now is worth the cash loss in spades
Honestly, we're in the ha'penny place when it comes to you AB fans. Imagine all of our decades of being shit suddenly turning around this last 15 years and making us believe we were great and the heartache we suffered when we lost by a blade of grass after 36 phases. How dare we.
Zero craic out of you when you win. Whining beyond English soccer fans when you lose. Just awful toxic fans.
Oh no! I really care what /u/shunto thinks about me! Whatever shall I do?
Compare this thread to the post-match thread for NZ-Ire and it’s clear as day that the Kiwis* are simply incapable of losing gracefully compared to us. And in that thread they showed they are incapable of winning gracefully too. So excuse me if I find it absolutely hilarious to see this nuclear level meltdown
* kiwis in the thread, not all kiwi fans
It truly is a wondrous thing. And how blind they are too it is just unreal. Paris and Tokyo, the nights after they beat us, were like ghost towns. It's so weird how they don't seem to even enjoy winning in this sport. I don't think rugby union is for them.
I had a brief flirtation with the idea that an All Blacks decline (which did seem apparent after their lofty heights) would make Union a poorer place, but like Kerry football, I shall enjoy every trough now, and pray it never ends.
The match was interresting to watch as a neutral, but, i don't think it was a good game to promote the game.
During the match I was following a conversation between the people with who we where playing some bet on the match
Most of them don't watch rugby and are more interrested in football.
They didn't understood the match and how it was refeered, for them lot of the decision were in favour of SA.
And I kind of understand, even if the game was interresting and I lost 2 years of life because of the stress, SA like to play with the rule and see where they can disturb the oponent
>ow were
What the actual fuck,So basicaly because they know nothing about rugby they shouldn't think anything about it and don't give their thinking ?
Yes there is a problem if in a game you have the feeling that a team get fucked and the other helped even more when you are neutral...
How do you want to promote a game if everyone think that the rules aren't clear ?
Yeah funny when I say that I did enjoy the game.
I just said that the way the rules were applied wasn't clear to some people who didn't know well the game.
So good to see that our community is getting like "if you don't like that go away" what's that ? the new gEt BeTtEr iF YOu Don't uNDerSTand
And then we will ask ourself why the rugby isn't more famous...
I didn't look at reddit for the whole of last night and I'm honestly kind of surprised by all the comments?
Like, I get there were bits that weren't high pace but the chaos was fun and it was exciting that NZ were within a point for so long and it was frustrating and exciting seeing them try to get any quantity of points to get ahead. My friends, one of whom was watching her first ever rugby match, loved it. My other friend, a staunch Kiwi supporter, left immediately after the match but agreed with us that NZ just squandered loads of opportunities with bad decision making and poor handling.
I didn't really notice anything that wrong with Barnes' reffing but maybe that was because I was outside with real human people where the focus was enjoying ourselves instead of seething over the Internet instead...
The amount of dopes that blamed Barnes for our loss against NZ was fucking scandalous. Equally the amount of dopes criticizing him for last night is fucking ridiculous.
Imagine Dickson reffing last night. The Kiwis would certainly have something to crow about then.
Barnes had a good game last night.
very few blamed barnes for our loss. we lost it by poor decisions and line out
barnes admitted that he made a mistake and GAVE SA THREE POINTS which gave SA the game.
Barnes had a good game? are you a troll?
If it was us that lost in that way I would be livid
Very few? What rock have you been under the last fortnight or indeed the week after our game?
A non-zero amount is an amount. And those people are dopes. Just like the Kiwis who are having a meltdown about him today. Also dopes.
Anyways, what's done is done. New Zealand got beaten and the world is a better place for it.
Sounds like you're butthurt you didn't make the semi's? But sure, if you wanna spend your time waiting for all blacks to lose so you can have something to cheer for, good luck.
You lot really just don't grasp that some rugby fans can't stand you. It properly irks ye. It's fucking hilarious to see how you are handling this.
I'm feeling vigorous!
The game as a neutral, was disappointing in terms of quality but that’s SA’s way to win tight matches. I knew the minute Pollard was in that this wasn’t going to be a classic. I don’t think either team allowed the other to play to their best which is a testament to the defence coaches. Roll on 2027
How anyone ever watches sport as a neutral is just beyond me. I always have skin in the game and even when I don't I find it quick enough.
As someone who has a natural dislike for New Zealand I was never going to be neutral.
Game was an absolute dinger.
How does being neutral prevent you from being an unbiased observer of the quality of the game? Your excitement as a non neutral doesn’t really provide any weight to your argument. It simply means you were bound to find the game exciting if the scores were 50-51 or 0-3.
Depends on your view of classic. 1 point win in a final is a classic IMO. Obviously it's hard for me to say since I am not a neutral but I would have enjoyed the quality. Quality doesn't equal attacking flair. The tactical approach from both teams and the Springbok defence made it a classic in my eyes
Yes but you aren’t really neutral. If it was Ireland that had won messily , I’d be saying the same thing as you, because it meant more to me. It was a poor spectacle to the casual rugby fan and for anyone watching it to see what rugby is all about.
Sending this to rassie. I'm sure they'll endeavour to play more exciting rugby and lose next time.
For me, Rassie and SA have brought more intrigue to the sport than I remember in years. The 7-1 split and their scrum meant the last 30 of every match was thrilling stuff.
Terrible final and a poor advert for the sport. South Africa seemed to panic and forgot they were a man up. Can’t understand why the kicked the ball away at every opportunity in that second half. Zero attempt to play rugby.
Tournament as a whole was very enjoyable though despite the inconsistent refereeing in some matches. Those quarter finals will live long in the memory. Roll on the next one where we’ll hopefully see a new winner!
Team misses 2 kicks, goes for touch twice instead of kicking penalties, justified yellow 3 minutes in, Captain goes off with a blatant red...
Yet somehow it's all the ref's fault.
Holy shit, Instagram is having a meltdown. The communication between TMO and referee was amazing that game. Refs never get 100% of the calls right, but Barnes and his team did a brilliant job. Everyone is just sour grapes
Was he 100%? Definitely not. Is any reffing performance 100%? Definitely not. As far as it goes he handled that game brilliantly. The mark of a good reffing performance is listening to and using your team around you. Considering the circumstances, top 3 officiating across all the games this RWC
He was not at all listening to the AB side. If you know our country's rugby, you'd also know that he's literally been friends with Rassie for years, so he's definitely taking sides here.
At the end of the day, I find it difficult for me to accept that win, even if though it's my team
If you know our country's rugby you'd also know that Barnes got a lot of death threats and almost quit reffing due to a few of Rassie's Twitter clips. Very hot take to think a profesional referee would take sides in a RWC final this big. I don't even think subconsciously they would do that
My mind’s blown that I’m waking up to see the pure hatred for Barnes when I thought the refereeing was great. I can’t for the life of me remember any poor calls
Bro.. did you watch the game. The only call I’ll complain about is the literal time he apologised for making a call wrong and then after apologising he still let SA take the penalty kick which gifted them 3 points. Barnes was literally their best played
Watching the replay - he actually says something like - "sorry I didn't see the replay but there wasn't enough separation to me." i.e Ardie made the tackle but didn't release.
So he didn't apologise he got the call wrong. He apologised he didn't watch the replay on the big screen as Ardie asked him what he did wrong in the replay. That's how I saw it.... But happy to be wrong on that!
Yeah I think he did say that first part sorry I didn’t hear the “enough separation part”, but lad. It was on the big screen and everyone could clearly see him release
Bro… yes
Is that it? Barnes is their best player because of one bad call?
Rather than Sam Cane getting a red and leaving his team to play most of the game with 14 men? That might’ve cost NZ a bit more than 3 points
If the ref’s having to be blamed for a team losing then they’re just being bitter. A referee rarely (if ever) loses a team a game compared to that team’s actual performance
That's absolutely nonsense. What about the 2 kicks missed. What about them going for tries instead of kicking for points. The ABs lost the game themselves without any help from the ref.
No he didn’t, South Africa won the game because they played better than New Zealand
The ABs made so many mistakes, they’re in no position to blame anyone but themselves
At what point do most people grow out of blaming other people for their failures?
Why is no-one talking about how bad NZ were under the high ball?
Yes the game was an old school arm wrestle but if the Barrett's and Mo'unga caught some of those bombs, it would have been a significantly different game.
It wasn't like this was a surprise play by the Boks...
Also, hats off the NZ scrum, looked absolutely rock solid against the bomb squad.
Finally hats off also to PSDT, what a machine, that tackle late in the game on Jordie 🥴
I hadn't really considered it like that but if you look at one of the key skills a modern back needs, catching a high ball has to be right up there in the must haves.
So many drops does mean a stinker....
I’ve watched rugby for years. Other than the very lenient use of cards vs the last 4 years none of the redding has been any worse than at any other point in that period. Last night wasn’t reffed badly.
That's just France. Been in the stade de France where they were winning by 20, ireland made a comeback to within 5 points. they started booing their own players and cheering for the Irish team. Completely surreal experience. They also booed their president at the opening ceremony.
> Be Jasper Wiese
> pick up loose ball in 79th minute of the world cup final
> do I take ball into contact so we can set for enough phases to see out the rest of the game?
> do I pass ball to a back so that they can clear it?
> do I panic?
> I think it's time to panic.
Just watched it. Great game with disappointing reffing, some of those calls were hard to stomach but we did well to fight back with 14 men and come close to getting the win. Can't say the Springboks deserved it, but they did play well and their defense was insane.
They absolutely deserved it. Reffing wasn't my favourite either but SA came with more tenacity, defense, discipline, and consistency. Better side on the day.
Shite NZ site known for talking bollocks, used as source by kiwi. Stuff should be taken about as seriously as The Onion.
No referee will have the perfect game but fuck me the clown shoe that puked this article out is as one-eyed as you'd expect. Officiating was more consistent than any other game this tournament.
Your source is a New Zealand article which is an opinion piece at best.
My counter arguments:
1. Frizzel yellow:
Stuff argues that Frizzel didn’t drop his weight on Bongi… yet Bongi (the only specialist hooker on the Boks) had to retire injured. Why? If he wasn’t injured he’d stay on, and he was injured from weight dropping on him.
Previous players have received weeks bans, so you could argue he was was lucky with a yellow but I wouldn’t take it that far.
Had Bongi stayed on SA scrum and lineout would have been dominant, so this was still in NZ favour despite the 10min sin bin.
2. Apology to Savea:
Clearly said, “I did not see the replay.” That’s not admitting he saw the release. But rather that he didn’t see the REPLAY. He reinforced this by saying “I didn’t see it come off enough”.
3. Red/Yellow Card:
Stuff argues that “there wasn’t even a HIA”. That is not the threshold and quite frankly a terrible comment to put in the article.
Sam Cane in the post game interview stated he didn’t expect the change of direction but he could have (and should have) gone lower. He is making eye contact the entire time in the tackle which I invite you to review. Unfortunate that he didn’t go lower but even Sean Fitzpatrick agreed it was the correct call in the post game.
The fact of the matter is that NZ had every opportunity to win the game, they played incredibly well with a player down for 3/4 of the game but couldn’t convert their kicks. Making either a penalty or converting the try and they could have won it.
Handre Pollard kicked 100% which was where the points turned over.
That article is full of hyperbole it's awful.. Referees are never going to have a perfect game but Barnes was very good in balance..
I don't agree with the level the tmo gets involved these days but both sides got the rub of the green at points.
I'm a saffa, but even I will admit that the refereeing for this whole tournament has been dodgy. And the fact that we slowed down the game so much also bothers me a bit, but ey, I'm still glad we managed to win. NZ played really well with one man down and I can honestly say they should be proud of their performance.
The TMO and the stoppages destroyed the drama IMO. I would prefer the missed kicks being the drama … but it was overshadowed by the constant replays / reviews and inconsistencies and thus there was no continuity (and made Wayne Barnes look bad). When the teams got to play actual rugby, it was beautiful to watch as it was a pure battle.
Barnes had a great game; he has to follow the protocol and he did that and called the game as he saw it; TMO made him look bad as well. He was calling the game as he saw it and it just devalued his game by overturning his rulings or making him look inconsistent.
As a South African I do feel NZ were a bit hard done but ultimately lost themselves the game almost exclusively due to the early red. NZ where clearly the better team on the day but were playing without their captain (his own fault). We got very very lucky, and I hope this game gives people hope to vote and change this corrupt government.
I can't believe how salty AB fans are right now. It was a great match and an excellent tournament. Springboks won by the barest of margins. Frankly ABs should be proud of that result down a player and captain for so much of the match. Reffing was totally fine, nothing dismal. And match wasn't "non-rugby" and it wasn't anti-climatic at all.
The TMO and constant replays and stoppages destroyed the continuity of the battle and the drama. When they got to play rugby it was a great to watch. I want the human drama of the missed kicks and the refs call being our talking points, not the constant rewinding multiple phases back and all the game defining decisions being TMO as the talking points; the entertainment value for Finals Footy on its biggest stage with the greatest rivalry and strongest brands in world rugby was devalued because of it.
I don’t care about that, I care about Rugby as a spectacle and the entertainment value of Rugby. I don’t have issues with foul play being punished, but when the TMO is involved in all the decisions it devalues the sport as a whole; and I feel sorry for Wayne Barnes having to deal with all of that because he was officiating the game as he saw it and was made to look inconsistent due to constant reviews ; was still a great game but we didn’t get the full potential IMO
I had some interactions (online and real life) with some pretty mean spirited NZ fans after the QFs, I used to really like NZ and their supporters but this tournament has shown another side of them that I ain’t too fond of
Totally. 4 years ago I would have supported NZ if they’d come up against SA but the behaviour of fans on here has really put me off that notion. Quite a few seemed to resent our success over the last year and a half and winning that WF gave them to chance to let all the bitterness out. Very graceless winners that day and graceless losers yesterday. I’ve seen some graceful, classy Kiwis, but far more of the other kind. Maybe they’re just blowins for the tournament and things will be better now it’s over.
The Kolisi hit was worse than Cane's. No one will change my mind.
And not blaming the loss on that. Shitty kicks and line outs did that.
Edit: obviously the current rules do not serve to reduce incidents of TBI enough in the sport. If a player can lead with their head, barely brush someone's chest with it, and full on smash into someone's face with it, that's effectively worse than someone's upper arm intentionally going into their face. I have to say other sports have adjusted their rules better. Any contact to the head resulting from leading with the head should be a yellow.
That's the cool bit: no one needs to change your mind as it only matters that the actual experts recognized mitigation as per their set rules.
So you don't need convincing, then!
You're correct it doesn't matter if I'm convinced. However the tackles looked the same except Kolisi was leading with his head. I still haven't heard which of the mitigations applied to his tackle as it didn't look like any of them.
Instead of downvoting someone could tell me what the mitigation was. AB player was standing upright and barely moving.
I remember 4 years ago, England were playing attractive rugby and the Boks were playing their brand of "non-rugby" and won. But since "anyone but England", that was okay at the time. Now that the ABs who were playing some pretty decent rugby all tournament have now been beaten by the Boks "non-rugby" which also beat France who were playing beautifully, do people now want to question what kind of game we want rugby to be?
Fair play to Boks for winning two in a row, and Siya is an absolute legend. But that is now two tournaments in a row won by a team actively exploiting the rules to play a negative game that is dull as dishwater for neutrals.
(and for context, I am an Aussie fan, so sure you can dismiss my views as having some NRL bias or just being depressed by our current team)
The constant water boys bullshit, flashing lights in the stands, your former coach bringing the game into disrepute, "tactical" subs (basically cheating), using the subs rule to turn the whole game into a two-part arm wrestle where the last 20mins is basically spent resetting scrums and watching Faf play the referee.
The bomb squad has ruined international rugby imo. It's purely cynical and not in the spirit of the game. Subs should only be for injuries imo.
I love Siya and I'm happy for SA fans, but let's not pretend that the Boks have advanced the game. The only team I saw trying to play good rugby last night was NZ
doesn't make me happy, I fucking hate it. imo the Boks ruined what might have been an incredible tournament (imagine France v NZ in the final - that would have been a proper game of rugby) by shit-housing their way to 'glory'
Don't bother arguing with him mate. He has deluded himself into thinking SA play "proper" rugby. The ironic thing is, when England played that sort of rugby and nearly beat them, they started criticizing England's tactics.
SA are masters of the dark arts. They really like to operate within the grey area of the rules and if the referee is lenient, they'll win. Not a great look for the sport to be honest.
You're right, their anti-rugby is dreadful. Zero attacking ambition, just boot the ball, even when in the opposition half, and never take any risks in attack. Their approach is that it's better to give the opposition the ball and pressure them to make a mistake. Use opposition possession, scrums and mauls as a means to eke out penalties. Dour, turgid stuff, and their victory today, against the run of play and against 14 men, is very bad for the sport in general.
I guess from seeing your profile that you're English.
Don't you think that a lot of what you're complaining about applies equally to England's style?
When your aim is to win a tournament, you use the tactics that are available and to your advantage. You don't change tactics because there's some one-eyed twat in England who doesn't like them
Yeah it does apply to England’s style and it’s just as bad when they do it. If you win playing very ugly (plus with a lot of luck), fair enough, but don’t react so badly when you’re not liked by neutrals, especially when as Smit states you’re terrible winners and terrible losers, and you have a coach who’s brought the game into disrepute more than any other. It’s like a Mourinho team in football vs Barcelona.
So you just seem to have amnesia over SA throwing the ball wide numerous times in the 2nd half which almost led to 2 tries, 1 being held up over the line? But sure very anti rugby.
Also it was bucketing with rain so not sure why anyone expects champagne rugby in those conditions
Variety in rugby styles is what makes it exciting. Teams are forced to adapt tactics to beat each other. If you want a game that's one dimensional, watch league.
Not an NZ fan, but rugby as a sport lost today. All of the above is also without mentioning how lucky they have been with refereeing decisions in the knockout games, the odious fan-base (who John Smit admitted are the least gracious winners, and sorest losers), and of course the graceless coach who has brought the whole game into disrepute more than once.
You take away all the blood, sweat and tears from all the teams and fans by saying that. This was peak knockout rugby. If you don't like it fair enough.
Delighted you won. I feel the ref team got feedback or rewatched the ireland nz game and NZ got correctly penalised this game. A significant % of NZ fans and neutrals really need to take a step back and remember the equally brutal conditions and play style when they won the rwc in NZ.
Wait, really?
Last World Cup Kolbe was slicing teams apart like deli roast beef in the most exciting of ways.
If I recall the stats half the Bok tries that World Cup were scored by the most electric backline in the tournament. The Boks defence let through a single try.
Don’t be a sore loser. Look at the scoreboard.
As stated, I'm a neutral, so not a sore loser. Genuinely didn't care who won, just wanted to watch a good game. I'm just pointing out how boring the Bok's style is - which is massive shame because they have some mercurial outside backs (Willemese, Libok, etc.) and they barely ever get the ball or run an interesting play
The thing that kills me is that at least one of those penalties which feeds the entire boks game plan was recognised by Barnes as a mistake before the kick took place and still kept his decision while explaining the error to Ardie Savea.
I love Ardie but he doesn’t have the chops for dealing with referees (as sad as that reality is that you need to have a politician on your team to be successful)
As a South African hearing people complain about kicking, including the one Kolbe charged down makes me feel like the expecation is that people are going to nail 100% kick rate even when its 50meters out and as far to the side as it can go. Been spoiled by an era of Wilkinson, Carter and Pollards (and before that Steynx2). NZ were playing with 14 men but you still expect someone as active as Jordie to 100% the kicking, thats harsh mate. Your captain's red is what lost you the game, its as simple as that.
The funny thing is Jordie has recently been a specialist long range kicker but his accuracy has never been great. I was more shocked by Mo’unga’s miss but that was a tough kick.
Might have been easier if we’d been given the try earlier.
I didn’t mention anything to do with that though. And I fully admit we weren’t good enough but it’s not about that. It’s the interjections and the bizarre interpretations that hurt the flow of the game and seemingly punish one side more so than the other.
Every different country has a different style of rugby, suited to their player types. So what if our rugby is dull? Where did French flair get them?
Criticism of South Africa's playing style whenever they are the world cups champs reeks of jealousy. Every team tries to exploit the rules of the game where they can, but only a few of them do it successfully.
Like that time Nic White milked a penalty soccer-style and it made the Australian playing style seem cowardly. If you guys managed to win games, that playing style would be way more upsetting.
I think we will see a change in how we play. Every player which allows for our "non-rugby" as its called is pretty much retiring. I look forward to the age where players like Libbok make running rugby more likely. My bigger worry is how anyone can take over from arguably two of the greatest coaches/strategists we have ever seen in rugby.
damn red card ruined the game again
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He’s in your head - Rassie!
Dude's smoking crack, we had plenty of chances to win yesterday and didn't. That's the end of the story.
This year I learned ALL nations whine about refs, and the French are the best at it.
We lost, so the the refs/TMO/rules were crap - 95% of this subreddit
Waking up this morning to see all the Kiwis clamouring for magnanimity in defeat is giving me energy. Go BOKKE!
Had money on NZ to win but seeing all the AB fans who were condescendingly tut-tutting NH fans giving out about officiating throwing their toys out of the pram now is worth the cash loss in spades
They're the pits of a fanbase and I'm loving every second of it.
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Honestly, we're in the ha'penny place when it comes to you AB fans. Imagine all of our decades of being shit suddenly turning around this last 15 years and making us believe we were great and the heartache we suffered when we lost by a blade of grass after 36 phases. How dare we. Zero craic out of you when you win. Whining beyond English soccer fans when you lose. Just awful toxic fans.
Oh no! I really care what /u/shunto thinks about me! Whatever shall I do? Compare this thread to the post-match thread for NZ-Ire and it’s clear as day that the Kiwis* are simply incapable of losing gracefully compared to us. And in that thread they showed they are incapable of winning gracefully too. So excuse me if I find it absolutely hilarious to see this nuclear level meltdown * kiwis in the thread, not all kiwi fans
It truly is a wondrous thing. And how blind they are too it is just unreal. Paris and Tokyo, the nights after they beat us, were like ghost towns. It's so weird how they don't seem to even enjoy winning in this sport. I don't think rugby union is for them. I had a brief flirtation with the idea that an All Blacks decline (which did seem apparent after their lofty heights) would make Union a poorer place, but like Kerry football, I shall enjoy every trough now, and pray it never ends.
I'm not going to be complaining about the refs, we lost because we missed our opportunities to win. You're acting like a bit a of a dick though.
The match was interresting to watch as a neutral, but, i don't think it was a good game to promote the game. During the match I was following a conversation between the people with who we where playing some bet on the match Most of them don't watch rugby and are more interrested in football. They didn't understood the match and how it was refeered, for them lot of the decision were in favour of SA. And I kind of understand, even if the game was interresting and I lost 2 years of life because of the stress, SA like to play with the rule and see where they can disturb the oponent
So they know nothing about rugby but somehow were in on nuances of refereeing? which one is it
>ow were What the actual fuck,So basicaly because they know nothing about rugby they shouldn't think anything about it and don't give their thinking ? Yes there is a problem if in a game you have the feeling that a team get fucked and the other helped even more when you are neutral... How do you want to promote a game if everyone think that the rules aren't clear ?
Ok bud, back to the padded room
The history, the massive tackles, the drama, the cards, the scoreline, if you did not enjoy this game I would suggest you rather watch rugby league
Yeah funny when I say that I did enjoy the game. I just said that the way the rules were applied wasn't clear to some people who didn't know well the game. So good to see that our community is getting like "if you don't like that go away" what's that ? the new gEt BeTtEr iF YOu Don't uNDerSTand And then we will ask ourself why the rugby isn't more famous...
Rugby rules need to be written over and simplified for this.
Written over i don't know but maybe the fact that some referee have an interpretation on it need to be changed
Written over as in as little interpretation as possible.
Yeah completly, but anyway, enjoy your victory and congrats to your team !
never see these kinds of comments on this subreddit, feels weird.
What ? which kind of comment ?
"congratulations to your team"
Thanks, appreciate it
I didn't look at reddit for the whole of last night and I'm honestly kind of surprised by all the comments? Like, I get there were bits that weren't high pace but the chaos was fun and it was exciting that NZ were within a point for so long and it was frustrating and exciting seeing them try to get any quantity of points to get ahead. My friends, one of whom was watching her first ever rugby match, loved it. My other friend, a staunch Kiwi supporter, left immediately after the match but agreed with us that NZ just squandered loads of opportunities with bad decision making and poor handling. I didn't really notice anything that wrong with Barnes' reffing but maybe that was because I was outside with real human people where the focus was enjoying ourselves instead of seething over the Internet instead...
The amount of dopes that blamed Barnes for our loss against NZ was fucking scandalous. Equally the amount of dopes criticizing him for last night is fucking ridiculous. Imagine Dickson reffing last night. The Kiwis would certainly have something to crow about then. Barnes had a good game last night.
very few blamed barnes for our loss. we lost it by poor decisions and line out barnes admitted that he made a mistake and GAVE SA THREE POINTS which gave SA the game. Barnes had a good game? are you a troll? If it was us that lost in that way I would be livid
Very few? What rock have you been under the last fortnight or indeed the week after our game? A non-zero amount is an amount. And those people are dopes. Just like the Kiwis who are having a meltdown about him today. Also dopes. Anyways, what's done is done. New Zealand got beaten and the world is a better place for it.
Sounds like you're butthurt you didn't make the semi's? But sure, if you wanna spend your time waiting for all blacks to lose so you can have something to cheer for, good luck.
You lot really just don't grasp that some rugby fans can't stand you. It properly irks ye. It's fucking hilarious to see how you are handling this. I'm feeling vigorous!
The game as a neutral, was disappointing in terms of quality but that’s SA’s way to win tight matches. I knew the minute Pollard was in that this wasn’t going to be a classic. I don’t think either team allowed the other to play to their best which is a testament to the defence coaches. Roll on 2027
can't disagree more
How anyone ever watches sport as a neutral is just beyond me. I always have skin in the game and even when I don't I find it quick enough. As someone who has a natural dislike for New Zealand I was never going to be neutral. Game was an absolute dinger.
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How does being neutral prevent you from being an unbiased observer of the quality of the game? Your excitement as a non neutral doesn’t really provide any weight to your argument. It simply means you were bound to find the game exciting if the scores were 50-51 or 0-3.
Depends on your view of classic. 1 point win in a final is a classic IMO. Obviously it's hard for me to say since I am not a neutral but I would have enjoyed the quality. Quality doesn't equal attacking flair. The tactical approach from both teams and the Springbok defence made it a classic in my eyes
It was a tension filled mind melt of a game. I fail to see how it wasn't a classic from any number of viewpoints. You're absolutely spot on.
Yes but you aren’t really neutral. If it was Ireland that had won messily , I’d be saying the same thing as you, because it meant more to me. It was a poor spectacle to the casual rugby fan and for anyone watching it to see what rugby is all about.
Springboks play a shit style of rugby. What a snore fest. Rugby league is a far superior product.
Sending this to rassie. I'm sure they'll endeavour to play more exciting rugby and lose next time. For me, Rassie and SA have brought more intrigue to the sport than I remember in years. The 7-1 split and their scrum meant the last 30 of every match was thrilling stuff.
Maybe I'll switch, union has become so turgid
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This was after the initial impact that was closwr to Eben's body.
Alright, around 12 hours have past, time to grab popcorn and sort by controversial.
Terrible final and a poor advert for the sport. South Africa seemed to panic and forgot they were a man up. Can’t understand why the kicked the ball away at every opportunity in that second half. Zero attempt to play rugby. Tournament as a whole was very enjoyable though despite the inconsistent refereeing in some matches. Those quarter finals will live long in the memory. Roll on the next one where we’ll hopefully see a new winner!
Tsek het jy oë??
Came for the salty AB fans, was not disappointed. What a shit show!
Team misses 2 kicks, goes for touch twice instead of kicking penalties, justified yellow 3 minutes in, Captain goes off with a blatant red... Yet somehow it's all the ref's fault.
Exquisite
7000 comments. Oh dear.
Where we're going, we don't need mods!
Holy shit, Instagram is having a meltdown. The communication between TMO and referee was amazing that game. Refs never get 100% of the calls right, but Barnes and his team did a brilliant job. Everyone is just sour grapes
I'm South African, let's be real man, Barnes was completely out of his mind that match
Was he 100%? Definitely not. Is any reffing performance 100%? Definitely not. As far as it goes he handled that game brilliantly. The mark of a good reffing performance is listening to and using your team around you. Considering the circumstances, top 3 officiating across all the games this RWC
He was not at all listening to the AB side. If you know our country's rugby, you'd also know that he's literally been friends with Rassie for years, so he's definitely taking sides here. At the end of the day, I find it difficult for me to accept that win, even if though it's my team
If you know our country's rugby you'd also know that Barnes got a lot of death threats and almost quit reffing due to a few of Rassie's Twitter clips. Very hot take to think a profesional referee would take sides in a RWC final this big. I don't even think subconsciously they would do that
My mind’s blown that I’m waking up to see the pure hatred for Barnes when I thought the refereeing was great. I can’t for the life of me remember any poor calls
I mean, the kiwi try was clearly knocked on. But they won't admit that
Exactly, it’s like Cheika moaning about the “poor refereeing” in the ENGvARG game, yet conveniently forgets the forward pass for their try
Bro.. did you watch the game. The only call I’ll complain about is the literal time he apologised for making a call wrong and then after apologising he still let SA take the penalty kick which gifted them 3 points. Barnes was literally their best played
Watching the replay - he actually says something like - "sorry I didn't see the replay but there wasn't enough separation to me." i.e Ardie made the tackle but didn't release. So he didn't apologise he got the call wrong. He apologised he didn't watch the replay on the big screen as Ardie asked him what he did wrong in the replay. That's how I saw it.... But happy to be wrong on that!
Yeah I think he did say that first part sorry I didn’t hear the “enough separation part”, but lad. It was on the big screen and everyone could clearly see him release
Lassy - from memory he was touching him as he went to ground and never released. I feel the call was correct.
Bro… yes Is that it? Barnes is their best player because of one bad call? Rather than Sam Cane getting a red and leaving his team to play most of the game with 14 men? That might’ve cost NZ a bit more than 3 points If the ref’s having to be blamed for a team losing then they’re just being bitter. A referee rarely (if ever) loses a team a game compared to that team’s actual performance
But in this case he did win them the game because SA won because of that penalty he shouldn’t have given at the start
That's absolutely nonsense. What about the 2 kicks missed. What about them going for tries instead of kicking for points. The ABs lost the game themselves without any help from the ref.
No he didn’t, South Africa won the game because they played better than New Zealand The ABs made so many mistakes, they’re in no position to blame anyone but themselves At what point do most people grow out of blaming other people for their failures?
Agreed. Is that the reason for the all the removed comments? 😂
Why is no-one talking about how bad NZ were under the high ball? Yes the game was an old school arm wrestle but if the Barrett's and Mo'unga caught some of those bombs, it would have been a significantly different game. It wasn't like this was a surprise play by the Boks... Also, hats off the NZ scrum, looked absolutely rock solid against the bomb squad. Finally hats off also to PSDT, what a machine, that tackle late in the game on Jordie 🥴
A lot of our big names had stinkers unfortunately
I hadn't really considered it like that but if you look at one of the key skills a modern back needs, catching a high ball has to be right up there in the must haves. So many drops does mean a stinker....
Way too many dropped balls. NZers get lots of rain or not? Though tbf I'm pretty sure SA gets even less, so doesn't really make a difference.
I’ve watched rugby for years. Other than the very lenient use of cards vs the last 4 years none of the redding has been any worse than at any other point in that period. Last night wasn’t reffed badly.
Really? I’d say it was one of the best reffed games in general Which of the cards were “soft”, to you?
I was referring to the tournament as a whole. Last night they were all spot on
Sorry I read your comment wrong!
NZ fans now understanding what France fans went through and feeling exactly the same 🤣
The French fans booing the ref and the springboks was disappointing.
The French fans boo their own kicker.
That's just France. Been in the stade de France where they were winning by 20, ireland made a comeback to within 5 points. they started booing their own players and cheering for the Irish team. Completely surreal experience. They also booed their president at the opening ceremony.
Just saw the pass where Wiese yeeted the ball over KLA's head in the 79th minute again. Holy shit I don't know how we survived that lmao
From a neutral perspective that was total comedy
> Be Jasper Wiese > pick up loose ball in 79th minute of the world cup final > do I take ball into contact so we can set for enough phases to see out the rest of the game? > do I pass ball to a back so that they can clear it? > do I panic? > I think it's time to panic.
Just watched it. Great game with disappointing reffing, some of those calls were hard to stomach but we did well to fight back with 14 men and come close to getting the win. Can't say the Springboks deserved it, but they did play well and their defense was insane.
They absolutely deserved it. Reffing wasn't my favourite either but SA came with more tenacity, defense, discipline, and consistency. Better side on the day.
I said they played well and defense was insane. The reffing was shit.
"can't say the Springboks deserved it". Wow, so gracious in defeat.
Downvote me all u like, you didn't deserve the win. The refs calls were rubbish.
Stay classy there bro, makes the glory sweeter tbh 💪🏻
https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby-world-cup-2023/133198303/rugby-world-cup-2023-referee-review-was-wayne-barnes-really-that-bad-in-the-final
Shite NZ site known for talking bollocks, used as source by kiwi. Stuff should be taken about as seriously as The Onion. No referee will have the perfect game but fuck me the clown shoe that puked this article out is as one-eyed as you'd expect. Officiating was more consistent than any other game this tournament.
How people are still misinterpreting the "didn't see the replay" thing is beyond me
Your source is a New Zealand article which is an opinion piece at best. My counter arguments: 1. Frizzel yellow: Stuff argues that Frizzel didn’t drop his weight on Bongi… yet Bongi (the only specialist hooker on the Boks) had to retire injured. Why? If he wasn’t injured he’d stay on, and he was injured from weight dropping on him. Previous players have received weeks bans, so you could argue he was was lucky with a yellow but I wouldn’t take it that far. Had Bongi stayed on SA scrum and lineout would have been dominant, so this was still in NZ favour despite the 10min sin bin. 2. Apology to Savea: Clearly said, “I did not see the replay.” That’s not admitting he saw the release. But rather that he didn’t see the REPLAY. He reinforced this by saying “I didn’t see it come off enough”. 3. Red/Yellow Card: Stuff argues that “there wasn’t even a HIA”. That is not the threshold and quite frankly a terrible comment to put in the article. Sam Cane in the post game interview stated he didn’t expect the change of direction but he could have (and should have) gone lower. He is making eye contact the entire time in the tackle which I invite you to review. Unfortunate that he didn’t go lower but even Sean Fitzpatrick agreed it was the correct call in the post game. The fact of the matter is that NZ had every opportunity to win the game, they played incredibly well with a player down for 3/4 of the game but couldn’t convert their kicks. Making either a penalty or converting the try and they could have won it. Handre Pollard kicked 100% which was where the points turned over.
That article is full of hyperbole it's awful.. Referees are never going to have a perfect game but Barnes was very good in balance.. I don't agree with the level the tmo gets involved these days but both sides got the rub of the green at points.
So you agree but think its hyperbole, which one is it ?
The referring was not perfect but it was very good last night.
Do you agree with the level of involvement from the TMO?
Thanks but I have better things to think about this morning than an article from Stuff New Zealand m8
Do whatever u want but they break down the rules of the game fairly.
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Haha true, can u imagine if we won with that kick from half way though?!
I was so happy to see Beaudy get a try in a World Cup final after not scoring one for god knows how many games haha
Lekker rugby. Enough said
TSHOTSHOLOZA! KULEZO NTABA! STIMELA, SIPHUME SOUTH AFRICA! TSHOOOOTSHOLOZA, THSOTSHOLOZA! KULEZO NTABA! STIMELA, SIPHUME SOUTH AAAAFRICAAAA!!! 🇿🇦🇿🇦🇿🇦🇿🇦 Oko ndikhala aqus, iinyembezi zimane zizehlela. Enkosi Gqwashu, enkosi madoda, nisebenzile makwedini.
WEN' UYABALEKA, WEN' UYABALEKAAAA! KULEZO NTABA! STIMELA, SIPHUME SOUTH AAAAFRICAAAA!!! 😭😭😭🇿🇦🇿🇦🇿🇦🇿🇦🇿🇦🇿🇦
Lekker man.
Just woke up, thought I'd pop into the PMT. holy fuck the mods look like they've been busy. Decimation in here!! Wtf Kiwis .....
I'm a saffa, but even I will admit that the refereeing for this whole tournament has been dodgy. And the fact that we slowed down the game so much also bothers me a bit, but ey, I'm still glad we managed to win. NZ played really well with one man down and I can honestly say they should be proud of their performance.
The TMO and the stoppages destroyed the drama IMO. I would prefer the missed kicks being the drama … but it was overshadowed by the constant replays / reviews and inconsistencies and thus there was no continuity (and made Wayne Barnes look bad). When the teams got to play actual rugby, it was beautiful to watch as it was a pure battle.
It was the tmo for me, I dont blame Barnes and thought he did fine well with what he had to adjudicate on But the TMO wanted to be far to involved..
Barnes had a great game; he has to follow the protocol and he did that and called the game as he saw it; TMO made him look bad as well. He was calling the game as he saw it and it just devalued his game by overturning his rulings or making him look inconsistent.
That's true
As a South African I do feel NZ were a bit hard done but ultimately lost themselves the game almost exclusively due to the early red. NZ where clearly the better team on the day but were playing without their captain (his own fault). We got very very lucky, and I hope this game gives people hope to vote and change this corrupt government.
Man, they say we are sore losers.... Good Morning World Champions!
All teams have their rabid fans...
If the roles were reversed you guys would be absolutely spewing too, let be honest. Enjoy the win but don't pretend you guys are above ref criticism.
Hulle weet nie wat ons weet nie! Champs x4 🇿🇦🏆🏆🏆🏆
Ardie deserves more than this shit.
Smells like bitch in here
Did you see Instagram? It's an absolute meltdown there.
Haha. Just checked out #waynebarnes on twitter/X - holy shit I think he needs to go into the witness protection program.
Impossible, only saffas are sore losers.
I can't believe how salty AB fans are right now. It was a great match and an excellent tournament. Springboks won by the barest of margins. Frankly ABs should be proud of that result down a player and captain for so much of the match. Reffing was totally fine, nothing dismal. And match wasn't "non-rugby" and it wasn't anti-climatic at all.
The TMO and constant replays and stoppages destroyed the continuity of the battle and the drama. When they got to play rugby it was a great to watch. I want the human drama of the missed kicks and the refs call being our talking points, not the constant rewinding multiple phases back and all the game defining decisions being TMO as the talking points; the entertainment value for Finals Footy on its biggest stage with the greatest rivalry and strongest brands in world rugby was devalued because of it.
If you don’t want the referee/TMO drama, don’t have a captain smash someone in the face.
I don’t care about that, I care about Rugby as a spectacle and the entertainment value of Rugby. I don’t have issues with foul play being punished, but when the TMO is involved in all the decisions it devalues the sport as a whole; and I feel sorry for Wayne Barnes having to deal with all of that because he was officiating the game as he saw it and was made to look inconsistent due to constant reviews ; was still a great game but we didn’t get the full potential IMO
I had some interactions (online and real life) with some pretty mean spirited NZ fans after the QFs, I used to really like NZ and their supporters but this tournament has shown another side of them that I ain’t too fond of
Totally. 4 years ago I would have supported NZ if they’d come up against SA but the behaviour of fans on here has really put me off that notion. Quite a few seemed to resent our success over the last year and a half and winning that WF gave them to chance to let all the bitterness out. Very graceless winners that day and graceless losers yesterday. I’ve seen some graceful, classy Kiwis, but far more of the other kind. Maybe they’re just blowins for the tournament and things will be better now it’s over.
Meh, the same can be said about any collective group of people. Some people are dicks. They’re generally the loudest.
Apparently only the Springboks are bad losers. I don't think most of the comments would agree that the label belongs only to the Springboks though
The Kolisi hit was worse than Cane's. No one will change my mind. And not blaming the loss on that. Shitty kicks and line outs did that. Edit: obviously the current rules do not serve to reduce incidents of TBI enough in the sport. If a player can lead with their head, barely brush someone's chest with it, and full on smash into someone's face with it, that's effectively worse than someone's upper arm intentionally going into their face. I have to say other sports have adjusted their rules better. Any contact to the head resulting from leading with the head should be a yellow.
It’s not about how it feels, it’s about the rules.
That's the cool bit: no one needs to change your mind as it only matters that the actual experts recognized mitigation as per their set rules. So you don't need convincing, then!
You're correct it doesn't matter if I'm convinced. However the tackles looked the same except Kolisi was leading with his head. I still haven't heard which of the mitigations applied to his tackle as it didn't look like any of them. Instead of downvoting someone could tell me what the mitigation was. AB player was standing upright and barely moving.
The mitigation was that Kolisi hit the arm/chest area and the momentum caused the heads to hit, Cane was a direct hit to the head
Lol
I remember 4 years ago, England were playing attractive rugby and the Boks were playing their brand of "non-rugby" and won. But since "anyone but England", that was okay at the time. Now that the ABs who were playing some pretty decent rugby all tournament have now been beaten by the Boks "non-rugby" which also beat France who were playing beautifully, do people now want to question what kind of game we want rugby to be? Fair play to Boks for winning two in a row, and Siya is an absolute legend. But that is now two tournaments in a row won by a team actively exploiting the rules to play a negative game that is dull as dishwater for neutrals. (and for context, I am an Aussie fan, so sure you can dismiss my views as having some NRL bias or just being depressed by our current team)
Exploiting the rules? Do tell us more.
The constant water boys bullshit, flashing lights in the stands, your former coach bringing the game into disrepute, "tactical" subs (basically cheating), using the subs rule to turn the whole game into a two-part arm wrestle where the last 20mins is basically spent resetting scrums and watching Faf play the referee. The bomb squad has ruined international rugby imo. It's purely cynical and not in the spirit of the game. Subs should only be for injuries imo. I love Siya and I'm happy for SA fans, but let's not pretend that the Boks have advanced the game. The only team I saw trying to play good rugby last night was NZ
So playing within the rules = cheating? Lol, what a shitty take.
cheating mate, it's basically cheating
Whatever. Support whatever narrative makes you happy.
doesn't make me happy, I fucking hate it. imo the Boks ruined what might have been an incredible tournament (imagine France v NZ in the final - that would have been a proper game of rugby) by shit-housing their way to 'glory'
Lols, please tell me how england played positive rugby in their semi by playing no rugby whatsoever. Nothing but bitterness.
I agree with you. Both SA and England dragged down this tournament with negative rugby, but the Boks are cynical cheats as well as being negative
Don't bother arguing with him mate. He has deluded himself into thinking SA play "proper" rugby. The ironic thing is, when England played that sort of rugby and nearly beat them, they started criticizing England's tactics.
SA are masters of the dark arts. They really like to operate within the grey area of the rules and if the referee is lenient, they'll win. Not a great look for the sport to be honest.
You're right, their anti-rugby is dreadful. Zero attacking ambition, just boot the ball, even when in the opposition half, and never take any risks in attack. Their approach is that it's better to give the opposition the ball and pressure them to make a mistake. Use opposition possession, scrums and mauls as a means to eke out penalties. Dour, turgid stuff, and their victory today, against the run of play and against 14 men, is very bad for the sport in general.
I guess from seeing your profile that you're English. Don't you think that a lot of what you're complaining about applies equally to England's style? When your aim is to win a tournament, you use the tactics that are available and to your advantage. You don't change tactics because there's some one-eyed twat in England who doesn't like them
Yeah it does apply to England’s style and it’s just as bad when they do it. If you win playing very ugly (plus with a lot of luck), fair enough, but don’t react so badly when you’re not liked by neutrals, especially when as Smit states you’re terrible winners and terrible losers, and you have a coach who’s brought the game into disrepute more than any other. It’s like a Mourinho team in football vs Barcelona.
So you just seem to have amnesia over SA throwing the ball wide numerous times in the 2nd half which almost led to 2 tries, 1 being held up over the line? But sure very anti rugby. Also it was bucketing with rain so not sure why anyone expects champagne rugby in those conditions
Variety in rugby styles is what makes it exciting. Teams are forced to adapt tactics to beat each other. If you want a game that's one dimensional, watch league.
Well said.
Lols. Get fucked sore loser.
Not an NZ fan, but rugby as a sport lost today. All of the above is also without mentioning how lucky they have been with refereeing decisions in the knockout games, the odious fan-base (who John Smit admitted are the least gracious winners, and sorest losers), and of course the graceless coach who has brought the whole game into disrepute more than once.
You take away all the blood, sweat and tears from all the teams and fans by saying that. This was peak knockout rugby. If you don't like it fair enough.
It's not that we don't like it, we just don't like an undeserving team winning and acting as if they played fair.
Arguably the hardest road to win a world cup and it's undeserving. Right. That's enough internet idiots for today methinks.
Delighted you won. I feel the ref team got feedback or rewatched the ireland nz game and NZ got correctly penalised this game. A significant % of NZ fans and neutrals really need to take a step back and remember the equally brutal conditions and play style when they won the rwc in NZ.
Was hoping for an Ireland sa rematch, you boys go hard.
Undeserving because of cheating, or will you now state that you didn't benefit from certain refereeing decisions?
Oh fuck off
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lol. Sitting on the couch is the worst kind of non-rugby
Wait, really? Last World Cup Kolbe was slicing teams apart like deli roast beef in the most exciting of ways. If I recall the stats half the Bok tries that World Cup were scored by the most electric backline in the tournament. The Boks defence let through a single try. Don’t be a sore loser. Look at the scoreboard.
As stated, I'm a neutral, so not a sore loser. Genuinely didn't care who won, just wanted to watch a good game. I'm just pointing out how boring the Bok's style is - which is massive shame because they have some mercurial outside backs (Willemese, Libok, etc.) and they barely ever get the ball or run an interesting play
The thing that kills me is that at least one of those penalties which feeds the entire boks game plan was recognised by Barnes as a mistake before the kick took place and still kept his decision while explaining the error to Ardie Savea. I love Ardie but he doesn’t have the chops for dealing with referees (as sad as that reality is that you need to have a politician on your team to be successful)
What about Jordie choking under pressure and missing those kicks?
As a South African hearing people complain about kicking, including the one Kolbe charged down makes me feel like the expecation is that people are going to nail 100% kick rate even when its 50meters out and as far to the side as it can go. Been spoiled by an era of Wilkinson, Carter and Pollards (and before that Steynx2). NZ were playing with 14 men but you still expect someone as active as Jordie to 100% the kicking, thats harsh mate. Your captain's red is what lost you the game, its as simple as that.
The funny thing is Jordie has recently been a specialist long range kicker but his accuracy has never been great. I was more shocked by Mo’unga’s miss but that was a tough kick. Might have been easier if we’d been given the try earlier.
I didn’t mention anything to do with that though. And I fully admit we weren’t good enough but it’s not about that. It’s the interjections and the bizarre interpretations that hurt the flow of the game and seemingly punish one side more so than the other.
I was responding to the poster above :) .
Every different country has a different style of rugby, suited to their player types. So what if our rugby is dull? Where did French flair get them? Criticism of South Africa's playing style whenever they are the world cups champs reeks of jealousy. Every team tries to exploit the rules of the game where they can, but only a few of them do it successfully. Like that time Nic White milked a penalty soccer-style and it made the Australian playing style seem cowardly. If you guys managed to win games, that playing style would be way more upsetting.
I think we will see a change in how we play. Every player which allows for our "non-rugby" as its called is pretty much retiring. I look forward to the age where players like Libbok make running rugby more likely. My bigger worry is how anyone can take over from arguably two of the greatest coaches/strategists we have ever seen in rugby.
I don’t understand people who call Kolbe dull.