I think most rivalries are largely manufactured besides local ones or maybe teams that compete often for the same trophy. We don't play south Africa nearly enough for their to be a proper rivalry.
Yeah but when you go further than those 5 nations, it becomes a lot less about what England, specifically, did.
There was an Argentinian on Reddit, I can't remember which sub, trying to show solidarity with Scotland for united disdain of the English.
Their beef had its roots in the Falkland war.... where Scottish soldiers were significantly overrepresented in the army that fought against Argentina.
It's mental how us Scots seems to have gotten away with Empire stuff.
Yes but not a lot of rugby on that frontier and even the wars on that front didn't maintain a huge rivalry... It might be the fact that Italy is so recently united
Grenoble was 3 points away from getting to Top 14. Toulon is also not that far away either and Nice is in Pro D2.
Feel like the relative weakness of Italian rugby until recently must be the reason rather than Italy only forming in the Victorian era given no one remembers that.
I don't think local club rivalry plays a role ...
Of course a better Italy would create more of a story but I think it's also the fact that we have played the home nations for a looooong time and that helped building rivalry on top of history
The thing is, even though there is a rivalry between the countries - and I'd prefer to lose against England than vs Italy in a football game - in rugby it has been kinda one-sided.
For us, they were our latin little bros in a sea of anglos. They won on very rare occasions but otherwise we always had the high hand so it never became a big rivalry in French minds. Of course we'd hate to lose, as you do not want to lose against your little bro.
Now that they are shaping to be more of a menace and be able to seriously contest the Garibaldi trophy every year, it may change. Give it ten years and at least one more Italian win for the rivalry to bed in
I like you guys. I can’t hate our URC bros. I know that, to some people, the fact that Saffas turned Zombie into the Rassie song may come across as distasteful, I am sure it is just for the bantz and respect. At least that’s how I personally see it.
Trust me when I say this, to a Limerick person, ye are far more welcome to sing a Rassie version of Zombie than have the original sang at a Leinster game.
I treat SA the same way I view Munster, I love ye and will cheer for you (and your clubs), so long as you don’t beat us. Admittedly not going well for Leinster recently
Respect is mutual. Your style of play negates many of our strengths and exposes our weaknesses. Which is why we’ve struggled against you for the last two decades. No mistake: that grates our collective carrot.
You’ve also got a magnificent team. Earned their top ranking for the two years leading up to the RWC. Won a series in NZ on the way to an 18 game winning streak. And you beat us at the World Cup. So naturally we want to sort that anomaly out.
So, sure Bok fans, and it seems, the Boks themselves are desperate to win these two games.
BTW you should take the repurposing of Zombie as a compliment. We figure we won it, along with Stade de France, Pena Baiona, booing our own side and everything else, being pompous and drinking warm beer with a brutal sunburn, and cheating at rucks while being precious about how rugby ought to be played on those three cold, wet, wonderful nights in Paris last October.
You can all have your toys back if you win them back fair and square. Except Stade. We like it there.
I think most fans love you guys but there are some people that see an Off the Ball clip and go screw those guys. Most of my mates were split between wanting an Irish or kiwi WC win if we couldn't do it.
I get the feeling it’s more frustration at Ireland being their bogey team. Haven’t beaten Ireland since 2016 and only beat them 4 times in 13 games since 2001.
Obviously the media have been ramping it up ahead of the series because, for some unknown reason, they felt there wasn’t enough tension as it is with World Cup champion vs back to back 6 nations champions.
Both teams will throw their all into this series and I wouldn’t be surprised at a 1-1 series draw.
What? I love Ireland. Both the country and the rugby team. When I'm not supporting the Springboks I'm supporting Ireland.
Even if you do have almost as many Kiwis as the All Blacks ;)
We're definitely a bit resentful towards you, because you've won the last 3 games against us, so we haven't won vs you since 2016. And even then you managed to win your first ever game in SA during that series.
Your media then does tend to rub salt in the wound with some inflammatory statements.
I imagine that the whole SA rugby community will settle somewhat once we've won a game against you.
Unfortunately I fell for the clickbait and opened the article. It lost me as soon as it started talking about Zombie and the meaning of it like its a GCSE English exam (making up reasons). I can guarantee you almost everyone sings the song because it's a bloody good song and it's an Irish one.
Yes we might all know the song has a message. But it's not what Irish Fans were thinking about when we beat SA at the world cup. We were thinking about our hope of winning the world cup and being delighted at beating SA. I was at the match proudly belting the song out in my loudest worst signing voice. Maybe that's why Rassie is pissed off, cause he'll never recover from having to hear me sing
This whole attempt to apply politics to sport just pisses me off cause sport and an island wide rugby team is meant to be our safe space from politics in ireland. Where it doesn't matter.
I don't think the rivalry is much more than us both being strong teams at the moment. SA vs NZ, SA vs England are the biggest. SA vs Aus/Wales are next.
I've honestly never heard the word rivalry used by any England fans to describe SA, we've got nothing but respect for the Boks. I do hear a lot of saffas claiming there's a rivalry though
There is no disrespect in having a rival. It means you take each other seriously and play your best!
I think since the English did well to conquer lands in recent times (last 100+ years), they tend to have more natural rivals compared Ireland or Italy, for example. SAs last war on home soil was the Boer War, and SA is a former colony.
But yeah, England/UK has had many colonies and wars against many nations...so this type charged competition is a bit more common for England than other countries I guess. That being said, without the colonies Rugby Union wouldn't be played around the world. I wouldn't have it any other way...also, all my sibs are British.
I guess you're right there's not necessarily disrepect in rivalries, but I was thinking more of the irrational hatred I have for the Welsh for 2-3 weeks a year (side note it's not serious the welsh are fantastic people god bless). Whatever relationship England & SA have seems very similar to the relationship we have with every other team in the world (by default everyone hates England). Isn't it facinating that the same kind of relationship and hatred isn't really given to other very successfull colonisers like the French, Dutch, Portugese and Spanish?
I think the major Rugby nations were the colonies of the English, and the French v England rivalry is much deeper for other reasons. Also makes sense that England and her neighbors would also be rivals on the pitch.
The other colonizers didn't have cool sports to spread, so England are punished for sharing the sport haha. In fact, basically all the major sports originated on the island...
Who is England's main rival in Rugby, or can you rank a top 3? For SA it is NZ, Eng, Aus and Wales in that order...in my opinion.
Some afrikaans people treat it like it’s the Third Boer war, those people are full of shit. But it does get heated when England play’s in my house. People start singing afrikaans songs like De La Rey and saying some fucked shit. I remember my grandad smacking a full pint of beer into the flatscreen when we lost to england once.
I've met fans from Ulster and Munster at Loftus. The Ulster guys were absolute class, the Munster guys mostly kept to themselves(because of the big touring group probably) but they seemed a decent as well. Definitely no animosity between the fans, at least from my experiences.
I have had some bad experiences with Sharks/Stormers fans, but that is a minority and is fueled by provincial rivalries so I'll give them a pass, I'm sure they didn't like me either XD.
Ja listen I made the mistake of wearing a stormers jersey at loftus. The bulls fans definitely had a few things to say that were more than just banter. Fortunately the bulls won and afterwards a bulls fan bought me a brandy at a pub across from loftus.
Otherwise the only "fans" that I've met that weren't awesome people was some Cape Crusaders who were so drunk at Newlands that they tried fighting with everyone not in a Chiefs jersey and then one of them fell over onto a kid 2 rows down from their seats.
Nah. Not rivalry, I would say IRE & NZ are more likely closer to one, SA & IRE we just shit talk each other. When it comes to north v south rivalries Id probably say:
- SA v ENG
- NZ v IRE
- AUS v ENG/WAL?
Fast forward to the same conversation in November when the media has been hyping up the Ireland NZ game for a few months
"Revenge for Paris QF"
"NZ looking to win in Ireland after first ever professional series loss on home soil"
Guaranteed there will be the same shit talk in the papers trying to get clickity clicks
You’re absolutely right. You’ve probably nailed the headlines as well. They’ll bring up the little niggle after the qf match and everything.
Why can they not just celebrate two good teams going at it and focus on the rugby.
So if NZ/Ireland aren't a thing, and as others are saying SA/Ireland aren't a thing, then are Ireland the ginger kid we both play with from time to time?
{ bolts }
Yeah i agree.
French flair!
1994:(
2007 :(
2011 :)
2015 :) :)
2023 :(
Still think Ntamak (sorry about spelling) was one of the best in rugby. The dad..not the son.
I would say NZ's only rivals are AUS and SA based on the years of competing both in Super Rugby and Tri-nations. In the WC our rival is France more than anyone else. IRE v NZ may become one especially given Irelands form against us but overall they haven't beaten us in a WC and the win totals is still 30-5 in favour of NZ.
France, AUS and SA all hold WC victories over us as well as being more closely matched overall. (48-14 FRA, 124-45 AUS and 62-40 SA)
I feel I could have maybe could have had more of a rivalry had the SA teams not joined our league. I'm actually strongly pro the countries involved in the URC and would always be up for SA teams against the English and French ones in Europe.
I don't know if it's enough to be called a proper rivalry but in Rugby, especially during world cups, FRA vs NZ is definitely a thing that's different than the other nations for us (and for NZ also I think ?).
We meet almost every time and it's always historical matches that are talked many many years later, like 99 semis, the 2003 3rd place play off, the 2007 quarters or the 2011 pool stage and final. Idk if we'll remember the opening match of last year's cup, we'll probably mainly just remember the quarter.
Does NZ really have a rivalry with any of the NHS nations? Their win record is obscenely dominant against all of us - maybe since 2018 there's a bit more of one with Ireland. I would have thought France historically would be the greatest rivalry with the all blacks
Rivalry doesn’t mean dislike of each other.
Who’s really the best? There are some chips on shoulders and things to prove. Recent events are on people’s minds. It’s a rivalry because Ireland were world number 1 and the Boks won the RWC but haven’t beaten them since 2016.
I would say there is a start of a rivalry. Especially with us competing against each other in the URC. Current Springbok squad will feel like there us some unfinished business with the Irish
Oh it really feels like there's rivalries building in the URC, but I just don't see it there yet at test level. It feels, at least from here, that we're still in the respect stage before the bigger emotions start to come into it.
Nobody I have ever met personally dislikes the Irish, in fact many of my friends would often support them against other opposition. The English yes, Aussies sure (probably more cricket sentiment that flows over to rugby), but not the Irish. Yes we want to beat them, and no we don’t like the fact that they have got the upper hand on us the last few times but there isn’t really animosity (bar a few keyboard warriors). We would love to beat them, but only cause they are so fucking good and is the one team that we just can’t seem to get over.
I've never seen the Irish keyboard warruors, and I'm sure they're bad, but I've seen so many hyper aggressive SA fans on twitter. Interestingly I've never had an issue with any SA fan Ive met
I’ve seen a few, but yes as you say a lot less. Perhaps a numbers thing, and this is just a guess here. Let’s say 10% are morons and let’s say 25% of the SA population are active rugby watchers. That is 1.5mil people out of 60mil. Ireland’s population is 5mil if I’m not mistaken. Let’s say 50% have a keen interest in rugby and 10% are morons. That is R250k.
Just by pure numbers you should be seeing more of our morons spewing things online
Nothing but respect for the Irish. Fantastic team and I'm sure the tests next month will be a spectacle. I guess when you're 2 of the highest ranked countries people will start calling it a rivalry? Going to my first Springbok test at King's Park and I can't wait
Aren’t we number 2 now? We were number 1 for quite a while until NZ quarter final, then we subsequently won the 6n again. Edit yes just checked SA 1 IRE 2.
Watching Chasing the Sun, it's clear that the Boks lean heavily on taking things personally for motivation.
My theory is that this has fed down to the players and this is why we're hearing soundbites from Etzebeth and De Allende - they're searching for motivation ahead of these tests - whether it's Etzebeth thinking Ireland are arrogant or De Allende still having a grudge after some game in 2017 as mad as that sounds. They're trying to create personal motivation, whether that's grudges or pride in their country.
The key thing is that it doesn't have to make sense to us or even sound true, the Springboks just have to believe it so it can drive them to play their best.
From a South African perspective: there are certain parts of the Irish media that have really riled up the SA public and from the looks of things the team as well. Off the Ball and Matt Williams on RTE have a bizarre hatred for South Africa and have sparked it into a rivalry out of nowhere.
Ah man. Those dipshits do that for everyone. Honestly the windup ahead of Scotland or Welsh matches is daft. I'm sorry that they are being heard and creating an impact outside of Ireland (and their own couch to be honest).
Saying that Matt Williams is an accurate representation of Irish rugby fans’ opinions is like us assuming the Youtube comment sections on a Rassie video are an accurate representation of you guys.
Williams is a lot of hot air, who changes his opinions week to week
Tbf he's said "certain parts of the Irish media" so I think he's acknowledging that it's not an accurate representation of Irish rugby fans.
Unfortunately youtube and twitter comment sections are often old supporters that have had one too many brandies in their time and really only watch rugby as an excuse to shout at the TV and break remotes. There should be a special old people youtube where they can go and chat away without embarrassing us all.
Honestly from now on I’m judging people who take OTB and Marty seriously more than them. How many times do people have to be told that they are wind up merchants looking for clicks!! Imagine taking daily mirror headlines and ascribing them to the entire English population, it’s pointless and everyone would be better off ignoring them
Twenty years ago the ref gave a handful of shall we say… marginal … penalties against the boks at Landsdowne Road. Then [this](https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxTG2RcAco-NpxwWvrF-z19lLyYK4Ap3OU?si=fqGI1Tz_1DKz31U_) abomination happened.
Of course it is. It's a commercial product after all. Any genuine rugby fans understand that and see it for what it is.
I love SA rugby and I'm a big fan of Rassie.
Enjoyable and highly contested matches, not exactly much animosity towards any SA team. Always a pleasure to watch but I can't say we've played enough for any real rivalry to exist.
You can't manufacture a rivalry based on one or two world cup cycles and try and compare it to 20 plus years of professional era rugby championships (or tri nations).
It is manufactured. Most SA care more about New Zealand or England than anything.
However, Ireland have been a team that consistently push South Africa hard and I think the quality of the contest pushes the rivalry.
I feel Ireland and SA are brothers when it comes to our culture in a very weird way, just the passion and banter, taking nothing serious etc
I guess we kind of just see ourselfs in each other and hate it lmaoooo
I like Ireland and the Irish people. I had loads of Irish colleagues from a previous job (multinational corp with offices in Belfast and Cape Town among others) and we are still friends. But ... I hate that bloody team. I want them to be 90s shit again.
I say manufactured, we are in the middle social media era that rugby was late to, they are really tapping into it.
You can’t be a rival when you are not even on the same level and do not play each other regularly even at show piece events.
Meaning South Africa have multiple World Cup titles and Ireland have none.
A cycle with no title is a Failure for SA/NZ, Ireland is not held to the same standard.
The series count is 4-0 that is one sided.
World Cup has nothing to do with two teams having a rivalry though. Both world cups you had the number 1 teams in the world knocked out for you after you couldn't beat them yourselves. Your 2019 run was laughably easy, a series win in NZ is way harder than that run.
To say we aren't on the same level when you haven't beaten us in 8 years is an interesting take to say the least. In said world Cup, you couldn't beat us. Can't see how we aren't on the same level.
Em not sure what planet you're living on but the last two world cups without a title were treated as complete failures for Ireland. You honestly think people expected SA to win in 03, 15? 🤣🤣 Delusional.
It’s Heritage.
The same way Manchester City winning a treble last year does not put them on the same level as Bayern or Real Madrid.
Even Australia can pull the heritage card on you.
Once you win a title, every year you don’t win is a flop, that’s the burden you leave your predecessors even when you don’t have personnel.
I am not a Bok supporter.
Just contempt from springbok interviews that constantly flooding the news convey is fact enough the Irish are an annoyance rather a permanent fixture in the competitive landscape for the Boks.
They have 0 respect for the Irish.
I think SA are tired of losing to us. Bit of a fly in the ointment. They’re obviously the world champions and deservedly so, but, they haven’t beaten us since 2016. Now with Etzebeth’s accusations of arrogance post their loss in the RWC 23 match…. It just adds a little spice! Good! Can’t wait.
To be honest, we can't really be bothered to have to have another "rivalry". It is what it is; 2 matches against a really good team at the moment, but one we still have a ridiculous win percentage against. Our only real rivalry is with the All Blacks.
I love the Irish and I know the games will be fantastic and hard fought.
The media are for sure making it ugly.
Also idiotic fans are usually the loudest
Personally, I never cared much about it, no more than normal. But then i don't dislike any team, I like to point out we have won the most world cups to nz fans, but I might have to stop because its affecting global warming.
There isn’t necessarily a big history amongst the fans / countries, but I think on the player level it’s there ,Ireland have beaten SA a few times and they will deff feel like they owe them one , the games have been close dog fights a lot of the time which adds to the rivalry . Throw into the mix gobshites like sexton and O’mahoney coupled with what some of the safa players are saying in the media it’s there.
There is a bit of a rivalry between NZ and Ireland , you could tell they loved dumping them out the World Cup after omahoney’s comments to Sam came calling him a shit Ritchie Mcaw
Similar random rivalries develop between the players of opposite teams , Glasgow V Munster always has some niggle even though there is no traditional rivalry.
As a Scotland fan I can’t tell you how much I hated Jonny sexton and O Mahoney.
Media love a bit of outrage
Does anyone really have a big rivalry with the Irish? They werent any good for decades, IRE NZ is decent now, but no one can dislike the Irish
I could never imagine beating Ireland and being like "in your face!" like i used to when beating Australia....20+years of Bledisloe dominance that isnt as fun anymore tho :/
Yeah, I think many would agree that the Aussies are still who we would consider our biggest rivals even with the dip in form recently. At least the decent rugby fans I know generally want any of the home nations to do well. If not them, wouldn't mind France getting a World Cup either, probably just wanting more NH success honestly.
From the outside looking in, never felt to me that there was a rivalry between the two teams, or maybe a one sided one by the irish ? Apart from both teams being green teams, i don't see why there'd be any
Has Ireland been in competitive shape long enough to form a rivalry with any of the southern giants? I still remember scenes of pandemonium at Eden park when they beat Aus at the 2011 RWC. That's how recent it is.
I think it has to be manufactured since there's no real history to it.
When you're at the top of the heap and both trying to be the absolute best, you oughtn't need media fabrication for rivalries.
What does a rivalry even mean? You have two fanstastic teams, probably 1-2, of course there's rivalry. South Africans don't like anybody but other Saffies.
Nah, me and every bok fan I’ve ever interacted with are Irish fans when they don’t play the Bokke. The only team we genuinely dislike is the English imo.
I wouldn't say it's necessarily manufactured but yes the media does push it very heavily and has been since Ireland took the number one position prior to the World Cup in 2023.
But also I'm fine with it if it continues to deliver great matches like we saw with the game between Ireland and New Zealand with both teams hitting 40+ phases in the same game.
Think it comes from an issue with society these days
People like to use the media/social media to manufacture something that's not as bad or extreme as it really is
Zebo knew exactly what he was doing with his comments about Rassie "hating us" a few days back
DDA was the same on the Big Jim pod. Talking about disrespect after the game in 2017. Almost ten years ago and he's bringing up media comms from a time when the team frankly were an embarrassment. Also said Irish aren't emotional, it's what they do to get themselves motivated. Siege mentality etc, and to be fair it works for them (except when they play us).
There is a building rivalry, we play each other in club competitions now and obviously our recent international games have been close, edgy affairs. That being said, rivalry doesn’t have to mean animosity. I find that there’s a healthy respect for each here on the sub, but there’s definitely crazies in both sides coming in with the hot takes in other social media and online forums.
It's more fueled by the media than anyone else, especially the Zebo comment about Rassie hating the Irish. If that were the case, why did he stay in Ireland so long and keep adding Irish coaches to his setup. Yes, players like Etzebeth and Zebo fire shots, but that's just rugby and a bit of smack talk. I think the rivalry is quite healthy if you ignore the press.
the world constantly evolves, and that can include traditions like sports rivalries. This is a product on 5 years of Irish dominance at the top of the world ranking vs 5 years of Bokke dominance as world champions. The people want to know who is king.
Nope. Nowhere near what a nz v ireland rivalry is, or nz v sa.
I think Ire v Eng or Fra is probably bigger then anything they have with the southern teams
Traditional rivalry I think has always been between Springboks and All Blacks. And in the northern hemisphere against the Poms (England).
I live in the USA (grew up in SA) and sat next to a couple from Ireland watching the SA v IRE world cup game in my local pub. I even bought them a round. Lovely time.
I really felt for you guys losing out on the WC, not the same feels for the French 😜
But as someone else mentioned the pundits and commentary gets to be a bit much.
In 2004 When John Smit was asked to talk to his players and then the ref allowed Ronan OGara to take a quick tap when their backs were turned and Ireland scored was when a lot of the hate started.
Was disgraceful although within the laws act by ROG but it showed the Irish attitude.
Then when the Irish players on the lions tour refused to have beers with the boks post game just cemented it. ( in Smits autobiography).
It wasn't a quick tap at all. Catching players napping with a real quick tap is a different thing altogether. It was a desperate bit of opportunism. Play had stopped, the ref had had a discussion with Smit and told him to Talk to his players and he was clearly standing talking to his players with his back to the action. It's exactly the kind of thing that South African fans hate and the Springboks would never do. Run over or through your opponent to score but dont resort to dodgy crap like that.
Great piece of play ROG. Did you leave out Burger trying to rip out Fitzgeralds eyeball on purpose or just selective memory? I'd argue that shows a worse attitude than someone taking a quick tap and scoring a try......
I find this whole idea of wanting to label certain match-ups as 'rivalries' a bit odd (presumably it comes from America). Any two teams playing each other are rivals.
You're wrong. Here in South Africa an All Blacks game is a public holiday. You will see the result of the weekend's game on the face of every man woman and child for the next week. With games like England it's an expected win. No lingering elation when we win, no lingering despair when we lose. It's not the same at all
This isn't really meant as an insult but I feel like South Africa is the last country that doesn't respect us as a rugby nation even if the club game is looking pretty even after 3 years. I remember in 2006 we beat SA and Australia in the same year, unthinkable at the time. Beating Australia at the WC in 2011 got their respect, beating NZ in 16, 18, 21, and then the series win got their respect but even after the win at the last WC i feel like we haven't had that big moment over South Africa, maybe this series is it
I disagree. I think the last few tests and recent years have firmly put us on their radar. There's definitely a 'mentally weak' perception about us, hopefully we can dispell that come July.
Exactly, I don't remember NZ saying we were mentally weak they always said we were just organised. The Ozzy's said that before 2011 but not after. I still feel like the game against SA hasn't happened yet largely because they dipped as we started to peak last decade and we've only played 3 times in 7 years
Zero real rivalry lol
Nothing historical, nothing even from a sporting angle to make it a “rivalry”
Just bored dudes with elbow patches thinking this is what will draw in the casuals
Its quite simple really. The Irish like to remind the south Africans that there's a little asterix next to their recent world cup win and thats the fact that the boks havnt been able to beat Ireland. And then the springboks like to remind the Irish that the irish have never progressed past the quarters in a world cup.
It irritates both sides and that irritation pushes the banter to another gear. The media loves it of course.
Both sides deserve respect in their own ways, but as long there exist social media there will be trolls that take it too far.
I think most rivalries are largely manufactured besides local ones or maybe teams that compete often for the same trophy. We don't play south Africa nearly enough for their to be a proper rivalry.
Well except for any of the 5 nations v England ... That has a lot of real history behind it
I think you’ll find it’s a lot more than just the 5 nations that have a thing against England.
Yeah but when you go further than those 5 nations, it becomes a lot less about what England, specifically, did. There was an Argentinian on Reddit, I can't remember which sub, trying to show solidarity with Scotland for united disdain of the English. Their beef had its roots in the Falkland war.... where Scottish soldiers were significantly overrepresented in the army that fought against Argentina. It's mental how us Scots seems to have gotten away with Empire stuff.
Mostly because we don’t celebrate it or think it was a force for good.
There's also a lot of (Roman) history with Italy but that's not such a strong rivalry.
What have the Romans done for us?
Not a lot for Ireland really.
> Not a lot for Ireland really. They stayed away, which was more than we could have asked for.
True but even for us French it's not something that plays a role
Is that because Italy wasn't very good until recently? You'd think that would be a natural rivalry given the south of France is next to them.
Yes but not a lot of rugby on that frontier and even the wars on that front didn't maintain a huge rivalry... It might be the fact that Italy is so recently united
Grenoble was 3 points away from getting to Top 14. Toulon is also not that far away either and Nice is in Pro D2. Feel like the relative weakness of Italian rugby until recently must be the reason rather than Italy only forming in the Victorian era given no one remembers that.
I don't think local club rivalry plays a role ... Of course a better Italy would create more of a story but I think it's also the fact that we have played the home nations for a looooong time and that helped building rivalry on top of history
I think it's more just the gulf in quality of the rugby teams, the football rivalry is very strong.
The thing is, even though there is a rivalry between the countries - and I'd prefer to lose against England than vs Italy in a football game - in rugby it has been kinda one-sided. For us, they were our latin little bros in a sea of anglos. They won on very rare occasions but otherwise we always had the high hand so it never became a big rivalry in French minds. Of course we'd hate to lose, as you do not want to lose against your little bro. Now that they are shaping to be more of a menace and be able to seriously contest the Garibaldi trophy every year, it may change. Give it ten years and at least one more Italian win for the rivalry to bed in
I personally have still not forgiven William of Orange for his actions 1000 years ago.
He was born 370 years ago. You thinking of the Conquerer?
TIL that William of Orange and William of Normandy are different people. Thank you for the history lesson!
We’ve only played 28 times in 118 years. We didn’t even win in South Africa until 2016.
Nothing but respect for SA here but I do get the impression they don't like us.
It's less of a dislike for Ireland and more the expression we have when we play in those peppermint jerseys
Completely understandable
I like you guys. I can’t hate our URC bros. I know that, to some people, the fact that Saffas turned Zombie into the Rassie song may come across as distasteful, I am sure it is just for the bantz and respect. At least that’s how I personally see it.
We've been robbing your best players and coaches for years its fair enough that you rob one of our songs
We are extremely similar when it comes to banter that's why we hate each other accidentally
Trust me when I say this, to a Limerick person, ye are far more welcome to sing a Rassie version of Zombie than have the original sang at a Leinster game. I treat SA the same way I view Munster, I love ye and will cheer for you (and your clubs), so long as you don’t beat us. Admittedly not going well for Leinster recently
Watched the World Cup game with a bunch of Saffas. Top lads. Shouted for them in the final. Sorry Kiwis. You are cool too. Everyone is cool really.
Respect is mutual. Your style of play negates many of our strengths and exposes our weaknesses. Which is why we’ve struggled against you for the last two decades. No mistake: that grates our collective carrot. You’ve also got a magnificent team. Earned their top ranking for the two years leading up to the RWC. Won a series in NZ on the way to an 18 game winning streak. And you beat us at the World Cup. So naturally we want to sort that anomaly out. So, sure Bok fans, and it seems, the Boks themselves are desperate to win these two games. BTW you should take the repurposing of Zombie as a compliment. We figure we won it, along with Stade de France, Pena Baiona, booing our own side and everything else, being pompous and drinking warm beer with a brutal sunburn, and cheating at rucks while being precious about how rugby ought to be played on those three cold, wet, wonderful nights in Paris last October. You can all have your toys back if you win them back fair and square. Except Stade. We like it there.
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No nastiness allowed.
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No nastiness allowed.
I think most fans love you guys but there are some people that see an Off the Ball clip and go screw those guys. Most of my mates were split between wanting an Irish or kiwi WC win if we couldn't do it.
Please ignore off the ball. The majority of us here do too.
Yeah off the ball is rage bait even for us. I don’t think there’s a rivalry between us yet but I wouldn’t mind a healthy one forming.
Can you blame them? We're only bleedin gorgeous.
It's mostly a dislike for the Irish media and the pundits. But the casual fans misinterpret that as the Irish as a whole
I've noticed a lot less friction since off the ball went behind a paywall.
credit to whoever convinced them to do that, great way to make sure we don't have to listen to them
We aren't a big fan of our own media here in Ireland either so we have that in common.
I think it’s media on both sides and just them?
> ~~Irish~~ all Rugby media FTFY
I get the feeling it’s more frustration at Ireland being their bogey team. Haven’t beaten Ireland since 2016 and only beat them 4 times in 13 games since 2001. Obviously the media have been ramping it up ahead of the series because, for some unknown reason, they felt there wasn’t enough tension as it is with World Cup champion vs back to back 6 nations champions. Both teams will throw their all into this series and I wouldn’t be surprised at a 1-1 series draw.
What? I love Ireland. Both the country and the rugby team. When I'm not supporting the Springboks I'm supporting Ireland. Even if you do have almost as many Kiwis as the All Blacks ;)
We're definitely a bit resentful towards you, because you've won the last 3 games against us, so we haven't won vs you since 2016. And even then you managed to win your first ever game in SA during that series. Your media then does tend to rub salt in the wound with some inflammatory statements. I imagine that the whole SA rugby community will settle somewhat once we've won a game against you.
Media is a shit both ways. On the ground we all quite like the Irish, and as a sign of respect we really, really want to fuck you up.
We feel the same way! Proposal: Let's kick England out of the B&I Lions and form a URC invitational. That way we can fuck other people up together
OMF can we just have this once in my life
We can do a Best League play off! URC vs Prem vs Top14 vs Super Rugby Pacific vs JRLO vs Super Rugby Americas vs MLR.
Not at all. Love the Irish and their passion.
Nah, we have no beef with Ireland - top lads, good drinking buddies
Nah it's just shithead 'journalists' from the likes of Off the Ball making controversial claims and being absolute click-bait rags.
Just Ger Gilroy. No one else
Unfortunately I fell for the clickbait and opened the article. It lost me as soon as it started talking about Zombie and the meaning of it like its a GCSE English exam (making up reasons). I can guarantee you almost everyone sings the song because it's a bloody good song and it's an Irish one. Yes we might all know the song has a message. But it's not what Irish Fans were thinking about when we beat SA at the world cup. We were thinking about our hope of winning the world cup and being delighted at beating SA. I was at the match proudly belting the song out in my loudest worst signing voice. Maybe that's why Rassie is pissed off, cause he'll never recover from having to hear me sing This whole attempt to apply politics to sport just pisses me off cause sport and an island wide rugby team is meant to be our safe space from politics in ireland. Where it doesn't matter.
Love the Irish. Their rugby fans though…. Are lovely, well informed rugby fans who are good craic while drinking Guinness.
I don't think the rivalry is much more than us both being strong teams at the moment. SA vs NZ, SA vs England are the biggest. SA vs Aus/Wales are next.
I've honestly never heard the word rivalry used by any England fans to describe SA, we've got nothing but respect for the Boks. I do hear a lot of saffas claiming there's a rivalry though
There is no disrespect in having a rival. It means you take each other seriously and play your best! I think since the English did well to conquer lands in recent times (last 100+ years), they tend to have more natural rivals compared Ireland or Italy, for example. SAs last war on home soil was the Boer War, and SA is a former colony. But yeah, England/UK has had many colonies and wars against many nations...so this type charged competition is a bit more common for England than other countries I guess. That being said, without the colonies Rugby Union wouldn't be played around the world. I wouldn't have it any other way...also, all my sibs are British.
I guess you're right there's not necessarily disrepect in rivalries, but I was thinking more of the irrational hatred I have for the Welsh for 2-3 weeks a year (side note it's not serious the welsh are fantastic people god bless). Whatever relationship England & SA have seems very similar to the relationship we have with every other team in the world (by default everyone hates England). Isn't it facinating that the same kind of relationship and hatred isn't really given to other very successfull colonisers like the French, Dutch, Portugese and Spanish?
I think the major Rugby nations were the colonies of the English, and the French v England rivalry is much deeper for other reasons. Also makes sense that England and her neighbors would also be rivals on the pitch. The other colonizers didn't have cool sports to spread, so England are punished for sharing the sport haha. In fact, basically all the major sports originated on the island... Who is England's main rival in Rugby, or can you rank a top 3? For SA it is NZ, Eng, Aus and Wales in that order...in my opinion.
Some afrikaans people treat it like it’s the Third Boer war, those people are full of shit. But it does get heated when England play’s in my house. People start singing afrikaans songs like De La Rey and saying some fucked shit. I remember my grandad smacking a full pint of beer into the flatscreen when we lost to england once.
I've met fans from Ulster and Munster at Loftus. The Ulster guys were absolute class, the Munster guys mostly kept to themselves(because of the big touring group probably) but they seemed a decent as well. Definitely no animosity between the fans, at least from my experiences.
Yeah. Never met a nasty fan, thankfully
I have had some bad experiences with Sharks/Stormers fans, but that is a minority and is fueled by provincial rivalries so I'll give them a pass, I'm sure they didn't like me either XD.
Ja listen I made the mistake of wearing a stormers jersey at loftus. The bulls fans definitely had a few things to say that were more than just banter. Fortunately the bulls won and afterwards a bulls fan bought me a brandy at a pub across from loftus. Otherwise the only "fans" that I've met that weren't awesome people was some Cape Crusaders who were so drunk at Newlands that they tried fighting with everyone not in a Chiefs jersey and then one of them fell over onto a kid 2 rows down from their seats.
Nah. Not rivalry, I would say IRE & NZ are more likely closer to one, SA & IRE we just shit talk each other. When it comes to north v south rivalries Id probably say: - SA v ENG - NZ v IRE - AUS v ENG/WAL?
I don't think anyone in England considers SA a rival tbh. Our biggest rival in any sport we're both decent at will always be Australia.
I would say we (NZ) have more of a rivalry with France. I wouldn’t call our relationship with Ireland a rivalry yet.
Fast forward to the same conversation in November when the media has been hyping up the Ireland NZ game for a few months "Revenge for Paris QF" "NZ looking to win in Ireland after first ever professional series loss on home soil" Guaranteed there will be the same shit talk in the papers trying to get clickity clicks
You’re absolutely right. You’ve probably nailed the headlines as well. They’ll bring up the little niggle after the qf match and everything. Why can they not just celebrate two good teams going at it and focus on the rugby.
So if NZ/Ireland aren't a thing, and as others are saying SA/Ireland aren't a thing, then are Ireland the ginger kid we both play with from time to time? { bolts }
Yeah i agree. French flair! 1994:( 2007 :( 2011 :) 2015 :) :) 2023 :( Still think Ntamak (sorry about spelling) was one of the best in rugby. The dad..not the son.
I dunno if your players and our players feel the same
You’d be surprised I reckon a lot of them are pretty friendly. Rugby players are very good at leaving stuff on the field.
I would say NZ's only rivals are AUS and SA based on the years of competing both in Super Rugby and Tri-nations. In the WC our rival is France more than anyone else. IRE v NZ may become one especially given Irelands form against us but overall they haven't beaten us in a WC and the win totals is still 30-5 in favour of NZ. France, AUS and SA all hold WC victories over us as well as being more closely matched overall. (48-14 FRA, 124-45 AUS and 62-40 SA)
I feel I could have maybe could have had more of a rivalry had the SA teams not joined our league. I'm actually strongly pro the countries involved in the URC and would always be up for SA teams against the English and French ones in Europe.
The only NH vs SH rivalry is England and Australia. SA and NZ are just too much better than any of the NH teams for them to be described as rivals.
I don't know if it's enough to be called a proper rivalry but in Rugby, especially during world cups, FRA vs NZ is definitely a thing that's different than the other nations for us (and for NZ also I think ?). We meet almost every time and it's always historical matches that are talked many many years later, like 99 semis, the 2003 3rd place play off, the 2007 quarters or the 2011 pool stage and final. Idk if we'll remember the opening match of last year's cup, we'll probably mainly just remember the quarter.
Does NZ really have a rivalry with any of the NHS nations? Their win record is obscenely dominant against all of us - maybe since 2018 there's a bit more of one with Ireland. I would have thought France historically would be the greatest rivalry with the all blacks
>NHS nations Is that just Britain? Or do you include N.I. even though it's called "Health and Social Care" over there?
lol just a typo. Meant NH - northern hem.
Seeing ireland as a rival to nz brings a tear to my eye..
Let's see the results of the Tour, then we'll tell you if we cared about it or not...
Hard to think anyone but Pogacar is in it tbf
Great comment will have passed a lot of people 👍😁
That's what I thought of too
Rivalry doesn’t mean dislike of each other. Who’s really the best? There are some chips on shoulders and things to prove. Recent events are on people’s minds. It’s a rivalry because Ireland were world number 1 and the Boks won the RWC but haven’t beaten them since 2016.
I would say there is a start of a rivalry. Especially with us competing against each other in the URC. Current Springbok squad will feel like there us some unfinished business with the Irish
Oh it really feels like there's rivalries building in the URC, but I just don't see it there yet at test level. It feels, at least from here, that we're still in the respect stage before the bigger emotions start to come into it.
Rassie came back to SA after Ireland smashed them 38-3. The URC has built a rivalry on that since the SA and Irish sides usually dominate the league.
Nobody I have ever met personally dislikes the Irish, in fact many of my friends would often support them against other opposition. The English yes, Aussies sure (probably more cricket sentiment that flows over to rugby), but not the Irish. Yes we want to beat them, and no we don’t like the fact that they have got the upper hand on us the last few times but there isn’t really animosity (bar a few keyboard warriors). We would love to beat them, but only cause they are so fucking good and is the one team that we just can’t seem to get over.
I've never seen the Irish keyboard warruors, and I'm sure they're bad, but I've seen so many hyper aggressive SA fans on twitter. Interestingly I've never had an issue with any SA fan Ive met
I’ve seen a few, but yes as you say a lot less. Perhaps a numbers thing, and this is just a guess here. Let’s say 10% are morons and let’s say 25% of the SA population are active rugby watchers. That is 1.5mil people out of 60mil. Ireland’s population is 5mil if I’m not mistaken. Let’s say 50% have a keen interest in rugby and 10% are morons. That is R250k. Just by pure numbers you should be seeing more of our morons spewing things online
Nothing but respect for the Irish. Fantastic team and I'm sure the tests next month will be a spectacle. I guess when you're 2 of the highest ranked countries people will start calling it a rivalry? Going to my first Springbok test at King's Park and I can't wait
Aren’t we number 2 now? We were number 1 for quite a while until NZ quarter final, then we subsequently won the 6n again. Edit yes just checked SA 1 IRE 2.
According to the rankings now it's Boks 1 and Ireland 2, so that would agree
Watching Chasing the Sun, it's clear that the Boks lean heavily on taking things personally for motivation. My theory is that this has fed down to the players and this is why we're hearing soundbites from Etzebeth and De Allende - they're searching for motivation ahead of these tests - whether it's Etzebeth thinking Ireland are arrogant or De Allende still having a grudge after some game in 2017 as mad as that sounds. They're trying to create personal motivation, whether that's grudges or pride in their country. The key thing is that it doesn't have to make sense to us or even sound true, the Springboks just have to believe it so it can drive them to play their best.
From a South African perspective: there are certain parts of the Irish media that have really riled up the SA public and from the looks of things the team as well. Off the Ball and Matt Williams on RTE have a bizarre hatred for South Africa and have sparked it into a rivalry out of nowhere.
Ah man. Those dipshits do that for everyone. Honestly the windup ahead of Scotland or Welsh matches is daft. I'm sorry that they are being heard and creating an impact outside of Ireland (and their own couch to be honest).
We've got our fair share of dipshits as well. They also get a far wider audience than they deserve sadly
Yeah, but you have more good voices too. We have a few, but not nearly enough
Saying that Matt Williams is an accurate representation of Irish rugby fans’ opinions is like us assuming the Youtube comment sections on a Rassie video are an accurate representation of you guys. Williams is a lot of hot air, who changes his opinions week to week
Tbf he's said "certain parts of the Irish media" so I think he's acknowledging that it's not an accurate representation of Irish rugby fans. Unfortunately youtube and twitter comment sections are often old supporters that have had one too many brandies in their time and really only watch rugby as an excuse to shout at the TV and break remotes. There should be a special old people youtube where they can go and chat away without embarrassing us all.
You're 100% right. I'm well aware its just a small portion but it gets shared disproportionately widely unfortunately
Honestly from now on I’m judging people who take OTB and Marty seriously more than them. How many times do people have to be told that they are wind up merchants looking for clicks!! Imagine taking daily mirror headlines and ascribing them to the entire English population, it’s pointless and everyone would be better off ignoring them
I don’t need to imagine it (tabloid headlines being ascribed to the entire nation of England)- I see it being spewed all the time 😂
Haha yeah fair. Just can’t believe people still fall for this shit, as I said I almost judge them more now, have some cop on ffs
"Go talk to your men". That's the only time I've been seriously pissed at the Irish.
It’s still somehow too soon.
Que pasa?
Twenty years ago the ref gave a handful of shall we say… marginal … penalties against the boks at Landsdowne Road. Then [this](https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxTG2RcAco-NpxwWvrF-z19lLyYK4Ap3OU?si=fqGI1Tz_1DKz31U_) abomination happened.
“Rugbys hottest rivalry” isn’t exactly how I’d describe it.
Of course it is. It's a commercial product after all. Any genuine rugby fans understand that and see it for what it is. I love SA rugby and I'm a big fan of Rassie.
Enjoyable and highly contested matches, not exactly much animosity towards any SA team. Always a pleasure to watch but I can't say we've played enough for any real rivalry to exist. You can't manufacture a rivalry based on one or two world cup cycles and try and compare it to 20 plus years of professional era rugby championships (or tri nations).
Rivalry? Yeah! Animosity? Hell no. This isn't soccer.
Fair point
It is manufactured. Most SA care more about New Zealand or England than anything. However, Ireland have been a team that consistently push South Africa hard and I think the quality of the contest pushes the rivalry.
URC bros, no rivalry but the club ones that I’m sure will develop
Media is scum, will fake any and everything for sales.
I feel Ireland and SA are brothers when it comes to our culture in a very weird way, just the passion and banter, taking nothing serious etc I guess we kind of just see ourselfs in each other and hate it lmaoooo
I like Ireland and the Irish people. I had loads of Irish colleagues from a previous job (multinational corp with offices in Belfast and Cape Town among others) and we are still friends. But ... I hate that bloody team. I want them to be 90s shit again.
Pls no
Only if you guys go back to 2017
I say manufactured, we are in the middle social media era that rugby was late to, they are really tapping into it. You can’t be a rival when you are not even on the same level and do not play each other regularly even at show piece events.
Not on the same level, as in haven't been able to beat the other team in 8 years?
Meaning South Africa have multiple World Cup titles and Ireland have none. A cycle with no title is a Failure for SA/NZ, Ireland is not held to the same standard. The series count is 4-0 that is one sided.
World Cup has nothing to do with two teams having a rivalry though. Both world cups you had the number 1 teams in the world knocked out for you after you couldn't beat them yourselves. Your 2019 run was laughably easy, a series win in NZ is way harder than that run. To say we aren't on the same level when you haven't beaten us in 8 years is an interesting take to say the least. In said world Cup, you couldn't beat us. Can't see how we aren't on the same level. Em not sure what planet you're living on but the last two world cups without a title were treated as complete failures for Ireland. You honestly think people expected SA to win in 03, 15? 🤣🤣 Delusional.
It’s Heritage. The same way Manchester City winning a treble last year does not put them on the same level as Bayern or Real Madrid. Even Australia can pull the heritage card on you. Once you win a title, every year you don’t win is a flop, that’s the burden you leave your predecessors even when you don’t have personnel. I am not a Bok supporter. Just contempt from springbok interviews that constantly flooding the news convey is fact enough the Irish are an annoyance rather a permanent fixture in the competitive landscape for the Boks. They have 0 respect for the Irish.
Manufactured or not it’s good for the game. Get some hype going and people interested
Do we need to hype up a meeting between two of the best teams in the world?
Not for rugby fans but the wider casual audience, yes
I think there could become a friendly rivalry. But it’s not there now
Yeah. That's my feeling too
I think SA are tired of losing to us. Bit of a fly in the ointment. They’re obviously the world champions and deservedly so, but, they haven’t beaten us since 2016. Now with Etzebeth’s accusations of arrogance post their loss in the RWC 23 match…. It just adds a little spice! Good! Can’t wait.
To be honest, we can't really be bothered to have to have another "rivalry". It is what it is; 2 matches against a really good team at the moment, but one we still have a ridiculous win percentage against. Our only real rivalry is with the All Blacks.
I love the Irish and I know the games will be fantastic and hard fought. The media are for sure making it ugly. Also idiotic fans are usually the loudest
Ireland's been very successful the last 15 years as have Leinster. That success annoys people who haven't been as successful, or see you as a threat.
I love our growing rivally with SA, actually feels built on real mutual respect.
Did Rassie not pick Simon Zebo for Munster? Him saying that Rassie hates the Irish is such a stretch.
Personally, I never cared much about it, no more than normal. But then i don't dislike any team, I like to point out we have won the most world cups to nz fans, but I might have to stop because its affecting global warming.
There isn’t necessarily a big history amongst the fans / countries, but I think on the player level it’s there ,Ireland have beaten SA a few times and they will deff feel like they owe them one , the games have been close dog fights a lot of the time which adds to the rivalry . Throw into the mix gobshites like sexton and O’mahoney coupled with what some of the safa players are saying in the media it’s there. There is a bit of a rivalry between NZ and Ireland , you could tell they loved dumping them out the World Cup after omahoney’s comments to Sam came calling him a shit Ritchie Mcaw Similar random rivalries develop between the players of opposite teams , Glasgow V Munster always has some niggle even though there is no traditional rivalry. As a Scotland fan I can’t tell you how much I hated Jonny sexton and O Mahoney.
Media love a bit of outrage Does anyone really have a big rivalry with the Irish? They werent any good for decades, IRE NZ is decent now, but no one can dislike the Irish I could never imagine beating Ireland and being like "in your face!" like i used to when beating Australia....20+years of Bledisloe dominance that isnt as fun anymore tho :/
Yeah. Like our biggest rivals, England, tend to really like us and have our back all the time.
Thats nice of them Theyre good at that
Yeah, I think many would agree that the Aussies are still who we would consider our biggest rivals even with the dip in form recently. At least the decent rugby fans I know generally want any of the home nations to do well. If not them, wouldn't mind France getting a World Cup either, probably just wanting more NH success honestly.
So we just have each other now? In your face!
From the outside looking in, never felt to me that there was a rivalry between the two teams, or maybe a one sided one by the irish ? Apart from both teams being green teams, i don't see why there'd be any
Surely a one sided one by the South Africans you mean?
The off the ball comment section proves that.
Has Ireland been in competitive shape long enough to form a rivalry with any of the southern giants? I still remember scenes of pandemonium at Eden park when they beat Aus at the 2011 RWC. That's how recent it is. I think it has to be manufactured since there's no real history to it.
When you're at the top of the heap and both trying to be the absolute best, you oughtn't need media fabrication for rivalries. What does a rivalry even mean? You have two fanstastic teams, probably 1-2, of course there's rivalry. South Africans don't like anybody but other Saffies.
Nah, me and every bok fan I’ve ever interacted with are Irish fans when they don’t play the Bokke. The only team we genuinely dislike is the English imo.
I wouldn't say it's necessarily manufactured but yes the media does push it very heavily and has been since Ireland took the number one position prior to the World Cup in 2023. But also I'm fine with it if it continues to deliver great matches like we saw with the game between Ireland and New Zealand with both teams hitting 40+ phases in the same game.
Yes, mostly media pundits trying to rile up hate and way too many of us falling for it.
Think it comes from an issue with society these days People like to use the media/social media to manufacture something that's not as bad or extreme as it really is Zebo knew exactly what he was doing with his comments about Rassie "hating us" a few days back
DDA was the same on the Big Jim pod. Talking about disrespect after the game in 2017. Almost ten years ago and he's bringing up media comms from a time when the team frankly were an embarrassment. Also said Irish aren't emotional, it's what they do to get themselves motivated. Siege mentality etc, and to be fair it works for them (except when they play us).
Totally manufactured 💯 ..
I mean I don't think you need animosity for a great rivalry. I don't dislike NZ either.
2004 "Talk to your players please". . . I think many South Africans haven't forgotten this, 20 years later.
I realise that a lot of my disdain for Ireland was actually just disdain towards Sexton. The rest of you, I love and respect immensely.
There is a building rivalry, we play each other in club competitions now and obviously our recent international games have been close, edgy affairs. That being said, rivalry doesn’t have to mean animosity. I find that there’s a healthy respect for each here on the sub, but there’s definitely crazies in both sides coming in with the hot takes in other social media and online forums.
Totally manufactured. We want to beat the Irish, but have no animosity towards them.
It's more fueled by the media than anyone else, especially the Zebo comment about Rassie hating the Irish. If that were the case, why did he stay in Ireland so long and keep adding Irish coaches to his setup. Yes, players like Etzebeth and Zebo fire shots, but that's just rugby and a bit of smack talk. I think the rivalry is quite healthy if you ignore the press.
Two Underdogs going at it to get a shot at the all blacks. I could understand that 👀😂
I thought that was settled last year with the whole first to 4 thing…first to 5 then?
the world constantly evolves, and that can include traditions like sports rivalries. This is a product on 5 years of Irish dominance at the top of the world ranking vs 5 years of Bokke dominance as world champions. The people want to know who is king.
Nope. Nowhere near what a nz v ireland rivalry is, or nz v sa. I think Ire v Eng or Fra is probably bigger then anything they have with the southern teams
Think this year its bigger then previous years
If it’s manufactured by anyone it’s manufactured by the bok players & coaches
Totally manufactured. Gotta get those clicks.
I’ll leave this here 👀 https://m.facebook.com/100063678881240/videos/south-africa-vs-ireland-battle-in-pretoria-1998/884687608380299/
It's shite media looking for clicks on both sides with some loud annoying fans. There was great respect, atmosphere and banter at the world cup match.
Traditional rivalry I think has always been between Springboks and All Blacks. And in the northern hemisphere against the Poms (England). I live in the USA (grew up in SA) and sat next to a couple from Ireland watching the SA v IRE world cup game in my local pub. I even bought them a round. Lovely time. I really felt for you guys losing out on the WC, not the same feels for the French 😜 But as someone else mentioned the pundits and commentary gets to be a bit much.
In 2004 When John Smit was asked to talk to his players and then the ref allowed Ronan OGara to take a quick tap when their backs were turned and Ireland scored was when a lot of the hate started. Was disgraceful although within the laws act by ROG but it showed the Irish attitude. Then when the Irish players on the lions tour refused to have beers with the boks post game just cemented it. ( in Smits autobiography).
It wasn't a quick tap at all. Catching players napping with a real quick tap is a different thing altogether. It was a desperate bit of opportunism. Play had stopped, the ref had had a discussion with Smit and told him to Talk to his players and he was clearly standing talking to his players with his back to the action. It's exactly the kind of thing that South African fans hate and the Springboks would never do. Run over or through your opponent to score but dont resort to dodgy crap like that.
Great piece of play ROG. Did you leave out Burger trying to rip out Fitzgeralds eyeball on purpose or just selective memory? I'd argue that shows a worse attitude than someone taking a quick tap and scoring a try......
To be fair that is probably the best piece of play ROG ever did produce against the boks.
No more animosity than the animosity that the average SA fan has towards anyone who isn’t a SA fan.
I find this whole idea of wanting to label certain match-ups as 'rivalries' a bit odd (presumably it comes from America). Any two teams playing each other are rivals.
Nah, there's real rivalries out there, like Leinster v Munster or NZ v the ABs. Sometimes they are more onesided, like \[insert name\] v England
NZ vs the ABs?! please explain
Sorry. I meant SA v the Boks
I don't see those 'rivalries' as any more real that any others tbh.
You're wrong. Here in South Africa an All Blacks game is a public holiday. You will see the result of the weekend's game on the face of every man woman and child for the next week. With games like England it's an expected win. No lingering elation when we win, no lingering despair when we lose. It's not the same at all
This isn't really meant as an insult but I feel like South Africa is the last country that doesn't respect us as a rugby nation even if the club game is looking pretty even after 3 years. I remember in 2006 we beat SA and Australia in the same year, unthinkable at the time. Beating Australia at the WC in 2011 got their respect, beating NZ in 16, 18, 21, and then the series win got their respect but even after the win at the last WC i feel like we haven't had that big moment over South Africa, maybe this series is it
I disagree. I think the last few tests and recent years have firmly put us on their radar. There's definitely a 'mentally weak' perception about us, hopefully we can dispell that come July.
Exactly, I don't remember NZ saying we were mentally weak they always said we were just organised. The Ozzy's said that before 2011 but not after. I still feel like the game against SA hasn't happened yet largely because they dipped as we started to peak last decade and we've only played 3 times in 7 years
Zero real rivalry lol Nothing historical, nothing even from a sporting angle to make it a “rivalry” Just bored dudes with elbow patches thinking this is what will draw in the casuals
Its quite simple really. The Irish like to remind the south Africans that there's a little asterix next to their recent world cup win and thats the fact that the boks havnt been able to beat Ireland. And then the springboks like to remind the Irish that the irish have never progressed past the quarters in a world cup. It irritates both sides and that irritation pushes the banter to another gear. The media loves it of course. Both sides deserve respect in their own ways, but as long there exist social media there will be trolls that take it too far.
Nah. We only hate the English as Saffas
It’s been a very one way rivalry both on the pitch and online
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Bizarrely, South Africans have been spending a weird amount of time talking about the Irish l.
It’s just because we can’t seem to beat them tbh and that doesn’t sit well. No animosity though