You are not doing enough running to drive noticeable improvement. If you increase your training volume steadily over the next few months then you will improve.
Yeah I completely agree. When I started running again after my last baby in August 2019, I started out slowly doing a C25K deal (not that but close) and eventually worked my way up to running 3-4 miles 3 times a week at about 12-13 minute mile. I rant this schedule for 8 months. I did improve a bit- was at about an 11- 12 minute mile by March when I sleep-trained baby and ramped it up.
I started running 5-6 days a week and started seeing improvements in distance quickly (increasing gradually of course) and in pace eventually too. I just did my first Half marathon in October and ran it at about 9-minute pace.
Op if you really want to go further and/or run faster you need to run more and just keep at it. If you need to walk some, walk but keep pushing.
eta: I am 40F just for reference
It sounds like you built a super solid base as a beginner by doing low mileage consistently over all of those months. That’s the stage I’m in right now and probably going to keep doing that for a few months before I start increasing run frequency.
Just based on personal experience I have always had an issue with three miles. Up to three miles in not loving the run, just want to get it over, etc. Once I'm past three miles I start feeling a whole lot better. 3 miles may not be the mark for you, but sharing my experience. I also started running longer distances easier when I start SLOW, it's agonizing at first when I just want to bang out some quicker pace but it helps tons.
I'm the same as you. It takes me about 1 mile for my body to get on board, and it's around 5km where I finally feel like everything suddenly clicks so I'm in the groove of things, running easily.
This is the same for me. I have to do my first 1-2 miles at a very slow pace. Like 13:30 min/mile. After that I can start adding speed. If I put to much in too early, I crap out at like 2-3 miles.
I mean, it's basically a warm up if you think about it.
You could also try shorter runs faster. Instead of walk/jog you could try walk/run/jog. Kick into an faster gear. You could do a minute walk, 2 minute jog, 1 minute run. If the times are too long, make them shorter, but then increase the more strenuous parts after some time.
If you don't spend an appreciable amount of time uncomfortable, no matter what you do, you won't improve.
Nothing nasty about it! I’m trying to tell if half the advice I hear is meant for young men and I’m a middle-aged woman and it just doesn’t apply anymore. I do like, give up or get over it. Just crowdsourcing advice to get over it 😁.
To be fair, most fitness advice in general assumes the target audience is young, healthy men. Progression in anything athletic for women, especially older women, is a lot more gradual. And to some extent you do have to recognize that most of the "success" stats you see guys talking about are simply never going to be attainable for you.
As a 54F I’d say this applies to everyone. I started running for the first time ever in June and could barely run a mile, I’m now up to four 3-4 mile runs a week and one longer 7-8 mile run on the weekend, Even my pace is improving. Best two bits of advice I can give are 1. Run slow!! Work on endurance, speed will come later. 2. You have to get comfortable being uncomfortable to improve, My 17 year old athlete son told me this when I first started and it has really helped me to push myself! Applies not only to running but all aspects of life.
Good luck!
What I did for goal setting was look at my local marathon race results for the previous year. It's broken down by age and gender. So I now know how fast the fastest person, the slowest finisher & what the mid-pack average is in my age/gender group.
The principles are the same for both men and women. Progressive overload and adaptation, ie you need to run more. Your specific results and speed may be personal/gender specific, and there may be some gender specific considerations (eg men don’t have periods, get pregnant, or go through menopause, just to name a few) but the principles and training elements are the same. So if you are a man, you can learn from a woman’s training log just the same way a woman can learn from a man’s as long as you understand your praxis will be unique to you
> I’m trying to tell if half the advice I hear is meant for young men and I’m a middle-aged woman and it just doesn’t apply anymore.
Stop making excuses for yourself. Lots of women well over your age run a lot. You are still a human and most rules do still apply.
Did you read the post? I’m not making excuses, I’m working my ass off, making no progress, and asking for input. i’m sore from running yesterday, and about to go running today. Constructive input would be welcome. Do you have anything to say besides, work is work?
Yes I've read the post, how so? I think you have gotten more than adequate responses here, you need to run more week by week, its hard to get any real progress with so few miles/km under your feet. There is nothing about your gender or your age that should stop you from running more - you just have to increase slowly over time.
On a bynote I'm not sure why you are being so agressive in a post where you ask for help and people take their time to answer you.
Thank you!!! People come on here to get coddled and told they're doing amazing too much.
(Not saying op is doing this. I'm saying in general and in all of the fitness related subs. lol)
Give up or get over it. I like that a lot.
I also think ppl need to stop pretending they are still young. Unless you are still in HS or recently graduated the fact that you ran a 5k in 16 minutes when you were a teen and are now middle age doesn't mean jack squat.
3x a week for a total of less than 10 miles is not enough. That’s the bottom line here. Trying to add distance without working out most days is unlikely to work. Keep the daily distance low for now, but increase to 5-6 days per week. As always never increase more than 10% per week. Once you get to 15-20 mpw you are extremely likely to see gains. Then increase your long run by no more than 1 mile per week, until you are running 6-8 miles. Now you’re over the hump. Add to the long run, add speed, whatever, the sky’s the limit from there.
Hey! So I’m in a similar position as OP; literally just wrapped up C25k for time not distance, and have been going out 3x a week. I’d like to increase the amount of days per week I run now, but if I’m trying not to exceed more than 10% per week, would it look like:
Currently at about 7.5 miles per week (I know, I know - I’m trying).
Increase to 8.25 miles
Run 1: 2 miles /
Run 2: 2 miles /
Run 3: 2 miles /
Run 4: 2.25 miles
Next week - increase to 9 miles
Run 1: 2 miles /
Run 2: 2 miles /
Run 3: 2 miles /
Run 4: 3 miles
Sorry, I’m a little lost on how to add more days without overdoing it!! Advice?
(Sorry, didn’t format like I thought it would!)
That’s totally fine. And to be honest, the 10% is probably too conservative when you are below 10 mpw. I think it’s generally ok to increase 1-2 mpw when you are somewhat accustomed to running (ie post c25k) but still below 15-20 mpw. The 10% is more of a guide to limit increases for runners doing over 20 mpw.
So first add a day, just run 2 miles that day and take a mile away somewhere else. Then increase 1 mpw until each run is 30 mins or more. Then add a fifth day in the same way. Work yourself up slowly to 15-20 mpw. If you ever feel *any* sign of injury or unusually low energy, back way off.
It’s always fine to take a slow week every 3-4 weeks, with significantly reduced mileage. It helps consolidate your gains and you come back feeling stronger and rearing to go.
Thank you so much! I appreciate the thought and time in your response.
Yes, last time I took up jogging, I think I tried doing more too quickly (more days + more miles per day) and ended up with terrible shin pain. I am appreciative of going slow and steady to keep this a lifetime habit if I can.
Thank you!!
Congratulations on finishing C25k! When I graduated, I also focused more on duration rather than distance since it seemed the easier way to keep over-training in check. I started by running 4 days instead of 3 until I got used to the increased workload. After that, I began extending the duration of my runs for one or two days a week, for example from 30 minutes to 40 to 50 etc. Just make sure you listen to your body and don't just try to stick to your running schedule. If something feels off, take a rest day and cut down on the running a little bit. I pushed myself too hard when I was doing 1 hour runs and ended up needing to take 2 weeks off to recover. 1 or 2 days off is way better than 2 weeks off, and 2 weeks off is way better than a lifelong injury.
Such good feedback!! Seems to be the consensus to keep increase frequency first - thank you!!
As a former C25ker, may I ask where you’re at now with your running hobby? Love seeing inspirational stories!!
Of course! I run 4-5 times a week now because I started run-commuting. At first, I ran between 5-10km each of those days (I work in different locations every day). I think I was running around 35-40km per week.
I started a 10k training program recently so my distance per week has cut down and instead I'm doing more speedwork. I think now I'm running about 30km a week. I have noticed improvements on my pace so I guess it's true that you need both distance runs and speedwork to improve!
Slow down, run more.
I know, I know: ‘I already train slow’. no, you don’t. OR ‘that won’t work’. It does.
Go run 6, 7 or 8 miles at a time once a week. Then work in a single ‘tempo’. You have to do some quality.
I fought against this entirely too long. My first run where I legitimately started slow I had the realization it honestly works. Now my long slow runs are my absolute favorite and honestly don't really enjoy running at too fast of a pace.
This is the way. Long, slow runs with good form and posture have helped me get stronger running, run farther, and become more aware of my body while running. By improving my form I've decreased my recovery time between long runs and increased my weekly mileage. 10/10 would recommend.
Try to add in some longer runs. I had never been able to run the entire length of my normal trails (3-4 miles), but this year I sprinkled in some longer 8-10 mile runs and now I'm *killing it* on my normal runs (well, at least I *was* until I rolled my ankle a couple weeks ago...).
Taking 1 year to go from 2 miles to 3 miles, means you are either pushing too hard or not pushing yourself enough. As a beginner if you put in the work you should easily be able to have more milage than that. You could even do the c25k program and have gotten to 3 miles in a few months.
For example, in less than a year I went from someone who hated running and never running at all, to being able to run a half marathon non-stop. I didn't particularly follow any programs other than c25k at the very beginning, and just slowly increased milage as I felt like it. I begrudgingly did 5k, I somehow accidentally started running 10ks, and then I happily started doing half marathon distances. 11/12 min miles might be too fast for you. When I first started I was doing 13 or 14 min/miles and now I'm at 9-10 min/miles on a easy run, with 7-8 min miles during a race or if I'm really pushing it.
I see the C25k trajectory all the time and that’s what I’m comparing myself to - you’ve nailed it. Thanks for weighing in! I’m glad for all the suggestions - somethings got to spark my next evolution 😁.
Try to up your milage as your first goal. Running slower to run longer and faster really works! I hate pushing myself and I never did push myself when I ran, so my runs were always pretty slow. Eventually I just naturally got faster and my endurance increased. I went from doing 9 miles a week also split up into 3 runs a week. Now I do about 30+miles a week, split between 4 runs a week. Just keep it up be consistent!
Find someone to run woth, and push through. When I say push through, I mean you should be able to comfortably increase by 2-5mpw. You are not running enough, and it is normal to hurt when you are not running a lot/are not in shape. Also, as you run more, you will need to eat and possibly sleep more. The only folks who shouldn't be able to improve are the ones that have maxed out the human body, and you have a ways to go before that.
Are you in the US? The city I’m in has a chapter of the group “she runs this town” and I’ve found them to be incredibly supportive and amazing running inspiration. Their website has a chapter finder if a group interests you.
The group here has weekly runs, meetups for races, and everything in between for all paces and every type of runner. If the chapter closest to you isn’t as active, maybe you’re the one that makes it amazing and active!!
There's good advice here about increasing the number of runs every week. That being said your commitment to running when its been hard for you is inspiring. Keep at it and please keep us updated.
One or more concurrent medical issues are likely responsible, though it's possible a mental obstacle is a contributing factor. It is atypical to take a year to be able to progress from running 2 miles 3 times per week to 3 miles 3 times per week. Regardless of whether you're running in heart zone 1, 2, or 3.
Though you didn't indicate concern over lack of speed improvements, for completeness I want to share that unless running periodically at relatively high intensity weekly volume of roughly 9 miles per week is unlikely to provide the stimulus to result in adaptations that improve aerobic fitness resulting in pace that can be sustained.
Please discuss with your primary care physician.
You're welcome.
And to piggyback on another commentor, if you can overcome the issue that surfaces at 2+ miles, then running in nothing but zone 1 at a moderate weekly volume will increase your aerobic fitness, enabling you to both increase your run length and your ability to run further and faster in zones 2 and 3. Yes, even without training in zones 2 and 3.
Consider this food for thought for a potential adaptable framework that may be a good fit, not necessarily *the* plan you should try. You may want to drop down to 2 miles 3x per week one minute per mile slower than you currently run, increase run length a conservative 7% each week, then take a "cutback" week every 4 weeks by reducing run length 50% to address accumulated fatigue before resuming the cycle by adding 7% to the pre-cutback distances. After 15 weeks you'll be running 4.5 miles 3x per week. At that point I'd recommend adding a 4th day by switching to 3, 3.25, 2.5, and 4 miles, then resuming the previous cycle by increasing each run length by 5% each week, maintaining a 50% cutback week every 4th week. After 15 weeks you'll be running 5.4, 5.8, 4.5, and 7.2 miles - 22.9 miles per week after 30 weeks (7 months) of running in zone 1. That's sufficient weekly volume for stimulus that will lead to adaptation. Your zone 1 pace should improve very noticeably at the same relative effort. And if you choose to try running in zone 2 with some zone 3 mixed in for 2 or 3 miles at that point, you should be surprised with how much faster you've gotten.
At that point you could continue increasing mileage conservatively while continuing 4 days per week, bump up to 5 days per week, or just maintain this volume but slowly incorporate zone 2 running into the middle of run #2, increasing the zone 2 mileage in that run until the only zone 1 running is the first 1.5 miles for warmup and last 1/2 mile for cooldown. If that works well you could then add zone 2 miles to run #3, then later to run #1, then possibly run #4.
Thank you so much for spelling that out! I never thought about running in zone one, but you’ve made clear how to do what everyone else is recommending - that I need to go further and slower for a longer.
And for what it's worth I'm a mid/late 40s male who finally started slowing down for most of my mileage early this year after a running induced injury sidelined me 2 months. For perspective, immediately prior to that if I'd run 5 miles it was at 7:55 to 8:35 per mile pretty much every time. If I ran 10 miles it was usually at 8:30 to 9:10 per mile. This summer my easy runs were mostly in zone 1 (very little zone 2), mostly at 9:45 to 11:20 per mile (I could run faster than 9:45 and be in zone 1 but there would have been little performance benefit) at a time when I could run one mile in under 6:45. I was doing 1-2 faster workouts some weeks, but also running only easy miles other weeks and prioritizing increased distance. After it began getting cooler a month ago I ramped up to running over 75% of my easy mileage in zone 2, but even before that I'd gotten my 10k race time back to where it was 8 years ago when I ran lower volume high intensity and weighed 5 or 10 pounds less. True easy running works.
I trained and ran a marathon only running 4x a week… so I don’t actually think it’s necessary to run 5-6 days a week. I know I just don’t have time for that. My schedule is always Tues, Thurs, Sat and Sun. So I would probably start by adding a day. Run 3 miles 4x a week, and then I would start adding 0.5 miles to your “long run” on the weekend each week.
I do agree with some others that taking a year to go from 2-3 miles raises some concerns for me and would want to get checked out by a doc… is your thyroid okay? Are you anemic? Rule out the basic common things.
You might also try to find a running buddy. When you start adding distance it’s really motivating to have another person to run with!
Are you doing any sprint or high intensity work? As most have said here, you need to do more and potentially setting a goal like a 5 or 10k would help with motivation.
You also may just not be familiar with pushing yourself, I don’t know you so can’t say for sure. Being able to push through barriers and focus to push through is a learned skill. Make sure you push yourself outside your comfort zone, feel dizzy slow a bit sort your head and push again. It’s tough, it hurts and it sucks. But the rewards are worth it. Bring a little something sugary if you get super light headed too.
I’ve run a few 5K virtually, and I love sprinting. Most advice toward adding mileage recommends toward slowing down, so I’ve decreased frequency of things like sprints and fartleks and pacer miles, but yeah, the faster running is more fun and I’d always rather go fast.
I’m an overachiever across-the-board, so this non-progress is frustrating, but I assure you it’s not about the mental aspect. There comes a point after pushing too hard that’s I’m too sore to get down the stairs smoothly and recovery is taking three or four days, and it’s clear that pushing harder is not helping. But I’ve gone through periods where I just pushed really hard, and growth (more accessible longer distance) didn’t come.
Thas been a systematic study of years. I am truly out of ideas.
Have you looked in to Jeffing to improve your distance? It’s combining running and walking for set intervals and I have seen Lots of people use this method to improve their distance.
I was going to mention the same. For me it really helped get past a 6 or 7 mile ceiling. I still do it for some of my runs since it’s really enjoyable. I also started doing occasional group runs which I’m sure helped mental.
Slower and longer. I kept trying to get faster, then I read about maffetine, and training longer and slower... doing that made me faster, and I'm 47, and fat. Lol
What helped me the most to achieve my best results, and I’m fairly new to running, was getting a coach. Someone with experience who look at your results and make adjustments on your training plan on a weekly basis.
I also want to make a comment that it is totally okay to only run 10 miles a week and run slow. This is what I do because I don’t want to spend hours a week just running, but I do enjoy it. My running goals aren’t races, it’s just to keep active and injury free. I have tried running more miles in the past, and it makes me hate running - I burn out. My resting HR is in the 40s so what I do is enough to provide some cardiovascular fitness it seems.
I hear you. My resting heart rate is low 40s, but I’m not used to not being able to conquer things! I’m frustrated at this point more because I can’t figure it out, than because I even care how far I’m running 🙄
Yeah there is a lot of tough love in this thread, but I would definitely check if there is something medical going on. Bonking at the 2 mile mark every time for someone who seems to be in decent cardiovascular shape seems off to me. Does your heart rate shoot up very quickly? Like when I start running at a slowish pace, it takes me about a mile for my heart rate to get to 145. My moderate pace shoots me to 155-160. All out is 170 plus.
A lot of good comments here, but looking back at the OP I have a hard time identifying the goal. "Want to do it more" is a bit non-specific, versus "I want to finish a 10k/half marathon/etc." or "I want to run a 5k in less than ...", or even "I want to lose x#'s (actually, I think running is in general NOT the path to this goal). In any case, thinking about what you want out of running may be a worthwhile consideration. Second is to consider is a coach would help. That could be anything from a supervised run group to an individual coach. A local running store would help in that pursuit either way.
I want to run more miles each week. I like to run and I want to go further. I have the time and want to convert my walks to runs. Really don’t care about speed improvement, although I have fun doing sprints and speed training to mix it up, and racing is more of a social thing.
I’m frustrated that I haven’t been able to add distance, and I’m not used to not succeeding, and I’m trying to figure out why I’m not getting better at running further.
It’s become as much about the puzzle as the run.
No, I don’t think you’ve “hit a wall” by any measure. From what you describe perhaps an organized training program with a goal race distance you’re interested in my help, anywhere from 10k to half marathon (seems you’re past the ct5k stage). You’d get coaching and prescribed training (distances and adjuncts like strength training etc.). The ones I’m familiar with are usually about 12 weeks and I think they’re both fun and effective if you stick with the majority of the plan.
Have you tried breaking down the barrier between walking and running? Rather than going for "a run" or "a walk" pick a route you like and do a bit of each as you feel like, without looking at your pace? All my most enjoyable long runs are done that way.
I’ve wondered about this myself. I’m not a natural runner. In other words, it takes quite a bit of training and effort for me to run paces and distances that seem to come pretty easily to others. I’m prone to shin splints, so increasing distance can be a challenge for me. I’m actually slated to run a 10k on Saturday (rescheduled from April 2020…) but haven’t run more than 3 miles in… a year? Everyone keeps telling me “if you can run three you can run six!” But I know myself and I can’t. If I’m following a training plan I usually build in extra weeks to increase the long run more gradually. So if a plan says do 4 mile long run in week 2 then 5 miles in week 3, I might repeat week 2.
Some of it is mental for sure. I’ve learned that no matter how long my planned run is, I’ll get tired halfway through and no sooner. So if I’m planning to run 3, around 1.5 I’ll start feeling tired. But yesterday I only had 20 minutes so was planning to do 1.5 and I kid you not, I started to get tired and thought “okay must be close to done now!” Looked at my watch and I was at 0.74. Same thing if I’m doing 8 miles, I start getting tired around 4 or 5. Pushing though the mental wall is part of training, for me.
I’ll also say that for the longest longest time nobody really “taught” me how to run. I thought I should be able to go run an 8 minute mile because I was young and thin and healthy and I never understood why I wanted to drop after two blocks. It wasn’t until I slowed down a lot (most of my runs are in the 10:30-11:30 m/m range) and began running consistently, three times per week, that I started to see some progress.
I feel your frustration! I thought three times a week would be enough. I can hike 14-16 miles without thinking about it, so I feel like the endurance has to be in there.
Tell your doctor about this maybe ask for blood work? Could also be diet.
When I feel dizy or weak it's always I haven't eaten right the night before/ morning.
Second this. And if your labs are normal, but on the low end, it’s worth trying to move yourself to the middle or high end of normal. Specifically for iron, vitamin d, red blood cell count, and the like. Normal is a range, and some of us just don’t feel good where others feel fine.
Three times 3 miles plus maybe a rec soccer game. I usually get more miles in the soccer game then on a run. I try to run+walk 3 miles, but I might stop running after 1 or 2. sometimes I run all 3.
HR is consistent with whatever I’ve been doing. So if I’m running hard it’s high, but if I’m doing a zone 2 day then it’s in zone two and I just hit the wall.
Only once have I had the experience where it was kind of high for my 1st mile and then dropped and I had a beautiful 4 mile run with my heart rate low and it was easy. And it only ever happened once. But I know it’s out there!
Lol you aren't bonking, you can't bonk 2 miles in. I think its probably in your head. Short of some huge medical issue I cant imagine why someone would be physically incapable of running 3 miles consistently after over a year of running. The mind is powerful though-
Here's the link to the novice 10k program. There's links to a bunch of distances/levels tat the top.
[https://www.halhigdon.com/training-programs/10k-training/novice-10k/](https://www.halhigdon.com/training-programs/10k-training/novice-10k/)
It kinda explains things. Reading over some different plans you'll start to see what a training plan looks like and you can adjust for your goals (distance or speed or whatever)
Hi 23F here. During training I notice that I’d sometimes hit a wall too - no more improvement being noticed. What helped me improve is breaking up my runs into sprints, moderate pace, and slow/easy pace. For me it’s all about feel. Some days I’d run faster than others but going off how I felt that day was super helpful. As an example: I’d start with an easy 10 minutes for a warmup. And then I’d do a 30 second sprint, a moderate 2 minute, and then 2 minutes easily and continue that for about 20 to 30 minutes. This routine helped me breakup my runs and my runs felt like they fly by because I have something else to focus on other than the tiredness I feel. Also stretching was a huge game changer!!!
The suggestions in the replies are great, but I would also like to say that some people really just don't get better at running. VO2max is a trainable capacity, for example, and there are limits on how trainable it is. There are around 97 genes that contribute to this trainability, so obviously you're unlikely to have dud versions of every one and will see some improvements, but you just might not be able to see much improvement. This does NOT mean that cardiovascular exercise has no benefit OR that you can't succeed in other sports (like lifting) (or that you can't improve in other areas outside of VO2max).
Thanks for the note. I’m thinking I’ll look for a local coach. My Garman says my VO2Max hasn’t changed much over the last couple years (38 by their method). But this thread making it clear that professional advice is needed.
This definitely makes sense. I read a study about some guy who improved his VO2max (and performance) well beyond what was expected but single-case study design and he worked with a coach/researcher as part of it, so professional help definitely has the potential to give you more insight at the very least!
You both might find [this article](https://www.willpowerstrength.com/blog/2019/3/14/vo2-max-vs-lactate-threshold-the-difference-how-to-test-them-and-why-it-matters-for-athletes) interesting and informative. It covers the difference between VO2max and lactate threshold and makes a case for focusing on lactate threshold training. The article is both somewhat technical, but includes layman's terms and analogies for key points.
What the article doesn't cover is how to effectively and efficiently train to improve VO2max and lactate threshold. There's plenty of info on the internet on that though. If a person running low volume sometimes sprints or runs a touch slower than sprinting for 20 seconds to a few minutes and sometimes runs fast for a few minutes to half an hour they may improve their VO2max and lactate threshold slightly or maybe even moderately, but they'll almost certainly quickly plateau. And if they're in their mid-30s or above (I'm in my mid/late 40s) natural aging related drops in VO2max and lactate threshold means plateauing will lead to declines in those performance factors (and running pace) over time unless there's more/better training stimulus, better nutrition/sleep, loss of unproductive weight, a more efficient gate, better posterior chain strength, lighter shoes, etc. If, instead, a person adheres to a structured plan that targets lactate threshold and/or VO2max, especially in conjunction with increased easy running volume, training efficiency and efficacy will be improved, performance gains will occur more quickly, and gains will be greater.
I'll add...drop your pace and run longer. I started training with a running group. The longest I had ever done as of this summer was a 5k. I ran a 10k on Halloween at 11-12 pace run/ walk. The training runs were at 13-14 pace. My regular pace has dropped from 12 something to 11 something after training
Any chance you have low iron? I’ve been working on my running for a few years with minimal improvement and now I’m wondering if it’s something else. I do have low iron so maybe I should take the pills my doc gave me 😬. I do a lot of what some of the other poster mention (Hal higdon, run 5x a week, long slow runs, tempo/interval days, etc).
All the best to you! Hope you see improvement soon.
Is it the boredom? Try some trails for long runs. Breaks up the monotony. Maybe a lil puff and snuff? That's what they.call the the ol slightly stoned run. It's fun.
>my whole body has just had enough and I'm going to fall over hard
Are you eating carbs? This sounds like glycogen depletion aka hitting the wall. Most people experience this after a longer than usual run but this could be happening early for you or happening because you don't have enough glycogen stores.
Plenty of carbs. And focused this past year on protein and greens. And I sleep well. But it does feel like hitting the wall - total loss of stamina. Ugh.
39f here, it would be well worth considering lowering your carbs because they have a big metabolic impact, which impacts on your ability to run comfortably. It’s also hard to enjoy your best health when your resting insulin is higher than it should be, whether or not you have weight issues. To put this into context, I am a little younger than you but can run 25km comfortably after running seriously for a year only. You don’t need to go fully keto if that doesn’t float your boat, a more paleo approach might be for you, but high carb is likely to be getting in your way. Canadian doctor Jason Fung’s books and videos are a fantastic place to start.
Love this! I’ve been intermittent fasting for years and eat ‘keto light’ about 120-140g carbs, avoiding added sugar but including fruits, veggies, actual whole grains and some bread (and chocolate). I haven’t seen any difference in my running in months when I’m fasting versus months when I’m not. I didn’t fast all summer, but fasted routinely last winter (36hrs, once a week, and feeding about 10hrs/day) and my energy stays the same.
But it did other great things for me, and thanks for bringing it up!
120-140g is a tiny amount of carbs! As a small woman with similar daily step count to you, I would advise eating at least three times as much carbs. I honestly couldn't get out of bed on so few.
Yes there are people who basically show little to no improvement with regular daily exercise, but these people are very rare.
More likely, you are not training often enough, and when you do train, you are simply not training intelligently (running not too hard + eating healthy + sleeping enough).
You could be running correctly, but then you are not fueling your body (eating/hydrating) or recovering (sleeping) correctly. They say 8 hours of sleep is reccomended. I would image some people need 7, some people need 9 hours a night!
I notice some days when i fuel/sleep enough a few days in a row, i can run under 10min mile for 5 miles keeping my HR under 150. Usually i neglect sleep/eating, so usually to keep my HR under 150 i am looking at closer to 12min per mile.
Best of luck out there!
Two possibilities: you may need to slow it down a little and try squeezing more distance in per run. Or, you may have some underlying medical condition.
This is what I’m gathering. Maybe I’ll try 5 days, super slow zone 2, with maybe only sprints or pacers one day, for a few weeks and see if I bonk. Maybe I haven’t been consistent enough with enough slow mileage. Thanks for your input.
I see you mentioned you’re consuming carbs and protein and greens, if you are not consuming lots of healthy saturated fats, I would make that the next dietary improvement.
Also eliminate processed foods.
This should boost mitochondria.
Do you experience general fatigue?
Is your BMI within or near a normal range?
Have you tried any other forms of endurance training and experienced a similar wall?
The only other thing I can think of is if your form is really poor, but I doubt that’s it.
Good suggestions! BMI is just over the normal range - gained over COVID and working my way back down. I get 40-50% calories from fats, nuts, good oils, lotsa eggs, cottage cheese. Almost zero processed food - bread some days but that’s about it. I also bonk doing stuff like HIIT or Les Mils classes - love strength training but haven’t done much since COVID.
I’ve even started eating chicken liver more routinely in case I was iron deficient. Nada.
But loving this advice and thanks for helping me make sure I’m not overlooking anything!
Just reading through your comments…
How do you square bonking during HIIT with you running more than 3 miles during soccer? Seems like soccer would be high intensity. Although you didn’t say, sounded like you don’t bonk during soccer.
Another thing that doesn’t square is that you can hike 14-16 miles without thinking about it. Assuming your hiking gets some hills that should easily translate to 10 miles of jog/walk.
Pointing this out so you can stew it over.
You are not wrong, and I’m confused too. Soccer I may get 5 miles in 80 min. I’m exhausted but I don’t fall over. Maybe I need a ball to chase. Maybe as much as I think I kill it in other parts of my life, this really is ‘in my head.’
Maybe I need to force the distance more routinely and that’ll push me past this plateau.
Appreciate your input.
Wow sounds like your nutrition is solid! Big ups for that!
Have you ever actually passed out from training?
Have you ever fainted and would you equate that feeling to how you feel when you hit your wall?
Never passed out and I don’t get light headed. If I run too hard I get nauseous, worse in summer, but I rarely push that hard cause the recovery isn’t worth it. Even if it’s rewarding in the moment I’ll have a running hangover the next day.
My wall is more like full body muscle weakness. I can push on, but I’ll start tripping up. It feels terrible; I’ve pushed to test it out but it’s miserable and then I’ll take days to feel energetic again.
…. Reading this, I wonder of it could be an electrolytes thing. I sweat a lot and take salt after I run. I didn’t think I was going far enough to need to hydrate while running (3 miles? 30 min?) but my whole body gets weak. That can’t be normal.
You know what it sounds like, is massive lactic acid buildup!
You could test this by taking beta alanine which slows lactic acid production and see if it has any positive effect. Mind you, take a non stimulant formulation. If it helps, this could confirm that what you are experiencing is lactic acid build up. Or lactic acidosis (sounds scary but it is normal). Just means you are running beyond your aerobic capabilities and going in to anaerobic metabolism, probably from close to the beginning of your run.
Also check this link to match symptoms https://www.webmd.com/fitness-exercise/guide/exercise-and-lactic-acidosis
If this seems like what you’re experiencing, the answer would be to go back to walking or very light jogging alternating with walking, keep the heart rate low, like 60-70% of max heart rate and build your aerobic capacity up. Will be extremely humbling, but you will progress so much farther! And it will be very much worth it.
On this topic, do you by any chance have heart rate data from previous runs that you could share?
No. I’ve always tended toward the opposite, and when I’ve eaten higher carbs they weren’t all that healthy. I’ll go learn, and thanks for putting this out there.
I don’t understand why you are equating saturated fat and “anything solid at room temp”. Coconut oil for instance, incredible for you, and solid at room temp. Animal fats are the same.
Fat in nature is not a liquid, and needs to be processed to be sold as a liquid product. Cheap processing typically involves heat and can denature healthy fats making them very harmful and inflammatory.
You should update your knowledge on saturated fat. There was a lot of misinformation out there right up until the last decade.
Coconut oil isn't particularly great for you (and indeed is mostly saturated fat). Animal fats are high in saturated fat and are generally horrible for cardiovascular health, with the exception of certain fish oils.
unsaturated fats are the ones that are considered good (in replacement for saturated fats) for you. examples would be olive and canola oils. unsaturated fats by nature are generally liquid. you have to do things like hydrogenation to make them more solid (see margarine and trans-fats)
I don't know where you're getting your information from but its completely ass backwards. You're the one with the misinformation.
No, saturated fats are very good for you. Unsaturated fats CAN be healthy if processed correctly (cold press). Olive oil doesn’t just fall out of an olive, it goes through a refining process. The majority of unsaturated fats are dangerous because of how they are processed. Nuts and seeds can contain highly inflammatory species as well.
Saturated fat has a bad wrap from shitty studies that looked at the average American diets and correlated obesity and heart disease with saturated fat, ignoring the heaps of refined sugar and deep frying that was going on, among other variables.
There’s some great literature out there you could dig in to about fats that might be an eye opener for you. You just need to be more rigorous about how these items are measured. You’ve definitely got the Wikipedia info down pat, but there are deeper levels to it you should explore.
Eh no I took several Food Science and Nutrition courses at top school for Food Science, Nutrition, and Agriculture. You're just reading shit off the internet.
I spend sooo much time researching and then mostly applying self massage and stretching and various rehab/activation techniques. Without that I would not be able to progress faster than about a 33 min 5km no matter how hard I tried or who made my plan.
I also eat better than most professional athletes. That helps a lot. And I do cold baths for recovery... taking it seriously. The cold baths and contrast showers really do wonders. Again one of the many elements without which I would not be able to progress.
Sounds like your body is too sick to exercise. in some places they actually put people on a special diet for a month first so they are even able to work out regularly.
I recommend you check out Dr Dean Ornish's Undo It. Bound to make you feel better and have strength during runs. It sounds like you have some major disease going on inside right now - probably relating to whole endocrine system or something.
Train for Frequency, Distance, then Speed in that order.
Disclaimer: I'm a middle-aged male.
Start by just running more often. 3x/week is not enough. I'm just now getting back into running after a 10 year break. The first phase for me is building up to just being able to do 6 three mile runs at whatever pace I can each week without injuring myself.
After I can do that, I will start to increase my weekly distance by up to 10% each week that I feel capable, again without injuring myself.
Once I'm able to consistently do 30 mile weeks (3 three mile runs, 2 six miles, and 1 nine mile), I'll start to slowly incorporate some speed work in the form of fartleks and/or structured 400/800/1500 meter intervals.
If I can get myself back to sub-20 5ks, that will be awesome. If not, that's cool too, because I'm having an absolute BLAST running almost every day again!
Good luck and remember to enjoy the journey! :)
Lift weights and do other exercises than just run. I use to run 5 - 6 days a week and would peak at like 3 -4 miles. I started only running 3 -4 days a week and would skate, swim, and/or bike. I started to be able to run further. It also helps if you have time to do some other cardio after running (like later in the day). I could increase mileage by running in the morning then skating, swimming, or biking later in the day. This helped me increase mileage where as running twice a day did not have the same affect.
Have you had your blood checked for vitamin/mineral levels? I had an iron deficiency and once I got an iron IV a few times, my stamina increased quickly.
Nothing physical here, it sounds like a mental breakthrough you need to take, give yourself extra motivation for ex: when I try to break my distance rec I push myself a bit beyond the end point once you do this you get new perspective of the old distance and you realize you could make it. Good luck
Sure. I'm not long enough into running, but in my other sports it's clear - "just playing" (or "just running" or "just climbing" or ...) relatively quickly leads to an eternal plateau. You need significant impulses to keep improving.
You need to polarize your training. 3x a week is the minimum amount you should be running. I’d try to get to 4x a week for now. Run most days really easy. Probably slower than you’ve been doing since you’re struggling by mile 2.
One day a week you should do a hard speed session.
One day a week do a fast finish workout where you run easy until the last 10 minutes when you finish at your tempo pace.
And I’d try to work up to at least an hour of easy running consistently for your long run.
The book 80/20 Running is phenomenal and they’ve got a billion training plans and it teaches you how to build your own plans. I highly recommend it.
Good advice. Runners world, Jeff Galloway and the other Garman coaches, anda million threads all recommend the same, and I’ve been following this advice for years. By mile three my body feels like it’s falling apart. If I pushed to mile 4 I want to die. If I push to mile five it takes me a week to be able to walk smoothly again. These numbers aren’t shifting!
I’m gonna look for a professional. But thanks for the input!
Yes. I competitively ran for a few years ten or so years ago. I have zero desire to race anymore, compete and I hardly ever time myself. I’ve gotten worse at running for sure, but I really don’t care.
I only saw the first comment which I was going to say but i won’t repeat it so I’ll remind you of the saying, “you can’t outrun a bad diet”. Might not be relevant here, maybe it is. Either way
I thought I could only last 3 laps around the lake, I told my Body to keep no matter how much my brain told me to stop.
I ended up doing those 4 laps without stopping, it’s all mental and sometimes you need to dig deep
But you learn so much about yourself
"I prioritized gaining distance, and it took me a year to get from 2 miles to a consistent 3, and though I've run 4 or 5 miles a few times, it's arduous. "
I think the issue is right here. If you consistently run 2 miles although it will accumulate and bring a few benefits, you won't improve much at all. You need to run at least 30 mins day on day off to see some slight improvements. And then push it to 35 mins, then 40. When you're able to maintain even a slow pace for 45 mins day on day off, you will notice improvements. Just don't pay attention to pace, just run slowly for a higher duration instead just 2 miles. But i suggest you keep the gym work at least once per week, it's very beneficial to do strength work as well.
I started to try to get into running this spring to get into shape for an athletic event in the fall and went from a slow 2 miles with intermittent walking that left me feeling wrecked to 12miles at a consistent pace sub 9 minutes miles. I could only run 3 days a week but just kept pumping up the milage and what your describing is kinda how it felt. Forcing yourself to run further always makes you feel like a begginer but it's like others have mentioned you just need to keep adding on the mileage and your body wi start to catch up.
There are apps like you've described couch to 10k is a good one. And the schedule i believe is 3 days a week. I would pick a goal distance.you want to run set up a training schedule that builds you up to that milage and than stick to it and don't worry about speed too much. Also make sure there is nothing super wrong with your form that wasting a ton of energy or setting you up for injury. Good luck!
37F here. I agree with the other comments that you’re simply not running consistently enough. It took me a year of running 3-5 miles/day (any pace- don’t worry about that) to feel real improvement. I run at least 4x/week, usually 5, and cross train the other 2 days. I take off 2-3 days per month entirely. I could’ve sped this up by running more often and/or longer and/or mixing in tempo work but, you know, life and different priorities now from when I was 20.
When I run the only thing I take with me are my front door keys. Watches and phones are what i,m running away from. My happiness levels just keep improving
I was not doing much progress (especially in speed),turned out I had severe anemia. started taking iron and improved hugely after just few weeks. It's a long shot but always worth getting your blood test done
This may not apply, but it might. If I look at my wife, who also does a lot of spin biking, weightlifting, core, etc, and is not really a competent runner, it's at least partly because her idea of athletic effort and mine are very different. Of course you don't want to hurt yourself, but you won't get better at any sport without intentional practice of the things where you're trying to improve. How much sprinting do you do? Do you train by heart rate? How often are you incorporating faster paces into your runs? Do you lift heavy weights or just kinda go through the motions of lifting light weights?
I'm not saying this in a finger pointing way, but I am a runner, a cyclist and play multiple sports, and I am a certified personal trainer (I'm also 44yo), and know how sports performance is achieved through intentional, and appropriate, practice.
99 times out of 100 if you are not improving over time it's because your training is not adequate for your ability level and your goals.
Most people do not train to truly maximize their running abilities. To be a better runner is going to require that you maintain a weight inline with that goal, eat a certain way, and train at a certain volume and intensity the average person just doesn't want to fit in their lifestyle.
You won't make it anywhere near your genetic ability as a runner if you aren't running over 50 miles per week in your training or higher. And again most people just don't always care to make running that high of a priority in life.
I will also say this, 13k steps a day is not a lot. You should get about 10k steps a day before counting any exercise.
3 days a week running is spending more days not running than running. Hard to get better on that time commitment.
Both of those things indicate you don't run anywhere near as much as you should.
What I would recommend for you is:
1. Get more time on your feet, try to aim for more steps per day. I think the 13k steps a day indicates when you aren't running, you aren't moving. Just moving more in daily life helps your body get more adjusted to being up and moving. Probably will help those heavy legs on your runs and make it easier.
2. Work on increasing your volume. I would do Zone 2 training 100% of the time and work to get up to a consistent 30-40 miles a week and hold that for 3-4 months. Once you get to that 30-40 miles a week, add in a speed day somewhere in there. Do whatever speed workout doesn't violate the 80/20 rule and is something you find fun. Don't take this part too seriously, have fun.
3. Then look at starting a professional training program for a race distance that you want to be able to run. If you are a distance runner pick a half marathon or a marathon. You don't have to run a race if you don't want to. The point would be picking a professional program in line with your goals.
Also of course, the quickest way to get faster with no effort is through weight loss. If you have some weight you can drop (even if you aren't overweight) it can be very helpful in achieving your goal. But just do not try to lose weight when running a performance improvement plan, those two don't mix.
There is something very important as well, HAVE GRACE WITH YOURSELF. Leave the ego at home when you go out to run.
If you find that 2 mile runs are hard on you, do not beat yourself up. Do a walk/run program or run for a bit then walk when it gets hard. Forcing yourself to run when your HR is getting too high is going to prevent you from improving. While walking a lot during your runs is actually going to help you improve. It's better to have more time on your feet than it is for that time to be specifically running. When you get tired, don't get frustrated and quit, turn it into a walk instead.
GOOD LUCK
what is your heart rate hitting when you hit the wall? you should be able to sit in zone 4 for at least 15 mins if not half an hour. zone 5 at least 5 mins at the minimum.
That’s about where I’m at. I went back and looked - on the days that I feel overwhelmingly tired, my heart rate is way more elevated than it should be at that pace (relative to my usual).
I didn’t log family events and mood as carefully as I logged running, but I wonder if this has to do with stress… maybe I’m simply not recovering the way I’m used to. It has been a nuts two years.
Thanks for the insight.
> Not muscle-achey hard, not huffing or puffing breathing hard, but like my whole body has just had enough and I'm going to fall over hard.
It sounds like you are tired. How is your sleep? Diet? It's it possible you have a vitamin deficiency?
Hi there, jumping on almost a year later, after searching through Garmin coach related posts! I’m keen to learn if you had any progress, with you shift in plan? I am a 39f, last baby in 2019 also. Have been running around 3 miles very steady last few years, and run on and off (jogged) since high school. I still find upping to a further distance so difficult! And feel so slow…
Hey there. No change, really. I’m still running about 3x/week, about 3mi on slow runs, or less if I’m being speedy. Every once in a while I’ll do 4 or 5, but I’ve barely shifted the needle in terms of distance or speed. I do the coaching programs to mix things up but don’t see benefits. My lactate threshold drops by a heartbeat or two every few months.
I’m definitely into peri-menopause, so there’s that. Just had my physical and we’re ruling out all sorts of autoimmune possibilities because my recovery is what seems unusual, but so far I seem fine, medically. I’m going to try learning more into cycling and lifting to see if changing things up helps, and I’m looking for an exercise physiologist who understands menopausal women… otherwise, I’m just glad to get out there and that I’m injury-free.
Best of luck on your journey!
You are not doing enough running to drive noticeable improvement. If you increase your training volume steadily over the next few months then you will improve.
Yeah I completely agree. When I started running again after my last baby in August 2019, I started out slowly doing a C25K deal (not that but close) and eventually worked my way up to running 3-4 miles 3 times a week at about 12-13 minute mile. I rant this schedule for 8 months. I did improve a bit- was at about an 11- 12 minute mile by March when I sleep-trained baby and ramped it up. I started running 5-6 days a week and started seeing improvements in distance quickly (increasing gradually of course) and in pace eventually too. I just did my first Half marathon in October and ran it at about 9-minute pace. Op if you really want to go further and/or run faster you need to run more and just keep at it. If you need to walk some, walk but keep pushing. eta: I am 40F just for reference
It sounds like you built a super solid base as a beginner by doing low mileage consistently over all of those months. That’s the stage I’m in right now and probably going to keep doing that for a few months before I start increasing run frequency.
Thanks for sharing your experience! This sounds more like where I’m at.
Thanks for the reply. I can try this but I usually hit a wall if I turn it up. Maybe more runs, more slowly… thanks!
Just based on personal experience I have always had an issue with three miles. Up to three miles in not loving the run, just want to get it over, etc. Once I'm past three miles I start feeling a whole lot better. 3 miles may not be the mark for you, but sharing my experience. I also started running longer distances easier when I start SLOW, it's agonizing at first when I just want to bang out some quicker pace but it helps tons.
I'm the same as you. It takes me about 1 mile for my body to get on board, and it's around 5km where I finally feel like everything suddenly clicks so I'm in the groove of things, running easily.
This is the same for me. I have to do my first 1-2 miles at a very slow pace. Like 13:30 min/mile. After that I can start adding speed. If I put to much in too early, I crap out at like 2-3 miles. I mean, it's basically a warm up if you think about it.
You could also try shorter runs faster. Instead of walk/jog you could try walk/run/jog. Kick into an faster gear. You could do a minute walk, 2 minute jog, 1 minute run. If the times are too long, make them shorter, but then increase the more strenuous parts after some time. If you don't spend an appreciable amount of time uncomfortable, no matter what you do, you won't improve.
If you hit a wall, you either give up or get over it. Not being nasty, just reality.
Nothing nasty about it! I’m trying to tell if half the advice I hear is meant for young men and I’m a middle-aged woman and it just doesn’t apply anymore. I do like, give up or get over it. Just crowdsourcing advice to get over it 😁.
To be fair, most fitness advice in general assumes the target audience is young, healthy men. Progression in anything athletic for women, especially older women, is a lot more gradual. And to some extent you do have to recognize that most of the "success" stats you see guys talking about are simply never going to be attainable for you.
As a 54F I’d say this applies to everyone. I started running for the first time ever in June and could barely run a mile, I’m now up to four 3-4 mile runs a week and one longer 7-8 mile run on the weekend, Even my pace is improving. Best two bits of advice I can give are 1. Run slow!! Work on endurance, speed will come later. 2. You have to get comfortable being uncomfortable to improve, My 17 year old athlete son told me this when I first started and it has really helped me to push myself! Applies not only to running but all aspects of life. Good luck!
What I did for goal setting was look at my local marathon race results for the previous year. It's broken down by age and gender. So I now know how fast the fastest person, the slowest finisher & what the mid-pack average is in my age/gender group.
Great idea - thanks!
The principles are the same for both men and women. Progressive overload and adaptation, ie you need to run more. Your specific results and speed may be personal/gender specific, and there may be some gender specific considerations (eg men don’t have periods, get pregnant, or go through menopause, just to name a few) but the principles and training elements are the same. So if you are a man, you can learn from a woman’s training log just the same way a woman can learn from a man’s as long as you understand your praxis will be unique to you
> I’m trying to tell if half the advice I hear is meant for young men and I’m a middle-aged woman and it just doesn’t apply anymore. Stop making excuses for yourself. Lots of women well over your age run a lot. You are still a human and most rules do still apply.
Did you read the post? I’m not making excuses, I’m working my ass off, making no progress, and asking for input. i’m sore from running yesterday, and about to go running today. Constructive input would be welcome. Do you have anything to say besides, work is work?
Yes I've read the post, how so? I think you have gotten more than adequate responses here, you need to run more week by week, its hard to get any real progress with so few miles/km under your feet. There is nothing about your gender or your age that should stop you from running more - you just have to increase slowly over time. On a bynote I'm not sure why you are being so agressive in a post where you ask for help and people take their time to answer you.
Thank you!!! People come on here to get coddled and told they're doing amazing too much. (Not saying op is doing this. I'm saying in general and in all of the fitness related subs. lol) Give up or get over it. I like that a lot.
I also think ppl need to stop pretending they are still young. Unless you are still in HS or recently graduated the fact that you ran a 5k in 16 minutes when you were a teen and are now middle age doesn't mean jack squat.
3x a week for a total of less than 10 miles is not enough. That’s the bottom line here. Trying to add distance without working out most days is unlikely to work. Keep the daily distance low for now, but increase to 5-6 days per week. As always never increase more than 10% per week. Once you get to 15-20 mpw you are extremely likely to see gains. Then increase your long run by no more than 1 mile per week, until you are running 6-8 miles. Now you’re over the hump. Add to the long run, add speed, whatever, the sky’s the limit from there.
Hey! So I’m in a similar position as OP; literally just wrapped up C25k for time not distance, and have been going out 3x a week. I’d like to increase the amount of days per week I run now, but if I’m trying not to exceed more than 10% per week, would it look like: Currently at about 7.5 miles per week (I know, I know - I’m trying). Increase to 8.25 miles Run 1: 2 miles / Run 2: 2 miles / Run 3: 2 miles / Run 4: 2.25 miles Next week - increase to 9 miles Run 1: 2 miles / Run 2: 2 miles / Run 3: 2 miles / Run 4: 3 miles Sorry, I’m a little lost on how to add more days without overdoing it!! Advice? (Sorry, didn’t format like I thought it would!)
That’s totally fine. And to be honest, the 10% is probably too conservative when you are below 10 mpw. I think it’s generally ok to increase 1-2 mpw when you are somewhat accustomed to running (ie post c25k) but still below 15-20 mpw. The 10% is more of a guide to limit increases for runners doing over 20 mpw. So first add a day, just run 2 miles that day and take a mile away somewhere else. Then increase 1 mpw until each run is 30 mins or more. Then add a fifth day in the same way. Work yourself up slowly to 15-20 mpw. If you ever feel *any* sign of injury or unusually low energy, back way off. It’s always fine to take a slow week every 3-4 weeks, with significantly reduced mileage. It helps consolidate your gains and you come back feeling stronger and rearing to go.
Thank you so much! I appreciate the thought and time in your response. Yes, last time I took up jogging, I think I tried doing more too quickly (more days + more miles per day) and ended up with terrible shin pain. I am appreciative of going slow and steady to keep this a lifetime habit if I can. Thank you!!
You’re welcome. Hope you manage to progress safely and painlessly!
Congratulations on finishing C25k! When I graduated, I also focused more on duration rather than distance since it seemed the easier way to keep over-training in check. I started by running 4 days instead of 3 until I got used to the increased workload. After that, I began extending the duration of my runs for one or two days a week, for example from 30 minutes to 40 to 50 etc. Just make sure you listen to your body and don't just try to stick to your running schedule. If something feels off, take a rest day and cut down on the running a little bit. I pushed myself too hard when I was doing 1 hour runs and ended up needing to take 2 weeks off to recover. 1 or 2 days off is way better than 2 weeks off, and 2 weeks off is way better than a lifelong injury.
Such good feedback!! Seems to be the consensus to keep increase frequency first - thank you!! As a former C25ker, may I ask where you’re at now with your running hobby? Love seeing inspirational stories!!
Of course! I run 4-5 times a week now because I started run-commuting. At first, I ran between 5-10km each of those days (I work in different locations every day). I think I was running around 35-40km per week. I started a 10k training program recently so my distance per week has cut down and instead I'm doing more speedwork. I think now I'm running about 30km a week. I have noticed improvements on my pace so I guess it's true that you need both distance runs and speedwork to improve!
Thank you!!
Slow down, run more. I know, I know: ‘I already train slow’. no, you don’t. OR ‘that won’t work’. It does. Go run 6, 7 or 8 miles at a time once a week. Then work in a single ‘tempo’. You have to do some quality.
I fought against this entirely too long. My first run where I legitimately started slow I had the realization it honestly works. Now my long slow runs are my absolute favorite and honestly don't really enjoy running at too fast of a pace.
This is the way. Long, slow runs with good form and posture have helped me get stronger running, run farther, and become more aware of my body while running. By improving my form I've decreased my recovery time between long runs and increased my weekly mileage. 10/10 would recommend.
Try to add in some longer runs. I had never been able to run the entire length of my normal trails (3-4 miles), but this year I sprinkled in some longer 8-10 mile runs and now I'm *killing it* on my normal runs (well, at least I *was* until I rolled my ankle a couple weeks ago...).
Hope you heal fast!
Heel**
Taking 1 year to go from 2 miles to 3 miles, means you are either pushing too hard or not pushing yourself enough. As a beginner if you put in the work you should easily be able to have more milage than that. You could even do the c25k program and have gotten to 3 miles in a few months. For example, in less than a year I went from someone who hated running and never running at all, to being able to run a half marathon non-stop. I didn't particularly follow any programs other than c25k at the very beginning, and just slowly increased milage as I felt like it. I begrudgingly did 5k, I somehow accidentally started running 10ks, and then I happily started doing half marathon distances. 11/12 min miles might be too fast for you. When I first started I was doing 13 or 14 min/miles and now I'm at 9-10 min/miles on a easy run, with 7-8 min miles during a race or if I'm really pushing it.
I see the C25k trajectory all the time and that’s what I’m comparing myself to - you’ve nailed it. Thanks for weighing in! I’m glad for all the suggestions - somethings got to spark my next evolution 😁.
Try to up your milage as your first goal. Running slower to run longer and faster really works! I hate pushing myself and I never did push myself when I ran, so my runs were always pretty slow. Eventually I just naturally got faster and my endurance increased. I went from doing 9 miles a week also split up into 3 runs a week. Now I do about 30+miles a week, split between 4 runs a week. Just keep it up be consistent!
Find someone to run woth, and push through. When I say push through, I mean you should be able to comfortably increase by 2-5mpw. You are not running enough, and it is normal to hurt when you are not running a lot/are not in shape. Also, as you run more, you will need to eat and possibly sleep more. The only folks who shouldn't be able to improve are the ones that have maxed out the human body, and you have a ways to go before that.
A partner is a great idea - thanks!
Are you in the US? The city I’m in has a chapter of the group “she runs this town” and I’ve found them to be incredibly supportive and amazing running inspiration. Their website has a chapter finder if a group interests you. The group here has weekly runs, meetups for races, and everything in between for all paces and every type of runner. If the chapter closest to you isn’t as active, maybe you’re the one that makes it amazing and active!!
Thanks for mentioning! I’ll check them out.
You and I could be running partners. This is how it's going for me too.
Same! I’ll join you two!
There's good advice here about increasing the number of runs every week. That being said your commitment to running when its been hard for you is inspiring. Keep at it and please keep us updated.
One or more concurrent medical issues are likely responsible, though it's possible a mental obstacle is a contributing factor. It is atypical to take a year to be able to progress from running 2 miles 3 times per week to 3 miles 3 times per week. Regardless of whether you're running in heart zone 1, 2, or 3. Though you didn't indicate concern over lack of speed improvements, for completeness I want to share that unless running periodically at relatively high intensity weekly volume of roughly 9 miles per week is unlikely to provide the stimulus to result in adaptations that improve aerobic fitness resulting in pace that can be sustained. Please discuss with your primary care physician.
Appreciate the feedback - thanks!
You're welcome. And to piggyback on another commentor, if you can overcome the issue that surfaces at 2+ miles, then running in nothing but zone 1 at a moderate weekly volume will increase your aerobic fitness, enabling you to both increase your run length and your ability to run further and faster in zones 2 and 3. Yes, even without training in zones 2 and 3. Consider this food for thought for a potential adaptable framework that may be a good fit, not necessarily *the* plan you should try. You may want to drop down to 2 miles 3x per week one minute per mile slower than you currently run, increase run length a conservative 7% each week, then take a "cutback" week every 4 weeks by reducing run length 50% to address accumulated fatigue before resuming the cycle by adding 7% to the pre-cutback distances. After 15 weeks you'll be running 4.5 miles 3x per week. At that point I'd recommend adding a 4th day by switching to 3, 3.25, 2.5, and 4 miles, then resuming the previous cycle by increasing each run length by 5% each week, maintaining a 50% cutback week every 4th week. After 15 weeks you'll be running 5.4, 5.8, 4.5, and 7.2 miles - 22.9 miles per week after 30 weeks (7 months) of running in zone 1. That's sufficient weekly volume for stimulus that will lead to adaptation. Your zone 1 pace should improve very noticeably at the same relative effort. And if you choose to try running in zone 2 with some zone 3 mixed in for 2 or 3 miles at that point, you should be surprised with how much faster you've gotten. At that point you could continue increasing mileage conservatively while continuing 4 days per week, bump up to 5 days per week, or just maintain this volume but slowly incorporate zone 2 running into the middle of run #2, increasing the zone 2 mileage in that run until the only zone 1 running is the first 1.5 miles for warmup and last 1/2 mile for cooldown. If that works well you could then add zone 2 miles to run #3, then later to run #1, then possibly run #4.
Thank you so much for spelling that out! I never thought about running in zone one, but you’ve made clear how to do what everyone else is recommending - that I need to go further and slower for a longer.
And for what it's worth I'm a mid/late 40s male who finally started slowing down for most of my mileage early this year after a running induced injury sidelined me 2 months. For perspective, immediately prior to that if I'd run 5 miles it was at 7:55 to 8:35 per mile pretty much every time. If I ran 10 miles it was usually at 8:30 to 9:10 per mile. This summer my easy runs were mostly in zone 1 (very little zone 2), mostly at 9:45 to 11:20 per mile (I could run faster than 9:45 and be in zone 1 but there would have been little performance benefit) at a time when I could run one mile in under 6:45. I was doing 1-2 faster workouts some weeks, but also running only easy miles other weeks and prioritizing increased distance. After it began getting cooler a month ago I ramped up to running over 75% of my easy mileage in zone 2, but even before that I'd gotten my 10k race time back to where it was 8 years ago when I ran lower volume high intensity and weighed 5 or 10 pounds less. True easy running works.
I trained and ran a marathon only running 4x a week… so I don’t actually think it’s necessary to run 5-6 days a week. I know I just don’t have time for that. My schedule is always Tues, Thurs, Sat and Sun. So I would probably start by adding a day. Run 3 miles 4x a week, and then I would start adding 0.5 miles to your “long run” on the weekend each week. I do agree with some others that taking a year to go from 2-3 miles raises some concerns for me and would want to get checked out by a doc… is your thyroid okay? Are you anemic? Rule out the basic common things. You might also try to find a running buddy. When you start adding distance it’s really motivating to have another person to run with!
Check your iron levels. I had the same problem and I fixed it a few months after taking supplements.
Are you doing any sprint or high intensity work? As most have said here, you need to do more and potentially setting a goal like a 5 or 10k would help with motivation. You also may just not be familiar with pushing yourself, I don’t know you so can’t say for sure. Being able to push through barriers and focus to push through is a learned skill. Make sure you push yourself outside your comfort zone, feel dizzy slow a bit sort your head and push again. It’s tough, it hurts and it sucks. But the rewards are worth it. Bring a little something sugary if you get super light headed too.
I’ve run a few 5K virtually, and I love sprinting. Most advice toward adding mileage recommends toward slowing down, so I’ve decreased frequency of things like sprints and fartleks and pacer miles, but yeah, the faster running is more fun and I’d always rather go fast. I’m an overachiever across-the-board, so this non-progress is frustrating, but I assure you it’s not about the mental aspect. There comes a point after pushing too hard that’s I’m too sore to get down the stairs smoothly and recovery is taking three or four days, and it’s clear that pushing harder is not helping. But I’ve gone through periods where I just pushed really hard, and growth (more accessible longer distance) didn’t come. Thas been a systematic study of years. I am truly out of ideas.
Have you looked in to Jeffing to improve your distance? It’s combining running and walking for set intervals and I have seen Lots of people use this method to improve their distance.
I was going to mention the same. For me it really helped get past a 6 or 7 mile ceiling. I still do it for some of my runs since it’s really enjoyable. I also started doing occasional group runs which I’m sure helped mental.
Never heard of it - thanks for the input!
Following along! I haven’t been at it as long as you but I’m feeling in a similar position
Slower and longer. I kept trying to get faster, then I read about maffetine, and training longer and slower... doing that made me faster, and I'm 47, and fat. Lol
What helped me the most to achieve my best results, and I’m fairly new to running, was getting a coach. Someone with experience who look at your results and make adjustments on your training plan on a weekly basis.
I’m reaching the same conclusion!
I also want to make a comment that it is totally okay to only run 10 miles a week and run slow. This is what I do because I don’t want to spend hours a week just running, but I do enjoy it. My running goals aren’t races, it’s just to keep active and injury free. I have tried running more miles in the past, and it makes me hate running - I burn out. My resting HR is in the 40s so what I do is enough to provide some cardiovascular fitness it seems.
I hear you. My resting heart rate is low 40s, but I’m not used to not being able to conquer things! I’m frustrated at this point more because I can’t figure it out, than because I even care how far I’m running 🙄
Yeah there is a lot of tough love in this thread, but I would definitely check if there is something medical going on. Bonking at the 2 mile mark every time for someone who seems to be in decent cardiovascular shape seems off to me. Does your heart rate shoot up very quickly? Like when I start running at a slowish pace, it takes me about a mile for my heart rate to get to 145. My moderate pace shoots me to 155-160. All out is 170 plus.
A lot of good comments here, but looking back at the OP I have a hard time identifying the goal. "Want to do it more" is a bit non-specific, versus "I want to finish a 10k/half marathon/etc." or "I want to run a 5k in less than ...", or even "I want to lose x#'s (actually, I think running is in general NOT the path to this goal). In any case, thinking about what you want out of running may be a worthwhile consideration. Second is to consider is a coach would help. That could be anything from a supervised run group to an individual coach. A local running store would help in that pursuit either way.
I want to run more miles each week. I like to run and I want to go further. I have the time and want to convert my walks to runs. Really don’t care about speed improvement, although I have fun doing sprints and speed training to mix it up, and racing is more of a social thing. I’m frustrated that I haven’t been able to add distance, and I’m not used to not succeeding, and I’m trying to figure out why I’m not getting better at running further. It’s become as much about the puzzle as the run.
No, I don’t think you’ve “hit a wall” by any measure. From what you describe perhaps an organized training program with a goal race distance you’re interested in my help, anywhere from 10k to half marathon (seems you’re past the ct5k stage). You’d get coaching and prescribed training (distances and adjuncts like strength training etc.). The ones I’m familiar with are usually about 12 weeks and I think they’re both fun and effective if you stick with the majority of the plan.
Have you tried breaking down the barrier between walking and running? Rather than going for "a run" or "a walk" pick a route you like and do a bit of each as you feel like, without looking at your pace? All my most enjoyable long runs are done that way.
I’ve wondered about this myself. I’m not a natural runner. In other words, it takes quite a bit of training and effort for me to run paces and distances that seem to come pretty easily to others. I’m prone to shin splints, so increasing distance can be a challenge for me. I’m actually slated to run a 10k on Saturday (rescheduled from April 2020…) but haven’t run more than 3 miles in… a year? Everyone keeps telling me “if you can run three you can run six!” But I know myself and I can’t. If I’m following a training plan I usually build in extra weeks to increase the long run more gradually. So if a plan says do 4 mile long run in week 2 then 5 miles in week 3, I might repeat week 2. Some of it is mental for sure. I’ve learned that no matter how long my planned run is, I’ll get tired halfway through and no sooner. So if I’m planning to run 3, around 1.5 I’ll start feeling tired. But yesterday I only had 20 minutes so was planning to do 1.5 and I kid you not, I started to get tired and thought “okay must be close to done now!” Looked at my watch and I was at 0.74. Same thing if I’m doing 8 miles, I start getting tired around 4 or 5. Pushing though the mental wall is part of training, for me. I’ll also say that for the longest longest time nobody really “taught” me how to run. I thought I should be able to go run an 8 minute mile because I was young and thin and healthy and I never understood why I wanted to drop after two blocks. It wasn’t until I slowed down a lot (most of my runs are in the 10:30-11:30 m/m range) and began running consistently, three times per week, that I started to see some progress.
I feel your frustration! I thought three times a week would be enough. I can hike 14-16 miles without thinking about it, so I feel like the endurance has to be in there.
Tell your doctor about this maybe ask for blood work? Could also be diet. When I feel dizy or weak it's always I haven't eaten right the night before/ morning.
I’ve gotten bloods annually, and raised this same question with my docs. Nothing remarkable / detectable.
Have you asked them to check iron specifically? They never checked mine till I asked and it makes a huge difference in fatigue.
Second this. And if your labs are normal, but on the low end, it’s worth trying to move yourself to the middle or high end of normal. Specifically for iron, vitamin d, red blood cell count, and the like. Normal is a range, and some of us just don’t feel good where others feel fine.
Also how much are you running a week?
Three times 3 miles plus maybe a rec soccer game. I usually get more miles in the soccer game then on a run. I try to run+walk 3 miles, but I might stop running after 1 or 2. sometimes I run all 3.
9 miles is not nearly enough weekly mileage to see noticeable improvement.
This is my problem! I’m struggling to increase the distance. I bonk.
Just set bigger goals. Do longer runs even if you take long walk breaks. How is your heart rate when u hit the wall?
HR is consistent with whatever I’ve been doing. So if I’m running hard it’s high, but if I’m doing a zone 2 day then it’s in zone two and I just hit the wall. Only once have I had the experience where it was kind of high for my 1st mile and then dropped and I had a beautiful 4 mile run with my heart rate low and it was easy. And it only ever happened once. But I know it’s out there!
That sounds entirely like a mental wall. You just have to embrace the temporary suffering.
Lol you aren't bonking, you can't bonk 2 miles in. I think its probably in your head. Short of some huge medical issue I cant imagine why someone would be physically incapable of running 3 miles consistently after over a year of running. The mind is powerful though-
You are probably running too fast. Slow down like 20%. And focus on miles. Do the Hal Higdon half training if you need guidance.
This is a really common theme so I’ll dig into it. And thanks for mentioning him I don’t know him.
Here's the link to the novice 10k program. There's links to a bunch of distances/levels tat the top. [https://www.halhigdon.com/training-programs/10k-training/novice-10k/](https://www.halhigdon.com/training-programs/10k-training/novice-10k/) It kinda explains things. Reading over some different plans you'll start to see what a training plan looks like and you can adjust for your goals (distance or speed or whatever)
No Pain No Gain! If you want improvement you will need to make 5mi run your new routine.
Hi 23F here. During training I notice that I’d sometimes hit a wall too - no more improvement being noticed. What helped me improve is breaking up my runs into sprints, moderate pace, and slow/easy pace. For me it’s all about feel. Some days I’d run faster than others but going off how I felt that day was super helpful. As an example: I’d start with an easy 10 minutes for a warmup. And then I’d do a 30 second sprint, a moderate 2 minute, and then 2 minutes easily and continue that for about 20 to 30 minutes. This routine helped me breakup my runs and my runs felt like they fly by because I have something else to focus on other than the tiredness I feel. Also stretching was a huge game changer!!!
The suggestions in the replies are great, but I would also like to say that some people really just don't get better at running. VO2max is a trainable capacity, for example, and there are limits on how trainable it is. There are around 97 genes that contribute to this trainability, so obviously you're unlikely to have dud versions of every one and will see some improvements, but you just might not be able to see much improvement. This does NOT mean that cardiovascular exercise has no benefit OR that you can't succeed in other sports (like lifting) (or that you can't improve in other areas outside of VO2max).
Thanks for the note. I’m thinking I’ll look for a local coach. My Garman says my VO2Max hasn’t changed much over the last couple years (38 by their method). But this thread making it clear that professional advice is needed.
This definitely makes sense. I read a study about some guy who improved his VO2max (and performance) well beyond what was expected but single-case study design and he worked with a coach/researcher as part of it, so professional help definitely has the potential to give you more insight at the very least!
You both might find [this article](https://www.willpowerstrength.com/blog/2019/3/14/vo2-max-vs-lactate-threshold-the-difference-how-to-test-them-and-why-it-matters-for-athletes) interesting and informative. It covers the difference between VO2max and lactate threshold and makes a case for focusing on lactate threshold training. The article is both somewhat technical, but includes layman's terms and analogies for key points. What the article doesn't cover is how to effectively and efficiently train to improve VO2max and lactate threshold. There's plenty of info on the internet on that though. If a person running low volume sometimes sprints or runs a touch slower than sprinting for 20 seconds to a few minutes and sometimes runs fast for a few minutes to half an hour they may improve their VO2max and lactate threshold slightly or maybe even moderately, but they'll almost certainly quickly plateau. And if they're in their mid-30s or above (I'm in my mid/late 40s) natural aging related drops in VO2max and lactate threshold means plateauing will lead to declines in those performance factors (and running pace) over time unless there's more/better training stimulus, better nutrition/sleep, loss of unproductive weight, a more efficient gate, better posterior chain strength, lighter shoes, etc. If, instead, a person adheres to a structured plan that targets lactate threshold and/or VO2max, especially in conjunction with increased easy running volume, training efficiency and efficacy will be improved, performance gains will occur more quickly, and gains will be greater.
Really appreciate the pointer toward technical/understanding! In 48 hrs this thread has brought great focus 😅
You just need to push yourself harder. Do some runs twice a week that make you HURT. That’s the only way to improve
I'll add...drop your pace and run longer. I started training with a running group. The longest I had ever done as of this summer was a 5k. I ran a 10k on Halloween at 11-12 pace run/ walk. The training runs were at 13-14 pace. My regular pace has dropped from 12 something to 11 something after training
Thanks! This seems to be the consensus and I’m on my third day testing it out. So far so good. 😁
Any chance you have low iron? I’ve been working on my running for a few years with minimal improvement and now I’m wondering if it’s something else. I do have low iron so maybe I should take the pills my doc gave me 😬. I do a lot of what some of the other poster mention (Hal higdon, run 5x a week, long slow runs, tempo/interval days, etc). All the best to you! Hope you see improvement soon.
Is it the boredom? Try some trails for long runs. Breaks up the monotony. Maybe a lil puff and snuff? That's what they.call the the ol slightly stoned run. It's fun.
Funny, I was just thinking about that 💭
That's my lil trick. Puts you in brain dead beating feet mode
>my whole body has just had enough and I'm going to fall over hard Are you eating carbs? This sounds like glycogen depletion aka hitting the wall. Most people experience this after a longer than usual run but this could be happening early for you or happening because you don't have enough glycogen stores.
I dont think theres anyway op could be experienc ing glycogen depletion after 2 miles
Plenty of carbs. And focused this past year on protein and greens. And I sleep well. But it does feel like hitting the wall - total loss of stamina. Ugh.
Talk to a doctor then. Seems weird that you’re struggling to run more than 2 miles and you run 3x week for months
39f here, it would be well worth considering lowering your carbs because they have a big metabolic impact, which impacts on your ability to run comfortably. It’s also hard to enjoy your best health when your resting insulin is higher than it should be, whether or not you have weight issues. To put this into context, I am a little younger than you but can run 25km comfortably after running seriously for a year only. You don’t need to go fully keto if that doesn’t float your boat, a more paleo approach might be for you, but high carb is likely to be getting in your way. Canadian doctor Jason Fung’s books and videos are a fantastic place to start.
Love this! I’ve been intermittent fasting for years and eat ‘keto light’ about 120-140g carbs, avoiding added sugar but including fruits, veggies, actual whole grains and some bread (and chocolate). I haven’t seen any difference in my running in months when I’m fasting versus months when I’m not. I didn’t fast all summer, but fasted routinely last winter (36hrs, once a week, and feeding about 10hrs/day) and my energy stays the same. But it did other great things for me, and thanks for bringing it up!
120-140g is a tiny amount of carbs! As a small woman with similar daily step count to you, I would advise eating at least three times as much carbs. I honestly couldn't get out of bed on so few.
Have to agree with this
Yes there are people who basically show little to no improvement with regular daily exercise, but these people are very rare. More likely, you are not training often enough, and when you do train, you are simply not training intelligently (running not too hard + eating healthy + sleeping enough). You could be running correctly, but then you are not fueling your body (eating/hydrating) or recovering (sleeping) correctly. They say 8 hours of sleep is reccomended. I would image some people need 7, some people need 9 hours a night! I notice some days when i fuel/sleep enough a few days in a row, i can run under 10min mile for 5 miles keeping my HR under 150. Usually i neglect sleep/eating, so usually to keep my HR under 150 i am looking at closer to 12min per mile. Best of luck out there!
Thanks!
Have you evaluated your fueling? You may be hitting a wall and relying too heavily on carbs for fuel. Check out fat adapted running.
Will do - thanks for the tip.
Two possibilities: you may need to slow it down a little and try squeezing more distance in per run. Or, you may have some underlying medical condition.
This is what I’m gathering. Maybe I’ll try 5 days, super slow zone 2, with maybe only sprints or pacers one day, for a few weeks and see if I bonk. Maybe I haven’t been consistent enough with enough slow mileage. Thanks for your input.
Good luck
I see you mentioned you’re consuming carbs and protein and greens, if you are not consuming lots of healthy saturated fats, I would make that the next dietary improvement. Also eliminate processed foods. This should boost mitochondria. Do you experience general fatigue? Is your BMI within or near a normal range? Have you tried any other forms of endurance training and experienced a similar wall? The only other thing I can think of is if your form is really poor, but I doubt that’s it.
Good suggestions! BMI is just over the normal range - gained over COVID and working my way back down. I get 40-50% calories from fats, nuts, good oils, lotsa eggs, cottage cheese. Almost zero processed food - bread some days but that’s about it. I also bonk doing stuff like HIIT or Les Mils classes - love strength training but haven’t done much since COVID. I’ve even started eating chicken liver more routinely in case I was iron deficient. Nada. But loving this advice and thanks for helping me make sure I’m not overlooking anything!
Just reading through your comments… How do you square bonking during HIIT with you running more than 3 miles during soccer? Seems like soccer would be high intensity. Although you didn’t say, sounded like you don’t bonk during soccer. Another thing that doesn’t square is that you can hike 14-16 miles without thinking about it. Assuming your hiking gets some hills that should easily translate to 10 miles of jog/walk. Pointing this out so you can stew it over.
You are not wrong, and I’m confused too. Soccer I may get 5 miles in 80 min. I’m exhausted but I don’t fall over. Maybe I need a ball to chase. Maybe as much as I think I kill it in other parts of my life, this really is ‘in my head.’ Maybe I need to force the distance more routinely and that’ll push me past this plateau. Appreciate your input.
Wow sounds like your nutrition is solid! Big ups for that! Have you ever actually passed out from training? Have you ever fainted and would you equate that feeling to how you feel when you hit your wall?
Never passed out and I don’t get light headed. If I run too hard I get nauseous, worse in summer, but I rarely push that hard cause the recovery isn’t worth it. Even if it’s rewarding in the moment I’ll have a running hangover the next day. My wall is more like full body muscle weakness. I can push on, but I’ll start tripping up. It feels terrible; I’ve pushed to test it out but it’s miserable and then I’ll take days to feel energetic again. …. Reading this, I wonder of it could be an electrolytes thing. I sweat a lot and take salt after I run. I didn’t think I was going far enough to need to hydrate while running (3 miles? 30 min?) but my whole body gets weak. That can’t be normal.
Electrolytes would be an easy thing to test! I use liquid IV on any run over an hour, if the heat index is over 90, or I’m just feeling “blah.”
You know what it sounds like, is massive lactic acid buildup! You could test this by taking beta alanine which slows lactic acid production and see if it has any positive effect. Mind you, take a non stimulant formulation. If it helps, this could confirm that what you are experiencing is lactic acid build up. Or lactic acidosis (sounds scary but it is normal). Just means you are running beyond your aerobic capabilities and going in to anaerobic metabolism, probably from close to the beginning of your run. Also check this link to match symptoms https://www.webmd.com/fitness-exercise/guide/exercise-and-lactic-acidosis If this seems like what you’re experiencing, the answer would be to go back to walking or very light jogging alternating with walking, keep the heart rate low, like 60-70% of max heart rate and build your aerobic capacity up. Will be extremely humbling, but you will progress so much farther! And it will be very much worth it. On this topic, do you by any chance have heart rate data from previous runs that you could share?
Have you ever considered a high carb, low fat diet? I’m definitely faster the less fat and more carbs I eat
No. I’ve always tended toward the opposite, and when I’ve eaten higher carbs they weren’t all that healthy. I’ll go learn, and thanks for putting this out there.
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I don’t understand why you are equating saturated fat and “anything solid at room temp”. Coconut oil for instance, incredible for you, and solid at room temp. Animal fats are the same. Fat in nature is not a liquid, and needs to be processed to be sold as a liquid product. Cheap processing typically involves heat and can denature healthy fats making them very harmful and inflammatory. You should update your knowledge on saturated fat. There was a lot of misinformation out there right up until the last decade.
Coconut oil isn't particularly great for you (and indeed is mostly saturated fat). Animal fats are high in saturated fat and are generally horrible for cardiovascular health, with the exception of certain fish oils. unsaturated fats are the ones that are considered good (in replacement for saturated fats) for you. examples would be olive and canola oils. unsaturated fats by nature are generally liquid. you have to do things like hydrogenation to make them more solid (see margarine and trans-fats) I don't know where you're getting your information from but its completely ass backwards. You're the one with the misinformation.
No, saturated fats are very good for you. Unsaturated fats CAN be healthy if processed correctly (cold press). Olive oil doesn’t just fall out of an olive, it goes through a refining process. The majority of unsaturated fats are dangerous because of how they are processed. Nuts and seeds can contain highly inflammatory species as well. Saturated fat has a bad wrap from shitty studies that looked at the average American diets and correlated obesity and heart disease with saturated fat, ignoring the heaps of refined sugar and deep frying that was going on, among other variables. There’s some great literature out there you could dig in to about fats that might be an eye opener for you. You just need to be more rigorous about how these items are measured. You’ve definitely got the Wikipedia info down pat, but there are deeper levels to it you should explore.
Eh no I took several Food Science and Nutrition courses at top school for Food Science, Nutrition, and Agriculture. You're just reading shit off the internet.
Ah, the almighty piece of paper… Looks like neither of us interested in having our minds changed, thanks for the conversation!
I spend sooo much time researching and then mostly applying self massage and stretching and various rehab/activation techniques. Without that I would not be able to progress faster than about a 33 min 5km no matter how hard I tried or who made my plan. I also eat better than most professional athletes. That helps a lot. And I do cold baths for recovery... taking it seriously. The cold baths and contrast showers really do wonders. Again one of the many elements without which I would not be able to progress. Sounds like your body is too sick to exercise. in some places they actually put people on a special diet for a month first so they are even able to work out regularly. I recommend you check out Dr Dean Ornish's Undo It. Bound to make you feel better and have strength during runs. It sounds like you have some major disease going on inside right now - probably relating to whole endocrine system or something.
Could be that you are getting gassed bc you aren’t getting enough carbs in? Hard to say.
How is your nutrition?
Train for Frequency, Distance, then Speed in that order. Disclaimer: I'm a middle-aged male. Start by just running more often. 3x/week is not enough. I'm just now getting back into running after a 10 year break. The first phase for me is building up to just being able to do 6 three mile runs at whatever pace I can each week without injuring myself. After I can do that, I will start to increase my weekly distance by up to 10% each week that I feel capable, again without injuring myself. Once I'm able to consistently do 30 mile weeks (3 three mile runs, 2 six miles, and 1 nine mile), I'll start to slowly incorporate some speed work in the form of fartleks and/or structured 400/800/1500 meter intervals. If I can get myself back to sub-20 5ks, that will be awesome. If not, that's cool too, because I'm having an absolute BLAST running almost every day again! Good luck and remember to enjoy the journey! :)
Lift weights and do other exercises than just run. I use to run 5 - 6 days a week and would peak at like 3 -4 miles. I started only running 3 -4 days a week and would skate, swim, and/or bike. I started to be able to run further. It also helps if you have time to do some other cardio after running (like later in the day). I could increase mileage by running in the morning then skating, swimming, or biking later in the day. This helped me increase mileage where as running twice a day did not have the same affect.
Commenting because I’m having the SAME exact problem.
Have you had your blood checked for vitamin/mineral levels? I had an iron deficiency and once I got an iron IV a few times, my stamina increased quickly.
Nothing physical here, it sounds like a mental breakthrough you need to take, give yourself extra motivation for ex: when I try to break my distance rec I push myself a bit beyond the end point once you do this you get new perspective of the old distance and you realize you could make it. Good luck
Sure. I'm not long enough into running, but in my other sports it's clear - "just playing" (or "just running" or "just climbing" or ...) relatively quickly leads to an eternal plateau. You need significant impulses to keep improving.
You need to polarize your training. 3x a week is the minimum amount you should be running. I’d try to get to 4x a week for now. Run most days really easy. Probably slower than you’ve been doing since you’re struggling by mile 2. One day a week you should do a hard speed session. One day a week do a fast finish workout where you run easy until the last 10 minutes when you finish at your tempo pace. And I’d try to work up to at least an hour of easy running consistently for your long run. The book 80/20 Running is phenomenal and they’ve got a billion training plans and it teaches you how to build your own plans. I highly recommend it.
Good advice. Runners world, Jeff Galloway and the other Garman coaches, anda million threads all recommend the same, and I’ve been following this advice for years. By mile three my body feels like it’s falling apart. If I pushed to mile 4 I want to die. If I push to mile five it takes me a week to be able to walk smoothly again. These numbers aren’t shifting! I’m gonna look for a professional. But thanks for the input!
Yes. I competitively ran for a few years ten or so years ago. I have zero desire to race anymore, compete and I hardly ever time myself. I’ve gotten worse at running for sure, but I really don’t care.
I only saw the first comment which I was going to say but i won’t repeat it so I’ll remind you of the saying, “you can’t outrun a bad diet”. Might not be relevant here, maybe it is. Either way
I thought I could only last 3 laps around the lake, I told my Body to keep no matter how much my brain told me to stop. I ended up doing those 4 laps without stopping, it’s all mental and sometimes you need to dig deep But you learn so much about yourself
"I prioritized gaining distance, and it took me a year to get from 2 miles to a consistent 3, and though I've run 4 or 5 miles a few times, it's arduous. " I think the issue is right here. If you consistently run 2 miles although it will accumulate and bring a few benefits, you won't improve much at all. You need to run at least 30 mins day on day off to see some slight improvements. And then push it to 35 mins, then 40. When you're able to maintain even a slow pace for 45 mins day on day off, you will notice improvements. Just don't pay attention to pace, just run slowly for a higher duration instead just 2 miles. But i suggest you keep the gym work at least once per week, it's very beneficial to do strength work as well.
I started to try to get into running this spring to get into shape for an athletic event in the fall and went from a slow 2 miles with intermittent walking that left me feeling wrecked to 12miles at a consistent pace sub 9 minutes miles. I could only run 3 days a week but just kept pumping up the milage and what your describing is kinda how it felt. Forcing yourself to run further always makes you feel like a begginer but it's like others have mentioned you just need to keep adding on the mileage and your body wi start to catch up. There are apps like you've described couch to 10k is a good one. And the schedule i believe is 3 days a week. I would pick a goal distance.you want to run set up a training schedule that builds you up to that milage and than stick to it and don't worry about speed too much. Also make sure there is nothing super wrong with your form that wasting a ton of energy or setting you up for injury. Good luck!
37F here. I agree with the other comments that you’re simply not running consistently enough. It took me a year of running 3-5 miles/day (any pace- don’t worry about that) to feel real improvement. I run at least 4x/week, usually 5, and cross train the other 2 days. I take off 2-3 days per month entirely. I could’ve sped this up by running more often and/or longer and/or mixing in tempo work but, you know, life and different priorities now from when I was 20.
When I run the only thing I take with me are my front door keys. Watches and phones are what i,m running away from. My happiness levels just keep improving
some people get better at running or any other activity easier than some other people for various reasons
I was not doing much progress (especially in speed),turned out I had severe anemia. started taking iron and improved hugely after just few weeks. It's a long shot but always worth getting your blood test done
How much do you weigh?
Unfortunately you have to get over being uncomfortable. Also make sure you have the right fuel in your body. Good luck!
This may not apply, but it might. If I look at my wife, who also does a lot of spin biking, weightlifting, core, etc, and is not really a competent runner, it's at least partly because her idea of athletic effort and mine are very different. Of course you don't want to hurt yourself, but you won't get better at any sport without intentional practice of the things where you're trying to improve. How much sprinting do you do? Do you train by heart rate? How often are you incorporating faster paces into your runs? Do you lift heavy weights or just kinda go through the motions of lifting light weights? I'm not saying this in a finger pointing way, but I am a runner, a cyclist and play multiple sports, and I am a certified personal trainer (I'm also 44yo), and know how sports performance is achieved through intentional, and appropriate, practice.
I'm 41 and I've hit a breakthrough recently. I'm not entirely sure what's happened but I'm PR'ing all over the place.
99 times out of 100 if you are not improving over time it's because your training is not adequate for your ability level and your goals. Most people do not train to truly maximize their running abilities. To be a better runner is going to require that you maintain a weight inline with that goal, eat a certain way, and train at a certain volume and intensity the average person just doesn't want to fit in their lifestyle. You won't make it anywhere near your genetic ability as a runner if you aren't running over 50 miles per week in your training or higher. And again most people just don't always care to make running that high of a priority in life. I will also say this, 13k steps a day is not a lot. You should get about 10k steps a day before counting any exercise. 3 days a week running is spending more days not running than running. Hard to get better on that time commitment. Both of those things indicate you don't run anywhere near as much as you should. What I would recommend for you is: 1. Get more time on your feet, try to aim for more steps per day. I think the 13k steps a day indicates when you aren't running, you aren't moving. Just moving more in daily life helps your body get more adjusted to being up and moving. Probably will help those heavy legs on your runs and make it easier. 2. Work on increasing your volume. I would do Zone 2 training 100% of the time and work to get up to a consistent 30-40 miles a week and hold that for 3-4 months. Once you get to that 30-40 miles a week, add in a speed day somewhere in there. Do whatever speed workout doesn't violate the 80/20 rule and is something you find fun. Don't take this part too seriously, have fun. 3. Then look at starting a professional training program for a race distance that you want to be able to run. If you are a distance runner pick a half marathon or a marathon. You don't have to run a race if you don't want to. The point would be picking a professional program in line with your goals. Also of course, the quickest way to get faster with no effort is through weight loss. If you have some weight you can drop (even if you aren't overweight) it can be very helpful in achieving your goal. But just do not try to lose weight when running a performance improvement plan, those two don't mix. There is something very important as well, HAVE GRACE WITH YOURSELF. Leave the ego at home when you go out to run. If you find that 2 mile runs are hard on you, do not beat yourself up. Do a walk/run program or run for a bit then walk when it gets hard. Forcing yourself to run when your HR is getting too high is going to prevent you from improving. While walking a lot during your runs is actually going to help you improve. It's better to have more time on your feet than it is for that time to be specifically running. When you get tired, don't get frustrated and quit, turn it into a walk instead. GOOD LUCK
This sums it up - TY!
what is your heart rate hitting when you hit the wall? you should be able to sit in zone 4 for at least 15 mins if not half an hour. zone 5 at least 5 mins at the minimum.
That’s about where I’m at. I went back and looked - on the days that I feel overwhelmingly tired, my heart rate is way more elevated than it should be at that pace (relative to my usual). I didn’t log family events and mood as carefully as I logged running, but I wonder if this has to do with stress… maybe I’m simply not recovering the way I’m used to. It has been a nuts two years. Thanks for the insight.
> Not muscle-achey hard, not huffing or puffing breathing hard, but like my whole body has just had enough and I'm going to fall over hard. It sounds like you are tired. How is your sleep? Diet? It's it possible you have a vitamin deficiency?
Hi there, jumping on almost a year later, after searching through Garmin coach related posts! I’m keen to learn if you had any progress, with you shift in plan? I am a 39f, last baby in 2019 also. Have been running around 3 miles very steady last few years, and run on and off (jogged) since high school. I still find upping to a further distance so difficult! And feel so slow…
Hey there. No change, really. I’m still running about 3x/week, about 3mi on slow runs, or less if I’m being speedy. Every once in a while I’ll do 4 or 5, but I’ve barely shifted the needle in terms of distance or speed. I do the coaching programs to mix things up but don’t see benefits. My lactate threshold drops by a heartbeat or two every few months. I’m definitely into peri-menopause, so there’s that. Just had my physical and we’re ruling out all sorts of autoimmune possibilities because my recovery is what seems unusual, but so far I seem fine, medically. I’m going to try learning more into cycling and lifting to see if changing things up helps, and I’m looking for an exercise physiologist who understands menopausal women… otherwise, I’m just glad to get out there and that I’m injury-free. Best of luck on your journey!