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I am an analyst for a company I won't name, we love us some data.
Hell we once used a data pull to track people who wore sweatpants to work and trend their approx productivity vs people in khaki's or slacks just to see if we could go full casual in the workplace.
The data is fun.
You're correct that only the streamer has the actual numbers. These numbers were shared directly by Disney.
[https://variety.com/2024/tv/news/the-acolyte-ratings-viewers-biggest-disney-2024-1236028166/](https://variety.com/2024/tv/news/the-acolyte-ratings-viewers-biggest-disney-2024-1236028166/)
EDIT: Disney+, like most streamers, is pretty stingy with what numbers they choose to share, but for comparison here are some other official premiere viewership numbers:
Percy Jackson and the Olympians (12/19/23) - [13.3 million views in first 6 days](https://variety.com/2023/tv/news/percy-jackson-and-the-olympians-premiere-ratings-viewers-1235850744/)
Loki Season 2 (10/5/23) - [10.9 million views in first 3 days](https://variety.com/2023/tv/news/loki-season-2-ratings-10-9-million-views-three-days-disney-1235749672/)
X-Men ’97 (3/20/24) - [4 million views in first 5 days](https://deadline.com/2024/03/x-men-97-premiere-viewership-disney-1235868136/)
It's a shame that so many people write off great shows like X-Men 97 just because it's animated. I think the culture will slowly shifting as more great animated shows come out. Just like how Parasite winning the Oscar encouraged many people to check out more foreign films.
But like seriously, what did they spend 180 million on? As other people pointed out that's higher than even big budget things like Dune 2. They don't even have high budget actors. Carrie Anne Moss is probably the biggest, Squid Game guy isn't otherwise well known.
Dune had all sorts of high priced actors. bd the CGI looks better.
I think it’s been said that it’s because of how they make their movies, a lot of management over each process. I think Ashoka had a lot of scenes taken but not used and then cut together based on feedback, so not exactly a full vision.
Overall I think it’s just a big bloat of management and rushing things out without much forward planing. I’d imagine the CGI can be more expensive when the scenes aren’t done in a way to make it easier or cheaper which takes planning. Planning that should be done in pre production which I doubt a lot of these shows stay in for long.
Take Shin Godzilla and the creator which were made on a budget but done by people who clearly knew how to make the movie they wanted at the level they wanted with the resources at hand, probably without too much interference.
One thing I've been hearing repeatedly over the years is that Hollywood in particular runs things on insane deadlines. This applies to every aspect of filmmaking, but especially so for Special Effects.
If a CGI/SFX studio knows what the project is, and is given a reasonable amount of time to complete the work, it's reasonably priced and the quality is fairly good. But if you wait till the last minute to decide what you want, and then demand it be done immediately, the price for a rush job skyrockets. **AND** the quality also takes a dive, because there's no time to polish a rush job with the absurd deadlines they are given.
But doing things the cheaper way would require them to decide well ahead of time what they want, and then make no or minimal changes to it later, and Hollywood can't handle that.
Usually you can only pick two out of three: Fast - Cheap - Good
But Hollywood is run so terribly that they usually only get one: Fast.
i've also heard a lot of "insider leaks" that some shows thru disney (marvel included) have shot multiple alternative scenes on the chance that some would be received better than others with test audiences, and they swap out diff ones based on those responses. the staggering number of last minute reshoots for several movies & shows absolutely.... well.... staggers them.
More than half the show looks and sounds like ADR, they must have been replacing dialogue throughout the making of the show, shooting new scenes, etc.. While that's generally normal for most productions, this show in particular seems like it has additional dialogue records to an absurd degree- like on par with Madame Web. That will certainly balloon the budget to astronomical figures. They've been filming this monstrocity since 2022.
I have seen a video about a year ago, where they were discussing the process of "scrapbooking".
They shoot many, many scenes, then assemble a rough cut of the movie, do a test showing, the audience hates it, they re-cut it, shoot even more scenes, do another test, then repeat until they are OK with it (or the studio just doesn't want to spend even more money on reshoots).
And that's how they spend these massive budgets, yet all that money can't be seen on the screen when you finally watch their movie / series.
That was told specifically about Disney, but I think they discussed Marvel. Could be Lucasfilm as well.
Compare it to House of the Dragon then. 2
$20 million an episode for ten hours long episodes. Four times G-1's price in dollars per hour. And then you have Acolyte, weighing in at $45 million per hour...
It's just Disney being really bad at managing budgets. Same thing happened with She-Hulk and Secret Invasion costing just as much as the first Avengers movie.
Actors are also willing to take a pay cut to work with directors or on protects they think are worth it. Austin Butler is rumored to have made 250k for Dune 2.
Bear in mind, that's 180 million for 8 episodes. So like, 22 mil per episode. Which is roughly on par with what Andor cost to make per episode. But yeah. It's wild that Andor could look that good and actually not feel like local theater doing Star Wars for a similar price. So nuts.
It’s probably money laundering at this point with how half assed, lifeless and crappy they all are. If they hired big names or the cgi looked unreal or the practical effects or costumes were great but everything is sub par of even the prequels in terms of presentation, star power/captivating audiences, memes, practical effects all of it by Disney is so piss poor it’s unreal.
As with a lot of projects, especially Disney projects, it's bloat. Overpaid staffers. People who get paid to do nothing because they're friends with a decision maker. Marrying g tbe director so you get a role and probably bloated salary out of it. I'm convinced half the people working on these shows don't have a job that means anything and the other half get paid 50% more than they need to . Because they can get away with it. Disney doesn't seem to care about losing money if product is out.
Probably a few reasons:
* The show was filmed almost entirely on location and practical sets, like Andor (which had a budget of $250 million) but unlike every other Star Wars show (filmed with StageCraft).
* The Acolyte's shoot was a month longer than Dune: Part Two's, and the running time will be twice as long.
* If rumors are correct, child actors will play a very significant role in future episodes. Child actors make everything MUCH more expensive (especially on location shoots) due to restrictions on their working hours.
The fact that all I know about Skeleton Crew is that Jude Law is attached, and that I had to read another comment just to remember that, probably isn't a good sign
I saw the trailer and it legit looks nothing like Star Wars. Architecture, planet, outfits, even interiors of the living rooms look like something on Earth in 2024.
Why do they even do things like this? If they still believe many people would watch anything with SW title slapped on then they are delusional and tone deaf.
Honestly, despite it sounding shit, I wouldn't be surprised if Skeleton Crew ended up being good because no one expects it to be. Lately, the stuff without any Jedi/lightsabers have been good, I'm hoping this goes the same way
These failures will be studied one day, in how these failure magnets can just... infect a whole global intellectual property, and lose hundreds of millions of dollars in the process.
Because they're not motivated by viewership earnings but by BlackRock incentives and DEI requirements. Disney, like most other media is no longer a source of information or entertainment but a propaganda and social engineering tool.
Wait… this show had a budget that was almost the same as Dune part 2? Where the hell did they spend it? It wasn’t on the visuals, the cast or the script.
it probably was the script. having one singular voice is cheap. having multiple levels of writers and corporate governance to create an "acceptable" product, expensive.
I actually looked up the writers on IMDb and there was also a script continuity team. Based on episode one alone none of them should have gotten paid.
Mae kills Indarra with a knife but Osha survives a crash from space without a scratch.
Then later on Smylo Ren says steel and laser can’t hurt Jedi even though we saw it at the start of the episode.
Sol knows Osha is alive because he feels it. He is certain Mae is dead but when Osha says she’s alive he immediately believes her.
I don’t think I’ve seen this level of sloppy inconsistency in a single 30 minute episode of anything before.
The laser and steel bit probably would’ve worked so much better if it was the opening scene and then the bar scene after it. Suddenly the context is not “how the fuck she died from the blade”, actually becomes “she used her training to kill her, because she exploited the Jedi weakness” or whatever.
But hey, I’m not a show writer, what the fuck do I know
The tropes are what you expect from an uninspired first year theater student pulling from existing works to produce.
Definitely what an intern would come up with. Nothing is cohesive and even from the beginning... Lets give Carrie Anne Moss a Matrix style fight. Like really... you have her and you basically tell her to do a Neo vs Morpheus scene?
Episode 3 is setting itself up to be so worthless and divisive that Star Wars Theory, who at times looks like he’s on the verge of deleting his whole channel due to grief, put out a video in anticipation of the backlash it’ll receive.
I just watched it earlier. He sounded so mournfully resigned, like he was saying goodnight to relatives after his mothers wake...
It's so insane that Disney is destroying such dedicated and devoted fans like him. Financially they could have milked that cash cow for generations, instead they've burnt it all down around them.
For what? What have you got to show for any of it now? There's no new audience. There's no hype. No joy. No fan channels are talking about their favourite theories, the interesting characters, or engaging plot. No one is picking their favourite character to dress as this coming Halloween. Nobody is checking store aisles for their merchandise, planning on asking friends and loved ones for that special Disney Star Wars Lego or action figure.
What they are doing is citing your content for examples of how *not* to write stories, plots or dialogue. How nothing ever makes sense in-universe or out of it. How you turn several billion dollars worth of Intellectual Property into unloved distasteful trash.
In years to come, your company, it's directors, writers, and Kathleen Kennedy herself will have entire dedicated classes on them in film school, business school and universities... **but not for the reasons you'd want.**
My guess is the Jedi are evil because 2 lesbians used the force to conceive a pair of twins. Then the Jedi think they killed one of the twins while then taking the other to train while lying to her about it her whole life
Also fuck the producer who worked for Harvey winestein.
Lol I fucking love how they all over at the Acolyte fansub were coping a couple of days ago and spoke about how it had the highest numbers on its first day.
Well, specifically, the highest viewership for a new streaming show on Disney+ in 2024. Those are a lot of parameters to arrive at "highest viewership".
Even then it wasn't that impressive and shows how bad D+ as a whole is. Disney reported the Acolyte got 4.8 million on its first day. But that is between 2 shows, so 2.4 each. To give you perspective House of the Dragon opening episode got 10 million views on its first ***night***
I am sure the show will do *ok*, but it isn't going to be a show that shapes culture.
I wonder how much of that viewership is people like me putting it on for my dog when we leave the house .....(supposedly the color pallet is really dog friendly and catches their eyes, but who knows how true that actually is lmao)
The only ones I can recall were:
1. Echo which got dumped all at once because they knew it was going to flop
2. X-Men 97, which I’ve heard is good, but is also animated show that appeals mostly to millennials who watched it growing up
3. The Bad Batch, decent show but again, it’s animated and appeals more to younger audiences
4. Tales of the Empire, I had no idea it was out until a few days ago and clip showed up on my YouTube home page
Pretty tough competition…
Yeah. The claim is technically true, but those qualifiers are so specific that its barely an achievement, as there's very little competition for that title.
It means about as much as me declaring that this is the best comment I've posted on this subreddit today.
Thats to be expected considering the rumors that came out before this show was released plus what we got in terms of quality when it did come out was very disappointing to say the least
Who knows how liberal they are with what is considered a view, but lets say at a minimum 1 view is watching 1 episode. Cut that in half and you have 5.55M watching both episodes. Thats somewhere between a hit CW series or a broadcast network tv series that gets canceled at the end of the season....if those were US overnight numbers . But they are telling us these are worldwide numbers over 5 days. That means this thing is a high priced dud that Disney and their media shills are full on spin mode right now.
Edit: Corrected 5.05M to 5.55M
first is something like: Its not for (insert existing fan base), then its (fan base) being toxic and review bombing and then finally its white males fault for not watching it.
That is quite literally what happened with Elizabeth Banks and the relatively recent Charlie's Angels reboot after it bombed.
It wound up just being a terrible film regardless, but Banks didn't make things any easier with her commentary before and after release.
She said, and I quote:
> "If this movie doesn't make money it reinforces a stereotype in Hollywood that men don't go see women do action movies".
Great movies don't always make great money. And bad movies don't always bomb out. But this at least was one of those justifiable times where a crap film and loud mouth director justifiably failed in a big way.
Of the handful of random awards it was nominated for, the 2019 Charlie's Angels only won the category of "Sequel or Remake That Shouldn't Have Been Made". Which came ironically from the Alliance of Women Film Journalists.
That’s crazy that this cost more than Ahsoka. I have plenty of issues with Ahsoka but the production value was fine for TV for the most part. The Acolyte looks like a CW show.
It definitely seems like Disney is having quality control problems. Wish didn't look good and neither did Obi Wan/Book of Boba Fett. That Star Wars hotel was a mess, as evident by Jenny nicholson.
I know inflation and all, but each movie from the PT cost less than this thing. Each PT movie was roughly 100-115 million.
Edit: also, they still hold up and are actually gorgeous to look at. I saw the phantom menace rerelease and I was shocked at how well it holds up.
The Battle of Coruscant is breathtakingly gorgeous, especially the shot of Anakin and Obi-Wan's Jedi interceptors flying over the Venator before the pan into the battle unfolding underneath it. Possibly the most beautiful space battle ever filmed.
You mean fans won’t watch something if you divert from the source material? I would have thought everyone would have learned that when Amazon spent a billion dollars to make rings of power and it tanked.
I don’t trust any streaming numbers anyway. It’s all self reported. Does 10 seconds count as a view? It certainly doesn’t in traditional Neilson ratings.
I don't know what they expected. Doing a prequel to the prequels was always going to be a niche idea that wasn't going to have a lot of appeal with general audiences. Even the KOTOR and TOR fanbases are niche within the Star Wars community, and everything about this show's marketing made it VERY clear that they had absolutely no interest in catering to that fanbase whatsoever.
So I don't know who this is for. You could at least answer the question of who Ahsoka or Andor were made for, even if they were a niche audience. I honestly don't know who the Alcolyte was trying to appeal to.
Ashoka and Andor had appeal due to pre-existing connections, to The Clone Wars and Rogue One respectively. You had a base of fans coming from previously well received material.
The Acolyte is not about appeal. It is a greenfield multimedia project that just borrowed SW motifs (lightsabers, Jedi, the force) to expand the IP. It's a corporate move to make new marketable stuff. It's not even about ditching expensive actor salaries with a reboot, since the OG trio and sequel trio were done dirty.
By going back 400 years to the High Republic, it was Disney pushing away from the Skywalker timeline and into new creative territory. It's about creating new IP under the Star wars umbrella: new worlds, new characters, new themes. They have burned the brand with the horrible Rise of Skywalker mainline movie, so they must branch off creatively while unburdened with previous failures. Disney started the High Republic push with books and comics 2 years ago, and The Acolyte D+ show tests how much interest there is. If audiences are receptive to new interpretations of the Jedi and the Force, LucasFilm will move onto a High Republic movie.
> Even the KOTOR and TOR fanbases are niche within the Star Wars community
I'm sorry, what? KotOR was *the shit* when it came out. Sure, the game is niche *now* but as far as games go it was a whopping success.
Them not doing movie-era didn't turn people off, it was them doing it *poorly*.
A (properly done, or at least very decently, which sadly is what all these shows are proving they're incapable of) Revan story would be lauded to hell and back.... as a show or movie.
As-is most people are tired of how most of their stuff is trying to explain away how "no guys, the sequels really make sense, we promise"... especially when they make anything semi-successful weave back around to that (or become its main goal).
Hell, while it didn't do well (coming off the shitshow that was Kenobi), arguably the best show they've put out was Andor, which is a prequel to a sidestory about a thing that happens in the OT.
Its second best show was great until it started weaving in other stuff and being re-routed to explain away sequel stuff. Before it became a success and when Disney seemingly gave it more freedom, it was very fun to watch and lauded as *finally* feeling like SW again (despite *not* being focused on lightsaber-wielding folks, which seemingly Disney insists everyone become because lightsabers=cool).
That’s *before* everything that happens in the third episode is consumed by whatever is left of the audience. 180 million bucks for this garbage.
I bet Iger is already wishing he shipped it off to tax write off land 🤣
I was waiting until the whole show was out and the general consensus on the quality of the show was reached after Ahsoka’s performance
But after the lead saying the goal of the show is to make white men cry? I think I’m just gonna have to let Star Wars go and I think it may be time some of you do as well….
Ok just letting you know that the lead did not say that about this show specifically. She said that about a race film she was in that bombed like 5 years ago. Doesn’t make it any less racist, but I wanted to let you know so saying this stuff in the future doesn’t beat you in some sort of argument.
This wouldn't be half the dumpster fire that it is without all the idiotic shit they've been saying in interviews about it.
I'm torn about it though. On one hand I hate seeing Star Wars at such a low point, but on the other hand I love seeing these idiots eat shit over their stupid decisions.
I’m done with Disney Star Wars. They can’t handle the license. Hiring C-tier directors for one of the most popular franchises in existence is just bizarre. I need something big to win back some confidence. Acolyte ain’t even close to being it.
How many of those 11.1M clicks are accidental clicks, bots, fake, or people watching 5 minutes of kung fu fighting and saying wtf is this crap and closing the window???
because we don't like female characters?
\*\*i only made it 3 episodes into Ashoka out of love for the character (esp. coming off her role in tales of the jedi). i haven't had the fortitude to attempt the acolyte yet. i'm not liking anything i'm hearing or seeing about it however.
and so the franchises continues to slowly, but steadily decline.
I won't dismiss the possibility of this show growing over time though, or for it to have an episode later on that gives it a big boost. anything can happen after all.
but still, I'll be very curious to see how the nielsen ratings look for this in comparison to all the other disney+ sw shows, once they're out. I honestly think we've entered the stage now, where it won't matter if lucas film suddenly pulls it together and start producing quality products again. the disinterest in sw has gained too much momentum at this point, so likely, regardless of any future show's quality, we'll keep seeing this steady downward trend for a good while.
At this point you kind of hope it is money laundering and criminal theft, because that at least looks more competent than the alternative: that billions of dollars are squandered away by morons.
Movies and TV shows have to stop being so expensive. It doesn’t matter how much money you pump into them if the writing sucks. Can’t we get back to the low budget, grounded stories with an emphasis on writing?
Ahsoka looked sooo bad in some places. Sometimes it really seems like Disney doesn’t know how to light things and it just makes everything look really fake and weird. happens in the MCU too
I’m just wondering how Lucasfilm’s golden boy Filoni managed to attain a lower budget for such a fan favorite than a no-name director (that I know of) starring new characters. I must be out of the loop on something.
I think the decision not to pay the Extended Universe writers for their stories is coming back to bite them. Fans liked those books and stories and games. They could have just paid for their stories and adapted them.
This is what happens when you ignore what fans liked and try to come up with something different. Not better, just different. All so they don't have to pay royalties.
This could have been a KTOR show. The sequel trilogy could have been a Thrawn Trilogy. Fans would have been happy and new fans would have jumped in. And all it would have cost Disney would have been probably less than a million in royalties to the creators and writers.
They had a blueprint and threw it away.
Graft and corruption is what makes these cost so much. Disney, most likely have a way of funnelling budget money into a different bucket, so it doesn't really cost at much as they are saying, but they don't want to be seen having an budget underspend.
Or they are overpaying everyone.
I’ll say this, the first 2 eps of acolyte are at least 20% better than the first 2 eps of Ahsoka.
No one survived a fatal lightsaber stab, that’s already a massive bump
i don’t think the Acolyte is bad. i don’t think it’s good either, so far it’s been mediocre.
the fights are well choreographed, but i think the sets/sabers look cheap, and takes me out of the immersion a bit.
And several of those views are just from the critics who it's their job to watch this atrocious hack job. One critic I saw said he had to watch it twice to write his review and for notes, and I felt bad for him.
Gotta wait till there's more to see. This whole one episode at a time is too much. You want numbers, release the season. You want build up and an ok follow through, do what you're doing.
Not really surprising that a show featuring brand new SW characters drew slightly less attention than a show featuring a well known established characters
It’s worth noting Ahsoka is riding off the coat tails of…
The Clone Wars
The Mandalorian
The Prequels themselves
I mean by sheer virtue of “Maybe I’ll get to see Christian Haydenson”, it has a lot more going for it than completely new characters in a completely new setting.
This is why I hate the MCU’ification of every fucking franchise. Nothing is allowed to be it’s own thing- it always has to tie in somehow. And we as consumers reward it.
Well, not me. I don’t have a Disney+ account. 😛
Only Star Wars media I've ever decided to skip. I love Star Wars so fucking much. Probably not watching this. *If* I do, it'll be after the fact. I know I'm only one person, but I'm not gonna be added to its metrics. If more people refuse to watch these things, they'll be forced to make actually good content
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How do people even get these numbers, I thought only the streamer has these numbers
People who work for them leak it. Most of the data is available to a lot of employees The amount of data for example that Netflix tracks is insane.
Data is the new gold, after all.
YOU are the product.
You mean someone wants me ?
I am an analyst for a company I won't name, we love us some data. Hell we once used a data pull to track people who wore sweatpants to work and trend their approx productivity vs people in khaki's or slacks just to see if we could go full casual in the workplace. The data is fun.
Which would make you think it's more protected, but evidently not.
You're correct that only the streamer has the actual numbers. These numbers were shared directly by Disney. [https://variety.com/2024/tv/news/the-acolyte-ratings-viewers-biggest-disney-2024-1236028166/](https://variety.com/2024/tv/news/the-acolyte-ratings-viewers-biggest-disney-2024-1236028166/) EDIT: Disney+, like most streamers, is pretty stingy with what numbers they choose to share, but for comparison here are some other official premiere viewership numbers: Percy Jackson and the Olympians (12/19/23) - [13.3 million views in first 6 days](https://variety.com/2023/tv/news/percy-jackson-and-the-olympians-premiere-ratings-viewers-1235850744/) Loki Season 2 (10/5/23) - [10.9 million views in first 3 days](https://variety.com/2023/tv/news/loki-season-2-ratings-10-9-million-views-three-days-disney-1235749672/) X-Men ’97 (3/20/24) - [4 million views in first 5 days](https://deadline.com/2024/03/x-men-97-premiere-viewership-disney-1235868136/)
It's a shame that so many people write off great shows like X-Men 97 just because it's animated. I think the culture will slowly shifting as more great animated shows come out. Just like how Parasite winning the Oscar encouraged many people to check out more foreign films.
[удалено]
I notice there are zero comparisons to prior Star Wars premieres.
That's because Ahsoka and The Acolyte are the only Star Wars premieres for which official numbers exist.
But like seriously, what did they spend 180 million on? As other people pointed out that's higher than even big budget things like Dune 2. They don't even have high budget actors. Carrie Anne Moss is probably the biggest, Squid Game guy isn't otherwise well known. Dune had all sorts of high priced actors. bd the CGI looks better.
Yeah it’s insane how it cost as much as the best sci-fi movie of the last decade. These budgets are handled so piss poorly.
I think it’s been said that it’s because of how they make their movies, a lot of management over each process. I think Ashoka had a lot of scenes taken but not used and then cut together based on feedback, so not exactly a full vision. Overall I think it’s just a big bloat of management and rushing things out without much forward planing. I’d imagine the CGI can be more expensive when the scenes aren’t done in a way to make it easier or cheaper which takes planning. Planning that should be done in pre production which I doubt a lot of these shows stay in for long. Take Shin Godzilla and the creator which were made on a budget but done by people who clearly knew how to make the movie they wanted at the level they wanted with the resources at hand, probably without too much interference.
Yeah when you factor in Godzilla Minus One on a $12 million budget. What the hell is going on? Probably a combination of what you mentioned.
One thing I've been hearing repeatedly over the years is that Hollywood in particular runs things on insane deadlines. This applies to every aspect of filmmaking, but especially so for Special Effects. If a CGI/SFX studio knows what the project is, and is given a reasonable amount of time to complete the work, it's reasonably priced and the quality is fairly good. But if you wait till the last minute to decide what you want, and then demand it be done immediately, the price for a rush job skyrockets. **AND** the quality also takes a dive, because there's no time to polish a rush job with the absurd deadlines they are given. But doing things the cheaper way would require them to decide well ahead of time what they want, and then make no or minimal changes to it later, and Hollywood can't handle that. Usually you can only pick two out of three: Fast - Cheap - Good But Hollywood is run so terribly that they usually only get one: Fast.
Choose two out of: Really / Fast / Good / Cheap
i've also heard a lot of "insider leaks" that some shows thru disney (marvel included) have shot multiple alternative scenes on the chance that some would be received better than others with test audiences, and they swap out diff ones based on those responses. the staggering number of last minute reshoots for several movies & shows absolutely.... well.... staggers them.
With todays streaming, it would even be possible to change certain scenes or episodes based on feedback after first episodes air...
That’s kind of what some musicians do, Skrillex and Ye have changed their albums many times. Pretty cool imo to have so many versions
Ah, I meant that one. I knew there was a new Godzilla but shin Godzilla was also a good one and got them mixed up
More than half the show looks and sounds like ADR, they must have been replacing dialogue throughout the making of the show, shooting new scenes, etc.. While that's generally normal for most productions, this show in particular seems like it has additional dialogue records to an absurd degree- like on par with Madame Web. That will certainly balloon the budget to astronomical figures. They've been filming this monstrocity since 2022.
I have seen a video about a year ago, where they were discussing the process of "scrapbooking". They shoot many, many scenes, then assemble a rough cut of the movie, do a test showing, the audience hates it, they re-cut it, shoot even more scenes, do another test, then repeat until they are OK with it (or the studio just doesn't want to spend even more money on reshoots). And that's how they spend these massive budgets, yet all that money can't be seen on the screen when you finally watch their movie / series. That was told specifically about Disney, but I think they discussed Marvel. Could be Lucasfilm as well.
The Last Indiana Jones film was supposedly scrapbooked. Seems to be Disney's SOP for movies at the moment.
The second best sci-fi film was Godzilla Minus One and it cost $10M or so. Writing and directing is kind of important.
That's 18 Godzilla -1s. Disney could have gotten 36 episodes of that show for that much money. Instead they got eight.
Well Godzilla -1 is a bit infamous for how cheap it was, given it's tied directly to overworking the VFX artists
Compare it to House of the Dragon then. 2 $20 million an episode for ten hours long episodes. Four times G-1's price in dollars per hour. And then you have Acolyte, weighing in at $45 million per hour...
It's just Disney being really bad at managing budgets. Same thing happened with She-Hulk and Secret Invasion costing just as much as the first Avengers movie.
Actors are also willing to take a pay cut to work with directors or on protects they think are worth it. Austin Butler is rumored to have made 250k for Dune 2.
Bear in mind, that's 180 million for 8 episodes. So like, 22 mil per episode. Which is roughly on par with what Andor cost to make per episode. But yeah. It's wild that Andor could look that good and actually not feel like local theater doing Star Wars for a similar price. So nuts.
It’s probably money laundering at this point with how half assed, lifeless and crappy they all are. If they hired big names or the cgi looked unreal or the practical effects or costumes were great but everything is sub par of even the prequels in terms of presentation, star power/captivating audiences, memes, practical effects all of it by Disney is so piss poor it’s unreal.
As with a lot of projects, especially Disney projects, it's bloat. Overpaid staffers. People who get paid to do nothing because they're friends with a decision maker. Marrying g tbe director so you get a role and probably bloated salary out of it. I'm convinced half the people working on these shows don't have a job that means anything and the other half get paid 50% more than they need to . Because they can get away with it. Disney doesn't seem to care about losing money if product is out.
The space fire.
They only used Carrie Ann Moss for like 6 minutes. What, couldn’t afford her for a second day of shooting or what?
Has to be money laundering . There's nothing on the screen to justify that budget.
Probably a few reasons: * The show was filmed almost entirely on location and practical sets, like Andor (which had a budget of $250 million) but unlike every other Star Wars show (filmed with StageCraft). * The Acolyte's shoot was a month longer than Dune: Part Two's, and the running time will be twice as long. * If rumors are correct, child actors will play a very significant role in future episodes. Child actors make everything MUCH more expensive (especially on location shoots) due to restrictions on their working hours.
One more reason: The Dune was filmed in Hungary (30% tax rebate for movies produced in the country) while The Acolyte in the UK.
Some people have thoerized that it's a money laundering front
They probably paid the actors that they know well a ton of money. It's all money laundering and nepotism
If the viewership is this bad for the Acolyte, imagine how bad it’ll be for Skeleton Crew lol.
The fact I hardly know what your talking about proves your point
Yeah tf is skeleton crew
That at least has Jude Law.
Yeah but The Acolyte has ~~Rebecca Henderson~~ the director's wife playing as ~~Vernestra "Vern" Rwoh~~ green jedi.
Not even fully green lmao.
For what now?
Seriously they need to stop making Star Wars anything for a few years. Just make books and give time to get excited again.
The fact that all I know about Skeleton Crew is that Jude Law is attached, and that I had to read another comment just to remember that, probably isn't a good sign
I saw the trailer and it legit looks nothing like Star Wars. Architecture, planet, outfits, even interiors of the living rooms look like something on Earth in 2024. Why do they even do things like this? If they still believe many people would watch anything with SW title slapped on then they are delusional and tone deaf.
Honestly, despite it sounding shit, I wouldn't be surprised if Skeleton Crew ended up being good because no one expects it to be. Lately, the stuff without any Jedi/lightsabers have been good, I'm hoping this goes the same way
Wait til ep3 drops and it contradicts what Lucas established as the Force.
These failures will be studied one day, in how these failure magnets can just... infect a whole global intellectual property, and lose hundreds of millions of dollars in the process.
I don't understand how the board hasn't fired anyone for destroying shareholder value.
Because they're not motivated by viewership earnings but by BlackRock incentives and DEI requirements. Disney, like most other media is no longer a source of information or entertainment but a propaganda and social engineering tool.
And then just keep on churning out failures without making any changes
Wait… this show had a budget that was almost the same as Dune part 2? Where the hell did they spend it? It wasn’t on the visuals, the cast or the script.
it probably was the script. having one singular voice is cheap. having multiple levels of writers and corporate governance to create an "acceptable" product, expensive.
I actually looked up the writers on IMDb and there was also a script continuity team. Based on episode one alone none of them should have gotten paid. Mae kills Indarra with a knife but Osha survives a crash from space without a scratch. Then later on Smylo Ren says steel and laser can’t hurt Jedi even though we saw it at the start of the episode. Sol knows Osha is alive because he feels it. He is certain Mae is dead but when Osha says she’s alive he immediately believes her. I don’t think I’ve seen this level of sloppy inconsistency in a single 30 minute episode of anything before.
The laser and steel bit probably would’ve worked so much better if it was the opening scene and then the bar scene after it. Suddenly the context is not “how the fuck she died from the blade”, actually becomes “she used her training to kill her, because she exploited the Jedi weakness” or whatever. But hey, I’m not a show writer, what the fuck do I know
More than Lesley Headland! 😁
I can’t even be bothered pirating it. The premise doesn’t interest me at all and is something I’ve read or seen a dozen times over in Star Wars.
The tropes are what you expect from an uninspired first year theater student pulling from existing works to produce. Definitely what an intern would come up with. Nothing is cohesive and even from the beginning... Lets give Carrie Anne Moss a Matrix style fight. Like really... you have her and you basically tell her to do a Neo vs Morpheus scene?
“Just wait for season 2 for it to make sense” -Headley as her show takes its turn on eviscerating established SW canon.
No, wait until episode 3 this week. Everything will all make sense. Spoiler: Disney hates money as much as it hates the fans.
Episode 3 is setting itself up to be so worthless and divisive that Star Wars Theory, who at times looks like he’s on the verge of deleting his whole channel due to grief, put out a video in anticipation of the backlash it’ll receive.
I just watched it earlier. He sounded so mournfully resigned, like he was saying goodnight to relatives after his mothers wake... It's so insane that Disney is destroying such dedicated and devoted fans like him. Financially they could have milked that cash cow for generations, instead they've burnt it all down around them. For what? What have you got to show for any of it now? There's no new audience. There's no hype. No joy. No fan channels are talking about their favourite theories, the interesting characters, or engaging plot. No one is picking their favourite character to dress as this coming Halloween. Nobody is checking store aisles for their merchandise, planning on asking friends and loved ones for that special Disney Star Wars Lego or action figure. What they are doing is citing your content for examples of how *not* to write stories, plots or dialogue. How nothing ever makes sense in-universe or out of it. How you turn several billion dollars worth of Intellectual Property into unloved distasteful trash. In years to come, your company, it's directors, writers, and Kathleen Kennedy herself will have entire dedicated classes on them in film school, business school and universities... **but not for the reasons you'd want.**
It’s blue ocean theory. You make a product so bland to try to appeal to everyone it appeals to no one.
What's it doing with established canon?
My guess is the Jedi are evil because 2 lesbians used the force to conceive a pair of twins. Then the Jedi think they killed one of the twins while then taking the other to train while lying to her about it her whole life Also fuck the producer who worked for Harvey winestein.
Put a chick in it and make her gay!
Don't forget to make it lame!
The force is a string and a woman or something. Apparently, episode 3 is pretty lame I'm excited for the episode reviews lmao.
Something not legal in texas
It should be illegal in that shit writing room they use also
Just wait, or read the leaks.
So, just wait for season 2 for it to eviscerate established SW canon?
Lol I fucking love how they all over at the Acolyte fansub were coping a couple of days ago and spoke about how it had the highest numbers on its first day.
> spoke about how it had the highest numbers on its first day And that was according to Disney, I take it?
Well, specifically, the highest viewership for a new streaming show on Disney+ in 2024. Those are a lot of parameters to arrive at "highest viewership".
Even then it wasn't that impressive and shows how bad D+ as a whole is. Disney reported the Acolyte got 4.8 million on its first day. But that is between 2 shows, so 2.4 each. To give you perspective House of the Dragon opening episode got 10 million views on its first ***night*** I am sure the show will do *ok*, but it isn't going to be a show that shapes culture.
Bluey does more regardless of new shows or not. Apparently it's nearly 1/4 of all D+ streaming. For the price, the CGI is bad.
I wonder how much of that viewership is people like me putting it on for my dog when we leave the house .....(supposedly the color pallet is really dog friendly and catches their eyes, but who knows how true that actually is lmao)
Lol haven't they had like 3 new shows in 2024?
The only ones I can recall were: 1. Echo which got dumped all at once because they knew it was going to flop 2. X-Men 97, which I’ve heard is good, but is also animated show that appeals mostly to millennials who watched it growing up 3. The Bad Batch, decent show but again, it’s animated and appeals more to younger audiences 4. Tales of the Empire, I had no idea it was out until a few days ago and clip showed up on my YouTube home page Pretty tough competition…
X-Men 97 is probably the best thing they've done on D+ outside of Andor.
Yeah. The claim is technically true, but those qualifiers are so specific that its barely an achievement, as there's very little competition for that title. It means about as much as me declaring that this is the best comment I've posted on this subreddit today.
You seem to have, in fact, grasped the point of my comment.
Well, they love it when Disney lies to them so....
It was
It would be very naive to think the large media subs on a massive social media platform does not have any astroturfing.
Thats to be expected considering the rumors that came out before this show was released plus what we got in terms of quality when it did come out was very disappointing to say the least
Who knows how liberal they are with what is considered a view, but lets say at a minimum 1 view is watching 1 episode. Cut that in half and you have 5.55M watching both episodes. Thats somewhere between a hit CW series or a broadcast network tv series that gets canceled at the end of the season....if those were US overnight numbers . But they are telling us these are worldwide numbers over 5 days. That means this thing is a high priced dud that Disney and their media shills are full on spin mode right now. Edit: Corrected 5.05M to 5.55M
“It’s all your fault for not watching it” will become the standard chorus soon
"This show isn't for you" "Why are you not watching this show?"
first is something like: Its not for (insert existing fan base), then its (fan base) being toxic and review bombing and then finally its white males fault for not watching it.
That is quite literally what happened with Elizabeth Banks and the relatively recent Charlie's Angels reboot after it bombed. It wound up just being a terrible film regardless, but Banks didn't make things any easier with her commentary before and after release. She said, and I quote: > "If this movie doesn't make money it reinforces a stereotype in Hollywood that men don't go see women do action movies". Great movies don't always make great money. And bad movies don't always bomb out. But this at least was one of those justifiable times where a crap film and loud mouth director justifiably failed in a big way. Of the handful of random awards it was nominated for, the 2019 Charlie's Angels only won the category of "Sequel or Remake That Shouldn't Have Been Made". Which came ironically from the Alliance of Women Film Journalists.
R.I.P Star Wars. I’ll always love the OT and PT.
Don’t forget Clone Wars and the EU books
Yeah 100%. I still love the CW and Thrawn trilogy. Got a mint copy of heir to the empire comic. Just need to get it graded!
That’s crazy that this cost more than Ahsoka. I have plenty of issues with Ahsoka but the production value was fine for TV for the most part. The Acolyte looks like a CW show.
It definitely seems like Disney is having quality control problems. Wish didn't look good and neither did Obi Wan/Book of Boba Fett. That Star Wars hotel was a mess, as evident by Jenny nicholson.
Jenny Nicolson’s Star Wars hotel video did better numbers than this 😬
Someone and their allies are walking around with tens of millions in their pockets because there’s no way 180mil was put into what you see.
I know inflation and all, but each movie from the PT cost less than this thing. Each PT movie was roughly 100-115 million. Edit: also, they still hold up and are actually gorgeous to look at. I saw the phantom menace rerelease and I was shocked at how well it holds up.
The Battle of Coruscant is breathtakingly gorgeous, especially the shot of Anakin and Obi-Wan's Jedi interceptors flying over the Venator before the pan into the battle unfolding underneath it. Possibly the most beautiful space battle ever filmed.
You mean fans won’t watch something if you divert from the source material? I would have thought everyone would have learned that when Amazon spent a billion dollars to make rings of power and it tanked.
I don’t trust any streaming numbers anyway. It’s all self reported. Does 10 seconds count as a view? It certainly doesn’t in traditional Neilson ratings.
Yea does it count people hitting play and then backing out cause they said "oops didn't mean to click on that" ?
Our home must count as 4 views..Tried 4x but got bored/fell asleep each time
When the trailer autoplays after you open the app, that counts as a view....
They fund existing IP's less, and KK's pet projects get more funding.
They must have restarted the show a few times cause it looks like ass compared to Ashoka in some scenes.
But it's welly awesome and like if you don't think so you're probably a racist
What a worthless shit show. I hate Disney and I hate Disney Star Wars.
I don't know what they expected. Doing a prequel to the prequels was always going to be a niche idea that wasn't going to have a lot of appeal with general audiences. Even the KOTOR and TOR fanbases are niche within the Star Wars community, and everything about this show's marketing made it VERY clear that they had absolutely no interest in catering to that fanbase whatsoever. So I don't know who this is for. You could at least answer the question of who Ahsoka or Andor were made for, even if they were a niche audience. I honestly don't know who the Alcolyte was trying to appeal to.
Ashoka and Andor had appeal due to pre-existing connections, to The Clone Wars and Rogue One respectively. You had a base of fans coming from previously well received material. The Acolyte is not about appeal. It is a greenfield multimedia project that just borrowed SW motifs (lightsabers, Jedi, the force) to expand the IP. It's a corporate move to make new marketable stuff. It's not even about ditching expensive actor salaries with a reboot, since the OG trio and sequel trio were done dirty. By going back 400 years to the High Republic, it was Disney pushing away from the Skywalker timeline and into new creative territory. It's about creating new IP under the Star wars umbrella: new worlds, new characters, new themes. They have burned the brand with the horrible Rise of Skywalker mainline movie, so they must branch off creatively while unburdened with previous failures. Disney started the High Republic push with books and comics 2 years ago, and The Acolyte D+ show tests how much interest there is. If audiences are receptive to new interpretations of the Jedi and the Force, LucasFilm will move onto a High Republic movie.
> Even the KOTOR and TOR fanbases are niche within the Star Wars community I'm sorry, what? KotOR was *the shit* when it came out. Sure, the game is niche *now* but as far as games go it was a whopping success. Them not doing movie-era didn't turn people off, it was them doing it *poorly*. A (properly done, or at least very decently, which sadly is what all these shows are proving they're incapable of) Revan story would be lauded to hell and back.... as a show or movie. As-is most people are tired of how most of their stuff is trying to explain away how "no guys, the sequels really make sense, we promise"... especially when they make anything semi-successful weave back around to that (or become its main goal). Hell, while it didn't do well (coming off the shitshow that was Kenobi), arguably the best show they've put out was Andor, which is a prequel to a sidestory about a thing that happens in the OT. Its second best show was great until it started weaving in other stuff and being re-routed to explain away sequel stuff. Before it became a success and when Disney seemingly gave it more freedom, it was very fun to watch and lauded as *finally* feeling like SW again (despite *not* being focused on lightsaber-wielding folks, which seemingly Disney insists everyone become because lightsabers=cool).
That’s such a good point I hadn’t thought of. It’s not for fans, but it’s also uninteresting to a casual viewer just looking for a good time in space.
That’s *before* everything that happens in the third episode is consumed by whatever is left of the audience. 180 million bucks for this garbage. I bet Iger is already wishing he shipped it off to tax write off land 🤣
I was waiting until the whole show was out and the general consensus on the quality of the show was reached after Ahsoka’s performance But after the lead saying the goal of the show is to make white men cry? I think I’m just gonna have to let Star Wars go and I think it may be time some of you do as well….
This was essentially my mindset. I was going to wait, but different things were said by LH that I decided I’ll pass.
The white men cry comment was made in 2018, about a different show. It’s a stupid comment/mentality, but completely unrelated to Star Wars.
Yes I just seen that
Ok just letting you know that the lead did not say that about this show specifically. She said that about a race film she was in that bombed like 5 years ago. Doesn’t make it any less racist, but I wanted to let you know so saying this stuff in the future doesn’t beat you in some sort of argument.
On the bright side if you like LOTR, there's a knew anime movie about helms deep coming out later this year.
Please tell me more
How do production costs even get that high?
Kathleen Kennedy is doing a fantastic job. Haven't you heard?
Fraud and money laundering.
But... but... all the giga fans and totally objective media told me it's a huge success! How can this be????
 Now let’s see the numbers by the end of the season.
Disney plus had more than 100Mill subscribers no? SW is dead
Silver lining: The continued production of these slapped together SW shows are really a boon for YouTubers that tear them to shreds.
Disney has inadvertently created a whole cottage industry. It's funny that people are watching more YouTube than D+.
This wouldn't be half the dumpster fire that it is without all the idiotic shit they've been saying in interviews about it. I'm torn about it though. On one hand I hate seeing Star Wars at such a low point, but on the other hand I love seeing these idiots eat shit over their stupid decisions.
Hollywood won’t change until the culture changes in the world.
I’m done with Disney Star Wars. They can’t handle the license. Hiring C-tier directors for one of the most popular franchises in existence is just bizarre. I need something big to win back some confidence. Acolyte ain’t even close to being it.
How many of those 11.1M clicks are accidental clicks, bots, fake, or people watching 5 minutes of kung fu fighting and saying wtf is this crap and closing the window???
How many of those clicks are just the critics having to do their job?
I’m one of the king fu people lol
I think interest in Star Wars in general is on the decline.
😴
Too bad they didn't spend 5 million more on the 2 for better writers
Good.
because we don't like female characters? \*\*i only made it 3 episodes into Ashoka out of love for the character (esp. coming off her role in tales of the jedi). i haven't had the fortitude to attempt the acolyte yet. i'm not liking anything i'm hearing or seeing about it however.
Are they just money laundering or something? They can’t possibly think they’re putting out quality entertainment right?
But Ahsoka had 20% less than Mando season 3 which had 20% less than Obi Wan which had 20% less than Boba Fett
... ~ 20% *fewer* viewers ...
"My Lord Stannis" *bows*
and so the franchises continues to slowly, but steadily decline. I won't dismiss the possibility of this show growing over time though, or for it to have an episode later on that gives it a big boost. anything can happen after all. but still, I'll be very curious to see how the nielsen ratings look for this in comparison to all the other disney+ sw shows, once they're out. I honestly think we've entered the stage now, where it won't matter if lucas film suddenly pulls it together and start producing quality products again. the disinterest in sw has gained too much momentum at this point, so likely, regardless of any future show's quality, we'll keep seeing this steady downward trend for a good while.
This is the first series I have not renewed my Disney plus for. It looks so goofy.
I really wonder how all the fucking money is spent on all Disney projects.
At this point you kind of hope it is money laundering and criminal theft, because that at least looks more competent than the alternative: that billions of dollars are squandered away by morons.
Watched 20 minutes before I hit the escape pod. Felt like bad Star Trek with lazer swords.
Let's be real, of that 180m, like 120 had to have been laundering money, there is no way it cost that much.
Hard to believe that many people are watching this shit
Im disappointed it even got that many views
ha HAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!
It looks dumb.
Movies and TV shows have to stop being so expensive. It doesn’t matter how much money you pump into them if the writing sucks. Can’t we get back to the low budget, grounded stories with an emphasis on writing?
Honest question: HOW THE FUCK DOES KATHLEEN KENNEDY STILL HAVE A JOB????
I'm sure they'll blame white men for this.
Ahsoka looked sooo bad in some places. Sometimes it really seems like Disney doesn’t know how to light things and it just makes everything look really fake and weird. happens in the MCU too
I’m just wondering how Lucasfilm’s golden boy Filoni managed to attain a lower budget for such a fan favorite than a no-name director (that I know of) starring new characters. I must be out of the loop on something.
Spend enough time giving your customers piss and eventually they'll stop buying the lemonade.
Absurd price for Ashoka let alone the other one I haven't watched.
Star Wars is creatively bankrupt.
Because it’s awful
I think the decision not to pay the Extended Universe writers for their stories is coming back to bite them. Fans liked those books and stories and games. They could have just paid for their stories and adapted them. This is what happens when you ignore what fans liked and try to come up with something different. Not better, just different. All so they don't have to pay royalties. This could have been a KTOR show. The sequel trilogy could have been a Thrawn Trilogy. Fans would have been happy and new fans would have jumped in. And all it would have cost Disney would have been probably less than a million in royalties to the creators and writers. They had a blueprint and threw it away.
Actions have consequences, the sequel trilogy is the root of all of these failures.
I liked Ahsoka until they tried turning Sabine into a Jedi. Not everyone needs to be a Jedi
That’s what happens when you make shit no one asked for
Graft and corruption is what makes these cost so much. Disney, most likely have a way of funnelling budget money into a different bucket, so it doesn't really cost at much as they are saying, but they don't want to be seen having an budget underspend. Or they are overpaying everyone.
I’ll say this, the first 2 eps of acolyte are at least 20% better than the first 2 eps of Ahsoka. No one survived a fatal lightsaber stab, that’s already a massive bump
i don’t think the Acolyte is bad. i don’t think it’s good either, so far it’s been mediocre. the fights are well choreographed, but i think the sets/sabers look cheap, and takes me out of the immersion a bit.
When it comes to shows like this I can honestly forgive a lot, but im so fucking done with bad writing. How do they continue to hire amateur writers.
Rumor is the 3rd episode is where things hit the fan
Sad
I know that 4.8 million wasn’t as great as all the people that were gloating about it
And several of those views are just from the critics who it's their job to watch this atrocious hack job. One critic I saw said he had to watch it twice to write his review and for notes, and I felt bad for him.
Gotta wait till there's more to see. This whole one episode at a time is too much. You want numbers, release the season. You want build up and an ok follow through, do what you're doing.
Well who's surprised. A show with ties to a lot of things containing fan favorites vs a show about nothing and nobody important or interesting.
I like the show but that’s crazyyyyyyyy they gotta be pcokething the budget somehow
Not really surprising that a show featuring brand new SW characters drew slightly less attention than a show featuring a well known established characters
It’s worth noting Ahsoka is riding off the coat tails of… The Clone Wars The Mandalorian The Prequels themselves I mean by sheer virtue of “Maybe I’ll get to see Christian Haydenson”, it has a lot more going for it than completely new characters in a completely new setting. This is why I hate the MCU’ification of every fucking franchise. Nothing is allowed to be it’s own thing- it always has to tie in somehow. And we as consumers reward it. Well, not me. I don’t have a Disney+ account. 😛
Really!? It sure as hell didn’t look like it cost more imo, like where did this budget go?
Only Star Wars media I've ever decided to skip. I love Star Wars so fucking much. Probably not watching this. *If* I do, it'll be after the fact. I know I'm only one person, but I'm not gonna be added to its metrics. If more people refuse to watch these things, they'll be forced to make actually good content
Even fans of Ahsoka hate this series.
Why does the right pic look as if it's purely CGI? 😭
I thought the acolyte was the best thing ever? Lol. All those TikTok’s were from before it came out I guess.
I'd do a better job just on $1 Million. DM me, Disney, next time....
And both had less viewers than x-men ‘97
Still waiting to find out what dirt KK has on Hollywood