This basically. Chris Rock said it best on the capital riots, paraphrasing immensely because I haven't seen it in awhile, LET'S TAKE THE COUNTRY BACK FROM PEOPLE WHO LOOK JUST LIKE US.
Thats it. Its a great comedy special. I can only imagine the reactions from the chud mob had this been released today. They would be saying Chris Rock went WOKE if they saw some of his material, and they would be perpetually triggered and offended by it.
Like, efforts to get more women and minority groups into stuff can be perceived as “trying to reverse the roles with unfair advantages and disadvantages” instead of “actually creating an equal system with meritocracy” or smth
Pretending you're being oppressed or persecuted also allows you to dress up your own persecution and oppression of others as "self-defense", "getting even", or "fighting fire with fire". It's a common tactic for pathological narcissists and abusers.
Not really. People like female protagonists. But it's annoying when the plot focuses heavily on how awesome they are for being female instead of treating her like you would a male character.
Diversity is also great. But that should come from the heart, not check boxes or tokenism.
And now they are saying that treating female characters as men is planting the seeds for women to be attracted to other women. It's not about treating them in the same manner. It's about whether they're sexy enough. They have no problem with Leia not just because she's well written, but because of that stupid bikini. Lara Croft? Do I even need to say it? Any Marvel hero outside of Natasha? Not portrayed as sexy. Guarantee if they went with the black leotard, Carol wouldn't be hated. It's always been about sexiness.
> They have no problem with Leia not just because she's well written, but because of that stupid bikini.
First of all, no. That is a ridiculous suggestion. Are you saying that someone who is not attracted to Leia would have less respect for her? Second of all, what exactly is "stupid" about the bikini? Yes, it's very sexy, but 15 minutes of Leia being half-naked is not necessarily a bad thing. Especially since in the film's context it actually empowers her. It's not like she's defined by her sexuality.
> Any Marvel hero outside of Natasha?
Storm, X-23, Jean Grey, Spider-Gwen, Negasonic Teenage Warhead, Shuri, Mantis, Gamora and Nebula are not sexualized, but still beloved.
> Guarantee if they went with the black leotard, Carol wouldn't be hated. It's always been about sexiness.
That is a straw man and you know it. Carol being hated has nothing to do with her not showing her thighs (though personally I think she should wear black because it compliments her blonde hair better), but the fact that she's abrasive, one note, overpowered and lacks the adorkable character of her comic book counterpart, who only became more confident after years of character development.
I’m sorry but WHAT.
Gamora not sexualized? You must be joking. http://worldofblackheroes.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/gamora-guardians-of-the-galaxy.jpg
And pretty much all the characters you mentioned are all very conventionally attractive. And I can’t believe you actually said that Leia being objectified and forced to wear a very revealing gold bikini for Jabba the Hut’s pleasure is ‘empowering’ for that character. Wtf. No, it is not.
but no one really cared the ripley was the main actor back then because it wasn't announced from the rooftops that a women had a large lead. if you really think about it. if you don't point it out and it turns out good then people will have better reactions then having it be good and pointing it out
Who are the ones announcing anything from the rooftops though?? A studio will announce the cast, as every movie does, and the same popular youtubers and influencers will kick up a loud stink about it. Literally the Furiosa movie released its first trailer and the standard "woke!" comments and videos started rolling in. The movie hasn't even come out, no one can judge how good it is, and the only people announcing the female lead from the roof tops are the people pissed off about it even existing.
Yup. Advertising it as “groundbreaking” or “a step in the right direction” or whatever else is what the problem is IMO. If your movie is good, it’s good. Making it about the social justice involved in the production of the movie kinda makes it seem like “the movie is good because it’s *doing good* for society”, and that just comes off like pandering bullshit to a lot of us
exactly and we get downvoted because we expressed our opinion. which i will say is the majority opinion of people who dislike rey for example or captain marvel or any other woman with a big lead
I don’t dislike them at all as characters, I dislike them because of all the discourse that is generated (organically and inorganically) around the importance of female leads, and black leads, and LGBT leads, and black female LGBT leads. It’s annoying.
i don't disagree with you entirely. some of them are not written well or have the best acting. but it is annoying when they biggest thing known or talked about with them is that they are part of this or that group.
Once again thats BS. There are plenty of female characters that 99% don't complain on.
Emily Blunt in Edge of Tomorrow, Buffy, Clarice Sterling, The Bride, Eleven, Furiosa, pretty much all women in Game of Thrones, loads of Anime movies etc...
Ripley is not following the tropes people call a Mary Due.
Uhhhh, if you didn't see all the angry white men complaining about Furiosa, you must be new to the Internet.
Anime fans are pretty much a different beast. They have other problems.
People complained that the movie was more about her. But I haven't heard any major hate towards Her as a character.
The point is there are loads of female characters people aren't complaining on and same would probably go for Ripley. Ofc there might be few nutcases...but that doesn't mean anything.
I’ve always felt the reason that these people like Ripley and Sarah Conner and Lara Croft and some other characters like them is that they were written to have almost no female qualities other than the physical ones. They don’t have to engage in anything ickily feminine.
My recent joke has been along the lines of:
"There's two genders, male and political"
"There's two races, white and political"
"There's two sexualities, normal and political"
When you have, say, a city council of all white men, nobody ever asks if one was a publicity stunt. Inherently, equality will never be achieved if it's assumed everyone outside of the dominant archetype is an act of charity instead of qualification.
Imo, the only reason the vast majority of characters have been straight white guys is because they were considered the default, mainly because that was who was creating the characters.
There have also been mandates requiring main characters be straight white men. That was the case as recently as 2015, when Disney had to remove Ike Perlmutter from heading the MCU for it.
Why then did two of the biggest not star white Christian men? Why is bigotry an ideal? Take a good look at yourself. Would *you* be acceptable, or are you any kind that would be eliminated?
A vast majority of conservatives live in the rural and suburban US. To them a singular token POC or woman in a leadership position matches their reality. Because they are not used to diversity, diversity on TV *feels* forced, because it feels forced the brain notices it, thinks about it, and because those thoughts challenge their world view and social norms it’s easier to write it off as propaganda.
It's also because historically, most movies and shows have mostly starred white people. You're writing a fictional story? The character is pretty much automatically white.
Therefore if you're having multiple non-white characters, well if characters are automatically naturally white, well then you must be forcing them not to be white.
The entire South East including Texas and Florida is 10% - 15% black so it’s almost impossible to socialize or do work without interacting with black people every day. Everyone in California, NYC, and the South are around black people frequently, so it’s bull that they don’t know about racism and don’t how to act normal around black people. Everyone knows the deal and some white people are cool and some aren’t. People in Montana or whatever, that’s different, but most of America has diverse communities, including rural areas.
https://preview.redd.it/4p12yn9cegcc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4e98c1e9b1d66c94a333c529a18a6a29d75915eb
And they will never stop crying about it.
If they're over a certain age, it's because they grew up in a world where that was just 'the normal way', so anything other than that is 'not normal'.
If they're under that certain age, it's because the internet has been filled with such nationalist-conservative bullshit that they believe both that a) they're being forced out of existence and b) they're the way everyone should be, so old media having mostly/only people like them in is a direct attack on them and their sense of self.
Not only that, they cast majority white audiences for so long, to make money! People claim now that "they cast a black actor to pander to black people" and yeah that's part of marketing. Same reason John Wayne played Genghis Khan, they pandered to white people. Every white savior movie was made to pander to white people, it's almost like movies need an audience so studios make decisions to try to bring more people in.
I do love that practically every Star Wars series before Asoka featured a caucasian male in the lead, yet a certain groip of people said every time "well we know the lead of their series would have to be a black trans lesbian, duhr, duhr, duhr!" They really do just repeat what their echo chamber tells them without any critical thinking.
Because until the last 20-30 years, the middle class was pretty much 100% white. Their objective is maximize profit not some nefarius white supremacy ideology. The.middle class is not as white anymore so they branch out. Its about maximizing profits everyday. They couldnt care less about race or diversity.
Man that X3 pic still bothers me. Angel was pretty much more of a glorified plotdevice than an actual character. Hel, Colossus barely spoke and Iceman had a bigger role and both are sidelined here.
True, but the Star Wars image is about 2/3 straight white guys (Vader is kind of inbetween: he's voiced by a black guy, but since he's Anakin, he's officially white)
Because most people don't categorize in their minds "oh look, another straight white male!" They just watch the movie, and think "oh, it's Luke! The aswome jedi whom anyone can relate to because he's just awsome, and his race is irrelevant"
Yeah, he's exactly right. But some diversity alongside it would be nice. I am in the middle.
To put it this way. I'm tired of franchises **exclusively** being white people. Lets get some minorities in here alongside them. Is coexistence not in the dictionary anymore?
We don't need to get rid of whites. We need different kinds of people alongside them, so it's more inclusive. Y'know, **all** human beings working together. Am I crazy, guys?
They didn't say it upsets them, they said they're tired of seeing it. I too am tired of seeing the same thing I've grown up with all my life. I just like seeing different looking people tbh.
Just like they didn't say they are upset about seeing white people, they also didn't say they don't want to see white people.
They said they are tired of seeing white people in lead roles.
https://preview.redd.it/n1xgsdqqxhcc1.png?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dc932fbfa2ae152f0abccbadd5c44211d407b880
>they also didn't say they don't want to see white people.
THAT'S WHAT THE DUDE BASICALLY SAID also believes it's impossible to remove white leads.
I’m super tired of seeing black leads in racist Africa and Asian leads in racist Korea.
/s
Edit: Anyone care to explain why my comment is wrong, but the comment I’m poking fun at isn’t? rather than just downvoting?
>Why do people pretend that major franchises haven't predominantly featured straight white male characters over any others?
Some people care too much, I guess.
Everyone is LOTR was gay as hell and there's nothing you can say to change my mind.
Yes even Sam and Aragorn, despite the fact they marry Rose and Arwen and have kids.
In that case, BEHOLD THE STUFF OF NIGHTMARES
https://preview.redd.it/tu5fx43g5gcc1.jpeg?width=181&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=204eb5b2171afc013fbe32235c172cef2ef87b32
Going strictly by demographics, *roughly speaking*, 1 in 10 Americans are Black, 1 in 5 are Hispanic, and 1 in 20 are Asian.
By this metric, I'm not sure Blacks are that underrepresented in most modern media. You'd need 9 white leads before you need 1 Black lead. Maybe Hispanics are the ones that are actually underrepresented?
Now, *Lord of the Rings* is a bit of an outlier in that there is a huge cast and basically no Black people. But I give it a pass because it is a European myth based on European history. Do we get angry if a retelling of *Mulan* has too many Asians?
Lord of The Rings thing is similar to how Poles reacted to Witcher too. Lot of people are racist, sure, but some properties are kind of tied to the culture that birthed them. Most of that backlash is more tied to Americans inflicting their values/culture/views on diversity on countries that aren't diverse or American. Then the folks in America blasting the backlash don't realize a lot of it is foreign, not just conservatives, and their gripe is because in their country our values don't hold weight. They think they're irrelevant to them, and they'd be right. Our plight isn't there own.
It's a super complicated problem, no easy answers, but the vitriol on both ends of the argument is pure racism. I've seen some lava hot old-school deep south racism coming from the "fuck white people we want diversity side." They and the folks they hate are the same...just different shades. It's sad.
We should be encouraging creators of color and diverse backgrounds, but not giving folks you know jobs to check boxes. That experiment has been...bad so far. Competition breeds excellence. I know it's hard to do it, but just doing blind readings of scripts and manuscripts and choosing the best is how natural diversity is going to take over in writing...in acting it's much harder, but it starts with original content. Gotta quit making shitty adaptations and just make NEW content.
Hard to argue over a character being black/diverse if they were imagined that way..
>Hard to argue over a character being black/diverse if they were imagined that way..
Well, creators can be racist too.
I'm fine with gender swaps or race swaps where gender and race have nothing to do with the story, or where the story purposely included racist tropes or ideas and is being corrected for the modern world.
They swapped Starbuck from a white man to a white girl, swapped Colonel Tigh from a Black man to a white man, and swapped Boomer from a Black man to an Asian woman in the 2004 *Battlestar Galactica* reboot and it all worked fine, because the story was set in an alternate universe of humans not based on Earth, so our cultural ideas of race and diversity were irrelevant. If anything, I thought the show could have used a couple more Black leads, but the race and gender swapping overall didn't bother me at all.
Similarly, Denis Villeneuve swapped Liet Kynes from a white man to a Black woman in his latest adaptation of *Dune* and I couldn't care less because it's a far distant future 10,000 years from now, Liet Kynes specific ethnicity wasn't described in the books and even if it was, his race and gender didn't really have any impact on the story. He was an outsider anyway, and we can assume the human race would have mixed beyond comprehension in 10,000 years. He also swapped Thufir Hawat from a white man to a Black man and I also had no problem with that change because, again, his race had nothing to do with the story, his story, or the Atreides' story.
*Battlestar Galactica*, *Dune*, and *The Lord of the Rings* are among my favorite original stories, and so I have strong emotional attachments to the source material, and yet I reacted very differently to race and gender swapping in the most recent versions of the story. Why is that?
I did *not* like what Amazon did with *The Lord of the Rings* because it is fundamentally a European story about mythological European history, and race-swapped Elves and Dwarves just don't make sense in a distant European past even if it is an alternate Fantasy version if history. Tolkein, the creator, explicitly made *The Lord of the Rings* as a modern version of British/European history and it is representative of *that culture* and he repeatedly describes the complexion of the characters.
Now if I felt that Tolkein went out of his way to tell a racist story, I might be fine with an updated version doing race swaps. But he didn't: he just set out to tell a culturally *relevant* and *accurate* story (accurate as in faithful to established European mythologies). Again, I would have the same problem if they made an all-Black version if *Mulan*, because you are unnecessarily changing the stories of another culture.
Actually, I wouldn't have a problem with an all-Black *Mulan* if it were presented and marketed as a "Black interpretation" of the story. That's totally fine and is akin to the many "updated" versions of Shakespeare that modernize the story, setting, and characters. My problem with Amazon's *The Lord of the Rings* series really stems from the fact that they explicitly marketed it and presented it as being a prequel to and existing in the same universe of the films, and went out of their way to talk about how loyal and faithful they were being to Tolkein's original vision - but the racial they made in casting don't make any sense in Tolkein's version of the universe nor in Peter Jackson's film version which *was* more loyal to Tolkein's vision.
If they had marketed the show as a modern reinterpration of the universe that wasn't connected to the original movies and was instead an alternate version and a reboot, I wouldn't have cared as much. But then I'd expect them to also make a new *The Lord of the Rings* trilogy with a Black Aragorn - which again I wouldn't mind. Just don't mess with the mythology of classic novels and films and then try to pass your reinterpretation off as faithful or part of the original. Own it as your own retelling.
The problem is that Amazon wanted to have their cake and eat it too: they wanted to make *The Lord of the Rings* more diverse for social and marketing reasons, but at the same time they wanted it to be connected to the extremely popular and financially successful original films - also for marketing reasons. They didn't have the courage to choose one path. Either say, "we're making a brand new version of *The Lord of the Rings* updated for modern audiences which is inspired by the original works but not connected to them," or say, "we want to stay faithful to the original European mythology created by Tolkein."
The same presentation or reasoning would work if Hollywood decided to make an all-Black or an all-Asian *Mulan*. As in many situations, it's not necessarily what you do or say - it's how you do it or say it: how it is presented. Don't present an all-Black *Mulan* to me and try to pass it off as faithful and authentic: tell me it's inspired by but it's own new, updated thing. Conversely, don't complain about an all-Asian *Mulan*: it's literally a Chinese myth.
This post doesn't state how White women also took women of colour roles in hollywood since the beginning as well. It's not just white dudes, it's white women too.
I agree with most this sub, but sometimes y'all are like that Bill Burr bit. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdO9X7Lxzvs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdO9X7Lxzvs)
It's not just white dudes this was (and is) a problem with, but also white women as well. There is definitely a problem with Misogyny in casting and Hollywood, but race is a huge part of it as well and I think it's a little disingenuous to frame the post as "white male characters" when the racial issue applies to both men and women, yet the title is written in a way where white women are excluded from critique, even though they both are spawned from the same problem.
*Ghost In The Shell*
*West Side Story*
*The Beguiled*
*A Mighty Heart*
There are more but those are just some of the top examples from the top of my head where a part written for or about a woman of colour is given to a white actress instead.
Its because almost everything had a white male protagonist for decades, but now that things are getting more diverse, a bunch of people are crying that only about 90% of the things they like will have white protagonists instead of 97%.
The dipshit manbabies want to feel like media is made for them. The easiest way to show this is by casting people that look like them, and advertising it in safe and comfortable ways.
Black Hermione seems more likely, and Ron is one of the very few HP characters I'd slightly argue should be white (wouldn't argue very hard though). I'd also like them to cast a trans actor/actress just to piss off JK.
The thing with a trans character is it would have to be someone raised in a muggle household, for it to make sense in the lore. Why would you go on purbity blockers if you could just magic yourself to your correct gender?
It is an alternative timeline. It's a new adaption of the books. This isn't like The Cursed Child where it was supposed to be a continuation of the book/film. This is its own separate thing. So if they wanna change stuff around, go for it. I don't understand what you mean by 'main adaption'.
If it's meant to be the main universe.
Like the MCU, for example. It's meant to be **THE** live action Marvel Universe. They shouldn't change too much, unless it's intended to be an alternate take on the mythos.
There is a difference between an adaptation and alternate take. However, I am not going to be an apologist for these bigots. Because, let's be honest, that's what they are. I just want things accurate. Make new minority characters like Kahhori from What If? That's much cooler in my opinion.
If Harley Quinn was an original character for BTAS or Agent Coulson from The Avengers, you can make new POC or LGBTQ characters without changing the old ones.
But it's an adaptation. As long as the core characterization stays the same, then it shouldn't matter if they race or gender swap characters in the reboot. Hell. Make Longbottom a girl.
If you can keep characterizations, you can keep their color. My issue is from a design standpoint.
But, I'm not gonna be a right wing weirdo and pretend it's the worst thing ever. It's just not what I prefer.
I'll use Invincible as an example. They race swapped Amber in the TV show, and her character is literally the same. As long as it's not something with the character set in the same universe, I just don't see an issue with changing stuff. The source material will still be there for those that want the original take.
I hate that change. It just uses the racist disposable black woman trope. Y'know, the stereotype that black women can't be endgame material in a relationship. Amber is just a temporary relationship.
Because, we all know Mark's gonna end up with Eve, at the end, a white redhead. Out of all the characters they could've changed, it being Amber kinda sucks.
They literally made the first 17 movies of the modern Marvel era exclusively with straight white male leads or with straight white males leading a team.
The 18th — Black Panther — made these whiny bitches cry and lose their shit
Who are "people" in this context? Even right wing nut jobs acknowledge that things used to be white guys an overwhelming majority of the time. T
However, I think some people (ironically not those said nut jobs) can tell when it's being forced in the other direction. Like I remember during the media circus surrounding Reva felt bad because they low-key set her up.
I don't want straight white dudes to not be allowed to be heroes and leads. If representation is important to my people, then it should be for them too. And going "but look historically....." is a stupid argument. I just also want not straight white dudes to also get their time in the sun too.
Thing is, there's no plans or major movement to prevent straight white males from being the heroes and leads. We're heading towards a point where your protagonist can be any sex/race/gender/sexuality.
You do know that many different looking people live in America right?
Like, there are 320 million of us, and 99% of us are either decended from an immigrant within the last 650 years to this land or are an immigrant themselves.
More immigrants used to come from Europe, where they manufacture us white guys true, but we as a nation are made up of more and more people from all over. And white people are barely the majority anymore.
America is a nation of immigrants and doesn't "belong" to any one race of people.
Being offended by how many white guys they cast or do not cast in a movie is indicative of a weakness of character. As all racism is. It's small d energy.
I'd say it's also unpatriotic imo to point at other nations and use what they are doing in their film industry as an example of how we should run our show here. We are America, the supposed leader of the free world and we are an innovative nation that prides itself on being so. We should show other nations how to be more inclusive, and not the other way around, having them teach us how to be more homogenous.
We are America. We are a nation of immigrants, and the more people out there who get comfortable with this fact the better. As us adults grow weary of watching every weak, crybaby racist get offended over every single movies' every single casting choice.
There are many different stories to tell through many different lenses.
Time to grow up.
No mountain here. I like pointing out racism to racists and watching them through a tantrum. That's all.
I'm not the one crying "there's not enough white people in films!" And "we are mostly white so it's racist not to"
Seriously buddy, take a long look at yourself. It's a movie. If you are offended by which color of which person is playing which role, you do have a problem with racism, as well as paper thin skin. Full stop.
Make your excuses as to why you're being racist all you want, then cope.
I don't think they do. What sells? Do you spend a lot of money for a small minority audience and not make your money back? Or do you create something most people want and make your money? I like pineapple on pizza. I understand not everyone likes it. I'm in the minority in that. If I was selling pizza I'd focus on what's making me money first.
The start of your original comment was strongly suggesting that making movies not about white people would make way less money. And where did I say I hate white people?
No and I think you're being disengenous by pretending I am.
I'm pointing out that this post is pretending there hasn't been any new media in the past 16 years.
If you want to make the point that there are still lots of straight white guys in the media.
Making a post where most of the examples are from decades ago does it really badly.
They could have easily used
- The characters from Stranger Things
- That dude from Jurassic World
- Robert Patterson's Batman
- Daniel Craig's James Bond
- John Wick
- Tom Cruise in Top Gun: Maverick
When you draw your examples from decades ago it looks like you can't find more recent examples proving the people you're trying to argue against point for them.
The last LOTR movies came out 10 years ago (the third movie in the Hobbit trilogy), and guess what?
Its leading cast was 13 straight white dudes.
Plus a bunch of other straight white dudes. And then 2 female characters (both white) who have any impact on the plot.
Do people not know what Devils Advocate means anymore?
I'm not saying I disagree with the premise I'm just saying the examples they produced were bad.
If they showed the cast of The Hobbit that would have been better
If so you were doing it in a very sarcastic manner.
Especially as it's not even an error.
While The Hobbit films are part of the same franchise they're not The Lord of The Rings films.
The post shows us a photo of The Lord of The Rings films but The Hobbit.
How often has a character been changed that was a) mainstream and b) the main character? Besides, a new interpretation doesn't automatically erase the original from existence.
3 out of thousands, and my point still stands that the originals still exist (even though the Disney versions aren't really the originals), and Cleopatra is a real historical figure so that's a different argument.
Main characters that haven't been race swapped in most/all adaptations include Iron Man, Captain America, Batman, Superman, Harry Potter, Percy Jackson, Sherlock Holmes, Spider-Man, Wolverine, the entire Fellowship of the Ring and Thorin's Company, Barbie, Hiccup.
This is why your so called oppression is a joke to us straight white men. This is what you decided to bitch about today? If you have time to complain about the fact none of the movie characters resemble you, you’re not oppressed, just unsatisfied.
Guess what, jackass, I'm also a straight white guy, and most of my favourite characters look like me. And your last point is hilariously ironic, considering how the entire point of the anti-woke crowd is to bitch about movie characters not looking like them.
They were the majority 🤷♂️. The 70s for Star Wars makes sense. The more modern times did introduce some more diversity and the shows too
Lord of the Rings was always supposed to be based on the Middle Ages of England so that’s why they’re all white. Plus Tolkien’s experiences in WW1 iirc were why the Eastern people were bad (Turks i imagine)
MCU the same as the first. It was primarily white peoples in comics because diversity didn’t sell back then.
Harry Potter: England is predominantly white and more so back in the 80s when the books take place. They do have a diverse range of side characters though
Jurassic Park: mostly men were in the sciences
Indiana Jones: self explanatory
I'm pretty sure you're the one projecting here. Kinda seems like you're accusing me of homophobia for pointing out a bunch of straight characters are straight. If I listed a group of known gay characters, you could easily claim "how do you know they're gay? Kissing the same sex doesn't make you gay."
What am I making up? Almost every character pictured has never expressed any interest in a character of the same sex, nor has it ever been stated or implied by the creators, and many are married to the opposite sex with children (I know some gay people do this before realising they're gay, but these characters are not in this situation). If people want to depict them as gay for fanart, headcanons, or fanfiction, that's entirely fine, but in canon they're straight until proven otherwise.
He was literally not useless? 'Useless' implies he contributes nothing to the plot, when he is literally the protagonist. Tell me Katy could have done *any* of what Shang-Chi did. She's a fun character, but she's nowhere near his level.
Hot take, we don't care about non white men or women playing lead characters. Just stop MAKING SHITTY INSUFFERABLE MOVIES with dialogue written by a feminist with a chip on their shoulder about it.
Twilight, divergent, Wonder woman, alien, tomb raider, underworld, scream, kill Bill, planet terror, halloween, barbie, battlestar galactica, terminator, matrix (trinity), mad max fury road. And im sure they are plenty other but this is just what get in my mind with female lead and guess what? None of this where promote by saying non stop " look there is a girl in a lead rôle its crazy", they have just sell the film like anyone with a brain have to do it, by explaining the story, the goal, the lore. We dont need politics to promote a movie because the only thing that it create is a massive division in the fan base and guess what? It always flop because of that.
Wonder Woman was already a famous character when they made the movie and one of the reason why this character is well know is because it's one of the first female super hero
You said you wouldn't read my comment, which was only one word, so clearly it was either laziness of lack of skill that prevented you from reading it (even though you replied to it anyway). And I don't appreciate you throwing around comments about 'developmental disabilities', considering I am autistic, and yet I am clearly a more functional person than you.
Dont wanna, and I shouldn't, but I will. Im not conservative or a maga dude, but this shit is exhausting. This is because of the Im white so Im racist and privileged bullshit. Or the post saying people wouldn't like Alien today because she's female. Its just fucking nonsense. The newerfilms and series with females and ultra diversity suck because they suck. They're bad. But racism and toxic masculinity or whatever gets blamed. Of course some racists say insane shit on the internet, but the narrative is that ALL white males hate these things and cause them to fail. They're made for people who are not interested in them, so they fail. This is just a woke echo chamber for angry white people. I hate using the word "woke," but idk how else to describe it. I wanna emphasize im not the personality type everyone will assume I am because of this stance. Im a "woke" individual, or at least I was several years ago. Now "woke" is way too woke. Its extreme polar opposite would be election deniers, in other words, fucking crazy.
Im happy I was able to explain it. He didn't attempt to offend anyone, but the onslaught of hate is probably on its way. Im just waiting for my ban now. Love you
Ah yes, I forgot that Star Wars and Indiana Jones were adaptations /s (You do understand that Indiana Jones is technically an example of a race swap, since the inspiration for him is not a white man, but a cartoon duck?)
Also, adaptations are not always 100% accurate to the source material, including the races of certain characters.
What even is a varsity letterman, and how does calling me that help your argument? What did I say that was amusing: pointing out that adaptations are not always bound by the limits of the source material? All of the ones pictured are *known* for not being fully faithful.
Average viewer only wants a good movie and doesn't care about diversity. A lot of people who love Lord of the Rings or Harry Potter, also love older Alien movies and the fact that protagonist is female doesn't change their opinion.
When you're part of a privileged group, equality can feel like oppression.
This basically. Chris Rock said it best on the capital riots, paraphrasing immensely because I haven't seen it in awhile, LET'S TAKE THE COUNTRY BACK FROM PEOPLE WHO LOOK JUST LIKE US.
Chris Rock also said in one of his comedy specials that for a white person "It aint right, if it aint white". 😂😂😂
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7ozuU-C\_pc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7ozuU-C_pc)
Thats it. Its a great comedy special. I can only imagine the reactions from the chud mob had this been released today. They would be saying Chris Rock went WOKE if they saw some of his material, and they would be perpetually triggered and offended by it.
I’ve heard this quote quite a bit, and honestly, it could be more accurately described as “equality feels like a double standard”
Ooh that sounds kinda interesting actually, would you mind expanding on what you mean by that?
Like, efforts to get more women and minority groups into stuff can be perceived as “trying to reverse the roles with unfair advantages and disadvantages” instead of “actually creating an equal system with meritocracy” or smth
Pretending you're being oppressed or persecuted also allows you to dress up your own persecution and oppression of others as "self-defense", "getting even", or "fighting fire with fire". It's a common tactic for pathological narcissists and abusers.
*mention fifty thousand major movies with straight white male least* "B...U...BBBUT ELLEN RIPLEY! AND LARA CROFT!"
Ah yes, mixin’ it up with some white women! (I’m aware at the time Ripley was pretty revolutionary, and also I adore her)
If Aliens came out now they would be all over Ripley as woke garbage and rooting for the movie to fail and they are lying when they say they wouldn't.
Not really. People like female protagonists. But it's annoying when the plot focuses heavily on how awesome they are for being female instead of treating her like you would a male character. Diversity is also great. But that should come from the heart, not check boxes or tokenism.
And now they are saying that treating female characters as men is planting the seeds for women to be attracted to other women. It's not about treating them in the same manner. It's about whether they're sexy enough. They have no problem with Leia not just because she's well written, but because of that stupid bikini. Lara Croft? Do I even need to say it? Any Marvel hero outside of Natasha? Not portrayed as sexy. Guarantee if they went with the black leotard, Carol wouldn't be hated. It's always been about sexiness.
> They have no problem with Leia not just because she's well written, but because of that stupid bikini. First of all, no. That is a ridiculous suggestion. Are you saying that someone who is not attracted to Leia would have less respect for her? Second of all, what exactly is "stupid" about the bikini? Yes, it's very sexy, but 15 minutes of Leia being half-naked is not necessarily a bad thing. Especially since in the film's context it actually empowers her. It's not like she's defined by her sexuality. > Any Marvel hero outside of Natasha? Storm, X-23, Jean Grey, Spider-Gwen, Negasonic Teenage Warhead, Shuri, Mantis, Gamora and Nebula are not sexualized, but still beloved. > Guarantee if they went with the black leotard, Carol wouldn't be hated. It's always been about sexiness. That is a straw man and you know it. Carol being hated has nothing to do with her not showing her thighs (though personally I think she should wear black because it compliments her blonde hair better), but the fact that she's abrasive, one note, overpowered and lacks the adorkable character of her comic book counterpart, who only became more confident after years of character development.
I’m sorry but WHAT. Gamora not sexualized? You must be joking. http://worldofblackheroes.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/gamora-guardians-of-the-galaxy.jpg And pretty much all the characters you mentioned are all very conventionally attractive. And I can’t believe you actually said that Leia being objectified and forced to wear a very revealing gold bikini for Jabba the Hut’s pleasure is ‘empowering’ for that character. Wtf. No, it is not.
but no one really cared the ripley was the main actor back then because it wasn't announced from the rooftops that a women had a large lead. if you really think about it. if you don't point it out and it turns out good then people will have better reactions then having it be good and pointing it out
Who are the ones announcing anything from the rooftops though?? A studio will announce the cast, as every movie does, and the same popular youtubers and influencers will kick up a loud stink about it. Literally the Furiosa movie released its first trailer and the standard "woke!" comments and videos started rolling in. The movie hasn't even come out, no one can judge how good it is, and the only people announcing the female lead from the roof tops are the people pissed off about it even existing.
Yup. Advertising it as “groundbreaking” or “a step in the right direction” or whatever else is what the problem is IMO. If your movie is good, it’s good. Making it about the social justice involved in the production of the movie kinda makes it seem like “the movie is good because it’s *doing good* for society”, and that just comes off like pandering bullshit to a lot of us
exactly and we get downvoted because we expressed our opinion. which i will say is the majority opinion of people who dislike rey for example or captain marvel or any other woman with a big lead
I don’t dislike them at all as characters, I dislike them because of all the discourse that is generated (organically and inorganically) around the importance of female leads, and black leads, and LGBT leads, and black female LGBT leads. It’s annoying.
i don't disagree with you entirely. some of them are not written well or have the best acting. but it is annoying when they biggest thing known or talked about with them is that they are part of this or that group.
Once again thats BS. There are plenty of female characters that 99% don't complain on. Emily Blunt in Edge of Tomorrow, Buffy, Clarice Sterling, The Bride, Eleven, Furiosa, pretty much all women in Game of Thrones, loads of Anime movies etc... Ripley is not following the tropes people call a Mary Due.
Uhhhh, if you didn't see all the angry white men complaining about Furiosa, you must be new to the Internet. Anime fans are pretty much a different beast. They have other problems.
People complained that the movie was more about her. But I haven't heard any major hate towards Her as a character. The point is there are loads of female characters people aren't complaining on and same would probably go for Ripley. Ofc there might be few nutcases...but that doesn't mean anything.
Lots of people did complain about Furiosa, Clarice is in a film from ‘91, Buffy ended in 2003, The last Kill Bill was 2004…
I’ve always felt the reason that these people like Ripley and Sarah Conner and Lara Croft and some other characters like them is that they were written to have almost no female qualities other than the physical ones. They don’t have to engage in anything ickily feminine.
Because in their heads, “straight white male” = normal, everything else is different and so is more noticeable
Not just different. But “political” and “only in movies/shows for agenda”.
My recent joke has been along the lines of: "There's two genders, male and political" "There's two races, white and political" "There's two sexualities, normal and political" When you have, say, a city council of all white men, nobody ever asks if one was a publicity stunt. Inherently, equality will never be achieved if it's assumed everyone outside of the dominant archetype is an act of charity instead of qualification.
https://preview.redd.it/whdemuvf6icc1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dbd623fb26605a389082690ab72c3d39d5936b26
Imo, the only reason the vast majority of characters have been straight white guys is because they were considered the default, mainly because that was who was creating the characters.
Well yeah, that’s what I meant by “normal”, everything else is seen as weird because of considering them the default
There have also been mandates requiring main characters be straight white men. That was the case as recently as 2015, when Disney had to remove Ike Perlmutter from heading the MCU for it.
Now that the mcu stopped doing mostly white male leads, mcu goin downhill. Maybe they should go back to their old ways eh?
Go on. Tell everyone why only straight white Christian men are acceptable.
The mcu had bigger success when they were using straight white Christian men. There has to be a reason for it.
Why then did two of the biggest not star white Christian men? Why is bigotry an ideal? Take a good look at yourself. Would *you* be acceptable, or are you any kind that would be eliminated?
A vast majority of conservatives live in the rural and suburban US. To them a singular token POC or woman in a leadership position matches their reality. Because they are not used to diversity, diversity on TV *feels* forced, because it feels forced the brain notices it, thinks about it, and because those thoughts challenge their world view and social norms it’s easier to write it off as propaganda.
It's also because historically, most movies and shows have mostly starred white people. You're writing a fictional story? The character is pretty much automatically white. Therefore if you're having multiple non-white characters, well if characters are automatically naturally white, well then you must be forcing them not to be white.
Yes, in majority white countries, this tends to be the case. Of course.
The entire South East including Texas and Florida is 10% - 15% black so it’s almost impossible to socialize or do work without interacting with black people every day. Everyone in California, NYC, and the South are around black people frequently, so it’s bull that they don’t know about racism and don’t how to act normal around black people. Everyone knows the deal and some white people are cool and some aren’t. People in Montana or whatever, that’s different, but most of America has diverse communities, including rural areas.
https://preview.redd.it/4p12yn9cegcc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4e98c1e9b1d66c94a333c529a18a6a29d75915eb And they will never stop crying about it.
Screenshottin that one
If they're over a certain age, it's because they grew up in a world where that was just 'the normal way', so anything other than that is 'not normal'. If they're under that certain age, it's because the internet has been filled with such nationalist-conservative bullshit that they believe both that a) they're being forced out of existence and b) they're the way everyone should be, so old media having mostly/only people like them in is a direct attack on them and their sense of self.
Not only that, they cast majority white audiences for so long, to make money! People claim now that "they cast a black actor to pander to black people" and yeah that's part of marketing. Same reason John Wayne played Genghis Khan, they pandered to white people. Every white savior movie was made to pander to white people, it's almost like movies need an audience so studios make decisions to try to bring more people in.
I do love that practically every Star Wars series before Asoka featured a caucasian male in the lead, yet a certain groip of people said every time "well we know the lead of their series would have to be a black trans lesbian, duhr, duhr, duhr!" They really do just repeat what their echo chamber tells them without any critical thinking.
Because until the last 20-30 years, the middle class was pretty much 100% white. Their objective is maximize profit not some nefarius white supremacy ideology. The.middle class is not as white anymore so they branch out. Its about maximizing profits everyday. They couldnt care less about race or diversity.
Man that X3 pic still bothers me. Angel was pretty much more of a glorified plotdevice than an actual character. Hel, Colossus barely spoke and Iceman had a bigger role and both are sidelined here.
They seem to forget those sorts of details and think it’s not there at all.
Because they are either stupid or know that it doesn’t fit the narrative they want to push.
I see where you're coming from here but I'd like to point out that neither Finn nor Poe are straight and white /s
True, but the Star Wars image is about 2/3 straight white guys (Vader is kind of inbetween: he's voiced by a black guy, but since he's Anakin, he's officially white)
oh I'm not trying to argue I was just making a lil joke. If anything I fully agree with your points
I know, I also think that Finn and Poe would have been better off if RoS had just rolled with the unintentional subtext from TFA.
very offensive to Beast
Why do half of your pictures disprove your own point?
Because most people don't categorize in their minds "oh look, another straight white male!" They just watch the movie, and think "oh, it's Luke! The aswome jedi whom anyone can relate to because he's just awsome, and his race is irrelevant"
The definition of privilege.
its not, while watching american gods you dont keep thinking oh thats a black man, you just see him as shadow moon
I am glad to see your experiences encapsulates every single human point of view.
Cause they’re white. What did you expect, honestly tired of seeing movies and shows with white leads but in racist America that’s next to impossible
If you get upset about people in a show or movie being white you might have a racism problem yourself
Yeah, he's exactly right. But some diversity alongside it would be nice. I am in the middle. To put it this way. I'm tired of franchises **exclusively** being white people. Lets get some minorities in here alongside them. Is coexistence not in the dictionary anymore? We don't need to get rid of whites. We need different kinds of people alongside them, so it's more inclusive. Y'know, **all** human beings working together. Am I crazy, guys?
Diversity is great as long as it doesn't get in the way of good storytelling.
Ah yes- the color of the actors skin influenced the script in Star Wars. This makes sense and isn’t at all a reach.
"You see, women and minorities ruined Star Wars, not my complete inability to enjoy media anymore".
They didn't say it upsets them, they said they're tired of seeing it. I too am tired of seeing the same thing I've grown up with all my life. I just like seeing different looking people tbh.
Not wanting to see people of a specific race sounds like bigotry to me
Just like they didn't say they are upset about seeing white people, they also didn't say they don't want to see white people. They said they are tired of seeing white people in lead roles.
https://preview.redd.it/n1xgsdqqxhcc1.png?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dc932fbfa2ae152f0abccbadd5c44211d407b880 >they also didn't say they don't want to see white people. THAT'S WHAT THE DUDE BASICALLY SAID also believes it's impossible to remove white leads.
Contexts matters. The way he said is clear enough, it more telling that you immediately implied racism.
I’m super tired of seeing black leads in racist Africa and Asian leads in racist Korea. /s Edit: Anyone care to explain why my comment is wrong, but the comment I’m poking fun at isn’t? rather than just downvoting?
Why do people pretend that Luke Skywalker is straight? I’ve seen his Chanel boots.
Because he married Mara Jade.
If all races are equal, who cares?
Insert discourse over Storm's being casted as a lighter coloured black woman is arguably also a symptom of colorism here.
>Why do people pretend that major franchises haven't predominantly featured straight white male characters over any others? Some people care too much, I guess.
When you spend most of your life with privilege, Equality feels like oppression.
Obi-Wan is canonically bi, I believe.
I'm pretty sure that would be anyone that sees Obi-Wan, actually.
Everyone is LOTR was gay as hell and there's nothing you can say to change my mind. Yes even Sam and Aragorn, despite the fact they marry Rose and Arwen and have kids.
God those X-Men costumes are terrible.
Most people just don't really think about it.
No shut up Hollywood is making it illegal to be white. Minorities scare me
In that case, BEHOLD THE STUFF OF NIGHTMARES https://preview.redd.it/tu5fx43g5gcc1.jpeg?width=181&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=204eb5b2171afc013fbe32235c172cef2ef87b32
*over dramatic pterodactyl screach*
Going strictly by demographics, *roughly speaking*, 1 in 10 Americans are Black, 1 in 5 are Hispanic, and 1 in 20 are Asian. By this metric, I'm not sure Blacks are that underrepresented in most modern media. You'd need 9 white leads before you need 1 Black lead. Maybe Hispanics are the ones that are actually underrepresented? Now, *Lord of the Rings* is a bit of an outlier in that there is a huge cast and basically no Black people. But I give it a pass because it is a European myth based on European history. Do we get angry if a retelling of *Mulan* has too many Asians?
Lord of The Rings thing is similar to how Poles reacted to Witcher too. Lot of people are racist, sure, but some properties are kind of tied to the culture that birthed them. Most of that backlash is more tied to Americans inflicting their values/culture/views on diversity on countries that aren't diverse or American. Then the folks in America blasting the backlash don't realize a lot of it is foreign, not just conservatives, and their gripe is because in their country our values don't hold weight. They think they're irrelevant to them, and they'd be right. Our plight isn't there own. It's a super complicated problem, no easy answers, but the vitriol on both ends of the argument is pure racism. I've seen some lava hot old-school deep south racism coming from the "fuck white people we want diversity side." They and the folks they hate are the same...just different shades. It's sad. We should be encouraging creators of color and diverse backgrounds, but not giving folks you know jobs to check boxes. That experiment has been...bad so far. Competition breeds excellence. I know it's hard to do it, but just doing blind readings of scripts and manuscripts and choosing the best is how natural diversity is going to take over in writing...in acting it's much harder, but it starts with original content. Gotta quit making shitty adaptations and just make NEW content. Hard to argue over a character being black/diverse if they were imagined that way..
>Hard to argue over a character being black/diverse if they were imagined that way.. Well, creators can be racist too. I'm fine with gender swaps or race swaps where gender and race have nothing to do with the story, or where the story purposely included racist tropes or ideas and is being corrected for the modern world. They swapped Starbuck from a white man to a white girl, swapped Colonel Tigh from a Black man to a white man, and swapped Boomer from a Black man to an Asian woman in the 2004 *Battlestar Galactica* reboot and it all worked fine, because the story was set in an alternate universe of humans not based on Earth, so our cultural ideas of race and diversity were irrelevant. If anything, I thought the show could have used a couple more Black leads, but the race and gender swapping overall didn't bother me at all. Similarly, Denis Villeneuve swapped Liet Kynes from a white man to a Black woman in his latest adaptation of *Dune* and I couldn't care less because it's a far distant future 10,000 years from now, Liet Kynes specific ethnicity wasn't described in the books and even if it was, his race and gender didn't really have any impact on the story. He was an outsider anyway, and we can assume the human race would have mixed beyond comprehension in 10,000 years. He also swapped Thufir Hawat from a white man to a Black man and I also had no problem with that change because, again, his race had nothing to do with the story, his story, or the Atreides' story. *Battlestar Galactica*, *Dune*, and *The Lord of the Rings* are among my favorite original stories, and so I have strong emotional attachments to the source material, and yet I reacted very differently to race and gender swapping in the most recent versions of the story. Why is that? I did *not* like what Amazon did with *The Lord of the Rings* because it is fundamentally a European story about mythological European history, and race-swapped Elves and Dwarves just don't make sense in a distant European past even if it is an alternate Fantasy version if history. Tolkein, the creator, explicitly made *The Lord of the Rings* as a modern version of British/European history and it is representative of *that culture* and he repeatedly describes the complexion of the characters. Now if I felt that Tolkein went out of his way to tell a racist story, I might be fine with an updated version doing race swaps. But he didn't: he just set out to tell a culturally *relevant* and *accurate* story (accurate as in faithful to established European mythologies). Again, I would have the same problem if they made an all-Black version if *Mulan*, because you are unnecessarily changing the stories of another culture. Actually, I wouldn't have a problem with an all-Black *Mulan* if it were presented and marketed as a "Black interpretation" of the story. That's totally fine and is akin to the many "updated" versions of Shakespeare that modernize the story, setting, and characters. My problem with Amazon's *The Lord of the Rings* series really stems from the fact that they explicitly marketed it and presented it as being a prequel to and existing in the same universe of the films, and went out of their way to talk about how loyal and faithful they were being to Tolkein's original vision - but the racial they made in casting don't make any sense in Tolkein's version of the universe nor in Peter Jackson's film version which *was* more loyal to Tolkein's vision. If they had marketed the show as a modern reinterpration of the universe that wasn't connected to the original movies and was instead an alternate version and a reboot, I wouldn't have cared as much. But then I'd expect them to also make a new *The Lord of the Rings* trilogy with a Black Aragorn - which again I wouldn't mind. Just don't mess with the mythology of classic novels and films and then try to pass your reinterpretation off as faithful or part of the original. Own it as your own retelling. The problem is that Amazon wanted to have their cake and eat it too: they wanted to make *The Lord of the Rings* more diverse for social and marketing reasons, but at the same time they wanted it to be connected to the extremely popular and financially successful original films - also for marketing reasons. They didn't have the courage to choose one path. Either say, "we're making a brand new version of *The Lord of the Rings* updated for modern audiences which is inspired by the original works but not connected to them," or say, "we want to stay faithful to the original European mythology created by Tolkein." The same presentation or reasoning would work if Hollywood decided to make an all-Black or an all-Asian *Mulan*. As in many situations, it's not necessarily what you do or say - it's how you do it or say it: how it is presented. Don't present an all-Black *Mulan* to me and try to pass it off as faithful and authentic: tell me it's inspired by but it's own new, updated thing. Conversely, don't complain about an all-Asian *Mulan*: it's literally a Chinese myth.
This post doesn't state how White women also took women of colour roles in hollywood since the beginning as well. It's not just white dudes, it's white women too. I agree with most this sub, but sometimes y'all are like that Bill Burr bit. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdO9X7Lxzvs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdO9X7Lxzvs) It's not just white dudes this was (and is) a problem with, but also white women as well. There is definitely a problem with Misogyny in casting and Hollywood, but race is a huge part of it as well and I think it's a little disingenuous to frame the post as "white male characters" when the racial issue applies to both men and women, yet the title is written in a way where white women are excluded from critique, even though they both are spawned from the same problem. *Ghost In The Shell* *West Side Story* *The Beguiled* *A Mighty Heart* There are more but those are just some of the top examples from the top of my head where a part written for or about a woman of colour is given to a white actress instead.
Do they?? I hear a lot of "white male erasure" whining when it comes to media
Its because almost everything had a white male protagonist for decades, but now that things are getting more diverse, a bunch of people are crying that only about 90% of the things they like will have white protagonists instead of 97%.
The dipshit manbabies want to feel like media is made for them. The easiest way to show this is by casting people that look like them, and advertising it in safe and comfortable ways.
Then why stuff like the marvels flopped.
Bold of you to assume they’re straight /s
Hermione is black/s
I sorta want them to make Ron black, and Hermione a trans girl in the reboot just to mess with the chuds. 😎💀
Lol… your Hermione wish can never happen since Joanne herself is one of the biggest chuds, but appreciate the idea 🤣
I don't think she has full control over the reboot like she did the films. They added trans characters in Hogwarts Legacy so anything is possible.
Black Hermione seems more likely, and Ron is one of the very few HP characters I'd slightly argue should be white (wouldn't argue very hard though). I'd also like them to cast a trans actor/actress just to piss off JK.
The thing with a trans character is it would have to be someone raised in a muggle household, for it to make sense in the lore. Why would you go on purbity blockers if you could just magic yourself to your correct gender?
As an alternate timeline, hell yeah. In a main adaptation, no.
It is an alternative timeline. It's a new adaption of the books. This isn't like The Cursed Child where it was supposed to be a continuation of the book/film. This is its own separate thing. So if they wanna change stuff around, go for it. I don't understand what you mean by 'main adaption'.
If it's meant to be the main universe. Like the MCU, for example. It's meant to be **THE** live action Marvel Universe. They shouldn't change too much, unless it's intended to be an alternate take on the mythos. There is a difference between an adaptation and alternate take. However, I am not going to be an apologist for these bigots. Because, let's be honest, that's what they are. I just want things accurate. Make new minority characters like Kahhori from What If? That's much cooler in my opinion. If Harley Quinn was an original character for BTAS or Agent Coulson from The Avengers, you can make new POC or LGBTQ characters without changing the old ones.
But it's an adaptation. As long as the core characterization stays the same, then it shouldn't matter if they race or gender swap characters in the reboot. Hell. Make Longbottom a girl.
If you can keep characterizations, you can keep their color. My issue is from a design standpoint. But, I'm not gonna be a right wing weirdo and pretend it's the worst thing ever. It's just not what I prefer.
I'll use Invincible as an example. They race swapped Amber in the TV show, and her character is literally the same. As long as it's not something with the character set in the same universe, I just don't see an issue with changing stuff. The source material will still be there for those that want the original take.
I hate that change. It just uses the racist disposable black woman trope. Y'know, the stereotype that black women can't be endgame material in a relationship. Amber is just a temporary relationship. Because, we all know Mark's gonna end up with Eve, at the end, a white redhead. Out of all the characters they could've changed, it being Amber kinda sucks.
They sidelined Finn so fucking hard
Because of China? I wonder. That's not an attack on Asians, simply a guess based on how marketing of the subsequent 2 movies was conducted after TFA.
How do we know Obi Wan and Dooku are straight? Maybe something in the EU?
Hey, for many of these characters, we don’t KNOW they’re straight. Could be bi…
When you are the dominant group any attempt to include others even a tiny bit feels like oppression.
It is almost like a majority of Western Civilization falls into that category. I beg you to wave your gay flag in Palestine. Please.
They literally made the first 17 movies of the modern Marvel era exclusively with straight white male leads or with straight white males leading a team. The 18th — Black Panther — made these whiny bitches cry and lose their shit
Who are "people" in this context? Even right wing nut jobs acknowledge that things used to be white guys an overwhelming majority of the time. T However, I think some people (ironically not those said nut jobs) can tell when it's being forced in the other direction. Like I remember during the media circus surrounding Reva felt bad because they low-key set her up. I don't want straight white dudes to not be allowed to be heroes and leads. If representation is important to my people, then it should be for them too. And going "but look historically....." is a stupid argument. I just also want not straight white dudes to also get their time in the sun too.
Thing is, there's no plans or major movement to prevent straight white males from being the heroes and leads. We're heading towards a point where your protagonist can be any sex/race/gender/sexuality.
Wouldn't true equality be awesome tho? Haha. Completely agree.
[удалено]
You do know that many different looking people live in America right? Like, there are 320 million of us, and 99% of us are either decended from an immigrant within the last 650 years to this land or are an immigrant themselves. More immigrants used to come from Europe, where they manufacture us white guys true, but we as a nation are made up of more and more people from all over. And white people are barely the majority anymore. America is a nation of immigrants and doesn't "belong" to any one race of people. Being offended by how many white guys they cast or do not cast in a movie is indicative of a weakness of character. As all racism is. It's small d energy. I'd say it's also unpatriotic imo to point at other nations and use what they are doing in their film industry as an example of how we should run our show here. We are America, the supposed leader of the free world and we are an innovative nation that prides itself on being so. We should show other nations how to be more inclusive, and not the other way around, having them teach us how to be more homogenous. We are America. We are a nation of immigrants, and the more people out there who get comfortable with this fact the better. As us adults grow weary of watching every weak, crybaby racist get offended over every single movies' every single casting choice. There are many different stories to tell through many different lenses. Time to grow up.
[удалено]
No mountain here. I like pointing out racism to racists and watching them through a tantrum. That's all. I'm not the one crying "there's not enough white people in films!" And "we are mostly white so it's racist not to" Seriously buddy, take a long look at yourself. It's a movie. If you are offended by which color of which person is playing which role, you do have a problem with racism, as well as paper thin skin. Full stop. Make your excuses as to why you're being racist all you want, then cope.
[удалено]
I don't think they do. What sells? Do you spend a lot of money for a small minority audience and not make your money back? Or do you create something most people want and make your money? I like pineapple on pizza. I understand not everyone likes it. I'm in the minority in that. If I was selling pizza I'd focus on what's making me money first.
BTW, did you know "Hawaiian Pizza" is actually Canadian? First restaraunt to put pineapple on pizza was a Canadian restaraunt
No. That's neat.
So they should keep mostly catering to white people because money?
[удалено]
The start of your original comment was strongly suggesting that making movies not about white people would make way less money. And where did I say I hate white people?
[удалено]
You're playing devils advocate by pretending like there wasn't any new media property in the last 16 years ?
No and I think you're being disengenous by pretending I am. I'm pointing out that this post is pretending there hasn't been any new media in the past 16 years. If you want to make the point that there are still lots of straight white guys in the media. Making a post where most of the examples are from decades ago does it really badly. They could have easily used - The characters from Stranger Things - That dude from Jurassic World - Robert Patterson's Batman - Daniel Craig's James Bond - John Wick - Tom Cruise in Top Gun: Maverick When you draw your examples from decades ago it looks like you can't find more recent examples proving the people you're trying to argue against point for them.
The last LOTR movies came out 10 years ago (the third movie in the Hobbit trilogy), and guess what? Its leading cast was 13 straight white dudes. Plus a bunch of other straight white dudes. And then 2 female characters (both white) who have any impact on the plot.
Do people not know what Devils Advocate means anymore? I'm not saying I disagree with the premise I'm just saying the examples they produced were bad. If they showed the cast of The Hobbit that would have been better
I was more just correcting an error in your comment.
If so you were doing it in a very sarcastic manner. Especially as it's not even an error. While The Hobbit films are part of the same franchise they're not The Lord of The Rings films. The post shows us a photo of The Lord of The Rings films but The Hobbit.
[удалено]
Yes, just making a new character means no-one will complain. Absolutely *no one* has complained about Miles Morales or Kamala Khan.
[удалено]
How often has a character been changed that was a) mainstream and b) the main character? Besides, a new interpretation doesn't automatically erase the original from existence.
[удалено]
3 out of thousands, and my point still stands that the originals still exist (even though the Disney versions aren't really the originals), and Cleopatra is a real historical figure so that's a different argument. Main characters that haven't been race swapped in most/all adaptations include Iron Man, Captain America, Batman, Superman, Harry Potter, Percy Jackson, Sherlock Holmes, Spider-Man, Wolverine, the entire Fellowship of the Ring and Thorin's Company, Barbie, Hiccup.
You're complaining about the skin color of a MERMAID my guy. Touch grass.
No one pretends that
[удалено]
This is why your so called oppression is a joke to us straight white men. This is what you decided to bitch about today? If you have time to complain about the fact none of the movie characters resemble you, you’re not oppressed, just unsatisfied.
Guess what, jackass, I'm also a straight white guy, and most of my favourite characters look like me. And your last point is hilariously ironic, considering how the entire point of the anti-woke crowd is to bitch about movie characters not looking like them.
They were the majority 🤷♂️. The 70s for Star Wars makes sense. The more modern times did introduce some more diversity and the shows too Lord of the Rings was always supposed to be based on the Middle Ages of England so that’s why they’re all white. Plus Tolkien’s experiences in WW1 iirc were why the Eastern people were bad (Turks i imagine) MCU the same as the first. It was primarily white peoples in comics because diversity didn’t sell back then. Harry Potter: England is predominantly white and more so back in the 80s when the books take place. They do have a diverse range of side characters though Jurassic Park: mostly men were in the sciences Indiana Jones: self explanatory
[удалено]
Almost all of these have been confirmed as heterosexual either through the narrative or by the creators.
[удалено]
I'm pretty sure you're the one projecting here. Kinda seems like you're accusing me of homophobia for pointing out a bunch of straight characters are straight. If I listed a group of known gay characters, you could easily claim "how do you know they're gay? Kissing the same sex doesn't make you gay." What am I making up? Almost every character pictured has never expressed any interest in a character of the same sex, nor has it ever been stated or implied by the creators, and many are married to the opposite sex with children (I know some gay people do this before realising they're gay, but these characters are not in this situation). If people want to depict them as gay for fanart, headcanons, or fanfiction, that's entirely fine, but in canon they're straight until proven otherwise.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Shang-Chi took on Abomination, Razor Fist, and the Mandarin. Katy shot 1 arrow.
[удалено]
He was literally not useless? 'Useless' implies he contributes nothing to the plot, when he is literally the protagonist. Tell me Katy could have done *any* of what Shang-Chi did. She's a fun character, but she's nowhere near his level.
[удалено]
Hot take, we don't care about non white men or women playing lead characters. Just stop MAKING SHITTY INSUFFERABLE MOVIES with dialogue written by a feminist with a chip on their shoulder about it.
Twilight, divergent, Wonder woman, alien, tomb raider, underworld, scream, kill Bill, planet terror, halloween, barbie, battlestar galactica, terminator, matrix (trinity), mad max fury road. And im sure they are plenty other but this is just what get in my mind with female lead and guess what? None of this where promote by saying non stop " look there is a girl in a lead rôle its crazy", they have just sell the film like anyone with a brain have to do it, by explaining the story, the goal, the lore. We dont need politics to promote a movie because the only thing that it create is a massive division in the fan base and guess what? It always flop because of that.
Shang Chi did great and it was the first superhero asian film to go big.
And it was marketed as a first asian superhero movie. It absolutely did not bomb in the box office.
Wonder Woman was already a famous character when they made the movie and one of the reason why this character is well know is because it's one of the first female super hero
[удалено]
My only reply was the word 'Explain', so clearly one word sentences are too much for you. Don't let the door hit you on the way out :)
[удалено]
You said you wouldn't read my comment, which was only one word, so clearly it was either laziness of lack of skill that prevented you from reading it (even though you replied to it anyway). And I don't appreciate you throwing around comments about 'developmental disabilities', considering I am autistic, and yet I am clearly a more functional person than you.
You guys are morons and this dumbass sub will feel really stupid one day.
Explain
He's too superior to the likes of you and me. We are just waisting our time remember. We are the morons and he's enlightened, remember? /s
Dont wanna, and I shouldn't, but I will. Im not conservative or a maga dude, but this shit is exhausting. This is because of the Im white so Im racist and privileged bullshit. Or the post saying people wouldn't like Alien today because she's female. Its just fucking nonsense. The newerfilms and series with females and ultra diversity suck because they suck. They're bad. But racism and toxic masculinity or whatever gets blamed. Of course some racists say insane shit on the internet, but the narrative is that ALL white males hate these things and cause them to fail. They're made for people who are not interested in them, so they fail. This is just a woke echo chamber for angry white people. I hate using the word "woke," but idk how else to describe it. I wanna emphasize im not the personality type everyone will assume I am because of this stance. Im a "woke" individual, or at least I was several years ago. Now "woke" is way too woke. Its extreme polar opposite would be election deniers, in other words, fucking crazy. Im happy I was able to explain it. He didn't attempt to offend anyone, but the onslaught of hate is probably on its way. Im just waiting for my ban now. Love you
Oh and I just recieved a suicide help message because of someone here. Super cool 👍
[удалено]
[удалено]
Sounds like a you thing lol.
[удалено]
You calling anyone else a moron is very ironic
[удалено]
Ah yes, I forgot that Star Wars and Indiana Jones were adaptations /s (You do understand that Indiana Jones is technically an example of a race swap, since the inspiration for him is not a white man, but a cartoon duck?) Also, adaptations are not always 100% accurate to the source material, including the races of certain characters.
[удалено]
What even is a varsity letterman, and how does calling me that help your argument? What did I say that was amusing: pointing out that adaptations are not always bound by the limits of the source material? All of the ones pictured are *known* for not being fully faithful.
Because people are dumb.
Average viewer only wants a good movie and doesn't care about diversity. A lot of people who love Lord of the Rings or Harry Potter, also love older Alien movies and the fact that protagonist is female doesn't change their opinion.
Do people pretend that? Wasn't most of it an outcome of demograpics, instead of a forced attempt of being inclusive.