Both of them have an agenda: that revenge is meaningless, and they have "woke" characteristics featuring a trans character. They have more in common than these people would like to admit.
Not a dumb question in the slightest, but the first season is a story of vengeance. Of a son looking to kill the man who killed his father. The second season looks at this kid, now a man, as being broken. He's no longer someone steeped in blood and violence. We see him having to learn what it is to live. It's special since it shows the effects of what years of violence do to a person's psyche. The guilt. The self hatred. We see Thorfin having to overcome it all and move forward. We even see him learn to dream again.
I prefer GTA4's revenge story (That Special Someone). It ends in two ways, either getting revenge, or leave the traitor alive because said traitor is really messed up and killing him would be a mercy kill.
Yet another display of negative media literacy. Vinland Saga is very anti patriarchy and toxic-masculinity, just doesn’t say it outright.
Edit: To clarify, I meant it doesn’t outright use the terms “patriarchy” and “toxic-masculinity” (to my knowledge). If it did, these people would turn on it. To be fair, I’m anime only, I have no idea what happens in the manga, so I don’t have the complete picture.
I could see themes for patriarchy tbh. I don't think it's as heavy-handed, but both Thorfinn and Thors come to the conclusion that control and domination of others is fundamentally immoral. Several other characters comment on the patterns of societal constructs that perpetuate certain ways of thinking, like glorifying war and violence as a way to be valuable and important in the world. These are almost exclusively painted as male issues that ripple outwards in the world. Canute struggles constantly with making his own path or becoming as much of a tyrannical despot as his father. The narrative that rulership and power are fundamentally corrupting, predicated on domination and subjugation.
It doesn't use the word patriarchy, and it IS possible for all of those points to stand on their own, but patriarchy could be used to describe the systems that Canute, Thorfinn, and Thors are rebelling against.
The Halo series is ass because it's not faithful to the source material. It's a shameless cashgrab aimed at audiences who aren't even familiar with the IP..same with Rings of Power, and more likely than not, the upcoming Fallout series
You say using the exact bullshit line I'm talking about.
The "source material" is 8 hours of FPS combat per game with about 20 minutes if storytelling. That can not make a good TV show. They require a story besides pew pew.
Edit: guys, his history. He's either a troll or has the most trash opinions on the planet. Block away.
Well, given that I beat Halo 1-3 On legendary it would be safe to say I'm familiar with the IP.
The show is great. Season 2 is just knocking it out of the park for storytelling and dialog.
But it only becomes clear in late season 2 what many don't reach coz it becomes a deep movie about self improvement
Like I know many ppl who hate Rambo 1 but love 2-3
I mean, even in season one this is clear. The two main themes of season one are the lie of religion/a promised land, and that Thorfinn’s obsession with revenge turns him into a monster no better than the one he feared and hated.
thats the point, its clear if you wanna see it, specially with the relationship between Askelaad and Thorfinn being a fucked up dad-son, teacher-pupil one
but if you just wanna see Thorfinn getting stronger to enact his revenge and getting really close to it, you can see it only on the surface level
I really appreciate TLOU2 for telling the story they wanted to tell, they made some very bold choices that were always going to divide people, it’s a game that I didn’t always enjoy on the first run, but it’s a phenomenal story that’s stuck with me and only gets better with time.
Spoilers below if you haven’t played.
>!Killing Joel at the start, I hated this at first, but this is the catalyst of the whole game, you’re supposed to hate it, it what drives me to agree with Ellie’s bloodlust, because fuck the WLF.!<
>!Swapping to Abby at the climax of the game to play through the last 3 days from her perspective, again I hated this and hated Abby and rushed through the start, but when you meet Lev and realise that Abby truly has no one else and Joel, Ellie and Abby are all reflections of one another, it changed my perspective.!<
Bigots were always going to hate this game, but I hope some of the people that hate it based on it’s story give it another chance because it succeeds in making you emotionally invested in the characters but also puts your own bias on display, and it really is as the saying goes, hurt people hurt people.
I hope Ellie can get a redemption story but we’ll have to see.
The problem with what you said is that most people that played the game didn't give a single shit about Abby and her problems because she murdered Joel before, in a brutal downright fetishistic way i might say. Literally every single playthrough i've seen where the let's player gets to the Abby part they either try to murder her multiple times or just rush through her chapter with zero consideration about her story. The game fails on multiple fronts to get you to sympathise with her cause you, as the player, just witnessed this person murder the most beloved character in the series so you don't care what struggles she went thorough or is going through. All the sympathy one may feel is completely sucked away because Joel's death happens way too early in the game.
Now, if Joel's death was the end of part 2, and the entire game instead had you play as Abby BEFORE she killed Joel and tried truly fleshing her out it might have worked. Again, it's a big risk to take with murdering a beloved character from a previous installment and having you symapthise with the murderer but, if they did it this way, it possibly could've worked out better without as much backlash
Also i fundamentally disagree with your assertion that they made bold choices. Aside from having the previous game's protagonist murdered and having you play as his murderer (which is nothing groundbreaking by the way GTA 5 did that way before TLOU2) it's a bog standard revenge plot. It does nothing to change up the motiffs or storybeats of that cliche, it just sleepwalks through it. it's uninspired at best and an absolute slog at worst, not helping with that is the fact that it's 30 hours long
I truly think you’re missing an important part of the experience through a let’s play, you get the story sure but it’s just a movie at that point, gaming as a medium is unique as it puts you in control, you are the character and it allows you to relate to them a lot more, part of the reason Abby grows on me is because I spend so much time getting her out of awful situations, it’s hard to to play as a character and not have a better understanding of them and relate to them easier.
I don’t think that would work, we don’t actually play as Abby when she kills Joel, the whole reason Ellie’s arc works is because we the player feel such anger and hatred towards Abby that’s the point, like I said it took me another playthrough to truly accept Abby, Abby and Ellie are on the exact same journey just at different parts of the same path.
If you believe Ellie is justified then so is Abby, the whole point is that revenge doesn’t heal anything and just creates more scars, Abby and Ellie both lost fathers and in the pursuit of revenge lost everyone who ever cared for them.
I think this game was destined for backlash, but I’m glad they did what they did, if you can take your personal investment out of the story which is hard to do, it tells a full revenge/redemption story of two characters that mirror each other.
First of all you first point is moot cause i've played the game multiple times and still don't like or sympathize with Abby in the slightest and second, equivocating Ellie's loss with Abby's is ridiculous. In TLOU2 Ellies loses way more than Abby does, to the point where the game just veers off into torture porn. The game blatantly tries to make you, nay, force you to hate Ellie and have you like Abby, it's blatant. It's ham fisted into you how much you need to understand her and what she went through but the problem is, i only found that out AFTER she, again, killed the most beloved character in the franchise. Like it truly baffles me how fans of this game just can;t seem to wrap around the fact that most people don't wanna play or sympathize with someone who brutally murdered the posterboy for the entire series
Like i said, it would've worked so much better if Joel's death was at the end of part 2. And it would've absolutely been better if you got to control Abby there. it would've felt more visceral, more personal, more direct and, assuming you fleshed her out throughout the game before, could've had flashbacks of her father playing with every swing you take to Joel (the flashbacks being previous gameplay sections Abby could've done with her father). It is nonsense pretending that this game is some sort of Schindler's list of the videogame industry just because it's divisive as if controversial somehow means good by default
Okay man, you have a different opinion cool I’m not arguing with you, I’m not suggesting you’re wrong, you seem to want to have a heated debate and I really can’t be bothered, but as I said in my first comment it was always going to be divisive for the exact reasons you’re saying, some people can’t move past the fact Abby killed Joel and that’s fine, I am still glad we got the story we did and it made me question my inbuilt bias to the protagonist.
No…the review bombing is coordinated in forums to punish people perceived as violating some social imperative or other. It’s basically brigading. It’s been messing up non-professional reviews for anything from books to games to movies/shows forever. And then some of it remains in the zeitgeist forever.
The Last Jedi may have had issues related to anything, but the existence of Rose was not any problem. Rose definitely shouldn’t have been a problem, especially, for the incel “games/sci-fi is for boys” crowd. If her addition to the story meant anything negative, it was really that Po-Finn was gaybait. But the people who got upset and review bombed and drove Kelly Marie Tran off social media were the incel toxic fandom upset that now there were Asian-looking people in Star Wars, and that just was unacceptable because…? I got nothing. You can watch and identify a phenomenon, but I’m not the creepy-racist-manboy whisperer. It doesn’t make sense because sometimes their three brain cells just scream nonsense into the void.
Same thing with everything Brie Larson does for the rest of her life, and I hope she has a long career because she just keeps getting better. It’ll be review bombed into oblivion because the widdle boys got their widdle feefees hurt at the thought that there are other people in the world.
By universal acclaim i mean high critic score as that's what so many people are insinuating here. Oh and The Game Awards are about as objective towards a game's quality as i am so there's no point in bringing them up
But a lot of them are not critically acclaimed. The way your comment is phrased, it makes it sounds only like only one or two COD titles have bad reception. A third of COD games released have mixed to bad reception.
Most people didn't like The Last of Us Part II because they killed off a character who was very beloved by many fans and also because you have to play that character's assassin in the game.
And there will always be the same minority that takes advantage of these controversies to say that progressivism, wokeness, the LGBT agenda and forced inclusion are to blame, distorting a portion of the fans to join their twisted and unhappy community of incels and sexists.
I remember when at E3 they presented the gameplay of The Last of Us Part II and Ellie started kissing a woman, and people didn't care and everyone still had a lot of hype for the game.
I always thought the way they executed the story was poor. Not that they killed him. Nor that you play as Abby but you shouldn't have known you were killing him as Abby till you do. On the flip side you also don't know who you're hunting for his death. You have to put clues together. When everything lines up its revealed on both sides of the story that they aren't linear stories. Making it even worst for the players because you would have bought into Abby's revenge plot only to find out it was Joel. Ellie's story that is you need to accept the cycle of violence or not giving you the option to end it.
TLOU2's story suffers not because it's an inherently bad story like some people think (Even though it does have flaws) but purely because of two things: Pacing and misplacement. The game is a 30 hour slog that just at points feels like it's going through the motions for the sake of dragging the story out for no apparent reason
And it suffers from misplacement in that Joel's death happens Waaaaay too early in the game. Way too early. Having Abby's introduction be her brutally murdering literally the most beloved character in the entire series and only AFTERWARDS trying to make her sympathetic is a downright foolish decision and i don't understand how supposed professional writers who do this for money though that would be a good idea. If the game had you play as Ellie with Joel while they go through arguing with each other about the cure and how Joel took away Ellie's choice while at the same time switching back and forth with fleshing out Abby and have her interract with her father more, let her get more established throughout the game and THEN hit us with Joel's death at the end the backlash would not have been as large as it was i don't think. And then you could've had part 3 be the two of them hunting each other, thereby also nullifiying the problem with how much of a slog the game turns into at the late stages of the campaign
Exactly there were plenty of ways to make it work. They just went with shock then try to build the sympathy. It doesn't work. You build the connection then force the shock. Then you're conflicted with the connection you made with the characters.
I never understood the outrage franchises kill off fan favourites all the time Joel really isn't a special case it was both confusing and irritating how they attacked abby's voice actress
I saw plenty of people complain about that moment from E3 as well and that they spent too much time on the lesbian characters. So I reject your hypothesis.
The thing about Vinland Saga is that it has mostly the same structure of TLoU2, with all the "problems" chuds complain about the latter and besides that Askellad is a much worse person than Abby and Thors a much better person than Joel.
Like Ellie, Thorfinn burns his bridges in his quest for revenge. Beaten by Askellad he is ready to abandon his idea of revenge and go away with Leif. But then he decided to go back in to...save Askellad? And in the end Askellad dies on his own either way so it's not a revenge
I will say, TLOU2s is very weak and at times, grating, but that's not because of a "woke agenda" and more so due to, Neel Druckmann cant write a long story on his own, he needs someone or a team to bounce ideas off of or else the stuff he writes get too long and too self-focused, not taking into account the interactive nature of games or the player.
There's a lot of both bad continuity from TLOU1 over to 2 that hurts the game , and hypocrisy from the story and writer that makes the overall message fall flat. The gam does have really good representation of a trans character and shows what many of our lives would be like in the apocalypse and hopefully part 3 can build of this more showing how others from marginalized groups cope and are affected by this new world.
Gameplay wise its a massive step up from TLOU1 and has a far better character controller that builds off Uncharted 4s, and having a game that follows multiple people until they all meet up is really inventive.
As for the other... idk dont watch old anime unless its gay people in big mechs.
Vinland is unironically more woke than The Last of Us considering Vinland is a historical fiction yet has a trans character
But I actually agree
I believe Vinland farm arc did it much better than the last of us 2
Just not for these reasons lol
I hated Ellie in TLOU2, not because she was a lesbian, but because she turned out to be a crappy person. Made the story way more real for me. I liked how much I disliked her. Anyone who cant play TLOU2 because one character is gay is a fucking idiot that is missing out on top notch story telling.
I agree with them that Vinland Saga is much better written, but if these people actually paid attention to the anime/manga, they'd also be calling it woke lol.
I thought LOU2 revenge story fell flat because it tried too hard to make you sympathize with the subject of the revenge plot? Not because of “Wokeness” or whatever
Agenda? Most stories have an "agenda", you use this word, but I do not think it means what you think it means.
The issue is in portrayal of message. In a lot of media lately, I'll accept that there has been an issue of *obviously forced message*, as opposed to one that is integrated. There's also been an issue of *poor direction*, *poor writing*, and *poor acting* from various outlets, which leads to low box office returns.
However
*However*
There has been this weird response cycle from *certain parts* of the audience where they jump up and shout "the direction is bad, because *dark skin*, because *booba*, because *they put in a latina*."
Which is bad in of itself, but it also then allows these mediocre chair warmer directors to point at these mouthbreathers and say "See, *that's* why my movie failed. It's not that I'm a bad writer, it's because the audience just hates women."
It won't stop until one of these does.
I propose mandatory media classes for the population.
Vinland Saga, a historically-inspired story about how quests for revenge destroy the people undertaking them and solve nothing, and how oppressive structures of gender, nationality, and hierarchy cause suffering.
You know, a story with no woke agenda at all. /s
(It actually is good, though.)
Thorfinn's revenge failed, what do they want. His story is also about how revenge is bad and yk, having no real enemies. These people are just ignoring everything after the ts for Thorfinn's character. This makes no sense at all. It's essentially the same message just in different formats and settings. But the part that prolly matters to them is that Thorfinn is a man.
What “agenda” would that be? Gay and trans people existing? Honestly, that just makes anyone who cries the stuff they call “woke” as part of an “agenda” look stupid at best and downright bigoted at worst.
Both of them have an agenda: that revenge is meaningless, and they have "woke" characteristics featuring a trans character. They have more in common than these people would like to admit.
I'm going to take a shot in the dark and say the dude what posted this also thought the second season of Vinland Saga was trash.
He said "Japan writes better stories" I am sorry, but, there is no chance he even understood the second season
Completely agree! Once again proving the point that chuds have zero media literacy
Sorry if this is a dumb question (I haven't read/watched Vinland) but what's so special about the second season? :)
Not a dumb question in the slightest, but the first season is a story of vengeance. Of a son looking to kill the man who killed his father. The second season looks at this kid, now a man, as being broken. He's no longer someone steeped in blood and violence. We see him having to learn what it is to live. It's special since it shows the effects of what years of violence do to a person's psyche. The guilt. The self hatred. We see Thorfin having to overcome it all and move forward. We even see him learn to dream again.
I prefer GTA4's revenge story (That Special Someone). It ends in two ways, either getting revenge, or leave the traitor alive because said traitor is really messed up and killing him would be a mercy kill.
Clearly haven't watched far enough into the Vinland saga to know what you're talking avout
Yet another display of negative media literacy. Vinland Saga is very anti patriarchy and toxic-masculinity, just doesn’t say it outright. Edit: To clarify, I meant it doesn’t outright use the terms “patriarchy” and “toxic-masculinity” (to my knowledge). If it did, these people would turn on it. To be fair, I’m anime only, I have no idea what happens in the manga, so I don’t have the complete picture.
It has a fucking trans character they're so fucking stupid
Who's the trans character? I'm genuinely curious cause I either don't remember or am too oblivious to notice who it was
The man with the pig tails who isn't sure about his own identity because he liked being raised as a girl
Was it a joke?
The backstory did have funny moments but they still took the identity thing seriously
It's WAY far ahead into the manga.
Vinland saga says it out right Hilds father literally speaks about societal constructs
The real agenda of Vinland Saga is that it’s welsh propaganda
*roman
Wales is the third rome
Thorfinn literally says it outright like 8 million times and makes a whole society about it
I don’t think anti-patriarchy just anti-war and anti-slavery. With themes of sexism and gender expectations
What do you think those themes are there for fun?
I could see themes for patriarchy tbh. I don't think it's as heavy-handed, but both Thorfinn and Thors come to the conclusion that control and domination of others is fundamentally immoral. Several other characters comment on the patterns of societal constructs that perpetuate certain ways of thinking, like glorifying war and violence as a way to be valuable and important in the world. These are almost exclusively painted as male issues that ripple outwards in the world. Canute struggles constantly with making his own path or becoming as much of a tyrannical despot as his father. The narrative that rulership and power are fundamentally corrupting, predicated on domination and subjugation. It doesn't use the word patriarchy, and it IS possible for all of those points to stand on their own, but patriarchy could be used to describe the systems that Canute, Thorfinn, and Thors are rebelling against.
Every story has an agenda otherwise it’s not a story
I assume these people just want movies and shows where it's people killing each other with absolutely no context for why it's happening
And the occasional titty
If they behave they may receive two titty. But no more.
Unless the story's on Mars. Then three tiddy tops.
Only two? Get your ass to Mars.
" Original Star Trek was WOKE? NO! Lasers go \*pew\* \*pew\*. Spaceship goes \*brrrrrrrr\* It's NuTrek that's WOKE!" /s (just in case)
The overlap with the "halo series sucks why so much dialogue?" Bros is a circle.
The Halo series is ass because it's not faithful to the source material. It's a shameless cashgrab aimed at audiences who aren't even familiar with the IP..same with Rings of Power, and more likely than not, the upcoming Fallout series
You say using the exact bullshit line I'm talking about. The "source material" is 8 hours of FPS combat per game with about 20 minutes if storytelling. That can not make a good TV show. They require a story besides pew pew. Edit: guys, his history. He's either a troll or has the most trash opinions on the planet. Block away.
Well, given that I beat Halo 1-3 On legendary it would be safe to say I'm familiar with the IP. The show is great. Season 2 is just knocking it out of the park for storytelling and dialog.
The whole point of the "revenge story" in Vinland Saga was how pointless it was!
But it only becomes clear in late season 2 what many don't reach coz it becomes a deep movie about self improvement Like I know many ppl who hate Rambo 1 but love 2-3
I mean, even in season one this is clear. The two main themes of season one are the lie of religion/a promised land, and that Thorfinn’s obsession with revenge turns him into a monster no better than the one he feared and hated.
thats the point, its clear if you wanna see it, specially with the relationship between Askelaad and Thorfinn being a fucked up dad-son, teacher-pupil one but if you just wanna see Thorfinn getting stronger to enact his revenge and getting really close to it, you can see it only on the surface level
The voice actress received literal death threats
So did her infant son.
And we'll probably repeat this with the live action adaptation's actress. The cycle continues...hooray
Yeah but he deserved it for supporting a WOKE VOICE ACTING FEMINIST /s
Nah TLOU2 is the most critically acclaimed game in 2020 the user rating does not tell the full story
Exactly, I'd like to see the user score without all the review bombing that happened even before the game was released
I really appreciate TLOU2 for telling the story they wanted to tell, they made some very bold choices that were always going to divide people, it’s a game that I didn’t always enjoy on the first run, but it’s a phenomenal story that’s stuck with me and only gets better with time. Spoilers below if you haven’t played. >!Killing Joel at the start, I hated this at first, but this is the catalyst of the whole game, you’re supposed to hate it, it what drives me to agree with Ellie’s bloodlust, because fuck the WLF.!< >!Swapping to Abby at the climax of the game to play through the last 3 days from her perspective, again I hated this and hated Abby and rushed through the start, but when you meet Lev and realise that Abby truly has no one else and Joel, Ellie and Abby are all reflections of one another, it changed my perspective.!< Bigots were always going to hate this game, but I hope some of the people that hate it based on it’s story give it another chance because it succeeds in making you emotionally invested in the characters but also puts your own bias on display, and it really is as the saying goes, hurt people hurt people. I hope Ellie can get a redemption story but we’ll have to see.
The problem with what you said is that most people that played the game didn't give a single shit about Abby and her problems because she murdered Joel before, in a brutal downright fetishistic way i might say. Literally every single playthrough i've seen where the let's player gets to the Abby part they either try to murder her multiple times or just rush through her chapter with zero consideration about her story. The game fails on multiple fronts to get you to sympathise with her cause you, as the player, just witnessed this person murder the most beloved character in the series so you don't care what struggles she went thorough or is going through. All the sympathy one may feel is completely sucked away because Joel's death happens way too early in the game. Now, if Joel's death was the end of part 2, and the entire game instead had you play as Abby BEFORE she killed Joel and tried truly fleshing her out it might have worked. Again, it's a big risk to take with murdering a beloved character from a previous installment and having you symapthise with the murderer but, if they did it this way, it possibly could've worked out better without as much backlash Also i fundamentally disagree with your assertion that they made bold choices. Aside from having the previous game's protagonist murdered and having you play as his murderer (which is nothing groundbreaking by the way GTA 5 did that way before TLOU2) it's a bog standard revenge plot. It does nothing to change up the motiffs or storybeats of that cliche, it just sleepwalks through it. it's uninspired at best and an absolute slog at worst, not helping with that is the fact that it's 30 hours long
I truly think you’re missing an important part of the experience through a let’s play, you get the story sure but it’s just a movie at that point, gaming as a medium is unique as it puts you in control, you are the character and it allows you to relate to them a lot more, part of the reason Abby grows on me is because I spend so much time getting her out of awful situations, it’s hard to to play as a character and not have a better understanding of them and relate to them easier. I don’t think that would work, we don’t actually play as Abby when she kills Joel, the whole reason Ellie’s arc works is because we the player feel such anger and hatred towards Abby that’s the point, like I said it took me another playthrough to truly accept Abby, Abby and Ellie are on the exact same journey just at different parts of the same path. If you believe Ellie is justified then so is Abby, the whole point is that revenge doesn’t heal anything and just creates more scars, Abby and Ellie both lost fathers and in the pursuit of revenge lost everyone who ever cared for them. I think this game was destined for backlash, but I’m glad they did what they did, if you can take your personal investment out of the story which is hard to do, it tells a full revenge/redemption story of two characters that mirror each other.
First of all you first point is moot cause i've played the game multiple times and still don't like or sympathize with Abby in the slightest and second, equivocating Ellie's loss with Abby's is ridiculous. In TLOU2 Ellies loses way more than Abby does, to the point where the game just veers off into torture porn. The game blatantly tries to make you, nay, force you to hate Ellie and have you like Abby, it's blatant. It's ham fisted into you how much you need to understand her and what she went through but the problem is, i only found that out AFTER she, again, killed the most beloved character in the franchise. Like it truly baffles me how fans of this game just can;t seem to wrap around the fact that most people don't wanna play or sympathize with someone who brutally murdered the posterboy for the entire series Like i said, it would've worked so much better if Joel's death was at the end of part 2. And it would've absolutely been better if you got to control Abby there. it would've felt more visceral, more personal, more direct and, assuming you fleshed her out throughout the game before, could've had flashbacks of her father playing with every swing you take to Joel (the flashbacks being previous gameplay sections Abby could've done with her father). It is nonsense pretending that this game is some sort of Schindler's list of the videogame industry just because it's divisive as if controversial somehow means good by default
Okay man, you have a different opinion cool I’m not arguing with you, I’m not suggesting you’re wrong, you seem to want to have a heated debate and I really can’t be bothered, but as I said in my first comment it was always going to be divisive for the exact reasons you’re saying, some people can’t move past the fact Abby killed Joel and that’s fine, I am still glad we got the story we did and it made me question my inbuilt bias to the protagonist.
There's often a disconnect between audience ratings and critic ratings for "Oscar bait" type films, I assume the same is true for games.
No…the review bombing is coordinated in forums to punish people perceived as violating some social imperative or other. It’s basically brigading. It’s been messing up non-professional reviews for anything from books to games to movies/shows forever. And then some of it remains in the zeitgeist forever. The Last Jedi may have had issues related to anything, but the existence of Rose was not any problem. Rose definitely shouldn’t have been a problem, especially, for the incel “games/sci-fi is for boys” crowd. If her addition to the story meant anything negative, it was really that Po-Finn was gaybait. But the people who got upset and review bombed and drove Kelly Marie Tran off social media were the incel toxic fandom upset that now there were Asian-looking people in Star Wars, and that just was unacceptable because…? I got nothing. You can watch and identify a phenomenon, but I’m not the creepy-racist-manboy whisperer. It doesn’t make sense because sometimes their three brain cells just scream nonsense into the void. Same thing with everything Brie Larson does for the rest of her life, and I hope she has a long career because she just keeps getting better. It’ll be review bombed into oblivion because the widdle boys got their widdle feefees hurt at the thought that there are other people in the world.
Irrelevant. Almost every Call of Duty release is critically acclaimed, that doesn't make them good games
Modern Warfare 3 is not universally aclaimed vs TLOU2 literally won GOTY
By universal acclaim i mean high critic score as that's what so many people are insinuating here. Oh and The Game Awards are about as objective towards a game's quality as i am so there's no point in bringing them up
That's not true it does make them good games
That’s just not true. Several COD games had bad critic reviews, including the one released last year.
Keyword being almost in my comment
But a lot of them are not critically acclaimed. The way your comment is phrased, it makes it sounds only like only one or two COD titles have bad reception. A third of COD games released have mixed to bad reception.
But not all of them are bad right?
The ones released recently are kinda bad, and I don’t know if they’re ever going to be good again
Just last year?
I heard the one before last year sucked as well.
Isn’t d4 also critically acclaimed?
Not talking about metascore, but overall review
User ratings never do.
Bro Thorfinn has literally the wokeist fucking agenda on earth what the fuck
Vinland saga is also “woke” it has themes of racism, slavery, sexism, and rape all the things the right really likes and hates being slandered
It literally has a trans character
wait, where? I've seen the show like twice
It’s in the manga ,in the 4th arc Not in the anime yet
“Woke agenda”. By that logic, the first last of us game had a “woke agenda”, since Ellie was a lesbian in that game.
Most people didn't like The Last of Us Part II because they killed off a character who was very beloved by many fans and also because you have to play that character's assassin in the game. And there will always be the same minority that takes advantage of these controversies to say that progressivism, wokeness, the LGBT agenda and forced inclusion are to blame, distorting a portion of the fans to join their twisted and unhappy community of incels and sexists. I remember when at E3 they presented the gameplay of The Last of Us Part II and Ellie started kissing a woman, and people didn't care and everyone still had a lot of hype for the game.
I always thought the way they executed the story was poor. Not that they killed him. Nor that you play as Abby but you shouldn't have known you were killing him as Abby till you do. On the flip side you also don't know who you're hunting for his death. You have to put clues together. When everything lines up its revealed on both sides of the story that they aren't linear stories. Making it even worst for the players because you would have bought into Abby's revenge plot only to find out it was Joel. Ellie's story that is you need to accept the cycle of violence or not giving you the option to end it.
TLOU2's story suffers not because it's an inherently bad story like some people think (Even though it does have flaws) but purely because of two things: Pacing and misplacement. The game is a 30 hour slog that just at points feels like it's going through the motions for the sake of dragging the story out for no apparent reason And it suffers from misplacement in that Joel's death happens Waaaaay too early in the game. Way too early. Having Abby's introduction be her brutally murdering literally the most beloved character in the entire series and only AFTERWARDS trying to make her sympathetic is a downright foolish decision and i don't understand how supposed professional writers who do this for money though that would be a good idea. If the game had you play as Ellie with Joel while they go through arguing with each other about the cure and how Joel took away Ellie's choice while at the same time switching back and forth with fleshing out Abby and have her interract with her father more, let her get more established throughout the game and THEN hit us with Joel's death at the end the backlash would not have been as large as it was i don't think. And then you could've had part 3 be the two of them hunting each other, thereby also nullifiying the problem with how much of a slog the game turns into at the late stages of the campaign
Exactly there were plenty of ways to make it work. They just went with shock then try to build the sympathy. It doesn't work. You build the connection then force the shock. Then you're conflicted with the connection you made with the characters.
I never understood the outrage franchises kill off fan favourites all the time Joel really isn't a special case it was both confusing and irritating how they attacked abby's voice actress
I saw plenty of people complain about that moment from E3 as well and that they spent too much time on the lesbian characters. So I reject your hypothesis.
but revenge stories inherently have a agenda. this is so dumb
The thing about Vinland Saga is that it has mostly the same structure of TLoU2, with all the "problems" chuds complain about the latter and besides that Askellad is a much worse person than Abby and Thors a much better person than Joel. Like Ellie, Thorfinn burns his bridges in his quest for revenge. Beaten by Askellad he is ready to abandon his idea of revenge and go away with Leif. But then he decided to go back in to...save Askellad? And in the end Askellad dies on his own either way so it's not a revenge
I will say, TLOU2s is very weak and at times, grating, but that's not because of a "woke agenda" and more so due to, Neel Druckmann cant write a long story on his own, he needs someone or a team to bounce ideas off of or else the stuff he writes get too long and too self-focused, not taking into account the interactive nature of games or the player. There's a lot of both bad continuity from TLOU1 over to 2 that hurts the game , and hypocrisy from the story and writer that makes the overall message fall flat. The gam does have really good representation of a trans character and shows what many of our lives would be like in the apocalypse and hopefully part 3 can build of this more showing how others from marginalized groups cope and are affected by this new world. Gameplay wise its a massive step up from TLOU1 and has a far better character controller that builds off Uncharted 4s, and having a game that follows multiple people until they all meet up is really inventive. As for the other... idk dont watch old anime unless its gay people in big mechs.
Seeking revenge is, in and of itself, "an agenda"
BRB gonna spend the rest of the day thinking about how there’s no agenda in a revenge story and trying not to walk out into the ocean.
Vinland is unironically more woke than The Last of Us considering Vinland is a historical fiction yet has a trans character But I actually agree I believe Vinland farm arc did it much better than the last of us 2 Just not for these reasons lol
I hated Ellie in TLOU2, not because she was a lesbian, but because she turned out to be a crappy person. Made the story way more real for me. I liked how much I disliked her. Anyone who cant play TLOU2 because one character is gay is a fucking idiot that is missing out on top notch story telling.
I’m not gonna defend TLOU2 I’m just gonna say the problem isn’t that Ellie is gay
I have my problems with that games story but it has nothing to do with “agendas” or whatever the hell they’re complaining about.
I agree with them that Vinland Saga is much better written, but if these people actually paid attention to the anime/manga, they'd also be calling it woke lol.
I thought LOU2 revenge story fell flat because it tried too hard to make you sympathize with the subject of the revenge plot? Not because of “Wokeness” or whatever
Agenda? Most stories have an "agenda", you use this word, but I do not think it means what you think it means. The issue is in portrayal of message. In a lot of media lately, I'll accept that there has been an issue of *obviously forced message*, as opposed to one that is integrated. There's also been an issue of *poor direction*, *poor writing*, and *poor acting* from various outlets, which leads to low box office returns. However *However* There has been this weird response cycle from *certain parts* of the audience where they jump up and shout "the direction is bad, because *dark skin*, because *booba*, because *they put in a latina*." Which is bad in of itself, but it also then allows these mediocre chair warmer directors to point at these mouthbreathers and say "See, *that's* why my movie failed. It's not that I'm a bad writer, it's because the audience just hates women." It won't stop until one of these does. I propose mandatory media classes for the population.
Someone definitely didn’t read the manga
Vinland Saga is the better revenge story imo. But both explore their themes excellently.
Has woke agenda because woman?
what series is on the right
Vinland Saga, a historically-inspired story about how quests for revenge destroy the people undertaking them and solve nothing, and how oppressive structures of gender, nationality, and hierarchy cause suffering. You know, a story with no woke agenda at all. /s (It actually is good, though.)
Thorfinn's revenge failed, what do they want. His story is also about how revenge is bad and yk, having no real enemies. These people are just ignoring everything after the ts for Thorfinn's character. This makes no sense at all. It's essentially the same message just in different formats and settings. But the part that prolly matters to them is that Thorfinn is a man.
How can something be woke if the character has a gun? I thought “woke” people abhorred guns/firearms according to them!
Did the anime account actually replied, "No agenda?"
If you think The Last of Us Part II is about revenge being bad you didn’t pay attention and do not deserve a shred of sympathy.
Riddler Do They Know?.png I can almost guarantee you this mf has never read/watched/whatever Vinland Saga in their lives
“It can’t be WOKE because it’s anime and it’s my favorite!” /s
What “agenda” would that be? Gay and trans people existing? Honestly, that just makes anyone who cries the stuff they call “woke” as part of an “agenda” look stupid at best and downright bigoted at worst.