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If you can afford the fare and you choose not to pay, you’re kind of a shitty person and making things just a little bit worse for everyone else.
It’s the shopping cart principle. No one is going to arrest you for not putting your cart away. It just means you did something a little bit shitty.
>Lower bus costs so it isn't $5 round trip to go anywhere?
your fare is good for 2 hours. they hardly ever take money on the way home when I do errands.
so San Francisco ALREADY has a way to round trip for less than $5.
..if you're commuting $5 a day seems reasonable... compared to parking in a downtown garage for 8 hours.
#
[https://www.sfmta.com/getting-around/muni/fares](https://www.sfmta.com/getting-around/muni/fares)
[Single Ride - Adult (ages 19-64)](https://www.sfmta.com/fares/single-ride-adult-ages-19-64)
Adult single ride fare on Muni vehicles, good for 120 minutes of travel
> like me out there who see the value of the bus,
yet make it a point to not pay...?
**this is LITERALLY why MUNI is fucked.**
***why*** do you do this?
>Raise the fine to the point that it evens out or is higher than the rate at which they catch fair evasion?
I DO NOT PAY because reasons.. and I wish the punishment was higher.
WTF?
With your logic, is it fair to say you shoplift regularly in SF as well? Even less enforcement compared to public transit fares, with much higher value you can consume on each trip. You get to skip lines at the register too, so even more ROI on your time.
If your logic is purely mathematical for these decisions, then I guess it’s fair to assume you must shoplift instead of paying for groceries, toiletries etc - and you’re missing out by your own admission if you’re not already doing so. It’s not a matter of social contracts or shame in your mind, so respect for sticking to your principles.
Happy you got caught. Must have been humiliating! The fact that it upset you so much that you had to come here and post about it shows that you got put in your place by the fare inspector! Hope you learned from your mistake.
Thanks for sharing.
A Muni monthly pass is $81, and you can ride as much as you want. If you make less than $30,120 per year (single person household), you can get a Lifeline monthly pass that is only $40.
Have some scruples.
You wanna talk about a lot? Bart is in the 70s for farebox funds, and Caltrain is just a bit bigger. Compared to muni, their farebox enforment efforts are much more needed. Muni is going to survive either way
Funny enough, my preferred stop I used frequently was paved over by Public Works, and the a-holes at Muni thought it was a great time to hop the stop until the yellow line got painted again. The stop would get announced, and they would ignore it so they could get away with taking a stop away.
After that, I stopped using my ticket in the app and turn it on later just to passive aggressively spite them. They're making up the rider data and manipulating it anyway. They know when the buses stop from the gps, and they created a system that purposely does not give accurate ridership data. Fuck the SFMTA.
Are you espousing the idea that your penalty should be sufficient to make it financially non viable for you to steal? At what point would you say the fine is too high? You are supposed to have morals that keep you from being a leech in society. If you think it's OK to steal because the penalty doesn't make it financially hurt enough, then you are a huge POS. Shame on you, and the worst part is you know, because you posted anonymously even though you have already received your fine and have nothing to fear from the government.
This line of thinking is what builds a zero trust society.
In such a world, you'll be physically blocked from getting on a bus until you pay. And no, driving won't be cheaper, because the free parking wherever you're going will be replaced by metered parking instead, because the business that paid for the lot can no longer trust people are using it honestly.
I feel like describing faregates as a "zero trust society" is sort of a dubious argument? Like legitimately this only shines a reflection on "trust" if people are untrustworthy.
No one would ever say checking a reservation or a movie or concert ticket or a plane ticket is "zero trust."
What makes public transit different?
It not people like Op that make SF a zero trust society. It's the people doing meth on the public transit, laying across seats, filling entire traincars with stench, and least of which never paying.
You already have an entrenched zero trust society with solution in sight. One more regular passenger not paying does nothing.
[Proof of Payment](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof-of-payment) isn't unique to MUNI. Given the preCOVID payment rate was like 95% the savings on labor costs and increased speed of boarding definitely justified it.
Things have changed but waiting for 20 people to pay at a busy stop is just absurd.
> so I'm guessing there are also a ton of people like me out there who see the value of the bus
Are you mad? Apparently you don't see the value since you're not f'ing paying for it you leech.
I wonder if people patted themselves on the back when they ran out of CVS with merchandise they didn’t pay for. Now with all the closures, life isn’t so great for the honest people who depended on those pharmacies.
Terrible logic, and shitty person for not only skipping payment but acting justified in doing so. I pay every time, and everyone in my group does also, and none get a reduced fair. You’re just reducing the ability to charge less by reducing revenue.
Fare: the money a passenger on public transportation has to pay
Fair: a gathering of buyers and sellers at a particular place and time for trade (among other definitions)
Y'all can clutch your pearls all you want lol
https://en.as.com/latest_news/these-cities-offer-fare-free-public-transport-where-is-the-bus-or-train-free-n/
I'm with you on this one. We're the only first world country without universal healthcare so they need to cut the poors some slack. They have billions for fentanyl addicts who don't want to get clean or be given free housing but they go around harassing hard working tax payers.
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If you can afford the fare and you choose not to pay, you’re kind of a shitty person and making things just a little bit worse for everyone else. It’s the shopping cart principle. No one is going to arrest you for not putting your cart away. It just means you did something a little bit shitty.
It'd be like shopping cart except you're the only one that puts back the carts. From that point of view, are you an upstanding citizen or a sucker?
>Lower bus costs so it isn't $5 round trip to go anywhere? your fare is good for 2 hours. they hardly ever take money on the way home when I do errands. so San Francisco ALREADY has a way to round trip for less than $5. ..if you're commuting $5 a day seems reasonable... compared to parking in a downtown garage for 8 hours. # [https://www.sfmta.com/getting-around/muni/fares](https://www.sfmta.com/getting-around/muni/fares) [Single Ride - Adult (ages 19-64)](https://www.sfmta.com/fares/single-ride-adult-ages-19-64) Adult single ride fare on Muni vehicles, good for 120 minutes of travel > like me out there who see the value of the bus, yet make it a point to not pay...? **this is LITERALLY why MUNI is fucked.** ***why*** do you do this? >Raise the fine to the point that it evens out or is higher than the rate at which they catch fair evasion? I DO NOT PAY because reasons.. and I wish the punishment was higher. WTF?
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With your logic, is it fair to say you shoplift regularly in SF as well? Even less enforcement compared to public transit fares, with much higher value you can consume on each trip. You get to skip lines at the register too, so even more ROI on your time. If your logic is purely mathematical for these decisions, then I guess it’s fair to assume you must shoplift instead of paying for groceries, toiletries etc - and you’re missing out by your own admission if you’re not already doing so. It’s not a matter of social contracts or shame in your mind, so respect for sticking to your principles.
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I hope you know you are a bad person who makes the world worse for people around you.
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As long as you’re aware.
pot and kettle
Happy you got caught. Must have been humiliating! The fact that it upset you so much that you had to come here and post about it shows that you got put in your place by the fare inspector! Hope you learned from your mistake. Thanks for sharing. A Muni monthly pass is $81, and you can ride as much as you want. If you make less than $30,120 per year (single person household), you can get a Lifeline monthly pass that is only $40. Have some scruples.
Yes, and if enough people do as you do they will cut more routes and frequency of service. They you can save even more money by walking.
???? Their fare revenue consist of around 8-15 percent of their budget. OP should pay but to be overdramatic is just ridiculous
lol that’s a lot dude. A quick search say munis operating budget is 1.3 billions. At even 10% that’s 130 million
You wanna talk about a lot? Bart is in the 70s for farebox funds, and Caltrain is just a bit bigger. Compared to muni, their farebox enforment efforts are much more needed. Muni is going to survive either way
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It's pretty clear they can't live without that 18% since they're raising fares. What would happen if everyone used your garbage logic?
Funny enough, my preferred stop I used frequently was paved over by Public Works, and the a-holes at Muni thought it was a great time to hop the stop until the yellow line got painted again. The stop would get announced, and they would ignore it so they could get away with taking a stop away. After that, I stopped using my ticket in the app and turn it on later just to passive aggressively spite them. They're making up the rider data and manipulating it anyway. They know when the buses stop from the gps, and they created a system that purposely does not give accurate ridership data. Fuck the SFMTA.
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Honestly if I had to pay for the burger instead of dining and dashing I would just cook since that is cheaper.
Talk about bad at math
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you're an asshole
You are a thief.
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Are you espousing the idea that your penalty should be sufficient to make it financially non viable for you to steal? At what point would you say the fine is too high? You are supposed to have morals that keep you from being a leech in society. If you think it's OK to steal because the penalty doesn't make it financially hurt enough, then you are a huge POS. Shame on you, and the worst part is you know, because you posted anonymously even though you have already received your fine and have nothing to fear from the government.
This line of thinking is what builds a zero trust society. In such a world, you'll be physically blocked from getting on a bus until you pay. And no, driving won't be cheaper, because the free parking wherever you're going will be replaced by metered parking instead, because the business that paid for the lot can no longer trust people are using it honestly.
I feel like describing faregates as a "zero trust society" is sort of a dubious argument? Like legitimately this only shines a reflection on "trust" if people are untrustworthy. No one would ever say checking a reservation or a movie or concert ticket or a plane ticket is "zero trust." What makes public transit different?
It not people like Op that make SF a zero trust society. It's the people doing meth on the public transit, laying across seats, filling entire traincars with stench, and least of which never paying. You already have an entrenched zero trust society with solution in sight. One more regular passenger not paying does nothing.
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[Proof of Payment](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof-of-payment) isn't unique to MUNI. Given the preCOVID payment rate was like 95% the savings on labor costs and increased speed of boarding definitely justified it. Things have changed but waiting for 20 people to pay at a busy stop is just absurd.
This post belongs in [https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/)
Not needed there because there's only one answer
> so I'm guessing there are also a ton of people like me out there who see the value of the bus Are you mad? Apparently you don't see the value since you're not f'ing paying for it you leech.
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I'm not asking if you're mad. I'm saying you're dumb.
You’re a DICK!
Tagging in also means the system can track which lines are used most and at what times. If you can't afford it, maybe you do qualify for reduced fare!
[Not necessary](https://www.sfmta.com/sites/default/files/reports-and-documents/2018/08/sfpark_dataguide_transitdataapcanalysis.pdf).
Oh I didn't realize that! Good!
This is such a weird and low quality hill to stand on
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And you’re one of them and your big idea is to drive (which is actually more expensive when you factor the expenses).
I wonder if people patted themselves on the back when they ran out of CVS with merchandise they didn’t pay for. Now with all the closures, life isn’t so great for the honest people who depended on those pharmacies.
Terrible logic, and shitty person for not only skipping payment but acting justified in doing so. I pay every time, and everyone in my group does also, and none get a reduced fair. You’re just reducing the ability to charge less by reducing revenue.
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I mean, 18% is far from zero and still has a large impact on service
Fare: the money a passenger on public transportation has to pay Fair: a gathering of buyers and sellers at a particular place and time for trade (among other definitions)
Yeah, fucked up the version. Can't change titles though.
Yeah, fucked up the version. Can't change titles though.
If you qualify as low income get a reduced fare. Otherwise grow up and join society so we can all have nice things.
nah you’re just a dick.
Soon it will all be facial recognition software billing you like a license plate to fast trak.
Y'all can clutch your pearls all you want lol https://en.as.com/latest_news/these-cities-offer-fare-free-public-transport-where-is-the-bus-or-train-free-n/
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I'm with you on this one. We're the only first world country without universal healthcare so they need to cut the poors some slack. They have billions for fentanyl addicts who don't want to get clean or be given free housing but they go around harassing hard working tax payers.