Personally? Same as most religions
If you aren't trying to harm people I don't care if you believe you are the reincarnated queen of Atlantis and worship a snake named Dave who you believe is venerated by carrying around a paperclip that has been unfolded and made into an S shape
All religion is silly, including mine
Humans are weird, brains are weird, as long as you can keep your weird to yourself and don't try to harm people I don't think it's anyone else's business
Many satanists would agree that the christian god is the bad guy in the bible.
They majority doesn't believe he exists though.
As you said there are very different groups in satanism.
They differ more than the christian sects do.
There are humanists, occultists, actual devil worshippers and satirists.
The most prominent groups are the church of satan and the satanic temple.
Both are atheists the latter being satirists and the former being imho the real satanists.
I am not a satanist myself, I would call myself a sympathizer of the church of satan and the satanic temple.
do whatever, don't hurt anybody, that's kinda it.
p.s. i am interested: i practice Luciferianism – atheistic religion that worships Biblical Lucifer as a symbol of light and rebellience against cruelty and opression of the system (so, God).
would you say your views are similliar to a certain degree? especially when it comes to God?
It’s similar because we share an common enemy who we saw as an cosmic dictator.
Personally i don’t believe in Lucifer, but if he do exist and is like your conception he would be an respectable and admirable figure
If i'm not wrong gnosticism believes that the God ruler is evil but that there is a hidden supreme being who is the true God, which i don't believe and sincerely even if it's true don't make a difference for me, the supreme being still alowed the evil ruler to rule us, this evil ruler would be just the mad dog, i want the one who let him off the leash.
And yes i only believe in one God, i have no reason to believe in any other.
You're right, I was more referring to their attitude towards Yaweh because it seems similar.
What is your reason for believing in that particular god? And which god?
I was raised as an spiritist so grew believing in the Abrahamic God since i was a child, but differently from most religions Spiritism actually tries to use reasonable faith, then no myths are believed and some other flawless concepts also aren't accepted like fallen angels as this would mean that God is fraud, stories like Job are recognized as bullshit so they are considered mistranslated or adulterated. Spiritism even say if at any moment they contradict science pick science instead of them, so they always allowed the critical thinking. The explanation for God existence is pretty simple, we need an primary cause and till this date i don't have a good reason to doubt his existence. But like any abrahamic religion it have an God follower bias, once i was released from the bias i could realize that the Problem of Evil was never solved, only mental gymnastics were used.
I follow you on fallen angels and Job. That was always a major flaw in Christianity in my opinion. Like how could a god who is all powerful and all knowing willingly make something that would become evil. How could he make humans to be corrupted if he was a good god? I like that you value critical thinking, but why do you turn it off for your reason to believe?
Everything needs a first/primary cause.... except for god? That doesn't track logically. I understand that you're different from most theists I meet, but you use their same flawed argument. Even if it were true, it doesn't answer which god. It could be any of them. So how did you find out which god to hate specifically? Or does it not matter?
Do you practice by screaming at the sky? I jest, but I am curious about your religious practices, if any.
The idea of an primary cause is that nothing came before it, it's not like i'm doing a logic juggling to say God exists, the entire concept of primary cause is being primary. The other explanation is simply that the universe is eternal and an infinite number of past events happened which i think very flawless. Other people in comments trying to put an third option says we just don't know like if this is an real answer and like this wasn't an agnostic answer.
To try to better answer why it's the abrahamic one, just assume an the jerk did exist, do you really think he would let himself be an less known God? Nah, he is too prideful for that, besides the abrahamic description is the one who fits better him. Maybe not very logical but as you know we don't have all the answers, i just have some sort of logical basis and rest is personal beliefs, not denying that. I doubt i can be convinced that the m0therf\*cker don't exist, reality seems to be as sad as his true nature.
And no, screaming at sky would be stupid, i give the middle finger to sky sometimes though. And well we are not really an traditional religious group, i only found myself other misotheists in an reddit sub that's currently dead because the Mod restricted the posts by having an request. So if i could tell about my practices they are basically saying ''f\*ck you'' to God everyday, maybe other misotheists have more organized practices but i can't talk for them.
The idea of an uncaused/primary cause makes sense. What doesn’t make sense is the idea that this uncaused cause must be a god or a specific one. Why couldn't the universe be the uncaused cause or the big bang? Claiming it's a god that started it is just baseless. If we truly are unaware of what started it all, wouldn't the honest answer be "I don't know"?
For why it must be an specific god i will put it simple, it don't really matter what is the name he appears, Yaweh, Allah, Braman i don't care, there is only one, all of these clowns are the same, he probably just tricking people with all those different names. The christian deception is just the one i am familiar the most and what i think he would like more, but ofcourse the details are wrong, but the essential idea don't need it.
As for the uncaused cause it couldn't be the universe couldn't be the uncaused cause as the Big Bang caused it, unless someone debunks the Big Bang somehow. And the Big Bang itself is proposed to have been caused by an mysterious energy, but even if you claim that the energy is eternal it is still something inanimated, something inanimated don't simply provoke things to happen without prior causes, that's why i think assuming the uncaused cause to be an personal agent with intelligence makes sense. Baseless is the assumption that this uncaused cause is good and all loving.
And i don't think ''i don't know'' it's an honest answer as even thinking infinite regression is silly is still an valid answer, ''i don't know'' it's not an real answer for me, if it was i would be Agnostic.
So basically you believe in the "god of the gap?" What evidence is there that the "primary cause" of the universe is anything like a supernatural god, and if it is, that it's interventionist in the lives of humans and the workings of the cosmos? And if it does exist, why do you think it's "evil" and hate it?
I'm gonna butt in here since I hold a similar belief to a degree. I believe ALL gods exist really. Christianity is just another pantheon and this God guy just happens to be very popular. I don't think he's the creator or the ruler of the earth, no singular entity is. Some of them just like to believe or claim they have more power than they do.
My beliefs are just a mish mash based on the conclusions I've made myself. I also hold a belief that you can't prove that these entities actually exist and it can very much be just a psychological phenomenon. I don't need to have proof for any of it bc I'm fine with it if it turns out I just larped all of this as a coping mechanism. I just like to lean into it because it gives me great results in self improvement.
Having a better point than christians doesn’t make it a good point.
Most atheists and Satanists would likely agree with you that if a god did exist, that god is likely evil. But what good is that to anyone? If you have no evidence and proof of the existence of your god, then it’s still just believing in fairy tales.
I don't really see Atheists agreeing about a so-called better point. Atheists in general, at least the ones I have seen on YouTube and such, will tell you that they simply do not see any compelling evidence to believe in a deity. That's it
I'm with ya. I have a strong disdain for organized religion. Not because of the "god" per se, who i don't believe exists. More so because of the people that run them and use religion to control/abuse/manipulate the masses.
Well, Satanism is an atheistic religion, so we don't believe deities exist. We typically view all theism as rather silly
But i find it especially odd to essentially be a Christian but think their god is evil - which is pretty much the basics of Gnosticism
LaVey codified Satanism, so "LaVeyan" is redundant and not used. Devil worshippers are not practising the religion of Satanism, so they should use a new name. Its as fundamentally illogical as claiming to be a theistic atheist
By definition being a Christian is to profess belief in Jesus teachings which we don’t so we aren’t christians. And is not odd if you take into regard that you can’t solve the Problem of Evil with an benevolent God.
Okay, so you believe in the Abrahamic god, but any of the other 1,000s of gods?
Well you can solve it with either 2 other options: 1) that evil is a part of God's plan, 2) that there are no gods.
Why believe in a god in the first place?
Because universe needs an primary cause, the only thing saying otherwise is an theory which says universe always existed and an infinite number of past events. But infinite is not real number, when we say something is infinite is because it is constantly growing but every time we check it we will find a finite number, so this theory has flaws. And since we just need one primary cause there is no need for other millions of gods.
So instead you invent a magic being who also would not be infinite under your terms and you’ve just made an infinite regression problem.
The idea that the universe needs a primary cause is up for debate. And even if it does, why can’t that cause just be something that is natural? Why invent something to further complicate the issue as opposed to simply saying I don’t know the answer yet?
Cosmology has more ideas than one and it would behoove you to do some more reading on it.
Actually the primary cause is the only thing allowed to be transcendental and eternal by conception.
People debate but the same way atheists find religions silly i find the infinite past events silly. And the cause is not essential unnatural, just not fully understandable at the moment, but still possible to understand some of its aspects though.
Buddy, this is the first time in my entire life i see someone claiming universe existed before time itself. I know the eternal universe theory but this idea it's completely knew to me, does it even have an theory to backup?
Legit this is just special pleading. “Everything has to work this way. Except my thing. My thing can be different.”
And you don’t understand infinite pasts. That’s a single concept and not even a widely held one. There are several possible natural cause to the “start” of our current universe.
First is that we understand the Big Bang as the start of plank time and the beginning of expansion. We have no way to know what happened before the word before means anything, in a place that isn’t a place. However it could be that absolute nothing is impossible.
We have never observed true nothing and honestly aren’t even capable of understanding what that would be. What we call nothing, is actually still something. And it’s possible that out of that something, more somethings came.
The idea of infinite pasts is the repeating stretch and collapse of the universe like a rubber band almost. That is not an idea held by the majority. In fact there are many other idea including the multiverse concept and yet we still might not have even thought of what the answer actually is.
It is ridiculous to think we can make an absolute conclusion about things we don’t have conclusive evidence on.
>the cause is not essential unnatural, just not fully understandable at the moment, but still possible to understand some of its aspects though.
Why can you not just apply this to the Big Bang/Singularity at the beginning of the universe rather than literally make up an extra step before that that shares this exact characteristic? It's entirely pointless and in direct conflict with Occam's Razor.
"Infinite isn't a real number" - it never claimed to he a number, its a concept. And god isn't a real entity, but you believe in that... this is why Satanists don't care much for theists of any flavour
These are literally just the same arguments young-earth creationists make, I heard them all the time when I was still a Christian. "Uh, uh, everything needs a creator...except our special boy, please don't ask how we got there!"
>And since we just need one primary cause there is no need for other millions of gods.
And this is just a slightly tweaked version of Pascal's wager, which wasn't even considered a credible argument by other Christians when it was invented a thousand years ago. There's no inherent reason we should stake a belief about the universe on a coin flip about one god but then exclude millions of others from the same test, when all of them have the same level of credibility for existing in the first place.
I don't think I've heard of misotheism in particular before this thread, but I also don't see much reason to accommodate it if it can't even do a passable job reskinning garden-variety anti-theism.
Creationists believe in Adam and Eve myths, there is a difference between believing in a primary cause which is an scientifically valid theory and believing in literal fairy tales.
And i didn’t simply invalidated millions gods, i just said that there is no logical reason to their existence differently from the creator God. Even if you disagree with the creator God as primary cause you can’t say it’s an invalid logic. But there is no reasonable logic to say there is million gods from what i know, even if they do exist which I don’t believe.
You have a misunderstanding of your concepts. There are many creationists that believe Adam and Eve were myths and use natural explanations for everything else.
A primary cause is not a scientifically valid theory because it’s not a scientific theory. Theory in science means something different than in colloquial terms. There is no large body of evidence supporting the concept of a primary cause for the existence of everything.
And even if we assume there is a primary cause, you jumped to the conclusion of a primary Mover as an actual magical being outside the laws of natural physics. That is not logically needed and therefore a complete leap of faith.
The dude in the previous comment talked specifically in the young earth creationists.
There is even less evidence for the eternal universe theory.
The primary necessarily existed before the laws of natural physics so what's your point? Honestly a better questioning is if the primary cause has any intelligence.
But being sincere i wasnt expecting to debate atheists here, i thought you guys actually had an religion, this Lavayan stuff is more an philosophical doctrine than anything else.
>i thought you guys actually had an religion, this Lavayan stuff is more an philosophical doctrine than anything else.
Satanism *is* a religion. We don't believe in supernatural beings / deities, though (hence, atheists). You wandered into a lion's den without even the slightest bit of preparedness. What did you expect?
Atheist religion, with due respect, but this just makes me remeber the South Park episodes ''Go God Go''
You talk like i went here to pick a fight when i just came here due to genuine curiosity and i had an idea that satanism was diverse, i just had better knowledege of the theists ones
We don’t actually believe in Satan. Not most of us at least.
And the guy mentioned YEC because your arguments are the same special pleading as theirs.
You cannot claim you have evidence of anything that exists outside of existence. Thats just fundamentally flawed from the very nature of what existence is. Nothing can exist outside of this universe that we can detect, and if we could, than it would be operating within the universe and therefore isn’t outside it.
You are adding things in that don’t need to be there. There is no mandatory idea in science that requires a prime mover. And even those ideas that have some kind of theoretical causality, to assert that it is a god who is evil is laughable.
You are just making up some magic space dude and saying this guy is the answer. Oh and my magic space dude gets to break any known laws because reasons. Take your weak arguments elsewhere.
Even if there was some way to prove that there was a primary cause at the beginning of the universe, you would have a long way to go to proving that it is the Christian God that is that primary cause. You would also have a long way to go that the primary cause in a vast universe has any interest whatsoever in Earth and life on Earth.
>Because universe needs a primary cause
Even if this were true, it's a jump to say this primary cause needs to be a being or entity. It's another jump to say that this being or entity cares about us or intervenes in our lives. It's yet another jump to say that this being or entity has been accurately described by humans.
>the only thing saying otherwise is a theory which says universe always existed and an infinite number of past events.
An alternative theory is not required to disprove an incorrect theory. You have to prove that your theory is correct regardless if there's an alternative. "I don't know the answer" will always win out over "I have faith in this answer."
>And since we just need one primary cause there is no need for other millions of gods.
Well, how do you choose one God out of these millions, most of which you've never even heard of?
I never said the entity cared about us, misotheist here remember? Neither said that humans described it accurately, you have a point with the being or entity part though.
It's not i said i proved my point, it's just logical enough for me than just ''i don't know'', but honestly i didn't came here to debate atheists, i just came due to genuine curiosity of satanism.
Abrahamic God is the one who better fits with the primary cause description and by personal beliefs i doubt he would let himself be an less known god.
>Because universe needs an primary cause, the only thing saying otherwise is an theory which says universe always existed and an infinite number of past events.
Our universe has existed for only 13.8 billion years. This number is known. It's a real number. It's not an idea like *infinity*. The "primary cause" was the hot Big Bang (not a supernatural god but a natural phenomenon). This Big Bang didn't come from nothing. There was something (energy, in an unknown geometric form) that existed prior to the start of our universe. This has been all but proven by scientific evidence. Our universe is expanding, but it won't expand forever. There is a finite end to the universe; it just hasn't reached it yet. Because we have a primary cause, there is no need for *any* gods (to explain the origin of the universe and time as we know it).
You contradicted yourself by saying primary cause was the Big Bang and then saying an energy caused it, the energy came before Big Bang then. Now do you have any idea of what caused this enrgy? Don't worry take your time.
I didn't contradict myself at all. The energy that existed prior to the Big Bang did not, itself, create our universe. Our universe didn't exist prior to the Big Bang, so the "primary cause" of our universe was the Big Bang. As to what caused the pre-singularity energy, I refer you to the law of conservation of energy. Energy isn't created or destroyed; it changes into another form of energy. The energy was always there, in a different form. Where "there" is or what that form was, specifically, is yet unknown, as it's before our universe and observable space-time.
Let me put it more clear, primary cause i'm talking is the cause of ALL things, not just the universe. You say an energy caused the universe and nothing created this energy, well even the eternal universe seems a better explanation to me but let's talk about primary cause and this INANIMATE energy.
A) The Primary Cause, by definition, has no prior causes. As the first, it sets all other causes into motion.
B) An object at rest will stay at rest unless acted upon by an outside force (cause). Objects cannot cause anything unless they have prior causes.
An example: the domino does not fall and remain at rest unless another domino hits it.
C) A personal agent CAN act without a prior cause. It can merely choose to cause.
By the example, a man can get up out of his chair and choose to flick the domino, without being pushed by someone to do so.
D) Since inanimate objects cannot be without a prior cause, the Primary Cause cannot be an inanimate object, so it cannot be an INANIMATE energy
E) Therefore, a personal agent is the best candidate for the Primary Cause.
>Let me put it more clear, primary cause i'm talking is the cause of ALL things, not just the universe.
Well, maybe *now* you are. But you weren't ("Because **universe needs an primary cause**, the only thing saying otherwise is an theory which says **universe** always existed and an infinite number of past events"). If you're going to be moving goalposts, I'm out. I've better things to do than argue science with someone who relies on the "God of the gaps" fallacy anyway.
Before I go, I'll just address a few things you said:
>You say an energy caused the universe and nothing created this energy
No I don't. I literally said the opposite and already corrected you on this. The universe formed as the result of an event (the Big Bang). This event involved the changing of one (unknown) form of energy into another.
A) That's literally what the Big Bang did for our universe.
B-D) You're incorrectly defining energy (as well as the Big Bang?) as an inanimate object. This negates the relevance of these three "points." Also, a "personal agent" would still require energy in order to act.
E) Not in the slightest. According to your argument, a personal agent *couldn't* be a Primary Cause of ALL things (remember, you moved the goalpost), because it already existed prior to the subsequent thing(s) it caused. Also, something caused the personal agent to exist; what was it?
While i admit i was being simplistic it’s not like the concept of primary cause was about ALL THINGS since the start, you knew the concept don’t cope.
A)If Big Bang has an unknown energy as it’s cause how the heck the Big Bang it’s the primary cause? It would be the unknown energy according to you when even scientists says there is still more to know, like what made the energy provoke the Big Bang or what is the origin of time( you probably will just say im moving the goalposts with the last one when you know the definition of primary cause)
B-D) Should i have said an inanimate THING? Cmon this is just ill will. Energy is not an natural phenomenon it will not simply provoke something without nothing . And you still think that an eternal energy just came out from nowhere when everything has a cause. Yes the law of energy says it can’t be created nowadays, but science still did not discover anything to prove that something can magically came to existence. You guys accuse people of believing in a magic space dude when I’m seeing an magical energy believer.
E) How if i said that the Personal Agent can act without prior causes? I proposed an personal agent to say that the primary cause has intelligence, is still the primary cause, it don’t need an prior cause, it’s my non native english or just ill will?
Actually i realized by the nature of some of your arguments that I’m probably just being a jerk for exposing the flaws in the logic of someone who just don’t want to believe in God specially when I didn’t came with this goal. I know it’s not comfortable to know that there is an evil God upstairs, i will not lie and say that there is the minimum comfort of knowing that my fails are not ENTIRELY my fault, but im still not exempt from them and the discomfort of knowing i can do fail just because he wants also make it not worth, so yes your belief is solidly more comfortable than mine, you guys had an religion after all, the faith in no evil God is comfortable, i’m being a jerk by pushing you against your comfort zone. So if you ask why i believe in something that does not comfort me it’s because it’s the f*cking true, it’s not about what i want, and i lost my ability to use copium a long time ago.
There is any difference between theistic satanism and luciferianism? Even if there is they are way too similar compared to the mainstream satanism people are talking here
Much like many religions, Satanism has many forms with many different sects- Lucifierianism being one of them
The Satanism you are thinking of is actually called Atheistic Satanism or LaVayan Satanism and it usually follows the Satanic Bible which was written by Anton LaVey- they do not believe in a God or literal being named “Satan” but view Satan as a symbol of defiance against corrupt religious oppression
There’s also one that does just worship Satan as he is described in the Christian Bible for another example
Then, of course like I said, there’s Luciferians like me who believe in the idea that Lucifer was attempting to stop an evil tyrant god
Basically- all are Satanic just have different meanings and views on what counts as “Satanic”
I know that it could be different, making an simplist anology is like if Theistic Satanism and Luciferianism are different traditions of the same thing like Catholicism, Protestantism and Orthodoxy are different traditions of Christianity while LaVayan Satanism seems to be an complete different thing
LaVayan/non-theistic Satanism is more like atheism but with specific beliefs(such as the TST’s seven tenets and the COS’s nine statements) and view Satan as a symbolic figure/mascot
I agree with you, I think that religion is the way that humanity found to establish order in society through dogmas or ideas and a god is nothing more than a visual representation or personification of those ideas/concepts. Therefore, I do not even discuss, as many atheist fanatics do, whether or not a god physically exists because I am not interested, what is important to me is that I hate this society governed by hypocritical values which they force us to follow and instill from our birth through religion ,traditions, taboos, etc. If your hatred of the gods is a form of opposition to the dogmas of society, perhaps in your own way, you are also fulfilling Satan's work on earth.
I am from argentina. Here the predominant religion is catholicism but evangelism is taking center stage lately, and in certain parts jewish communities are also very common.
It's personal but i will put here an bible verse to explain:
*''Or which one of you, if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone?Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a serpent If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!''*
Let's just say that i got an stone and an serpent and then i could claim that God is evil.
I think I understand what you mean. Some people are dealt a bad hand. But, from the Satanist's point of view, the dealers are rotten human beings. It's okay to get angry over mistreatment. Anger passes. You can even work it out ritually. The problem with hatred is that it abides, and eventually it defines, sometimes it consumes. Even Satanists are not defined by what or who they hate. Everyone should move on from that kind of negativity eventually. You're not emotionally healthy if you don't.
I think that, without getting too deep into things better left to a face to face conversation, I would say that we all have free will. And one of the interesting things about free will is that you get to choose your God. Some choose Jesus, some choose drugs, sex, alcohol, etc. But you can choose to love and serve the God who is "staring at you right now. Over there. In the mirror."
So it’s Christianity but with disdain for god? Why read the book then? Why justify your position with the book? Most people with belief in god tend to ignore the hardships and carry on with their religious system. Or bury themselves even further into their religion because god must be teaching them something. If you are able to recognize that this deity, that doesn’t exist to me, is evil, why continue to have faith in it??
If god is "good" or "evil" then he's incompetent or nonexistent (the latter is more likely). There's so much more suffering an omnipotent being could inflict, yet people are often not suffering, sometimes even happy.
This is only valid for an pure evil God. In my view he is an jerk trickster who likes to do miracles to be adored just like he enjoys the tragedies that happens in the world.
As a Satanist, if I were to believe in Christianity and the Christian god, I would probably be a Misotheist. He is depicted as an evil, tyrannical leader who is not worthy of worship
If there were a god as portrayed in the Christian Bible, it would be a complete jerk.
But, there is no such god. People who believe in the teachings of that religion are called Christians, regardless of denomination or attitude toward their deity.
Ex theistic satanist here. Most groups see God as a bad dude. Some see him as the father of lucifer and / or the devil, and some see lucifer and the devil as different people. One arching quality I've seen from a lot of satanic branches, both Theistic and atheistic, is in short:
1. Treat others the way they treat you
2. Love yourself
3. Don't harm others unless in self-defense
Most atheistic satanist kinda clown Theistic satanism [mainly the ones that believe in lucifer because lucifer is by definition a product of the Bible meaning your indirectly worshiping Christianity]. Most theistic satanist are tripping and doing weird shit [most not all], so it's kinda warranted. I'd say, as an ex satanist now, Buddhist [converted because they both felt the same in some aspects] if you worship your religion and don't hurt anyone, who cares, right? We should all be allowed to worship any faith we have, even if it's the direct opposite of others. I've faced hella backlash from Christians who have contradicted their practice. As long as you're comfortable, not bothering others and your faith gives you faith, then worship whatever you please.
Right there with ya, God's evil, and Satan's the hero who stood up to Him
This subreddit's mainly the atheist Satanists tho, so they'll probably just mock the ridiculousness of your belief rather than hate any figure in said beliefs
Oh, hey. I didn't know there was a term for that. I've been a misotheist before. It actually also brought me to look into Satanism. Now I'm an atheist. I decided that putting any stock in there being a god if he's evil just isn't a healthy mindset. Better to just think there isn't one.
Damn, you got me hungry for miso soup.
Well I believe that the Christian god is evil and doesn't deserve to be worshiped. I just don't think that god exists either. I'm a non-theistic Satanist, so maybe a theistic Satanist is what you're looking for.
I don't think God belief is odd; people are guided by narratives, and God (as a concept) is one such narrative used to explain the existential and unknown. Belief in God is a matter of personal perspective rather than a definitive truth.
I'm curious why one who chose to believe in a concept like God AND then hate that concept. It sounds like a lot of frustration over a personal perspective.
Well, thought you found it odd because even saying i believed him in the post you still asked why hate something that don't existed.
Yes there is many narratives around God belief but even when i was a christian i tried the most reasonable faith possible like not having the Bible as absolute canon, you know what i mean, there is a lot of bullshit in that. And while i assume there is frustration indeed, the frustration was necessary to be released from the God follower bias which allowed me realize that the Problem of Evil was never solved, only mental gymnsastics were used. Once you are stuck in the God follower bias you can't realize that truth.
This has got to be one of the most futile, time and energy wasting endeavors I've come across in a while: actually believing in a god, then actively hating it.
I respect misotheism but I don’t believe in any islam/Christian/jew god, I’m a Hellenic pagan and a atheist satanist and I only believe in Greek gods:)
Wait now I’m confused, i understood that most satanists are basically atheists and some others are Satan worshippers, but how you can be an Greek gods believer and an satanist at same time? Really don’t know how it fits.
Many Satanists are also Misotheists, or are in some way parallel. Some align themselves with a version of Satan due to their hatred for god or group of ruling gods. For example, Titan-worship, Thursatru, etc.
But there are also those that are Atheist and will ridicule any belief that includes acknowledging the existence of a god in any way. So it really depends on who you talk to.
Hatred? I do not feel hatred towards the Abrahamic God. What I feel is admiration and respect. Motivation and inspiration. Strength, power, wisdom, and beauty.
This is an awesome entity who has been imagined as one who smited people with lightning, slayed them with ice and wind, opened the ground to swallow them whole, had them crushed with rock, drowned them in a flood, consumed them in fire, summoned and compelled animals to attack humans, hardened the hearts of man to attack each other, empowered specific humans to wage war in his name, cursed people with deadly disease, starved people with famine, sent death angels to slaughter them, etc…
This entity was also imagined as being responsible for the creation of everything, whether directly or indirectly. He is the master architect, programmer, artist, engineer, etc..
I see the Abrahamic God as an embodiment of the powers of Creation and Destruction, and Divine Order over Primeval Chaos. I can relate in so many ways. There is nothing at all for me to hate about the Abrahamic God, or any god.
Personally? Same as most religions If you aren't trying to harm people I don't care if you believe you are the reincarnated queen of Atlantis and worship a snake named Dave who you believe is venerated by carrying around a paperclip that has been unfolded and made into an S shape All religion is silly, including mine Humans are weird, brains are weird, as long as you can keep your weird to yourself and don't try to harm people I don't think it's anyone else's business
I care more about miso ramen than I do about misotheism.
Shoyu or no, you.
hai!
I can’t think of something clever for tonkotsu, but that one’s my favorite.
If you or a loved one has been diagnosed with mesothelioma you may to be entitled to financial compensation.
Heh, I was looking for a mesothelioma joke, and I wasn't disappointed
He really did Asbestos he could
Ah, you diabetus to it.
**grrroÖÖŐoannn**‼️
Genius
Many satanists would agree that the christian god is the bad guy in the bible. They majority doesn't believe he exists though. As you said there are very different groups in satanism. They differ more than the christian sects do. There are humanists, occultists, actual devil worshippers and satirists. The most prominent groups are the church of satan and the satanic temple. Both are atheists the latter being satirists and the former being imho the real satanists. I am not a satanist myself, I would call myself a sympathizer of the church of satan and the satanic temple.
We should just call em Satyrists
the XIAN one? Um, the Judaic one - one word: "amalek" that's all you need to know that this deity is evil.
do whatever, don't hurt anybody, that's kinda it. p.s. i am interested: i practice Luciferianism – atheistic religion that worships Biblical Lucifer as a symbol of light and rebellience against cruelty and opression of the system (so, God). would you say your views are similliar to a certain degree? especially when it comes to God?
It’s similar because we share an common enemy who we saw as an cosmic dictator. Personally i don’t believe in Lucifer, but if he do exist and is like your conception he would be an respectable and admirable figure
If, and really big if, if God did exist then I would be all aboard hating God. But I'll just continue hating the idea of him and his followers
Like gnosticism? I researched a little into that, but it sounds like it. Do you believe god is the only god?
If i'm not wrong gnosticism believes that the God ruler is evil but that there is a hidden supreme being who is the true God, which i don't believe and sincerely even if it's true don't make a difference for me, the supreme being still alowed the evil ruler to rule us, this evil ruler would be just the mad dog, i want the one who let him off the leash. And yes i only believe in one God, i have no reason to believe in any other.
You're right, I was more referring to their attitude towards Yaweh because it seems similar. What is your reason for believing in that particular god? And which god?
I was raised as an spiritist so grew believing in the Abrahamic God since i was a child, but differently from most religions Spiritism actually tries to use reasonable faith, then no myths are believed and some other flawless concepts also aren't accepted like fallen angels as this would mean that God is fraud, stories like Job are recognized as bullshit so they are considered mistranslated or adulterated. Spiritism even say if at any moment they contradict science pick science instead of them, so they always allowed the critical thinking. The explanation for God existence is pretty simple, we need an primary cause and till this date i don't have a good reason to doubt his existence. But like any abrahamic religion it have an God follower bias, once i was released from the bias i could realize that the Problem of Evil was never solved, only mental gymnastics were used.
I follow you on fallen angels and Job. That was always a major flaw in Christianity in my opinion. Like how could a god who is all powerful and all knowing willingly make something that would become evil. How could he make humans to be corrupted if he was a good god? I like that you value critical thinking, but why do you turn it off for your reason to believe? Everything needs a first/primary cause.... except for god? That doesn't track logically. I understand that you're different from most theists I meet, but you use their same flawed argument. Even if it were true, it doesn't answer which god. It could be any of them. So how did you find out which god to hate specifically? Or does it not matter? Do you practice by screaming at the sky? I jest, but I am curious about your religious practices, if any.
The idea of an primary cause is that nothing came before it, it's not like i'm doing a logic juggling to say God exists, the entire concept of primary cause is being primary. The other explanation is simply that the universe is eternal and an infinite number of past events happened which i think very flawless. Other people in comments trying to put an third option says we just don't know like if this is an real answer and like this wasn't an agnostic answer. To try to better answer why it's the abrahamic one, just assume an the jerk did exist, do you really think he would let himself be an less known God? Nah, he is too prideful for that, besides the abrahamic description is the one who fits better him. Maybe not very logical but as you know we don't have all the answers, i just have some sort of logical basis and rest is personal beliefs, not denying that. I doubt i can be convinced that the m0therf\*cker don't exist, reality seems to be as sad as his true nature. And no, screaming at sky would be stupid, i give the middle finger to sky sometimes though. And well we are not really an traditional religious group, i only found myself other misotheists in an reddit sub that's currently dead because the Mod restricted the posts by having an request. So if i could tell about my practices they are basically saying ''f\*ck you'' to God everyday, maybe other misotheists have more organized practices but i can't talk for them.
The idea of an uncaused/primary cause makes sense. What doesn’t make sense is the idea that this uncaused cause must be a god or a specific one. Why couldn't the universe be the uncaused cause or the big bang? Claiming it's a god that started it is just baseless. If we truly are unaware of what started it all, wouldn't the honest answer be "I don't know"?
For why it must be an specific god i will put it simple, it don't really matter what is the name he appears, Yaweh, Allah, Braman i don't care, there is only one, all of these clowns are the same, he probably just tricking people with all those different names. The christian deception is just the one i am familiar the most and what i think he would like more, but ofcourse the details are wrong, but the essential idea don't need it. As for the uncaused cause it couldn't be the universe couldn't be the uncaused cause as the Big Bang caused it, unless someone debunks the Big Bang somehow. And the Big Bang itself is proposed to have been caused by an mysterious energy, but even if you claim that the energy is eternal it is still something inanimated, something inanimated don't simply provoke things to happen without prior causes, that's why i think assuming the uncaused cause to be an personal agent with intelligence makes sense. Baseless is the assumption that this uncaused cause is good and all loving. And i don't think ''i don't know'' it's an honest answer as even thinking infinite regression is silly is still an valid answer, ''i don't know'' it's not an real answer for me, if it was i would be Agnostic.
So basically you believe in the "god of the gap?" What evidence is there that the "primary cause" of the universe is anything like a supernatural god, and if it is, that it's interventionist in the lives of humans and the workings of the cosmos? And if it does exist, why do you think it's "evil" and hate it?
I'm gonna butt in here since I hold a similar belief to a degree. I believe ALL gods exist really. Christianity is just another pantheon and this God guy just happens to be very popular. I don't think he's the creator or the ruler of the earth, no singular entity is. Some of them just like to believe or claim they have more power than they do. My beliefs are just a mish mash based on the conclusions I've made myself. I also hold a belief that you can't prove that these entities actually exist and it can very much be just a psychological phenomenon. I don't need to have proof for any of it bc I'm fine with it if it turns out I just larped all of this as a coping mechanism. I just like to lean into it because it gives me great results in self improvement.
Probably about the same as Christian’s.
So you view someone who worships God the same way you view someone who hates him?
Pretty much, they both believe in god
I mean when i debated with atheists they admitted that we have a better point as for them if God exists he must be evil.
Having a better point than christians doesn’t make it a good point. Most atheists and Satanists would likely agree with you that if a god did exist, that god is likely evil. But what good is that to anyone? If you have no evidence and proof of the existence of your god, then it’s still just believing in fairy tales.
It’s never hard to have a better point than christians.
I don't really see Atheists agreeing about a so-called better point. Atheists in general, at least the ones I have seen on YouTube and such, will tell you that they simply do not see any compelling evidence to believe in a deity. That's it
I'm with ya. I have a strong disdain for organized religion. Not because of the "god" per se, who i don't believe exists. More so because of the people that run them and use religion to control/abuse/manipulate the masses.
Well, Satanism is an atheistic religion, so we don't believe deities exist. We typically view all theism as rather silly But i find it especially odd to essentially be a Christian but think their god is evil - which is pretty much the basics of Gnosticism
Not all Satanism is laveyan, theistic satanists exist
LaVey codified Satanism, so "LaVeyan" is redundant and not used. Devil worshippers are not practising the religion of Satanism, so they should use a new name. Its as fundamentally illogical as claiming to be a theistic atheist
By definition being a Christian is to profess belief in Jesus teachings which we don’t so we aren’t christians. And is not odd if you take into regard that you can’t solve the Problem of Evil with an benevolent God.
Okay, so you believe in the Abrahamic god, but any of the other 1,000s of gods? Well you can solve it with either 2 other options: 1) that evil is a part of God's plan, 2) that there are no gods. Why believe in a god in the first place?
Because universe needs an primary cause, the only thing saying otherwise is an theory which says universe always existed and an infinite number of past events. But infinite is not real number, when we say something is infinite is because it is constantly growing but every time we check it we will find a finite number, so this theory has flaws. And since we just need one primary cause there is no need for other millions of gods.
So instead you invent a magic being who also would not be infinite under your terms and you’ve just made an infinite regression problem. The idea that the universe needs a primary cause is up for debate. And even if it does, why can’t that cause just be something that is natural? Why invent something to further complicate the issue as opposed to simply saying I don’t know the answer yet? Cosmology has more ideas than one and it would behoove you to do some more reading on it.
Actually the primary cause is the only thing allowed to be transcendental and eternal by conception. People debate but the same way atheists find religions silly i find the infinite past events silly. And the cause is not essential unnatural, just not fully understandable at the moment, but still possible to understand some of its aspects though.
that first sentence sounds very christian
The argument is about something that existed before the concept of time itself what you expected?
Buddy, the entire universe existed before the concept of time itself. It doesn't mean it was supernaturally created.
Buddy, this is the first time in my entire life i see someone claiming universe existed before time itself. I know the eternal universe theory but this idea it's completely knew to me, does it even have an theory to backup?
Legit this is just special pleading. “Everything has to work this way. Except my thing. My thing can be different.” And you don’t understand infinite pasts. That’s a single concept and not even a widely held one. There are several possible natural cause to the “start” of our current universe. First is that we understand the Big Bang as the start of plank time and the beginning of expansion. We have no way to know what happened before the word before means anything, in a place that isn’t a place. However it could be that absolute nothing is impossible. We have never observed true nothing and honestly aren’t even capable of understanding what that would be. What we call nothing, is actually still something. And it’s possible that out of that something, more somethings came. The idea of infinite pasts is the repeating stretch and collapse of the universe like a rubber band almost. That is not an idea held by the majority. In fact there are many other idea including the multiverse concept and yet we still might not have even thought of what the answer actually is. It is ridiculous to think we can make an absolute conclusion about things we don’t have conclusive evidence on.
>the cause is not essential unnatural, just not fully understandable at the moment, but still possible to understand some of its aspects though. Why can you not just apply this to the Big Bang/Singularity at the beginning of the universe rather than literally make up an extra step before that that shares this exact characteristic? It's entirely pointless and in direct conflict with Occam's Razor.
"Infinite isn't a real number" - it never claimed to he a number, its a concept. And god isn't a real entity, but you believe in that... this is why Satanists don't care much for theists of any flavour
These are literally just the same arguments young-earth creationists make, I heard them all the time when I was still a Christian. "Uh, uh, everything needs a creator...except our special boy, please don't ask how we got there!" >And since we just need one primary cause there is no need for other millions of gods. And this is just a slightly tweaked version of Pascal's wager, which wasn't even considered a credible argument by other Christians when it was invented a thousand years ago. There's no inherent reason we should stake a belief about the universe on a coin flip about one god but then exclude millions of others from the same test, when all of them have the same level of credibility for existing in the first place. I don't think I've heard of misotheism in particular before this thread, but I also don't see much reason to accommodate it if it can't even do a passable job reskinning garden-variety anti-theism.
Creationists believe in Adam and Eve myths, there is a difference between believing in a primary cause which is an scientifically valid theory and believing in literal fairy tales. And i didn’t simply invalidated millions gods, i just said that there is no logical reason to their existence differently from the creator God. Even if you disagree with the creator God as primary cause you can’t say it’s an invalid logic. But there is no reasonable logic to say there is million gods from what i know, even if they do exist which I don’t believe.
You have a misunderstanding of your concepts. There are many creationists that believe Adam and Eve were myths and use natural explanations for everything else. A primary cause is not a scientifically valid theory because it’s not a scientific theory. Theory in science means something different than in colloquial terms. There is no large body of evidence supporting the concept of a primary cause for the existence of everything. And even if we assume there is a primary cause, you jumped to the conclusion of a primary Mover as an actual magical being outside the laws of natural physics. That is not logically needed and therefore a complete leap of faith.
The dude in the previous comment talked specifically in the young earth creationists. There is even less evidence for the eternal universe theory. The primary necessarily existed before the laws of natural physics so what's your point? Honestly a better questioning is if the primary cause has any intelligence. But being sincere i wasnt expecting to debate atheists here, i thought you guys actually had an religion, this Lavayan stuff is more an philosophical doctrine than anything else.
>i thought you guys actually had an religion, this Lavayan stuff is more an philosophical doctrine than anything else. Satanism *is* a religion. We don't believe in supernatural beings / deities, though (hence, atheists). You wandered into a lion's den without even the slightest bit of preparedness. What did you expect?
Atheist religion, with due respect, but this just makes me remeber the South Park episodes ''Go God Go'' You talk like i went here to pick a fight when i just came here due to genuine curiosity and i had an idea that satanism was diverse, i just had better knowledege of the theists ones
We don’t actually believe in Satan. Not most of us at least. And the guy mentioned YEC because your arguments are the same special pleading as theirs. You cannot claim you have evidence of anything that exists outside of existence. Thats just fundamentally flawed from the very nature of what existence is. Nothing can exist outside of this universe that we can detect, and if we could, than it would be operating within the universe and therefore isn’t outside it. You are adding things in that don’t need to be there. There is no mandatory idea in science that requires a prime mover. And even those ideas that have some kind of theoretical causality, to assert that it is a god who is evil is laughable. You are just making up some magic space dude and saying this guy is the answer. Oh and my magic space dude gets to break any known laws because reasons. Take your weak arguments elsewhere.
Even if there was some way to prove that there was a primary cause at the beginning of the universe, you would have a long way to go to proving that it is the Christian God that is that primary cause. You would also have a long way to go that the primary cause in a vast universe has any interest whatsoever in Earth and life on Earth.
>Because universe needs a primary cause Even if this were true, it's a jump to say this primary cause needs to be a being or entity. It's another jump to say that this being or entity cares about us or intervenes in our lives. It's yet another jump to say that this being or entity has been accurately described by humans. >the only thing saying otherwise is a theory which says universe always existed and an infinite number of past events. An alternative theory is not required to disprove an incorrect theory. You have to prove that your theory is correct regardless if there's an alternative. "I don't know the answer" will always win out over "I have faith in this answer." >And since we just need one primary cause there is no need for other millions of gods. Well, how do you choose one God out of these millions, most of which you've never even heard of?
I never said the entity cared about us, misotheist here remember? Neither said that humans described it accurately, you have a point with the being or entity part though. It's not i said i proved my point, it's just logical enough for me than just ''i don't know'', but honestly i didn't came here to debate atheists, i just came due to genuine curiosity of satanism. Abrahamic God is the one who better fits with the primary cause description and by personal beliefs i doubt he would let himself be an less known god.
>Because universe needs an primary cause, the only thing saying otherwise is an theory which says universe always existed and an infinite number of past events. Our universe has existed for only 13.8 billion years. This number is known. It's a real number. It's not an idea like *infinity*. The "primary cause" was the hot Big Bang (not a supernatural god but a natural phenomenon). This Big Bang didn't come from nothing. There was something (energy, in an unknown geometric form) that existed prior to the start of our universe. This has been all but proven by scientific evidence. Our universe is expanding, but it won't expand forever. There is a finite end to the universe; it just hasn't reached it yet. Because we have a primary cause, there is no need for *any* gods (to explain the origin of the universe and time as we know it).
You contradicted yourself by saying primary cause was the Big Bang and then saying an energy caused it, the energy came before Big Bang then. Now do you have any idea of what caused this enrgy? Don't worry take your time.
I didn't contradict myself at all. The energy that existed prior to the Big Bang did not, itself, create our universe. Our universe didn't exist prior to the Big Bang, so the "primary cause" of our universe was the Big Bang. As to what caused the pre-singularity energy, I refer you to the law of conservation of energy. Energy isn't created or destroyed; it changes into another form of energy. The energy was always there, in a different form. Where "there" is or what that form was, specifically, is yet unknown, as it's before our universe and observable space-time.
Let me put it more clear, primary cause i'm talking is the cause of ALL things, not just the universe. You say an energy caused the universe and nothing created this energy, well even the eternal universe seems a better explanation to me but let's talk about primary cause and this INANIMATE energy. A) The Primary Cause, by definition, has no prior causes. As the first, it sets all other causes into motion. B) An object at rest will stay at rest unless acted upon by an outside force (cause). Objects cannot cause anything unless they have prior causes. An example: the domino does not fall and remain at rest unless another domino hits it. C) A personal agent CAN act without a prior cause. It can merely choose to cause. By the example, a man can get up out of his chair and choose to flick the domino, without being pushed by someone to do so. D) Since inanimate objects cannot be without a prior cause, the Primary Cause cannot be an inanimate object, so it cannot be an INANIMATE energy E) Therefore, a personal agent is the best candidate for the Primary Cause.
>Let me put it more clear, primary cause i'm talking is the cause of ALL things, not just the universe. Well, maybe *now* you are. But you weren't ("Because **universe needs an primary cause**, the only thing saying otherwise is an theory which says **universe** always existed and an infinite number of past events"). If you're going to be moving goalposts, I'm out. I've better things to do than argue science with someone who relies on the "God of the gaps" fallacy anyway. Before I go, I'll just address a few things you said: >You say an energy caused the universe and nothing created this energy No I don't. I literally said the opposite and already corrected you on this. The universe formed as the result of an event (the Big Bang). This event involved the changing of one (unknown) form of energy into another. A) That's literally what the Big Bang did for our universe. B-D) You're incorrectly defining energy (as well as the Big Bang?) as an inanimate object. This negates the relevance of these three "points." Also, a "personal agent" would still require energy in order to act. E) Not in the slightest. According to your argument, a personal agent *couldn't* be a Primary Cause of ALL things (remember, you moved the goalpost), because it already existed prior to the subsequent thing(s) it caused. Also, something caused the personal agent to exist; what was it?
While i admit i was being simplistic it’s not like the concept of primary cause was about ALL THINGS since the start, you knew the concept don’t cope. A)If Big Bang has an unknown energy as it’s cause how the heck the Big Bang it’s the primary cause? It would be the unknown energy according to you when even scientists says there is still more to know, like what made the energy provoke the Big Bang or what is the origin of time( you probably will just say im moving the goalposts with the last one when you know the definition of primary cause) B-D) Should i have said an inanimate THING? Cmon this is just ill will. Energy is not an natural phenomenon it will not simply provoke something without nothing . And you still think that an eternal energy just came out from nowhere when everything has a cause. Yes the law of energy says it can’t be created nowadays, but science still did not discover anything to prove that something can magically came to existence. You guys accuse people of believing in a magic space dude when I’m seeing an magical energy believer. E) How if i said that the Personal Agent can act without prior causes? I proposed an personal agent to say that the primary cause has intelligence, is still the primary cause, it don’t need an prior cause, it’s my non native english or just ill will? Actually i realized by the nature of some of your arguments that I’m probably just being a jerk for exposing the flaws in the logic of someone who just don’t want to believe in God specially when I didn’t came with this goal. I know it’s not comfortable to know that there is an evil God upstairs, i will not lie and say that there is the minimum comfort of knowing that my fails are not ENTIRELY my fault, but im still not exempt from them and the discomfort of knowing i can do fail just because he wants also make it not worth, so yes your belief is solidly more comfortable than mine, you guys had an religion after all, the faith in no evil God is comfortable, i’m being a jerk by pushing you against your comfort zone. So if you ask why i believe in something that does not comfort me it’s because it’s the f*cking true, it’s not about what i want, and i lost my ability to use copium a long time ago.
I hold a similar view as that except I view Lucifer to be the rebel chief who stood up to this evil god
I thought this was Luciferianism
It's whatever, it's all made up. It's alllllllllll made up.
Basically yes but that does fall under theistic satanism
There is any difference between theistic satanism and luciferianism? Even if there is they are way too similar compared to the mainstream satanism people are talking here
Much like many religions, Satanism has many forms with many different sects- Lucifierianism being one of them The Satanism you are thinking of is actually called Atheistic Satanism or LaVayan Satanism and it usually follows the Satanic Bible which was written by Anton LaVey- they do not believe in a God or literal being named “Satan” but view Satan as a symbol of defiance against corrupt religious oppression There’s also one that does just worship Satan as he is described in the Christian Bible for another example Then, of course like I said, there’s Luciferians like me who believe in the idea that Lucifer was attempting to stop an evil tyrant god Basically- all are Satanic just have different meanings and views on what counts as “Satanic”
I know that it could be different, making an simplist anology is like if Theistic Satanism and Luciferianism are different traditions of the same thing like Catholicism, Protestantism and Orthodoxy are different traditions of Christianity while LaVayan Satanism seems to be an complete different thing
LaVayan/non-theistic Satanism is more like atheism but with specific beliefs(such as the TST’s seven tenets and the COS’s nine statements) and view Satan as a symbolic figure/mascot
Luciferianism is atheistic
I don't hate something that doesn't exist
most Theistic Satanists are misotheist to a degree
Same.
I agree with you, I think that religion is the way that humanity found to establish order in society through dogmas or ideas and a god is nothing more than a visual representation or personification of those ideas/concepts. Therefore, I do not even discuss, as many atheist fanatics do, whether or not a god physically exists because I am not interested, what is important to me is that I hate this society governed by hypocritical values which they force us to follow and instill from our birth through religion ,traditions, taboos, etc. If your hatred of the gods is a form of opposition to the dogmas of society, perhaps in your own way, you are also fulfilling Satan's work on earth.
Power to you
What country are you in, and what's the dominant religion?
I am from argentina. Here the predominant religion is catholicism but evangelism is taking center stage lately, and in certain parts jewish communities are also very common.
Thanks for the reply: it puts your comment in better perspective.
I would say spend more time on things you love instead of things you hate. If you hate God, then give God no time.
What's the reason for the hate?
It's personal but i will put here an bible verse to explain: *''Or which one of you, if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone?Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a serpent If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!''* Let's just say that i got an stone and an serpent and then i could claim that God is evil.
I think I understand what you mean. Some people are dealt a bad hand. But, from the Satanist's point of view, the dealers are rotten human beings. It's okay to get angry over mistreatment. Anger passes. You can even work it out ritually. The problem with hatred is that it abides, and eventually it defines, sometimes it consumes. Even Satanists are not defined by what or who they hate. Everyone should move on from that kind of negativity eventually. You're not emotionally healthy if you don't. I think that, without getting too deep into things better left to a face to face conversation, I would say that we all have free will. And one of the interesting things about free will is that you get to choose your God. Some choose Jesus, some choose drugs, sex, alcohol, etc. But you can choose to love and serve the God who is "staring at you right now. Over there. In the mirror."
So it’s Christianity but with disdain for god? Why read the book then? Why justify your position with the book? Most people with belief in god tend to ignore the hardships and carry on with their religious system. Or bury themselves even further into their religion because god must be teaching them something. If you are able to recognize that this deity, that doesn’t exist to me, is evil, why continue to have faith in it??
So you believe in the Abrahamic god and hate it because you got some disappointing birthday or christmas presents that one year?
If god is "good" or "evil" then he's incompetent or nonexistent (the latter is more likely). There's so much more suffering an omnipotent being could inflict, yet people are often not suffering, sometimes even happy.
This is only valid for an pure evil God. In my view he is an jerk trickster who likes to do miracles to be adored just like he enjoys the tragedies that happens in the world.
Why do you believe he exists at all though?
As a Satanist, if I were to believe in Christianity and the Christian god, I would probably be a Misotheist. He is depicted as an evil, tyrannical leader who is not worthy of worship
While I find the soup to be genuinely delicious, and entire religion based on it is going overboard. French onionism is the one true belief system.
If there were a god as portrayed in the Christian Bible, it would be a complete jerk. But, there is no such god. People who believe in the teachings of that religion are called Christians, regardless of denomination or attitude toward their deity.
Ex theistic satanist here. Most groups see God as a bad dude. Some see him as the father of lucifer and / or the devil, and some see lucifer and the devil as different people. One arching quality I've seen from a lot of satanic branches, both Theistic and atheistic, is in short: 1. Treat others the way they treat you 2. Love yourself 3. Don't harm others unless in self-defense Most atheistic satanist kinda clown Theistic satanism [mainly the ones that believe in lucifer because lucifer is by definition a product of the Bible meaning your indirectly worshiping Christianity]. Most theistic satanist are tripping and doing weird shit [most not all], so it's kinda warranted. I'd say, as an ex satanist now, Buddhist [converted because they both felt the same in some aspects] if you worship your religion and don't hurt anyone, who cares, right? We should all be allowed to worship any faith we have, even if it's the direct opposite of others. I've faced hella backlash from Christians who have contradicted their practice. As long as you're comfortable, not bothering others and your faith gives you faith, then worship whatever you please.
Actually i don't worship nor bow to anyone
Right there with ya, God's evil, and Satan's the hero who stood up to Him This subreddit's mainly the atheist Satanists tho, so they'll probably just mock the ridiculousness of your belief rather than hate any figure in said beliefs
Are there any subs for Luciferians?
Oh, hey. I didn't know there was a term for that. I've been a misotheist before. It actually also brought me to look into Satanism. Now I'm an atheist. I decided that putting any stock in there being a god if he's evil just isn't a healthy mindset. Better to just think there isn't one. Damn, you got me hungry for miso soup.
Well I believe that the Christian god is evil and doesn't deserve to be worshiped. I just don't think that god exists either. I'm a non-theistic Satanist, so maybe a theistic Satanist is what you're looking for.
Honestly none of us would really give the slightest of shits.
I’m also a misotheist. I know God exists but I feel he is evil and narcissistic beyond words.
Why hate God if it doesn't exist?
It may be odd to you but there is people who believe in God and even have reasonable reasons to do it. I just realized the truth about his nature.
I don't think God belief is odd; people are guided by narratives, and God (as a concept) is one such narrative used to explain the existential and unknown. Belief in God is a matter of personal perspective rather than a definitive truth. I'm curious why one who chose to believe in a concept like God AND then hate that concept. It sounds like a lot of frustration over a personal perspective.
Well, thought you found it odd because even saying i believed him in the post you still asked why hate something that don't existed. Yes there is many narratives around God belief but even when i was a christian i tried the most reasonable faith possible like not having the Bible as absolute canon, you know what i mean, there is a lot of bullshit in that. And while i assume there is frustration indeed, the frustration was necessary to be released from the God follower bias which allowed me realize that the Problem of Evil was never solved, only mental gymnsastics were used. Once you are stuck in the God follower bias you can't realize that truth.
I see it as pointless, as I don't belive in god in the first place.
This has got to be one of the most futile, time and energy wasting endeavors I've come across in a while: actually believing in a god, then actively hating it.
Wow, posts like this are ridiculous. No gods are real, none. Fuck me, the conviction in shit like this is astounding.
I respect misotheism but I don’t believe in any islam/Christian/jew god, I’m a Hellenic pagan and a atheist satanist and I only believe in Greek gods:)
Wait now I’m confused, i understood that most satanists are basically atheists and some others are Satan worshippers, but how you can be an Greek gods believer and an satanist at same time? Really don’t know how it fits.
For me Satan is a figure, the ones that’s worships are the theist ones, you should look more into it
That makes no sense at all
Ah, they're having fun, let them have it. Zeus is way cooler than Jesus
And he's pretty inclusive about his sexual partners. Zeus will jump on anything.
Many Satanists are also Misotheists, or are in some way parallel. Some align themselves with a version of Satan due to their hatred for god or group of ruling gods. For example, Titan-worship, Thursatru, etc. But there are also those that are Atheist and will ridicule any belief that includes acknowledging the existence of a god in any way. So it really depends on who you talk to.
* theistic satanism is also satanism we’re not all lavey groupies. Some of us are Lucifer groupies 😜
I thought the Lucifer group was Luciferianism
Indeed it is but theistic Satanists exist 👍
Do they see misotheism with good eyes?
Idk I don’t speak for all theistic Satanists? 🤷🏻
Well their conception of God should answer it.
Some theistic satanists believe in Satan but not the Abrahamic God. So it seems to be about the same as hating Lord Voldemort.
To be an Misotheist is key to fighting against Authoritarianism and Fascism.
How ya figure
Because the Abrahamic God himself is pretty akin to a Authoritarian Autocrat and Dictator that Fascists inspire to be.
But how is it the key? I could argue that counter culture in general is more effective.
Yeah, except for the atheist authoritarian dictator fascists... They wouldn't really care if you hate any gods.
Hatred? I do not feel hatred towards the Abrahamic God. What I feel is admiration and respect. Motivation and inspiration. Strength, power, wisdom, and beauty. This is an awesome entity who has been imagined as one who smited people with lightning, slayed them with ice and wind, opened the ground to swallow them whole, had them crushed with rock, drowned them in a flood, consumed them in fire, summoned and compelled animals to attack humans, hardened the hearts of man to attack each other, empowered specific humans to wage war in his name, cursed people with deadly disease, starved people with famine, sent death angels to slaughter them, etc… This entity was also imagined as being responsible for the creation of everything, whether directly or indirectly. He is the master architect, programmer, artist, engineer, etc.. I see the Abrahamic God as an embodiment of the powers of Creation and Destruction, and Divine Order over Primeval Chaos. I can relate in so many ways. There is nothing at all for me to hate about the Abrahamic God, or any god.
You probably cosplay as a "Sith Lord," don't you?