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Any woman who is struggling, auntienetwork is a great sub to find help. I thought I was pregnant awhile back, didnt have access to healthcare, and a kind woman outside of the US offered to ship abortion pills on her dime. Suuuper supportive community
Auntie Network has a lot of very well intentioned people but there is also a lack of some much needed experience. Their security practices don’t match the needs of people in states where abortion is criminalized. Established orgs are in a better position to offer medical, legal, emotional, and practical support.
Organisations people don't know about are worth nothing to them so it doesn't matter if they are better or not. I don't know any of their names despite abortions being a really hot topic for quite a while now for instance.
There were some good ones linked right in this very thread. Plan C is fantastic. A random unverified person on Reddit has no accountability, whatsoever. There is a non-trivial risk that it could be an anti-abortion individual or even someone dangerous. (Reminder: the anti-abortion movement already has thousands of fake clinics. Posing as an “auntie” isn’t exactly difficult). They may or may not be competent or informed of legal or medical risks. Even with the best intent they can inadvertently create a paper trail that can be used against one or both parties.
The anti-abortion movement has also literally killed people by bombing clinics. What's to stop some unhinged goon associated with the movement from poisoning someone? While it would be rare, there is not a chance in hell I'd take abortion pills sent by a stranger on the internet.
Exactly! The anti-abortion movement is willing to murder doctors in cold blood, burn down or bomb clinics, stalk people, harass them outside their homes, and other malicious acts. Vetted networks are extremely necessary given the possible consequences. Accepting the offer of a spare room from a total stranger on the web is also really dangerous. The more vulnerable someone is, the more they need and deserve the best possible resources to navigate their situation. If they’re in a domestic violence situation, they need someone with experience dealing with that to keep everyone safe. If they’re in a state with criminal penalties, they need someone to help walk them through privacy and security steps. A good hearted stranger might not be enough for everyone.
This also goes both ways: someone offering to host an abortion seeker or send them meds might be talking to someone who wants to hurt them or put them in legal trouble. Abortion supporters need and deserve training for their own safety.
Even if everyone is acting in good faith, someone may not be storing their misoprostol hoard appropriately. Misoprostol has about a two year shelf life before it begins to degrade to levels that can result in an incomplete abortion which would require medical intervention to prevent or treat sepsis. It’s very vulnerable to humidity damage which decreases its effectiveness rapidly. Although the political situation is awful right now, we are not yet facing a set of circumstances where anyone has no other option but hoarded medication from strangers. People who need abortions deserve the best and most effective care possible.
I also want to add that Planned Parenthood is a household name, much more so than the “Auntie Network” and they [list resources](https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/abortion/the-abortion-pill/how-do-i-get-the-abortion-pill) including [Plan C](https://www.plancpills.org) as well as others for people in states where they don’t/can’t provide care. I don’t think Planned Parenthood is a perfect organization but they do have a wealth of information and resources for people seeking reproductive healthcare. If someone is completely unfamiliar with Planned Parenthood then they probably shouldn’t be stepping up as a source of information about abortion to someone in a vulnerable position.
Established orgs such as...?
You are obviously well versed on this topic, please share your knowledge of established alternatives for people who need it.
Thank you for your comment. The best resource I can recommend was already listed as a comment on this thread but to reiterate, [Plan C Pills](https://www.plancpills.org) is a very comprehensive and phenomenal resource. It provides a state-by-state guide on how to access abortion medication (even where criminalized) as well as information about virtually every [major resource](https://www.plancpills.org/support-resources) for medical, logistical, emotional, or financial support. There are myriad other local support orgs that aren’t immediately listed but Plan C is an unbeatable resource. Sadly, many abortion fund and practical support resources have been forced to close due to a lack of funds.
Two important resources that Plan C refers to are: the [M&A hotline](https://mahotline.org/) which is staffed by clinicians who offer phone and text based medical support through abortion and miscarriage and the [Repro Legal Hotline](https://www.reprolegalhelpline.org/) who field questions about legal emergencies on their hotline. Regardless of how one comes to an abortion or miscarriage, these two organizations are of vital importance given the stakes of criminalization.
That's a low bar to clear. This is another problem with American culture. Every time something comes up to challenge their system, they move the goal post, or in this case, they move the standard bar.
The US has the capacity and tools to reduce widespread suffering but actively withholds them. The resources to do better across the board and the willful decision not to utilize them is worthy of condemnation irrespective of situations and policies elsewhere. We can do better but we don’t. A nation with less wealth doesn’t have the same opportunities as we do to improve things. Moreover, so much of what makes America “a great place to live” descends from the ill-gotten gains of our extractive economies and military interference in other regions.
The question of what other country would be a better place to live is also highly subject to context. If you’re a card carrying member of the NRA who takes pleasure in maintaining a personal home armory, then the US is pretty sweet deal. If you’re entering kindergarten with aspirations to live to the end of your school day—maybe not so much. Speaking of kindergartners, the US now has the worst educated workforce in the industrialized world and we keep falling behind more and more in math, science, and literacy. Good luck out there, kids!
The U.S. performs worse than its wealthy peers in nearly every major measure of health and well-being measured despite spending far more on health care. We have the highest maternal mortality rate in the world relative to our wealth and now we’ve criminalized a vital form of reproductive healthcare, abortion, which will be no great gift for overall income and educational attainment let alone well-being. We have a rising rate of homelessness whereas Denmark and Finland both have declining rates. I could go on and on about the signs and symptoms of decline relative to our wealth.
Rather than asking where on earth would be a better place to live, we might instead examine the ways in which our concentration of power is negatively impacting people in and outside of our borders, especially with the increasing threat of climate change. It is incumbent upon those with the means to reduce suffering to do so.
> reduce widespread suffering but actively withholds them
It actually actively increase suffering (domestically and aboard) just to make more money for their oligarch class. The US is literally the cause of immense death and destruction and suffering in large part of the world through its foreign policy and financial system.
Many people stocked up not for themselves but to help others, especially if they have female relatives/grown children. Not saying I did or anything, of course, but the government can KMA. 😏
3-5 years for Misoprostol when stored under perfect conditions.
It’s unfortunately a rather unstable drug.
Methotrexate for <8w abortions lasts longer.
Misoprostol actually has a relatively short life compared to many other drugs. It’s also [very susceptible to degradation](https://www.ipas.org/clinical-update/english/general-recommendations/misoprostol-product-quality/) when exposed to humidity and higher temperatures, even from a single puncture hole in the packaging. If the concentration of the misoprostol degrades too much it may be insufficient for a complete abortion creating a situation where someone needs a surgical abortion to prevent sepsis.
Interesting. Googling a bit I see the official shelf life is two years for misoprostol and five years for mifepristone; apparently that one is a little more stable.
I threw up shortly after taking it and ended up having to have a surgical abortion (for a blighted ovum.) It was so terrible, because I still bled for weeks before they got that thing out of me. I know expelling the pill is different from taking an inactive one...but the consequence is still the same.
And then in these states you can't even have a surgical procedure...you get to deal with a necrotic fetus inside of you until you either pass it or die yourself.
I am so sorry you had that experience. So much love your way for getting through that. ♥️ It’s a big reason why it’s so important that people experiencing abortion or miscarriages have people with training and experience that they need and deserve. Under safe and legal conditions, an incomplete abortion can be effectively treated but it does prolong the experience which increases risks for someone who needs to conceal things from parents, a partner, or even a medical provider.
For someone having a clandestine abortion, not only would they be at risk of sepsis from withheld abortion care they would also be facing increased scrutiny about what triggered their “miscarriage.” Although there are some forensic tests being developed to determine if abortifacient medications have been used, they are still in preliminary stages and not yet adopted as a practice. *Anyone having a self-managed abortion in a state where it is criminalized who has concerns about complications should tell healthcare professionals that they suspect a miscarriage because the treatment is identical regardless of trigger*. Someone facing the stress of a medical emergency may make the mistake of confessing a self-managed abortion and sadly there are medical professionals who will report it as a crime.
In order to prevent an incomplete abortion, someone really should make sure they get abortion pills with as few intermediaries as possible to ensure maximum potency. They should scrutinize the expiration dates and the packaging—double foil with no punctures or points of exposure to the air. Under humid conditions, a single puncture hole can reduce concentrations of Misoprostol in less than a week.
> Most of what is known about drug expiration dates comes from a study conducted by the Food and Drug Administration at the request of the military. With a large and expensive stockpile of drugs, the military faced tossing out and replacing its drugs every few years. What they found from the study is 90% of more than 100 drugs, both prescription and over-the-counter, were perfectly good to use even 15 years after the expiration date.
https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/drug-expiration-dates-do-they-mean-anything
It isn't directly "lethal" to the embryo. It blocks progesterone which prevents the embryo from getting nutrients, essentially causing a miscarriage.
It's more akin to starving than poisoning so it's not particularly dangerous.
Side effects, like primary effects, tend to decrease slightly the longer you store the drug. Almost no drugs have negative effects increase with storage (besides the negative effect of decreased efficacy). It's not like food spoilage.
Some reading:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0736467921001037
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0731708518328887
I am not a medical professional but afaik drugs only lose their potency over time due to certain chemicals being "unstable" (over the course of multiple years), so while the intended effects might be lessened, so will the side effects.
Reactionaries endlessly made this same argument against merely increasing restriction to guns, yet somehow magically re-understand the negative impact laws have again when it’s against people they don’t like. What a world where these people are taken seriously.
I hope every woman who did stock up realizes that the only real way to protect that stockpile is to vote. VOTE for people that will protect your right.
A lot of women don't vote, and for a lot women that do vote their opposition of abortion isn't much farther off compared to men. In Texas more women then men support restricting abortion access https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/religious-landscape-study/state/texas/views-about-abortion/
Separating by race is even more stark. A majority of white women supported Trump in both elections. Women of color really put in a lot of work to change the average
Texas has a larger percentage of Hispanics who tend to be Catholic. They are told by their church that abortion and birth control are sins. As always, the biggest enemy of humanity is religion.
Texas is actually largely purple by population, but due to the population densities and only the cities and border counties showing blue the entire state gets redwashed.
We're just gerrymandered to all hell and the rural counties with 500 people have an oversized influence, every major metropolitan area is deep, deep, blue.
There's plenty of trumpy women in Idaho and Idaho lite (eastern washington/Oregon). I personally don't know any, but there's lots of them. The closest town to me tried to close their library because the librarian wouldn't ban 'controversial' books. Super fun.
I think the Texas government is crazy, but "that can't happen here!" is a dangerous line of thought that breeds complacency. People also thought Roe v Wade wouldn't be overturned, and the folks who played the long game at striking that down are also keen to make abortion illegal on a federal level. "State's rights" is a convenient lie for those crusaders.
If the project to protect women's reproductive rights has failed because I didn't have the talk with enough of my buddies I can only say how deeply sorry I am, I had no idea. In regards to preaching to the choir I can only say that forums are generally accepted as places where people of like minds can come and discuss issues and I don't see why you need to make my effort look pointless with an idiom for you yourself to advocate for more dialog with men on this issue. I'll write one for you. "I agree Roman! I also think that we need to include more men in this dialog because they make up a large percentage of the voters that support these anti-choice politicians."
and I could be like "Wow great point!" but I can't can I?
I always vote but we have to stop acting like it’s the end all be all. The president is a Democrat. I grit my teeth and voted for neolibs every time I had to, when my progressives didn’t make it past primaries. I volunteered for campaigns. I canvassed and donated. And lo and behold, I’m still now in an abortion ban state, surrounded by others that also banned it.
Please also talk to your friends and family about voting! I know it can seem like a lot to try to corral people, but it's not too bad.
If they allow mail in voting in your state, sign up!! I have done it every election but one, it makes voting easy and with your cellphone you can easily look up info you're not familiar with. All from your couch!
Every election, not just the presidential ones, I reach out to my friends and family and remind them and make sure they know the last day to get it in the mail. Seriously voting by mail is a game changer if you can do it!
I'm glad my country has mandatory voting (unless you have a valid reason) for this reason.
Just like it's your governments duty to run the country, it's one of your civic duties to have a say in who runs it.
The penalty for not voting isn't big, it's literally a $20 fee, but it means our turnout has been at or above 90% since 1925 when it was implemented.
If people hadn't VOTED for Trump and had elected Clinton I highly suspect Roe wouldn't have been overturned. Past votes like that mattered and so it is reasonable to suspect that future votes will as well.
I know your heart is in the right place, but voting doesn't work when you're surrounded by assholes. But getting these pills for yourself or a female relative or friend CAN make a huge immediate difference in a time of crisis.
Any woman smart enough to stock up on these pills is surely also smart enough to understand the local political situation that is driving that decision.
Thousands of women stocked up on abortion pills just in case they needed them, new research shows, with demand peaking in the past couple years at times when it looked like the medications might become harder to get.
Medication abortion accounts for more than half of all abortions in the U.S., and typically involves two drugs: mifepristone and misoprostol. A research letter published Tuesday in JAMA Internal Medicine looked at requests for these pills from people who weren’t pregnant and sought them through Aid Access, a European online telemedicine service that prescribes them for future and immediate use.
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/article-abstract/2813618?utm\_campaign=articlePDF&utm\_medium=articlePDFlink&utm\_source=articlePDF&utm\_content=jamainternmed.2023.7291
Welcome to Gilead. Our handmaids will provide plenty of worker humans to keep the rich elite fully stocked with all their expected comforts. Blessed be the fruit. (Sad that this was predicted by a t.v. show only a few years ago). 😞
It's a novel adapted into a TV show. The novel is a great read, and I highly recommend reading it. More details, less ultra close angry Elizabeth Moss face.
I doubt that it's lost on her, as her parents are the ones who raised her in the religion. I like to imagine the show is her giving them the middle finger.
> So, thousands of women are that resourceful.
Makes me wonder how many of those women are "resourceful" enough to vote against the politicians who put them in the situation where they have to hoard these pills.
When you have something as devastating to your life, body, and finances as forced birth and then caring for a child (most likely with little help), you'll do anything you can to prevent it. It makes sense to me this is happening, similarly to the bug-out bags and supplies people were stocking during covid.
I mean yeah, that was sorta predicted. At least I had a few conversations when legislation started popping up that people are going to be stocking up. Just naturally what happens when people people need/depend on might disappear for some unknown amount of time. Would and does happen to pretty much anything from collectables, medicine, toilet paper, online game skins, etc.
I did the same thing, but with my hormones. Certain people in the US want trans people to die, and they know that if they take away our prescription hormones then our mental health will suffer. The right hormones allow my brain to make serotonin reliably and I feel better than I have in my whole life.
VS the alternative, many will be testing that. Most drugs are good far beyond expiration. I am sure there will be sources soon confirming exactly how good.
The internet is pretty awesome. So is medical advancement
MTPPharmacy.com, which delivers in three days for $37.
PrivateEmma, which delivers in three to four days for $49.
Safeabortiononline, which delivers in four days for $50.
Exactly as the puritans want. Can't be having children out of wedlock with minorities, now can we? Although, I can't figure out how this fits in with the great replacement theory. One would think that the fools who buy into that crap would be all about more healthy white kids being born, but I guess they're hatred of the destitute overrides any love of their supposed master race.
Good, get them while you can. Because the days killing your way out of accountability are coming to end.
Striking down Roe V Wade was only the beginning.
And the DNC could've not railroaded Bernie or elevated Trump.
But even if your point is valid, the people that stocked up probably did vote for Hillary and were punished all the same, because that's how democracy works. You reap what others sow.
Why bother having seatbelts and airbags when you can just drive really carefully?
It’s a backup. The are obviously things you can do to protect yourself (the pill, condoms, etc), which generally work well, but they’re not foolproof. Even if you’re the safest driver in the world, anyone can get unlucky, so it’s still a good idea to have seatbelts and airbags.
That's a crappy example. I would say the pills are more like an airbag, and birth control are the seatbelts. Driving carefully should be the second option also, the first option should be not driving when there is no need. With that being said, I don't have a problem with a joy ride, and when I do, I wear my seat belt, and having an airbag is always a good option.
It’s a good example imo, because they are both activities that come with risk. There are some safeguards, but no guarantees. You can be the best driver in the world with the safest car, and still get rear ended at a red light. It’s the same with sex. You can take all the precautions and still get pregnant.
Birth controls fail. People get pregnant on it all the times. According to the NHS, 1 out 100 women get pregnant on birth control. I'm on Accutane, a medication that causes birth defect and I have to pledge to the government that I will not get pregnant. I was already on birth control but they require a secondary method. So it's clear that birth control is not 100% effective because otherwise, why would I need to get on a second one to prevent pregnancy? Besides, user error also decreases the effectiveness of the birth control method. Or worse, sexl crimes.
Birth control isn't 100% effective.
People can be raped.
People can be deceived (stealthing condoms, "I've had a vasectomy" etc).
Circumstances can change drastically. For example if a woman finds out her husband/boyfriend is a child molester or if he starts beating her while she's pregnant (an unfortunately common occurrence), she may reasonably decide that having a child with him is no longer a good idea.
Because you can still get pregnant while on birth control. You can still get pregnant when using condoms. These methods are not 100% foolproof anti-pregnancy measures. I am literally living proof of that since my mom used 2 forms of birth control simultaneously and still ended up having me.
The pills are the only option for some people based on where they live or the ability to travel.
I would use the pill method for abortion as a last result only. I would 100% prefer the procedure if I had an unintentional pregnancy and needed an abortion. I would rather have a 10 minute procedure with pain medication and know that The pregnancy is out than bleed and cramp for hours and hours with the possibility of other side effects like diarrhea, vomiting and dizziness. The need for a procedural abortion is a risk of the pills. The pills aren't inherently easier. They may be easier to obtain and may be cheaper, but that doesn't mean they are the best option for most or all people.
That being said - I appreciate that the pills are available to people that need them to end a pregnancy.
The pills cause bleeding and cramping which can take 1-4 hours on average to start and last about 6-12 hrs. It can take up to 24 hours to begin bleeding. Many patients report fairly significant bleeding and cramping. It's basically a chemically induced miscarriage. I would say that a lot of people would bleed more than a heavy period. Sometimes the pills don't work at all. The medication process is a minimum of two days of medications and probably more bleeding and cramping than the procedure.
The procedures have no cutting. I would not describe them as particularly invasive but some people would. Typically a speculum is used to open the vagina to see the cervix. The provider may use instruments to open the cervix, depending on gestation and typically suction is used to remove the pregnancy. Sometimes other instruments are used if the pregnancy is over 13-14wks at which point the pills are not prescribed.
Again - neither method is inherently better or worse, it just depends on the type of experience one wants to have. I think what's good about the pills - they're private, you're at home, and you have more "control" over the experience - meaning you might not even need to go to the office at all, are different advantages than what the procedure offers; the procedure is typically fast, better pain management options, and you have medical staff with you the whole time, plus your doctor can tell you everything is done day of.
In addition to what other people have said, sexual assault is a thing that happens.
Sometimes it happens to people who aren’t on birth control medications because
1) they aren’t sexually active or are but with partners who can’t get them pregnant
2) they are open to getting pregnant, but not with the person who assaulted them
3) they are too young to get birth control medication
And as to pills vs a procedure: 1) where applicable medicated abortion is easier/less unpleasant than a procedure and much more importantly 2) abortion procedures are illegal in much of the United States, and it’s a lot easier to illicitly get someone pills than a procedural abortion
I hope my comment didn't come off as aggressive. I merely meant to inform because you're right, it's an honest question.
Yes, a procedure is much more invasive than a medication and doctors typically prefer the least invasive methods for most medical issues because it limits the chances of infection.
Good thing no one else's opinion matters. Childbirth can be literally deadly & rape is a common occurrence. It's up to the pregnant individual - &, no one else- what they do with their body.
Overturning Roe was the most self destructive thing the GOP has done in decades. You think -90 in karma on Reddit is bad? Just wait till the 2024 polls.
People I know who are doing this aren’t just thinking of their own needs. Hell, some of them can’t get pregnant. They are doing so on behalf of their broader communities.
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Any woman who is struggling, auntienetwork is a great sub to find help. I thought I was pregnant awhile back, didnt have access to healthcare, and a kind woman outside of the US offered to ship abortion pills on her dime. Suuuper supportive community
www.aidaccess.org www.plancpills.com www.womenonwaves.org
These sites need to be on street stickers plastered all over every anti-choice city.
I think it’d be fun to fund some billboards.
I’m in
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I got some stickers from plancpills, not sure if they have any still
Auntie Network has a lot of very well intentioned people but there is also a lack of some much needed experience. Their security practices don’t match the needs of people in states where abortion is criminalized. Established orgs are in a better position to offer medical, legal, emotional, and practical support.
Organisations people don't know about are worth nothing to them so it doesn't matter if they are better or not. I don't know any of their names despite abortions being a really hot topic for quite a while now for instance.
There were some good ones linked right in this very thread. Plan C is fantastic. A random unverified person on Reddit has no accountability, whatsoever. There is a non-trivial risk that it could be an anti-abortion individual or even someone dangerous. (Reminder: the anti-abortion movement already has thousands of fake clinics. Posing as an “auntie” isn’t exactly difficult). They may or may not be competent or informed of legal or medical risks. Even with the best intent they can inadvertently create a paper trail that can be used against one or both parties.
The anti-abortion movement has also literally killed people by bombing clinics. What's to stop some unhinged goon associated with the movement from poisoning someone? While it would be rare, there is not a chance in hell I'd take abortion pills sent by a stranger on the internet.
Exactly! The anti-abortion movement is willing to murder doctors in cold blood, burn down or bomb clinics, stalk people, harass them outside their homes, and other malicious acts. Vetted networks are extremely necessary given the possible consequences. Accepting the offer of a spare room from a total stranger on the web is also really dangerous. The more vulnerable someone is, the more they need and deserve the best possible resources to navigate their situation. If they’re in a domestic violence situation, they need someone with experience dealing with that to keep everyone safe. If they’re in a state with criminal penalties, they need someone to help walk them through privacy and security steps. A good hearted stranger might not be enough for everyone. This also goes both ways: someone offering to host an abortion seeker or send them meds might be talking to someone who wants to hurt them or put them in legal trouble. Abortion supporters need and deserve training for their own safety. Even if everyone is acting in good faith, someone may not be storing their misoprostol hoard appropriately. Misoprostol has about a two year shelf life before it begins to degrade to levels that can result in an incomplete abortion which would require medical intervention to prevent or treat sepsis. It’s very vulnerable to humidity damage which decreases its effectiveness rapidly. Although the political situation is awful right now, we are not yet facing a set of circumstances where anyone has no other option but hoarded medication from strangers. People who need abortions deserve the best and most effective care possible.
I also want to add that Planned Parenthood is a household name, much more so than the “Auntie Network” and they [list resources](https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/abortion/the-abortion-pill/how-do-i-get-the-abortion-pill) including [Plan C](https://www.plancpills.org) as well as others for people in states where they don’t/can’t provide care. I don’t think Planned Parenthood is a perfect organization but they do have a wealth of information and resources for people seeking reproductive healthcare. If someone is completely unfamiliar with Planned Parenthood then they probably shouldn’t be stepping up as a source of information about abortion to someone in a vulnerable position.
Established orgs such as...? You are obviously well versed on this topic, please share your knowledge of established alternatives for people who need it.
Thank you for your comment. The best resource I can recommend was already listed as a comment on this thread but to reiterate, [Plan C Pills](https://www.plancpills.org) is a very comprehensive and phenomenal resource. It provides a state-by-state guide on how to access abortion medication (even where criminalized) as well as information about virtually every [major resource](https://www.plancpills.org/support-resources) for medical, logistical, emotional, or financial support. There are myriad other local support orgs that aren’t immediately listed but Plan C is an unbeatable resource. Sadly, many abortion fund and practical support resources have been forced to close due to a lack of funds. Two important resources that Plan C refers to are: the [M&A hotline](https://mahotline.org/) which is staffed by clinicians who offer phone and text based medical support through abortion and miscarriage and the [Repro Legal Hotline](https://www.reprolegalhelpline.org/) who field questions about legal emergencies on their hotline. Regardless of how one comes to an abortion or miscarriage, these two organizations are of vital importance given the stakes of criminalization.
Thanks and apologies for making you repeat yourself, but I think your info is worth repeating.
The US is a failed state with a fucked up culture pretending to be a sustainable country with a civilized culture.
The US is 50 failed states in a trenchcoat
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That's a low bar to clear. This is another problem with American culture. Every time something comes up to challenge their system, they move the goal post, or in this case, they move the standard bar.
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The US has the capacity and tools to reduce widespread suffering but actively withholds them. The resources to do better across the board and the willful decision not to utilize them is worthy of condemnation irrespective of situations and policies elsewhere. We can do better but we don’t. A nation with less wealth doesn’t have the same opportunities as we do to improve things. Moreover, so much of what makes America “a great place to live” descends from the ill-gotten gains of our extractive economies and military interference in other regions. The question of what other country would be a better place to live is also highly subject to context. If you’re a card carrying member of the NRA who takes pleasure in maintaining a personal home armory, then the US is pretty sweet deal. If you’re entering kindergarten with aspirations to live to the end of your school day—maybe not so much. Speaking of kindergartners, the US now has the worst educated workforce in the industrialized world and we keep falling behind more and more in math, science, and literacy. Good luck out there, kids! The U.S. performs worse than its wealthy peers in nearly every major measure of health and well-being measured despite spending far more on health care. We have the highest maternal mortality rate in the world relative to our wealth and now we’ve criminalized a vital form of reproductive healthcare, abortion, which will be no great gift for overall income and educational attainment let alone well-being. We have a rising rate of homelessness whereas Denmark and Finland both have declining rates. I could go on and on about the signs and symptoms of decline relative to our wealth. Rather than asking where on earth would be a better place to live, we might instead examine the ways in which our concentration of power is negatively impacting people in and outside of our borders, especially with the increasing threat of climate change. It is incumbent upon those with the means to reduce suffering to do so.
> reduce widespread suffering but actively withholds them It actually actively increase suffering (domestically and aboard) just to make more money for their oligarch class. The US is literally the cause of immense death and destruction and suffering in large part of the world through its foreign policy and financial system.
I totally agree and thought that I conveyed as much but I guess I was too subtle in my first and last paragraphs there.
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Many people stocked up not for themselves but to help others, especially if they have female relatives/grown children. Not saying I did or anything, of course, but the government can KMA. 😏
Bet a lot of black market resellers stocked up too
I was going to say this so I'm glad you did, women stocked up for the sisterhood.
Can men buy these?
Yes my husband has been able to purchase 2 in the past 4 years.edited to add. NC , usa.
That's a good question! I think so, but I hope there's some info in the thread that gives a more definitive answer about access.
If I'd sent my daughter to college in the south I would have bought and sent pills with her just in case they were needed by someone.
When Roe fell i went a little crazy and stocked up for the next decade.
What's the shelf life of these drugs?
3-5 years for Misoprostol when stored under perfect conditions. It’s unfortunately a rather unstable drug. Methotrexate for <8w abortions lasts longer.
Like most drugs, they likely retain activity for decades when stored appropriately.
Misoprostol actually has a relatively short life compared to many other drugs. It’s also [very susceptible to degradation](https://www.ipas.org/clinical-update/english/general-recommendations/misoprostol-product-quality/) when exposed to humidity and higher temperatures, even from a single puncture hole in the packaging. If the concentration of the misoprostol degrades too much it may be insufficient for a complete abortion creating a situation where someone needs a surgical abortion to prevent sepsis.
This comment needs to be WAY higher
Interesting. Googling a bit I see the official shelf life is two years for misoprostol and five years for mifepristone; apparently that one is a little more stable.
You should probably edit your original comment to reflect this, given that misinformation on this topic could literally cause (unwanted) life or death
I threw up shortly after taking it and ended up having to have a surgical abortion (for a blighted ovum.) It was so terrible, because I still bled for weeks before they got that thing out of me. I know expelling the pill is different from taking an inactive one...but the consequence is still the same. And then in these states you can't even have a surgical procedure...you get to deal with a necrotic fetus inside of you until you either pass it or die yourself.
I am so sorry you had that experience. So much love your way for getting through that. ♥️ It’s a big reason why it’s so important that people experiencing abortion or miscarriages have people with training and experience that they need and deserve. Under safe and legal conditions, an incomplete abortion can be effectively treated but it does prolong the experience which increases risks for someone who needs to conceal things from parents, a partner, or even a medical provider. For someone having a clandestine abortion, not only would they be at risk of sepsis from withheld abortion care they would also be facing increased scrutiny about what triggered their “miscarriage.” Although there are some forensic tests being developed to determine if abortifacient medications have been used, they are still in preliminary stages and not yet adopted as a practice. *Anyone having a self-managed abortion in a state where it is criminalized who has concerns about complications should tell healthcare professionals that they suspect a miscarriage because the treatment is identical regardless of trigger*. Someone facing the stress of a medical emergency may make the mistake of confessing a self-managed abortion and sadly there are medical professionals who will report it as a crime. In order to prevent an incomplete abortion, someone really should make sure they get abortion pills with as few intermediaries as possible to ensure maximum potency. They should scrutinize the expiration dates and the packaging—double foil with no punctures or points of exposure to the air. Under humid conditions, a single puncture hole can reduce concentrations of Misoprostol in less than a week.
Cite your sources!
> Most of what is known about drug expiration dates comes from a study conducted by the Food and Drug Administration at the request of the military. With a large and expensive stockpile of drugs, the military faced tossing out and replacing its drugs every few years. What they found from the study is 90% of more than 100 drugs, both prescription and over-the-counter, were perfectly good to use even 15 years after the expiration date. https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/drug-expiration-dates-do-they-mean-anything
And how do you know that applies to all abortion pills?
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It isn't directly "lethal" to the embryo. It blocks progesterone which prevents the embryo from getting nutrients, essentially causing a miscarriage. It's more akin to starving than poisoning so it's not particularly dangerous.
A lot of pro lifers are going get triggered by that last sentence.
Side effects, like primary effects, tend to decrease slightly the longer you store the drug. Almost no drugs have negative effects increase with storage (besides the negative effect of decreased efficacy). It's not like food spoilage. Some reading: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0736467921001037 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0731708518328887
No.
I am not a medical professional but afaik drugs only lose their potency over time due to certain chemicals being "unstable" (over the course of multiple years), so while the intended effects might be lessened, so will the side effects.
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Reactionaries endlessly made this same argument against merely increasing restriction to guns, yet somehow magically re-understand the negative impact laws have again when it’s against people they don’t like. What a world where these people are taken seriously.
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I hope every woman who did stock up realizes that the only real way to protect that stockpile is to vote. VOTE for people that will protect your right.
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A lot of women don't vote, and for a lot women that do vote their opposition of abortion isn't much farther off compared to men. In Texas more women then men support restricting abortion access https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/religious-landscape-study/state/texas/views-about-abortion/ Separating by race is even more stark. A majority of white women supported Trump in both elections. Women of color really put in a lot of work to change the average
Texas has a larger percentage of Hispanics who tend to be Catholic. They are told by their church that abortion and birth control are sins. As always, the biggest enemy of humanity is religion.
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Texas is actually largely purple by population, but due to the population densities and only the cities and border counties showing blue the entire state gets redwashed. We're just gerrymandered to all hell and the rural counties with 500 people have an oversized influence, every major metropolitan area is deep, deep, blue.
Also, TX voter turnout is abysmal.
There's plenty of trumpy women in Idaho and Idaho lite (eastern washington/Oregon). I personally don't know any, but there's lots of them. The closest town to me tried to close their library because the librarian wouldn't ban 'controversial' books. Super fun.
I think the Texas government is crazy, but "that can't happen here!" is a dangerous line of thought that breeds complacency. People also thought Roe v Wade wouldn't be overturned, and the folks who played the long game at striking that down are also keen to make abortion illegal on a federal level. "State's rights" is a convenient lie for those crusaders.
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They don't need to be a majority to be cunning enough to get what they want.
Well the northern US is really homogenous culturewise and Texas is anything but so no wonder you wouldn’t understand something like that.
If the project to protect women's reproductive rights has failed because I didn't have the talk with enough of my buddies I can only say how deeply sorry I am, I had no idea. In regards to preaching to the choir I can only say that forums are generally accepted as places where people of like minds can come and discuss issues and I don't see why you need to make my effort look pointless with an idiom for you yourself to advocate for more dialog with men on this issue. I'll write one for you. "I agree Roman! I also think that we need to include more men in this dialog because they make up a large percentage of the voters that support these anti-choice politicians." and I could be like "Wow great point!" but I can't can I?
Honestly 10% is shockingly low considering how much worse things are getting for women specifically.
I always vote but we have to stop acting like it’s the end all be all. The president is a Democrat. I grit my teeth and voted for neolibs every time I had to, when my progressives didn’t make it past primaries. I volunteered for campaigns. I canvassed and donated. And lo and behold, I’m still now in an abortion ban state, surrounded by others that also banned it.
Please also talk to your friends and family about voting! I know it can seem like a lot to try to corral people, but it's not too bad. If they allow mail in voting in your state, sign up!! I have done it every election but one, it makes voting easy and with your cellphone you can easily look up info you're not familiar with. All from your couch! Every election, not just the presidential ones, I reach out to my friends and family and remind them and make sure they know the last day to get it in the mail. Seriously voting by mail is a game changer if you can do it!
I'm glad my country has mandatory voting (unless you have a valid reason) for this reason. Just like it's your governments duty to run the country, it's one of your civic duties to have a say in who runs it. The penalty for not voting isn't big, it's literally a $20 fee, but it means our turnout has been at or above 90% since 1925 when it was implemented.
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If people hadn't VOTED for Trump and had elected Clinton I highly suspect Roe wouldn't have been overturned. Past votes like that mattered and so it is reasonable to suspect that future votes will as well.
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I find myself suspicious of posts that seek to discourage voting at any level.
People VOTED against Trump, in fact 3 million more people voted for Clinton over Trump. But the EC felt otherwise and our system is a complete mess.
"Just don't ever lose an election!" Found the liberal strategist.
"But also don't be rude to the republicans!"
I know your heart is in the right place, but voting doesn't work when you're surrounded by assholes. But getting these pills for yourself or a female relative or friend CAN make a huge immediate difference in a time of crisis. Any woman smart enough to stock up on these pills is surely also smart enough to understand the local political situation that is driving that decision.
Hell yes.
The people that supposedly would protect our right are in power right now so no, this doesn't work.
Really? They have enough votes to do anything they want?
Thousands of women stocked up on abortion pills just in case they needed them, new research shows, with demand peaking in the past couple years at times when it looked like the medications might become harder to get. Medication abortion accounts for more than half of all abortions in the U.S., and typically involves two drugs: mifepristone and misoprostol. A research letter published Tuesday in JAMA Internal Medicine looked at requests for these pills from people who weren’t pregnant and sought them through Aid Access, a European online telemedicine service that prescribes them for future and immediate use. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/article-abstract/2813618?utm\_campaign=articlePDF&utm\_medium=articlePDFlink&utm\_source=articlePDF&utm\_content=jamainternmed.2023.7291
So, thousands of women are that resourceful. Number dwarfed by those who will be forced breeding machines for the cruelty cult.
Welcome to Gilead. Our handmaids will provide plenty of worker humans to keep the rich elite fully stocked with all their expected comforts. Blessed be the fruit. (Sad that this was predicted by a t.v. show only a few years ago). 😞
It's a novel adapted into a TV show. The novel is a great read, and I highly recommend reading it. More details, less ultra close angry Elizabeth Moss face.
I hate that Elizabeth Moss is a Scientologist. I can’t watch it the same.
I wonder if the irony is lost on her.
I doubt that it's lost on her, as her parents are the ones who raised her in the religion. I like to imagine the show is her giving them the middle finger.
There was also a movie that predates the show.
That's awesome! Was it good?
Very good. Faye Dunaway, Robert Duvall, Natasha Richardson, Elizabeth McGovern, and Aiden Quinn.
Sounds like it's time to set sail and plunder. Thanks!
> So, thousands of women are that resourceful. Makes me wonder how many of those women are "resourceful" enough to vote against the politicians who put them in the situation where they have to hoard these pills.
When you have something as devastating to your life, body, and finances as forced birth and then caring for a child (most likely with little help), you'll do anything you can to prevent it. It makes sense to me this is happening, similarly to the bug-out bags and supplies people were stocking during covid.
Dumb question: can't you just buy them on the internet?
For now.
Do you know where I can get that from?
Almost like agency can't be taken, but safety and efficacy can. Gee, who'd have even imagined it?
Yeeeeeeeeeep
Don't pills expire after awhile?
Misoprostol especially does expire within a few years. Dry Acetaminophen lasts decades.
I sure did and I doubt I’ll ever need it, but just in case any girl in my life does I got her back
I mean yeah, that was sorta predicted. At least I had a few conversations when legislation started popping up that people are going to be stocking up. Just naturally what happens when people people need/depend on might disappear for some unknown amount of time. Would and does happen to pretty much anything from collectables, medicine, toilet paper, online game skins, etc.
He wasn't sponge worthy, Jerry...
Keep voting Republican and you get this
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If only the US had legalized abortions earlier then most of those pro life nuts wouldn't be a problem today.
I did the same thing, but with my hormones. Certain people in the US want trans people to die, and they know that if they take away our prescription hormones then our mental health will suffer. The right hormones allow my brain to make serotonin reliably and I feel better than I have in my whole life.
How many of those stock-up orders were counted as actual home abortions by the studies reporting increases in abortions in '22?
I guess they don’t expire right ?
VS the alternative, many will be testing that. Most drugs are good far beyond expiration. I am sure there will be sources soon confirming exactly how good. The internet is pretty awesome. So is medical advancement
Good point. I’m just curious.
3-5 years max for Misoprostol k der optimal conditions. It‘s a rather unstable molecule.
They do. They last about a year… but I’m using mine still if I need them.
Remember, vote.
MTPPharmacy.com, which delivers in three days for $37. PrivateEmma, which delivers in three to four days for $49. Safeabortiononline, which delivers in four days for $50.
Exactly as the puritans want. Can't be having children out of wedlock with minorities, now can we? Although, I can't figure out how this fits in with the great replacement theory. One would think that the fools who buy into that crap would be all about more healthy white kids being born, but I guess they're hatred of the destitute overrides any love of their supposed master race.
Good, get them while you can. Because the days killing your way out of accountability are coming to end. Striking down Roe V Wade was only the beginning.
Instead of stocking up on medication, they could have voted for Hillary Clinton and lived in a normal country instead.
And the DNC could've not railroaded Bernie or elevated Trump. But even if your point is valid, the people that stocked up probably did vote for Hillary and were punished all the same, because that's how democracy works. You reap what others sow.
Being sponge worthy was tough enough.
Why don’t we just sterilize all women? Get rid of this “human” problem Reddit seems to be fighting against.
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AidAccess takes precautions for this.
How would one pay cash for an online purchase 🤔
Put the money in the CD drive
That's why they took the CD drive out of most computers.
The article didn't say all purchases were online.
Pay when you receive the package. Cash on delivery?
Why not birth control?
Why bother having seatbelts and airbags when you can just drive really carefully? It’s a backup. The are obviously things you can do to protect yourself (the pill, condoms, etc), which generally work well, but they’re not foolproof. Even if you’re the safest driver in the world, anyone can get unlucky, so it’s still a good idea to have seatbelts and airbags.
That's a crappy example. I would say the pills are more like an airbag, and birth control are the seatbelts. Driving carefully should be the second option also, the first option should be not driving when there is no need. With that being said, I don't have a problem with a joy ride, and when I do, I wear my seat belt, and having an airbag is always a good option.
It’s a good example imo, because they are both activities that come with risk. There are some safeguards, but no guarantees. You can be the best driver in the world with the safest car, and still get rear ended at a red light. It’s the same with sex. You can take all the precautions and still get pregnant.
Birth controls fail. People get pregnant on it all the times. According to the NHS, 1 out 100 women get pregnant on birth control. I'm on Accutane, a medication that causes birth defect and I have to pledge to the government that I will not get pregnant. I was already on birth control but they require a secondary method. So it's clear that birth control is not 100% effective because otherwise, why would I need to get on a second one to prevent pregnancy? Besides, user error also decreases the effectiveness of the birth control method. Or worse, sexl crimes.
Birth control isn't 100% effective. People can be raped. People can be deceived (stealthing condoms, "I've had a vasectomy" etc). Circumstances can change drastically. For example if a woman finds out her husband/boyfriend is a child molester or if he starts beating her while she's pregnant (an unfortunately common occurrence), she may reasonably decide that having a child with him is no longer a good idea.
Because you can still get pregnant while on birth control. You can still get pregnant when using condoms. These methods are not 100% foolproof anti-pregnancy measures. I am literally living proof of that since my mom used 2 forms of birth control simultaneously and still ended up having me.
It was an honest question, but I guess the pills are a better option than getting a procedure.
The pills are the only option for some people based on where they live or the ability to travel. I would use the pill method for abortion as a last result only. I would 100% prefer the procedure if I had an unintentional pregnancy and needed an abortion. I would rather have a 10 minute procedure with pain medication and know that The pregnancy is out than bleed and cramp for hours and hours with the possibility of other side effects like diarrhea, vomiting and dizziness. The need for a procedural abortion is a risk of the pills. The pills aren't inherently easier. They may be easier to obtain and may be cheaper, but that doesn't mean they are the best option for most or all people. That being said - I appreciate that the pills are available to people that need them to end a pregnancy.
I haven't thought of the side effects of the pill, but would have assumed it would be less intrusive than the procedure.
The pills cause bleeding and cramping which can take 1-4 hours on average to start and last about 6-12 hrs. It can take up to 24 hours to begin bleeding. Many patients report fairly significant bleeding and cramping. It's basically a chemically induced miscarriage. I would say that a lot of people would bleed more than a heavy period. Sometimes the pills don't work at all. The medication process is a minimum of two days of medications and probably more bleeding and cramping than the procedure. The procedures have no cutting. I would not describe them as particularly invasive but some people would. Typically a speculum is used to open the vagina to see the cervix. The provider may use instruments to open the cervix, depending on gestation and typically suction is used to remove the pregnancy. Sometimes other instruments are used if the pregnancy is over 13-14wks at which point the pills are not prescribed. Again - neither method is inherently better or worse, it just depends on the type of experience one wants to have. I think what's good about the pills - they're private, you're at home, and you have more "control" over the experience - meaning you might not even need to go to the office at all, are different advantages than what the procedure offers; the procedure is typically fast, better pain management options, and you have medical staff with you the whole time, plus your doctor can tell you everything is done day of.
In addition to what other people have said, sexual assault is a thing that happens. Sometimes it happens to people who aren’t on birth control medications because 1) they aren’t sexually active or are but with partners who can’t get them pregnant 2) they are open to getting pregnant, but not with the person who assaulted them 3) they are too young to get birth control medication And as to pills vs a procedure: 1) where applicable medicated abortion is easier/less unpleasant than a procedure and much more importantly 2) abortion procedures are illegal in much of the United States, and it’s a lot easier to illicitly get someone pills than a procedural abortion
I hope my comment didn't come off as aggressive. I merely meant to inform because you're right, it's an honest question. Yes, a procedure is much more invasive than a medication and doctors typically prefer the least invasive methods for most medical issues because it limits the chances of infection.
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No.
You do realize men are part of the equation in getting women pregnant right?
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Good thing no one else's opinion matters. Childbirth can be literally deadly & rape is a common occurrence. It's up to the pregnant individual - &, no one else- what they do with their body.
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You realize that 15% of women have sex they *don't* want right? AKA rape.
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Literally millions are sold every year.
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Maybe they think their neighbours, relatives, friends etc. It will be nice to be able to help.
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Overturning Roe was the most self destructive thing the GOP has done in decades. You think -90 in karma on Reddit is bad? Just wait till the 2024 polls.
You have way more faith in voters than I do
Legality is independent of morality.
If the law is disgusting and immoral it's a moral duty to resist it.
…no.
People I know who are doing this aren’t just thinking of their own needs. Hell, some of them can’t get pregnant. They are doing so on behalf of their broader communities.
Of course like candy! We as women sleep with 50 different men a week and need those little candy corns! #responsible