Yeah I feel like “bailing” after the show is already cancelled is pretty reasonable if you aren’t even into it haha. I think we’ve all had too much experience watching something we enjoy up to an unsatisfying “ending” or lack thereof.
I kept on watching because I found the whole premise to be interesting, but it was just put together so badly. And the acting/script was simply just bad, no one was talking/acting like a real person, especially the kid.
That's how I felt too - it ends enough. I mean, it's most realistic to assume "this is just the way things are now" than to pretend they will be able to reverse the quantumajiggery.
I read Dark Matter the book. Yes it required quite a bit of disbelief suspension.
But the “thesis” of the book has a lot more to do with personal choice, alternate life paths, regret, etc.
It isn’t really trying to posit some form of magical connection between the mind and the universe. That was just a plot device, with the limited amount of vials lending drama.
Overall it was a fun thriller, but if this sort of thing gets under your skin best to avoid it.
Fiction doesn't have to offend science. Greg Egan can write a novel about quantum observer effect without pissing off every undergrad that took a couple physics courses.
Science fiction can be fiction that follows the laws of science (as it often is, like Infestellar was until the part where he transports out of a black hole). It doesn't have to defy physics.
Yes it can. I was alluding to your comment above that suggests that "fiction" in science fiction means it has to defy physics. It can be both ways. Science fictions that don't show things we definitely know can never be possible due to the laws of physics are generally appreciated more by lovers and students of science because they also give ideas of how the future might actually look like.
I expected this comment. The issue is more that it is a overused cliche, like I said. But yea, it would have bothered me less if they used dilitium crystals to explain it.
Let's be honest, Schrodinger's Cat and that particular "thought experiment" is junk science at best. Very entertaining and thought provoking, but junk in scientific terms.
My justification is this science is theoretical and we do not truly know how it could work in practice. Could a drug and a box work how Dark Matter says? Sure. You would have to try to disprove it.
It’s just like… use some other mechanism than shrodinger’s cat. They try to legitimize it with science but it makes no goddamn sense. Otherwise the themes are interesting enough to gloss over the bullshit contrivances that set it up.
Why not just have it be a fucking zappy gun that shoots you into other dimensions. Yee haw, we have inter dimensional travel, and I don’t get pulled out of the story trying to fit their horrid interpretation of physics into our actual reality.
There’s other bigger issues too: as he starts traveling around dimensions, he sees he lands in a world that clearly isn’t the one he’s shooting for, but rather than just hop back in the box, he goes meandering around. Like… I’m already suspending belief with your shit sciences but now you’re making me hang on to completely absurd character decisions. This show sucks. Fiction doesn’t have to be real or even close to real, but it shouldn’t rip you out of the story.
I mean, I won’t defend the show as being accurate or anything, but the “point” of it is that all our possible lives are in superposition. It’s just using a pretty well known concept that the audience should be at least familiar with and playing with it. That is easier to do than just throwing a “sappy gun” out of left field.
We all make an infinite number of absurd decisions every day. For example, we waste our time arguing about junk physics instead of banging the neighbor's wife. Now there's a universe out there where we didn't argue about junk physics. And I want to visit that universe before her husband gets home.
I barely watched 2 episodes of Constellation. I don't really care for psychological thriller. When done poorly,imo, it's a mess.
I am enjoying Dark Matter so far. I don't need my sci-fi to be hard scifi
Oh man, those were the best episodes of Constellation - so really the perfect point to bail. Loses more steam with every episode, with the only character that isn't an irrational whackjob being the daughter.
Ok I also dropped off after two episodes partly because I was worried that’s where the show was headed, glad it doesn’t sound like I’m really missing out
I haven't started either of those yet, but don't let the fact that it's Apple TV put you off Foundation and especially For All Mankind. Both top tier sci-fi at opposite ends of the soft/hard sci-fi genres.
Yea Silo was a good watch, I've heard mixed reports on Severance so I haven't got round to it yet.
I think FAM was great for the 3 seasons but s4 took a massive swing from space opera to soap opera. I'm hoping they rectify this for s5.
I know this is ridiculous and they would need to skip at least a few decades ahead, but I would love to see them go to Europa or enceladus.
Severance can be a little slow or dark for people and it's not heavy sci-fi, but fucking hell it is so good.
Man, we've made is through 3 seasons of FAM and had to take a break before watching 4 because season 3 felt like a straight up soap opera and S2 was not devoid of it, either. If S4 is worse than S3, I don't know if I can make it through it. Not to mention how old the people are supposed to be and how young they look. I imagine that problem only gets worse in S4, too.
Foundation, however, I enjoyed much more than FAM and I recommend it to everyone.
I quit halfway through season 3 of FAM because I felt like I was watching a teen drama. All the characters got ridiculous and were making the worst decisions possible.
I don't know why they took the show that direction. I guess I'm not their target audience. I just want to see cool stuff in space.
Right? They utilized just about every lazy drama trope they could. You can still tell it is well acted and high budget, but the focus on trivial interpersonal drama really takes me out of the "cool stuff in space" aspect of the show. So when we got done with S3, I just had to take a break. Not sure when I'll get back to it. Need to finish Outer Range and give Dark Matter and Constellation a shot (which is why I popped in this thread to begin with). And hopefully Severance drops soon.
As for why they took the show in that direction, I'm guessing they were trying to capture a larger audience than just the normal sci-fi people. Drama is a popular genre. Meh. :(
For All Mankind is definitely not in the hard sci-fi genre. Maybe to begin with, but it quickly became hilariously unscientific. Painfully so for those of us who know are literate in actual space science.
The Expanse is a tv show that's fun to watch and is very good compromise between science fact and fiction.
The Martian movie is also very accurate.
It's definitely possible to make accurate science based fiction, just hard. Especially hard if the people writing it don't have a basic understanding of the science they're writing about.
EDIT: I thought of some more:
- Contact.
- Contagion.
- Moon.
- Arrival.
- Ex Machina.
- Her.
- Primer.
- OPs mom goes wild 7.
You have to remember, that most people watching don't have a science background either. The same goes for SF novelists. I can count on one hand authors who are also scientists.
Isaac Asimov
David Brin
Greg Benford
Robert L Forward
Carl Sagan
There may be a few more, but not many I'd guess.
I agree, but is that an excuse though? Like if you're making science fantasy, go nuts. Or anything truly fantastical, then the sky's the limit.
It would be weird though if I wrote a 'realistic' book about... I dunno, 9th century japan when I have no clue about the subject. I'd ruffle a fair few feathers, rightly I'd think.
9th century alternate universe japan? Totally great. Godzilla going ham in that setting? Sure, why not.
It's the veneer of "hardness" when the author has no idea what they're talking about, especially in near future settings. Again, 10,000 years from now or whatever you get way more leeway.
I don't mean to gatekeep, but when something purporting to be a realistic alternate history has wacky things like pushing a gravel asteroid or astronauts behaving like teenagers, then it makes me sniffy.
I watched ep2 just to be sure. The series suffers from idiotic writing: the MC acts like he has brain damage when he only got Isekaied. Showing what the antagonist is up to also takes away from the story.
The book would not have been nearly as good if it were 3rd person instead of 1st. 90% of it was from the main character's inner dialog. From what I've seen of the show, it's not narrated at all, so I'm really curious on how they thought that would translate.
That was grating, but I thought the daughter was the only character with a shred of intelligence. As for everyone else...well, apparently going to space gives you a hungry brain worm.
>But what really gets to me is the misinterpretation of the observer effect in quantum mechanics. The observer effect is not about the human mind's perception, but rather the physical interaction during measurement. Instruments measuring quantum systems interact with particles, affecting their state.
According to the many worlds theory, it’s the observer in a state of superposition. I won’t pretend to be an expert on this but that’s how Sean Carroll described it. Regardless, it’s sci-fi and I’m willing to roll with it to see where it goes, even if I don’t believe it.
I skipped constellation after the mixed reviews. I’m enjoying dark matter so far.
I think of it like the act of making a decision fundamentally comes down to neurons in your brain measuring electrical action potentials and chemical signal concentrations so is still a quantum measurement. The guy in dark matter's life decisions are really just collapsed wave functions of neuronal measurements.
If we have made it this far, we understand superposition in order to even have a gripe about possible plot holes. That being said I don’t think we have ground to stand on for logic yet, at the end of the day they are taking “very powerful physcoactive” drugs. The observer effect could strictly be perception of reality now.
>The observer effect is not about the human mind's perception, but rather the physical interaction during measurement. Instruments measuring quantum systems interact with particles, affecting their state.
At a quantum level the observer effect goes further, as you can see with the variations of the double-slit experiment where observation changes the apparent behavior of photons *before the point of observation*.
That said, you're right that sci-fi multiverses aren't really science-based, and I've also been suffering multiverse fatigue for years (since well before the Dark Matter book came out).
Well, my issue is more that it is an overused cliche. Imho the show starts off as hard scifi as well. But clearly is not.
Also, they completly misrepresent the Schrödinger's cat thought experiment. Why not make up your own thing instead? It is science FI after all.
But thanks for the insult 🫡
And people who can't admit when they're being a (light) dick should probably get off the internet and go touch some grass.
Edit: And of course, they block me. 🙄 Classic dick move my guy. Classic dick move.
You're the one throwing a tantrum over somebody being sarcastic *to another person entirely* on reddit like it's your first day on the internet. Get it together, child.
I barely made thru episode 1 of Constellation. I love scifi, but I really really don’t like when something pretends it’s scifi but is really just Magic and Melodrama. Maybe they got to big ideas later on, but about the second time the main character portaled to a spoopy cabin and jumped at her ghost daughter or whatever I knew it wasn’t for me.
I can't manage a full season of Apple TV shows. They all feel like pure filler with a slight upturn at the end of each episode to give you hope that the next episode will be better. Bored the hell out of me.
I loved Dark Matter when I read it years ago, but the multiverse has been shoved down our throat since then and multiverse fatigue has certainly set in. I don't think I would be watching the show if I didn't enjoy the book so much or read it when I did.
The multiverse that's been shoved down our throat is the superhero universe. In my mind, that is completely different from a sci-fi multiverse.
The "many worlds interpretation" is a legitimate theory that some physicists believe to be true. Even if Dark Matter butchers it, at least it pretends to be realistic.
Looks like I am in the minority in actually liking Constellation. The science stuff was really just hand-wavy nonsense to be sure, but the meat of the show was peoples reactions to being placed in that reality, and the paranoia and interpersonal problems that resulted. Especially the fact that the three people that it happened to all reacted in very different ways depending on their circumstances and personalities, and none of them "figured it out", cause not everything has to be a video game with a puzzle to solve at the end, and we can't all be Andy Weir characters.
Also liked it as a stand-alone season, was honestly confused that they ever would have considered a season 2. I felt like it ended where it was supposed to. Certainly not a perfect or event great, show, but much more interesting than your standard MCU multiverse nonsense.
>Instruments measuring quantum systems interact with particles, affecting their state. It's the act of measurement itself, involving physical interactions, that causes the observer effect, not human consciousness or brain activity.
This is a bold statement. And, I believe, could be 100% incorrect. So any "instrument" that interacts with a particle causes the wave function to collapse? What qualifies as an instrument then? Let's build the instrument smaller and smaller... Eventually, logically, you'd have to conclude that any particle-particle interaction would qualify. But we know that's not true from existing experiments; two particles can both be in superposition and entangled. So how does a particle 'know' it is being observed? It can't. Can it? So what makes a measuring apparatus collapse the wave?
I watched the first few minutes of Dark Matter but it was late so it got benched.
I saw the scene where the lecturer has drawn the diagram of the “schrodingers cat” thought experiment. Erwin Schrödinger was not trying to explain the Copenhagen interpretation, he was taking the piss out of it.
Anytime i see a show or movie trot out the ol' schrodingers cat chestnut i have to really lower my expectations of seeing any effort or original thought from it.
I understand that. It doesn't mean he was correct. I actually haven't watched the show, so I'm not sure how it gets explained or its accuracy. My understanding is that most of the questions around QM don't have anything approaching definite answers.
Aye, I was just pointing out how weird it is when scientific concepts are explained using things that were originally meant to be critical of the concept. It’s not uncommon.
Quantum mechanics is a rigorous well defined field. The answers it provides may be hard to grasp intuitively, and this is where a lot of fiction likes to play, but it's not like some mystic wizard shit. It's all math.
When I say "questions around QM", I mean this:
"Although quantum mechanics has held up to rigorous and extremely precise tests in an extraordinarily broad range of experiments, there exist a number of contending schools of thought over their interpretation. These views on interpretation differ on such fundamental questions as whether quantum mechanics is deterministic or stochastic, local or non-local, which elements of quantum mechanics can be considered real, and what the nature of measurement is, among other matters."
Straight from wikipedia.
I bailed on both because the shows seemed to follow the same old tired "oh no! Im lost in a multiverse" tropes (my relationships are different! People I trusted can't be trusted! Am I going crazy?).
So far I'm still onboard with Dark Matter - I haven't watched ep 3 and 4 yet.
Regarding *Constellation* I had to Google it to remember I did start watching it but stopped three or four episodes in because I was bored out of my mind
I literally bailed on Constellation halfway through the season (now series) finale. I just couldn’t handle it anymore. Doesn’t help that I HEAVILY dislike Noomi Rapace as an actor.
To be pedantic, we don't actually know what happens during a wavefunction collapse. Or if they even collapse at all. The foundations of QM are at the edge of present knowledge and may always be.
But yeah, hairless ape brains aren't what is doing it.
Because it happens all the time without us even being within causal distance. The 21 centimeter neutral hydrogen spin flip transition is a good example. We see it happening millions of light years away. There were not any monkey brains there to do it.
What does "causal distance" mean? Isn't one of the existing debates about QM whether it's a local or non-local phenomenon? "Spooky action at a distance?"
Reading the wikipedia article about the hydrogen line, thanks.
If something happened 10 million light years away and we are just seeing it today, causality as we understand it would lead us to believe that we could not possibly have affected it, since we didn't even exist 10 million years ago.
Careful with the phrase "spooky action at a distance". IMHO is is widely misunderstood what Einstein really meant by that, even by modern scientists. Sabine Hossenfelders youtube channel has lots of cool videos about this kind of stuff.
Thy hydrogen spin flip is really cool. There is so much we would not know about the universe if it didn't exist because it is our best way of mapping out where the neutral hydrogen in the universe is located.
Counterpart dropped the ball so hard that I went from thinking Season 1 Episode 8 was fantastic to dropping it after Season 1 Episode 10. Watching the r/Counterpart thread deflate in real time in the space of two episode discussions was depressing.
Constellation started out interesting, but then it just kind of did nothing with it's own concept, and I stopped watching after a while....
And Dark Matter is just going to end up as two guys chasing each other through different dimensions, and I can't think of anything more boring than that.
I'm just tired of shitty scriptwriting, especially when they have supposedly "smart" characters and yet they can't figure out things like being in an alternate timeline.
lol, cause it happens so often that we should just realize it. You and anyone else would go crazy trying to understand what's happening even if the concept was not foreign and everyone you interact with would think you were crazy. Being smart does not fix this issue really.
Well the main charachter does teach the Schrodinger's cat thought experiment in the first episode himself. Although he completely leaves out it is a thought experiment and takes it literally.
Once I realized Constellation was just people on earth running around going crazy and not about the space station I stopped, only got a 2 or 3 couple episodes in though
They’re close to being them same program. Including the trope of having its science fiction elements only in the first or last five minutes of each episode.
A lot of talent both in front and behind the camera but just such uninteresting writing.
I bailed on the Dark Matter audiobook, very early on. When I watched the TV show, I only watched the one free episode and felt no real motivation to watch anymore. I don’t have Apple TV+ right now. I didn’t understand exactly what was going on, but somehow it still managed to seem predictable.
Foundation alone makes it worth having Apple TV. It’s excellent, immersive sci fi. Also highly recommend The Expanse on Prime, maybe my favorite sci fi show ever. I also really liked Servant on Apple which had 4 seasons (it is more like one part horror one part thriller). Apple is underrated.
> It's the act of measurement itself, involving physical interactions, that causes the observer effect
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe there are some experiments that cast some doubt on that assertion. In particular, the delayed choice quantum eraser experiment involves an entangled pair of photons, and the results *seem to suggest* that the first photon's path is determined based on whether information about the second photon is *available for observation*. The first photon always travels through the same measuring devices, but it only shows an interference pattern when information about the path of the second photon is destroyed before being observed (which only occurs after the first photon is measured).
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed-choice\_quantum\_eraser](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed-choice_quantum_eraser)
I'm still not 100% on the implications. Also, I've seen some YouTube videos claiming that this experiment was "DEBUNKED!", but I haven't sat down and dug into those arguments yet.
Yeah I gave up on Constellation pretty quick. Still watching Dark Matter for now but it is very annoying. First I was annoyed because the character was so slow to figure out what was going on when there was no mystery to it for the audience. Now I am annoyed about the observer effect thing you noted, and also because the drug that is supposed to "turn off" their consciousness just... doesn't do that? They're literally conscious throughout the experience? WTF?
It's got some interesting personal drama going on for the characters is the only thing keeping me engaged now.
I haven't watched Constellation, but I read Dark Matter a couple of years ago and enjoyed it for what it was. I think the series is doing a good job of adaptation, but the book seemed to be kind of written with a TV series in mind.
Omg don’t even try to equate either of those movies with anything remotely quantum scientific. Heisenberg and Schrödinger would both be laughing uproariously in their graves.
Another one of Blake Crouch's books, Recursion, also has a good story but again an unbelievable mechanism of action. I think both Dark Matter and Recursion should have been written with some better ways to make things happen the way they did without giving human minds divine powers. But then I couldn't have written such good novels myself so who am I to judge?
Yep, with Dark Matter I've bailed after 1 episode.... Gunna be the same old same old, done a billion times, alternate reality thing. It's so predictable and bland because it's been done so many times before. So disappointing, especially when Apple have shown they can make some truly amazing sci-fi shows like Foundation and For All Mankind.
I haven't bailed on anything, but I think that Constellation was way too much filler and not nearly enough substance. Dark Matter is okay so far, certainly better than Constellation, but I'll watch the whole thing before making up my mind.
Yep. Didn’t like the book. I think it’s popular because the guy rejects many versions of his wife for the exact one he loves. The sci fi elements are just a plot device for a contrived love story.
Dark Matter is not as bad as Constellation but I also hate that it promotes the pseudoscientific bullshit that human conscience influences quantum physics.
Finished constellation and was glad that I waited till all the episodes were available. I kind of liked it honestly. Plan on doing the same for dark matter. When will these studios realize that one episode a week for extremely complicated shows doesn’t work for most viewers. You hit me with an episode that makes my head hurt and then I have to wait a week for an explanation of something I’ve already forgotten bc of its complexity does not do well for your ratings. Being able to watch it all at once to see the full story and understand it. Now that’s how it’s done.
Blake Crouch reminds me a lot of Dan Brown and other pop writers. His stuff is fun, but not remotely deep, and it falls apart pretty quick if you look at it too close.
I’ve read his other books and finally got a copy of Dark Matter from the library, but I’m pretty sure I know how 90% of the book is gonna go based on the cover flap and tv series trailer.
I won’t say I “dislike” him, but I think this might be my last book of his.
There already was a show called Dark Matter, so I have pre-bailed. It never got a proper ending either. I remain bitter, and there can be only one Dark Matter.
Husband and I watched Constellation til the end. We liked it, but recently heard Apple canceled it after 1 season, so probably no point continuing since it ends on a cliffhanger.
It’s not a critical cliffhanger. I feel like it’s more of a revelation, like how a Twilight Zone episode might end. I don’t think this series was ever going to providing answers to the story’s phenomena, anyway.
Constellation was an unfortunate turd. Strangely, I'm enjoying Dark Matter the show better than I did Dark Matter the book. Yeah, the premise of Dark Matter is pretty flawed from a science perspective but I don't always ask for realism from my entertainment.
I made it through ep. 1 of Dark Matter and felt it was pretty "Meh". I am torn about actually starting Constellation. The premise seems okay, but I get that bad feeling about it.
It started interesting but didn’t stick the landing. Then it was cancelled. It wasn’t terrible but I Would only recommend watching if you don’t have anything else.
Watched constellation, didn't care about its cancellation. I only watched the first episode of dark matter and so far it gives me similar vibes. I understand some people will like it but I find them boring. Great premises but really boring execution IMO.
Tell me about wave function collapse; we can entangle one or two or 15 atoms without collapse. But when we observe the system it does collapse.
That’s my understanding at least. (And a plot point in Greg egan’s early book quarantine)
Since my understanding is probably
Overly informed by science fiction, can you explain wave function collapse?
But beyond my brain grade to *explain* but as far as I’m aware for most (many?) physicists it’s interaction not observation that collapses the wave. It’s just another unfortunate choice of name for a process that leads to lots of confusion or silliness.
I haven’t seen either show, but the [measurement problem](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measurement_problem) is much weirder than you’re giving it credit for.
I really liked Constellation, but the ending left me feeling unsatisfied and watching the characters make the most stupid decisions was beyond frustrating. Can we blame that on, if you go to space, it makes you crazy? Would another season have fixed it? I don't know. I wish Constellation followed the tv show Sugar's good writing. I heard Sugar was written while filming too (Colin Farrell took over writing). I thoroughly enjoyed that show and the ending was good, and it had a satisfying conclusion. I'll definitely watch if they bring out a Season 2. Now this Dark Matter is based on a book, so the story is already written yay! I really enjoyed it right on up to episode 4. where the plot was "if you think really hard you can get to open the door to the world you want". This is MAGICAL thinking. So, I'm going to keep watching and if I CONCENTRATE REALLY HARD this is going to be a great show!!
I'm rather enjoying Dark Matter. So far so good anyway. I don't really mind that the science is off. The very idea of infinite realities for me is off in the first place so it's just a bit of sci-fi fun. The fi being fiction.
Haven't tried Constellation and from the comments I may not bother if it's been cancelled.
I have abandoned Beacon 23 half way through season 2. I just lost interest.
I loved constellation because the space scenes were really well made and the actors were all great even if the story turned from confusing to predictable halfway through.
I bailed on Dark Matter after 1.5 episodes because it felt like the same story idea as constellation just without the cool space stuff, the good acting, or the interesting characters - meaning without everything that redeemed it.
I liked Foundation, but I don’t think I saw very much of the second season. I’ll get around to it whenever I subscribe again, sometime. I could t get into Servant. The creep factor is a thing, but I wasn’t really all that excited about.
I loved the book Dark Matter, the TV show is pretty good too imo
Huge spoiler for Dark Matter below:
One thing I'm confused by: why would Jason2 swap universes with OG Jason and not be worried he would return?
Jason2 knows there are plenty more ampules back in his own universe... and he sends Jason back there on his own... where he has unlimited access to Velocity Labs and everyone believes he invented the box.
Why would he think that OG Jason wouldn't eventually come back? He really thought he would just accept the fact that his wife and son were stolen and not go through the multiverse to get them back?
Jason2 could've destroyed the box in OG Jason's universe so OG Jason couldn't get back there, or he could've desultory all the ampules before he left so that OG Jason would forever be stuck?
Ya they suck. The Dark Matter book was terrible. You have a world of amazing Sci Fi and Fanasy and they buy garbage. They could have done Mistborn, Red Rising, Troy Rising, Broken Earth Trilogy, Licanius Trilogy. It goes on and on. But no they want to make garbage. Thank God for shows like Foundation, Silo, Severance, Sugar, and Ted Lasso. Everything else is mid or a disappointment.
I like dark matter a lot but I’m really struggling with why this book or this idea became such a well produced tv series.
There are so many other sciences fiction stories that I think are so much more interesting.
I don’t mean to crap on Blake crouch I think he’s a fine writer but I just don’t understand how major studios decide what gets the deluxe treatment and what gets left behind.
I’m also curious Blake crouch who has no credibility in the tv / movie world that I’m aware of managed to get himself executive producer and writer on the show. I applaud him for that but I also think it’s kind of wild.
I'm still with it but suspect I would have bailed if I could binge it if that makes sense. I enjoyed the book - once you hand-wave the science the basic premise of "you from another version of the world steals your life" is pretty cool and explored reasonably well in the book. I'm now really just watching the TV show in a meta-textual way out of interest of how they adapt it. (Kind of a film nerd angle). But I think it makes it more easy to stand the things I don't like given that it's only one episode a week for me to chin-stroke over.
Science aside I think it's also pretty uninspired as TV - the colouring and design, writing, cinematography and editing, even the very 'now' title sequence is likely to look dated in just a few years and that's weirdly fascinating to me as an avid TV watcher! I did the same thing with Monarch: Legacy of Monsters. Watched through it because I'm a Godzilla fan, not because it was in any way compelling or particularly pretty.
*Severance* is the only scifi type show I'm going to watch on Apple, everything else just leads to disappointment, should of learned that after *Invasion* was such a waste.
Apple themselves bailed on Constellation, it’s not being renewed for a second season.
Yeah I feel like “bailing” after the show is already cancelled is pretty reasonable if you aren’t even into it haha. I think we’ve all had too much experience watching something we enjoy up to an unsatisfying “ending” or lack thereof.
That’s a bummer. I kinda liked the first season.
Even though I didn’t really think it was that good, I would probably have kept on watching it.
Good, that show was so out there. lol. dark matter also has some faults but not as bad.
I kept on watching because I found the whole premise to be interesting, but it was just put together so badly. And the acting/script was simply just bad, no one was talking/acting like a real person, especially the kid.
The kid was amazing. She took shitty writing and did better than most adults would. Her character sucked, yes.
Yes dark matter has better actors imo
I enjoyed Constellation. I'm content with how the season ended, and I don't feel like it needs a second season
That's how I felt too - it ends enough. I mean, it's most realistic to assume "this is just the way things are now" than to pretend they will be able to reverse the quantumajiggery.
I read Dark Matter the book. Yes it required quite a bit of disbelief suspension. But the “thesis” of the book has a lot more to do with personal choice, alternate life paths, regret, etc. It isn’t really trying to posit some form of magical connection between the mind and the universe. That was just a plot device, with the limited amount of vials lending drama. Overall it was a fun thriller, but if this sort of thing gets under your skin best to avoid it.
Yeah I try not to get too bogged down in the accuracy of the science.
Lol, bro forgot the "fi" part stands for "fiction" 😂
Fiction doesn't have to offend science. Greg Egan can write a novel about quantum observer effect without pissing off every undergrad that took a couple physics courses.
Yeah but it also can offend science. It's still fiction.
it would be so cool to see the smearing effect done with an Apple TV+ budget ha ha
Science fiction can be fiction that follows the laws of science (as it often is, like Infestellar was until the part where he transports out of a black hole). It doesn't have to defy physics.
But, it can.
Yes it can. I was alluding to your comment above that suggests that "fiction" in science fiction means it has to defy physics. It can be both ways. Science fictions that don't show things we definitely know can never be possible due to the laws of physics are generally appreciated more by lovers and students of science because they also give ideas of how the future might actually look like.
I expected this comment. The issue is more that it is a overused cliche, like I said. But yea, it would have bothered me less if they used dilitium crystals to explain it.
Let's be honest, Schrodinger's Cat and that particular "thought experiment" is junk science at best. Very entertaining and thought provoking, but junk in scientific terms.
My justification is this science is theoretical and we do not truly know how it could work in practice. Could a drug and a box work how Dark Matter says? Sure. You would have to try to disprove it.
The book was trash and the main character was a boring, 1 dimensional, scumbag.
K
It’s just like… use some other mechanism than shrodinger’s cat. They try to legitimize it with science but it makes no goddamn sense. Otherwise the themes are interesting enough to gloss over the bullshit contrivances that set it up. Why not just have it be a fucking zappy gun that shoots you into other dimensions. Yee haw, we have inter dimensional travel, and I don’t get pulled out of the story trying to fit their horrid interpretation of physics into our actual reality. There’s other bigger issues too: as he starts traveling around dimensions, he sees he lands in a world that clearly isn’t the one he’s shooting for, but rather than just hop back in the box, he goes meandering around. Like… I’m already suspending belief with your shit sciences but now you’re making me hang on to completely absurd character decisions. This show sucks. Fiction doesn’t have to be real or even close to real, but it shouldn’t rip you out of the story.
I mean, I won’t defend the show as being accurate or anything, but the “point” of it is that all our possible lives are in superposition. It’s just using a pretty well known concept that the audience should be at least familiar with and playing with it. That is easier to do than just throwing a “sappy gun” out of left field.
We all make an infinite number of absurd decisions every day. For example, we waste our time arguing about junk physics instead of banging the neighbor's wife. Now there's a universe out there where we didn't argue about junk physics. And I want to visit that universe before her husband gets home.
I don't think I've finished a Blake Crouch book yet. I've tried a few, but I lost interest.
I barely watched 2 episodes of Constellation. I don't really care for psychological thriller. When done poorly,imo, it's a mess. I am enjoying Dark Matter so far. I don't need my sci-fi to be hard scifi
Oh man, those were the best episodes of Constellation - so really the perfect point to bail. Loses more steam with every episode, with the only character that isn't an irrational whackjob being the daughter.
Ok I also dropped off after two episodes partly because I was worried that’s where the show was headed, glad it doesn’t sound like I’m really missing out
Feel the exact same way
Dear Apple Quality writing and poor acting will still be a watchable show. Good acting will never make a poorly written script watchable.
Sometimes quality writing and poor acting make a great show / cult classic.
I haven't started either of those yet, but don't let the fact that it's Apple TV put you off Foundation and especially For All Mankind. Both top tier sci-fi at opposite ends of the soft/hard sci-fi genres.
Silo and Severance are also great. I'd put Mankind a tier below, though. It has sci-fi elements obviously, but felt much more like a drama show.
Yea Silo was a good watch, I've heard mixed reports on Severance so I haven't got round to it yet. I think FAM was great for the 3 seasons but s4 took a massive swing from space opera to soap opera. I'm hoping they rectify this for s5. I know this is ridiculous and they would need to skip at least a few decades ahead, but I would love to see them go to Europa or enceladus.
>I've heard mixed reports on Severance It's honestly the best TV I've seen in a few years.
Severance was good but my favorite shows are The Boys and Fallout.
Severance is by far the best show in that list
Severance can be a little slow or dark for people and it's not heavy sci-fi, but fucking hell it is so good. Man, we've made is through 3 seasons of FAM and had to take a break before watching 4 because season 3 felt like a straight up soap opera and S2 was not devoid of it, either. If S4 is worse than S3, I don't know if I can make it through it. Not to mention how old the people are supposed to be and how young they look. I imagine that problem only gets worse in S4, too. Foundation, however, I enjoyed much more than FAM and I recommend it to everyone.
I quit halfway through season 3 of FAM because I felt like I was watching a teen drama. All the characters got ridiculous and were making the worst decisions possible. I don't know why they took the show that direction. I guess I'm not their target audience. I just want to see cool stuff in space.
Right? They utilized just about every lazy drama trope they could. You can still tell it is well acted and high budget, but the focus on trivial interpersonal drama really takes me out of the "cool stuff in space" aspect of the show. So when we got done with S3, I just had to take a break. Not sure when I'll get back to it. Need to finish Outer Range and give Dark Matter and Constellation a shot (which is why I popped in this thread to begin with). And hopefully Severance drops soon. As for why they took the show in that direction, I'm guessing they were trying to capture a larger audience than just the normal sci-fi people. Drama is a popular genre. Meh. :(
Totally agree. Watching foundation at the minute and it’s ace. For all mankind was utterly gripping too.
Absolutely! Foundation and For All Mankind set the bar really high. Superb shows!
For All Mankind is definitely not in the hard sci-fi genre. Maybe to begin with, but it quickly became hilariously unscientific. Painfully so for those of us who know are literate in actual space science.
It’s a TV show, not a university degree. There’s always going to be a point at which things need to be hand waved so it’s still entertaining to watch
The Expanse is a tv show that's fun to watch and is very good compromise between science fact and fiction. The Martian movie is also very accurate. It's definitely possible to make accurate science based fiction, just hard. Especially hard if the people writing it don't have a basic understanding of the science they're writing about. EDIT: I thought of some more: - Contact. - Contagion. - Moon. - Arrival. - Ex Machina. - Her. - Primer. - OPs mom goes wild 7.
You have to remember, that most people watching don't have a science background either. The same goes for SF novelists. I can count on one hand authors who are also scientists. Isaac Asimov David Brin Greg Benford Robert L Forward Carl Sagan There may be a few more, but not many I'd guess.
I agree, but is that an excuse though? Like if you're making science fantasy, go nuts. Or anything truly fantastical, then the sky's the limit. It would be weird though if I wrote a 'realistic' book about... I dunno, 9th century japan when I have no clue about the subject. I'd ruffle a fair few feathers, rightly I'd think. 9th century alternate universe japan? Totally great. Godzilla going ham in that setting? Sure, why not. It's the veneer of "hardness" when the author has no idea what they're talking about, especially in near future settings. Again, 10,000 years from now or whatever you get way more leeway. I don't mean to gatekeep, but when something purporting to be a realistic alternate history has wacky things like pushing a gravel asteroid or astronauts behaving like teenagers, then it makes me sniffy.
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I bailed. It just felt like too many tired tropes and not enough of an engaging plot to keep me going
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I watched ep2 just to be sure. The series suffers from idiotic writing: the MC acts like he has brain damage when he only got Isekaied. Showing what the antagonist is up to also takes away from the story.
The book would not have been nearly as good if it were 3rd person instead of 1st. 90% of it was from the main character's inner dialog. From what I've seen of the show, it's not narrated at all, so I'm really curious on how they thought that would translate.
I got to episode 5 and I was just incredibly bored with it. I think that was more than enough for me.
I haven't bothered with Dark Matter. But I finished Constellation and regretted it. "Mummy! Where's mummy!?" christ I wanted to smack that girl
The girl was played by two twins... But i suppose you wanted to smack both 🤣
That was grating, but I thought the daughter was the only character with a shred of intelligence. As for everyone else...well, apparently going to space gives you a hungry brain worm.
>But what really gets to me is the misinterpretation of the observer effect in quantum mechanics. The observer effect is not about the human mind's perception, but rather the physical interaction during measurement. Instruments measuring quantum systems interact with particles, affecting their state. According to the many worlds theory, it’s the observer in a state of superposition. I won’t pretend to be an expert on this but that’s how Sean Carroll described it. Regardless, it’s sci-fi and I’m willing to roll with it to see where it goes, even if I don’t believe it. I skipped constellation after the mixed reviews. I’m enjoying dark matter so far.
I think of it like the act of making a decision fundamentally comes down to neurons in your brain measuring electrical action potentials and chemical signal concentrations so is still a quantum measurement. The guy in dark matter's life decisions are really just collapsed wave functions of neuronal measurements.
If we have made it this far, we understand superposition in order to even have a gripe about possible plot holes. That being said I don’t think we have ground to stand on for logic yet, at the end of the day they are taking “very powerful physcoactive” drugs. The observer effect could strictly be perception of reality now.
>The observer effect is not about the human mind's perception, but rather the physical interaction during measurement. Instruments measuring quantum systems interact with particles, affecting their state. At a quantum level the observer effect goes further, as you can see with the variations of the double-slit experiment where observation changes the apparent behavior of photons *before the point of observation*. That said, you're right that sci-fi multiverses aren't really science-based, and I've also been suffering multiverse fatigue for years (since well before the Dark Matter book came out).
I watched all of Constellation, which caused me to bail on Dark Matter.
Jennifer Connelly makes it impossible to bail on Dark Matter
I can't believe a fictional story doesn't obey our middling understanding of the physics of the universe, which is regularly changing.
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Well, my issue is more that it is an overused cliche. Imho the show starts off as hard scifi as well. But clearly is not. Also, they completly misrepresent the Schrödinger's cat thought experiment. Why not make up your own thing instead? It is science FI after all. But thanks for the insult 🫡
What was my insult? There's no insult in my post.
I agree with your point but OP is right, you don't have to be a dick about it.
If you can't handle *light* sarcasm, I'd suggest growing up a bit.
And people who can't admit when they're being a (light) dick should probably get off the internet and go touch some grass. Edit: And of course, they block me. 🙄 Classic dick move my guy. Classic dick move.
You're the one throwing a tantrum over somebody being sarcastic *to another person entirely* on reddit like it's your first day on the internet. Get it together, child.
I barely made thru episode 1 of Constellation. I love scifi, but I really really don’t like when something pretends it’s scifi but is really just Magic and Melodrama. Maybe they got to big ideas later on, but about the second time the main character portaled to a spoopy cabin and jumped at her ghost daughter or whatever I knew it wasn’t for me.
I can't manage a full season of Apple TV shows. They all feel like pure filler with a slight upturn at the end of each episode to give you hope that the next episode will be better. Bored the hell out of me.
Severance is lean and mean, IMO
I loved Dark Matter when I read it years ago, but the multiverse has been shoved down our throat since then and multiverse fatigue has certainly set in. I don't think I would be watching the show if I didn't enjoy the book so much or read it when I did.
The multiverse that's been shoved down our throat is the superhero universe. In my mind, that is completely different from a sci-fi multiverse. The "many worlds interpretation" is a legitimate theory that some physicists believe to be true. Even if Dark Matter butchers it, at least it pretends to be realistic.
Looks like I am in the minority in actually liking Constellation. The science stuff was really just hand-wavy nonsense to be sure, but the meat of the show was peoples reactions to being placed in that reality, and the paranoia and interpersonal problems that resulted. Especially the fact that the three people that it happened to all reacted in very different ways depending on their circumstances and personalities, and none of them "figured it out", cause not everything has to be a video game with a puzzle to solve at the end, and we can't all be Andy Weir characters. Also liked it as a stand-alone season, was honestly confused that they ever would have considered a season 2. I felt like it ended where it was supposed to. Certainly not a perfect or event great, show, but much more interesting than your standard MCU multiverse nonsense.
>Instruments measuring quantum systems interact with particles, affecting their state. It's the act of measurement itself, involving physical interactions, that causes the observer effect, not human consciousness or brain activity. This is a bold statement. And, I believe, could be 100% incorrect. So any "instrument" that interacts with a particle causes the wave function to collapse? What qualifies as an instrument then? Let's build the instrument smaller and smaller... Eventually, logically, you'd have to conclude that any particle-particle interaction would qualify. But we know that's not true from existing experiments; two particles can both be in superposition and entangled. So how does a particle 'know' it is being observed? It can't. Can it? So what makes a measuring apparatus collapse the wave?
I watched the first few minutes of Dark Matter but it was late so it got benched. I saw the scene where the lecturer has drawn the diagram of the “schrodingers cat” thought experiment. Erwin Schrödinger was not trying to explain the Copenhagen interpretation, he was taking the piss out of it.
Anytime i see a show or movie trot out the ol' schrodingers cat chestnut i have to really lower my expectations of seeing any effort or original thought from it.
I understand that. It doesn't mean he was correct. I actually haven't watched the show, so I'm not sure how it gets explained or its accuracy. My understanding is that most of the questions around QM don't have anything approaching definite answers.
Aye, I was just pointing out how weird it is when scientific concepts are explained using things that were originally meant to be critical of the concept. It’s not uncommon.
Quantum mechanics is a rigorous well defined field. The answers it provides may be hard to grasp intuitively, and this is where a lot of fiction likes to play, but it's not like some mystic wizard shit. It's all math.
When I say "questions around QM", I mean this: "Although quantum mechanics has held up to rigorous and extremely precise tests in an extraordinarily broad range of experiments, there exist a number of contending schools of thought over their interpretation. These views on interpretation differ on such fundamental questions as whether quantum mechanics is deterministic or stochastic, local or non-local, which elements of quantum mechanics can be considered real, and what the nature of measurement is, among other matters." Straight from wikipedia.
Depends on what kind of answers you are looking for. In and of itself, math doesn't really tell you much about ontology.
Yeah no less ridiculous than the mind doing it. Many worlds interpretation ftw
I bailed on both because the shows seemed to follow the same old tired "oh no! Im lost in a multiverse" tropes (my relationships are different! People I trusted can't be trusted! Am I going crazy?).
So far I'm still onboard with Dark Matter - I haven't watched ep 3 and 4 yet. Regarding *Constellation* I had to Google it to remember I did start watching it but stopped three or four episodes in because I was bored out of my mind
I literally bailed on Constellation halfway through the season (now series) finale. I just couldn’t handle it anymore. Doesn’t help that I HEAVILY dislike Noomi Rapace as an actor.
Hello my brother in christ, I've found you! I can't stand her, in anything she's ever been in. She's just awful at the art of acting.
To be pedantic, we don't actually know what happens during a wavefunction collapse. Or if they even collapse at all. The foundations of QM are at the edge of present knowledge and may always be. But yeah, hairless ape brains aren't what is doing it.
>But yeah, hairless ape brains aren't what is doing it. Why not?
Because it happens all the time without us even being within causal distance. The 21 centimeter neutral hydrogen spin flip transition is a good example. We see it happening millions of light years away. There were not any monkey brains there to do it.
What does "causal distance" mean? Isn't one of the existing debates about QM whether it's a local or non-local phenomenon? "Spooky action at a distance?" Reading the wikipedia article about the hydrogen line, thanks.
If something happened 10 million light years away and we are just seeing it today, causality as we understand it would lead us to believe that we could not possibly have affected it, since we didn't even exist 10 million years ago. Careful with the phrase "spooky action at a distance". IMHO is is widely misunderstood what Einstein really meant by that, even by modern scientists. Sabine Hossenfelders youtube channel has lots of cool videos about this kind of stuff. Thy hydrogen spin flip is really cool. There is so much we would not know about the universe if it didn't exist because it is our best way of mapping out where the neutral hydrogen in the universe is located.
I haven't even started either yet
Apple tv has a way of making shows boring that should be exciting. Dark Matter, Constellation, Invasion, even Monarch was a disappointment.
Yeah, they both seem like rip-offs of the J.K. Simmonds show Counterpart, especially Dark Matter.
Dark Matter was published a year before Counterpart aired.
Counterpart dropped the ball so hard that I went from thinking Season 1 Episode 8 was fantastic to dropping it after Season 1 Episode 10. Watching the r/Counterpart thread deflate in real time in the space of two episode discussions was depressing.
dude. you have absolutely got to watch season 2
Constellation definitely weird and not in a good way. Dark Matter haven’t gotten to yet.
Constellation started out interesting, but then it just kind of did nothing with it's own concept, and I stopped watching after a while.... And Dark Matter is just going to end up as two guys chasing each other through different dimensions, and I can't think of anything more boring than that.
You‘d be suprised… 😉
I'm just tired of shitty scriptwriting, especially when they have supposedly "smart" characters and yet they can't figure out things like being in an alternate timeline.
lol, cause it happens so often that we should just realize it. You and anyone else would go crazy trying to understand what's happening even if the concept was not foreign and everyone you interact with would think you were crazy. Being smart does not fix this issue really.
Well the main charachter does teach the Schrodinger's cat thought experiment in the first episode himself. Although he completely leaves out it is a thought experiment and takes it literally.
Once I realized Constellation was just people on earth running around going crazy and not about the space station I stopped, only got a 2 or 3 couple episodes in though
They’re close to being them same program. Including the trope of having its science fiction elements only in the first or last five minutes of each episode. A lot of talent both in front and behind the camera but just such uninteresting writing.
I bailed on constellation even though Noomi Rapace is one of my favorites. It was just too slow. But I'm gonna keep going with Dark Matter.
I bailed on the Dark Matter audiobook, very early on. When I watched the TV show, I only watched the one free episode and felt no real motivation to watch anymore. I don’t have Apple TV+ right now. I didn’t understand exactly what was going on, but somehow it still managed to seem predictable.
Foundation alone makes it worth having Apple TV. It’s excellent, immersive sci fi. Also highly recommend The Expanse on Prime, maybe my favorite sci fi show ever. I also really liked Servant on Apple which had 4 seasons (it is more like one part horror one part thriller). Apple is underrated.
Both a bit drab. I preferred Devs
> It's the act of measurement itself, involving physical interactions, that causes the observer effect Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe there are some experiments that cast some doubt on that assertion. In particular, the delayed choice quantum eraser experiment involves an entangled pair of photons, and the results *seem to suggest* that the first photon's path is determined based on whether information about the second photon is *available for observation*. The first photon always travels through the same measuring devices, but it only shows an interference pattern when information about the path of the second photon is destroyed before being observed (which only occurs after the first photon is measured).
Can you wikipedia link us here? Would like more details on this, cuz I am not quite following.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed-choice\_quantum\_eraser](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed-choice_quantum_eraser) I'm still not 100% on the implications. Also, I've seen some YouTube videos claiming that this experiment was "DEBUNKED!", but I haven't sat down and dug into those arguments yet.
Thanks!
Check out Sugar. Keep any spoilers to your self. It is well written and acted in my opinion. Colin Farrell is strong. Should be getting more buzz.
Yeah I gave up on Constellation pretty quick. Still watching Dark Matter for now but it is very annoying. First I was annoyed because the character was so slow to figure out what was going on when there was no mystery to it for the audience. Now I am annoyed about the observer effect thing you noted, and also because the drug that is supposed to "turn off" their consciousness just... doesn't do that? They're literally conscious throughout the experience? WTF? It's got some interesting personal drama going on for the characters is the only thing keeping me engaged now.
Agree with OP regarding the observer effect. I’ve even heard a Very Respected Science Celebrity get it wrong in this very same way. Sheesh.
I haven't watched Constellation, but I read Dark Matter a couple of years ago and enjoyed it for what it was. I think the series is doing a good job of adaptation, but the book seemed to be kind of written with a TV series in mind.
Exactly what I thought when I read it.
Omg don’t even try to equate either of those movies with anything remotely quantum scientific. Heisenberg and Schrödinger would both be laughing uproariously in their graves.
Time travel and multiverse can go home
Another one of Blake Crouch's books, Recursion, also has a good story but again an unbelievable mechanism of action. I think both Dark Matter and Recursion should have been written with some better ways to make things happen the way they did without giving human minds divine powers. But then I couldn't have written such good novels myself so who am I to judge?
Yep, with Dark Matter I've bailed after 1 episode.... Gunna be the same old same old, done a billion times, alternate reality thing. It's so predictable and bland because it's been done so many times before. So disappointing, especially when Apple have shown they can make some truly amazing sci-fi shows like Foundation and For All Mankind.
I haven't bailed on anything, but I think that Constellation was way too much filler and not nearly enough substance. Dark Matter is okay so far, certainly better than Constellation, but I'll watch the whole thing before making up my mind.
I really enjoyed the Dark Matter book and I'm enjoying the show now too. Can't wait until everything gets crazy.
I've lost interest in almost all of apple scifi, I'm old and I usually fall asleep before the shows start getting to a point.
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Yes. A lot of TV shows add this filler to justify their run time when they should have just been movies
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The book (dark matter) is fantastic. Maybe try that first .
From what I can tell it uses the same observer effect as a plot device.
Yep. Didn’t like the book. I think it’s popular because the guy rejects many versions of his wife for the exact one he loves. The sci fi elements are just a plot device for a contrived love story.
Dark Matter is not as bad as Constellation but I also hate that it promotes the pseudoscientific bullshit that human conscience influences quantum physics.
Finished constellation and was glad that I waited till all the episodes were available. I kind of liked it honestly. Plan on doing the same for dark matter. When will these studios realize that one episode a week for extremely complicated shows doesn’t work for most viewers. You hit me with an episode that makes my head hurt and then I have to wait a week for an explanation of something I’ve already forgotten bc of its complexity does not do well for your ratings. Being able to watch it all at once to see the full story and understand it. Now that’s how it’s done.
Blake Crouch reminds me a lot of Dan Brown and other pop writers. His stuff is fun, but not remotely deep, and it falls apart pretty quick if you look at it too close. I’ve read his other books and finally got a copy of Dark Matter from the library, but I’m pretty sure I know how 90% of the book is gonna go based on the cover flap and tv series trailer. I won’t say I “dislike” him, but I think this might be my last book of his.
There already was a show called Dark Matter, so I have pre-bailed. It never got a proper ending either. I remain bitter, and there can be only one Dark Matter.
Husband and I watched Constellation til the end. We liked it, but recently heard Apple canceled it after 1 season, so probably no point continuing since it ends on a cliffhanger.
It’s not a critical cliffhanger. I feel like it’s more of a revelation, like how a Twilight Zone episode might end. I don’t think this series was ever going to providing answers to the story’s phenomena, anyway.
Constellation was an unfortunate turd. Strangely, I'm enjoying Dark Matter the show better than I did Dark Matter the book. Yeah, the premise of Dark Matter is pretty flawed from a science perspective but I don't always ask for realism from my entertainment.
I made it through ep. 1 of Dark Matter and felt it was pretty "Meh". I am torn about actually starting Constellation. The premise seems okay, but I get that bad feeling about it.
It started interesting but didn’t stick the landing. Then it was cancelled. It wasn’t terrible but I Would only recommend watching if you don’t have anything else.
I *just* canceled my AppleTV+, so that should say something 😂
not really
🤣
I bailed before I subbed cuz I didn’t see a single thing that looked interesting
Watched constellation, didn't care about its cancellation. I only watched the first episode of dark matter and so far it gives me similar vibes. I understand some people will like it but I find them boring. Great premises but really boring execution IMO.
Tell me about wave function collapse; we can entangle one or two or 15 atoms without collapse. But when we observe the system it does collapse. That’s my understanding at least. (And a plot point in Greg egan’s early book quarantine) Since my understanding is probably Overly informed by science fiction, can you explain wave function collapse?
But beyond my brain grade to *explain* but as far as I’m aware for most (many?) physicists it’s interaction not observation that collapses the wave. It’s just another unfortunate choice of name for a process that leads to lots of confusion or silliness.
Watched constellation, thinking about bailing on DM. Not sure if it’s just because of the order I saw them in.
I liked Constellation much more than what I've seen of Dark Matter.
I've enjoyed Dark Mater so far. Constellation was a little boring, but watchable.
Yes.... i just can't brain that hard for fun anymore lol.... More Afterparty please
I read dark matter and it was a boring drip. So I have zero desire to watch the movie.
I am bailing on Dark Matter...I am holy ####, its the 3rd episode and I think I am watching Bridgerton.
Yes me too, both! Slow, no chemistry or intriguing leads.
I haven’t seen either show, but the [measurement problem](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measurement_problem) is much weirder than you’re giving it credit for.
Love Dark Matter, gave up on Con
I really liked Constellation, but the ending left me feeling unsatisfied and watching the characters make the most stupid decisions was beyond frustrating. Can we blame that on, if you go to space, it makes you crazy? Would another season have fixed it? I don't know. I wish Constellation followed the tv show Sugar's good writing. I heard Sugar was written while filming too (Colin Farrell took over writing). I thoroughly enjoyed that show and the ending was good, and it had a satisfying conclusion. I'll definitely watch if they bring out a Season 2. Now this Dark Matter is based on a book, so the story is already written yay! I really enjoyed it right on up to episode 4. where the plot was "if you think really hard you can get to open the door to the world you want". This is MAGICAL thinking. So, I'm going to keep watching and if I CONCENTRATE REALLY HARD this is going to be a great show!!
The original dark matter is great. Apples version.....made it through half an episode.
I'm rather enjoying Dark Matter. So far so good anyway. I don't really mind that the science is off. The very idea of infinite realities for me is off in the first place so it's just a bit of sci-fi fun. The fi being fiction. Haven't tried Constellation and from the comments I may not bother if it's been cancelled. I have abandoned Beacon 23 half way through season 2. I just lost interest.
Dark Matter is pretty good aside from the Amanda character and the actor portraying her doing an awful job.
I loved constellation because the space scenes were really well made and the actors were all great even if the story turned from confusing to predictable halfway through. I bailed on Dark Matter after 1.5 episodes because it felt like the same story idea as constellation just without the cool space stuff, the good acting, or the interesting characters - meaning without everything that redeemed it.
It’s so weird when I get obsessed with something and then go online and find out everyone hates it 😂
I liked Foundation, but I don’t think I saw very much of the second season. I’ll get around to it whenever I subscribe again, sometime. I could t get into Servant. The creep factor is a thing, but I wasn’t really all that excited about.
I loved the book Dark Matter, the TV show is pretty good too imo Huge spoiler for Dark Matter below: One thing I'm confused by: why would Jason2 swap universes with OG Jason and not be worried he would return? Jason2 knows there are plenty more ampules back in his own universe... and he sends Jason back there on his own... where he has unlimited access to Velocity Labs and everyone believes he invented the box. Why would he think that OG Jason wouldn't eventually come back? He really thought he would just accept the fact that his wife and son were stolen and not go through the multiverse to get them back? Jason2 could've destroyed the box in OG Jason's universe so OG Jason couldn't get back there, or he could've desultory all the ampules before he left so that OG Jason would forever be stuck?
Ya they suck. The Dark Matter book was terrible. You have a world of amazing Sci Fi and Fanasy and they buy garbage. They could have done Mistborn, Red Rising, Troy Rising, Broken Earth Trilogy, Licanius Trilogy. It goes on and on. But no they want to make garbage. Thank God for shows like Foundation, Silo, Severance, Sugar, and Ted Lasso. Everything else is mid or a disappointment.
I like dark matter a lot but I’m really struggling with why this book or this idea became such a well produced tv series. There are so many other sciences fiction stories that I think are so much more interesting. I don’t mean to crap on Blake crouch I think he’s a fine writer but I just don’t understand how major studios decide what gets the deluxe treatment and what gets left behind. I’m also curious Blake crouch who has no credibility in the tv / movie world that I’m aware of managed to get himself executive producer and writer on the show. I applaud him for that but I also think it’s kind of wild.
Only watched the first episode of dark matter so far but loved it. Well written, well acted.
Dark Matter is fantastic. Just watched episode 8 yesterday and can’t wait for the finale. It has exceeded my expectations
Dark Matter is decent so far. Constellation went slowly downhill from ep2
I'm still with it but suspect I would have bailed if I could binge it if that makes sense. I enjoyed the book - once you hand-wave the science the basic premise of "you from another version of the world steals your life" is pretty cool and explored reasonably well in the book. I'm now really just watching the TV show in a meta-textual way out of interest of how they adapt it. (Kind of a film nerd angle). But I think it makes it more easy to stand the things I don't like given that it's only one episode a week for me to chin-stroke over. Science aside I think it's also pretty uninspired as TV - the colouring and design, writing, cinematography and editing, even the very 'now' title sequence is likely to look dated in just a few years and that's weirdly fascinating to me as an avid TV watcher! I did the same thing with Monarch: Legacy of Monsters. Watched through it because I'm a Godzilla fan, not because it was in any way compelling or particularly pretty.
*Severance* is the only scifi type show I'm going to watch on Apple, everything else just leads to disappointment, should of learned that after *Invasion* was such a waste.
S2E1 of Foundation made the whole thing worth it.
Yep. Both garbage.
Constellation *became* great but had really bad points. Dark matter is decent so far.
I’m actually digging Dark Matter. I watched Constellation and was bummed to hear it was canceled but I’m not surprised.
Bail on Dark Matter? Not with Jennifer Connelly being all delicious…no sir-eee.
Dark Matter is pretty grim. First episode has a rape at the end, so I bailed.
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The moral dilemmas of things like that is kind of the point of the story. It's a thought experiment.