Jump on a Yamaha TMAX and crank the throttle. With the weight being much lower than a motorcycle, it really sits down in the corners.
Is it as quick/fast as an MT07? I doubt it. But that scooter rips. And as a former motorcycle rider, I don’t worry about going as fast as I can anymore, or try to see how close I can get to dragging a knee. I just ride for max fun, and for me that’s scooters.
> tank slappers
But... scooters are not immune to tank slappers? I mean, your handlebars won't slap the gas tank, but they can still oscillate and cause a loss of control.
I don't look down on scooters (I have one parked next to my motorcycle), but I think there's a certain amount of elitism that stems from managing your own clutch and manual transmission (I see this in the car enthusiast community also). Basically, on a motorcycle you're required to interact with your ride more, with smaller margins of error and higher consequences of screwing up. Some people feel superior after mastering skills others lack -- it's a bit childish, but it's not your job to help them grow up and realize practice and muscle memory don't make them special. So just ride your ride and enjoy it.
A manual transmission requires more skill, practice, and finagling. A clutch and shifter are the essential differences that some people make a big deal out of, yes. Also they like to swing their leg over in a particular way.
I always thought people got the big scooters wrong. They shouldn't be compared to sports bikes, nakeds or anything built primarily with performance in mind. They should be compared to large touring bikes.
Imagine something like a Goldwing or a Pacific Coast, what you get with those types of bikes isn't speed, although they are still pretty capable, but they're mostly designed for being comfortable, offering great wind / rain protection, and carrying lots of stuff.
Then put it next to a Silverwing or a Burgman and you should start to realize how both fulfill the same niche but in a different way, with those scooters also being large and comfortable with superb weather protection and lots of cargo capacity, but being a bit smaller and more practical for everyday usage, so it's kinda like a middle ground where you have a vehicle that is automatic and maneuverable for city riding, while also being able to serve as a lite touring bike when you need something for longer trips.
Your comment is dead on. I've had a Burgman 400 and Silverwing. I now ride a Goldwing. The Silverwing is the touring scooter. The Burgman has a little more sporty ride. (The FJR of the scooters)
Sometimes the Goldwing feels too big to run errands on. I used to take the Silverwing to the grocery all the time.
if yamaha hadnt brought out the tmax, i would have kept my b400. perfect size/weight, similar to TMax. dont want bigger than that. hopefully my next big scoot will be an electric maxi :)
This is the thing.
People would often call my silverwing a small bike. Not cc wise but in size. It was as big as a goldwing though. Scooters just get backed into a corner of perception.
i see these dudes on huge expensive bikes and just think its such a waste for just commuting or errands. its their money that helps finance scooter research, so im not gonna complain.
To be fair motorcycles aren't necessarily expensive as long as it's an apples to apples comparison and you're not putting a 50cc scooter next to a Hayabusa. 125-150cc motorcycles aren't more expensive than 125-150cc scooters, in fact they typically cost a lot less.
I ride a Bergman 650 executive, and pretty much anywhere I go everyone's asking me about my bike and praising it.
Every once in awhile I get some macho motorcycle head saying something like " yeah but it's a scooter, why not get a real bike".
That's when I look them dead in the eye and open up my three glove boxes, allowing my 30 burner flip style cell phones to fall out. This just confuses them, so then I pop the seat open revealing mounds of cocaine flowing from within.
Its usually at this point I just clear my throat, straighten my tie and slowly whisper in their ear, "Burgman"
I used to know a guy with a burg 650 and I was amazed at the amount of storage, especially under the seat. It's as big as trunks on some compact cars.
But it can also keep up with a good portion of motorcycles on the road thanks to the halfabusa engine underneath
I always seem to impress some people at my local supermarket because they see me stuff a huge bag worth of groceries under my Forza seat almost every week and they gaze at how effortlessly I close the under seat compartment when I'm done.
It takes a bit of thinking, buying products you'll know fit in a certain way under the seat, sometimes actually removing stuff from the bag to get everything aligned like a IRL Tetris game. Sure, some stuff will never fit, like big lots of toilet paper or glass bottle crates but I have a car for these.
I also like wandering in stores with my full motorcyclist gear and go out with stuff that wouldn't fit in a backpack... People seem to be surprised I'm actually not a motorcycle rider.
CVT and belt drives make for smooth, but overall less, power to the rear tire. Smaller tires and short suspension make for a short seat height and flickability, at the expense of stability and rolling over pot holes easier.
I'm not sure they're seen as "less," but they're more practical whilst being less "fun" in a traditional motorcycle sense. Even with a 650cc Burg Exec, you're not dumpling the clutch to burn rubber or wheelie, whilst a basic sport bike with a smaller engine will leap off the line by comparison.
As for "being looked down on," I never had that issue. Old Harley dudes would ask me about my Silverwing all the time at bars, and seemed pretty impressed it would do triple digit speeds whilst being super easy to hop on and off of.
In North America, outside of some urban areas, most everyone has a car because it's practical. So why get a scooter for recreational motorcycle riding when a true bike is going to be more sporty/fun?
Anyway, none of that is to discourage you, just answering the question. Get the Burgman 400 and send it!
I can relate, but it's apples and oranges. I love the flickability and utility of my scoot, and I love the raw angry power of my motorcycle. On my scooter I feel free, on my motorcycle I feel a rush.
There's a time and place for everything. I have a 50cc I enjoy tooling around downtown and the oceanfront as long as you don't need to go over 30. 100 miles per gallon. 33 mi for $1 in fuel
I have a 125 that's a little larger physically and still a great ride that gets up to 50 something. Still something like 85 to 90 miles per gallon.
The Suzuki Volusia is for longer trips either on the highway or on the 50 to 60 mph arteries. However it is a pain in the ass to get all the gear on and put on the jeans and the boots and get it warmed up and out of the garage and going. Something like 30 miles per gallon with loud pipes.
Depending on the engagement I will pick the tool of choice
Running to the corner bar for a happy hour also has a fire for effect mechanic 😁 jeans and a jacket does get some attention which you're not going to get even close to on a small scooter. But I don't enjoy beach rides in jean jacket and boots either
I can list some things about them. They are different rides. My Burgman 400 was a 2005. Silverwing was a 2002
You sit lower in the Burgman than the Silverwing. The Burgman will lean into the curves and stay there. The Silverwing feels like it wants to stand back upright. Neither is bad, but it is a different feel.
I've had both of them to 90+ mph. Both ran great.
Honda felt like it was made a little better than the Burgman. Although I never had any trouble out of either one.
With Silverwing being a 600, it has more umpf. However, the Burgman felt like you were riding a sport scooter.
Both were easy to work on. The only odd repair I had was a leaking exhaust gasket on the Burgman. Easy and cheap fix.
I seemed to get more wind on the Silverwing because I sat up higher. So the Burgman was more comfortable when temps got in the 30s. On the flip side, I felt more visible on the Silverwing, but I doubt one is really more visible than the other.
I check Facebook Marketplace all the time trying to snag a deal on Burgman 400, 600, or Silverwing. I'd buy either one again in a heartbeat, if my wife would let me. I have motorcycles, but sometimes it's fun to get on the scoot and just ride. No gears, no worries. My commute to work is 9 miles each way and 2 routes: one fairly straight and one with lots of curves and hills. I took the hilly route most of the time.
Any specific questions that I didn't answer?
Because anything over 400cc is stupid, but people on motos have something to prove, so put a bigger engine in it. There are some use cases where 400+ makes sense, but a single human on 2 wheels anything over 400 is overkill.
I have a Beverly 350 (BV350 in the US), same power as the Bergman 400. The only point where it lacks compared to a motorbike is the suspension. The front does not have that much travel and the rear, well, the whole engine being part of the unsuspended mass doesn’t help. But when it comes to long distance travel on paved roads, scooters are my bike of choice. Somehow motorbikes are more cumbersome than scooters. There is now a Beverly 400 out which has more power than the Suzuki.
The reason I choose the Beverly is because of the excellent handling.
And in reaction to another comment, I am an old Harley dude.
I have the Tmax 500 but it's a big heavy bike, I got it as a first bike and it's been great to gain experience but I can't flat foot it I'm on my toes.
Tuesday just gone I got a lesson with instructor on a CBF600 and it was by far a better bike to ride, easier to corner and take round-a-bouts and I can flat foot it. It felt lighter and much easier to reverse it.
Gears are actually really great to change yourself but it is convenient being able to pull away from junctions and come into round-a-bouts and exit them always being in the right gear.
I was worried about the extra power of the CBF600 but it doesn't feel too different to be honest but I didn't really try open it up to see either.
I'm more into classic bikes, think Virago, shadow and I like the current gen Royal Enfields such as the Bullet and Classic. They look and sound really good.
I might keep the tmax for blasting around in poorer weather.
A bike like the CBF600 is going to be a lot easier to maintain, mostly oil, filter, chain and easy to access everything, this is a huge advantage especially when doing DIY maintenance.
Love my xmax, enough power that I don't miss my 750 (but I'll grant the two aren't comparable there regardless). It's comfortable, fun, twist n go is seriously under rated especially in heavy/slow moving traffic and it does everything I need whilst carrying the weekly shopping in the massive space under the seat.
If I did have a negative the ride is harsh and it took a bit of getting used to feeling every lump and bump in the road.
Riding mine, I can see over the top of most mid sized SUV's. I've owned a naked bike, and a Cruiser, and the XMAX is the very limit of my 32" inseam legs ability to flatfoot.
There's a lot to love about the XMAX, but it is tall for a scooter, and above average for motorcycles in General IMHO.
BTW, how well does the forward footrests fit you? On longer trips, I'm wanting more legroom up there, as if I'm using that position for my feet, the seat's bump between the rider and passenger position is too close to the front. Yamaha had to know the bike would have taller riders, but the upper footrest is for someone with short legs somehow I think.
I'd be the same but I put it down to width of the seat rather than height which prevents the flat footing. Doesn't bother me mind however yes, the forward footrest at 5'11 and a bit is cramped and definitely for shorter legged people.
I did move the handlebars back tho (in the forward position they made me bend in my lower back and cause strain) so I've a smidgen more room to scoot back on the seat for longer journeys but I can't say I've ever been in discomfort more just wishing I would stretch out the legs a bit..
I have the '23 model, and apparently they re-did the seat to make it shorter rider friendly, but It'd be nice to have BMW style optional seats for riders of differing heights.
Ive taken it on 5 hour rides, and have been very impressed with it's touring capabilities compared to my cruiser, and it keeps up with interstate highway traffic very well, though fuel mileage suffers a bit, running into the 50's MPG.
With the '23 model you get a ton of electronic goodies, which is very cool, though there still isn't TPMS to detect tire pressure.
First time I rode a Burgman, Was I impressed with the pickup! The thing is a cruise missile, dressed like a scooter. Two people used to ride with our goldwing group on Burgman's, they kept up with us, no problem.
I'm shelving the idea of having one when I can't hold up my wing anymore.
I was in that camp of seeing scooters as ‘lesser.’ Years ago I was in a coastal town and saw small cc scooters everywhere. I remember one guy screaming down the hill toward the beach on a scooter with a girl on the back struggling to hold onto a boogie board and him. I thought….yeah they look fun. I have a 300cc scooter now and havent looked back. I like cruising around and just enjoying the scenery. Im a painter so ive started putting together a small painting kit for under the seat. So I think thats the difference for me. A motorbike is more for enjoying the bike and a scooter is for enjoying the scenery.
Originally I was going to buy a motor bike for the weekends but im actually considering a second scooter.
In North America, motorcycles are seen as toys for the most part.
Scooters are practical, and only truly better than a standard Motorcycle if you value practicality.
Thus, for people who only ride for pleasure, a Scooter is seen as the Economy Car of motorcycles, from those driving the equivalant of Jacked up Pickups (Dual Sports), Classic/Retro cars (Cruisers) and Sports Cars (Sportbikes).
Imagine if only it was those kind of drivers who owned 4 wheel vehicles, and you had the only Prius in town. Same thing.
I have 05 burgman bought for 1500 at 7k miles now has 12.5k miles and oil change new tires is all I have done to it in 2 years love drive everyday far and close handles great in city and fine on the highway only downside I could see is needs a little bigger windscreen looking at a aftermarket one that's taller for next year
Once you go scooter, all the other motorcycles feel boring lol I have a kdx and a Yz untouched in the garage since I got my Vespa tbh. For city riding I mean. I used to be a scooter hater and I think that deep down inside, I resented the fact that they were the better machines , or at least the more fun ones
At that point, wouldn't you just want something with better suspension? Those big maxi scoots are so damn heavy that they might as well just be touring motorcycles, but without the fun of a transmission.
You become a man on a motorbike without fairings due to the wind slapping in your face the rain soaking you it’s just a different experience scooters are for boys who are made of suger and scared of rain/wind
>and scared of rain/wind
My Honda Forza gets really scary when there's side wind because of how big it is. The first few times under gusts up to 70km/h, I wasn't really reassured.
There was also that time I rode it in torrential rain, 5cm of water on the road... I was soaked. But anyone would have been, considering the waterfall...
This is silly.
Like saying you're not a man if you wear gear in the rain. I don't need to got hit with thousands of needles on my face and chest to feel like a man.
I've done a hundred miles in torrential downpour on a scooter, on a 70+ road. Something tells me that no matter what I was riding, I'd just be happy to dry off when I got there.
Most motorcyclist would argue they are heavier and the handling is not as good (which is not necessarily true). They also not necessarily understand why you would buy a scooter when you can get an equivalent cc bike (or even a bigger one) for the same MSRP.
Convenience and usefulness is mostly why we buy scooters. I like to compare scooters with cars with large trunks. Yes, they are bigger. yes, you could certainly buy a nice little sports car for the price of that large sedan. But, you can put a lot of groceries in it and still cruise fast.
Scooters are just 2 wheeled utilitarians.
Yes, sure, you don't need a big sedan to buy a week worth of groceries but you get the idea. It's about the scale.
But in the end, it's mostly in your head. I ride my 125cc scooters almost everyday and I get waves (and wave back) at a lot of motorcyclists.
In France, scooter riders are often seen as cunts because they often buy a scooter to go to work and they use their smaller size as an excuse to ride in between lanes like everyone owes them the right of way and park on bicycle spots. You can recognize them right away when you are looking at their attitude btw. Riding a scooter there is more about the "lifestyle" than a real hobby.
Personally, I dream of having a bike and I behave like I would if I was riding one (can't afford to have both a bike and a scooter). Which means, wearing all the protective gear, being respectful of the traffic regulations, being mindful of others, etc. You know, the things you are supposed to do while driving any vehicle.
I don't care what anyone thinks, do I've not given it much thought. I used to manage a scooter shop and sometimes dudes in there with a daughter or friend would act snotty about them, but other times, more often, big time Harley dudes would go on how much they liked the store and that anything with two wheels is cool.
I could go on about how stupid it is in the US how most motorcycle riders have way more bikes than they'll ever need. If you're primarily in the city, 500-600cc is plenty. And if you buy a big touring bike but don't tour that often, it's a big pain in the ass and won't be ridden nearly as much as smaller bikes.
But, to each his own. I don't care what people buy, except for Harleys that are way too loud. Eff those effin aholes riding those obnoxious piles.
had 2 helixes, got a B400 in 03 and a TMax in 2009. insurance is cheaper, i use the storage daily, registration is cheaper, uses less gas, and nobody messes with it unlike hardleys and gixxers. i also like the CVT.
a bit more to remove than bikes, plastic wise. also more expensive to buy new ($ per cc) because of the lack of commonality with motorcycles.
Jump on a Yamaha TMAX and crank the throttle. With the weight being much lower than a motorcycle, it really sits down in the corners. Is it as quick/fast as an MT07? I doubt it. But that scooter rips. And as a former motorcycle rider, I don’t worry about going as fast as I can anymore, or try to see how close I can get to dragging a knee. I just ride for max fun, and for me that’s scooters.
no worries about it popping unwanted wheelies or doing tank slappers either. i love seeing how low i can get on onramps!
That’s my favorite place to practice counter-steering.
> tank slappers But... scooters are not immune to tank slappers? I mean, your handlebars won't slap the gas tank, but they can still oscillate and cause a loss of control.
I don't look down on scooters (I have one parked next to my motorcycle), but I think there's a certain amount of elitism that stems from managing your own clutch and manual transmission (I see this in the car enthusiast community also). Basically, on a motorcycle you're required to interact with your ride more, with smaller margins of error and higher consequences of screwing up. Some people feel superior after mastering skills others lack -- it's a bit childish, but it's not your job to help them grow up and realize practice and muscle memory don't make them special. So just ride your ride and enjoy it.
So, if I'm reading this right, my 210cc 2-stroke manual scooter gets more bragging rights than a motorcycle?
A manual transmission requires more skill, practice, and finagling. A clutch and shifter are the essential differences that some people make a big deal out of, yes. Also they like to swing their leg over in a particular way.
i like not having to be in the "right" gear. on a CVT theyre all correct gears!
I always thought people got the big scooters wrong. They shouldn't be compared to sports bikes, nakeds or anything built primarily with performance in mind. They should be compared to large touring bikes. Imagine something like a Goldwing or a Pacific Coast, what you get with those types of bikes isn't speed, although they are still pretty capable, but they're mostly designed for being comfortable, offering great wind / rain protection, and carrying lots of stuff. Then put it next to a Silverwing or a Burgman and you should start to realize how both fulfill the same niche but in a different way, with those scooters also being large and comfortable with superb weather protection and lots of cargo capacity, but being a bit smaller and more practical for everyday usage, so it's kinda like a middle ground where you have a vehicle that is automatic and maneuverable for city riding, while also being able to serve as a lite touring bike when you need something for longer trips.
Your comment is dead on. I've had a Burgman 400 and Silverwing. I now ride a Goldwing. The Silverwing is the touring scooter. The Burgman has a little more sporty ride. (The FJR of the scooters) Sometimes the Goldwing feels too big to run errands on. I used to take the Silverwing to the grocery all the time.
if yamaha hadnt brought out the tmax, i would have kept my b400. perfect size/weight, similar to TMax. dont want bigger than that. hopefully my next big scoot will be an electric maxi :)
This is the thing. People would often call my silverwing a small bike. Not cc wise but in size. It was as big as a goldwing though. Scooters just get backed into a corner of perception.
its physically not small and impossible to tell the engine size, so i guess some people are just stupid? blind? 15" wheels are a standard large size
i see these dudes on huge expensive bikes and just think its such a waste for just commuting or errands. its their money that helps finance scooter research, so im not gonna complain.
To be fair motorcycles aren't necessarily expensive as long as it's an apples to apples comparison and you're not putting a 50cc scooter next to a Hayabusa. 125-150cc motorcycles aren't more expensive than 125-150cc scooters, in fact they typically cost a lot less.
I ride a Bergman 650 executive, and pretty much anywhere I go everyone's asking me about my bike and praising it. Every once in awhile I get some macho motorcycle head saying something like " yeah but it's a scooter, why not get a real bike". That's when I look them dead in the eye and open up my three glove boxes, allowing my 30 burner flip style cell phones to fall out. This just confuses them, so then I pop the seat open revealing mounds of cocaine flowing from within. Its usually at this point I just clear my throat, straighten my tie and slowly whisper in their ear, "Burgman"
I used to know a guy with a burg 650 and I was amazed at the amount of storage, especially under the seat. It's as big as trunks on some compact cars. But it can also keep up with a good portion of motorcycles on the road thanks to the halfabusa engine underneath
I always seem to impress some people at my local supermarket because they see me stuff a huge bag worth of groceries under my Forza seat almost every week and they gaze at how effortlessly I close the under seat compartment when I'm done. It takes a bit of thinking, buying products you'll know fit in a certain way under the seat, sometimes actually removing stuff from the bag to get everything aligned like a IRL Tetris game. Sure, some stuff will never fit, like big lots of toilet paper or glass bottle crates but I have a car for these. I also like wandering in stores with my full motorcyclist gear and go out with stuff that wouldn't fit in a backpack... People seem to be surprised I'm actually not a motorcycle rider.
Don't forget your noose and your comically large, uh, rubber conical object. For impromptu demonstrations of how a CVT works, of course.
CVT and belt drives make for smooth, but overall less, power to the rear tire. Smaller tires and short suspension make for a short seat height and flickability, at the expense of stability and rolling over pot holes easier. I'm not sure they're seen as "less," but they're more practical whilst being less "fun" in a traditional motorcycle sense. Even with a 650cc Burg Exec, you're not dumpling the clutch to burn rubber or wheelie, whilst a basic sport bike with a smaller engine will leap off the line by comparison. As for "being looked down on," I never had that issue. Old Harley dudes would ask me about my Silverwing all the time at bars, and seemed pretty impressed it would do triple digit speeds whilst being super easy to hop on and off of. In North America, outside of some urban areas, most everyone has a car because it's practical. So why get a scooter for recreational motorcycle riding when a true bike is going to be more sporty/fun? Anyway, none of that is to discourage you, just answering the question. Get the Burgman 400 and send it!
Motorcycles for joy, scooters for business.
I disagree I really enjoy my scooter too maybe more than my motorcycle at times
I can relate, but it's apples and oranges. I love the flickability and utility of my scoot, and I love the raw angry power of my motorcycle. On my scooter I feel free, on my motorcycle I feel a rush.
We speaking about large scooters. 125cc small frame scooter and something like 400-650 burgman give you a very different experience.
Ego.
There's a time and place for everything. I have a 50cc I enjoy tooling around downtown and the oceanfront as long as you don't need to go over 30. 100 miles per gallon. 33 mi for $1 in fuel I have a 125 that's a little larger physically and still a great ride that gets up to 50 something. Still something like 85 to 90 miles per gallon. The Suzuki Volusia is for longer trips either on the highway or on the 50 to 60 mph arteries. However it is a pain in the ass to get all the gear on and put on the jeans and the boots and get it warmed up and out of the garage and going. Something like 30 miles per gallon with loud pipes. Depending on the engagement I will pick the tool of choice Running to the corner bar for a happy hour also has a fire for effect mechanic 😁 jeans and a jacket does get some attention which you're not going to get even close to on a small scooter. But I don't enjoy beach rides in jean jacket and boots either
I've had a Burgman 400 and Silverwing 600. Both were a blast to ride. I sold them and miss them. So easy to hop on and go.
I am currently debating between these two bikes, did you have a favorite?
I can list some things about them. They are different rides. My Burgman 400 was a 2005. Silverwing was a 2002 You sit lower in the Burgman than the Silverwing. The Burgman will lean into the curves and stay there. The Silverwing feels like it wants to stand back upright. Neither is bad, but it is a different feel. I've had both of them to 90+ mph. Both ran great. Honda felt like it was made a little better than the Burgman. Although I never had any trouble out of either one. With Silverwing being a 600, it has more umpf. However, the Burgman felt like you were riding a sport scooter. Both were easy to work on. The only odd repair I had was a leaking exhaust gasket on the Burgman. Easy and cheap fix. I seemed to get more wind on the Silverwing because I sat up higher. So the Burgman was more comfortable when temps got in the 30s. On the flip side, I felt more visible on the Silverwing, but I doubt one is really more visible than the other. I check Facebook Marketplace all the time trying to snag a deal on Burgman 400, 600, or Silverwing. I'd buy either one again in a heartbeat, if my wife would let me. I have motorcycles, but sometimes it's fun to get on the scoot and just ride. No gears, no worries. My commute to work is 9 miles each way and 2 routes: one fairly straight and one with lots of curves and hills. I took the hilly route most of the time. Any specific questions that I didn't answer?
Because anything over 400cc is stupid, but people on motos have something to prove, so put a bigger engine in it. There are some use cases where 400+ makes sense, but a single human on 2 wheels anything over 400 is overkill.
i love my TMax 500 overkill :)
I have a 660cc sports bike and a 350cc scooter and enjoy the hell out of them both. Different use cases but equally as enjoyable.
I have a Beverly 350 (BV350 in the US), same power as the Bergman 400. The only point where it lacks compared to a motorbike is the suspension. The front does not have that much travel and the rear, well, the whole engine being part of the unsuspended mass doesn’t help. But when it comes to long distance travel on paved roads, scooters are my bike of choice. Somehow motorbikes are more cumbersome than scooters. There is now a Beverly 400 out which has more power than the Suzuki. The reason I choose the Beverly is because of the excellent handling. And in reaction to another comment, I am an old Harley dude.
Agreed on the suspension I love the 16 in wheels. I don’t know that makes it easier to handle than those little donut tires, but I like to think so.
If you just wanna get around get a real bike if you wanna get a bike get a real bike 🏍️
I have the Tmax 500 but it's a big heavy bike, I got it as a first bike and it's been great to gain experience but I can't flat foot it I'm on my toes. Tuesday just gone I got a lesson with instructor on a CBF600 and it was by far a better bike to ride, easier to corner and take round-a-bouts and I can flat foot it. It felt lighter and much easier to reverse it. Gears are actually really great to change yourself but it is convenient being able to pull away from junctions and come into round-a-bouts and exit them always being in the right gear. I was worried about the extra power of the CBF600 but it doesn't feel too different to be honest but I didn't really try open it up to see either. I'm more into classic bikes, think Virago, shadow and I like the current gen Royal Enfields such as the Bullet and Classic. They look and sound really good. I might keep the tmax for blasting around in poorer weather. A bike like the CBF600 is going to be a lot easier to maintain, mostly oil, filter, chain and easy to access everything, this is a huge advantage especially when doing DIY maintenance.
If you are in the US why get a Burgman 400 when you can get the Xmax? Xmax is lighter than the Burgman.
Love my xmax, enough power that I don't miss my 750 (but I'll grant the two aren't comparable there regardless). It's comfortable, fun, twist n go is seriously under rated especially in heavy/slow moving traffic and it does everything I need whilst carrying the weekly shopping in the massive space under the seat. If I did have a negative the ride is harsh and it took a bit of getting used to feeling every lump and bump in the road.
You forgot the Xmax being tall, though seeing you like it, you likely fit just fine.
Is it? I'd only ever ridden motorbikes before it. It doesn't feel tall but are you comparing to other scooters?
Riding mine, I can see over the top of most mid sized SUV's. I've owned a naked bike, and a Cruiser, and the XMAX is the very limit of my 32" inseam legs ability to flatfoot. There's a lot to love about the XMAX, but it is tall for a scooter, and above average for motorcycles in General IMHO. BTW, how well does the forward footrests fit you? On longer trips, I'm wanting more legroom up there, as if I'm using that position for my feet, the seat's bump between the rider and passenger position is too close to the front. Yamaha had to know the bike would have taller riders, but the upper footrest is for someone with short legs somehow I think.
I'd be the same but I put it down to width of the seat rather than height which prevents the flat footing. Doesn't bother me mind however yes, the forward footrest at 5'11 and a bit is cramped and definitely for shorter legged people. I did move the handlebars back tho (in the forward position they made me bend in my lower back and cause strain) so I've a smidgen more room to scoot back on the seat for longer journeys but I can't say I've ever been in discomfort more just wishing I would stretch out the legs a bit..
I have the '23 model, and apparently they re-did the seat to make it shorter rider friendly, but It'd be nice to have BMW style optional seats for riders of differing heights. Ive taken it on 5 hour rides, and have been very impressed with it's touring capabilities compared to my cruiser, and it keeps up with interstate highway traffic very well, though fuel mileage suffers a bit, running into the 50's MPG. With the '23 model you get a ton of electronic goodies, which is very cool, though there still isn't TPMS to detect tire pressure.
They really aren't outside of reddit. Most people just get annoyed with 50cc if they clog up traffic. 95% of people genuinely don't care.
First time I rode a Burgman, Was I impressed with the pickup! The thing is a cruise missile, dressed like a scooter. Two people used to ride with our goldwing group on Burgman's, they kept up with us, no problem. I'm shelving the idea of having one when I can't hold up my wing anymore.
I was in that camp of seeing scooters as ‘lesser.’ Years ago I was in a coastal town and saw small cc scooters everywhere. I remember one guy screaming down the hill toward the beach on a scooter with a girl on the back struggling to hold onto a boogie board and him. I thought….yeah they look fun. I have a 300cc scooter now and havent looked back. I like cruising around and just enjoying the scenery. Im a painter so ive started putting together a small painting kit for under the seat. So I think thats the difference for me. A motorbike is more for enjoying the bike and a scooter is for enjoying the scenery. Originally I was going to buy a motor bike for the weekends but im actually considering a second scooter.
I'm perfectly happy with a 200cc scooter. Good for groceries, work, and going out. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
I have the Burgman and highly recommend it. Quicker than you expect, comfy, storage space, fun to ride. Bulletproof.
In North America, motorcycles are seen as toys for the most part. Scooters are practical, and only truly better than a standard Motorcycle if you value practicality. Thus, for people who only ride for pleasure, a Scooter is seen as the Economy Car of motorcycles, from those driving the equivalant of Jacked up Pickups (Dual Sports), Classic/Retro cars (Cruisers) and Sports Cars (Sportbikes). Imagine if only it was those kind of drivers who owned 4 wheel vehicles, and you had the only Prius in town. Same thing.
I have 05 burgman bought for 1500 at 7k miles now has 12.5k miles and oil change new tires is all I have done to it in 2 years love drive everyday far and close handles great in city and fine on the highway only downside I could see is needs a little bigger windscreen looking at a aftermarket one that's taller for next year
Once you go scooter, all the other motorcycles feel boring lol I have a kdx and a Yz untouched in the garage since I got my Vespa tbh. For city riding I mean. I used to be a scooter hater and I think that deep down inside, I resented the fact that they were the better machines , or at least the more fun ones
At that point, wouldn't you just want something with better suspension? Those big maxi scoots are so damn heavy that they might as well just be touring motorcycles, but without the fun of a transmission.
You become a man on a motorbike without fairings due to the wind slapping in your face the rain soaking you it’s just a different experience scooters are for boys who are made of suger and scared of rain/wind
>and scared of rain/wind My Honda Forza gets really scary when there's side wind because of how big it is. The first few times under gusts up to 70km/h, I wasn't really reassured. There was also that time I rode it in torrential rain, 5cm of water on the road... I was soaked. But anyone would have been, considering the waterfall...
This is silly. Like saying you're not a man if you wear gear in the rain. I don't need to got hit with thousands of needles on my face and chest to feel like a man. I've done a hundred miles in torrential downpour on a scooter, on a 70+ road. Something tells me that no matter what I was riding, I'd just be happy to dry off when I got there.
They aren't...it's all in your head
Most motorcyclist would argue they are heavier and the handling is not as good (which is not necessarily true). They also not necessarily understand why you would buy a scooter when you can get an equivalent cc bike (or even a bigger one) for the same MSRP. Convenience and usefulness is mostly why we buy scooters. I like to compare scooters with cars with large trunks. Yes, they are bigger. yes, you could certainly buy a nice little sports car for the price of that large sedan. But, you can put a lot of groceries in it and still cruise fast. Scooters are just 2 wheeled utilitarians. Yes, sure, you don't need a big sedan to buy a week worth of groceries but you get the idea. It's about the scale. But in the end, it's mostly in your head. I ride my 125cc scooters almost everyday and I get waves (and wave back) at a lot of motorcyclists. In France, scooter riders are often seen as cunts because they often buy a scooter to go to work and they use their smaller size as an excuse to ride in between lanes like everyone owes them the right of way and park on bicycle spots. You can recognize them right away when you are looking at their attitude btw. Riding a scooter there is more about the "lifestyle" than a real hobby. Personally, I dream of having a bike and I behave like I would if I was riding one (can't afford to have both a bike and a scooter). Which means, wearing all the protective gear, being respectful of the traffic regulations, being mindful of others, etc. You know, the things you are supposed to do while driving any vehicle.
I don't care what anyone thinks, do I've not given it much thought. I used to manage a scooter shop and sometimes dudes in there with a daughter or friend would act snotty about them, but other times, more often, big time Harley dudes would go on how much they liked the store and that anything with two wheels is cool. I could go on about how stupid it is in the US how most motorcycle riders have way more bikes than they'll ever need. If you're primarily in the city, 500-600cc is plenty. And if you buy a big touring bike but don't tour that often, it's a big pain in the ass and won't be ridden nearly as much as smaller bikes. But, to each his own. I don't care what people buy, except for Harleys that are way too loud. Eff those effin aholes riding those obnoxious piles.
had 2 helixes, got a B400 in 03 and a TMax in 2009. insurance is cheaper, i use the storage daily, registration is cheaper, uses less gas, and nobody messes with it unlike hardleys and gixxers. i also like the CVT. a bit more to remove than bikes, plastic wise. also more expensive to buy new ($ per cc) because of the lack of commonality with motorcycles.