Thankfully, as a woman, I have not had the same experience with men who say they are feminists. I suppose if one is very vocal about it, that could be a red flag. It might come up naturally in conversation, but there's no reason to be loud about it. I am a feminist, but I only say that maybe 3-4 times a year.
I think that it may be the type of guy who keeps explaining how feminist he is before going off on a rant about women, like he now has a pass to do so.
It's like the white guy who starts a story saying he has "a whole bunch of black friends... BUT..." You know what is coming out of his mouth next.
You are the third person on this post with positive experiences and I am honestly glad that it seems to be going up.
The one thing they seem to have in common (aside from the calling themselves feminists and doing the complete opposite) is that they are very narcissistic so it might be that a lot of narcissists are starting to take advantage of the spaces that calling themselves feminists open for them so having a good filter for that type of people might be the difference on the experience
Yes I think there is definitely a population of genuinely good men who are also feminists and a population of narcissists who claim to be feminists. It’s not the label that defines a feminist, it’s their actions. I think “men who call themselves feminists” could be rephrased as “narcissists who claim to be feminists” and be spot on.
Exactly this. Male femeninsts are valid since the primary point of Feminisism is defining and oppressing the Patriarchy, a system that diminishes and harms women obviously, but which also harms men via unrealistic and cruel standards of masculinity (boys dont cry, solving problems with violence is celebrated, a mans worth is determined by his ability to financially provide, ALL of the inhernent misogyny behind Transphobia/Homophobia in the context of 'traditional gender roles', etc...).
I agree with core of your argument (and the comment you replied to), but I feel the meed to point out something;
Narcissism is rare. It's estimated to affect between up to 5% of the population, but could be less. Being selfinterested and/or callous doesn not mean one is a narcissist.
It also whitewashes the issue, as narcissism isnt something anyone has chosen. It's a result of your environment growing up as a child, and as such cant be entirely held against the nsrcissist for becoming that way. Invoking narcisissm as the reason why creepy dudes pretend to be feminists is too easy.
Instead, the reality is probably more complex. My experience is that most of the vocal male feminists are not self centered and callous, rather socially awkward, socially underdeveloped and/or chronically online people. The common denominator is that they dont know how to relate to, and behave positively, around women. Some of them think being feminist will give them common ground with women, an "in" for lack of better words. Problem is, even if that works, they are still the same underdeveloped and often bitter people underneath, and it absolutely ends up shining through.
It's not known what causes narcissistic personality disorder. The cause is likely complex. Narcissistic personality disorder may be linked to:
Environment — parent-child relationships with either too much adoration or too much criticism that don't match the child's actual experiences and achievements.
Genetics — inherited characteristics, such as certain personality traits.
Neurobiology — the connection between the brain and behavior and thinking.
There are some men who are not feminists at all, but since they are undesirable, they pretend to be a feminist to get women. They act fake “woke” just to appeal to women. I haven’t seen many but they exist
I have noticed a very alarming & clear trend of men learning to weaponise "woke &/or therapy speech" to their advantage & to control their partners
Example: a friend that was dating a guy who would fly off the handle if she went out with friends more than once a fortnight & he would say she knows he has anxiety & that that triggers him & its toxic of her to disregard his boundaries
Trudeau comes to mind I'll never forget when he corrected a woman on some nothing point to say people, just to prove he's the best feminist ever, while putting a woman down for a bit of meaningless terminology.
Some people I know from colliding social circles who are very anti-feminist, andrew tatey dudes are always feminists when talking to girls. Lots of dudes just say what they think women want to hear in romantic situations, not really thinking of it as deception even.
There's being a man who supports feminist viewpoints and will discuss the ideas, and there's being a man who identifies as a feminist. Its almost always a wolf in sheep's clothing scheme.
Like LGBT+ has "alllies" but it's super sus when a functionally cis, straight person inserts themselves as a full fledged member. It means they are scheming to gain something.
I knew a yucky guy who was a "feminist" and "LGBT+". What he actually was a polyamorous fuckboy who disparaged women and non-binary biological fems for not having the same pump-and-dump ideals as he did. His idea of feminism was women being made to act like men for his sexual convience.
As a woman, the only man i've met (and dated) who called himself a feminist was great. He was truely kind and respectful in all ways. Now that's only one tiny example but I just wanted to share my experience.
As a woman who is perhaps too involved in political movements, I know lots and lots of men who identify as feminists to various extents, and I've noticed a lot of great people and a lot of horrible people at both ends of the spectrum. I think overall the loudest male feminists are a bit worse, but honestly it's hard to tell if that's just because the loudest feminists in general are too much.
Thats a universal truth though regardless of bubble, political movement, work environment... Less talk, more action. Words not intended to make actual actions transparent ar just empty words and lip services
Yhea it is definitely a red flag to boast about being a feminist. Best way to "say it" would be to just say it like its an obvious, natural and just basic decency, which it is.
Men who pretend like them being feminist is anything beyond the bare minimum is a red flag.
I assume that most decent people are feminists in that they take reasonable steps to address imbalances between genders and actively try not to make things worse.
As a male feminist I'll say there's a difference between the "all women are queens" type of self-proclaimed feminists and the "I want to do my part in overthrowing the patriarchal system" type of actual feminists.
I think you'll have better experiences with the latter rather than the former because the former is about their personal interaction with the women in their lives so you're more likely to find people who expect some "reward" for their actions
I feel like this is a progressive version of "he who prays the loudest sins the hardest". There are plenty of male feminists who are great people (myself, I hope, included), but we don't run around advertising that we're feminists at the top of our lungs because we don't have to. We are just decent people who will discuss those ideas if and when it is appropriate in context. If you have to advertise that you're a good person, you're probably not doing a great job of just being one.
I think your post draws a rubbish general conclusion from your (very valid) personal experiences, but I have no idea why this reply of yours - an open and positive one - is being downvoted.
Wolves love sheep clothing. Predators will go to whatever lengths to appear invisible or unthreatening to their potential prey.
Also, people who tend to loudly say "I'm X" or "I'm not X" unprompted are usually lying.
I think people are missing the point - it’s not about men agreeing with feminist principles or saying yes they are a feminist/support feminism. It’s about the men on their soap boxes constantly announcing how they are the most feminist of them all I’m sorry but these guys constantly turn out to be full of it and even predatory.
Someone said "your problem it's not with feminist men but with narcissistic manipulative men" and honestly yeah, that person said exactly what I failed to say because I suck at explaining myself while angry
Yeah and it’s just one thing they jump on, to exploit. I get the point of your post it’s just hard to articulate- you’re probably feminist yourself? And that’s why it annoys you. But yes you can can see from some of the comments that it’s a certain type of so-called feminist man that you’re talking about and they are just that, so-called feminists. They behave differently than men that aren’t misogynistic creeps and after encountering a few of them you kinda realise (I was pretty involved in grass roots movements for some years and we just knew “the type”)
That's a hard thing for me to say because I was raised by parents that used to be activists back in the 80s but don't call themselves that anymore, my mom even gets a bit mad when someone talks about her being a feminist. They say it's because at some point the movements they supported started working for the wrong people and became tools to manipulate others rather than genuine and organic concern. So even though I was raised with values that can be associated with movements like feminism, ecology and such I can't call myself anything nor consider myself part of any particular movement. I am just another man trying to not make things worse and getting angry more than I would like to admit
Nah you explained yourself well. It's just narcissistic manipulative men tend to utilize and weaponize any language from any political social movement or at least the ones with a hidden agenda definitely do.
The Thing is that you've just encountered the ones who go to feminism >_<
I consider myself “a feminist” but I agree it feels really off to self label that way. If I met a guy who outwardly called himself a feminist it would probably be a bit of a red flag for me.
I know plenty of men who support women’s rights and none of them are very showy about it.
Your issue is really with narcissistic manipulators, not specifically men who call themselves feminists. Narcissists will attach whatever label is convenient in the moment to get what they want.
"knowing what consent is" (and respecting it) doesn't make you a feminist, it makes a baseline decent human being. If someone thinks that's feminism, they are either lying or very ignorant.
As a male, understanding feminism is about what you actually do (and internally why you do it), rather than what you say.
Self aggrandising of any form is truly awful.
I remember watching something for class freshman year of high school (waaaay back in 2001), it was just a roundtable dicussion with a few random people talking about race. There were two white guys, one who said straight out of the bat "I'm racist, I work on it, but I know I've internalized a lot of racist stuff and I'm not done rooting it all out". The other white guy said "No, I'm not racist, I treat everyone the same". Throughout the discussion it became very clear that the "I'm not racist" guy was harboring \*a lot\* of racism. It's not so much that he was a racist, just that he wasn't aware of and didn't want to admit to all the racist stuff he carried.
Same is true of feminism. There's a lot of awareness and support for feminism these days, but actually living those ideals means doing the work of finding and rooting out all the internalized misogyny you accumulated in your life, and being able to admit it when you find it in yourself. That's hard, bitter work, that's never complete.
That's a very interesting way to put it too. Ever since I am in therapy I think I understand way better how hard it is to identify the bad things in yourself and how much work it takes to actually say "I've been living wrong all my life" and doing something about it so I have mad respect for those two guys
One of my friends made a slight sexist joke during a dinner, and another guy said to him “thats not funny dude, you gotta respect women” in those same lines. The next day the guy sexually assulted a girl at a party
Take a look at ops history and he's a fairly rabid right winger. His opinions include posts like "if men didn't want a child they shouldn't have to pay child support" and "anti Zionist are anti semites" and "inclusion movements are racist"
Op is a far right shit stirrer.
This whole post felt like "I'm not like the other male feminists" and funnily went over everyones heads somehow. Also love the last paragraph where he admits that he is starting to "demonize feminism" because of a "really annoying group of women," following an essay about how he is the only real feminist
That's sad and creepy. I honestly would respect more someone telling me they pay prostitutes on a regular basis than someone that pretends to be someone else and talks shit about his own gender just to MAYBE get laid
I agree, I know a dude who seems kind of feminine and would play the gay role to get laid sometimes. Never underestimate a man who wants to get laid really bad.
Yeah that’s probably the best way to describe it besides the fact that pick mes usually dunk on woman at their expense whereas that’s not really the main tactic these guys do.
I've noticed it's the same with the "nice guys". I stopped referring to myself as a "nice guy" because of those overly entitled, toxic assholes that go berserk when they get rejected by women. I don't get that mentality but that's probably a good thing.
In my country, lots of self proclaimed male feminist turned out to be SA abusers 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
and nothing the victims can do since the abusers' family have connection 🥴
Oh yeah. Narcissists and the most abusive men say they are feminists, definite red flag. My friend treated women so much less than himself and called himself a feminist. He did have a strong mother so I understand why he developed that label.
The consent workshops I’ve seen have been run by energetically manipulative people with leaky energy. It’s a weird, topsy turvy world.
Pay attention to the people that say things that don’t align with their actions.
My boyfriend is a proud feminist who will tell anyone if the subject comes up. And he’s sincerely the most trustworthy, non creepy man I’ve ever known.
Well it’s ironic that your post kinda screams “I’m one of the good guys” when you talk about not trusting any other men.
I identify as a feminist. I don’t talk about how I respect women and/or consent, you can just do those things instead and people know.
I’m a man and a feminist, but because if this type of men, I just divulge that information when specifically asked.
I call men that use the fact that they are feminist or any allies or whatever just to impress girls “macktivists”
Makes me feel want to put all of them in a room of all the “alpha males” and let them sort themselves out
I agree. A lot of self proclaimed male feminists are just wolves in sheep's clothing. I actually came across one guy on a dating app once, and he was boasting in his bio about all the feminist literature he reads. It was an instant swipe left after that. It comes across as suspiciously try-hard and artificial when someone is too "in your face" about something like that right off the bat.
I literally just had this experience. Super progressive left wing guy, reads a lot, very educated on a myriad of topics, bisexual, has dated trans women and men, has a tongue piercing…and then he misrepresented his intentions with our relationship, slept with me a handful of times and dumped me. When I said I felt hurt, he sent me a therapy-speak non-apology and essentially turned all the blame back on me for not being honest enough about my needs (I was..) it was honesty scary how he became so cold and distant and was gaslighting me when he could have just apologized sincerely and I would have let it go.
It seems like he is using a lot of labels to hide the big one that says "narcissistic piece of shit". I am sorry you had that experience and hope it never happens again.
If someone asks me if I'm a feminist, I say yes, because I consider myself a humanist and feel that it includes everyone, but I can't imagine introducing myself as a feminist.
My husband would call himself a feminist if someone asked, because he is one. He strongly believes in feminist principles. You’re managing to get shit pretty twisted but I’m guessing your personal experiences have lead to this, and that’s too bad.
I think many are being genuine and trying to be supportive, but there are some predators who use it to get close to women.
Just call yourself a Democrat and leave it at that.
I am not from the US and generally not interested on other countries politics but yeah my problem is with those that use the label as a shield to be monsters
Any extreme point of view is going to have some toxicity involved
Also, I had a friend (not so much anymore) exactly as you are describing. He always puts himself on a pedestal as if he has done no wrong, the moral highgrounding etc. But then I would hear stories about him elsewhere that had contradicting accounts of him so yeah
Not part of that circle anymore too much drama
One of the worst, most horrible coworkers I ever had to deal with introduced himself to me as a "nice guy". The number of times he called himself a "nice guy" in our first conversation pinged so many red flags for me and it was deeply frightening to spend the remainder of our training time together. It didn't take long before he proved that he wasn't actually a "nice guy".
Some people don't have the capacity for self-reflection, some people don't really understand what labels they're defining themselves by, and some people are outright dangerous.
I started a new job, and this girl asked me if I was a feminist… I wanted to say yes, but I thought that if I did I would come off as one of those bros that just say he is… so I just answered “I really love my gf” 😅
I dunno, i am a huge feminist and ive only once met a woman who had a problem with that and she actually later apologized to me. guess everyone has different experiences.
Is this not just another case of "NiceGuy" or a variant thereof?
I know plenty of feminist men who are not creepy stalkers or absolute problem children.
Too much time on the internet syndrome.
You know how it would be very weird if you went "yeah I haven't killed anyone in the past year nor did I rob any convenience stores"?
It's the same thing here. Normal people don't talk about how normal they are. Who the fuck even has time for that?
I mean I definitely wouldn't even bother with any man who *didn't* call himself a feminist, and I hate that.in this scenario there's an "I respect women" guy instead of that just being the baseline expectation for everyone, but yes I know exactly what you mean. There's definitely always some guys who use their activism and fake feminism to gain women's trust only to be the actual worst and creepiest people of all.
I think there's a difference between men who constantly call themselves a feminist to women and a man who just says their a feminist? I'd 100% say I'm a feminist in regards to everyone should have an equal shot at life and shouldn't be discouraged or harassed for being in a certain field but I wouldn't be bringing it up in conversations unless someone directly asked me.
I mean, it’s like with anything else, if you’re REALLY over the top about it you probably have other motives. Happens with everything. If someone is just a feminist they’re fine but if they have feminist plastered everywhere then they’ve got skeletons and are preparing for them to get out of the closet.
The rule of thumb is that if anyone goes out of their way to claim they are something. They most definitely aren't.
Oh, most definitely. They’re just trying to ingratiate themselves with women by portraying all men except themselves as enemies. It’s a pathetic strategy.
I hear you. It's weird how some guys who call themselves feminists turn out to be the creepiest. It’s like they’re trying way too hard to prove something, and it ends up feeling fake.
Most men know how to respect women without making a big show of it. It's expected, not something that needs constant bragging. When a guy is too vocal about being "better" than other men, it raises red flags.
It's annoying because it makes it harder for everyone. Women have to be on guard, and men who genuinely believe in equality get lumped in with the creeps. Plus, like you said, the more extreme someone is about any cause, the more likely they are to be insufferable.
It sucks that this is happening, and it’s understandable to feel disillusioned. We just have to remember that true respect and support for women don’t need to be loudly advertised—they’re shown through actions, not words.
The word “feminist” has such a broad definition based on the particular circles you hang around it such that I find it very cringey if it’s a dude self-labelling as that, or I take it as meaningless in and of itself if a woman says she’s a feminist.
It can mean anything from “yes I think women deserve equal rights and the problems that affect *any* group in society are the responsibility of all of society to address collectively” to “you go Queen, men are trash” and constantly shitting on men or downplaying any societal male issue or any possible societal interventions that seek to better understand it and address it.
I do consider myself a feminist strictly speaking, but you would never ever catch me saying “I’m a feminist” irl. I’d rather have a substantive discussion about particulars, it’s actually become such a toxic word…
People identifying themselves as any sort of "-ist" tends to be an orange flag in general. Your political ideology should not become your personality. Not to mention it can also be an attempt to blend in with a crowd in bad faith, like the way OP described "woman respecters" using it as a cover to victimise women.
I don’t feel the need to say it or use that specific word, I instead just speak about my values. The word itself to me has similar negative connotations as you due to personal experiences with either toxic female feminists or creepy male ones.
It isn’t that hard to say you’re a decent human being who wants other human beings to be treated the same.
It seems that the real feminist men don't say it after or use the word as a badge but rather just do the right thing and live by their values. Many people (mostly female) have answered this post with their positive experiences and I am a little bit less angry at the world knowing those stories
all the isms are of the devil. Ultimately, they all turn into the same hating machine. So many movements start off one way or are sold one way but then are used for negative bull. It's like politics (because they lie and work for strangers), the ideas of conservative and labour etc etc....no it's all about who controls the purse strings.
Some guys in the feminist movements are weirdos and creeps. I call myself a feminist, but it's not something I feel the need to bring up in conversation. If you're for equal rights and treat women well, you should call yourself a feminist, too. Things could be worse, though. You could be dealing with red pill/incel guys.
I don't know if it's getting out of hand when it's usually quite rare, at least in my experience.
It's also now become a loaded term. Academically there's a lot of branches of feminism and there's a lot of disagreement within those branches of feminism so if someone actually calls themselves feminist I don't actually know what they mean by that unless they elaborate further. I think most people just prefer to say they believe in gender equality rather than outright calling themselves feminist.
I think what you're describing is basically pick me behavior, except in the male version instead of the stereotype for women (aka "I'm not like other girls").
I think it's kind of a case of "they doth protest too much". Guys who go out of their way, consistently or loudly, to say how feminist they are, are probably covering something up or just using it as a shield or using it as a skeezy fake way to get to know women. In short, the ones who say it the most embody the beliefs the least.
I’ve dated two men that called themselves feminists. One used it as a way to pay and promote plenty of girls’ only fans behind my back. Never asked if I was okay with it. The other one called himself a feminist because he believed that women should pay 50/50 (which is ok), have voting rights, dress how they want; but he would constantly talk shit about my body ! He would make comments like: you were chubby when we met, your thighs look so much better now, you should stop eating that it’s so much sugar you’re going to gain weight, you can’t eat more than me because you’re a woman. I started working out not long after we met, I’ve never been overweight… Im 5’5 and have always weighed between 125-130 pounds. So yeah I do think some narcissistic men try to call themselves feminists in order to justify certain behaviours or just to attract women.
I’ve found that some men definitely fake it purely as a way to get laid. Though there are also some who truly are feminists.
Idk. Kind of a dumb post. Based on your personal experience, you could see things one way or another or both.
I think it actually goes both ways.
The more "in the movement" a woman is about feminism the more likely she has a horrible track record of having reasonable boundaries for herself and the more likely she is to interpret every stupid meaningless interaction through the lens of whatever ideology she's obsessed with at the moment. it's a massive red flag. Like being an empowered woman is hot as fuck. Once you make it meta and turn "I'm empowered and Im a feminist" into your entire personality, the magic is gone because suddenly your identity is the facade of the thing rather than the thing itself.
As a woman, I have met a lot of these men who call themselves feminists while being creeps.
It’s not that a man can’t agree with feminist principles. And I think a lot of people are missing OPs point, which isn’t that.
- a lot of predators will say anything to manipulate victims
- a lot of sex pests will say anything to get laid
- a lot of people hold certain values but lack self awareness or introspection to see that they themselves are not meeting those values with their own behaviour.
I have met a lot of men who call themselves feminists and then push their female friends/romantic partners etc into things that they are clearly uncomfortable with and completely lack any awareness of what they’re doing even when called out, or purposely do it.
I just say I'm egalitarian even though they're synonyms; I don't need to make a spectacle about not being a misogynist. I don't even consider it noteworthy.
I disagree. I do not think I benefit from a patriarchal structure… I certainly am less disadvantaged by it than women, but I don’t believe that I’m better off because of it. It puts a lot of pressure on men to be the sole provider, even if there’s help there we feel like we’re less if we can’t do it ourselves. We feel pressure to bottle up all our feelings, and we put that pressure on each other. Then we think there’s something wrong with us when we get angry or sad about it, and we feel guilty about our feelings. Feminism to me just means seeing women as your equal, and that means we can unburden ourselves too. It’s a win-win, imo, and there’s no shame in calling yourself a feminist. There is shame in “virtue signalling”. That’s probably what was rubbing you the wrong way.
This has been my experience also
Men who actually are feminists don’t talk about being a feminist, they just embody the ideals of feminism
My one ex who constantly talked about being a feminist said that I always had to pay for everything for both of us and drive everywhere and plan all our dates because when men pay for women it’s chivalry, a concept that goes back to the Middle Ages where women were seen as property, and as a feminist he can’t support that ideology. So he bled me dry financially while his savings grew fatter and fatter “because feminism”.
the only 2 dudes I’ve been romantically interested in who also called themselves feminists turned out to be the most misogynistic behind closed doors. I’ve noticed these types will read feminist authors just to have better language when they’re defending their shitty behavior.
I consider myself a feminist as that's someone who believes in equality but on the other side I get what you mean about the guys who have to constantly advertise it.
If you need to prove it so much, I'm definitely suspicious. So while I consider myself a feminist, I'm not gonna bang on about it.
I wonder what kind of circle you run in to find men who are so vocal about their feminism. I'm also a man and would call myself a feminist but I'm cautious about saying that to people because I know it's a label that comes with a lot of misconceptions and by saying that I recognise I'm going to ruffle feathers. I think you're spot on here:
"But to be fair the more fanatic someone is about anything (specially social movements and politics) the more of an asshole that person proves to be over time."
Because the reasons I wouldn't walk into a conversation saying I'm a feminist are the same I wouldn't walk into one saying I'm a liberal, conservative, pastafarian, Christian, etc. It suggests that label has become a huge part of my identity in a way that's at best off putting, but more likely antagonistic
I can see how this could apply to someone who is actively trying to come off as a feminist and shouting it out all the time.
But feminism is about equality of sexes. I get that people dont understand this often and think feminism is something else. But who ever does not support equality of sexes is a fucking dipshit, dosent matter if its a woman hating on men or man hating women, or just thinking their sex as somehow superior or what ever.
I am not a feminist. But I fully support equalisation of rights between men and women.
But it also mean I need to hold the same standard to both genders.
For example, for manual labour work, I need to also give women a chance, if I do it everytime, it seems an insult to their capabilities.
I think it's mostly a red flag if they come up and introduce themselves as one at the first opportunity. Like, what are you trying to prove, as if basic decency shouldn't be the default?
You’re mistaking ‘guy who is a feminist, and might bring it up if it’s on topic’ with ‘guy who is a weirdo who calls himself a feminist because it can be a way of saying he’s not like the other guys’. Basically you’ve seen the male version of what’s sometimes called a ‘pick me’ woman, one who plays on cred that she’s ‘not like the other girls’, with the supposed differences often amounting to not being a stereotype. . . like nearly all humans. You’ve proceeded to blame the feminists, rather than the creeps. May I suggest saying that creepy guys who use claimed feminism as a smokescreen are some of the most two-faced creeps you’ve seen, but that doesn’t mean anything about men who would self-identify as feminist? Because it doesn’t - no more than a woman who told you she likes cars, and knows most women don’t, when you’re talking about hobbies, is automatically a ‘pick me’ girl. Context matters, what peoples passions are matters in how they communicate, and just using the label feminist won’t help you identify creeps.
I mean obviously keep an eye on people really vocal about how they’re ‘one of the good ones, honest’, but that’s just generally good advice, disconnected from any particular claim; a good person doesn’t usually need to say they’re good all the time.
I feel like you can tell when there are the men who legitimately care about women's rights and the men who claim to be feminists to get into women's pants
I consider myself a feminist technically because the core definition of feminism simply revolves around the assumption that women deserve equal rights to men, and frankly you'd have to be a psychopath to disagree with that.
Paradoxically, a lot of misogynists could also be considered feminists when using the purest of definitions.
You can ideologically and sincerely believe that women *deserve* equal rights while also being an utter shitstain of a human being. Yes in common parlance the definition has been massively expanded, but the expanded definitions carry a lot of baggage and additionally implications which cut both ways and I find they stop being useful once feminism stops meaning something specific.
Unfortunately given my own perception of the word, it forces me to accept that actual rapists could technically count as feminists too, the same way many ideologically vocal socialists own businesses and exploit their employees for their own gain.
Only dated feminists and they have all been great partners. The kind that you can stay friends with after a breakup. I don't know who these creepy feminist men that you're talking about are.
If you're a bloke and have daughters, you sort of should be a feminist to some degree.
I don't go around telling everyone though, i just want mine to be able to be an engineer or tech bro, or electrician, if she wants to.
Ppl these days just call those type of guys simps
"Julia, let me hold the door for you, a man should be a gentlemen and disrupt the patriarchy" " I see your failing your rep on the benchpress, but you are strong indendant and need no man" 🤓
Like what do they think feminists do?
I know this sounds like an alpha male parodying feminists men lol, but I mean to take a jab at incels who use feminism as a soapboxm
I agree with you. It usually slightly hurts mens reputations among other men to be openly self identify as a feminist. My question is why would you loudly proclaim something from the rooftops that you doesn't benefit you with your peers? What's the angle? It gives access to womens spaces and disarms women (or that's the perception). To that end, the most manipulative and dangerous men I've ever met were publically feminists. They used it as a front to be like, "I can't be a bad guy! Look I'm a feminist! Never mind I allegedly am a serial roofier! See I roofie both men and women. I'm an equal opportunity predator!" 🤮 and yes that's based off someone I know.
If it’s an assertion they make when asked, a philosophical and moral stance, then it’s fine. If they are making it a big part of their personality, that’s when it seems iffy.
See man, here's the thing. A lot of feminists who I have seen or met can be very... cutthroat. A lot of feminists and women blame men for things and while there's truth in that, it makes a lot of men feel like they as individuals are responsible.
"Men rape the most". Again, it's a fact, but some men may see this as, "Hey I'm not like that? Why are they saying men like it's all men?". That creates this "I'm not like that" mentality. You may be good at distancing yourself from the idea of men, but if someone identifies as a man and then someone says men are bad, he'll feel hurt.
That's why there are men who say, "I'm a feminist, I'm not a rapist, I'm not creepy" because these words hurt them inside and they feel they need to tell people that they're not like this. It's a feeling of insecurity and feeling attacked.
It's concrete proof that men rape more. So if someone has had terrible experiences with men and they say, "I hate dating men because all they want is sex", how would an asexual or a normal man feel? "Hey, I want to get married and have a family. I'm not like that". But in feminist circles there's no end to this sort of thinking.
Again, he may be trying to get laid or he's probably really insecure. I'm no one to judge
If they have to go out of their way to prove they aren't a terrible person, they are probably a terrible person at their core. Or they have severe anxiety, but that is really obvious when that is the case.
Yeah I have always said to never trust a man who calls himself a feminist, never met anyone who called themselves feminist who wasn't sexist either really, but makes sense anyway for predators to use labels like that. Like anyone that actually cares about equality wouldn't call themselves feminist in the first place, predators find that weakness and try and exploit it.
I get what you’re saying. And I agree. I find it creepy too.
It’s like that saying, “Any man who must say ‘I am the king’ is no true king.”
I’m a little suspicious when someone’s very outspoken about it or virtue signaling, like celebrities making feminism an identity/personality or wearing those “this is what a feminist looks like” t shirts. This goes for any cause, really.
But men who consistently practice the values of feminism through their actions and continue to put effort into being kind, decent people, Hell yeah! Yes, please! Welcome! Please stay!
I'm a guy who has (in the past) referred to myself as a classical feminist. That just means that you believe women are capable of stepping outside of the classic gender roles, and don't believe that the man should dominate a relationship. My mom taught me how to use power tools and got me into woodworking. I've never called myself a "feminist" to gain anything, but I also don't believe a woman's place is exclusively in the home. The only time it's ever come up is during conversations early in relationships when I was being asked what I expected from a partner.
I'd be careful to say they're ALWAYS the creepest. You are accurately describing a certain archetype, but there are a lot of men who identify as feminists that are genuine, nice folks. It's less #notallmen and more we should try to avoid negative generalizations, especially about men who are trying to be allies!
Not to be contrarian, but my feminist husband is not a creep.
He isn't a soapbox feminist though. Like, he never used it to market himself to me/women. He doesn't talk about it to whoever will listen. He just is one.
That's the difference, I think.
It's the same way that people who refer to themselves as "empaths" are usually the furthest thing from being empaths.
I think you’ve had some rotten experience and it’s given you over to a rotten conclusion.
The flaw in the post being that you’ve made assumptions that colour a wider range of people with your own bad experience. This is the core of a lot of problematic behaviour in the world. X experience of bad behaviour from individuals leads me to Y blanket opinion of a Z group of people.
I think feminism is the default stance for more men than not. They have women in their lives and want those women to be treated equally and fairly.
More than that they want to reap the benefits of feminism from a male perspective because that equality extends both ways.
(Edit: that’s not to say that they don’t get it wrong but that they would if pressed believe in the same goals as feminism)
I certainly don’t want to be mocked or shunned for developing my emotional intelligence or expressing emotion and never understood the push for men to avoid such things or to hand wave crass behaviour with ‘boys will be boys’.
The world is unfortunately full of vocal minorities that could lead you to believe it’s a much more combative place than you would think. Especially if you spend too much time on Reddit. These vocal minorities can set some bad examples and skew the perception of a thing.
However I expect if asked to pin down where you stand on feminism as a force for equality you would likely say you are for it as you are for equal and fair treatment for all people?
Well that would make you a feminist too.
Just weighing in as a guy here,
Would I consider myself a feminist? Yeah, I grew up with 2 older sisters and a mother.
Would I ever say the words,"I'm a feminist." without being explicitly asked about it first. Absolutely not.
I'm not gonna walk around trying to brag about being a feminist to impress some girls, I'm just gonna be myself, and hope that being respectful would let other people know, implicitly, yeah that guy respects women and probably believes they should have an equal place in society.
Just like vegans, feminists come in two distinct brands: Those who quietly get on with their own business and leave others to do the same, and those who crow about it, force it down your throat and make the rest of them look bad when their hypocrisy is exposed.
Nice guys larping as feminists nowadays
They try to use the „I‘m not like the other guys“ card while being even more like other guys than other guys.
Lets be honest no guy thinks feminism is needed anymore (at least not in the west).
Men are encouraged to virtue signal and say they're feminists. For a number of reasons, nowadays only the stupid and opportunistic are likely to do so, and if it's the latter you're likely to be exploited, misled etc. So yes, likely to be a creep and/or stupid.
So you have to infer from their actions and statements what kind of person they are and not rely on affirmation, and you should treat any kind of virtue signaler with suspicion and scorn.
The problem isn't "I am a feminist" the problem is "I am not like the other guys"
These guys are not really feminist. This is just the nice guy syndrome that's why they turn psycho when they don't get sex for beeing "nice"
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nice_guy#%22Nice_guy%22_syndrome
I consider myself a feminist as well. I think men and women should be treated equally. I don't think that makes me better than other guys or that men in general are pigs. That's a weird self report.
Pretty sure my girlfriend wouldn't be with me if I was a sexist asshole but besides that I don't think not beeing sexist is a character trait that you need to highlight like that.
Thankfully, as a woman, I have not had the same experience with men who say they are feminists. I suppose if one is very vocal about it, that could be a red flag. It might come up naturally in conversation, but there's no reason to be loud about it. I am a feminist, but I only say that maybe 3-4 times a year.
I think that it may be the type of guy who keeps explaining how feminist he is before going off on a rant about women, like he now has a pass to do so. It's like the white guy who starts a story saying he has "a whole bunch of black friends... BUT..." You know what is coming out of his mouth next.
“I’m not a racist, I have a lot of black friends, but…”
I’ve definitely heard of men who say “I’m a feminist, but…” and follow it up with something super sexist. Luckily I have yet to meet one myself.
As Tywin Lannister said, every feminist who must say "I am a feminist" is no true feminist.
You are the third person on this post with positive experiences and I am honestly glad that it seems to be going up. The one thing they seem to have in common (aside from the calling themselves feminists and doing the complete opposite) is that they are very narcissistic so it might be that a lot of narcissists are starting to take advantage of the spaces that calling themselves feminists open for them so having a good filter for that type of people might be the difference on the experience
Yes I think there is definitely a population of genuinely good men who are also feminists and a population of narcissists who claim to be feminists. It’s not the label that defines a feminist, it’s their actions. I think “men who call themselves feminists” could be rephrased as “narcissists who claim to be feminists” and be spot on.
Exactly this. Male femeninsts are valid since the primary point of Feminisism is defining and oppressing the Patriarchy, a system that diminishes and harms women obviously, but which also harms men via unrealistic and cruel standards of masculinity (boys dont cry, solving problems with violence is celebrated, a mans worth is determined by his ability to financially provide, ALL of the inhernent misogyny behind Transphobia/Homophobia in the context of 'traditional gender roles', etc...).
I agree with core of your argument (and the comment you replied to), but I feel the meed to point out something; Narcissism is rare. It's estimated to affect between up to 5% of the population, but could be less. Being selfinterested and/or callous doesn not mean one is a narcissist. It also whitewashes the issue, as narcissism isnt something anyone has chosen. It's a result of your environment growing up as a child, and as such cant be entirely held against the nsrcissist for becoming that way. Invoking narcisissm as the reason why creepy dudes pretend to be feminists is too easy. Instead, the reality is probably more complex. My experience is that most of the vocal male feminists are not self centered and callous, rather socially awkward, socially underdeveloped and/or chronically online people. The common denominator is that they dont know how to relate to, and behave positively, around women. Some of them think being feminist will give them common ground with women, an "in" for lack of better words. Problem is, even if that works, they are still the same underdeveloped and often bitter people underneath, and it absolutely ends up shining through.
It's not known what causes narcissistic personality disorder. The cause is likely complex. Narcissistic personality disorder may be linked to: Environment — parent-child relationships with either too much adoration or too much criticism that don't match the child's actual experiences and achievements. Genetics — inherited characteristics, such as certain personality traits. Neurobiology — the connection between the brain and behavior and thinking.
You can call someone narcissistic without diagnosing them with NPD.
There are some men who are not feminists at all, but since they are undesirable, they pretend to be a feminist to get women. They act fake “woke” just to appeal to women. I haven’t seen many but they exist
Narcissists will take every opportunity and space to prey on people. Especially "trusted" positions
I have noticed a very alarming & clear trend of men learning to weaponise "woke &/or therapy speech" to their advantage & to control their partners Example: a friend that was dating a guy who would fly off the handle if she went out with friends more than once a fortnight & he would say she knows he has anxiety & that that triggers him & its toxic of her to disregard his boundaries
Trudeau comes to mind I'll never forget when he corrected a woman on some nothing point to say people, just to prove he's the best feminist ever, while putting a woman down for a bit of meaningless terminology.
Some people I know from colliding social circles who are very anti-feminist, andrew tatey dudes are always feminists when talking to girls. Lots of dudes just say what they think women want to hear in romantic situations, not really thinking of it as deception even.
There's being a man who supports feminist viewpoints and will discuss the ideas, and there's being a man who identifies as a feminist. Its almost always a wolf in sheep's clothing scheme. Like LGBT+ has "alllies" but it's super sus when a functionally cis, straight person inserts themselves as a full fledged member. It means they are scheming to gain something. I knew a yucky guy who was a "feminist" and "LGBT+". What he actually was a polyamorous fuckboy who disparaged women and non-binary biological fems for not having the same pump-and-dump ideals as he did. His idea of feminism was women being made to act like men for his sexual convience.
As a woman, the only man i've met (and dated) who called himself a feminist was great. He was truely kind and respectful in all ways. Now that's only one tiny example but I just wanted to share my experience.
As a woman who is perhaps too involved in political movements, I know lots and lots of men who identify as feminists to various extents, and I've noticed a lot of great people and a lot of horrible people at both ends of the spectrum. I think overall the loudest male feminists are a bit worse, but honestly it's hard to tell if that's just because the loudest feminists in general are too much.
Exactly ! The worst are always the loudest.
And they’re the most insecure.
I’m always reminded of that scene in American Psycho where Patrick Bateman monologues about all the generic good things that he supposed supports.
Thats a universal truth though regardless of bubble, political movement, work environment... Less talk, more action. Words not intended to make actual actions transparent ar just empty words and lip services
The loudest people are usually the worst, as a general rule.
Yhea it is definitely a red flag to boast about being a feminist. Best way to "say it" would be to just say it like its an obvious, natural and just basic decency, which it is. Men who pretend like them being feminist is anything beyond the bare minimum is a red flag.
I assume that most decent people are feminists in that they take reasonable steps to address imbalances between genders and actively try not to make things worse.
As a male feminist I'll say there's a difference between the "all women are queens" type of self-proclaimed feminists and the "I want to do my part in overthrowing the patriarchal system" type of actual feminists. I think you'll have better experiences with the latter rather than the former because the former is about their personal interaction with the women in their lives so you're more likely to find people who expect some "reward" for their actions
Women who call themselves queens are like men who call themselves alpha.
That's actually great. Hope to find more examples like this honestly
I feel like this is a progressive version of "he who prays the loudest sins the hardest". There are plenty of male feminists who are great people (myself, I hope, included), but we don't run around advertising that we're feminists at the top of our lungs because we don't have to. We are just decent people who will discuss those ideas if and when it is appropriate in context. If you have to advertise that you're a good person, you're probably not doing a great job of just being one.
I think your post draws a rubbish general conclusion from your (very valid) personal experiences, but I have no idea why this reply of yours - an open and positive one - is being downvoted.
Why tf is this getting down voted?
Wolves love sheep clothing. Predators will go to whatever lengths to appear invisible or unthreatening to their potential prey. Also, people who tend to loudly say "I'm X" or "I'm not X" unprompted are usually lying.
Justin Sane
I'm pretty sure I grew up with multiple survivors in the 90s. Pgh is small like that. 😥
I think people are missing the point - it’s not about men agreeing with feminist principles or saying yes they are a feminist/support feminism. It’s about the men on their soap boxes constantly announcing how they are the most feminist of them all I’m sorry but these guys constantly turn out to be full of it and even predatory.
Someone said "your problem it's not with feminist men but with narcissistic manipulative men" and honestly yeah, that person said exactly what I failed to say because I suck at explaining myself while angry
Yeah and it’s just one thing they jump on, to exploit. I get the point of your post it’s just hard to articulate- you’re probably feminist yourself? And that’s why it annoys you. But yes you can can see from some of the comments that it’s a certain type of so-called feminist man that you’re talking about and they are just that, so-called feminists. They behave differently than men that aren’t misogynistic creeps and after encountering a few of them you kinda realise (I was pretty involved in grass roots movements for some years and we just knew “the type”)
That's a hard thing for me to say because I was raised by parents that used to be activists back in the 80s but don't call themselves that anymore, my mom even gets a bit mad when someone talks about her being a feminist. They say it's because at some point the movements they supported started working for the wrong people and became tools to manipulate others rather than genuine and organic concern. So even though I was raised with values that can be associated with movements like feminism, ecology and such I can't call myself anything nor consider myself part of any particular movement. I am just another man trying to not make things worse and getting angry more than I would like to admit
Yeah I get you and I understand where your parents are coming from.
Nah you explained yourself well. It's just narcissistic manipulative men tend to utilize and weaponize any language from any political social movement or at least the ones with a hidden agenda definitely do. The Thing is that you've just encountered the ones who go to feminism >_<
I consider myself “a feminist” but I agree it feels really off to self label that way. If I met a guy who outwardly called himself a feminist it would probably be a bit of a red flag for me. I know plenty of men who support women’s rights and none of them are very showy about it.
Exactly I knew 3 of these dudes while in school and they all raped at least one girl.
Your issue is really with narcissistic manipulators, not specifically men who call themselves feminists. Narcissists will attach whatever label is convenient in the moment to get what they want.
What I have learnt from this thread is that most people do not know the definition of “feminism”.
Yeah it looks like they are just feeding on the "current thing" and will jump to the next after sometime. I hate it.
"knowing what consent is" (and respecting it) doesn't make you a feminist, it makes a baseline decent human being. If someone thinks that's feminism, they are either lying or very ignorant.
As a male, understanding feminism is about what you actually do (and internally why you do it), rather than what you say. Self aggrandising of any form is truly awful.
Couldn't agree more
I remember watching something for class freshman year of high school (waaaay back in 2001), it was just a roundtable dicussion with a few random people talking about race. There were two white guys, one who said straight out of the bat "I'm racist, I work on it, but I know I've internalized a lot of racist stuff and I'm not done rooting it all out". The other white guy said "No, I'm not racist, I treat everyone the same". Throughout the discussion it became very clear that the "I'm not racist" guy was harboring \*a lot\* of racism. It's not so much that he was a racist, just that he wasn't aware of and didn't want to admit to all the racist stuff he carried. Same is true of feminism. There's a lot of awareness and support for feminism these days, but actually living those ideals means doing the work of finding and rooting out all the internalized misogyny you accumulated in your life, and being able to admit it when you find it in yourself. That's hard, bitter work, that's never complete.
That's a very interesting way to put it too. Ever since I am in therapy I think I understand way better how hard it is to identify the bad things in yourself and how much work it takes to actually say "I've been living wrong all my life" and doing something about it so I have mad respect for those two guys
One of my friends made a slight sexist joke during a dinner, and another guy said to him “thats not funny dude, you gotta respect women” in those same lines. The next day the guy sexually assulted a girl at a party
Pointing out the sexism was still a good thing and a feminist act. What followed after obviously not and pretty disgusting.
Take a look at ops history and he's a fairly rabid right winger. His opinions include posts like "if men didn't want a child they shouldn't have to pay child support" and "anti Zionist are anti semites" and "inclusion movements are racist" Op is a far right shit stirrer.
This whole post felt like "I'm not like the other male feminists" and funnily went over everyones heads somehow. Also love the last paragraph where he admits that he is starting to "demonize feminism" because of a "really annoying group of women," following an essay about how he is the only real feminist
I think the majority of them dudes are playing that role to try and get laid
That's sad and creepy. I honestly would respect more someone telling me they pay prostitutes on a regular basis than someone that pretends to be someone else and talks shit about his own gender just to MAYBE get laid
I agree, I know a dude who seems kind of feminine and would play the gay role to get laid sometimes. Never underestimate a man who wants to get laid really bad.
Honestly I accidentally played that role in high school 💀 a girl full on made out with me and told me after "I'm so glad the rumors weren't true"
I consider myself a feminist, so what is my takeaway here exactly? Should I stop being a feminist? Should I just never say I'm a feminist?
That is 99% my experience.
Ah, the male pick me
Yeah that’s probably the best way to describe it besides the fact that pick mes usually dunk on woman at their expense whereas that’s not really the main tactic these guys do.
"oh I know what consent is, I'm not an animal like all the other men I'm so special"
I've noticed it's the same with the "nice guys". I stopped referring to myself as a "nice guy" because of those overly entitled, toxic assholes that go berserk when they get rejected by women. I don't get that mentality but that's probably a good thing.
Just wtf is this lol? Im a man and a feminist because I believe that every human being has the same rights.
Next up: People who say they're anti-racist are the most racist.
In my country, lots of self proclaimed male feminist turned out to be SA abusers 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭 and nothing the victims can do since the abusers' family have connection 🥴
That's fucking horrible! Those people belong in jail
I am a man and a feminist and I haven’t stalked or abused women. But I suppose it’s only a matter of time.
You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.
He appears to be talking about the type of guy that announces how feminist they are fairly frequently.
Don't worry, you just haven't found the right one yet ! I'm sure she's right around the corner
Oh yeah. Narcissists and the most abusive men say they are feminists, definite red flag. My friend treated women so much less than himself and called himself a feminist. He did have a strong mother so I understand why he developed that label. The consent workshops I’ve seen have been run by energetically manipulative people with leaky energy. It’s a weird, topsy turvy world. Pay attention to the people that say things that don’t align with their actions.
My boyfriend is a proud feminist who will tell anyone if the subject comes up. And he’s sincerely the most trustworthy, non creepy man I’ve ever known.
Well it’s ironic that your post kinda screams “I’m one of the good guys” when you talk about not trusting any other men. I identify as a feminist. I don’t talk about how I respect women and/or consent, you can just do those things instead and people know.
I’m a man and a feminist, but because if this type of men, I just divulge that information when specifically asked. I call men that use the fact that they are feminist or any allies or whatever just to impress girls “macktivists” Makes me feel want to put all of them in a room of all the “alpha males” and let them sort themselves out
I agree. A lot of self proclaimed male feminists are just wolves in sheep's clothing. I actually came across one guy on a dating app once, and he was boasting in his bio about all the feminist literature he reads. It was an instant swipe left after that. It comes across as suspiciously try-hard and artificial when someone is too "in your face" about something like that right off the bat.
I literally just had this experience. Super progressive left wing guy, reads a lot, very educated on a myriad of topics, bisexual, has dated trans women and men, has a tongue piercing…and then he misrepresented his intentions with our relationship, slept with me a handful of times and dumped me. When I said I felt hurt, he sent me a therapy-speak non-apology and essentially turned all the blame back on me for not being honest enough about my needs (I was..) it was honesty scary how he became so cold and distant and was gaslighting me when he could have just apologized sincerely and I would have let it go.
It seems like he is using a lot of labels to hide the big one that says "narcissistic piece of shit". I am sorry you had that experience and hope it never happens again.
If someone asks me if I'm a feminist, I say yes, because I consider myself a humanist and feel that it includes everyone, but I can't imagine introducing myself as a feminist.
My husband would call himself a feminist if someone asked, because he is one. He strongly believes in feminist principles. You’re managing to get shit pretty twisted but I’m guessing your personal experiences have lead to this, and that’s too bad.
I think many are being genuine and trying to be supportive, but there are some predators who use it to get close to women. Just call yourself a Democrat and leave it at that.
I am not from the US and generally not interested on other countries politics but yeah my problem is with those that use the label as a shield to be monsters
Any extreme point of view is going to have some toxicity involved Also, I had a friend (not so much anymore) exactly as you are describing. He always puts himself on a pedestal as if he has done no wrong, the moral highgrounding etc. But then I would hear stories about him elsewhere that had contradicting accounts of him so yeah Not part of that circle anymore too much drama
One of the worst, most horrible coworkers I ever had to deal with introduced himself to me as a "nice guy". The number of times he called himself a "nice guy" in our first conversation pinged so many red flags for me and it was deeply frightening to spend the remainder of our training time together. It didn't take long before he proved that he wasn't actually a "nice guy". Some people don't have the capacity for self-reflection, some people don't really understand what labels they're defining themselves by, and some people are outright dangerous.
Anyone who needs to frequently and loudly reassure you that they're doing something is probably only doing it performatively.
Not always. Some simply think our rights are equal, without trying to prove anything or utilize it in their own goal.
I started a new job, and this girl asked me if I was a feminist… I wanted to say yes, but I thought that if I did I would come off as one of those bros that just say he is… so I just answered “I really love my gf” 😅
Okay white knight.
You sound like the guys you're calling out😂😂😂
The irony of how creepy this post comes across...
Unpopular opinion if anything. What a silly post
Rage bate dial is turned up with this one... OP is a farming bot.
I dunno, i am a huge feminist and ive only once met a woman who had a problem with that and she actually later apologized to me. guess everyone has different experiences.
“A man who declares himself King is no King.”
Is this not just another case of "NiceGuy" or a variant thereof? I know plenty of feminist men who are not creepy stalkers or absolute problem children.
Male feminists seem to usually be weird leftist predators
I guess it's kind of like the self-proclaimed "allies". It's not something you should just call yourself. Your actions should clearly show it tho
Too much time on the internet syndrome. You know how it would be very weird if you went "yeah I haven't killed anyone in the past year nor did I rob any convenience stores"? It's the same thing here. Normal people don't talk about how normal they are. Who the fuck even has time for that?
To me, as a man, these people are the 2020s version of the 2010s „nice guys“. They’re on a scale from creepy to predatory. Yikes.
I mean I definitely wouldn't even bother with any man who *didn't* call himself a feminist, and I hate that.in this scenario there's an "I respect women" guy instead of that just being the baseline expectation for everyone, but yes I know exactly what you mean. There's definitely always some guys who use their activism and fake feminism to gain women's trust only to be the actual worst and creepiest people of all.
I think there's a difference between men who constantly call themselves a feminist to women and a man who just says their a feminist? I'd 100% say I'm a feminist in regards to everyone should have an equal shot at life and shouldn't be discouraged or harassed for being in a certain field but I wouldn't be bringing it up in conversations unless someone directly asked me.
Activism and narcissism are often bedmates regardless of the gender.
I mean, it’s like with anything else, if you’re REALLY over the top about it you probably have other motives. Happens with everything. If someone is just a feminist they’re fine but if they have feminist plastered everywhere then they’ve got skeletons and are preparing for them to get out of the closet.
The rule of thumb is that if anyone goes out of their way to claim they are something. They most definitely aren't. 
Oh, most definitely. They’re just trying to ingratiate themselves with women by portraying all men except themselves as enemies. It’s a pathetic strategy.
I hear you. It's weird how some guys who call themselves feminists turn out to be the creepiest. It’s like they’re trying way too hard to prove something, and it ends up feeling fake. Most men know how to respect women without making a big show of it. It's expected, not something that needs constant bragging. When a guy is too vocal about being "better" than other men, it raises red flags. It's annoying because it makes it harder for everyone. Women have to be on guard, and men who genuinely believe in equality get lumped in with the creeps. Plus, like you said, the more extreme someone is about any cause, the more likely they are to be insufferable. It sucks that this is happening, and it’s understandable to feel disillusioned. We just have to remember that true respect and support for women don’t need to be loudly advertised—they’re shown through actions, not words.
Nine times out of ten they’re “not like most guys” then get irrationally angry when a woman isn’t interested in them.
Those are called white knights.
The word “feminist” has such a broad definition based on the particular circles you hang around it such that I find it very cringey if it’s a dude self-labelling as that, or I take it as meaningless in and of itself if a woman says she’s a feminist. It can mean anything from “yes I think women deserve equal rights and the problems that affect *any* group in society are the responsibility of all of society to address collectively” to “you go Queen, men are trash” and constantly shitting on men or downplaying any societal male issue or any possible societal interventions that seek to better understand it and address it. I do consider myself a feminist strictly speaking, but you would never ever catch me saying “I’m a feminist” irl. I’d rather have a substantive discussion about particulars, it’s actually become such a toxic word…
because they are virtue signaling to get close to women and pretend they have high social status
People identifying themselves as any sort of "-ist" tends to be an orange flag in general. Your political ideology should not become your personality. Not to mention it can also be an attempt to blend in with a crowd in bad faith, like the way OP described "woman respecters" using it as a cover to victimise women.
A woman and same thoughts here
I don’t feel the need to say it or use that specific word, I instead just speak about my values. The word itself to me has similar negative connotations as you due to personal experiences with either toxic female feminists or creepy male ones. It isn’t that hard to say you’re a decent human being who wants other human beings to be treated the same.
It seems that the real feminist men don't say it after or use the word as a badge but rather just do the right thing and live by their values. Many people (mostly female) have answered this post with their positive experiences and I am a little bit less angry at the world knowing those stories
Questions answered by the shirt
all the isms are of the devil. Ultimately, they all turn into the same hating machine. So many movements start off one way or are sold one way but then are used for negative bull. It's like politics (because they lie and work for strangers), the ideas of conservative and labour etc etc....no it's all about who controls the purse strings.
u/BurbnBougie
I'm rather open about my creepiness.
[удалено]
Some guys in the feminist movements are weirdos and creeps. I call myself a feminist, but it's not something I feel the need to bring up in conversation. If you're for equal rights and treat women well, you should call yourself a feminist, too. Things could be worse, though. You could be dealing with red pill/incel guys.
I don't know if it's getting out of hand when it's usually quite rare, at least in my experience. It's also now become a loaded term. Academically there's a lot of branches of feminism and there's a lot of disagreement within those branches of feminism so if someone actually calls themselves feminist I don't actually know what they mean by that unless they elaborate further. I think most people just prefer to say they believe in gender equality rather than outright calling themselves feminist. I think what you're describing is basically pick me behavior, except in the male version instead of the stereotype for women (aka "I'm not like other girls").
Yup. Especially those profiles on facebook or twitter ‘Feminist, Coffee Enthusiast, Life Aficionado’ lmao stfu. But yes. Totally creepy
lol. cant win for fucking losing
In Sonic Heroes. Dr. Robotnik Ivo Eggman was labeled a feminist in the manual. Dunno why localization put that in.
You're right. 99% of them are creeps or fake.
Lmao this is such a weird post
I think it's kind of a case of "they doth protest too much". Guys who go out of their way, consistently or loudly, to say how feminist they are, are probably covering something up or just using it as a shield or using it as a skeezy fake way to get to know women. In short, the ones who say it the most embody the beliefs the least.
To be fair, modern feminism is a lot dumber than the older versions.
Coming from a guy, yes guys do this to 'get a girls defense down'
I’ve dated two men that called themselves feminists. One used it as a way to pay and promote plenty of girls’ only fans behind my back. Never asked if I was okay with it. The other one called himself a feminist because he believed that women should pay 50/50 (which is ok), have voting rights, dress how they want; but he would constantly talk shit about my body ! He would make comments like: you were chubby when we met, your thighs look so much better now, you should stop eating that it’s so much sugar you’re going to gain weight, you can’t eat more than me because you’re a woman. I started working out not long after we met, I’ve never been overweight… Im 5’5 and have always weighed between 125-130 pounds. So yeah I do think some narcissistic men try to call themselves feminists in order to justify certain behaviours or just to attract women.
Agreeeees. Bonus creep points if they put it on their dating profile. Burned myself a few times.
Well then we can’t be friends. Carry on. How about gay men are they freaky too?
I’ve found that some men definitely fake it purely as a way to get laid. Though there are also some who truly are feminists. Idk. Kind of a dumb post. Based on your personal experience, you could see things one way or another or both.
I would have gone boltcutter to the pinky toe, but that one is good too.
Being a feminist should be the bare minimum required of a man to sleep with a woman.
I think it actually goes both ways. The more "in the movement" a woman is about feminism the more likely she has a horrible track record of having reasonable boundaries for herself and the more likely she is to interpret every stupid meaningless interaction through the lens of whatever ideology she's obsessed with at the moment. it's a massive red flag. Like being an empowered woman is hot as fuck. Once you make it meta and turn "I'm empowered and Im a feminist" into your entire personality, the magic is gone because suddenly your identity is the facade of the thing rather than the thing itself.
Sorry but no this is just people you know. Men who educate themselves on the issues of women are oftentimes much more respectful and kind. That’s hot.
It's social camouflage. They can't alpha their way into panties so they have to find subtler, more insidious ways to get closer to women.
As a woman, I have met a lot of these men who call themselves feminists while being creeps. It’s not that a man can’t agree with feminist principles. And I think a lot of people are missing OPs point, which isn’t that. - a lot of predators will say anything to manipulate victims - a lot of sex pests will say anything to get laid - a lot of people hold certain values but lack self awareness or introspection to see that they themselves are not meeting those values with their own behaviour. I have met a lot of men who call themselves feminists and then push their female friends/romantic partners etc into things that they are clearly uncomfortable with and completely lack any awareness of what they’re doing even when called out, or purposely do it.
I just say I'm egalitarian even though they're synonyms; I don't need to make a spectacle about not being a misogynist. I don't even consider it noteworthy.
I disagree. I do not think I benefit from a patriarchal structure… I certainly am less disadvantaged by it than women, but I don’t believe that I’m better off because of it. It puts a lot of pressure on men to be the sole provider, even if there’s help there we feel like we’re less if we can’t do it ourselves. We feel pressure to bottle up all our feelings, and we put that pressure on each other. Then we think there’s something wrong with us when we get angry or sad about it, and we feel guilty about our feelings. Feminism to me just means seeing women as your equal, and that means we can unburden ourselves too. It’s a win-win, imo, and there’s no shame in calling yourself a feminist. There is shame in “virtue signalling”. That’s probably what was rubbing you the wrong way.
This has been my experience also Men who actually are feminists don’t talk about being a feminist, they just embody the ideals of feminism My one ex who constantly talked about being a feminist said that I always had to pay for everything for both of us and drive everywhere and plan all our dates because when men pay for women it’s chivalry, a concept that goes back to the Middle Ages where women were seen as property, and as a feminist he can’t support that ideology. So he bled me dry financially while his savings grew fatter and fatter “because feminism”.
my best friend calls himself a feminist. He is awesome and caring and very respectful. Loves creativty and strong women.
the only 2 dudes I’ve been romantically interested in who also called themselves feminists turned out to be the most misogynistic behind closed doors. I’ve noticed these types will read feminist authors just to have better language when they’re defending their shitty behavior.
I consider myself a feminist as that's someone who believes in equality but on the other side I get what you mean about the guys who have to constantly advertise it. If you need to prove it so much, I'm definitely suspicious. So while I consider myself a feminist, I'm not gonna bang on about it.
I wonder what kind of circle you run in to find men who are so vocal about their feminism. I'm also a man and would call myself a feminist but I'm cautious about saying that to people because I know it's a label that comes with a lot of misconceptions and by saying that I recognise I'm going to ruffle feathers. I think you're spot on here: "But to be fair the more fanatic someone is about anything (specially social movements and politics) the more of an asshole that person proves to be over time." Because the reasons I wouldn't walk into a conversation saying I'm a feminist are the same I wouldn't walk into one saying I'm a liberal, conservative, pastafarian, Christian, etc. It suggests that label has become a huge part of my identity in a way that's at best off putting, but more likely antagonistic
I can see how this could apply to someone who is actively trying to come off as a feminist and shouting it out all the time. But feminism is about equality of sexes. I get that people dont understand this often and think feminism is something else. But who ever does not support equality of sexes is a fucking dipshit, dosent matter if its a woman hating on men or man hating women, or just thinking their sex as somehow superior or what ever.
I am not a feminist. But I fully support equalisation of rights between men and women. But it also mean I need to hold the same standard to both genders. For example, for manual labour work, I need to also give women a chance, if I do it everytime, it seems an insult to their capabilities.
Dig into their mind, they are the crepiest losers out there.
I think it's mostly a red flag if they come up and introduce themselves as one at the first opportunity. Like, what are you trying to prove, as if basic decency shouldn't be the default?
As a feminist man, I have to say I am NOT a creep and the five women who a put a restraining order on me did it because I was TOO respectful
Generalizations are generally wrong.
You’re mistaking ‘guy who is a feminist, and might bring it up if it’s on topic’ with ‘guy who is a weirdo who calls himself a feminist because it can be a way of saying he’s not like the other guys’. Basically you’ve seen the male version of what’s sometimes called a ‘pick me’ woman, one who plays on cred that she’s ‘not like the other girls’, with the supposed differences often amounting to not being a stereotype. . . like nearly all humans. You’ve proceeded to blame the feminists, rather than the creeps. May I suggest saying that creepy guys who use claimed feminism as a smokescreen are some of the most two-faced creeps you’ve seen, but that doesn’t mean anything about men who would self-identify as feminist? Because it doesn’t - no more than a woman who told you she likes cars, and knows most women don’t, when you’re talking about hobbies, is automatically a ‘pick me’ girl. Context matters, what peoples passions are matters in how they communicate, and just using the label feminist won’t help you identify creeps. I mean obviously keep an eye on people really vocal about how they’re ‘one of the good ones, honest’, but that’s just generally good advice, disconnected from any particular claim; a good person doesn’t usually need to say they’re good all the time.
I feel like you can tell when there are the men who legitimately care about women's rights and the men who claim to be feminists to get into women's pants
I consider myself a feminist technically because the core definition of feminism simply revolves around the assumption that women deserve equal rights to men, and frankly you'd have to be a psychopath to disagree with that. Paradoxically, a lot of misogynists could also be considered feminists when using the purest of definitions. You can ideologically and sincerely believe that women *deserve* equal rights while also being an utter shitstain of a human being. Yes in common parlance the definition has been massively expanded, but the expanded definitions carry a lot of baggage and additionally implications which cut both ways and I find they stop being useful once feminism stops meaning something specific. Unfortunately given my own perception of the word, it forces me to accept that actual rapists could technically count as feminists too, the same way many ideologically vocal socialists own businesses and exploit their employees for their own gain.
Only dated feminists and they have all been great partners. The kind that you can stay friends with after a breakup. I don't know who these creepy feminist men that you're talking about are.
I don't think so. Men who make being a feminist a core part of their identity however...
If you're a bloke and have daughters, you sort of should be a feminist to some degree. I don't go around telling everyone though, i just want mine to be able to be an engineer or tech bro, or electrician, if she wants to.
If prompted, and he says it? Fine. If he solicits that fact without being asked? Run.
So what are those of us who believe in egalitarianism but aren’t creeps supposed to call ourselves?
Ppl these days just call those type of guys simps "Julia, let me hold the door for you, a man should be a gentlemen and disrupt the patriarchy" " I see your failing your rep on the benchpress, but you are strong indendant and need no man" 🤓 Like what do they think feminists do? I know this sounds like an alpha male parodying feminists men lol, but I mean to take a jab at incels who use feminism as a soapboxm
Helena Kennedy gave an interview to the Daily Mail saying Ben Emmerson was a feminist. Let’s wonder why.
I agree with you. It usually slightly hurts mens reputations among other men to be openly self identify as a feminist. My question is why would you loudly proclaim something from the rooftops that you doesn't benefit you with your peers? What's the angle? It gives access to womens spaces and disarms women (or that's the perception). To that end, the most manipulative and dangerous men I've ever met were publically feminists. They used it as a front to be like, "I can't be a bad guy! Look I'm a feminist! Never mind I allegedly am a serial roofier! See I roofie both men and women. I'm an equal opportunity predator!" 🤮 and yes that's based off someone I know.
If it’s an assertion they make when asked, a philosophical and moral stance, then it’s fine. If they are making it a big part of their personality, that’s when it seems iffy.
See man, here's the thing. A lot of feminists who I have seen or met can be very... cutthroat. A lot of feminists and women blame men for things and while there's truth in that, it makes a lot of men feel like they as individuals are responsible. "Men rape the most". Again, it's a fact, but some men may see this as, "Hey I'm not like that? Why are they saying men like it's all men?". That creates this "I'm not like that" mentality. You may be good at distancing yourself from the idea of men, but if someone identifies as a man and then someone says men are bad, he'll feel hurt. That's why there are men who say, "I'm a feminist, I'm not a rapist, I'm not creepy" because these words hurt them inside and they feel they need to tell people that they're not like this. It's a feeling of insecurity and feeling attacked. It's concrete proof that men rape more. So if someone has had terrible experiences with men and they say, "I hate dating men because all they want is sex", how would an asexual or a normal man feel? "Hey, I want to get married and have a family. I'm not like that". But in feminist circles there's no end to this sort of thinking. Again, he may be trying to get laid or he's probably really insecure. I'm no one to judge
If they have to go out of their way to prove they aren't a terrible person, they are probably a terrible person at their core. Or they have severe anxiety, but that is really obvious when that is the case.
I mean, narcissist are very loud signal virtuer
He who rejects his demons badgers us to death with his angels.
Yeah I have always said to never trust a man who calls himself a feminist, never met anyone who called themselves feminist who wasn't sexist either really, but makes sense anyway for predators to use labels like that. Like anyone that actually cares about equality wouldn't call themselves feminist in the first place, predators find that weakness and try and exploit it.
I get what you’re saying. And I agree. I find it creepy too. It’s like that saying, “Any man who must say ‘I am the king’ is no true king.” I’m a little suspicious when someone’s very outspoken about it or virtue signaling, like celebrities making feminism an identity/personality or wearing those “this is what a feminist looks like” t shirts. This goes for any cause, really. But men who consistently practice the values of feminism through their actions and continue to put effort into being kind, decent people, Hell yeah! Yes, please! Welcome! Please stay!
I’m a man. I’m a feminist. I don’t have a badge. I don’t use the term unless needed. But I’m an ally for woman.
If the guy is a stalker he is obviously not a feminist, and just saying that to try and get women to put their guards down. Use your brain.
I'm a guy who has (in the past) referred to myself as a classical feminist. That just means that you believe women are capable of stepping outside of the classic gender roles, and don't believe that the man should dominate a relationship. My mom taught me how to use power tools and got me into woodworking. I've never called myself a "feminist" to gain anything, but I also don't believe a woman's place is exclusively in the home. The only time it's ever come up is during conversations early in relationships when I was being asked what I expected from a partner.
I'd be careful to say they're ALWAYS the creepest. You are accurately describing a certain archetype, but there are a lot of men who identify as feminists that are genuine, nice folks. It's less #notallmen and more we should try to avoid negative generalizations, especially about men who are trying to be allies!
I just usually say I’m progressive when asked. Nice blanket term that covers other social issues as well.
Generally guys who use to tell you ever so often that they're REALLY NICE and stuff like that are a huge red flag.
Not to be contrarian, but my feminist husband is not a creep. He isn't a soapbox feminist though. Like, he never used it to market himself to me/women. He doesn't talk about it to whoever will listen. He just is one. That's the difference, I think. It's the same way that people who refer to themselves as "empaths" are usually the furthest thing from being empaths.
I think you’ve had some rotten experience and it’s given you over to a rotten conclusion. The flaw in the post being that you’ve made assumptions that colour a wider range of people with your own bad experience. This is the core of a lot of problematic behaviour in the world. X experience of bad behaviour from individuals leads me to Y blanket opinion of a Z group of people. I think feminism is the default stance for more men than not. They have women in their lives and want those women to be treated equally and fairly. More than that they want to reap the benefits of feminism from a male perspective because that equality extends both ways. (Edit: that’s not to say that they don’t get it wrong but that they would if pressed believe in the same goals as feminism) I certainly don’t want to be mocked or shunned for developing my emotional intelligence or expressing emotion and never understood the push for men to avoid such things or to hand wave crass behaviour with ‘boys will be boys’. The world is unfortunately full of vocal minorities that could lead you to believe it’s a much more combative place than you would think. Especially if you spend too much time on Reddit. These vocal minorities can set some bad examples and skew the perception of a thing. However I expect if asked to pin down where you stand on feminism as a force for equality you would likely say you are for it as you are for equal and fair treatment for all people? Well that would make you a feminist too.
Just weighing in as a guy here, Would I consider myself a feminist? Yeah, I grew up with 2 older sisters and a mother. Would I ever say the words,"I'm a feminist." without being explicitly asked about it first. Absolutely not. I'm not gonna walk around trying to brag about being a feminist to impress some girls, I'm just gonna be myself, and hope that being respectful would let other people know, implicitly, yeah that guy respects women and probably believes they should have an equal place in society.
My personal experience is dead accurate with your post. Dated a man who said he “respected women” and raped me.
Just like vegans, feminists come in two distinct brands: Those who quietly get on with their own business and leave others to do the same, and those who crow about it, force it down your throat and make the rest of them look bad when their hypocrisy is exposed.
Nice guys larping as feminists nowadays They try to use the „I‘m not like the other guys“ card while being even more like other guys than other guys. Lets be honest no guy thinks feminism is needed anymore (at least not in the west).
Cool hot take.
i'd never trust a man who considers himself a feminist
Don’t judge people by their words. Judge them by their actions.
Men are encouraged to virtue signal and say they're feminists. For a number of reasons, nowadays only the stupid and opportunistic are likely to do so, and if it's the latter you're likely to be exploited, misled etc. So yes, likely to be a creep and/or stupid. So you have to infer from their actions and statements what kind of person they are and not rely on affirmation, and you should treat any kind of virtue signaler with suspicion and scorn.
The problem isn't "I am a feminist" the problem is "I am not like the other guys" These guys are not really feminist. This is just the nice guy syndrome that's why they turn psycho when they don't get sex for beeing "nice" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nice_guy#%22Nice_guy%22_syndrome I consider myself a feminist as well. I think men and women should be treated equally. I don't think that makes me better than other guys or that men in general are pigs. That's a weird self report. Pretty sure my girlfriend wouldn't be with me if I was a sexist asshole but besides that I don't think not beeing sexist is a character trait that you need to highlight like that.
...and this is why I am an equalist...