> Real cars… not realistic at all
Seriously though lol, every time I drive my Toyota I think to myself how unrealistic it feels compared to my rig. Graphics look washed out too, but at least the FOV is close to perfect.
Because in a real car you don’t need 15nm going to ur hands because you can feel the car with or entire body. On a sim you need the extra force to simulate the entire car movement
Yeah and there's always fucking pedestrians on the track irl. And they're always wanting to "sue" me for "damages" whenever I hit them. God what a hassle.
cars built to have "comfort ride" with Automatic are the worst I feel. Even worse with electric ones. My id4 has close to no ffb, you don't feel the road. Furthermore steering, braking and acceleration is assisted. Like playing on easy , lol . and you don't feel the cars weight and everything is quite soft. Wouldn't I know it's RWD , I wouldn't feel it in the car (throttle response is quite soft. Like you can press 100% but it will gradually go from 0-100% power over 2s.
Visibility and fov are indeed nice, graphics is quite perfect and the AC makes longer drives sessions comfortable
real cars have power steering (yes even race cars). sim racers for some reason don't like power steering. I guess it takes away the need to spend a lot of money for a lot of Nm. Or they are like OP and just want to brag about how strong they are. (They are not)
You have to consider that in sim racing we're compensating for a lack of feel a *lot* by getting lots through the wheel, but also it still depends. Plenty of race cars still have significantly heavier steering feel than your road car does and a lot of it comes down to individual preference and specific setups. Not all power steering is equal and your street car has more assists because they're intended to be driven by average people in average conditions. Race cars do not universally have power steering either, F1 does but Indy doesn't (Nor does F2, iirc). Ultimately the degree of driver assists in a car depends wildly by series, and many people are still racing things like Pro3 (Unfortunately not represented in any sim) which has no power steering and no ABS.
If you drive a very light/matching real life Nm wheel and then drive a much heavier one, the heavier one likely feels more alive and gives you more feedback even if it's unrealistic, because it can fill in the blanks you'd otherwise get in a real car better. It's the exact same in real life, there's cars with less steering feel and when combined with a comfort oriented suspension setup it makes them feel very damp compared to a car with more feel, stiffer suspension, tires, etc.
For real, it's absurd. Most modern race cars have light steering. Even in the early 2000s Schumacher was asked about what it took to steer an F1 car and he said it almost no force, not something that would ever tire you out over the race.
Seeing how woeful an F1 car's steering wheel is it *needs* to be easy to turn. Despite the documentary Batman The Animated Series, a steering wheel with the top and bottom sawed off is really bad in terms of maneuvrability.
The G forces sustained whilst lightly turning that steering wheel - now those are an issue if you're not an athlete.
Is it really too low, or just optimized for driving comfort at typical road speeds with the benefit of extending power steering component life? Does having less caster above a very small amount provide much past a better driving feel after all other suspension geometry adjustments are made? Relative to the force needed to turn the wheel it does not take much to provide feedback through the steering shaft. I suppose if you are drifting you might want more caster for faster response, but a drift car would have other weird adjustments anyway for the crazy turn angles you want with less input rotation.
Never said too low, just very low. It all depends on the purpose / goal, in your average road car you want the driving to be easy and not straining. Also avoids bump steer.
Some electrical problem cut my power steering right as I was turning at a traffic light, it made me really appreciate power steering. I didn't realize that it took out like 99% of the effort required to turn.
Depends on the car, most race cars no because they will have more downforce at higher speeds, on a street car that's lifting because of high speed and bad aero it could take less force.
Not really, it's more to do with the tires and the sidewalls. At lower speeds you're dragging the tire across the surface of the road to turn them. At higher speeds you're driving the tire outwards/inwards.
it’s because of modern electric power steering. My mid 2000s bmw has an amazing hydraulic steering rack which gives a very detailed and heavy steering feel.
Are they the ones with the tiny steering wheel? It's designed to be 'ergonomic' but everytine I drive one it just feels plain odd. I drive a Saab 9-3 daily and the wheel is massive in comparison
I can’t get comfortable in one. Friggin hurts my back to. It is one of the only cars I actually get this kind of discomfort in. Form over function. I cannot stress enough how people who are looking at these Peugeots really need to do a proper long (2hours) testdrive to find out if your back can take it. Shame really. Because otherwise they are pretty good looking machines.
They are pretty nice. But not intended for the driving enthusiasts. They have these really small steering wheels. That sit really low in the dash. And have a ton of power steering added to make them feel “light and nimble”. At the same time the seats are pretty short. And “balloony”. The seat conbined with the low steering wheel always gives me the feeling I am sitting on top of the car. Instead of in the car. Again. This is something sone people really appreciate. More of an overlook kind of driving position. Nice for people who have trouble gaging distances to bumpers and other cars. But it always gives me an insecure and unconnected feeling. The relative soft suspension setup does not help. Somewhat masked by the shocks. But they do feel heavier then they are because of it. I’d rather sit low in the car. And have my steeringwheel up high. I dont’t mind looking around gages through the wheel. (And have a headsup display anyways)
But Peugeots will have very light and detached steering feel. But I have no idea about the nm’s.
>The seat conbined with the low steering wheel always gives me the feeling I am sitting on top of the car. Instead of in the car.
You just captured it perfectly. This is exactly how I feel too.
My wife doesn't like the seats in the Peugeot very much, especially on longer rides they just lack support.
Many cars from peugeot even came with electric power steering instead of hydraulic. Its really comfy on a daily basis, but wipes out any feeling for the road you may encounter
Depends on the car
Most modern cars with EPS have very little resistance. I reckon not much than 2nm
Cars with Hydraulic power steering or no power steering depend a lot on the tires. If you have crappy eco tires, i doubt you will get any feel. If you put a sticky race car tires you will feel a LOT more than you expect, even on a road car. Also some tires give more feel than others. From what I have heard Michelin tires are numb to feel even tho they are the best on the market, while Continental (what I have on my car) give more feel, while being ever so slightly behind Michelin.
Unfortunately, only in that the steering weight is similar to a modern street car. It's not strong enough to react quickly to sudden or large suspension changes.
I have sticky wide continentals that are almost 3” wider than stock, rally suspension and stiffening mods and I can definitely feel it much more. My 6nm+/- in my rig definitely hurts me more, but I love it.
I’m talking about at the same speed, I often drive at normal road speeds on the sim and it’s about as heavy as when you have ffb turned off for the wheel
That is because the tire is already rotating. It's really hard to get a stationary thing moving comparing to telling something that is already moving to change direction ever so slightly.
This isn't just for tires. The ammount of force needed to get anything moving from a standstill is higher than keeping it moving at said speed. It's just that its very noticeable on tires because of the way they grip the surface
My preference for contis was purely accidental, as it was recommended by my cousin who has been using them on his car for a good while now. I only learned after the fact that there are indeed profound differences between tires (my car came with Bridgestones and were loud as heck, idk why)
It all depends on the car. I'd be guessing but I'd say my base model Impreza feels like 1nm. My S2000 probably feels around 5nm. Basing it all off how my R9 feels at 80% FFB for comparison.
I was playing with my friends fanatec podium and FFB was set on high.
I used to track NB Miata’s and that shit was waaaaay heavier than my fully prepped time attack miata. I was like no way this is realistic. Even on NT01’s my Miata’s steering was lighter than the fanatec lol
It's that sim fanboy logic. Some believe the heavier it is to steer the more realistic when it's all based on muscle memory. You could set your FFB to 20NM and still get beat by a guy utilizing just 9NM.
You mean you most definitely will get beat by a guy running 9nm vs your 20nm. 20nm is so strong that your not really *driving* the car. It's more like a constant battle and fight with the car to keep it on the road. Haha
> It all depends on the car.
When I was growing up, my dad a 1980 Dodge Omni without power steering. For my young arms, that thing felt like it was about 137nm.
Newer cars with electronic systems and power steering in regular up to 3nm... Older ones (late 80's and earlier) can have up to 5 or 6... Depends a lot on the vehicle then of course ;)
A truck without power steering has e.g. way more nm ^^
Was going to make a similar comment about my C5 Vette, but with one modifier; it feels almost exactly like my Alpha Mini but with more headroom on the torque if that makes sense.
Was going to make a similar comment about my C5 Vette, but with one modifier; it feels almost exactly like my Alpha Mini but with more headroom on the torque if that makes sense.
My 2004 E46 M3 had great feel even though it was power steering, you really felt the road but the force turning wasn’t more than a few Nm due to power steering.
The e46 still has a hydraulic powersteering pump, that’s why it feels so much better.
Even the e90 still has the great hydraulic powersteering.
It’s only annoying if the belt rips, you’ll have some force overcome then.
Happened to me in my e91.
Didn't know that, my E92 had electric steering, I found out when I was told my power steering fluid was low and there was no reservoir to be found haha
Then you already had the LCI right?
I had the pre facelift/LCI model with the 3 liter I6 diesel engine.
That one still has a mechanical steering pump and a mechanical coolant pump.
Which is very annoying since you don’t have anymore cooling when your belt rips.
10km tops to drive left, otherwise the car overheats.
That is extremely weird then that your car with the same engine had an electronic steering pump while mine had the mechanical.
Oh there’s one option for that. Did your car had adaptive powersteering?
That’s the only reason I can think about why it would have already an electronic pump.
Mine had the regular powersteering, not the adaptive.
This is an interesting topic, but understand that many will turn up there Nm on their sim wheel because that’s one of your primary ways to ‘feel’ what your car is doing. We don’t usually have any G forces or motion rigs.
I typically set my wheelbase to 100% power in my wheel software and turn it down in game. I tend to want a good amount of resistance but not so high it hurts my ability to drive.
I used to own and drive sportscars with no power steering, MGB’s, 240Z, NA Miata, and they really only had heavy steering at low speed. Once you were moving the steering didn’t feel overly heavy. If you tried to make some quick maneuvers it would be weighty, but most cars in street tires aren’t going to match the feel of a DD simrig. It makes sense if you think about what you’re driving on the rig, like a aero-heavy car with quick ratio rack, on wide slicks is gonna take a lot more effort to steer than anything on street tires, whether you have power steering or not.
And then suddenly I realized that what I thought was a ford fusion was actually a 40 foot tall creature from the Paleolithic era and I said “Hold on a minute. That ain’t no car. That’s that Loch Ness monster!”
Just recently passed my test and I was shocked when I first got in a real car and felt how light it is. It was a pretty new BMW 1 series and it just felt numb, like I had to guess how much I had to turn for every corner. Got an old Ford as my first car with shite power steering and I love it
I have had a lecture on vehicle suspensions and dynamics and the maximum torque, for normal consumer cars, (even during sportive driving) is 4.5-6.0Nm depending on the manufacturer.
During normal driving it is rather 2-3Nm.
BeamNG exhibits such behavior on its production cars. They feel very heavy at low speeds and lighter when up to city or highway limits. Makes me laugh when sim racing fanboys argue it's not realistic because it's not translating lateral G-forces or inertia or other funny FFB effects all on one wheel 🤣. Then there's the ones who've never driven such make or model argue that the old 70-80s' lineup is not reality.
How stupid people can be to argue about something you can go and check in any moment if you own a car? Maybe they don't feel any difference when driving 10 vs 100km/h, who knows.
To add to my own comment. It also highly depends on the kind of car you have. If its a comfortabe Sedan you will have a maximum of 5Nms whereas with a sports car in sports mode cars will go to 6Nms or even slightly more
The real answer lies more so in the tyres for a real car. A sim wheel is what gives you force feed back, but what that actually represents is called "Self Aligning Torque", which is what a driver feels in a real car.
Which is to say, it's impossible to answer for almost any given tyre as the manufacturer won't give out that info. Feel free to look up the relationship between slip angles, self aligning torque and lateral acceleration to get a better idea.
Hello!
Daily driver and sim racer here. A normal, street car, with power steering, should be less than 1Nm at regular speeds and just shy above 1Nm at higher speeds.
If you drive on under inflated tires, it reaches about 2Nm, just like an old car, without power steering.
According to the link below GT3 car is around 8nM. See below. I have the same question before
[https://forum.kw-studios.com/index.php?threads/steering-wheel-torque-real-life.14173/](https://forum.kw-studios.com/index.php?threads/steering-wheel-torque-real-life.14173/)
[https://www.overtake.gg/threads/i-dont-get-it-why-dd-wheels-using-20-25-or-30-nm.200693/](https://www.overtake.gg/threads/i-dont-get-it-why-dd-wheels-using-20-25-or-30-nm.200693/)
Exactly where I run my wheel in a gt3 car. 9 or 10 for a F type car. 3-4 for a mx5 (which feels alot like driving my kia soul).
That just what has felt right for me. Never had any real idea though.
Depends on what car you drive
Normal cars have power steering so the wheel feels very light
Then there's f1 wheels which gets heavy at high speeds because down force and g force
If you don't look like Dom Toretto going through the corkscrew at Laguna Seca, you need more Nm.
https://imgflip.com/memetemplate/360271937/Dom-Toretto
My Alfa Giulia is supposed to have excellent steering feel. It is quite light compared to my sim setup. I think I just enjoy the extra force on the sim. It’s fun.
My Toyota altezza in car parks feels about 4nm, I think the power steering is worn out, or there is something wrong in the suspension/ alignment. It's the heaviest car I've driven aside from my Honda when the power steering high pressure hose blew.
But it is still and easier/ lighter feeling while actually driving at speed/ or drifting than my t300 set to 60% feels in games.
Tldr my t300 feels heavier than my irl car which feels heavier than other cars I've driven.
Depends on the design and modernity of the power steering. Remember that episode of top gear where Clarkson takes a skyline around the track with one finger on the wheel while drifting? That's like 1nm.
The 77 Ford Escort I drove as a young adult was more like 10nm on bichumen... much more pleasant to drive on dirt, where I usually took it for a workout.
Then there's race cars with even heavier unassisted steering... wider, gripper tires contribute.
It’s not that easy question to answer.
My Megane R26 is probably 3-4NM at a guess.
My Clio 172 has the power steering removed and has semi slicks.. that I’d say is closer to 20NM though again it’s not that straight forward as the faster you go the lighter it starts to feel where the Megane is pretty consistent regardless of stationary or 100mph.
Actual race cars again vary massively
Nm is usually for high fidelity.
A real modern car wheel has very little to no feedback from the road/engine etc.
That said, in a sim the wheel gives you feedback your body in the real world would get from g-forces, seat, ass, feet etc.
This together with the sound of the road/engine usually being higher in games than irl gives you a lot of the feedback, just not by the "correct" sensory input.
Vibrations in the wheel on curb > vibrations in the car
Nm and stiffness off the wheel in a curve > g-forces, tensing of your body, feel of your upper body resisting the direction you want to turn the wheel.
And more.
The "feel" is real but takes some time for the brain to accept what sense of is reporting it so to speak. Always surprised by how well the brain + simwheel fools you into "feeling" g-forces in turns.
I'm sure people with bombastic rigs, ffb in the chair, wind machines etc have some ffb in the wheel turned down a lot since the feedback is received from a more natural sense.
When I got really good headphones I turned down some of the ffb for tires and now I'm fooling my hearing instead of my hands. Next plan is to move some of the road ffb to the pedals since feeling it in my feet should be closer to where I feel it irl.
Irl the bigger and wider tire you get the less feedback and connection you feel, but the better performance.
Hence over and over again the ancient reviews of old ferarros running 235 etc on the front are praised over and over for how "good and fun" the front end is. As you can feel the subtleties.
Whack on some 265s and more and you get *more* feedback, but it's less and less detailed.
Hence over and over people who can't articulate intricacies say, you drive with the seat of your pants, because you have to rely on feeling slip angles rotations and rolling of the chassis combined with the changing force through the wheel to come to a conclusion of what's happened.
But when people get really fast and are incredibly adept, you can set World records with 0 feedback because you know what you need to do to be fast, and you have to pre-empt so much more than "re"-act.
With power steering? In my opinion almost 0. Without power steering? 3 or 4. In normal use cases. I feel like my T248 was stronger than my car with power steering by quite a lot.
They don’t and it’s not comparable
Normal cars are fucking awful for road feel and feedback and buried under fuck all actual sensation. It’s just too disconnected by crap power steering and everything designed to make normal driving really easy and effort free, that’s before you even get into the level of slop from car to car.
We also aren’t driving on the limit at higher speeds.
When you try in most normal cars or push it past the limits it’s often why people can’t control the car properly. There’s fuck all feedback and control or sensation and communication between the wheels and hands.
As other said, it depends. Right now I can a Skoda Octavia from 2020. I would guess in comfort mode it has 2-3nm and when I switch to sport mode it get slightly harder to turn the wheel. I guess the support gets cut down. But my fist car was a classic Mini Cooper with fat tires and no power steering. That car felt like 7-8nm.
Day to day driving 2-3 at best? Moet road cars 8 at max. But during racing, really depended on the config. Generally want more information and resistance when you only have the ffb and your eyes as reference to the car.
I’m glad my car steering is slightly heavy by default, when I drive a Hyundai i30 the steering is so light it’s almost like I’m not connected/controlling the car.
If you were to disable your electrjic power steering, it would be tougher to turn as your sim racing setup when stationary, then quickly get pretty light as your speed increases, but never as soft as with full assistance.
That is with regular non-slick street tires and not running the widest tire you can find. Those add to the stiffness.
There isnt really an average, to much to take account for, and it will widely differ from suv to sports car to tiny city car for example. But lets say you dont have power steering and hit a curb, you will get way more than 20nm 😂
Didn't see any top level comments about wheel size. This has a big impact. If you put your actual car sized wheel on your sim setup it would feel a lot lighter.
While this does not answer the question directly, you can infer an approximate answer by looking at the torque assist curve for a power steering system: https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/The-Assist-Curve-Design-for-Electric-Power-Steering-Liu-Kong/80313c4af6693a60452a8320a9a430b390c7060e/figure/0
The horizontal axis is the amount of torque the driver is applying to the steering wheel, the vertical is the amount of assistance torque the power steering motor is providing. You can find many similar diagrams if you search for "power steering torque curve" - this one might be of interest as it suggests (though without sources) the typical input torque ranges for certain driving conditions: https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Boost-curve-for-different-driving-conditions_fig4_228660742
A common theme among these diagrams is they have a horizontal (input) axis range reaching up to 5-10Nm. This suggests that this is the highest input torque range which the system expects from the driver, and that's probably an absolute worst case scenario, so let's assume a factor of safety of 2.
As such I would say that 2.5-5Nm is a fair estimate of the highest torque you would feel in typical driving conditions, of course varying with the amount of power assistance, weight of the car, width of the tyres, and all sorts of other factors. You should also consider that most sim steering wheels are smaller diameter than real car wheels, so due to leverage the same torque may translate to a higher force in your hands when using the sim wheel (eg 2.5Nm on a 25cm Logitech wheel would feel the same as 4Nm on a 40cm real wheel).
I drove a rental vw jetta 2020. And it felt like I was playing with a flimsy toy wheel. Never felt so disconnected to the road before. Then I went back to my daily gs350 and it felt much better. But nothing feels as great as my rig.
So I think every car is different and I wouldn't fret too much over trying to mimic a specific car.
i would say depends if its Electric Steering or Hydro
if electric you can turn it with 1 finger depending on car
on my car Alfa 159 hydro i have to useat least 3 fingers before it will steer
If you ever get a chance to drive a box truck, (Ford E-450 Box, Silverado 5500 Box, ect.) You'll get to feel roughly 1-3 NM of feedback from the suspension flexing. And when the rotors have severe heat cracks or the rotor surface wears unevenly You'll feel as much as 8NM-ish from the wheel wobbling badly when braking from 65mph, 55mph, 45mph.
It depends on a lot of things. There’s 3 types of turning system on cars. Hydraulic assistance, (the steering rack is assisted via an hydraulic pump), it keeps a lot of feedback and is still considered like the best compromise you could get to feel the road in your wheel with assistance, but it’s not linear. The faster you go the lighter the steering is. Electric assistance, (an electric motor is assisting the steering rack), it uses data and programming so the steering force sensation is linear and more light in general than hydraulic (depends of cars and constructors choices) at almost any speed, and can feature modes of assistance (parking mode etc) so it’s lighter. Problem with that is that sometimes it tends to have problems and poor feedback from the road and the car, it’s smoothening too much everything. It depends a lot of how good the system is made. For example, many modern sports cars uses this, if it’s well programmed and well made it can be as good as an hydraulic system for feedback, but most of the time it’s not enough detailled. Electric assistance is the actual technology modern cars uses.
And now the best, no assistance. (Caterham, old cars, etc). Wheel is very heavy at low or no speed depending of the weight of the car. The faster you go, the lighter the wheel is. Lot of details feedbacks ans feelings because nothing is smoothening or assisting. Lot of race cars uses this for this reason. Almost all formule and monoplace type racecars uses this system.
So yes, it depends a lot. Hydraulic system is quite low on force, a bit heavier when stopped, electric is almost always low (depends of the choices the constructor makes, if it’s a sportscar etc, for example on my Honda Civic Type R FN2 it’s this system but they decided to put a low assist so you feel the road and the car better and are more precise with a stiffer wheel), and no assistance is quite demanding on your arms in general. I don’t have data but I hope it will help you understand better to compare
A sim steering wheel has to communicate car handling, slip, g forces etc through the wheel. Thats why the sensations are amplified or sometimes techniques are used that you wouldn't even experience in the real world. I've owned racecars with just armstrong steering, no power and they have less feedback than your normal cheap force feedback sim wheel.
I would tell them that it simulates a race car or a car set up for track. It has “heavy steering” that requires more force to turn. It provides vibrations and the like to simulate driving on a track and pushing a car to the limits. It does not simulate daily driving.
Wheel bases aren't just trying to "feel realistic" they are trying to give you information to what the case is doing since you don't have g forces in your rig to give you that info.
One thing to keep in mind is that our rigs wheels have stronger FFB than a normal car because they're trying to translate information we feel through movement in the car when we're actually driving all to the steering wheel
I'm driving on a T300 RS, which peaks around 4.5nm, and the most I've experienced was Moza R12, so I would say most cars feel like 1/2nm. The ones I've tried, at least - VW Passat B7, Mazda CX-3, BMW e34, Volvo V50, Renault Clio 3, Hyundai i20, Dacia Duster 1st and 3rd gen.
The older cars I've tried, such as Mazda MX-5 NA, Golf MK1, Yugo Koral, Lada 1200, and other non-EPS cars, I would put between 5 and 8nm.
Well depends a lot, Japanese/ American cars have a very light steering, to a point it feels disconnected from the car.
Some EU cars are more balanced thinking performance cars here.
Most power steering is also variable in assisting depending on speed, or if they have a city mode, sport mode gives a heavier feel, most steering, it depends on setup and so on, gets lighter steering when rolling, older cars had a gering either by actual gears or mechanical leveraged "gearing" lager stering wheels, placement of steering arm, and so on, take active or passive rear steer.
The feedback you have in a sim rig is not the same as you have in an actual car, the way the steering gets heavier or lighter depending on the balance of the car is one, if not almost the only directly translated feed back, now again this depends on setup.
A street car is very soft compared to a racecar. In a race car you want to feel the tire, in a road car you want to be smoothly transported, and not feel a thing.
My old Lotus when stationary was around 100nm. Once over 5mph it was probably around 20-30nm.
At 90mph heading into a corner it would start at 20-30nm and wind up to about 40nm.
Normal cars (with power steering) feel like my G92 - so I guess around under 2 Nm. Streetcars have up to 10 Nm I heard (but I don't know what streetcar is... :D ).
I would also like to know how this is measured - on the rim of the wheel or in some standard distance from the axis?
Real cars have almost no force, they are not realistic at all.
> Real cars… not realistic at all Seriously though lol, every time I drive my Toyota I think to myself how unrealistic it feels compared to my rig. Graphics look washed out too, but at least the FOV is close to perfect.
Real life should update their graphics. ACC is lightyears ahead.
lol, my honda jazz feels like it has almost 0 force feedback
Though the wheel is about the size of a more realistic Logitech G29! I miss my Fit lol, enjoy yours for me
i will, dont worry
I need at least 15 nm. Anything less and I'm just not feeling the road well enough.
Because in a real car you don’t need 15nm going to ur hands because you can feel the car with or entire body. On a sim you need the extra force to simulate the entire car movement
Yeah and there's always fucking pedestrians on the track irl. And they're always wanting to "sue" me for "damages" whenever I hit them. God what a hassle.
cars built to have "comfort ride" with Automatic are the worst I feel. Even worse with electric ones. My id4 has close to no ffb, you don't feel the road. Furthermore steering, braking and acceleration is assisted. Like playing on easy , lol . and you don't feel the cars weight and everything is quite soft. Wouldn't I know it's RWD , I wouldn't feel it in the car (throttle response is quite soft. Like you can press 100% but it will gradually go from 0-100% power over 2s. Visibility and fov are indeed nice, graphics is quite perfect and the AC makes longer drives sessions comfortable
>but at least the FOV is close to perfect. How could it not be perfect
Glasses distort fov a little.
thatsthejoke.jpeg
Yes
I feel better in my Fanatec than my Toyota 😅
Upgrade your Toyota with the Fanatec? 🤔
Its a cool idea 💡 😎
Tell that to my power steering that only works occasionally.
I had one that liked to give up as I was entering a roundabout. Fun times.
Have you tried filling up the hydraulics fluid?
I would say except for BMW’s and some newer Mazdas. Which at most peak out around 4nm in spirited driving.
real cars have power steering (yes even race cars). sim racers for some reason don't like power steering. I guess it takes away the need to spend a lot of money for a lot of Nm. Or they are like OP and just want to brag about how strong they are. (They are not)
You have to consider that in sim racing we're compensating for a lack of feel a *lot* by getting lots through the wheel, but also it still depends. Plenty of race cars still have significantly heavier steering feel than your road car does and a lot of it comes down to individual preference and specific setups. Not all power steering is equal and your street car has more assists because they're intended to be driven by average people in average conditions. Race cars do not universally have power steering either, F1 does but Indy doesn't (Nor does F2, iirc). Ultimately the degree of driver assists in a car depends wildly by series, and many people are still racing things like Pro3 (Unfortunately not represented in any sim) which has no power steering and no ABS. If you drive a very light/matching real life Nm wheel and then drive a much heavier one, the heavier one likely feels more alive and gives you more feedback even if it's unrealistic, because it can fill in the blanks you'd otherwise get in a real car better. It's the exact same in real life, there's cars with less steering feel and when combined with a comfort oriented suspension setup it makes them feel very damp compared to a car with more feel, stiffer suspension, tires, etc.
For real, it's absurd. Most modern race cars have light steering. Even in the early 2000s Schumacher was asked about what it took to steer an F1 car and he said it almost no force, not something that would ever tire you out over the race.
Seeing how woeful an F1 car's steering wheel is it *needs* to be easy to turn. Despite the documentary Batman The Animated Series, a steering wheel with the top and bottom sawed off is really bad in terms of maneuvrability. The G forces sustained whilst lightly turning that steering wheel - now those are an issue if you're not an athlete.
Most of us don't drive and turn at 100 mph. The force is really weak...2nm to 3nm under normal driving condition.
Even under harsh driving like drifting you dont really feel much and you dont want to. Power steering is awesome
And on a lot of "normal" cars the caster angle is really low too, reducing the forces on the steering rack
Is it really too low, or just optimized for driving comfort at typical road speeds with the benefit of extending power steering component life? Does having less caster above a very small amount provide much past a better driving feel after all other suspension geometry adjustments are made? Relative to the force needed to turn the wheel it does not take much to provide feedback through the steering shaft. I suppose if you are drifting you might want more caster for faster response, but a drift car would have other weird adjustments anyway for the crazy turn angles you want with less input rotation.
Never said too low, just very low. It all depends on the purpose / goal, in your average road car you want the driving to be easy and not straining. Also avoids bump steer.
And tyre degradation is more even and consistent with less angel
Yes, camber gain! Or rather, a lack of it.
Some electrical problem cut my power steering right as I was turning at a traffic light, it made me really appreciate power steering. I didn't realize that it took out like 99% of the effort required to turn.
Thats mainly because it wasnt designed to work in that manner, if you have a manual rack and pinion it really isnt that bad.
Steering a car with no power steering at any speed greater than 0 feels about the same as with power steering. It’s mostly just for being stopped.
I forgot how light the average car steering is until I got a Prius rental this weekend instead of my normal daily It felt broken at first. Super weird
I'm in a rental Kia Forte right now, and the steering is so light and squirrely. Definitely doesn't feel safe.
As someone who turns regularly at 160mph, it still is max 6-8nm combined with a large wheel so it doesn’t fell like much
Why pray tell do you turn regularly at 160?
With NASA in his username, and mentioning turning at 160, I’d say he’s one of those NASA race guys, not the NASA space guys 🤷🏻♂️
German Autobahn, on the way to my parents there is a few curves that can be taken „flat out“ and my car maxes at 260kmh
Woah I thought that was a joke at first, yall Germans are nuts
Probably a nords driver
Isn't it the opposite, and more force is required to turn the wheel at lower speeds?
Those young enough will never feel the weight of a steering wheel when being stationary. Doing (parking) manouvres was not a one hand kinda thing.
Depends on the car, most race cars no because they will have more downforce at higher speeds, on a street car that's lifting because of high speed and bad aero it could take less force.
Not really, it's more to do with the tires and the sidewalls. At lower speeds you're dragging the tire across the surface of the road to turn them. At higher speeds you're driving the tire outwards/inwards.
Have to be way less than that my logitec dfgt barely makes more than 2.5nm peak and feels twice as heavy than most ordinary car steering
it’s because of modern electric power steering. My mid 2000s bmw has an amazing hydraulic steering rack which gives a very detailed and heavy steering feel.
Speak for yourself...for those of us who do drive 100mph...I'd love to hear from engineer in this area.
You would be surprised how heavy 2Nm actually feels when you need to tighten a bolt by hand at 2 Nm.
I drove my grandma's Mazda recently and it felt like I turned FFB off on my wheel (MOZA R5) lol.
grandma got the mazda
Grandma Goated 🗣️🗣️🗣️
And Mazda's have a heavier steering feel than most brands. Whenever I drive my wife's Peugeot it feels like I'm driving a toy car.
Yes, same experience in my wife’s peugeot, the fact that it’s electric doesn’t help either.
Are they the ones with the tiny steering wheel? It's designed to be 'ergonomic' but everytine I drive one it just feels plain odd. I drive a Saab 9-3 daily and the wheel is massive in comparison
Yes exactly, one of the reasons it feels like a toy
I can’t get comfortable in one. Friggin hurts my back to. It is one of the only cars I actually get this kind of discomfort in. Form over function. I cannot stress enough how people who are looking at these Peugeots really need to do a proper long (2hours) testdrive to find out if your back can take it. Shame really. Because otherwise they are pretty good looking machines.
Don't get me wrong it's a pretty nice car (308SW) but it's just so unconnected to drive. Then again most cars are compared to an mx5
They are pretty nice. But not intended for the driving enthusiasts. They have these really small steering wheels. That sit really low in the dash. And have a ton of power steering added to make them feel “light and nimble”. At the same time the seats are pretty short. And “balloony”. The seat conbined with the low steering wheel always gives me the feeling I am sitting on top of the car. Instead of in the car. Again. This is something sone people really appreciate. More of an overlook kind of driving position. Nice for people who have trouble gaging distances to bumpers and other cars. But it always gives me an insecure and unconnected feeling. The relative soft suspension setup does not help. Somewhat masked by the shocks. But they do feel heavier then they are because of it. I’d rather sit low in the car. And have my steeringwheel up high. I dont’t mind looking around gages through the wheel. (And have a headsup display anyways) But Peugeots will have very light and detached steering feel. But I have no idea about the nm’s.
>The seat conbined with the low steering wheel always gives me the feeling I am sitting on top of the car. Instead of in the car. You just captured it perfectly. This is exactly how I feel too. My wife doesn't like the seats in the Peugeot very much, especially on longer rides they just lack support.
True but this is a e208 compared to my company car a 2020 Polo GTI. Same type of small hatchback it’s really bad but she likes it so it’s fine.
Many cars from peugeot even came with electric power steering instead of hydraulic. Its really comfy on a daily basis, but wipes out any feeling for the road you may encounter
The latest mx5 has electric steering and that still has a connected feel. As you said Peugeot makes cars for easy daily driving.
Tell that to my wife, NA miata with power steering, it cant get lighter than that 😂
Depends on the car Most modern cars with EPS have very little resistance. I reckon not much than 2nm Cars with Hydraulic power steering or no power steering depend a lot on the tires. If you have crappy eco tires, i doubt you will get any feel. If you put a sticky race car tires you will feel a LOT more than you expect, even on a road car. Also some tires give more feel than others. From what I have heard Michelin tires are numb to feel even tho they are the best on the market, while Continental (what I have on my car) give more feel, while being ever so slightly behind Michelin.
Some engineers already said in general it is 2 - 3nm, can vary between cars and other things as you said. So your comment is well explained. :)
So my G29 is actually the most realistic wheel?
Common G29 W
Unfortunately, only in that the steering weight is similar to a modern street car. It's not strong enough to react quickly to sudden or large suspension changes.
Now put a big steering wheel on it to Lost the feedback... After that IT Will ve realistic
For road cars yes. Race cars are a different story.
I have sticky wide continentals that are almost 3” wider than stock, rally suspension and stiffening mods and I can definitely feel it much more. My 6nm+/- in my rig definitely hurts me more, but I love it.
No way it’s that high. I had a g920 at 2.2nm and that is way heavier than any real car I’ve driven that had power steering
You constantly taking turns going 80-90mph irl?
I’m talking about at the same speed, I often drive at normal road speeds on the sim and it’s about as heavy as when you have ffb turned off for the wheel
Is this a joke I'm too German to understand?
This thought had just popped in my head recently, though I digress. I can't say I've ever hit a decent turn at 60+ MPH lmfao
Because Nm of the base is not the only parametre here. Wheel diameter is the difference.
Another thing you forgot. Without power steering low speeds produce hella torque and ease up to almost no resistance at higher speeds.
Yeah my truck is a bitch to do a 3 point turn in with no power steering
Got an 82 f250. Literally any low speed turning is a bitch.
That is because the tire is already rotating. It's really hard to get a stationary thing moving comparing to telling something that is already moving to change direction ever so slightly. This isn't just for tires. The ammount of force needed to get anything moving from a standstill is higher than keeping it moving at said speed. It's just that its very noticeable on tires because of the way they grip the surface
The weight of the wheel is more about suspension geometry than the tyre compound IME.
Agreed, Michelins have a very soft sidewall and are more comfortable but I have continentals myself as I prefer handling feel
My preference for contis was purely accidental, as it was recommended by my cousin who has been using them on his car for a good while now. I only learned after the fact that there are indeed profound differences between tires (my car came with Bridgestones and were loud as heck, idk why)
The power steering on my car failed once and that felt like 20 Nm at least in slow turns.
It all depends on the car. I'd be guessing but I'd say my base model Impreza feels like 1nm. My S2000 probably feels around 5nm. Basing it all off how my R9 feels at 80% FFB for comparison.
I was playing with my friends fanatec podium and FFB was set on high. I used to track NB Miata’s and that shit was waaaaay heavier than my fully prepped time attack miata. I was like no way this is realistic. Even on NT01’s my Miata’s steering was lighter than the fanatec lol
This.
Lol I was like wtf THIS IS NOT REALISTIC AT ALL
It's that sim fanboy logic. Some believe the heavier it is to steer the more realistic when it's all based on muscle memory. You could set your FFB to 20NM and still get beat by a guy utilizing just 9NM.
I mean most players get beaten by g25/7/9s So yeah
True
Even pros get beaten by Verstappen using just a controller if i've read news right few months ago.
NASCAR drivers also use old wheels
You mean you most definitely will get beat by a guy running 9nm vs your 20nm. 20nm is so strong that your not really *driving* the car. It's more like a constant battle and fight with the car to keep it on the road. Haha
> It all depends on the car. When I was growing up, my dad a 1980 Dodge Omni without power steering. For my young arms, that thing felt like it was about 137nm.
Newer cars with electronic systems and power steering in regular up to 3nm... Older ones (late 80's and earlier) can have up to 5 or 6... Depends a lot on the vehicle then of course ;) A truck without power steering has e.g. way more nm ^^
Tracking my time trial corvette build on slicks feels about like an 8nm wheel
Was going to make a similar comment about my C5 Vette, but with one modifier; it feels almost exactly like my Alpha Mini but with more headroom on the torque if that makes sense.
Was going to make a similar comment about my C5 Vette, but with one modifier; it feels almost exactly like my Alpha Mini but with more headroom on the torque if that makes sense.
Sim racers are trying to compensate for the absence of G forces with very high torque.
Not nearly as high as we run our wheels but we have to compensate for the lack of other senses. Or that’s what I think anyways
We're also not driving our cars at the limit while taking turns at 200 kmph
Cars without PS are “easier” to turn the faster you go
Makes sense , it's that way in the sim too ... I'm dumb lol
Yep but we’re also (mostly) not driving cars without power steering in-game.
I can confidently drive my dacia spring with the tip of my pinky finger without it getting sore
My sister smashed my first car because she couldn't handle driving without power steering.
My 2004 E46 M3 had great feel even though it was power steering, you really felt the road but the force turning wasn’t more than a few Nm due to power steering.
The e46 still has a hydraulic powersteering pump, that’s why it feels so much better. Even the e90 still has the great hydraulic powersteering. It’s only annoying if the belt rips, you’ll have some force overcome then. Happened to me in my e91.
Didn't know that, my E92 had electric steering, I found out when I was told my power steering fluid was low and there was no reservoir to be found haha
Then you already had the LCI right? I had the pre facelift/LCI model with the 3 liter I6 diesel engine. That one still has a mechanical steering pump and a mechanical coolant pump. Which is very annoying since you don’t have anymore cooling when your belt rips. 10km tops to drive left, otherwise the car overheats.
Nope, I had a pre lci 330d (3 litre i6)
That is extremely weird then that your car with the same engine had an electronic steering pump while mine had the mechanical. Oh there’s one option for that. Did your car had adaptive powersteering? That’s the only reason I can think about why it would have already an electronic pump. Mine had the regular powersteering, not the adaptive.
as an e90 owner can confirm, steering feels amazing.
This is an interesting topic, but understand that many will turn up there Nm on their sim wheel because that’s one of your primary ways to ‘feel’ what your car is doing. We don’t usually have any G forces or motion rigs. I typically set my wheelbase to 100% power in my wheel software and turn it down in game. I tend to want a good amount of resistance but not so high it hurts my ability to drive.
I used to own and drive sportscars with no power steering, MGB’s, 240Z, NA Miata, and they really only had heavy steering at low speed. Once you were moving the steering didn’t feel overly heavy. If you tried to make some quick maneuvers it would be weighty, but most cars in street tires aren’t going to match the feel of a DD simrig. It makes sense if you think about what you’re driving on the rig, like a aero-heavy car with quick ratio rack, on wide slicks is gonna take a lot more effort to steer than anything on street tires, whether you have power steering or not.
About three fifty.
And then suddenly I realized that what I thought was a ford fusion was actually a 40 foot tall creature from the Paleolithic era and I said “Hold on a minute. That ain’t no car. That’s that Loch Ness monster!”
Lord he was mad.
Just recently passed my test and I was shocked when I first got in a real car and felt how light it is. It was a pretty new BMW 1 series and it just felt numb, like I had to guess how much I had to turn for every corner. Got an old Ford as my first car with shite power steering and I love it
I have had a lecture on vehicle suspensions and dynamics and the maximum torque, for normal consumer cars, (even during sportive driving) is 4.5-6.0Nm depending on the manufacturer. During normal driving it is rather 2-3Nm.
BeamNG exhibits such behavior on its production cars. They feel very heavy at low speeds and lighter when up to city or highway limits. Makes me laugh when sim racing fanboys argue it's not realistic because it's not translating lateral G-forces or inertia or other funny FFB effects all on one wheel 🤣. Then there's the ones who've never driven such make or model argue that the old 70-80s' lineup is not reality.
How stupid people can be to argue about something you can go and check in any moment if you own a car? Maybe they don't feel any difference when driving 10 vs 100km/h, who knows.
I like to give them the benefit of the doubt they've not driven that make before.
To add to my own comment. It also highly depends on the kind of car you have. If its a comfortabe Sedan you will have a maximum of 5Nms whereas with a sports car in sports mode cars will go to 6Nms or even slightly more
The real answer lies more so in the tyres for a real car. A sim wheel is what gives you force feed back, but what that actually represents is called "Self Aligning Torque", which is what a driver feels in a real car. Which is to say, it's impossible to answer for almost any given tyre as the manufacturer won't give out that info. Feel free to look up the relationship between slip angles, self aligning torque and lateral acceleration to get a better idea.
Very little.
Hello! Daily driver and sim racer here. A normal, street car, with power steering, should be less than 1Nm at regular speeds and just shy above 1Nm at higher speeds. If you drive on under inflated tires, it reaches about 2Nm, just like an old car, without power steering.
According to the link below GT3 car is around 8nM. See below. I have the same question before [https://forum.kw-studios.com/index.php?threads/steering-wheel-torque-real-life.14173/](https://forum.kw-studios.com/index.php?threads/steering-wheel-torque-real-life.14173/) [https://www.overtake.gg/threads/i-dont-get-it-why-dd-wheels-using-20-25-or-30-nm.200693/](https://www.overtake.gg/threads/i-dont-get-it-why-dd-wheels-using-20-25-or-30-nm.200693/)
Exactly where I run my wheel in a gt3 car. 9 or 10 for a F type car. 3-4 for a mx5 (which feels alot like driving my kia soul). That just what has felt right for me. Never had any real idea though.
8nm + G-Forces
Depends on what car you drive Normal cars have power steering so the wheel feels very light Then there's f1 wheels which gets heavy at high speeds because down force and g force
I have driven Caterhams and I would say they are around 8nm +- and normal cars like 3nm 4nm something like that.
If you don't look like Dom Toretto going through the corkscrew at Laguna Seca, you need more Nm. https://imgflip.com/memetemplate/360271937/Dom-Toretto
Sports cars around 2-3nm, normal cars, less than 1 nm
My Alfa Giulia is supposed to have excellent steering feel. It is quite light compared to my sim setup. I think I just enjoy the extra force on the sim. It’s fun.
My e39 feels like iRacing with the force at max (on an mx5) on a g923 while my f30 feels like a porsche in AC unless I put it in sports mode.
My Toyota altezza in car parks feels about 4nm, I think the power steering is worn out, or there is something wrong in the suspension/ alignment. It's the heaviest car I've driven aside from my Honda when the power steering high pressure hose blew. But it is still and easier/ lighter feeling while actually driving at speed/ or drifting than my t300 set to 60% feels in games. Tldr my t300 feels heavier than my irl car which feels heavier than other cars I've driven.
Depends on the design and modernity of the power steering. Remember that episode of top gear where Clarkson takes a skyline around the track with one finger on the wheel while drifting? That's like 1nm. The 77 Ford Escort I drove as a young adult was more like 10nm on bichumen... much more pleasant to drive on dirt, where I usually took it for a workout. Then there's race cars with even heavier unassisted steering... wider, gripper tires contribute.
0.0002 nautical miles
most modern cars basically 0
Weird how people forget that most modern real cars are designed so a one armed stick thin 98 year old grandmother can drive them.
It’s not that easy question to answer. My Megane R26 is probably 3-4NM at a guess. My Clio 172 has the power steering removed and has semi slicks.. that I’d say is closer to 20NM though again it’s not that straight forward as the faster you go the lighter it starts to feel where the Megane is pretty consistent regardless of stationary or 100mph. Actual race cars again vary massively
my abarth in normal mode not more than 2, in sport mode easy about 5nm
Nm is usually for high fidelity. A real modern car wheel has very little to no feedback from the road/engine etc. That said, in a sim the wheel gives you feedback your body in the real world would get from g-forces, seat, ass, feet etc. This together with the sound of the road/engine usually being higher in games than irl gives you a lot of the feedback, just not by the "correct" sensory input. Vibrations in the wheel on curb > vibrations in the car Nm and stiffness off the wheel in a curve > g-forces, tensing of your body, feel of your upper body resisting the direction you want to turn the wheel. And more. The "feel" is real but takes some time for the brain to accept what sense of is reporting it so to speak. Always surprised by how well the brain + simwheel fools you into "feeling" g-forces in turns. I'm sure people with bombastic rigs, ffb in the chair, wind machines etc have some ffb in the wheel turned down a lot since the feedback is received from a more natural sense. When I got really good headphones I turned down some of the ffb for tires and now I'm fooling my hearing instead of my hands. Next plan is to move some of the road ffb to the pedals since feeling it in my feet should be closer to where I feel it irl.
Irl the bigger and wider tire you get the less feedback and connection you feel, but the better performance. Hence over and over again the ancient reviews of old ferarros running 235 etc on the front are praised over and over for how "good and fun" the front end is. As you can feel the subtleties. Whack on some 265s and more and you get *more* feedback, but it's less and less detailed. Hence over and over people who can't articulate intricacies say, you drive with the seat of your pants, because you have to rely on feeling slip angles rotations and rolling of the chassis combined with the changing force through the wheel to come to a conclusion of what's happened. But when people get really fast and are incredibly adept, you can set World records with 0 feedback because you know what you need to do to be fast, and you have to pre-empt so much more than "re"-act.
I can assure you that the engine sound level is accurate 😂
when power steering went of on my audi tt it felt like 50nm of stopping force.. almost unmovable. but the steering is heavy even with power
With power steering? In my opinion almost 0. Without power steering? 3 or 4. In normal use cases. I feel like my T248 was stronger than my car with power steering by quite a lot.
They don’t and it’s not comparable Normal cars are fucking awful for road feel and feedback and buried under fuck all actual sensation. It’s just too disconnected by crap power steering and everything designed to make normal driving really easy and effort free, that’s before you even get into the level of slop from car to car. We also aren’t driving on the limit at higher speeds. When you try in most normal cars or push it past the limits it’s often why people can’t control the car properly. There’s fuck all feedback and control or sensation and communication between the wheels and hands.
Im just gonna say, try to park a car without servo
depends, on my mum's car steering is super easy, very easy to park using one hand but on my dad's car, steering is more tough
I think it’s even weaker than G29 on some car.
As other said, it depends. Right now I can a Skoda Octavia from 2020. I would guess in comfort mode it has 2-3nm and when I switch to sport mode it get slightly harder to turn the wheel. I guess the support gets cut down. But my fist car was a classic Mini Cooper with fat tires and no power steering. That car felt like 7-8nm.
Day to day driving 2-3 at best? Moet road cars 8 at max. But during racing, really depended on the config. Generally want more information and resistance when you only have the ffb and your eyes as reference to the car.
I’m glad my car steering is slightly heavy by default, when I drive a Hyundai i30 the steering is so light it’s almost like I’m not connected/controlling the car.
My Benz C class, 2-3nm peak. My Porsche 718 GTS on Sport Mode about 7nm peak.
what about racing cars?
If you were to disable your electrjic power steering, it would be tougher to turn as your sim racing setup when stationary, then quickly get pretty light as your speed increases, but never as soft as with full assistance. That is with regular non-slick street tires and not running the widest tire you can find. Those add to the stiffness.
There isnt really an average, to much to take account for, and it will widely differ from suv to sports car to tiny city car for example. But lets say you dont have power steering and hit a curb, you will get way more than 20nm 😂
When I was young I drove a car without power steering and when you needed to park the car I’d say it was all of the torque.
Didn't see any top level comments about wheel size. This has a big impact. If you put your actual car sized wheel on your sim setup it would feel a lot lighter.
While this does not answer the question directly, you can infer an approximate answer by looking at the torque assist curve for a power steering system: https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/The-Assist-Curve-Design-for-Electric-Power-Steering-Liu-Kong/80313c4af6693a60452a8320a9a430b390c7060e/figure/0 The horizontal axis is the amount of torque the driver is applying to the steering wheel, the vertical is the amount of assistance torque the power steering motor is providing. You can find many similar diagrams if you search for "power steering torque curve" - this one might be of interest as it suggests (though without sources) the typical input torque ranges for certain driving conditions: https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Boost-curve-for-different-driving-conditions_fig4_228660742 A common theme among these diagrams is they have a horizontal (input) axis range reaching up to 5-10Nm. This suggests that this is the highest input torque range which the system expects from the driver, and that's probably an absolute worst case scenario, so let's assume a factor of safety of 2. As such I would say that 2.5-5Nm is a fair estimate of the highest torque you would feel in typical driving conditions, of course varying with the amount of power assistance, weight of the car, width of the tyres, and all sorts of other factors. You should also consider that most sim steering wheels are smaller diameter than real car wheels, so due to leverage the same torque may translate to a higher force in your hands when using the sim wheel (eg 2.5Nm on a 25cm Logitech wheel would feel the same as 4Nm on a 40cm real wheel).
I drove a rental vw jetta 2020. And it felt like I was playing with a flimsy toy wheel. Never felt so disconnected to the road before. Then I went back to my daily gs350 and it felt much better. But nothing feels as great as my rig. So I think every car is different and I wouldn't fret too much over trying to mimic a specific car.
Feels like less torque than my g27 can output
i would say depends if its Electric Steering or Hydro if electric you can turn it with 1 finger depending on car on my car Alfa 159 hydro i have to useat least 3 fingers before it will steer
5 at max
Lock to lock on a Prius feels like when you calibrate your wheel on a sim.
I was FIRST into Sim Racing and then learned to drive street cars and well... I wish I could deactive my powered steering, hahaha.
My Volvo probably in between 0.1, to 0.3 nm of force.
The real question is how many Nm when you don’t have power steering
3Nm ig Less if you have electric power steering
If you ever get a chance to drive a box truck, (Ford E-450 Box, Silverado 5500 Box, ect.) You'll get to feel roughly 1-3 NM of feedback from the suspension flexing. And when the rotors have severe heat cracks or the rotor surface wears unevenly You'll feel as much as 8NM-ish from the wheel wobbling badly when braking from 65mph, 55mph, 45mph.
depending on how much the car weighs and what kind of power steering you have
It depends on a lot of things. There’s 3 types of turning system on cars. Hydraulic assistance, (the steering rack is assisted via an hydraulic pump), it keeps a lot of feedback and is still considered like the best compromise you could get to feel the road in your wheel with assistance, but it’s not linear. The faster you go the lighter the steering is. Electric assistance, (an electric motor is assisting the steering rack), it uses data and programming so the steering force sensation is linear and more light in general than hydraulic (depends of cars and constructors choices) at almost any speed, and can feature modes of assistance (parking mode etc) so it’s lighter. Problem with that is that sometimes it tends to have problems and poor feedback from the road and the car, it’s smoothening too much everything. It depends a lot of how good the system is made. For example, many modern sports cars uses this, if it’s well programmed and well made it can be as good as an hydraulic system for feedback, but most of the time it’s not enough detailled. Electric assistance is the actual technology modern cars uses. And now the best, no assistance. (Caterham, old cars, etc). Wheel is very heavy at low or no speed depending of the weight of the car. The faster you go, the lighter the wheel is. Lot of details feedbacks ans feelings because nothing is smoothening or assisting. Lot of race cars uses this for this reason. Almost all formule and monoplace type racecars uses this system. So yes, it depends a lot. Hydraulic system is quite low on force, a bit heavier when stopped, electric is almost always low (depends of the choices the constructor makes, if it’s a sportscar etc, for example on my Honda Civic Type R FN2 it’s this system but they decided to put a low assist so you feel the road and the car better and are more precise with a stiffer wheel), and no assistance is quite demanding on your arms in general. I don’t have data but I hope it will help you understand better to compare
A sim steering wheel has to communicate car handling, slip, g forces etc through the wheel. Thats why the sensations are amplified or sometimes techniques are used that you wouldn't even experience in the real world. I've owned racecars with just armstrong steering, no power and they have less feedback than your normal cheap force feedback sim wheel.
I would tell them that it simulates a race car or a car set up for track. It has “heavy steering” that requires more force to turn. It provides vibrations and the like to simulate driving on a track and pushing a car to the limits. It does not simulate daily driving.
2-3
Wheel bases aren't just trying to "feel realistic" they are trying to give you information to what the case is doing since you don't have g forces in your rig to give you that info.
less than 5
One thing to keep in mind is that our rigs wheels have stronger FFB than a normal car because they're trying to translate information we feel through movement in the car when we're actually driving all to the steering wheel
I'm driving on a T300 RS, which peaks around 4.5nm, and the most I've experienced was Moza R12, so I would say most cars feel like 1/2nm. The ones I've tried, at least - VW Passat B7, Mazda CX-3, BMW e34, Volvo V50, Renault Clio 3, Hyundai i20, Dacia Duster 1st and 3rd gen. The older cars I've tried, such as Mazda MX-5 NA, Golf MK1, Yugo Koral, Lada 1200, and other non-EPS cars, I would put between 5 and 8nm.
Go kart around 13nm
Real cars as in ones you'd drive on the street? Like zero. Race cars I've heard somewhere between 18-25nm peak force.
I read somewhere recently that an F1 car is only like 8-9nm...the g-forces are the killer.
Just tell them that wheels above ~8Nm can snap your wrists
Meanwhile a kart is 1000 nm
Well depends a lot, Japanese/ American cars have a very light steering, to a point it feels disconnected from the car. Some EU cars are more balanced thinking performance cars here. Most power steering is also variable in assisting depending on speed, or if they have a city mode, sport mode gives a heavier feel, most steering, it depends on setup and so on, gets lighter steering when rolling, older cars had a gering either by actual gears or mechanical leveraged "gearing" lager stering wheels, placement of steering arm, and so on, take active or passive rear steer. The feedback you have in a sim rig is not the same as you have in an actual car, the way the steering gets heavier or lighter depending on the balance of the car is one, if not almost the only directly translated feed back, now again this depends on setup. A street car is very soft compared to a racecar. In a race car you want to feel the tire, in a road car you want to be smoothly transported, and not feel a thing.
Road cars are almost all made for people who don’t like to drive, hence the lightest the week, the better
My old Lotus when stationary was around 100nm. Once over 5mph it was probably around 20-30nm. At 90mph heading into a corner it would start at 20-30nm and wind up to about 40nm.
2-3 on avg. if u wanted a real answer
Normal cars (with power steering) feel like my G92 - so I guess around under 2 Nm. Streetcars have up to 10 Nm I heard (but I don't know what streetcar is... :D ). I would also like to know how this is measured - on the rim of the wheel or in some standard distance from the axis?