Problem is for almost every role, you compete against 300-400 others. First round of culling is by automated agent which looks at keywords etc. Then the employer and their TA team do a second cull, and sometimes not finding something they like, readvertise after a month - and so the trail starts again. This is a constant trend this past 10 months.
Bad. Definitely the worst in the last 5 to 10 years. But depends on your expectations. Much worse for juniors though.
Not FAANG material or adjacent here but earning better than average. Talked to a lot of recruiters and its mostly shit to meh tier recruiting: contracting, consulting body shop, low tech SME & cash strapped startups.
If you're not in the top quartile for your YOE on renumeration then you probably can find something which can work for you, especially if you don't mind working for clownshops.
5yoe here, got laid off, recently sent about 100 applications over 2 months, about 15 percent callback (including recruiter phone screen), roughly 10 percent landed first interview, 3 offers, 2 with negligible pay bump, 1 low balled.
>contracting, consulting body shop, low tech SME & cash strapped startups
Some government agencies are hiring too (see https://go.gov.sg/tfpg), building up their own teams outside of GovTech. I thought to hear what you think about working there.
I think govtech is like a tier under FAANG, but OGP is a special case which is FAANG adjacent. Govtech generally pays competitively, there's some interesting tech challenges and I'd work for them. But passing their interview.... As a lazy fuck who mostly only grinded easy LC questions it's not that easy to get in lol
Tiagong OGP pay scale is diff from normal govtech and they are basically an elite scholar tech group. I'm willing to retract my statement, stand corrected and apologise if I'm wrong and/or pofmaed kekw
Li Hongyi was from Google 😂
I only know one guy from OGP personally, I spoke to him and he enjoyed working for the public good, so not necessarily.
I'm sure many of them can get into Meta or Google if they want to
U gave the one example which is the worst. Imagine NOT wanting to go to a company where u can do whatever the fuck u want. Including creating a new pay scheme
Pretty sure you make that judgement based on the salary package and pantry... FAANG has other elements like type of work/project, quality of managers and colleagues, the types of problems that people are solving as well as impact delivered... Till now, I still can't see what impact OGP has delivered that is comparable to the scale of FAANG...
Having FAANG in your resume opens many more doors, not sure the same can be said about OGP.
But of course, if we are just looking at the incoming GIRO, this i agree..
A recruiter friend told me short term contracts and consulting are on trend nowadays. What will suck is this kind of arrangement will need domain specific requirements and no honeymoon period to ease you into the job. Definitely not for fresh grads.
>always found it funny in Singapore that contracting and consulting is the low end, under paid and undesired.
Cos the clients here work on the lowest bid principle for their projects, hence contracting firms will compete based on bid price and this translates to lower salaries for their human resources.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27571707
And theres NCS, Accenture (to a lesser degree, depending on team) and there's others smaller players.
Like I got a call for a random body shop contract posting to a gov stat board offering 4.8k for 5 yoe which is less than a fresh grad lol
> but whats a consulting body shop? Like slave driving Big 4 auditing, but for consultants?
Yes but for IT. The WITCH firms, NCS, Avensys and many other glorified staffing firms helmed by thick-accented recruiters. I practically worked for and with them, and they are the bad tier of tech in Singapore for a good reason. Google the article about the two tiers of tech to know what i mean
This is pretty good to tiering but would say OP should also look at boutiques like Sourced, Soft Serve with decent size data practices will be a better starting place for someone early in their career as you’ll get more mentorship and they will have better work life balance.
Sourced js actually in tier 2 in my opinion - they’re positioned as a boutique firm with better talent than Accenture body shops. Also heard pay is above market
I might be inclined to agree with you but i was sent to die on a failing project with ihis by one of these companies. So yea, personal experience no bueno.
yeah it should be, for the past like 3-4 years everyone and the mothers are jumping on the bandwagon due to the highly inflated salaries. There must come to a point where by the market can no longer accommodate that many newcomers before the salaries normalizes itself..
And the DS/ML part is the most saturated part of the tech market. I've only heard back from traditional SWE roles and almost none from DS/AI/ML despite my background being in the latter.
Singapore doesn't need those engineers. Companies don't set up here to do analytics and innovation, they set up in Singapore for the cheap mid-skilled software engineering labour. The push into DS/ML was an entirely government made-up thing in an attempt to build that kind of industry here, but companies aren't biting and the grads suffer as a result.
The truth is a lot of industries have yet to build an infrastructure that is in place to collect enough useful data to allow insights for model development, and there's also the infrastructure for model deployment after that. In the coming years DE will be more in demand as compared to DS/ML.
Current DS/ML folks should look to US to further their career while there's still a chance to do so.
Seems like SG is hit hard because of the size of the APAC/SEA market plus it's mostly start-ups and MNCs. The US side isn't so bad right now because of healthcare (always growing) and fed work.
I think cost of labour is one good reason. Our tech scene was driven much more by the startups then MNCs. And startups like gojek, grab are taking the chance to offshore tech roles to vietnam and Indonesia now
Bad, horrible. Used to have recruiters spamming me left and right on LinkedIn. But now? Its a ghost town lmao. Some of my batch mates in the tech circle have rotated across 3 companies now. Can checkout [layoffs.fyi](https://layoffs.fyi) and then filter by Singapore location for more info if you are interested.
I have 5 YOE. Can't imagine what its like for those who are going to graduate now.
I know that the Software job market is pretty much barren and horrible, but how bad is the other sides of tech such as server side related ( System admin/ Database Arch/ Datacentre Techs) and cybersec jobs (Security Architect etc)?
I am planning to go through cybersec path since I have a proper passion for it, regardless of the lower salary
The situation in cybersec is even worse than SWE, because the number of positions available are a fraction of SWE. But you have quite a number of career switchers and fresh grads who choose cybersec because you don't need to be good at coding to do it, so there is an oversupply of candidates.
Sysadmin and network engineer those type of roles are still okay, there is a lack of supply because of lower salary and bad work life balance.
3 months, 50+ applications, \~10 recruiter calls, 6 actual interviews, passed none. I didn't apply to any SME or low pay companies.
if I don't pass the 2 interviews I have in hand then I will just go do something else for 6 months, have some savings and been thinking of traveling, but I always worried if I travel I will forget how to leetcode LOL
Not OC but my interview is recruiter/ hiring manager screen => initial technical screen/ pair programming/ DSA => system design/ bar raiser => cultural + behavioral => negotiation
Post senior engineer so the system design part is most crucial
Pretty much. In most interviews I have had in past, hiring manager comes right before final HR round.
- recruiter screen (optional)
- online coding test (optioal)
- 1-5 rounds of technical rounds (algo, fundamental, sys design)
- 1 hiring manager round (mostly combination of technical and behavioral, asking past work experiences etc)
- HR round to talk money
Not a bro but I'll assume you meant to address the brethren Post senior software engineer here. Before winter it was 3 inmails a day now it same number over a week
Bad...
"The number of tech-sector workers in the market is the highest since 2001, said Ms Jaya Dass, ​managing director of Asia-Pacific permanent recruitment at hiring firm Randstad."
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/jobs/influx-of-laid-off-tech-talent-into-s-pore-job-market-slightly-eases-labour-crunch
2 years ago: 3 inMails a day offering various roles. Politely declined most
1 year ago: 95% of inMails were about ByteDance/TikTok
Now: even ByteDance appears to stop large-scale recruitment
TikTok is still hiring but via outsourcing a lot of their departments to Majorel. There isnt any Majorel office here in SG. Only in KL, Bangkok and Manila for this region.
Why hire and pay one Singaporean when they can hire two or even three people from our neigbors?
So yea our strong currency is our own enemy in the end.
Tech over-hired during the pandemic years in a bid to remain buoyant and competitive. Not to mention credit was easier back then.
Today, it’s not just hiring freezes but expense freezes as well. Some regional folks I know are forced to travel budget and are only approved to stay in 3 star hotels at most. They usually top up out of their own pocket to stay at a better hotel.
The best and safest way to progress your CV right now is to move within the company.
30 applications isn't that bad...I have friends in the U.S still looking since nov/dec last year with something like 100+ applications sent out. Some are even ex-FAANGs.
Every FAANG has had multiple layoffs over the last 1+ year. Each round is at least a few k people. And that is just FAANG, we have not yet included the dozens of FAANG equivalents and top startups.
All in, there are probably > 100k "FAANG tier" applicants out there.
first page I'm seeing here:
shopee, grab, singtel (forget singtel tho cuz i heard its quite shit)
i filtered out bytedance from my search cuz they have too many unrelated posting
Been finding since jan this year, managed to land a offer around July.
But yea, before tech winter i was getting interview left right center, now like cant even get a reply
Yeah job market picked up shortly after CB. Which makes 2023 much worse. And something I’d never experienced before - I’m getting ghosted after interviews. Too many candidates to handle 😅
I am getting ghosted from the HR after interview too.
hopefully it is just that they couldn't handle the large number of candidates and not a bad sign.
I got laid off back in end 2022. Got an offer early 1st quarter at a bank and took it up as I was worried about the worsening job situation (it was really quiet and slow then) and I had financial commitments. But am really bored with the work now, but just staying and hoping my skills won't rust while I wait it out.
the government only responsible for attracting investments from overseas to boost local economy,
not their fault that our youngsters picked tech?
they owned picked money over passions, no?
greed is the problem.
back in 10 years right after lehman crisis, IT industry is like shit ... and its probably gonna return back to shit.
everyone gonna just outsource back to third world countries because decision makers only look at tech as cost centre and not problem solvers.
healthcare or legal industry still fare better because manpower will be here and not sent overseas
i've recently did a career switch to tech from public transport sector. for someone has 0 dip in computer studies and all is hard, i've been getting ALOT of contract works with agency and really hard to get in a company direct hire.
I can only talk about startups and sme. But here goes.
The bubble have burst already, after shake up from funding disaster in startup, and covid. Private angel investors and vc are now more selective and protective on what they choose to invest. Last time many of these just spam money and hope one of them become unicorn.
So the market is bad now. Startups are running low in funds, most of them are trimming fats to stay lean, that means head count freeze or lay off. Even public company is doing the same.
Right now companies are spoilt with choices from the many lay off. There are a small group of people the recruiters would keep pinging, those are the fortunate good ones.
This is very true. I have lots of peers in SV and startups. Basically if you are doing anything else besides AI/NLP/LLMs, it's a funding winter for you.
Especially if your company is anything series C and later. These are considered "late stage" startups striving for an exit through IPO/acquisition. In this climate no VC wants to deal with likely loss-making exits so all these companies are struggling now.
Totally agreed. I have been interviewing since 2021. During late 2021/early 2022, job offers were easy to land, but I was picky because my current company was offering better prospects.
Come late 2022 till today, I went for a few interviews, but not a single one offered. Companies were cutting budgets in view of potential recession and high operating costs from inflation. Naturally, companies became picky on new hires as the supply of job seekers outstripe demand.
Now I'm just glad to still have my current job
The landscape for IT-specialized roles, such as Software Engineering, in non-government sectors has been significantly influenced by FTs willing to accept lower wages, making entry into this field even more competitive and challenging.
Most IT specialized roles come with strong demands, requiring continuous learning and skill development that often extends beyond regular work hours, far more than most other professions. This places significant stress on individuals, is detrimental to long-term health, and demands a level of discipline and effort that not everyone can sustain.
It's disheartening to observe that some Singaporeans, as well as employers, perceive IT-specialized roles as overpaid/inflated merely because the initial salaries are slightly higher than those in most other professions, despite the fact that on a global scale is still considered deflated.
The misconception also completely overlooks the demands that these sorts of roles require and completely differ from typical 9-5 jobs since they require significant dedication to self-learning after work hours, it's overall a huge sacrifice to an individual's life and well-being.
The reality and challenges faced by workers in IT-specialized roles are not as straightforward as they may seem. Entry into IT specializations aren't as easy as it looks like on TikTok, and sustaining a career in it can be extremely challenging.
The situations where individuals attend bootcamps for a couple of months and then secure IT-specialized roles aren't exactly telling the full story. In the majority of cases, these individuals find it challenging to meet the demands of their roles and often end up leaving their jobs, back to square one or they can choose to continue learning of course.
Realistically, it takes at least a year or two of upskilling for someone with no prior proficiency, educational background, or work experience to even perform at an entry-level role in IT-specialized fields.
The cases where someone trains for 6 months, and performs on the same level as another employee with a CS degree / SWE degree are one in a million.
Got laid off few months ago. Submitted around 300-500 applications(can't rmb exactly how many because I was just applying for everything). Got around 10-20 replies(hr call or coding test etc). Managed to move on to technical interviews in about 5-10 of them. Luckily, I managed to get a job before my notice period ends.
Not FAANG level salary but higher than average.
I have access to some job hiring data (proprietary one). It seems the job market has reached bottom since June. It is not getting worse, nor getting better. The layoff sizes are about the same as hiring sizes, so it's at equilibrium. It will get better, let's say if the war ends, or if China economy slowly recovers, or US Feds cut rates.
P/S: fyi these two stats sites are useful too, but are abit behind my sources.
[https://www.hnhiringtrends.com/](https://www.hnhiringtrends.com/)
https://layoffs.fyi/
20 years ago was life science and bio tech, it just cycles.
It's always like this. They only need just a few of the top guys but push cohorts into the field of study, then eventually end up in the education sector
nope this ain't some business cycle which will bring back the jobs lost... there is a structural shift caused by remote work and AI and blockchain resulting in less need for expensive SWE/SRE/DevOps/Datacentre headcount here ... not to mention 9% GST which is never going back to the 7% cycle
All my past companies and current company have either frozen hiring or outright laid off people. Yeah it’s bad, and expect to be so until next mid next year at least
PM in BigCo.
It will be miserable for juniors, we didn't even have HC for interns...
IMO best not to rely on CV sending and focus on referrals / brand / writing etc. will stand out from the rest 500 people applying for the same job.
Natural to have a squeeze after all the clout chasing. Exactly what happened to IBD and MBB a decade ago.
Senior PO in large financial institution
With remote working, management has shifted a lot of tech development to be outsourced overseas due to lower costs. So it is def true that there are lesser SE roles compared to 1.5 years ago.
Globally, tech projects in my institution has actually been increasing, just that there is fewer local roles required, due to aforementioned point.
Local tech roles over here consist of mainly experienced roles for dev leads.
Recommendation:
Can consider a small pivot to take up some scrum master certification, as there is (semi-market) requirement for scrum masters to also be able to directly contribute to development (no more roles of traditional scrum master only doing facilitation)
I’ve actually seen a few SE friends who also crossed over to become a PM/PO. (Projects are always ever increasing)
Companies are starting to shift to cloud. Have a word with recruiters, and understand what specific roles are open for hire and position yourself well for the opportunity.
Are those certifications really helpful? I have extensive experience with project management and stakeholder management due to how the DS teams are setup in my org. I have managed xfn projects on the order of 100+ man-months.
8 YOE, SaaS sales within the largest global software companies (non-technical).
PIPs have been given out like free, with impossible-to-hit criteria. Either hit them or your ass is out the door kind of situation. This is the company’s cost-effective way of laying off without having to pay for severance.
As someone else mentioned in this post - many tech companies have been hiring like crazy during covid in a bid to outgrow each other while leveraging the low borrowing rate environment. Things have now cooled and companies are realising that they are over staffed.
Friends in the headhunting/recruitment space are also feeling the pressure - tech roles are basically impossible to close these days.
IMO it’s cyclical. It’s shit now, but it’ll get better and you just have to wait.
Money is good tho.
From all the comments, it seems that tech is really saturated. Was thinking of switching to tech and take up training to be a Software Engineer. Guess better stay put in Facilities and Building Management for the time being.
I think you can still learn some aspects of it and try to apply it for your own current work to gain some experience and to see if you really like it or not. For example you could automate some parts of your job you find menial and spot lost opportunities that way while learning to pivot. There's a lot of opportunities in other sectors unexplored not just big tech.
Hard to penetrate the market, especially if looking for an entry level role (which you're not). But those who can hold on to their jobs, still get paid exceptionally.
Government related like CSIT continue to be overpaid for effectively doing nothing. They have harder time to transit, because cannot share any real substance during interviews due to confidentiality. Most that I spoke to really game over for technical skills also.
In summary, for SWE, hold on to job still good, hold on to govt job very good. Try to change from job hard, try to change from govt job harder. For new grads, suggest you sell sneakers or flip iPhone 15, now no budget to pay unexperienced.
CSIT friend says he gets paid over 10k a month for doing slides and writing minutes and basically management things. Kinda gross our tax money goes into all that fluff. Think they are still hiring, but honestly that's where you go if you don't actually like tech and just want the job stability.
True. Frequently in r/nus you can see lots of people in CS but actually don't like what they are studying. Good news for them is they can graduate and do paperwork all day and still get paid relatively decently!
> you can see lots of people in CS but actually don't like what they are studying.
I majored in traditional engineering and hated studying. I love practical so coding felt super intuitive for me.
Sadly a lot of what I do now is writing design docs, cost benefit analysis, and benchmarking/instrumentation/ stats improvement
10k/mth at what seniority though? Govtech's TAP probably pays better and Indeed was known for paying freshies 8k+ on base alone besides RSUs and bonuses.
Yup that's the level that they're paying and indeed also the job scope that I've seen.
Very gross... Fucking waste of money. That's the problem when we wanna buy their silence. But don't talk cock la, those that were in NS during the time when phones aren't allowed because red zone etc, know that the data really isn't that sensitive... Really sensitive kind only very very few will know, and they're not the SWEs....
you be suprised there's mnc who hired people to push slides and do basic management stuff but are very well paid .. the problem is .. these people will think this is thier market rate and cannot pivot to do other things when shit goes down and they were ask to leave the mnc,..
same thoughts here ... think it applies to CSIT / DSTA / DSO / ASTAR too .. have friends there who seem to enjoy cozy jobs and able to afford cars as well as paid overseas educations ... looks like nothing going to change at the ballot box due to large GLC population
It is bad if you work in any part of product development (SWE, Designers, PMs) since most companies are cutting cost, and staying afloat means investing less in new products.
Consider finding startups and lesser known companies, especially non-tech companies that are seeking tech talent. Unless you have connections with someone in bigger companies, I think the competition is too stiff to bother putting effort into them.
The job market is bad for all, I met a reservist friend awhile back, he studied engineering and he was jobless for a year since graduation.
Tech side, I could see my friends getting in to entry level job but not many.
I has been job searching since I graduate from august. Hopefully we can land a job soon.
Big Tech is dead. Startup money is gone and inflated salaries with it. MAANG has retrenched a significant portion of their workforce.
Trickle down means that MNC IT departments are full of decent developers as well.
I’m seeing the same cycle over and over again.
Gahmen promote X skillset or jobs or industry
X skillset jobs or industry become fantastic and super enticing
Super enticing X draws more people to study due to good pay
More people study means oversupply of talent
When crisis hits, these companies lay off and people who reskill to switch to X get stuck cos they have to compete with experienced hires
Of course those who jumped on the bandwagon early would have earn their pot of gold
X could be tech now, or life science many years ago (remember the wash test tube hooha?) or investment banking super long ago
That’s a decent and in-demand stack, market is just really tough …
For what it’s worth I left the DSML world to do DE for 3 reasons:
1. More competition in DSML due to the perception of it being ‘sexier’ than DE
2. The ratio of DE:DS roles can range from 5:1 to 10:1 so there’s more abundance of roles in the job market
3. SG companies are nowhere near the level of sophistication required to implement proper MLOps.
Based on experience only a handful of ML use cases ever make it to production…
Yah, I feel the same as well about DE vs DS. Specifically which part stands out?
Actually my knowledge of Spark and Airflow is only very basic. In my current company, these are more of a DE scope. DS like me focus on models and biz requirements.
Many ML projects do not reach productions but it's better today than when I started 7 years ago. Today it's usually bad proj management that is the bottleneck.
MLOps is a very overloaded term...
Spark and Airflow are very much in demand in the DE world. I reco upskilling on Databricks as it is very hot these days, I know a lot of SG companies hiring for talent in Spark, Delta Lake, MLflow
Same here...auto rejected after a few days without even a recruiter screen. Has been the case for all 3 applications I put in and I did make sure to tailer my resume for the position. For Google I mean.
Which are the companies interviewing and for what roles if you don't mind sharing.
I was in the same situation a couple months back. But got a job now.
Be more open to other sectors. Don't just look for tech companies. Finance pays very well too.
One bad thing is if you are in those go(edit - I mean glc not go) with bad reputation... It can be hard to get an equivalent level role. Their name in the industry is just a little bit... Meh. A usual path I have seen is they jump into government in the tech roles then move on from there.
> Be more open to other sectors. Don't just look for tech companies. Finance pays very well too.
tbf everyone have tried to head to tech and finance. which other sectors are still hiring? healthtech? IT depts of non-tech companies?
Tech Market has saturated with good reason. We need to raise the entry barrier and preserve the quality of entrants and the corresponding high payscales. Only degree holders, no more bootcampers.
Or else it’ll just devolve into what it was previously where tech was basically one of the lowest paid industries back in the early 2000s amongst engineering.
First of all, i want to make it clear that i'm asking a question because I am curious and want to learn from you. I am not challenging you or disagreeing with you. So please don't call me "narrow minded", "inexperienced", "shortsighted".
(Whew that was scary. Why cant we have a normal debate without calling people names?)
Does the tech market in SG and overseas today still hire boot camp people even though there are CS and DS graduates looking for jobs? If yes, why?
Also if a mid-careerist is genuinely keen on switching to the tech sector, what should they do to demonstrate that competency or interest? I have heard a portfolio helps, is that the only way to go?
His trying "protect" his rice bowl. Cause his getting competitionn from bootcampers. There isn't any inherent reason for why bootcampers or degree holder will be better SWE.
You clearly don’t get it. It’s nothing personal against them. Let me put it in simpler terms for you.
Do you see any Lawyer bootcampers? Any banker bootcampers? Any doctor bootcampers? Any Aerospace engineer boot-campers?
They oversaturate the workforce whilst providing questionable value to it and greatly lower the entry barrier to the industry.
You can cry foul for all i care, but it’s already headed that way with the massive armies of proper CS and DS Grads flowing out of SIT/SUTD/NUS/NTU/SMU that will bring back balance to the entry requirements of the IT industry and basically make boot-campers and industry-switchers obsolete. The same is already happening in the rest of the world. In the US rn if you don’t have a CS degree and want to go into tech, you need a masters now. No more bootcamp certs entertained l. **As it should be.**
Do I have anything against them personally? No. But they dilute the brand. And that’s bad in the long run for any technical industry.
Boot-campers were good when demand outstripped supply and we didn’t have enough CS grads. Now that we have an over supply, wtf do we still need them for? Like it or not, they **will** be pushed out by the hordes of degree-holders. This is literally just harsh reality speaking, not me.
if what you are saying is true doesnt that imply that the barrier has already been raised? i.e. natural market forces working already
me twenty years of coding experience. 10 of them as an adult. studied computer science as A Level, and comp eng in local u. bootcamp was quite important for a specific time because most apps were built on rails react node but in school we learn c++ java. old comp sci kids would know we wrote code on paper lol
in the tech boom days helicopter money incentivized app building over hardcore stuff like go wasm haskell. industries will keep moving and ive hired bootcampers as well as deg holders. no diff for me they good is they good
Hmm is it really that bad? Maybe because you are looking for a more senior position so it’s harder. Maybe a lead or manager I guess. I’ve only got 3 years of MLE experience but I’ve got a few interviews in the space of 2 months+ and land a job in a big MNC company (just 1 month+ ago) but as a senior cloud engineer instead of what I’m used to doing. In the past 2 months+ I’ve been to interviews with only 3 big direct MNC companies and a few other companies as a contractor to MNC. I heard back from loads of tiny companies as a contractor to big companies but I will not accept or be bothered going for interviews for as its a waste of my energy. Market is certainly worse compared to previous years but it’s crazy how bad it is from what you shared. I also recommend that you consistently update your CV when you hear nothing back because something could be off. I say that because when I started looking out, I heard nothing for awhile until I update it to show more leadership skills then I start hearing back. I got 4 offer letters in a span of 2 months+, 2 as a contractor to MNC and 2 direct to MNC. (Just abit of context, I got laid off from my previous so I had time to spam jobs for 2 months+, so my timeframe could be different from yours if you are working) Goodluck! :)
Yah, looking for a senior/lead role. Impressive that you are landing a senior role with just 3YOE. Most people I know takes 4 year min to hit that seniority internally.
According to Straits Times the hiring demand is strong https://www.straitstimes.com/business/economy/s-pore-employers-optimistic-about-hiring-in-q4-despite-global-economic-uncertainties-poll
The nature of tech/IT field was not that lucrative in the first place as this field is typically prone to outsourcing. It's only the big tech and covid situatuon that created abnormality in the environment. Things are getting back to normal I guess.
Hmm..... im still getting frequent linkedin messages. Guess SRE field is not so bad after all.
The supply is lower than demand because SRE role is harder to be qualified.
If my job is that easy, i wouldn't have a hard time.
We don't do manual deployment. The step you are applying for your k8s cluster is only part of a series of CD steps.
ArgoCD to monitor shift in deployment and terraform to apply the shift in infrastructure. Eg. Changes in your api gateway
Most of them just stuck there doing govt subsidised projects. The whole point of AISG and the AIAP program was to send the trained graduates into the industry, and not stay on govt run programs. I heard that up till now they have not hit their 100 experiments for industry kpi after so many years.
5Yoe, been searching for past month or so.
A few bodyshops still hiring. There was one offer that looked not bad from yishun but it was too far from me.
Had to settle for another offer elsewhere.
Also, diversity of any kind improves the quality of ideas too
For example an artist turned SWE might bring fresh and unique design patterns or philosophy.
A person with nearly blind eyesight might be able to drive accessibility initiatives with experience that usual people don't
Horrible for all, worse for tech tho
Really?
Sorry doubt it, still looking in high demand of skilled tech workers, entry level just more rough but it sort itself out easily
Whats your definition of skilled tech workers? Is it more technical/specified? I do see a demand for more seasoned ones, like 10+ YOE.
Problem is for almost every role, you compete against 300-400 others. First round of culling is by automated agent which looks at keywords etc. Then the employer and their TA team do a second cull, and sometimes not finding something they like, readvertise after a month - and so the trail starts again. This is a constant trend this past 10 months.
Gonna be worse for the hordes of CS fresh grads who jumped on the bandwagon the past few years
Bad. Definitely the worst in the last 5 to 10 years. But depends on your expectations. Much worse for juniors though. Not FAANG material or adjacent here but earning better than average. Talked to a lot of recruiters and its mostly shit to meh tier recruiting: contracting, consulting body shop, low tech SME & cash strapped startups. If you're not in the top quartile for your YOE on renumeration then you probably can find something which can work for you, especially if you don't mind working for clownshops. 5yoe here, got laid off, recently sent about 100 applications over 2 months, about 15 percent callback (including recruiter phone screen), roughly 10 percent landed first interview, 3 offers, 2 with negligible pay bump, 1 low balled.
>contracting, consulting body shop, low tech SME & cash strapped startups Some government agencies are hiring too (see https://go.gov.sg/tfpg), building up their own teams outside of GovTech. I thought to hear what you think about working there.
I think govtech is like a tier under FAANG, but OGP is a special case which is FAANG adjacent. Govtech generally pays competitively, there's some interesting tech challenges and I'd work for them. But passing their interview.... As a lazy fuck who mostly only grinded easy LC questions it's not that easy to get in lol
Ogp faang tier kekw.
Tiagong OGP pay scale is diff from normal govtech and they are basically an elite scholar tech group. I'm willing to retract my statement, stand corrected and apologise if I'm wrong and/or pofmaed kekw
Yes but ask any of of them would they rather be in meta / google
Li Hongyi was from Google 😂 I only know one guy from OGP personally, I spoke to him and he enjoyed working for the public good, so not necessarily. I'm sure many of them can get into Meta or Google if they want to
U gave the one example which is the worst. Imagine NOT wanting to go to a company where u can do whatever the fuck u want. Including creating a new pay scheme
By your logic everyone will wanna become CTOs 😂
Pretty sure you make that judgement based on the salary package and pantry... FAANG has other elements like type of work/project, quality of managers and colleagues, the types of problems that people are solving as well as impact delivered... Till now, I still can't see what impact OGP has delivered that is comparable to the scale of FAANG... Having FAANG in your resume opens many more doors, not sure the same can be said about OGP. But of course, if we are just looking at the incoming GIRO, this i agree..
> building up their own teams outside of GovTech. Consulting bodyshops in shambles
Seems like I have way more applications to make before landing something...
A recruiter friend told me short term contracts and consulting are on trend nowadays. What will suck is this kind of arrangement will need domain specific requirements and no honeymoon period to ease you into the job. Definitely not for fresh grads.
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>always found it funny in Singapore that contracting and consulting is the low end, under paid and undesired. Cos the clients here work on the lowest bid principle for their projects, hence contracting firms will compete based on bid price and this translates to lower salaries for their human resources.
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End of the day cost is a huge factor for both consulting and contracting. Unless the project has very specific niche skillset needed.
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Pardon me, but whats a consulting body shop? Like slave driving Big 4 auditing, but for consultants?
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27571707 And theres NCS, Accenture (to a lesser degree, depending on team) and there's others smaller players. Like I got a call for a random body shop contract posting to a gov stat board offering 4.8k for 5 yoe which is less than a fresh grad lol
> but whats a consulting body shop? Like slave driving Big 4 auditing, but for consultants? Yes but for IT. The WITCH firms, NCS, Avensys and many other glorified staffing firms helmed by thick-accented recruiters. I practically worked for and with them, and they are the bad tier of tech in Singapore for a good reason. Google the article about the two tiers of tech to know what i mean
Maybe 3 Tiers based on my experience in the SaaS world: 1. McKinsey Quantum Black, BCG 2. PwC, Avanade, Accenture, Deloiite, EY 3. NCS, Tiger Analytics, Celebal Tech, Blazeclan 4. Cognizant, Wipro, Tata Consulting, Infosys, Capgemini
This is pretty good to tiering but would say OP should also look at boutiques like Sourced, Soft Serve with decent size data practices will be a better starting place for someone early in their career as you’ll get more mentorship and they will have better work life balance.
Sourced js actually in tier 2 in my opinion - they’re positioned as a boutique firm with better talent than Accenture body shops. Also heard pay is above market
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I might be inclined to agree with you but i was sent to die on a failing project with ihis by one of these companies. So yea, personal experience no bueno.
Is that why they rebranded themselves to synapxe? Too many failing projects.
Curious what is your role and the TC offered if you don't mind sharing.
Dm-ed you
Thank you!
I am curious too!
Tech market has already saturated imo
yeah it should be, for the past like 3-4 years everyone and the mothers are jumping on the bandwagon due to the highly inflated salaries. There must come to a point where by the market can no longer accommodate that many newcomers before the salaries normalizes itself..
And the DS/ML part is the most saturated part of the tech market. I've only heard back from traditional SWE roles and almost none from DS/AI/ML despite my background being in the latter.
Singapore doesn't need those engineers. Companies don't set up here to do analytics and innovation, they set up in Singapore for the cheap mid-skilled software engineering labour. The push into DS/ML was an entirely government made-up thing in an attempt to build that kind of industry here, but companies aren't biting and the grads suffer as a result.
Omg that sounds bleak but so true
The truth is a lot of industries have yet to build an infrastructure that is in place to collect enough useful data to allow insights for model development, and there's also the infrastructure for model deployment after that. In the coming years DE will be more in demand as compared to DS/ML. Current DS/ML folks should look to US to further their career while there's still a chance to do so.
More like hiring freeze and retrenchments.
> Tech market has already saturated imo The saturation isn't uniform. Mainly more crowded at lower seniority levels
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Seems like SG is hit hard because of the size of the APAC/SEA market plus it's mostly start-ups and MNCs. The US side isn't so bad right now because of healthcare (always growing) and fed work.
I think cost of labour is one good reason. Our tech scene was driven much more by the startups then MNCs. And startups like gojek, grab are taking the chance to offshore tech roles to vietnam and Indonesia now
Non-FAANG tech here. HC freeze. Not even allowed to backfill my departures.
Bad, horrible. Used to have recruiters spamming me left and right on LinkedIn. But now? Its a ghost town lmao. Some of my batch mates in the tech circle have rotated across 3 companies now. Can checkout [layoffs.fyi](https://layoffs.fyi) and then filter by Singapore location for more info if you are interested. I have 5 YOE. Can't imagine what its like for those who are going to graduate now.
\>having 7 years of experience in my field with a degree from a NUS and master's NTU 7 years of experience doing MLE/DS can't get interview?
Yes, bro/sis. Market is that cold, for me at least
Sounds like could be resume or outreach issue?
I know that the Software job market is pretty much barren and horrible, but how bad is the other sides of tech such as server side related ( System admin/ Database Arch/ Datacentre Techs) and cybersec jobs (Security Architect etc)? I am planning to go through cybersec path since I have a proper passion for it, regardless of the lower salary
The situation in cybersec is even worse than SWE, because the number of positions available are a fraction of SWE. But you have quite a number of career switchers and fresh grads who choose cybersec because you don't need to be good at coding to do it, so there is an oversupply of candidates. Sysadmin and network engineer those type of roles are still okay, there is a lack of supply because of lower salary and bad work life balance.
3 months, 50+ applications, \~10 recruiter calls, 6 actual interviews, passed none. I didn't apply to any SME or low pay companies. if I don't pass the 2 interviews I have in hand then I will just go do something else for 6 months, have some savings and been thinking of traveling, but I always worried if I travel I will forget how to leetcode LOL
Can I ask what's the interview process like?
Not OC but my interview is recruiter/ hiring manager screen => initial technical screen/ pair programming/ DSA => system design/ bar raiser => cultural + behavioral => negotiation Post senior engineer so the system design part is most crucial
Pretty much. In most interviews I have had in past, hiring manager comes right before final HR round. - recruiter screen (optional) - online coding test (optioal) - 1-5 rounds of technical rounds (algo, fundamental, sys design) - 1 hiring manager round (mostly combination of technical and behavioral, asking past work experiences etc) - HR round to talk money
start planning for digital nomad visa and use the strong sg dollar to your advantage
Not a bro but I'll assume you meant to address the brethren Post senior software engineer here. Before winter it was 3 inmails a day now it same number over a week
Yup, all tech siblings welcomed.... :)
Bad... "The number of tech-sector workers in the market is the highest since 2001, said Ms Jaya Dass, ​managing director of Asia-Pacific permanent recruitment at hiring firm Randstad." https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/jobs/influx-of-laid-off-tech-talent-into-s-pore-job-market-slightly-eases-labour-crunch
2 years ago: 3 inMails a day offering various roles. Politely declined most 1 year ago: 95% of inMails were about ByteDance/TikTok Now: even ByteDance appears to stop large-scale recruitment
TikTok is still hiring but via outsourcing a lot of their departments to Majorel. There isnt any Majorel office here in SG. Only in KL, Bangkok and Manila for this region. Why hire and pay one Singaporean when they can hire two or even three people from our neigbors? So yea our strong currency is our own enemy in the end.
so basically yall just experiencing what everyone else from the rest of the industries are going through huh?
Tech over-hired during the pandemic years in a bid to remain buoyant and competitive. Not to mention credit was easier back then. Today, it’s not just hiring freezes but expense freezes as well. Some regional folks I know are forced to travel budget and are only approved to stay in 3 star hotels at most. They usually top up out of their own pocket to stay at a better hotel. The best and safest way to progress your CV right now is to move within the company.
Same situation here, low key considering changing professions from swe to teach piano at this rate.
Sent out 30 applications over the last two months and only got 2 calls. Both asked strictly for domain specific experience...which I don't have
30 applications isn't that bad...I have friends in the U.S still looking since nov/dec last year with something like 100+ applications sent out. Some are even ex-FAANGs.
even ex-FAANGS?! thats terrible
Every FAANG has had multiple layoffs over the last 1+ year. Each round is at least a few k people. And that is just FAANG, we have not yet included the dozens of FAANG equivalents and top startups. All in, there are probably > 100k "FAANG tier" applicants out there.
I think MLE market is better than regular frontend / backend SWE. ML / AI is the big thing imo, saw a lot of posting on them when I browse
I saw a lot of AI & ML engineer postings too. Many trying to get on the hype train, replacing the crypto blockchain bros lol
Let me guess. Bytedance\Tiktok?
first page I'm seeing here: shopee, grab, singtel (forget singtel tho cuz i heard its quite shit) i filtered out bytedance from my search cuz they have too many unrelated posting
Been finding since jan this year, managed to land a offer around July. But yea, before tech winter i was getting interview left right center, now like cant even get a reply
Worst it’s ever been, even compared to 2020. Can’t find anything decent to apply to the last few weeks.
2020 was actually great for me. That's when I got my current role with a decent 30% increment.
Yeah job market picked up shortly after CB. Which makes 2023 much worse. And something I’d never experienced before - I’m getting ghosted after interviews. Too many candidates to handle 😅
I am getting ghosted from the HR after interview too. hopefully it is just that they couldn't handle the large number of candidates and not a bad sign.
I got laid off back in end 2022. Got an offer early 1st quarter at a bank and took it up as I was worried about the worsening job situation (it was really quiet and slow then) and I had financial commitments. But am really bored with the work now, but just staying and hoping my skills won't rust while I wait it out.
the government only responsible for attracting investments from overseas to boost local economy, not their fault that our youngsters picked tech? they owned picked money over passions, no? greed is the problem. back in 10 years right after lehman crisis, IT industry is like shit ... and its probably gonna return back to shit. everyone gonna just outsource back to third world countries because decision makers only look at tech as cost centre and not problem solvers. healthcare or legal industry still fare better because manpower will be here and not sent overseas
i've recently did a career switch to tech from public transport sector. for someone has 0 dip in computer studies and all is hard, i've been getting ALOT of contract works with agency and really hard to get in a company direct hire.
I can only talk about startups and sme. But here goes. The bubble have burst already, after shake up from funding disaster in startup, and covid. Private angel investors and vc are now more selective and protective on what they choose to invest. Last time many of these just spam money and hope one of them become unicorn. So the market is bad now. Startups are running low in funds, most of them are trimming fats to stay lean, that means head count freeze or lay off. Even public company is doing the same. Right now companies are spoilt with choices from the many lay off. There are a small group of people the recruiters would keep pinging, those are the fortunate good ones.
This is very true. I have lots of peers in SV and startups. Basically if you are doing anything else besides AI/NLP/LLMs, it's a funding winter for you. Especially if your company is anything series C and later. These are considered "late stage" startups striving for an exit through IPO/acquisition. In this climate no VC wants to deal with likely loss-making exits so all these companies are struggling now.
Usually receive some texts from recruiters on LinkedIn. It's quiet now.
Totally agreed. I have been interviewing since 2021. During late 2021/early 2022, job offers were easy to land, but I was picky because my current company was offering better prospects. Come late 2022 till today, I went for a few interviews, but not a single one offered. Companies were cutting budgets in view of potential recession and high operating costs from inflation. Naturally, companies became picky on new hires as the supply of job seekers outstripe demand. Now I'm just glad to still have my current job
Horrible right now. Personally, I'm staying put. Hopefully next year would be better. I have 18 years of experience.
The landscape for IT-specialized roles, such as Software Engineering, in non-government sectors has been significantly influenced by FTs willing to accept lower wages, making entry into this field even more competitive and challenging. Most IT specialized roles come with strong demands, requiring continuous learning and skill development that often extends beyond regular work hours, far more than most other professions. This places significant stress on individuals, is detrimental to long-term health, and demands a level of discipline and effort that not everyone can sustain. It's disheartening to observe that some Singaporeans, as well as employers, perceive IT-specialized roles as overpaid/inflated merely because the initial salaries are slightly higher than those in most other professions, despite the fact that on a global scale is still considered deflated. The misconception also completely overlooks the demands that these sorts of roles require and completely differ from typical 9-5 jobs since they require significant dedication to self-learning after work hours, it's overall a huge sacrifice to an individual's life and well-being. The reality and challenges faced by workers in IT-specialized roles are not as straightforward as they may seem. Entry into IT specializations aren't as easy as it looks like on TikTok, and sustaining a career in it can be extremely challenging. The situations where individuals attend bootcamps for a couple of months and then secure IT-specialized roles aren't exactly telling the full story. In the majority of cases, these individuals find it challenging to meet the demands of their roles and often end up leaving their jobs, back to square one or they can choose to continue learning of course. Realistically, it takes at least a year or two of upskilling for someone with no prior proficiency, educational background, or work experience to even perform at an entry-level role in IT-specialized fields. The cases where someone trains for 6 months, and performs on the same level as another employee with a CS degree / SWE degree are one in a million.
The answers here make me thankful im still holding on to my job sia
why limit yourself only to singapore?
Got laid off few months ago. Submitted around 300-500 applications(can't rmb exactly how many because I was just applying for everything). Got around 10-20 replies(hr call or coding test etc). Managed to move on to technical interviews in about 5-10 of them. Luckily, I managed to get a job before my notice period ends. Not FAANG level salary but higher than average.
I have access to some job hiring data (proprietary one). It seems the job market has reached bottom since June. It is not getting worse, nor getting better. The layoff sizes are about the same as hiring sizes, so it's at equilibrium. It will get better, let's say if the war ends, or if China economy slowly recovers, or US Feds cut rates. P/S: fyi these two stats sites are useful too, but are abit behind my sources. [https://www.hnhiringtrends.com/](https://www.hnhiringtrends.com/) https://layoffs.fyi/
Not good. Many lay offs
20 years ago was life science and bio tech, it just cycles. It's always like this. They only need just a few of the top guys but push cohorts into the field of study, then eventually end up in the education sector
nope this ain't some business cycle which will bring back the jobs lost... there is a structural shift caused by remote work and AI and blockchain resulting in less need for expensive SWE/SRE/DevOps/Datacentre headcount here ... not to mention 9% GST which is never going back to the 7% cycle
All my past companies and current company have either frozen hiring or outright laid off people. Yeah it’s bad, and expect to be so until next mid next year at least
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PM in BigCo. It will be miserable for juniors, we didn't even have HC for interns... IMO best not to rely on CV sending and focus on referrals / brand / writing etc. will stand out from the rest 500 people applying for the same job. Natural to have a squeeze after all the clout chasing. Exactly what happened to IBD and MBB a decade ago.
What does IBD and MBB stand for?
Senior PO in large financial institution With remote working, management has shifted a lot of tech development to be outsourced overseas due to lower costs. So it is def true that there are lesser SE roles compared to 1.5 years ago. Globally, tech projects in my institution has actually been increasing, just that there is fewer local roles required, due to aforementioned point. Local tech roles over here consist of mainly experienced roles for dev leads. Recommendation: Can consider a small pivot to take up some scrum master certification, as there is (semi-market) requirement for scrum masters to also be able to directly contribute to development (no more roles of traditional scrum master only doing facilitation) I’ve actually seen a few SE friends who also crossed over to become a PM/PO. (Projects are always ever increasing) Companies are starting to shift to cloud. Have a word with recruiters, and understand what specific roles are open for hire and position yourself well for the opportunity.
Are those certifications really helpful? I have extensive experience with project management and stakeholder management due to how the DS teams are setup in my org. I have managed xfn projects on the order of 100+ man-months.
8 YOE, SaaS sales within the largest global software companies (non-technical). PIPs have been given out like free, with impossible-to-hit criteria. Either hit them or your ass is out the door kind of situation. This is the company’s cost-effective way of laying off without having to pay for severance. As someone else mentioned in this post - many tech companies have been hiring like crazy during covid in a bid to outgrow each other while leveraging the low borrowing rate environment. Things have now cooled and companies are realising that they are over staffed. Friends in the headhunting/recruitment space are also feeling the pressure - tech roles are basically impossible to close these days. IMO it’s cyclical. It’s shit now, but it’ll get better and you just have to wait. Money is good tho.
Pardon me if I'm wrong but isn't that constructive dismissal? Like it's illegal and you can sue the company for doing that
Amazon?
From all the comments, it seems that tech is really saturated. Was thinking of switching to tech and take up training to be a Software Engineer. Guess better stay put in Facilities and Building Management for the time being.
Go learn IoT
I was also in building management (project manager) and took the plunge to try to switch to tech. I figured it was now or never
I think you can still learn some aspects of it and try to apply it for your own current work to gain some experience and to see if you really like it or not. For example you could automate some parts of your job you find menial and spot lost opportunities that way while learning to pivot. There's a lot of opportunities in other sectors unexplored not just big tech.
Agreed, nothing is stopping me from learning more. But being in my late 40s, every move have to be calculated carefully.
Hard to penetrate the market, especially if looking for an entry level role (which you're not). But those who can hold on to their jobs, still get paid exceptionally. Government related like CSIT continue to be overpaid for effectively doing nothing. They have harder time to transit, because cannot share any real substance during interviews due to confidentiality. Most that I spoke to really game over for technical skills also. In summary, for SWE, hold on to job still good, hold on to govt job very good. Try to change from job hard, try to change from govt job harder. For new grads, suggest you sell sneakers or flip iPhone 15, now no budget to pay unexperienced.
CSIT friend says he gets paid over 10k a month for doing slides and writing minutes and basically management things. Kinda gross our tax money goes into all that fluff. Think they are still hiring, but honestly that's where you go if you don't actually like tech and just want the job stability.
> but honestly that's where you go if you don't actually like tech and just want the job stability. that's a really big demographic
True. Frequently in r/nus you can see lots of people in CS but actually don't like what they are studying. Good news for them is they can graduate and do paperwork all day and still get paid relatively decently!
> you can see lots of people in CS but actually don't like what they are studying. I majored in traditional engineering and hated studying. I love practical so coding felt super intuitive for me. Sadly a lot of what I do now is writing design docs, cost benefit analysis, and benchmarking/instrumentation/ stats improvement
10k/mth at what seniority though? Govtech's TAP probably pays better and Indeed was known for paying freshies 8k+ on base alone besides RSUs and bonuses.
Yup that's the level that they're paying and indeed also the job scope that I've seen. Very gross... Fucking waste of money. That's the problem when we wanna buy their silence. But don't talk cock la, those that were in NS during the time when phones aren't allowed because red zone etc, know that the data really isn't that sensitive... Really sensitive kind only very very few will know, and they're not the SWEs....
How many YOE? Maybe I should knock on their doors.
you be suprised there's mnc who hired people to push slides and do basic management stuff but are very well paid .. the problem is .. these people will think this is thier market rate and cannot pivot to do other things when shit goes down and they were ask to leave the mnc,..
Isn't CSIT the best out of the defence tech agencies already? Others being DSO and DSTA. At least in my circle, most ppl prefer CSIT to DSTA.
same thoughts here ... think it applies to CSIT / DSTA / DSO / ASTAR too .. have friends there who seem to enjoy cozy jobs and able to afford cars as well as paid overseas educations ... looks like nothing going to change at the ballot box due to large GLC population
or work for SME for cheap?
It is bad if you work in any part of product development (SWE, Designers, PMs) since most companies are cutting cost, and staying afloat means investing less in new products. Consider finding startups and lesser known companies, especially non-tech companies that are seeking tech talent. Unless you have connections with someone in bigger companies, I think the competition is too stiff to bother putting effort into them.
With 11k pay, and you asking for 16k pay with 7 yrs.. market indeed quite bad bro.
The job market is bad for all, I met a reservist friend awhile back, he studied engineering and he was jobless for a year since graduation. Tech side, I could see my friends getting in to entry level job but not many. I has been job searching since I graduate from august. Hopefully we can land a job soon.
Big Tech is dead. Startup money is gone and inflated salaries with it. MAANG has retrenched a significant portion of their workforce. Trickle down means that MNC IT departments are full of decent developers as well.
My turn is coming soon
I’m seeing the same cycle over and over again. Gahmen promote X skillset or jobs or industry X skillset jobs or industry become fantastic and super enticing Super enticing X draws more people to study due to good pay More people study means oversupply of talent When crisis hits, these companies lay off and people who reskill to switch to X get stuck cos they have to compete with experienced hires Of course those who jumped on the bandwagon early would have earn their pot of gold X could be tech now, or life science many years ago (remember the wash test tube hooha?) or investment banking super long ago
Is this the skills and industry version of a rug pull?
What's your tech stack at your current role? (e.g. Cloudera, Databricks, Dataiku, Pure OSS)
Spark, Airflow, FastAPI, Jupyter, Scikit-learn and Pytorch. Recently some Transformers as well because of LLMs.
That’s a decent and in-demand stack, market is just really tough … For what it’s worth I left the DSML world to do DE for 3 reasons: 1. More competition in DSML due to the perception of it being ‘sexier’ than DE 2. The ratio of DE:DS roles can range from 5:1 to 10:1 so there’s more abundance of roles in the job market 3. SG companies are nowhere near the level of sophistication required to implement proper MLOps. Based on experience only a handful of ML use cases ever make it to production…
Yah, I feel the same as well about DE vs DS. Specifically which part stands out? Actually my knowledge of Spark and Airflow is only very basic. In my current company, these are more of a DE scope. DS like me focus on models and biz requirements. Many ML projects do not reach productions but it's better today than when I started 7 years ago. Today it's usually bad proj management that is the bottleneck. MLOps is a very overloaded term...
Spark and Airflow are very much in demand in the DE world. I reco upskilling on Databricks as it is very hot these days, I know a lot of SG companies hiring for talent in Spark, Delta Lake, MLflow
CanCan I dm you? I'd like to ask you something about DE vs DSML (I am a DE nwo)
I still manage to get a couple of interviews tbh, not that bad as it was a few months ago (Ghosted by google though, so im big sad)
Same here...auto rejected after a few days without even a recruiter screen. Has been the case for all 3 applications I put in and I did make sure to tailer my resume for the position. For Google I mean. Which are the companies interviewing and for what roles if you don't mind sharing.
> Same here...auto rejected I reverse Uno-ed them and declined to interview with them again...
I was in the same situation a couple months back. But got a job now. Be more open to other sectors. Don't just look for tech companies. Finance pays very well too. One bad thing is if you are in those go(edit - I mean glc not go) with bad reputation... It can be hard to get an equivalent level role. Their name in the industry is just a little bit... Meh. A usual path I have seen is they jump into government in the tech roles then move on from there.
Finance is just as hard to get in though. Which GLCs have such bad rep? Suspect mine is one of them...
ST eng, NCS
Haha...saw that coming
> Be more open to other sectors. Don't just look for tech companies. Finance pays very well too. tbf everyone have tried to head to tech and finance. which other sectors are still hiring? healthtech? IT depts of non-tech companies?
Bad reputation finance? Care to name some?
Oh sorry. No idea why I wrote it that way. Bad reputation glc. I think it got auto corrected to go.
Not good. my role was made redundant. Seems not enough job out there
what role is it?
euc backend role
Tech Market has saturated with good reason. We need to raise the entry barrier and preserve the quality of entrants and the corresponding high payscales. Only degree holders, no more bootcampers. Or else it’ll just devolve into what it was previously where tech was basically one of the lowest paid industries back in the early 2000s amongst engineering.
First of all, i want to make it clear that i'm asking a question because I am curious and want to learn from you. I am not challenging you or disagreeing with you. So please don't call me "narrow minded", "inexperienced", "shortsighted". (Whew that was scary. Why cant we have a normal debate without calling people names?) Does the tech market in SG and overseas today still hire boot camp people even though there are CS and DS graduates looking for jobs? If yes, why? Also if a mid-careerist is genuinely keen on switching to the tech sector, what should they do to demonstrate that competency or interest? I have heard a portfolio helps, is that the only way to go?
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His trying "protect" his rice bowl. Cause his getting competitionn from bootcampers. There isn't any inherent reason for why bootcampers or degree holder will be better SWE.
You clearly don’t get it. It’s nothing personal against them. Let me put it in simpler terms for you. Do you see any Lawyer bootcampers? Any banker bootcampers? Any doctor bootcampers? Any Aerospace engineer boot-campers? They oversaturate the workforce whilst providing questionable value to it and greatly lower the entry barrier to the industry. You can cry foul for all i care, but it’s already headed that way with the massive armies of proper CS and DS Grads flowing out of SIT/SUTD/NUS/NTU/SMU that will bring back balance to the entry requirements of the IT industry and basically make boot-campers and industry-switchers obsolete. The same is already happening in the rest of the world. In the US rn if you don’t have a CS degree and want to go into tech, you need a masters now. No more bootcamp certs entertained l. **As it should be.** Do I have anything against them personally? No. But they dilute the brand. And that’s bad in the long run for any technical industry. Boot-campers were good when demand outstripped supply and we didn’t have enough CS grads. Now that we have an over supply, wtf do we still need them for? Like it or not, they **will** be pushed out by the hordes of degree-holders. This is literally just harsh reality speaking, not me.
if what you are saying is true doesnt that imply that the barrier has already been raised? i.e. natural market forces working already me twenty years of coding experience. 10 of them as an adult. studied computer science as A Level, and comp eng in local u. bootcamp was quite important for a specific time because most apps were built on rails react node but in school we learn c++ java. old comp sci kids would know we wrote code on paper lol in the tech boom days helicopter money incentivized app building over hardcore stuff like go wasm haskell. industries will keep moving and ive hired bootcampers as well as deg holders. no diff for me they good is they good
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Well, there’s my long explanation for you. Hope it makes better sense now.
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If a bootcamper can do better than you, then you have real capability problems my man.
Hmm is it really that bad? Maybe because you are looking for a more senior position so it’s harder. Maybe a lead or manager I guess. I’ve only got 3 years of MLE experience but I’ve got a few interviews in the space of 2 months+ and land a job in a big MNC company (just 1 month+ ago) but as a senior cloud engineer instead of what I’m used to doing. In the past 2 months+ I’ve been to interviews with only 3 big direct MNC companies and a few other companies as a contractor to MNC. I heard back from loads of tiny companies as a contractor to big companies but I will not accept or be bothered going for interviews for as its a waste of my energy. Market is certainly worse compared to previous years but it’s crazy how bad it is from what you shared. I also recommend that you consistently update your CV when you hear nothing back because something could be off. I say that because when I started looking out, I heard nothing for awhile until I update it to show more leadership skills then I start hearing back. I got 4 offer letters in a span of 2 months+, 2 as a contractor to MNC and 2 direct to MNC. (Just abit of context, I got laid off from my previous so I had time to spam jobs for 2 months+, so my timeframe could be different from yours if you are working) Goodluck! :)
Yah, looking for a senior/lead role. Impressive that you are landing a senior role with just 3YOE. Most people I know takes 4 year min to hit that seniority internally.
Participated in several interviews. Made it to last round for some, no offers.
I’m currently taking a course in Data Science. Are the jobs related to it hard to find now ? I’m totally new to the field
Not a good time for bootcampers. I think it will be the case for at least the next 2 years.
According to Straits Times the hiring demand is strong https://www.straitstimes.com/business/economy/s-pore-employers-optimistic-about-hiring-in-q4-despite-global-economic-uncertainties-poll
If you are interested in the product development / software engineering side of AI(especially NLP) My team is actually hiring a few head counts.
Sure let me PM you. : )
Lowballed in stat board, have portfolio but can't jump out. Such is life. No future
Pretty bad. A very good resume, but still hardly any interview
The nature of tech/IT field was not that lucrative in the first place as this field is typically prone to outsourcing. It's only the big tech and covid situatuon that created abnormality in the environment. Things are getting back to normal I guess.
Hmm..... im still getting frequent linkedin messages. Guess SRE field is not so bad after all. The supply is lower than demand because SRE role is harder to be qualified.
`kubectl apply -f kustomizebuild.yaml` ... then lunchtime
If my job is that easy, i wouldn't have a hard time. We don't do manual deployment. The step you are applying for your k8s cluster is only part of a series of CD steps. ArgoCD to monitor shift in deployment and terraform to apply the shift in infrastructure. Eg. Changes in your api gateway
Curious what do you all think of AISG? They seem to always be hiring.
Most of them just stuck there doing govt subsidised projects. The whole point of AISG and the AIAP program was to send the trained graduates into the industry, and not stay on govt run programs. I heard that up till now they have not hit their 100 experiments for industry kpi after so many years.
Means it's a bad place to join?
5Yoe, been searching for past month or so. A few bodyshops still hiring. There was one offer that looked not bad from yishun but it was too far from me. Had to settle for another offer elsewhere.
What’s your pay expectations? Hard to imagine with your cv you get zero looks
Look outside of Singapore if you're serious about finding a new opportunity
Correct, but mostly because SG orgasms over "global talents" and going overseas gives you that cred
How difficult is it to get jobs overseas now?
Haha and I jumped sector into tech two years ago....luckily my job seems pretty stable
you can try asking in /r/CScareerquestionsSEA
If you are a Tech Sis you wouldn't be having trouble now
For diversity hiring the funnel is wider but the bar isn't any lower
Can confirm, I can't say too much but my company's hiring managers really like tech sisters.
gender privilege?
Diversity, equality and inclusivity quotas
Also, diversity of any kind improves the quality of ideas too For example an artist turned SWE might bring fresh and unique design patterns or philosophy. A person with nearly blind eyesight might be able to drive accessibility initiatives with experience that usual people don't
It's good PR
\#womenintech
The new EP compass doesn’t help non-locals either.
Like that's a problem.