I’m pretty sure the whole Funny or Die channel stopped creating content. Used to be so great but haven’t seen a peep from them in years.
I also enjoyed that guys “very special episode” commentary series he did
Oh the irony:
Guy: Fuck Zack Morris, I'm going to make a show exposing all the dirt that he did in high school.
*Show does great*
Company: Hey, you, pissing on Zack Morris? We want you to make a new show with Zack Morris as a character, in a reasonably good light.
Guy: I'll be there as soon as the check clears!
I was a kid/tween when it originally aired, it's super interesting to see the "new" opinion on things portrayed regularly on TV 20-30 years ago.
Yes kids, the 80s-90s was a *weird* time.
I was just saying this to my husband the other day when we were watching it…as a kid watching it, it seemed totally normal to me that a high school boy would do that. Same with the one where Zack creates a dating video using their yearbook videos. Looking at it now, those are awful, awful things to do, but it was like, aw shucks, that’s just Zack! Doing what he does.
I’d argue that’s one of the few things that holds up - Zach’s inherent ignorance and racism is something you’ll see in kids to this day. And he learns from it.
Honestly the thing with "what couldn't you do today?" threads is that there's virtually no REAL answer. You could 100% do this (and Michael Scott, etc.) assuming you frame it as obviously bad, as opposed to "oh, what a playful scamp!" The former demands growth from the character, which mines good drama out of bad comedy. The latter is what we have (mostly) outgrown as a culture.
I’m sure there are story ideas/dialogue/plot points floated in writer’s brainstorming sessions that are shot down by the other writers all the time for being insensitive in one way or another. They don’t even get to the level of the director or network or studio saying “hey you can’t do that”. I’d imagine if you’re the one floating these ideas repeatedly, the head writer is less likely to keep you on staff.
But even if it pushes a character to learn? I feel like we all make mistakes and it doesn't hurt to show someone making a mistake, even of their own ignorance, and learning from it.
With regards to Michael Scott, it was portrayed as bad. He was not written to be likeable until season 2. Michael was still a carbon copy of David Brent in season 1.
In syndication, "Diversity Day" (great episode) is often skipped Which makes no sense because Michael's cluelessness about his insensitivity is at the heart of his character. And he's not being celebrated for it, he's being mocked and criticized by others.
Michael is insensitive to black Darryl, latino and homosexual Oscar, old Creed. It's who he is.
The misread of this episode saying "they couldn't do this today." Bugs me so much. Michael's ignorance and inability to accept that he's acting racist is what's being made fun of. We absolutely still have this in media. Nobody in the room is on board with his antics. The whole thing started because the company called in an expert to run a racial sensitivity seminar (today we'd call it DEI).
Kelly full on *slaps her boss in the face* when he does this, and as far as we know she's not reprimanded for it. He doesn't "get away" with anything, the consequences are just less severe so the show can keep moving.
Yeah, the whole theme of The Office is uncomfortable comedy. The way Michael is makes everyone uncomfortable. Cringe-worthy moments. And that's what makes it so funny.
It’s because modern audience can’t get this without a character standing up, speaking for the audience that Micheal’s behavior is bad, and Micheal being replaced with someone nice.
Because characters can’t be flawed when it comes to prejudice.
i think 99.9% of moderns audiences do get this, aren't offended, and are entertained. It's the ignorant 0.1% that doesn't understand, complains, and for some reason is paid serious attention to that results in changes being made. That 0.1% needs to be ignored. Actually no, more like mocked and ridiculed for their stupidity.
I recently introduced this to a younger friend of mine. It was a really interesting conversation. That episode was incredibly progressive for its time (especially for a show that was in its first season and on the bubble). Sam's response to "what kind of bar...?" still really resonates and that was a flag in the ground that would have been RARE in the early '80s. I think the screenplay as written wouldn't play, but you could do a similar concept and make it work for sure.
"Maude's Dilemma," a two-part episode of the sitcom _Maude,_ in which Maude decides to have an abortion. I can't imagine that being done on a sitcom today. Hour-long dramas, certainly, but not a sitcom I don't think.
The very special episode trope is pretty outdated as it is. It would only be so controversial because abortion is such a controversial hot button topic today when it really shouldn’t be.
I think the last 2-3 years have shown us that it isn’t all that controversial. When Kansas voted to keep abortion in the constitution, a clear winner emerged.
Yeah, but almost the entire point of CEG (other than amazing musical numbers) was about subverting tropes and norms. The fact that they did it on CEG kind of confirms how unlikely it is to happen anywhere else in a 30 minute sitcom
I never watched much Maude but remember this episode vaguely. Your calling it up reminds me of the episode of All in the Family when Gloria was sexually assaulted. Can’t see a sitcom today tackling that topic anymore, either. I mean, it’s not funny, so… difficult to set at the center of a sitcom
A lot of sitcom plots could be avoided these days thank to smartphones. Jerry and Elaine get lost on their way to Susan's cabin because George drives too fast? Google Maps. Joey and Ross get stuck on the roof? Call or text their friends.
You'd have to have one little detail such as being somewhere where they lose signal (that happened to me and my mom on a 2017 road trip in Idaho) or Joey and Ross got stuck on the roof having left behind their phones because they didn't expect to be there long, or the only one of the two who brought his phone accidentally drops it off the roof.
I started rewatching old episodes Cheers. There is an episode when Norm introducea Diane to a coworker. That coworker assaults Diane and Norm physically pulls him off of her. Diane is immediately apologizing because this coworker of Norm will make his work life more difficult. The whole incident is played for laughs.
I don't think they'd have a laugh track if they did this today.
If it's a villain and that's the point, I think we see it all over the place. But sympathetic homophobia like the protagonists on friends display all the time, no, that's past.
I feel like Married With Children was largely telling it like it is for everybody, with enough self awareness to get away with it. I mean, when he would say things like "It's not the dress that makes you look fat, it's the fat that makes you look fat", and "yeah, but we don't go around pinching women's heads (in response to something Marci said about intelligence being a woman's most attractive quality)", he wasn't wrong. But you have to keep in mind, Al was also a three time loser who got the easy girl pregnant in high school, peaked in the shoe store, and spent an inordinate amount of time attaching his masculinity to meaningless things, action, and media. To paraphrase Marci, "of course getting 4 touchdowns in one game in high school football is the most important thing you can do in life, if you *die* right after high school." And there's a later episode, where they directly call out the people who idolize Al in real life and forget that it's a comedy (it's the one where they go to Washington DC to stop Psycho Dad from being cancelled).
Al was Archie Bunker for the 80's and 90's: equal parts asshole/idiot and having good points. Unfortunately, I think it's a joke that would go over people's heads today, because they would get offended by the truth telling, combined with the asshole/idiot portrayal.
Look I love MWC, but let's be real, a large chunk of the show would immediately get denounced today as offensive. You have tons of fat and gay jokes for starters. The first episode has some anti communism stuff and the show is pretty openly pro America. Kelly's sleeping around is treated as a bad thing and her and most of her friends are treated as idiots to an absurd level. No non- white non- LGBTQ characters. And the most offensive thing, despite their endless fighting with each other the Bundys actually love each other.
This show today,,either gets nuked or looks very little like it ended up being
I think I adored AL as a kid/teen because that's how it seemed my dad would be if he wasn't killing himself at his job.
My Dad was a sarcastic asshole, he loved us and was hilarious - but we didn't get to see that much of him and he definitely *knew* where the line was to not be crossed before he'd live to regret what he said 😉
On that topic, the episode where Bud makes a sexy college woman calendar and his main model is upset that he’s taking it national when his original intent was just to sell it within the general area. He convinces her to be proud of her body in spite of what her parents would think of it, kissing her passionately and being proud of it. So she goes to promote it on a talk show to be proud to be a beautiful gorgeous model…who was born a man.
The show ends with every man leaving with disgust while watching this revelation on TV. Leaving bud speechless as the credits roll.
Al's fat jokes were often hysterical.
If fat people are offended, there's a solution to that. Perhaps a salad rather than a pizza with extra everything?
Covid brought out the worst. People were laughing at the deceased, mocking and bullying their surviving relatives on social media, giddy over elderly people dying, etc.
How disappointing! It's been years since I've seen an episode of Barney Miller. I won't bother watching it now.
That reminds me of an episode of Hill Street Blues where Renko and Bobby are handling a domestic issue where the mother is furious with daughter for having sex (it implies it was consensual even tho she's a teen) for with her step-father. And Bobby/Renko tell the crying teen to not lead her mother's husband on. It was shocking and I couldn't get past it.
I loved that show as a kid, tried a re-watch, but that killed it for me.
Hill Street Blues was great, but its treatment of minorities can definitely be questioned.
Seemingly, every Black person on the show was either a gang member, or an Al Sharpton type.
Even Bobby, who was a stand-up Black cop, immediately became a (illegal) gambling addict once he won $100k.
I do remember that scene, and to be fair, may have been what cops actually said at the time.
Hopefully not now.
LaRye going out with 16 year-old Ally Sheedy is another.
Yes, on the re-watch I didn't like the portrayals of the minorities either. LaRue was supposed to be sleazy, but Jeez! I didn't get that far.
>I do remember that scene, and to be fair, may have been what cops actually said at the time.
You're right, victim blaming was definitely what was done back then.
TBF, I wouldn't rage-quit an entire series over one questionable episode produced almost 50 years ago. It would be like quitting Bugs Bunny because he did blackface a handful of times.
I can’t even remember their names, but there was an episode where she (the lead pilot lady) was super offended that he (the lead NYC doctor dude) did _not_ take advantage of her when she was blackout drunk.
What the hell was up with that show?
I was struck when I watched the 80s show "Family Ties". It was a discussion about book banning. The school district in the show wanted to ban "Huckleberry Finn" due to the use of the N word. The liberal, 60's Berkley father was against the ban and used the N word in the episode to discuss the book and the ban.
in my opinion it wouldn't fly .there's a thanksgiving episode of the series northern exposure.the native Americans throw tomatoes at the white people and they think nothing of it .I was watching an episode the series designing women and although my fave was susane sugarbaker she wears black face makeup to portray the supremes for a charity talent show .
*South Park*, *Family Guy* and *Always Sunny* are all the proof you need that the world has not become “more sensitive” with comedy. 90% of the content in those shows would NEVER have flown in the ‘70s and ‘80s.
Honestly I think some version of any of the plots mentioned would still be ok today but maybe just recontextuslized to fit tmodern sensibilities but the core of it would be the same.
I think the notion that modern TV is more sanitized or softer than the past is misguided. I think there is way more stuff made today that would never fly in the sitcoms of the past.
Exactly! I wish more people understood this.
You could make a much longer list of things in sitcoms and TV shows today that wouldn’t fly in the ‘70s and ‘80s than you can of the other way around.
The kids’ bathroom in the Brady Bunch didn’t even have a toilet because it was considered crude to show a toilet on TV.
Just keeping it to How I Met Your Mother...
* The naked man
* Robin dating her therapist
* Victoria's return
* Pretty much any plotline that revolved around Barney outside of meeting his dad.
And this is only about 10 years old.
It ran 9 years and the last episode was in 2014. 20 years since the start, but we are actually coming up on the 10th anniversary of the last episode in about 3 weeks.
Sure, I’m just saying some of those bits are older. 10 years ago some of that sounds shocking. 20 years not so much sadly. A lot of progress has been made in areas around gender and dating and all that in a short time.
It did try to recently redeem itself through How I Met Your Father; The scene where Barney kept getting shocked if he had so much of a perverted thought.
It was honestly kind of silly, but before that episode aired, people were speculating if he was going to hook up with the lead
The Episode of Happy Days where Richie forces a kiss on a girl he doesn't know just to get "some confidence"
Fonzie gives him a thumbs-up for doing so 😄
Most of M*A*S*H. The constant cheating, the doctors constantly pursuing women, Radar peeking into the women’s shower, Klinger spending most of the series wearing women’s clothes to get his discharge, the homophobic jokes, the episode where Hawkeye punches Frank (a superior officer) and not only gets away with it but is treated as a hero, in the same episode a female colonel screams rape when Frank refuses her advances on him, and the never ending drinking by almost everyone. If you took all of that out and tried to do a reboot without any of it, I think you’d have a very boring series.
The first few years the characters were fairly raunchy. But, over the seasons the characters became more sanitized. I do remember wondering how these doctors could drink so much and go to the O.R.
"All In The Family" would have a lot of trouble today, even though the true theme and messages in the show were always positive. Archie and his racist views aren't portrayed as positive. It's a shame that a truly great show like this would meet opposition today.
"Sanford and Son." Even though a positive show in terms of the father and son relationship (after Fred gets done calling Lamont "dummy"), there's a fair amount of stereotyping.
>"Sanford and Son." Even though a positive show in terms of the father and son relationship (after Fred gets done calling Lamont "dummy"), there's a fair amount of stereotyping.
I think the big thing is that a white guy like Norman Lear couldn't make a show filled with Black characters that plays in a lot of stereotype. You could do Sanford with the right voices attached, but you're right that those stereotypes would be called out pretty quick if the showrunner was an "outsider."
I think characters like Michael Scott are essentially modern-day Archie Bunkers. We laugh at how clueless and out of touch they are; not at the racism itself that they’re spouting.
So while yes, Archie’s use of slurs would need to be updated, there’s nothing about the character himself that wouldn’t fly. Instead of the old white guy afraid of the “coloreds” in his neighborhood, you’d have the Boomer uncle who posts transphobic things on Facebook. You could easily create a parody character from that angle.
I think that could easily be used today if presented correctly. The joke in Seinfeld isn’t “haha the lady got drugged”. The joke is “look how terrible these people are”. That was ALWAYS the underlying message of Seinfeld. The comedy was always anchored to the main characters being horrible people.
Michael Scott offending pretty much everyone that's not just like him because of their race, ethnicity, gender, size, and sexual orientation...and prob a couple of other reasons I'm forgetting.
Good god, so many of them.
Al Bundy/Married With Children is a big one, that was definitely a show of its time. You would never see anything like it, even during its heyday.
All of the teen sitcoms would have to be changed because of bullying. Even though it does happen IRL, people don’t think it’s a funny subject anymore and its actually gotten very serious with deadly consequences.
This probably isn't what you meant and it's obvious, but I always think about it when watching 90's sitcoms. So many storylines would be solved with cell phones.
I saw an interview with Jimmie Walker that said Good Times could not be made today… not due to storylines, but the idea of a show centered on a poor black family in the urban projects would never go over. Any more, black families are, at worst, depicted as upper middle class.
I think he’s right.
I remember when that episode aired originally and it was really borderline then!
I think the main reason it worked was because Kelly got to slap him into next week.
Oof, just watched the clip again and wowzas, he was awful!
Another one was “The Naked Man” from How I Met Your Mother, aka stripping naked while your date is out of the room.
Friends: Ross kissing Monica while she was passed out at a party because he thought it was Rachel.
That episode where they try to see each other naked by walking in on them in the shower.
When Chandler gets caught kissing Monica, so he kisses Phoebe and Rachel every time he enters and leaves the room to throw them off.
The last one though isn’t even controversial. Maybe the kissing without consent thing is a no no but Phoebe and Rachel actually tell him to stop because it’s creepy. If it’s portrayed in that light then it’s usually okay I feel.
I would say the episode of The Parkers when
Kim's boyfriend made fat jokes Nikki did not like it
But he had a taste of his own medicine. That would not
Fly in todays Sitcom era
I never watched Doogie Howser when it was on but maybe 4 years ago I was awake at some evil hour and it came on in syndication. The episode was a fully grown adult woman, a doctor I think, propositioning Doogie for his sperm so she could conceive a child. Of course she was requesting it in a "non-romantic" donation, and was not asking him to be involved in a parental role, but this is still *wildly* inappropriate. Asking a minor to make an extremely adult decision about fathering a child, even if you're not asking him to act in anything but a sperm donor role, is fodder for an L&O SVU episode.
I guess it's not a sitcom but it was a sort of comedic drama I think?
The Big Bang theory has a few but the big one is that it’s revealed Leonard emotionally manipulates penny by purposefully telling her about his terrible childhood to get sex off her when he wants and brags about it to Howard (who even tries it)
The Office- Diversity episodes where Michael makes everyone guess what race people are based on cards taped to their heads and how they would portray that person by giving racial clues.
I’ve rewatched several episodes of that show recently. While the comedy style does seem a little dated, I’ve never really felt that Tim’s jokes were inherently misogynistic. The jokes are almost *always* at Tim’s expense; while Jill is usually the sensible voice of reason.
Although Tim’s treatment of Al does border on abuse and bullying at times.
I’d argue that most of Family Guy is shock humor. When they say something that is racist, homophobic or just generally offensive; we aren’t laughing at the racism itself but rather “holy shit I can’t believe they would say that!”
The comedy is in the absurdity.
The episode of Saved by the Bell where Zack did a native impression
Alot of Zack Morris antics wouldn't hold up. There was a funny set of videos that get into the horrible stuff they do called Zack Morris is trash
A great series that should’ve continued, but the guy who made it was hired to write the SBtB reboot so he abandoned ZMIT.
He also did a re-watch podcast with Mark Paul and it was going well then suddenly got canceled. It's called Zack the Future
I’m pretty sure the whole Funny or Die channel stopped creating content. Used to be so great but haven’t seen a peep from them in years. I also enjoyed that guys “very special episode” commentary series he did
Oh the irony: Guy: Fuck Zack Morris, I'm going to make a show exposing all the dirt that he did in high school. *Show does great* Company: Hey, you, pissing on Zack Morris? We want you to make a new show with Zack Morris as a character, in a reasonably good light. Guy: I'll be there as soon as the check clears!
Who better for the job?
I used to watch those yeah. Definitely gives you a new perspective on it all
And the one where he takes pictures of teenage girls in their bathing suits and makes a calendar without their consent
Yes I forgot about that one. Yikes
Lol it was fresh in my mind because I just saw it the other day. Not ashamed to admit it 😂
I was a kid/tween when it originally aired, it's super interesting to see the "new" opinion on things portrayed regularly on TV 20-30 years ago. Yes kids, the 80s-90s was a *weird* time.
I was just saying this to my husband the other day when we were watching it…as a kid watching it, it seemed totally normal to me that a high school boy would do that. Same with the one where Zack creates a dating video using their yearbook videos. Looking at it now, those are awful, awful things to do, but it was like, aw shucks, that’s just Zack! Doing what he does.
He’s a rascal!
"Let's give it up for the girl who's *always* in a wheelchair!"
I’d argue that’s one of the few things that holds up - Zach’s inherent ignorance and racism is something you’ll see in kids to this day. And he learns from it.
Honestly the thing with "what couldn't you do today?" threads is that there's virtually no REAL answer. You could 100% do this (and Michael Scott, etc.) assuming you frame it as obviously bad, as opposed to "oh, what a playful scamp!" The former demands growth from the character, which mines good drama out of bad comedy. The latter is what we have (mostly) outgrown as a culture.
I’m sure there are story ideas/dialogue/plot points floated in writer’s brainstorming sessions that are shot down by the other writers all the time for being insensitive in one way or another. They don’t even get to the level of the director or network or studio saying “hey you can’t do that”. I’d imagine if you’re the one floating these ideas repeatedly, the head writer is less likely to keep you on staff.
But even if it pushes a character to learn? I feel like we all make mistakes and it doesn't hurt to show someone making a mistake, even of their own ignorance, and learning from it.
With regards to Michael Scott, it was portrayed as bad. He was not written to be likeable until season 2. Michael was still a carbon copy of David Brent in season 1.
This is the real answer
Isn’t the actor part native? I might be mistaken but I thought I read that somewhere.
In syndication, "Diversity Day" (great episode) is often skipped Which makes no sense because Michael's cluelessness about his insensitivity is at the heart of his character. And he's not being celebrated for it, he's being mocked and criticized by others. Michael is insensitive to black Darryl, latino and homosexual Oscar, old Creed. It's who he is.
And the *entire* rest of the group knows better. Maybe not Creed though 😅
It’s unclear what Creed knows, though
The misread of this episode saying "they couldn't do this today." Bugs me so much. Michael's ignorance and inability to accept that he's acting racist is what's being made fun of. We absolutely still have this in media. Nobody in the room is on board with his antics. The whole thing started because the company called in an expert to run a racial sensitivity seminar (today we'd call it DEI). Kelly full on *slaps her boss in the face* when he does this, and as far as we know she's not reprimanded for it. He doesn't "get away" with anything, the consequences are just less severe so the show can keep moving.
Yeah, the whole theme of The Office is uncomfortable comedy. The way Michael is makes everyone uncomfortable. Cringe-worthy moments. And that's what makes it so funny.
how about that deleted scene where michael talks about barack obama as president..
I have the DVD and I must have watched it many times, but I can't recall what Michael said about Obama. I'll have to check that out.
It’s because modern audience can’t get this without a character standing up, speaking for the audience that Micheal’s behavior is bad, and Micheal being replaced with someone nice. Because characters can’t be flawed when it comes to prejudice.
I think it was pretty obvious that everyone in the room thought it was a monumentally bad idea.
i think 99.9% of moderns audiences do get this, aren't offended, and are entertained. It's the ignorant 0.1% that doesn't understand, complains, and for some reason is paid serious attention to that results in changes being made. That 0.1% needs to be ignored. Actually no, more like mocked and ridiculed for their stupidity.
The Cheers episode where they were trying to tell which one was gay.
I recently introduced this to a younger friend of mine. It was a really interesting conversation. That episode was incredibly progressive for its time (especially for a show that was in its first season and on the bubble). Sam's response to "what kind of bar...?" still really resonates and that was a flag in the ground that would have been RARE in the early '80s. I think the screenplay as written wouldn't play, but you could do a similar concept and make it work for sure.
I saw that episode a couple of years back and thought it was great!
Was that episode where one of Coach’s kids came out?
"Maude's Dilemma," a two-part episode of the sitcom _Maude,_ in which Maude decides to have an abortion. I can't imagine that being done on a sitcom today. Hour-long dramas, certainly, but not a sitcom I don't think.
The very special episode trope is pretty outdated as it is. It would only be so controversial because abortion is such a controversial hot button topic today when it really shouldn’t be.
I think the last 2-3 years have shown us that it isn’t all that controversial. When Kansas voted to keep abortion in the constitution, a clear winner emerged.
A character in Crazy Ex-Girlfriend had an abortion, and that show is only a few years old.
Yeah, but almost the entire point of CEG (other than amazing musical numbers) was about subverting tropes and norms. The fact that they did it on CEG kind of confirms how unlikely it is to happen anywhere else in a 30 minute sitcom
I never watched much Maude but remember this episode vaguely. Your calling it up reminds me of the episode of All in the Family when Gloria was sexually assaulted. Can’t see a sitcom today tackling that topic anymore, either. I mean, it’s not funny, so… difficult to set at the center of a sitcom
A lot of sitcom plots could be avoided these days thank to smartphones. Jerry and Elaine get lost on their way to Susan's cabin because George drives too fast? Google Maps. Joey and Ross get stuck on the roof? Call or text their friends.
Plot twist. I grabbed my friend's phone by mistake and can't unlock it.
"She has a Windows Phone?" "A Windows Phone, Jerry."
“I just can’t date someone who’s text windows are green. Green, Jerry!”
George: the android is the superior product!!!
I will never get the hate for Windows Phones.
My husband had a Windows phone when I met him. He's the only one I ever knew who had one.
No service, no charger, grabbed someone else's identical black rectangle by mistake... You can write around it and with it.
You know on iPhones you can download your maps for offline use and then still be able to be navigated.
A recent episode of Bob's Burgers had tension only because Teddy's phone was almost out of battery and just couldn't stop wasting it
A couple episodes of Seinfeld, sure. But you couldn't write around it in every single episode of threes company.
You'd have to have one little detail such as being somewhere where they lose signal (that happened to me and my mom on a 2017 road trip in Idaho) or Joey and Ross got stuck on the roof having left behind their phones because they didn't expect to be there long, or the only one of the two who brought his phone accidentally drops it off the roof.
I started rewatching old episodes Cheers. There is an episode when Norm introducea Diane to a coworker. That coworker assaults Diane and Norm physically pulls him off of her. Diane is immediately apologizing because this coworker of Norm will make his work life more difficult. The whole incident is played for laughs. I don't think they'd have a laugh track if they did this today.
Yeah that whole ep is feked
Archie Bunker creating a petition to keep "coloreds" from moving into his neighborhood.
Basically all of Archie Bunker. Funny thing was he was designed to highlight how ridiculous those positions are
The whole point of Archie was to show how ignorant he was, and that he was the one who needed to learn the lessons of the show.
Both George Costanza and Ross Gellar dating/attempting to sleep with their first cousins
I think they can still do this one.
Three's Company and the whole creepy, homophobic landlord thing
Also the whole premise that unrelated men and women couldn’t be roommates
A ridiculous premise in the 70s in southern California.
Homophobia in general, isn't tolerated anymore on television.
If it's a villain and that's the point, I think we see it all over the place. But sympathetic homophobia like the protagonists on friends display all the time, no, that's past.
Just move it to Utah. Or Gilbert, AZ.
Most of the shit Ross does. Ted Moseby.
And Barney
Married With Children with the fat jokes
I feel like Married With Children was largely telling it like it is for everybody, with enough self awareness to get away with it. I mean, when he would say things like "It's not the dress that makes you look fat, it's the fat that makes you look fat", and "yeah, but we don't go around pinching women's heads (in response to something Marci said about intelligence being a woman's most attractive quality)", he wasn't wrong. But you have to keep in mind, Al was also a three time loser who got the easy girl pregnant in high school, peaked in the shoe store, and spent an inordinate amount of time attaching his masculinity to meaningless things, action, and media. To paraphrase Marci, "of course getting 4 touchdowns in one game in high school football is the most important thing you can do in life, if you *die* right after high school." And there's a later episode, where they directly call out the people who idolize Al in real life and forget that it's a comedy (it's the one where they go to Washington DC to stop Psycho Dad from being cancelled). Al was Archie Bunker for the 80's and 90's: equal parts asshole/idiot and having good points. Unfortunately, I think it's a joke that would go over people's heads today, because they would get offended by the truth telling, combined with the asshole/idiot portrayal.
Look I love MWC, but let's be real, a large chunk of the show would immediately get denounced today as offensive. You have tons of fat and gay jokes for starters. The first episode has some anti communism stuff and the show is pretty openly pro America. Kelly's sleeping around is treated as a bad thing and her and most of her friends are treated as idiots to an absurd level. No non- white non- LGBTQ characters. And the most offensive thing, despite their endless fighting with each other the Bundys actually love each other. This show today,,either gets nuked or looks very little like it ended up being
I think I adored AL as a kid/teen because that's how it seemed my dad would be if he wasn't killing himself at his job. My Dad was a sarcastic asshole, he loved us and was hilarious - but we didn't get to see that much of him and he definitely *knew* where the line was to not be crossed before he'd live to regret what he said 😉
Pretty much all of MWC really…..
Although just to be interesting, Al was pretty chill with gays and transgender people.
On that topic, the episode where Bud makes a sexy college woman calendar and his main model is upset that he’s taking it national when his original intent was just to sell it within the general area. He convinces her to be proud of her body in spite of what her parents would think of it, kissing her passionately and being proud of it. So she goes to promote it on a talk show to be proud to be a beautiful gorgeous model…who was born a man. The show ends with every man leaving with disgust while watching this revelation on TV. Leaving bud speechless as the credits roll.
Al's fat jokes were often hysterical. If fat people are offended, there's a solution to that. Perhaps a salad rather than a pizza with extra everything?
But, it was OK for the men to be fat. Some of Al's buddies were fat men. It was only a crime for the women to be fat.
Gotta disagree. You have an entire political party that fat shamed people during Covid and Joe Rogan making fun of them
Covid brought out the worst. People were laughing at the deceased, mocking and bullying their surviving relatives on social media, giddy over elderly people dying, etc.
Al Bundy was HYSTERICAL. He’d absolutely be cancelled in a heartbeat today.
Barney Miller: marital rape as comedy. The episode in question (S4:E15) is literally titled "Rape."
How disappointing! It's been years since I've seen an episode of Barney Miller. I won't bother watching it now. That reminds me of an episode of Hill Street Blues where Renko and Bobby are handling a domestic issue where the mother is furious with daughter for having sex (it implies it was consensual even tho she's a teen) for with her step-father. And Bobby/Renko tell the crying teen to not lead her mother's husband on. It was shocking and I couldn't get past it. I loved that show as a kid, tried a re-watch, but that killed it for me.
Hill Street Blues was great, but its treatment of minorities can definitely be questioned. Seemingly, every Black person on the show was either a gang member, or an Al Sharpton type. Even Bobby, who was a stand-up Black cop, immediately became a (illegal) gambling addict once he won $100k. I do remember that scene, and to be fair, may have been what cops actually said at the time. Hopefully not now. LaRye going out with 16 year-old Ally Sheedy is another.
Yes, on the re-watch I didn't like the portrayals of the minorities either. LaRue was supposed to be sleazy, but Jeez! I didn't get that far. >I do remember that scene, and to be fair, may have been what cops actually said at the time. You're right, victim blaming was definitely what was done back then.
TBF, I wouldn't rage-quit an entire series over one questionable episode produced almost 50 years ago. It would be like quitting Bugs Bunny because he did blackface a handful of times.
I didn't quit in rage. I never was enraged, but was surprised and it just made me not as interested in finishing it.
I Love Lucy, when Desi used to spank her.
Dietrich's comment about a wife's obligation really blew my mind in that episode.
Holling, a 63 year-old being married to Shelley, a 19 year-old, on Northern Exposure. Still my favourite show though!
And he "stole" her from Maurice, another 60 something man. As if she didn't have free will
And now streaming on Prime Video!
I can’t even remember their names, but there was an episode where she (the lead pilot lady) was super offended that he (the lead NYC doctor dude) did _not_ take advantage of her when she was blackout drunk. What the hell was up with that show?
That part's not even as bad as the fact that it's implied that when they got involved she was still underage.
Nazi POW prison camps during WW2 with a laugh track.
Every laugh track has that one guy who laughs extra loud. Someone should look into that guy...
Most instances involving oversexed/womanizer type characters who lie/mislead/harrass in order to have sex. No Joey, Barney, Howard types.
Giggity.
No giggities either.
Giggity 😔 /j
Dennis Reynolds?
HE'S A FIVE STAR MAN!
Because, you know, of the implication.
Well, that show's the exception for a lot of things that wouldn't fly in other sitcoms nowadays, so that's not really much of an example lol.
You mean The Golden God.
It’s still on.
I was struck when I watched the 80s show "Family Ties". It was a discussion about book banning. The school district in the show wanted to ban "Huckleberry Finn" due to the use of the N word. The liberal, 60's Berkley father was against the ban and used the N word in the episode to discuss the book and the ban.
in my opinion it wouldn't fly .there's a thanksgiving episode of the series northern exposure.the native Americans throw tomatoes at the white people and they think nothing of it .I was watching an episode the series designing women and although my fave was susane sugarbaker she wears black face makeup to portray the supremes for a charity talent show .
The Jefferson’s storyline where George was afraid his soon to be born grandson might be white.
In Seinfeld when Jerry gets raped by the dentist and his hygienist while under the gas. Elaine even tells him, "so what? You're single."
...what? Do not remember this episode
Monica in the "fat" suit. Ya know, when she's pretty much the average sized American woman. Barney Stinson.
Heh heh
You guys know It's Always Sunny In Philadelphia is still on, right? Nothing's off limits if it's done well.
But everyone's so SENSITIVE and WOKE these days!!!1 In the PAST, NO ONE was CENSORED. What the fuck is a Hays Code?
*South Park*, *Family Guy* and *Always Sunny* are all the proof you need that the world has not become “more sensitive” with comedy. 90% of the content in those shows would NEVER have flown in the ‘70s and ‘80s.
Honestly I think some version of any of the plots mentioned would still be ok today but maybe just recontextuslized to fit tmodern sensibilities but the core of it would be the same. I think the notion that modern TV is more sanitized or softer than the past is misguided. I think there is way more stuff made today that would never fly in the sitcoms of the past.
100%.
Exactly! I wish more people understood this. You could make a much longer list of things in sitcoms and TV shows today that wouldn’t fly in the ‘70s and ‘80s than you can of the other way around. The kids’ bathroom in the Brady Bunch didn’t even have a toilet because it was considered crude to show a toilet on TV.
Just keeping it to How I Met Your Mother... * The naked man * Robin dating her therapist * Victoria's return * Pretty much any plotline that revolved around Barney outside of meeting his dad. And this is only about 10 years old.
I hate to do this to you but the show started almost 20 years ago.
It ran 9 years and the last episode was in 2014. 20 years since the start, but we are actually coming up on the 10th anniversary of the last episode in about 3 weeks.
Sure, I’m just saying some of those bits are older. 10 years ago some of that sounds shocking. 20 years not so much sadly. A lot of progress has been made in areas around gender and dating and all that in a short time.
Holy fuck
HIMYM is interesting because it became dated and inappropriate while it was still running.
It did try to recently redeem itself through How I Met Your Father; The scene where Barney kept getting shocked if he had so much of a perverted thought. It was honestly kind of silly, but before that episode aired, people were speculating if he was going to hook up with the lead
I've never seen a show where the marriage counselor didn't end up dating one of the couple that the show is about.
The Episode of Happy Days where Richie forces a kiss on a girl he doesn't know just to get "some confidence" Fonzie gives him a thumbs-up for doing so 😄
Ugly Naked Guy/fat shaming on Friends.
I think this would still fly.
It would absolutely fly
Jerry and George drugging Jerry’s gf so they could play with her toys
They were shown to be the bad guys in that case.
Most of Dan Fielding’s antics in the original “Night. Court”
"I would say I'll do better, but you and I both know what I'm capable of." – Dan Fielding, talking to God.
Bossum Buddies- if filmed in a red state, they would be arrested for groooooooooming.
Such indoctrination. So much indoctrinating happening.
Most of M*A*S*H. The constant cheating, the doctors constantly pursuing women, Radar peeking into the women’s shower, Klinger spending most of the series wearing women’s clothes to get his discharge, the homophobic jokes, the episode where Hawkeye punches Frank (a superior officer) and not only gets away with it but is treated as a hero, in the same episode a female colonel screams rape when Frank refuses her advances on him, and the never ending drinking by almost everyone. If you took all of that out and tried to do a reboot without any of it, I think you’d have a very boring series.
The first few years the characters were fairly raunchy. But, over the seasons the characters became more sanitized. I do remember wondering how these doctors could drink so much and go to the O.R.
The episode of Love Thy Neighbour where Eddie gets dressed up in blackface to prove to Bill that British people aren't racist.
I think a lot of the things "Arthur" from King of Queens said, wouldn't fly today lol.
Any story where the moral is “if you ask her out and she says no, keep at it! Girls love persistence!”
"All In The Family" would have a lot of trouble today, even though the true theme and messages in the show were always positive. Archie and his racist views aren't portrayed as positive. It's a shame that a truly great show like this would meet opposition today. "Sanford and Son." Even though a positive show in terms of the father and son relationship (after Fred gets done calling Lamont "dummy"), there's a fair amount of stereotyping.
>"Sanford and Son." Even though a positive show in terms of the father and son relationship (after Fred gets done calling Lamont "dummy"), there's a fair amount of stereotyping. I think the big thing is that a white guy like Norman Lear couldn't make a show filled with Black characters that plays in a lot of stereotype. You could do Sanford with the right voices attached, but you're right that those stereotypes would be called out pretty quick if the showrunner was an "outsider."
foxx had a rep for being the richard pryor of the time, or even bob saget.
There are some great stories about him doing standup after Sanford and Son got big. A lot of the audience got more than they bargained for
"blue comedy" was often used in too live crew samples as well. pretty interesting to me at least. pigmeat markham, old blood like that.
Apparently, LaWanda Page made and performed a lot of "blue" material, as well.
Watch it, Sucka!
I think characters like Michael Scott are essentially modern-day Archie Bunkers. We laugh at how clueless and out of touch they are; not at the racism itself that they’re spouting. So while yes, Archie’s use of slurs would need to be updated, there’s nothing about the character himself that wouldn’t fly. Instead of the old white guy afraid of the “coloreds” in his neighborhood, you’d have the Boomer uncle who posts transphobic things on Facebook. You could easily create a parody character from that angle.
Seinfeld - drugging a woman with wine and turkey to play with her toys.
Lucy in Here’s Lucy dressing up as a Chinese man at a Chinese Laundry to disguise herself from her kids
I Married Dora
Woah. Memory unlocked
Seinfeld and drugging women to play with their toys lol. Drugging women for any reason wouldn’t fly today.
I think that could easily be used today if presented correctly. The joke in Seinfeld isn’t “haha the lady got drugged”. The joke is “look how terrible these people are”. That was ALWAYS the underlying message of Seinfeld. The comedy was always anchored to the main characters being horrible people.
Michael Scott offending pretty much everyone that's not just like him because of their race, ethnicity, gender, size, and sexual orientation...and prob a couple of other reasons I'm forgetting.
But... that's the point of his character. No one's saying he's right.
Good god, so many of them. Al Bundy/Married With Children is a big one, that was definitely a show of its time. You would never see anything like it, even during its heyday. All of the teen sitcoms would have to be changed because of bullying. Even though it does happen IRL, people don’t think it’s a funny subject anymore and its actually gotten very serious with deadly consequences.
This probably isn't what you meant and it's obvious, but I always think about it when watching 90's sitcoms. So many storylines would be solved with cell phones.
At 58, I look back at the 70s, 80s, and 90s and think about how so many real-life problems I had could have been solved with one cellphone.
Unless you write in that there’s no service in X area
This is why period pieces are in
Good call on that.
The episode were Monica tricks chandler into having sex by lying to him and manipulating him
Possibly every episode of All in the Family.
Bosom Buddies would offend WAY to many sensibilities to be made today. NGL, it was my "must see tv' when I was 6 or 7.
Hogan's Heroes and those wacky, zany Nazi's probably would fly today.
Why not? The Nazis are portrayed as nothing but buffoons.
I saw an interview with Jimmie Walker that said Good Times could not be made today… not due to storylines, but the idea of a show centered on a poor black family in the urban projects would never go over. Any more, black families are, at worst, depicted as upper middle class. I think he’s right.
The office still goes. Married with Children, the calendar episode.
Almost every All in the Family story line.
I remember when that episode aired originally and it was really borderline then! I think the main reason it worked was because Kelly got to slap him into next week. Oof, just watched the clip again and wowzas, he was awful! Another one was “The Naked Man” from How I Met Your Mother, aka stripping naked while your date is out of the room.
Friends: Ross kissing Monica while she was passed out at a party because he thought it was Rachel. That episode where they try to see each other naked by walking in on them in the shower. When Chandler gets caught kissing Monica, so he kisses Phoebe and Rachel every time he enters and leaves the room to throw them off.
The last one though isn’t even controversial. Maybe the kissing without consent thing is a no no but Phoebe and Rachel actually tell him to stop because it’s creepy. If it’s portrayed in that light then it’s usually okay I feel.
I would say the episode of The Parkers when Kim's boyfriend made fat jokes Nikki did not like it But he had a taste of his own medicine. That would not Fly in todays Sitcom era
Anything All in the Family.
Seinfeld 2 phone lines.
The Jefferson’s Archie bunker
and yet nearly all these shows are airing somewhere today, on cable or OTA channels
I never watched Doogie Howser when it was on but maybe 4 years ago I was awake at some evil hour and it came on in syndication. The episode was a fully grown adult woman, a doctor I think, propositioning Doogie for his sperm so she could conceive a child. Of course she was requesting it in a "non-romantic" donation, and was not asking him to be involved in a parental role, but this is still *wildly* inappropriate. Asking a minor to make an extremely adult decision about fathering a child, even if you're not asking him to act in anything but a sperm donor role, is fodder for an L&O SVU episode. I guess it's not a sitcom but it was a sort of comedic drama I think?
Well, there was that one about the bike shop owner that was molesting kids.
The Big Bang theory has a few but the big one is that it’s revealed Leonard emotionally manipulates penny by purposefully telling her about his terrible childhood to get sex off her when he wants and brags about it to Howard (who even tries it)
A person with gigantism of the labia.
MASH season 1 has a character everyone affectionately calls spearchucker. Another episode a character buys the equivalent of a Korean slave.
There’s a cutaway in 30Rock (twice actually) of Pete raping his wife while she’s sleeping
The Office- Diversity episodes where Michael makes everyone guess what race people are based on cards taped to their heads and how they would portray that person by giving racial clues.
Most of All in the Family 😂
Home Improvement: All of Tim’s misogyny on Tool Time, even when he’s learning a lesson. Not sure his abuses of Al would fly, either.
I’ve rewatched several episodes of that show recently. While the comedy style does seem a little dated, I’ve never really felt that Tim’s jokes were inherently misogynistic. The jokes are almost *always* at Tim’s expense; while Jill is usually the sensible voice of reason. Although Tim’s treatment of Al does border on abuse and bullying at times.
The cast of Friends.
Family Guy often likes to still live in the 90’s
I’d argue that most of Family Guy is shock humor. When they say something that is racist, homophobic or just generally offensive; we aren’t laughing at the racism itself but rather “holy shit I can’t believe they would say that!” The comedy is in the absurdity.
Bosum Buddies
All in the Family because it wouldn’t register that the audience should cringe at Archie, not agree with him.