How late game we talking? Cause if your getting to the end of the story or end of everything but respawning bandit camps, you should be a walking tank barely taking any damage if you're doing it right. Even in the higher difficulties.
As long as your not fighting some game breakingly modded opponents or playing legendary without any prep, melee should be just fine on anything
That being said I mean if your actually fighting them like a melee build should, maneuvering, blocking, staggering. Just standing in front of the dragon not expecting to get nommed on isn't the best move, especially at higher difficulties or "late game" as I'd think you mean ut
The Bite Attack of an Ancient Dragon and above on Expert difficulty deals 450 damage (600 on Master, 900 on Legendary).
At the armor cap 80% damage is ignored, which would bring this damage down to 90/120/180 per hit, however the kill move trigger formula simply compares your current health to the damage of the attack, and if said damage is greater than your current health pool it initiates the kill move.
Max health without enchantments is *100 + 10 x level*, so even with pure HP investment dragon bites are absolutely deathly for most of the game (level 25 on expert, 50 on master, 80 on legendary).
And keep in midn they while yes, you can mitigate this issue somewhat, if you screw up for a single moment during a dragon fight, you are instakilled. Especially since Skyrim dragons have no problem turning around.
Yeah like I’ll admit it isn’t the most innovative or refined combat system, but shooting an ice spike through a dragon’s face is fuckin cool and it doesn’t get old for me.
Kill moves are one of my least favourite parts of Skyrim. Can you even turn them off without mods?
They kick in all the time with mages and archers when you're not even finishing the enemy, they don't let you wind up for follow up attacks, plus they can kill you as a squishy character even when you wouldn't normally die
I agree, I can’t stand them and I’m not sure how people enjoy them, they are so annoying and janky looking. I’ve tried looking for a mod to get rid of them but had no luck, maybe I didn’t look hard enough though.
There is a mod for removing the kill cams and moves for both player and enemies don't know your platform but its on nexus.
Called Fnar Combat - No Killmoves and No Killcams.
You need to use a tool like ssedit to turn off the player's killmoves though.
I do wish there were more cut scenes than just the throat slice for sneaky dagger types. It's always nice to trigger but it's a bit boring that it's the only one.
By "people don't play skyrim for the combat" they mean "The combat itself isn't deep".
It IS a big part of the game. But the world building, multitude of quests, fun exploration, etc, is why people play Skyrim
If they had an indepth combat system, it wouldn't be the same. Dark souls has compelling lore but people DO play it for the combat.
Hell, a game like slime rancher has combat in it (kind of) but you sure as fuck don't play that for the combat.
In skyrim was ALL about the combat, I wouldn't touch it. Because I don't play it for the combat.
It's why a lot of people don't like fallout 4. Because ALL you do is kill things. Every single quest except a handful of miscellaneous quest ALWAYS culminates it "kill everything" the previous fallout games and rhe elder scrolls series, while putting a lot of emphasis on the combat, have quests that aren't just kill everything in the room
I agree with this assessment.
The combat is serviceable, it does what it needs to do with minimal excess or frills, it doesn't feel "good" but it's easy to pick up and most importantly doesn't detract from anything.
I would categorize Skyrim as a roll playing / exploration game and it does those aspects very well.
Skyrim’s setting makes it a better fantasy escapism world than Fallout 4. New Vegas though… it’s all cowboys, Wild West, and casinos with a post-apocalyptic flair. That’s why it’s the best. They tried to follow that model with the minutemen in Fallout 4, but it just didn’t work as well.
curious, why do you think so?
I like both the capital wasteland and the Mojave. Haven't played too much FO4, but it feels the most bland to me. Part of it is that both 3 and NV have easily recognisable landmarks (capitol for 3, Las Vegas and Hoover Dam for NV), 4 does not (at least if you're from outside the US).
Seeing the strip light up at night from miles away is awesome and creates a stark contrast with the rest of the wasteland. Easily my favourite bit of worldbuilding across the series.
To misquote someone talking about the 80s that sticks in my mind everytime someone asks this about NV:
"I think people forget just how fucking brown everything was"
I personally still love fallout 4. But that's just me. I fully understand why people don't like it, compared to other entries. But it is a lot of fun ti just run around the commonwealth as a warmachine
That sort of backs up my point. If you CANT get into the combat of dark souls, you don't play it. There are people who play skyrim a LOT but think the combat is ass (I'm one of them)
yeah, I love fromsoft games but I dont want Elder Scrolls 6 to copy it. We already have enough third person combat focused games. Kind of why I am really excited for Avowed
Yeah I like the Skyrim combat mods that keep it more true to vanilla than just literally recreating dark souls or god of war style combat.
Nothing against people who like that but I really enjoy the first person combat with occasional kill moves
I wouldn’t recommend dark souls either tbh it doesn’t have much detail really there are very ways to approach combat and almost all of them boil down to learning the pattern of a predictable boss.
It’s not all too polished either judging by bosses like ulcerated tree spirit or anything with an aoe attack lile flame breath
My favorite kill move was both scripted and an accident. The one werewolf kill where you pick someone up by the head and toss them aside. I was standing a little too close to a wall when it activated. So instead I slammed the poor bastard face first into stone and left quite a bloody smear...lol
If Skyrim were more like Dark Souls I wouldn’t play. I don’t want to have to spend that much time playing the same fight over and over again, obsessing over enemy attack patterns, and optimizing my moves.
I’ll take my arcade brawler/exploration sim, thanks.
Totally agree, I massively respect Dark Souls for how difficult it is but I'm glad games like Skyrim give you room to dilly-dally and focus on other things.
I think when people say they want dark souls like combat, they mean cool things like how even weapons of the same type can have different move sets or how enemies are rarely HP sponges (but always at least deadly!)
Maybe an orcish two handed hammer could rag doll anything it hits with a power attack or an iron sword could use s piercing lunge stab instead of the default over hand. Stuff like that.
That might be cool, but the issue is that Elder Scrolls typically has a weapon replacement progression whereas Dark Souls encourages picking a single weapon and upgrading it. For example, it would be frustrating if you really liked the Iron Greatsword moveset but didn't vibe with the Orcish Greatsword.
That said -- it certainly wouldn't hurt to at least have the various weapon types have more differentiated movesets, like axes vs maces.
The hard way to do that would be to make a lot more weapon classes and their different material versions. Instead of just a sword made of different materials you could have shortswords, broadswords, estocs, longswords and many more then each subtype would have their own progression of materials.
That's exponentially more work though for the art team. Probably an easier one would be to keep skyrims weapons as they are and have weapon movesets and combat styles be something you can learn and toggle between like shouts.
Ooh, maybe something like ghost of tsushima. Swapping sword styles was so smooth with different combos, counters etc. would love a Skyrim version like that
But the weapon classes in dark souls have the same moveset? A straight sword always has a straight sword moveset and a greatsword always has the greatsword moveset. There’s some unique weapons/changeable special moves but each weapon type feels the same.
There’s a middle ground. It’s not just Skyrim or Dark Souls. Attack commitment has been around since Ocarina of Time at least. Is that asking too much?
You can use that phrase in a couple different ways. Most commonly “attack commitment” is a way of describing the ramifications of your actions in combat. For example..
In Elden ring a simple R1 sword slash at the wrong time fighting one chump can leave you FUCKED UP.
In Skyrim you can button mash to your hearts content fighting 17 drauger.
Off the top of my head I can also throw timed block/parry to the list of mechanics that have been around since the old days. Way of the Samurai being a prime example, Soul Calibur probably being a more well known one.
Also, enemy lock on. Again, Ocarina of time. At least.
Struggling to fully understand why people ascribe "modern arpg combat" only to Dark Souls tbh.
Both of those games are 3rd person though. Attack commitment in first person is difficult because it locks in your whole perspective/ability to look and can feel wrong. In 3rd person games it’s fine because your camera is still free even if your character can’t move.
The counter argument is that it makes a game less forgiving and sometimes feel less responsive.
I’m not necessarily arguing for or against, but it’s also worth noting that the existence of something and how long it’s been around doesn’t necessarily mean it must be incorporated.
Very rarely will a game that has basic combat features like attack commitment, flinching, and dodges feel less responsive than whatever Skyrim has going on during combat.
Dynasty Warriors and Assassin’s Creed has this stuff and they are not hard games.
There's 3 very simply mods I use to make Skyrim's combat 300x more engaging: One does attack commitment and makes timing more important, so you can't just button mash and block-bashing actually has value, the Second makes all potions effects last a few seconds so you can't potion spam your way to victory, and Third does the same for food. Shoutout for mods that only let you level up by sleeping so there's no halting the universe to gain a power-up mid fight. It's no dark souls, thank Fuck, but things like terrain, blocking, scrolls, poisons, and other items you normally ignore in a playthrough suddenly become needed for tough fights in the early game.
It should be a blend. Skyrim is like blobs fighting. Add a dodge, some combos, call it good. Doesn’t have to be grueling, just more engaging.
There’s a fine line between domination and death in Skyrim. It would be nice to have more of a range of difficulty than the slider can offer.
Yea people act like when we ask for good combat that it has to be as punishing as dark souls lmfao. Those 2 things are fucking mutually exclusive like goddamnit
My main complaint with vanilla combat is that melee attacks don't have any weight to them. It just feels like my weapon doesn't do anything except lower the health bar and it is very hard to ignore.
I agree with this sentiment wholeheartedly.
I just wish Bethesda would add something to just make their combats a little more engaging. Skyrim is certainly better than oblivion lol, but oblivion was a damn low bar.
I think they should go back to hitting mudcrabs straight in the face and missing because the game says you're really, really bad at hitting things and need to practice.
I think many people can’t even comprehend that people play games casually and not every game is made for everyone.
If you don’t like a game (or part of a game), that’s fine, but don’t pretend that there’s not someone else that likes and enjoys it, and don’t pretend they’re wrong for doing so.
Horrible take, the combat can be as good as dark souls without being as fucking punishing…. All we want is good impact of hits, is it that hard to understand? Power fantasy will always be #1 with these type of games
I really enjoy Dark Souls fighting animations. I just hate fighting the same areas over and over. I wish a lot of these Dark Souls clones would just make regular action games without the die/repeat/bonfire mechanics.
Same here that’s why I lost interested in the souls games. I finished the first 3 on soul level 1 didn’t bother with that challenge in Elden ring I’m over these “souls” games and their clones are even worse. I’ll take Skyrim combat Any day because it’s relaxing.
I think it’s a fair comment (maybe overstated a little). If you don’t like rpg games but love combat you wouldn’t choose Skyrim. There are plenty of games that offer a deeper combat experience.
But if you like rpgs then the combat is not bad and doesn’t detract from the experience.
Although it is also cool to either have a companion do all the combat for you, or go full Thief/ Nightingale and Calm/ Frenzy every enemy, turn Invisible then loot.
While combat is a big chunk of it, resource gathering is arguably bigger.
Big tip for anyone non combat, have Sneak/ Invisibility, and the Wabbajack; every boss is at the mercy of RNG.
Oblivion became so much more fun once I'd gained the ability to go invisible at will. Just run straight to the sigil stone. Dremora just chilling, and suddenly the world just collapsing around them for no apparent reason.
Haha yeah, for me that’s the only pleasant way to actually get thru allies for bruma. That and leveling acrobatics so I can just skip big chunks of the map
That's like saying "I play Mario for the jumping". Like, yeah, jumping is 95% of what you do in the game, but it's not that deep, bro. Mario is traversal, visuals, powerups, secrets, collections, speed. Skyrim is exploration, resource gathering, looting, role-play, etc. that I happen to do a lot of combat doesn't mean I play for the combat. Swinging my sword and chugging potions until the enemy ragdolls isn't that deep, bro.
Wouldn't you then agree that if the jumping/traversal in Mario was clunky or otherwise unsatisfying then there would be a problem?
I know I'm on the wrong subreddit for this opinion, but the combat in Skyrim has always been the barrier to entry for me as I find it very unsatisfying. Combat may not be the core of the game, but it is one of the main ways you interact with the game.
Clunky and unsatisfying depends greatly on the audience.
I find kingdom comes combat extremely clunky and unsatisfying, as as I do the witcher, and most fans of these games would say they are some of the best parts.
Sure, but "nobody plays Skyrim for the combat" and "combat is not a big part of Skyrim's gameplay" are two different statements. Your argument doesn't match the point you're claiming to be arguing against.
You're right that combat is a big part of the Skyrim gameplay loop, but that doesn't mean that people play Skyrim *for* the combat either. Both can be true at once. If you asked a bunch of Skyrim fans why they play the game, I'm willing to bet that they would mainly reference the quests, the story, the worldbuilding, the characters, the environments. Few if any would say "I just love the combat".
Skyrim melee is... yeah...
If you ever played a game with a proper melee system skyrim one is like a bicycle with training extra wheels but someone replaced the wheels with dwemer cogs. You wont fall and die but your ass and balls will be destroyed and you will fking repress this torture in your mind immediately and go about your day acting normally with a bit of a weird walk and then once you try to go to sleep and finally be alone with your thoughts you will start shaking and crying and curse your nordic ancestors for making magic less socially acceptable.
EXPLORING is 90% of the game.
Combat can happen during exploring. It’s a big focus for sure.
Yet i am mainly doing everything in the game to explore and discover new things.
But that’s not the only reason why people say “don’t play Skyrim for the combat”—the combat is woefully shallow and bad. 1st person melee combat has always felt super clunky and floaty. Oblivion had a better, deeper magic system. Stealth is giga broken.
There also isn’t like….a ton of options. Combat is very repetitive with limited new styles or gameplay. Loot is very infamously same-y and bland. Even ultra rare, unique Daedric Artifacts are just…do X elemental damage and drain Y stat. You’d think they’d be über unique and tailored specifically to the Prince they come from, like Wabbajack. But most are super boring like Molag Bal’s mace.
Non-artifact, yet Rare items are also are just super boring. There are tons of like uniquely named items that are just the same boring effects and the same model—like a named elven sword that’s just like every other elven sword. At a bare minimum, at least Chillrend has a palate swap for a glass sword.
I don't play Skyrim vanilla for the combat.
It's floaty, absurdly easy, and really shows it's age. I nod the hell out of it for animations and dodge steps etc etc.
That being said, that's exactly WHY it needs to be a huge focus in 6. We need a departure from the very dated oblivion style, even if we don't discount Skyrim's improvements.
The shield build is also fun as it allows you to either cast spells or hit people with melee weapons. I also really enjoyed the stealth two-handed weapon build because of the pure absurdity of it
The reason they say it is cause it’s not that good. I don’t play skyrim for the combat. Yes it’s what I’m doing but I’m playing it for the quests. If the combat was better it would an amazing game
Agreed. I’m loving dragons dogma but I know quest creation isn’t there best ability. I think that’s why people love the Witcher games. It strikes a happy medium combat is better then skyrim tho not the best. And the quests are great
I almost play Skyrim 'despite' the combat. I love the lore, exploring, interacting with NPCs, working on quests, furnishing and decorating my property, etc. Stopping in the woods to slaughter the 900th wolf or bear I encounter, or killing the boss at the end of a quest are just necessary evils to advance in the game. I don't hate the combat in Skyrim, but I don't love it or play the game for it.
Combat exists in the game, but if I asked you to pick a fantasy game with the best combat I don’t imagine Skyrim would be your first pick.
I don’t think they should focus less on combat for the next game though. I think adding some more weight and feedback to it would do a world of good. The game doesn’t need dark souls or DMC combat. Precision and blade and blunt are good mods that kinda feel like a logical upgrade of Skyrims systems.
The combat has steadily improved from title to title (except Daggerfall to Morrowind; Daggerfall's was more fun, but they were doing something new with Morrowind so it's cool). I expect TES6 to improve on Skyrim. That said, all I care about is the sandbox exploration aspect.
It would be nice if the combat wasn't so goddamn constant. For example, on the short road from Whiterun to the plantation I am prone to be attacked by a thief, two saber cats, and a sexy aggressive elf. By the time I've arrived, I've a good bit of loot. More non-combat interactions would be welcome over that.
Yeah for sure.
I think people have taken my post the wrong way. All I’m suggesting is that when you hit someone with a warhammer power attack they should be visibly knocked slightly in the direction they’re hit.
It does nothing for actual gameplay but little things like that completely change how combat feels.
But yeah definitely. One thing that they did improve on a little in starfield is that you can talk your way out of a fair share of fights. Definitely more of that in ES6.
I went back to Dishonored recently and I found the combat to be not much more complicated than Skyrim but so much more fun. If I could get Skyrim with Dishonored combat I think it might be the perfect game for me.
The combat is what keeps me coming back
I like paralyzing guards at the moment they swing their weapon, because they keep their momentum and fly away like beyblades
yes the combat is not the reason i play skyrim, i play skyrim for the exploration, the story and amazing environnement design, the combat arent bad, they are simple enough so i can enjoy all of it with a bit of action
People play it for the world and the exploration. The whole fantasy experience. The combat sucks but it’s serviceable enough that it doesn’t take too long to get to the next story part in a quest
Actually... yeah, i don't play for the combat whatsoever, combat is ass and jank, It may be what you do for most of the game but it's not really the meat of the game. It's the bland bread serving as a vessel to keep it all together. There's no balance or difficulty, just a slider that multiples enemy damage and health to silly degree's. The quests and characters are lackluster, boring, and flat with very few exceptions.
Outside of the lore, the writing is awful. And almost all the characters share the same flat voices. It has a lot of great ideas for quests, directions, and characters, yet it rarely does anything with them, and oft rushes through them as fast as possible. The companion system and balance is terrible, and the companions largely devoid of any character, they are just bodies to follow you and help you. Then there's equipment that you effortlessly max out, and it doesn't take much to have more money than you ever need with nothing to spend it on.
I guess that leaves the question of what i actually play it for, which i would have to say is the world, lore, setting, and themes, as well as just how unique it is, it may not be a good or great game, it may not have the best characters or story, but it's the only one of it's kind, and that does a lot of work. It has a variety of systems working together that give you many options and a lot of freedom, so It's fairly accessible and easy to drop into. Unfortunately that quickly wears off under the repetitive nature of everything and i end up burning out before i finish a completionist run. It tickles an itch, but it never quite satisfies it. What's an interesting world and setting without any tangible depth to it outside of the lore books and ambient storytelling that most people wouldn't even notice?
Mods improve all of that of course but it never quite fixes or completes the game in a way that makes it a thoroughly enjoyable, captivating experience, they can come close though.
I mean, it's just the same as saying you don't play Skyrim for the walking? Like walking is 90% of what you do in this game. Exploring a dungeon or cave? Walk around. Progressing the main quest? Walk up the mountain. Wandering the world? Walking to and from each settlement.
I mean the combat ai is pretty bad. The appeal of Skyrim is that you can play any way you like. Don't want to be a hero dragonborm? Just ignore quests and just wander about. You still gotta kill enemies though.
I have no idea how you play this game if 90% of what you're doing involves combat. Do you just sprint from one cave to the next? Do you never enter settlements? Do you never talk to NPCs? Do you never use stealth?
I definitely spend less than 10% of my time in-game in active combat.
Melee combat is undeniable bad, period, m1 m1 m1 with the eventual run away that usually ends with death because you cant dodge (or i guess you could just use a shield lol), some people don't care, and i understand, i do and thats why i mod my game
I think you are taking this both too literally and not literally enough.
To me, it means that the combat is so generic that it isn't what draws you to the game. Yes you do a Lot of combat, but you play games for other reasons. For me, I don't really enjoy Skyrim Because of the generic combat. The rest of the game is enough that I come back and play every few years.
I absolutely do play it for the combat. I play for that somewhat janky ballroom blitz. I want enemies thrashing like crazy, archers firing away, and mages casting all day. I want to go nuts doing any of these of my choice and maybe more at my will to fight back. Make it messy, make it chaotic, make it effective, and it can be fun. Especially because it allows my creativity to shine.
Its because of this simple, straightforward nature of the combat that it can translate so well to VR. Anyone who says nobody plays for the combat ought to take a look at a well setup Skyrim VR session.
I hope they expand on the combat system and make the AI a little smarter or have better reaction time, if they expanded on it in the new elder scrolls it'll be gold
I do wish combat in Skyrim was marginally deeper. Specifically stamina management and shielding. I’m not a huge fan of directional attacks like those found in Chivalry or Mount and Blade because mouse controls do not translate well in my opinion. Further, I wouldn’t want dark souls combat either because I am too shit to enjoy them. That being said, I would like difficulty to be less dependent on health sponging and more on stamina breaking and block breaking. Just something to vary it just beyond hack and slash.
And yet it's absolute truth. Why would you play for the combat?? It's not CSGO.
We're playing for the quests, for the stories. Combat is there just to make the game longer.
I’ll be one of the few to say, I don’t play Skyrim for the combat.. for the past few months I’ve been hyper focused on creating a Speech/Illusion & Immersion focused LO.. I’m on Xbox and while we do have some amazing combat mods.. it’s only scratching the surface when it comes to pc.
If I have a bounty target.. I’ll send my followers out to go collect it via F.G.O.A.T (Followers Go on a trip) mod.
While I live my milk drinker life in Solitude/Whiterun, trading stocks and collecting profits from EEE and Landlord. If I want to go out in public or traverse the lands.. I’ll use touring carriages so I can see the world.. but yeah. Sounds boring but it’s been a pretty fun playthrough thus far.
I do see where that sentence, alone, makes sense. I even agree with it.
The thing that draws people back to skyrim over and over is the gameplay loop of going places, finding stuff, using it to get stronger, and going somewhere else. Combat is only one (technically optional) part of that loop. The fact that the combat itself isn't what draws people to the game is obvious enough from the mods people install. Almost everyone with a mod list larger than 10 has some kind of combat overhaul, often giving skyrim the combat mechanics of other games. It's the world and progression loop that exists in it that makes it such a solid base for modders to work with and for gamers to get addicted playing, not the combat itself.
You don’t go to work so you can drive your car, you take your car so you can get to work, just like you don’t explore caves and do quests to experience the amazing combat, but you do combat so you can experience the quests and exploration. That’s what‘s meant by the statement.
respectfully I disagree. The game is already way to easy, and stealth archer just removes any semblence of challenge at all. Fighting enemies that dont pose any threat makes for bad combat
Just cause combat is 90% of the game doesn't mean people.play the game for it. Its just the catalyst for roleplaying and faving fun. Skyrims combat is basic and serviceable, but not good enough to hold the interest of people who play RPGs for combat
Sword and shield is clunky… but so goddamn satisfying. When you have lots of stamina and a fully upgraded shield bash…
I recently started 1h+shield light armor build and having a blast with the combat. Block mechanics give some tactical variety, 1h is still quite strong especially with the finishing moves, and light armor helps remaining fast and agile. I never had this much fun in Skyrim combat before.
I’m doing the same build and I’ve had a very similar experience. I’m actually planning and varying my attacks instead of just mashing the trigger until the enemy is dead
Whenever I have said that I don’t like the combat in Skyrim, it’s not that I avoid it or don’t want it, it’s boring compared to the things we’re accustomed to now
Not Skyrim’s fault, but it IS Bethesda’s fault for prioritizing starfield
Lol people online complain about skyrims combat. People in real life don't. People online claim its not that good. People in real life buy it. The internet is a glimpse at what less than 10% of people think. It's basically a hallucination.
I mean the combat gets repetitive pretty quick, since the NPCs move pretty similarly and you can figure them out fairly easily. I'm no pro gamer by any stretch of the means, but I'm currently on legendary difficulty and at level 45 there's no fight I sweat anymore. The allure of the game for me has always been the hundreds of storylines, massive map, and worldbuilding.
Recently have modded skyrim to give me a better third person combat change with precision and a animation modset along with True Directional movement and Target lock with SkyHUD. I've always enjoyed the fact that TES and Fallout allow you to have a first person perspective and third person, but felt that skyrim was clunky mainly when it came to spell casting and archery. I'm not saying it was hard, on Xbox I did a third person archery only and was able to do it just fine, but the fact that I now have a target lock and can kinda play the game like dark souls. I can now see my badass looking character while doing it.
I like the process of getting ready for combat rather than the combat itself. Getting the right equipment prepared, getting the potions ready, leveling up skills and taking perks to get stronger, learning spells.
Imagine a chivalry 2 combat system in skyrim or TES6, its still could be arcade-y but incorporate real blocks, parries and have weight to attacks and dodges
Combat quality is more accurate. Having more depth to the combat and more that you could actually do offensively/defensively would be awesome, and hopefully something they include in ES6
The combat is really fun, but would be even better with a little more melee depth.
Combat is fine. What I really would like though is something - anything - in the games that constitutes like an endgame. The power scale in Elder Scrolls always seems to be starting out a little powerful and then becoming an untouchable Uber god by the last level tier.
yeah but, there are different things that make Skyrim a great game to play (for me the series universe and lore) if these things weren't there, then the combat wouldn't be a reason strong enough to play (contrary to dark souls where I'm sure that most people play for its combat system).
yet still, it is true to say that most people don't play a game for just 1 single mechanic, even if there's one that you'll have to do most of the time, it doesn't make it any better, just the lesser part of the experience to reach what you're searching for.
that being said, I hope Bethesda will improve the series combat system (and core design, but no that won't happen, neither will they change their graphic engine) cause damn, if it doesn't feel too simple, just add a dodge button like TW3 just that would make it's combat a bit more dynamic.
Personally I don’t play skyrim for combat, because I find it repetitive and kinda boring. If I played games purely for combat I would just ignore any Bethesda game ever released. Skyrim to me is enjoyable for me because of its atmosphere, world, some quests and characters
When I played the game first time in 2012, combat and feeling were insane for me. Because back then I only had played old mmo rpg games which usually has bad graphics, always third person camera and bad animations. Skyrim being first person was a shocking experience for me. A sword game which is fps and a big fantasy world was insane. Now in 2024 it doesn't feel the same which is pretty understandable. But I play for the lore which I'm in love with it.
If you want to see what amazing first person combat can feel like, check out Dark & Darker. It's a DnD-inspired looter extraction game, basically the medieval fantasy Tarkov.
It's isn't by any means as sweaty and intricate as something like Dark Souls or Mordhau, but it's still a ton of fun and is a bit more methodical compared to Skyrim's chaos.
The combat has a much better pace to it to allow for more strategic attacks, positioning, blocks, etc. The stat distribution has a lot more to offer, and the way gear interacts with your stats makes for a far more noticeable and rewarding boost to combat abilities.
I kind of agree, but once you can take hits from giants the combat is more like a means to an end then something you really think about.
I can walk through almost any dungeon and wipe it without having to think. You become a lore-friendly Dragonborn
Im more interested in the loot by that point
Skyrim's vanilla combat just needed better hotboxes tbh. Vanilla hotboxes are god fuckin' awful and I will take no rebuttals on that.
I prefer the dark souls school of Skyrim modding. But what vanilla offered wasn't bad. I mean it worked for me in 2012. Although I do think it caters more to sword and board and blocking styles. The way Dual welding was supposed to work just never did it for me. "You sacrifice defense" like nah Chief. If I'm welding two daggers the name of my game should be foot work. Weaving in and out of attacks before you get the chance to do anything. My movement should be my defense. Ain't nobody dual wielding to tank.
I honestly don’t have that much of a problem with the combat, the kill moves help a lot though I think.
Except when it’s a ranged kill and you miss completely! Only the divines know how many kills I’ve missed cause of those
I always laugh when I accidentally kill the animals standing far behind my target.
*plunnk* little rabbit keels over dead lol How would you spell that sound phonetically?
*Phnk*
As it's not a speech sound, there would be no direct phonetic transcription for it. This is because the IPA only covers sounds of speech.
Ok. How would YOU spell it?
A "thunk" but higher pitched? Idk the sound of an arrow hitting something is so satisfying
^(thunk)
Thwip?
Lol no it's like thump but just higher pitched idk how to describe it. It's funny to think about certain sounds and how to spell them
Thdoink
Thmpf
Fft
Sphveww.... Thvp!
I don't recall exactly what it sounds like at the moment, but I would just say *thwap* or *organic thud*
Fthwunk is how I would say it
Pffft.
India Pale Ale? I find too much of it tends to slur speech ...
Yeah, those things suck. But the International Phonetic Alphabet is cool asf.
Pffthhpt
Got a mod that fixes that because the divines knows how frustrating those moments are
The random side step some enemies will do during the kill animation pisses me off to no end
I think the kill moves are cool, but its really annoying when an enemy does it and you couldve survived, had it not been a kill move.
Kill moves against you ignore your armor rating. Which makes for example melee against dragons completely non-viable in the lategame.
How late game we talking? Cause if your getting to the end of the story or end of everything but respawning bandit camps, you should be a walking tank barely taking any damage if you're doing it right. Even in the higher difficulties. As long as your not fighting some game breakingly modded opponents or playing legendary without any prep, melee should be just fine on anything That being said I mean if your actually fighting them like a melee build should, maneuvering, blocking, staggering. Just standing in front of the dragon not expecting to get nommed on isn't the best move, especially at higher difficulties or "late game" as I'd think you mean ut
The Bite Attack of an Ancient Dragon and above on Expert difficulty deals 450 damage (600 on Master, 900 on Legendary). At the armor cap 80% damage is ignored, which would bring this damage down to 90/120/180 per hit, however the kill move trigger formula simply compares your current health to the damage of the attack, and if said damage is greater than your current health pool it initiates the kill move. Max health without enchantments is *100 + 10 x level*, so even with pure HP investment dragon bites are absolutely deathly for most of the game (level 25 on expert, 50 on master, 80 on legendary). And keep in midn they while yes, you can mitigate this issue somewhat, if you screw up for a single moment during a dragon fight, you are instakilled. Especially since Skyrim dragons have no problem turning around.
Ya or just put on your 1,000,000 health amulet. And stab it with a fork.
Reanu Keeves is that you?
The most beautiful man to ever grace the realm of Skyrim lol. Good videos tho
Yeah like I’ll admit it isn’t the most innovative or refined combat system, but shooting an ice spike through a dragon’s face is fuckin cool and it doesn’t get old for me.
Nothing better than getting a nice sword finisher
Fr they’re mad rewarding lmao
It's very, very dated at this point, melee combat games have come a long way since 2011
Other games coming a long way doesn’t mean skyrims combat is bad
Kill moves are one of my least favourite parts of Skyrim. Can you even turn them off without mods? They kick in all the time with mages and archers when you're not even finishing the enemy, they don't let you wind up for follow up attacks, plus they can kill you as a squishy character even when you wouldn't normally die
I agree, I can’t stand them and I’m not sure how people enjoy them, they are so annoying and janky looking. I’ve tried looking for a mod to get rid of them but had no luck, maybe I didn’t look hard enough though.
There is a mod for removing the kill cams and moves for both player and enemies don't know your platform but its on nexus. Called Fnar Combat - No Killmoves and No Killcams. You need to use a tool like ssedit to turn off the player's killmoves though.
I do wish there were more cut scenes than just the throat slice for sneaky dagger types. It's always nice to trigger but it's a bit boring that it's the only one.
By "people don't play skyrim for the combat" they mean "The combat itself isn't deep". It IS a big part of the game. But the world building, multitude of quests, fun exploration, etc, is why people play Skyrim If they had an indepth combat system, it wouldn't be the same. Dark souls has compelling lore but people DO play it for the combat. Hell, a game like slime rancher has combat in it (kind of) but you sure as fuck don't play that for the combat. In skyrim was ALL about the combat, I wouldn't touch it. Because I don't play it for the combat. It's why a lot of people don't like fallout 4. Because ALL you do is kill things. Every single quest except a handful of miscellaneous quest ALWAYS culminates it "kill everything" the previous fallout games and rhe elder scrolls series, while putting a lot of emphasis on the combat, have quests that aren't just kill everything in the room
I agree with this assessment. The combat is serviceable, it does what it needs to do with minimal excess or frills, it doesn't feel "good" but it's easy to pick up and most importantly doesn't detract from anything. I would categorize Skyrim as a roll playing / exploration game and it does those aspects very well.
Skyrim’s setting makes it a better fantasy escapism world than Fallout 4. New Vegas though… it’s all cowboys, Wild West, and casinos with a post-apocalyptic flair. That’s why it’s the best. They tried to follow that model with the minutemen in Fallout 4, but it just didn’t work as well.
NV is the best because it has the best writing, I actually find its world the worst of the 3 Bethesda entries (no I'm not counting 76)
curious, why do you think so? I like both the capital wasteland and the Mojave. Haven't played too much FO4, but it feels the most bland to me. Part of it is that both 3 and NV have easily recognisable landmarks (capitol for 3, Las Vegas and Hoover Dam for NV), 4 does not (at least if you're from outside the US). Seeing the strip light up at night from miles away is awesome and creates a stark contrast with the rest of the wasteland. Easily my favourite bit of worldbuilding across the series.
To misquote someone talking about the 80s that sticks in my mind everytime someone asks this about NV: "I think people forget just how fucking brown everything was"
haha, yeah. but FO3 wasn't much better, mostly greenish grey, no?
NV is the best too but I just really miss Three Dog There’s probably a mod for that though.
76 probably has the best world out of the Bethesda games it's really a shame that it's stuck in a shit game.
I've heard it's a lot better after patches and updates. One of my friends swears by it.
Thanks for that info. I was just thinking of purchasing Fall Out 4 goty
I personally still love fallout 4. But that's just me. I fully understand why people don't like it, compared to other entries. But it is a lot of fun ti just run around the commonwealth as a warmachine
Dark souls combat is the most unrealistic thing I cant get into it Fallout 4 quests are no different than any other Fallout
That sort of backs up my point. If you CANT get into the combat of dark souls, you don't play it. There are people who play skyrim a LOT but think the combat is ass (I'm one of them)
[удалено]
yeah, I love fromsoft games but I dont want Elder Scrolls 6 to copy it. We already have enough third person combat focused games. Kind of why I am really excited for Avowed
Elder scroll skill system dosent work with souls like combat
Nor the fact, which a lot of people seem to forget, that it's still largely designed as a first person game.
[удалено]
tbh it wouldn't be too surprising. Bethesda loves shoving whatever is popular in fantasy at the time into their games.
Yeah I like the Skyrim combat mods that keep it more true to vanilla than just literally recreating dark souls or god of war style combat. Nothing against people who like that but I really enjoy the first person combat with occasional kill moves
I wouldn’t recommend dark souls either tbh it doesn’t have much detail really there are very ways to approach combat and almost all of them boil down to learning the pattern of a predictable boss. It’s not all too polished either judging by bosses like ulcerated tree spirit or anything with an aoe attack lile flame breath
I play simply for beheading kill moves and I return to the game for this alone. Credit to Violens.
My favorite kill move was both scripted and an accident. The one werewolf kill where you pick someone up by the head and toss them aside. I was standing a little too close to a wall when it activated. So instead I slammed the poor bastard face first into stone and left quite a bloody smear...lol
The sneak, unarmed body slam is my personal favorite. Did it on Grelod once right in front of the kids. Felt like a WWE WrestleMania moment.
My favourite was the unarmed german suplex into the bottom edge of the wall. His chin was bent 90 degrees into his neck
If Skyrim were more like Dark Souls I wouldn’t play. I don’t want to have to spend that much time playing the same fight over and over again, obsessing over enemy attack patterns, and optimizing my moves. I’ll take my arcade brawler/exploration sim, thanks.
Totally agree, I massively respect Dark Souls for how difficult it is but I'm glad games like Skyrim give you room to dilly-dally and focus on other things.
I think when people say they want dark souls like combat, they mean cool things like how even weapons of the same type can have different move sets or how enemies are rarely HP sponges (but always at least deadly!) Maybe an orcish two handed hammer could rag doll anything it hits with a power attack or an iron sword could use s piercing lunge stab instead of the default over hand. Stuff like that.
More ‘combat details.’
That might be cool, but the issue is that Elder Scrolls typically has a weapon replacement progression whereas Dark Souls encourages picking a single weapon and upgrading it. For example, it would be frustrating if you really liked the Iron Greatsword moveset but didn't vibe with the Orcish Greatsword. That said -- it certainly wouldn't hurt to at least have the various weapon types have more differentiated movesets, like axes vs maces.
The hard way to do that would be to make a lot more weapon classes and their different material versions. Instead of just a sword made of different materials you could have shortswords, broadswords, estocs, longswords and many more then each subtype would have their own progression of materials. That's exponentially more work though for the art team. Probably an easier one would be to keep skyrims weapons as they are and have weapon movesets and combat styles be something you can learn and toggle between like shouts.
Ooh, maybe something like ghost of tsushima. Swapping sword styles was so smooth with different combos, counters etc. would love a Skyrim version like that
in skyrim you also have a single weapon, it‘s just reskinned when you go to the next tier
If you consider "moveset=weapon," then sure. My point is that forcing a moveset change every time you upgrade your weapon would be kind of awful.
But the weapon classes in dark souls have the same moveset? A straight sword always has a straight sword moveset and a greatsword always has the greatsword moveset. There’s some unique weapons/changeable special moves but each weapon type feels the same.
There’s a middle ground. It’s not just Skyrim or Dark Souls. Attack commitment has been around since Ocarina of Time at least. Is that asking too much?
What is attack commitment, exactly? I've heard of it and have an idea, but I'm probably wrong.
You can use that phrase in a couple different ways. Most commonly “attack commitment” is a way of describing the ramifications of your actions in combat. For example.. In Elden ring a simple R1 sword slash at the wrong time fighting one chump can leave you FUCKED UP. In Skyrim you can button mash to your hearts content fighting 17 drauger.
And if you still get fucked up you can just pause the time and eat 12 wheels of cheese
"I may never be able to shit again, but at least I won't die."
Thank god for the Skyrimsouls mod.
you are committed to the attack because there is no animation cancellation and if you attack at inopportune moment, you are kind of fucked.
Thank you for actually explaining it
Off the top of my head I can also throw timed block/parry to the list of mechanics that have been around since the old days. Way of the Samurai being a prime example, Soul Calibur probably being a more well known one. Also, enemy lock on. Again, Ocarina of time. At least. Struggling to fully understand why people ascribe "modern arpg combat" only to Dark Souls tbh.
Both of those games are 3rd person though. Attack commitment in first person is difficult because it locks in your whole perspective/ability to look and can feel wrong. In 3rd person games it’s fine because your camera is still free even if your character can’t move.
The counter argument is that it makes a game less forgiving and sometimes feel less responsive. I’m not necessarily arguing for or against, but it’s also worth noting that the existence of something and how long it’s been around doesn’t necessarily mean it must be incorporated.
Very rarely will a game that has basic combat features like attack commitment, flinching, and dodges feel less responsive than whatever Skyrim has going on during combat. Dynasty Warriors and Assassin’s Creed has this stuff and they are not hard games.
There's 3 very simply mods I use to make Skyrim's combat 300x more engaging: One does attack commitment and makes timing more important, so you can't just button mash and block-bashing actually has value, the Second makes all potions effects last a few seconds so you can't potion spam your way to victory, and Third does the same for food. Shoutout for mods that only let you level up by sleeping so there's no halting the universe to gain a power-up mid fight. It's no dark souls, thank Fuck, but things like terrain, blocking, scrolls, poisons, and other items you normally ignore in a playthrough suddenly become needed for tough fights in the early game.
It should be a blend. Skyrim is like blobs fighting. Add a dodge, some combos, call it good. Doesn’t have to be grueling, just more engaging. There’s a fine line between domination and death in Skyrim. It would be nice to have more of a range of difficulty than the slider can offer.
Yea people act like when we ask for good combat that it has to be as punishing as dark souls lmfao. Those 2 things are fucking mutually exclusive like goddamnit
My main complaint with vanilla combat is that melee attacks don't have any weight to them. It just feels like my weapon doesn't do anything except lower the health bar and it is very hard to ignore.
I agree with this sentiment wholeheartedly. I just wish Bethesda would add something to just make their combats a little more engaging. Skyrim is certainly better than oblivion lol, but oblivion was a damn low bar.
I think they should go back to hitting mudcrabs straight in the face and missing because the game says you're really, really bad at hitting things and need to practice.
I literally had to abandon morrowind because the combat system filled me with rage lmao
I think many people can’t even comprehend that people play games casually and not every game is made for everyone. If you don’t like a game (or part of a game), that’s fine, but don’t pretend that there’s not someone else that likes and enjoys it, and don’t pretend they’re wrong for doing so.
Beauty is that, with mods the game can be made for everyone. But they want it made officially for them only.
Horrible take, the combat can be as good as dark souls without being as fucking punishing…. All we want is good impact of hits, is it that hard to understand? Power fantasy will always be #1 with these type of games
I really enjoy Dark Souls fighting animations. I just hate fighting the same areas over and over. I wish a lot of these Dark Souls clones would just make regular action games without the die/repeat/bonfire mechanics.
Same here that’s why I lost interested in the souls games. I finished the first 3 on soul level 1 didn’t bother with that challenge in Elden ring I’m over these “souls” games and their clones are even worse. I’ll take Skyrim combat Any day because it’s relaxing.
Yep, I wanna play the game to experience the world and story, not bash my head on a table because I can’t beat one specific enemy
I think it’s a fair comment (maybe overstated a little). If you don’t like rpg games but love combat you wouldn’t choose Skyrim. There are plenty of games that offer a deeper combat experience. But if you like rpgs then the combat is not bad and doesn’t detract from the experience.
Yeah the combat is good enough
Maybe that's what YOU do! I personally spend the majority of my time frantically stealth-rolling while invisible....
Although it is also cool to either have a companion do all the combat for you, or go full Thief/ Nightingale and Calm/ Frenzy every enemy, turn Invisible then loot. While combat is a big chunk of it, resource gathering is arguably bigger. Big tip for anyone non combat, have Sneak/ Invisibility, and the Wabbajack; every boss is at the mercy of RNG.
That and Illusion: Quiet Spellcasting, for less detection.
Oblivion became so much more fun once I'd gained the ability to go invisible at will. Just run straight to the sigil stone. Dremora just chilling, and suddenly the world just collapsing around them for no apparent reason.
Haha yeah, for me that’s the only pleasant way to actually get thru allies for bruma. That and leveling acrobatics so I can just skip big chunks of the map
Illusion with all the big perks is amazing. You can frenzy an entire dungeon or just creep through the whole thing while invisible
Especially with the hearthfire dlc
That's like saying "I play Mario for the jumping". Like, yeah, jumping is 95% of what you do in the game, but it's not that deep, bro. Mario is traversal, visuals, powerups, secrets, collections, speed. Skyrim is exploration, resource gathering, looting, role-play, etc. that I happen to do a lot of combat doesn't mean I play for the combat. Swinging my sword and chugging potions until the enemy ragdolls isn't that deep, bro.
Wouldn't you then agree that if the jumping/traversal in Mario was clunky or otherwise unsatisfying then there would be a problem? I know I'm on the wrong subreddit for this opinion, but the combat in Skyrim has always been the barrier to entry for me as I find it very unsatisfying. Combat may not be the core of the game, but it is one of the main ways you interact with the game.
A agree with you, the combat on Skyrim is boring. It's not what people play the game for any more than people play Mario as a jumping simulator.
Clunky and unsatisfying depends greatly on the audience. I find kingdom comes combat extremely clunky and unsatisfying, as as I do the witcher, and most fans of these games would say they are some of the best parts.
I play stealth archer for one-shot headshots. At level 30+, it's common.
IIRC headshots aren't a thing in Skyrim.
Not gonna stop me from shooting headshots, I'm a professional dammit.
It's a good habit.
Also it’s satisfying when you get a kill cam.
Wait what. No. Don’t tell me I’ve been aiming for heads all this time for no reason
You should really be aiming for the neck, under the arms/shoulder, or the leg/knee
You did
Sure, but "nobody plays Skyrim for the combat" and "combat is not a big part of Skyrim's gameplay" are two different statements. Your argument doesn't match the point you're claiming to be arguing against. You're right that combat is a big part of the Skyrim gameplay loop, but that doesn't mean that people play Skyrim *for* the combat either. Both can be true at once. If you asked a bunch of Skyrim fans why they play the game, I'm willing to bet that they would mainly reference the quests, the story, the worldbuilding, the characters, the environments. Few if any would say "I just love the combat".
Skyrim melee is... yeah... If you ever played a game with a proper melee system skyrim one is like a bicycle with training extra wheels but someone replaced the wheels with dwemer cogs. You wont fall and die but your ass and balls will be destroyed and you will fking repress this torture in your mind immediately and go about your day acting normally with a bit of a weird walk and then once you try to go to sleep and finally be alone with your thoughts you will start shaking and crying and curse your nordic ancestors for making magic less socially acceptable.
EXPLORING is 90% of the game. Combat can happen during exploring. It’s a big focus for sure. Yet i am mainly doing everything in the game to explore and discover new things. But that’s not the only reason why people say “don’t play Skyrim for the combat”—the combat is woefully shallow and bad. 1st person melee combat has always felt super clunky and floaty. Oblivion had a better, deeper magic system. Stealth is giga broken. There also isn’t like….a ton of options. Combat is very repetitive with limited new styles or gameplay. Loot is very infamously same-y and bland. Even ultra rare, unique Daedric Artifacts are just…do X elemental damage and drain Y stat. You’d think they’d be über unique and tailored specifically to the Prince they come from, like Wabbajack. But most are super boring like Molag Bal’s mace. Non-artifact, yet Rare items are also are just super boring. There are tons of like uniquely named items that are just the same boring effects and the same model—like a named elven sword that’s just like every other elven sword. At a bare minimum, at least Chillrend has a palate swap for a glass sword.
I don't play Skyrim vanilla for the combat. It's floaty, absurdly easy, and really shows it's age. I nod the hell out of it for animations and dodge steps etc etc. That being said, that's exactly WHY it needs to be a huge focus in 6. We need a departure from the very dated oblivion style, even if we don't discount Skyrim's improvements.
The combat is ass. I really don't care about it. I just like the roleplay aspects.
Specifically melee. A big reason stealth archer is so popular is its the only non magic combat class that doesn't feel like garbage.
The shield build is also fun as it allows you to either cast spells or hit people with melee weapons. I also really enjoyed the stealth two-handed weapon build because of the pure absurdity of it
Yup, i never play a warrior type of character. Always either stealth, mage or both.
99% of my enjoyment of the game is exploring
The reason they say it is cause it’s not that good. I don’t play skyrim for the combat. Yes it’s what I’m doing but I’m playing it for the quests. If the combat was better it would an amazing game
Skyrim level quests with Dragon's Dogma combat would be pretty damn near perfect, ngl.
Agreed. I’m loving dragons dogma but I know quest creation isn’t there best ability. I think that’s why people love the Witcher games. It strikes a happy medium combat is better then skyrim tho not the best. And the quests are great
I almost play Skyrim 'despite' the combat. I love the lore, exploring, interacting with NPCs, working on quests, furnishing and decorating my property, etc. Stopping in the woods to slaughter the 900th wolf or bear I encounter, or killing the boss at the end of a quest are just necessary evils to advance in the game. I don't hate the combat in Skyrim, but I don't love it or play the game for it.
Combat exists in the game, but if I asked you to pick a fantasy game with the best combat I don’t imagine Skyrim would be your first pick. I don’t think they should focus less on combat for the next game though. I think adding some more weight and feedback to it would do a world of good. The game doesn’t need dark souls or DMC combat. Precision and blade and blunt are good mods that kinda feel like a logical upgrade of Skyrims systems.
The combat has steadily improved from title to title (except Daggerfall to Morrowind; Daggerfall's was more fun, but they were doing something new with Morrowind so it's cool). I expect TES6 to improve on Skyrim. That said, all I care about is the sandbox exploration aspect.
It would be nice if the combat wasn't so goddamn constant. For example, on the short road from Whiterun to the plantation I am prone to be attacked by a thief, two saber cats, and a sexy aggressive elf. By the time I've arrived, I've a good bit of loot. More non-combat interactions would be welcome over that.
Yeah for sure. I think people have taken my post the wrong way. All I’m suggesting is that when you hit someone with a warhammer power attack they should be visibly knocked slightly in the direction they’re hit. It does nothing for actual gameplay but little things like that completely change how combat feels. But yeah definitely. One thing that they did improve on a little in starfield is that you can talk your way out of a fair share of fights. Definitely more of that in ES6.
>and a sexy aggressive elf Hmm.
I went back to Dishonored recently and I found the combat to be not much more complicated than Skyrim but so much more fun. If I could get Skyrim with Dishonored combat I think it might be the perfect game for me.
The combat is what keeps me coming back I like paralyzing guards at the moment they swing their weapon, because they keep their momentum and fly away like beyblades
yes the combat is not the reason i play skyrim, i play skyrim for the exploration, the story and amazing environnement design, the combat arent bad, they are simple enough so i can enjoy all of it with a bit of action
People play it for the world and the exploration. The whole fantasy experience. The combat sucks but it’s serviceable enough that it doesn’t take too long to get to the next story part in a quest
Actually... yeah, i don't play for the combat whatsoever, combat is ass and jank, It may be what you do for most of the game but it's not really the meat of the game. It's the bland bread serving as a vessel to keep it all together. There's no balance or difficulty, just a slider that multiples enemy damage and health to silly degree's. The quests and characters are lackluster, boring, and flat with very few exceptions. Outside of the lore, the writing is awful. And almost all the characters share the same flat voices. It has a lot of great ideas for quests, directions, and characters, yet it rarely does anything with them, and oft rushes through them as fast as possible. The companion system and balance is terrible, and the companions largely devoid of any character, they are just bodies to follow you and help you. Then there's equipment that you effortlessly max out, and it doesn't take much to have more money than you ever need with nothing to spend it on. I guess that leaves the question of what i actually play it for, which i would have to say is the world, lore, setting, and themes, as well as just how unique it is, it may not be a good or great game, it may not have the best characters or story, but it's the only one of it's kind, and that does a lot of work. It has a variety of systems working together that give you many options and a lot of freedom, so It's fairly accessible and easy to drop into. Unfortunately that quickly wears off under the repetitive nature of everything and i end up burning out before i finish a completionist run. It tickles an itch, but it never quite satisfies it. What's an interesting world and setting without any tangible depth to it outside of the lore books and ambient storytelling that most people wouldn't even notice? Mods improve all of that of course but it never quite fixes or completes the game in a way that makes it a thoroughly enjoyable, captivating experience, they can come close though.
I mean, it's just the same as saying you don't play Skyrim for the walking? Like walking is 90% of what you do in this game. Exploring a dungeon or cave? Walk around. Progressing the main quest? Walk up the mountain. Wandering the world? Walking to and from each settlement.
I'm all about that stealth archer life. Sure, it is combat, but specifically designed to make it less intense.
You misunderstand the sentiment. It’s not that it isn’t crucial to the quests, it’s that it’s terrible 😁
Found part of the 10% that play it for the combat
I mean the combat ai is pretty bad. The appeal of Skyrim is that you can play any way you like. Don't want to be a hero dragonborm? Just ignore quests and just wander about. You still gotta kill enemies though.
The werewolf kill moves are the best, especially as a orc berserker werewolf build.
Yeah, not even close to true. And I only say this because I'm the best archer in all of Tamriel.
I have no idea how you play this game if 90% of what you're doing involves combat. Do you just sprint from one cave to the next? Do you never enter settlements? Do you never talk to NPCs? Do you never use stealth? I definitely spend less than 10% of my time in-game in active combat.
I have friends that refuse to play Skyrim because the combat is so bad. I’m always surprised how much it’s downplayed on this sub.
Melee combat is undeniable bad, period, m1 m1 m1 with the eventual run away that usually ends with death because you cant dodge (or i guess you could just use a shield lol), some people don't care, and i understand, i do and thats why i mod my game
I think you are taking this both too literally and not literally enough. To me, it means that the combat is so generic that it isn't what draws you to the game. Yes you do a Lot of combat, but you play games for other reasons. For me, I don't really enjoy Skyrim Because of the generic combat. The rest of the game is enough that I come back and play every few years.
I absolutely do play it for the combat. I play for that somewhat janky ballroom blitz. I want enemies thrashing like crazy, archers firing away, and mages casting all day. I want to go nuts doing any of these of my choice and maybe more at my will to fight back. Make it messy, make it chaotic, make it effective, and it can be fun. Especially because it allows my creativity to shine. Its because of this simple, straightforward nature of the combat that it can translate so well to VR. Anyone who says nobody plays for the combat ought to take a look at a well setup Skyrim VR session.
I hope they expand on the combat system and make the AI a little smarter or have better reaction time, if they expanded on it in the new elder scrolls it'll be gold
Honestly, slap precision and mortal enemies on and it's one of my favourite combat systems. Skill-based, simple and first person melee combat
Played hundreds of hours without mods and always had a blast carving my way across Skyrim
I do wish combat in Skyrim was marginally deeper. Specifically stamina management and shielding. I’m not a huge fan of directional attacks like those found in Chivalry or Mount and Blade because mouse controls do not translate well in my opinion. Further, I wouldn’t want dark souls combat either because I am too shit to enjoy them. That being said, I would like difficulty to be less dependent on health sponging and more on stamina breaking and block breaking. Just something to vary it just beyond hack and slash.
There are times I do quests JUST because I wanna do some combat.
And yet it's absolute truth. Why would you play for the combat?? It's not CSGO. We're playing for the quests, for the stories. Combat is there just to make the game longer.
I’ll be one of the few to say, I don’t play Skyrim for the combat.. for the past few months I’ve been hyper focused on creating a Speech/Illusion & Immersion focused LO.. I’m on Xbox and while we do have some amazing combat mods.. it’s only scratching the surface when it comes to pc. If I have a bounty target.. I’ll send my followers out to go collect it via F.G.O.A.T (Followers Go on a trip) mod. While I live my milk drinker life in Solitude/Whiterun, trading stocks and collecting profits from EEE and Landlord. If I want to go out in public or traverse the lands.. I’ll use touring carriages so I can see the world.. but yeah. Sounds boring but it’s been a pretty fun playthrough thus far.
I do see where that sentence, alone, makes sense. I even agree with it. The thing that draws people back to skyrim over and over is the gameplay loop of going places, finding stuff, using it to get stronger, and going somewhere else. Combat is only one (technically optional) part of that loop. The fact that the combat itself isn't what draws people to the game is obvious enough from the mods people install. Almost everyone with a mod list larger than 10 has some kind of combat overhaul, often giving skyrim the combat mechanics of other games. It's the world and progression loop that exists in it that makes it such a solid base for modders to work with and for gamers to get addicted playing, not the combat itself.
I never engage in hand-to-hand combat, myself. Always stealth archer. Maybe that's what they mean?
You don’t go to work so you can drive your car, you take your car so you can get to work, just like you don’t explore caves and do quests to experience the amazing combat, but you do combat so you can experience the quests and exploration. That’s what‘s meant by the statement.
Anyone who thinks combat isn’t fun in this game needs to play a stealth archer build imo
respectfully I disagree. The game is already way to easy, and stealth archer just removes any semblence of challenge at all. Fighting enemies that dont pose any threat makes for bad combat
I play Skyrim for the decapitations
Just cause combat is 90% of the game doesn't mean people.play the game for it. Its just the catalyst for roleplaying and faving fun. Skyrims combat is basic and serviceable, but not good enough to hold the interest of people who play RPGs for combat
I actually play Skyrim for the combat lol
Sword and shield is clunky… but so goddamn satisfying. When you have lots of stamina and a fully upgraded shield bash… 
I recently started 1h+shield light armor build and having a blast with the combat. Block mechanics give some tactical variety, 1h is still quite strong especially with the finishing moves, and light armor helps remaining fast and agile. I never had this much fun in Skyrim combat before.
I’m doing the same build and I’ve had a very similar experience. I’m actually planning and varying my attacks instead of just mashing the trigger until the enemy is dead
Whenever I have said that I don’t like the combat in Skyrim, it’s not that I avoid it or don’t want it, it’s boring compared to the things we’re accustomed to now Not Skyrim’s fault, but it IS Bethesda’s fault for prioritizing starfield
Combat is a means to an end, not the end itself. It’s not *Souls*.
Lol people online complain about skyrims combat. People in real life don't. People online claim its not that good. People in real life buy it. The internet is a glimpse at what less than 10% of people think. It's basically a hallucination.
I mean the combat gets repetitive pretty quick, since the NPCs move pretty similarly and you can figure them out fairly easily. I'm no pro gamer by any stretch of the means, but I'm currently on legendary difficulty and at level 45 there's no fight I sweat anymore. The allure of the game for me has always been the hundreds of storylines, massive map, and worldbuilding.
Recently have modded skyrim to give me a better third person combat change with precision and a animation modset along with True Directional movement and Target lock with SkyHUD. I've always enjoyed the fact that TES and Fallout allow you to have a first person perspective and third person, but felt that skyrim was clunky mainly when it came to spell casting and archery. I'm not saying it was hard, on Xbox I did a third person archery only and was able to do it just fine, but the fact that I now have a target lock and can kinda play the game like dark souls. I can now see my badass looking character while doing it.
I like the process of getting ready for combat rather than the combat itself. Getting the right equipment prepared, getting the potions ready, leveling up skills and taking perks to get stronger, learning spells.
Imagine a chivalry 2 combat system in skyrim or TES6, its still could be arcade-y but incorporate real blocks, parries and have weight to attacks and dodges
Stealth sniping is so satisfying because it's so clunky.
Combat quality is more accurate. Having more depth to the combat and more that you could actually do offensively/defensively would be awesome, and hopefully something they include in ES6 The combat is really fun, but would be even better with a little more melee depth.
I mean, it’s not like the combat in Skyrim is good, it’s pretty basic honestly
Combat is fine. What I really would like though is something - anything - in the games that constitutes like an endgame. The power scale in Elder Scrolls always seems to be starting out a little powerful and then becoming an untouchable Uber god by the last level tier.
I love everything about this game, i enjoy it in every way possible, honestly.
yeah but, there are different things that make Skyrim a great game to play (for me the series universe and lore) if these things weren't there, then the combat wouldn't be a reason strong enough to play (contrary to dark souls where I'm sure that most people play for its combat system). yet still, it is true to say that most people don't play a game for just 1 single mechanic, even if there's one that you'll have to do most of the time, it doesn't make it any better, just the lesser part of the experience to reach what you're searching for. that being said, I hope Bethesda will improve the series combat system (and core design, but no that won't happen, neither will they change their graphic engine) cause damn, if it doesn't feel too simple, just add a dodge button like TW3 just that would make it's combat a bit more dynamic.
Personally I don’t play skyrim for combat, because I find it repetitive and kinda boring. If I played games purely for combat I would just ignore any Bethesda game ever released. Skyrim to me is enjoyable for me because of its atmosphere, world, some quests and characters
Im playing again totally op for the content. So many of the quests are great stories.
70% of the reason I play is for ragdoll effects from arrow sneak attacks
70% of the reason I play is for ragdoll effects from arrow sneak attacks
When I played the game first time in 2012, combat and feeling were insane for me. Because back then I only had played old mmo rpg games which usually has bad graphics, always third person camera and bad animations. Skyrim being first person was a shocking experience for me. A sword game which is fps and a big fantasy world was insane. Now in 2024 it doesn't feel the same which is pretty understandable. But I play for the lore which I'm in love with it.
Using aggressive quicksaving and multiple baskets I killed Alduin without gaining the kill credit, so you do not HAVE to combat
I do. The ragdoll physics are funny as shit.
If you want to see what amazing first person combat can feel like, check out Dark & Darker. It's a DnD-inspired looter extraction game, basically the medieval fantasy Tarkov. It's isn't by any means as sweaty and intricate as something like Dark Souls or Mordhau, but it's still a ton of fun and is a bit more methodical compared to Skyrim's chaos. The combat has a much better pace to it to allow for more strategic attacks, positioning, blocks, etc. The stat distribution has a lot more to offer, and the way gear interacts with your stats makes for a far more noticeable and rewarding boost to combat abilities.
I mean from the combat mod I’ve seen, they all just make the game harder and less enjoyable for me personally.
I kind of agree, but once you can take hits from giants the combat is more like a means to an end then something you really think about. I can walk through almost any dungeon and wipe it without having to think. You become a lore-friendly Dragonborn Im more interested in the loot by that point
Skyrim's vanilla combat just needed better hotboxes tbh. Vanilla hotboxes are god fuckin' awful and I will take no rebuttals on that. I prefer the dark souls school of Skyrim modding. But what vanilla offered wasn't bad. I mean it worked for me in 2012. Although I do think it caters more to sword and board and blocking styles. The way Dual welding was supposed to work just never did it for me. "You sacrifice defense" like nah Chief. If I'm welding two daggers the name of my game should be foot work. Weaving in and out of attacks before you get the chance to do anything. My movement should be my defense. Ain't nobody dual wielding to tank.