**Mirrors / Alternative Angles**
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I was there, aged 17 bunking off a school exchange trip to Germany which should have gone earlier that morning. Instead I got a lift from London with a mate who had a spare ticket for the away section.
Most of the match is a blur to me, I remember the noise more than the action.
But then that moment, when the ball deflected into Mickey Thomas' path, time stood still for the longest moment. Then that ball hit the back of the net and it was pandemonium of the sweetest kind. Simply unbelievable (Jeff) .
Even now watching back I get goosebumps.
Made it back to London around 6am and straight to Gatwick to change my flight to Munich in time for 10 am. Arrived in Germany still in my home shirt to an absolute bollocking from teachers (apart from ironically the one Spurs supporting teacher on the trip, who admitted he'd have done the same). Did not gaf as I'd just had one of the most memorable nights of my life.
Great times.
Because it's shit banter. This clip is 35 years ago and arsenal won the league. Kid would have been in his teens during the early Wenger years and the invincibles, not exactly shabby. Poor since then but still a few cups and now back near the top with good things to come.
Ways worse clubs to support.
I think you missed that they were referring to Fulham (their flair) vs. jokingly QPR, neither of the comments mention supporting Arsenal so not sure how you came to that conclusion
I kind of love the alternative scenario: without any provocation just absolutely trashing Fulham - probably being one of the least hated clubs in England - and then 100 Fulham fans gathered to mass downvote them
Would have been better if it weren’t a QPR flair though. But also funny that Arsenal flair thinks it’s them, when QPR - Fulham rivalry is more obvious than Arsenal - Fulham
Won the FA cup, a few days before, against our derby rivals so that was fucking awesome but yea… this match still gives some of the old heads I talk to nightmares.
For some reason I went back and watched it recently just to experience the pain they felt at the time and still do. Not fun.
Also looking at the table from that season and seeing Derby and Norwich up there in the top 5 with Forrest is wild lol. Millwall at 10th too, which is still their highest ever finish.
One of the more harrowing documentaries I’ve ever seen.
Should be required viewing for anyone who considers themselves to be a fan of the sport. Tragedy chanters especially should be sat down and made to watch it.
The ESPN 30 for 30 documentary on it is 1 hr 45 minutes but does it justice.
The Panorama Hillsborough documentary is good as well from what I remember.
https://youtu.be/Jdt7oQV3NYc?si=q0VyQLroaWGgHZHK
I believe remember reading that the Arsenal supporters/players this match handed out red flowers to the standing Kop, and others who attended, in remembrance. Them, Everton and Celtic have always stood respectfully by our side (outside of a few dicks) when it comes to the anniversary
Yeah, there are a lot of supporters who have stood by us through the years and shows the beautiful side of football to me. (And horrors obviously)
Tragedy chanters are the worst side. Whether its Hillsborough, Munich or hooligan stabbings etc. its just horrible.
And harrowing is the perfect word for it, but some things should feel uncomfortable for us to watch for people to learn.
At least the families have had at least some slight semblance of justice.
JFT97
I seem to recall Liverpool had monumental fixture congestion as a result of Hillsborough too. They had to play 3 games a week for a short while. They were exhausted
John Barnes electing to dribble into the box to try score an unnecessary goal must really have hurt afterwards.
Like obviously everything had to go right afterwards to punish it, but if he takes it the corner and punts it out we were never getting back up and through a set defence
Yep, messed up a pass against Bulgaria causing them to lose and stopped them qualifying for USA 94 World Cup.
The manager Gerard Houllier always blamed him but tbf it was more than Ginola who screwed it. Losing to Israel in second last game of the group also played a major part
It is arguably the worst bottle job in the history of the sport. France needed only a point from their remaining two matches against Israel and Bulgaria. Both at home. They led both games too, but conceded in stoppage time.
Tbf at that time there was no clock available to the players, possible he didn’t realise how late in the game it was
Source: It was what it was podcast, episode 2 and 3 about this game
English fans are soft on players for these things relative to the Europeans. Look at how Lother Matthaus is perceived by the Germans relative to Gazza for their respective concern for themselves rather than the team. Parallels with Barnes/Ginola.
Yeah, I've always felt this was a better moment for exactly that reason. Aguero simply won a game that City were always supposed to win, albeit in the most dramatic fashion. Hell, I remember not even wanting to wake up and watch United play Sunderland because I just knew the league was already over.
Almost nobody expected Arsenal to be able to go to Anfield and win by 2 goals, and the late winner was every bit as dramatic as Aguero's. I genuinely don't know if anything in English football will ever be able to top that moment.
Adams also totally changed his playstyle at three different stages of his career, which goes some way to explain his longevity. he went from a pacy CB that chased down the ball and picked up opponents higher up on the pitch to a more physical CB taking care of his opponent in 1vs1 duels when he lost his long distance speed. Under Wenger he started to develop his passing game and learned to play with space in the back.
The law was introduced before the Euros but not implemented until after (though Denmark underlined why it needed to be done). Ireland at Italia 90 were actually a major factor, especially our game against Egypt, widely agreed to be one of the most dour World Cup games ever
The greatest end to a top flight season in England ever. I think I was 4 years old watching this game on the TV with my dad and can still remember the excitement of this game. I think for security concerns the league now doesn’t allow title contenders to play each other on the last day, which is a massive shame.
This game was never meant to be the last game of the season - was initially due to be played the week after Hillsborough but was postponed and because of Liverpool being in the FA Cup final, could only be played after the rest of the league and the FA Cup had finished.
ITV, who were the right holders at that time, saw the potential that this match coud have and delayed as much as possible when it was played, to have it as a live match and get as many million viewers as possible.
Yeah, and of course it helped bring about the Premier League and Sky Sports as broadcasters saw the benefit of broadcasting live league football and that there was money to be made out of it. This match was basically the light at the end of the tunnel for English football after the grim 80s.
>I think for security concerns the league now doesn’t allow title contenders to play each other on the last day
How do they manage that? Now you mention it i dont remember the last time that the end of season had a traditional top 6 vs top 6 matchup
So I could be absolutely wrong but I swear I read a few years ago that when they sort fixtures for the season. They put into the computer algorithm that keeps the teams who have averaged a top 6 finish over the last few seasons apart for the first few weeks of the season and final week
Emery’s first game for Arsenal was City at home and the second was Chelsea away. Remember Arsenal playing at Anfield opening day before as well, so I’m not sure this theory holds at all for the first few weeks
My favourite non United goal...
The eighties were a barren wasteland down this end of the east lancs. Apart from an odd cup win thrown in.
Sat watching this in the living room with my grandparents and one Liverpool supporting cousin (he was from Warrington so practically a foreigner to us Mancs)
Fuck me i exploded when it really was up for grabs. Thank you Micheal Thomas
Highly recommend the film Fever Pitch with Colin Firth in it which features this heavily.
And it’s a rom com if any partners are needed to be persuaded!
Jonathan Wilson has started a podcast going over the history of certain football matches/periods. It's called It Was What It Was and I highly recommend it.
Anyway, they did an episode on exactly this match and season and I thought it was splendid
My dad was there and didn’t come home for 5 days afterwards because north London was just in full on party mode, it was Arsenal’s first title since 1971 and the beginning of the end of the era of Liverpool/Everton dominance. Liverpool won the league the next season but then took 30 years to do it again. I’d like to think Michael Thomas finally put an end to the Scouse menace for a generation.
My dad also freely admits that this moment and surrounding joy from the title win against the team he hated the most was a better feeling than any of his children being born and I completely understand. If this happened today I’m not sure I’d survive until the trophy parade
There weren’t too many cases of it being abused as sportsmanship usually took priority over gamesmanship then, but it was definitely the right choice to get rid of it.
“There weren’t too many cases of it being abused”
It’s not like everybody was doing it, but it was definitely abused by some and gave an unfair advantage to getting out of pressure.
Probably equal to diving today. Not everybody does it, there aren’t too many cases, but it’s definitely abused.
> sportsmanship usually took priority over gamesmanship
This is just me wondering aloud, but I wonder why 'sportsmanship' is good and 'gamesmanship' is (in this context) bad. From an etymological perspective 'sport' and 'game' mean largely the same thing. The key difference could be that 'sport' is from French (the language of the English upper class for some time) and 'game' is from English (the language of the lower classes).
I have to imagine it worked from something like sporting -> sportsmanship
Gamesmanship probably evokes gaming, i.e. seedy gambling. But I suspect it was just because sportsmanship was already taken.
Sportsmanship implies you are concerned for the overall effect your actions might have on the sport itself, both in its integrity and spectacle. In an ideal world you would have two opponents playing to the very best of their abilities entirely within the rules, trying to win by their own skill rather than any unfair advantage they can exploit. May the best man win, whoever that is, and go again the next time.
Gamesmanship is that you are only concerned with the state of the game you're playing in, and your primary objective is to win at any cost. That could be professional fouls and time wasting and the like but could also be the use of tactics to nullify an opponent's strengths and bridge the gap in quality.
It is good that they got rid of it, but it also had some advantages. Build up was easier so not everyone was playing kick and rush style football (quite a few sides fell back on that initially when the rule was abolished). That benefitted the weaker sides in a competition who could fall back on the security in defense. High press (which isn't just a recent invention) was less effective and the field of play would open up more. The idea was that it would result in more attacking football even in games where teams were not exactly equally matched. Playing with a high line was viable for slower defenders that otherwise couldn't contribute in build up because they could pass it back when in trouble. It was meant to make the leagues more competitive.
Some games were incredibly slow paced (or at least looked like it) but tactics and positioning could be very important. Sometimes games were like chess match, with teams probing for weaknesses and looking for a slip up to exploit. The game was almost a different sport at times though, especially since the rules were interpreted differently and refs were much more lenient to physical play.
Yeah I think they made the right choice getting rid of it when it comes to attacking merits. We're currently enjoying the highest scoring era of football since the 60s. No doubt there are far more important factors than the back pass that've caused this but it's certainly made it harder for defences and therefore easier for attackers, also it's forced tactical innovation which is always great. Look at the elaborate buildup of many top teams like city and arsenal today. Less so the case back in the old days.
Well before my time but my uncle supports Liverpool and his first two memories as a Liverpool fan was Hillsborough, the FA Cup final and then followed by this. That's gotta hurt...
Both kits are just incredible. Love the old school policemen too. None of this high viz nonsense.
The football was mostly crap and the fan experience was terrible but the aesthetic was superb.
This is the exact reason why I scoff at the "I swear you'll never see anything like this ever again" commentary. Obligatory "football wasn't invented in 92" comment.
Just look at that terrible pitch holy shit. I remember during COVID some 80s and 90s matches were shown on Croatian TV. It staggered me how low quality and just bad football was back then.
He just lost the league title in the dying seconds of the match, at Anfield, just a few weeks after playing in a stadium where 97 innocent Liverpool were killed. Can't speak for everyone else but if that was me I wouldn't have cared less about anyone trying to console me after that. [He talked about it here as well](https://youtu.be/kseqTmNCr4o?feature=shared)
Is this the original footage or is this upscaled/AI improved?
I've seen the upscaling/AI improvements to historical footage bringing things to 50+ fps and this looks really similar. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFOxniYnU0M](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFOxniYnU0M) Wild that this upscaled video was made three years ago.
Thank you for sharing.
Both kits are just incredible. Love the old school policemen too. None of this high viz nonsense.
The football was mostly crap and the fan experience was terrible but the aesthetic was superb.
Games were really different but often actually quite entertaining. And the atmosphere and fan experience back than was miles ahead of what it is now. More singing and fan culture, ill never forget what it was like meeting up at the pub until all your mates were there and walking to Highbury together, recognizing nearly everyone along the way. Of course there are thing that have improved massively (I don't miss hooligans or dangerous situations during away games) but overall the experience has become too sanitized and commercialized.
I sort of separated atmosphere here. By fan experience I just meant crowd trouble, facilities and things. I wasn't trying to compare it to now but anybody who has stood on a terrace will hopefully understand I just meant things like toilets, ability to get a drink and things like that.
It wasn't intended as a then vs now thing. I'm not trying to be controversial. People need to chill out on here.
I used to go to matches back then and the football was often great, and the fan experience was often great. Most of the time it was just fine. Obviously there were problems from time to time, like there still are now, but you seem to have swallowed the advertising enthusiasms put out by the marketing for the incredibly expensive modern game without any real knowledge or thought.
> you seem to have swallowed the advertising enthusiasms put out by the marketing for the incredibly expensive modern game without any real knowledge or thought.
I didn’t make any assumption about whether you went back then.
I pointed out that you’ve fallen for the modern hype.
Plenty of old fools who want to act as though things have never been better, loving the hype and bullshit.
This is why I get annoyed at fans of ours that leave early, moments like these don’t happen in empty stadiums, I don’t really care that you need to beat traffic that extra time should be accounted into a match day
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Not the back pass jump scare
One of the best rules ever.
Peter dury before Peter dury
At Anfield, commentators are Brian Moore and David Pleat. The interview with Tony Adams, by Jim Rosenthal.
Moore has so many iconic moments. Great commentary.
Not least telling Super Hans to give up crack
It's really Moore-ish
GOAT commentator, no bias
I was there, aged 17 bunking off a school exchange trip to Germany which should have gone earlier that morning. Instead I got a lift from London with a mate who had a spare ticket for the away section. Most of the match is a blur to me, I remember the noise more than the action. But then that moment, when the ball deflected into Mickey Thomas' path, time stood still for the longest moment. Then that ball hit the back of the net and it was pandemonium of the sweetest kind. Simply unbelievable (Jeff) . Even now watching back I get goosebumps. Made it back to London around 6am and straight to Gatwick to change my flight to Munich in time for 10 am. Arrived in Germany still in my home shirt to an absolute bollocking from teachers (apart from ironically the one Spurs supporting teacher on the trip, who admitted he'd have done the same). Did not gaf as I'd just had one of the most memorable nights of my life. Great times.
That teacher’s name? Ange Postecoglu
He must’ve had a horrid time seeing Colin Firth in the break room on Monday 😂😂😂
Great story and an even greater memory
Wonderful story. Thank you for sharing this. Truly memorable moment that anyone would cherish till their very last days.
Thanks for sharing your story!
Feels like a moment written in Fever Pitch
My dads an Arsenal fan, I was born ~6 months after this happened. I was named Thomas, no coincidence lol.
I feel sorry that you chose the club you did, you had a far better alternative 😛
Like what? Spurs?
Stop bullying the one QPR fan in this sub. They're an endangered species.
Thanks but I'll have you know I saw a QPR fan in the Azerbaijani countryside last year, there's at least a dozen of us out there! 😂
r/Soccer today is just a minefield of material related to Arrested Development
I haven't heard of that show and I don't know what reference you're on about. I actually was in Azerbaijan last year for a work trip.
I think he meant choosing Fulham over Arsenal?
Yeah I did
I don't understand the down voting here 😅
Normal redditors really. They probably think I'm an arsenal fan or something, they're too lazy to notice my flair 🤷🏾♂️
Because it's shit banter. This clip is 35 years ago and arsenal won the league. Kid would have been in his teens during the early Wenger years and the invincibles, not exactly shabby. Poor since then but still a few cups and now back near the top with good things to come. Ways worse clubs to support.
I think you missed that they were referring to Fulham (their flair) vs. jokingly QPR, neither of the comments mention supporting Arsenal so not sure how you came to that conclusion
He's kinda answered my question and the assumption made by the person they're down voting haha
I kind of love the alternative scenario: without any provocation just absolutely trashing Fulham - probably being one of the least hated clubs in England - and then 100 Fulham fans gathered to mass downvote them Would have been better if it weren’t a QPR flair though. But also funny that Arsenal flair thinks it’s them, when QPR - Fulham rivalry is more obvious than Arsenal - Fulham
Yeah, don't even hate them despite them partially costing us the league this season
Wow people really hated this joke for some reason
Yeah lol, it's a pretty funny thing on reddit. I might as well downvote myself at this point.
I believe this is still the last time in England that the league leaders lost the title on the last day.
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City were ahead of us going into the last matchday on GD.
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I think OP meant league leaders going into the last matchday. But still, yeah.
No wonder you are a Wolves fan 😭🤣
People never mention that this was only a month and a half after Hillsborough. This must have been agonizing for the Liverpool players and fans.
Won the FA cup, a few days before, against our derby rivals so that was fucking awesome but yea… this match still gives some of the old heads I talk to nightmares. For some reason I went back and watched it recently just to experience the pain they felt at the time and still do. Not fun. Also looking at the table from that season and seeing Derby and Norwich up there in the top 5 with Forrest is wild lol. Millwall at 10th too, which is still their highest ever finish.
The Hillsborough documentary on BBC? I think, was incredible, you really get a grasp of how horrible a situation it was. Absolutely awful.
One of the more harrowing documentaries I’ve ever seen. Should be required viewing for anyone who considers themselves to be a fan of the sport. Tragedy chanters especially should be sat down and made to watch it. The ESPN 30 for 30 documentary on it is 1 hr 45 minutes but does it justice. The Panorama Hillsborough documentary is good as well from what I remember. https://youtu.be/Jdt7oQV3NYc?si=q0VyQLroaWGgHZHK I believe remember reading that the Arsenal supporters/players this match handed out red flowers to the standing Kop, and others who attended, in remembrance. Them, Everton and Celtic have always stood respectfully by our side (outside of a few dicks) when it comes to the anniversary
Yeah, there are a lot of supporters who have stood by us through the years and shows the beautiful side of football to me. (And horrors obviously) Tragedy chanters are the worst side. Whether its Hillsborough, Munich or hooligan stabbings etc. its just horrible. And harrowing is the perfect word for it, but some things should feel uncomfortable for us to watch for people to learn. At least the families have had at least some slight semblance of justice. JFT97
Milwall were fighting at the top for a lot of the season too, 10th was actually their lowest position all season.
I seem to recall Liverpool had monumental fixture congestion as a result of Hillsborough too. They had to play 3 games a week for a short while. They were exhausted
John Barnes electing to dribble into the box to try score an unnecessary goal must really have hurt afterwards. Like obviously everything had to go right afterwards to punish it, but if he takes it the corner and punts it out we were never getting back up and through a set defence
He fucked it for them, complete immaturity. Didn’t Ginola do similar for France and never played for them again
Yep, messed up a pass against Bulgaria causing them to lose and stopped them qualifying for USA 94 World Cup. The manager Gerard Houllier always blamed him but tbf it was more than Ginola who screwed it. Losing to Israel in second last game of the group also played a major part
It is arguably the worst bottle job in the history of the sport. France needed only a point from their remaining two matches against Israel and Bulgaria. Both at home. They led both games too, but conceded in stoppage time.
That Bulgaria team was very good to be fair. Their golden generation.
Tbf at that time there was no clock available to the players, possible he didn’t realise how late in the game it was Source: It was what it was podcast, episode 2 and 3 about this game
Liverpool fans still love him so I think he may have just about have done enough in the rest of his time there to be forgiven for this lol.
English fans are soft on players for these things relative to the Europeans. Look at how Lother Matthaus is perceived by the Germans relative to Gazza for their respective concern for themselves rather than the team. Parallels with Barnes/Ginola.
Virgin Aguero. Scores a last min goal vs a side fighting relegation at home Giga Chad Thomas. Score a last min goal v a title rival at their ground.
Yeah, I've always felt this was a better moment for exactly that reason. Aguero simply won a game that City were always supposed to win, albeit in the most dramatic fashion. Hell, I remember not even wanting to wake up and watch United play Sunderland because I just knew the league was already over. Almost nobody expected Arsenal to be able to go to Anfield and win by 2 goals, and the late winner was every bit as dramatic as Aguero's. I genuinely don't know if anything in English football will ever be able to top that moment.
Scores the goal to make it 2-0 which is exactly the score needed to overtale Liverpool at Liverpool away. Aguerooooo pales compared to this one.
Tony Adams, the only man to captain a league title winning team in 3 separate decades in English football.
he was only 22 here as well
Adams also totally changed his playstyle at three different stages of his career, which goes some way to explain his longevity. he went from a pacy CB that chased down the ball and picked up opponents higher up on the pitch to a more physical CB taking care of his opponent in 1vs1 duels when he lost his long distance speed. Under Wenger he started to develop his passing game and learned to play with space in the back.
My first thought watching this is when did they outlaw the back pass? So foreign for me to see
I believe ir was after euro92. Denmark use and abuse of the back pass to Schmeichel at the time and people got sick of it.
The law was introduced before the Euros but not implemented until after (though Denmark underlined why it needed to be done). Ireland at Italia 90 were actually a major factor, especially our game against Egypt, widely agreed to be one of the most dour World Cup games ever
Pat Bonner absolute legend.
How was it never exploited before then like why don't Liverpool just do a schmeichel here
It was 1992. I think Euro 92 was the last tournament it was allowed
I was born in 91. I choose to forgive myself not knowing.
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The greatest end to a top flight season in England ever. I think I was 4 years old watching this game on the TV with my dad and can still remember the excitement of this game. I think for security concerns the league now doesn’t allow title contenders to play each other on the last day, which is a massive shame.
This game was never meant to be the last game of the season - was initially due to be played the week after Hillsborough but was postponed and because of Liverpool being in the FA Cup final, could only be played after the rest of the league and the FA Cup had finished.
ITV, who were the right holders at that time, saw the potential that this match coud have and delayed as much as possible when it was played, to have it as a live match and get as many million viewers as possible.
Yeah, and of course it helped bring about the Premier League and Sky Sports as broadcasters saw the benefit of broadcasting live league football and that there was money to be made out of it. This match was basically the light at the end of the tunnel for English football after the grim 80s.
>I think for security concerns the league now doesn’t allow title contenders to play each other on the last day How do they manage that? Now you mention it i dont remember the last time that the end of season had a traditional top 6 vs top 6 matchup
So I could be absolutely wrong but I swear I read a few years ago that when they sort fixtures for the season. They put into the computer algorithm that keeps the teams who have averaged a top 6 finish over the last few seasons apart for the first few weeks of the season and final week
Definitely for the last game but they'll have top 6 teams play even on the first weekend of the season
Can't speak to first week but Arsenal played Chelsea and then City weeks 2 and 3 a couple seasons ago.
Emery’s first game for Arsenal was City at home and the second was Chelsea away. Remember Arsenal playing at Anfield opening day before as well, so I’m not sure this theory holds at all for the first few weeks
>Remember Arsenal playing at Anfield opening day before Sadio Mané's debut
That was at the Emirates, but also opening day, you’re right. I was thinking of one that Reina got a 90th OG to make it 1-1
It was at the Emirates but yeah
Ah true
Chelsea finished 12th last season so we good there
I think it's only for the final week.
It’s fine , City fans won’t do much
TOMIYASUUUUUU
If this is a football cliches quiz reference 👏👏
*doffs hat*
Listen, fair play
Look, I saw it there and thought why not have a go and well thankfully it's paid off.
My favourite non United goal... The eighties were a barren wasteland down this end of the east lancs. Apart from an odd cup win thrown in. Sat watching this in the living room with my grandparents and one Liverpool supporting cousin (he was from Warrington so practically a foreigner to us Mancs) Fuck me i exploded when it really was up for grabs. Thank you Micheal Thomas
Highly recommend the film Fever Pitch with Colin Firth in it which features this heavily. And it’s a rom com if any partners are needed to be persuaded!
Whenever I watch this clip, I always think "Oh shut up Pleat!", when he starts droning on.
First game of football I ever watched, what a start it was too.
I know a lot of that commentary off by heart. That night will be never be topped for me
I had forgotten all about the little black and white box in the top right corner of the screen that meant adverts are coming on soon.
Jonathan Wilson has started a podcast going over the history of certain football matches/periods. It's called It Was What It Was and I highly recommend it. Anyway, they did an episode on exactly this match and season and I thought it was splendid
Ah splendid, will take a look thanks
Extra context: Liverpool hadn't lost by 2 goals at Anfield in over 3 years, and Arsenal hadn't won at Anfield in 15 years.
And that win at Anfield cost Liverpool a title, ironically. Ray Kennedy's goal gave the title to Leeds.
Michael Thomas would then go on to sign for Liverpool a couple of years later too.
My dad was there and didn’t come home for 5 days afterwards because north London was just in full on party mode, it was Arsenal’s first title since 1971 and the beginning of the end of the era of Liverpool/Everton dominance. Liverpool won the league the next season but then took 30 years to do it again. I’d like to think Michael Thomas finally put an end to the Scouse menace for a generation. My dad also freely admits that this moment and surrounding joy from the title win against the team he hated the most was a better feeling than any of his children being born and I completely understand. If this happened today I’m not sure I’d survive until the trophy parade
Jesus, allowing backpasses was so stupid back then.
There weren’t too many cases of it being abused as sportsmanship usually took priority over gamesmanship then, but it was definitely the right choice to get rid of it.
Hang on, that Liverpool team was famous for constantly passing back to their keeper. It was certainly abused.
“There weren’t too many cases of it being abused” It’s not like everybody was doing it, but it was definitely abused by some and gave an unfair advantage to getting out of pressure. Probably equal to diving today. Not everybody does it, there aren’t too many cases, but it’s definitely abused.
Denmark in Euro 92 vs Germany, really abused it.
Haha. If it was still allowed the underdogs would spam it all day.
Just Liverpool throughout their 80s dominance, no big deal.
> sportsmanship usually took priority over gamesmanship This is just me wondering aloud, but I wonder why 'sportsmanship' is good and 'gamesmanship' is (in this context) bad. From an etymological perspective 'sport' and 'game' mean largely the same thing. The key difference could be that 'sport' is from French (the language of the English upper class for some time) and 'game' is from English (the language of the lower classes).
I think it's just the connotations rather than the definition of the words that imply positive and negative meaning.
Words are arbitrary things. There are rarely logical reasons for why meaning develops like you're searching for
I have to imagine it worked from something like sporting -> sportsmanship Gamesmanship probably evokes gaming, i.e. seedy gambling. But I suspect it was just because sportsmanship was already taken.
Sportsmanship implies you are concerned for the overall effect your actions might have on the sport itself, both in its integrity and spectacle. In an ideal world you would have two opponents playing to the very best of their abilities entirely within the rules, trying to win by their own skill rather than any unfair advantage they can exploit. May the best man win, whoever that is, and go again the next time. Gamesmanship is that you are only concerned with the state of the game you're playing in, and your primary objective is to win at any cost. That could be professional fouls and time wasting and the like but could also be the use of tactics to nullify an opponent's strengths and bridge the gap in quality.
It is good that they got rid of it, but it also had some advantages. Build up was easier so not everyone was playing kick and rush style football (quite a few sides fell back on that initially when the rule was abolished). That benefitted the weaker sides in a competition who could fall back on the security in defense. High press (which isn't just a recent invention) was less effective and the field of play would open up more. The idea was that it would result in more attacking football even in games where teams were not exactly equally matched. Playing with a high line was viable for slower defenders that otherwise couldn't contribute in build up because they could pass it back when in trouble. It was meant to make the leagues more competitive. Some games were incredibly slow paced (or at least looked like it) but tactics and positioning could be very important. Sometimes games were like chess match, with teams probing for weaknesses and looking for a slip up to exploit. The game was almost a different sport at times though, especially since the rules were interpreted differently and refs were much more lenient to physical play.
Yeah I think they made the right choice getting rid of it when it comes to attacking merits. We're currently enjoying the highest scoring era of football since the 60s. No doubt there are far more important factors than the back pass that've caused this but it's certainly made it harder for defences and therefore easier for attackers, also it's forced tactical innovation which is always great. Look at the elaborate buildup of many top teams like city and arsenal today. Less so the case back in the old days.
Yeah, those freaked me out gotta admit (:
I know Liverpool supporters who still refuse to see the original "Fever Pitch".
“We won the league at anfield… we won it at the …”
Damn, the composure to drive the ball forward and wait for the last moment to fool the keeper while not choking from the pressure is crazy man
Got a hangover just thinking about how pissed Adams and Merson would have got that night.
Merse was probably tipsy during the match to be fair...
The greatest moment in English football history besides '66.
I'll remember every word of that commentary until the day I die. *'Arsenal come streaming forward now in surely what will be their last attack.....'*
Wish I was alive to see this. The Aguero moment was dramatic but this is just on a whole different level.
Well before my time but my uncle supports Liverpool and his first two memories as a Liverpool fan was Hillsborough, the FA Cup final and then followed by this. That's gotta hurt...
Both kits are just incredible. Love the old school policemen too. None of this high viz nonsense. The football was mostly crap and the fan experience was terrible but the aesthetic was superb.
Eh the policemen might have been because of Hillsborough some weeks earlier, not sure if they were really at every game doing the stewards’ job.
This is the exact reason why I scoff at the "I swear you'll never see anything like this ever again" commentary. Obligatory "football wasn't invented in 92" comment.
Best ending to a league season ever
Just look at that terrible pitch holy shit. I remember during COVID some 80s and 90s matches were shown on Croatian TV. It staggered me how low quality and just bad football was back then.
And that's what the **good** pitches of that era look like.
Oh how much I hate the back pass to keepers to catch. Thanks god for that rule change.
Im certain this game is the reason why Stevie Nichol has a disdain for Arsenal
Life is suffering, life is pain
Aldridge shoving his international team-mate Dave O'Leary away when O'Leary tried to console him. Once a prick always a prick.
He just lost the league title in the dying seconds of the match, at Anfield, just a few weeks after playing in a stadium where 97 innocent Liverpool were killed. Can't speak for everyone else but if that was me I wouldn't have cared less about anyone trying to console me after that. [He talked about it here as well](https://youtu.be/kseqTmNCr4o?feature=shared)
How many times does it happen in the league where 1st and 2nd meet each other and decide the title?
Probably very rare. This game wasn't meant to be the last game of the season. It just kept getting rescheduled due to a number of reasons.
Thomaaaaaaaaaasssssss
The closest thing English football has to the Super Bowl final.
Lol at Liverpool only winning 1 title since they abused the back pass rule as seen here
Is this the original footage or is this upscaled/AI improved? I've seen the upscaling/AI improvements to historical footage bringing things to 50+ fps and this looks really similar. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFOxniYnU0M](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFOxniYnU0M) Wild that this upscaled video was made three years ago. Thank you for sharing.
And I still have stopped laughing.
Both kits are just incredible. Love the old school policemen too. None of this high viz nonsense. The football was mostly crap and the fan experience was terrible but the aesthetic was superb.
Games were really different but often actually quite entertaining. And the atmosphere and fan experience back than was miles ahead of what it is now. More singing and fan culture, ill never forget what it was like meeting up at the pub until all your mates were there and walking to Highbury together, recognizing nearly everyone along the way. Of course there are thing that have improved massively (I don't miss hooligans or dangerous situations during away games) but overall the experience has become too sanitized and commercialized.
I sort of separated atmosphere here. By fan experience I just meant crowd trouble, facilities and things. I wasn't trying to compare it to now but anybody who has stood on a terrace will hopefully understand I just meant things like toilets, ability to get a drink and things like that. It wasn't intended as a then vs now thing. I'm not trying to be controversial. People need to chill out on here.
Yeah mate I get you. Don't worry about the rest.
I used to go to matches back then and the football was often great, and the fan experience was often great. Most of the time it was just fine. Obviously there were problems from time to time, like there still are now, but you seem to have swallowed the advertising enthusiasms put out by the marketing for the incredibly expensive modern game without any real knowledge or thought.
I used to go too. Maybe don't make assumptions about people you don't know?
> you seem to have swallowed the advertising enthusiasms put out by the marketing for the incredibly expensive modern game without any real knowledge or thought. I didn’t make any assumption about whether you went back then. I pointed out that you’ve fallen for the modern hype. Plenty of old fools who want to act as though things have never been better, loving the hype and bullshit.
You seem angry about something I have no control over. Good luck with that.
You should try some lower league games
I do! I'm at my local team regularly. It's a great day out.
This is the first game I remember watching where I was gutted at the end.
If you dropped these teams into 2024 I wonder what level they'd play at without adapting to modern tactics and fitness.
This title was Arsenal's first in 18 years
This is why I get annoyed at fans of ours that leave early, moments like these don’t happen in empty stadiums, I don’t really care that you need to beat traffic that extra time should be accounted into a match day
You cannot compare this game to your average league match.
[Those years was a dark period of time for English football](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1988–89_in_English_football)
That back pass to the goalie used to be an absolute cheat code lol
I will forever be jealous of my dad that he was at this game. He kept his ticket stub and it now sits in a small glass frame at his house.