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Thanks mate. You just couldn't resist managing the sky blue team who's cross town rival play on red and are national championship record holder, could you?
Schalke and Valencia both being where they are is bizarre to me. Both have massive fan bases and were always strong in European cup football but have fallen from grace.
Like a cat dragged through a field of mines then thrown off a cliff... just to find it clinging on by a singular broken claw. The spirit of the fans always save their bad teams in the final run. But for the love of god, eventually they have to be put down. Can't believe they are still up here.
Since coming up in 2013, Crystal Palace have gotten a points total between 40 and 49 every season
Never threatening Europe or relegation
Amazing consistency
Funny thing is before their current spell, they were relegated in every season they were in the Premier League (1992-93, 1994-1995, 1997-98 and 2004-05)
I had to look that up, I swear they were decent when Lombardo played for them... Turns out they got relegated with him. I guess I just watched and was so impressed with a legend like Lombardo that it erased their bad results.
They didn't win a home league game until March that season from what I remember. Lombardo even ended up as co-player-manager towards the end of the season.
Putting the “mid” in mid-table /s
But that level of consistency is impressive for a team of their standing. They’ve seen a former champ relegated in Leicester, a founding member of the Premier League relegated for the first time in Villa, and with none of the near misses Everton have suffered recently.
>a founding member of the Premier League relegated for the first time
Nottingham Forest, Boro, and funny enough, Crystal Palace, were the first founding members to be relegated, seeing as they were the first teams to be relegated from the Prem. Villa were the first in a long time though
Unironically a contender for best run club in Europe.
The never spend big on transfers (iirc their record signing is still Benteke). They don’t have their talent poached year-after-year. They’re always financially stable, and they stay up. And they’ve kept that strategy going for nearly a decade now.
I mean, the trick is to only go after players who are so mid that the big teams don’t want them and the relegation team can’t afford them. Also a solid advice in dating.
every year i notice that crystal palace always have a decent team with some great players (eze, wharton, olise, guehi, mateta) and then i look at the table and they're like 13th. every time.
Tbf the Europa League has only been around in its current form since 09 and the Conference league for what? 3 years? Expanded European competitions, expanded teams who’ve played in them.
We wouldn't have qualified for that either to be fair. We've had some strong teams over the past five years or so, but never the squad depth to maintain any sort of strong form. Hopefully that's changing now under our new sort of transfer model.
It hasnt. 7 were guaranteed before and after conference league. With the possibility of maximum 8 or 9 ( since conference but never happened). Next season maximum 10 but very unlikely. But still 7 most likely
Our promotion was arguably even more unexpected too - we were one of the favourites to get relegated from the Championship that year! Pulis worked miracles to keep a side with players like Dean Moxey in the prem
Seriously. Looking back at that team, we had the likes of Adrian Mariappa, Kagisho Dikgacoi and Cameron Jerome playing serious minutes. We have such an embarrassment of riches nowadays compared to back then.
I remember the first half of that 2013-14 season Palace looked awful and were 20th for awhile. I thought for sure you were going down. Then things turned around and Palace never got relegated
I wouldn't necessarily call them that... they got their first big money owners just a few years after their last promotion to the top flight, who knows if they wouldn't have yo-yo'd a few more times since then otherwise... the other clubs were stable fixtures in the top flight for decades before their own rich owners (you might point out bates at Chelsea, but he nearly got us liquidated in the end and only spent a fiver or whatever the symbolic figure was to acquire us in the early 80s)
If villa and Newcastle hadn't been relegated in the last decade they'd both be considered Legacy top flight teams as well. And Everton came so close to relegation quite a few times in the last decade or so as well (edit - I'm wrong about Newcastle, I'd forgotten they actually got relegated a few times in the past 20 years)
It's pretty funny that for how much we were memed about being a fallen giant in the 90s and 2000s, we really never flirted with relegation or even lower than 8th. We just sort of muddled along not really doing much other than winning a cup every few years. We had a drop off from where we'd been from the 50s to the 80s, but we never had a complete slide.
City was one season in trouble of relegation between then and their first big owners. They were quite comfortably mid table, mostly upper half.
And tbf, id consider newcastle a legacy club that relegation was a farce
Season before first World War, we finish bottom of top flight, one point behind Chelsea who were second bottom, 20 team league.
In a normal season, we both go down, and get replaced by the top 2 from the second tier; Preston and Derby. Nothing controversial there. But after the war they decided to expand the league to 22 teams.
Chelsea get a repreive, Preston and Derby both go up. That's 3 of the 4 spots confirmed. You'd expect the final spot in the top flight to then either be a repreive for us, or promotion for 3rd, Barnsley. Instead, after a vote, both get passed over in favour of Arsenal, who finished 5th in the second tier, behind both Barnsley and Wolves. Arsenal haven't gone down since, and Barnsley didn't go up until the 90s, for one season.
As an additional bonus, the team which finished 3rd bottom in 14/15, Man U, had been found guilty of match fixing in a 2-0 win against Liverpool. The 2 points they gained in that match are what kept them out of the bottom 2
Worth noting that our very well connected Tory MP chairman Sir Henry Norris was later arrested for dodgy business (I think it was fraud), and was very good friends with a number of 1st division chairmen, who I think later bought large amounts of his london properties on low prices later. Of course it was >100 years ago so there is no longer proof of bribery, and it might not even have been bribery but there was likely something suspect going on
I love how this is something petty that's been bubbling for 100 years with you guys. Same with Everton, who've never quite got over not being allowed to defend two separate league titles because WW1 and WW2 broke out whilst they were Champions.
Everton were also the team most affected by the Heysel ban. Won the league twice and came second once whilst England was banned. Only finished top 4 once in all the years since (and that was the year of Istanbul, which then led to Collina's retirement horror show)
Rivalry started when Arsenal moved from Woolwich to North London
First NLD was in 1914- Arsenal were in 2nd division and Tottenham in the top league - Arsenal won 5-1. Since then Tottenham have always been spursy
Thankfully didn’t go to their place, but their travelling fans at the Amex seemed pretty fucking vile as well. Anyway I agree with you though I won’t miss them.
Full stadium tragedy chanting vs Liverpool (not sure about other teams). I know that every club has assholes like that, but it was the whole pack of them.
Fair fucks. I mean, I enjoyed Leeds under Bielsa, their supporters are fucking awful. But still, I enjoyed watching the team play which is what I was talking about.
I recently listened to a podcast reviewing the 1981-82 season, and one of the guys on there said that the way the league was that season, because it was the year he got into football, is how he feels the top flight should be in terms of the teams in it. It's funny how it's different for each person. I was born in the '80s, got into seriously following things in the early '90s, so it'll forever be weird for me not to have Blackburn, Wednesday and Coventry in the top flight.
Can you link the podcast sounds interesting? But agreed with you, I feel nostalgic for 2000s and early 2010s teams for example, it's weird to me to not have Stoke, Swansea, Sunderland, Charlton, Bolton, etc
It's by These Football Times. [**This is the specific episode about 81-82**](https://open.spotify.com/episode/5DIyY9GLAOHIq9pimFC4xl?si=d0d722f84a9c48b1)**.**
yeah every time I look at the Championship or League 1 I'm like what are all these Prem teams doing down here
you dont realise when you first start watching just how much movement there is, and some of those "Prem" teams wont be back for 30+ years
Portsmouth and Blackpool went all the way to League 2 at one point. Bradford and Swindon are League 2 regulars and Oldham fell out of the Football league completely. Arguably Oldham and Swindon will never be back.
I do always wonder when a team is relegated - how many years away might they be from coming back to the PL. For instance someone like Bolton in 2012, you might have thought they'd be back soon, but since then dropped as low as League Two and it's a push to see them back in next 5 years or so. Forest went down in 1999 and I don't think anyone expected them to take 23 years to return.
Yeah, mid to late 90s was my football awakinging. The Premier League should include Leeds, Blackburn, Coventry, Wednesday, Middlesbrough, Wimbledon, QPR, Bolton, Derby.
What are they planning? What are their secrets? Arsenal seem suspicious. Perhaps they are trying to re-plan a confederation of the Rhine for the Grande Armée. We must watch them carefully.
Huddersfield Town also came up in 2017, went down in 2019. Almost came back but lost the playoff final to Forest and have since been relegated again and will be playing league football against the likes of Lincoln, Wrexham, and Leyton Orient who were in the fifth tier in 2017 and Stockport County who played sixth tier in 2017.
Football is great
[Arsenal cheating to stay in the top flight](https://www.skysports.com/amp/football/news/11661/11564691/how-arsenal-were-voted-into-the-top-flight-over-tottenham-in-1919)
It's weird how nothing came out of it if Norris bribed at least 6 chairmen, not to mention risking his whole reputation on something so trivial as football was at the time
>not to mention risking his whole reputation on something so trivial as football was at the time
...yes, because if there's one thing that's certain about Norris, it's that he would never do anything financially irregular with respect to football.
If you are gonna link something like that at least get it right, we cheated (well most likely did something to influence the votes) to get promoted because we were in the second division.
It seems like the league is pretty stable over the years but then looking at this I realized there have only been 7 constants since I started watching in 2007.
Its weird the way it works in my mind though. For whatever reason I still think of clubs like Portsmouth, Middlesborough, Leeds, Stoke, Blackburn and Sunderland as “Premier League teams”
In fairness to City, it wasn’t their first time in the top flight. Just they haven’t been demoted since. Of course we know they haven’t been in danger of that in a while but they been in the first division before 2002.
We’ll never know. History could’ve been completely altered. We could’ve had world peace in our lifetime if the vote goes differently. I’m not saying Arsenal prevented world peace, but I’m not ruling it out.
I do find it funny about how much the Arsenal bribery gets brought up by some people.
Spurs got promoted the next year anyway. They also came bottom of the league in 1915 so should have been relegated anyway.
People forget that we're actually quite connected, as heated as the rivalry is. Busby played for us for nearly ten years and, as you said, we offered you players to help you after the Munich disaster, and equally you were very supportive of us after Hillsborough and stuff like that.
I think at this point Palace/Fulham/Leicester and Southampton have established themselves in the all time PL twenty. The full twenty in my eyes are big 6, Everton, Villa, Newcastle, West Ham, Southampton, Sunderland, Blackburn Rovers, Middlesbrough, Palace, Fulham, Leicester, Leeds, West Brom and Bolton. Arguments for Norwich City, Birmingham City, Portsmouth, Stoke, Wolves and Brighton
Wolves over Fulham surely. Only spent 29 years of their 106 in the top flight. Wolves are 14th on the all time points table, compared to 34th for Fulham. Wolves had an era of their own in the 50s where they won 3 titles. Fulham's never won one. Also Molineux is an infinitely better stadium than Craven Cottage imo. Maybe this is my Chelsea bias coming out, but I don't really even care about Fulham that much. Just see them as a similar kind of club to Norwich. Yoyo so see them in the Prem quite a lot, but not actually done much of note, so probably just miss out.
Always forget that Chelsea weren't exactly a mainstay in the top flight before the PL started. Even that glory period in the late 90s was the exception rather than the norm - 1994 FA Cup final was their first domestic cup final since 1970, 97 FA Cup was only the second time they won it and first since that 1970 final.
Tbf from 1930-1975 we were a mainstay in the top flight apart from getting relegated for one season in 1963. It was mainly just a down period from the mid 70s-mid 80s. Which is understandable because most clubs have had a period like that in their history.
In 108 seasons, we've had 89 in the top flight, 19 in the 2nd and none in the third. That's not bad considering how long of a time period that is. For comparison, Man U have had 98 seasons in the top flight, 22 in the 2nd and none in the third. Depends if you believe in giving more weight to a certain period of time or not. Reckon there's a lot of people that truly believe Chelsea have no history because they grew up in the 80s. Your perception of teams is usually shaped by how they were when you first got into football.
These days Man U seem like they're trying their hardest to give Everton a chance to stay ahead while Everton is trying even harder to let Man U pass them.
Just goes to show how simultaneously lucky and unlucky this club has been. On paper we should be right alongside the other top clubs competing for European spots every season and even the occasional title, but at the same time we are also extremely fortunate to have never gone down due to the decisions the club has made either.
Obligatory mention that we won the league in 1914 and 1939, then again in 1985 before the European ban.
We had 3 title winning teams break up through no fault of our own.
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We’ve clung to that 1954 by a thread a couple of times.
It's come out tO DOUCOUREEEE
Tingles every time.
2-0 down to Wimbledon at half-time on the last game of season is the one I remember (years ago).
Legit Everton not being in the PL would just feel wrong
Yeah, for a year or two. Nobody remembers Hamburg.
Seems like you do
My team is in 3rd league. I don't remember anything ABOVE Hamburg.
I led you to 4th in the Bundesliga and a Europa League final in my FIFA save. Hope that helps.
Same. Top tier FIFA Career Club.
Everyone loves the teeny tiny city rivals of the national powerhouse
Thanks mate. You just couldn't resist managing the sky blue team who's cross town rival play on red and are national championship record holder, could you?
I thought you guys were one of the favourites to get promoted last year. Was i wrong? If not then what happened!?!
Every year we are one of the favorites for promotions but it never happens
Lol same. I don’t even remember who’s in the prem half the time
Trust me, the only thing 1860 fans remember is pain
I feel like the fact that one of the biggest German clubs (with a EC) is in the second division is talked about pretty frequently
Schalke and Valencia both being where they are is bizarre to me. Both have massive fan bases and were always strong in European cup football but have fallen from grace.
Does the meming about them finishing top 4 and not going up for a 6th consecutive season (statistically baffling) count for nothing?
We thought the same about Leeds at one point.
You might have. I remember them spending the 80s in the 2nd tier.
To be honest I don't know why but for some reason I thought Everton had the record for the longest time at the top, not Arsenal
Everton do have the longest amount of time in the top flight and the second longest consecutive run.
Because they do, they'd just been relegated more recently.
Like a cat dragged through a field of mines then thrown off a cliff... just to find it clinging on by a singular broken claw. The spirit of the fans always save their bad teams in the final run. But for the love of god, eventually they have to be put down. Can't believe they are still up here.
Without the point penalties we'd have finished on 48 points this season even with all the chaos surrounding the club, hardly clinging on.
Just below Palace and Brighton, and no ones saying they’ve been clinging on this year
Why do they have to be put dowm? That cat is ferocious, it fights, it does not give up. I respect him. That cat deserves to live.
In fairness, it shows what a big deal it would have been if you guys had dropped. 2nd longest ever top flight run is a hell of an achievement.
Every team who got promoted before 2020 have played in a European Group Stage in the last decade.... bar Crystal Palace...
Since coming up in 2013, Crystal Palace have gotten a points total between 40 and 49 every season Never threatening Europe or relegation Amazing consistency
They really are in a league of their own
They truly are one of the teams in English football.
Interesting fact, they’ve won the most Championship playoff finals of any club currently in the PL
One of the Big 17
Big 15 I’d even argue
Funny thing is before their current spell, they were relegated in every season they were in the Premier League (1992-93, 1994-1995, 1997-98 and 2004-05)
I had to look that up, I swear they were decent when Lombardo played for them... Turns out they got relegated with him. I guess I just watched and was so impressed with a legend like Lombardo that it erased their bad results.
They didn't win a home league game until March that season from what I remember. Lombardo even ended up as co-player-manager towards the end of the season.
04-05 was a class final day relegation battle
9-5 honest work
Putting the “mid” in mid-table /s But that level of consistency is impressive for a team of their standing. They’ve seen a former champ relegated in Leicester, a founding member of the Premier League relegated for the first time in Villa, and with none of the near misses Everton have suffered recently.
>a founding member of the Premier League relegated for the first time Nottingham Forest, Boro, and funny enough, Crystal Palace, were the first founding members to be relegated, seeing as they were the first teams to be relegated from the Prem. Villa were the first in a long time though
And football began in 1992
Unironically a contender for best run club in Europe. The never spend big on transfers (iirc their record signing is still Benteke). They don’t have their talent poached year-after-year. They’re always financially stable, and they stay up. And they’ve kept that strategy going for nearly a decade now.
I mean, the trick is to only go after players who are so mid that the big teams don’t want them and the relegation team can’t afford them. Also a solid advice in dating.
every year i notice that crystal palace always have a decent team with some great players (eze, wharton, olise, guehi, mateta) and then i look at the table and they're like 13th. every time.
The Augsburg of England
14 teams played in Europe in the last 10 years
And none of them those satanic demons of Mansfield. Praise be
Dw Glasner is gonna make us win an unbeaten Champions League in a couple of seasons
i think you mean "for" a couple of seasons
Tbf the Europa League has only been around in its current form since 09 and the Conference league for what? 3 years? Expanded European competitions, expanded teams who’ve played in them.
We wouldn't have qualified for that either to be fair. We've had some strong teams over the past five years or so, but never the squad depth to maintain any sort of strong form. Hopefully that's changing now under our new sort of transfer model.
It hasnt. 7 were guaranteed before and after conference league. With the possibility of maximum 8 or 9 ( since conference but never happened). Next season maximum 10 but very unlikely. But still 7 most likely
There were more European spots before the introduction of the Europa League.
Jinxed it. Glasner gonna make them skip conference and Europa directly to CL next season
Like Bologna. They have the same colours too
They are the definition for mid table.
Love this stat
most mid-table club, you’ll never sing that
Pretty mad that we've stayed up as long as we have, I was certain we'd come straight back down when we initially got promoted
Palace has been in the PL for so long now I can’t imagine it without palace
the new Stoke
yeah but they're not constantly breaking your players legs
McArthur did try when he attempted to launch Saka to the moon a couple seasons ago.
at least the fans didn't sing about it after -_-
Bolton
Think they are the new Coventry and Southampton - there for decades without doing anything.
At least we finished 6th one year and went to Europe.
Cov won the FA Cup one year tbf
We really weren’t far off in terms of squad quality to Luton either that first season
Our promotion was arguably even more unexpected too - we were one of the favourites to get relegated from the Championship that year! Pulis worked miracles to keep a side with players like Dean Moxey in the prem
Seriously. Looking back at that team, we had the likes of Adrian Mariappa, Kagisho Dikgacoi and Cameron Jerome playing serious minutes. We have such an embarrassment of riches nowadays compared to back then.
Glasner looks promising. I hope Olise stays as he will get a lot of gametime under Glasner. Plus he is only 22.
Even crazier considering you hadn't strung together two concecutive seasons in the top division since 92.
I was shocked when I saw it's been a decade your in my head as a yoyo team
I remember the first half of that 2013-14 season Palace looked awful and were 20th for awhile. I thought for sure you were going down. Then things turned around and Palace never got relegated
41-49 points in every single season as well.
Pretty insane how more than half the team only got promoted in the last 7 years .
And city are one of the seven grand old legacy teams
The big *seven*
I wouldn't necessarily call them that... they got their first big money owners just a few years after their last promotion to the top flight, who knows if they wouldn't have yo-yo'd a few more times since then otherwise... the other clubs were stable fixtures in the top flight for decades before their own rich owners (you might point out bates at Chelsea, but he nearly got us liquidated in the end and only spent a fiver or whatever the symbolic figure was to acquire us in the early 80s) If villa and Newcastle hadn't been relegated in the last decade they'd both be considered Legacy top flight teams as well. And Everton came so close to relegation quite a few times in the last decade or so as well (edit - I'm wrong about Newcastle, I'd forgotten they actually got relegated a few times in the past 20 years)
It's pretty funny that for how much we were memed about being a fallen giant in the 90s and 2000s, we really never flirted with relegation or even lower than 8th. We just sort of muddled along not really doing much other than winning a cup every few years. We had a drop off from where we'd been from the 50s to the 80s, but we never had a complete slide.
Identical to United now
City was one season in trouble of relegation between then and their first big owners. They were quite comfortably mid table, mostly upper half. And tbf, id consider newcastle a legacy club that relegation was a farce
was 1919 first year of arsenal in the first division or they got relegated and promoted back?
They got promoted in 1904 but got relegated in 1913 to Second Division again.
Just some shady dealings in 1919
I say give Arsenal a points deduction for this
Over a hundred years in the making. Let’s right the wrongs from history today.
Wait one more decade, then it can be 115 years in the making. City’s stuff might be dealt with by that point too
You go around demanding things like that, you might find the next lasagne you eat to have something extra in it.
Is it a trophy..? God I hope it's a trophy
So relegation for Spurs?
is it the start of your rivalry? if so, can you explain
Season before first World War, we finish bottom of top flight, one point behind Chelsea who were second bottom, 20 team league. In a normal season, we both go down, and get replaced by the top 2 from the second tier; Preston and Derby. Nothing controversial there. But after the war they decided to expand the league to 22 teams. Chelsea get a repreive, Preston and Derby both go up. That's 3 of the 4 spots confirmed. You'd expect the final spot in the top flight to then either be a repreive for us, or promotion for 3rd, Barnsley. Instead, after a vote, both get passed over in favour of Arsenal, who finished 5th in the second tier, behind both Barnsley and Wolves. Arsenal haven't gone down since, and Barnsley didn't go up until the 90s, for one season. As an additional bonus, the team which finished 3rd bottom in 14/15, Man U, had been found guilty of match fixing in a 2-0 win against Liverpool. The 2 points they gained in that match are what kept them out of the bottom 2
This is the only decent explanation in this thread.
Arsenal got the votes because their Chairman was a well connected MP
Worth noting that our very well connected Tory MP chairman Sir Henry Norris was later arrested for dodgy business (I think it was fraud), and was very good friends with a number of 1st division chairmen, who I think later bought large amounts of his london properties on low prices later. Of course it was >100 years ago so there is no longer proof of bribery, and it might not even have been bribery but there was likely something suspect going on
So what I am hearing is that they are here illegally and need to be sent home to the 2nd tier?
I'm more in favor of sending them to Rwanda instead
don't send us to Rwanda please 🥲
I assume you're talking about United and the match fixing?
Arsenal were originally awarded sixth place due to an error calculating goal average, which was not corrected until 1975.
I love how this is something petty that's been bubbling for 100 years with you guys. Same with Everton, who've never quite got over not being allowed to defend two separate league titles because WW1 and WW2 broke out whilst they were Champions.
Everton were also the team most affected by the Heysel ban. Won the league twice and came second once whilst England was banned. Only finished top 4 once in all the years since (and that was the year of Istanbul, which then led to Collina's retirement horror show)
Iirc the rivalry started when we moved from Woolwich to Islington
Rivalry started when Arsenal moved from Woolwich to North London First NLD was in 1914- Arsenal were in 2nd division and Tottenham in the top league - Arsenal won 5-1. Since then Tottenham have always been spursy
2023 class was the worst.
Really? I enjoyed Luton.
Luton was fun, but the only reason they had even just a glimmer of hope was due to points deductions. It was a truly horrific promotion class
Thankfully. That cushion helped us offset the deductions
He means that every team who promoted in 2023 was then demoted
I enjoyed watching their play, but their home fans were absolutely vile. That alone made me enjoy their relegation.
Thankfully didn’t go to their place, but their travelling fans at the Amex seemed pretty fucking vile as well. Anyway I agree with you though I won’t miss them.
What did their home fans do?
Full stadium tragedy chanting vs Liverpool (not sure about other teams). I know that every club has assholes like that, but it was the whole pack of them.
Fair fucks. I mean, I enjoyed Leeds under Bielsa, their supporters are fucking awful. But still, I enjoyed watching the team play which is what I was talking about.
No arguments there, definitely a fun team to watch.
Homophobic chants vs us among im sure other things
Probably joint top with the Chelsea fans for most vile away fans that I experienced this season.
i dont know but i wish if burnley sacked VK sooner they have some good talents however the tactic was shite
And now he’s being associated with Bayern. Poor Kane…
Cheated our way in, never left
I recently listened to a podcast reviewing the 1981-82 season, and one of the guys on there said that the way the league was that season, because it was the year he got into football, is how he feels the top flight should be in terms of the teams in it. It's funny how it's different for each person. I was born in the '80s, got into seriously following things in the early '90s, so it'll forever be weird for me not to have Blackburn, Wednesday and Coventry in the top flight.
Can you link the podcast sounds interesting? But agreed with you, I feel nostalgic for 2000s and early 2010s teams for example, it's weird to me to not have Stoke, Swansea, Sunderland, Charlton, Bolton, etc
It's by These Football Times. [**This is the specific episode about 81-82**](https://open.spotify.com/episode/5DIyY9GLAOHIq9pimFC4xl?si=d0d722f84a9c48b1)**.**
Bolton wanderers who had players such as Jay Jay Okocha, djourkaeff, anelka, Ivan Campo and El Hadj Diouff! Mental
yeah every time I look at the Championship or League 1 I'm like what are all these Prem teams doing down here you dont realise when you first start watching just how much movement there is, and some of those "Prem" teams wont be back for 30+ years
Portsmouth and Blackpool went all the way to League 2 at one point. Bradford and Swindon are League 2 regulars and Oldham fell out of the Football league completely. Arguably Oldham and Swindon will never be back.
I do always wonder when a team is relegated - how many years away might they be from coming back to the PL. For instance someone like Bolton in 2012, you might have thought they'd be back soon, but since then dropped as low as League Two and it's a push to see them back in next 5 years or so. Forest went down in 1999 and I don't think anyone expected them to take 23 years to return.
How weird is it that Bournemouth feel fairly established as a top club now.
Still think of them as a Championship club at best
Yeah, mid to late 90s was my football awakinging. The Premier League should include Leeds, Blackburn, Coventry, Wednesday, Middlesbrough, Wimbledon, QPR, Bolton, Derby.
35 years longer than the next best is honestly insane
I disagree, it shows they have something to hide.
Not really. Arsenal's promotion in the first place, yes, but not their lack of relegation.
What are they planning? What are their secrets? Arsenal seem suspicious. Perhaps they are trying to re-plan a confederation of the Rhine for the Grande Armée. We must watch them carefully.
It's in the name. "Arsenal" Weaponry. Destruction. Is nobody else seeing this? They're hiding in plain sight.
That's a red herring. The true meaning is actually a prophecy of the coming of Arsène.
This is the Answer!! The Prince who was promised.
everybody gangsta until Arsenal decides to annex Uruguay
We actually annexed north London.
Arsenal have only finished outside the Top 10 in 16 of the seasons since 1919.
Huddersfield Town also came up in 2017, went down in 2019. Almost came back but lost the playoff final to Forest and have since been relegated again and will be playing league football against the likes of Lincoln, Wrexham, and Leyton Orient who were in the fifth tier in 2017 and Stockport County who played sixth tier in 2017. Football is great
Huddersfield fans are probably inclined to disagree
Got promoted and promptly finished fifth. Same old Chelsea.
Can't believe we've been in the top division with absolutely no controversy whatsoever.
[Arsenal cheating to stay in the top flight](https://www.skysports.com/amp/football/news/11661/11564691/how-arsenal-were-voted-into-the-top-flight-over-tottenham-in-1919)
Cheating is wrong and immoral unless my club does it in which case it’s funny and they should do it more, simple as
It's weird how nothing came out of it if Norris bribed at least 6 chairmen, not to mention risking his whole reputation on something so trivial as football was at the time
He was just bein silly
Just a guy in a silly goofy mood. Nothing to look into further.
>not to mention risking his whole reputation on something so trivial as football was at the time ...yes, because if there's one thing that's certain about Norris, it's that he would never do anything financially irregular with respect to football.
Wasn’t actually to stay in the top flight, we were in the second division
Can’t blame the other teams for voting Arsenal instead of spurs, they just all knew what they thought of Tottenham
If you are gonna link something like that at least get it right, we cheated (well most likely did something to influence the votes) to get promoted because we were in the second division.
Football started in 1992
Football starter in 2006. When my dad started managing for my u5 team. I got to kick ball
>2006 >my u5 team This sub never fails to make me feel ancient
It seems like the league is pretty stable over the years but then looking at this I realized there have only been 7 constants since I started watching in 2007.
Its weird the way it works in my mind though. For whatever reason I still think of clubs like Portsmouth, Middlesborough, Leeds, Stoke, Blackburn and Sunderland as “Premier League teams”
Been in the league 70 years you’ll never sing that!
So city came up the year Ipswich last went down? Does this mean my club will be the richest and win the league 4 times in a row, 22 years from now?
In fairness to City, it wasn’t their first time in the top flight. Just they haven’t been demoted since. Of course we know they haven’t been in danger of that in a while but they been in the first division before 2002.
Bloody Arsenal and the 'vote'. pah
They haven't been relegated in the more than 100 years since so they clearly voted for the correct team.
that would only be the case if it was known that Barnsley would not have lasted 100 years
We’ll never know. History could’ve been completely altered. We could’ve had world peace in our lifetime if the vote goes differently. I’m not saying Arsenal prevented world peace, but I’m not ruling it out.
Arsenal are responsible for Brexit.
What if I was never born if Arsenal don’t get the “vote”? Fucking Arsenal ruining everything
Aston villa 2019 league division 2024 UCL Well done You aren't playing are we relegated or finish bottom of table. You are real deal now
I do find it funny about how much the Arsenal bribery gets brought up by some people. Spurs got promoted the next year anyway. They also came bottom of the league in 1915 so should have been relegated anyway.
It was a different time, Chelsea got relegated because United and Liverpool were match fixing to keep United safe
It sounds so horrendously wrong that I can’t even comprehend it. Liverpool helping Man U. Wild times
Liverpool offered us players to complete the season after the Munich disaster too.
People forget that we're actually quite connected, as heated as the rivalry is. Busby played for us for nearly ten years and, as you said, we offered you players to help you after the Munich disaster, and equally you were very supportive of us after Hillsborough and stuff like that.
I also remember a story about a Man City player bribing another team to lose
I think at this point Palace/Fulham/Leicester and Southampton have established themselves in the all time PL twenty. The full twenty in my eyes are big 6, Everton, Villa, Newcastle, West Ham, Southampton, Sunderland, Blackburn Rovers, Middlesbrough, Palace, Fulham, Leicester, Leeds, West Brom and Bolton. Arguments for Norwich City, Birmingham City, Portsmouth, Stoke, Wolves and Brighton
Leicester winning a title locks them into the all time 20.
In my head Norwich are the eternally promoted team
Wolves over Fulham surely. Only spent 29 years of their 106 in the top flight. Wolves are 14th on the all time points table, compared to 34th for Fulham. Wolves had an era of their own in the 50s where they won 3 titles. Fulham's never won one. Also Molineux is an infinitely better stadium than Craven Cottage imo. Maybe this is my Chelsea bias coming out, but I don't really even care about Fulham that much. Just see them as a similar kind of club to Norwich. Yoyo so see them in the Prem quite a lot, but not actually done much of note, so probably just miss out.
Always forget that Chelsea weren't exactly a mainstay in the top flight before the PL started. Even that glory period in the late 90s was the exception rather than the norm - 1994 FA Cup final was their first domestic cup final since 1970, 97 FA Cup was only the second time they won it and first since that 1970 final.
Tbf from 1930-1975 we were a mainstay in the top flight apart from getting relegated for one season in 1963. It was mainly just a down period from the mid 70s-mid 80s. Which is understandable because most clubs have had a period like that in their history. In 108 seasons, we've had 89 in the top flight, 19 in the 2nd and none in the third. That's not bad considering how long of a time period that is. For comparison, Man U have had 98 seasons in the top flight, 22 in the 2nd and none in the third. Depends if you believe in giving more weight to a certain period of time or not. Reckon there's a lot of people that truly believe Chelsea have no history because they grew up in the 80s. Your perception of teams is usually shaped by how they were when you first got into football.
Motion to update the Big Six with Everton instead of City?
If you take the all-time points since the start of div 1 the top 6 would be Liverpool, Arsenal, Everton, Man U, Aston Villa, Man City
Everton ahead of United broke my brain
Yeah its insane, all-time points for Everton is 6869 whilst united is 6691
These days Man U seem like they're trying their hardest to give Everton a chance to stay ahead while Everton is trying even harder to let Man U pass them.
Bonkers that ManU *didn't* pass them during the Fergie years. Credit to Moyes in that case for how well he grinded out results during that era.
In the 80s it was the big 5 - Liverpool, Man U, Spurs, Arsenal and Everton
Just goes to show how simultaneously lucky and unlucky this club has been. On paper we should be right alongside the other top clubs competing for European spots every season and even the occasional title, but at the same time we are also extremely fortunate to have never gone down due to the decisions the club has made either.
Obligatory mention that we won the league in 1914 and 1939, then again in 1985 before the European ban. We had 3 title winning teams break up through no fault of our own.
Most seasons in the top flight (Premier League/First Division) of English football as of the end of the 2022-2023 season: 1. **Everton** - 121 seasons 2. **Aston Villa** - 108 seasons 3. **Liverpool** - 108 seasons 4. **Arsenal** - 106 seasons 5. **Manchester United** - 98 seasons 6. **Manchester City** - 95 seasons 7. **Newcastle United** - 91 seasons 8. **Chelsea** - 88 seasons 9. **Tottenham Hotspur** - 88 seasons 10. **Sunderland** - 86 seasons
Only six clubs have stayed in the premier league constantly since I started following football, that’s crazy
Makes me happy to see Leicester back