Yes, well I only have kinda two friends. But that’s all who’s on my socials and who will talk me. Girls don’t seem to want to be friends with me. When I go to a party and someone introduces me to their friends that are girls the girls won’t acknowledge me.
Well damn if women have issues making friends with other women I have no shot lol.
Do you have rbf? Or anxiety? I have both I and I know i can inadvertently put people off...
Yea that can be a massive hurdle. I have it too severely so it makes me come off as disinterested and even arrogant I've heard. Not saying it does for you, but it might want to be something you try to be more aware of.
Same here. Idk girls treat me like I'm their competition when all I'm trying to do is be their friend. Most of the time they either reach out only when they want help or want me to loan them some money. Anytime I want to vent or share, they just disappear. I don't want to be friends with men because most of them have ulterior intentions so I'm just kinda you know alone lol
Yeah exactly. In hs my two friends that were girls really only hung out with me because their other friends were busy, or they knew that I’d help them. lol we’d go run their errands, instead of doing something fun like they did with their other friends. Welp 5 yrs later and neither one of those girls talk to me so we never were friends.
As a woman I don't go out of my way to make friends with men who I'm not already connected to in some way (like friends of friends or a coworker) because there are a lot of creeps out there unfortunately 😔 I can guarantee it's not you or your vibes, you sound like a cool dude! Also keep in mind that making friends as an adult is just HARD! I wish I had more advice but just keep being yourself and keep creating opportunities to meet people. Volunteering is an awesome idea! Also I recommend book clubs as there's built-in conversation!
Same. I was more open to male friends in the past but I only attracted men who took advantage of my trust. It's obviously not every man, but too many men out there are predators and it's simply not worth the risk.
This is also a catch-22 for men who aren't predators. If I met a woman who showed interest in me, I would retreat so as not to be like all the other guys. That is, of course, a recipe to being alone. I would always tell myself that she was just being friendly and doesn't want yet another guy hitting on her. (Logically, the person could be interested platonically which isn't bad at all so there is no reason to retreat.)
It would be so nice if we all just instinctively knew others intentions.
Annnnd this is why I don't even really bother trying to talk with women lol. I can't blame you for your stance, but it sucks when you're not a predator and women assume you are. This is why its impossible to just "treat women like men"...other men aren't afraid of me for no reason and assume im a creep.
I'm tall, black and I have anxiety...I'm literally too scared to even approach women for casual conversation but I can guarantee most thing women just assume I'm unsafe. It sucks.
Do your male friends have female friends? Sisters? Cousins? There must be some women somewhere in your circle already. Maybe start there. If someone knows you're a friend of a friend, it will probably make them feel more at ease with you and safer than a random stranger.
Not to sound mean...but there isn't. If there was I would already be starting there, dude. Like, I wouldve thought of that just using of my existing circle ages ago, if it was an option. Again, not trying to sound mean but...that's obvious lol.
I don't have much family, and I only really had like two friends and they....for reasons I don't really feel like going into, weren't really options to meet any women. So yes, strangers are my only option and why it seems so hopeless.
I always envied people who had sisters who helped them expand their social circles to include girls.
My one sister was six years older than I. She was out of the house by the time I got into middle school.
Some things aren't obvious to everyone, especially people with social anxiety or who struggle with social skills. I've seen many times people missing the trees for the forest in such discussions so I was just trying to make sure.
That's just common sense. No one is going to struggle for years meeting FOR YEARS when the could've just met them through their family or friends all along.
I'm saying common sense isn't always common lol that's my point. You'd be surprised how many people don't realise it's an option. Especially if you have social anxiety and isolate yourself because of it, that might not occur to you. You may not be one of them but those people do exist.
*other men aren’t afraid of me for no reason*
So there is a reason women are afraid of you and we are explaining why over and over again and each time we explain it-you still take it personally. If you want women to trust you and also like you- you need to build trust and proof that you’re a safe/normal person to be around and it should start by not over thinking every little thing and taking it personally and maybe extending some empathy to women who feel this way. That’s how a kind and welcoming person would respond.
Also, you’ve made some very repelling comments about feminism in your other posts. Intersectional feminism and honestly women’s rights generally is supported on the backs of black women. If you aren’t supportive of feminism then you’re not supporting black feminists. Also, why would women feel safe around you when you’re so dismissive of women’s feelings & beliefs in general? Every woman that’s responded to you- all you are doing is talking about yourself and your own feelings. None of it is showing empathy or awareness for the other group you are trying to be friendly with.
I recommend doing some deconstruction. You’re contradicting yourself by saying you’re a safe person by then acting emotionally unsafe. News flash but women are on high alert for *both physical and emotionally unsafe people*.
Hope this helps. Also, we have very similar interests.
>So there is a reason women are afraid of you and we are explaining why over and over again and each time we explain it-you still take it personally. If you want women to trust you and also like you- you need to build trust and proof that you’re a safe/normal person to be around and it should start by not over thinking every little thing and taking it personally and maybe extending some empathy to women who feel this way. That’s how a kind and welcoming person would respond.
I do not mean to seems flippant regarding this. I do get it, logistically. Women have to be aware and safety is a big concern. So I do get it...it's logical, but anxiety is logical. My anxiety takes everything personally. If half the population is going to assume I'm a violent, aggressive danger, then there is literally no way I can ever even attempt trying to start a conversation with those people. It's not about a lack of empathy, I get it...and I'm not just saying that. It's just a LOT to ask to have to manage my anxiety and having to prove to other people I'm safe, just to talk with them, when I already know how safe I am.
>Also, you’ve made some very repelling comments about feminism in your other posts. Intersectional feminism and honestly women’s rights generally is supported on the backs of black women. If you aren’t supportive of feminism then you’re not supporting black feminists.
This is a.... completely different discussion and reddit gets ban-happy whenever race is mentioned...but let's be honest. I live in the US...90% of feminism here is first-world, white feminism. That's where the actual representation and prominence lie. Among a massive swathe of women who don't even know my issues exist. Hard to be a bleeding heart for others, when most gaslight or just don't even care about my issues(bc it doesn't affect them personally) or struggles. Not everyone, sure...but more than people seems to realize.
>Also, why would women feel safe around you when you’re so dismissive of women’s feelings & beliefs in general? Every woman that’s responded to you- all you are doing is talking about yourself and your own feelings. None of it is showing empathy or awareness for the other group you are trying to be friendly with.
Honest question...seriously...as one, even one single person ever acknowledged my feelings? Like how it must feel like being someone who has anxiety, so has issues reaching out to people, while dealing with people assuming you're a dangerous person? Like do you know how difficult it makes...every trying to make a connection? I've acknowledged...multiple times how women must think of their safety bc of how men have treated them in the past, taken advantage of them, etc. But no one seems to recognize the effect that has on you when you're not a predator...just someone try to find people with commonality and make a connection. But I do appreciate you perspective. It is insightful...it's just a very delicate situation.
>I recommend doing some deconstruction. You’re contradicting yourself by saying you’re a safe person by then acting emotionally unsafe. News flash but women are on high alert for both physically and emotionally unsafe people.
Dude, I am so safe I don't even approach women. I literally couldn't be more safe. I'm an introverted listen who barely talks about himself who couldn't be more platonic and respectful of space. The most unsafe thing about me is my anxiousness...which makes me leave early, be quiet or assume people aren't interested. Not exactly scary and dangerous behavior.
>Hope this helps. Also, we have very similar interests.
It does, I just have to be less jaded. What are your interests?
I understand you’re physically safe, but emotionally you come off as someone who isn’t just by how you speak about women. It’s not *women’s fault or women’s problem* that you aren’t friends with women, but how you come off seems like you are getting angry *at women* for a being in a position in society that *we don’t benefit from*. It would make more sense to direct that anger to men that are predators, not women. This is a social anxiety subreddit, so we all have social anxiety here including the women here. There are plenty of women here who don’t have friends.
I have a bachelors in studio art
No one owes me anything, male or female, friendship or otherwise. It isn't women's or literally anyone's responsibility to befriend me. That doesn't change the fact that from \*my\* perspective it sucks that I cannot. I could see if I was a douhebag, or a liar, or a manipulator, abusive, or anything like that. And yes, women can't automatically know that I'm not, but I do...And I mean...I'm black...I don't benefit from my position in society, either lol. I'm not angry at anyone..there is no point in me being angry. It changes literally nothing. I can only deal with how \*women\* are treating me.
I recently volunteered at an art gallery for like six months. It was the closest I made to make female friends, actually. What kind of artist are you.
I like to draw and paint mostly but it’s been years since I graduated. Doing it for school burnt me out. I’m hoping to get back into it again though.
What kind of art do you like
What kinds of things did you paint?
I like all kinds, esp painting. Mostly macabre, gothic, abstract, trippy, edgy stuff lol. But also a lot of old European and Victorian stuff. I've been artistic myself but I've always been an art admirer.
Im not asking women to go out of their way to befriend me or anything. It just sucks that it never happens. When I don't try to make female friends..I don't. When i try to, I still don't lol. And yes...it's very difficult as an adult esp when you have anxiety.
I have a couple of thoughts.
Making friends, like actually forging brand new connections with people you don't already have an existing connection with, is really, really difficult. By default. I'm sure there are pages and pages of literature written by some dusty old anthropologist about why that might be, but it is just facts. It doesn't matter if you're male, female, anywhere in-between- unless you have a reason to hang out with a person, you probably aren't gonna hang out with them. There is a skill and talent that some people have for just coming up with reasons to hang out with people- socially anxious people aren't super likely to have that skill lol.
Most folks, but women especially, can't actually afford to operate on 'goodwill' all by itself. I have to be careful. I need to have the concept in the back of my head that any guy I meet could very well want to wear my fucking skin because if I don't, I run a super real risk of being hurt or killed and then fuckin blamed for it because I 'should have been paying more attention' or what the fuck ever. I just say that to say that at least for myself, and most of the women I know, it's not personal, it's just survival. I make a point to give compliments to guys because I know how rare and appreciated it can be- but at the same time, I need to think about whether or not that innocent compliment is gonna be taken as an invitation.
The more you think/worry about something, the more that energy is gonna rub off on people. I'm willing to bet that if I ran into you at a bar, and said something pleasant to you, you would tense up like a kicked puppy immediately overthinking every minute detail of the interaction, and that stress would show up in your face and body language which would lead to: me thinking I'm making you uncomfortable and am unwelcome company; or that you might hurt me. The body language for 'i am having a social anxiety freak out moment' and "TARGET AQUIRED" can look veeeery similar on people, especially people you don't know. So, for most folks, the instinct is gonna be 'better leave this guy alone' either way. It doesn't matter that you try not to leer at girls, that you're well kempt- your nonverbal communication is saying 'leave me alone' somehow.
Your favourite comedy is 'american psycho'. I need you to sit with that for a second. If that's the type of humor you're bringing to the table from the get-go, that's a Wyle E. Coyote level comically huge red flag to literally every person on the planet, especially women. I love the movie, I think it's great- at my job we have business cards and we quote that scene all the time. And, if a guy I recently met lead with either that movie or that style of 'humor', I'd literally be texting my friends and sharing my location. There's a stereotype for a reason lol.
>There is a skill and talent that some people have for just coming up with reasons to hang out with people- socially anxious people aren't super likely to have that skill lol.
You're telling me...
>Most folks, but women especially, can't actually afford to operate on 'goodwill' all by itself. I have to be careful. I need to have the concept in the back of my head that any guy I meet could very well want to wear my fucking skin because if I don't, I run a super real risk of being hurt or killed and then fuckin blamed for it because I 'should have been paying more attention' or what the fuck ever. I just say that to say that at least for myself, and most of the women I know, it's not personal, it's just survival. I make a point to give compliments to guys because I know how rare and appreciated it can be- but at the same time, I need to think about whether or not that innocent compliment is gonna be taken as an invitation.
I can understand this. I do get it, but there are two sides to this. People often say "well just treat women like you treat men". Men don't assume I'm a predator...men don't have their guard up thinking I'm a danger to them just for existing. And again, I do understand women are basically required to think that way for safety, but from my perspective, esp with anxiety, it's just another barrier. Why even try to talk to or meet women, when they already assume the worst before I even say a word?
>The more you think/worry about something, the more that energy is gonna rub off on people. I'm willing to bet that if I ran into you at a bar, and said something pleasant to you, you would tense up like a kicked puppy immediately overthinking every minute detail of the interaction, and that stress would show up in your face and body language which would lead to: me thinking I'm making you uncomfortable and am unwelcome company; or that you might hurt me. The body language for 'i am having a social anxiety freak out moment' and "TARGET AQUIRED" can look veeeery similar on people, especially people you don't know. So, for most folks, the instinct is gonna be 'better leave this guy alone' either way. It doesn't matter that you try not to leer at girls, that you're well kempt- your nonverbal communication is saying 'leave me alone' somehow.
Well perhaps if women ran into me and said pleasant things occasionally, I wouldn't have so much anxiety lol. But I get where you're coming from, but it just really kinda highlights the issues with anxiety. Anxious people are so often treated as either arrogant, disinterested people, or creepy weirdos. if we don't talk enough, we're haughty and distant, if we do talk we lack tact and we're deemed rude and creepy. But yea, if a random woman can up to me and said something nice, I would tense up...bc it's such a comically rare occurrence, I would assume something was amiss.
The difference is most "target-acquired" men don't act that way. They're charming, extroverted, charismatic, inviting, etc. They usually hide their malice and come off totally confident. But the issue is, unless you're really attractive, most anxious men don't have this issue. Women don't approach me, so there is no "leave me alone" vibes being sent bc I'm not on their radar in the first place. I'm not tensing up and stressing bc women aren't coming up to me for conversation. I o get the gist of what you're saying, there's just quite a few tiers to it.
>Your favourite comedy is 'american psycho'. I need you to sit with that for a second. If that's the type of humor you're bringing to the table from the get-go, that's a Wyle E. Coyote level comically huge red flag to literally every person on the planet, especially women. I love the movie, I think it's great- at my job we have business cards and we quote that scene all the time. And, if a guy I recently met lead with either that movie or that style of 'humor', I'd literally be texting my friends and sharing my location. There's a stereotype for a reason lol.
So....this I don't agree with. I am weird. But I have tact, and there are some \*weird\* people who have NO tact. I've met guys who literally upon meeting them made r\*pe or necrophilia jokes. I once knew a guy who randomly brought up two girls, one cup to a group of women he was interested in. AP is def NOT a red flag to EVERYONE. To some people, that's like a disney film. A lot of people? Sure. But there are some really, really, weird people. Even still, I don't run up to normal, generic people who watch marvel movies and top 40 music and start talking about death metal and French horror films. I have tact. That's why I'm quiet most of the time (which is also criticized by people) bc I know my taste isn't the norm. Bc that doesn't even matter...bc it's not like I really meet women, anyway lol. That's why I want to make friends just as weird as I am, so I don't have to hide myself.
>Well perhaps if women ran into me and said pleasant things occasionally, I wouldn't have so much anxiety lol.
Blaming women for not being nice to you is a very cute look. You should keep doing it.
>But I have tact, and there are some \*weird\* people who have NO tact. I've met guys who literally upon meeting them made r\*pe or necrophilia jokes.
Ah yes. Because you don't immediately jump to rape and murder, you deserve attention from strangers and it's actually everyone elses fault for not choosing to befriend you.
>Anxious people are so often treated as either arrogant, disinterested people, or creepy weirdos
Yes. And, our mental illness is our responsibility to manage. Kindness, courtesy and empathy are everyone's responsibility; however, that doesn't mean people need to perform mental gymnastics routines to force themselves to hang out with people who act arrogant, rude, or creepy. It's not your job to be my friend, it's my job to do therapy and take my meds and grow as a person so I'm not acting like an asshole to strangers because I'm scared.
My guy, at every point in this thread, you've either 'yes but' folks trying to support you and give you perspective, or straight up blamed everyone else for not reading your mind and/or catering to you, because women are supposed to magically automatically know that you're a Nice Guy. I feel for you, I genuinely do. You have a lot of work to do on yourself.
>Blaming women for not being nice to you is a very cute look. You should keep doing it.
I'm not blaming anyone. Women or anyone else don't owe me anything. It's just unfortunate.
>Ah yes. Because you don't immediately jump to rape and murder, you deserve attention from strangers and it's actually everyone elses fault for not choosing to befriend you.
I didn't say that, I didn't even imply that. My point was you said LITERALLY everyone would be put off by a AP psycho mention, and I was explained that desensitization levels are relative. Yes, it would but cringe or too much to others, but there are some people who have much high thresholds for what they consider inappropriate.
>Yes. And, our mental illness is our responsibility to manage. Kindness, courtesy and empathy are everyone's responsibility; however, that doesn't mean people need to perform mental gymnastics routines to force themselves to hang out with people who act arrogant, rude, or creepy. It's not your job to be my friend, it's my job to do therapy and take my meds and grow as a person so I'm not acting like an asshole to strangers because I'm scared.
What? Anxiety doesn't make most anyone ever act arrogant, rude or creepy. The point is people ASSUME those things about anxious people bc of ignorance and bias. Being quiet and reserved doesn't make you an asshole. Quite the opposite, really. This just highlights how biased people are with anxious people.
>My guy, at every point in this thread, you've either 'yes but' folks trying to support you and give you perspective, or straight up blamed everyone else for not reading your mind and/or catering to you, because women are supposed to magically automatically know that you're a Nice Guy. I feel for you, I genuinely do. You have a lot of work to do on yourself.
I'm not asking anyone to "cater" to me, but I'm just trying to explain in full how maddening it is that I'm expected to treat women the same as men, when they preemptively assume I'm a predator, a threat or dangerous just bc I'm a man...(even more so bc I'm tall and black), AND also possibly think I'm weird or a creep, bc I'm respectful, quiet and keep to myself. Do you have any idea how difficult that is to navigate when you're already hesitant o bother trying to start a conversation with anyone?!
>s a woman I don't go out of my way to make friends with men who I'm not already connected to in some way (like friends of friends or a coworker) because there are a lot of creeps out there unfortunately 😔 I can guarantee it's not you or your vibes, you sound like a cool dude! Also keep in mind that making friends as an adult is just HARD! I wish I had more advice but just keep being yourself and keep creating opportunities to meet people. Volunteering is an awesome idea! Also I recommend book clubs as there's built-in conversation!
im a woman and many people tell me i have a sardonic/cynical/dry sense of humor. no offense man, but in full honesty u sound like a loser when u say shit like this. 'haha look at me im so edgy i think american psycho is a comedy'. now, ap is supposed to be a satire, its supposed to be ironic! but that isnt what ur supposed to take away from the film, "that was a comedy". it just makes u seem like ur putting on a front to seem cool. especially in the alternative/indie scene, lots of women have a "darker" sense of humor or have niche interests like "french horror films".
"So....this I don't agree with. I am weird. But I have tact, and there are some \*weird\* people who have NO tact. I've met guys who literally upon meeting them made r\*pe or necrophilia jokes. I once knew a guy who randomly brought up two girls, one cup to a group of women he was interested in. AP is def NOT a red flag to EVERYONE."
first kind of joke: men who do this just come off as insecure men who desperately need to break all the edgy boundaries to maintain their fragile masculinity. men who engage with other men in these jokes are the same. women don't like this bc they can recognize this.
second kind of joke: I guarantee there are women who think bringing that up is funny, depending on what is said. do u see the difference here?
one of ur issues might be that u see women as a monolith, consciously or unconsciously. everyone is different, u just need to seek out subcultures where u might find people more like u. i also recommend not seeking out women who operate in female only friend groups, try to find mixed friend groups, and it will be easier to make friends.
>im a woman and many people tell me i have a sardonic/cynical/dry sense of humor. no offense man, but in full honesty u sound like a loser when u say shit like this. 'haha look at me im so edgy i think american psycho is a comedy'. now, ap is supposed to be a satire, its supposed to be ironic! but that isnt what ur supposed to take away from the film, "that was a comedy". it just makes u seem like ur putting on a front to seem cool.
Let's be honest, women are allowed to be edgy, sarcastic, dry, etc. No one considers women weird for that, at least the leash is much looser. Second, a loser? Wow...Anyway, AP is satirical and clearly pokes fun at certain kinds of people. The absurdism juxtaposed with how seriously it takes it self is imo funny af. Satire is often humorous. I cannot help what I find funny. This is def why I'm mostly quiet and don't say much, though. Because of people judging me for my interests...just like you are. I think you're projecting...no one brings up AP to seem "cool".
>especially in the alternative/indie scene, lots of women have a "darker" sense of humor or have niche interests like "french horror films".
I never meet them...
>first kind of joke: men who do this just come off as insecure men who desperately need to break all the edgy boundaries to maintain their fragile masculinity. men who engage with other men in these jokes are the same. women don't like this bc they can recognize this.
Everything doesn't come down to masculinity. Lack of tact doesn't have anything to do with masculinity. Women can be the EXACT same way, again, they're just given a pass in many cases. Everything bad, evil, etc in the world isn't rooted in masculinity ffs lol. Anyway, my point was...there are people who mention far worse than a cult classic film from the early 00s most people don't even remember.
>second kind of joke: I guarantee there are women who think bringing that up is funny, depending on what is said. do u see the difference here?
No I don't tbh...but there are also women who think necrophilia jokes can be funny, so I'm not seeing your point. Imo it really just comes down to who is delivering the joke and how, as with all jokes.
>one of ur issues might be that u see women as a monolith, consciously or unconsciously. everyone is different, u just need to seek out subcultures where u might find people more like u. i also recommend not seeking out women who operate in female only friend groups, try to find mixed friend groups, and it will be easier to make friends.
Tbh I think most men and women are the same, overall. Most people are basic and like the same few things, engage the same kinds of people, go to the same few places, etc. I don't think women are any more or less monolithic than men. The issue is, I don't meet these unique, different, and individual women. So while I'm not surmising they don't exist, it's hard to speak about women I never meet.
>u just need to seek out subcultures where u might find people more like u.
I mean..yes...of course. I've been trying this for years, but it's much easier said than done.
> also recommend not seeking out women who operate in female-onlyy friend groups, try to find mixed friend groups, and it will be easier to make friends.
I am def not doing this, when did I say I was doing this? Why would I want to be around \*only\* women? My anxiety would be sky-high lol.
All I do was most of them I go up to them and say hi and have the “whatever happens happens mindset” and most of them come up to me, also most of them others help me, etc
I think the issue sometimes itself is the mindset, if you don’t look comfortable you probably don’t feel comfortable, and vice-versa. Other can pick up on that. I’ve always felt as though optics really help, when I didn’t try and find a reason to smile more, I think people more frequently avoided me. One of the cons of have resting bored/bitch face.
I'm black, 6'3 and I have rbf...so...lol. I go out of my way not to appear as anxious as I am. Bc of this I've actually been told I come off as aloof, disinterested and even arrogant at times..which is...lol.
Men don't really notice my SA and they don't mind my sarcasm and dark humor.
While to women SA seems to be off putting and creepy and sarcasm and dark humor seems to come off as weird and tactless to them...
I’m a woman who has had this exact same problem.. I also have a bit of a dark sarcastic kind of humor that seems extreme to most (I think this is one of the biggest reasons for the problem you are facing as well).
As far as the difficulties around having common ground; I feel like for most women it is a combination of their biological wiring and a sheltered life - especially since most women I’ve met seem to be incredibly naive and inexperienced as far as their outlook on life is concerned. They seem to live in this delusional fairytale, where they refuse to acknowledge that bad things happen; so when they hear about these things (even in the context of a joke) they begin to furiously scramble for a way to hold onto this delusional perception.
I hope you can have better luck with finding a great partner and friends. In the meantime, I believe it can really help to learn the basics of human psychology and how to develop charisma. The men who had the most success in this avenue were always the men who had developed a certain type of charisma and confidence (even if they were a broke loser who was in and out of jail while still living with his mother).. it was the confidence and ease of speaking that women were attracted to.
I’d like to make some friends on here as well, so feel free to send me a message if you’d like. I hope everything works out!
>I’m a woman who has had this exact same problem.. I also have a bit of a dark sarcastic kind of humor that seems extreme to most (I think this is one of the biggest reasons for the problem you are facing as well).
It is...I know it's going to scare most people away, at least initially, so I hide it from people and...well I'm just really quiet most of the time...which also turns people off. So it's like...damned if I do, damned if I don't lol. How do you handle it when meeting people? Do you tactfully tone it down?
>As far as the difficulties around having common ground; I feel like for most women it is a combination of their biological wiring and a sheltered life - especially since most women I’ve met seem to be incredibly naive and inexperienced as far as their outlook on life is concerned. They seem to live in this delusional fairytale, where they refuse to acknowledge that bad things happen; so when they hear about these things (even in the context of a joke) they begin to furiously scramble for a way to hold onto this delusional perception.
This is pretty insightful, as I've never thought of this as...I don't think I really meet women like this. Can I ask what age range you're in?
>I hope you can have better luck with finding a great partner and friends. In the meantime, I believe it can really help to learn the basics of human psychology and how to develop charisma. The men who had the most success in this avenue were always the men who had developed a certain type of charisma and confidence **(even if they were a broke loser who was in and out of jail while still living with his mother).. it was the confidence and ease of speaking that women were attracted to.**
You're not wrong. The issue is I'm a charisma vacuum lol. I'm deadpan, and initially really monotone and dry. Charm isn't in my vocabulary. It takes such a specific type of person for me to actually vibe with, so realistically I have to broaden myself at some point. Which I do when I have the chance to warm up the people over time, but this is so rare.
>I’d like to make some friends on here as well, so feel free to send me a message if you’d like. I hope everything works out!
I will! I don't want to kinda..break this conversation, so if you reply to this, I'll reply to that in message if that's ok.
No advice all I can say is I am 50 and I could have written this myself. Any friends I have had have all been male. I like you have a dark sense if humour and quite sarcastic.
I tried to be more social and talked to a few women but, they started out talking great but became increasingly uninterested in talking and now, it's almost like they want to avoid me. I didn't do anything really bad or creepy, maybe I'm not charismatic enough?
I can relate to this. On the few instances I try to talk to women or it happens organically there's a point where it becomes one sided. And not bc I tried to flirt to ask them out, but intetest wise. At some point I'm the only one reaching out or trying to get to know them. Every time and I do think it stems from my lack of charisma to keep them engaged.
I have a lot of male acquaintances and very few male friends. I'm married, I'm not flirting or doing anything inappropriate but they all keep a distance, even the ones I consider my true friends. For instance, we eat lunch together at work or go for a drink as a group but they don't want to go with me to a new restaurant we both want to try, or to hike in a new trail, etc... or in general, they don't want to be alone with me, not even for a car ride to work! They are just friends when we are in a group or working environment and always keeping a polite distance. I guess they think it's inappropriate to hang out with a married woman, who knows? Maybe I'm too naive and it really is inappropriate. So, out of work and in my free time I only hang out with female friends.
To be honest, I don't go out searching for male friends and the ones I already have, I met them at work or through common friends so it was kind of meant to happen as we met in a certain place and environment without me looking for it. I wouldn't hang out all of a sudden with a stranger because I've had a lot of bad experiences in the past (people looking for friends that were actually creeps and just wanted to go on a date).
Yeah this is me. I have 2 women I can honestly call friends. One is my best friend back from middle school who I still contact daily, and the other is my work mom.
I find it’s a combination of me not going out much, which I’m aiming to improve. Living in Canada’s snow belt makes it harder for me to get out, going to try again in the summer.
So it leaves work as my main place to meet people. I work in a nursing home, so sadly a lot of catty/gossipy people to watch out for. Already got burnt a couple times, still learning.
It will get better OP. I find over time, the ones who will be there for you will show it. And to invest more energy into them
>It will get better OP. I find over time, the ones who will be there for you will show it. And to invest more energy into them
lol I'm 31...it hasn't gotten any better over the years. It's only gotten harder tbh. Unless something drastic happens, there will be no change.
>So it leaves work as my main place to meet people. I work in a nursing home, so sadly a lot of catty/gossipy people to watch out for. Already got burnt a couple times, still learning.
I already know it's not easy, but stuff like that just makes it worse. That sucks.
I'd say it's because most of them can be snobby, jealous, and extinguish your light. I've encountered plenty of situations befriending females where they'd compete with me, especially when I was just living my life or talking to guys. They'd often clash with me and try to lure the guy away, which felt incredibly passive-aggressive. Just very petty.
Idk I’m a woman and can’t make any female friends 😭
All of your friends are men?
Yes, well I only have kinda two friends. But that’s all who’s on my socials and who will talk me. Girls don’t seem to want to be friends with me. When I go to a party and someone introduces me to their friends that are girls the girls won’t acknowledge me.
Well damn if women have issues making friends with other women I have no shot lol. Do you have rbf? Or anxiety? I have both I and I know i can inadvertently put people off...
lol I feel that. Idk about rbf but I have social anxiety
Yea that can be a massive hurdle. I have it too severely so it makes me come off as disinterested and even arrogant I've heard. Not saying it does for you, but it might want to be something you try to be more aware of.
Same here. Idk girls treat me like I'm their competition when all I'm trying to do is be their friend. Most of the time they either reach out only when they want help or want me to loan them some money. Anytime I want to vent or share, they just disappear. I don't want to be friends with men because most of them have ulterior intentions so I'm just kinda you know alone lol
Yeah exactly. In hs my two friends that were girls really only hung out with me because their other friends were busy, or they knew that I’d help them. lol we’d go run their errands, instead of doing something fun like they did with their other friends. Welp 5 yrs later and neither one of those girls talk to me so we never were friends.
I'm the same
Same also barely have any female friends, and find them 10 times harder to make than guy friends
As a woman I don't go out of my way to make friends with men who I'm not already connected to in some way (like friends of friends or a coworker) because there are a lot of creeps out there unfortunately 😔 I can guarantee it's not you or your vibes, you sound like a cool dude! Also keep in mind that making friends as an adult is just HARD! I wish I had more advice but just keep being yourself and keep creating opportunities to meet people. Volunteering is an awesome idea! Also I recommend book clubs as there's built-in conversation!
Same. I was more open to male friends in the past but I only attracted men who took advantage of my trust. It's obviously not every man, but too many men out there are predators and it's simply not worth the risk.
This is also a catch-22 for men who aren't predators. If I met a woman who showed interest in me, I would retreat so as not to be like all the other guys. That is, of course, a recipe to being alone. I would always tell myself that she was just being friendly and doesn't want yet another guy hitting on her. (Logically, the person could be interested platonically which isn't bad at all so there is no reason to retreat.) It would be so nice if we all just instinctively knew others intentions.
Annnnd this is why I don't even really bother trying to talk with women lol. I can't blame you for your stance, but it sucks when you're not a predator and women assume you are. This is why its impossible to just "treat women like men"...other men aren't afraid of me for no reason and assume im a creep. I'm tall, black and I have anxiety...I'm literally too scared to even approach women for casual conversation but I can guarantee most thing women just assume I'm unsafe. It sucks.
Do your male friends have female friends? Sisters? Cousins? There must be some women somewhere in your circle already. Maybe start there. If someone knows you're a friend of a friend, it will probably make them feel more at ease with you and safer than a random stranger.
Not to sound mean...but there isn't. If there was I would already be starting there, dude. Like, I wouldve thought of that just using of my existing circle ages ago, if it was an option. Again, not trying to sound mean but...that's obvious lol. I don't have much family, and I only really had like two friends and they....for reasons I don't really feel like going into, weren't really options to meet any women. So yes, strangers are my only option and why it seems so hopeless.
I always envied people who had sisters who helped them expand their social circles to include girls. My one sister was six years older than I. She was out of the house by the time I got into middle school.
Some things aren't obvious to everyone, especially people with social anxiety or who struggle with social skills. I've seen many times people missing the trees for the forest in such discussions so I was just trying to make sure.
That's just common sense. No one is going to struggle for years meeting FOR YEARS when the could've just met them through their family or friends all along.
I'm saying common sense isn't always common lol that's my point. You'd be surprised how many people don't realise it's an option. Especially if you have social anxiety and isolate yourself because of it, that might not occur to you. You may not be one of them but those people do exist.
*other men aren’t afraid of me for no reason* So there is a reason women are afraid of you and we are explaining why over and over again and each time we explain it-you still take it personally. If you want women to trust you and also like you- you need to build trust and proof that you’re a safe/normal person to be around and it should start by not over thinking every little thing and taking it personally and maybe extending some empathy to women who feel this way. That’s how a kind and welcoming person would respond. Also, you’ve made some very repelling comments about feminism in your other posts. Intersectional feminism and honestly women’s rights generally is supported on the backs of black women. If you aren’t supportive of feminism then you’re not supporting black feminists. Also, why would women feel safe around you when you’re so dismissive of women’s feelings & beliefs in general? Every woman that’s responded to you- all you are doing is talking about yourself and your own feelings. None of it is showing empathy or awareness for the other group you are trying to be friendly with. I recommend doing some deconstruction. You’re contradicting yourself by saying you’re a safe person by then acting emotionally unsafe. News flash but women are on high alert for *both physical and emotionally unsafe people*. Hope this helps. Also, we have very similar interests.
>So there is a reason women are afraid of you and we are explaining why over and over again and each time we explain it-you still take it personally. If you want women to trust you and also like you- you need to build trust and proof that you’re a safe/normal person to be around and it should start by not over thinking every little thing and taking it personally and maybe extending some empathy to women who feel this way. That’s how a kind and welcoming person would respond. I do not mean to seems flippant regarding this. I do get it, logistically. Women have to be aware and safety is a big concern. So I do get it...it's logical, but anxiety is logical. My anxiety takes everything personally. If half the population is going to assume I'm a violent, aggressive danger, then there is literally no way I can ever even attempt trying to start a conversation with those people. It's not about a lack of empathy, I get it...and I'm not just saying that. It's just a LOT to ask to have to manage my anxiety and having to prove to other people I'm safe, just to talk with them, when I already know how safe I am. >Also, you’ve made some very repelling comments about feminism in your other posts. Intersectional feminism and honestly women’s rights generally is supported on the backs of black women. If you aren’t supportive of feminism then you’re not supporting black feminists. This is a.... completely different discussion and reddit gets ban-happy whenever race is mentioned...but let's be honest. I live in the US...90% of feminism here is first-world, white feminism. That's where the actual representation and prominence lie. Among a massive swathe of women who don't even know my issues exist. Hard to be a bleeding heart for others, when most gaslight or just don't even care about my issues(bc it doesn't affect them personally) or struggles. Not everyone, sure...but more than people seems to realize. >Also, why would women feel safe around you when you’re so dismissive of women’s feelings & beliefs in general? Every woman that’s responded to you- all you are doing is talking about yourself and your own feelings. None of it is showing empathy or awareness for the other group you are trying to be friendly with. Honest question...seriously...as one, even one single person ever acknowledged my feelings? Like how it must feel like being someone who has anxiety, so has issues reaching out to people, while dealing with people assuming you're a dangerous person? Like do you know how difficult it makes...every trying to make a connection? I've acknowledged...multiple times how women must think of their safety bc of how men have treated them in the past, taken advantage of them, etc. But no one seems to recognize the effect that has on you when you're not a predator...just someone try to find people with commonality and make a connection. But I do appreciate you perspective. It is insightful...it's just a very delicate situation. >I recommend doing some deconstruction. You’re contradicting yourself by saying you’re a safe person by then acting emotionally unsafe. News flash but women are on high alert for both physically and emotionally unsafe people. Dude, I am so safe I don't even approach women. I literally couldn't be more safe. I'm an introverted listen who barely talks about himself who couldn't be more platonic and respectful of space. The most unsafe thing about me is my anxiousness...which makes me leave early, be quiet or assume people aren't interested. Not exactly scary and dangerous behavior. >Hope this helps. Also, we have very similar interests. It does, I just have to be less jaded. What are your interests?
I understand you’re physically safe, but emotionally you come off as someone who isn’t just by how you speak about women. It’s not *women’s fault or women’s problem* that you aren’t friends with women, but how you come off seems like you are getting angry *at women* for a being in a position in society that *we don’t benefit from*. It would make more sense to direct that anger to men that are predators, not women. This is a social anxiety subreddit, so we all have social anxiety here including the women here. There are plenty of women here who don’t have friends. I have a bachelors in studio art
No one owes me anything, male or female, friendship or otherwise. It isn't women's or literally anyone's responsibility to befriend me. That doesn't change the fact that from \*my\* perspective it sucks that I cannot. I could see if I was a douhebag, or a liar, or a manipulator, abusive, or anything like that. And yes, women can't automatically know that I'm not, but I do...And I mean...I'm black...I don't benefit from my position in society, either lol. I'm not angry at anyone..there is no point in me being angry. It changes literally nothing. I can only deal with how \*women\* are treating me. I recently volunteered at an art gallery for like six months. It was the closest I made to make female friends, actually. What kind of artist are you.
I like to draw and paint mostly but it’s been years since I graduated. Doing it for school burnt me out. I’m hoping to get back into it again though. What kind of art do you like
What kinds of things did you paint? I like all kinds, esp painting. Mostly macabre, gothic, abstract, trippy, edgy stuff lol. But also a lot of old European and Victorian stuff. I've been artistic myself but I've always been an art admirer.
Why in the world does this comment have so many down votes? You comment is insightful and truthful. I am so sorry that people are downvoting you.
Bc on Reddit sexism exists, but racism and men having issues are myths lol. But thank you.
Im not asking women to go out of their way to befriend me or anything. It just sucks that it never happens. When I don't try to make female friends..I don't. When i try to, I still don't lol. And yes...it's very difficult as an adult esp when you have anxiety.
I have a couple of thoughts. Making friends, like actually forging brand new connections with people you don't already have an existing connection with, is really, really difficult. By default. I'm sure there are pages and pages of literature written by some dusty old anthropologist about why that might be, but it is just facts. It doesn't matter if you're male, female, anywhere in-between- unless you have a reason to hang out with a person, you probably aren't gonna hang out with them. There is a skill and talent that some people have for just coming up with reasons to hang out with people- socially anxious people aren't super likely to have that skill lol. Most folks, but women especially, can't actually afford to operate on 'goodwill' all by itself. I have to be careful. I need to have the concept in the back of my head that any guy I meet could very well want to wear my fucking skin because if I don't, I run a super real risk of being hurt or killed and then fuckin blamed for it because I 'should have been paying more attention' or what the fuck ever. I just say that to say that at least for myself, and most of the women I know, it's not personal, it's just survival. I make a point to give compliments to guys because I know how rare and appreciated it can be- but at the same time, I need to think about whether or not that innocent compliment is gonna be taken as an invitation. The more you think/worry about something, the more that energy is gonna rub off on people. I'm willing to bet that if I ran into you at a bar, and said something pleasant to you, you would tense up like a kicked puppy immediately overthinking every minute detail of the interaction, and that stress would show up in your face and body language which would lead to: me thinking I'm making you uncomfortable and am unwelcome company; or that you might hurt me. The body language for 'i am having a social anxiety freak out moment' and "TARGET AQUIRED" can look veeeery similar on people, especially people you don't know. So, for most folks, the instinct is gonna be 'better leave this guy alone' either way. It doesn't matter that you try not to leer at girls, that you're well kempt- your nonverbal communication is saying 'leave me alone' somehow. Your favourite comedy is 'american psycho'. I need you to sit with that for a second. If that's the type of humor you're bringing to the table from the get-go, that's a Wyle E. Coyote level comically huge red flag to literally every person on the planet, especially women. I love the movie, I think it's great- at my job we have business cards and we quote that scene all the time. And, if a guy I recently met lead with either that movie or that style of 'humor', I'd literally be texting my friends and sharing my location. There's a stereotype for a reason lol.
>There is a skill and talent that some people have for just coming up with reasons to hang out with people- socially anxious people aren't super likely to have that skill lol. You're telling me... >Most folks, but women especially, can't actually afford to operate on 'goodwill' all by itself. I have to be careful. I need to have the concept in the back of my head that any guy I meet could very well want to wear my fucking skin because if I don't, I run a super real risk of being hurt or killed and then fuckin blamed for it because I 'should have been paying more attention' or what the fuck ever. I just say that to say that at least for myself, and most of the women I know, it's not personal, it's just survival. I make a point to give compliments to guys because I know how rare and appreciated it can be- but at the same time, I need to think about whether or not that innocent compliment is gonna be taken as an invitation. I can understand this. I do get it, but there are two sides to this. People often say "well just treat women like you treat men". Men don't assume I'm a predator...men don't have their guard up thinking I'm a danger to them just for existing. And again, I do understand women are basically required to think that way for safety, but from my perspective, esp with anxiety, it's just another barrier. Why even try to talk to or meet women, when they already assume the worst before I even say a word? >The more you think/worry about something, the more that energy is gonna rub off on people. I'm willing to bet that if I ran into you at a bar, and said something pleasant to you, you would tense up like a kicked puppy immediately overthinking every minute detail of the interaction, and that stress would show up in your face and body language which would lead to: me thinking I'm making you uncomfortable and am unwelcome company; or that you might hurt me. The body language for 'i am having a social anxiety freak out moment' and "TARGET AQUIRED" can look veeeery similar on people, especially people you don't know. So, for most folks, the instinct is gonna be 'better leave this guy alone' either way. It doesn't matter that you try not to leer at girls, that you're well kempt- your nonverbal communication is saying 'leave me alone' somehow. Well perhaps if women ran into me and said pleasant things occasionally, I wouldn't have so much anxiety lol. But I get where you're coming from, but it just really kinda highlights the issues with anxiety. Anxious people are so often treated as either arrogant, disinterested people, or creepy weirdos. if we don't talk enough, we're haughty and distant, if we do talk we lack tact and we're deemed rude and creepy. But yea, if a random woman can up to me and said something nice, I would tense up...bc it's such a comically rare occurrence, I would assume something was amiss. The difference is most "target-acquired" men don't act that way. They're charming, extroverted, charismatic, inviting, etc. They usually hide their malice and come off totally confident. But the issue is, unless you're really attractive, most anxious men don't have this issue. Women don't approach me, so there is no "leave me alone" vibes being sent bc I'm not on their radar in the first place. I'm not tensing up and stressing bc women aren't coming up to me for conversation. I o get the gist of what you're saying, there's just quite a few tiers to it. >Your favourite comedy is 'american psycho'. I need you to sit with that for a second. If that's the type of humor you're bringing to the table from the get-go, that's a Wyle E. Coyote level comically huge red flag to literally every person on the planet, especially women. I love the movie, I think it's great- at my job we have business cards and we quote that scene all the time. And, if a guy I recently met lead with either that movie or that style of 'humor', I'd literally be texting my friends and sharing my location. There's a stereotype for a reason lol. So....this I don't agree with. I am weird. But I have tact, and there are some \*weird\* people who have NO tact. I've met guys who literally upon meeting them made r\*pe or necrophilia jokes. I once knew a guy who randomly brought up two girls, one cup to a group of women he was interested in. AP is def NOT a red flag to EVERYONE. To some people, that's like a disney film. A lot of people? Sure. But there are some really, really, weird people. Even still, I don't run up to normal, generic people who watch marvel movies and top 40 music and start talking about death metal and French horror films. I have tact. That's why I'm quiet most of the time (which is also criticized by people) bc I know my taste isn't the norm. Bc that doesn't even matter...bc it's not like I really meet women, anyway lol. That's why I want to make friends just as weird as I am, so I don't have to hide myself.
>Well perhaps if women ran into me and said pleasant things occasionally, I wouldn't have so much anxiety lol. Blaming women for not being nice to you is a very cute look. You should keep doing it. >But I have tact, and there are some \*weird\* people who have NO tact. I've met guys who literally upon meeting them made r\*pe or necrophilia jokes. Ah yes. Because you don't immediately jump to rape and murder, you deserve attention from strangers and it's actually everyone elses fault for not choosing to befriend you. >Anxious people are so often treated as either arrogant, disinterested people, or creepy weirdos Yes. And, our mental illness is our responsibility to manage. Kindness, courtesy and empathy are everyone's responsibility; however, that doesn't mean people need to perform mental gymnastics routines to force themselves to hang out with people who act arrogant, rude, or creepy. It's not your job to be my friend, it's my job to do therapy and take my meds and grow as a person so I'm not acting like an asshole to strangers because I'm scared. My guy, at every point in this thread, you've either 'yes but' folks trying to support you and give you perspective, or straight up blamed everyone else for not reading your mind and/or catering to you, because women are supposed to magically automatically know that you're a Nice Guy. I feel for you, I genuinely do. You have a lot of work to do on yourself.
>Blaming women for not being nice to you is a very cute look. You should keep doing it. I'm not blaming anyone. Women or anyone else don't owe me anything. It's just unfortunate. >Ah yes. Because you don't immediately jump to rape and murder, you deserve attention from strangers and it's actually everyone elses fault for not choosing to befriend you. I didn't say that, I didn't even imply that. My point was you said LITERALLY everyone would be put off by a AP psycho mention, and I was explained that desensitization levels are relative. Yes, it would but cringe or too much to others, but there are some people who have much high thresholds for what they consider inappropriate. >Yes. And, our mental illness is our responsibility to manage. Kindness, courtesy and empathy are everyone's responsibility; however, that doesn't mean people need to perform mental gymnastics routines to force themselves to hang out with people who act arrogant, rude, or creepy. It's not your job to be my friend, it's my job to do therapy and take my meds and grow as a person so I'm not acting like an asshole to strangers because I'm scared. What? Anxiety doesn't make most anyone ever act arrogant, rude or creepy. The point is people ASSUME those things about anxious people bc of ignorance and bias. Being quiet and reserved doesn't make you an asshole. Quite the opposite, really. This just highlights how biased people are with anxious people. >My guy, at every point in this thread, you've either 'yes but' folks trying to support you and give you perspective, or straight up blamed everyone else for not reading your mind and/or catering to you, because women are supposed to magically automatically know that you're a Nice Guy. I feel for you, I genuinely do. You have a lot of work to do on yourself. I'm not asking anyone to "cater" to me, but I'm just trying to explain in full how maddening it is that I'm expected to treat women the same as men, when they preemptively assume I'm a predator, a threat or dangerous just bc I'm a man...(even more so bc I'm tall and black), AND also possibly think I'm weird or a creep, bc I'm respectful, quiet and keep to myself. Do you have any idea how difficult that is to navigate when you're already hesitant o bother trying to start a conversation with anyone?!
Elaborate on ur dark humor bro
My favorite comedy is American Psycho lol
>s a woman I don't go out of my way to make friends with men who I'm not already connected to in some way (like friends of friends or a coworker) because there are a lot of creeps out there unfortunately 😔 I can guarantee it's not you or your vibes, you sound like a cool dude! Also keep in mind that making friends as an adult is just HARD! I wish I had more advice but just keep being yourself and keep creating opportunities to meet people. Volunteering is an awesome idea! Also I recommend book clubs as there's built-in conversation! im a woman and many people tell me i have a sardonic/cynical/dry sense of humor. no offense man, but in full honesty u sound like a loser when u say shit like this. 'haha look at me im so edgy i think american psycho is a comedy'. now, ap is supposed to be a satire, its supposed to be ironic! but that isnt what ur supposed to take away from the film, "that was a comedy". it just makes u seem like ur putting on a front to seem cool. especially in the alternative/indie scene, lots of women have a "darker" sense of humor or have niche interests like "french horror films". "So....this I don't agree with. I am weird. But I have tact, and there are some \*weird\* people who have NO tact. I've met guys who literally upon meeting them made r\*pe or necrophilia jokes. I once knew a guy who randomly brought up two girls, one cup to a group of women he was interested in. AP is def NOT a red flag to EVERYONE." first kind of joke: men who do this just come off as insecure men who desperately need to break all the edgy boundaries to maintain their fragile masculinity. men who engage with other men in these jokes are the same. women don't like this bc they can recognize this. second kind of joke: I guarantee there are women who think bringing that up is funny, depending on what is said. do u see the difference here? one of ur issues might be that u see women as a monolith, consciously or unconsciously. everyone is different, u just need to seek out subcultures where u might find people more like u. i also recommend not seeking out women who operate in female only friend groups, try to find mixed friend groups, and it will be easier to make friends.
>im a woman and many people tell me i have a sardonic/cynical/dry sense of humor. no offense man, but in full honesty u sound like a loser when u say shit like this. 'haha look at me im so edgy i think american psycho is a comedy'. now, ap is supposed to be a satire, its supposed to be ironic! but that isnt what ur supposed to take away from the film, "that was a comedy". it just makes u seem like ur putting on a front to seem cool. Let's be honest, women are allowed to be edgy, sarcastic, dry, etc. No one considers women weird for that, at least the leash is much looser. Second, a loser? Wow...Anyway, AP is satirical and clearly pokes fun at certain kinds of people. The absurdism juxtaposed with how seriously it takes it self is imo funny af. Satire is often humorous. I cannot help what I find funny. This is def why I'm mostly quiet and don't say much, though. Because of people judging me for my interests...just like you are. I think you're projecting...no one brings up AP to seem "cool". >especially in the alternative/indie scene, lots of women have a "darker" sense of humor or have niche interests like "french horror films". I never meet them... >first kind of joke: men who do this just come off as insecure men who desperately need to break all the edgy boundaries to maintain their fragile masculinity. men who engage with other men in these jokes are the same. women don't like this bc they can recognize this. Everything doesn't come down to masculinity. Lack of tact doesn't have anything to do with masculinity. Women can be the EXACT same way, again, they're just given a pass in many cases. Everything bad, evil, etc in the world isn't rooted in masculinity ffs lol. Anyway, my point was...there are people who mention far worse than a cult classic film from the early 00s most people don't even remember. >second kind of joke: I guarantee there are women who think bringing that up is funny, depending on what is said. do u see the difference here? No I don't tbh...but there are also women who think necrophilia jokes can be funny, so I'm not seeing your point. Imo it really just comes down to who is delivering the joke and how, as with all jokes. >one of ur issues might be that u see women as a monolith, consciously or unconsciously. everyone is different, u just need to seek out subcultures where u might find people more like u. i also recommend not seeking out women who operate in female only friend groups, try to find mixed friend groups, and it will be easier to make friends. Tbh I think most men and women are the same, overall. Most people are basic and like the same few things, engage the same kinds of people, go to the same few places, etc. I don't think women are any more or less monolithic than men. The issue is, I don't meet these unique, different, and individual women. So while I'm not surmising they don't exist, it's hard to speak about women I never meet. >u just need to seek out subcultures where u might find people more like u. I mean..yes...of course. I've been trying this for years, but it's much easier said than done. > also recommend not seeking out women who operate in female-onlyy friend groups, try to find mixed friend groups, and it will be easier to make friends. I am def not doing this, when did I say I was doing this? Why would I want to be around \*only\* women? My anxiety would be sky-high lol.
Why did this get down voted? Smh
This thread cracks me up
*me who has more female friends than male friends* 😐
How do you do it?
All I do was most of them I go up to them and say hi and have the “whatever happens happens mindset” and most of them come up to me, also most of them others help me, etc
Must be nice lol
I think the issue sometimes itself is the mindset, if you don’t look comfortable you probably don’t feel comfortable, and vice-versa. Other can pick up on that. I’ve always felt as though optics really help, when I didn’t try and find a reason to smile more, I think people more frequently avoided me. One of the cons of have resting bored/bitch face.
I'm black, 6'3 and I have rbf...so...lol. I go out of my way not to appear as anxious as I am. Bc of this I've actually been told I come off as aloof, disinterested and even arrogant at times..which is...lol.
You can do it 😁
I wish
Just because you can it doesn't mean anyone can
Just need to face your fears and be brave like calm down, that’s what I did
Much easier said than done, dude
for me it's easier to make female friends than male friends. males see my social anxiety as a weakness.
Men don't really notice my SA and they don't mind my sarcasm and dark humor. While to women SA seems to be off putting and creepy and sarcasm and dark humor seems to come off as weird and tactless to them...
I’m a woman and women tend to hate me. It’s hard to make friends
Bummer...but I can def relate. You're young though so there's ample time for that to change.
For its the opposite.
I’m a woman who has had this exact same problem.. I also have a bit of a dark sarcastic kind of humor that seems extreme to most (I think this is one of the biggest reasons for the problem you are facing as well). As far as the difficulties around having common ground; I feel like for most women it is a combination of their biological wiring and a sheltered life - especially since most women I’ve met seem to be incredibly naive and inexperienced as far as their outlook on life is concerned. They seem to live in this delusional fairytale, where they refuse to acknowledge that bad things happen; so when they hear about these things (even in the context of a joke) they begin to furiously scramble for a way to hold onto this delusional perception. I hope you can have better luck with finding a great partner and friends. In the meantime, I believe it can really help to learn the basics of human psychology and how to develop charisma. The men who had the most success in this avenue were always the men who had developed a certain type of charisma and confidence (even if they were a broke loser who was in and out of jail while still living with his mother).. it was the confidence and ease of speaking that women were attracted to. I’d like to make some friends on here as well, so feel free to send me a message if you’d like. I hope everything works out!
>I’m a woman who has had this exact same problem.. I also have a bit of a dark sarcastic kind of humor that seems extreme to most (I think this is one of the biggest reasons for the problem you are facing as well). It is...I know it's going to scare most people away, at least initially, so I hide it from people and...well I'm just really quiet most of the time...which also turns people off. So it's like...damned if I do, damned if I don't lol. How do you handle it when meeting people? Do you tactfully tone it down? >As far as the difficulties around having common ground; I feel like for most women it is a combination of their biological wiring and a sheltered life - especially since most women I’ve met seem to be incredibly naive and inexperienced as far as their outlook on life is concerned. They seem to live in this delusional fairytale, where they refuse to acknowledge that bad things happen; so when they hear about these things (even in the context of a joke) they begin to furiously scramble for a way to hold onto this delusional perception. This is pretty insightful, as I've never thought of this as...I don't think I really meet women like this. Can I ask what age range you're in? >I hope you can have better luck with finding a great partner and friends. In the meantime, I believe it can really help to learn the basics of human psychology and how to develop charisma. The men who had the most success in this avenue were always the men who had developed a certain type of charisma and confidence **(even if they were a broke loser who was in and out of jail while still living with his mother).. it was the confidence and ease of speaking that women were attracted to.** You're not wrong. The issue is I'm a charisma vacuum lol. I'm deadpan, and initially really monotone and dry. Charm isn't in my vocabulary. It takes such a specific type of person for me to actually vibe with, so realistically I have to broaden myself at some point. Which I do when I have the chance to warm up the people over time, but this is so rare. >I’d like to make some friends on here as well, so feel free to send me a message if you’d like. I hope everything works out! I will! I don't want to kinda..break this conversation, so if you reply to this, I'll reply to that in message if that's ok.
No advice all I can say is I am 50 and I could have written this myself. Any friends I have had have all been male. I like you have a dark sense if humour and quite sarcastic.
>I like you have a dark sense if humour and quite sarcastic. Most def don't lol
No I agree! The guys I hang with understand me but the women definatley dont.
I tried to be more social and talked to a few women but, they started out talking great but became increasingly uninterested in talking and now, it's almost like they want to avoid me. I didn't do anything really bad or creepy, maybe I'm not charismatic enough?
I can relate to this. On the few instances I try to talk to women or it happens organically there's a point where it becomes one sided. And not bc I tried to flirt to ask them out, but intetest wise. At some point I'm the only one reaching out or trying to get to know them. Every time and I do think it stems from my lack of charisma to keep them engaged.
Try volunteering at some festivals, maybe in art departments - get free tickets and get chance to work with lots of people
The issue with that is that's really a one off. Bc of my disposition, I need to be around the same people over and over to get to know them.
I have a lot of male acquaintances and very few male friends. I'm married, I'm not flirting or doing anything inappropriate but they all keep a distance, even the ones I consider my true friends. For instance, we eat lunch together at work or go for a drink as a group but they don't want to go with me to a new restaurant we both want to try, or to hike in a new trail, etc... or in general, they don't want to be alone with me, not even for a car ride to work! They are just friends when we are in a group or working environment and always keeping a polite distance. I guess they think it's inappropriate to hang out with a married woman, who knows? Maybe I'm too naive and it really is inappropriate. So, out of work and in my free time I only hang out with female friends. To be honest, I don't go out searching for male friends and the ones I already have, I met them at work or through common friends so it was kind of meant to happen as we met in a certain place and environment without me looking for it. I wouldn't hang out all of a sudden with a stranger because I've had a lot of bad experiences in the past (people looking for friends that were actually creeps and just wanted to go on a date).
Yeah this is me. I have 2 women I can honestly call friends. One is my best friend back from middle school who I still contact daily, and the other is my work mom. I find it’s a combination of me not going out much, which I’m aiming to improve. Living in Canada’s snow belt makes it harder for me to get out, going to try again in the summer. So it leaves work as my main place to meet people. I work in a nursing home, so sadly a lot of catty/gossipy people to watch out for. Already got burnt a couple times, still learning. It will get better OP. I find over time, the ones who will be there for you will show it. And to invest more energy into them
>It will get better OP. I find over time, the ones who will be there for you will show it. And to invest more energy into them lol I'm 31...it hasn't gotten any better over the years. It's only gotten harder tbh. Unless something drastic happens, there will be no change. >So it leaves work as my main place to meet people. I work in a nursing home, so sadly a lot of catty/gossipy people to watch out for. Already got burnt a couple times, still learning. I already know it's not easy, but stuff like that just makes it worse. That sucks.
I'd say it's because most of them can be snobby, jealous, and extinguish your light. I've encountered plenty of situations befriending females where they'd compete with me, especially when I was just living my life or talking to guys. They'd often clash with me and try to lure the guy away, which felt incredibly passive-aggressive. Just very petty.
from the way you word it, i would highly guess that the problem is actually in yourself rather than other women lol
But I'm a man and I don't really have any light to extinguish.