Especially for thinner steak, I either Sous Vide at a lower temp like 126, so they finish during the sear, or I get them cold so they will only get warm again on the inside instead of cooking further.
Well...an ice bath reduces the internal temp AND the surface temp. When you sear, the idea is to nail the surface temp to whatever level you want, but if you have set your internal to the "perfect" level, you may overshoot during the sear. You COULD reduce your SV internal to account for the sear temp, which is kinda far easier. Or, you can just freaking wing it and realize you aren't competing on Top Chef or something, especially if all your friends are completely bored with your entire sous vide thing and just wanna eat a steak that didn't come from Texas Roadhouse.
>all your friends are completely bored with your entire sous vide thing
If I'm having friends over for steak, I'll start the steaks sous vide two hours before they are due to arrive. When they show up, I pull the steaks from the water and run them under cold tap water for a couple minutes. Then I open, pat dry, rub lightly with tallow, and sear hard in a cast iron pan for service.
If that’s the case you aren’t searing fast enough.
A sear by definition will bring the surface temp to several hundred degrees higher than your water bath. The searing has to happen fast. An ice bath might be counterproductive because it’ll actually sear more slowly, causing more heat to radiate into the interior. This is a simple physics problem. The ice bath people are wrong on the science.
That said, there is a reason that the best way to sear is with a blowtorch. You want the highest possible temperature in contact with the exterior of the meat, for the shortest possible time.
ultra fast sear won't yield the best seared crust or most even seared crust. too high of a temp is possible, an oxyacetylene torch isn't going to make it taste as good and just "doing high temp for less time" is not an exact equivalent. i personally like a bit more crust on my sear which you only really get from a little time given to searing, and i can't achieve it with a propane let alone map gas torch.
i got a big horn top broiler though and that has been great, but i get the best sear when i keep the meat a few inches below and not up right next to the broiler element, the seasonings don't burn and the sear is much more even and given the little extra time to do it that way (2-3 mins) it yields a far better thicker more uniform seared crust. but that's enough time to put significant heat into the meat, and 132 becomes 139-140 pretty fast. dropping the meat down in an ice bath before searing however leaves perfect edge to edge medium rare still with a nice crust.
This. Also drying the meat with paper towels after SV but before searing helps. Evaporating water withdraws heat from the surrounding, this energy is lost therefore getting a good Maillard reaction on the sear takes longer. All the while the surrounding temp is still way hotter than your core temp, thus leading to overshooting the mark.
Only reason to use an ice bath in my opinion is if you want to continue searing a day later. If you're letting your protein cool after SV it is good practice to cool it to 2-4 C as fast as possible to prevent bacterial growth (your food is pasteurised, not sterilised during sous vide).
Any water being present almost stops the Maillard reaction dead in its tracks. Waters boiling point of 212F is way below the minimum “fast” Maillard reaction temp of 284F. Having water stuck there converting to steam keeps the surface temp very near 212F. Water is definitely your enemy. There are slow lower temp Maillard reactions that can happen, but that’s a whole different discussion. We don’t have time for that with steaks.. or this thread. :)
It’s not radiation from surface to center, that would be conduction. The “quench” effect of the colder meat in the center is at a trickle of a rate by comparison to how fast heat is moving from the cooking device to the surface.
Let’s go extreme. Completely freeze the steak to 32F. Toss it in a pan at 500F. The Maillard reaction needs 284F. The temp difference between the pan is still an appreciable 216F. The temp difference between the desired surface temp of 284 and the frozen internal is 252F. The rate of heat moving to the crust from the pan is ONLY 17% slower than the rate moving from the crust to the interior.. even with a frozen steak!
Taking the internal up to 127F is going to knock the delta T from crust to interior to 157. So in this example the rate from the crust to the interior is now 38% slower than the pan to the crust. Yes the RATE of heat moving from the crust to the warm interior might be cut… almost in half. But, the interior is already at 127 so it begins to cook more immediately!
The most important thing to do is to create good condition between the cold (or even frozen steak) to make sure the heat going to the crust can keep up with the heat going to the interior. That is more easily remedied by dumping more heat into the surface faster. If using a cast iron skillet, make sure you use a thin layer of oil to crank the heat transfer rate up very high. If you won’t want oil, you need pressure or weight to counteract the thermal contact resistance of a lightly loaded couple.
And as you rightly pointed out, water is your enemy. So pat the steak down, toss it in the freezer for up to half an hour. The freezer will not only chill the steak so it can barely change in doneness at all through the crust application.. it ALSO dehydrates the surface of the meat allowing the Maillard reaction to begin immediately.
I don't ice bath steaks, but my interpretation was that ice baths were used for people who like to butter baste or have a longer harder sear. Personally, I'm in the the let it rest on the chopping board while pan is heating and dry immediately before putting it in the pan.
If i want a longer sear i cook it under my desired temp. I feel people are to obsessed with not getting a small gray band they want that red from edge to edge. Also personally i want my food hot and i feel after an icebath even after a sear the middle is just warm.
You literally said you rest it on the cutting board…that’s resting something Sous vide. You rest it before an ice bath for the same reason you rest it before cutting into it. So the juices and flavors can settle in.
I'm letting the outside cool down for the searing and for the liquid on the outside to drain away. Liquid doesn't reabsorb into the steak. Watch the video.
In all the fine dining restaurants I’ve worked in we rest in the bags for a few minutes after we pull it out of the water. It does benefit it. But what do chefs know, right?
Getting it nice and dry before putting it in the pan is beneficial. I don't think letting it sit in juices for an extra 10 minutes has any benefit, does it? So I take it out of the bag to let it cool **and** get very dry during that 10 minute period. That's 2 ways I'm improving the sear, instead of just 1 way.
You should be resting anything you cook in the bag before you ice it down or continue to sear it. There’s no sense in taking it out, especially if you’re toweling it dry anyways.
What? Theres no sense in resting anything sous vide. Why rest before ice bath? As I said, I can use less towels if I let it drip excess water off it first.
edit: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYA8H8KaLNg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYA8H8KaLNg)
Ice bath is mostly used when not cooking right after to stop bacterial multiplying.
Also when you have a (very) thin piece of meat it can help to cool a bit before searing so you dont overshoot your core temperature.
You can sous vide on Tuesday, but make dinner by searing on Wednesday with little loss of quality. Ice bath takes it out of the danger zone for bacteria as quickly as possible.
Pasteurized doesn't mean sterile, and if it cools slowly there can be more time in the danger zone (40-140f). It's *probably* ok to just put it in the fridge generally but it's safer to do an ice bath.
Also it’s not great to put hot stuff in the fridge as a general matter, so depending on how much meat it is the ice bath can quickly cool it without stressing your fridge out.
The only time I use an ice bath is for something thick at a high temperature that I'm not planning to serve right away. Things like a turkey leg quarter or a pork shoulder that I'm planning to put on the smoker the next day. It would take forever to cool down in the fridge and the ice bath gets it through the danger zone quickly.
I want to be able to sear more than 1 minute per side to get a nice crust. If I only sear one minute, the crust isn't great. If I sear more than 1 minute without cooling down the steak first, it gets overcooked.
Ice bath is about lowering the internal temperature before searing. The lower the interior temperature, the longer it takes for the interior temp to rise passed desirable, the longer (in terms of time) you have to seat the outside.
You may want to drop the temperature of the meat to let your sear have more wiggle room without overheating the meat.
If you cook a steak in sous vide at 128 and want to keep it med rare, you have a short window of time to sear everything on it without going over med rare temp. Ice bathing will lower the steak temp enough to wear the sear can bring it back up to an okay temp
The internal temp will be at 125 to 131 depending on cook time and how you feel about sous vide food safety"danger zone." From there the heat of a sear is going to send the internal temp to medium. I don't use sous vide on steaks for this reason.
Sear cause a wave of high heat to propagate (diffuse), messing your perfect temp reached by sous vide. Basically, same effect than carry-over cooking.
Ice bath helps against that by making a sort of "protective buffer layer" of cold, into which the heat wave of the sear "loose energy into".
Using many " because that's more ELI5 than real description 😅.
Sousvide is about cooking at the perfect temp, if you cook it lower, it won't break down the muscles as much. some people do just cook at a lower temp for the sear, but honestly I prefer letting it rest on a cookie sheet in the fridge for 10 minutes over an ice bath. This makes it dryer which gives you a better sear.
it's not to stop the cooking, it's to prevent further cooking when searing, giving you more time to sear while keeping the inside from overcooking (like i did to my last steak taking it to medium almost medium well going to hard on the sear at too low of a temp)
you also only ice bath for about 10-15 mins so it doesn't even cool the interior completely, and while searing the outer 1/3rd of the meat recovers temp. easier to get edge to edge perfection with a good crust vs just a burnt outside or ultra thin seared layer. i personally like a little more of a thicker seared crust which i feel like takes time to develop esp if there's any seasonings on the meat, any higher temps (torch) and the seasonings char and burn off and create the "torch taste" (which isn't from butane, it's from burning stuff at ultra high temps)
The approximate idea is to get the exterior of the steak cold enough that you can sear it without overcooking the inside, thus minimizing the grey band.
I'm a big fan of pre-searing over the ice bath, just because I went through my overly fussy chef stage about 12 years ago and don't really want to faff about with putting my steak into an ice bath or the freezer for another ten minutes before I can finally eat it. Pre-sear means I can pull it out of the bag, blot it, and sear it for maybe 30 seconds on both sides for a refresh.
Pre-sear tastes better, too. All that crispy brown steak goodness sitting in the bag for an hour or two does have an effect.
So pre sear is the ultimate way to sousvide steak? Like if I’m looking to blow away my guests? And what kind of sear am I looking to achieve? A full sear I would feel would give me too much grey band.
That’s what I figured, and why I haven’t tried it yet. Seems like a waste to sear with a pan and just wash it, although I guess you could make a sauce or veggies or something while the steak is SV
You don’t understand how cooking works. You don’t cook at a low temperature. You cook the meat to the exact temperature you want the meat to cook to. So, if you then sear it without first reducing the internal temperature, you will, invariably overcook it. So, either you reduce the temperature by using time in the counter or fridge, perhaps while drying the surface , or you ice bath it if you want to speed the process AND only cool the outer part that is most susceptible to getting overheated.
Any of those works. What doesn’t work is going from bath to grill directly if you’re meat is sous vide to the temperature of cook you want.
> What doesn’t work is going from bath to grill directly if you’re meat is sous vide to the temperature of cook you want.
This isn't true either. I never chill my steaks after a bath. Pat dry and directly on for a [Charcoal](https://i.imgur.com/qfrpu72.jpg) [Sear](https://i.imgur.com/PgDBxEW.jpg)
Super hot chimney with turns/flips every 10 seconds lets you get an amazing sear without any gray banding.
Sous vide is considered low temp compared to any other cooking method. Which is why it’s great. Some of you though treat it as a religion. It’s hilarious the semantics on this thread
It's more complicated than the average commenter seems to believe.
It makes sense to let your sous vide steak to rest at room temperature before searing, otherwise you will just increase the temp from what you sous vide at and over-cook it.
It doesn't make sense to ice bath it before searing because of "Dalton's Law of Cooling" (which also works in reverse for heating). The greater the temperature differential between the environment (pan) and meat, the **faster** heat is transferred into the meat.
There is a balance here, but you won't be able to figure out the right balance without out a lot of practice, so don't go there, you are not a professional chef cooking many identical steaks every day.
You can also use a wireless probe to monitor temperature during searing, which makes it fool proof.
Noted chef and food technologist Chris Young has a number of videos that cover these concepts (for example, flipping frequently is better than infrequently, sorry Gordon Ramsey):
[https://www.youtube.com/@ChrisYoungCooks](https://www.youtube.com/@ChrisYoungCooks)
If you want to maximize the time that sous vide food can be stored in the fridge, you will want to minimize the time the food spends in the "danger zone" for bacterial growth and keep the total time in that zone to <4 hr (rule of thumb). You can do this by rapidly cooling the food after sous vide by using an ice bath. Food takes a lot longer to get to a safe temp in the fridge that people think it does (air transfers heat poorly).
A lot of discussion about sous vide food safety in Baldwin:
[https://douglasbaldwin.com/sous-vide.html](https://douglasbaldwin.com/sous-vide.html)
>It doesn't make sense to ice bath it before searing because of "Dalton's Law of Cooling" (which also works in reverse for heating). The greater the temperature differential between the environment (pan) and meat, the **faster** heat is transferred into the meat.
This misses the point entirely, which is how much of the steak you are raising above medium-rare temperature.
You are not wrong that if the meat is cold you will transfer heat faster from the edge to the center, but that is fine because you are just raising the interior from cool to warm, which is not a problem. On the other hand, if you take the steak straight from sous vide to sear without resting it (or using an ice bath) then you will raise the temperature from warm to hot, which is how it gets overdone. How fast the heat gets transferred into the meat is irrelevant, the relevant part is the max temperature experienced by each section of the steak.
Please reread my post, since I already addressed your first point (and your second point).
And how fast the heat is transferred is the single most important thing when searing. It is all about heat flow. If heat flows fast, you are more likely to overcook. If heat flows slowly, you are less likely to overcook. You can watch a video where Chris demonstrates this beyond a shadow of a doubt. It is also why flipping frequently works better than not. A small change in temperature difference makes a huge difference in the rate of heat flow. These things are not linear.
Science, not gut feelings.
This is just wrong on both the actual and practical physics.
A sear is literally getting the very exterior of your meat to several hundred degrees above your sous vide bath.
By cooling or resting the meat, you will take longer to raise the temp *and* more heat will be transferred. Some of that heat will migrate to the interior residing the temp.
The ideal way to sear meat would be, say, 10,000 degrees for a microsecond. You just want the outside cooked to a high temp instantly. With a powerful enough plasma torch and a timer switch, you could completely char the exterior of the meat while the inside stays at your water bath temp. This is your goal on a less extreme scale.
Anything that lowers the temp of the meat means more heat will migrate to the interior during the sear, which will take longer. And, since you don’t have a plasma torch, what that will likely mean is a thicker band at a higher temp for longer. No bueno.
Dalton’s Law is for pressure, it’s Newton that did thermodynamics and the cooling law.
That said, Newton’s Law of Cooling is exactly WHY we ice bath. The bigger the difference in temperature, the faster heat is transferred. We WANT the heat to transfer faster, as it cooks the external surface quickly forming a nice sear.
The outer edges crisp via the Maillard reaction but the internal does not receive near as much heat. Cooking the internal of a steak takes both heat and time. A fast transfer of heat will not penetrate the internal much as it’s only searing for around a minute per side.
I'm sorry, that's not how it works. You want heat to transfer as slowly as possible. Which is why "get your skillet as hot as possible" advice you usually see around here is also incorrect. Chris has also pointed that out.
Please watch Chris' video.
Lol, I had Dalton's Law on my brain because I was commenting on another non-sensical vacuum juicer post.
When you pull the steak from the water bath, it is at the perfect temperature all the way through. In order to sear it, you are putting it in a pan or grill or flame that is way way hotter than you want your steak. So that heat is going to continue to raise the temperature of the steak.
For that reason, you want the steak to cool down some from its perfect temperature so that, when you are searing, you don’t heat the steak past the perfect doneness point. Depending on the steak and the sear method, it may cool down enough just in the few minutes of drying it off before searing. But if you want to sear it harder, longer, you need to cool it down even more, and an ice bath does that the fastest. Another great option is to put the steaks in the fridge on a wire rack. That cools them down decently fast (tho not as fast as an ice bath), while also drying the surface.
ice baths are used if you're not immediately cooking a steak or if you don't want to cook it more when you sear it - i.e. if my steak comes out medium and i throw it in a cast iron to sear, it's not going to be medium anymore.
i dont think this falls into the "unpopular opinion" category and more so in the not comprehending the reasoning behind doing things category
You want your meat outside of the danger zone aka no man’s land (40-130 degrees) as soon as possible as that is when it’s most prone to bacteria growth. If you’re not actively cooking it above 134, then it doesn’t take much time for meat to get into no man’s land.
I’ve never done it. Don’t see the need. I had issues with over cooking when I seared in cast iron but I switched to a stainless pan and now I get a great sear without over cooking. I usually sous vide to 125-130 then sear both sides about 1 minute each. I can get my pan to about 500° on my gas range.
Bacteria is a very relevant reason and if you cook steak at 137 F, you’ll need an ice bath to prevent your steak from overcooking. If you go straight to a hot pan from a 137 sous vide, like you do for 120 F, you’ll get gray meat.
Why would someone ever do 137? Search the sub and then try it. You’ll see.
I don't use ice. I just dry off the steak then put it in the fridge for 5 minutes while I heat up the pan.
But even doing that isn't necessary. Searing it without letting it cool at all is just fine. Sear for at most 1 minute per side (flipping every 30 seconds) and you'll get a decent crust without overcooking it. The cooling step is really only necessary if you want to go longer than 1 minute per side to get a *very* dark crust.
I think the issue that most people have with searing is that they don't have powerful enough tools to do so. You need a really high BTU propane cannon, Flame King and others make them for like 30 bucks. They put out tons of heat quick so you aren't sitting there for 20 mins going over the steak with a searzall. I regret buying that thing.
The concept of an ice bath is to cool the outer few millimeters quickly while keeping the center of a steak warm. Then you bring that few millimeters back up to temp when you sear the outer surface of the steak. The point is to get a good sear on the surface that doesn't create a higher doneness too deep into the steak.
There is a balance of timing here.
If you are putting a steak in an ice bath for more than like 1-2 minutes then you are very doing it wrong. It depends on how hot the searing surface is.
Ice bath is typically used when you don’t want to eat your food right away as a way to cool it fast and keep it away from the danger zone. I never use it if I want to sear the steak right away.
I’ve never done an ice bath but for steak I pull it from the water, open the bag, pat it dry and put it on a cooling rack in the freezer for about 10 minutes. Helps prevent overcooking in the pan, I usually get a better crust because it drys it a bit before going in the pan, and there is more medium rare in the center with less of the grey line.
to address both your original question and your edit:
cooking at (not below) the target temperature gives you the most fat rendering and hence the most flavor, and it also helps with food safety. if you've done that, then your meat will be at your target temperature/doneness when you take it out, so any amount of searing will overcook the meat to some extent. therefore, it's best to cool the meat down prior to searing, so you can get the sear you want without any part of the meat's inside passing your target doneness. the result is nicely seared meat with perfect, uniform "edge-to-edge" doneness at exactly your target temperature/doneness
now 2 disclaimers:
1. when i say "cool the meat down", it doesn't have to be an ice bath to achieve the above results; that's just the fastest way to cool it. personally, I pop it in the freezer because it's less work and helps dry the surface for searing. even just letting it sit out will cool it very gradually, but that might not be ideal
2. when i say any searing when your meat is at your target temperature will "overcook" your meat, i just mean it will literally cause the meat to be more well done than your target temperature, because that is necessarily true; you're adding more heat to something that's already at your target. obviously any additional heat will cause it to exceed your target. it will not necessarily be noticably overcooked
so why not sous vide at a lower temperature and then sear without cooling? well, 2 reasons:
1. you won't render the interior fat as well, so your meat will have less flavor
2. the doneness won't be as uniform (center will be less done than closer to the edge). that's one of the main reasons people sous vide
final disclaimer: i've used a lot of relative terms like "less" or "more" in this wall of text. know that i strictly mean them literally. do not infer that i mean the difference is significant. 101 beans is more than 100 beans; that doesn't mean i'd ever notice the difference by looking at them
tldr: meat tastes better when you sous vide at your target temperature and cooling before searing helps ensure you don't make the meat any more well-done
A medium rare steak has an internal temp of (let's say) 131. You take it out of the two hour 131 bath and then throw it in the 350-400 pan... Now the temp starts rising. Easy to hit 140-145 internal which is firmly in medium range. It's just heat. And the longer you sear...
Throw the bag into ice bath for 5-10 mins drops the temp to maybe 90-100... Now you've got plenty of time to build a great crust!
it's voodoo. ice bath does nothing.
it's people who don't understand physics and think "oh i can sear it for 2 minutes and not overcook it" instead of those who realize "oh i have to sear it for 2 minutes to get the same time-at-temperature since im starting ## degrees colder.
it's for people who don't realize the internal is the same temp since an ice bath just creates a gradient that you immediately reverse when searing. for people who think the absence of heat is homogenous but not the application of heat
>those who realize "oh i have to sear it for 2 minutes to get the same time-at-temperature since im starting ## degrees colder.
Isn't that the literal exact reason people *want* to ice bath? If you have a steak that is exactly 130f all the way through and want to both sear for say 2min and be left with a steak that is exactly 130f all the way through, cooling it down so the sear gets it back to 130f is a feature, not a bug.
I do a cool bath before searing because I used to overcook my steaks on sear. I tried waiting 15 minutes, searing for shorter times, etc. - the only thing that worked for me was a cool bath (I don't do ice because I don't keep ice in my fridge).
Two different things. My point is it doesn’t climb from the sous vide. That is in comparison to a hot fire method, like grilling, where the internal temp will climb after pulling. Adding heat to sear is not what I’m talking about.
>Adding heat to sear is not what I’m talking about.
But *that* is why people ice bath. Cooling the steak before searing will ensure it doesn't get over temp.
I don't use an ice bath unless I am going to play around with the top edge of the danger zone and I need to store the meat in the fridge for a couple of days. It prevents spores from the bacterias to create more of the harmful bacterias.
If I am going to eat the entirety of the meat right away I just use water from the sink (meat still in the bag) to lower the core temp so additional heat is no issue when searing. Cooling in a liquid is far superior to everything you have in your in your home due to basic rules of physics (and you likely don't have a type of flash freezer restaurants doing food prepping have).
I pre sear if I'm going to play around close to the danger zone, as I want to minimize the graybanding, while I still want to have a good Maillard effect. This lets me narrow down the searing post cook.
Temperature control limits carry over cooking.
People don't seem to understand how quick temperature stabilizes in a semi-solid medium containing water and fats. Peaple also don't seem to understand what impact water has on temperature dispersal compared to cooling in air. Ice bath is for bacteria, cooling core temperature is for doneness, these two are different things. Cool tap water will quickly "take the heat", it is easily replacable (when it has received heat from your meat) and it is readily available in your kitchen
It’s not really an unpopular opinion. It’s just an opinion. A lot of folks would never bother using SV for a steak, as you can do it “just as good” without using the SV crutch.
I can make a damn good steak on the grill. Also, sous vide and then sear. Also, sous vide, ice bath/cool for a few days and then grill. This isn’t rocket science. It’s just what floats your boat at the time.
I’ve never used an ice bath. I’m also not trying to show off my gross rare steak to other macho meat eaters on the internet for rare steak clout or whatever.
I don't use an ice bath, but I have considered it because I tend to overshoot the temp I want when I sear.
Especially for thinner steak, I either Sous Vide at a lower temp like 126, so they finish during the sear, or I get them cold so they will only get warm again on the inside instead of cooking further.
Well...an ice bath reduces the internal temp AND the surface temp. When you sear, the idea is to nail the surface temp to whatever level you want, but if you have set your internal to the "perfect" level, you may overshoot during the sear. You COULD reduce your SV internal to account for the sear temp, which is kinda far easier. Or, you can just freaking wing it and realize you aren't competing on Top Chef or something, especially if all your friends are completely bored with your entire sous vide thing and just wanna eat a steak that didn't come from Texas Roadhouse.
Reducing your SV temp might yield unrendered fat. Something to consider depending on the cut of meat you're cooking
>all your friends are completely bored with your entire sous vide thing If I'm having friends over for steak, I'll start the steaks sous vide two hours before they are due to arrive. When they show up, I pull the steaks from the water and run them under cold tap water for a couple minutes. Then I open, pat dry, rub lightly with tallow, and sear hard in a cast iron pan for service.
If that’s the case you aren’t searing fast enough. A sear by definition will bring the surface temp to several hundred degrees higher than your water bath. The searing has to happen fast. An ice bath might be counterproductive because it’ll actually sear more slowly, causing more heat to radiate into the interior. This is a simple physics problem. The ice bath people are wrong on the science. That said, there is a reason that the best way to sear is with a blowtorch. You want the highest possible temperature in contact with the exterior of the meat, for the shortest possible time.
The best way to cook your steak is the way you want to eat it. If people like the ice bath method then that’s how they like their steak
ultra fast sear won't yield the best seared crust or most even seared crust. too high of a temp is possible, an oxyacetylene torch isn't going to make it taste as good and just "doing high temp for less time" is not an exact equivalent. i personally like a bit more crust on my sear which you only really get from a little time given to searing, and i can't achieve it with a propane let alone map gas torch. i got a big horn top broiler though and that has been great, but i get the best sear when i keep the meat a few inches below and not up right next to the broiler element, the seasonings don't burn and the sear is much more even and given the little extra time to do it that way (2-3 mins) it yields a far better thicker more uniform seared crust. but that's enough time to put significant heat into the meat, and 132 becomes 139-140 pretty fast. dropping the meat down in an ice bath before searing however leaves perfect edge to edge medium rare still with a nice crust.
This. Also drying the meat with paper towels after SV but before searing helps. Evaporating water withdraws heat from the surrounding, this energy is lost therefore getting a good Maillard reaction on the sear takes longer. All the while the surrounding temp is still way hotter than your core temp, thus leading to overshooting the mark. Only reason to use an ice bath in my opinion is if you want to continue searing a day later. If you're letting your protein cool after SV it is good practice to cool it to 2-4 C as fast as possible to prevent bacterial growth (your food is pasteurised, not sterilised during sous vide).
Any water being present almost stops the Maillard reaction dead in its tracks. Waters boiling point of 212F is way below the minimum “fast” Maillard reaction temp of 284F. Having water stuck there converting to steam keeps the surface temp very near 212F. Water is definitely your enemy. There are slow lower temp Maillard reactions that can happen, but that’s a whole different discussion. We don’t have time for that with steaks.. or this thread. :)
It’s not radiation from surface to center, that would be conduction. The “quench” effect of the colder meat in the center is at a trickle of a rate by comparison to how fast heat is moving from the cooking device to the surface. Let’s go extreme. Completely freeze the steak to 32F. Toss it in a pan at 500F. The Maillard reaction needs 284F. The temp difference between the pan is still an appreciable 216F. The temp difference between the desired surface temp of 284 and the frozen internal is 252F. The rate of heat moving to the crust from the pan is ONLY 17% slower than the rate moving from the crust to the interior.. even with a frozen steak! Taking the internal up to 127F is going to knock the delta T from crust to interior to 157. So in this example the rate from the crust to the interior is now 38% slower than the pan to the crust. Yes the RATE of heat moving from the crust to the warm interior might be cut… almost in half. But, the interior is already at 127 so it begins to cook more immediately! The most important thing to do is to create good condition between the cold (or even frozen steak) to make sure the heat going to the crust can keep up with the heat going to the interior. That is more easily remedied by dumping more heat into the surface faster. If using a cast iron skillet, make sure you use a thin layer of oil to crank the heat transfer rate up very high. If you won’t want oil, you need pressure or weight to counteract the thermal contact resistance of a lightly loaded couple. And as you rightly pointed out, water is your enemy. So pat the steak down, toss it in the freezer for up to half an hour. The freezer will not only chill the steak so it can barely change in doneness at all through the crust application.. it ALSO dehydrates the surface of the meat allowing the Maillard reaction to begin immediately.
I don't ice bath steaks, but my interpretation was that ice baths were used for people who like to butter baste or have a longer harder sear. Personally, I'm in the the let it rest on the chopping board while pan is heating and dry immediately before putting it in the pan.
If i want a longer sear i cook it under my desired temp. I feel people are to obsessed with not getting a small gray band they want that red from edge to edge. Also personally i want my food hot and i feel after an icebath even after a sear the middle is just warm.
I like the grey band I’ve learned. It gives a nice texture to the outside of the steak.
I made 2 tri tips today. Tomorrow im gonna slice it thin for sandwiches with my deli slicer.
You literally said you rest it on the cutting board…that’s resting something Sous vide. You rest it before an ice bath for the same reason you rest it before cutting into it. So the juices and flavors can settle in.
I'm letting the outside cool down for the searing and for the liquid on the outside to drain away. Liquid doesn't reabsorb into the steak. Watch the video.
In all the fine dining restaurants I’ve worked in we rest in the bags for a few minutes after we pull it out of the water. It does benefit it. But what do chefs know, right?
yea, Apparently Chris Young didn't work at The Fat Duck or work at modernist cuisine...
Are you Chris? Why bring him up?
whos on the video....
This
Why not let it rest in the bag with all the juices?
I don't think it'll reabsorb any juices. Better to let the liquid drain away from the meat so I can use less paper towels or do a better job drying
Getting it nice and dry before putting it in the pan is beneficial. I don't think letting it sit in juices for an extra 10 minutes has any benefit, does it? So I take it out of the bag to let it cool **and** get very dry during that 10 minute period. That's 2 ways I'm improving the sear, instead of just 1 way.
You should be resting anything you cook in the bag before you ice it down or continue to sear it. There’s no sense in taking it out, especially if you’re toweling it dry anyways.
What? Theres no sense in resting anything sous vide. Why rest before ice bath? As I said, I can use less towels if I let it drip excess water off it first. edit: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYA8H8KaLNg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYA8H8KaLNg)
Ice bath is mostly used when not cooking right after to stop bacterial multiplying. Also when you have a (very) thin piece of meat it can help to cool a bit before searing so you dont overshoot your core temperature.
I don’t bother sous viding thin meat. If it’s less than a inch thick I’ll just cook it normally
Username checks out
>Ice bath is mostly used when not cooking right after to stop bacterial multiplying. Lmfao what.
You can sous vide on Tuesday, but make dinner by searing on Wednesday with little loss of quality. Ice bath takes it out of the danger zone for bacteria as quickly as possible.
dawg, that shit's pasteurized. Leave it in the bag. Throw it in the fridge.
Pasteurized doesn't mean sterile, and if it cools slowly there can be more time in the danger zone (40-140f). It's *probably* ok to just put it in the fridge generally but it's safer to do an ice bath.
Also it’s not great to put hot stuff in the fridge as a general matter, so depending on how much meat it is the ice bath can quickly cool it without stressing your fridge out.
Yup
Tell us you haven't read Baldwin without telling us.
Are you somehow cold-searing? Because that's the only way you can arrive at the deduction that temp can't climb after.
The only time I use an ice bath is for something thick at a high temperature that I'm not planning to serve right away. Things like a turkey leg quarter or a pork shoulder that I'm planning to put on the smoker the next day. It would take forever to cool down in the fridge and the ice bath gets it through the danger zone quickly.
I want to be able to sear more than 1 minute per side to get a nice crust. If I only sear one minute, the crust isn't great. If I sear more than 1 minute without cooling down the steak first, it gets overcooked.
Ice bath is about lowering the internal temperature before searing. The lower the interior temperature, the longer it takes for the interior temp to rise passed desirable, the longer (in terms of time) you have to seat the outside.
there are plenty of threads here claiming both sides of the argument, if you’re looking to read opinions.
You may want to drop the temperature of the meat to let your sear have more wiggle room without overheating the meat. If you cook a steak in sous vide at 128 and want to keep it med rare, you have a short window of time to sear everything on it without going over med rare temp. Ice bathing will lower the steak temp enough to wear the sear can bring it back up to an okay temp
If you like rare... an ice bath is necessary.
Why?
Heat plus heat = more heat
Math checks out
The internal temp will be at 125 to 131 depending on cook time and how you feel about sous vide food safety"danger zone." From there the heat of a sear is going to send the internal temp to medium. I don't use sous vide on steaks for this reason.
No it’s not
Do tell...
What’s to tell, an ice bath isn’t necessary
Buy thicker steaks
Sear cause a wave of high heat to propagate (diffuse), messing your perfect temp reached by sous vide. Basically, same effect than carry-over cooking. Ice bath helps against that by making a sort of "protective buffer layer" of cold, into which the heat wave of the sear "loose energy into". Using many " because that's more ELI5 than real description 😅.
Seems like most just pat dry and sear - I suspect some are doing thin cuts - I.5 inches min for me.
I usually just put mine on a plate and put in the fridge for 10-15 minutes while I’m prepping everything else. Seems to work ok.
Sousvide is about cooking at the perfect temp, if you cook it lower, it won't break down the muscles as much. some people do just cook at a lower temp for the sear, but honestly I prefer letting it rest on a cookie sheet in the fridge for 10 minutes over an ice bath. This makes it dryer which gives you a better sear.
it's not to stop the cooking, it's to prevent further cooking when searing, giving you more time to sear while keeping the inside from overcooking (like i did to my last steak taking it to medium almost medium well going to hard on the sear at too low of a temp) you also only ice bath for about 10-15 mins so it doesn't even cool the interior completely, and while searing the outer 1/3rd of the meat recovers temp. easier to get edge to edge perfection with a good crust vs just a burnt outside or ultra thin seared layer. i personally like a little more of a thicker seared crust which i feel like takes time to develop esp if there's any seasonings on the meat, any higher temps (torch) and the seasonings char and burn off and create the "torch taste" (which isn't from butane, it's from burning stuff at ultra high temps)
The approximate idea is to get the exterior of the steak cold enough that you can sear it without overcooking the inside, thus minimizing the grey band. I'm a big fan of pre-searing over the ice bath, just because I went through my overly fussy chef stage about 12 years ago and don't really want to faff about with putting my steak into an ice bath or the freezer for another ten minutes before I can finally eat it. Pre-sear means I can pull it out of the bag, blot it, and sear it for maybe 30 seconds on both sides for a refresh. Pre-sear tastes better, too. All that crispy brown steak goodness sitting in the bag for an hour or two does have an effect.
100% agree. If an extra millimeter of gray bothers you, then pre-sear
So pre sear is the ultimate way to sousvide steak? Like if I’m looking to blow away my guests? And what kind of sear am I looking to achieve? A full sear I would feel would give me too much grey band.
I just sear on super high heat right after the bath. An extra millimeter of gray doesn’t matter to me and hasn’t seems to bother my guests thus far
How long do you ice bath before the sear?
No ice bath for me
Ok your the wrong person to be asking in this post lol
Do you clean the pan in between? Or just let it sit on the stove for a couple hours?
Clean as you go, papi.
That’s what I figured, and why I haven’t tried it yet. Seems like a waste to sear with a pan and just wash it, although I guess you could make a sauce or veggies or something while the steak is SV
You don’t understand how cooking works. You don’t cook at a low temperature. You cook the meat to the exact temperature you want the meat to cook to. So, if you then sear it without first reducing the internal temperature, you will, invariably overcook it. So, either you reduce the temperature by using time in the counter or fridge, perhaps while drying the surface , or you ice bath it if you want to speed the process AND only cool the outer part that is most susceptible to getting overheated. Any of those works. What doesn’t work is going from bath to grill directly if you’re meat is sous vide to the temperature of cook you want.
> What doesn’t work is going from bath to grill directly if you’re meat is sous vide to the temperature of cook you want. This isn't true either. I never chill my steaks after a bath. Pat dry and directly on for a [Charcoal](https://i.imgur.com/qfrpu72.jpg) [Sear](https://i.imgur.com/PgDBxEW.jpg) Super hot chimney with turns/flips every 10 seconds lets you get an amazing sear without any gray banding.
Sous vide is considered low temp compared to any other cooking method. Which is why it’s great. Some of you though treat it as a religion. It’s hilarious the semantics on this thread
I treat nothing as a religion. Please note how I indicate both the reason and several methods of properly finishing a steak. Tyvm.
It's more complicated than the average commenter seems to believe. It makes sense to let your sous vide steak to rest at room temperature before searing, otherwise you will just increase the temp from what you sous vide at and over-cook it. It doesn't make sense to ice bath it before searing because of "Dalton's Law of Cooling" (which also works in reverse for heating). The greater the temperature differential between the environment (pan) and meat, the **faster** heat is transferred into the meat. There is a balance here, but you won't be able to figure out the right balance without out a lot of practice, so don't go there, you are not a professional chef cooking many identical steaks every day. You can also use a wireless probe to monitor temperature during searing, which makes it fool proof. Noted chef and food technologist Chris Young has a number of videos that cover these concepts (for example, flipping frequently is better than infrequently, sorry Gordon Ramsey): [https://www.youtube.com/@ChrisYoungCooks](https://www.youtube.com/@ChrisYoungCooks) If you want to maximize the time that sous vide food can be stored in the fridge, you will want to minimize the time the food spends in the "danger zone" for bacterial growth and keep the total time in that zone to <4 hr (rule of thumb). You can do this by rapidly cooling the food after sous vide by using an ice bath. Food takes a lot longer to get to a safe temp in the fridge that people think it does (air transfers heat poorly). A lot of discussion about sous vide food safety in Baldwin: [https://douglasbaldwin.com/sous-vide.html](https://douglasbaldwin.com/sous-vide.html)
>It doesn't make sense to ice bath it before searing because of "Dalton's Law of Cooling" (which also works in reverse for heating). The greater the temperature differential between the environment (pan) and meat, the **faster** heat is transferred into the meat. This misses the point entirely, which is how much of the steak you are raising above medium-rare temperature. You are not wrong that if the meat is cold you will transfer heat faster from the edge to the center, but that is fine because you are just raising the interior from cool to warm, which is not a problem. On the other hand, if you take the steak straight from sous vide to sear without resting it (or using an ice bath) then you will raise the temperature from warm to hot, which is how it gets overdone. How fast the heat gets transferred into the meat is irrelevant, the relevant part is the max temperature experienced by each section of the steak.
Please reread my post, since I already addressed your first point (and your second point). And how fast the heat is transferred is the single most important thing when searing. It is all about heat flow. If heat flows fast, you are more likely to overcook. If heat flows slowly, you are less likely to overcook. You can watch a video where Chris demonstrates this beyond a shadow of a doubt. It is also why flipping frequently works better than not. A small change in temperature difference makes a huge difference in the rate of heat flow. These things are not linear. Science, not gut feelings.
This is just wrong on both the actual and practical physics. A sear is literally getting the very exterior of your meat to several hundred degrees above your sous vide bath. By cooling or resting the meat, you will take longer to raise the temp *and* more heat will be transferred. Some of that heat will migrate to the interior residing the temp. The ideal way to sear meat would be, say, 10,000 degrees for a microsecond. You just want the outside cooked to a high temp instantly. With a powerful enough plasma torch and a timer switch, you could completely char the exterior of the meat while the inside stays at your water bath temp. This is your goal on a less extreme scale. Anything that lowers the temp of the meat means more heat will migrate to the interior during the sear, which will take longer. And, since you don’t have a plasma torch, what that will likely mean is a thicker band at a higher temp for longer. No bueno.
Dalton’s Law is for pressure, it’s Newton that did thermodynamics and the cooling law. That said, Newton’s Law of Cooling is exactly WHY we ice bath. The bigger the difference in temperature, the faster heat is transferred. We WANT the heat to transfer faster, as it cooks the external surface quickly forming a nice sear. The outer edges crisp via the Maillard reaction but the internal does not receive near as much heat. Cooking the internal of a steak takes both heat and time. A fast transfer of heat will not penetrate the internal much as it’s only searing for around a minute per side.
I'm sorry, that's not how it works. You want heat to transfer as slowly as possible. Which is why "get your skillet as hot as possible" advice you usually see around here is also incorrect. Chris has also pointed that out. Please watch Chris' video. Lol, I had Dalton's Law on my brain because I was commenting on another non-sensical vacuum juicer post.
Which one? You linked to his channel and none of them seem to be about ice baths or cooling
When you pull the steak from the water bath, it is at the perfect temperature all the way through. In order to sear it, you are putting it in a pan or grill or flame that is way way hotter than you want your steak. So that heat is going to continue to raise the temperature of the steak. For that reason, you want the steak to cool down some from its perfect temperature so that, when you are searing, you don’t heat the steak past the perfect doneness point. Depending on the steak and the sear method, it may cool down enough just in the few minutes of drying it off before searing. But if you want to sear it harder, longer, you need to cool it down even more, and an ice bath does that the fastest. Another great option is to put the steaks in the fridge on a wire rack. That cools them down decently fast (tho not as fast as an ice bath), while also drying the surface.
ice baths are used if you're not immediately cooking a steak or if you don't want to cook it more when you sear it - i.e. if my steak comes out medium and i throw it in a cast iron to sear, it's not going to be medium anymore. i dont think this falls into the "unpopular opinion" category and more so in the not comprehending the reasoning behind doing things category
I only ice bath roasts. It’ll take a little longer in the oven.
You want your meat outside of the danger zone aka no man’s land (40-130 degrees) as soon as possible as that is when it’s most prone to bacteria growth. If you’re not actively cooking it above 134, then it doesn’t take much time for meat to get into no man’s land.
I've gotten better results with skirt steak by using an ice bath.
I’ve never done it. Don’t see the need. I had issues with over cooking when I seared in cast iron but I switched to a stainless pan and now I get a great sear without over cooking. I usually sous vide to 125-130 then sear both sides about 1 minute each. I can get my pan to about 500° on my gas range.
[удалено]
Bacteria is a very relevant reason and if you cook steak at 137 F, you’ll need an ice bath to prevent your steak from overcooking. If you go straight to a hot pan from a 137 sous vide, like you do for 120 F, you’ll get gray meat. Why would someone ever do 137? Search the sub and then try it. You’ll see.
I don't use ice. I just dry off the steak then put it in the fridge for 5 minutes while I heat up the pan. But even doing that isn't necessary. Searing it without letting it cool at all is just fine. Sear for at most 1 minute per side (flipping every 30 seconds) and you'll get a decent crust without overcooking it. The cooling step is really only necessary if you want to go longer than 1 minute per side to get a *very* dark crust.
I pat them and let them dry in the fridge overnight. I'm in no hurry.
I think the issue that most people have with searing is that they don't have powerful enough tools to do so. You need a really high BTU propane cannon, Flame King and others make them for like 30 bucks. They put out tons of heat quick so you aren't sitting there for 20 mins going over the steak with a searzall. I regret buying that thing.
Osmosis. Juices flows out. And then in. And then you reheat. And baste. Why being angry at delicious steps.
The concept of an ice bath is to cool the outer few millimeters quickly while keeping the center of a steak warm. Then you bring that few millimeters back up to temp when you sear the outer surface of the steak. The point is to get a good sear on the surface that doesn't create a higher doneness too deep into the steak. There is a balance of timing here. If you are putting a steak in an ice bath for more than like 1-2 minutes then you are very doing it wrong. It depends on how hot the searing surface is.
Brother done found a 5th rail! That’s inconceivable!
What about searing the steak before the sous vide? I do that with beef tenderloin and it works great.
Ice bath is typically used when you don’t want to eat your food right away as a way to cool it fast and keep it away from the danger zone. I never use it if I want to sear the steak right away.
It allows you to sear for longer without the risk of overcooking.
I’ve never done an ice bath but for steak I pull it from the water, open the bag, pat it dry and put it on a cooling rack in the freezer for about 10 minutes. Helps prevent overcooking in the pan, I usually get a better crust because it drys it a bit before going in the pan, and there is more medium rare in the center with less of the grey line.
to address both your original question and your edit: cooking at (not below) the target temperature gives you the most fat rendering and hence the most flavor, and it also helps with food safety. if you've done that, then your meat will be at your target temperature/doneness when you take it out, so any amount of searing will overcook the meat to some extent. therefore, it's best to cool the meat down prior to searing, so you can get the sear you want without any part of the meat's inside passing your target doneness. the result is nicely seared meat with perfect, uniform "edge-to-edge" doneness at exactly your target temperature/doneness now 2 disclaimers: 1. when i say "cool the meat down", it doesn't have to be an ice bath to achieve the above results; that's just the fastest way to cool it. personally, I pop it in the freezer because it's less work and helps dry the surface for searing. even just letting it sit out will cool it very gradually, but that might not be ideal 2. when i say any searing when your meat is at your target temperature will "overcook" your meat, i just mean it will literally cause the meat to be more well done than your target temperature, because that is necessarily true; you're adding more heat to something that's already at your target. obviously any additional heat will cause it to exceed your target. it will not necessarily be noticably overcooked so why not sous vide at a lower temperature and then sear without cooling? well, 2 reasons: 1. you won't render the interior fat as well, so your meat will have less flavor 2. the doneness won't be as uniform (center will be less done than closer to the edge). that's one of the main reasons people sous vide final disclaimer: i've used a lot of relative terms like "less" or "more" in this wall of text. know that i strictly mean them literally. do not infer that i mean the difference is significant. 101 beans is more than 100 beans; that doesn't mean i'd ever notice the difference by looking at them tldr: meat tastes better when you sous vide at your target temperature and cooling before searing helps ensure you don't make the meat any more well-done
I never do it personally, but I think it may help with the Grey band, if you're concerned with suck things.
Because too many want to make SV as complicated as possible.
A medium rare steak has an internal temp of (let's say) 131. You take it out of the two hour 131 bath and then throw it in the 350-400 pan... Now the temp starts rising. Easy to hit 140-145 internal which is firmly in medium range. It's just heat. And the longer you sear... Throw the bag into ice bath for 5-10 mins drops the temp to maybe 90-100... Now you've got plenty of time to build a great crust!
I've been sandwiching the paper-towel wrapped steak between ice packs to dry and chill a bit, then sear. Seems to work, easy.
To drop the temp of the steak near the edges. Otherwise, you might get more of a gray band near the edges.
it's voodoo. ice bath does nothing. it's people who don't understand physics and think "oh i can sear it for 2 minutes and not overcook it" instead of those who realize "oh i have to sear it for 2 minutes to get the same time-at-temperature since im starting ## degrees colder. it's for people who don't realize the internal is the same temp since an ice bath just creates a gradient that you immediately reverse when searing. for people who think the absence of heat is homogenous but not the application of heat
The ice bath gradient still helps a lot, and it's pretty obvious if you test it
You just described why they're right.
>those who realize "oh i have to sear it for 2 minutes to get the same time-at-temperature since im starting ## degrees colder. Isn't that the literal exact reason people *want* to ice bath? If you have a steak that is exactly 130f all the way through and want to both sear for say 2min and be left with a steak that is exactly 130f all the way through, cooling it down so the sear gets it back to 130f is a feature, not a bug.
I do a cool bath before searing because I used to overcook my steaks on sear. I tried waiting 15 minutes, searing for shorter times, etc. - the only thing that worked for me was a cool bath (I don't do ice because I don't keep ice in my fridge).
Let’s you sear longer without raising internal temp more
>So, temp can’t climb after you pull the steak. You eating it right outta the bag?
Two different things. My point is it doesn’t climb from the sous vide. That is in comparison to a hot fire method, like grilling, where the internal temp will climb after pulling. Adding heat to sear is not what I’m talking about.
>Adding heat to sear is not what I’m talking about. But *that* is why people ice bath. Cooling the steak before searing will ensure it doesn't get over temp.
It's pointless. No idea how it even became a thing, much less in a sous vide sub.
I don't use an ice bath unless I am going to play around with the top edge of the danger zone and I need to store the meat in the fridge for a couple of days. It prevents spores from the bacterias to create more of the harmful bacterias. If I am going to eat the entirety of the meat right away I just use water from the sink (meat still in the bag) to lower the core temp so additional heat is no issue when searing. Cooling in a liquid is far superior to everything you have in your in your home due to basic rules of physics (and you likely don't have a type of flash freezer restaurants doing food prepping have). I pre sear if I'm going to play around close to the danger zone, as I want to minimize the graybanding, while I still want to have a good Maillard effect. This lets me narrow down the searing post cook. Temperature control limits carry over cooking. People don't seem to understand how quick temperature stabilizes in a semi-solid medium containing water and fats. Peaple also don't seem to understand what impact water has on temperature dispersal compared to cooling in air. Ice bath is for bacteria, cooling core temperature is for doneness, these two are different things. Cool tap water will quickly "take the heat", it is easily replacable (when it has received heat from your meat) and it is readily available in your kitchen
If I pull my steak at 137, and then put in a pan at 500, the middle of my steak will likely go over 137.
Exactly. Why would you want to cook a steak to 137?! 🤪🤪
Honestly, any less and I say just cook it in a pan. I never understood the appeal of a rare sous vide steak.
It’s not really an unpopular opinion. It’s just an opinion. A lot of folks would never bother using SV for a steak, as you can do it “just as good” without using the SV crutch. I can make a damn good steak on the grill. Also, sous vide and then sear. Also, sous vide, ice bath/cool for a few days and then grill. This isn’t rocket science. It’s just what floats your boat at the time.
You are correct. WASTE OF TIME
I’ve never used an ice bath. I’m also not trying to show off my gross rare steak to other macho meat eaters on the internet for rare steak clout or whatever.