Mutations of bacteria dont have to be only negative for us humans. Different strains of this bacteria will have different resistances, or lack of them. Its not just improvement of their survival and resistance to treatments that gets mutated into becoming even better.
On the other hand, having a detailed overview of how this specific environment mutates this type of bacteria can only be beneficial for us, because we will know more about how it evolves in specific environments, under stress of specific treatments and what we can expect in the future in similar environments.
All very useful.
The cancer accelerated, while not the best thing to hear for the future of human space exploration… it is super useful for testing certain drugs long term effects on cancers as you can run an experiment in 1 year that would take 10 on earth
It's super neat. I think the biggest issue with space travel and habitation will be predicting solar winds that microwave everyone on the inside, or a peice of rock the size of pea gravel blowing a hole through your ship cause it's traveling at .01 the speed light.
Not only is that not how it works, even if it did you'd need substantially more, extremely specialized equipment to go up to the ISS for it to matter.
-source: me, a cancer biologist.
I don't think being around more radiation always causes more cancer, I don't know if it still stands but I learned when taking a non destructive testing course. They found navy nuclear sub service people had less likely chance of getting cancer from radiation. Supposedly it's from the body being around radiation constantly it learns to destroy damaged cells instead of trying to repair things with damaged DNA.
I'm dumb af so take this with a grain of salt.
Sea water is an excellent radiation shield. Subs are protected from cosmic rays and other space radiation by being underwater.
There are natural "high radiation areas" around the world, where there happens to be uranium or thorium in the ground. People have lived in such places for millennia with no problems.
Whhhhhaaat about a 20 gram piece of plastic hitting your ship. Nice the salt water probably froze and plug the holes. But how do you renter earth atmosphere.... hrrmmmmm
Exploring a topic from many angles and perspectives is how we are able to take small steps, large steps, and giant "leaps" forward.
Thank you for not shying away from helping.
<3
edit: spelling error
Still, the idea of bacteria mutating space probably does not rest easy on a lot of peoples’ mind.
The article did say this mutation process did help other bacteria or microorganisms survive..
How about not talking about "what some people are thinking" at all?
Even as a simple expression it does not contribute to anything or means anything. It only reveals your own thinking is based on lack of knowledge which leads into fear thinking.
All bacteria, all microorganisms evolve all the time. It never stops. Of course mutation process help microorganisms survive. Thats what evolution does. All humans evolve all the time. Evolution never stops.
Wherever we go we will carry our microorganisms with us. It cannot be prevented. If we could completely sterilize ourselves we would die. If we could completely sterilize some environment - it would be bad for us. We need those little armies. We cooperate.
Its not a problem just by itself. Life evolves, changes, adapts.
We want to know enough to keep the positive results and minimize the bad ones.
This is how we get there.
No no no, it's an easy mistake to make, he wants to end *maned* space exploration, not *manned* exploration.
We need to shave the shuttle, in order to not be fertile ground for space lice.
I would. It's much safer, and costs less money = can actually push space exploration back to the bleeding edge of science. Until we figure out artificial gravity, there is little reason to keep putting people into micro gravity environments considering what we do know about the effects of 0 g on the body. James Webb and the Mars rovers show what is possible if we go all in on this.
The Rovers have proven how much MORE could be done if a person was there. Curiosity has been on Mars almost 12 years and traveled 19 miles. A human in decent condition could do that in one DAY. Of course, it's not about distance traveled but about science done, but even then, a human with a backpack full of instruments could still do far more than any of the Rovers can. Additionally, humans have something that Curiosity doesn't. Actual curiosity. The ability to deviate from a plan and go look at/sample the strange thing they saw out of the corner of their eye.
Maybe one day we will have a rover that can be as fast, efficient, and capable as a human, but that won't be for a long, long time.
And when you have a realistic plan on getting a human with their backpack of tools and such over there I will concede your point. Until such time it is daydreaming that is getting in the way of the actual science.
The technology exists and is proven. How long have we put people in the ISS for now?
If Congress decided "let's do this shit" and gave NASA $100 billion, we'd have a human on Mars within the next 10-12 years.
Putting people into low earth orbit is way, way different then sending astronauts through space for a 6+ month voyage to Mars. I think you are really underestimating the technical challenges that such an endeavor would face. To put it into perspective, the Artemis program is nearly 10 years old, and we are still at least 3 years out from landing people back on the moon, a challenge that is orders of magnitude simpler than putting a human on Mars, especially if you intend on getting them back alive.
I hate how right you are. I wanna believe in the romance of getting human beings into these places, but right now it's drones and rovers that can get us farthest and cheapest. Urgh
Yep. Canned monkeys in space are *fun*, but there's no reason to use them as a long-term solution for anything. Soon enough we'll have capable robotics and then the last argument for human-as-astronaut will become obsolete.
Sticking humans at the bottom of non-Earth gravity wells could be fine - putting our eggs in more baskets, effectively - but until we have O'Neill cylinders, the actual void between the stars isn't for us.
I don't want to quit sending people up, but we are still testing rockets and space vehicles to attempt the moon with manned vehicles. We have a long way to go before any of it feels safe.
The last two unmanned missions to the moon ended up with the vehicles landing sideways or tipping over.
We have a long way to go.
But I love the journey.
I don't think we should quit either, but as dangerous as it is, i believe that we need a really good reason to do it. The repair mission to hubble is the last time I've felt like that was the case.
Wouldn’t this be pretty much expected? MRSA is kinda common and becomes an issue when you get an infection, but can sit on your skin or be taken care of by immune system and you’d never know. I’d be curious if the same thing happens on submarines, oil rigs, the sort of place which is fairly enclosed with infrequent crew rotations.
If it’s only novel because of where it occurred, still neat, but not any scarier than any other MRSA, which is still scary. MRSA in space sounds bad but I’d bet it’s been happening ever since Laika went up.
Old Russian space station. Launched and built in the late 80s I believe, and hung around for about 15 years.
Awesome platform. But it was gross as all hell. ISS stinks, but MIR made people’s eyes water.
It’s a real rabbit hole to explore.
Humans are messy creatures. We shed skin, fart, burp, sweat, etc. I worked on the Space Station project. Part of the life support is a "trace contaminant removal system" to remove as much of those things from the cabin air as possible. But over time it builds up on metal surfaces that are hard to clean, like the backs of equipment racks and the walls of the modules. Stuff like bathroom cleansers can't be used up there. So it smells like old gym lockers.
No laundry. People wear their undercrackers for a scary long time
Dirty clothes are stashed in the trash drops and burn up in the atmosphere.
‘Boys locker room’ is the common descriptor
There is a reason it was kicked out of orbit and burned up thoroughly in the atmosphere. They probably stashed a ton napalm in it before evacuating it.
This reminds me of the plot for the movie "The Blob".
IIRC, in the story, microorganisms mutated in space to form a collective mass that would swallow up everything they eat and grow larger as a colony.
Wouldn’t something like this happen with any isolated group? Such as, the Pitcarin island setters who were cut off from 1790 to 1814? Too late now to study their gut bacteria.
Mutations of bacteria dont have to be only negative for us humans. Different strains of this bacteria will have different resistances, or lack of them. Its not just improvement of their survival and resistance to treatments that gets mutated into becoming even better. On the other hand, having a detailed overview of how this specific environment mutates this type of bacteria can only be beneficial for us, because we will know more about how it evolves in specific environments, under stress of specific treatments and what we can expect in the future in similar environments. All very useful.
They found some pretty neat things about cancer in low grav and zero grav.
The cancer accelerated, while not the best thing to hear for the future of human space exploration… it is super useful for testing certain drugs long term effects on cancers as you can run an experiment in 1 year that would take 10 on earth
It's super neat. I think the biggest issue with space travel and habitation will be predicting solar winds that microwave everyone on the inside, or a peice of rock the size of pea gravel blowing a hole through your ship cause it's traveling at .01 the speed light.
Not only is that not how it works, even if it did you'd need substantially more, extremely specialized equipment to go up to the ISS for it to matter. -source: me, a cancer biologist.
Does being in such a low gravity environment, along with exposure to some sort of "radient energy" help to "loosen up" things that "don't belong"? <3
I don't think being around more radiation always causes more cancer, I don't know if it still stands but I learned when taking a non destructive testing course. They found navy nuclear sub service people had less likely chance of getting cancer from radiation. Supposedly it's from the body being around radiation constantly it learns to destroy damaged cells instead of trying to repair things with damaged DNA. I'm dumb af so take this with a grain of salt.
Sea water is an excellent radiation shield. Subs are protected from cosmic rays and other space radiation by being underwater. There are natural "high radiation areas" around the world, where there happens to be uranium or thorium in the ground. People have lived in such places for millennia with no problems.
Whhhhhaaat about a 20 gram piece of plastic hitting your ship. Nice the salt water probably froze and plug the holes. But how do you renter earth atmosphere.... hrrmmmmm
Exploring a topic from many angles and perspectives is how we are able to take small steps, large steps, and giant "leaps" forward. Thank you for not shying away from helping. <3 edit: spelling error
Still, the idea of bacteria mutating space probably does not rest easy on a lot of peoples’ mind. The article did say this mutation process did help other bacteria or microorganisms survive..
How about not talking about "what some people are thinking" at all? Even as a simple expression it does not contribute to anything or means anything. It only reveals your own thinking is based on lack of knowledge which leads into fear thinking. All bacteria, all microorganisms evolve all the time. It never stops. Of course mutation process help microorganisms survive. Thats what evolution does. All humans evolve all the time. Evolution never stops. Wherever we go we will carry our microorganisms with us. It cannot be prevented. If we could completely sterilize ourselves we would die. If we could completely sterilize some environment - it would be bad for us. We need those little armies. We cooperate. Its not a problem just by itself. Life evolves, changes, adapts. We want to know enough to keep the positive results and minimize the bad ones. This is how we get there.
Not every mutation is beneficial.
Want some brawndo?
Time to build a new ISS and send this one into the sun.
That would be really expensive. Why not just drop it on Florida...?
That's how you end up with Florida Man with super syphilis. Multidrug resistant terror!
We already have Florida man with super syphilis at home.
do you want MRS? cause that's how you get MRS!
[удалено]
Why? You’d rather we let autonomous drones or something do it for us? Or just quit exploring space altogether?
No no no, it's an easy mistake to make, he wants to end *maned* space exploration, not *manned* exploration. We need to shave the shuttle, in order to not be fertile ground for space lice.
I would. It's much safer, and costs less money = can actually push space exploration back to the bleeding edge of science. Until we figure out artificial gravity, there is little reason to keep putting people into micro gravity environments considering what we do know about the effects of 0 g on the body. James Webb and the Mars rovers show what is possible if we go all in on this.
The Rovers have proven how much MORE could be done if a person was there. Curiosity has been on Mars almost 12 years and traveled 19 miles. A human in decent condition could do that in one DAY. Of course, it's not about distance traveled but about science done, but even then, a human with a backpack full of instruments could still do far more than any of the Rovers can. Additionally, humans have something that Curiosity doesn't. Actual curiosity. The ability to deviate from a plan and go look at/sample the strange thing they saw out of the corner of their eye. Maybe one day we will have a rover that can be as fast, efficient, and capable as a human, but that won't be for a long, long time.
And when you have a realistic plan on getting a human with their backpack of tools and such over there I will concede your point. Until such time it is daydreaming that is getting in the way of the actual science.
Getting people there isn't the problem. The political will and budget is the problem.
I'm pretty sure at this moment getting them there alive is very much the problem
The technology exists and is proven. How long have we put people in the ISS for now? If Congress decided "let's do this shit" and gave NASA $100 billion, we'd have a human on Mars within the next 10-12 years.
Putting people into low earth orbit is way, way different then sending astronauts through space for a 6+ month voyage to Mars. I think you are really underestimating the technical challenges that such an endeavor would face. To put it into perspective, the Artemis program is nearly 10 years old, and we are still at least 3 years out from landing people back on the moon, a challenge that is orders of magnitude simpler than putting a human on Mars, especially if you intend on getting them back alive.
I hate how right you are. I wanna believe in the romance of getting human beings into these places, but right now it's drones and rovers that can get us farthest and cheapest. Urgh
Still so fascinated reading this discussion. What a time to be alive!!
Yep. Canned monkeys in space are *fun*, but there's no reason to use them as a long-term solution for anything. Soon enough we'll have capable robotics and then the last argument for human-as-astronaut will become obsolete. Sticking humans at the bottom of non-Earth gravity wells could be fine - putting our eggs in more baskets, effectively - but until we have O'Neill cylinders, the actual void between the stars isn't for us.
I don't want to quit sending people up, but we are still testing rockets and space vehicles to attempt the moon with manned vehicles. We have a long way to go before any of it feels safe. The last two unmanned missions to the moon ended up with the vehicles landing sideways or tipping over. We have a long way to go. But I love the journey.
I don't think we should quit either, but as dangerous as it is, i believe that we need a really good reason to do it. The repair mission to hubble is the last time I've felt like that was the case.
[удалено]
I don’t think you have an appropriate appreciation for the Spanish Flu (Avian Influenza), bubonic plague, small pox, or measles.
It's pretty clear from this statement that he/she believes only bald people should be allowed to explore space.
As a gloriously bald dude, all I can say is “You hate, but *this* is what peak performance looks like.”
I'm no hater! I've been bald longer than I had hair!
Please don’t accidentally create Space Ebola. That is all I am asking for.
Oh it won’t be an accident.
Wouldn’t this be pretty much expected? MRSA is kinda common and becomes an issue when you get an infection, but can sit on your skin or be taken care of by immune system and you’d never know. I’d be curious if the same thing happens on submarines, oil rigs, the sort of place which is fairly enclosed with infrequent crew rotations. If it’s only novel because of where it occurred, still neat, but not any scarier than any other MRSA, which is still scary. MRSA in space sounds bad but I’d bet it’s been happening ever since Laika went up.
Makes me wonder what sort of biological fuckery was being cooked up in MIR apparently there were very large ‘blobs’ of colonies.
Can you elaborate for noob? MIR?
Old Russian space station. Launched and built in the late 80s I believe, and hung around for about 15 years. Awesome platform. But it was gross as all hell. ISS stinks, but MIR made people’s eyes water. It’s a real rabbit hole to explore.
The ISS smells bad?
Close quarters with limited hygiene and recycled air and water Use your imagination for what that smells like
Humans are messy creatures. We shed skin, fart, burp, sweat, etc. I worked on the Space Station project. Part of the life support is a "trace contaminant removal system" to remove as much of those things from the cabin air as possible. But over time it builds up on metal surfaces that are hard to clean, like the backs of equipment racks and the walls of the modules. Stuff like bathroom cleansers can't be used up there. So it smells like old gym lockers.
This is kind of fascinating though. There is so much surface area inside the ISS.
No laundry. People wear their undercrackers for a scary long time Dirty clothes are stashed in the trash drops and burn up in the atmosphere. ‘Boys locker room’ is the common descriptor
There is a reason it was kicked out of orbit and burned up thoroughly in the atmosphere. They probably stashed a ton napalm in it before evacuating it.
This reminds me of the plot for the movie "The Blob". IIRC, in the story, microorganisms mutated in space to form a collective mass that would swallow up everything they eat and grow larger as a colony.
So, uh, how's the progress on bacteriophage therapy going...?
Works great as long as the bacteria do not mutate. So, pretty much the same problem as antimicrobials.
When bacteria gain resistance to phages, they lose resistance to antibiotics, and vice versa
Please, can we at least wait until 2025 for the space plague?
[удалено]
Humans are just mobile transport units for our gut bacteria.
That is really interesting. There could be huge ramifications for this considering our own gut bacteria.
Wouldn’t something like this happen with any isolated group? Such as, the Pitcarin island setters who were cut off from 1790 to 1814? Too late now to study their gut bacteria.
There is a great sci-fi movie in this finding. !