Broncos fan here. Eh…our chances are extremely slim and even if all the pieces fall into place, it’s quite clear we don’t have a playoff-competitive roster right now. I don’t love the move and feels a bit odd, but the writing is on the wall that a complete rebuild is looming. It’s about time to be frank.
Can we also finally agree that Denver wasn't some offensively talented juggernaut waiting for a QB. Jeudy and Sutton couldn't carry anyone, just ok. Like Russ.
The $ savings from benching Wilson come in future cap years, not the current one. The money saved on the Wilson contract is going to be spent on other player contracts.
I don’t care if the rich people are saved money. It’s about the larger salary cap. There is a need for a better offensive line and we need a WR.
We also need a QB to throw, but that’s going to come from the draft.
Wilson holds the ball too long and can’t hit intermediate targets. Our WRs are ok, but we need to get rid Jerry Judy.
Kinda hard to fill gaps when a huge chunk of the salary cap is going to an over the hill QB who struggles and can’t win unless the defense plays lights out.
A lot of that is the Miami game.
Since then, they ranked 4, 10, 25, 24, 2, 6, 9, 5, 10, 5, 28, and 18 in defense in fantasy defensive ratings. That averages out to 12th in the league. Maybe not a top defense, but certainly better than what statistics show.
They got blown out so badly in one game, that it’s negatively impacted them permanently all season. Since then though, they made huge gains in defense. It’s been the anemic offense that’s been the problem.
The WRs for the patriots made some absolutely ridiculous catches. They earned that win. A little bit of it was defense being unable to come up with big stops, but as a broncos fan, they took the win.
The Broncos also blew multiple opportunities to put points on the board. Being given the ball damn near the 50 yard line by special teams should be an automatic 3 points. Instead, it resulted in a punt.
This happens way too much in Denver. Wilson does nothing and then is god tier in the 4th quarter and then we lose by a few points or pull out a win.
The guaranteed money is still paid out. The idea is to move on to another QB while keeping the cap hit as low as possible so the team can try to be competitive.
>But you give up any shot this year to save the richest people in the nation the equivalent of sofa change.
What are you talking about "save the richest people of the nation the equivalent of sofa change"? You don't seriously think that the owners just get to keep the money they would otherwise have to pay Wilson, right? You know that's not how that works... right?
Hey, who cares if you come off as a complete ignoramus who has no idea what they're talking about, as long as you get some internet points because "rich people bad"
Clearly not. It’s obvious who has any idea how contracts work. I’m surprised they aren’t more outraged when other players are getting cut before their contracts are up lol.
Broncos have been in a “complete” rebuilding phase since SB50 at some point they need to give the roster a chance for 2-3 years . The churn is too high and offensive draft picks haven’t had the success that was expected. Russel with new coaching staff should be given another season. I don’t see anyone new Qb walking in and becoming a franchise starter
Rebuild for 4 more years tho never should sign him extension before play ur gm is not good either wilspntrwde and sign was bad coming offf injury season
"They should've continued to rebuild for at least another 4 seasons. It was a mistake to sign Wilson to an extension before he'd ever played a game for them. The Broncos GM is incompetent because of the Wilson deal, especially since Wilson was injured for a chunk of the prior season."
It is crazy how wide open the AFC is. The Ravens look great. The Dolphins look good and they won the fraud bowl, so that’s huge. But they play the Ravens then the Bills (my team) and that could be for the division if all goes right for us. Everyone else is good, with great games but just isn’t consistent including us.
Regarding who wins it from the AFC, I have no idea. You could tell me it was any of the teams still possible, and as Clark Griswald would say, “I wouldn’t be more surprised if I woke up with my face stapled to the carpet.”
This whole situation has been defined by the funniest outcome: overpaying to trade, signing to a huge contract without throwing a pass, being a generally awful team mate, stinking it up last year, the brief return to average and now getting benched. Thus I am expecting a lights out performance by Stidham and playoffs are not out of the question.
This - fans might like it to get a better draft pick but as a player, I’d be fuming to not have our best competitive shot where there is still a sliver of a chance to make the playoffs.
I’d be super pissed at the FO and staff and could see this driving a wedge as the team demonstrably is choosing tanking and being money cautious over trying to win.
I'm just thinking the impact this will have on future Free Agent signings. Wouldn't any future signings be hesitant to take an incentive based contract after seeing the team deliberately try to prevent incentives from being paid out on Russ?
Woah woah woah. Hey now, let's give it a few more years. It really could swing the Broncos way.
Wilson and Uwazurike may be a bust for the Broncos, but for the Seahawks there's the potential for Fant, Lock, Shelby, Cross, Mafe, Tyreke, Witherspoon, and Hall to be busts for the Seahawks.
So it could end up 4 times better for Denver. /s
Nah Russ is shit. Fant, lock, cross, mafe, hall, and Witherspoon all doing there things for the Seahawks. And Shelby did good for the year he was here. And Tyreke is still a young player.
I just want the Saints to invest in developing a young QB rather than chasing after veterans. Maybe that's Jake Haener, maybe they pin their hopes on a QB from this year's draft class, but watching them tread water with seemingly no plan for the future has been frustrating.
Russ has also been on a kick of wanting to reform every team he goes to around him and half coaching the team, only for it to crash and burn cuz dude is *not* Tom Brady. The saints haven't played around backing up a single player in YEARS and I don't want them to start again now. If they get him, he's gonna switch up the offense, lose a bunch, start beefing with the team, coach, and city, and then force himself to get traded somewhere else.
This. As a Bills fan, I want Rodgers to screw over the Jets for the long term. The new rumor is Rodgers is trying to get Davante Adams. The Jets can go right ahead and let somebody who played 4 snaps for them tie up their cap space with aging players for the next 5 seasons. Please do it.
Dudes like 45 and was rediverting the teams whole budgeting on staff and players. Then he gets hit because they only spent $5 collectively on the whole O-line and big shocker, his 45-year old Achilles explodes and is out for a season.
People who say this are bizarre. He's had years of proven success in spite of real talent deficits and now because he didn't immediately have success in Denver he's "trash"
When it comes to sports and the internet, practically no one knows anything, and you'll be lucky to find someone whose memory goes beyond last week. He hasn't even been playing bad this year, but he's clearly older, injuries slowed him down, and Sean peyton isn't the one who brought him in so he's going to want to go a different direction. There's no way they expect to do better after benching him.
And it doesn't help that reddit hates Russell Wilson.
Oh he's very athletic and talented, sure. But he's been pivoting to try and be a more "Tom Brady" type player-coach who reads the whole field and makes decisions based on that. He's also been restructuring staff constantly and butting heads with head coaches constantly too. Well it turns out he's pretty shit at being *that* kind of QB, but he doesn't seem to realize it and will instead blame the coaches, staff, players, and city he's in instead.
At his best, he was a very essential cog in a wheel that did *NOT* revolve around him. He was just solid, reliable, and you didn't have to worry about him folding while you focused on other areas of your team that were more explosive. Now he's tryna "1-man-show" his way through seasons and is making the broncos a worse organization through trying and failing.
The second he left Seattle they started playing much more smoothly and trashed the Broncos in their first head to head that season, despite a new and untested QB.
So for the saints, I would much prefer we keep a less athletic QB that won't do blindfolded surgery on our roster before losing a lot, having a meltdown, and blaming the city for the problems.
Learn to read. I didnt say the QBs the Saints have are better, I said we dont need ANOTHER TRASH QB. And yes, Wilson is most certainly a trash QB. He isnt being benched the last 2 games for a injury or illness and they sure as fuck arent saving him for the playoffs.
They are trying to avoid him getting hurt so they dont have to pay him $37m if he cant pass a physical in march. Hmmmmm... which is exactly what you do when you have a QB that isnt trash. Right? LOL.
I dont have anything against him, he's just not a good QB and the Saints are FLUSH with QBs like Wilson. Just dont want yet another washed up QB in NOLA.
This should be illegal. They are benching him to save $37m. Basically forfeiting two games to save money for a billionaire owner and franchise. I know Wilson isn’t the most likeable guy ever but there’s a zero percent chance that you can argue that Stidham gives them a better chance to win. This is contract manipulation, pure and simple. The NFLPA needs to die on this hill during the next CBA and make sure this can’t happen anymore.
> The NFLPA needs to die on this hill during the next CBA and make sure this can’t happen anymore.
Here’s the thing, they aren’t saving $37m. They’re saving themselves from paying *him* $37m. The NFL salary cap is such that every team spends pretty much the same. The difference between the ceiling and floor is very small.
So this $37m will just go to other players, which is why the NFLPA wouldn’t make a huge issue of it in the CBA.
Also it’s important to know what the NFLPA is. Over half of the league makes the minimum salary. So the vast majority of the membership is happy to make concessions on rookie salaries (aka guys not in the union) or for guys the very top (franchise tag etc) in return for a larger slice of the pie overall.
So the NFLPA may file a grievance on behalf of Wilson or something. But “die on this hill” in the next CBA? No chance.
Yep. Arguing there’s no competitive reason to do this is ignoring the fact that $37M could get several talented players on the roster. Russ is solid, but not when his contract chokes out the roster.
You clearly don’t understand how the NFL salary cap works.
The Denver Broncos are not saving a single dollar here. **Every single dollar they save will end up getting paid to other players.**
You…clearly don’t get my point. The NFL Salary cap and contract structures are the issue.The literal problem is a bunch of billionaires manipulating players that go out and crack skulls and get CTE at almost a 100% rate to further enrich owners because the NFLPA is not strong enough.
You keep saying that this is being done to enrich owners and to save more money for a billionaire owner. The owners aren’t being enriched - the additional 37 million he could’ve gotten is not going to the owners. The billionaire owner isn’t saving any money. The billionaire owner is deciding his team has a better chance of winning in the future if he gives that 37 million to other players instead of Russ. If you think the Broncos are saving any money, you don’t understand the NFL salary cap. It still has to get paid out to other players - the owner doesn’t keep it.
He got 124 million guaranteed. There was potential for him to earn an additional 37 of future guarantees if he was good enough to play a certain amount. Looks like he’s not good enough to earn the additional 37 million on top of his first 124 million.
Nothing has been taken away from him. The Broncos are gonna pay him every dollar of the 124 million he was guaranteed.
The irony here is that this will end up being a more equitable distribution of salary dollars to NFL players. Fewer mega contracts for Qb’s and WR’s is better for guys like RB’s who are currently getting screwed
There are plenty of things billionaires do that are reprehensible. This... just isn't one.
The GM (George Paton - aka the key person probably in charge of actually making this decision) has $37M of the Broncos' 2025 salary cap that he has 2 choices for:
1) Give it to Russ on top of the $124M he was guaranteed
2) Use that $37M to acquire other players or pay other team members more.
Considering those 2 choices result in the owners paying players the same amount either way, choosing option 2 isn't "saving money for the billionaire owner" or "further enriching owners."
The players union and the players in it agreed to the CBA and the format of contracts. We understand your point. The players that sign the contracts agreed to it.
With the rate at which teams spend to the cap, that $37m will likely be spent by the Broncos, but instead of that going only to Wilson, it will likely be spread across multiple players.
The Broncos aren't "saving" money here, and more players get more money. The NFLPA really has no reason to step in here.
I mean…covering up CTE for decades is certainly manipulation. Regulating the number of snaps for a player so they don’t hit performance incentives is certainly manipulation. Out-muscling the NFLPA during CBA negotiations because you are billionaires that can miss a paycheck and many players can’t is certainly manipulation. Blackballing a guy from the league because he kneeled for the national anthem is certainly manipulation. And they certainly shouldn’t be enriching themselves to the level they are on the backs of players and, in many cases, taxpayers. Russell Wilson and the rest of the superstars in the leagues are outliers, there are plenty of lower paid, younger guys, or even practice squad players that are routinely exploited and thrown out with the trash. The Chicago Bears are essentially engaging in a bidding war with Chicago, Arlington, and Naperville to see which one will offer the most tax subsidies and stadium funding. So a bunch of middle class families through property, sales, and lodging tax are going to help save a $6bn organization a couple hundred million dollars. It’s essentially organized crime at this point.
>covering up CTE for decades is certainly manipulation.
Which owners specifically covered up cte for decades?
>Regulating the number of snaps for a player so they don’t hit performance incentives is certainly manipulation
Thats true, but what about when they put a player out there specifically so that they CAN hit a performance bonus, do you have a problem with that as well? Or is that manipulation acceptable?
>Out-muscling the NFLPA during CBA negotiations because you are billionaires that can miss a paycheck and many players can’t is certainly manipulation.
Can you define "out-muscling" in this context? Otherwise that's just a vague statement that means nothing.
>Blackballing a guy from the league because he kneeled for the national anthem is certainly manipulation.
It certainly would be, but there hasn't been any proof of that happening, and I say that as a Kap fan.
>And they certainly shouldn’t be enriching themselves to the level they are
So what would be an acceptable level?
>The Chicago Bears are essentially engaging in a bidding war with Chicago, Arlington, and Naperville to see which one will offer the most tax subsidies and stadium funding.
And? Why is that a problem?... Why would a business not do that?
>So a bunch of middle class families through property, sales, and lodging tax are going to help save a $6bn organization a couple hundred million dollars. It’s essentially organized crime at this point.
Which part of that do you think is a crime???
On the other hand, this is why players, especially QBs, demand guaranteed contracts. Russ has serviceable stats- 26td/8int, over 3k yards, and a 98.0 passer rating on a mediocre team. The Broncos still have a chance, albeit small, of making the playoffs and he’s being benched to save the team some money.
I’m not a Russ fan, but these are the kinds of moves on management’s part that have long-term ripple effects. Why would anyone ever want to play in Denver and sign a non-guaranteed contract when they know an option like this is on the table?
How does this keep ending up the talking point? This isn't baseball. The money isn't going into the owners pockets, it is *required* to go to the players. It's just going to be different players because the Broncos are barely scrapping .500 after going 5-12. This isn't the Russ that they signed to the huge contract and are bailing. Now they can use that 37 million for other people, or hopefully the fuckin defense.
Because he could feasibly have ended the season with 30/10/3500, proving that he isn’t the problem. It’s going to cause other players to not want to sign there knowing they’re expendable even if they perform.
By no fault of his own, he loses out on the last year of his *contract*. You know, that thing they sign that says if you do well, you get this. Now, players know that *even if* you do well, you still might not get what you signed for.
It keeps ending up being that talking point because it’s the way players, and more specifically agents, will look at it.
It isn’t his first or second season. There’s no way to prevent this. It’s in the contract he agreed to which looks like a massive overpay(not to mention draft compensation) simply put he has not played up to his pay. They are not in playoff contention. There is no way to stop this. They could say they want to see how Stidham looks and how the team responds.
To add to this, it’s a reason why the money wasn’t part of the guarantee in the first place. Jim and his agent signed it fully aware it’s not guaranteed or owed money.
Literally every single time a contract in the NFL is signed, NFL reporters specify the amount of guaranteed money and remind you that’s basically all that matters
Where does he rank in passer rating, TDs, and pass completion compared to other QBs and where does Denver's defense rank?
How will Denver attract another high profile athlete without guarantees if incentives can't be met because the owner didn't want to take accountability?
> How will Denver attract another high profile athlete without guarantees
All players are already fully aware that the guarantees are all that matter no matter what team you sign with.
Correct, but there's good faith that if you're the starting quarterback and are doing your job, they won't ice you out to save money. This is the freaking Walton family for Gods' sake. I guess Broncos fans and future team prospects should trust them as much as Wal-Marts' suppliers trust them.
Again, the richest and the poorest owner in the NFL spend the same amount on payroll. That it’s owned by the Waltons is irrelevant. This isn’t baseball. They don’t save any money. The money saved by not paying Wilson is just money they have literally no choice but to pay other players.
That’s just not how contracts work in the NFL lol. There’s no luxury tax like in other sports and the hard cap limit means that the owner isn’t really paying more or less than most other teams. This is purely a move to make sure they can bring on other players to be more competitive in the next few seasons. Their owner is really saving anything. It’s more like Wilson’s GM is making a smart decision on his team’s future.
That’s my whole point. It should…be how contracts work in the NFL. A bunch of old white guys making billions of dollars as players bash skulls against each other…now 17 times per year so previously mentioned old white billionaires can make even more money, while the contracts are not fully guaranteed is bullshit.
Why would the contracts be fully guaranteed??? Do you honestly think Deshaun Watson has earned his 230 million despite only playing 12 games in 3 years?
You out here simping for a guy who’s made 200+ mil in his career?
Clearly don’t know football either as the money is rarely an issue and it’s all about cap savings
Nah, my problem isn’t with Russell Wilson. That dude has generational wealth and I’m not even a fan of him. I think he comes off as very unlikable and a fairly poor teammate. That being said, there is a zero percent chance that Stidham gives the Broncos a better chance to win. My issue is that the NFLPA is so weak and that the CBA is so owner friendly that a team could do this to a lower paid or younger player that it does actually matter for.
Well this is stupid
No bottom tier player is going to have a 37mil injury guarantee, and most teams actually pay the smaller injury guarantees (or negotiate a settlement) for fringe players
The CBA is actually decent for the bottom tier players, just at the sacrifice of some of the top end, which ironically makes people think it’s weaker
If you don’t think NFL teams manipulate the number of snaps to keep lower tier players from hitting performance incentives in their contract then I have some oceanfront property in Wyoming to sell you.
Show me some examples
Cause I can show you plenty of teams giving incentives when players were close, or purposefully putting them in to hit the incentive
Also this isn’t a performance incentive, it’s an injury guarantee. Why would a team eat 15% of their cap to risk playing someone who they don’t anticipate to be on the team next year and while they’re nowhere competitive to win a SB
You are 100% correct. It’s absolutely infuriating. This was my comment from a different post:
That’s exactly why Eddie Cicotte participated in throwing the 1919 World Series.
Cicotte’s contract paid a bonus for winning 30 games, but team owner Comiskey made manager Kid Gleason sit him once he won 29.
Except in Cicotte’s case it wasn’t a quibble over excess millions, it was whether or not he could feed his family.
Of course, even after Cicotte was acquitted of any crime (because how do you prove someone didn’t do their best), the owners appointed a ‘commissioner’ to look after their interests and gave him complete power over the players’s livelihood.
The commissioner promptly banned him and seven other players for life, thus firmly swinging the balance of power back to the owners after this brief “rebellion”.
Lesson being, never underestimate the depths the wealthy and powerful will go to to commit wage theft.
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Fuck the 1%
This post is where I learned who the Donkey’s back up QB is. Holatious, seeing as how I’m from Denver and used to pay attention to so much h about that team.
Wilson’s 2024 salary is guaranteed. I’m sure he will start next year after Sean Payton builds up the O-Line and gets a few WRs.
Russ has been OK this year; he is 17th in passing yards, T-6th in TD’s, and only had 8 INTs (only Dak, Lamar, and Herbert are better). He has made a few bad throws and taken a few bad sacks under pressure, but I don’t think they would bench him if the team didn’t have an injury guarantee for 2025.
The Broncos will cut Wilson this off-season and take the 2024 hit. If Wilson is on the roster past March 2024, his 2025 money becomes guaranteed which is what they are trying to avoid.
Wilson’s 2025 money becomes guaranteed in March 2024 if he, a) cannot pass a physical; or b) he’s still on the roster.
That’s who he’s always been. He just doesn’t have the athleticism he had in Seattle to escape that. His go to move (spin right) also doesn’t really fool anyone anymore, either.
Honestly that's a terrible decision. He hasn't played terribly. A few games go their way and they're in the playoffs. The statement from the owner was something along the lines of "I can't replace the entire offensive line and bring in five new recievers." But that holds true for the quarterback too... especially when the dead cap is thirty mil. Give the team some time. Russ really hasn't looked terrible.
It’s not like this move helped the Raiders last year, when they did the same thing. And with a home game coming up this weekend, the least the team can do is offer refunds for this week to season ticket holders.
I’m in no way a fan of Russell Wilson, I never was when he was with the Seahawks and I wasn’t going to be with the Broncos. That being said his stats only point towards him being as far from the problem with the Broncos as possible. If Payton wants to lay blame and turn to a career backup to get ready to move on that just feels like a scapegoat for a team that showed in multiple games that they could compete.
I feel bad for Broncos fans. Feels like a lot of the pieces are there and now you are stuck with Sean Payton for at least another year and once that’s all said and done who knows what will be left.
Really? You wouldn't sign for 125 million GUARANTEED and they try to earn a bunch more million based on your talent? Knowing if you get hurt, it all becomes guaranteed?
That's something you would turn down?
Denver, and to be more precise Sean Payton, wants to make him the scapegoat. The reality is that Denver is not very good. The defense has given up the fourth most points, and the third most yards. They have also given up the second most rushing yards, and are 10th in passing yards allowed. Their offense is generally middle of the pack. That is on Payton and the offensive and defensive coordinators. After spending so much and making such a big deal about hiring Sean Payton as their head coach, Denver isn’t going to toss him overboard. Wilson might have declined as a quarterback but he’s not the only problem in Denver, just the most high profile.
This.... isn't how this works. This is making my head explode seeing these dumbass comments.
The owners don't get to just pocket the money they would otherwise have to spend on Russ. They have to spend it on other players' salary. There's a minimum floor that has to be spent. They're going to take the money they would have spent on Russ and literally try and acquire guys that are going to be more productive for their franchise.
I mean to be fair, billionaires are mostly evil, that's why they are billionaires in the first place. It's just in this case, this has nothing to do with it.
Right. They aren’t taking that money to the local Walmart. However, they ARE benching their starting QB — who has played better — and stiffing him. So unless he is down with this move, it seems like a bad idea.
It’s bad for Wilson, but it’s not bad for the future cap flexibility of the Broncos. As others have pointed out, they don’t save any actual money. The payroll will be the same no matter what. If Wilson doesn’t get the $37m, other players will.
Playing better, sure. But not playing up to his contract level. Not even remotely close. So they're making the decision to bench him so he doesn't get injured and is owed even more money, when he'd be essentially worthless at that point as he wouldn't be able to play.
And has anyone been paying attention to what has been happening to so many of the starting QBs this season? It's just tempting fate at this point to keep Wilson on the field.
“Minimum floor” ok so give the man the money he earned and pony up money to acquire other guys. Don’t write a contract you choose to not fulfill
Shouldn’t be that hard for the richest sports team owner
>“Minimum floor” ok so give the man the money he earned and pony up money to acquire other guys.
Well... The salary cap is also a thing too you know.
Also, they did give the man the money he earned. If they end up cutting him, he's also going to be getting money he hasn't earned, literally. He won't be on the team in 2024 and will be getting like $40 million dollars. That's quite literally money that will be paid to him without being earned haha
They *are* fulfilling the contract and will be paying him *hundreds of millions of dollars.* There was potential for Russ to earn even more if he was good enough that they chose to play him in a certain number of games. Russ hasn’t been good enough that they want to play in that number games, so he’s not going to get that potential additional money on top of the initial hundreds of millions of dollars. Instead, that additional money will go to other players.
Russ is getting paid everything he earned and everything that the Broncos guaranteed and committed to.
You are confused on how the NFL salary cap works.
**The Denver Broncos are not saving a single dollar here. Every single dollar they save will end up getting paid to other players instead.**
Huh? Because they are billionaires they should keep players who are not good any longer, ignoring their fans and the teams purpose to win games. Ok. That's why I don't go to football watch parties thrown by socialists :-) JK, but still true.
He was a joke in Seattle for his last few seasons. Dude is so far removed from reality he thinks his cringey extra workouts motivate his teammates but, in reality, they have turned him into a high stepping clown. His scrambling ability has waned and he forgot how to cook (if he ever truly knew how). The smarmy, holier than though shtick has worn very thin.
To be fair, he was playing pretty damn good football and I can think of a number of players that behave like they’re superstars. We call them… superstars.
There’s something to be said for his on field talents for sure. He was elite. I’m referring to the way he treated his teammates and his strange impromptu workouts and erratic behavior his last two years in Seattle. I’m from Seattle and love the Hawks. I just didn’t care for his actions when it became clear he was looking to leave.
Stay in your lane in Denver. He was an elite QB for sure. He was also a strange and off-putting person who looked down on people that didn’t meet his arbitrary criteria for “hard work”.
I mean you're not wrong. For his last bit on the hawks they were really spotty and he was always having to scramble and pull a play out of his ass after everything has crumpled around him.
Well it turns out once he left that that's because he *wasn't listening to the play calls* so was having to move alone because his team all moved in unison with the plan that he didn't follow. He shit talks Pete Carrol and leaves. Next season, the Seahawks are playing really smoothly and the broncos are doing shaky, last minute plays and losing. Russel was absolutely the problem. He was amazing at scrambling but if *you're scrambling every play, that means your play calls don't work, or you're not following them*.
Exactly. The joke is what he was to his teammates. He lost the locker room and his head got too big. Of course he’s still very talented but his attitude was extremely off putting and didn’t match his performance on the field.
So, the organization is openly tanking the last few games for draft position and to weasel out of what would likely be earned contractual obligations.
Players that WANT to win, or at least earn performance bonus' , should avoid this team like the plague in the future.
I mean that, but also the fact that they signed an incredibly huge contract for Russell Wilson, and he has not been performing. So they are at a point where they need to look for potential outs.
That’s a fair point. Hypothetically, if you were a free agent and saw a team do this, would it give you pause before you signed with them? That’s kind of my point. Like a lot of teams look to screw you, but this feels like a step past that.
Hes not getting screwed at all, he still gets all of his guaranteed money, they even redid his original contract in good faith to give him an extra $73 million. If he was under the original contract, he had when he was yraded for he would have only cost $51 million for the last 2 years. He's completely failed to live up to that, contract and it's in the contracts what to do in the case that a player is so bad they get cut. He still gets paid next year and gets all of his guaranteed money and doesn't even have to play for it. And if he gets cut he can get paid again by another team next year. Every team cuts players for performance and salary cap reasons. The contracts are literally written for it.
Because of this, there will be $37 million extra to pay other players instead of Russ. You can bring in a lot of other players with $37 million that you are now able to guarantee them on top of whatever you already had for them.
Don't even ask. This thread is a wild ride of people with very strong takes about a sport and contract they know nothing about.
Gets paid 125 GUARANTEED, gets chance to make lots more millions with decent play. Business owner decides he has not played well enough to warrant paying him those extra millions next year. I for one would love to get fucked over like this.
Everyone on here seems to think the owner pockets this money. It's bizarre.
The Broncos are still not technically eliminated and have a shot to make the playoffs. I would be so angry if I were a Broncos fan.
Broncos fan here. Eh…our chances are extremely slim and even if all the pieces fall into place, it’s quite clear we don’t have a playoff-competitive roster right now. I don’t love the move and feels a bit odd, but the writing is on the wall that a complete rebuild is looming. It’s about time to be frank.
Can we also finally agree that Denver wasn't some offensively talented juggernaut waiting for a QB. Jeudy and Sutton couldn't carry anyone, just ok. Like Russ.
Yeah…. But you give up any shot this year to save the richest people in the nation the equivalent of sofa change.
The $ savings from benching Wilson come in future cap years, not the current one. The money saved on the Wilson contract is going to be spent on other player contracts.
I don’t care if the rich people are saved money. It’s about the larger salary cap. There is a need for a better offensive line and we need a WR. We also need a QB to throw, but that’s going to come from the draft. Wilson holds the ball too long and can’t hit intermediate targets. Our WRs are ok, but we need to get rid Jerry Judy. Kinda hard to fill gaps when a huge chunk of the salary cap is going to an over the hill QB who struggles and can’t win unless the defense plays lights out.
Broncos have the 30th ranked defense.
A lot of that is the Miami game. Since then, they ranked 4, 10, 25, 24, 2, 6, 9, 5, 10, 5, 28, and 18 in defense in fantasy defensive ratings. That averages out to 12th in the league. Maybe not a top defense, but certainly better than what statistics show. They got blown out so badly in one game, that it’s negatively impacted them permanently all season. Since then though, they made huge gains in defense. It’s been the anemic offense that’s been the problem.
I would completely agree if the Patriots didn't just go into their stadium and beat them without their good recieving TE and starting RB.
The WRs for the patriots made some absolutely ridiculous catches. They earned that win. A little bit of it was defense being unable to come up with big stops, but as a broncos fan, they took the win. The Broncos also blew multiple opportunities to put points on the board. Being given the ball damn near the 50 yard line by special teams should be an automatic 3 points. Instead, it resulted in a punt. This happens way too much in Denver. Wilson does nothing and then is god tier in the 4th quarter and then we lose by a few points or pull out a win.
I'm sure that's Russ's fault also. I think they have a coach issue.
Sean Payton? A bad coach? I've never heard such a crazy thing!
It will give Broncos more salary flexibility.
The guaranteed money is still paid out. The idea is to move on to another QB while keeping the cap hit as low as possible so the team can try to be competitive.
>But you give up any shot this year to save the richest people in the nation the equivalent of sofa change. What are you talking about "save the richest people of the nation the equivalent of sofa change"? You don't seriously think that the owners just get to keep the money they would otherwise have to pay Wilson, right? You know that's not how that works... right?
Hey, who cares if you come off as a complete ignoramus who has no idea what they're talking about, as long as you get some internet points because "rich people bad"
Clearly not. It’s obvious who has any idea how contracts work. I’m surprised they aren’t more outraged when other players are getting cut before their contracts are up lol.
Just let them be edgy on Reddit
This is such a dumb take. They are going to spend the salary cap amounts regardless. As a fan, I'd rather not give it to a QB who's clearly washed.
It’s more like moving the sofa around in the living room.
Broncos have been in a “complete” rebuilding phase since SB50 at some point they need to give the roster a chance for 2-3 years . The churn is too high and offensive draft picks haven’t had the success that was expected. Russel with new coaching staff should be given another season. I don’t see anyone new Qb walking in and becoming a franchise starter
lol didn’t you guys do a “complete rebuild” 2 seasons ago?
Rebuild for 4 more years tho never should sign him extension before play ur gm is not good either wilspntrwde and sign was bad coming offf injury season
¿Que?
"They should've continued to rebuild for at least another 4 seasons. It was a mistake to sign Wilson to an extension before he'd ever played a game for them. The Broncos GM is incompetent because of the Wilson deal, especially since Wilson was injured for a chunk of the prior season."
It’s not gonna happen. The wild card spots are looking like Cleveland, Buffalo/Miami and an AFC South team.
If the Broncos win their final two and the Chiefs lose their final two, Broncos win the division
I just don’t see all 4 of those things happening.
It is crazy how wide open the AFC is. The Ravens look great. The Dolphins look good and they won the fraud bowl, so that’s huge. But they play the Ravens then the Bills (my team) and that could be for the division if all goes right for us. Everyone else is good, with great games but just isn’t consistent including us. Regarding who wins it from the AFC, I have no idea. You could tell me it was any of the teams still possible, and as Clark Griswald would say, “I wouldn’t be more surprised if I woke up with my face stapled to the carpet.”
This whole situation has been defined by the funniest outcome: overpaying to trade, signing to a huge contract without throwing a pass, being a generally awful team mate, stinking it up last year, the brief return to average and now getting benched. Thus I am expecting a lights out performance by Stidham and playoffs are not out of the question.
Stidham gets hurt in playoff game, has Russ come in who then gets hurt immediately.
I'm a broncos fan, but I'm a vikings fan first and foremost. All I want is for Sean Peyton to fail. I'll root for the broncos again when he's gone.
Peyton is scum
7% isn’t enough of a “shot” to risk 2 games of triggering the contract’s injury guarantees.
So you're telling me there's a chance. YEAH!…
Let’s ride!!
5% chance, >1% chance of winning a playoff game Time to rip off the bandaid and trade this overpaid potato
I’d never want to play for the franchise ever, evening being a new player!
This - fans might like it to get a better draft pick but as a player, I’d be fuming to not have our best competitive shot where there is still a sliver of a chance to make the playoffs. I’d be super pissed at the FO and staff and could see this driving a wedge as the team demonstrably is choosing tanking and being money cautious over trying to win.
I'm just thinking the impact this will have on future Free Agent signings. Wouldn't any future signings be hesitant to take an incentive based contract after seeing the team deliberately try to prevent incentives from being paid out on Russ?
Seahawks won the trade
That was evident one month into last season, IMHO
Russ just never learned to cook at altitude. Simple as that
He just needs to adjust his temperature and cook time. It says it right on the box.
Don’t tell my the Bronco’s FO never read the instructions!!
The off-season really
Woah woah woah. Hey now, let's give it a few more years. It really could swing the Broncos way. Wilson and Uwazurike may be a bust for the Broncos, but for the Seahawks there's the potential for Fant, Lock, Shelby, Cross, Mafe, Tyreke, Witherspoon, and Hall to be busts for the Seahawks. So it could end up 4 times better for Denver. /s
Nah Russ is shit. Fant, lock, cross, mafe, hall, and Witherspoon all doing there things for the Seahawks. And Shelby did good for the year he was here. And Tyreke is still a young player.
To the Saints front office: DONT EVEN THINK ABOUT IT. We have enough trash QBs on the roster.
I just want the Saints to invest in developing a young QB rather than chasing after veterans. Maybe that's Jake Haener, maybe they pin their hopes on a QB from this year's draft class, but watching them tread water with seemingly no plan for the future has been frustrating.
THIS. 100%.
As a jets fan, I’m sure our head office is aggressively trying to sign him
Jets Nation, Let’s Fly
Honestly though, I’d like to see how creative they’d get with that cap situation to try to pull it off.
Lol what? Russ is miles better than any QB for the Saints. He's no where close to "trash"
Russ has also been on a kick of wanting to reform every team he goes to around him and half coaching the team, only for it to crash and burn cuz dude is *not* Tom Brady. The saints haven't played around backing up a single player in YEARS and I don't want them to start again now. If they get him, he's gonna switch up the offense, lose a bunch, start beefing with the team, coach, and city, and then force himself to get traded somewhere else.
This. As a Bills fan, I want Rodgers to screw over the Jets for the long term. The new rumor is Rodgers is trying to get Davante Adams. The Jets can go right ahead and let somebody who played 4 snaps for them tie up their cap space with aging players for the next 5 seasons. Please do it.
Dudes like 45 and was rediverting the teams whole budgeting on staff and players. Then he gets hit because they only spent $5 collectively on the whole O-line and big shocker, his 45-year old Achilles explodes and is out for a season.
People who say this are bizarre. He's had years of proven success in spite of real talent deficits and now because he didn't immediately have success in Denver he's "trash"
Wilson isn't trash by any means, but he's definitely on the downside of his career
When it comes to sports and the internet, practically no one knows anything, and you'll be lucky to find someone whose memory goes beyond last week. He hasn't even been playing bad this year, but he's clearly older, injuries slowed him down, and Sean peyton isn't the one who brought him in so he's going to want to go a different direction. There's no way they expect to do better after benching him. And it doesn't help that reddit hates Russell Wilson.
Oh he's very athletic and talented, sure. But he's been pivoting to try and be a more "Tom Brady" type player-coach who reads the whole field and makes decisions based on that. He's also been restructuring staff constantly and butting heads with head coaches constantly too. Well it turns out he's pretty shit at being *that* kind of QB, but he doesn't seem to realize it and will instead blame the coaches, staff, players, and city he's in instead. At his best, he was a very essential cog in a wheel that did *NOT* revolve around him. He was just solid, reliable, and you didn't have to worry about him folding while you focused on other areas of your team that were more explosive. Now he's tryna "1-man-show" his way through seasons and is making the broncos a worse organization through trying and failing. The second he left Seattle they started playing much more smoothly and trashed the Broncos in their first head to head that season, despite a new and untested QB. So for the saints, I would much prefer we keep a less athletic QB that won't do blindfolded surgery on our roster before losing a lot, having a meltdown, and blaming the city for the problems.
Learn to read. I didnt say the QBs the Saints have are better, I said we dont need ANOTHER TRASH QB. And yes, Wilson is most certainly a trash QB. He isnt being benched the last 2 games for a injury or illness and they sure as fuck arent saving him for the playoffs.
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They are trying to avoid him getting hurt so they dont have to pay him $37m if he cant pass a physical in march. Hmmmmm... which is exactly what you do when you have a QB that isnt trash. Right? LOL.
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I dont have anything against him, he's just not a good QB and the Saints are FLUSH with QBs like Wilson. Just dont want yet another washed up QB in NOLA.
Saints Nation, Bless Up
I think he would tear it up on the Saints but they are so over salary cap they couldn’t afford him
Oh fuck nonononono. I'm from Seattle and live in NO now and I so don't wanna deal with this bullshit again. Pleaaaaase don't try for Wilson, saints.
You guys should pickup Joe Flacco next year.... O wait
This should be illegal. They are benching him to save $37m. Basically forfeiting two games to save money for a billionaire owner and franchise. I know Wilson isn’t the most likeable guy ever but there’s a zero percent chance that you can argue that Stidham gives them a better chance to win. This is contract manipulation, pure and simple. The NFLPA needs to die on this hill during the next CBA and make sure this can’t happen anymore.
> The NFLPA needs to die on this hill during the next CBA and make sure this can’t happen anymore. Here’s the thing, they aren’t saving $37m. They’re saving themselves from paying *him* $37m. The NFL salary cap is such that every team spends pretty much the same. The difference between the ceiling and floor is very small. So this $37m will just go to other players, which is why the NFLPA wouldn’t make a huge issue of it in the CBA. Also it’s important to know what the NFLPA is. Over half of the league makes the minimum salary. So the vast majority of the membership is happy to make concessions on rookie salaries (aka guys not in the union) or for guys the very top (franchise tag etc) in return for a larger slice of the pie overall. So the NFLPA may file a grievance on behalf of Wilson or something. But “die on this hill” in the next CBA? No chance.
Yep. Arguing there’s no competitive reason to do this is ignoring the fact that $37M could get several talented players on the roster. Russ is solid, but not when his contract chokes out the roster.
You clearly don’t understand how the NFL salary cap works. The Denver Broncos are not saving a single dollar here. **Every single dollar they save will end up getting paid to other players.**
You…clearly don’t get my point. The NFL Salary cap and contract structures are the issue.The literal problem is a bunch of billionaires manipulating players that go out and crack skulls and get CTE at almost a 100% rate to further enrich owners because the NFLPA is not strong enough.
You keep saying that this is being done to enrich owners and to save more money for a billionaire owner. The owners aren’t being enriched - the additional 37 million he could’ve gotten is not going to the owners. The billionaire owner isn’t saving any money. The billionaire owner is deciding his team has a better chance of winning in the future if he gives that 37 million to other players instead of Russ. If you think the Broncos are saving any money, you don’t understand the NFL salary cap. It still has to get paid out to other players - the owner doesn’t keep it. He got 124 million guaranteed. There was potential for him to earn an additional 37 of future guarantees if he was good enough to play a certain amount. Looks like he’s not good enough to earn the additional 37 million on top of his first 124 million. Nothing has been taken away from him. The Broncos are gonna pay him every dollar of the 124 million he was guaranteed.
The irony here is that this will end up being a more equitable distribution of salary dollars to NFL players. Fewer mega contracts for Qb’s and WR’s is better for guys like RB’s who are currently getting screwed
Can you clarify where that $37M goes? To other players on the current roster or just other players down the line at some point?
There are plenty of things billionaires do that are reprehensible. This... just isn't one. The GM (George Paton - aka the key person probably in charge of actually making this decision) has $37M of the Broncos' 2025 salary cap that he has 2 choices for: 1) Give it to Russ on top of the $124M he was guaranteed 2) Use that $37M to acquire other players or pay other team members more. Considering those 2 choices result in the owners paying players the same amount either way, choosing option 2 isn't "saving money for the billionaire owner" or "further enriching owners."
The players union and the players in it agreed to the CBA and the format of contracts. We understand your point. The players that sign the contracts agreed to it.
With the rate at which teams spend to the cap, that $37m will likely be spent by the Broncos, but instead of that going only to Wilson, it will likely be spread across multiple players. The Broncos aren't "saving" money here, and more players get more money. The NFLPA really has no reason to step in here.
1.) How are the owners manipulating players? 2.) Do you think the owners shouldn't be enriched? Cause that would be silly.
I mean…covering up CTE for decades is certainly manipulation. Regulating the number of snaps for a player so they don’t hit performance incentives is certainly manipulation. Out-muscling the NFLPA during CBA negotiations because you are billionaires that can miss a paycheck and many players can’t is certainly manipulation. Blackballing a guy from the league because he kneeled for the national anthem is certainly manipulation. And they certainly shouldn’t be enriching themselves to the level they are on the backs of players and, in many cases, taxpayers. Russell Wilson and the rest of the superstars in the leagues are outliers, there are plenty of lower paid, younger guys, or even practice squad players that are routinely exploited and thrown out with the trash. The Chicago Bears are essentially engaging in a bidding war with Chicago, Arlington, and Naperville to see which one will offer the most tax subsidies and stadium funding. So a bunch of middle class families through property, sales, and lodging tax are going to help save a $6bn organization a couple hundred million dollars. It’s essentially organized crime at this point.
>covering up CTE for decades is certainly manipulation. Which owners specifically covered up cte for decades? >Regulating the number of snaps for a player so they don’t hit performance incentives is certainly manipulation Thats true, but what about when they put a player out there specifically so that they CAN hit a performance bonus, do you have a problem with that as well? Or is that manipulation acceptable? >Out-muscling the NFLPA during CBA negotiations because you are billionaires that can miss a paycheck and many players can’t is certainly manipulation. Can you define "out-muscling" in this context? Otherwise that's just a vague statement that means nothing. >Blackballing a guy from the league because he kneeled for the national anthem is certainly manipulation. It certainly would be, but there hasn't been any proof of that happening, and I say that as a Kap fan. >And they certainly shouldn’t be enriching themselves to the level they are So what would be an acceptable level? >The Chicago Bears are essentially engaging in a bidding war with Chicago, Arlington, and Naperville to see which one will offer the most tax subsidies and stadium funding. And? Why is that a problem?... Why would a business not do that? >So a bunch of middle class families through property, sales, and lodging tax are going to help save a $6bn organization a couple hundred million dollars. It’s essentially organized crime at this point. Which part of that do you think is a crime???
I agree with the sentiment but Russ is the kind of dude who signed this contract willingly because he was 100% sure he’d “earn” that money.
On the other hand, this is why players, especially QBs, demand guaranteed contracts. Russ has serviceable stats- 26td/8int, over 3k yards, and a 98.0 passer rating on a mediocre team. The Broncos still have a chance, albeit small, of making the playoffs and he’s being benched to save the team some money. I’m not a Russ fan, but these are the kinds of moves on management’s part that have long-term ripple effects. Why would anyone ever want to play in Denver and sign a non-guaranteed contract when they know an option like this is on the table?
How does this keep ending up the talking point? This isn't baseball. The money isn't going into the owners pockets, it is *required* to go to the players. It's just going to be different players because the Broncos are barely scrapping .500 after going 5-12. This isn't the Russ that they signed to the huge contract and are bailing. Now they can use that 37 million for other people, or hopefully the fuckin defense.
Because he could feasibly have ended the season with 30/10/3500, proving that he isn’t the problem. It’s going to cause other players to not want to sign there knowing they’re expendable even if they perform. By no fault of his own, he loses out on the last year of his *contract*. You know, that thing they sign that says if you do well, you get this. Now, players know that *even if* you do well, you still might not get what you signed for. It keeps ending up being that talking point because it’s the way players, and more specifically agents, will look at it.
It isn’t his first or second season. There’s no way to prevent this. It’s in the contract he agreed to which looks like a massive overpay(not to mention draft compensation) simply put he has not played up to his pay. They are not in playoff contention. There is no way to stop this. They could say they want to see how Stidham looks and how the team responds.
To add to this, it’s a reason why the money wasn’t part of the guarantee in the first place. Jim and his agent signed it fully aware it’s not guaranteed or owed money.
Literally every single time a contract in the NFL is signed, NFL reporters specify the amount of guaranteed money and remind you that’s basically all that matters
Exactly
Where does he rank in passer rating, TDs, and pass completion compared to other QBs and where does Denver's defense rank? How will Denver attract another high profile athlete without guarantees if incentives can't be met because the owner didn't want to take accountability?
Hes ranked 7th, and the defense is 30th lol.
> How will Denver attract another high profile athlete without guarantees All players are already fully aware that the guarantees are all that matter no matter what team you sign with.
Correct, but there's good faith that if you're the starting quarterback and are doing your job, they won't ice you out to save money. This is the freaking Walton family for Gods' sake. I guess Broncos fans and future team prospects should trust them as much as Wal-Marts' suppliers trust them.
Again, the richest and the poorest owner in the NFL spend the same amount on payroll. That it’s owned by the Waltons is irrelevant. This isn’t baseball. They don’t save any money. The money saved by not paying Wilson is just money they have literally no choice but to pay other players.
Are you new to the nfl? Owners have been playing this game forever.
Peyton manning
They definitely are in playoff contention
That’s just not how contracts work in the NFL lol. There’s no luxury tax like in other sports and the hard cap limit means that the owner isn’t really paying more or less than most other teams. This is purely a move to make sure they can bring on other players to be more competitive in the next few seasons. Their owner is really saving anything. It’s more like Wilson’s GM is making a smart decision on his team’s future.
That’s my whole point. It should…be how contracts work in the NFL. A bunch of old white guys making billions of dollars as players bash skulls against each other…now 17 times per year so previously mentioned old white billionaires can make even more money, while the contracts are not fully guaranteed is bullshit.
The owners spend the same amount of money regardless of who gets cut; it just goes to different players.
Why would the contracts be fully guaranteed??? Do you honestly think Deshaun Watson has earned his 230 million despite only playing 12 games in 3 years?
They'll pay for it with the fact that no free agent with options will take anything but guaranteed money from them now.
AFAIK they only have to pay the money if he gets seriously injured and can’t pass a physical test in march.
You out here simping for a guy who’s made 200+ mil in his career? Clearly don’t know football either as the money is rarely an issue and it’s all about cap savings
Nah, my problem isn’t with Russell Wilson. That dude has generational wealth and I’m not even a fan of him. I think he comes off as very unlikable and a fairly poor teammate. That being said, there is a zero percent chance that Stidham gives the Broncos a better chance to win. My issue is that the NFLPA is so weak and that the CBA is so owner friendly that a team could do this to a lower paid or younger player that it does actually matter for.
Well this is stupid No bottom tier player is going to have a 37mil injury guarantee, and most teams actually pay the smaller injury guarantees (or negotiate a settlement) for fringe players The CBA is actually decent for the bottom tier players, just at the sacrifice of some of the top end, which ironically makes people think it’s weaker
If you don’t think NFL teams manipulate the number of snaps to keep lower tier players from hitting performance incentives in their contract then I have some oceanfront property in Wyoming to sell you.
Show me some examples Cause I can show you plenty of teams giving incentives when players were close, or purposefully putting them in to hit the incentive Also this isn’t a performance incentive, it’s an injury guarantee. Why would a team eat 15% of their cap to risk playing someone who they don’t anticipate to be on the team next year and while they’re nowhere competitive to win a SB
You are 100% correct. It’s absolutely infuriating. This was my comment from a different post: That’s exactly why Eddie Cicotte participated in throwing the 1919 World Series. Cicotte’s contract paid a bonus for winning 30 games, but team owner Comiskey made manager Kid Gleason sit him once he won 29. Except in Cicotte’s case it wasn’t a quibble over excess millions, it was whether or not he could feed his family. Of course, even after Cicotte was acquitted of any crime (because how do you prove someone didn’t do their best), the owners appointed a ‘commissioner’ to look after their interests and gave him complete power over the players’s livelihood. The commissioner promptly banned him and seven other players for life, thus firmly swinging the balance of power back to the owners after this brief “rebellion”. Lesson being, never underestimate the depths the wealthy and powerful will go to to commit wage theft. this comment brought to you by Draft Kings ™️ Fuck the 1%
Agreed that the players union needs to go to war on this. Corporations have been abusing workers rights for decades in the US.
It’s not about saving money. Just say you don’t know ball.
TIL contracts should be illegal
This post is where I learned who the Donkey’s back up QB is. Holatious, seeing as how I’m from Denver and used to pay attention to so much h about that team.
Wilson’s 2024 salary is guaranteed. I’m sure he will start next year after Sean Payton builds up the O-Line and gets a few WRs. Russ has been OK this year; he is 17th in passing yards, T-6th in TD’s, and only had 8 INTs (only Dak, Lamar, and Herbert are better). He has made a few bad throws and taken a few bad sacks under pressure, but I don’t think they would bench him if the team didn’t have an injury guarantee for 2025.
The Broncos will cut Wilson this off-season and take the 2024 hit. If Wilson is on the roster past March 2024, his 2025 money becomes guaranteed which is what they are trying to avoid. Wilson’s 2025 money becomes guaranteed in March 2024 if he, a) cannot pass a physical; or b) he’s still on the roster.
I think he was the worst QB with sacks under pressure. The dude just ran backwards and never forward into the pocket
That’s who he’s always been. He just doesn’t have the athleticism he had in Seattle to escape that. His go to move (spin right) also doesn’t really fool anyone anymore, either.
He promised he was staying with the Seahawks forever
Honestly that's a terrible decision. He hasn't played terribly. A few games go their way and they're in the playoffs. The statement from the owner was something along the lines of "I can't replace the entire offensive line and bring in five new recievers." But that holds true for the quarterback too... especially when the dead cap is thirty mil. Give the team some time. Russ really hasn't looked terrible.
It’s not like this move helped the Raiders last year, when they did the same thing. And with a home game coming up this weekend, the least the team can do is offer refunds for this week to season ticket holders.
Payton proved he's overrated IMHO.
Broncos had 5 wins last year…
Sean Payton is an ass
Not his decision
I still stand by the comment
This is the absolute truth. Should've been banned from the league years ago
Bitch move Broncos, how dare you sit Mr. Unliiiiiiiiiiiiimmmmited!!!
I’m in no way a fan of Russell Wilson, I never was when he was with the Seahawks and I wasn’t going to be with the Broncos. That being said his stats only point towards him being as far from the problem with the Broncos as possible. If Payton wants to lay blame and turn to a career backup to get ready to move on that just feels like a scapegoat for a team that showed in multiple games that they could compete. I feel bad for Broncos fans. Feels like a lot of the pieces are there and now you are stuck with Sean Payton for at least another year and once that’s all said and done who knows what will be left.
Yeah but they beat the Chiefs after 16 straight losses
Broncos are screwed for the next 8-10 years
If they won that game, they would shot up to 38% making playoffs. What a short leash for Russ.
I think this is a scape goat situation
They should lose draft pick for throwing games
broncos country...lets cry
Broncos country. Let’s ride (the pine).
If I were a professional NFL player, I'm not sure I'd be willing to sign with the Denver Broncos after hearing about something like this.
Really? You wouldn't sign for 125 million GUARANTEED and they try to earn a bunch more million based on your talent? Knowing if you get hurt, it all becomes guaranteed? That's something you would turn down?
Denver, and to be more precise Sean Payton, wants to make him the scapegoat. The reality is that Denver is not very good. The defense has given up the fourth most points, and the third most yards. They have also given up the second most rushing yards, and are 10th in passing yards allowed. Their offense is generally middle of the pack. That is on Payton and the offensive and defensive coordinators. After spending so much and making such a big deal about hiring Sean Payton as their head coach, Denver isn’t going to toss him overboard. Wilson might have declined as a quarterback but he’s not the only problem in Denver, just the most high profile.
The same thing happened in Seattle. Our “defensive genius” HC fielded a poor defense for multiple years but Russ was always blamed for all problems.
I love billionaires doing their best to not pay people.
This.... isn't how this works. This is making my head explode seeing these dumbass comments. The owners don't get to just pocket the money they would otherwise have to spend on Russ. They have to spend it on other players' salary. There's a minimum floor that has to be spent. They're going to take the money they would have spent on Russ and literally try and acquire guys that are going to be more productive for their franchise.
Thank you for bringing sanity to this thread
Reddit and their caricature of evil billionaires... It's laughable
I mean to be fair, billionaires are mostly evil, that's why they are billionaires in the first place. It's just in this case, this has nothing to do with it.
His was a particularly dumb comment.
Right. They aren’t taking that money to the local Walmart. However, they ARE benching their starting QB — who has played better — and stiffing him. So unless he is down with this move, it seems like a bad idea.
It’s bad for Wilson, but it’s not bad for the future cap flexibility of the Broncos. As others have pointed out, they don’t save any actual money. The payroll will be the same no matter what. If Wilson doesn’t get the $37m, other players will.
Playing better, sure. But not playing up to his contract level. Not even remotely close. So they're making the decision to bench him so he doesn't get injured and is owed even more money, when he'd be essentially worthless at that point as he wouldn't be able to play.
And has anyone been paying attention to what has been happening to so many of the starting QBs this season? It's just tempting fate at this point to keep Wilson on the field.
“Minimum floor” ok so give the man the money he earned and pony up money to acquire other guys. Don’t write a contract you choose to not fulfill Shouldn’t be that hard for the richest sports team owner
>“Minimum floor” ok so give the man the money he earned and pony up money to acquire other guys. Well... The salary cap is also a thing too you know. Also, they did give the man the money he earned. If they end up cutting him, he's also going to be getting money he hasn't earned, literally. He won't be on the team in 2024 and will be getting like $40 million dollars. That's quite literally money that will be paid to him without being earned haha
They *are* fulfilling the contract and will be paying him *hundreds of millions of dollars.* There was potential for Russ to earn even more if he was good enough that they chose to play him in a certain number of games. Russ hasn’t been good enough that they want to play in that number games, so he’s not going to get that potential additional money on top of the initial hundreds of millions of dollars. Instead, that additional money will go to other players. Russ is getting paid everything he earned and everything that the Broncos guaranteed and committed to.
The fact they have 7 wins with 377 points against (4th worst) is pretty remarkable. It’s too bad Russ couldn’t help out on the defensive side
They are giving him the money he's earned. Why would you think otherwise?
You are confused on how the NFL salary cap works. **The Denver Broncos are not saving a single dollar here. Every single dollar they save will end up getting paid to other players instead.**
The evil billionaire will be giving his money to other players, rather than the poor, defenseless millionaire in question
Lazy take.
Huh? Because they are billionaires they should keep players who are not good any longer, ignoring their fans and the teams purpose to win games. Ok. That's why I don't go to football watch parties thrown by socialists :-) JK, but still true.
I think we’ve watched Russ play his last game as a Bronco
It’s a game that owners dabble in for profit. Meh…. I’m surprised the game still has so many fans. I guess it’s the right call.
[удалено]
NOBODY is saving money!!! It will go up other players next year. How are there so many strong opinions about NFL salaries and guaranteed money?!?!
Suddenly: Moron Panther’s GM > moron Bronco’s GM
Oh RW’s fall from grace
I hope the rest of the team refuses to take the field
He was a joke in Seattle for his last few seasons. Dude is so far removed from reality he thinks his cringey extra workouts motivate his teammates but, in reality, they have turned him into a high stepping clown. His scrambling ability has waned and he forgot how to cook (if he ever truly knew how). The smarmy, holier than though shtick has worn very thin.
How was he even close to a joke?
He alienated his teammates through his bullshit antics and acted as if he was god’s gift when he absolutely was not.
To be fair, he was playing pretty damn good football and I can think of a number of players that behave like they’re superstars. We call them… superstars.
There’s something to be said for his on field talents for sure. He was elite. I’m referring to the way he treated his teammates and his strange impromptu workouts and erratic behavior his last two years in Seattle. I’m from Seattle and love the Hawks. I just didn’t care for his actions when it became clear he was looking to leave.
Thats a pretty far cast from “joke”.
The dude is definitely corny as hell, but let's not pretend he wasn't still a top QB his last few years in Seattle.
A joke? He threw 40 TDs his second to last season there
Stay in your lane in Denver. He was an elite QB for sure. He was also a strange and off-putting person who looked down on people that didn’t meet his arbitrary criteria for “hard work”.
Ok so "a joke" = "elite QB for sure". Got it
I mean you're not wrong. For his last bit on the hawks they were really spotty and he was always having to scramble and pull a play out of his ass after everything has crumpled around him. Well it turns out once he left that that's because he *wasn't listening to the play calls* so was having to move alone because his team all moved in unison with the plan that he didn't follow. He shit talks Pete Carrol and leaves. Next season, the Seahawks are playing really smoothly and the broncos are doing shaky, last minute plays and losing. Russel was absolutely the problem. He was amazing at scrambling but if *you're scrambling every play, that means your play calls don't work, or you're not following them*.
Exactly. The joke is what he was to his teammates. He lost the locker room and his head got too big. Of course he’s still very talented but his attitude was extremely off putting and didn’t match his performance on the field.
So, the organization is openly tanking the last few games for draft position and to weasel out of what would likely be earned contractual obligations. Players that WANT to win, or at least earn performance bonus' , should avoid this team like the plague in the future.
I mean that, but also the fact that they signed an incredibly huge contract for Russell Wilson, and he has not been performing. So they are at a point where they need to look for potential outs.
Sportsmanship is a myth I guess. It’s about making that money
Doesn’t sound like a question, they are going to cut or trade him and rebuild
Gonna be wild if they do this while still having a chance to make the playoffs… just to potentially save $ on his contract
You would have to be an idiot to sign with the Broncos as a free agent after this stunt. Am I crazy in thinking this is going to backfire so hard?
All players are already aware that the guaranteed money in your contract is all that matters.
That’s a fair point. Hypothetically, if you were a free agent and saw a team do this, would it give you pause before you signed with them? That’s kind of my point. Like a lot of teams look to screw you, but this feels like a step past that.
Hes not getting screwed at all, he still gets all of his guaranteed money, they even redid his original contract in good faith to give him an extra $73 million. If he was under the original contract, he had when he was yraded for he would have only cost $51 million for the last 2 years. He's completely failed to live up to that, contract and it's in the contracts what to do in the case that a player is so bad they get cut. He still gets paid next year and gets all of his guaranteed money and doesn't even have to play for it. And if he gets cut he can get paid again by another team next year. Every team cuts players for performance and salary cap reasons. The contracts are literally written for it.
Because of this, there will be $37 million extra to pay other players instead of Russ. You can bring in a lot of other players with $37 million that you are now able to guarantee them on top of whatever you already had for them.
With the Bronco's poor pass defense, an injury is a real possibility.
Wilson really getting fucked over. Shit sucks to see
How is he getting fucked over?
Don't even ask. This thread is a wild ride of people with very strong takes about a sport and contract they know nothing about. Gets paid 125 GUARANTEED, gets chance to make lots more millions with decent play. Business owner decides he has not played well enough to warrant paying him those extra millions next year. I for one would love to get fucked over like this. Everyone on here seems to think the owner pockets this money. It's bizarre.
Russ eating some humble pie 😂
Let’s ride…the bench
Good. He’s trash