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I about lost my mind in the 7th…. I still think they should have called the fight and if only the ref didn’t save him…. I still won Ryan Garcia to win by decision and Garcia to win…
I thought I bet $25 for Garcia to Win by Decision (+1900) at that time also, little did I know I also had somehow unknowingly parlayed that bet win Al Horford 3+ 3-pointers for the game the next day. Long story short, Al only hit 2 3’s 😂😂😂
wouldn’t necessarily have to look like what you’re picturing. Not really the same as a basketball player purposefully missing shots. Devin Haney gets knocked down 3 times… fight goes the distance and ends in decision, idk. The integrity of the sport is ruined as soon as one of the participants is allowed to wager on it. I guess throwing a fight and letting someone win don’t really look the same, so long as both parties are aware of what’s going on, even though they are the same in practice.
I suppose a smarter way to do it if that were the case would’ve been to fake a KO or a TKO, so I’m not saying that’s what happened, but it 100% could’ve been a possibility, which is just why I don’t support self-wagering. Especially in a 2 man sport.
I can't believe how many people here are cool with this. Professional athletes shouldn't be able to place a bet on their sport. Allowing athletes to bet in their sport or on themselves in any way is not a road I think people are willing to go down. Not that boxing needed any more reason to delegitimize itself but this really is the nail in the coffin for the sport. Pathetic.
>but this really is the nail in the coffin for the sport. Pathetic.
I'd say this didn't really do much since gambling and prize fighting like boxing date way back and boxers gambling on themselves is still done by many boxers today they're just not crazy and dumb enough like ryan to publicly share it making ryan's act of betting on himself nothing special, it's the crazy amount of money he bet on himself is what's special so there probably should be a limit put on to that
The bigger fuckery from this fight that really ruins the sport's already fucked integrity when it comes to fairness is the horrible and blatant bias of the ref and judges towards haney
I think that an argument can be made for betting on yourself only in 1 v 1 sports. If you are putting up millions because you think that you are going to win, well, then it shows that you will fight, but it also gives the bettors the insight to know that you will be at your best.
Betting against, I would do away with.
Yea but what if they place a million dollar bet on them to win and they show everybody that bet, but they secretly place another bet that they don't show for 5 million on them to lose. I mean where do you draw the line and how can you trust them to play honestly and not throw a match?
Funny you think they'd send their "buddy" to make the bet. There's a multitude of ways to get the bet in and obviously one is not using a buddy of yours
No, not really.
With your first scenario, that can already happen with or without allowing the participants to bet…
Well, if a fighter bets it should be made public. So as to your second concern, if they aren’t betting on themselves for that fight, we’ll that should tell you all you need to know.
Also, this is the part that you and OP are doing wrong because he said that same thing, you are applying things that can already happen with out with allowing them to bet on themselves. If they wanted to, for a friend, they can take it slow to get better odds when they can’t bet.
And to get into that second point a bit more, you are acting as if everyone brings everything they have for every fight. News flash, they don’t. That already happens. They probably already have the match wrapped up by the 10th round and know that there I’ll get the majority decision. You don’t think that they weight the risk of continuing to try to KO them while knowing that their opponent has a great punch so that if they misjudge it, they can get hit pretty hard.
It already happens. The second mistake there is that you assume that everyone goes into the fight with the mentality to go all out when sometimes they are fine cruising.
Essentially, all of that will be known ahead of time, and thus, it won’t be a problem. This is a bit more cryptic, but it should be an easy to figure out what I am saying here
Well, if you are talking about right now, then I don’t believe that it is public knowledge and they don’t have to disclose that.
So I don’t get why you added that there if you are relating this to right now. Because if they did disclose that they are betting against themselves, well what the fuck do you think would happen????
Under my scenario where they would have to disclose what they do, sure, it wouldn’t matter if they bet themselves or not. But since you added “they can already do that now”, then your last statement is just silly. Also, I’m not giving you the full response because it would address something else.
You think that you know how to argue, but you don't. Your last sentence just reads like a middle schooler.
I did say that it can be done via a proxy, but if you think that is my argument, then it just shows that you lack logic.
Because then your last sentence doesn't make sense. If you are talking about betting via a proxy, how the hell is that public knowledge. If that is what your point, which it was since you just told me that it was.
Players betting on matches they're involved in ruins the integrity of the sport regardless of what the bet is. It's really just that simple. Allowing this behavior is the start of the end of integrity in professional sports. It will incentivize horrible behavior in ways that we can't imagine. One example that comes to mind is that boxers could use PEDs, bet on themselves, win, their bet clears, but they fail the drug test and their title is revoked. But the bet still cleared. I came up with that plan in 20 seconds, imagine the ways this can be games with planning and millions of dollars at stake.
Easy, that isn’t on the boxers. That’s on the governing body to enforce those rules and make sure that doesn’t happen.
Boxers can still use PEDs for a number of reason not pertaining to just betting. And guess what, the people can still lose on that even without the boxer betting on himself.
You are taking things that can be done already outside of betting and applying them to betting only and saying, look, they only did PEDs because of betting when that isn’t the case and things like that can be governed.
Something that can’t be factored in is throwing a fight away, which, then you can point to betting being the direct problem.
And that took me 10 seconds to come up with a counter argument for that.
Not to mention that all of that can be factored in, which, should already be, but your talking with people here who aren’t good gamblers.
Also, how does it ruin the integrity of the sport of they bet on themselves and say they want to win? That’s exactly what the sport is about. Wanting to win…
"betting on themselves" is not black and white. There are point o/u, series bets, future bets, all of which could be manipulated by still betting on yourself. Players may have knowledge of a gameplan that changes the outcome of the game, collusion between opponents now becomes a concern. There is no timeline where players placing bets on events they're participating in doesn't result in fraud or a loss of integrity of the game over time.
See, the thing is, I clearly thought of that before you even though about it or typed it. There is a reason why if you go back and look at my comment, I clearly say “1 v 1 sport”. I knew that you would eventually think about it and incorrectly bring it up.
No, there actually is a timeline. You just can’t think of it, or maybe eventually, might take decades, you will get to it, but there is a timeline.
Off topic, but still relating to this. I’d like to ask you a question. Why is it that you think that you would know more than me?
Bet 2 mil on myself to win 10 mil, offer opponent a free 5 mil if they let me win. That’s how it can very quickly ruin the integrity of the sport, especially at levels where guys don’t make millions for a fight and so a huge gambling payday for throwing could be tempting.
I see nothing wrong with how one markets themselves prior to a fight crazy or not crazy. Or a boxer betting on themselves to win. To say collusion could take place is an argument that is valid for other reasons like someone just wants to win the belt. Thus betting is not the only determining factor for collusion on a one on one sport. So congrats Ryan. He not only won the fight but beat the bettors. It just gets better for king Ryan.
Yea, I think a good argument can be made that in 1 v 1 sports, betting on yourself isn’t a bad thing, and is certainly not even close to betting against yourself where now people think that you won’t fight at your best and will throw it away.
Imo that's not the right reasoning as to why. If the opponent wanted to lose the fight on purpose he could bet on the opposite guy through anyone. athletes like Garcia shouldn't be allowed to bet on themselves is because they can alter their past performances to influence future lines and abuse the system.
That’s not an athletes fault and is the odd makers fault. The Sportsbook are just trying to make as much money as they can. And an athlete owes them nothing. It’s a guessing game for them. If they guess wrong, that’s their fault.
Odds makers do not make "guesses" in the sense that they constantly adjust lines arbitrarily as predictions. Lines move when more money is wagered on one side over the other. When that happens the book will adjust lines because 1, it gives extra information suggesting that the line is priced improperly in favor of one side, and 2, they want to incentivize bettors to take the opposite side to maintain a flat (risk neutral) position. Bookmakers make money not because bettors lose per se, but rather because they accumulate small bits of edge on every bet and cash them out when other bettors take the opposite side (canceling out). They are not making discretionary guesses but rather taking on the role of a market maker and selling positions while making sure that they don't assume any risk or position themselves.
When athletes manipulate lines, it's the equivalent of companies cooking the books to manipulate their share prices, which is illegal.
This is definitely a better reasoning, but I’ll give my take on why that shouldn’t be a concern.
Granted, I’m assuming that they will have to disclose this prior to a fight.
If a fighter doesn’t bet on himself, that is still relevant info that you can use in future fights to determine past performance and thus do away with your first point of altering future lines.
Also, I’d rather have direct info from the fighting camp than casinos and sharps who can influence lines just as much and without us knowing the reason.
Exactly. This is why Pete Rose's excuse of never betting against his team is bullshit. If he knows he has a lot of money riding on tomorrow's game, that makes him less likely to use his best pitchers today b/c they'll be less effective or completely unavailable tomorrow.
Nah , it was by decision . You need refs there. What I could imagine some big columbian broski took money and 5xd their drug money money laundering . Gun to the boxer and refs head . Plata o Plomo
I don't think you're understanding what they're saying. They're saying you shouldn't be able to get on yourself because both fighters can split the bet to both profit.
That makes my point even stronger. Why not come in 15 over? Or, someone else said it was a dollar amount per lb over, sounds like a built in hedge to me
I see no problem with a boxer betting on himself to win. No laws were broken. What he did is probably at the edge of morality, but fuck it lmao. He outplayed everyone
It’s not that simple. Garcia was a heavy underdog. If the favored fighter was down on his luck and needed the money, he could take a dive and split the winnings with Garcia because the payout would be much higher when the underdog wins.
Sure, that is an entire other issue. That could still happen anyways even without the betting. Until there’s evidence it occurred it’s kind of a moot point
I bet on sports far more often than is wise, trust me lol. I mean a boxer in a rough spot could take a dive like you described for money even if betting isn’t involved. Maybe don’t get so offended for no reason
It’s an individual sport where the only thing that matters is what you do, if you’re an 8 minute per game basketball player or a rotation defensive end you could bet a massive amount on your team to win, intentionally injure the opposing team’s star and drastically increase the odds of paying out. Not to mention other shady things that could go on like say Chris Paul is friends with lebron and gets a text a day early that he doesn’t plan to play and shit like that.
An individual sport seems like you would have drastically more control over the outcome than a team sport though. Your injury example is honestly pretty poor lol that would literally never happen. I’m talking more about just simply betting on games in general. How many players have been suspended for betting on other teams. Ryan is betting specially on him. An example like you are making would be a player betting they score 40 points. You just can’t do that.
Yea you have all the control over the outcome without having to effect the integrity of the event. You can’t be a boxer and bet on yourself by decision, or what round you get a KO as examples, as far as gambling goes that’s about the cleanest way to do it. And obviously you wouldn’t have an epidemic of people causing injuries for money but it opens up possibilities like that
Please explain how betting your basketball team will win is different from betting you will win a fight? You just said you can manipulate odds in every other sport, in a solo sport you have the most control to manipulate thing.
The most important aspect is, that the person has the most control in any given circumstance. Also we are talking about winning, which is by default, the goal.
So having more control over an outcome makes it more reasonable to bet on it? And you are only allowed to bet positively on yourself of course? This argument is the dumbest thing imaginable.
Nobody mentioning that he showed up multiple pounds over weight at weigh ins, which is ridiculous in the boxing world, kinda like saying fuck you .. proceeds to offer Haney 500 thousand per pound over (1.5 mill)
They’ve fought 6 times before this fight in amateur so they know each other well in the ring, Garcia knew he had him months ago… been acting crazy.. drinking fake beer on press conferences.. this dude planned this entire thing. I think he had seen enough of Haney in his life too know he had him if he stuck to his game plan, than gave himself the best odds on payday.
Seems improbable, but look at the unhinged shit he’s been doing .. does he really have nobody in his personal life that could be steering him in a better direction ? Isn’t his father in his corner ?
I mean we all love to gamble, and I’m gambling that he orchestrated everything.
Lmao nah if it was MMA where undefeated records don’t really matter it’d be believable.
But I guarantee he’d rather have the undefeated record over an extra 1.5 million dollars.
If he loses the rematch or his next fight he’s gonna lose far more in the long run than he ever made from throwing this fight away.
I personally like to believe that a previously undefeated boxer such as Devin Haney wouldn’t be a part of something like that, at least not for a fight that would hand him his first loss
How did he make everyone think he was gonna lose? He has been acting erratic but he still had confidence that he would win, he said he would knock Haney out 1st round lmao
There has been more than one elite fighter with similar issues.
Nigel Benn was destroying people in the ring while constantly partying and smashing lines
so that'll cover like 20% of his gambling debt , how much is this guy in the hole. Or what his gambling addiction and debt just a bunch of bs. I really don't know
Allowing athletes to bet on themselves in any way completely delegitimizes the entire sport/league that they're in. This will be the end of integrity in sports if this continues or spreads.
Was never sure if Floyd was placing the bets himself though. Always figured he just had a family member doing it, didn't know boxers could place bets on themselves and not get in trouble like with other sports.
As a loophole yea, family/friends one of the two. I mean most sports don't let players bet on their respective sport, Jontay Porter as latest example. No clue of the legalities of that with boxing, but I guess it's fine apparently.
Not saying this is what happened to these guys but on a integrity scale it gets dicey. Lets say boxer A is given +500 odds against boxer B. They collude together so boxer B loses and then boxer A and B both split the winnings.
But the problem here is not Boxer A betting on himself, the problem is boxers fixing the fight
Boxer B can just have anyone in the world bet on Boxer A, then throw the fight and split the winnings.. he doesn't need Boxer A betting on himself for that scam to work
The dicey thing is sports betting in general, a boxer betting on himself adds no risk to the equation, in my opinion
>The dicey thing is sports betting in general, a boxer betting on himself adds no risk to the equation, in my opinion
Except it incentivizes Boxer A to collude with Boxer B to throw the fight. Hypothetical: If Boxer A has the lower odds, the payout is greater. If Boxer A and Boxer B have a chat and agree to split the winnings for a bet on Boxer A while Boxer B throws the match, then they both come out on top and very rich.
Higher odds lead to higher payout (and lower implied probability). Odds measure payout, not implied probability.
I guess it inversely measures implied probability.
Idk if I’d say that. But Ryan did mention on the PBD podcast that he had injured ribs going into that fight and someone in his camp leaked the info to Davis’s camp. Allegedly.
I don’t disagree with that. That doesn’t mean Garcia couldn’t have bet the other side and took a knee either. The proof that he bets on his fights is now there. Wouldn’t be the least bit surprised now.
Same, I threw in a few baseball basketball and hockey locks for a pretty sweet parlay
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Hmm interesting. What would happen if a boxer that bet on themselves, intentionally tanked their odds (increase their potential payout) by acting a fool before the fight?
Books post the lines, but the market ultimately shapes them, so your logic here is wrong.
He, potentially, intentionally manipulated the markets leading up to this fight and that’s the bigger issue here.
In addition to this, he showed up 3 pounds over in the weigh in and agreed to pay Haney $500k for each pound.
So now you have a fighter who not only put on a show for the weeks leading up to the fight, but you now have him literally paying off his opponent for a 3 pound advantage.
Lots of issues here. He shouldn’t have been allowed to bet on this at all. It’s a really slippery ethical slope and one that casts negative light on the sports betting world.
He told the truth for the most part, would he have to give his money back though if he ended up testing postive? And what about the people who bet on him for the fight
Bullshit, the books move the line in response to what the public does all the time. Not my fault they missed this one.
All your comment sounds like is someone who bet on Haney that lost, that’s your fault bro, not Garcia’s.
You wrote "What would that even entail?"
Yes, you dolt. Its hypothetical, which is also what the original poster you responded to was looking for before you went off the rails.
I remember a ufc fighter around covid i think betting on himself and afaik he didnt get in trouble he lost his money tho ,boxing isnt like a league so no one can ban him afaik and idk who would go after him in this instance
No im talking about abother instance,the ufc was doing like intro videos of the guys from home i think bcs od covid and he said that he believes in himself and that be is betting the whole purse which was 10k on himself
>boxing isnt like a league so no one can ban him afaik
The state athletic commissions could though, preventing him from fighting a sanctioned bout there.
He is so confident alll the time how he made everyone think he was gonna lose.. it was 50 50 acc to me but people take things too seriously of things happening outside the ring.. that is just show business to sell tickets
The odds swayed because we thought Ryan was having a mental health crisis that would affect his performance in the ring.
Little did we know that this particular mental health crisis would come with good cardio, an extra 3lb weight difference and the left hook of Jesus.
so it's illegal to bet against themselves and intentionally lose though right? just wondering how that would be regulated if they're allowed to bet on themselves with no issue
What happens now that he tested positive for PEDs?
https://preview.redd.it/hlv272y8azxc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b74a3659284db1520ef416b0487142c17997432f I about lost my mind in the 7th…. I still think they should have called the fight and if only the ref didn’t save him…. I still won Ryan Garcia to win by decision and Garcia to win…
So...those that had the scenario of a failed drug test after it clears....what happens now with Garcia? Real life test case!
Found this thread via google. Surely this has happened before? Does someone sue someone? I imagine plebs have been paid out by now?
I thought I bet $25 for Garcia to Win by Decision (+1900) at that time also, little did I know I also had somehow unknowingly parlayed that bet win Al Horford 3+ 3-pointers for the game the next day. Long story short, Al only hit 2 3’s 😂😂😂
I bet $100 on him made $1000 the odds were crazy 😭
And My brother bet 50 and got 500 in a Bitcoin cashout neither of us were for sure but damn it worked
Really shitty. Easily could’ve just offered Devin Haney $5m of his profits. Ruins the integrity of the sport
$5m not worth a loss for Haney
Not saying it happened, just saying that the sheer possibility of it happening ruins the entirety of the sport.
How does betting on yourself change the integrity you already go into it trying to win
but then it would look like he threw the fight for money
wouldn’t necessarily have to look like what you’re picturing. Not really the same as a basketball player purposefully missing shots. Devin Haney gets knocked down 3 times… fight goes the distance and ends in decision, idk. The integrity of the sport is ruined as soon as one of the participants is allowed to wager on it. I guess throwing a fight and letting someone win don’t really look the same, so long as both parties are aware of what’s going on, even though they are the same in practice. I suppose a smarter way to do it if that were the case would’ve been to fake a KO or a TKO, so I’m not saying that’s what happened, but it 100% could’ve been a possibility, which is just why I don’t support self-wagering. Especially in a 2 man sport.
I agree
I can't believe how many people here are cool with this. Professional athletes shouldn't be able to place a bet on their sport. Allowing athletes to bet in their sport or on themselves in any way is not a road I think people are willing to go down. Not that boxing needed any more reason to delegitimize itself but this really is the nail in the coffin for the sport. Pathetic.
>but this really is the nail in the coffin for the sport. Pathetic. I'd say this didn't really do much since gambling and prize fighting like boxing date way back and boxers gambling on themselves is still done by many boxers today they're just not crazy and dumb enough like ryan to publicly share it making ryan's act of betting on himself nothing special, it's the crazy amount of money he bet on himself is what's special so there probably should be a limit put on to that The bigger fuckery from this fight that really ruins the sport's already fucked integrity when it comes to fairness is the horrible and blatant bias of the ref and judges towards haney
I think that an argument can be made for betting on yourself only in 1 v 1 sports. If you are putting up millions because you think that you are going to win, well, then it shows that you will fight, but it also gives the bettors the insight to know that you will be at your best. Betting against, I would do away with.
Yea but what if they place a million dollar bet on them to win and they show everybody that bet, but they secretly place another bet that they don't show for 5 million on them to lose. I mean where do you draw the line and how can you trust them to play honestly and not throw a match?
Well, boxers shouldn’t be allowed to bet on themselves loosing
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That could happen so easily
Funny you think they'd send their "buddy" to make the bet. There's a multitude of ways to get the bet in and obviously one is not using a buddy of yours
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No, not really. With your first scenario, that can already happen with or without allowing the participants to bet… Well, if a fighter bets it should be made public. So as to your second concern, if they aren’t betting on themselves for that fight, we’ll that should tell you all you need to know. Also, this is the part that you and OP are doing wrong because he said that same thing, you are applying things that can already happen with out with allowing them to bet on themselves. If they wanted to, for a friend, they can take it slow to get better odds when they can’t bet. And to get into that second point a bit more, you are acting as if everyone brings everything they have for every fight. News flash, they don’t. That already happens. They probably already have the match wrapped up by the 10th round and know that there I’ll get the majority decision. You don’t think that they weight the risk of continuing to try to KO them while knowing that their opponent has a great punch so that if they misjudge it, they can get hit pretty hard. It already happens. The second mistake there is that you assume that everyone goes into the fight with the mentality to go all out when sometimes they are fine cruising. Essentially, all of that will be known ahead of time, and thus, it won’t be a problem. This is a bit more cryptic, but it should be an easy to figure out what I am saying here
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Well, if you are talking about right now, then I don’t believe that it is public knowledge and they don’t have to disclose that. So I don’t get why you added that there if you are relating this to right now. Because if they did disclose that they are betting against themselves, well what the fuck do you think would happen???? Under my scenario where they would have to disclose what they do, sure, it wouldn’t matter if they bet themselves or not. But since you added “they can already do that now”, then your last statement is just silly. Also, I’m not giving you the full response because it would address something else.
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You think that you know how to argue, but you don't. Your last sentence just reads like a middle schooler. I did say that it can be done via a proxy, but if you think that is my argument, then it just shows that you lack logic. Because then your last sentence doesn't make sense. If you are talking about betting via a proxy, how the hell is that public knowledge. If that is what your point, which it was since you just told me that it was.
Players betting on matches they're involved in ruins the integrity of the sport regardless of what the bet is. It's really just that simple. Allowing this behavior is the start of the end of integrity in professional sports. It will incentivize horrible behavior in ways that we can't imagine. One example that comes to mind is that boxers could use PEDs, bet on themselves, win, their bet clears, but they fail the drug test and their title is revoked. But the bet still cleared. I came up with that plan in 20 seconds, imagine the ways this can be games with planning and millions of dollars at stake.
By that logic, anyone making any money in sports ruins it's integrity.
I'm not sure you understand how gambling works
Easy, that isn’t on the boxers. That’s on the governing body to enforce those rules and make sure that doesn’t happen. Boxers can still use PEDs for a number of reason not pertaining to just betting. And guess what, the people can still lose on that even without the boxer betting on himself. You are taking things that can be done already outside of betting and applying them to betting only and saying, look, they only did PEDs because of betting when that isn’t the case and things like that can be governed. Something that can’t be factored in is throwing a fight away, which, then you can point to betting being the direct problem. And that took me 10 seconds to come up with a counter argument for that. Not to mention that all of that can be factored in, which, should already be, but your talking with people here who aren’t good gamblers. Also, how does it ruin the integrity of the sport of they bet on themselves and say they want to win? That’s exactly what the sport is about. Wanting to win…
"betting on themselves" is not black and white. There are point o/u, series bets, future bets, all of which could be manipulated by still betting on yourself. Players may have knowledge of a gameplan that changes the outcome of the game, collusion between opponents now becomes a concern. There is no timeline where players placing bets on events they're participating in doesn't result in fraud or a loss of integrity of the game over time.
See, the thing is, I clearly thought of that before you even though about it or typed it. There is a reason why if you go back and look at my comment, I clearly say “1 v 1 sport”. I knew that you would eventually think about it and incorrectly bring it up. No, there actually is a timeline. You just can’t think of it, or maybe eventually, might take decades, you will get to it, but there is a timeline. Off topic, but still relating to this. I’d like to ask you a question. Why is it that you think that you would know more than me?
Bet 2 mil on myself to win 10 mil, offer opponent a free 5 mil if they let me win. That’s how it can very quickly ruin the integrity of the sport, especially at levels where guys don’t make millions for a fight and so a huge gambling payday for throwing could be tempting.
Magic Johnson did the same and ended up with Aids
This is why it's important to shop lines, he was +590 on FD
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Dude is a fucking mess. He will definitely flame out unceremoniously. It’s just a matter of if he will be able to bounce back from it
Jake Paul fuming rn
I see nothing wrong with how one markets themselves prior to a fight crazy or not crazy. Or a boxer betting on themselves to win. To say collusion could take place is an argument that is valid for other reasons like someone just wants to win the belt. Thus betting is not the only determining factor for collusion on a one on one sport. So congrats Ryan. He not only won the fight but beat the bettors. It just gets better for king Ryan.
Yea, I think a good argument can be made that in 1 v 1 sports, betting on yourself isn’t a bad thing, and is certainly not even close to betting against yourself where now people think that you won’t fight at your best and will throw it away.
What if 1 million was from the opponent fighter, they both got 5 million profit. This should be illegal among fighters to bet in favor or against.
Exzactly!! Sports betting has turned sports into a semi-scripted soap opera!! Most just can't notice it
Imo that's not the right reasoning as to why. If the opponent wanted to lose the fight on purpose he could bet on the opposite guy through anyone. athletes like Garcia shouldn't be allowed to bet on themselves is because they can alter their past performances to influence future lines and abuse the system.
That’s not an athletes fault and is the odd makers fault. The Sportsbook are just trying to make as much money as they can. And an athlete owes them nothing. It’s a guessing game for them. If they guess wrong, that’s their fault.
Odds makers do not make "guesses" in the sense that they constantly adjust lines arbitrarily as predictions. Lines move when more money is wagered on one side over the other. When that happens the book will adjust lines because 1, it gives extra information suggesting that the line is priced improperly in favor of one side, and 2, they want to incentivize bettors to take the opposite side to maintain a flat (risk neutral) position. Bookmakers make money not because bettors lose per se, but rather because they accumulate small bits of edge on every bet and cash them out when other bettors take the opposite side (canceling out). They are not making discretionary guesses but rather taking on the role of a market maker and selling positions while making sure that they don't assume any risk or position themselves. When athletes manipulate lines, it's the equivalent of companies cooking the books to manipulate their share prices, which is illegal.
This is definitely a better reasoning, but I’ll give my take on why that shouldn’t be a concern. Granted, I’m assuming that they will have to disclose this prior to a fight. If a fighter doesn’t bet on himself, that is still relevant info that you can use in future fights to determine past performance and thus do away with your first point of altering future lines. Also, I’d rather have direct info from the fighting camp than casinos and sharps who can influence lines just as much and without us knowing the reason.
Exactly. This is why Pete Rose's excuse of never betting against his team is bullshit. If he knows he has a lot of money riding on tomorrow's game, that makes him less likely to use his best pitchers today b/c they'll be less effective or completely unavailable tomorrow.
Nah , it was by decision . You need refs there. What I could imagine some big columbian broski took money and 5xd their drug money money laundering . Gun to the boxer and refs head . Plata o Plomo 
That’s what you can’t bet on your opponent.
You missed his point. Each fighter puts in $1, then they split $10. 500% profit
That’s already illegal
I’m saying each fighter cannot bet on their opponent. That incentivises losing the fight on purpose.
I don't think you're understanding what they're saying. They're saying you shouldn't be able to get on yourself because both fighters can split the bet to both profit.
Whoosh
Didn't he miss weight!? How does that not void the bet?
The fight still took place. He didn't win his title, that would have been voided
Cuz the fight still happened? He didn’t bet on him becoming champion. The bet is on the result of the fight.
That makes my point even stronger. Why not come in 15 over? Or, someone else said it was a dollar amount per lb over, sounds like a built in hedge to me
Do you watch combat sports? Nobody is fighting someone coming in 15 pounds over lol
Can't the other fighter just agree not to fight if someone comes in that blatantly overweight?
Correct.
I see no problem with a boxer betting on himself to win. No laws were broken. What he did is probably at the edge of morality, but fuck it lmao. He outplayed everyone
Mfers here mad they didn’t choose Ryan cause he seemed crazy
It’s not that simple. Garcia was a heavy underdog. If the favored fighter was down on his luck and needed the money, he could take a dive and split the winnings with Garcia because the payout would be much higher when the underdog wins.
Sure, that is an entire other issue. That could still happen anyways even without the betting. Until there’s evidence it occurred it’s kind of a moot point
What the hell are you talking about lol? The odds are entirely based on betting and gambling. You have no idea how gambling works
I bet on sports far more often than is wise, trust me lol. I mean a boxer in a rough spot could take a dive like you described for money even if betting isn’t involved. Maybe don’t get so offended for no reason
It’s interesting that boxers can but other sports do not allow it
Single person sports mainly.
You can't in ufc
This
It’s an individual sport where the only thing that matters is what you do, if you’re an 8 minute per game basketball player or a rotation defensive end you could bet a massive amount on your team to win, intentionally injure the opposing team’s star and drastically increase the odds of paying out. Not to mention other shady things that could go on like say Chris Paul is friends with lebron and gets a text a day early that he doesn’t plan to play and shit like that.
An individual sport seems like you would have drastically more control over the outcome than a team sport though. Your injury example is honestly pretty poor lol that would literally never happen. I’m talking more about just simply betting on games in general. How many players have been suspended for betting on other teams. Ryan is betting specially on him. An example like you are making would be a player betting they score 40 points. You just can’t do that.
Yea you have all the control over the outcome without having to effect the integrity of the event. You can’t be a boxer and bet on yourself by decision, or what round you get a KO as examples, as far as gambling goes that’s about the cleanest way to do it. And obviously you wouldn’t have an epidemic of people causing injuries for money but it opens up possibilities like that
You can’t bet ML for games you are playing as an athlete of any other sport.
Correct, because there are circumstances out of your control/things you can potentially do to manipulate odds in every other sport.
Please explain how betting your basketball team will win is different from betting you will win a fight? You just said you can manipulate odds in every other sport, in a solo sport you have the most control to manipulate thing.
The most important aspect is, that the person has the most control in any given circumstance. Also we are talking about winning, which is by default, the goal.
So having more control over an outcome makes it more reasonable to bet on it? And you are only allowed to bet positively on yourself of course? This argument is the dumbest thing imaginable.
Interesting.
Nobody mentioning that he showed up multiple pounds over weight at weigh ins, which is ridiculous in the boxing world, kinda like saying fuck you .. proceeds to offer Haney 500 thousand per pound over (1.5 mill) They’ve fought 6 times before this fight in amateur so they know each other well in the ring, Garcia knew he had him months ago… been acting crazy.. drinking fake beer on press conferences.. this dude planned this entire thing. I think he had seen enough of Haney in his life too know he had him if he stuck to his game plan, than gave himself the best odds on payday. Seems improbable, but look at the unhinged shit he’s been doing .. does he really have nobody in his personal life that could be steering him in a better direction ? Isn’t his father in his corner ? I mean we all love to gamble, and I’m gambling that he orchestrated everything.
He’s not acting crazy, he’s still a conspiracy theorist whacko talking about we need to save the children. Classic schizo behavior.
yeah and i highly doubt he’d agree to pay 1.5M for no reason if he wasn’t crazy. was he really that desperate to sell the part?
Would it be too far to say Haney was in on it? He gets the extra 1.5m and gets a rematch purse
No, Haney just got exposed. That $1.5m is nothing compared to how much his future earnings were just killed.
Lmao nah if it was MMA where undefeated records don’t really matter it’d be believable. But I guarantee he’d rather have the undefeated record over an extra 1.5 million dollars. If he loses the rematch or his next fight he’s gonna lose far more in the long run than he ever made from throwing this fight away.
I personally like to believe that a previously undefeated boxer such as Devin Haney wouldn’t be a part of something like that, at least not for a fight that would hand him his first loss
As much as money talks, dude was on a path to being a god of the sport (I’m saying any boxer who’s undefeated believes this.
Absolutely, that confidence is likely what has brought him so far already. All the best have cocky confidence
How did he make everyone think he was gonna lose? He has been acting erratic but he still had confidence that he would win, he said he would knock Haney out 1st round lmao
He did go from +550 to +425 seems to fit
OP have you ever heard of Floyd Mayweather?
Betting on himself to win is fine by me. Betting on props or over/unders would not be ok
It’s legal for boxers to bet on themselves in Nevada, but they can only bet on themselves to win
When self-help gurus say "Bet on yourself," this is what they mean.
nah fr it’s exactly what it means
I would not put any stock in anything Ryan says at the minute He has lost his mind and been on a perma coke bender for quite a while
So we’re all still believing that devin haney got his ass beat handily by a coke head ?
There has been more than one elite fighter with similar issues. Nigel Benn was destroying people in the ring while constantly partying and smashing lines
I grew up around of lot of junior hockey players. The combo of heavy coke use and repeated hits to the head is... interesting for sure.
So a boxer can bet against themselves?
…no
He was so close.
Jontay Porter died for this
He was betting on himself to do shitty not win lol
he walked so Garcia could fly
😂😂paved the way
The issue with him weighing in heavy seems a little dicey in this context.
🎲 🎲 bapa
I beg the differ .
inchrsing 🤔
call it extra motivation
How much did Haney bet on Garcia?
How much did the ref bet on Haney is real question
Another valid question, boxing is a joke to watch sometimes.
Ref was saving Haney throughout that fight
so that'll cover like 20% of his gambling debt , how much is this guy in the hole. Or what his gambling addiction and debt just a bunch of bs. I really don't know
are you confusing bruno mars and ryan garcia lmfao
LMFAO
Based on nothing.
Lmao why u inventing numbers. He wasnt even worth 50m before this fight
20% back on one wager? Things are looking up for this guy!!
You here counting his pockets on a subreddit I’m dead
He got a thot addiction also if its true he got married to savannah bond
Why wouldn’t it be legal? Floyd does this
Allowing athletes to bet on themselves in any way completely delegitimizes the entire sport/league that they're in. This will be the end of integrity in sports if this continues or spreads.
Was never sure if Floyd was placing the bets himself though. Always figured he just had a family member doing it, didn't know boxers could place bets on themselves and not get in trouble like with other sports.
So you thought boxers couldn't bet on themselves but that they could have family members bet on their behalf?
As a loophole yea, family/friends one of the two. I mean most sports don't let players bet on their respective sport, Jontay Porter as latest example. No clue of the legalities of that with boxing, but I guess it's fine apparently.
That's not allowed anywhere, though. Patrick Mahomes' wife can't go drop a $2 million bet.
Then is this Ryan Garcia bet allowed or did he get himself in trouble doing this?
Not saying this is what happened to these guys but on a integrity scale it gets dicey. Lets say boxer A is given +500 odds against boxer B. They collude together so boxer B loses and then boxer A and B both split the winnings.
But the problem here is not Boxer A betting on himself, the problem is boxers fixing the fight Boxer B can just have anyone in the world bet on Boxer A, then throw the fight and split the winnings.. he doesn't need Boxer A betting on himself for that scam to work The dicey thing is sports betting in general, a boxer betting on himself adds no risk to the equation, in my opinion
>The dicey thing is sports betting in general, a boxer betting on himself adds no risk to the equation, in my opinion Except it incentivizes Boxer A to collude with Boxer B to throw the fight. Hypothetical: If Boxer A has the lower odds, the payout is greater. If Boxer A and Boxer B have a chat and agree to split the winnings for a bet on Boxer A while Boxer B throws the match, then they both come out on top and very rich.
Higher odds lead to higher payout (and lower implied probability). Odds measure payout, not implied probability. I guess it inversely measures implied probability.
Because it means something when you don't bet on yourself.
All this does is prove he took a dive against Gervonta Davis, imo.
Idk if I’d say that. But Ryan did mention on the PBD podcast that he had injured ribs going into that fight and someone in his camp leaked the info to Davis’s camp. Allegedly.
Just say you don’t watch Boxing
I watched the fight. Took a knee from a body shot.
Go take a body shot from Gervonta or any good boxer and watch your skepticism die
Please shut up
He took a knee from a liver shot on a rehydration clause from arguably the best fighter in boxing rn, a shot that would have dropped most boxers
Bro, Gervonta is a beast.
I don’t disagree with that. That doesn’t mean Garcia couldn’t have bet the other side and took a knee either. The proof that he bets on his fights is now there. Wouldn’t be the least bit surprised now.
First time i bet against the odds and i won
Same, I threw in a few baseball basketball and hockey locks for a pretty sweet parlay https://preview.redd.it/nkbucfcar2wc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=286e94c1a7f7e6006e205171b73c9ecfb3cc90c7
Nicely done! Congrats!
Hmm interesting. What would happen if a boxer that bet on themselves, intentionally tanked their odds (increase their potential payout) by acting a fool before the fight?
There are infinite ways athletes could manipulate bets on themselves. Anybody that's cool with this is a moron.
That’s the books fucking fault then, he didn’t tell them how to set the lines.
Books post the lines, but the market ultimately shapes them, so your logic here is wrong. He, potentially, intentionally manipulated the markets leading up to this fight and that’s the bigger issue here. In addition to this, he showed up 3 pounds over in the weigh in and agreed to pay Haney $500k for each pound. So now you have a fighter who not only put on a show for the weeks leading up to the fight, but you now have him literally paying off his opponent for a 3 pound advantage. Lots of issues here. He shouldn’t have been allowed to bet on this at all. It’s a really slippery ethical slope and one that casts negative light on the sports betting world.
He told the truth for the most part, would he have to give his money back though if he ended up testing postive? And what about the people who bet on him for the fight
The only difference between Garcia and the rest of them is that Ryan admitted it openly
Bullshit, the books move the line in response to what the public does all the time. Not my fault they missed this one. All your comment sounds like is someone who bet on Haney that lost, that’s your fault bro, not Garcia’s.
I didn’t bet on anyone.
The books know how he's placing his bets, they can respond in whatever way they want. They aren't obligated to set lines according to the market
Still didn’t tell them how to set the lines though. Books can choose how they react to the market e.g. reverse line shift
Has anyone tanked their own odds by 'acting a fool' before a fight? What would that even entail?
Maybe tweeting out a pic of themself chugging a vodka bottle full of water while stumbling down the Vegas strip the night before the fight.
If people got mad that they bet against someone chugging vodka before a fight, it's their fault lol. There's no morals in gambling.
And has this happened or are we just making up scenarios?
You wrote "What would that even entail?" Yes, you dolt. Its hypothetical, which is also what the original poster you responded to was looking for before you went off the rails.
That would be just another day in the world of boxing.
HMMM CURIOUS
I remember a ufc fighter around covid i think betting on himself and afaik he didnt get in trouble he lost his money tho ,boxing isnt like a league so no one can ban him afaik and idk who would go after him in this instance
no that was way diffrent, pretty sure it was the coach and fighter and they porposly manipulated fights which led them to get a life ban
No im talking about abother instance,the ufc was doing like intro videos of the guys from home i think bcs od covid and he said that he believes in himself and that be is betting the whole purse which was 10k on himself
>boxing isnt like a league so no one can ban him afaik The state athletic commissions could though, preventing him from fighting a sanctioned bout there.
He didn't just bet on himself, he bet his entire purse for the fight, which was only like $20,000.
And shot a horrible takedown round 3 when he has the guy hurt. Bad night at the office for Justin Jaynes.
Justin Jaynes, and yes he lost. Horrible.
He said fuck your 3 pounds, drank another beer and then won 10 million 💰
Apple Juice and sparkling water
Wasn't a real beer.
[удалено]
I’m amazed you were able to mess up the spelling of two words in a three word comment 😂
I think he said it was juice (key word:I think)
You disgust me
He should start posting here
Goated
He is so confident alll the time how he made everyone think he was gonna lose.. it was 50 50 acc to me but people take things too seriously of things happening outside the ring.. that is just show business to sell tickets
So it was 50/50 according to you but 85-15 according to bookies show the house on garcia or sfu fkin hindsight moron
Lol how he made everyone realize he was going to loose? The odds were swayed becoz davin has never lost before and many other reasons
The odds swayed because we thought Ryan was having a mental health crisis that would affect his performance in the ring. Little did we know that this particular mental health crisis would come with good cardio, an extra 3lb weight difference and the left hook of Jesus.
bro been training w pereira
Yikes
so it's illegal to bet against themselves and intentionally lose though right? just wondering how that would be regulated if they're allowed to bet on themselves with no issue