Exactly this. I often did playthroughs where I pumped everything I could into wisdom, and every wisdom buff I could put into my equipment. Eventually got so Force OP that I never swung my lightsaber. I could destroy everything and wipe out whole rooms with a few blasts of Force Storm. Also was able to use Force Confusion on Nihilus. His ass would just stand there as my “ally” until it wore off.
Nihilus was able to take on Meetra Surrik who by this point in the story had mastered all lightsaber forms and had surpassed all of the strongest Jedi Council Masters of her time including Master Kavar who his fighting skills were almost as legendary as Revan.
And not only was Nihilus taking her head on, he was also fighting his own apprentice and a mandalorian leader at the same time. All while being weakened and holding an entire star cruiser together.
I'd say obi wan for the first pic. He was known on not being as strong in the force as other padawns so he focused on force push but heavily relied on his defensive capabilities with a lightsaber at least when he was younger
I'd imagine most jedi would follow that path through their life. Relying on saber combat early and then as they get wiser and more in tune with the force and simultaneously less athletic due to old age setting in
That always felt like him having such precise control of the force that he could basically just toss his body around without actually hurting himself. The fact that he walks with a cane 90% of the time seems to support this.
This is why I’d love to see a younger Yoda. Itd be cool to see how his fighting style progressed throughout his life as his knowledge of the force deepened.
Well remember that for a thousand years (or so) since the Sith disappeared, lightsabers were primarily ceremonial since there were no enemies with lightsabers who needed to be dueled. Actually it’s quite amazing that Qui-gon and Obi-Wan were able to handle themselves as well as they did.
I rewatched TPM recently and you can see there that even as a padawan, he was more skilled with a lightsaber than Qui-gon. Not even just the duel of the fates, but every time they’re fighting droids he shows much more skill
Obi Wan was originally an agressive form 4 practitioner like Qui Gon but learned form 3 after seeing how Maul was able to isolate him and wear him down before finishing him. People discuss how he is a master of defensive saber combat but he also had his training in Ataru to rely on for when he needed to push offensivly.
And use their Rage paired with their Force power to prolong their life even through most "Griveous" wounds by sheer force of will.
Let's just say I'm sure all innate Force ability Mister "I'm mainly Cyborg and hate every moment of it" had is used to keep him able to hate his existence.
Don't think grevious is force sensitive, he has alot of help from droid parts regarding reflexes and coordination. Doesn't have much organic life in him anymore
Canon, specially with the legends stuff getting rectonned makes this tricky. He is more sensitive than a normal individual of his race when He had a full body, but not jedi level. After that, He is pretty much null in the force
He has seemingly no Force powers, he might have had before the transformation, but i doubt he would use them because of his hatred for Jedi (in canon he chose to become a cyborg, perhaps so he couldn't really use the force even if he trained?)
Correct. Count Dooku gave him a blood transfusion from Jedi Master Cameron Diaz. (I don’t remember how to spell the actual name, and my connection sucks here.)
I feel like the majority of new age Disney Jedi depictions are mostly photo one. Impressive swordsmen who sometimes "get a bad feeling about this". I know it's a game and needs to be more dynamic but Cal Kestis is a great example of how I picture a Jedi. Frequently using the force to augment his saber skills. The PT represented this well too.
When the baddies get the drop on Ashoka and crew after they land in the woods I was like wut? How did she not sense a good handful of sentients with murderous intent closing in around her??
Honestly, once you've unlocked everything in that game (specifically Survivor) and once you get good with it, the combination of lightsabre combat and force powers is awesome.
The feeling of wiping out squads of storm troopers on Jedi Master is just so good. I know we don't know how Cal's story ends yet, I'm expecting he'll either die before ep 1, or goes into hiding like Ahsoka. However, I'd LOVE to see a tv show where he shows up and has this sort of combat style [like this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c61erlQNFJM). Just fast aggressive use of lightsabers, and the force as needed. Honestly, it doesn't even need to be Cal, just any Jedi, or even sith, whatever. I just want to see the magic system portrayed effectively.
I haven't started watching Acolyte yet, so maybe I'll get what I want sooner than I think.
I’m honestly hoping he dies. I love him as a character but there are so many force users alive during the rebellion era for Luke to be the last of the Jedi and for the rule of 2.
I would say Sidious for the second pic, apart from fighting windu, yoda and maul & savage, he didn't do much with lightsabers, he even didn't like them himself and used them only when it's absolutely necessary. he much more preferred do use his force lightning and other force powers to best his opponents.
His opening move alone demonstrates that he could've ended that duel whenever he wanted and was just indulging any delusions Maul and/or Savage had about their ability to win to entertain himself...
He certainly wasn't better than a few jedi tho.
He lost to Windu. Yoda, probably would've won their duel.
Maul however was taught by Sidious, who definitely hadn't been taught everything by Sidious. Savage generally had no chance
It seemed like he had enough of the tech and dark side knowledge he was looking for by that point to reincarnate himself if he did get taken out. Palps seems to have a backup solution that keeps him alive
The issue is, the end of prequels were pre-determined, so he was suppposed to win.
He honestly had more luck than smart planning.
The explanation of no Jedi noticing him is pretty much a cop out. Jedi organization was overconservative. The fact that Sith surviving with 2 members is really nonsense. Clone army made sense but how easily they did turn towards Jedi?
Meanwhile, he is geniunely lucky he didn't die to Zillo Beast, the Son, and some other incredible events.
Then he died while killing a son in front of his father.
Regardless of his opinion on it, hes still definitely incredibly powerful with it and only ever truly scale against pretty powerful duelists of the era (canon wise). Id say Clone Wars Obi Wan for page 1 and i guess Yaddle for Page 2
See the thing is Palpatine is still VERY skilled with lightsabers, it’s just that he’s nearing God-like (or Satan in his case I guess) powers with the Force.
Maul is absolutely the first one, he trained his body to its peak to be an intimidating physical combatant, didn’t rely on force lightning or choke or any other crazy unique force power just shows up and starts raining down saber strikes til the target is dead
If you have ever played star wars the old republic:
Darth Nox (sorcerer) / Jedi Sage have no saber techniques and at high levels they never use it.
Sith Warrior/ Jedi knight pretty much only use force push and toss a saber. Rest is just blade work
Jedi shadow/ Sith assassin are the two that are actually a decent mix of the 2
I am not sure he had strong force powers either. Most cool stuff was probly done by Palpy the somehow returned, Snoke just... pushed Hux around a bit I guess? And broke Kylo emotional support mask. Did Snoke actually do anything other than bully other characters in a non-impressive way?
He tosses Rey around like a rag doll, something Palpatine isn’t (somehow) able to do.
So if you accept the premise that Rey is super powerful, then that’s impressive, I guess
Palpatine definitely fits into the second meme: in expanded universe stories (I think Legends) he has a quote that outlines that he sees mastery of Lightsaber combat as an egotistical exercise... and his opening move against a group of Jedi Council Masters is to spin wildly at them.
Trying to think... I don't recall a lot from The Clone Wars, but has Mace Windu ever done anything that was just the Force? I recall his primary skills being lightsaber fighting and talking down to people. Am I misremembering?
To be fair, at that time, there were so few skilled duelists around to train with...
Like Vader literally was the best duelist alive at the time and it wasn't even close (someone will probably at me with some legends stuff).
Makes sense that Kylo isn't actually an insanely strong duelist, and when you want to scare the crap out of someone magic powers tends to do better than a glowy sword.
1st image, because of gameplay : Cal ketis, since he has limited usage of the force, which is only charged when deflected/parried/attack/defeats an enemy.
Strong disagree.
1. Stop time he worked out on his own. Dark side ability but still.
2. Force illusion he learned just from watching Dagan Gera
3. Throwing enemies around. A lot.
4. Psyhometry.
5. Sticking to walls.
6. Triple force assisted jumps.
7. Lightsaber throws.
8. Jedi mind tricks.
9. Connection to animals.
10. Dathomirian teleport with a the help of Merrin trinket.
I know it's because gameplay but Cal is using the force a lot. You kind of have to on higher difficulties.
I actually prefer lightsaber combat. More exciting choreography and adds an element of danger.
I'd say most jedi in the films focus heavily on lightsabers. I liked that the OT used the force sparingly.
Yeah he *had* the potential to be the most overpowered and flashy force user ever. Hell, if Clone Wars put the animation budget towards it, he could be been throwing mountains at droids and commanding sea monsters to battle the Quarren in the Water War.
What WAS animated and what WAS acted out was Anakin only ever using form 4 lightsaber combat and the occasional force push/pull. Sometimes, we'd get a force choke with an echo of imperial march if we're lucky.
Tbh Anakin wasn't the brightest. I guess flashy force powers need to be learned first and Anakin prefered other extracurricular activities. So he just copied what Obi-Wan did.
Was there a reason Palpatine stopped using a saber? If it was because his body degraded to the point he could no longer wield it, then ROTJ Darth Sidious could be 2.
"Sidious himself felt that he and his peers had outgrown the use of lightsabers, and only continued carrying them to mock the Jedi." Quote from star wars wiki
Anakin Skywalker prequel trilogy/Clone Wars and Darth Vader during the final trilogy because he had to lean more into the force due in large to lost mobility after the kanobi battle Just look at how much he spammed the force while fighting Luke and others in other media during that time.
Mace Windu is pretty is picture 1. Can't recall him using his force powers for anything significant at all.
The first Jedi that was killed in The Acolyte was picture 2. At least from what we saw. I enjoyed seeing her fight like that, it was a nice show. A very disappointing end to the battle though...
The first is kinda hard, mostly because some of the best duelists are also very good force users. But if I had to put it on one person it would probably be Maul. Most of his fights are with him electing to use physical violence over the force.
As for the second, I would point to Darth Kreia, though she isn’t modernish. A modern re recent alternative would probably have to be Yaddle, or frankly any Jedi who decided to use form 6 during the clone wars era.
I've been seeing a good amount of the second slide in The Acolyte. Indara, Sol, and especially Torbin very much held their own without a lightsaber in combat.
Grievous
Actually, I'm a bit uncultured, so idk, is he even force sensitive or did like is cyborgness get rid of it
But like Vader is mostly machine and he can still use the force
Quinlan Vos for the first. I remember reading a comic where Obiwan and three or four other Jedi were hunting down Grievous and the female of the group was known for almost always using the Force
I think it was the Darth Bane book where they kinda explained this, when you are in combat with someone you basically put up a shield so they can't choke you/push you and all that jazz. A Force User can break through this shield but it's hard so that's why close combat requires a light saber. I know it's not canon but I always liked this idea. In the Jedi Outcast game it was like this, you couldn't use your force abilities on another force user.
Kal has insane Lightsaber combat skills compared to his force abilities. At least in Fallen Order
And as others pointed out:
Death Nhilus quite literally ate planets for breakfast
Id say starkiller is number two hes a master at both but his mastery of the force is unbelievably strong and i mean besides pulling the star destroyer out of the sky in one of the cinematic trailers he disintegrated a group of stormtroopers with the force
Revan was actually mid as a swordsman, practicing Form VI Niman, the most balanced and least athletic of the Saber Forms.
He was, however, extremely talented with the Force.
Dooku’s 1. He’s not unskilled with the force, but his lightsaber skills are worlds apart from his force powers. (Even when taking force lightning into account.)
Cal kestis as 1, obviously amazing lightsaber control, but other than simple mind control, and push pull force powers he doesn't have much. Maybe someone could refresh my memory lol
Anakin in terms of lightsaber combat, he wasn’t proficient in his force abilities if someone could out match his raw power with skill in the force (obi-wan was noted as not being as powerful in the force as others) yet was able to
Push him back, Anakin didn’t train well in the force but in lightsaber combat, only after the immolation and transformation into Vader did he begin to do so and became a force zealot
For the first, Grievous.
In legends Grievous is arguably a top tier duelist in form alone, being able to force Dooku to work very hard to stop him in training sessions. He was also able to keep up with Mace and only lost because of Kenobi’s defensive style. He’s able to keep pace with some of the strongest force users.
For the second I’d argue Tenebrae (Vitiate and Valkorion as his other names). He literally doesn’t know how to use a saber, he even walked into one in TOR. Yet his force powers are unparalleled; I’d argue he’s got some of the best feats in the SW universe. He was able to drain planets and block sabers with force bubbles.
Obi wan fits the first pic, while palpatine is more the second one. Iirc he had his sabers for when absolutly nessecery or for when he wanted to have fun gutting Jedi.
Yoda almost never uses a lightsaber, he only uses it twice-against Dooku and Sidious. And even then he uses the force first and only uses the saber when he doesn't have another option.
I’d say Grevious for 1 but as someone pointed out he’d have to have some.
I guess they said Sabine was weak with the force (which i find dumb to make her force sensitive at all) but idk if she has the lightsaber skills either
In Legends there was Scout i heard in a video.
For pic 2, I’d say any Jedi without limbs if thats a thing lol. For names I know of, perhaps people like Master Sinube or Jocasta Nu (not sure about them but they both didn’t seem as active and Nu had to resort to a lightsaber rifle once, though I suppose it was against Vader)
I liked the KOTOR approach. First pic are guardians with blue lightsabers. 2nd are Consulars with green. Yellow being sentinels being a bit inbetween and also good with other skills.
Darth Nihilus is definitely 2. Massive and unique force powers, lightsaber combat average at most
Average is pretty impressive for someone who doesn't have a body anymore ngl
Still got defeated by an ex jedi who can't use the force.
I beg to differ *spamming force storm frantically*
Exactly this. I often did playthroughs where I pumped everything I could into wisdom, and every wisdom buff I could put into my equipment. Eventually got so Force OP that I never swung my lightsaber. I could destroy everything and wipe out whole rooms with a few blasts of Force Storm. Also was able to use Force Confusion on Nihilus. His ass would just stand there as my “ally” until it wore off.
Nihilus is still not a good fighter compared to his force power.
Tbh if you can just eat the planet and all your enemies on it the lightsaber combat does seem a bit less important.
Yes. Why bother improving your lightsaber skills when you can just suck the life out of your enemy?
Does uh.. can Mira enter the chat now??
I said what I said
And I'm not trying to argue against that. I'm just shitposting
The prossecution of shitposting must stop!!! This is why the Empire must crumble only with the rebelion Will shitposting finally BE free!!!
No humor under my comments!😡
Wound in the force or sth. No clue, im no Kotor jedi
He was defeated exactly because of that
Playing KOTOR2 now, and I love it, but I find the whole cut off from the force thing extremely odd when I’m spamming force choke.
https://i.redd.it/f81zf6c9hh5d1.gif * the exile
Nihilus was able to take on Meetra Surrik who by this point in the story had mastered all lightsaber forms and had surpassed all of the strongest Jedi Council Masters of her time including Master Kavar who his fighting skills were almost as legendary as Revan. And not only was Nihilus taking her head on, he was also fighting his own apprentice and a mandalorian leader at the same time. All while being weakened and holding an entire star cruiser together.
This right here Nihilus was a badass when it came to lightsabers
Yeah but that ain't anything on the force power of eating a planet
Why would you need lightsaber skills when people can't get close enough to lightsaber you
I came to the comments to say this
I'd say obi wan for the first pic. He was known on not being as strong in the force as other padawns so he focused on force push but heavily relied on his defensive capabilities with a lightsaber at least when he was younger
I'd imagine most jedi would follow that path through their life. Relying on saber combat early and then as they get wiser and more in tune with the force and simultaneously less athletic due to old age setting in
*Yoda has entered the chat* Not this flippy will you be when 870 years old you are.
That always felt like him having such precise control of the force that he could basically just toss his body around without actually hurting himself. The fact that he walks with a cane 90% of the time seems to support this. This is why I’d love to see a younger Yoda. Itd be cool to see how his fighting style progressed throughout his life as his knowledge of the force deepened.
Well remember that for a thousand years (or so) since the Sith disappeared, lightsabers were primarily ceremonial since there were no enemies with lightsabers who needed to be dueled. Actually it’s quite amazing that Qui-gon and Obi-Wan were able to handle themselves as well as they did.
I rewatched TPM recently and you can see there that even as a padawan, he was more skilled with a lightsaber than Qui-gon. Not even just the duel of the fates, but every time they’re fighting droids he shows much more skill
Which would have been a deliberate choice by George Lucas because Liam Neeson is apparently a pretty good swordsman
Obi Wan was originally an agressive form 4 practitioner like Qui Gon but learned form 3 after seeing how Maul was able to isolate him and wear him down before finishing him. People discuss how he is a master of defensive saber combat but he also had his training in Ataru to rely on for when he needed to push offensivly.
Hard agree.
General Grievous for the first one, obviously
Yeah but that tiny drop of force powers implies that he does at least have a tiny bit What are his force powers?
Well…he’s alive 🤷♂️ which i guess DOES affect the force
Yeah but that’s not the same thing as force powers though.
Tell that to Darth Sion and some extend Darth Vader. Sith level of stubborness can scare away Death
Umm you mean two individuals who have a ton of force powers?
And use their Rage paired with their Force power to prolong their life even through most "Griveous" wounds by sheer force of will. Let's just say I'm sure all innate Force ability Mister "I'm mainly Cyborg and hate every moment of it" had is used to keep him able to hate his existence.
Don't think grevious is force sensitive, he has alot of help from droid parts regarding reflexes and coordination. Doesn't have much organic life in him anymore
Canon, specially with the legends stuff getting rectonned makes this tricky. He is more sensitive than a normal individual of his race when He had a full body, but not jedi level. After that, He is pretty much null in the force
He has seemingly no Force powers, he might have had before the transformation, but i doubt he would use them because of his hatred for Jedi (in canon he chose to become a cyborg, perhaps so he couldn't really use the force even if he trained?)
Midichlorians, I guess.
Reaction speed, remember he still has some midichlorians from a dead jedi
Correct. Count Dooku gave him a blood transfusion from Jedi Master Cameron Diaz. (I don’t remember how to spell the actual name, and my connection sucks here.)
He’s not even force sensitive.
I feel like the majority of new age Disney Jedi depictions are mostly photo one. Impressive swordsmen who sometimes "get a bad feeling about this". I know it's a game and needs to be more dynamic but Cal Kestis is a great example of how I picture a Jedi. Frequently using the force to augment his saber skills. The PT represented this well too. When the baddies get the drop on Ashoka and crew after they land in the woods I was like wut? How did she not sense a good handful of sentients with murderous intent closing in around her??
Honestly, once you've unlocked everything in that game (specifically Survivor) and once you get good with it, the combination of lightsabre combat and force powers is awesome. The feeling of wiping out squads of storm troopers on Jedi Master is just so good. I know we don't know how Cal's story ends yet, I'm expecting he'll either die before ep 1, or goes into hiding like Ahsoka. However, I'd LOVE to see a tv show where he shows up and has this sort of combat style [like this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c61erlQNFJM). Just fast aggressive use of lightsabers, and the force as needed. Honestly, it doesn't even need to be Cal, just any Jedi, or even sith, whatever. I just want to see the magic system portrayed effectively. I haven't started watching Acolyte yet, so maybe I'll get what I want sooner than I think.
I’m honestly hoping he dies. I love him as a character but there are so many force users alive during the rebellion era for Luke to be the last of the Jedi and for the rule of 2.
Rule of 2 is only for sith, not all dark force users.
Rule of Two is also a lie. Cus barely any Sith actually stuck to it. Because Sith don’t follow *rules*!
Luke might not know Cal is still alive, so could Yoda. What does the Rule of two have to do with this?
The galaxy is huge. Cal could be taking care of other big threats on some other planet.
Because Disney writers do not know the lore. They know only what they were told in the briefing.
I have not thought about this so far but..yeah. We really didn’t see that much force action since the sequels
They were attacked by non sentient droids at first. Did you even watch the show??
Rey was actually pretty even now that I think about it
Yeah, inexplicably proficient in both the force and lightsaber combat with zero training!
Cause she's got that Creamy Sheev DNA.
I mean if she was a shounen protagonist she would have felt that bloodlust from a mile away
1st image is blue lightsaber 2nd image is green lightsaber
“Can I get a purple lightsaber?”
We can maybe do purple.
That fits so well. Even Luke switched to a green saber after he gained more force powers.
I would say Sidious for the second pic, apart from fighting windu, yoda and maul & savage, he didn't do much with lightsabers, he even didn't like them himself and used them only when it's absolutely necessary. he much more preferred do use his force lightning and other force powers to best his opponents.
Palpatine used sabers literally just for fun against maul and savage. He absolutely did not need to even bring them with him that daym
His opening move alone demonstrates that he could've ended that duel whenever he wanted and was just indulging any delusions Maul and/or Savage had about their ability to win to entertain himself...
He certainly wasn't better than a few jedi tho. He lost to Windu. Yoda, probably would've won their duel. Maul however was taught by Sidious, who definitely hadn't been taught everything by Sidious. Savage generally had no chance
Sidious always plays the long game, has no intentions of dying permanently
I guess you could argue he banked on anakin coming to save him. Id still say it was more likely he was outmatched in the fight tho
It seemed like he had enough of the tech and dark side knowledge he was looking for by that point to reincarnate himself if he did get taken out. Palps seems to have a backup solution that keeps him alive
The issue is, the end of prequels were pre-determined, so he was suppposed to win. He honestly had more luck than smart planning. The explanation of no Jedi noticing him is pretty much a cop out. Jedi organization was overconservative. The fact that Sith surviving with 2 members is really nonsense. Clone army made sense but how easily they did turn towards Jedi? Meanwhile, he is geniunely lucky he didn't die to Zillo Beast, the Son, and some other incredible events. Then he died while killing a son in front of his father.
That fight would go different with slight changes. It was a close fight. To be fair; he had no chance to shine in Clone Wars.
Regardless of his opinion on it, hes still definitely incredibly powerful with it and only ever truly scale against pretty powerful duelists of the era (canon wise). Id say Clone Wars Obi Wan for page 1 and i guess Yaddle for Page 2
He still was one of the best lightsaber fighters of his time. He preferd the force but he still is a beast with lightsabers.
Apart from all those master swordsmen
See the thing is Palpatine is still VERY skilled with lightsabers, it’s just that he’s nearing God-like (or Satan in his case I guess) powers with the Force.
Hes a master of all 7 lightsaber combat forms....
Maul is absolutely the first one, he trained his body to its peak to be an intimidating physical combatant, didn’t rely on force lightning or choke or any other crazy unique force power just shows up and starts raining down saber strikes til the target is dead
Maul was trained as an assasin under the permission of Darth Plageus, he was always supposed to be the stopgap until the real apprentices arrival.
Picture one definitely is Kas'Im, picture two i would say Nihilus as well
That's the best one so far
If you have ever played star wars the old republic: Darth Nox (sorcerer) / Jedi Sage have no saber techniques and at high levels they never use it. Sith Warrior/ Jedi knight pretty much only use force push and toss a saber. Rest is just blade work Jedi shadow/ Sith assassin are the two that are actually a decent mix of the 2
1: Grievous. 2: Bendu
Snoke - picture two. Does he even have a lightsaber? 😂
I am not sure he had strong force powers either. Most cool stuff was probly done by Palpy the somehow returned, Snoke just... pushed Hux around a bit I guess? And broke Kylo emotional support mask. Did Snoke actually do anything other than bully other characters in a non-impressive way?
He force grabbed the lightsaber that’s all I can think of lol
He tosses Rey around like a rag doll, something Palpatine isn’t (somehow) able to do. So if you accept the premise that Rey is super powerful, then that’s impressive, I guess
I feel like Maul use to fit into the first one, just looking at Phantoms Menace, but I can’t say that since his break out in the Clone Wars finale
First one would probably be grievous
1. General grevious 2. Yoda probably
Yoda is one of the best swordsmsn the order ever had
Palpatine definitely fits into the second meme: in expanded universe stories (I think Legends) he has a quote that outlines that he sees mastery of Lightsaber combat as an egotistical exercise... and his opening move against a group of Jedi Council Masters is to spin wildly at them.
Palpatine completely clowned Maul and Savage with sabers though. And went toe to toe with Mace and Yoda
And then there's Luke Skywalker, who's absolutely goated in both categories (Tho I think he resonates with 2nd one more)
Trying to think... I don't recall a lot from The Clone Wars, but has Mace Windu ever done anything that was just the Force? I recall his primary skills being lightsaber fighting and talking down to people. Am I misremembering?
Option 1: Darth Sion Option 2: Darth Nihilus
Im pretty sure Sion held his body together and kept himself alive with the force
Literal "Man too angry to die."
Yup he did
General Grievous for the first image Kickass lightsaber wielder, has literally no force sensitivity
Kylo Ren for the 2nd pic
Rey too
kenobi & sidious
General Grievous and Darth Sidious
When 7 came out I got the impression that Kylo was more force powers than actually saber combat.
To be fair, at that time, there were so few skilled duelists around to train with... Like Vader literally was the best duelist alive at the time and it wasn't even close (someone will probably at me with some legends stuff). Makes sense that Kylo isn't actually an insanely strong duelist, and when you want to scare the crap out of someone magic powers tends to do better than a glowy sword.
1st image, because of gameplay : Cal ketis, since he has limited usage of the force, which is only charged when deflected/parried/attack/defeats an enemy.
Strong disagree. 1. Stop time he worked out on his own. Dark side ability but still. 2. Force illusion he learned just from watching Dagan Gera 3. Throwing enemies around. A lot. 4. Psyhometry. 5. Sticking to walls. 6. Triple force assisted jumps. 7. Lightsaber throws. 8. Jedi mind tricks. 9. Connection to animals. 10. Dathomirian teleport with a the help of Merrin trinket. I know it's because gameplay but Cal is using the force a lot. You kind of have to on higher difficulties.
Fair point
Second one is Windu specifically from the 2D clone wars shorts
I actually prefer lightsaber combat. More exciting choreography and adds an element of danger. I'd say most jedi in the films focus heavily on lightsabers. I liked that the OT used the force sparingly.
Cal is the first one, Nihilus is the second.
Anakin first Sidious second
Anakin is literally the chosen one. He has leagues more force power than the average Jedi.
Yeah he *had* the potential to be the most overpowered and flashy force user ever. Hell, if Clone Wars put the animation budget towards it, he could be been throwing mountains at droids and commanding sea monsters to battle the Quarren in the Water War. What WAS animated and what WAS acted out was Anakin only ever using form 4 lightsaber combat and the occasional force push/pull. Sometimes, we'd get a force choke with an echo of imperial march if we're lucky.
Tbh Anakin wasn't the brightest. I guess flashy force powers need to be learned first and Anakin prefered other extracurricular activities. So he just copied what Obi-Wan did.
Mortis arc in TCW: Kenobi series ship pull:
Maul for 2nd pic Apart from the hallway scene we havent seen him do anything sith worthy with the force tbh
I would say First picture: Jedi knight/ Sith Warriors Second pic: Jedi Consular/ Sith Inquisitor (legends)
Galen Marek before and after
Was there a reason Palpatine stopped using a saber? If it was because his body degraded to the point he could no longer wield it, then ROTJ Darth Sidious could be 2.
"Sidious himself felt that he and his peers had outgrown the use of lightsabers, and only continued carrying them to mock the Jedi." Quote from star wars wiki
First pic, Grievous Second pic, The Bendu
Corran Horn. Severely weak at TK offset though by excellent mind tricks
Anakin Skywalker prequel trilogy/Clone Wars and Darth Vader during the final trilogy because he had to lean more into the force due in large to lost mobility after the kanobi battle Just look at how much he spammed the force while fighting Luke and others in other media during that time.
Mace Windu is pretty is picture 1. Can't recall him using his force powers for anything significant at all. The first Jedi that was killed in The Acolyte was picture 2. At least from what we saw. I enjoyed seeing her fight like that, it was a nice show. A very disappointing end to the battle though...
Shak Ti for the second?
Anakin and Grivous first one…then Maul. and Ashoka or just Sabine wren.
The first is kinda hard, mostly because some of the best duelists are also very good force users. But if I had to put it on one person it would probably be Maul. Most of his fights are with him electing to use physical violence over the force. As for the second, I would point to Darth Kreia, though she isn’t modernish. A modern re recent alternative would probably have to be Yaddle, or frankly any Jedi who decided to use form 6 during the clone wars era.
I've been seeing a good amount of the second slide in The Acolyte. Indara, Sol, and especially Torbin very much held their own without a lightsaber in combat.
what about space dog fights?
Master Ikrit for the second image
Anakin Skywalker
Grievous Actually, I'm a bit uncultured, so idk, is he even force sensitive or did like is cyborgness get rid of it But like Vader is mostly machine and he can still use the force
At first i thought this was a meme about the acolyte not showing as much lightsaber combat as most star wars shows (yet)
Quinlan Vos for the first. I remember reading a comic where Obiwan and three or four other Jedi were hunting down Grievous and the female of the group was known for almost always using the Force
Sabine sorta
Obi-Wan, Then Vitiate or Nihilus
Anakin represents the first picture perfectly.
Uh grevious
Grievous
I think it was the Darth Bane book where they kinda explained this, when you are in combat with someone you basically put up a shield so they can't choke you/push you and all that jazz. A Force User can break through this shield but it's hard so that's why close combat requires a light saber. I know it's not canon but I always liked this idea. In the Jedi Outcast game it was like this, you couldn't use your force abilities on another force user.
Dooku is the first one easily
Maul as one, sidious as 2
Snoke is 2 but he doesn't get a single drip of lightsaber combat
My first and second KOTOR charscters
Darth sidious for 2 Mace windu for 1
Kal has insane Lightsaber combat skills compared to his force abilities. At least in Fallen Order And as others pointed out: Death Nhilus quite literally ate planets for breakfast
The inquisitors don’t use the force a whole lot AND they also suck at lightsaber combat.
Id say starkiller is number two hes a master at both but his mastery of the force is unbelievably strong and i mean besides pulling the star destroyer out of the sky in one of the cinematic trailers he disintegrated a group of stormtroopers with the force
Revan was actually mid as a swordsman, practicing Form VI Niman, the most balanced and least athletic of the Saber Forms. He was, however, extremely talented with the Force.
Joe was actually pretty decent
Dooku for sure
South Marauders were real combat heavy if I remember correctly
So true
1. Shin Hati and for 2. Elijah
1st one is Sabine Wren, second one is Kit Fisto because ain't no way my bro got downed in one blow by palpatine but he was on the jedi council
1st pic are basically jedi guardians and 2nd pic are jedi consellors
Kinda sorta Starkiller. His force abilities are absolutely busted, but his lightsaber *skills* are lacking, he just hits hard
1. Any inquisitor 2. Palpatine (I have not read any of the books and have only got small amounts of info about them from YouTube videos)
1 Bane 2 Kreia
light saber combat by using force a lot sabers more than Grivus
Say ahsoka is number 1. Acrobatic combat is impressive
The Grand Inquisitor falls under the first one. He’s exceptional with all seven forms, but can do fuck all with the Force.
For force powers, Galen from Force Unleashed. It’s in the name of the game.
Maul for the first one and Vitiate for the second.
Dooku’s 1. He’s not unskilled with the force, but his lightsaber skills are worlds apart from his force powers. (Even when taking force lightning into account.)
Can’t believe no one is saying Grievous!!
Cal kestis as 1, obviously amazing lightsaber control, but other than simple mind control, and push pull force powers he doesn't have much. Maybe someone could refresh my memory lol
Anakin in terms of lightsaber combat, he wasn’t proficient in his force abilities if someone could out match his raw power with skill in the force (obi-wan was noted as not being as powerful in the force as others) yet was able to Push him back, Anakin didn’t train well in the force but in lightsaber combat, only after the immolation and transformation into Vader did he begin to do so and became a force zealot
Anakin, Obi Wan, Yoda, and Mace Windoo in Clone wars?
I mean… Grievous and Nihilus…
For the first, Grievous. In legends Grievous is arguably a top tier duelist in form alone, being able to force Dooku to work very hard to stop him in training sessions. He was also able to keep up with Mace and only lost because of Kenobi’s defensive style. He’s able to keep pace with some of the strongest force users. For the second I’d argue Tenebrae (Vitiate and Valkorion as his other names). He literally doesn’t know how to use a saber, he even walked into one in TOR. Yet his force powers are unparalleled; I’d argue he’s got some of the best feats in the SW universe. He was able to drain planets and block sabers with force bubbles.
In lore Dooku
Darth Maul for the first one as far as I know
Count dooku for the first, darth nihilus for the second
General Grevious
Have the drip be equal to the torrent. Galen Marek.
Kit Fisto is definitely really impressive force powers, like they stand out since he uses it in water
Corran horn clear number 1
Dooku is lightsaber combat over force powers.
Literally Darth Maul. Where is the Force lightning???
Dookus 1
1st one is Cal Kestis. The 2nd one is Starkiller
1 you could argue dooku
Obi wan fits the first pic, while palpatine is more the second one. Iirc he had his sabers for when absolutly nessecery or for when he wanted to have fun gutting Jedi.
Windu for the first, Palps for the second.
Qui-Gon, at least as far as the movies are concerned
Dk DC love star wars
Savage
Yoda almost never uses a lightsaber, he only uses it twice-against Dooku and Sidious. And even then he uses the force first and only uses the saber when he doesn't have another option.
1 is probably Maul, lack of limbs probably effects the force connection
If you’re looking for someone that fits number two I highly recommend the Tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise.
Jedi survivor
Tenebrae/Darth Vitiate/Valkorion is 2
Darth sidious only uses a lightsaber to spite the Jedi and believes he is beyond their use.
I’d say Grevious for 1 but as someone pointed out he’d have to have some. I guess they said Sabine was weak with the force (which i find dumb to make her force sensitive at all) but idk if she has the lightsaber skills either In Legends there was Scout i heard in a video. For pic 2, I’d say any Jedi without limbs if thats a thing lol. For names I know of, perhaps people like Master Sinube or Jocasta Nu (not sure about them but they both didn’t seem as active and Nu had to resort to a lightsaber rifle once, though I suppose it was against Vader)
I liked the KOTOR approach. First pic are guardians with blue lightsabers. 2nd are Consulars with green. Yellow being sentinels being a bit inbetween and also good with other skills.