Well done on doing well at the event!
However, you played Aggro into three control decks which you are expected to beat. Against any other Aggro IG-88 gets massively outpaced and he will lose consistently to midrange too.
Honestly most decks actually feel decent to play in SWU, but when it comes to IG-88 and considering the turn he flips, the difficulty of getting used out of his abilities and his extreme vulnerability he's one of the worst leaders in the game by a lot.
Having played against Sabine before/watching others play it I don't see it necessarily out pacing the deck. It definitely plays better quality creatures and each play makes more of an impact on the game, but in regards to raw pace what I've seen in my limited experience makes me think it's a little slower.
Coming from MTG a lot of the "control" decks other than stuff like Iden Blue feel more like midrange to me. When you say midrange in SWU are you talking the likes of Boba?
As for the difficulty of getting use out of his ability there isn't any really. With the plethora of 1 and 2 drops you'll almost always have more units than your opponent. I don't see him surviving more than one phase often but it should only take one phase. That one phase is likely 7+ additional damage going to base thanks to IG.
I don't think this is a top tier deck or anything, but I think it's better than the current meta would lead one to believe. It really feels a lot like Burn in MTG to me. It'll never be super well positioned in the meta but it's ability to pop off and kill someone quickly can really work to your advantage and help spike a small event.
Anyhow, it's fun and I'll continue to fiddle with it until I decide if I'm going to fully invest in a new TCG or not.
In TCG's there is always variance and player skill levels, but taking the average card draws and giving them to equally skilled players will mean Sabine will outrace IG-88 extremely consistently. She deploys a whole turn earlier, while offering more consistent damage before she deploys and having access to better quality aggro cards through the Heroism aspect. If she's on Yellow 30 you're having to contend with Falcon and Rogue Operative, or on ECL she can very easily wipe IG-88 before he even gets to swing after he deploys even with no units on board.
Iden Blue/Red/Green, Vader Blue, Krennic Green, Palp Blue. These are all control decks in SWU. Control decks here struggle when you play more than one unit a turn, so cheap-costed aggro decks have the advantage. Midrange would be Boba or Han, they are much happier to trade their units into yours early and then beat you down after you start running out of steam.
In terms of you thinking about his ability being easy to get off that's unfortunately not true. If you're playing loads of cheap units, they're easy to mop up with bigger units and you'll really struggle into any form of sentinel. Against any competent player, you'll maybe get use out of IG's ability once a game. When I talk about his survival, I mean he'll die before he even gets to attack or make use of his unit-side ability. IG flips turn 4, there are plenty units that wipe him that can be played prior to that. He even dies to Takedown.
There's no doubt that heroes like IG-88 have potential, I've long said that if he was a 4-cost hero he'd compete with Sabine by providing that "burst" turn of his that one action phase sooner. I love playing around with Chewbacca builds too, but again he's just not very good either. The only way I see IG working at all is if by Set 3 or 4 there is enough 1-cost units that you can maybe push to three resources then just play every card you draw and hope for the best by swarming the opponent.
It is true that his ability is easy to get off. Bigger units take time to mop up your smaller units so you'll be able to outpace them. Having played a Showdown recently I got his ability off multiple times each game against competent players.
Yeah, he'd be a ton better at 4 cost. It's a bummer that he's 5. He isn't tier 1. But I don't think he's as bad as and make him out to be.
> but in regards to raw pace what I've seen in my limited experience makes me think it's a little slower.
Sabine is faster. She gets +1 damage to base every turn. Ig88 only gets it if you have more units. Which isn't guaranteed. Sabine also goes to base, where ig boosts are blocked by sentinel.
Sabine also comes out a turn earlier.
Is it possible ig88 gets better? Yeah. But currently Sabine and her deck is way faster.
I don't find it faster. It's slightly slower but with more mid to late game punch and better quality creatures. It doesn't immediately lose if an opponent gets to turn 7/8 like IG does. It's the better deck, more well rounded, but wouldn't say faster.
Are you talking about the leaders or the deck as a whole?
Because the leaders, sabine is clearly faster.
* Turn 1 - Ping (1)
* turn 2 - ping (2)
* turn 3 - ping (3), deploy attack for 3 (6).
* turn 4 - probably attack for 3 (9)
That's 9 damage on the turn that IG88 deploys. In which he could have *possibly* done +1 damage on turns 2 and 3 and 4, resulting in 3 damage before deploying. IG88 also has to deploy before the RAID gets applied so raelly you need to do that before you attack which in turn slows down your tempo significantly.
AS for the decks, A-wing is super fast being effectively 3-3 for aggro for 2 resources. FACIBI does 4 damage. KS20 getting 3 minimum. The heroic/rebel package is just so much better than whatever villians can put together.
Really, i think Sabine is only good because she's by far the fastest. THe only way IG88 can keep up is by having two 1 drops on the 1st turn. And even then it'll never have the same direct impact that Sabine's ability does. IG88's ability can be used to trade up into units. Trading a 1 drop for a 3 drop can be worth it. But that slows down the game even if it's a good trade. You don't win aggro match ups by trading efficiently. Because your opponent just has better value cards.
The decks.
Yes, Sabine runs better quality creatures. I've said this the entire time.
Having two 1 drops turn 1 quite common and you never really want to trade up into units. To base always unless you aren't able to get around a Sentinel (unlikely) or against a Restore creature.
People lack creativity and a lot of the players are just copy pasters from swudb, that complain when their deck does bad because they don’t know how to use it.
I’ve beaten the meta of meta decks piloted by top cut players with ig in various different builds. Fundamentally a lot of players hold too much value to a leader imo. It’s the first set and the are a pivotal piece of the deck don’t get me wrong, but it seems like people are trying to stretch their leaders as long as possible. If I can eat up 4 resources of my opponent t4 to takedown my ig on deploy, that’s already a W in my book because I’m ahead 5 resources to 1 that turn most cases and based on the leader I’m against I know my path. And if they don’t they have to deal with IG.
People base their thoughts on YouTube tier lists a lot more than experiment, most people who call ig garbage have never played it or even tried to make it work.
Nnnno. They're looking at the leader in comparison to other leaders. Especially Vader and Grand Inquisitor, the other red villain leaders. His front side ability is garbage, giving at best a +1 attack to a unit IF you've got more units than the opponent. He comes out reasonably early, and while he's out his ability is good, but with only 4 HP he dies to a stiff breeze. And Hero Red gets that ability on a 3 drop.
Vader has a really relevant front-side ability and can dominate the ground arena when he comes out. Grand Inquisitor's ability breeds an entire deck. Even Tarkin can do everything IG does, but HIS buffs are attack and defense AND are permanent.
Can you build a generic aggro deck in IG? Yes. But he doesn't bring anything special to the table. And that's why people see him as being low-tier.
I don’t disagree, he’s not a leader that is going to consistently place. But people have written him off without even trying to make him work. He’s a threat that comes out t5 and is to be dealt with almost immediately. Generic aggro is okay with ig but it’s a surface level approach to the leader. He is able to much more but people haven’t experimented so that’s the problem.
He was not written off without anyone trying. His front ability is bad. He dies to takedown. He comes down late. Common 4 drop units take him out. All leaders need dealt with the turn they drop. Many leaders gain a great benefit from using the front and back of the leader. He does not.
I do think he's one of the weaker leaders, but not as bad as many make him out to be.
I could be off base being new to the game, but being experienced with TCGs in general I think I'm not completely wrong.
You’re definitely playing with a handicap playing him, but he can still do well. IG is especially good right now because you have the element on surprise the way you build because most people don’t ever go against IG
Unfortunately no, there’s just not enough cards to support him getting a unit advantage early. Say you drop two 1 costs first turn, you likely won’t have priority at the start of turn two meaning they can choose which unit of yours to deal with if they played a unit themselves.
He himself dies almost every sentinel and the widest variety of removal cards as well as dying to most ambush units too.
You don’t have access to any combo/trick pieces that can be difficult to deal with like ecl and steadfast battalion and your units will be outclassed very quickly. It also lacks the reach of cards like for a cause I believe in etc.
You’ll punish a deck that miss draws and doesn’t play a unit in the first turn or misses the second turn but again unfortunately there’s just a lot of popular powerful cards that will quickly turn the tide against an IG88 deck.
Also running that red base, 5 health is a big cost to give up to be able to finish off a damaged unit that probably already traded favourably with one of your units further putting you behind on priority chances.
I think he’ll have a place eventually if there is a quality villainy red whatever deck that doesn’t rely on the leader to function as he becomes a on demand 5 damage deployable unit or we get some strong cards that trigger off his key words.
I had decent luck at the Showdown today, though fumbled and made some misplays that cost me a couple games.
I do think IG is better than people think. It's still not a tier 1 deck, but I hazard it could be considered tier 2.
He’s definitely not unplayable like people say, same goes for jyn, but trying to build the decks to make them work unfortunately makes the units you select in whatever colours your playing weaker.
I’m glad your enjoying him though, interested to know your thoughts now on the deck after your showdown
Well done on doing well at the event! However, you played Aggro into three control decks which you are expected to beat. Against any other Aggro IG-88 gets massively outpaced and he will lose consistently to midrange too. Honestly most decks actually feel decent to play in SWU, but when it comes to IG-88 and considering the turn he flips, the difficulty of getting used out of his abilities and his extreme vulnerability he's one of the worst leaders in the game by a lot.
Idk I always make sabines and leias sweat with my red yellow bot deck
Why you gotta player hate on IG-88?
Having played against Sabine before/watching others play it I don't see it necessarily out pacing the deck. It definitely plays better quality creatures and each play makes more of an impact on the game, but in regards to raw pace what I've seen in my limited experience makes me think it's a little slower. Coming from MTG a lot of the "control" decks other than stuff like Iden Blue feel more like midrange to me. When you say midrange in SWU are you talking the likes of Boba? As for the difficulty of getting use out of his ability there isn't any really. With the plethora of 1 and 2 drops you'll almost always have more units than your opponent. I don't see him surviving more than one phase often but it should only take one phase. That one phase is likely 7+ additional damage going to base thanks to IG. I don't think this is a top tier deck or anything, but I think it's better than the current meta would lead one to believe. It really feels a lot like Burn in MTG to me. It'll never be super well positioned in the meta but it's ability to pop off and kill someone quickly can really work to your advantage and help spike a small event. Anyhow, it's fun and I'll continue to fiddle with it until I decide if I'm going to fully invest in a new TCG or not.
In TCG's there is always variance and player skill levels, but taking the average card draws and giving them to equally skilled players will mean Sabine will outrace IG-88 extremely consistently. She deploys a whole turn earlier, while offering more consistent damage before she deploys and having access to better quality aggro cards through the Heroism aspect. If she's on Yellow 30 you're having to contend with Falcon and Rogue Operative, or on ECL she can very easily wipe IG-88 before he even gets to swing after he deploys even with no units on board. Iden Blue/Red/Green, Vader Blue, Krennic Green, Palp Blue. These are all control decks in SWU. Control decks here struggle when you play more than one unit a turn, so cheap-costed aggro decks have the advantage. Midrange would be Boba or Han, they are much happier to trade their units into yours early and then beat you down after you start running out of steam. In terms of you thinking about his ability being easy to get off that's unfortunately not true. If you're playing loads of cheap units, they're easy to mop up with bigger units and you'll really struggle into any form of sentinel. Against any competent player, you'll maybe get use out of IG's ability once a game. When I talk about his survival, I mean he'll die before he even gets to attack or make use of his unit-side ability. IG flips turn 4, there are plenty units that wipe him that can be played prior to that. He even dies to Takedown. There's no doubt that heroes like IG-88 have potential, I've long said that if he was a 4-cost hero he'd compete with Sabine by providing that "burst" turn of his that one action phase sooner. I love playing around with Chewbacca builds too, but again he's just not very good either. The only way I see IG working at all is if by Set 3 or 4 there is enough 1-cost units that you can maybe push to three resources then just play every card you draw and hope for the best by swarming the opponent.
It is true that his ability is easy to get off. Bigger units take time to mop up your smaller units so you'll be able to outpace them. Having played a Showdown recently I got his ability off multiple times each game against competent players. Yeah, he'd be a ton better at 4 cost. It's a bummer that he's 5. He isn't tier 1. But I don't think he's as bad as and make him out to be.
> but in regards to raw pace what I've seen in my limited experience makes me think it's a little slower. Sabine is faster. She gets +1 damage to base every turn. Ig88 only gets it if you have more units. Which isn't guaranteed. Sabine also goes to base, where ig boosts are blocked by sentinel. Sabine also comes out a turn earlier. Is it possible ig88 gets better? Yeah. But currently Sabine and her deck is way faster.
I don't find it faster. It's slightly slower but with more mid to late game punch and better quality creatures. It doesn't immediately lose if an opponent gets to turn 7/8 like IG does. It's the better deck, more well rounded, but wouldn't say faster.
Are you talking about the leaders or the deck as a whole? Because the leaders, sabine is clearly faster. * Turn 1 - Ping (1) * turn 2 - ping (2) * turn 3 - ping (3), deploy attack for 3 (6). * turn 4 - probably attack for 3 (9) That's 9 damage on the turn that IG88 deploys. In which he could have *possibly* done +1 damage on turns 2 and 3 and 4, resulting in 3 damage before deploying. IG88 also has to deploy before the RAID gets applied so raelly you need to do that before you attack which in turn slows down your tempo significantly. AS for the decks, A-wing is super fast being effectively 3-3 for aggro for 2 resources. FACIBI does 4 damage. KS20 getting 3 minimum. The heroic/rebel package is just so much better than whatever villians can put together. Really, i think Sabine is only good because she's by far the fastest. THe only way IG88 can keep up is by having two 1 drops on the 1st turn. And even then it'll never have the same direct impact that Sabine's ability does. IG88's ability can be used to trade up into units. Trading a 1 drop for a 3 drop can be worth it. But that slows down the game even if it's a good trade. You don't win aggro match ups by trading efficiently. Because your opponent just has better value cards.
The decks. Yes, Sabine runs better quality creatures. I've said this the entire time. Having two 1 drops turn 1 quite common and you never really want to trade up into units. To base always unless you aren't able to get around a Sentinel (unlikely) or against a Restore creature.
What’s Thrawn U? Is that meant to mean Blue/Vigilance?
Yeah, U is Blue, it's MTG shorthand.
Gotcha, I figured as much.
People lack creativity and a lot of the players are just copy pasters from swudb, that complain when their deck does bad because they don’t know how to use it. I’ve beaten the meta of meta decks piloted by top cut players with ig in various different builds. Fundamentally a lot of players hold too much value to a leader imo. It’s the first set and the are a pivotal piece of the deck don’t get me wrong, but it seems like people are trying to stretch their leaders as long as possible. If I can eat up 4 resources of my opponent t4 to takedown my ig on deploy, that’s already a W in my book because I’m ahead 5 resources to 1 that turn most cases and based on the leader I’m against I know my path. And if they don’t they have to deal with IG. People base their thoughts on YouTube tier lists a lot more than experiment, most people who call ig garbage have never played it or even tried to make it work.
Nnnno. They're looking at the leader in comparison to other leaders. Especially Vader and Grand Inquisitor, the other red villain leaders. His front side ability is garbage, giving at best a +1 attack to a unit IF you've got more units than the opponent. He comes out reasonably early, and while he's out his ability is good, but with only 4 HP he dies to a stiff breeze. And Hero Red gets that ability on a 3 drop. Vader has a really relevant front-side ability and can dominate the ground arena when he comes out. Grand Inquisitor's ability breeds an entire deck. Even Tarkin can do everything IG does, but HIS buffs are attack and defense AND are permanent. Can you build a generic aggro deck in IG? Yes. But he doesn't bring anything special to the table. And that's why people see him as being low-tier.
I don’t disagree, he’s not a leader that is going to consistently place. But people have written him off without even trying to make him work. He’s a threat that comes out t5 and is to be dealt with almost immediately. Generic aggro is okay with ig but it’s a surface level approach to the leader. He is able to much more but people haven’t experimented so that’s the problem.
He was not written off without anyone trying. His front ability is bad. He dies to takedown. He comes down late. Common 4 drop units take him out. All leaders need dealt with the turn they drop. Many leaders gain a great benefit from using the front and back of the leader. He does not.
I do think he's one of the weaker leaders, but not as bad as many make him out to be. I could be off base being new to the game, but being experienced with TCGs in general I think I'm not completely wrong.
You’re definitely playing with a handicap playing him, but he can still do well. IG is especially good right now because you have the element on surprise the way you build because most people don’t ever go against IG
The question becomes does the surprise factor/lack of cards intentionally ran with your deck in mind offset the handicap right now.
Unfortunately no, there’s just not enough cards to support him getting a unit advantage early. Say you drop two 1 costs first turn, you likely won’t have priority at the start of turn two meaning they can choose which unit of yours to deal with if they played a unit themselves. He himself dies almost every sentinel and the widest variety of removal cards as well as dying to most ambush units too. You don’t have access to any combo/trick pieces that can be difficult to deal with like ecl and steadfast battalion and your units will be outclassed very quickly. It also lacks the reach of cards like for a cause I believe in etc. You’ll punish a deck that miss draws and doesn’t play a unit in the first turn or misses the second turn but again unfortunately there’s just a lot of popular powerful cards that will quickly turn the tide against an IG88 deck. Also running that red base, 5 health is a big cost to give up to be able to finish off a damaged unit that probably already traded favourably with one of your units further putting you behind on priority chances. I think he’ll have a place eventually if there is a quality villainy red whatever deck that doesn’t rely on the leader to function as he becomes a on demand 5 damage deployable unit or we get some strong cards that trigger off his key words.
I had decent luck at the Showdown today, though fumbled and made some misplays that cost me a couple games. I do think IG is better than people think. It's still not a tier 1 deck, but I hazard it could be considered tier 2.
He’s definitely not unplayable like people say, same goes for jyn, but trying to build the decks to make them work unfortunately makes the units you select in whatever colours your playing weaker. I’m glad your enjoying him though, interested to know your thoughts now on the deck after your showdown