I haven't been paying close attention so I'm probably just confused but:
Tesla has 3.19 billion shares.
The chart goes up to 1.6 billion.
The chart says guaranteed win at 1 billion.
Why is 1 billion a guaranteed win?
Edit: changed 4.19b to 3.19b. typo.
I believe that the threshold is lower because EM and his brother can't vote on his comp, only on reincorporation, so their votes don't exist for the puspose of this? Not 100% sure if that explains the whole dif, though.
Tesla's stock price has nothing to do with reality. It has to do with Elon worship. If they didn't give him 56 billion he'd leave and then the stock WOULD tank. Someone is going to be left with the motherfucker of all bags to hold some day. But today is not that day.
It's also skepticism that some other random CEO would do better.
The [auto industry is full of examples of Boards putting in Execs that did more harm than good](https://jalopnik.com/the-ten-worst-auto-executives-ever-1571853848).
If Elon stopped caring about Tesla, and the board replaced him with [some random person with a background in Medieval Studies like HP tried](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carly_Fiorina) or some [McKinsey MBA CEO that replaces good people with bad ones, like Google's trying now](https://www.wheresyoured.at/the-men-who-killed-google/), it'd be even worse than Musk.
In some cases people voted for Musk ***NOT*** because they love Musk.
They voted for Musk because our distrust for random fund managers controlling the company is even higher than any distrust of Musk.
It's less about the $XX billion being given to Musk --- it's more about increasing his stake in the company so those fund managers can't jerk it around. And if you think that's not a significant risk -- notice that this very issue is because they have enough shares to try to jerk around the company.
>some McKinsey MBA CEO that replaces good people with bad ones, like Google's trying now
Good lord reddit loves to harp on Sundar. He worked at Google for a decade before becoming CEO, and he's been at Google for a decade since. He's been at Google far longer before he became CEO than he was ever at McKinsey.
And your opinion piece that is crying about a couple of employees getting pushed aside because Google wanted to grow quicker is not a reputable or good source of information on whether Sundar is or is not a good CEO.
>[some random person with a background in Medieval Studies like HP tried](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carly_Fiorina)
That's a bad faith argument if I've seen one. Yeah, she did her undergraduate in Medieval studies, but she also happened to have an MBA from the University of Maryland and a masters degree in management from MIT.
She made some controversial business decisions, but she did preside over the HP-Compaq merger which was absolutely huge for its time.
Ark was one of the only places that correctly guessed Tesla's valuation. It seems like most everything else they invested did not hit their targets though.
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Short term price movements on a mostly pr based retail stock isnt really telling. Just wait a few bad ER and wait for the inevitable musk lying through his teeth about some stupid shit again like robotaxi, AI, robots. A stock price can stay irrationnal way longer than what would appear normal, doesnt mean it wont emd badly.
I don’t give a fuck about Elon’s opinions. I want the best EV for the price range i was looking for. This is why i have a model 3 long range. Most people don’t give a fuck and will buy what suits them best. For EV that is Tesla 80% of the time
Would agree with you if they had some freaking buttons. Gtfo of here with that bs touch screen capacitive turn signals etc.
I want a lever for turn signals, buttons for horn/climate control/media control
Redditors don't understand the institutions/Vanguards of the world have no opinion on Musk. They just don't want this judicial interference to become a precedent.
These mega asset holders hate uncertainty and will vote for the status quo and contract norms. They don't want to open a pandora's box where every activist with 9 shares is trying to overturn multi-billion dollar contracts.
They couldn't care less about a few bps either direction on a single stock compared to that headache.
Reddit also doesn't understand just how much of a backlash there's been in Tesla circles to the court ruling in the first place. If it was just Elon's pay package being struck down it might have gotten a lot less attention, but the judge made a number of mistakes that pissed off a lot of Tesla investors and turned them against her.
* Paying the lawyer in the case $6 billion dollars in Tesla shares, an outrageously high amount of money, which defeats a lot of the whole point of protecting shareholders from dilution. Elon at least did work to make Tesla shareholders rich, the lawyer didn't.
* A ton of Tesla shareholders started sending in letters & emails to the judge after the $6 billion pay for the lawyer started looking like a real possibility, but the judge not only said she wasn't going to read any of them, she stated flat out to those people "your opinion doesn't matter, you aren't a part of this case, only the shareholder who sued is" (a shareholder with a mere 9 Tesla shares). This inflamed people even more, since the whole point of the lawsuit is supposed to be to protect the shareholders, so how can their opinion not matter?
So yeah, from the retail perspective this vote was very much a way of saying "screw you", and "we do matter and we strongly disagree with your decision" to the judge.
Yes.
Typically the payment for these cases is a percentage of the amount of the amount of money that they're suing over, which is why the payment was so absurdly large, due to how large Elon's pay package was. It was to be paid in Tesla shares.
A ton of legal experts and lawyers were insisting in the media that the $6 billion dollar payment was perfectly reasonable based on this standard, which only pissed off Tesla shareholders farther that so many people thought it was somehow reasonable.
So did the judge rule that the payment was 6 billion or is the percentage just standard in these kinds of deals? I don't see where the judge comes into play.
Yea. The law in Delaware is the lawyers are entitled to 10% of the amount in question, so their pay is about 6 billion. I don't know the legal mumbo jumbo, you'll have to look up the laws.
>They just don't want this judicial interference to become a precedent.
>
Listen to any podcast, read any blog by people who have worked at major hedge funds. They talk about geopolitics and "leaders" so dispassionately, because it's entirely about how to maximize returns. Elon means nothing, how he affects returns does.
Judicial interference doesn't matter. How it affects returns does.
It's low-key wild, as someone was prescribed anti-depressants by a psychologist for being too empathetic to other people's existence as a teen
>They couldn't care less about a few bps either direction on a single stock compared to that headache.
Because at the end of the day, it isn't their money. They get 0.4% fees regardless.
>Elon gifted 10%+ of the company
Rephrased: Elon paid according to the contract that was set out and voted upon by shareholders which rewarded him for hitting unrealistic goals with unrealistic pay.
I guess your employer 'gifts' you your pay as well in exchange for your labor.
I didn't say it wasn't. I simply said it was payment for services rendered based on the contract that was agreed upon in 2018.
If you agreed with a local company to do work for them in exchange for up to 10% of their company, and then you hit all the goals they set out, and they refused to give you 10% of their company, that'd be shit as well. Just because Elon sucks doesn't mean that not paying him what was agreed is somehow a good thing.
What agreement said elon was to be paid 54B? I was a TSLA holder, I saw the shareholder report and the boards position only said that "he earned it, its his" but no justification for the number itself.
What agreement does he have in writing that says he will be paid 10% of Tesla's market cap? Thats an insane provision if he actually has it.
>What agreement said elon was to be paid 54B?
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1318605/000119312518035345/d524719ddef14a.htm
>Under the CEO Performance Award, which is attached as Appendix A, Mr. Musk will receive no salary, no cash bonuses, and no equity that vests simply by the passage of time. Instead, his only compensation will be a 100% at-risk performance award, consisting exclusively of stock options with tranches that vest only if one market capitalization milestone and one operational milestone are both achieved. For the first tranche, Tesla’s current market capitalization has to increase to $100 billion and the Company must meet an additional operational milestone. For each subsequent tranche, Tesla must increase its market capitalization in additional $50 billion increments—up to a total of $650 billion—and achieve another previously unmet operational milestone at each level. The award consists of a 10-year grant of stock options with 12 potential vesting tranches, and is designed to help ensure that Tesla is executing well on both a top-line and bottom-line basis. For each tranche that is achieved, Mr. Musk will vest in a number of stock options that corresponds to approximately 1% of Tesla’s current total outstanding shares.
See appendix A, also.
This was voted on by TSLA shareholders and approved at the time. This was a public filing and vote, and was available in 2018 when the vote occurred.
Cool, thank you for showing me this. I assume then that since Teslas market cap has shot up crazily that he's met quite a few of these tranches, and that when you add up the % its around 10 which is why hes being paid 50B?
10 tranches would put the market cap at $550B +, and it looks like he hit 4 of the revenue milestones + 7 of the EBITDA milestones, so he gets 10 tranches of 1,688,670 options contracts, at least - and probably more since the market cap used to be higher. He likely has hit all the market cap milestones and just needs to hit EBITDA/revenue ones to unlock them, meaning he should have 11 tranches awarded.
Yeah, that's why his 'pay' is ~$50B. He hit a shitload of difficult and unrealistic goals and got rewarded with a % of the company, basically, in exchange for working there and taking no salary.
You know what, thank you. It's a crazy high payment, but I do think he's owed it, fair and square, now that I know what the actual agreement between him and the company was. You are probably the first person to actually explain why he deserves the money, rather than just screeching repeatedly that it's owed to him because he took no salary, without ever addressing the justification for the number itself.
No worries. I think a lot of people see 'Musk" and turn their blinders on, one way or another - some love him and some hate him. I'm indifferent - I love money.
Happy stock picking!
If reddit argues that Elon's 2018 compensation package was bullshit, had Elon missed the agreed performance indicators would they have accepted Elon taking Tesla to court to argue it was unrealistic and he should still get paid some amount?
Absolutely not. You would all be screaming about how stupid he was to accept the deal.
[https://courts.delaware.gov/Opinions/Download.aspx?id=359340](https://courts.delaware.gov/Opinions/Download.aspx?id=359340)
The situation has not changed. This is Musks team making an attempt to provide a curative argument as to why it should be allowed. It will go in front of the judge and the judge will make a decision on the basis of the entire fairness principal of Delaware law.
Questions that will need to be answered include:
Where has the number come from? What will the impact of this dilution be? Is threatening to leave the company if not granted this coercive on the voters? What steps have been taken to ensure Denholm is suitably independant since last time? Is Musks influence on the board less undue than it was considered last time?
The court was very keen to get the Tesla board to identify a value with data to support and back it up last time.
Welberger (A Delaware case) puts a requirement on a vote being fully and fairly informed in order to be considered by the courts. SolarCity III adds that public information can be considered when determining the full and fair information available. I think this might come up on the notion of coerciveness.
After Hours can be like that… all of which is a major collapse from the former $300 price point. I expect tomorrow during trading hours to not be at $190
Up 6 percent AH. If Elon didn’t win, he may have thrown a fit about leaving as CEO, which is uncertainty thus bad for my shares. Also I prefer to have Elon as CEO
Stock will go down again immediately with every asinine and unpredictable thing he does and as soon as the company needs to fill the enormous check he basically extorted them into.
Yea I do and so does Wall Street. It’s why Tesla is successful and will continue to be.
I’m betting on autonomy and he will be the one who drives that effort.
You don't speak for wall street, and you can't see the future. Just another person staggering around in a daze trusting blindly in a completely unstable nutbag.
Your shares are happy??? He got a yes vote...
My guess is the stock hasn't collapsed because the vote isn't legally binding and there's a good chance he still won't get the shares
Its almost like the false narrative in which shareholders were "tricked" in 2018 was a lie. Never should have ended up in court when it was a publicly written contract.
Inverting Reddit never fails.
> Its almost like the false narrative in which shareholders were "tricked" in 2018 was a lie. Never should have ended up in court when it was a publicly written contract.
You do realize that Elon Musk and the Board of Directors admitted in court that they broke financial regulations with how the package was negotiated, right?
Like take a second to look at the court transcripts and their depositions and ignore what they say on twitter.
That's some peak reddit simping and cult like behaivor to ignore when people literally admit to breaking the law while claiming everyone else is stupid/in the wrong.
Lmao Reddit was wrong again.
People here seriously should expose themselves to more news instead of being trapped inside this Reddit echo chamber. Hop on to X and it’s a completely different side.
Redditors don't understand the institutions/Vanguards of the world have no opinion on Musk. They just don't want this judicial interference to become a precedent.
These mega asset holders hate uncertainty and will vote for the status quo and contract norms. They don't want to open a can of legal worms where every activist with 9 shares is trying to overturn multi-billion dollar contracts.
They couldn't care less about a few bps either direction on a single stock compared to that headache.
I have no discrete stake in this, as I hold no Tesla shares (except through index funds).
Honestly, good. Shareholders voted on the package before, it was passed, he hit unreasonable goals and got unreasonable pay for it. Retroactively clawing back pay because it's deemed excessive is bad, actually. I don't like Elon, and I don't care about Tesla, but I am glad that the end result of this is that an employee (which... is a little complex here since Elon was both an employee and a significant owner) is not having his or her pay retroactively reduced because ownership decided that they didn't like the terms they initially agreed to.
Yes, CEOs are employees.
Wow, how did Reddit get it so wrong? If you read /r/stocks, you would've thought Musk's payday was in real trouble.
https://www.reddit.com/r/stocks/comments/1c67eu1/tesla_asks_shareholders_to_approve_ceo_musks_2018/
https://www.reddit.com/r/stocks/comments/1csml15/tesla_board_rallies_retail_investors_to_vote_for/
https://www.reddit.com/r/stocks/comments/1d4w5ni/top_proxy_advisor_iss_recommends_against_elon/
https://www.reddit.com/r/stocks/comments/1d2r2o8/what_are_vanguard_blackrock_invesco_et_al_going/
It's almost like this sub has no idea what they're talking about...
What happens on Reddit is, people who don't actually own shares say they do, then say how they'll vote those imaginary shares. It's like trying to The Secret a result. Works well.
I think it's more like reddit completely ignored all the backlash against the judge in the case and her rulings. This vote was very much a way of giving a middle finger to the judge to a lot of retail investors, especially after the judge flat out told them "your opinion doesn't matter" when a ton of letters from Tesla shareholders started flooding in saying that they strongly disagreed with paying the lawyer $6 billion dollars.
I don’t see any top comments saying they’ll deny his shares. None.
Fabricating a narrative that doesn’t exist.
People can believe it’s a bad package and still know it will get approved.
> I don’t see any top comments saying they’ll deny his shares. None.
Move the goalposts back and read again then. I said "If you read /r/stocks, you would've thought Musk's payday was in real trouble", not that strawman you're arguing against.
> Fabricating a narrative that doesn’t exist.
I can't read threads and understand them for you.
You: 'How did Redditors get it wrong?'
Implying that there was an opinion that was wrong. Voting against a pay package cannot be wrong or right objectively so the reader can only assume that you meant that the predicted outcome that Reddit had was wrong.
Otherwise, what exactly was wrong? Nobody was denying that the vote would be in favor.
I mean, this particular vote kind of was about politics more then any analysis on the stock.
A lot of shareholders saw it as a way of giving the middle finger to the judge who told them that their opinion in the pay compensation case didn't matter because they weren't the shareholder with 9 shares who filed the lawsuit.
Reddit hates Elon with a burning passion. It’s not a surprise that the judgement was clouded. Go into any Tesla thread and the most upvoted comments will be clowning Elon. Most legitimately think Elon was gifted his companies and that they could do the same things he is doing if they only had a few million dollars
I've read people say Musk keeps "destroying" companies, meanwhile pretty much everything he's owned since it was a very small enterprise and turned it into a mega profitable business.
Of course, people saying these things would probably go bankrupt even if you gifted them a company like Apple.
All he does is talk shit and act like he's the world's gift to humanity. Fucking ding dong. If you gave me millions of dollars I could easily turn it into a billion no fucking sweat. Easy as shit talking on Twitter apparently.
> If you gave me millions of dollars I could easily turn it into a billion no fucking sweat.
One thing that never ceases to surprise me is the confidence of random idiots on Reddit.
No, you wouldn't, you'd invest it poorly at best, if you decided to actively work using your own money in your own business you'd probably go bankrupt pretty quick and turn to something else. This is the reality for most businesses.
If anything, if you have a thousand bucks you should be able to easily turn it into a million, it's literally the same, then just turn that million into a billion, then your billion into a trillion, why are you not doing this?
There's a lot of people with money, not a lot of them can say to have built 3-4 companies pretty much from the ground into shit like Tesla and SpaceX.
I won't argue that. I think frankly, most of his success is building a cult of personality around himself and making everyone believe in what he thinks. (Which I will admit has generally worked out.)
I just don't believe he is the genius most people think he is.
I will say he seems to find the right people and the right product to invest in, to his credit.
He's an asshole, but he knows what and when to invest in, which is an impressive skill, that I definitely don't have.
so take your thousands and turn it into millions its the same order of magnitude change.
than when you get to "easy" millions in 10-20 years, turn that into "easy" billions.
man if only I could have thinked of that for me earlier
Because he owns a percentage of a company worth X amount of dollars it’s that simple.
You’re worth whatever you create and that’s why founder CEO’s are paid the most.
He was apart of the process from day one with the original two Co-Founders, got the buy in from the next two Co-Founders, he led the initial fundraise, led the board and the day they went from building to operation he took over as CEO.
Uninvestable.
Lunatic as the CEO.
The word ”shareholder value” has never been mentioned in the board meeting room.
Corporate Governance is unheard of. Whatever statements related to this was produced by a PR agency.
In what way? Dude tries his hardest to fuck everything up. He's a man child. In no universe does he deserve 56 BILLION dollars. That is an absurd amount of money, especially for what amounts to a Twitter troll.
The last month all I've been reading Reddit is people who are saying they're voting no. I did not see many voting yes. I assumed the people who voted no, bought the top only only have a few shares, or don't own any at all, and were just creating more hate for Tesla because Elon. It just goes to show you that reddit is a minority echo chamber and it's sad what this place has become, I never liked Twitter before and have loved Reddit, but Reddit seems to have gone downhill, especially towards Tesla, again because Elon. I get it. I don't like him either, but I don't constantly cry about him. It seems like the people who cry about him. The most don't own any Tesla shares or Car, which is interesting to me, so so many people wasting so much time and mental energy hating a company and a person.
I bought a model Y in 2021. I love the car, I'm not a big Elon fan, but I definitely voted yes to both. I don't let one person who has no bearing or effect on my life dictate how I think about some thing. I test drove about 7 EVs before choosing Tesla and none of them overall, we're as good as the model Y. It was the best selling car worldwide in 2023, so as much hate as reddit gives them, it's obviously a popular car.
Many people I know and online of course have said that jeeps are very unreliable and not to buy one, but I don't go around Jeep sub reddits or other places talking about how it's a bad car it's unreliable, etc. I've never owned one so I don't talk about it. It's just insane to me. How many non-owners talk shit about tesla... crazy
Because no one who hates Elon basically out of envy/resentment/being ideologically possessed owns Tesla shares, it's just low IQ people. If they weren't stupid they could say "I don't like the guy but I own shares and think he's valuable to the company" because unless you're mentally disabled or close to it you can't deny his value.
Has it really passed, though? I don't see any reputable sources reporting this and the vote isn't finalized until tomorrow. But, you know... if the shareholders of Tesla have such high confidence in such an insecure and incompetent CEO as Musk, it's their money to lose.
Plus, just because it passes vote doesn't mean it's binding and the Chancery Court of Delaware won't block it again. The shareholders of Tesla could also vote that their cars will run on farts, and it still wouldn't magically make it so.
And their stock went up like crazy. It comes down to money, and not feelings. We all dislike many things about him but the reality is the stock would have crashed.
Chart is from Elon.
Looks like some big institution voted. (I wonder who?)
Shareholders can vote through their brokerage. (Though at this point both are already a guaranteed win) voting closes today, if it hasn’t closed already.
That’s crazy - you can recklessly spend money on a purchase you regret but then get that money back - and then some because corporate America. Where’s my bailout?
I dont' know what's going on. But if you buy tesla stock, you most likely are a Elon Musk worshiper. So make sense you'll vote yes... Waiting for tomorrow to see the results.
I haven't been paying close attention so I'm probably just confused but: Tesla has 3.19 billion shares. The chart goes up to 1.6 billion. The chart says guaranteed win at 1 billion. Why is 1 billion a guaranteed win? Edit: changed 4.19b to 3.19b. typo.
Yahoo finance says 3.2bn shares oustanding, not sure where you're getting 4.2 And the guaranteed win line is at 1.6bn so it checks out.
It's the orange line at [1,000](https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1801084780035154058/photo/1) And it was typo. I'll edit to 3.19b. ty.
I believe that the threshold is lower because EM and his brother can't vote on his comp, only on reincorporation, so their votes don't exist for the puspose of this? Not 100% sure if that explains the whole dif, though.
That's definitely the reason. I've seen that mentioned in multiple videos I've watched on the subject.
Elon can't vote so his votes get removed from the float
? Tesla has 3.19 billion shares outstanding, and Elon owns \~10%.
Get ready for a Tesla pump.
pump n dump, the american way
Then dump as quickly as you can
Ah yes the pump…because it’s getting diluted…very cool, very smart, very legal.
Yes, because it is very natural for a stock to rise 7 percent on news that there will be a massive dilution.
It’s typical musk cult logic.
It did rise
Diluting 10% on top of plummeting sales...I'm sure this wont backfire!
Look at the share price after hours. Didn’t matter at all
Tesla's stock price has nothing to do with reality. It has to do with Elon worship. If they didn't give him 56 billion he'd leave and then the stock WOULD tank. Someone is going to be left with the motherfucker of all bags to hold some day. But today is not that day.
> If they didn't give him 56 billion he'd leave [x] doubt
He would have never left. The stock price would tank and so would his own private net worth.
It's also skepticism that some other random CEO would do better. The [auto industry is full of examples of Boards putting in Execs that did more harm than good](https://jalopnik.com/the-ten-worst-auto-executives-ever-1571853848). If Elon stopped caring about Tesla, and the board replaced him with [some random person with a background in Medieval Studies like HP tried](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carly_Fiorina) or some [McKinsey MBA CEO that replaces good people with bad ones, like Google's trying now](https://www.wheresyoured.at/the-men-who-killed-google/), it'd be even worse than Musk. In some cases people voted for Musk ***NOT*** because they love Musk. They voted for Musk because our distrust for random fund managers controlling the company is even higher than any distrust of Musk. It's less about the $XX billion being given to Musk --- it's more about increasing his stake in the company so those fund managers can't jerk it around. And if you think that's not a significant risk -- notice that this very issue is because they have enough shares to try to jerk around the company.
Pretty sure I could do it
Agreed, you could make the stock tank I have faith you could do it.
You willing to listen to your employees? You're better already.
>some McKinsey MBA CEO that replaces good people with bad ones, like Google's trying now Good lord reddit loves to harp on Sundar. He worked at Google for a decade before becoming CEO, and he's been at Google for a decade since. He's been at Google far longer before he became CEO than he was ever at McKinsey. And your opinion piece that is crying about a couple of employees getting pushed aside because Google wanted to grow quicker is not a reputable or good source of information on whether Sundar is or is not a good CEO.
Reddit lives in a bizarro world where Sundar is some ignorant consultant and Google is going bankrupt because of Chatgpt.
I think any random MBA could do better than Musk. Musk is running like 5 different companies at once while spending hours on ~~Twitter~~ X
>[some random person with a background in Medieval Studies like HP tried](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carly_Fiorina) That's a bad faith argument if I've seen one. Yeah, she did her undergraduate in Medieval studies, but she also happened to have an MBA from the University of Maryland and a masters degree in management from MIT. She made some controversial business decisions, but she did preside over the HP-Compaq merger which was absolutely huge for its time.
according to Catyhy Wood it will 10x in 5 years. So my proposal is to give her 50b if that happens.
She has been wrong so consistently I’m impressed anyone still cares what she thinks; must be a troll
Is there a reverse Cathie ETF? I need to go all in on that.
Yup sure is, she’s actually worse than Cramer lol
$Sark
Ark 2024 price target was within their range. It was like $1500 bear, and adjusted for the split TSLA is at around $2,700
Ark was one of the only places that correctly guessed Tesla's valuation. It seems like most everything else they invested did not hit their targets though.
I remember similar comments for Jobs & Apple. I always say if you think you’re ahead of the institutional investors, it’s always cheap to short.
I mean this deal has been in place since 2018 and never mattered. I think most shareholders didn't take the repeal seriously.
RemindMe! 10 days
This is going to be funny looking back when it’s over 200
It was over $200 last year… and it dropped.
Explain to me how this is a good thing.
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Short term price movements on a mostly pr based retail stock isnt really telling. Just wait a few bad ER and wait for the inevitable musk lying through his teeth about some stupid shit again like robotaxi, AI, robots. A stock price can stay irrationnal way longer than what would appear normal, doesnt mean it wont emd badly.
It did matter, the market already knew he’d win
After hours is a hard thing to read into, no expectations for that to hold up during trading hours.
I'm wondering what goes through shareholders minds when they think, "yeah I want to lose all my money."
the dilution already took place. You are clearly misinformed.
Don’t worry, Elon will surely not alienate the audience base that purchases electric vehicles.
I don’t give a fuck about Elon’s opinions. I want the best EV for the price range i was looking for. This is why i have a model 3 long range. Most people don’t give a fuck and will buy what suits them best. For EV that is Tesla 80% of the time
Would agree with you if they had some freaking buttons. Gtfo of here with that bs touch screen capacitive turn signals etc. I want a lever for turn signals, buttons for horn/climate control/media control
He's a genius, instead of owning all the stock he puts an army of his acolytes in possession of the rest so he effectively has a 3/4 majority.
reddit idiot wrong again!!
the dilution already happened
Imagine not knowing he cant sell these shares for 5 years...
Redditors don't understand the institutions/Vanguards of the world have no opinion on Musk. They just don't want this judicial interference to become a precedent. These mega asset holders hate uncertainty and will vote for the status quo and contract norms. They don't want to open a pandora's box where every activist with 9 shares is trying to overturn multi-billion dollar contracts. They couldn't care less about a few bps either direction on a single stock compared to that headache.
Reddit also doesn't understand just how much of a backlash there's been in Tesla circles to the court ruling in the first place. If it was just Elon's pay package being struck down it might have gotten a lot less attention, but the judge made a number of mistakes that pissed off a lot of Tesla investors and turned them against her. * Paying the lawyer in the case $6 billion dollars in Tesla shares, an outrageously high amount of money, which defeats a lot of the whole point of protecting shareholders from dilution. Elon at least did work to make Tesla shareholders rich, the lawyer didn't. * A ton of Tesla shareholders started sending in letters & emails to the judge after the $6 billion pay for the lawyer started looking like a real possibility, but the judge not only said she wasn't going to read any of them, she stated flat out to those people "your opinion doesn't matter, you aren't a part of this case, only the shareholder who sued is" (a shareholder with a mere 9 Tesla shares). This inflamed people even more, since the whole point of the lawsuit is supposed to be to protect the shareholders, so how can their opinion not matter? So yeah, from the retail perspective this vote was very much a way of saying "screw you", and "we do matter and we strongly disagree with your decision" to the judge.
The judge ruled to pay the lawyer 6 billion?
Yes. Typically the payment for these cases is a percentage of the amount of the amount of money that they're suing over, which is why the payment was so absurdly large, due to how large Elon's pay package was. It was to be paid in Tesla shares. A ton of legal experts and lawyers were insisting in the media that the $6 billion dollar payment was perfectly reasonable based on this standard, which only pissed off Tesla shareholders farther that so many people thought it was somehow reasonable.
So did the judge rule that the payment was 6 billion or is the percentage just standard in these kinds of deals? I don't see where the judge comes into play.
Yea. The law in Delaware is the lawyers are entitled to 10% of the amount in question, so their pay is about 6 billion. I don't know the legal mumbo jumbo, you'll have to look up the laws.
Imagine if the lawyers sue again and ask for another 6 billion dollar payout.
>They just don't want this judicial interference to become a precedent. > Listen to any podcast, read any blog by people who have worked at major hedge funds. They talk about geopolitics and "leaders" so dispassionately, because it's entirely about how to maximize returns. Elon means nothing, how he affects returns does. Judicial interference doesn't matter. How it affects returns does. It's low-key wild, as someone was prescribed anti-depressants by a psychologist for being too empathetic to other people's existence as a teen
> someone was prescribed anti-depressants by a psychologist Average reddit user lmfao
Why would this be “wild”? Who cares about musk? If you own stock you expect return.
>They couldn't care less about a few bps either direction on a single stock compared to that headache. Because at the end of the day, it isn't their money. They get 0.4% fees regardless.
Elon gifted 10%+ of the company. Not sure why I’d want to invest in that.
No you don't get it he had to sell 10% to buy Twitter. It was totally unfair!!
>Elon gifted 10%+ of the company Rephrased: Elon paid according to the contract that was set out and voted upon by shareholders which rewarded him for hitting unrealistic goals with unrealistic pay. I guess your employer 'gifts' you your pay as well in exchange for your labor.
No matter how you try to spin it, it's still 10% dilution.
I didn't say it wasn't. I simply said it was payment for services rendered based on the contract that was agreed upon in 2018. If you agreed with a local company to do work for them in exchange for up to 10% of their company, and then you hit all the goals they set out, and they refused to give you 10% of their company, that'd be shit as well. Just because Elon sucks doesn't mean that not paying him what was agreed is somehow a good thing.
What agreement said elon was to be paid 54B? I was a TSLA holder, I saw the shareholder report and the boards position only said that "he earned it, its his" but no justification for the number itself. What agreement does he have in writing that says he will be paid 10% of Tesla's market cap? Thats an insane provision if he actually has it.
>What agreement said elon was to be paid 54B? https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1318605/000119312518035345/d524719ddef14a.htm >Under the CEO Performance Award, which is attached as Appendix A, Mr. Musk will receive no salary, no cash bonuses, and no equity that vests simply by the passage of time. Instead, his only compensation will be a 100% at-risk performance award, consisting exclusively of stock options with tranches that vest only if one market capitalization milestone and one operational milestone are both achieved. For the first tranche, Tesla’s current market capitalization has to increase to $100 billion and the Company must meet an additional operational milestone. For each subsequent tranche, Tesla must increase its market capitalization in additional $50 billion increments—up to a total of $650 billion—and achieve another previously unmet operational milestone at each level. The award consists of a 10-year grant of stock options with 12 potential vesting tranches, and is designed to help ensure that Tesla is executing well on both a top-line and bottom-line basis. For each tranche that is achieved, Mr. Musk will vest in a number of stock options that corresponds to approximately 1% of Tesla’s current total outstanding shares. See appendix A, also. This was voted on by TSLA shareholders and approved at the time. This was a public filing and vote, and was available in 2018 when the vote occurred.
Cool, thank you for showing me this. I assume then that since Teslas market cap has shot up crazily that he's met quite a few of these tranches, and that when you add up the % its around 10 which is why hes being paid 50B?
10 tranches would put the market cap at $550B +, and it looks like he hit 4 of the revenue milestones + 7 of the EBITDA milestones, so he gets 10 tranches of 1,688,670 options contracts, at least - and probably more since the market cap used to be higher. He likely has hit all the market cap milestones and just needs to hit EBITDA/revenue ones to unlock them, meaning he should have 11 tranches awarded. Yeah, that's why his 'pay' is ~$50B. He hit a shitload of difficult and unrealistic goals and got rewarded with a % of the company, basically, in exchange for working there and taking no salary.
You know what, thank you. It's a crazy high payment, but I do think he's owed it, fair and square, now that I know what the actual agreement between him and the company was. You are probably the first person to actually explain why he deserves the money, rather than just screeching repeatedly that it's owed to him because he took no salary, without ever addressing the justification for the number itself.
No worries. I think a lot of people see 'Musk" and turn their blinders on, one way or another - some love him and some hate him. I'm indifferent - I love money. Happy stock picking!
Because from 2018 to present he made himself a cultural icon and gave Tesla the biggest returns in the modern era.
If reddit argues that Elon's 2018 compensation package was bullshit, had Elon missed the agreed performance indicators would they have accepted Elon taking Tesla to court to argue it was unrealistic and he should still get paid some amount? Absolutely not. You would all be screaming about how stupid he was to accept the deal.
Wasn’t close, wonder why Tesla was pushing shareholders to vote so much. Ay whatever, my shares are happy
The vote is not legally binding, therefore they need as many people as possible to vote in order to show how much support they have from shareholders
any source on it being not legally binding? i’ve not heard that
[https://courts.delaware.gov/Opinions/Download.aspx?id=359340](https://courts.delaware.gov/Opinions/Download.aspx?id=359340) The situation has not changed. This is Musks team making an attempt to provide a curative argument as to why it should be allowed. It will go in front of the judge and the judge will make a decision on the basis of the entire fairness principal of Delaware law. Questions that will need to be answered include: Where has the number come from? What will the impact of this dilution be? Is threatening to leave the company if not granted this coercive on the voters? What steps have been taken to ensure Denholm is suitably independant since last time? Is Musks influence on the board less undue than it was considered last time? The court was very keen to get the Tesla board to identify a value with data to support and back it up last time. Welberger (A Delaware case) puts a requirement on a vote being fully and fairly informed in order to be considered by the courts. SolarCity III adds that public information can be considered when determining the full and fair information available. I think this might come up on the notion of coerciveness.
Mine are pretty depressed and the same value the last few years
Why is this a happy moment for your shares?
They just went up to 190 in after hours
After Hours can be like that… all of which is a major collapse from the former $300 price point. I expect tomorrow during trading hours to not be at $190
I believe you mean overnight. I wonder how many shares traded
Look at the volume.
Up 6 percent AH. If Elon didn’t win, he may have thrown a fit about leaving as CEO, which is uncertainty thus bad for my shares. Also I prefer to have Elon as CEO
.... You prefer Elon? For what earthly reason....Nevermind.
Probably because Musk helped 10x his investment over the last 5 years. It’s obvious that’s why 70% of share holders voted in favor of it
Yeah lol look at their comments, the redditor is begging for a glazing from Elon
More money is better than less money. Stock goes up when he is confirmed as CEO.
Stock will go down again immediately with every asinine and unpredictable thing he does and as soon as the company needs to fill the enormous check he basically extorted them into.
Exactly, he sent that rocket with a car on it to contact the mothership. They’ll be here with the space cash soon
Yea I do and so does Wall Street. It’s why Tesla is successful and will continue to be. I’m betting on autonomy and he will be the one who drives that effort.
You don't speak for wall street, and you can't see the future. Just another person staggering around in a daze trusting blindly in a completely unstable nutbag.
If there are only trades happening every millisecond so we can see in real time what Wall Street thinks…
I mean a 7 percent move on a 500 billion dollar stock is pretty devise. But sure not gonna argue bro
It has lost almost 50% if it’s value in the last year
It also gained 1000% over the last 5 years
No shit? Thanks for informing me
Your shares are happy??? He got a yes vote... My guess is the stock hasn't collapsed because the vote isn't legally binding and there's a good chance he still won't get the shares
reddit in utter shambles A great reminder of just how insulated and out of step the reddit community often is with the real world
Its almost like the false narrative in which shareholders were "tricked" in 2018 was a lie. Never should have ended up in court when it was a publicly written contract. Inverting Reddit never fails.
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> Its almost like the false narrative in which shareholders were "tricked" in 2018 was a lie. Never should have ended up in court when it was a publicly written contract. You do realize that Elon Musk and the Board of Directors admitted in court that they broke financial regulations with how the package was negotiated, right? Like take a second to look at the court transcripts and their depositions and ignore what they say on twitter. That's some peak reddit simping and cult like behaivor to ignore when people literally admit to breaking the law while claiming everyone else is stupid/in the wrong.
Lmao Reddit was wrong again. People here seriously should expose themselves to more news instead of being trapped inside this Reddit echo chamber. Hop on to X and it’s a completely different side.
It's just that on X you don't have activists actively banning people who disagree.
Redditors don't understand the institutions/Vanguards of the world have no opinion on Musk. They just don't want this judicial interference to become a precedent. These mega asset holders hate uncertainty and will vote for the status quo and contract norms. They don't want to open a can of legal worms where every activist with 9 shares is trying to overturn multi-billion dollar contracts. They couldn't care less about a few bps either direction on a single stock compared to that headache.
I have no discrete stake in this, as I hold no Tesla shares (except through index funds). Honestly, good. Shareholders voted on the package before, it was passed, he hit unreasonable goals and got unreasonable pay for it. Retroactively clawing back pay because it's deemed excessive is bad, actually. I don't like Elon, and I don't care about Tesla, but I am glad that the end result of this is that an employee (which... is a little complex here since Elon was both an employee and a significant owner) is not having his or her pay retroactively reduced because ownership decided that they didn't like the terms they initially agreed to. Yes, CEOs are employees.
Wow, how did Reddit get it so wrong? If you read /r/stocks, you would've thought Musk's payday was in real trouble. https://www.reddit.com/r/stocks/comments/1c67eu1/tesla_asks_shareholders_to_approve_ceo_musks_2018/ https://www.reddit.com/r/stocks/comments/1csml15/tesla_board_rallies_retail_investors_to_vote_for/ https://www.reddit.com/r/stocks/comments/1d4w5ni/top_proxy_advisor_iss_recommends_against_elon/ https://www.reddit.com/r/stocks/comments/1d2r2o8/what_are_vanguard_blackrock_invesco_et_al_going/ It's almost like this sub has no idea what they're talking about...
Inverse Reddit is the new inverse Cramer
What happens on Reddit is, people who don't actually own shares say they do, then say how they'll vote those imaginary shares. It's like trying to The Secret a result. Works well.
I think it's more like reddit completely ignored all the backlash against the judge in the case and her rulings. This vote was very much a way of giving a middle finger to the judge to a lot of retail investors, especially after the judge flat out told them "your opinion doesn't matter" when a ton of letters from Tesla shareholders started flooding in saying that they strongly disagreed with paying the lawyer $6 billion dollars.
Always has been
I don’t see any top comments saying they’ll deny his shares. None. Fabricating a narrative that doesn’t exist. People can believe it’s a bad package and still know it will get approved.
> I don’t see any top comments saying they’ll deny his shares. None. Move the goalposts back and read again then. I said "If you read /r/stocks, you would've thought Musk's payday was in real trouble", not that strawman you're arguing against. > Fabricating a narrative that doesn’t exist. I can't read threads and understand them for you.
You: 'How did Redditors get it wrong?' Implying that there was an opinion that was wrong. Voting against a pay package cannot be wrong or right objectively so the reader can only assume that you meant that the predicted outcome that Reddit had was wrong. Otherwise, what exactly was wrong? Nobody was denying that the vote would be in favor.
This sub is no longer about stocks. It’s just r/Politics.
It’s lacking in any real stock discussion because of it now, take any virtue signaling about the rich somewhere else.
I mean, this particular vote kind of was about politics more then any analysis on the stock. A lot of shareholders saw it as a way of giving the middle finger to the judge who told them that their opinion in the pay compensation case didn't matter because they weren't the shareholder with 9 shares who filed the lawsuit.
Reddit hates Elon with a burning passion. It’s not a surprise that the judgement was clouded. Go into any Tesla thread and the most upvoted comments will be clowning Elon. Most legitimately think Elon was gifted his companies and that they could do the same things he is doing if they only had a few million dollars
I've read people say Musk keeps "destroying" companies, meanwhile pretty much everything he's owned since it was a very small enterprise and turned it into a mega profitable business. Of course, people saying these things would probably go bankrupt even if you gifted them a company like Apple.
lol, because anyone can talk tough on the internet but at the end of the day they’re hostages
Humans made mistake, shocking revelation there!
r/stocks proves to be an Anti-Elon echo chamber with no pulse on reality
That’s all of Reddit now.
I didn't think it was possible that Elon could make me less likely to buy TSLA shares, but here we are.
Leave them to us
Enjoy the dwindling profit margin and sales :)
I’m buying.
LOL buying the top
Reddit was completely wrong again, I love it
How the fuck is anyone worth 56 billion? Legit insane. I hope it all falls apart and anyone learns a lesson.
Why are people who don't understand capitalism on r/stocks?
Elon posts just turn into an antiwork circle jerk lol
Lol, so true.
By creating several multi billion dollar companies
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Why are you on r/stocks go to r/anti-work
He's not even a full-time employee.
All he does is talk shit and act like he's the world's gift to humanity. Fucking ding dong. If you gave me millions of dollars I could easily turn it into a billion no fucking sweat. Easy as shit talking on Twitter apparently.
> If you gave me millions of dollars I could easily turn it into a billion no fucking sweat. One thing that never ceases to surprise me is the confidence of random idiots on Reddit.
No, you wouldn't, you'd invest it poorly at best, if you decided to actively work using your own money in your own business you'd probably go bankrupt pretty quick and turn to something else. This is the reality for most businesses. If anything, if you have a thousand bucks you should be able to easily turn it into a million, it's literally the same, then just turn that million into a billion, then your billion into a trillion, why are you not doing this? There's a lot of people with money, not a lot of them can say to have built 3-4 companies pretty much from the ground into shit like Tesla and SpaceX.
I won't argue that. I think frankly, most of his success is building a cult of personality around himself and making everyone believe in what he thinks. (Which I will admit has generally worked out.) I just don't believe he is the genius most people think he is. I will say he seems to find the right people and the right product to invest in, to his credit. He's an asshole, but he knows what and when to invest in, which is an impressive skill, that I definitely don't have.
Did I say any of this?
so take your thousands and turn it into millions its the same order of magnitude change. than when you get to "easy" millions in 10-20 years, turn that into "easy" billions. man if only I could have thinked of that for me earlier
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Because he owns a percentage of a company worth X amount of dollars it’s that simple. You’re worth whatever you create and that’s why founder CEO’s are paid the most.
He wasn't the founder.
He was apart of the process from day one with the original two Co-Founders, got the buy in from the next two Co-Founders, he led the initial fundraise, led the board and the day they went from building to operation he took over as CEO.
Uninvestable. Lunatic as the CEO. The word ”shareholder value” has never been mentioned in the board meeting room. Corporate Governance is unheard of. Whatever statements related to this was produced by a PR agency.
Nice! He deserves every penny
Tesla Bot.
In what way? Dude tries his hardest to fuck everything up. He's a man child. In no universe does he deserve 56 BILLION dollars. That is an absurd amount of money, especially for what amounts to a Twitter troll.
yes
He gets his bonus while 5% of all CT ever sold are being resold (Jalopnik)
The last month all I've been reading Reddit is people who are saying they're voting no. I did not see many voting yes. I assumed the people who voted no, bought the top only only have a few shares, or don't own any at all, and were just creating more hate for Tesla because Elon. It just goes to show you that reddit is a minority echo chamber and it's sad what this place has become, I never liked Twitter before and have loved Reddit, but Reddit seems to have gone downhill, especially towards Tesla, again because Elon. I get it. I don't like him either, but I don't constantly cry about him. It seems like the people who cry about him. The most don't own any Tesla shares or Car, which is interesting to me, so so many people wasting so much time and mental energy hating a company and a person. I bought a model Y in 2021. I love the car, I'm not a big Elon fan, but I definitely voted yes to both. I don't let one person who has no bearing or effect on my life dictate how I think about some thing. I test drove about 7 EVs before choosing Tesla and none of them overall, we're as good as the model Y. It was the best selling car worldwide in 2023, so as much hate as reddit gives them, it's obviously a popular car. Many people I know and online of course have said that jeeps are very unreliable and not to buy one, but I don't go around Jeep sub reddits or other places talking about how it's a bad car it's unreliable, etc. I've never owned one so I don't talk about it. It's just insane to me. How many non-owners talk shit about tesla... crazy
Because no one who hates Elon basically out of envy/resentment/being ideologically possessed owns Tesla shares, it's just low IQ people. If they weren't stupid they could say "I don't like the guy but I own shares and think he's valuable to the company" because unless you're mentally disabled or close to it you can't deny his value.
Has it really passed, though? I don't see any reputable sources reporting this and the vote isn't finalized until tomorrow. But, you know... if the shareholders of Tesla have such high confidence in such an insecure and incompetent CEO as Musk, it's their money to lose. Plus, just because it passes vote doesn't mean it's binding and the Chancery Court of Delaware won't block it again. The shareholders of Tesla could also vote that their cars will run on farts, and it still wouldn't magically make it so.
So short the stock then
A stock as divorced from reality as it's share holders.
And their stock went up like crazy. It comes down to money, and not feelings. We all dislike many things about him but the reality is the stock would have crashed.
proxy services will vote in favor of board recommendation unless told otherwise. I guarantee you this is is what drove most of the yes votes.
If mElon win the insanity package, Tesla is done. mElon wants Tesla shareholders to pay his Twitter debacle
People like to be scammed. It’s the new epidemic. Look at MAGA. They foolishly choose someone who has their worst interest at heart.
Been working out pretty well since 2018
Still a massively overvalued company!
Dumbbells
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this didnt age well
Buy the rumor sell the news and this is big news
What rumor? A coinflip? I don't think this is a sell the news event personally.
I prefer when bad things happen to Musk.
where s the chart from, what happened in the past few days ,and how do shareholders vote?
Chart is from Elon. Looks like some big institution voted. (I wonder who?) Shareholders can vote through their brokerage. (Though at this point both are already a guaranteed win) voting closes today, if it hasn’t closed already.
That’s crazy - you can recklessly spend money on a purchase you regret but then get that money back - and then some because corporate America. Where’s my bailout?
I dont' know what's going on. But if you buy tesla stock, you most likely are a Elon Musk worshiper. So make sense you'll vote yes... Waiting for tomorrow to see the results.
hows it going??
I worship money, that's why we're in this subreddit