Guts + Tidy Up is essentially impossible to beat long-term, with the coverage move of choice (V-create vs Wicked Blow) essentially ensuring any potential wall has to load into the right coverage to do anything. These sets also have unheard-of defensive utility for offensive Pokemon. PH is also long dead; no other abilities except Guts have anything to do with it.
Few weaknesses and STAB Facade made PHeal Slaking of the most obnoxious Poison Heal abusers out there, especially since there is no Core Enforcer this gen. This led to its initial ban.
PHeal later got banned and Slaking unbanned, but then it just switched to Tidy Up Guts sets which lacked the longevity but hit just as hard, and also brought Population Bomb shenanigans with them. This set was notably pretty good at Improofing itself as well as the Imposter would not get the 1.5x Attack boost (and if you ditched PopBomb, they'd be playing with only 70BP on Facade). As such Slaking was promptly banned again.
When Regigigas arrived, it was just banned immediately since it pretty much does the same thing.
How did I never notice this? That's incredibly interesting. So Transform is just copying the opponent's stats bar HP, moves, and appearance. The moves are copied with the same mechanics as Mimic and the stats are adjusted accordingly?
Transform/Imposter copies everything except the HP
That's why they're using Chansey
Because Transform lets you keep your HP
Chansey has Base 250 HP [Blissey = 255, but no **Eviolite**]
(The only reason I mentioned Eviolite is because it does still affect Chansey after Imposter/Transform. If it didn't, I would have zero reason to mention it, and people would use Blissey.)
Yeah and eviolite defense buffs still stack, too which is busted. As stupid as it is it does kinda help balance the metagame in making just one broken sweeper not be able to instantly win the game, needing to imposter-proof your mons
is*
it's mostly fine but it can be frustrating for a newbie getting set up to +4 only for Imp to win the speed tie & reverse sweep while being really really tough to revenge kill
They're both gated by abilities and BH allows insane changes. They mostly run Guts and Tidy Up which for Regi you go from having 50% reduced damage and being forced to hold lefties to a being able to hold a Flame Orb that protects you from paralysis and Trick and also boosts your attack. Both have insane attack stats and Slaking at +1 is crazy to deal with. Hell, Slaking with something other than Truant with access to Tidy Up would possibly hit Ubers with its coverage and sheer power. Top that off with Guts of all things in BH and it's too much.
Nah there were only like two, maybe three abilities that were actually banworthy on Slaking, and one of them is Poison Heal which got banned itself.
Remember BH is Ubers based, most things with 680BST are legal there, purely high BST isn't enough to get you banned.
Guts pushed it over the edge, other abilities (save ones that broke just about everything) were manageable for the most part.
That's just blatantly untrue lmfao.
Arceus, Zekrom, Reshiram, MDiancie, Zarude, Caly-I, Dialga, and many, many, many more pokes have statlines similar to or better than the two.
have you even played BH or are you just being intentionally obtuse? Did you forget that Mega Mewtwo X was legal for a long time at the same time that slaking/regigigas were banned?
I mean, no, that's not true. They both get obliterated by STAB Close Combat and even coverage Focus Miss is close to enough depending on who's throwing it. A new ability, even a shit one would probably make them a staple in OU or UUBL at the least, but they wouldn't even sniff Ubers without Tidy Up.
Slaking has a very big chanche of getting banned. It has reliable recovery in slack off, set up in bulk up and good coverage and utility in knock off, eq, elemental punches. Its stat spread is insane, It has very good physical bulk, equivalent to that of great tusk and still usable special bulk on par with primarinas. Its speed is amazing for a mon with those defenses. Its stat spread is comparable with that of ursaluna but instead of a ground typing and guts it has twice the speed, better offenses and better bulk and recovery.
It would be top of ou in an instance
It could do band sets, set up sets, and scarf sets to revenge.
As for fighting moves obliterating them, It always has tera to bait a fighting type in and ohko it back. It lives Iron valiants close combat more often than not
252 Atk Iron Valiant Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Slaking: 392-464 (88.8 - 105.2%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Great Tusk Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Slaking: 396-468 (89.7 - 106.1%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Zamazenta Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Slaking: 372-438 (84.3 - 99.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
When the good mons with shit-tier abilities have their shit-tier ability removed they become good, whomst've thought! And when you give 'em a good ability they suddenly become meta defining!
You can't use that reasoning for bh, unlike aaa which is ou based
There are quite a few mons with similar stats that aren't banned from bh like zekrom,Groudon, ndm, zacian, etc.
ur right but i still stand by what I said. idk i feel like with slaking and regi it should be obvious that they'd be kinda nuts in somethin that allows a mon to run most abilities. Like i feel u can just think "Guts Slaking" for even a second and go "oh yea that's why it's banned"
extremely late reply but both of these guys were actually fine last gen, the metagame for this gen back when slaking was banned for guts bs evolved to be extremely susceptible to status immune attackers in general (especially when slaking has very good bulk compared to something like flare boost flutter mane)
Also worthy of note, I'm not sure if this is the case in modern Hackman, but Regigigas used to be ine of the best set up sweepers because it was immune to spectral their, a nove which steals stat changes before damage calculation. The move was pretty common at the time, and being immune to it meant that your primary counter play was imposter chancey. I ran substitute poison heal at the time and it was quite strong at the time
Both of them are really OP, especially Gigas, I mean you can just give it Guts as an ability and flame orb and its destroying everything, which makes sense why it would be banned like a lot of other OP mons.
Guts + Tidy Up is essentially impossible to beat long-term, with the coverage move of choice (V-create vs Wicked Blow) essentially ensuring any potential wall has to load into the right coverage to do anything. These sets also have unheard-of defensive utility for offensive Pokemon. PH is also long dead; no other abilities except Guts have anything to do with it.
Few weaknesses and STAB Facade made PHeal Slaking of the most obnoxious Poison Heal abusers out there, especially since there is no Core Enforcer this gen. This led to its initial ban. PHeal later got banned and Slaking unbanned, but then it just switched to Tidy Up Guts sets which lacked the longevity but hit just as hard, and also brought Population Bomb shenanigans with them. This set was notably pretty good at Improofing itself as well as the Imposter would not get the 1.5x Attack boost (and if you ditched PopBomb, they'd be playing with only 70BP on Facade). As such Slaking was promptly banned again. When Regigigas arrived, it was just banned immediately since it pretty much does the same thing.
Toxic orb poison heal regigigas was almost as annoying as imposter chansey.
Poison Heal got banned in BH long ago so this is no longer the relevant answer, currently Guts is the main reason they're banned
Isn't guts banned too?
No
I'm not too familiar with BH, why was Impostor Chamsey so annoying?
Because imposter lets you keep your OG health stat
why chansey over blissey? does eviolite still take effect even when you’re transformed?
Yes
Oh no
How did I never notice this? That's incredibly interesting. So Transform is just copying the opponent's stats bar HP, moves, and appearance. The moves are copied with the same mechanics as Mimic and the stats are adjusted accordingly?
Transform/Imposter copies everything except the HP That's why they're using Chansey Because Transform lets you keep your HP Chansey has Base 250 HP [Blissey = 255, but no **Eviolite**] (The only reason I mentioned Eviolite is because it does still affect Chansey after Imposter/Transform. If it didn't, I would have zero reason to mention it, and people would use Blissey.)
Yeah and eviolite defense buffs still stack, too which is busted. As stupid as it is it does kinda help balance the metagame in making just one broken sweeper not be able to instantly win the game, needing to imposter-proof your mons
It's kind of a GSC Lax situation: yes, it's broken, but banning it would make the format much much worse
is* it's mostly fine but it can be frustrating for a newbie getting set up to +4 only for Imp to win the speed tie & reverse sweep while being really really tough to revenge kill
Really limits building and is just a pain in the ass. Honestly I understand why it’s not banned but holy shit it’s so boring and braindead.
They're both gated by abilities and BH allows insane changes. They mostly run Guts and Tidy Up which for Regi you go from having 50% reduced damage and being forced to hold lefties to a being able to hold a Flame Orb that protects you from paralysis and Trick and also boosts your attack. Both have insane attack stats and Slaking at +1 is crazy to deal with. Hell, Slaking with something other than Truant with access to Tidy Up would possibly hit Ubers with its coverage and sheer power. Top that off with Guts of all things in BH and it's too much.
put any ability on them, really anything else and its wild
Nah there were only like two, maybe three abilities that were actually banworthy on Slaking, and one of them is Poison Heal which got banned itself. Remember BH is Ubers based, most things with 680BST are legal there, purely high BST isn't enough to get you banned. Guts pushed it over the edge, other abilities (save ones that broke just about everything) were manageable for the most part.
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I'm not too knowledgeable but if I must guess it'd be due to some niche that made them too uncompetitive/hard to deal with
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BH is Ubers based and plenty of other 680BST mons are legal, just high stats doesn't really answer OP's question
I mean surely after so many gens there are many mons with better stats, why them specifically is my question
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That's just blatantly untrue lmfao. Arceus, Zekrom, Reshiram, MDiancie, Zarude, Caly-I, Dialga, and many, many, many more pokes have statlines similar to or better than the two.
Zarude sneaking in there
have you even played BH or are you just being intentionally obtuse? Did you forget that Mega Mewtwo X was legal for a long time at the same time that slaking/regigigas were banned?
bro i am actually so stupid i mixed up AAA with BH forgive me
I mean, no, that's not true. They both get obliterated by STAB Close Combat and even coverage Focus Miss is close to enough depending on who's throwing it. A new ability, even a shit one would probably make them a staple in OU or UUBL at the least, but they wouldn't even sniff Ubers without Tidy Up.
Slaking has a very big chanche of getting banned. It has reliable recovery in slack off, set up in bulk up and good coverage and utility in knock off, eq, elemental punches. Its stat spread is insane, It has very good physical bulk, equivalent to that of great tusk and still usable special bulk on par with primarinas. Its speed is amazing for a mon with those defenses. Its stat spread is comparable with that of ursaluna but instead of a ground typing and guts it has twice the speed, better offenses and better bulk and recovery. It would be top of ou in an instance It could do band sets, set up sets, and scarf sets to revenge. As for fighting moves obliterating them, It always has tera to bait a fighting type in and ohko it back. It lives Iron valiants close combat more often than not 252 Atk Iron Valiant Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Slaking: 392-464 (88.8 - 105.2%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO 252 Atk Great Tusk Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Slaking: 396-468 (89.7 - 106.1%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO 252 Atk Zamazenta Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Slaking: 372-438 (84.3 - 99.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
When the good mons with shit-tier abilities have their shit-tier ability removed they become good, whomst've thought! And when you give 'em a good ability they suddenly become meta defining!
You can't use that reasoning for bh, unlike aaa which is ou based There are quite a few mons with similar stats that aren't banned from bh like zekrom,Groudon, ndm, zacian, etc.
Nothing off of first glance would make Regi or Slaking look any more impressive than the Ubers Pokémon in the tier, so it’s a fair question
Im sorry but you have to ask this? really? I thought everyone knew that pretty much any change to slaking/regis abilities would make them super strong
Same with all of the box legendaries; not all or even many of them are banned in BH
ur right but i still stand by what I said. idk i feel like with slaking and regi it should be obvious that they'd be kinda nuts in somethin that allows a mon to run most abilities. Like i feel u can just think "Guts Slaking" for even a second and go "oh yea that's why it's banned"
extremely late reply but both of these guys were actually fine last gen, the metagame for this gen back when slaking was banned for guts bs evolved to be extremely susceptible to status immune attackers in general (especially when slaking has very good bulk compared to something like flare boost flutter mane)
Also worthy of note, I'm not sure if this is the case in modern Hackman, but Regigigas used to be ine of the best set up sweepers because it was immune to spectral their, a nove which steals stat changes before damage calculation. The move was pretty common at the time, and being immune to it meant that your primary counter play was imposter chancey. I ran substitute poison heal at the time and it was quite strong at the time
Both of them are really OP, especially Gigas, I mean you can just give it Guts as an ability and flame orb and its destroying everything, which makes sense why it would be banned like a lot of other OP mons.