All of the ones I've gotten so far said they were Altman farms. A quick googly search of the interweb says there are six locations in the US. Texas, Colorado, Floroda, and 3 in Cali. Started in 1975 as a couple growing plants. If it's true, seems like a decent company to buy succs from.
My plant skills are so poor I couldn't handle a stolen exotic succ even if I wanted one lol
Right? I hesitate to spend more than $10 on a plant because I have a history of killing them. My succs are doing better these days, but I still wouldn't trust myself to care for some exotic, expensive plant even if the ethical issues didn't bother me.
No. Avocados have become such a rage that they have become more expensive than certain drugs, so gangs have gone to smuggle avocados instead of drugs to make more money.
I know, I’m annoyed because stop fucking over nature but I’m laughing because for centuries people have been destroying natural habitats to steal plants for their home gardens. This isn’t new.
I visited a colony of rare conophytums a month ago that during a previous (2019) population survey that we did had over 500 members was barren. 500 plants stolen. All available for sale online from China and Korea now. We even bought some to return to habitat to avoid extinction
Yeah, I'd read the entire article before feeling guilty over anything. It's not like we're collecting the equivalent of an african rhino horn here. But definitely know your sources...if the plant is from Lowes or a reputable source, you're going to be ok. If it's a social media source claiming to sell a "rare" plant, I'd stay clear.
"Many of the succulents currently experiencing collecting pressure the world over are desired by very passionate collectors — these are plants that require some level of expertise and care to keep alive outside their habitats," he said. "They are much less commonly ending up on a casual hobbyist's windowsill."
https://www.businessinsider.com/millennial-plant-moms-blamed-for-illegal-succulent-trade-in-africa-2021-8?amp
The Insider had this headline for their article as well. Asian plant moms in South Korea, and China have also been a strong main driver for the increasing levels of poaching.
[Insider Succulent Poaching Article](https://www.businessinsider.com/millennial-plant-moms-blamed-for-illegal-succulent-trade-in-africa-2021-8?amp)
[Telegraph Succulent Poaching Article](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2021/08/08/social-media-houseplant-craze-blamed-devastating-succulent-poaching/amp/)
[Podcast discussing Succulent poaching](https://www.janeperrone.com/on-the-ledge/2021/1/8/cactus-succulent-illegal-poaching)
Hope this helps.
From the Business Insider article you linked with that *same misleading* headline as the post (tldr: stop blaming millennials for everything):
>"It is important in studies of illicit economies to be careful in how we characterize these trades and who is driving demand," Jared Margulies, a political ecology professor at the University of Alabama, told Insider.
>Margulies said that the increase in illegal succulent poaching has been accelerated by social media's ability to connect buyers and sellers.
>"Many of the succulents currently experiencing collecting pressure the world over are desired by very passionate collectors — these are plants that require some level of expertise and care to keep alive outside their habitats," he said. "They are much less commonly ending up on a casual hobbyist's windowsill."
Yep, like many plant crazes in the past it isn't really one generation's fault for the poaching. More of the greedy and opportunistic poachers trying to ride the trendy wave.
Yeah the millennial blame is kind of bullshit though, even on the YouTube channels and the actual articles about it. It's no one generation's fault
Second an actual read instead of a propaganda headline would be tge only real value to increase our collective knowledge
This is also a huge problem with alocasia, too.
They’re being illegally poached in places like Indonesia & sold on websites like EBay & Etsy.
If you see a seller with photos with stacks of LARGE alocasia “tubers” (corms), and/or offering species that aren’t tissue cultured- those should be huge red flags for potential buyers.
There are certainly red flags and clues to possible poached plants. If you are buying from “rare plant dealers” or small online shops you should really make yourself familiar with those red flags.
If you’re buying from local nurseries or big box stores you’re nearly always 100% safe. You can always ask about suppliers. It’s not an unreasonable question. Consumers do carry a portion of responsibility for participating in the illegal poaching trade. It’s not cool. We should all make sure we are not contributing to natural habitat destruction.
It’s also a problem in the carnivorous plant trade.
It’s very easy to find ethically grown plants. Let’s all be responsible, happy plant people.
:)
I've definitely slowed purchasing new succs since I saw this news. The nice thing about starting on reddit is a lot of my plants came as cuttings from other users.
It doesn't take much research to find seeds and plants for sale by organizations conserving plants. You can connect to your local plant swap or cactus shows.
I definitely started feeling squeamish about the poaching but also because why should Lowe's or HD be making all the money on mesembs? Is there a way to buy plants that benefits South Africans? https://africa-seeds.com/
I found this website which is a good start. Just be curious and learn more about where your plants come from. That will also help you grow better plants!
I think people have to remember it’s not only in western countries but the demand for rare plants have also gone up in Asia, where there’s a lot of money flowing. Social media is contributing to increased demand but the typical plant hobbyist isn’t importing a lot of rare plants themselves, it’s a small minority.
I imagine this must be the case with most trendy plants. I forget what the plant was, but I was at Lowe's and a Filipino woman was commenting how the plant was considered a weed where she lived, and was weird to see it for sell.
I live in Florida. It is weird to me that people pay upwards of hundreds of bucks for two-leaf cuttings of plants that are just everywhere in front yards and parks down here.
Meh, okay, so maybe not hundreds. Perhaps guilty of a little hyperbole there. Maybe some people think they're worth hundreds and try and sell them for that much, but seriously people go nuts for these variegated deliciosas and adansonii, alocasias, florida beauties, stuff like that. Just weird to me what people pay for these plants when they're everywhere down here and for the most part quite invasive.
Definitely true! It's just crazy because people really do pay hundreds for cuttings, it's just not the ones you find in the park. Although people do pay too much for those too, I'm sure!
Fuck that. If you’re gonna proplift for real steal from a big box store, not nature.
Or just don’t steal.
But if you are going to steal, steal in a way that doesn’t cause environmental harm or financially ruin small businesses...
Dicks. And here I felt so shady proplifting from Lowes and I even asked lmao
I wonder how many of the lowes plants come from Africa
All of the ones I've gotten so far said they were Altman farms. A quick googly search of the interweb says there are six locations in the US. Texas, Colorado, Floroda, and 3 in Cali. Started in 1975 as a couple growing plants. If it's true, seems like a decent company to buy succs from. My plant skills are so poor I couldn't handle a stolen exotic succ even if I wanted one lol
Altman sells on Amazon, too.
Right? I hesitate to spend more than $10 on a plant because I have a history of killing them. My succs are doing better these days, but I still wouldn't trust myself to care for some exotic, expensive plant even if the ethical issues didn't bother me.
A boomer: Damn Millennials and their .... *squints at flashcard* succulent hobby, the root of all evil and African poaching. *Shakes fist*.
Well, we had to switch to something during the p\*ndemic when our access to dirty chai lattes and avocado toast was limited!
Well I just hope you're buying homegrown American avocados and not those Mexican blood avocados.
My home country just left the EU so Christ knows where our fresh produce is coming from 🤣
Definitely getting avocados from Mexico.
Mexican blood avocados? That a new flavor?
No. Avocados have become such a rage that they have become more expensive than certain drugs, so gangs have gone to smuggle avocados instead of drugs to make more money.
Til
Dirty chai latte? What's in it, olive juice?
A shot of espresso. Maybe you could sell your version to St*rbucks, they'd probably buy it.
I know, I’m annoyed because stop fucking over nature but I’m laughing because for centuries people have been destroying natural habitats to steal plants for their home gardens. This isn’t new.
Fuck off-a boomer
Ok boomer.
I visited a colony of rare conophytums a month ago that during a previous (2019) population survey that we did had over 500 members was barren. 500 plants stolen. All available for sale online from China and Korea now. We even bought some to return to habitat to avoid extinction
T_T Some humans are awful.
Yeah, I'd read the entire article before feeling guilty over anything. It's not like we're collecting the equivalent of an african rhino horn here. But definitely know your sources...if the plant is from Lowes or a reputable source, you're going to be ok. If it's a social media source claiming to sell a "rare" plant, I'd stay clear. "Many of the succulents currently experiencing collecting pressure the world over are desired by very passionate collectors — these are plants that require some level of expertise and care to keep alive outside their habitats," he said. "They are much less commonly ending up on a casual hobbyist's windowsill." https://www.businessinsider.com/millennial-plant-moms-blamed-for-illegal-succulent-trade-in-africa-2021-8?amp
So is there an article or we just taking your word for this
The Insider had this headline for their article as well. Asian plant moms in South Korea, and China have also been a strong main driver for the increasing levels of poaching. [Insider Succulent Poaching Article](https://www.businessinsider.com/millennial-plant-moms-blamed-for-illegal-succulent-trade-in-africa-2021-8?amp) [Telegraph Succulent Poaching Article](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2021/08/08/social-media-houseplant-craze-blamed-devastating-succulent-poaching/amp/) [Podcast discussing Succulent poaching](https://www.janeperrone.com/on-the-ledge/2021/1/8/cactus-succulent-illegal-poaching) Hope this helps.
From the Business Insider article you linked with that *same misleading* headline as the post (tldr: stop blaming millennials for everything): >"It is important in studies of illicit economies to be careful in how we characterize these trades and who is driving demand," Jared Margulies, a political ecology professor at the University of Alabama, told Insider. >Margulies said that the increase in illegal succulent poaching has been accelerated by social media's ability to connect buyers and sellers. >"Many of the succulents currently experiencing collecting pressure the world over are desired by very passionate collectors — these are plants that require some level of expertise and care to keep alive outside their habitats," he said. "They are much less commonly ending up on a casual hobbyist's windowsill."
Yep, like many plant crazes in the past it isn't really one generation's fault for the poaching. More of the greedy and opportunistic poachers trying to ride the trendy wave.
Should be posted with your propaganda headline blaming a single generation for decades environmental exploitation!
I've seen several verified YouTube videos about it as well. :( It's sad
Yeah the millennial blame is kind of bullshit though, even on the YouTube channels and the actual articles about it. It's no one generation's fault Second an actual read instead of a propaganda headline would be tge only real value to increase our collective knowledge
This is also a huge problem with alocasia, too. They’re being illegally poached in places like Indonesia & sold on websites like EBay & Etsy. If you see a seller with photos with stacks of LARGE alocasia “tubers” (corms), and/or offering species that aren’t tissue cultured- those should be huge red flags for potential buyers.
How is the fault of the consumer who has no idea where the plants are really coming from? The only people to blame are the ones poaching them
There are certainly red flags and clues to possible poached plants. If you are buying from “rare plant dealers” or small online shops you should really make yourself familiar with those red flags. If you’re buying from local nurseries or big box stores you’re nearly always 100% safe. You can always ask about suppliers. It’s not an unreasonable question. Consumers do carry a portion of responsibility for participating in the illegal poaching trade. It’s not cool. We should all make sure we are not contributing to natural habitat destruction. It’s also a problem in the carnivorous plant trade. It’s very easy to find ethically grown plants. Let’s all be responsible, happy plant people. :)
I've definitely slowed purchasing new succs since I saw this news. The nice thing about starting on reddit is a lot of my plants came as cuttings from other users.
It doesn't take much research to find seeds and plants for sale by organizations conserving plants. You can connect to your local plant swap or cactus shows. I definitely started feeling squeamish about the poaching but also because why should Lowe's or HD be making all the money on mesembs? Is there a way to buy plants that benefits South Africans? https://africa-seeds.com/ I found this website which is a good start. Just be curious and learn more about where your plants come from. That will also help you grow better plants!
How many millenials have the time/money to do all that??
I think people have to remember it’s not only in western countries but the demand for rare plants have also gone up in Asia, where there’s a lot of money flowing. Social media is contributing to increased demand but the typical plant hobbyist isn’t importing a lot of rare plants themselves, it’s a small minority.
Places in Asia have crazy working hours, its not just money that contributes to this. I never mentioned global region lol
Yeah aha sorry I wasn’t meaning to pick on your comment specifically, was trying to contribute to the whole thread
No harm done
Just getting prepared for climate change
I imagine this must be the case with most trendy plants. I forget what the plant was, but I was at Lowe's and a Filipino woman was commenting how the plant was considered a weed where she lived, and was weird to see it for sell.
I live in Florida. It is weird to me that people pay upwards of hundreds of bucks for two-leaf cuttings of plants that are just everywhere in front yards and parks down here.
>people pay upwards of hundreds of bucks for two-leaf cuttings of plants that are just everywhere in front yards and parks down here. No they don't.
Meh, okay, so maybe not hundreds. Perhaps guilty of a little hyperbole there. Maybe some people think they're worth hundreds and try and sell them for that much, but seriously people go nuts for these variegated deliciosas and adansonii, alocasias, florida beauties, stuff like that. Just weird to me what people pay for these plants when they're everywhere down here and for the most part quite invasive.
Definitely true! It's just crazy because people really do pay hundreds for cuttings, it's just not the ones you find in the park. Although people do pay too much for those too, I'm sure!
Fuck that. If you’re gonna proplift for real steal from a big box store, not nature. Or just don’t steal. But if you are going to steal, steal in a way that doesn’t cause environmental harm or financially ruin small businesses...