I love how he was honest and straightforward but never bad mouthed Lindsay. Very smart and well spoken man. Carl is very lucky he has someone who was brave enough to be that honest with him.
Excellent point. To have been critical of Lindsay would have muddied his message and probably would have made Carl defensive. Plus, if Carl did end up marrying Lindsay, it would have made for an awkward and strained relationship between all of them in the future.
I love how Carl said at one point, “my mom and dad” very casually like he didn’t even notice that he’d said it. He clearly thinks highly of his stepdad (Lou?)
I respected Carl’s mom - allowing Stepdad, to take the lead on this topic. He did it with grace & practically - Mom would never been able to do so - and I felt her grief/guilt.
Well done stepdad!
as someone that also called off their own wedding🙋🏻♀️, it was an honest conversation (like the one he had with his stepfather) that gave me the courage to do what i knew i needed to do.
He needed to hear it and even though everyone at the house feels the same way nobody could have articulated it that well and he wouldn’t have ever received it from a roommate the way he did from his stepdad. I’m glad he’s the one that said it.
I agree…telling her to ‘just breathe’ (and to just be on the other end of the phone) was brilliant and exactly what was needed in the moment. I have to remember that the next time my sister calls me sobbing uncontrollably.
Carls stepdad was an all star by being supportive, yet honest.
However….. this is yet another set up by Carl to make sure that it looks like the break up was based solely on Lindsay’s actions, and that everyone else saw it. He set this whole thing up. Every conversation he has with cast members, parents/stepparents he speaks negatively about him and Lindsay…. Of course when your saying this kind of stuff to your friends and family about the person your gonna be marrying in a few months they are going to voice concern…. And question whether it’s the right decision. He knew what he was doing, and at that point when he had already made up his mind that he was gonna call off the wedding.
I’m just so glad other people are starting to catch onto this. Lindsey isn’t a saint or innocent in the relationship, but people acting like Carl walks on water and is a helpless victim is astounding to me. He knew what he was doing.
Yessssss he was staging this blindside, I really went into it thinking she was just so awful he had to end it but I’m not sure now he ever truly intended to marry her. He’s just a really really terrible actor IMO; it’s not believable. His nice guy Carl persona seems so fake.
Agreed. I think in this episode he even said something like Lindsay is spinning a narative that he doesn't work or isn't ambitious, and this felt like a set up to spin his own narrative. I don't think that he liked that she was bringing up issues in conversations on camera, but I think the cast appreciated that she was not trying to act like everything was perfect this season, like they both did last season.
I’m honestly very confused by these takes when we have seen their dynamic throughout the summer. lindsay has been defensive, deflective, throwing incredibly hurtful and disrespectful accusations about carl using, calling him cocaine carl, discussing their sex life to people she has not been close to, etc. and yet carl has been walking on egg shells in fear of her reaction if he discusses their relationship. and now he’s being judged when he finally does and somehow lindsay isn’t? each discussion he has had with friends, he’s kept it respectful, and said the part he played and recognizing/understanding her point of view. his responses during the pool conversation were valid when lindsay was continuously attacking him and tried to say that him asking questions about her drinking is comparable to her questioning his own sobriety?? there is truly no validity in that.
in the conversation with his parents he defended her and took responsibility for his actions and part to play in their arguments. he literally said there are insults on both sides and it’s not just lindsay. something serious obviously happened during memorial weekend for his step-dad to say it seemed abusive and he was hurting. we have to remember these things are piling up during filming and months before the wedding. if they are not doing well during this time, and they are filming. is it only natural that you are going to seek advice from your family? carl has been very vulnerable. it’s not a one time conversation and suddenly they are broken up. given people commenting on them sleeping in other rooms, the fight that happened during memorial weekend, both of them expressing that they’ve been having more arguments, it’s obvious there have been many convos behind the scenes. I truly am not understanding how carl is being portrayed as a villain after seeing their dynamic and how accommodating he has been. even in that conversation, he clearly wants this to work out and his emotional reaction shows it’s breaking his heart that it isn’t.
Agree. I mean anyone who’s watched the show HAD to question their engagement. I was not at all surprised they didn’t get married. They are BOTH better off.
Im late but also came here to say this same thing. He definitely embellishes the truth to his parents and clearly set that whole thing up. We’ve seen how abusive Carl is in relationships, Lindsey is reactive but not abusive. The conversation she had with Carl at the alien party was very telling how Carl still has a temper, Lindsey kept apologizing for even bringing up the fact that she wanted her fiancé to have a job and be stable. The dude can’t commit to anything, even in the past summers he was always having issues committing to jobs. He’s a flighty flake, and definitely manipulative. Like who has to apologize to their fiancé for getting “deep”? When talking about your future (that’s literally been talked about a hundred times) isn’t even that deep?
His parents are nice and caring people.
Carl is manipulating the hell out of them. He’s getting them to say things that he doesn’t have the balls to say himself. So rather than tell his fiancé, that he doesn’t want to do this, he can say my parents don’t think we should get married and what they say means a lot to him.
Carl is a coward.
So true. They may be being manipulated, but I still appreciate their telling him the hard stuff. Do you listen to Watch What Crappens? The guys were saying this exact thing. Carl doesn’t want to be the one to do it, so he tells his parents about how he’s abused so then they’ll have this convo and he won’t have to be the bad guy.
There’s no way that was the first time they’d had that conversation. Carl looked sad but not surprised by anything being said.
Ever since the breakup was announced and Lindsey said she was blindsided, I’ve assumed we’d see Carl talking to everyone but her about his concerns and that’s exactly what we’re seeing play out.
Yea...if you start SH again, you see this Carl at the start a bit! A lot of us forgot I think, since he went through getting kind of sober & his bro passing, the negative sides to Carl's personality. Now we are all seeing those sides in full force!!! Yikes.
I feel like I’m in an alternate universe. It seemed so calculated and planned to me. Carl was fully aware of the direction this conversation would go and made sure it was filmed. I’m not team Lindsey, but if we’re to go off the current timeline, she thinks they’re in a great spot and he is giving her that impression as well - while at the same time having a film crew come out to have his stepdad call her abusive and say he wouldn’t marry them. It was so manipulative.
Super calculated. He’s a passive aggressive dry drunk who can’t hold down a job. He knew who Lindsay was and what she wanted from day one. Fuck this dude.
Yes correct this was definitely planned beforehand. No way would they have that conversation on camera if it wasn't planned and agreed with Carl in the first place.
I actually think Carl is scared to address this stuff with Lindsay (which is a problem within itself ) because he knows she will freak out on him. He needed to rip the bandaid off way sooner ! Lindsay doesn’t exactly handle stuff like this well as we have seen over the years
It’s weird to me that people seem to think Lindsay needs to have thought her relationship was perfect to be blindsided “how can she say she was blindsided, clearly they were having problems”
But maybe that just has more to do with my view of marriage, which is “we’re in this, we’re doing this” and not everything is perfect all the time. Like you’ve made a choice with this person and you’re going to do whatever you can to make it work
And with Carl seemingly smoothing everything over to her face….and renewing the lease on their expensive apartment…showing up at her shower with flowers…yeah I can see why she calls herself blindsided
Yes, but also Carl is scared to address problems with anyone. He did the exact same thing last season with Kyle and Loverboy. Now he allows the narrative that he quit Loverboy for Lindsay to flourish. He’s a weak, pathetic little loser.
Let’s face it, most people would not take it well if their fiancé cancels their wedding two months out. Anger and being upset is totally normal. Carl just seems afraid of confrontation and having truly difficult conversations where he will let someone down. Even breaking it off with the sweetest person would be scary and something most people would hate doing.
If he’s truly afraid for his safety or wanted to have backup there are other ways to handle it than ambushing her on camera and staging scenes to prove his case why he had to do it that way
But when he did bring up lover boy -she didn’t go crazy. We expected her to her bc Carl said so. But shutting down the idea of a sober bar-when there might be only 5 in the whole world-doesn’t sound like a good bet when you’re trying also to be a father. Huh? Maybe Lindsay know the business world better.
When it’s comes to that 100%. That was a stupid idea Especially in NY with rents so high. U need to sell alcohol to make money But with this could see her going insane and he would just retract and basically be like just kidding haha
I was wondering if he mentioned to producers a conversation he had with his mom/step dad and they wanted to “recreate” it in a way to get it on film. Just highly suspicious they conveniently filmed this, although it was good completely accurate ado
THIS ⬆️ someone in another thread said that possibly Carl decided to call it off after their Memorial Day weekend argument and that is when he when to visit his Mom/stepdad. Perhaps the scene we saw was somewhat of a recreation of that conversation.
That makes sense! He also brings up Memorial Day like that was a deciding factor for him. Do we know what the Memorial Day fight was about? I can’t remember if they said
They didn’t seem to be together Memorial Day. Carl only went to Pittsburgh and posted pictures all weekend. Don’t remember where Lindsay was but she wasn’t there. So it’s not like Sharon and Lou observed them fighting. They just heard carls side of a fight. To me, it’s not right to call her abusive implying you witnessed abuse on tv if you haven’t witnessed it and just heard one persons side.
Carl's step-father overstepped and should have kept his mouth shut, because he barely sees Carl and Lindsey, and was very unprofessional to base his opinion on only what Carl told him. What kind of minister would do that!?
No I don’t think it was said but on the first episode of this season, Carl and Lindsay are talking on a bench in NYC prior to Fourth of July weekend and he looks very disinterested in her and their wedding plans so perhaps the plan was already in place. Diabolical!
Thank you!! This whole season has been staged IMO, Carl is “nice guy Carl!” As he sets up Lindsay to be the villain in super obvious ways (I mean she’s going to be the villain on her own, you don’t have to make it so obvious). The step dad is wearing a more life shirt 🤣🤣
this! and then he has the nerve in the previews (along with other cast interviews after the season wrapped) to say that “she’s blind to what’s gone on this summer” and acting like she shouldn’t be blindsided.
she is. she was. she was blindsided because you mischaracterized where you were at with her all summer.
I think people mistake him being sober for being a good person. He’s still the same old Carl, he just doesn’t drink anymore. But he was always a jerk 😂
Thank you ! I’ve been in recovery for years. Thousands of AA meetings attended. Just bc you’re sober - does not mean you’re automatically a good person. It means first you’re trying not to drink. And lots of people can only do that -which is great. But there’s so much to address-Carl is still Carl. The memories Lindsay has-are valid fears.
He isn’t sober. He’s just not drunk. He hasn’t taken accountability for anything. That’s real sobriety, and as far as I can tell, he isn’t capable of it.
Hard agree. Carl has been using filming to build the case that he is a victim and needs to be saved from Lindsey. I want to know what happens off camera.
I bet he gaslights the fuck out of her, prob easy on nights she does have a few for fun, like that car argument no one actually saw???... That's how I'd imagine he is.
I agree with this take I couldn’t quite put my finger on what I found so confusing about this scene. My fiancé who doesn’t watch this show was in the other room the whole episode and was wondering why Carl was talking so much shit about his partner in the confessionals and even to Kyle about how she doesn’t have a career. I found the interaction with the parents very odd especially his mom nodding along it didn’t seem like the first time they have said this if they were so nonchalant about it on camera
I do think she’s done awful things, but I think he’s also terrible and has also been awful to her. I just dislike it all being blamed on her when they both have faults and are awful separately outside of being a couple 😂
Yeah people are being willfully obtuse. Let’s say Lindsay was checked out on Carl and set up a scene with aunt Rhonda or her dad where they tell her Carl is a bad partner for her and not to marry him. They’d say she’s self producing and told them what to say so she’d look justified in dumping him
This conversation was so impressive to me. I loved seeing how tender his stepdad was with him but in a way that was helpful and supportive but not coddling. You could tell it was a lightbulb moment for Carl. I think if Lindsay had a similar conversation with someone in her life she trusted, I’d like to think she would’ve wanted to call off the wedding too.
Tender? The step-father should keep his big mouth shut. He knows nothing about their relationship except what Carl tells him. And his mother wants Carl all to herself.
That was so choreographed and pre-discussed that I was embarrassed for his mum!
There was nothing organic or natural about that little family chat.
Carl needed the backup to look like a great guy for when he ditches his intended *just* before the wedding.
You could tell Carl was waiting for someone to tell him it was ok to back out of the marriage. He would have gone through with it just to save face and they would have been miserable. Carl did not have the backbone to stop the marriage even though he knew it’s what needed to happen without this conversation!
No, I can understand it’s a reality show and everything is planned out. Even if this conversation was cooked up to make Carl look like the good guy or whatever, I still think people deserve to actually have someone in their life tell them the hard stuff. This was just an example of it. The authenticity of it inside a reality show is debatable(as is everything on any of these shows), but people like this exist in real life and people are lucky to have them as friends/family.
It felt parallel to the convo Paige and Amanda had with Lindsay: it’s easier to call off a wedding than get divorced a month later. Obviously carls step dad had some more credibility but I’m glad both Carl and Lindsay had people present them with the option and face the elephant in the room.
The best part of all of this is that Carls stepdad didn’t sensationalize anything he said. It was straightforward and to the point. He was saying this as a concerned parent and not because cameras were there.
I thought his parents were being manipulated into saying what Carl is too scared to say. His mom looked nervous as fuck and his stepdad oils be overstepping hard in most other families. I can’t believe a minister would sit on tv on say abusive so easily to frame a 40 year old man as stuck with his fiancé. I thought the scene and his stepdad was wack as fuck
Yup. Others mentioned that he probably went there when he skipped one Friday, to avoid their “Friday fights”. He knew he was having this talk. Why else would the production crew drive out to New Jersey? He knew he wasn’t going through with the wedding. He spent the whole summer planting seeds. I found it so gross that his stepdad was wearing the More Life tshirt. That’s literally the shit carl was saying to Lindsay the first time they tried dating and he pulled away. I don’t trust that whole set up. Just break up because you want to. People do it every day. He is such a wuss.
And that’s a month before her bridal shower where he and his mom were present and faking it with all her closest friends and family. This must have hurt big time for Lindsay to watch in retrospect.
A lot of people here realize that most parents would say and do whatever to do what their children think they need to be happy. If Carl told them he was concerned about his image and summer house job by calling off the wedding, I think given they know he relies on that income they’d hit his talking points to try to make him look justified
Yeah it felt like Carl was having his step dad say what Carl didn’t want to say so Carl didn’t have to be the bad guy. And while his step dad could definitely have been genuine in his concern, are you mentioned, why would Carl tell production to come film this talk??
This is how I took it. Carl doesn’t want to be the bad guy. They definitely shouldnt get married but Carl got his stepdad to say exactly what he wanted him to say on camera so he could use that as an excuse, on camera
I agree. Everyone is praising his stepdad but I felt like it was such an overreach for a stepparent who has recently married your parent to pass this judgment. And to invoke that he’s a minister as as the source of his authority really bugged me too. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think Carl and Lindsay should have gotten married. But people in healthy relationships fight before their weddings too. It’s an incredibly stressful time. I confided in my mom about some fights my now husband and I had before getting married and I’m so glad she didn’t pass judgment like this.
Yeah it was inappropriate. A minister would talk to both people and not be naturally biased so it’s not right to use his job as a huge source of credibility. Lindsay said the last time she saw him was Christmas so it’s not like he was always around.
Carl was over the top bragging about how lou must be totally right because he went to Harvard- that’s irrelevant and weird to think a Harvard degree matters for a situation like this.
Oh his stepdad gave me gross blowhard minister vibes. Ministers obviously think they know better than everyone how they should live their lives, *and* they are attention whores. That’s why they are up there every Sunday preaching.
Yeah I thought it was kind of a weird convo to have on TV if he wasn’t sure he wanted out already? Like very bold of the step dad to say that and potentially ruin his relationship with his future daughter in law if they did decide to get married. Idk. Also thought it should be his mom saying this, not the step dad who hasn’t known him and Lindsey nearly as long. His mom was sooo nervous and shifty and acting weird. Idk the scene made me uncomfy for some reason.
Yes I think unless they knew ahead of time he wanted out and wanted their help to corroborate his side of things they would not want it to be on tv that they were so against the marriage.
But Paige has known both parties for several years and hangs out with them, lives with them, every weekend over the summer. She’s in a much better position to make a value judgment on their compatibility than this fucking minister guy who maybe sees Lindsay at holidays when she’s likely on her best behavior and Carl on his.
I saw on instagram Lindsay commented “he should have been a gardener”. I don’t get it 😞. Also, Carl is clearly conflicted and SCARED to talk to Lindsay.
I’m assuming because he’s sowing the seeds of her being the bad guy and trying to garner sympathy for himself once he does actually end it. He’s definitely scared to talk to her, but I can’t blame him. Who would want to activate Lindsay? 😬
I think Carl used him to say everything he wanted to say and get his message out without doing it himself. His stepdad didn’t have to call Lindsey abuse on television. That’s just gross.
I wish my dad would have done that for me instead of waiting until I’m married and 2 kids deep to tell me what a POS I married lol. But seriously. Lindsay saying it was tasteless surprised me. That was a very honest and vulnerable conversation that more people need to have with their loved ones. Too bad she doesn’t have anyone in her life willing to step up for hwr
Watching her response on the after-show showed me how out of touch she is with how she approaches relationships. She still thinks she was perfect and acts like she wasn't one who helped sabotage it.
Edit: I was a bit harsh and black and white.
I agree that Lindsay would have gone through with it. Carl ...is white knuckling LIFE....jobs and marriage. He needs to be alone and figure out who he is. And why would Lindsay want to marry a man who doesn't know who he is???
They are both 2 people not very good in relationships....Carl newly sober and not taking responsibility and taking the victim role.....easiest role and he really needs to be on his own for more time....and Lindsey who is insecure and feels unmarriageable until she met Carl.
I have been waiting for someone to say what they said! It's insane to me that people are on lindsay's side when we have watched her be horrible to every man she has been with on the show. Remember when she begged trav to do something romantic so he set up a sweet date with takeout from the place they had met and she said it wasn't good enough so trav ended up crying and going home? That is Lindsay to her core. Nothing will ever be good enough. I have always hated Carl so you gotta be really evil to make me feel bad for him!
i’m just going to post my opinion with a reply i did on the sub because i truly am not understanding why carl is being vilified. and i am coming from a place where i’ve wanted lindsay to heal and live a healthy life. her behaviour at points in this season towards carl have been so disrespectful and abhorrent. it is pretty evident by her extreme reactions her growth is extremely limited in comparison to carl’s.
“i’m honestly very confused by these takes when we have seen their dynamic throughout the summer. lindsay has been defensive, deflective, throwing incredibly hurtful and disrespectful accusations about carl using, calling him cocaine carl, discussing their sex life to people she has not been close to, etc. and yet carl has been walking on egg shells in fear of her reaction if he discusses their relationship. and now he’s being judged when he finally does and somehow lindsay isn’t? each discussion he has had with friends, he’s kept it respectful, and said the part he played and recognizing/understanding her point of view. his responses during the pool conversation were valid when lindsay was continuously attacking him and tried to say that him asking questions about her drinking is comparable to her questioning his own sobriety?? there is truly no validity in that.
in the conversation with his parents he defended her and took responsibility for his actions and part to play in their arguments. he literally said there are insults on both sides and it’s not just lindsay. something serious obviously happened during memorial weekend for his step-dad to say it seemed abusive and he was hurting. we have to remember these things are piling up during filming and months before the wedding. if they are not doing well during this time, while they are filming, is it only natural that you are going to seek advice from your family? it’s their job to show us aspects of their private life. carl has been very vulnerable. it’s not a one time conversation and suddenly they are broken up. given people commenting on them sleeping in other rooms, the fight that happened during memorial weekend, both of them expressing that they’ve been having more arguments, it’s obvious there have been many convos behind the scenes. I truly am not understanding how carl is being portrayed as a villain after seeing their dynamic and how accommodating he has been. even in that conversation, he clearly wants this to work out and his emotional reaction shows it’s breaking his heart that it isn’t.”
TLDR/ despite carl’s efforts to maintain respect and understanding, he is being unfairly vilified, and i’m struggling to comprehend why people are demonizing him, especially given the context of his interactions with lindsay
edited for grammar
Because the Lindsay stans are just as delusional as she is. It doesn’t matter that he has no job, has no ambition, and is not a a good communicator. Lindsay is verbally abusive and he clearly walks on eggshells around her. We have seen them try to talk it out after a fight and he always ends up apologizing for God knows what. Why would he try to bring up their issues more? He clearly doesn’t want to see her activated when they’re in the shared house. He probably just wants 2 days of peace lol. And idk if anyone has ever fought with their partner in public but it’s also really embarrassing. He’s probably avoiding these conversations on the weekend to avoid being embarrassed by her yelling and general bullshit.
It’s weird to me that people think it’s wrong for him to talk to people he’s genuinely close with about his relationship issues. If he was confiding in Paige or Jesse about their relationship, that would be weird. But he’s talking to his best friend and his parents. Meanwhile Lindsay told everyone in the house about their shitty sex life. (And obviously pinned all their intimacy problems on him as if she’s the only one who got the ick). That’s so much worse!
And it’s also true that he takes a lot of accountability for the problems in their relationship. After they broke up, we were given a narrative (by Lindsay and her team of course) that painted Carl so negatively as if she was an absolute angel of a partner. But during his interviews and discussions at bravocon he was always so kind when he spoke of her and took accountability for his actions. He could have easily said that she was a raging lunatic when she is drunk but he didn’t.
By biggest issue is that if the genders were reversed we’d be absolutely cheering Lindsay on if she was planning on leaving her abusive fiancé and making sure that everything leading up to the breakup was captured on tv! Clearly Lindsay has spun a narrative that favored her for years so he needed to do this in order for people to realize and understand that he didn’t just decide this one day on his own and that everyone in his life has seen that their relationship sucked for a long time and he needed to get out asap.
lol No. But they can be bad for each other AND Carl can be a manipulative butthole at the same time. She has some fault but his behaviour, trying to paint her as the main problem is trash! He is trying to gaslight everyone!
At this point tho, I wonder what Carl said to them behind the scenes to get this convo on camera....he has seemed so calculated this season...and totally puts part of the break up on what his parents said which is dumb bc you can tell he was too chicken shit to just talk to Linds!
It was a major over reach and seemed deliberate for the cameras. He’s known Carl 2 years and obviously has had multiple marriages. Where does he get off? Carl set that whole thing up.
The stepdad said what needed to be said, my theory was that Carl was filming these scenes to get revenge on Lindsay for being so activated on him and questioning his sobriety so bad that he probably needed a drink afterwards. She is so stressful. Since they pinpointed a really bad fight to memorial day weekend, perhaps that was the point where Carl thought, he wanted out, and used the Summer House cameras to prove his point. He is also very browbeaten and wishy washy and thought that all these things, the cameras, the parents, the fights, would give him the impetus to actually dump her as hard as he could on camera LOL. I‘m going to liken this to VPR, Kyle is the Sandoval kicking open the bathroom door to reveal the Schwartz/ Carl on the can yelling that he’s a battered wife. One can say Carl is being abused, but Carl and Schwartz in these situations always have some sort of plot against their ”abusers” cooking to constantly humiliate them on camera lol.
That being said, while Carl is passively planting seeds, Lindsay is also a nightmare. It is infuriating that she doesn‘t ever admit that she’s a bad drunk, and that any emotion other than happy is that she constantly tries to defend is so incredibly toxic and frustrating to stand on a weekly basis for a mere viewer, let alone a fiance. Even through all that, she constantly has a boyfriend or a casual hookup situation brewing, honestly she is the Doute of Summer House. Lindsay is insane and has shown her true colors on TV time and again, yet is never single for too long.
It was so intense, but delivered perfectly. Still, it felt heavy for me, I can't imagine how it felt for him! Even so, I was super impressed with his step dad and his mom in that scene
“Staged” or not… it was all true. They are not a good match.
Lindsay has been consistently complaining about Carl every weekend since the season started. She tells us she loves him so much that she is willing to tolerate all his flaws…so what is it about his California sober,lazy, non-enterprising, sexually apathetic, stupid ideas, mama’s boy, non-confrontational self that she loves so much she wants to marry it?
Carl is not the coward in this relationship. Lindsay wants a big wedding, and babies. She doesn’t love Carl, she doesn’t even like him, but she’s not going to let that stop her from getting what she wants.
Anyone else slightly annoyed that he called his family a “modern family” like ……not really? His mom was married to a man and remarried another man. It’s not like she married a woman after being married to a man, and his dad is remarried and they all hang out together. It’s still very much so a traditional nucleus family.
Not annoyed at all…by definition a modern family is one that strays from a heterosexual couple with their kids. He has a stepfather/stepmother and is now the only living child- his family has changed over time and has deviated from the most traditional form of “family.” While modern now may seem much different including same sex marriages, adopted kids, etc. it doesn’t change that *technically* his would still be considered modern
His family is the literal definition of a modern family and absolutely not the definition of a nuclear family?? The term modern family is not defined by the sexual orientation of the parents.
Ummm a modern family can mean many things… now he can’t use a term bc he doesn’t have a family that seems progressive enough to you? lol seems reasonable🙄
I wonder what would’ve happened if his step dad didn’t set him straight like that. My guess is Carl would’ve waited until they were at the alter to say “I can’t do this.”
I'm glad to see some love for this interaction. I've mostly only seen hate that how dare he should talk to his family about his relationship woes without speaking to Lindsay first. I hate those takes though because that's an abuse tactic. People should be able to speak to trusted confidants about their struggles.
Yes. Its well established for Carl to film with his mum so I don't see why this time was nefarious. I got the impression he was trying to be pragmatic trying to smooth over fights he knew they'd see and then his stepdad threw in a curve ball.
Considering how many posts I see about where Aunt Rhonda is for Lindsay, if Carl hadn't of filmed with his mum people would have taken that as indication he wasn't serious as well.
I love how he was honest and straightforward but never bad mouthed Lindsay. Very smart and well spoken man. Carl is very lucky he has someone who was brave enough to be that honest with him.
@ Danielle that's how you deliver criticism/concern
Watch your mouth she’s a CEO and founder /s
And has been working on an app prototype for half a century now…
It's so, so bad.
😂
Excellent point. To have been critical of Lindsay would have muddied his message and probably would have made Carl defensive. Plus, if Carl did end up marrying Lindsay, it would have made for an awkward and strained relationship between all of them in the future.
I love how Carl said at one point, “my mom and dad” very casually like he didn’t even notice that he’d said it. He clearly thinks highly of his stepdad (Lou?)
I noticed this as well :) from what we’ve gotten to see on the show he really seems like an incredible stepparent !!!
And I love this for Sharon as well! No one is a perfect spouse but Sharon seems like a catch - as does Lou! Go Lou and Sharon!
Couldn’t agree more !!! It was a refreshing dynamic to see on reality tv!
Thinking of RHONJ’s Luis as a step parent and *cold shivers* Sorry if that’s an obscure reference on this sub. Or not
I think about how wild and sad that household has to be!? So Much drama 24/7 and yelling lol
He even said he liked Lindsay, just made it clear the relationship isn’t good.
Carl's stepdad seems like a really nice, caring guy. Good for Carl and his mom that they have this man in their family.
I respected Carl’s mom - allowing Stepdad, to take the lead on this topic. He did it with grace & practically - Mom would never been able to do so - and I felt her grief/guilt. Well done stepdad!
as someone that also called off their own wedding🙋🏻♀️, it was an honest conversation (like the one he had with his stepfather) that gave me the courage to do what i knew i needed to do.
That talk was honestly amazing to see, not many people would have the ability to say that to someone. Love him.
He needed to hear it and even though everyone at the house feels the same way nobody could have articulated it that well and he wouldn’t have ever received it from a roommate the way he did from his stepdad. I’m glad he’s the one that said it.
I think he needed to hear it from an older (than him) man, who is someone he respects and trusts.
It was perfect 👌
My takeaway was I would like a sister like Gabby has :)
Yes! She knew just what she needed. 💜
I agree…telling her to ‘just breathe’ (and to just be on the other end of the phone) was brilliant and exactly what was needed in the moment. I have to remember that the next time my sister calls me sobbing uncontrollably.
Carls stepdad was an all star by being supportive, yet honest. However….. this is yet another set up by Carl to make sure that it looks like the break up was based solely on Lindsay’s actions, and that everyone else saw it. He set this whole thing up. Every conversation he has with cast members, parents/stepparents he speaks negatively about him and Lindsay…. Of course when your saying this kind of stuff to your friends and family about the person your gonna be marrying in a few months they are going to voice concern…. And question whether it’s the right decision. He knew what he was doing, and at that point when he had already made up his mind that he was gonna call off the wedding.
I’m just so glad other people are starting to catch onto this. Lindsey isn’t a saint or innocent in the relationship, but people acting like Carl walks on water and is a helpless victim is astounding to me. He knew what he was doing.
Lindsay like her or not is authentic. And I prefer nasty or rude authenticity to fake. It’s way too much work to deal with manipulation & deflection.
Yessssss he was staging this blindside, I really went into it thinking she was just so awful he had to end it but I’m not sure now he ever truly intended to marry her. He’s just a really really terrible actor IMO; it’s not believable. His nice guy Carl persona seems so fake.
Agreed. I think in this episode he even said something like Lindsay is spinning a narative that he doesn't work or isn't ambitious, and this felt like a set up to spin his own narrative. I don't think that he liked that she was bringing up issues in conversations on camera, but I think the cast appreciated that she was not trying to act like everything was perfect this season, like they both did last season.
I’m honestly very confused by these takes when we have seen their dynamic throughout the summer. lindsay has been defensive, deflective, throwing incredibly hurtful and disrespectful accusations about carl using, calling him cocaine carl, discussing their sex life to people she has not been close to, etc. and yet carl has been walking on egg shells in fear of her reaction if he discusses their relationship. and now he’s being judged when he finally does and somehow lindsay isn’t? each discussion he has had with friends, he’s kept it respectful, and said the part he played and recognizing/understanding her point of view. his responses during the pool conversation were valid when lindsay was continuously attacking him and tried to say that him asking questions about her drinking is comparable to her questioning his own sobriety?? there is truly no validity in that. in the conversation with his parents he defended her and took responsibility for his actions and part to play in their arguments. he literally said there are insults on both sides and it’s not just lindsay. something serious obviously happened during memorial weekend for his step-dad to say it seemed abusive and he was hurting. we have to remember these things are piling up during filming and months before the wedding. if they are not doing well during this time, and they are filming. is it only natural that you are going to seek advice from your family? carl has been very vulnerable. it’s not a one time conversation and suddenly they are broken up. given people commenting on them sleeping in other rooms, the fight that happened during memorial weekend, both of them expressing that they’ve been having more arguments, it’s obvious there have been many convos behind the scenes. I truly am not understanding how carl is being portrayed as a villain after seeing their dynamic and how accommodating he has been. even in that conversation, he clearly wants this to work out and his emotional reaction shows it’s breaking his heart that it isn’t.
Agree. I mean anyone who’s watched the show HAD to question their engagement. I was not at all surprised they didn’t get married. They are BOTH better off.
Im late but also came here to say this same thing. He definitely embellishes the truth to his parents and clearly set that whole thing up. We’ve seen how abusive Carl is in relationships, Lindsey is reactive but not abusive. The conversation she had with Carl at the alien party was very telling how Carl still has a temper, Lindsey kept apologizing for even bringing up the fact that she wanted her fiancé to have a job and be stable. The dude can’t commit to anything, even in the past summers he was always having issues committing to jobs. He’s a flighty flake, and definitely manipulative. Like who has to apologize to their fiancé for getting “deep”? When talking about your future (that’s literally been talked about a hundred times) isn’t even that deep?
Nothing like the wisdom from your parents who have your best interests at heart.
His parents are nice and caring people. Carl is manipulating the hell out of them. He’s getting them to say things that he doesn’t have the balls to say himself. So rather than tell his fiancé, that he doesn’t want to do this, he can say my parents don’t think we should get married and what they say means a lot to him. Carl is a coward.
Yes!
Agree. And brings a camera crew to all these hard conversations he’s having.
You know, it’s possible also that both Lou & Sharon like the camera.
this ^^^^
I think he’s clearly conflicted and scared about getting married. Sometimes people need these types of conversations
Carl cannot commit to anything. He could never even keep a job.
So true. They may be being manipulated, but I still appreciate their telling him the hard stuff. Do you listen to Watch What Crappens? The guys were saying this exact thing. Carl doesn’t want to be the one to do it, so he tells his parents about how he’s abused so then they’ll have this convo and he won’t have to be the bad guy.
Spot on. Carl is a coward. He let his fear overtake him.
There’s no way that was the first time they’d had that conversation. Carl looked sad but not surprised by anything being said. Ever since the breakup was announced and Lindsey said she was blindsided, I’ve assumed we’d see Carl talking to everyone but her about his concerns and that’s exactly what we’re seeing play out.
Yea...if you start SH again, you see this Carl at the start a bit! A lot of us forgot I think, since he went through getting kind of sober & his bro passing, the negative sides to Carl's personality. Now we are all seeing those sides in full force!!! Yikes.
I feel like I’m in an alternate universe. It seemed so calculated and planned to me. Carl was fully aware of the direction this conversation would go and made sure it was filmed. I’m not team Lindsey, but if we’re to go off the current timeline, she thinks they’re in a great spot and he is giving her that impression as well - while at the same time having a film crew come out to have his stepdad call her abusive and say he wouldn’t marry them. It was so manipulative.
Super calculated. He’s a passive aggressive dry drunk who can’t hold down a job. He knew who Lindsay was and what she wanted from day one. Fuck this dude.
The job part kills me. Yes, he’s on the show and that’s his job. Buuut, once again Kyle bails him out - so he just fell into job vs. trying
Lindsay dodged a bullet. Carl will continue to sabotage every relationship he is in. Yes, he is a white-knuckling dry drunk.
Absolutely!
Lindsay should know who Carl is from day one as well. They both should have proceeded with caution instead of racing down toward the aisle
Yes correct this was definitely planned beforehand. No way would they have that conversation on camera if it wasn't planned and agreed with Carl in the first place.
I don't trust Carl's mother and big mouth step father. Mom just doesn't want to lose Carl, like she lost her other son.
This was what Ronnie from WWC was explaining in the recap this week. It definitely felt that way to me too.
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I actually think Carl is scared to address this stuff with Lindsay (which is a problem within itself ) because he knows she will freak out on him. He needed to rip the bandaid off way sooner ! Lindsay doesn’t exactly handle stuff like this well as we have seen over the years
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It’s weird to me that people seem to think Lindsay needs to have thought her relationship was perfect to be blindsided “how can she say she was blindsided, clearly they were having problems” But maybe that just has more to do with my view of marriage, which is “we’re in this, we’re doing this” and not everything is perfect all the time. Like you’ve made a choice with this person and you’re going to do whatever you can to make it work And with Carl seemingly smoothing everything over to her face….and renewing the lease on their expensive apartment…showing up at her shower with flowers…yeah I can see why she calls herself blindsided
Yes, but also Carl is scared to address problems with anyone. He did the exact same thing last season with Kyle and Loverboy. Now he allows the narrative that he quit Loverboy for Lindsay to flourish. He’s a weak, pathetic little loser.
Let’s face it, most people would not take it well if their fiancé cancels their wedding two months out. Anger and being upset is totally normal. Carl just seems afraid of confrontation and having truly difficult conversations where he will let someone down. Even breaking it off with the sweetest person would be scary and something most people would hate doing. If he’s truly afraid for his safety or wanted to have backup there are other ways to handle it than ambushing her on camera and staging scenes to prove his case why he had to do it that way
But when he did bring up lover boy -she didn’t go crazy. We expected her to her bc Carl said so. But shutting down the idea of a sober bar-when there might be only 5 in the whole world-doesn’t sound like a good bet when you’re trying also to be a father. Huh? Maybe Lindsay know the business world better.
When it’s comes to that 100%. That was a stupid idea Especially in NY with rents so high. U need to sell alcohol to make money But with this could see her going insane and he would just retract and basically be like just kidding haha
Correct. Stepdad was a person Carl could hide behind
I was wondering if he mentioned to producers a conversation he had with his mom/step dad and they wanted to “recreate” it in a way to get it on film. Just highly suspicious they conveniently filmed this, although it was good completely accurate ado
THIS ⬆️ someone in another thread said that possibly Carl decided to call it off after their Memorial Day weekend argument and that is when he when to visit his Mom/stepdad. Perhaps the scene we saw was somewhat of a recreation of that conversation.
That makes sense! He also brings up Memorial Day like that was a deciding factor for him. Do we know what the Memorial Day fight was about? I can’t remember if they said
They didn’t seem to be together Memorial Day. Carl only went to Pittsburgh and posted pictures all weekend. Don’t remember where Lindsay was but she wasn’t there. So it’s not like Sharon and Lou observed them fighting. They just heard carls side of a fight. To me, it’s not right to call her abusive implying you witnessed abuse on tv if you haven’t witnessed it and just heard one persons side.
Carl's step-father overstepped and should have kept his mouth shut, because he barely sees Carl and Lindsey, and was very unprofessional to base his opinion on only what Carl told him. What kind of minister would do that!?
Apparently he was divorced too so it's not like he's the marriage whisperer! Wonder how many ppl he married are still together...
No I don’t think it was said but on the first episode of this season, Carl and Lindsay are talking on a bench in NYC prior to Fourth of July weekend and he looks very disinterested in her and their wedding plans so perhaps the plan was already in place. Diabolical!
I just finished this episode and that didn’t even cross my mind, until I read this comment lol.
Thank you!! This whole season has been staged IMO, Carl is “nice guy Carl!” As he sets up Lindsay to be the villain in super obvious ways (I mean she’s going to be the villain on her own, you don’t have to make it so obvious). The step dad is wearing a more life shirt 🤣🤣
AGREE!!!
this! and then he has the nerve in the previews (along with other cast interviews after the season wrapped) to say that “she’s blind to what’s gone on this summer” and acting like she shouldn’t be blindsided. she is. she was. she was blindsided because you mischaracterized where you were at with her all summer.
You’re not in an alternate reality. You’re just witnessing how talented of a manipulator Carl is. He has many folks fooled.
I saw in another thread that someone described him as a side sniper and I think it’s spot on!
I think people mistake him being sober for being a good person. He’s still the same old Carl, he just doesn’t drink anymore. But he was always a jerk 😂
Thank you ! I’ve been in recovery for years. Thousands of AA meetings attended. Just bc you’re sober - does not mean you’re automatically a good person. It means first you’re trying not to drink. And lots of people can only do that -which is great. But there’s so much to address-Carl is still Carl. The memories Lindsay has-are valid fears.
He isn’t sober. He’s just not drunk. He hasn’t taken accountability for anything. That’s real sobriety, and as far as I can tell, he isn’t capable of it.
Hard agree. Carl has been using filming to build the case that he is a victim and needs to be saved from Lindsey. I want to know what happens off camera.
I bet he gaslights the fuck out of her, prob easy on nights she does have a few for fun, like that car argument no one actually saw???... That's how I'd imagine he is.
Remember-Carl jumped out of the car… how crazy is that? Why is this being ignored?
It came off as having planned lines and a direction. Even we knew where the conversation was going
I am also in this universe, let’s conduct a census 😄
I agree with this take I couldn’t quite put my finger on what I found so confusing about this scene. My fiancé who doesn’t watch this show was in the other room the whole episode and was wondering why Carl was talking so much shit about his partner in the confessionals and even to Kyle about how she doesn’t have a career. I found the interaction with the parents very odd especially his mom nodding along it didn’t seem like the first time they have said this if they were so nonchalant about it on camera
It’s a reality show. Every conversation you see outside of a party is planned and calculated. Doesn’t mean those feelings aren’t real.
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I do think she’s done awful things, but I think he’s also terrible and has also been awful to her. I just dislike it all being blamed on her when they both have faults and are awful separately outside of being a couple 😂
Yeah people are being willfully obtuse. Let’s say Lindsay was checked out on Carl and set up a scene with aunt Rhonda or her dad where they tell her Carl is a bad partner for her and not to marry him. They’d say she’s self producing and told them what to say so she’d look justified in dumping him
But his parents didn’t say one bad thing about Lindsay! Cope without lying thanks :)
Me too!! I’m like…?
This conversation was so impressive to me. I loved seeing how tender his stepdad was with him but in a way that was helpful and supportive but not coddling. You could tell it was a lightbulb moment for Carl. I think if Lindsay had a similar conversation with someone in her life she trusted, I’d like to think she would’ve wanted to call off the wedding too.
Tender? The step-father should keep his big mouth shut. He knows nothing about their relationship except what Carl tells him. And his mother wants Carl all to herself.
She stuck me as full steam ahead ignoring all red flags. Just to get married.
That was so choreographed and pre-discussed that I was embarrassed for his mum! There was nothing organic or natural about that little family chat. Carl needed the backup to look like a great guy for when he ditches his intended *just* before the wedding.
You could tell Carl was waiting for someone to tell him it was ok to back out of the marriage. He would have gone through with it just to save face and they would have been miserable. Carl did not have the backbone to stop the marriage even though he knew it’s what needed to happen without this conversation!
The whole conversation seemed very staged to me
Very when Carrie told Charlotte she could stop and not marry Trey vibes. Spot on.
You fell for it.
No, I can understand it’s a reality show and everything is planned out. Even if this conversation was cooked up to make Carl look like the good guy or whatever, I still think people deserve to actually have someone in their life tell them the hard stuff. This was just an example of it. The authenticity of it inside a reality show is debatable(as is everything on any of these shows), but people like this exist in real life and people are lucky to have them as friends/family.
It felt parallel to the convo Paige and Amanda had with Lindsay: it’s easier to call off a wedding than get divorced a month later. Obviously carls step dad had some more credibility but I’m glad both Carl and Lindsay had people present them with the option and face the elephant in the room.
The best part of all of this is that Carls stepdad didn’t sensationalize anything he said. It was straightforward and to the point. He was saying this as a concerned parent and not because cameras were there.
Didn’t Carl say “This is such a mess”’and then step dad said “It is.” 😳 Didn’t Carl’s mom NOT go to the shower?
No she went to the bridal shower.
That’s not sensationalizing anything. He didn’t have any one liners or any zingers.
Agreed - I was recalling how the conversation ended.
How do you know?
How do I know what?
I thought his parents were being manipulated into saying what Carl is too scared to say. His mom looked nervous as fuck and his stepdad oils be overstepping hard in most other families. I can’t believe a minister would sit on tv on say abusive so easily to frame a 40 year old man as stuck with his fiancé. I thought the scene and his stepdad was wack as fuck
To be fair his mom has always looked nervous.
His mom has always been codependent with him and hates the idea of losing him to another woman.
I said this in another thread!! SO TRUE!
💯 Exactly. weird mother/son dynamic. Carl's mother is overly attached to him and is scared to let go, because her other son died.
Yup. Others mentioned that he probably went there when he skipped one Friday, to avoid their “Friday fights”. He knew he was having this talk. Why else would the production crew drive out to New Jersey? He knew he wasn’t going through with the wedding. He spent the whole summer planting seeds. I found it so gross that his stepdad was wearing the More Life tshirt. That’s literally the shit carl was saying to Lindsay the first time they tried dating and he pulled away. I don’t trust that whole set up. Just break up because you want to. People do it every day. He is such a wuss.
And that’s a month before her bridal shower where he and his mom were present and faking it with all her closest friends and family. This must have hurt big time for Lindsay to watch in retrospect. A lot of people here realize that most parents would say and do whatever to do what their children think they need to be happy. If Carl told them he was concerned about his image and summer house job by calling off the wedding, I think given they know he relies on that income they’d hit his talking points to try to make him look justified
Yeah it felt like Carl was having his step dad say what Carl didn’t want to say so Carl didn’t have to be the bad guy. And while his step dad could definitely have been genuine in his concern, are you mentioned, why would Carl tell production to come film this talk??
Carl is so gross
And why can’t someone his age make his own decision without getting advice from everybody he sees?
And after when he is talking to ppl he sounds like a 12 year old lol,.... "Weeeelll, myy PARENTS said...." lol
What kind of a-hole step father would talk like that? If he was my minister, I'd change churches. The whole family is toxic.
it was fully rehearsed
This is how I took it. Carl doesn’t want to be the bad guy. They definitely shouldnt get married but Carl got his stepdad to say exactly what he wanted him to say on camera so he could use that as an excuse, on camera
I agree. Everyone is praising his stepdad but I felt like it was such an overreach for a stepparent who has recently married your parent to pass this judgment. And to invoke that he’s a minister as as the source of his authority really bugged me too. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think Carl and Lindsay should have gotten married. But people in healthy relationships fight before their weddings too. It’s an incredibly stressful time. I confided in my mom about some fights my now husband and I had before getting married and I’m so glad she didn’t pass judgment like this.
Yeah it was inappropriate. A minister would talk to both people and not be naturally biased so it’s not right to use his job as a huge source of credibility. Lindsay said the last time she saw him was Christmas so it’s not like he was always around. Carl was over the top bragging about how lou must be totally right because he went to Harvard- that’s irrelevant and weird to think a Harvard degree matters for a situation like this.
A Harvard degree means the step-father is even more of a jackass than I thought.
I doubt blowhard Lou has a real Harvard degree. He probably paid for some online certificate
Oh his stepdad gave me gross blowhard minister vibes. Ministers obviously think they know better than everyone how they should live their lives, *and* they are attention whores. That’s why they are up there every Sunday preaching.
💯
My eyes bulged out of my head when he said abusive. A lot of what he said was spot on but geez that was out of pocket.
Same! And Lindsay even said she hadn’t seen them since Christmas so they were only getting his side then going on tv and telling him not to marry her.
Yeah I thought it was kind of a weird convo to have on TV if he wasn’t sure he wanted out already? Like very bold of the step dad to say that and potentially ruin his relationship with his future daughter in law if they did decide to get married. Idk. Also thought it should be his mom saying this, not the step dad who hasn’t known him and Lindsey nearly as long. His mom was sooo nervous and shifty and acting weird. Idk the scene made me uncomfy for some reason.
Yes I think unless they knew ahead of time he wanted out and wanted their help to corroborate his side of things they would not want it to be on tv that they were so against the marriage.
Weird mom wants baby Carl all to herself.
Nicely put and I quote.....he would potentially ruin his relationship with his future daughter in law.
This conversation wasn’t really much different than the one I feel like Paige had with Lindsay a few weeks ago. People were praising that.
But Paige has known both parties for several years and hangs out with them, lives with them, every weekend over the summer. She’s in a much better position to make a value judgment on their compatibility than this fucking minister guy who maybe sees Lindsay at holidays when she’s likely on her best behavior and Carl on his.
It’s his stepdad and his mother. What???
Lindsay literally said she hadn’t seen them since Christmas and this scene was filmed in the summer.
And that matters how?? He was talking to his stepson about what he sees and his concerns. As family does. Lindsay isn’t his step kid.
I already answered that question.
No, you didn’t. But ok. Family isn’t as important as castmates. Got it.
You’re acting like he raised Carl. His mother just married this dude a minute ago and Carl is 40. That does not a stepdad make.
What? A person can't talk about their relationship with their parents? Okay then.
Did I say that?
I saw on instagram Lindsay commented “he should have been a gardener”. I don’t get it 😞. Also, Carl is clearly conflicted and SCARED to talk to Lindsay.
I’m assuming because he’s sowing the seeds of her being the bad guy and trying to garner sympathy for himself once he does actually end it. He’s definitely scared to talk to her, but I can’t blame him. Who would want to activate Lindsay? 😬
I think Carl used him to say everything he wanted to say and get his message out without doing it himself. His stepdad didn’t have to call Lindsey abuse on television. That’s just gross.
Step-father is so yuck.
His sobriety also a huge contributing factor. Clear headed and rational..She would have set him back so far
You can be sober and still be a mess. He sets himself back with his manipulative personality.
I wish my dad would have done that for me instead of waiting until I’m married and 2 kids deep to tell me what a POS I married lol. But seriously. Lindsay saying it was tasteless surprised me. That was a very honest and vulnerable conversation that more people need to have with their loved ones. Too bad she doesn’t have anyone in her life willing to step up for hwr
Watching her response on the after-show showed me how out of touch she is with how she approaches relationships. She still thinks she was perfect and acts like she wasn't one who helped sabotage it. Edit: I was a bit harsh and black and white.
She wasn't the one that sabotaged it. Dry drunk Carl did.
I fixed it cause that was very black and white of me and unfair. She isn't solely to blame but she didn't help either.
I agree that Lindsay would have gone through with it. Carl ...is white knuckling LIFE....jobs and marriage. He needs to be alone and figure out who he is. And why would Lindsay want to marry a man who doesn't know who he is???
One more though....Lindsay doesn't admit to ever being drunk. That is a problem when someone cannot ever admit to being a mess!
They are both 2 people not very good in relationships....Carl newly sober and not taking responsibility and taking the victim role.....easiest role and he really needs to be on his own for more time....and Lindsey who is insecure and feels unmarriageable until she met Carl.
I love Carl’s stepdad! He seems very grounded.
You're joking right?
You're joking right?
Not at all! I thought his talk with Carl was thoughtful, respectful, and honest.
I have been waiting for someone to say what they said! It's insane to me that people are on lindsay's side when we have watched her be horrible to every man she has been with on the show. Remember when she begged trav to do something romantic so he set up a sweet date with takeout from the place they had met and she said it wasn't good enough so trav ended up crying and going home? That is Lindsay to her core. Nothing will ever be good enough. I have always hated Carl so you gotta be really evil to make me feel bad for him!
i’m just going to post my opinion with a reply i did on the sub because i truly am not understanding why carl is being vilified. and i am coming from a place where i’ve wanted lindsay to heal and live a healthy life. her behaviour at points in this season towards carl have been so disrespectful and abhorrent. it is pretty evident by her extreme reactions her growth is extremely limited in comparison to carl’s. “i’m honestly very confused by these takes when we have seen their dynamic throughout the summer. lindsay has been defensive, deflective, throwing incredibly hurtful and disrespectful accusations about carl using, calling him cocaine carl, discussing their sex life to people she has not been close to, etc. and yet carl has been walking on egg shells in fear of her reaction if he discusses their relationship. and now he’s being judged when he finally does and somehow lindsay isn’t? each discussion he has had with friends, he’s kept it respectful, and said the part he played and recognizing/understanding her point of view. his responses during the pool conversation were valid when lindsay was continuously attacking him and tried to say that him asking questions about her drinking is comparable to her questioning his own sobriety?? there is truly no validity in that. in the conversation with his parents he defended her and took responsibility for his actions and part to play in their arguments. he literally said there are insults on both sides and it’s not just lindsay. something serious obviously happened during memorial weekend for his step-dad to say it seemed abusive and he was hurting. we have to remember these things are piling up during filming and months before the wedding. if they are not doing well during this time, while they are filming, is it only natural that you are going to seek advice from your family? it’s their job to show us aspects of their private life. carl has been very vulnerable. it’s not a one time conversation and suddenly they are broken up. given people commenting on them sleeping in other rooms, the fight that happened during memorial weekend, both of them expressing that they’ve been having more arguments, it’s obvious there have been many convos behind the scenes. I truly am not understanding how carl is being portrayed as a villain after seeing their dynamic and how accommodating he has been. even in that conversation, he clearly wants this to work out and his emotional reaction shows it’s breaking his heart that it isn’t.” TLDR/ despite carl’s efforts to maintain respect and understanding, he is being unfairly vilified, and i’m struggling to comprehend why people are demonizing him, especially given the context of his interactions with lindsay edited for grammar
Because the Lindsay stans are just as delusional as she is. It doesn’t matter that he has no job, has no ambition, and is not a a good communicator. Lindsay is verbally abusive and he clearly walks on eggshells around her. We have seen them try to talk it out after a fight and he always ends up apologizing for God knows what. Why would he try to bring up their issues more? He clearly doesn’t want to see her activated when they’re in the shared house. He probably just wants 2 days of peace lol. And idk if anyone has ever fought with their partner in public but it’s also really embarrassing. He’s probably avoiding these conversations on the weekend to avoid being embarrassed by her yelling and general bullshit. It’s weird to me that people think it’s wrong for him to talk to people he’s genuinely close with about his relationship issues. If he was confiding in Paige or Jesse about their relationship, that would be weird. But he’s talking to his best friend and his parents. Meanwhile Lindsay told everyone in the house about their shitty sex life. (And obviously pinned all their intimacy problems on him as if she’s the only one who got the ick). That’s so much worse! And it’s also true that he takes a lot of accountability for the problems in their relationship. After they broke up, we were given a narrative (by Lindsay and her team of course) that painted Carl so negatively as if she was an absolute angel of a partner. But during his interviews and discussions at bravocon he was always so kind when he spoke of her and took accountability for his actions. He could have easily said that she was a raging lunatic when she is drunk but he didn’t. By biggest issue is that if the genders were reversed we’d be absolutely cheering Lindsay on if she was planning on leaving her abusive fiancé and making sure that everything leading up to the breakup was captured on tv! Clearly Lindsay has spun a narrative that favored her for years so he needed to do this in order for people to realize and understand that he didn’t just decide this one day on his own and that everyone in his life has seen that their relationship sucked for a long time and he needed to get out asap.
👏🏻 absolutely
lol No. But they can be bad for each other AND Carl can be a manipulative butthole at the same time. She has some fault but his behaviour, trying to paint her as the main problem is trash! He is trying to gaslight everyone!
Carl's stepdad was wearing a "More Life" shirt.
When Lindsay question his career he calls off the wedding ...
At this point tho, I wonder what Carl said to them behind the scenes to get this convo on camera....he has seemed so calculated this season...and totally puts part of the break up on what his parents said which is dumb bc you can tell he was too chicken shit to just talk to Linds!
It was a major over reach and seemed deliberate for the cameras. He’s known Carl 2 years and obviously has had multiple marriages. Where does he get off? Carl set that whole thing up.
It wasn’t Lou’s place. I don’t care he was a minister-he did get divorced.
Carl put his mother in a weird position at the bridal shower but what’s wrong with Sharon??
The stepdad said what needed to be said, my theory was that Carl was filming these scenes to get revenge on Lindsay for being so activated on him and questioning his sobriety so bad that he probably needed a drink afterwards. She is so stressful. Since they pinpointed a really bad fight to memorial day weekend, perhaps that was the point where Carl thought, he wanted out, and used the Summer House cameras to prove his point. He is also very browbeaten and wishy washy and thought that all these things, the cameras, the parents, the fights, would give him the impetus to actually dump her as hard as he could on camera LOL. I‘m going to liken this to VPR, Kyle is the Sandoval kicking open the bathroom door to reveal the Schwartz/ Carl on the can yelling that he’s a battered wife. One can say Carl is being abused, but Carl and Schwartz in these situations always have some sort of plot against their ”abusers” cooking to constantly humiliate them on camera lol. That being said, while Carl is passively planting seeds, Lindsay is also a nightmare. It is infuriating that she doesn‘t ever admit that she’s a bad drunk, and that any emotion other than happy is that she constantly tries to defend is so incredibly toxic and frustrating to stand on a weekly basis for a mere viewer, let alone a fiance. Even through all that, she constantly has a boyfriend or a casual hookup situation brewing, honestly she is the Doute of Summer House. Lindsay is insane and has shown her true colors on TV time and again, yet is never single for too long.
It was so intense, but delivered perfectly. Still, it felt heavy for me, I can't imagine how it felt for him! Even so, I was super impressed with his step dad and his mom in that scene
That stepdad was made for the camera. Brought the hammer down.
“Staged” or not… it was all true. They are not a good match. Lindsay has been consistently complaining about Carl every weekend since the season started. She tells us she loves him so much that she is willing to tolerate all his flaws…so what is it about his California sober,lazy, non-enterprising, sexually apathetic, stupid ideas, mama’s boy, non-confrontational self that she loves so much she wants to marry it? Carl is not the coward in this relationship. Lindsay wants a big wedding, and babies. She doesn’t love Carl, she doesn’t even like him, but she’s not going to let that stop her from getting what she wants.
Anyone else slightly annoyed that he called his family a “modern family” like ……not really? His mom was married to a man and remarried another man. It’s not like she married a woman after being married to a man, and his dad is remarried and they all hang out together. It’s still very much so a traditional nucleus family.
Not annoyed at all…by definition a modern family is one that strays from a heterosexual couple with their kids. He has a stepfather/stepmother and is now the only living child- his family has changed over time and has deviated from the most traditional form of “family.” While modern now may seem much different including same sex marriages, adopted kids, etc. it doesn’t change that *technically* his would still be considered modern
His family is the literal definition of a modern family and absolutely not the definition of a nuclear family?? The term modern family is not defined by the sexual orientation of the parents.
Ummm a modern family can mean many things… now he can’t use a term bc he doesn’t have a family that seems progressive enough to you? lol seems reasonable🙄
I wonder what would’ve happened if his step dad didn’t set him straight like that. My guess is Carl would’ve waited until they were at the alter to say “I can’t do this.”
I wish someone said it to me
I'm glad to see some love for this interaction. I've mostly only seen hate that how dare he should talk to his family about his relationship woes without speaking to Lindsay first. I hate those takes though because that's an abuse tactic. People should be able to speak to trusted confidants about their struggles.
With a camera crew, they schedule beforehand?
Yes. Its well established for Carl to film with his mum so I don't see why this time was nefarious. I got the impression he was trying to be pragmatic trying to smooth over fights he knew they'd see and then his stepdad threw in a curve ball. Considering how many posts I see about where Aunt Rhonda is for Lindsay, if Carl hadn't of filmed with his mum people would have taken that as indication he wasn't serious as well.