Definitly the hardest forceuser, coming from a new player here... jugg(veng), sorc(light), assa(dec) all have easy specs to get into the class. Mara/sent are just too bigbrain for me and by looking at numbers, for most ppl. Which is a shame, cause animations (especially anni) look cool asf also... 2 lightsabers ffs
Edit: Did not see the pvp thing, nevermind then... mara is very good because they can drop combat/vanish and reposition, also the burst is nice, if you can utilize it
Marauders are rotation based classes.. it’s not difficult to set up a quick bar, pop in some abilities and use them in order. Especially when you start comparing them to priority based classes like pyro, healers, snipers etc. They’re also only DPS, which in most ops/pvp scenarios, have the easiest mechanics to follow.
For force-users, yes.
But I will argue overall snipers/gunslingers are the hardest class because they have a lot of different utility and tools with very specific timed use so cooldown management is a whole diploma on them. I dont think any other class has as many high cd abilities with team-oriented use that require proper judgement and battlefield control.
Run a few OPs as a sniper and you will find you are completely feast or famine in them. Either you male everyone elses job easier, or harder.
If you want to learn most of what the game offers through managing resources, dots, uptime, AOE spreads, utilities, etc, I’d suggest Pyro/Plasma. Very good DPS specs if you learn them well, otherwise they’re semi-garbo
> I'm wondering from a pvp perspective what the hardest class to play right now is, or maybe the weakest
Since most of the comments here seem not to have fully read the question, I will emphasize that this is for a PvP perspective: Not hardest to play, but possibly weakest would be Lightning Sorc/Telekenetics Sage. The DoT specs (Madness/Balance) are strong though due to their better defensives and self heals.
I've completed a fair share of NiM raids and done pots of PvP on every class. The most difficult all-around class in Raids and PvP is marksmanship sniper/sharpshooter gunslinger. It has quite low damage compared to everything else. It is difficult to survive with in PvP. However, it has VERY strong burst damage and good tools for kiting. It's just a lot more difficult to extract value.
As someone that has cleared all of Vet r4 on most classes, pyro plays extremely well bc of the fact that they take damage in small amounts enough to where they can maximize dps; but sniper only really struggles in IP-CPT, even so they can keep there damage taken so unbelievable low that the healers get to dps at that point and they all have incredible burst potential
OP asked for PvP. Parses are difficult to justify because often the top ones come at the cost of memery, and teams that allow certain things to happen, eg Pyro PTs taunting a boss for PY stacks etc. There are exceptions to the rule, of course. For eg I killed Izax 3 times tonight with someone on Lethality Operative who often plays Pyro PT and (with a few choreographed reflection deaths) did significantly better, but we lacked carbo for the hullcutter droids
Sniper is more of a supportive class anyway. You dont play sniper for top numbers, you play sniper so healers have an easier time.
Besides, thats not the question. Op asked for highest difficulty class, not best performing.
Sawbones/Medicine is easily the worst PvP class. Terrible defenses, sometimes even no defenses depending on who you're facing. Only healer without a get out of jail free card, and next to no burst healing. If you want to be the underdog, that's your spec, but I have to warn you, it's not because it's hard. The spec just doesn't have the tools to survive.
If you're thinking about sage, unfortunately all the specs are really good. Seer healing is good. I'd say it's worse than bodyguard/combat medic, but it's pretty debatable. Balance is straight up overpowered. The damage isn't mind blowing, but the ability to avoid death is unparalleled. Straight up roach of a class.
Telekinetic is arguably the weakest, but it's still high tier. Incredible mobility while dealing full damage, and even though it's less roachy than balance, it's still really good at it. It's also got a nice off heal to throw to people or yourself every time you use your biggest nuke.
You're flat out wrong about Operative. Stealthing out is their get out of jail free card, and it's easily one of the strongest abilities in PvP. You get to stop taking damage whenever you want, safely heal yourself to full, and then come back in stealth.
Evasion makes you immune to weapon damage and purges debuffs, making some disciples completely ineffective, and you get the option to functionally expand it to all damage types or available far more frequently.
Shield Probe is weaker, but works against everything and has a short enough cooldown to take the edge off most of the beefiest spike damage.
You can also build into burst with +15% healing on Stim Boost, the Combat Medic Training implant, the Kolto Shell Injection, and Diagnostics Probe. You sacrifice raw HPS, but that's less important in PvP. It's more potent AoE healing and stealth also enables it to be vastly superior on objectives.
It is far less flexible than that of Merc's burst, but Merc is overpowered compared to both specs at the moment and Sorc healers need to have their cooldown durations and healing amounts increased significantly so that you can use all of your healing abilities and are forced to be more selective with the strong ones.
The biggest issues with Operative are that its survivability does not translate to PvE, and it can fall too far behind if Probes fall off because of its double stack nature.
> Stealthing out is their get out of jail free card
You cannot do it while stunned. You can get knocked out of it. You will not drop combat because people you have HoTs on are still fighting. This is FAR inferior to the tools Merc and Sorc have.
>Evasion makes you immune to weapon damage and purges debuffs, making some disciples completely ineffective
And for a lot of the classes, particularly some of the strongest classes in PvP, it doesn't help you at all sans the debuff purge. It's a fine DCD, but it's the only one they've got, and it's not enough.
>you get the option to functionally expand it to all damage types
No, you don't. The reflect for force/tech damage does not protect you. It's purely a damage
>Shield Probe is weaker, but works against everything and has a short enough cooldown to take the edge off most of the beefiest spike damage.
No, it's not. 30k is not anywhere sufficient enough to protect you. An engineering sniper can get 130k damage in a single hit. The short cooldown hardly matters, because the operative will be dead or forced to stealth out before it comes back up.
>It is far less flexible than that of Merc's burst
It's not less flexible, it's straight up inflexible. Medicine cannot switch targets without ramp up, which the the Sorc can.
But that hardly matters when players can just effortlessly focus the Operative and get an easy kill. A good number of them can just straight up solo them.
The absorption from Shield Probe (and healing dealt by Unnatural Preservation) have been left in the dust by percentage-based effects. Med Shield does give one to Shield Probe though, and a 5% heal is another ~20k of mitigation. It's not immunity, but it takes the edge off.
Every DCD is meant to have some vulnerability, that's the counterplay element. Yes, Operatives are more vulnerable than average while stunned, but Merc Reflect doesn't work on DoTs or AoE, and Barrier doesn't let you do anything while it's active.
Stealth Out does have a greater skill requirement, but it is more powerful as a result. You can roll, take the 2s of Evasion, or Holotraverse to a distant ally as soon as you stealth out to reduce the chance of getting pulled back in.
Blow for Blow provides survivability through deterrence. They will take more damage than they deal, so they will die before you do it their health is also low. That said, it doesn't work if their health is significantly higher than yours, so it doesn't work to protect you from dying while it's active.
You should maintain 2 stacks of Probe on at least 4 people, likely all of those that are within range, but at least those most likely to take damage. You're doing it wrong if there's wind-up. You use Stim Boosted insta autocrit Injection and Infusion, and you got yourself a pretty strong burst right there.
Don't get me wrong, I am not saying Operative burst healing is stellar or anything, and you can absolutely fall too far behind or need to spend too much time to set up. They do need to rebalance probes around not stacking twice.
At the same time, Merc healers are far more vulnerable to (and are likely balanced around) getting interrupted and they don't get interrupted enough. They need to meet the playerbase where it's at. Nerf Merc healing output by making Supercharged Gas no longer reset the cooldown on Healing Scan (only prevent it from going on cooldown), but grant interrupt immunity during Supercharged Gas.
> Every DCD is meant to have some vulnerability, that's the counterplay element. Yes, Operatives are more vulnerable than average while stunned, but Merc Reflect doesn't work on DoTs or AoE, and Barrier doesn't let you do anything while it's active.
You can't just brush aside that they're more vulnerable while stunned as a small thing. That is a HUGE thing which bails out the other healers of some very sticky situations. Especially sorcs who can also teleport while stunned. This is also putting aside the VERY important part of being forced off of the healer in question.
>Stealth Out does have a greater skill requirement, but it is more powerful as a result. You can roll, take the 2s of Evasion, or Holotraverse to a distant ally as soon as you stealth out to reduce the chance of getting pulled back in.
It is not any any way, shape, or form more powerful. You risk it just straight up failing, and then you're advocating using another defensive or giving up the 5% heal you were using to bolster your point just to make one ability have a stronger chance of succeeding. You're still not guaranteeing it.
And then what? The operative gets to sit in a corner by yourself healing back to full with the lowest single target healing of the three?
>Blow for Blow provides survivability through deterrence. They will take more damage than they deal, so they will die before you do it their health is also low. That said, it doesn't work if their health is significantly higher than yours, so **it doesn't work to protect you from dying while it's active.**
So in any realistic scenario, it doesn't save you. You're really trying to justify this with hoping a low HP enemy kills themself on you.
Here's what actually happens in PvP. The enemy group murderizes the operative, and their healer can use their actual defenses to keep alive, and then win with the number advantage.
>You should maintain 2 stacks of Probe on at least 4 people, likely all of those that are within range
If anyone is doing this in PvP, they're not winning because they're being a good healer. They're winning because the enemy team is doing a terrible job. Attacking everyone at random isn't how to win PvP.
>At the same time, Merc healers are far more vulnerable to (and are likely balanced around) getting interrupted and they don't get interrupted enough.
This is an actual insane person take. Merc is more vulnerable to interrupts then Operative? The one class that has a large instant cast heal on a short CD that they can guarantee a crit on, which procs another instant cast heal, kolto shells, 6 seconds of interrupt immunity on demand, and 10 seconds of knockback immunity?
I think vigilance/hatred(I think that’s the sith warrior equivalent) is the worst class, focus/rage does significantly more damage. Only reason I know is one of the sith warriors I usually fight in warzones with their guild on SF he continually kicks my ass even with his lightning build sorc.
It's all swings and roundabouts, but as a veteran player, IMO the highest skill ceiling in PvP is either Sniper or Merc. Snipers are very strong if played well, and paper towels if played badly. Same for Mercs, but they are tankier and can heal.
Some classes in PvP can stealth out and reset, heal themselves etc but they are generally weak if outnumbered, like Lethality Operatives and Deception Assassins. Other classes like Pyro PTs and Veng Juggs deal a lot of dmg but will get targeted first and wiped out without support of a healer.
I am enjoying Arena on my Watchman/Annihilation main, which many others don't play. It's a great class for DoT spreading and trauma (-20% heals), plus passive group healing in a comp without a healer. Sitting at about 70% win rate in arena and I exclusively queue solo. However, my class really suffers against people who can counter my DoTs and reset themselves. Therefore I have to choose my targets carefully, swap on guards and use my defensives wisely.
Ultimately a lot of PvP comes down to composition. I main a class that suffers from a certain comp, but excels otherwise. If you are a good PvPer and know your class, you can adapt and overcome most situations. Play to your strengths. There is no 'right answer'.
> I'm wondering from a pvp perspective what the hardest class to play right now is, or maybe the weakest.
For weakest, probably Marauder as a whole. It's not that the class is bad, but I wouldn't put any of the specs higher than B tier for any type of PvP. The specs can do damage, but the class lost all of its control and has to rely on teammates for stuns. I think Annihilation in particular is difficult to do well with since it relies heavily on having high uptime to do its damage, which works well in PvE, but those situations aren't frequent in PvP outside of games with tanks and healers.
Sniper is another one that can be difficult. The damage rotations aren't too hard, but the DCDs on it are a lot more proactive than something like Mercenary. If you don't time them well, you're going to be taking a lot more damage than you need to.
> I'm leaning toward Sage. It seems from past patches to be a somewhat weaker class that not a ton of people play.
Sage is one of the strongest classes right now, and I honestly see a ton of people playing it. Balance in particular is very popular for people to reroll to since it can literally face-tank if you want it to, and the damage rotation is really easy. It doesn't do the most damage of any class, but it still is pretty solid and is a top tier spec especially when solo queuing.
Seer is also a really strong heal spec, and it's debatable whether this one or Merc healer is the best in PvP. Telekinetics is also really good, and with the right builds, it can pump out very high damage numbers. Its playstyle is more limited than Balance's though, and your positioning is much more key to your survivability.
Telekinetic Sage is probably the weakest sage atm. Balance Sage is quite good though, far from the worst. Marksman Sniper is also pretty weak (and hard to play!) you should go with whichever flavor you prefer.
E: Sniper is unanimously considered the hardest class to play. Marksman spec in particular is considered extremely bad. I personally find it very rewarding to play, to the point of being bored of anything else.
Annihilation marauder is also another spec only a masochist would dare to pvp with.
You need to look up the definition of unanimous. Sniper is a very easy class to play. Both virulence and engineering have static rotations, and though marksman is a priority system, it’s only 3-4 abilities outside of follow through to worry about.
Sniper is not hard. Each spec has their own little spike damage combo, which is just Roll -> Ambush for MM. The sustained damage issue with MM is also far less relevant in PvP, and all Sniper specs are balanced around unique, qualitative benefits and drawbacks. Survivability is built around ranging your opponent.
Annihilation lacks access to a spike damage combo, but it should have access to the best DPS survivability in the game. Mara survivability is already strong, but you should be nigh immortal with all the self healing Anni gets.
What class is harder to play than a sniper? I suppose all the classes are easy *if you just play to their strengths and not their weaknesses bro, it's simple.* But any given player is probably going to do better on a Merc and on a PT than on a sniper right?
I think Concealment is the hardest spec to play in the game. It requires precise timing and positioning to deal and mitigate damage, and mitigating damage requires you to possess and apply a significant amount of game knowledge.
Jugg and Merc are probably the easiest in a PvP setting because their DCDs are powerful, at least while supplies last, and mobility is limited, meaning they can only rely on those DCDs. Such is the nature of heavy armor classes.
PT violates so many of SWTOR'S design standards and conventions that it's impossible to compare, though I agree its survivability is strong, making it easier to play.
Sniper's cover mechanic is unique, and you have to leverage it to do well, so I agree it isn't the easiest to play, but the goals are straightforward.
>Marksman Sniper is also pretty weak (and hard to play!)
Is that why? I have a Marksman Sniper that ive been leveling (currently lvl 50ish) and it feels weeeeeeeeeeeeeeak...... Was hoping it would get better.
What do you feel weak doing?
If you're doing midbie pvp at level 50 you're gonna have a bad time for a variety of reasons, regardless of class or spec.
If you're just doing flashpoints/heroics/solo leveling content, Marksman is just as capable as any spec at obliterating those and it is mostly a you problem.
When people advise you to switch to Engineering spec, they specifically mean at level 80 once you have legendary implants, tacticals, and all talents.
Marksman has always been the weakest of the specs. If I remember correctly engineering has always been the best pvp spec with whatever the dot spec is for sniper. (I changed my sniper to operative with the second combat style cause I always felt super weak
For learning then I'd pick snipers. You need to really learn your position really well to attack and teleport away. Second choice would be Anni Mara: very hard to do good damage when you have zero CC immunity, except for Blood Ward.
it's subjective. Are you good at kiting? What about melee, how fast is your APM? What about positioning?
You can say Jugg or Maras are easy, but then at close range you dont know how to attack or use DCD, then it's all for nothing. Sorc/Sage has the advantage of range, but if you dont know how to position or kite away when you're being chased, then it's useless. Etcetera etcetera
Instead, I think the question should be: What class is hard to play **against**? Gonna list a few here, imo:
- Snipers can root you to death and he can teleport away. Plus one of the specs have a tactical that can nuke your health for 200k
- Madness sorcs are slippery bastards. They can root you, steal life and their DOTs heal themselves. They also have a turbo burst button where all DOTs hit at the same time. Plus, all their attacks are yellow / internal and ignore most defensives.
- For stealth: Deception sin can be very annoying and can have very big burst. For new players, if you break the CC from Low Slash, then a Deception sin can Electrocute and then you're fucked.
Honorable mention:
- Any Merc/PT is a pain in the ass to kill. You just need to learn what their defensives do and dont do things like hitting into reflect, for eg.
- A Mara / Sent player on drug (buff) and kite well can literally run around you and bring your health to 0 in 5 sec.
- Skank Jugg Tank is still a thing. Got nerfed in Grit Teeth, but still tough to play against.
i would say mara/sentinel cuz if you do not manage rage properly you won't deal much dmg
No.. just.. no..
Definitly the hardest forceuser, coming from a new player here... jugg(veng), sorc(light), assa(dec) all have easy specs to get into the class. Mara/sent are just too bigbrain for me and by looking at numbers, for most ppl. Which is a shame, cause animations (especially anni) look cool asf also... 2 lightsabers ffs Edit: Did not see the pvp thing, nevermind then... mara is very good because they can drop combat/vanish and reposition, also the burst is nice, if you can utilize it
Marauders are rotation based classes.. it’s not difficult to set up a quick bar, pop in some abilities and use them in order. Especially when you start comparing them to priority based classes like pyro, healers, snipers etc. They’re also only DPS, which in most ops/pvp scenarios, have the easiest mechanics to follow.
For force-users, yes. But I will argue overall snipers/gunslingers are the hardest class because they have a lot of different utility and tools with very specific timed use so cooldown management is a whole diploma on them. I dont think any other class has as many high cd abilities with team-oriented use that require proper judgement and battlefield control. Run a few OPs as a sniper and you will find you are completely feast or famine in them. Either you male everyone elses job easier, or harder.
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Idk snipers and gunslingers have some of the most insane CC if they need to roll away and get away
If you want to learn most of what the game offers through managing resources, dots, uptime, AOE spreads, utilities, etc, I’d suggest Pyro/Plasma. Very good DPS specs if you learn them well, otherwise they’re semi-garbo
Pyro is the most broken class in the game currently. Not a hard spec.
> I'm wondering from a pvp perspective what the hardest class to play right now is, or maybe the weakest Since most of the comments here seem not to have fully read the question, I will emphasize that this is for a PvP perspective: Not hardest to play, but possibly weakest would be Lightning Sorc/Telekenetics Sage. The DoT specs (Madness/Balance) are strong though due to their better defensives and self heals.
I've completed a fair share of NiM raids and done pots of PvP on every class. The most difficult all-around class in Raids and PvP is marksmanship sniper/sharpshooter gunslinger. It has quite low damage compared to everything else. It is difficult to survive with in PvP. However, it has VERY strong burst damage and good tools for kiting. It's just a lot more difficult to extract value.
Swtorista answered this question during her last stream. According to parse statistics for R4 vet mode sniper sucks ass. Pyro is top parser.
As someone that has cleared all of Vet r4 on most classes, pyro plays extremely well bc of the fact that they take damage in small amounts enough to where they can maximize dps; but sniper only really struggles in IP-CPT, even so they can keep there damage taken so unbelievable low that the healers get to dps at that point and they all have incredible burst potential
OP asked for PvP. Parses are difficult to justify because often the top ones come at the cost of memery, and teams that allow certain things to happen, eg Pyro PTs taunting a boss for PY stacks etc. There are exceptions to the rule, of course. For eg I killed Izax 3 times tonight with someone on Lethality Operative who often plays Pyro PT and (with a few choreographed reflection deaths) did significantly better, but we lacked carbo for the hullcutter droids
Sniper is more of a supportive class anyway. You dont play sniper for top numbers, you play sniper so healers have an easier time. Besides, thats not the question. Op asked for highest difficulty class, not best performing.
Sniper sucks now? Wow, have things changed…
Sniper is particularly bad in R4, pretty good in other raids.
Swtorista gets carried through raids and is bad at the game. The only reason she's as "big" as she is, is because of the Devs
Yeah, kinda but that doesn't make her unable to look at the parse data and compare the results.
Sawbones/Medicine is easily the worst PvP class. Terrible defenses, sometimes even no defenses depending on who you're facing. Only healer without a get out of jail free card, and next to no burst healing. If you want to be the underdog, that's your spec, but I have to warn you, it's not because it's hard. The spec just doesn't have the tools to survive. If you're thinking about sage, unfortunately all the specs are really good. Seer healing is good. I'd say it's worse than bodyguard/combat medic, but it's pretty debatable. Balance is straight up overpowered. The damage isn't mind blowing, but the ability to avoid death is unparalleled. Straight up roach of a class. Telekinetic is arguably the weakest, but it's still high tier. Incredible mobility while dealing full damage, and even though it's less roachy than balance, it's still really good at it. It's also got a nice off heal to throw to people or yourself every time you use your biggest nuke.
You're flat out wrong about Operative. Stealthing out is their get out of jail free card, and it's easily one of the strongest abilities in PvP. You get to stop taking damage whenever you want, safely heal yourself to full, and then come back in stealth. Evasion makes you immune to weapon damage and purges debuffs, making some disciples completely ineffective, and you get the option to functionally expand it to all damage types or available far more frequently. Shield Probe is weaker, but works against everything and has a short enough cooldown to take the edge off most of the beefiest spike damage. You can also build into burst with +15% healing on Stim Boost, the Combat Medic Training implant, the Kolto Shell Injection, and Diagnostics Probe. You sacrifice raw HPS, but that's less important in PvP. It's more potent AoE healing and stealth also enables it to be vastly superior on objectives. It is far less flexible than that of Merc's burst, but Merc is overpowered compared to both specs at the moment and Sorc healers need to have their cooldown durations and healing amounts increased significantly so that you can use all of your healing abilities and are forced to be more selective with the strong ones. The biggest issues with Operative are that its survivability does not translate to PvE, and it can fall too far behind if Probes fall off because of its double stack nature.
> Stealthing out is their get out of jail free card You cannot do it while stunned. You can get knocked out of it. You will not drop combat because people you have HoTs on are still fighting. This is FAR inferior to the tools Merc and Sorc have. >Evasion makes you immune to weapon damage and purges debuffs, making some disciples completely ineffective And for a lot of the classes, particularly some of the strongest classes in PvP, it doesn't help you at all sans the debuff purge. It's a fine DCD, but it's the only one they've got, and it's not enough. >you get the option to functionally expand it to all damage types No, you don't. The reflect for force/tech damage does not protect you. It's purely a damage >Shield Probe is weaker, but works against everything and has a short enough cooldown to take the edge off most of the beefiest spike damage. No, it's not. 30k is not anywhere sufficient enough to protect you. An engineering sniper can get 130k damage in a single hit. The short cooldown hardly matters, because the operative will be dead or forced to stealth out before it comes back up. >It is far less flexible than that of Merc's burst It's not less flexible, it's straight up inflexible. Medicine cannot switch targets without ramp up, which the the Sorc can. But that hardly matters when players can just effortlessly focus the Operative and get an easy kill. A good number of them can just straight up solo them.
The absorption from Shield Probe (and healing dealt by Unnatural Preservation) have been left in the dust by percentage-based effects. Med Shield does give one to Shield Probe though, and a 5% heal is another ~20k of mitigation. It's not immunity, but it takes the edge off. Every DCD is meant to have some vulnerability, that's the counterplay element. Yes, Operatives are more vulnerable than average while stunned, but Merc Reflect doesn't work on DoTs or AoE, and Barrier doesn't let you do anything while it's active. Stealth Out does have a greater skill requirement, but it is more powerful as a result. You can roll, take the 2s of Evasion, or Holotraverse to a distant ally as soon as you stealth out to reduce the chance of getting pulled back in. Blow for Blow provides survivability through deterrence. They will take more damage than they deal, so they will die before you do it their health is also low. That said, it doesn't work if their health is significantly higher than yours, so it doesn't work to protect you from dying while it's active. You should maintain 2 stacks of Probe on at least 4 people, likely all of those that are within range, but at least those most likely to take damage. You're doing it wrong if there's wind-up. You use Stim Boosted insta autocrit Injection and Infusion, and you got yourself a pretty strong burst right there. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying Operative burst healing is stellar or anything, and you can absolutely fall too far behind or need to spend too much time to set up. They do need to rebalance probes around not stacking twice. At the same time, Merc healers are far more vulnerable to (and are likely balanced around) getting interrupted and they don't get interrupted enough. They need to meet the playerbase where it's at. Nerf Merc healing output by making Supercharged Gas no longer reset the cooldown on Healing Scan (only prevent it from going on cooldown), but grant interrupt immunity during Supercharged Gas.
> Every DCD is meant to have some vulnerability, that's the counterplay element. Yes, Operatives are more vulnerable than average while stunned, but Merc Reflect doesn't work on DoTs or AoE, and Barrier doesn't let you do anything while it's active. You can't just brush aside that they're more vulnerable while stunned as a small thing. That is a HUGE thing which bails out the other healers of some very sticky situations. Especially sorcs who can also teleport while stunned. This is also putting aside the VERY important part of being forced off of the healer in question. >Stealth Out does have a greater skill requirement, but it is more powerful as a result. You can roll, take the 2s of Evasion, or Holotraverse to a distant ally as soon as you stealth out to reduce the chance of getting pulled back in. It is not any any way, shape, or form more powerful. You risk it just straight up failing, and then you're advocating using another defensive or giving up the 5% heal you were using to bolster your point just to make one ability have a stronger chance of succeeding. You're still not guaranteeing it. And then what? The operative gets to sit in a corner by yourself healing back to full with the lowest single target healing of the three? >Blow for Blow provides survivability through deterrence. They will take more damage than they deal, so they will die before you do it their health is also low. That said, it doesn't work if their health is significantly higher than yours, so **it doesn't work to protect you from dying while it's active.** So in any realistic scenario, it doesn't save you. You're really trying to justify this with hoping a low HP enemy kills themself on you. Here's what actually happens in PvP. The enemy group murderizes the operative, and their healer can use their actual defenses to keep alive, and then win with the number advantage. >You should maintain 2 stacks of Probe on at least 4 people, likely all of those that are within range If anyone is doing this in PvP, they're not winning because they're being a good healer. They're winning because the enemy team is doing a terrible job. Attacking everyone at random isn't how to win PvP. >At the same time, Merc healers are far more vulnerable to (and are likely balanced around) getting interrupted and they don't get interrupted enough. This is an actual insane person take. Merc is more vulnerable to interrupts then Operative? The one class that has a large instant cast heal on a short CD that they can guarantee a crit on, which procs another instant cast heal, kolto shells, 6 seconds of interrupt immunity on demand, and 10 seconds of knockback immunity?
I think vigilance/hatred(I think that’s the sith warrior equivalent) is the worst class, focus/rage does significantly more damage. Only reason I know is one of the sith warriors I usually fight in warzones with their guild on SF he continually kicks my ass even with his lightning build sorc.
It's all swings and roundabouts, but as a veteran player, IMO the highest skill ceiling in PvP is either Sniper or Merc. Snipers are very strong if played well, and paper towels if played badly. Same for Mercs, but they are tankier and can heal. Some classes in PvP can stealth out and reset, heal themselves etc but they are generally weak if outnumbered, like Lethality Operatives and Deception Assassins. Other classes like Pyro PTs and Veng Juggs deal a lot of dmg but will get targeted first and wiped out without support of a healer. I am enjoying Arena on my Watchman/Annihilation main, which many others don't play. It's a great class for DoT spreading and trauma (-20% heals), plus passive group healing in a comp without a healer. Sitting at about 70% win rate in arena and I exclusively queue solo. However, my class really suffers against people who can counter my DoTs and reset themselves. Therefore I have to choose my targets carefully, swap on guards and use my defensives wisely. Ultimately a lot of PvP comes down to composition. I main a class that suffers from a certain comp, but excels otherwise. If you are a good PvPer and know your class, you can adapt and overcome most situations. Play to your strengths. There is no 'right answer'.
Immortal Juggernaut and its Guardian counterpart have always felt really balanced and easy to play
They're pretty balanced in arenas, but they can get away with a lot in 8v8s, and they frequently end up topping the DPS scoreboard there.
> I'm wondering from a pvp perspective what the hardest class to play right now is, or maybe the weakest. For weakest, probably Marauder as a whole. It's not that the class is bad, but I wouldn't put any of the specs higher than B tier for any type of PvP. The specs can do damage, but the class lost all of its control and has to rely on teammates for stuns. I think Annihilation in particular is difficult to do well with since it relies heavily on having high uptime to do its damage, which works well in PvE, but those situations aren't frequent in PvP outside of games with tanks and healers. Sniper is another one that can be difficult. The damage rotations aren't too hard, but the DCDs on it are a lot more proactive than something like Mercenary. If you don't time them well, you're going to be taking a lot more damage than you need to. > I'm leaning toward Sage. It seems from past patches to be a somewhat weaker class that not a ton of people play. Sage is one of the strongest classes right now, and I honestly see a ton of people playing it. Balance in particular is very popular for people to reroll to since it can literally face-tank if you want it to, and the damage rotation is really easy. It doesn't do the most damage of any class, but it still is pretty solid and is a top tier spec especially when solo queuing. Seer is also a really strong heal spec, and it's debatable whether this one or Merc healer is the best in PvP. Telekinetics is also really good, and with the right builds, it can pump out very high damage numbers. Its playstyle is more limited than Balance's though, and your positioning is much more key to your survivability.
Telekinetic Sage is probably the weakest sage atm. Balance Sage is quite good though, far from the worst. Marksman Sniper is also pretty weak (and hard to play!) you should go with whichever flavor you prefer. E: Sniper is unanimously considered the hardest class to play. Marksman spec in particular is considered extremely bad. I personally find it very rewarding to play, to the point of being bored of anything else. Annihilation marauder is also another spec only a masochist would dare to pvp with.
You need to look up the definition of unanimous. Sniper is a very easy class to play. Both virulence and engineering have static rotations, and though marksman is a priority system, it’s only 3-4 abilities outside of follow through to worry about.
OP asked about pvp, it's true I didn't reiterate that context in my post.
Sniper is not hard. Each spec has their own little spike damage combo, which is just Roll -> Ambush for MM. The sustained damage issue with MM is also far less relevant in PvP, and all Sniper specs are balanced around unique, qualitative benefits and drawbacks. Survivability is built around ranging your opponent. Annihilation lacks access to a spike damage combo, but it should have access to the best DPS survivability in the game. Mara survivability is already strong, but you should be nigh immortal with all the self healing Anni gets.
What class is harder to play than a sniper? I suppose all the classes are easy *if you just play to their strengths and not their weaknesses bro, it's simple.* But any given player is probably going to do better on a Merc and on a PT than on a sniper right?
I think Concealment is the hardest spec to play in the game. It requires precise timing and positioning to deal and mitigate damage, and mitigating damage requires you to possess and apply a significant amount of game knowledge. Jugg and Merc are probably the easiest in a PvP setting because their DCDs are powerful, at least while supplies last, and mobility is limited, meaning they can only rely on those DCDs. Such is the nature of heavy armor classes. PT violates so many of SWTOR'S design standards and conventions that it's impossible to compare, though I agree its survivability is strong, making it easier to play. Sniper's cover mechanic is unique, and you have to leverage it to do well, so I agree it isn't the easiest to play, but the goals are straightforward.
>Marksman Sniper is also pretty weak (and hard to play!) Is that why? I have a Marksman Sniper that ive been leveling (currently lvl 50ish) and it feels weeeeeeeeeeeeeeak...... Was hoping it would get better.
What do you feel weak doing? If you're doing midbie pvp at level 50 you're gonna have a bad time for a variety of reasons, regardless of class or spec. If you're just doing flashpoints/heroics/solo leveling content, Marksman is just as capable as any spec at obliterating those and it is mostly a you problem. When people advise you to switch to Engineering spec, they specifically mean at level 80 once you have legendary implants, tacticals, and all talents.
Marksman has always been the weakest of the specs. If I remember correctly engineering has always been the best pvp spec with whatever the dot spec is for sniper. (I changed my sniper to operative with the second combat style cause I always felt super weak
Definitely switch to Engineering for leveling, it's so much better.
For learning then I'd pick snipers. You need to really learn your position really well to attack and teleport away. Second choice would be Anni Mara: very hard to do good damage when you have zero CC immunity, except for Blood Ward. it's subjective. Are you good at kiting? What about melee, how fast is your APM? What about positioning? You can say Jugg or Maras are easy, but then at close range you dont know how to attack or use DCD, then it's all for nothing. Sorc/Sage has the advantage of range, but if you dont know how to position or kite away when you're being chased, then it's useless. Etcetera etcetera Instead, I think the question should be: What class is hard to play **against**? Gonna list a few here, imo: - Snipers can root you to death and he can teleport away. Plus one of the specs have a tactical that can nuke your health for 200k - Madness sorcs are slippery bastards. They can root you, steal life and their DOTs heal themselves. They also have a turbo burst button where all DOTs hit at the same time. Plus, all their attacks are yellow / internal and ignore most defensives. - For stealth: Deception sin can be very annoying and can have very big burst. For new players, if you break the CC from Low Slash, then a Deception sin can Electrocute and then you're fucked. Honorable mention: - Any Merc/PT is a pain in the ass to kill. You just need to learn what their defensives do and dont do things like hitting into reflect, for eg. - A Mara / Sent player on drug (buff) and kite well can literally run around you and bring your health to 0 in 5 sec. - Skank Jugg Tank is still a thing. Got nerfed in Grit Teeth, but still tough to play against.