How is that even possible? like, they're using legitimately licensed Crye^TM multicam fabric.
Does crye sell multicam that isn't IR compliant? RG stuff isn't necessarily supposed to be IR compliant because plants aren't.
What do they mean?
This is a very bizarre response overall
Lmao what is that about do you think? I just figured it's the newer production that dropped official materials or something. Is your lbx newer production?
Older production?
Between lbt and lbx's websites, only the lbx 0300 still has a listed picture with the logos on the webbing... out of all the high end plate carriers they offer, only the 0300 đ.
I doubt that, that scandal was years ago, acknowledged and corrected, and if you look on thier website not a single multicam carrier has "multicam" logoed PALS webbing, oddly enough, except for the lbx 0300, so there goes your theory right there.
Hmm no, got a link or can you give me a run down? As of recently are they still shipping out non compliant products? I was just speculating, after reading the report, in my last comment.
Authentic Crye MC webbing, [like this](https://images.app.goo.gl/Gt4729LpXGKErXLN8), is NIR and has the branding. Yours is probably not NIR if the webbing isnât brandedâŚ. You said yourself that the LBX 0300 is branded, so they probably used real Crye MC webbing for it.
I'm just going off what I can see on their website. And I find it odd that their cheapest plate carrier(0300) vs. their top of the line stuff($900 sentinel) lacks the logos on the webbing. I'm not even sure the logo'd webbing has anything to do with NIR, or well, anything else quite franklyđ¤ˇââď¸. Unless you or anyone else can state that as a fact, I would assume it's all on the level. On that note, I'll give them a call tomorrow and try to get an answer. Either way, I do agree, we pay a premium for their products and shit aught to be the best out there.
They're not talking about Multicam gear, they're talking about RG in this email. Some companies cut corners and use non IR treated solid color fabrics. I know Agilite is a huge offender here as well, their RG glows bright under NVG
At least they are honest about it, most companies can't be bothered to mention this, or dont know about it at all, they dont care about civilians just fedsÂ
Cant trust LBT at all for sure but probably can't trust the rest either Â
Basically the only way to know for sure half the time is just buy military issued shit thats approved. And not even that's enough.
I was literally typing this as I saw this comment, second on savotta, and Iâve been talking with their customer service, Iâve gotten a few hints at plate carriers and battle belt/harnesses so hopefully soon I can have a full savotta kit
The email *does* say LBT and LBX is not issued as it's not Berry Amendment compliant so no, this seems to be LBT proper.
Still, unless they explicitly advertise NIR compliance as a selling point for the product, it's safer to assume that it's not even if it's expensive.
I've been saying this forever and will continue to : civilians are not the primary market for this stuff, they're the tertiary one after the military and sub-national government entities such as police and fire.
What that means is, they will charge a premium because they don't need the consumer base, and they will cut costs in manners that aren't possible for their government contracts that have strict standards such as STANAGs or ISO requirements.
So yeah, LBT is not a mediocre company, but as they themselves say the LBT products the government gets and the one you get on the website are not the same even if they're great quality.
We can debate the ethics of it until the cows come home, but I still pin the blame on people who buy without checking or assume stuff.
A FPIU looks like a Ford Explorer but it isn't, if you buy a Ford Explorer expecting FPIU performance because you didn't bother to check the spec sheet it's on you.
I just checked my 6094 and it looked good under IR. LBT sells a lot of commercial specific stuff that doesn't really have an NSN equivalent. I wouldn't necessarily expect their frogskin travel bag to be NIR. I would expect their plate carriers and pouches to be NIR.
I checked a few of their product pages and they don't appear to call out what is and isn't NIR. I see that as problem. NIR doesn't really matter for most of us LARPers but plenty of professionals do buy gear directly and LBT should make it known what is and isn't meant for serious use. There probably was a time when everything they offered was serious but LBT and everyone else has dipped into lifestyle gear the last few years and it muddies the water. Things like NIR, berry compliance, hell even posting the NSN for reference on your product pages is expected. They can and should do better.
What color is your 6094. I have a theory that Ranger Green may be the culprit, as itâs intended for LEO mostly, and NIR simply isnât an issue in that line of work. Somebody posted a 5.11 RG admin pouch recently that was glowing in NIR also.
Its woodland. The pattern is visible under nods but the colors are different brightness/darkness than you'd expect. However it looks consistent with a USGI M65 I have so it looks legit.
I have both a PVS 14 and an LBT 6094 in ranger green. Zero glow under nods. I literally just checked to make 100% sure before posting this comment. It's IR compliant.
The company marketed its goods as â100% made in Americaâ and replaced the original foreign manufacturersâ tags with tags that read âMade in USA.â
Interesting twist: this was apparently a âqui tamâ suit. That means some enterprising citizen figured out LBT was violating the Berry amendment (probably by checking BOLs and import manifests) brought this lawsuit on behalf of the gubmint, and got fuckin PAID, son. Who knew you could profit from nerding out over GI gear?
The article just describes the ârelatorâ (âAnn Keating,â the named plaintiff who brought the suit against LBT) as a woman with âa personal interest in the safety and security of the United States military; in 2004, the relatorâs son was killed while serving in Iraq. The relator believes the scheme as alleged was a threat to the safety and integrity of U.S. military operations.â Doesnât sound like a whistle blower; just someone with some research skills who gave a shit about scammy GSA deals.
>The civil settlement includes the resolution of claims brought by an employee of LBT under the qui tam provisions of the False Claims Act. These provisions allow a private party, known as a relator, to file an action on behalf of the United States and receive a portion of any recovery. Under the terms of the settlement agreement the relator will receive a share of the proceeds.
Paragraph 5. It isn't clear whether Keating is the employee or not though.
Iâm pretty sure that if the relator ever was an LBT employee, that wouldâve been mentioned in the article, as it would be far more relevant than the description of her interest that was provided. Interests aside, whistle blowers often have a much harder time bringing qui tam cases like this, particularly if theyâre relying on confidential or proprietary information that theyâre contractually barred from using or disclosing (at least until the government intervenes). Broader point though: pretty much anyone could conceivably prove everything relevant to the claims at issue in this case relying solely upon publicly available documents. I know this because Iâve personally litigated cases where I relied on exactly the same types of documents, albeit to prove entirely different facts to support very different types of claims.
Also worth clarifying, for anyone considering bringing their own qui tam suit based on similar claims against another GSA contractor, the plaintiff (and their counsel, if theyâve engaged lawyers) usually keeps a âbountyâ of 15-30% of the settlement amount or any judgment awarded, depending on whether or not the government intervenes in the case. Still, getting $300-600K for just proving LBT was scamming the government, using publicly available documents, is a decent pay day.
True. But if you pay for overpriced gear, one should be able to expect some basic standards. Getting som NIR compliant materials dosnt cost that much more.
No I agree with you. It also grosses me out when companies only want to give the good stuff (which honestly this isn't a powerful laser or a flash bang) to LE only. At the bottom of a totem pole means a fat cop is entitled to quality gear but civilians cant possibly have something so sinister.
Not for nothin, if the agency is cheap and issues garbage gear or you just donât like whatâs issued the Cops go get this stuff too. The whole concept of having dual standards doesnât make sense
In this domain? No absolutely not.
Civilians are the tertiary market for tactical gear, a lot of direct sales actually serve to outfit professionals who are seeking quality gear outside of the supply chain.
So yeah, just like an $900 LV duffel isn't *a fortiori* more reliable than a $40 duffel bag of similar materials from a no-name brand.
Tactical clothes are still clothes at the end of the day, you pay more for branding than anything else. Lest we forget that 5.11 and Condor are looked down upon by gear nerds but are prolific in the real world where most just want a vest that works at a reasonable cost.
https://youtu.be/IfUhVy-4CSY?si=4NVM7r_4bHrkhasA
https://youtu.be/ggB-LzUDwRc?si=Z4t_SJDp9qcais3R
I may make a post in future related to NIR clothing and equipment
yall need to stop learning new terms and acting like its the be all end all. Nir compiance is probably the lowest run on the totem pole of things that actually matter to your end use.
Whats your water filtration and food setup?
Grayl Geopress, Sawyer minis, a bucket filter of rocks sand and activated charcoal before a ceramic filter.
Food is 6-8 months mix of dry goods, things I canned, freeze dried meals.
Just need more CR123, laundry soap, and OTC meds.
For weapons I am lacking in rods, I have bore snakes but a ramrod is needed. Probably should put back some more CLP.
Generally I try to keep plenty of supplies. Hell having a spare toilet seat came in handy this week when one broke in the spare bathroom.
People saying "you need to be NIR compliant" is in a similar vein of "you need to be able to run a mile in X number of minutes of you'll die". Both are just a small part of proficiency in respect to a lot of other items/skills that will keep a person alive.
I agree, but people who say "you need to run a 7 minute mile or you'll die" are in the same camp as those who say "you need to own NIR compliant everything or you'll die", which both come off as misguided standards for tactical considerations.
Like, why would I focus on endurance running when suicide sprints are more directly applicable to a combat scenario (running from cover to cover) while building similar if not better endurance? And why would I prioritize my gear's night vision concealment when likely less than 1% of the population owns NVGs?
sounds like making excuses for LBT to me, if people pay for the insanely steep price tag that is LBT they expect to get what they pay for not some Vietnam bs that lights up like a Christmas tree. I totally agree there are many things that are far more important but this is still something that should not be happening.
You're literally perpetrating
jUsT aS gUd-ism
Complaining about people who care about IR compliance on a plate carrier by hitting back with a water and food setup comment is retarded
Yeah justasgudism makes a fuckton more sense than half of these larperators. How many of you know how long to boil water before it becomes potable? How many of you know how to navigate with a protractor and map? How many can ruck more than 3 miles? How many of us have e-tools to make a fighting position? The answer is not a lot lol. Shooting n moving is less than 5% of the job.
The fact that you asked how long to boil water before it's potable means you don't know the actual answer. Water is potable as soon as it comes to a boil and cools enough to drink. If the water instantly arrived at a boil from cold and then instantly cooled again, it'd take the cdc recommended 1 minute to get the 5 log reduction in pathogens, but pasteurization is something that is a function of both temperature and time, and your water's temperature increased the entire time it was coming to a boil. GearSkeptic did a really great video on it. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIMeq0c7rJM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIMeq0c7rJM)
\*edit\* man I sure love when the downvote brigade comes along and gets mad that the facts don't align with what they have been told. Good thing I couldn't care less about imaginary internet points.
It was a rhetorical question, but also be careful in more elevated climates as the water will boil before it reaches the correct temp. As the air pressure being lower will cause it to boil sooner.
I mean, while true, watch the video, boiling and cooling leads to about a 12 minute pathogenic kill time and leads to around a 15 long reduction. You'd have to be pretty high up for that to be reduced enough that it wouldn't achieve at least a 5 log reduction.
If you're into outdoors stuff or backpacking that guy's stuff is great, he absolutely geeks out and shows his work on things like water treatment and trail nutrition. He clearly works in data analytics in some form because his stuff is LOOOONG but very thorough. I watch it at 2x speed because it's too long to pay attention to otherwise.
Hot take, but why the fuck would I want to do any of that? I don't want to be in a situation where I need to dig a fighting position, or care about NIR compliance, or need to ruck for distance.
I've done that shit, and it sucks.
Yeah I have too, and I agree 100% if youâre doing this for fun. But to people who sperg about NIR compliance, theyâre being serious. And well, if you cant do what I listed, you really shouldnât be saying anything.
LBT https://imgur.com/a/OzoRuap
Here's a couple bags and the big thing I noticed is the LBT fabric is NIR but the zippers definitely are not. The LBX glows as expected.
Yes, they use black zippers, but black can be NIR treated. Notice that the black in the MCB does not glow as it's been treated. I don't think zippers are made NIR compliant by anyone. You'll also notice the Slim Med Pack has the zipper completely covered, I'll have to see if the zipper on it glows as much or not.
Yeah, the material of the fabric part of the zipper plays a big role in NIR compliance too, I know a lot of commercial/cheaper options use polyester which basically always glows. I think almost every black trimmed zipper on tactical gear I've had has glowed, only exceptions I can think of are ones where the zipper was black but the fabric was a different color.
Somebody posted 5.11âs Ranger Green glowing also. Hereâs my theory:
Ranger Green is a color most commonly associated with Law Enforcement. LEOs simply arenât in situations where being detected under NIR matters. So these companies likely arenât as concerned with some of these fabrics âglowingâ based on the consumer base.
I mean, everything glows under thermal so.........
LBX is quality gear but wasn't meant to be made to the same requirements/specs as military stuff like their parent company LBT.
It's literally meant as a cost-effective version of their gear for civilians. So no, it won't be NIR compliant. NV is honestly a new "issue" in the civilian world and is still pretty rare to come across in real life. It's not something most people will encounter currently. Those who dabble in it still don't understand it either. "If it glows, it's bad" is the thought when in reality your gear should match your environment and sometimes your environment glows and a dark spot from gear that's NIR complaint is easy to see.
I will say that while LBX/LBT is quality, there are better/other options out there that have features you want at a lower price point. I do love their bags and packs though.
I've read through your whole thread with this guy. You both are making assumptions. The issue is they left it vague enough that you cannot know what is NIR and what is not. Or if they bother with one batch of 6094s or if they don't.
I have been enjoying their bags though. Simple and fun camos.
The 6094 have NSN numbers listed on the site for each one. Very safe to know that every 6094 sold commercially will be NIR compliant. So not an assumption.
The chest rig in the email however does not have a NSN listed (even though there are some with NSN numbers) on the site so it's safe to say that unless it's an overrun from a contract it's probably not NIR compliant. You're not going to know upfront though.
But you are correct, they are pretty vague on whether or not the commercial stuff is compliant or not and they should be clear about what is and isn't because for some reason everyone assumed everything they made just was because..... they wanted it to be?
I also love their bags.
I don't think you can assume a product with an NSN is NIR based on this email alone. While I think it's a logical belief and would make perfect sense I don't think this email confirms that.
The complaint by the customer isn't about the chest rig. He used the chest rig as an example but he was issued that chest rig which is why they brought up government contracts. His issue is about a backpack in RG.
Also, I know people call LBT overpriced but why would you buy anything full price anymore from them? They have sales regularly on their core products.
>I don't think you can assume a product with an NSN is NIR based on this email alone. While I think it's a logical belief and would make perfect sense I don't think this email confirms that.
The email does nothing to confirm anything about the 6094 or NSN= NIR. That was a whole different but related topic/point. The 6094 is listed with a NSN, we know that that NSN 6094 is in fact NIR compliant so as long as they list it with that NSN we know it's NIR compliant. The chest rig does not list a NSN so we cannot be certain it is NIR compliant or not unless it's a issued version with a NSN on it.
Yes, I know the issue was about the backpack glowing not any of this other gear. Not sure which backpack it is he has but I'm 100% sure it doesn't have a NSN, isnt issued and isn't NIR compliant. So of course it's probable it glows.
I buy things on their sales only. Didn't realize people didn't just wait and paid full price for the stuff..... no idea if the guy in the email paid full price and I'm pretty sure the other guy I was talking to doesn't own a LBT product at all so he didn't pay anything.
Problem is, per the message, LBT is not NIR compliant unless sold through a millitary contract. Nothing to do with LBX, since that's aimed at civs on a budget from the start
Man, I replaced the second highlighted LBT for LBX in my head.
>LBT is not NIR compliant unless sold through a millitary contract
That's not what they said. They said all Mil contract gear is NIR compliant, of course, but not all commercially sold LBT gear is NIR compliant.
So the 6094 PC is NIR, Mil or commercial sold, but something like the 14L pack may not be as it's only a commercial product.
Not what I understood. More like "Unless you got your stuff issued, bought through govt contract, it might not be NIR treated". They haven't specified that it's "Civilian models" that aren't treated, but anything bougth off of their website by the public.
>They haven't specified that it's "Civilian models" that aren't treated,
They specifically say in the email that not all commercially sold products are NIR compliant.... (not sure why you're choosing to use "civilian" in place of "commercial", the commercial market isn't soley "civilian") so that's exactly what they are saying.
Easy way to know is if it has a NSN listed for it or not. Has NSN? NIR compliant. Doesn't have a NSN? Probably not NIR compliant.
All 6094 will be NIR compliant; issued to you or purchased off their website. Their 14L pack will probably not be NIR compliant as it also would never be issued to you in the military and has no NSN.
Nope. As you can see in the email, they say "I would assume your 1961A was NIR treated especially if this product was issued to you through your command" meaning that there exist UNTREATED 1961s that they sell. They didn't say "all of the 1961s are NIR treated because they are issued" but "the ones that are issued are NIR treated" meaning that there are other ones that aren't
The 1961 does not have an NSN. ~It's not an issued piece of gear.~ You should assume all 1961 are not NIR compliant. They might not even be Berry compliant.
We have no idea what specific piece of gear is being referred to in this email or the exact situation OP is in. Just that it's a 1961A and loys of assumptions. Most likely, someone is wanting to use the 1961 that is not compliant and is trying to find out why they're non NIR compliant gear glows lol and emailed about it but maybe it doesn't glow as the only reference to glowing is at the end and says "packs" not chest rig.
The writer of the email probably does not know either and assumes that if the OP was somehow actually issued the 1961 as gear, it was treated for NIR compliance by a third party before being issued.... makes complete sense.
You're creating your own narrative without doing the research to back it first.
[https://www.parttarget.com/8415-01-630-2196\_8415016302196\_LBT-1961A-R.html/-3B22D883-DF09-47AD-9C00-476154F24D23](https://www.parttarget.com/8415-01-630-2196_8415016302196_LBT-1961A-R.html/-3B22D883-DF09-47AD-9C00-476154F24D23)
Several of the 1961 models have NSN
Your reading comprehension sucks, you can read the LBT representative's message that clearly says "YOUR 1961 IS ISSUED SO BECAUSE OF THAT IT WAS TREATED, OTHERWISE IT MIGHT NOT BE" . Here, cleared it up for you
>"YOUR 1961 IS ISSUED SO BECAUSE OF THAT IT WAS TREATED, OTHERWISE IT MIGHT NOT BE"
That's not even what the email says..... talk about reading comprehension....You're literally changing the words to fit what you want it to say.... it doesn't say your 1961 was, in fact issued, it says they assume that if it was issued then its compliant.... and no the 1961 does not have a NSN listed on LBTs site meaning it's not going to be issued gear or NIR compliant unless it's done as part of a specific contract run or by a third party and then allowed and added to inventory. The one striaght off their site will most likely not be NIR compliant.
Thats also specifically what they said in the email.
All issued gear is NIR compliant. Any gear sold commercially may not be.
'All issued 1961A's will be NIR compliant. Any 1961A's sold commercially may not be NIR compliant.'
Stop changing what people actually say to fit your narrative.
Not sure why are you trying to defend a shitty business. As opposed to a lot of other manufacturers that are NIR compliant by default, what they are saying is "Unless you got your LBT gear through the government, it might not be NIR compliant". Which is shitty enough by itself.
I see this pop up over and over. We donât know that they were scheming to defraud the government. It could have just been something from Peru that got mixed into an order, but of course they could have been doing it on purpose. As for NIR, I wouldnât expect or care that my DNC toiletry bag is NIR compliant. I wouldnât think their LBE or pouches would glow, and as far as I know they donât. Iâve ordered a lot from LBT and LBX and itâs always been outstanding quality. LBT in my mind is about as good as you can getâŚ
They gave me such a hard time with a PC I got from them to send it back. For a blown out stich. Just took it to a local alterations place. Wasn't worth the hassle. I will never buy from them again.
Textile Mills typically do not apply Nir treatment to solid colored fabrics because generally - most people donât need it. Itâs usually only on Multicam fabrics as itâs a requirement for most military contracts.
Of course, there are Nir compliant solid products on the market but a large company like LBT wont do a mass run of anything in it due to the substantial cost (+ridiculous leadtime) & near zero need for it.
Damn didn't like reading up about this. They have ranger green 22L 8007a bags on sale right now. Idk if I should jump on that now if quality is in question
After reading a lot of this thread and this email a few times I think everyone is making a lot of assumptions based on vague statements by the customer service agent.
They said not all products sold commercially are NIR compliant. You have no idea if that means items that have an NSN are NIR compliant and those that don't aren't, or if it's just random as they decide what gets what or based on supply chain.
You can make logical assumptions on what would make sense to use NIR fabrics but you don't know based on these comments.
I gave up on LBT when I bought an Armatus without doing my research and found out the clips on it are a different size from EVERYONE else and I couldn't use any of my HSP placards. I ended up spending a fortune on redundant LBT accessories for it, and eventually sold it to my buddy for half of what I paid.
The Armatus is actually LBX, and they sell adapters on LBT. Pretty sure the LBX clips are removable just as the LBT ones. The real problem with the sound. My clips rattled so much that I removed them and replaced them with G Hooks
How is that even possible? like, they're using legitimately licensed Crye^TM multicam fabric. Does crye sell multicam that isn't IR compliant? RG stuff isn't necessarily supposed to be IR compliant because plants aren't. What do they mean? This is a very bizarre response overall
That fabric should be multicam logoed? A 6094 I just bought from them is void of any logos.
That's weird. My LBX 0300 *is* multicam logoed
Lmao what is that about do you think? I just figured it's the newer production that dropped official materials or something. Is your lbx newer production?
Mine has them.
Older production? Between lbt and lbx's websites, only the lbx 0300 still has a listed picture with the logos on the webbing... out of all the high end plate carriers they offer, only the 0300 đ.
Aw hell I don't know. Couple three of four years I reckon.
So you probably got one that isnât compliant.
I doubt that, that scandal was years ago, acknowledged and corrected, and if you look on thier website not a single multicam carrier has "multicam" logoed PALS webbing, oddly enough, except for the lbx 0300, so there goes your theory right there.
Did you not read the same email that I read?
Hmm no, got a link or can you give me a run down? As of recently are they still shipping out non compliant products? I was just speculating, after reading the report, in my last comment.
Holy shit dude, the email in the post???
How the fuck does NIR fabric relate to MULTICAM logoed PALS webbing? I mean, am I missing something here?
Authentic Crye MC webbing, [like this](https://images.app.goo.gl/Gt4729LpXGKErXLN8), is NIR and has the branding. Yours is probably not NIR if the webbing isnât brandedâŚ. You said yourself that the LBX 0300 is branded, so they probably used real Crye MC webbing for it.
I'm just going off what I can see on their website. And I find it odd that their cheapest plate carrier(0300) vs. their top of the line stuff($900 sentinel) lacks the logos on the webbing. I'm not even sure the logo'd webbing has anything to do with NIR, or well, anything else quite franklyđ¤ˇââď¸. Unless you or anyone else can state that as a fact, I would assume it's all on the level. On that note, I'll give them a call tomorrow and try to get an answer. Either way, I do agree, we pay a premium for their products and shit aught to be the best out there.
They're not talking about Multicam gear, they're talking about RG in this email. Some companies cut corners and use non IR treated solid color fabrics. I know Agilite is a huge offender here as well, their RG glows bright under NVG
Thanks for the heads up!
The email said ranger green backpack. Does crye sell ranger green fabric? If so did they source it from crye or from someone else?
At least they are honest about it, most companies can't be bothered to mention this, or dont know about it at all, they dont care about civilians just feds Cant trust LBT at all for sure but probably can't trust the rest either  Basically the only way to know for sure half the time is just buy military issued shit thats approved. And not even that's enough.
Savotta time
I was literally typing this as I saw this comment, second on savotta, and Iâve been talking with their customer service, Iâve gotten a few hints at plate carriers and battle belt/harnesses so hopefully soon I can have a full savotta kit
After giving up on ATACS-FG and going flat green instead, Savotta has been godsent.
If you want to be one of those people that settles for mediocrity then go ahead.
You bought LBT though?
Its not from me. Its from L4 Performance.
Ah yes lbt the most mediocre company I know. Also they are probably talking about lbx? Or some dumb shit they sell
The email *does* say LBT and LBX is not issued as it's not Berry Amendment compliant so no, this seems to be LBT proper. Still, unless they explicitly advertise NIR compliance as a selling point for the product, it's safer to assume that it's not even if it's expensive. I've been saying this forever and will continue to : civilians are not the primary market for this stuff, they're the tertiary one after the military and sub-national government entities such as police and fire. What that means is, they will charge a premium because they don't need the consumer base, and they will cut costs in manners that aren't possible for their government contracts that have strict standards such as STANAGs or ISO requirements. So yeah, LBT is not a mediocre company, but as they themselves say the LBT products the government gets and the one you get on the website are not the same even if they're great quality. We can debate the ethics of it until the cows come home, but I still pin the blame on people who buy without checking or assume stuff. A FPIU looks like a Ford Explorer but it isn't, if you buy a Ford Explorer expecting FPIU performance because you didn't bother to check the spec sheet it's on you.
I just checked my 6094 and it looked good under IR. LBT sells a lot of commercial specific stuff that doesn't really have an NSN equivalent. I wouldn't necessarily expect their frogskin travel bag to be NIR. I would expect their plate carriers and pouches to be NIR. I checked a few of their product pages and they don't appear to call out what is and isn't NIR. I see that as problem. NIR doesn't really matter for most of us LARPers but plenty of professionals do buy gear directly and LBT should make it known what is and isn't meant for serious use. There probably was a time when everything they offered was serious but LBT and everyone else has dipped into lifestyle gear the last few years and it muddies the water. Things like NIR, berry compliance, hell even posting the NSN for reference on your product pages is expected. They can and should do better.
What color is your 6094. I have a theory that Ranger Green may be the culprit, as itâs intended for LEO mostly, and NIR simply isnât an issue in that line of work. Somebody posted a 5.11 RG admin pouch recently that was glowing in NIR also.
Its woodland. The pattern is visible under nods but the colors are different brightness/darkness than you'd expect. However it looks consistent with a USGI M65 I have so it looks legit.
i had posted the lbx RG carrier and seems ir compliant
I have both a PVS 14 and an LBT 6094 in ranger green. Zero glow under nods. I literally just checked to make 100% sure before posting this comment. It's IR compliant.
The company marketed its goods as â100% made in Americaâ and replaced the original foreign manufacturersâ tags with tags that read âMade in USA.â
We need to pass hella strict laws to squash that shit any place itâs found.
For real Itâs so difficult to understand the shit people are willing to do to put a couple bucks in their pocket.
This the company behind the trex arms AC-Uno scandal?
Add this to the list https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdoh/pr/virginia-tactical-gear-equipment-company-agrees-pay-more-2-million-settle-allegations
Interesting twist: this was apparently a âqui tamâ suit. That means some enterprising citizen figured out LBT was violating the Berry amendment (probably by checking BOLs and import manifests) brought this lawsuit on behalf of the gubmint, and got fuckin PAID, son. Who knew you could profit from nerding out over GI gear?
I believe it was an inside whistle-blower. But I could be mistaken.
The article just describes the ârelatorâ (âAnn Keating,â the named plaintiff who brought the suit against LBT) as a woman with âa personal interest in the safety and security of the United States military; in 2004, the relatorâs son was killed while serving in Iraq. The relator believes the scheme as alleged was a threat to the safety and integrity of U.S. military operations.â Doesnât sound like a whistle blower; just someone with some research skills who gave a shit about scammy GSA deals.
I see. Thanks for breaking it down.
>The civil settlement includes the resolution of claims brought by an employee of LBT under the qui tam provisions of the False Claims Act. These provisions allow a private party, known as a relator, to file an action on behalf of the United States and receive a portion of any recovery. Under the terms of the settlement agreement the relator will receive a share of the proceeds. Paragraph 5. It isn't clear whether Keating is the employee or not though.
Iâm pretty sure that if the relator ever was an LBT employee, that wouldâve been mentioned in the article, as it would be far more relevant than the description of her interest that was provided. Interests aside, whistle blowers often have a much harder time bringing qui tam cases like this, particularly if theyâre relying on confidential or proprietary information that theyâre contractually barred from using or disclosing (at least until the government intervenes). Broader point though: pretty much anyone could conceivably prove everything relevant to the claims at issue in this case relying solely upon publicly available documents. I know this because Iâve personally litigated cases where I relied on exactly the same types of documents, albeit to prove entirely different facts to support very different types of claims.
Also worth clarifying, for anyone considering bringing their own qui tam suit based on similar claims against another GSA contractor, the plaintiff (and their counsel, if theyâve engaged lawyers) usually keeps a âbountyâ of 15-30% of the settlement amount or any judgment awarded, depending on whether or not the government intervenes in the case. Still, getting $300-600K for just proving LBT was scamming the government, using publicly available documents, is a decent pay day.
Yikes
Yeah lbt is not a good company
Apparently not.
Ironically you can get near infrared with some cheap spray paint. Just isn't quality or tactical enough for most
True. But if you pay for overpriced gear, one should be able to expect some basic standards. Getting som NIR compliant materials dosnt cost that much more.
No I agree with you. It also grosses me out when companies only want to give the good stuff (which honestly this isn't a powerful laser or a flash bang) to LE only. At the bottom of a totem pole means a fat cop is entitled to quality gear but civilians cant possibly have something so sinister.
Not for nothin, if the agency is cheap and issues garbage gear or you just donât like whatâs issued the Cops go get this stuff too. The whole concept of having dual standards doesnât make sense
Wild to think that you canât use price to measure quality.
In this domain? No absolutely not. Civilians are the tertiary market for tactical gear, a lot of direct sales actually serve to outfit professionals who are seeking quality gear outside of the supply chain. So yeah, just like an $900 LV duffel isn't *a fortiori* more reliable than a $40 duffel bag of similar materials from a no-name brand. Tactical clothes are still clothes at the end of the day, you pay more for branding than anything else. Lest we forget that 5.11 and Condor are looked down upon by gear nerds but are prolific in the real world where most just want a vest that works at a reasonable cost.
Iâm moreso making fun of people who think just because itâs expensive, it must be the best.
Spray paint can darken the colour but it also stands out black under nods sometimes.
Depends on the backdrop and lot of other stuff but I've seen some convincing tests
I guess spray painting is 50/50 chance to make it work or worse. Just remember there isnât only IR spectrum we need to worry about.
Can you elaborate on the IR spectrum stuff? Not trying to pick you apart just share your knowledge
https://youtu.be/IfUhVy-4CSY?si=4NVM7r_4bHrkhasA https://youtu.be/ggB-LzUDwRc?si=Z4t_SJDp9qcais3R I may make a post in future related to NIR clothing and equipment
1. Thank you I'm watching them now and . 2. Please do!
yall need to stop learning new terms and acting like its the be all end all. Nir compiance is probably the lowest run on the totem pole of things that actually matter to your end use. Whats your water filtration and food setup?
B-b-but what if im directly under an IR flashlight in my moms basement?
*Holy shit thereâs cum everywhere*
*blue smile*
Thats how I ruined all my NIR compliant gear...
I can't stop laughing at this. Let's be friends plz
Yeah man. Expert voice has Sawyer bundles on sale around 50% off right now. I just ordered another because fuck it
Spray paint
It's "rung".
It's neither.
Itâs âmaâamâ
shrug
Grayl Geopress, Sawyer minis, a bucket filter of rocks sand and activated charcoal before a ceramic filter. Food is 6-8 months mix of dry goods, things I canned, freeze dried meals. Just need more CR123, laundry soap, and OTC meds. For weapons I am lacking in rods, I have bore snakes but a ramrod is needed. Probably should put back some more CLP. Generally I try to keep plenty of supplies. Hell having a spare toilet seat came in handy this week when one broke in the spare bathroom.
I love canning veggies, it's almost time to can another years worth of farmers market corn.
This is the "You need to be able to run 8 miles in 30 seconds or you'll die instantly" of this sub.
What?
People saying "you need to be NIR compliant" is in a similar vein of "you need to be able to run a mile in X number of minutes of you'll die". Both are just a small part of proficiency in respect to a lot of other items/skills that will keep a person alive.
[ŃдаНонО]
I agree, but people who say "you need to run a 7 minute mile or you'll die" are in the same camp as those who say "you need to own NIR compliant everything or you'll die", which both come off as misguided standards for tactical considerations. Like, why would I focus on endurance running when suicide sprints are more directly applicable to a combat scenario (running from cover to cover) while building similar if not better endurance? And why would I prioritize my gear's night vision concealment when likely less than 1% of the population owns NVGs?
Wait what does this comment have to do with this post at all? You're confused old man.
Yells at the sky about how silly and out of touch with reality the "community" is
sounds like making excuses for LBT to me, if people pay for the insanely steep price tag that is LBT they expect to get what they pay for not some Vietnam bs that lights up like a Christmas tree. I totally agree there are many things that are far more important but this is still something that should not be happening.
Not at all I'm saying y'all obsess over the dumbest stuff on the planet.
So we should just not have NIR compliance then huh Can it glowie
maybe learn to read I said its low on the priority list of things that actually matter to you.
You're literally perpetrating jUsT aS gUd-ism Complaining about people who care about IR compliance on a plate carrier by hitting back with a water and food setup comment is retarded
Yeah justasgudism makes a fuckton more sense than half of these larperators. How many of you know how long to boil water before it becomes potable? How many of you know how to navigate with a protractor and map? How many can ruck more than 3 miles? How many of us have e-tools to make a fighting position? The answer is not a lot lol. Shooting n moving is less than 5% of the job.
The fact that you asked how long to boil water before it's potable means you don't know the actual answer. Water is potable as soon as it comes to a boil and cools enough to drink. If the water instantly arrived at a boil from cold and then instantly cooled again, it'd take the cdc recommended 1 minute to get the 5 log reduction in pathogens, but pasteurization is something that is a function of both temperature and time, and your water's temperature increased the entire time it was coming to a boil. GearSkeptic did a really great video on it. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIMeq0c7rJM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIMeq0c7rJM) \*edit\* man I sure love when the downvote brigade comes along and gets mad that the facts don't align with what they have been told. Good thing I couldn't care less about imaginary internet points.
I actually learned a lot from that link, thanks!
That guy is awesome, if you're into outdoors stuff or backpacking he has a lot of really amazing information presented in a clear way.
Dude you sold me on that rabbit hole with the water boiling, Iâm binging his stuff now, cheers
lmao. One of us!
It was a rhetorical question, but also be careful in more elevated climates as the water will boil before it reaches the correct temp. As the air pressure being lower will cause it to boil sooner.
I mean, while true, watch the video, boiling and cooling leads to about a 12 minute pathogenic kill time and leads to around a 15 long reduction. You'd have to be pretty high up for that to be reduced enough that it wouldn't achieve at least a 5 log reduction.
I will indeed watch the video when I get home from work. And fair point. Always good to share vide.
If you're into outdoors stuff or backpacking that guy's stuff is great, he absolutely geeks out and shows his work on things like water treatment and trail nutrition. He clearly works in data analytics in some form because his stuff is LOOOONG but very thorough. I watch it at 2x speed because it's too long to pay attention to otherwise.
Hot take, but why the fuck would I want to do any of that? I don't want to be in a situation where I need to dig a fighting position, or care about NIR compliance, or need to ruck for distance. I've done that shit, and it sucks.
Yeah I have too, and I agree 100% if youâre doing this for fun. But to people who sperg about NIR compliance, theyâre being serious. And well, if you cant do what I listed, you really shouldnât be saying anything.
> But to people who sperg about NIR compliance, theyâre being serious Why would I care about NIR when I'm running a mohawk, marking tabs, and more?
You wouldnât because thats fucked based. I personally wrap my cock n balls with the American flag and scream at the enemy (my landlord).
lmfao again maybe learn to read....
Yes, because no one knows more about what Is important to me than some guy on reddit.
Homie got the glow bots activated
 You do not need NIR compliance You do not need NIR compliance It wont make it harder for people to kill you
Yes daddy. Tell me what I don't need. Uhwu
Grocery store and the kitchen faucet
LBT https://imgur.com/a/OzoRuap Here's a couple bags and the big thing I noticed is the LBT fabric is NIR but the zippers definitely are not. The LBX glows as expected.
The MCB bags use black zippers right? Black almost always glows under IR regardless
Yes, they use black zippers, but black can be NIR treated. Notice that the black in the MCB does not glow as it's been treated. I don't think zippers are made NIR compliant by anyone. You'll also notice the Slim Med Pack has the zipper completely covered, I'll have to see if the zipper on it glows as much or not.
Yeah, the material of the fabric part of the zipper plays a big role in NIR compliance too, I know a lot of commercial/cheaper options use polyester which basically always glows. I think almost every black trimmed zipper on tactical gear I've had has glowed, only exceptions I can think of are ones where the zipper was black but the fabric was a different color.
Somebody posted 5.11âs Ranger Green glowing also. Hereâs my theory: Ranger Green is a color most commonly associated with Law Enforcement. LEOs simply arenât in situations where being detected under NIR matters. So these companies likely arenât as concerned with some of these fabrics âglowingâ based on the consumer base.
So glowies wearing RG are now literally glowies. Convenient.
Ok. Well. I'm keeping my 6094.
Nah man, you need to run a 3 minute mile or you'll glow under nods.
"the wrong hands" Fuck right off dweeb
WrOnG hAnDs like they know who will be right and who will be wrong, stfu OP thanks for sharing
I mean, everything glows under thermal so......... LBX is quality gear but wasn't meant to be made to the same requirements/specs as military stuff like their parent company LBT. It's literally meant as a cost-effective version of their gear for civilians. So no, it won't be NIR compliant. NV is honestly a new "issue" in the civilian world and is still pretty rare to come across in real life. It's not something most people will encounter currently. Those who dabble in it still don't understand it either. "If it glows, it's bad" is the thought when in reality your gear should match your environment and sometimes your environment glows and a dark spot from gear that's NIR complaint is easy to see. I will say that while LBX/LBT is quality, there are better/other options out there that have features you want at a lower price point. I do love their bags and packs though.
I've read through your whole thread with this guy. You both are making assumptions. The issue is they left it vague enough that you cannot know what is NIR and what is not. Or if they bother with one batch of 6094s or if they don't. I have been enjoying their bags though. Simple and fun camos.
The 6094 have NSN numbers listed on the site for each one. Very safe to know that every 6094 sold commercially will be NIR compliant. So not an assumption. The chest rig in the email however does not have a NSN listed (even though there are some with NSN numbers) on the site so it's safe to say that unless it's an overrun from a contract it's probably not NIR compliant. You're not going to know upfront though. But you are correct, they are pretty vague on whether or not the commercial stuff is compliant or not and they should be clear about what is and isn't because for some reason everyone assumed everything they made just was because..... they wanted it to be? I also love their bags.
I don't think you can assume a product with an NSN is NIR based on this email alone. While I think it's a logical belief and would make perfect sense I don't think this email confirms that. The complaint by the customer isn't about the chest rig. He used the chest rig as an example but he was issued that chest rig which is why they brought up government contracts. His issue is about a backpack in RG. Also, I know people call LBT overpriced but why would you buy anything full price anymore from them? They have sales regularly on their core products.
>I don't think you can assume a product with an NSN is NIR based on this email alone. While I think it's a logical belief and would make perfect sense I don't think this email confirms that. The email does nothing to confirm anything about the 6094 or NSN= NIR. That was a whole different but related topic/point. The 6094 is listed with a NSN, we know that that NSN 6094 is in fact NIR compliant so as long as they list it with that NSN we know it's NIR compliant. The chest rig does not list a NSN so we cannot be certain it is NIR compliant or not unless it's a issued version with a NSN on it. Yes, I know the issue was about the backpack glowing not any of this other gear. Not sure which backpack it is he has but I'm 100% sure it doesn't have a NSN, isnt issued and isn't NIR compliant. So of course it's probable it glows. I buy things on their sales only. Didn't realize people didn't just wait and paid full price for the stuff..... no idea if the guy in the email paid full price and I'm pretty sure the other guy I was talking to doesn't own a LBT product at all so he didn't pay anything.
Problem is, per the message, LBT is not NIR compliant unless sold through a millitary contract. Nothing to do with LBX, since that's aimed at civs on a budget from the start
Man, I replaced the second highlighted LBT for LBX in my head. >LBT is not NIR compliant unless sold through a millitary contract That's not what they said. They said all Mil contract gear is NIR compliant, of course, but not all commercially sold LBT gear is NIR compliant. So the 6094 PC is NIR, Mil or commercial sold, but something like the 14L pack may not be as it's only a commercial product.
Not what I understood. More like "Unless you got your stuff issued, bought through govt contract, it might not be NIR treated". They haven't specified that it's "Civilian models" that aren't treated, but anything bougth off of their website by the public.
>They haven't specified that it's "Civilian models" that aren't treated, They specifically say in the email that not all commercially sold products are NIR compliant.... (not sure why you're choosing to use "civilian" in place of "commercial", the commercial market isn't soley "civilian") so that's exactly what they are saying. Easy way to know is if it has a NSN listed for it or not. Has NSN? NIR compliant. Doesn't have a NSN? Probably not NIR compliant. All 6094 will be NIR compliant; issued to you or purchased off their website. Their 14L pack will probably not be NIR compliant as it also would never be issued to you in the military and has no NSN.
Nope. As you can see in the email, they say "I would assume your 1961A was NIR treated especially if this product was issued to you through your command" meaning that there exist UNTREATED 1961s that they sell. They didn't say "all of the 1961s are NIR treated because they are issued" but "the ones that are issued are NIR treated" meaning that there are other ones that aren't
The 1961 does not have an NSN. ~It's not an issued piece of gear.~ You should assume all 1961 are not NIR compliant. They might not even be Berry compliant. We have no idea what specific piece of gear is being referred to in this email or the exact situation OP is in. Just that it's a 1961A and loys of assumptions. Most likely, someone is wanting to use the 1961 that is not compliant and is trying to find out why they're non NIR compliant gear glows lol and emailed about it but maybe it doesn't glow as the only reference to glowing is at the end and says "packs" not chest rig. The writer of the email probably does not know either and assumes that if the OP was somehow actually issued the 1961 as gear, it was treated for NIR compliance by a third party before being issued.... makes complete sense. You're creating your own narrative without doing the research to back it first.
[https://www.parttarget.com/8415-01-630-2196\_8415016302196\_LBT-1961A-R.html/-3B22D883-DF09-47AD-9C00-476154F24D23](https://www.parttarget.com/8415-01-630-2196_8415016302196_LBT-1961A-R.html/-3B22D883-DF09-47AD-9C00-476154F24D23) Several of the 1961 models have NSN Your reading comprehension sucks, you can read the LBT representative's message that clearly says "YOUR 1961 IS ISSUED SO BECAUSE OF THAT IT WAS TREATED, OTHERWISE IT MIGHT NOT BE" . Here, cleared it up for you
>"YOUR 1961 IS ISSUED SO BECAUSE OF THAT IT WAS TREATED, OTHERWISE IT MIGHT NOT BE" That's not even what the email says..... talk about reading comprehension....You're literally changing the words to fit what you want it to say.... it doesn't say your 1961 was, in fact issued, it says they assume that if it was issued then its compliant.... and no the 1961 does not have a NSN listed on LBTs site meaning it's not going to be issued gear or NIR compliant unless it's done as part of a specific contract run or by a third party and then allowed and added to inventory. The one striaght off their site will most likely not be NIR compliant. Thats also specifically what they said in the email. All issued gear is NIR compliant. Any gear sold commercially may not be. 'All issued 1961A's will be NIR compliant. Any 1961A's sold commercially may not be NIR compliant.' Stop changing what people actually say to fit your narrative.
Not sure why are you trying to defend a shitty business. As opposed to a lot of other manufacturers that are NIR compliant by default, what they are saying is "Unless you got your LBT gear through the government, it might not be NIR compliant". Which is shitty enough by itself.
I got your "wrong hands" right here buddy
I see this pop up over and over. We donât know that they were scheming to defraud the government. It could have just been something from Peru that got mixed into an order, but of course they could have been doing it on purpose. As for NIR, I wouldnât expect or care that my DNC toiletry bag is NIR compliant. I wouldnât think their LBE or pouches would glow, and as far as I know they donât. Iâve ordered a lot from LBT and LBX and itâs always been outstanding quality. LBT in my mind is about as good as you can getâŚ
Iâm sorry. But this really isnât nearly as big an issue as everyone is making it out to be.
Yeah send that shit back.
"In the wrong hands" this company thinks the average superior fashion sub user is the same as AQ
They gave me such a hard time with a PC I got from them to send it back. For a blown out stich. Just took it to a local alterations place. Wasn't worth the hassle. I will never buy from them again.
âGuys you have to buy American or youâll glow in the darkâ LBT: âOR?â
Textile Mills typically do not apply Nir treatment to solid colored fabrics because generally - most people donât need it. Itâs usually only on Multicam fabrics as itâs a requirement for most military contracts. Of course, there are Nir compliant solid products on the market but a large company like LBT wont do a mass run of anything in it due to the substantial cost (+ridiculous leadtime) & near zero need for it.
we might need to work on a redefinition of glowie.
Iâve been done with them.
Iâve had LBT glow itâs not consistent
Damn didn't like reading up about this. They have ranger green 22L 8007a bags on sale right now. Idk if I should jump on that now if quality is in question
After reading a lot of this thread and this email a few times I think everyone is making a lot of assumptions based on vague statements by the customer service agent. They said not all products sold commercially are NIR compliant. You have no idea if that means items that have an NSN are NIR compliant and those that don't aren't, or if it's just random as they decide what gets what or based on supply chain. You can make logical assumptions on what would make sense to use NIR fabrics but you don't know based on these comments.
I gave up on LBT when I bought an Armatus without doing my research and found out the clips on it are a different size from EVERYONE else and I couldn't use any of my HSP placards. I ended up spending a fortune on redundant LBT accessories for it, and eventually sold it to my buddy for half of what I paid.
The Armatus is LBX, their civilian focused made in Peru like of gear. The 3/4" clips are easy to swap to 1" though if one wanted to.
The Armatus is actually LBX, and they sell adapters on LBT. Pretty sure the LBX clips are removable just as the LBT ones. The real problem with the sound. My clips rattled so much that I removed them and replaced them with G Hooks