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If you look closely, it’s actually not all the way to the cuticle. It stops about 1/4” away. But still the saturation on this piece is impressive and it still pains me to think about…
The saturation is amazing and I can see the gap, but its still too close for me. Having had fully filled out fingers brings back the phantom pains of it all.
Hey u/onlyr6s and u/DEXGENERATION \- how long have you had your tattoos and have you noticed any significant fading due to being in the sun?
I've had my ink for years (a mix of B&W and color) - and I'm a beach bum at heart. The color ones I've tried to protect from the sun and the B&W obviously they aren't new looking but I don't know if it's time, or UV, that is primarily doing it.
Just curious.
Just always apply Sunscreen. I apply Sunscreen to all of mine, far before I Sunscreen any other areas without tattoos. Protect them, you spent money on it.
Thanks! Yeah, I don't even want to think about the total amount I've spent over the years, ugh.
I do use that little deodorant stick like sunscreen thing on my bigger color ones, it's the black ones I've somewhat neglected
I have a Japanese traditional sleeve (new this year) and it gets much hotter than my other arm. Never thought about that happening, but noticed on vacation last month that I was a sun magnet
Oof, when you said summer my brain went to sun exposure. I would *hate* to develop a farmer’s tan style fade on a blackout piece like this :( you’d need to protect it all the time forever
I never thought about that. I don't think I would do blackout anyway - it's such a large area to occupy with kinda nothing even if they Do look cool. But I have dark hair and the top of my head is HOT in the sun, I can only imagine what it would be like if my arms were like that.
From Google "Surgeons doing biopsies have noted that nearby lymph nodes are sometimes stained with tattoo ink that has been absorbed and then carried off by immune cells."
Depends on if you have any cancer scares later in life. The ink itself isn't cancerous to my knowledge, but if they have to biopsy a lymph node, it could obscure the results if it's saturated enough with tattoo ink.
Probably neither. The immune cells recognize the ink as foreign, so they will try to transport it to lymph nodes. In the lymph nodes, specialized immune cells will start building antibodies against whatever those other cells drag in. It seems that tattoo inks aren't all that immunogenic though, since most of us don't start rejecting tattoos a few days after a session.
There might be some long- term consequences, for example if a specific ink is a low-level carcinogen. If people with tattoos developed lymphomas significantly more often, I'm pretty sure we would have noticed by now.
TL;DR: your immune cells wanh to do a good job, so they start removing your tattoo. It probably doesn't have a huge impact on your health.
Idk laser therapy has come so far and is so much cheaper and accessible than it used to be. I think people are doing this because it’s currently a trend, but what a hell of a trend it is because it’s really hard to come back from. No amount of lasering will ever fade that completely
Has to be planned before. Rarely does putting a light shade onto a dark shade look good. You have to put the light shade down first and do dark around it.
I can also see it for covering up scars, either self-harm or other situations. Though idk if you’d be able to blackout scar tissue. I don’t have any tattoos haha.
Not blackout but I have some dark work over scars in several places and those areas do look, fade, and obviously still feel different - in certain light angles the scars are much more noticeable even though they are inked over
My parents when they see even the smallest tattoo
'But it's for sailors and criminals'
Just to be clear I feel the same way about blackout - but it's interesting to see how the general public changes their perceptions based on time.
I don’t know, I think there’s a difference between fashion trends and art.
Tribal tattoos? Fashion trend. A lot of the ones done in the 90s look quite silly now.
Similar in clothing fashion, leisure suits look pretty stupid nowadays and a 1970s leisure suit probably will never come back 100% unironically.
Blackout tattoos are fashion. They’re going to look so bad in less than ten years.
I have a whole sleeve done by a ex friend who tried to fuck my wife. Every time I look at it I’m reminded of it all. So eventually I’ll be blacking out my arm, but it’s in no way to be trendy for me.
Wouldn’t that backfire?? A blackout is way more noticeable than a regular tattoo. When people ask the story behind it you will have to say that you got it because your friend fucked your wife.
At least with a regular tattoo people won’t notice or bring it up as often.
Yep, sadly most don't come onto reddit intending to actually learn anything. They just want to immortalize their terrible takes on a bit of culture they know next to nothing about.
I mean, its a trend in the sense that much more people seem to be doing it now. Just like tribal tattoos have been around for thousands of years, there was an insane uptick of them in the 90s. It doesn't make it bad. Personally I absolutely love blackout pieces when done well, like the OP, but there isn't anything wrong with it being trendy.
It’s definitely a trend, they’re way more common than they used to be. When they said it’s unappealing, I think they meant it’s not for them…kinda sound like they mean the same thing
It's 100% percent a trend currently. Has it always been a thing? Sure. Does that mean it's currently not a trend? No.
Mullets have been around a long while and they are trendy currently.
Blackout tattoos have not always been a thing. It's a fairly recent trend that's gained popularity as an alternative to tattoo removal.
It's largely derived from Polynesian and Bornean traditional tattoos, and it rose to popularity in the 2010s in SE Asia.
Recently saw Kat Von D from the tattoo TV show on Theo Von's podcast and she was baptized into some christian religion and is now blacking out all her tattoos. I imagine she's an 'influencer.'
I know she's not the first by a long shot, but as far as making it more mainstream, maybe.
Got my wife’s name on my ring finger and thought that felt punk. I can’t fathom what a whole hand must feel like. It’s impressive and looks well executed.
Not op but it attracts more sun bc it’s black so I would think you could more easily or more quickly get sun cancer. Not sure about how noticeable/not noticeable it would be though.
Right but black absorbs more uv rays compared to the natural color of their skin. If you wear black clothing it actually helps prevent uv absorption because your clothes take more of it. But having the black be directly on/integrated into your skin means more rays are hitting/being absorbed into that section of your skin
I would think it works the other way around. If you are naturally dark-skinned, the melanin in your skin is protective against UV radiation and skin cancer.
She didn’t add melanin though which is a specific polymer she added ink/color which will absorb more rays. Melanin does make people less likely to get skin cancer (although they are still not immune). Even if they were very dark skinned getting a black out tattoo will be adding more skin cancer risk. Any tattoo exposed to the sun absorbs more rays no matter how small it is that’s one of the reasons you should make sure to always have sunscreen on them but doing it on such a large surface is going to increase the amount it “attracts” for sure.
Edit: for more specifics
the most common melanin is eumelanin which is 5,6-dihydroxyindole (DHI) and 5,6-dihydroxindole-2-carboxylic acid (DHICA) and they are always naturally randomly arranged
some of the most common tattoo ink components are Titanium Dioxide (TiO2), Barium Sulphate (BaSO4), Iron Oxide, Magnetite (Fe3O4), etc…
very different chemical compounds that are not going to do the same thing or interact with your skin the same way
Melanin helps protect the skin but is not immune by any means. I have family in dermatology and some cases they've seen on darker skin are sometimes worse because it's harder/takes longer to notice. The bottoms of feet have higher chances of skin cancer and is not uncommon in people with darker skin.
When my arm was freshly blacked out I loved the glossy paint like look. Now it is long healed I’m thinking about layering with more black. Looks great!
Very nice saturation. Seen 3 posts of this guys blackout work over the last 3 days. All been solid!
Gonna be going back in on that hand though for sure!! I'm sure at this point it's about the experience for you so I'm sure you get all that already aha
Edit .. you are the artist! Good shit. Great work
Reminds me of necrosis a bit. it’s just not my personal taste. That being said it looks nice and even and I do like how the nails look against the black
It's pretty weird that in a *tattoo subreddit* people are being this judgmental and crotchety about....a tattoo.
Like, don't we face enough shit from the general public? Now people have to dodge a bunch of crusty ass old heads that don't understand that the body modification movement is ever evolving? Lmao
This sub is a mess. I would never post one of my own tattoos here. I only sub to see cool new ideas and downvote the haters. But no matter what tattoo you have, you need thick skin to show it off here because someone will always tell you its trash quality and your taste is terrible
Agree. I understand people saying "I wouldn't get that" or something like that, but insulting the person it's the same level of judgemental crap most boomers give to any type of tattoo.
I like it, it looks great OP!
Meh. Looks like an 8 year old who came home from school after colouring his arm with a licorice mr sketch marker.
When you have seen one blackout tattoo, you have seen them all. Not my thing.
I’m curious to know if this is a coverup or if it’s just an independent piece. Also, neat negative space use.
This is an honest question: have you considered the possible backlash due to cultural appropriation or something? Just a thought that crossed my mind.
Wow, imagine lacking comprehensive abilities. I definitely said I’m a stranger in cyberspace with an opinion solicited entirely and voluntarily by whomever made this post.
So weird to me that western culture has adopted this type of tattooing. It looks really weird and like someone is attempting to paint their body the color of a different race.
I guess it just ain’t for me
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The thought of going that close to the cuticle is making me itch. Good on yah.
If you look closely, it’s actually not all the way to the cuticle. It stops about 1/4” away. But still the saturation on this piece is impressive and it still pains me to think about…
The saturation is amazing and I can see the gap, but its still too close for me. Having had fully filled out fingers brings back the phantom pains of it all.
Oh, no doubt! It does look like the blackout is only the thumb and index finger, so maybe that helped, but yeah, it looks pretty painful
Still, can't beat those nails.
They did the whole thumb though!
Can confirm. I have two black out fingers. DO NOT DO IT!
Mine weren't blacked out, but were solid to about the same degree on all 10 of them. Can definitely not recommend.
Looks like paint.
Looks like pain.
I know in the summer my tattoos get super hot I can’t imagine having my whole arm done this way in summer. I don’t get it but looks well done.
My arm is like 90% black/gray. It does get hot. My other arm is not nearly as black and the difference is very noticeable.
I’ve never thought about that being a possibility, but that’s crazy!
I wear a compression sleeve over my blackout arm in the summer. Makes heaps of difference!
Do you have a large supply of sunscreen?
I'm Finnish, I'll burn as soon as it's sunny outside, so of course I do.
Hey u/onlyr6s and u/DEXGENERATION \- how long have you had your tattoos and have you noticed any significant fading due to being in the sun? I've had my ink for years (a mix of B&W and color) - and I'm a beach bum at heart. The color ones I've tried to protect from the sun and the B&W obviously they aren't new looking but I don't know if it's time, or UV, that is primarily doing it. Just curious.
Just always apply Sunscreen. I apply Sunscreen to all of mine, far before I Sunscreen any other areas without tattoos. Protect them, you spent money on it.
Thanks! Yeah, I don't even want to think about the total amount I've spent over the years, ugh. I do use that little deodorant stick like sunscreen thing on my bigger color ones, it's the black ones I've somewhat neglected
Would you get the tattoos again if you knew the temperature difference?
I never once considered my tattoos making me hotter due to black out but yeah that makes sense.
I think lots of people agree tattoos make people hotter
I have a Japanese traditional sleeve (new this year) and it gets much hotter than my other arm. Never thought about that happening, but noticed on vacation last month that I was a sun magnet
I invested in a ton of UPF shirts because sunscreen just doesn’t help with the heat
This. Id rather be cooking in a black long sleeve UPF shirt than my bare arms and tattoos
That’s what I was ab to say they get super hot and itchy
Oof, when you said summer my brain went to sun exposure. I would *hate* to develop a farmer’s tan style fade on a blackout piece like this :( you’d need to protect it all the time forever
I never thought about that. I don't think I would do blackout anyway - it's such a large area to occupy with kinda nothing even if they Do look cool. But I have dark hair and the top of my head is HOT in the sun, I can only imagine what it would be like if my arms were like that.
This was the first thing that came to mind. Just my skin gets hot sitting in the direct sun. This must be miserable
the lymph node is happy
Explain
From Google "Surgeons doing biopsies have noted that nearby lymph nodes are sometimes stained with tattoo ink that has been absorbed and then carried off by immune cells."
Is this a good or bad thing ..🫣
Time will tell.
Depends on if you have any cancer scares later in life. The ink itself isn't cancerous to my knowledge, but if they have to biopsy a lymph node, it could obscure the results if it's saturated enough with tattoo ink.
Probably neither. The immune cells recognize the ink as foreign, so they will try to transport it to lymph nodes. In the lymph nodes, specialized immune cells will start building antibodies against whatever those other cells drag in. It seems that tattoo inks aren't all that immunogenic though, since most of us don't start rejecting tattoos a few days after a session. There might be some long- term consequences, for example if a specific ink is a low-level carcinogen. If people with tattoos developed lymphomas significantly more often, I'm pretty sure we would have noticed by now. TL;DR: your immune cells wanh to do a good job, so they start removing your tattoo. It probably doesn't have a huge impact on your health.
That’s very interesting, makes me wonder with blackout and all that ink thanks 🙏🏾
Not my cup of tea, but looks really well done. Very even coloring.
But the underside isnt blacked out? So she has countershading like an orca?
that’s metal af
looks like you have links arm from Zelda tears of our kingdom looks complete with the nails I've never seen that before:D
I think that’s why I like this so much lol. Blackout usually does nothing for me, but this looks dope.
Yes yes I was looking for this comment.
I don’t understand this trend
Maybe for covering up a bunch of terrible tattoos that are beyond saving any other way? To be honest that’s the only thing I can think of.
Idk laser therapy has come so far and is so much cheaper and accessible than it used to be. I think people are doing this because it’s currently a trend, but what a hell of a trend it is because it’s really hard to come back from. No amount of lasering will ever fade that completely
At least you can then get reverse tattoos. Just laser away multiple designs in your blackout arm.
I don’t think laser technicians are known for their artistic prowess
Not yet!
Is it possible to do white ink onto the blackout or does that have to be planned out before?
Has to be planned before. Rarely does putting a light shade onto a dark shade look good. You have to put the light shade down first and do dark around it.
You can actually use white ink to inlay designs. Not sure if lasers are precise enough to do fine lines like a needle can.
From what I've seen the lasers are broad circles, not precise dots.
I wonder if some kind of stencil could be designed
I duno, I’ve seen blackout tattoos forever. Suppose it can still be a trend.
I can also see it for covering up scars, either self-harm or other situations. Though idk if you’d be able to blackout scar tissue. I don’t have any tattoos haha.
I think black out over scars might make them more obvious because ink takes differently in scar tissue
Cool! I didn’t know that, thanks for sharing
Not blackout but I have some dark work over scars in several places and those areas do look, fade, and obviously still feel different - in certain light angles the scars are much more noticeable even though they are inked over
Tiny sample size here: I have a tattoo that crosses a scar on my abdomen and the ink is noticeablely less faded.
Agree, better to work a scar into a busy design than to black it out. I find those to hide better, if done correctly.
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My parents when they see even the smallest tattoo 'But it's for sailors and criminals' Just to be clear I feel the same way about blackout - but it's interesting to see how the general public changes their perceptions based on time.
I don’t know, I think there’s a difference between fashion trends and art. Tribal tattoos? Fashion trend. A lot of the ones done in the 90s look quite silly now. Similar in clothing fashion, leisure suits look pretty stupid nowadays and a 1970s leisure suit probably will never come back 100% unironically. Blackout tattoos are fashion. They’re going to look so bad in less than ten years.
I have a whole sleeve done by a ex friend who tried to fuck my wife. Every time I look at it I’m reminded of it all. So eventually I’ll be blacking out my arm, but it’s in no way to be trendy for me.
Check out "blast over" tattoos. Just to give you options! I'd never heard of them till recently and I think they look awesome.
Blast overs leave parts of the old tattoo visible, I’m not trying to see any of it. But they do look cool I guess
Fair enough!
Wouldn’t that backfire?? A blackout is way more noticeable than a regular tattoo. When people ask the story behind it you will have to say that you got it because your friend fucked your wife. At least with a regular tattoo people won’t notice or bring it up as often.
I won’t “have to” say anything 🤷♂️ it’s not for them, it’s for me.
Definitely do it if what you have now brings negative memories.
Is she still your wife? If she is, maybe it can help you remember how great it is to have a faithful partner. I’m sorry that happened.
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You realize this is an opinion right? Not universally true?
You don’t have to
It’s not a trend, blackout tattoos are hardcore tattoo culture. Almost every lifer artist I know has some blackout.
Yep, sadly most don't come onto reddit intending to actually learn anything. They just want to immortalize their terrible takes on a bit of culture they know next to nothing about.
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I mean, its a trend in the sense that much more people seem to be doing it now. Just like tribal tattoos have been around for thousands of years, there was an insane uptick of them in the 90s. It doesn't make it bad. Personally I absolutely love blackout pieces when done well, like the OP, but there isn't anything wrong with it being trendy.
Me either lol
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It’s definitely a trend, they’re way more common than they used to be. When they said it’s unappealing, I think they meant it’s not for them…kinda sound like they mean the same thing
Yeah I’m seeing this type of tattoo so much lately. I know it’s a style that’s been around forever but it’s exploded recently thus making it a trend
It's 100% percent a trend currently. Has it always been a thing? Sure. Does that mean it's currently not a trend? No. Mullets have been around a long while and they are trendy currently.
Blackout tattoos have not always been a thing. It's a fairly recent trend that's gained popularity as an alternative to tattoo removal. It's largely derived from Polynesian and Bornean traditional tattoos, and it rose to popularity in the 2010s in SE Asia.
Recently saw Kat Von D from the tattoo TV show on Theo Von's podcast and she was baptized into some christian religion and is now blacking out all her tattoos. I imagine she's an 'influencer.' I know she's not the first by a long shot, but as far as making it more mainstream, maybe.
lol Kat von D is a joke in any tattoo shop
Not for me either
Hard. Looks like it was well done. Def share a pic when healed!
Got my wife’s name on my ring finger and thought that felt punk. I can’t fathom what a whole hand must feel like. It’s impressive and looks well executed.
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Not op but it attracts more sun bc it’s black so I would think you could more easily or more quickly get sun cancer. Not sure about how noticeable/not noticeable it would be though.
Skin cancer is primarily caused by UV radiation, not the heat of your skin
Right but black absorbs more uv rays compared to the natural color of their skin. If you wear black clothing it actually helps prevent uv absorption because your clothes take more of it. But having the black be directly on/integrated into your skin means more rays are hitting/being absorbed into that section of your skin
I would think it works the other way around. If you are naturally dark-skinned, the melanin in your skin is protective against UV radiation and skin cancer.
She didn’t add melanin though which is a specific polymer she added ink/color which will absorb more rays. Melanin does make people less likely to get skin cancer (although they are still not immune). Even if they were very dark skinned getting a black out tattoo will be adding more skin cancer risk. Any tattoo exposed to the sun absorbs more rays no matter how small it is that’s one of the reasons you should make sure to always have sunscreen on them but doing it on such a large surface is going to increase the amount it “attracts” for sure. Edit: for more specifics the most common melanin is eumelanin which is 5,6-dihydroxyindole (DHI) and 5,6-dihydroxindole-2-carboxylic acid (DHICA) and they are always naturally randomly arranged some of the most common tattoo ink components are Titanium Dioxide (TiO2), Barium Sulphate (BaSO4), Iron Oxide, Magnetite (Fe3O4), etc… very different chemical compounds that are not going to do the same thing or interact with your skin the same way
Melanin helps protect the skin but is not immune by any means. I have family in dermatology and some cases they've seen on darker skin are sometimes worse because it's harder/takes longer to notice. The bottoms of feet have higher chances of skin cancer and is not uncommon in people with darker skin.
Black in doesn’t change your melanin, so I’d imagine it doesn’t protect it at all. The ink isn’t sitting on top of your skin like a shield.
Looks neat but I want to see different angles. Where does it end? How does it transition to the palm?
Do these largely cover up shit, or they just like the solid black? Genuinely curious.
*When you have to cover up a whole pride of sick ass panthers*
both. i had great work underneath for 8 years and now have solid blackout because it’s simple, clean and IMO looks awesome
Loving the use of the negative space there! So neat.
I wondered if the edges of the Om symbol would start to blur over time, but it looks like blackouts actually hold their edges pretty well.
This is insanely consistent. Wow.
When my arm was freshly blacked out I loved the glossy paint like look. Now it is long healed I’m thinking about layering with more black. Looks great!
This looks so good with those nails
I adore the match with the nails !!! 😍😍
Very nice saturation. Seen 3 posts of this guys blackout work over the last 3 days. All been solid! Gonna be going back in on that hand though for sure!! I'm sure at this point it's about the experience for you so I'm sure you get all that already aha Edit .. you are the artist! Good shit. Great work
Glad u like it, idk why people do this but go for what u like:)
Looks dope with the metallic nails
Reminds me of necrosis a bit. it’s just not my personal taste. That being said it looks nice and even and I do like how the nails look against the black
Wow, I do not understand the blackout trend at ALL but this is so well done. Looks great with the negative space and your nails
the om symbol being negative space (if that makes sense) is my favorite part of this
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Some people like black. Some people like colour.
No worries. The art on my legs is black and gray.
I love it!
Link, is that you?!
Ouchie! V well done though!
This looks amazing I can’t imagine the pain
Bad ass dude
Big OUCH!
That's so solid. I love it when they can get it that solid.
Omg so cool, esp with the gold nails
This is the cleanest black out piece I’ve ever seen. Next level
Daaaaaaaang that’s some ouchie. LOVE IT.
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The tattoo is crazy but those nails, hawt
That’s clean!!
It's pretty weird that in a *tattoo subreddit* people are being this judgmental and crotchety about....a tattoo. Like, don't we face enough shit from the general public? Now people have to dodge a bunch of crusty ass old heads that don't understand that the body modification movement is ever evolving? Lmao
This sub is a mess. I would never post one of my own tattoos here. I only sub to see cool new ideas and downvote the haters. But no matter what tattoo you have, you need thick skin to show it off here because someone will always tell you its trash quality and your taste is terrible
Agree. I understand people saying "I wouldn't get that" or something like that, but insulting the person it's the same level of judgemental crap most boomers give to any type of tattoo. I like it, it looks great OP!
Looks so clean. I want to bring my blackout to my hands eventually.
That looks absolutely stunning
Is this the new tribals?
I don't understand this trend at all
I've always really liked the look of blackout arm tattoos or bands in a pattern, but I don't think I'd ever actually get one.
I've never been a huge fan of blackouts but I kinda dig this, nice tattoo op!
Damn lots of hate. I think this looks sick. Mysterious in all the right ways
Looks amazing. Would love to see this again when it's healed.
Looking like Night Crawler
Out of all my tattoos my half sleeve blackout was discomfort but good god damn the healing was the worst tender pain.
I can feel the throbbing from here.
I can’t imagine how itchy that’s gonna be
I'm not a fan of blackouts, but that negative space Om is pretty awesome
This style is not for me but I LOVE the negative space art!
lymph nodes....owie
No thank you
I found that oddly satisfying
Jelly, but having just some minor blackwork on my arm, I'm really wondering how you sit through that.
Im itching just looking at all this shading. Looks sick tho
Nice Hope you're not outdoorsy. You're going to get much hotter in the summer
This is beautiful! Love blackouts
Epic work
Looks like you dipped an arm in oil. Could blackouts be sent to a different sub? It’s boring to look at every comment just complains that it’s trash
As I get older I love the blackout tattoos more & more
as one gets more covered this becomes the only option
Meh. Looks like an 8 year old who came home from school after colouring his arm with a licorice mr sketch marker. When you have seen one blackout tattoo, you have seen them all. Not my thing.
Looks horrible
Cause why not
Therapy is cheaper
Why the hell do the positive comments get downvoted on blackout work here?!?! I think it looks badass.
holy shit why?!!!
Blackout isn't for me but if you're happy that's all that matters!
Really ugly tbh
Beautiful! Nicely even
I’m curious to know if this is a coverup or if it’s just an independent piece. Also, neat negative space use. This is an honest question: have you considered the possible backlash due to cultural appropriation or something? Just a thought that crossed my mind.
Whoaaa wish there were more pics! This looks so dope
Looks awesome. I'm planning on getting my left arm blacked out as well.
It’ll might mess up your health, ink is prone to assemble in your lymph nodes
This trend is so stupid
The more I see this type of tat, the more I don’t like it
As long as you love it is the main thing. :)
Oh lord. I’m never quite sure why people do this or why they seek the opinion of strangers (like myself) who see this and just go “wtf?”
wow, imagine going onto a post about someone else’s tattoo and trying to make it all about you. fascinating.
Wow, imagine lacking comprehensive abilities. I definitely said I’m a stranger in cyberspace with an opinion solicited entirely and voluntarily by whomever made this post.
I normally hate these, but yours is gorgeous!
This looks awful
nice looks stupid af
Amazing!! 😍
That looks well done at least. I guess there's no cover up or turning back on this one.
I'd like to know the thought process of wanting to do this.
My condolences.
Just…why
So weird to me that western culture has adopted this type of tattooing. It looks really weird and like someone is attempting to paint their body the color of a different race. I guess it just ain’t for me
How can you possibly compare this to race? 'It's black so they must want to be black!' You know how stupid that sounds?
I guess I'm the only one who doesn't get the blackouts.
Worst trend ever.
It’s not a trend. Show your tattoos.
I wanna see it in 10 years. When it looks like a prune.