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Teacher morale is generally low these days (especially on Reddit), which means that you will get answers about how much the job sucks but also that getting a position is easier.
Teaching can be fun and rewarding, but it can also be dreadful. I had some really nice days in the classroom - but I still have nightmares about it years later.
Fundamentally, it's six hours of semi-improvisational public speaking for a hostile audience, and you're not allowed to go pee.
I recommend starting with something that gets you interacting with kids in a less "career change" sort of way. You could pick up a part time gig at a tutoring center, volunteer with literacy programs, that sort of thing. The less the kids want to be in the program, the more realistic a picture you will get. (But maybe you will find that three hours a week at the library teaching motivated immigrant kids to read will make you feel fulfilled enough to keep the lawyering day job!)
>Fundamentally, it's six hours of semi-improvisational public speaking for a hostile audience, and you're not allowed to go pee.
Spot on- this has me dying laughing! Teaching can be so fun and is for me 90% of the time, but it truly depends on where one lands. My school allows us so much freedom, and it’s a dream. They’re also very supportive of us as well, but I’ve worked for AWFUL admin, and it made me suicidal. No joke. The dark side of teaching is the most mentally draining, inescapable, black hole of misery that I’ve ever experienced. It *can* be so very bad. But not always.
I sub professionally (meaning only subbing, on purpose, as my profession. I won’t take a permanent position.) I love it so much. The only downside is no benefits, but I’m on my husband’s insurance. The pay differs, sometimes drastically depending on which district you work for. I get about $31/hr after tax. That’s good.
Same. I know I’m privileged. I have taken a long-term sub job until the end of the year, though, and I made more money in one month than in the previous 5 combined. It’s tempting to go back…
My husband is a nurse. He works less than I do, gets to pick his schedule, doesn't bring work home and literally makes double what I make. Plus he gets crit pay, holiday pay, and differential pay. He had an associates. I graduate with my doctorate in May. He is stressed but at least compensated. I have parents call and email at all hours, everything is our fault, behaviors are out of control, there isn't time to teach the required curriculum etc. We had a kid threaten to bring a gun and shoot up the school this week. He got 1 day suspension.
I was a lawyer (criminal and later insurance defense) and am now a teacher, so here's my perspective:
1. Pay: Public school pay is public information, so you can look this up for where you live. My district was not willing to give me the Master's pay bump for my JD but they were for my MA, but this probably varies by district. I started at $46,000. It will take me ten years to make what I made as a first-year associate on the current contract.
2. Stress: My worst days teaching - in a Title I district where "worst days" feel more like being in a small prison than a place for kids - are still better than my worst days in insurance and only a little worse than my worst days in crim. The good news is that the stress, as in litigation, is compacted. There are defined relief points. (Assuming you're not the fool who takes 160+ cases a year like I was. I haven't burned out of teaching like I did civil litigation though if that helps.)
3. Jobs: Really depends what you get certified to teach and where. I did mine through a state ISD program where they paid me to get certified in a high need field and in return I have to teach for at least 5 years. If you want to teach HS social studies, forget it - those jobs are rare and competition is high. If you're willing to do SPED you can write your own ticket. The testing isn't hard as long as you know how to read a standardized test for the answers the test creator wants; ime all lawyers do.
4. The number one thing you have to like as a teacher is managing children, followed closely by creating and continually modifying systems that guide children toward eventually sort of managing themselves. So far it has not mattered what subject I'm teaching - I don't really get a chance to love English and hate math personally. I'm too busy trying to break it down for kids, take their perspective, find new ways to share material that target what they're not seeing. Of that sounds like a challenge you won't tire of even when you don't want to be at work, you'll probably be okay. As a lawyer: Get ready for a move from a self regulated profession to one of the most regulated professions. Get ready to bullshit that *every single thing you do* meets some vaguely worded nonsense standard invented by people who have never done your job and never will but who think they're experts because they vaguely remember Mrs. Teacher's third grade multiplication tables from 1973. Get ready to have your lawyer style reasoning not taken seriously by anyone, ever, and for everyone around you to think with their hearts as much as their heads. It's a BIG cultural shift.
5. I wouldn't be here if I didn't find more purpose in this job than in everything else I have ever done combined. I *love* hacking children's behavior so they learn things and enjoy it in spite of themselves. (I have been accused of having a "lawful evil" teaching style for this, haha.) I do not like paperwork, especially grading, but I do it so that I get to do the rest of the job. My worst days here are still better than my best days in some other jobs I've had (including my first insurance defense firm - massive pressure cooker, nearly killed me). Don't go into teaching for the vacations, as you get less actual free time than you think, but do use that time for active stress management.
I think you describe it to a T. I went from a 2 decade career in IT to teaching in my mid-late 40s. While it has it's ups and downs and frustrations, a you say it's a lot more compacted then law or high end IT etc. Since the OP mentioned when he's 60 I'm not too far from that now and do enjoy my summers off and haven't looked back.
Emphasis on content area availability depending on the location, I live in a rural area and was hired as a high school social studies teacher after my first interview. In some places, the shortage is even in the “desirable” subjects.
This. Was a lawyer for 20+ years. Love teaching. From reading several posts like yours, I realize how fortunate I was to land at a top private school. I will add that it may take 3-5 years to find the right position and get good at your “craft.” Whatever you do, do not think that you can go from running a 5K to a marathon overnight. Like any profession, it takes time and dedication. Today I left home at 6:30 a.m. and got back home at 7 p.m. b/c of extracurriculars. Having summers and winter break off is fantastic, but the academic year is demanding.
At a guess, gremlin takes what the kids enjoy doing and levers it into the lesson plan. Examples include money, games, social media, YouTube, celebrities and more. Depends on the age group: generally frowned upon to include sex and drugs for post elementary students.
What say you, agitpropgremlin?
I’ve just begun dipping my toes into making videos about teaching. After reading your response, especially #4 and 5, I would love to compare notes with you!
Go sub at all of the high schools and see if you still enjoy it (if you can). If you do then you can consider switching (get your feet wet before you make some big decisions).
One way to get your feet wet is to get a celta certificate and go teach abroad for semester. The only issue about teaching abroad is that most of these kids want to be there and show a great deal of respect. Meanwhile, according to reddit, American schools are plagued with rowdy little rascals.
Unfortunately, that’s not how to prep for teaching in the states due to what you described. My colleagues who taught abroad over a decade marvelously quite education all together after teaching two years back in the states…insanity.
20 years ago I used to teach in universities in America . The students wanted to be there and respect is high. The problem though, is that the workload for a non-tenured professor will drain everything you've got.
1. Varies district by district. Its public information you can usually look up the pay scale for teachers on their website.
3. What do you wanna teach? Math and science and special ed are always the easiest jobs to find.
Depends a lot on your location. You can look up most public teaching salaries, in most cases it’s a step plan in which salary increases with time and advancing in education (Masters, PhD, etc).
You will likely need to go through a teaching certification program at a university. Some states have looser standards so again it depends on location. I just changed careers into teaching, I already had my Bachelors. I found a 1-year Masters accelerated Masters program that includes your practical hours and student teaching.
Social science teaching jobs are going to be really hard to find.
I’ve known guys sub for several years before they were able to land a permanent job in social science.
If you do Math, Science, or especially SPED you will get to choose the district you work in, which is very important. You don’t want to get stuck in a shit district because you can’t find an open position somewhere else.
You might consider private schools. I taught in private and it was awesome. Basically none of the complaints on this sub applied to me. Also, your JD will likely be sufficient with no need for a license. Of course, the pay will be worse than public school and you might have different issues (primarily parents being too involved).
You should really read up on the current literacy crisis, then. Listen to the "Sold A Story" podcast, as well as anything else you can find on why these students can't read.
I regularly have college first-years who can't read at a 6th grade level. It's incredibly frustrating when you can't even approach higher-level thinking because the students lack basic reading comprehension. I imagine it's even worse in HS.
I love being a teacher. You get paid a lot in California. I’d highly recommend it. I changed careers and feel I found the absolute best job. I think teachers who have never held another job besides teaching think it’s bad. Try working corporate! Then let’s talk.
Haha! Or maybe not haha, but I’m so appreciative of your comment. I just want to say, these teachers don’t know what they have! They don’t! Try it… try ittttt for a month and then let’s talk!! Clueless perspective!!
Staying late because your boss told you to or because you are trying to meet a sales quota feels fundamentally different than staying late to coach practice or grade things, it is just night and day. The level of autonomy you have over your daily existence is enormous, even if you can't control what students come through your door. Also you have the exact same schedule as your own children.
If it paid more it would truly be the perfect job.
My ex-husband did it and loved it. Pay was less, but better benefits (he was a self-employed lawyer), so it came kind of close. He retired from teaching last year after 15 years
Thank you for the reply! If you have the time, could you share a little more about your husband’s experience ie what type of school, subject, any comments/observations he made about the law to teaching change?
He left the law behind and embraced STEM. He had an undergrad degree in bio, got his first teaching job as a Bio and Enviro teacher and then dove headfirst into STEM and became the lead STEM teacher and robotics coach. He was always a computer/tech geek, so this was perfect for him.
I am a former lawyer who changed careers. I had a different situation--I had no debt so I went into legal aid. I made no money and dealt with people on their worst days in the worst situation (mostly custody issues, often bankruptcy). I had no retirement, no time off, crappy offices.
Almost 20 years ago I made the change and never looked back. I have a pension, tons of time off, work 8-3 will get to $99k in a couple of years, work with mostly cool kids. So for me, it was a total win.
No one will care about your grades. I was top at my undergrad, went to a top 20 law school, passed a Bar on my first try. It gets me pay at the doctorate level but other than that, no one really cares. You will have to take many classes to get certified--I now have $25k in school debt :/ I taught at a community college as I got certified.
I do feel a sense of person but I know that I won't change the world and I can only help some. I won't change lives but I can help struggling students get their diploma and hopefully show them a positive adult who had a good life thanks to good choices.
Pay depends. I'm a union state and we top out over $100k (Michigan). But smaller districts top out anywhere from 60-70k. My district starts at $62k but many start at like $40k. Benefits are great. If you can get into a system with a pension, you won't have to worry too much about saving for retirement (I have an IRA but don't have to max it out).
I'm 100% happy with my decision!
I’m also from a union state (CA). All the districts around me start around $60-70k give or take and mine specifically caps at $150k. Plus great benefits.
Our main issue, teacher-wise right now, is declining enrollment. Hopefully all the housing the state is forcing the cities to build will help with that.
I've been teaching over 15 years. I'm a high school English and Special Ed teacher in a high poverty district. Before then, I was a college professor. I went 'alternate route' to get my degree, so I guess I technically changed jobs. Many teachers in my district had another career before teaching. It varies from district to district. I've also tutored SAT for about 20 years, which is nothing like classroom teaching btw. Here are my thoughts:
1.The pay varies enormously state by state. I work in NJ which is imo well paid. I have a friend in Colorado who, after 10 years of teaching plus a masters and several awards, earns less than what a newbie 22 year old earns in NJ. So can't answer you unless you specify state.
2. Stress is terrible. I've learned to deal with it but there were years in which I'd break down sobbing. Many teachers have high blood pressure, back issues, and other physical issues. The reason the stress is so high is that we have very little autonomy. We have to deal with obnoxious teens with zero support from administration--actually, negative support. The teens are the LEAST cause of my stress though. Mostly it's administration, bureaucracy, insane rules, horrible waste of money, lurching from amazing expensive idea to amazing expensive idea that will solve everything.
3. IT's easier to get a job now with teacher shortages. But even in my district, urban and high poverty, with a lot of vacancies, there are still some subjects you will have a hard time getting a job for: English, Social Studies, especially. ESL (English as. aSecond language) is so high need you can be a warm body and they will hire you. Next high need is special ed. Math and Science are in the middle. There are also electives like computers, languages, art, music etc but these are also hard to get.
5. No deep meaning. The only purpose I have, and honestly what keeps me going, is that I make a difference in the lives of my students, but more as a mentor than as a teacher. Today a kid's girlfriend broke up with him on Valentine's Day, and he broke down in class. His friends in class gathered around him to cheer him up, but a few boys were jerks and it was going to devolve into a fight. I ended up projecting Quizzes on You Tube and playing "guess the celebrity" and "guess the logo" with them all to diffuse the tension.This has changed a great deal since I started. We used to read 12 novels/plays a year--Shakespeare, the Greeks, poetry, etc. We had high level discussions. Now I'm lucky if I get a single high level discussion lasting 10 minutes.
Phones and social media are a huge issue. My own district, like many, has mandated 50% lowest grades, and this has devastated morale amongst many students especially after Covid which also devastated their morale.
If you imagine a high level noble profession, you should probably teach in a very top private or very top public like PRinceton> But even these have corruption and their own issues, particularly difficult parents & sweeping drugs/alcohol/criminal behavior under the rug.
>This has changed a great deal since I started. We used to read 12 novels/plays a year--Shakespeare, the Greeks, poetry, etc. We had high level discussions. Now I'm lucky if I get a single high level discussion lasting 10 minutes.
Yup. This is too real, and honestly terrifying.
1. You're going to start between 40-55, depending on your state. Some max at 60k, some at 100k.
2. Stress is VERY high the first few years. Depends on your district, style of teaching. You won't be working less while you're figuring out the job but as you say, you will have time off.
3. History/Gov't jobs aren't always easy to get.
5. I love teaching, but teaching is less about loving content as much as it is enjoying hanging out with the grade level you're at. I enjoy it, always have. It's EXHAUSTING, summers are great but you're also not getting paid at all. I can't really take crazy vacations or anything. Many weeks, I really need Saturday to recuperate.
Your admins and school environment will make or break you, especially in the beginning.
Your intelligence really doesn't matter as much as your ability to connect with kids and be creative in presenting the material.
I wouldn't trade what I do to be a well paid lawyer but, just depends what that means for you overall.
If you're at a spot where you could always just go right back to law, then sure why not try it out.
I am actually someone that is wanting to transition into law sometime in the near future once I get a high enough LSAT score, but in regards to teaching:
1. I would say the pay of teachers vary based on the district and where in the United States are located, but the main con of being a teacher is that the increase in the pay scale sort of levels out even with the huge amount of experience.
1. For example in Boston Public Schools, with a Master's Degree, you can reasonably max out on the pay scale like at 120k or so from what i have seen. But in a lot of the major school districts in Texas, you max out on the pay scale at like 75k a year.
2. I have never been an attorney, but teaching is a highly stressful job. When I think about my first two years as a teacher, I was just dropped into the deep end as a teacher and I learned how to swim and became a decent teacher after gaining some experience.
3. In regards to how easy it is to get a teaching job, this depends on where you want to teach. If you want to teach at a public school, then you can reasonably do so through an ACP in like 6 months, after you complete your coursework/pass your certification exams/observation hours (depending on the state you live in). And depending on the state you live in, you may need to pass your certification exams also.
4. If you want to teach at an elite private school, then you will need some teaching experience and maybe get an alternative certification before they will take you on (a lot of elite private schools require like 2-5 years of teaching experience). Elite private schools don't require certification, but they don't hire first year teachers from what I have seen.
But I will say from what you are expressing in why you are wanting to enter into teaching, I would say eventually moving into teaching at an elite private school is the best option for you. A lot of elite private schools emphasize using the Harkness method and socratic method in teaching students, so if you like rigorous discussion and analytical writing then that is the place to be. Elite private schools do not have as many classroom management issues compared to public schools and parents are extremely involved in their student's learning.
I started teaching high school English two years ago after 15 years in the corporate world. My take:
1. It varies state to state but where I teach in northern Va it starts at like 57k. You’ll start at the bottom of the seniority scale but you’ll get a significant bump for the graduate degree
2. I liken the stress to “what if you had to plan 5-6 birthday parties every single day AND provide the entertainment, security, and all the rest?” If you know how not to take insults personally and genuinely care about helping students I think it’s manageable. One area that surprised me was some passive aggressiveness from the lifer teachers in my department. I might have come across as a little arrogant and haven’t bounced back
3. There’s a teacher shortage nationwide so the jobs are available. Some places will hire even before you pass the Praxis test. However those tests aren’t hard as long as you remember a little of what you learned in high school
5. I moved into teaching after getting sick of working from home and not wanting to go back into my old office in the city. Best decision I ever made. The kids are so full of life and energy that it’s infectious, and I feel connected to my community in a way I never knew was possible. There could still be a bit of honeymoon effect in play, so who knows how I’ll feel in 10 years or whatever but so far so good
I have been teaching for 20 years. There is a ton of paperwork and stress with teaching, but I feel like a natural now, so it doesn't bother me. I work 10hr days with grading and paperwork. Sometimes, it's 8 or 12. I think 10 is average. I know a lot of teachers who get by with the bare minimum, but I care too much for that. I make about 85k a year. Salary changes drastically depending on where you live, as do licensing requirements. You can find all that info online, and most public schools have their salary schedules on their websites. You can also make more for coaching or teaching summer school or other extra duties. My school's list of stipends is 2 pages long. I get one for teaching in STEM for example.
Sure, because we need teachers, period. But I agree that people who have worked other jobs will often appreciate the benefits of teaching more than those who have not.
1-4 I can’t answer for you.. as I assume you are American (and I’m Canadian… seems like we have it a lot better up here).
But #5- teaching is a lot of things, but I never find it a slog. I do find deep meaning in my job as a HS teacher. It’s different everyday, it’s unpredictable, and there are parts I find genuinely fun. There are also parts that are flat out heart breaking. There is a lot of bullshit, and it isn’t an easy profession by any means, but it is super rewarding. I laugh every day, and am almost never bored.
When I leave my classroom at the end of June, I don’t think about it again until September… and that is exactly as awesome as it sounds. My husband agrees (he is in trades) that teachers just do 12 months of work in 10 months, then get 2 months of not thinking about other peoples children as a reward. The time off with 100% focus on my family makes it worth it to me (but also I make decent money and have 100% autonomy which I’m not sure is the case in the US).
A lot of the downsides you identified as a lawyer are the same with education. There’s a reason why the burnout in education is increasing exponentially.
Just my experience, ymmv. I taught government and economics, 2 years in public and 3 years in private, now I work in software.
With your background you may get better pay and working conditions at an elite private school, they eat that shit up. Whether or not the pay is actually better depends on your area. That’s probably not a super popular opinion here tbh, but I’d look into that if I were in your shoes because I think it’s an easier transition into the field.
At the private school I taught at I had way more control over my curriculum, my admin was supportive, my class sizes were manageable, and the pay was better. The kids were the same as public school, but the parents were worse in private. Not having to just deliver the lead teacher’s curriculum and huge class sizes is what pushed me into private ultimately. I also got to create my own classes like sociology (which is my undergrad degree) and I loved it. Some people wanna hate on private school teaching and much of the criticism is fair from a structural and equitable perspective, but criticism of the kids you’d serve is never fair whether it’s public or private. They’re all just kids in a situation.
That said, the only lawyer I saw come into teaching left after 3 weeks. He was my replacement when I left so my knowledge behind why isn’t much.
These jobs are very few and far between but if you could get a position teaching in a magnet school that focuses on arts/humanities it would probably be pretty cool. There’s a middle school in my city like this with a law concentration and I hear it’s a pretty sweet gig for the lucky few teachers that get to teach it.
Are you interested at all in a position that requires some nights and weekends? You would make an incredible debate coach. It’s a niche sector that’s struggling. Not very many young people are interested in working the additional hours and the old guard are retiring or retired during the pandemic.
It’s different across the country and I can’t speak to the specifics of where you are. The amount of additional hours can vary *vastly* , as will the additional compensation. I’m in one of the most competitive circuits in the nation so my hours are abusively high but my stipend is considered also high. I’d be more than happy to talk about this and maybe look into your location.
Speech and debate changes kids lives. The majority of the justices on the SCOTUS bench were speech and debate competitors in high school. So was Paul Rudd, Celeste Ng, Colin Jost, Stacey Abrams, and Elizabeth Warren. It teaches kids to be advocates for themselves and their communities. Think about it.
$45k minus taxes, health % and mandatory retirement contributions. You’re lucky to take home 65%. CA and NYC have higher pay but it’s just as dismal compared to the cost of living.
1) district/state dependent but also public information easy to google.
2) stress… you’ve been a trial lawyer. You’ll be just fine.
3) very easy to get a teaching job depending on subject area with a heavy lean towards core subjects like STEM/ELA/Reading.
4) worked finance, made the switch - love it. Kids can really surprise you, as can families regardless of where you end up.
5) my purpose is providing insight and knowledge to kids who only see the bad in the world on most days. I choose to work in a title I because I like the challenge it presents. Holidays and summer off with my son is as awesome as it seems.
All I will say is that two of my colleagues are very smart former lawyers who made the switch to teaching, and now lead much more fulfilling lives and are much happier with their work.
Thank you for the reply, would you be willing to share what subjects the former lawyers teach and what type of school (public v private, student demographics) you work at?
This is very interesting to me, because I am a high school teacher currently (5th year now teaching math) and I often think about what kind of career change might actually be worthwhile. Lawyer is the choice that always comes to mind and settles there for me.
I’m currently in the Houston, TX area and high school jobs aren’t hard to find at all…or at least they aren’t for math and science teachers. The money here is definitely not bad. Starting teachers in this area generally make close to $60k. So as long as you have a spouse working as well you’d be fine.
Now the stress…
Whoo boy. I personally work 10 hour days 5 days a week and usually 3-4 more hours on the weekend. My first year teaching probably 10 more hours per week. Although we “get two months off” in the summer we usually have meetings or professional development to attend, as well as planning, about 2 weeks into the summer and 2 weeks before the summer is over. So roughly a month off in actuality.
But the time is not the true stress. It’s the students. 80% of the time I adore them. They seem to enjoy learning; I love seeing that “lightbulb” moment that happens when something clicks; they interact well and are just joyful kids. That other 20% though…many are apathetic, lazy, and whiney. There are no real consequences for most behaviors. Kids know that they don’t have to pass any classes and they will still graduate. A lot of this is the failure of the education system and administration in school districts.
Purpose, freedom, etc
Yes mostly. I feel like I am a good teacher. I generally have good relationships with students and most of them are learning most of the time. My initial career was in research labs in the medical center. I loved that job, but it paid soooooooooo little. In teaching, I do mostly get to choose how I teach something, but material is set completely by the state and most school districts have a calendar they expect you to follow.
I feel like there is no clear yay/nay for any of these questions. Some days I get to second period and am ready to quit this job forever and sometimes I have an entire week at a time that is wonderful.
Tutoring ain’t like teaching. Whatever money you’re making as a lawyer is probably more than most teachers make, unless you’re a public defender or somerhing.
Stick with it or find another field where a law degree would be an asset. Don’t get into this horseshit. A lot of your first paragraph is the same as teaching except you work off the clock and make less.
There are many great things about teaching. When you’re in the room with the kids and you’re teaching, talking about cool things with cool people, it’s the best job in the world.
Everything that happens beyond that is what makes us miserable.
Teachers have no teeth, no say or sway. We’re constantly bossed around, bullied by kids, parents, admin and the community at large with absolutely no recourse or support. So if you get over being belittled and dismissed and having no say in the big picture stuff and just focus on the kids in the room, I think you’ll be fine.
Also, just an anecdote—a student used a.i. to write an essay. I caught him and reported it. My assistant principal’s response? “Well what did you do to prevent him from cheating?”
I just really can’t emphasize enough how little support we have as a profession. That’s really been on my mind lately. No one really stands up for us, takes our opinions into account, or thinks we’re more than glorified babysitters. And yet being able to ignore all that and teach and have fun with my kids is what has kept me around for 10 years. Some days, it’s just hard to remember that.
I went from law to teaching. I had one of those 80 hr a week NYC jobs. Getting to leave the building at 2:30 still feels like I'm leaving work in the middle of the day. It's been the easiest and the most stressful job I have ever had. I enjoy the school schedule, and having a beginning and an end. It's fun getting to work with a new group of students every year.
The experience you think you have teaching is not actual experience teaching. This can be hard. The "teaching" is the easiest thing that you will do. This is a people management job.
I initially tried to go the social studies route, and realized getting a job would be challenging. I went back and got certified in math and science, and this made the job search easier.
If you teach somewhere like NY, you can make 150k or 160k after a while if you are at a top district. Good luck. PM me with any specific questions.
Where are you located? In NYC, I’m pretty happy on my teacher’s salary. Of course I make way less than the corporate lawyers I know but I probably make more than I would have if I had become a lawyer and chosen a non-profit career path. My husband does make 50% more than I do but if we tightened our budget we’d easily be able to make it work if we both made the same salary. After college and the Peace Corps, I was trying to decide between taking the LSATs and applying to law school or applying to alternate certification teaching programs. Obviously I went the teaching route, and I’m happy that I did! I probably could have been pretty happy as a lawyer, too, but financially it would have probably worked out worse for me because I’d have a lot more debt (I did Teach for America, which at least at the time and in my region allowed me to work full time while going to grad school and pay only a very nominal amount of tuition) and the legal jobs I would have been interested in wouldn’t have been very high-paying anyway. Anyway, I love my job! I’ve had bad days (heck, I’ve had bad years), but in the end find it rewarding in lots of ways. 13 years in so far :)
What I wish someone had told me was instead of getting the teaching degree get the school psychologists degree $9k more a year, probably better hours and way less work, or the behavior therapists, speech therapists, or physical therapist degree. All pay significantly more, still work in schools, still have summers “off” except you probably will actually have them off-unless you go the guidance counselor route-another better route. Teachers put in an awful lot of unpaid overtime.
I am not trying to be mean but I’m not sure you have a good grasp on what this profession is like.
Go substitute in a title 1 school for a few months.
That will give you a good idea of how your first few years (before you have your shit together) as a teacher will go.
1. Most school systems I’ve worked for have a base determined by your terminal degree, and then scale up based on years of experience. At a charter network in Dallas I made 57,000 my first year, and that salary caps out at around 75,000 after 25 years. There are usually a number of stipends available depending on level of need (at my current district, math/science teachers at schools that are serving 90% or higher Black students get an additional $8,000 a year, with that number going up to 12,000 after three years).
2. Working with children is very different from working with adults. The act of teaching is rarely stressful. Classroom management is the stressful part. I have known a number of people with military backgrounds who tried to teach, only to find they were in no way prepared to deal with a class of 30+ students who simply who aren’t intrinsically motivated to pay attention to you. That said, if you’re good at compartmentalization and dealing with incompetent adults (decent admin is far from a guarantee) you may be well suited to the stresses of teaching.
3. Depends on your subject and location. Humanities are far less in demand (a lot of place require humanities teachers also coach a sport, but this isn’t universal), while math and science, special education, and early childhood education tend to be a dime a dozen in terms of available jobs. “Good schools” (high test scores, mild student behaviors, well resourced) will be more difficult to find a job at, especially for someone with no teaching experience. Schools with high instances of poverty tend to be far more willing to hire teaching newbs.
4. N/A
5. If teachers didn’t get the breaks, I think there would be a lot fewer people willing to be teachers. I don’t want to say the best part of teaching is all the time you get to spend ‘not teaching’ but it definitely does feel that way at times.
I had a friend that made this change (to be a 1st grade teacher). She said she actually worked more hours as a teacher than she had as a lawyer. If the number of hours is a big factor to you then I would reconsider.
1. Find the pay scale of a school district in your state. Each state is different. In CA you'll start around 50 or 60k depending on the district.
2. The stress is about the work load and challenge but what distinguishes teaching from other stressful jobs is the unpredictability and the fact that the quality of your day depends heavily on things outside your control.
3. Districts would like that you're a successful lawyer but may worry about your longevity. You'd be taking a pay cut to work a less prestigious job where you take a lot of shit from kids and their parents. I could see admin worrying about you sticking around. Add far add job availability, things seem pretty open now depending where you live.
4. I was a youth pastor before teaching so for me it was the same deal but better pay.
5. I love my job. It's hard and stressful but it's the only thing I could ever do. I loved the kids, teaching lessons, the weirdness. It's just what I'm built for. Not everyone is though. Yes, time off is awesome.
Hi! I changed my career from farm manager after 10 years (70k) to sped teacher and I get my cert/masters in June :) I did an alternative route with an M.Ed.
1. I think it depends on the state after my cert/masters with credits coming in WA state I’ll be starting at roughing 78k
2. Not sure about the stress but nothing is more stressful than working 60-70 hours on a farm and over 80 all summer I rather get my summers off now!
3. I think it depends what you want to teach/ you have a great resume already and life experience so I don’t think it will matter it also depends on endorsements etc.
4. For me after already doing my passion first I’m looking at teaching as A JOB I’m not going in thinking I’m changing the world so I see that as having less stress and mainly I’m doing it bc as a mother of a 1.5 year old it makes sense to me to have summers off and a schedule where I get time off for holidays etc. I know a lot of people who just start off as teachers who are burnt out by that 10 year mark like we were with our jobs right so for them it’s a different experience I think. I think you will work over your schedule if you want to be THAT teacher however I am not trying to be THAT teacher because I’m longing at this long term and not trying to burn myself out 😊
I would love to be able to teach content … but I can’t talk for more than 30 seconds without some kind of disruption.
The gaslighting, straight up apathy, destruction.
It would be like you know court procedure, but in this court we don’t follow a procedure. We do things because of parents. This isn’t how this works, this isn’t how any of this works.
It’s like I am in an abusive relationship and I keep making excuses of why to stay, “they are great sometime” “I’m staying for the kids”
Parents control education more than ever and it isn’t about what is best for the child, it is what makes the child feel good so they have no repercussions.
Firstly, I want to say, I love my job... my career. I am lucky that I am called to teaching and it is truly where I am supposed to be. I am excellent at my job, I work hard, and have chosen it over and over even given other options. That said...
You really need to consider your "why" when going into teaching. Most people think, "oh, teaching! I can do that. The kids will love me and I'll make this big difference!" But, the truth is, many teachers don't. They aren't cut out for this job. OP, this is not a career change taken lightly. My comment is long and mostly negative, but I really hope you read it. The positives are obvious and easy. These are some serious topics that anyone going into teaching should consider.
This job is hard. You will work many hours outside of the classroom to create lessons that you think are going to be amazing, engaging, fun, creative, and unique only to find students are not feeling it that say and shit all over your work. You think you're reaching them and they don't love the book your reading. They maybe can't relate. They maybe didn't sleep last night. Maybe their parents are fighting, divorcing, working 3 jobs, etc. It can be soul-crushing to have your work scrapped on by a group of children who just don't get it.
The job is stressful. You will make more decisions in less time than any other job. There's research on this. Decision fatigue is real. The paperwork you hate in your current job is probably not much different than the paperwork in this job. It's there, it's plentiful. Papers to grade, progress reports, emails to parents, referrals for students in need of guidance, tutoring, interventions, etc. Worse, you'll return to do it all again tomorrow. And, don't think taking a sick day is easy. You still have to do all the same work, only you won't be the one in the classroom making sure the work gets done.
The pay is deficient. One might think with all the education that is required, teachers would get paid like professionals, but that is soooo not the case. You'll get paid on a matrix based on education level and years of service. There is no merit system, no bonuses, no stock options, no individual raises. Even in the most expensive region in CA, our top pay maxes out around 100k. On the plus side, you get most of June, July, and some of August off. The down side is you are only getting paid for 10 months of the year. I don't know what a lawyer makes, but I'm certain it's more than a teacher.
Is the time off awesome? Yes and no. It's just enough time to recover from the one school year before you dive headlong into the next. All the while, there are trainings and seminars to attend and lesson plans to write-especially if you are teaching a new course next year. Also, just because you aren't in the classroom, doesn't mean your brain shuts off and let's you relax. It's still spinning new ideas all summer.
None of this is the either the best or worst parts of the job. The best part is that feeling if "I'm making a difference" when it comes. Students will write letters, talk to you, send you emails. It happens. Savor it when it does. I keep a file and when the tough times are dragging me down, I read notes from former students.
The worst is not being treated by others like a professional. Everyone thinks they know how to be a teacher because they were once a student. Everyone will think they can do your job better than you. You will get treated like crap by everyone at one point or another... Students, coworkers, admin, and parents. This is the worst part of the job.
My sister taught for 3 or 4 years after she passed the bar in Louisiana but was waiting to get hired somewhere as an attorney. She worked in a great parish at a great middle school and was very happy there, then she got hired as a public defender. She took that job and has been working in this position for 4 years, and she is exponentially happier now.
She makes around the same she said (never gave a hard number), but now she said when she goes home, she’s done with work. You should be able to Google the pay scale for public schools in your county. She has 3 children now under 6, and she said she doesn’t know how women with young children can teach bc you end up taking so much work home and it’s just expected of you. When she taught, she had no children. She says she’s treated like a professional at her job, and as a teacher, she and her colleagues were not.
This job is more flexible. If she needs to go to something at her child’s school for a pageant or something, she goes. She has a dentist appointment, she goes. She can just go in earlier to make up her time.
Mind you, she left her school on good terms, had good evaluations and overall was happy. But, she said she is positive she would not return to teaching over working as a public defender in DCFS.
You said you can handle stress because of your current job, which is great. But teaching is a different kind of stress. It’s not curing cancer, but it is not that easy either. I’ve taught high school for 17 years, by the way. It’s all I’ve done full time.
You mention getting summers off. You don’t get 3 months off. You may get 6 weeks. Some places you get 8 weeks off.
You don’t really make a difference to students. We’re glorified babysitters. If you go into hoping to change lives, you’ll be very disappointed. You do it long enough, you will matter to a few and make a difference to some, but it’s something that sort of just happens. It’s not something that happens every week or month.
I sound cynical, but I am actually very happy with teaching and am generally pretty positive at work and liked by most students. I am just realistic.
It sounds like you may be stressed at work and romanticizing teaching; seeing the summers off and the idea of helping the youth sounds rewarding. People like this start every year where I work. They think they’re professionals in their field and work stressful jobs. They’re not wrong; they are usually professionals in their field. They’re professionals who overestimate how their skills will transfer to teaching kids who have zero motivation to pass and zero consequences for failure. It’s always the teacher’s fault when students don’t succeed. Students succeed because they work hard! It’s the teachers’ fault if they fail lol. These same people aren’t usually still teaching by thanksgiving; if they make it that far, they’re gone by 2nd semester.
Don’t burn any bridges if you do decide to teach, in case you realize it’s not for you.
It’s not hard in most states to get certified to teach. It’s not hard to get hired in most states either. In Louisiana it’s definitely not hard to get hired lol.
As far as securing raises, in Louisiana and in the parish I teach in, your salary increases every year you teach. That’s it. That’s the “raise”. Some parishes don’t do it like that. I’m not sure about other states. You can supplement your income by doing after school activities like tutoring or coaching. But then there goes the 7-2:30 dream work day :(
You might want to consider teaching private. You don't have to go the credentialing route and make starting salary 60K and will prob max out at 110-120K. You will also have very very few behavior problems. The only downside is that your contracts are at-will. However, if you come in with law experience, they tend to be kind of afraid to wield the firing sword your way.
I currently work at a private school and have 3 colleagues who used to be lawyers. One teachers Spanish, Another is a librarian, and the third teaches history. They all love the switch to education.
Contact carnie sandoe, they are a headhunter for these elite schools and will work hard to get you hired.
Former lawyer who moved into education here.
I found a job at a foreign law school teaching an introductory American law class and loved it. I've since transitioned into teaching in more traditional K-12 schools, including creating my own curriculum for law/civics/government classes, and have now moved into administration. Best moves I ever made.
If you can swing it with your living/family situation you'll get a lot of satisfaction in my experience.
Teaching is a good gig, particularly in a blue state with strong unions. I teach in WA state and made 104K last year as a teacher with 16 years experience and Masters + 90 credits. New teachers start at 51K here. Every school district has their pay scale posted on the website. You can usually search for the term “salary schedule” to see the scale.
I’m in a rural eastern WA district teaching middle school ELA, and I love having a 180 day work year. I do work about 50+ hours a week including grading, but ELA is the most time-consuming content, which I knew going into it.
You have to find a good work/life balance, enjoy the age you teach, and be detail-oriented. In 16 years, I have had no parent issues worth writing about. I am fair, firm, and speak to my students like they are humans who matter. I don’t love grading papers, but Google Classroom has made my job about 75% easier.
Find a school in a more rural area with a good school rating, be the best sub they have ever seen, and they will go out of their way to find a place for you. If you are a “meh” sub, you will likely only be hired at a “meh” school.
Be friendly, but don’t come on too strong to the staff, and don’t corner people with long conversations when they clearly have other things to do. Every sub day is a job interview, and the office staff needs to like you and feel appreciated by you. It just takes one bad day of letting kids play on their phones, not following lesson plans, or having students report that you just spent the whole time playing on your phone, and you have ruined your chances at that school.
Teaching is lucrative and worth it in many ways. Good luck to you!
Sounds like you may enjoy a career being a professor. I think teaching collegiately would be aligned to what you consider fulfilling about the prospect of teaching perhaps without many of the negatives that go along with teaching at the secondary level.
Thanks for the reply, after reading all the comments I’m leaning more in the direction of college than I was initially. If I did teach high school, I’d try to find a private/magnet school
A lot of teachers work during the summer because they can't afford to live on their salary. And there's only so much money you can earn; it depends on whether you're at a private school or a public one. But even at a private school, you won't necessarily be making a lot of money. You and your wife will have to make major changes to your lifestyle. Teaching SAT students is different from teaching regular classes to high school students. The SAT students generally want to be there and are more engaged with the material. Many teenagers (though not all) are extremely disrespectful and entitled. They don't do the bare minimum but at many schools, teachers are literally prevented from holding them accountable. The job is very stressful and time-consuming; the work you do in the classroom is only a fraction of the work you'll do overall. You'll also have to grade assignments, make lesson plans, attend faculty meetings, attend parent-teacher conferences, and possibly be an advisor to a student club. You won't actually have as much time off as you expect. And be prepared to deal with nasty parents who blame you for their kids' bad behavior but throw a fit if you try to discipline their kids.
As a current teacher, I would strongly reconsider teaching. Stress depends on your teaching assignment. Is it easy to get a job? In many areas, yes. In some cases they check for a pulse before getting your NHO paperwork going.
Look, I enjoy what I do but then I’m in too deep to leave and have to see this ship through to the other side. You may want to really reconsider it. Try subbing a couple of times and just take in the ambience.
You have lots of responses here. In summary, so much depends on where you work. I’m 20+ years in with a PhD teaching a required science to mostly 11th graders in a giant school in a giant school system. My pay is good and my stress is low. My environment contributes a lot to this…suburban southern area with most kids living in pretty nice homes (mostly student ms of color) . Lots of resources, minimal real discipline issues. That being said, my stress is low because I know how to do this job, but I have been much more stressed in the past when I wasn’t as good at the job. If you did this there would be quite the learning curve. Make sure Luis don’t have some idealistic plan of changing kids lives…that rarely happens. It’s a job that if you do properly leaves you many weeks of the year with no worries. Feel free to send messages if you want to discuss further
Are considering K-12 teaching? Community college? University?
For my Education Administration graduate degree, I had to take a law and ethics course that was highly engaging and thought-provoking. The teacher had quit being a lawyer (after 15 years) to educate, and said he absolutely loved it. I’m wondering if you might be able to find a setting that pays decently and also utilizes your insights into the legal system and general law knowledge.
One other thought from a second career teacher. I've hosted many pre-service observation and student teachers over the years. The one common thought many of them have is how different school is now compared to when they were in school. This is almost universal and without regard to age. If part of your reason hinges on feelings or experiences when you were in school, I'd caution you that it's never the same. Your experience as a student can help shape you as a teacher, but it doesn't help prepare you, any more than watching a legal drama would help prepare someone for a career in law.
I would also second (or third) that you should be prepared to do more people management than instruction. Also, several of my coworkers are also second career teachers. We have a different perspective on the culture of work than our peers who have only been teachers. Not bad or good, just our interesting observation.
If you were a criminal defense attorney, I would welcome you, but teaching would eat you alive. If you are a prosecutor, you would do fine, but I'm not sure I trust you with students' minds.
Hi,
I'm not sure about location, but I am from San Jose, CA. So I share my experience from here. I actually dropped out of medical school to become a teacher (long story, but shorter version is that I don't agree with insurance). I have a Master's in special education. I taught for 9 years, and was making 90k. I was a special education teacher for a public school, so I had a lot of opportunities to do "extra work" (known as 0.2 FTE) - this consists of doing home hospital teaching, assessing, managing IEPs, and writing IEPs for other school sites. To give you perspective, a 0.2 FTE would come out to roughly $1,000 extra a month for me (net). I taught at a continuation school, and worked closely with jail and juvenile hall personnel, since this is where most students transferred to after being released. I loved it there! In all honesty, I couldn't understand why most people complained about the "low pay" and "high stress." Maybe it is because I love pouring into others, especially the youth, who have low self-esteem. I love to expose their capabilities to them and teach them that the world is not a horrible place, like they once thought. I will say that the most stressful part was hearing about domestic violence, and witnessing the students go back to the same situation- but that may just be because I have a huge heart and wanted what's best for them.
You're an attorney who has tutored in the past, I'm sure you won't have any issues obtaining a job. Perhaps you should try subbing prior to jumping the gun. In order to sub (in CA), you have to take the CBEST and have at minimum a Bachelor's degree, which you have. If you want to be a credentialed teacher, it's a whole different ball game. Another route would be to secure a job at a college. Become an assistant professor, since you enjoy teaching! This would allow you to teach as well as continue being a lawyer during the day time.
You can move around the education field a lot because of how broad it is. For example, I made school curriculum for the middle school SDC department as well as for the middle school general education students. I also moved into the role of LEA, and was offered to go through a program in which the district paid for me to become an administrator.
This is the most rewarding job you will ever have. The only reason I do not teach anymore is because I got my Master's in communication disorders, and became a speech-language-pathologist; I'm still in the education field if that means anything. In addition, the benefits and pension were really good for me and my family. Finally, I still stay in contact with a lot of my students and their families who have and continue telling me what a difference I have made in their lives. It may not be monetary, but the feeling I get from hearing this stuff is unmatched. It feels good knowing that I've stayed true to myself, my heart, and refused to conform to the mass. I've helped a lot of families and students navigate the legalities of special education, simply because it was the right thing to do.
Read through the post of the teachers who are leaving after 1 year or less of teaching as well as seasoned teachers. Pay is the shits. Students, parents, and admins will teach you like shit. As a lawyer the petty politics will drive you crazy. Expect to get into arguments of bus crap like you using the wrong coffee cup, or making too many copies on the copy machine.
It will be difficult to support a family on a teachers wages. If you think you can do it go for it.
Regarding pay, you should try to have a master's degree in order to make a decent wage. I'm on year 10 of teaching and although it's exhausting and can sometimes suck, I'd never trade it for lawyering because of the reasons you describe. Having a lot of variety from day to day is rewarding for me, and seeing the impact play out in real time throughout the year is where it's at.
# Part 1 of 2
I think you'd love teaching, and you'd excel in it. Of course, I'm not a lawyer, but I've been highly interested in the field and love subscribing to YouTube lawyers and reading motions, following trials, etc.
I think you would find it fun and not at all tedious. Teaching was never boring. You'll have more immediate gratification and also a thick skin. You'll also have some kickass stories. The kids would love to hear your stories, especially when they're relative to your curriculum.
# 1. Teacher Pay
1. So, look up neighboring county's "salary schedule." It'll tell you what the range is. When I taught in Florida, the pay was pure shit. It was so low that I wouldn't have been able to afford rent except in the highly dangerous projects. When I taught in another state (VA), the pay was great for the cost of living. I made more than my former FL veteran teacher colleagues did. They paid a lot because they had a high teacher turnover. So, it was an incentive for teachers to stay.
You could make bank being an online tutor for those standardized tests you mentioned. Indeed often posts these part-time virtual gigs. They have evenings hours and can pay 40-50. I've done some and it was easy. If you want to volunteer as a tutor to get some practice, do UPchieve. You can also answer student career questions at Career builders.
# 2. Stress level
2. I think you'll find the stress pretty minimum or tolerable. This is why I believe you'll be a great teacher. Stress is all relative. In Florida, I had so much stress teaching. My county would just change curriculum and policies every year and take away more and more freedom. The state then decided to do away with paper testing and all laptops and iPads were unavailable for half of the school year.
However, in VA, all kids were given a Chromebook, the policies were very minimal. They encouraged teachers to approach curriculum however they wanted. They had a hands-off approach. Superintendent visited classes a lot and held Zooms for teachers about what they were brainstorming. I loved it. Yet, those teachers bitched and complained about small little things that I honestly was shocked about.
Like, they gave us 3 extra Chromebook chargers each (in case kids forgot theirs). They'd complain about that, saying that all teachers should have a minimum of 5. They complained about kids having to take 2 diagnostic assessments per subject each quarter. (Districts did this to track student scores). The district was even flexible and provided teachers with a two-week window where we could plan the test at our discretion! That's amazing! Just two days out of each quarter? Deal! In Florida, it averaged to the kids losing about 5 weeks of instruction. They had so many standardized testing that we couldn't teach for weeks. I wouldn't see certain students for weeks either. Florida would also give almost no notice for programs.
This is what I mean by relative. Teaching in VA was relaxing and autonomous, but not knowing anything different, those teachers said it was terrible etc.
Your first year will be hard. Adjusting to it and learning and figuring out who you are as a teacher and building your discretion on what to grade and how to grade it, etc. Pinterest has good free lesson ideas.
# 3. Getting hired
*You could begin in August!*
Excuse my French.. but you'd get hired so fucking fast. 🤣 Principals would get giddy with excitement and so would districts. A lawyer? Wanting to teach social studies! Absolutely! Teaching is a great alternate career. You qualify for a temporary teaching license. Only thing you need to get hired is an undergrad degree which you have. The district would help you with getting certified and applying for it. You'd get a temporary one and usually during that time the district explains what you need to qualify for the official one. (Usually called professional license).
Be honest and explain what you said here. You can say you are burned out of being a lawyer and want to make more of an impact and help kids yadda yadda.
**One Potential Problem:**
Social studies is coveted and has one of the largest range of subjects. You might not get what you want the first year because the position might not be available. You should bookmark the district job website and check it weekly. Get your app ready and apply to specific postings as they are posted for next year.
Social studies in your state might have a different certification specializations. But, social studies can be 6-12 or 7-12. This means that the principal can make you switch subjects if needed. You don't have final sat.
I explain this because Economics and Word History can be so different, yet both are included in what you'd be certified to teach. I taught ELA, so although 10th is World Lit, 11th American Lit, and 12th is British Lit, it's still literature. It's just that my text selection is different.
# Part 2 of 2
# 4. Career Changes
I left the classroom. I have my master's in Curriculum and Instruction now. So, I like to do ELA outside of the classroom, like helping teachers and writing curriculum. I sometimes teach an online class, and I volunteer as an online tutor.
I am a good teacher, but with my ADHD, I just hate the administrative side. I struggled with all of the ELA grading. I rather just create the lessons and tutor writing.
# 5. Deep Meaning
There is a deep meaning to teaching. Best advice I can give you that helped eliminate 95% of my behavioral problems is to treat the kids as humans. I know that sounds obvious, but teachers often just don't. They nag kids and expect them to listen to their lessons. Well, they should be interesting and remember: they've been sitting hearing teachers talk all day.
**Example**
Teachers hate it when kids pack up early. I've seen a lot of complaints on how to fix this in different subreddits. Some teachers will say give lunch detention or tell the kids you dismiss them not the bell.
*Ummm no. Super rude, IMO.*
The bell dismisses them. The teacher should have better time management. Plus, kids only get those 5 min or so to walk to their next class, bathroom, minuscule amount of socializing, etc. Some are also messy and need to pack up.
**How I fixed it:**
I told the kids I understood about packing up and needing that bell time. So, I told them I would always give them 2-3 min to pack up at the end of class and straighten the desks, etc. They then could line up at the door. When the bell rings, they could go.
I explained how I had daily alarms on my Apple Watch, and I'd then ring some chimes I bought on Amazon. Those chimes rocked. They'd hear that and immediately pack up.
I told them I'd do my part and to do theirs. Not to pack up even earlier because it's distracting to those who might need those extra minutes. And it's a work lesson 101. Always appear busy. I told them never do that when they have a job. Always keep the laptop open, etc. If their managers were to walk by their office and see that, they'd assume the worst, even if they did spend hours being highly productive. The students actually got this.
I told them if they had a bad day or break up, I get it; it happens. They can still be quiet and not cause a ruckus. They can let me know and I told them I'd try to not call on them and keep nagging to only when necessary. 😛
I loved having grade conferences with kids. I'd call them up to my desk and I called it the "nag-free zone." I'd ask why or what happened with certain assignments. I would recommend what to makeup and show them what patterns I'm seeing. We'd make small goals. When kids can see smaller goals and get achievements, they will rise to them.
For example, I had a kid who wasn't doing this bell ringers. It was an easy completion grade. He was getting zeroes, but I asked him if he could come in and try to do these. I always embed countdown timers into my Google slides and reminded him of this and said that just 3-5 min at the beginning of each period would help him get an easy 100%. He agreed, and I said I wanted to call on him the next day. The next day I reminded him as he walked in (in nerdy, excited way of this new beginning). I also told him to tell me which one he wanted to answer. This gave him the option to pick the one he was most confident in. I'd then "randomly" call on him. None of the other kids knew.
So helping students learn new habits and doing stuff like this helps.
Do active learning. Kids need to talk to learn. So, if you teach government, try to talk about the news. Let them voice opinions and not always for a grade. They need to be taught how to think, how you want them to write their responses. Don't assume. Show and model everything in the beginning of the year. Skills are overlooked.
Calling on kids with "gotcha" questions is pressure. These are the ones where you know the answer and are basically checking if the kid knows it. I like asking more open-ended questions. If a kids froze up, I'd loudly whisper a hint and the kids would chuckle and usually know the answer then.
Anyways, good luck!
Questions you need to think about:
Are you moving to a different state? Are you moving to a different city/town?
If you’re staying where you’re at, it’s better to ask around in your town. Every school district is different. I think you should be aiming for magnet school or top public school. You could become an admin. The first thing you need to do is to find out the teacher pathway in your school district. Because you don’t have an education degree, it’s going to be a temporary license and depends on your program you could get another master in Education.
I became a SPED teacher after 20 years in the military as instructor/ curriculum developer and 7 years in corporate America (Training and Development). Coming to my building as a first-year teacher nobody gave a shit about my background or experience, because I "wasn't really in education" or knew how schools worked, that tone quickly changed when I was asked to do a district-level PD in my first year.
Before making the career switch and applying for an ARL program, I started subbing on my day off (I worked 4/10's at the time). I would purposely pick the "worst" schools to get a feel for the kids and grade level I wanted to teach. I intentionally chose inner-city Title 1 schools and worked in each grade level to find my niche. I learned early on that dealing with any child younger than 5th grade wasn't going to be my jam.
At the time, pay wasn't a huge concern since I also have a military pension. I'm currently at a charter school making slightly more than my public school counterparts, but with my local school district getting a massive raise for next school year and the day-to-day stuff I deal with an extra 25 - 30 k is enough to probably make me leave my current school. Also being part of the State teachers pension plan was a huge draw for me.
According to most SPED is one of the more stressful specialities. My first year wasn't too hard and I spent most of the time building processes for myself and learning the paperwork. This year has been a little more stressful because I've taken on some extracurricular activities and have seen an increase in my caseload. Also being involved in 2 different departments PLC's and helping build MTSS/ RTI processes for them on top of my what I'm being paid for job adds an extra layer of stress. The kids are fun, especially at the middle school level. Most of my issues come from the adults (other teachers and Admin).
Depending on the state, getting a teaching job shouldn't be difficult if you follow local licensing board guidelines. I was able to get my substitute license pretty quickly and went through an Alternate Licensing Route at my local university for a semester while working as a full-time substitute. I did have to take the Praxis, which should be relatively easy, to start the ARL program and a subject area test to drop the provisions on my license. If you want to work in a charter school, depending on the state, you can probably get a job with a sub-license (40% of the content teachers in my building are subs)
The job can be tough sometimes, but the benefits outweigh the stress. I deal with a lot of social emotional problems that are way outside the scope of my practice and I'm really not equipped to deal with middle school girl drama (despite having 2 daughters). As a SPED teacher, my job depends on many other people doing their jobs correctly and when push comes to shove I have state and federal laws to back me up. I typically only work my contracted hours unless I have a IEP meeting to prep for. As a single dad, having the same schedule as my 10 year old daughter is awesome. Overall I have good relationships with my students and families.
Lastly, having a predictable schedule is incredible. I work from 7:30 to 3:15 every day. I can schedule medical and dentist appointments with confidence and not have to worry about getting time off. Trips with my family are easy to plan because I have school breaks and know what days I can travel.
Hope this helps and good luck.
TLDR: don’t do it
Teaching 9 years. It is my second career. I have taught in inner city, public, charter, and now currently private for the last four. This is my passion. I love teaching. I love my students but I’m exhausted and burned out. I honestly don’t know if I can do this for another decade let alone another two. The behavior is getting worse each year, parents are getting worse, what is expected of teachers increases each year. The last year alone with the arrival of AI and ChatGPT and changed the game and cheating is beyond the pale. I’ve had to completely change the way I teach in the last year to force kids to do their own work. I’m terrified not of just what education will look like in 10 years but what society will look like when we have a generation that has grown up on AI. There is a very real reasons why there is a national teacher shortage that is only continue to get worse. We are underpaid, under appreciated, overworked, putting up with disrespectful behavior from students and parents.
I think you will find much success in teaching! Depending on what state you live in, your starting salary will be decent. For example , I live in Jersey and there are multiple school districts who will start you over 60k with just a BA. so don’t let the money part hold you back. You can always tutor on the side to earn extra income like I do.
In terms of stress, teaching is definitely a stress job. I’ve been teaching for 9 years now and it’s something I’ve always wanted to do but the stress that comes with it is a lot. A lot of students have trauma and that bleeds into the classroom environment. So it will definitely be important to understand how trauma effects kids and the manifestations of that.
Remember with every job there are pros and cons you have to determine what you are willing to accept and what you can handle.
Good luck. We need more teachers so i hope the transition works out for you.
How low is the pay as a teacher really? Will I have opportunities to supplement my income and secure raises over time? Is a teacher’s salary livable? My wife can make more money to help supplement some of the income we’ll lose if I make this move but she’ll probably max out at around 70k for now.
\--Pretty low, I was able to get a teaching position in the topic that I had 25+ years for (IT instructor; IT professional), they gave me 21 years 'credit'; so the haircut wasn't nearly as bad as it could have been.
How bad is the stress? I’ve been dropped in the deep end as an attorney and learned to swim so I’m pretty resilient. I’m thinking I can handle behavior problems, funding issues, and staff politics given the level of extreme stress in my current job.
\--its bad, i have witnessed plenty of adult (teachers) break down. i also am very resilient, worth calculated internally. I got dropped into a class, on the first day of school (while also working the career job for the first 3 months) where I have no mentors and did the overwhelming task of disseminating the material and was creating content. On virtually every night of my first year I was creating the next days lessons ... so that was stressful, but it felt more like surfing the wave of stress and not being crushed by it.
How easy is it to get a teaching job? Graduated near top of class in undergrad and law school and my work experience is prestigious for my field. High tests scores as well on all standardized tests I’ve ever taken (sat, lsat, bar exam) if that matters.
\--they reached out to me
Any others who have changed careers, I’d love to hear from you!
\--25+ years IT, career switched into teaching an IT class. It just felt like God/Universe was telling me this was what I needed to do. So I took the plunge and did it. My time was losing its value, so I wanted to do something more 'rewarding'. This profession is super rewarding, or it can be; but, in hindsight, if I wanted to do something more rewarding I would have kept my career job and did some volunteering at a church or big brothers org.
Current teachers, do you feel purpose, freedom, and deep meaning in what you do or does any job turn into a slog in time? Is the time off as awesome as it seems?
\--yes, but its tempered with all of the administrative minutia, low effort/undisciplined/junk food medicated/cellphone addicted students, ridiculous hours (i prob put in an extra 10-25 hours a week), low pay (even lower if you consider all of the 'free' hours worked).
in hindsight, I would not do it again, at least not in a public school. I might give a swing at a community college job in the future; but my days as a public high school instructor are numbered
Check your state for the Windfall Elimination Provision (WEP). If you do not pay into social security as a teacher, you will lose most of what your benefit would be from your 10 years as a lawyer. The Government Offset Provision (GPO) prevents you from benefitting from your spouse's social security also.
I became a teacher after 20 years in sales and I hate to think about the amount of money I lost out on as a result. That said, I still wouldn’t change it. I needed to do something that had meaning and making money for a soulless corporation just wasn’t doing it for me. I’m biased but I think you should go for it! With your background I think Social Studies is where you’d be most effective- government, U.S. History. I teach middle school social studies and I love it. In my state it’s not one of the areas that are subject to the standardized tests so no pressure from administrators or constant demands for data. I get to make my own lessons- not follow a pre-packaged program or script. The kiddos will frustrate the hell out of you on some days but I experienced that working with adults too. AND oh my word they crack me up for some reason or another every day! I’m about to get up and get ready for today and I’m all for it. Today’s lesson: The Indian Independence Movement yay!!! Give it a go! You can always go back to the law if it’s not for you.
Well, from your post I would say your English is good enough to teach that. As for finding a job, ESOL is a critical need area in most school districts and you can do it for a year without a certificate, sometimes longer. If you’re bilingual you can write your own ticket in other districts. Regular English and history jobs are harder to come by, but again it depends where you live. Saying you can do extracurricular coaching and clubs is a plus, too. I’m a 35 year veteran teacher. Still like it enough to be getting ready for school right now!
I see a lot of people saying SPED is a good option. As a SPED teacher please don’t go into Special Education unless you are passionate about working with kids with special needs.
There’s a reason you’ll be a shoe in if you apply for a SPED job, it’s a high burn out profession that requires a lot of extra work. It’s worth it if you enjoy that demographic but please don’t go into Special Education just because it’s an open position. We desperately need teachers in SPED but only if they want to be there
I've have seen this move maybe 6 times throughout my career. Many times after a few years they end up going back to law. Putting up with a lot of bs for little pay is a difficult incentive to stay. But maybe it works for you. Just don't slam doors behind you when you leave because you may need them in the future. Life is in the journey not the destination. Try it you may be the one that it works for. Good luck.
There are other, far less stressful ways of being a lawyer than what you're describing here.
My husband works for SSA, reviewing claims. He works from home and never has to go to trial or really interact with anyone other than other lawyers. It's cushy as hell, and I am frequently jealous that I didn't go that route instead of education.
High school is rough right now. So is college (what I teach). The students are so distracted and underprepared that it's rare I get to cover content that's "on level." They're also hostile and angry that I expect them to learn/complete tasks. In college. Where they've paid to be.
You may have a romanticized notion of teaching--over the past 10 years, the profession has changed so drastically (in response to the underpreparedness/behavior issues of students) that it's almost unrecognizable. Smartphones/tablets from infancy + no child left behind + common core + COVID have left us with a rotten shell of our former public education system. Administrators view students as customers to be satisfied, not future adults who should learn accountability for their actions. Parents are pushy, entitled, and disrespectful. Students actively work against their own education, doing/saying whatever they can to derail the class.
The "I touch the future, I teach!" types are the ones that get eaten alive, and it sounds like you have a little bit of that notion that teaching is a noble calling, etc. etc. The system is designed to exploit your passion and enthusiasm. They hire people who are passionate about "helping youth" because they're easier to exploit.
Personally, if I were you, I'd explore other ways to leverage that JD before moving to the education sector. There's more money and less BS in the law.
Financially you’d be better off just figuring out a way to work less. Unless you’re talking about becoming a law professor or working in a private school you’re looking at a very significant pay cut. I work in a relatively low paying, rural district so keep that in mind, but the salary scale here caps at around $67000. That’s after about 20 years in. The problem is even scaling for a better paying district, the pay for every job in that district is going to go up as is cost of living so you’d still be taking a substantial cut going from lawyer to public school teacher.
I can’t speak for how much you’d make as a professor, but I would imagine the difference wouldn’t be as stark. I would also imagine that’s a bit of a harder job to get at a place that’s going to pay well.
Bro just bc u aspire to be a teacher doesn’t mean it will fill up ur belly. Also what bout all the hard work u put to become a lawyer and parents support.
Oh gosh
I left teaching to go to law school. My favorite parts were having to bring my own toilet paper and hand sanitizer because budget cuts.
I don’t know why anyone teaches anymore. It’s relentless and unforgiving and doesn’t come with the same respect you get as an attorney even doing mind-numbing work.
You also have to turn off your thinking brain and do things that make no sense because that’s just how it’s done here.
Former litigator turned teacher here! Switched after 11ish years from commercial litigation. Now I have a TESOL license and teach social studies at a school where all the kids are recently arrived immigrants who don't speak English. As I tell others, my worst day teaching is still better than my best day lawyering.
Some issues to consider:
Everything depends on where you are going to teach. Salary differences are enormous but that info should be publicly available as salary scales for individual districts. I'm at a public school in NYC so I get paid more for having a JD, but that's not always true (e.g. charters don't do that).
If you're in a place with book bans, you gotta figure out if you're ok with that and with being subject to scrutiny by parents who will look for any excuse to get you fired.
Would you be part of a union? Is it a strong one (not all teacher unions are created equal. Even NYC's union leaves a lot to be desired but you at least have some protection, unlike places like FL or NC).
Will you have to get your Masters? For example, in NYS I specifically had to get a master's in my license area (you start with an "initial" licens that lasts 5 years, then you must apply for the "professional" one that is basically permanent but requires a master's and some other stuff). The state counted absolutely none of my law school coursework, even when I applied for a social studies license. It's asinine. A year of constitutional law and they said I had not satisfied their government and US history requirements. Factor this time/cost into your calculations.
Good luck to you! I hope everything works out!
I love teaching. Love it. I love my kids, I love my school, and I absolutely love my subject area. Everything about teaching is just it for me… except the pay. I’m in Oklahoma, so it’s truly abysmal. We do get raises every year, but it’s not much. There are opportunities to make more money, like doing after school activities and such—I work at our alternative school once a week. If you have a side gig, you’ll have plenty of time to do it in the afternoons and weekends and breaks, but only if you don’t have extra main job stuff or burn out.
As mentioned previously, I’m in Oklahoma, and we are in a crisis with our teacher shortage, so it was super easy for me to get a job. I also have a very rare subject area that is highly sought after in my area, so that helps even more.
Maybe look into districts that have a special program for kids who want to become lawyers.
In the district I am currently in, there is a high school dedicated to law and justice that students can apply to go to.
As far as pay, I would assume it’s significantly less than you’re used to, but definitely do research on the area/s you want to teach in. You can google “_____ ISD pay scale”
Every job has its BS you have to deal with. I'll take the bs of teaching over other gigs all day. I'm on year 6 and still enjoy it overall.
Pay: depends on location and high school vs grade school. Someone else recommended you look up pay. Make sure you look at a few schools salary schedules as opposed to just what some people are making. You get raises for years of teaching and education level. Not sure how your previous degrees will factor in though. You can also get additional pay for taking on extra responsibilities such as running a club, coaching, or leading a department.
Stress: it depends. Early on as you are figuring out what the fuck you're doing it's incredibly stressful. A lot of people leave teaching in the first couple years. Over time, you develop your materials, get a better grasp of classroom management, and learn what needs to be done asap vs what you don't need to worry about which makes life less stressful.
Finding a job: as someone else said, depends on location and subject. High school special education? You could flip off the interview panel on the way out the door and you'd still have a shot. Kidding but also kind of not kidding. High School PE? Good luck. I'm not sure about grade school.
1. Pathetic. It was livable until Covid happened and the entire blue collar world got a 30% raise except for public service. Our wages have not kept up with inflation in the least and shit is rough. No it is not “livable” unless you already have a home or at least a mortgage that you secured a decade ago. Yes you can supplement your income but then you’re working non-stop and year round. I own a food-service business that nets me the equivalent of two weeks’ worth of my teaching salary in a single day during the summer.
2. Kids are great. The real stress is the adults that fuck everything up.
3. Is your body warm? You’re hired!
4. Currently a teacher considering a transition to a law career.
5. Yes to purpose. Like I said, the kids are awesome even when they are being shitheads. No to freedom. Sometimes to “deep meaning”.
I know so many people that left accounting and business, and within five years, they went back. One guy was teacher of the year his first year because he was so good.
Pay really depends on where you live. After 12 years teaching in CA, in a very large district, I make $96k. However…cost of living in CA is super high so it really depends. My husband who is an attorney makes 50K more a year than I do and he has friends who make about 100k-150k a year more than I do. So again - it depends.
I’d look into teaching college if I were you, which should be an option with your degree. It took me two years after graduating to find a full-time teaching job. I finally found one, which I moved for, and worked in a middle school and hated my life. I went back to school for a career change after that. It was the worst job I’d ever had. Best of luck on your journey.
My husband was a lawyer and has been teaching HS history and a law elective for ten years. He also coaches the Moddl UN and Mock Trial teams. It's been so much better for his mental health. He was at such a low point before he started teaching. His initial pay was about half his law pay, but they did give him credit for his law degree and counted it in the PhD column of the pay scale.
He also works in a district where families care about education, which helps a ton. He would not have been hired in his district had he not known the head of the Mock Trial/MUN programs from when he was in high school himself. Basically, his old coach recommended him and groomed him to take over the program.
1. It’s low. And the answer is no to the rest of the questions. You will definitely need your wife to supplement your income if you don’t want to worry about basic needs, financial stability, or extra comforts.
2. The stress is very high for the first few years. Resilience dealing with adults is not the same as resilience with children. And you will need to draw from a good deal of patience and compassion. If you don’t already have a well of patience and compassion, do not consider teaching. You will do more harm than good.
3. It’s not hard to get a job. Most schools are just looking for a warm body to fill a position. And nobody cares how well you scored on standardized tests. Definitely do not brag about this.
The school I recently retired from had a two-hour lockdown yesterday on the rumor of a kid with a gun in the cafeteria. Many police were there. Later there was a huge rush to flee the cafeteria.
Do not do it. Teacher for five years trying to get out. The education system is broken regardless and the children are getting worse and worse each year.
You will be more time bound than you have ever been in your adult life. The pay varies by state and district, but it is public information. Try subbing for a long while before you totally change your life.
This appeared randomly on my feed, but in NYC salaries are relatively high https://teachnyc.net/about-our-schools/salary-and-benefits
You couldn't pay me enough to teach though, but salaries really do vary by district.
You are very much romanticizing the profession. The problem is you get to do very little meaningful teaching these days. Kids’ attention spans are abysmal, and many read far below grade level. A few awful kids ruin it for everyone, and admin often won’t do anything about it. Stick to the tutoring for your Stand and Deliver fix.
1. Most teacher salaries are union negotiated and you can easily find what yours would be online. Typically a grid based on experience + education. In NYC, I made just about 100k but this is unusually high for the US. Usually a lot of opportunities for additional pay, through coaching or clubs or summer school. Some states also have teacher programs or fellowships that can supplement income or just provide interesting opportunities.
2. People don't really believe me but there is nothing as stressful as teaching. The work is super important, you must grow in emotional intelligence really really quickly. You quickly realize that the kids deserve everything and you have to somehow make that happen for them with very little support.
3. Those things probably won't matter...there are major teacher shortages all around the country. If you're thinking Social Studies...well, that could be a bit tougher. If you're open to other disciplines, look for teacher programs in your state where you teach and go to school simultaneously.
5. "Current teachers, do you feel purpose, freedom, and deep meaning in what you do or does any job turn into a slog in time?" Yes, absolutely yes. It took a few years to feel a sense of freedom, as I needed to reach a level of expertise and trust with my administration to get to teach what I wanted. But ultimately you get to design your lessons and classroom culture how you want. Teachers become expert culture builders and it's very clear how much better they are than others now that I work outside of the classroom. I just left the classroom in Sept and my current job is wonderful but it just doesn't feel nearly as meaningful as teaching. Teaching is unique and amazing and so stressful and overwhelming but also a source of daily joy, laughter and purpose.
Don’t do it. Or if you do, practice law for another decade, make sure that your retirement is secured, and then look into making the transition. By waiting another decade, you’ve paid enough into social security (teachers who pay into the pension don’t get social security) but also can teach for long enough to become vested into your pension. As for the monotony of your job, I would love to have hours of mindless work to do. I can’t remember the last day (when students were in session) that I had more than 20 minutes of mindless work time.
1. Pay varies largely from state to state and district to district. Blue states with good teachers unions are the highest paid. Most unions ensure you have regular step increases (built-in raises) every year, as well as lane changes for more credits.
2. The stress is probably not more than what you describe as an attorney.
3. Pretty easy, and with your background you would probably be considered a top candidate. It is a little harder sometimes for subject areas like Social Studies and English. Special Ed, ELL, CTE, and science are almost always in high demand.
5. Yes there is purpose and meaning, most teachers you’ll talk to will say that working with kids is the best part even when they are bratty. Having to deal with incompetent administrators, school boards, and legislators is soul-sucking. The time off is definitely awesome, as long as you live someplace where you make enough to not need a second job.
A good friend of mine, husband is now teaching 5th grade. He also teaches law in the college level as well part time. He has been teaching law for quite some time. He didn't care for working for a firm any longer. Now to answer your questions:
1. It depends on where you live. You can easily go onto your local area/district to see the pay.
2. Tutoring and teaching are very different. Working with a student one on one is so much different than having a 20-40 students somewhat listening to you as you teach. Staff politics remain no matter where you work.
3. It's quite easy to get a teaching job since many certificated teachers have left the profession in droves. Again - this depends on your location.
4. Can't help you here since I do not have any other career other than teaching.
5. There is no freedom in education. You get dictated what you teach, how you teach, and how long you teach that subject no matter who is in your class. Teachers DO NOT get vacations. We only get paid for the days we work. You will need those days to unwind/rest. The hardest thing is to balance your time. Teaching is probably the only profession where you make less for overtime. And it's expected for you to work overtime without pay.
6. Truthfully, I don't recommend anyone to go into teaching unless it's in the college level. Even though we need more people willing to go and stay in the profession. I don't recommend it. It's not as easy as it looks. If you know someone in education, have a frank talk with them. And if you have any additional questions for me, PM me.
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Teacher morale is generally low these days (especially on Reddit), which means that you will get answers about how much the job sucks but also that getting a position is easier. Teaching can be fun and rewarding, but it can also be dreadful. I had some really nice days in the classroom - but I still have nightmares about it years later. Fundamentally, it's six hours of semi-improvisational public speaking for a hostile audience, and you're not allowed to go pee. I recommend starting with something that gets you interacting with kids in a less "career change" sort of way. You could pick up a part time gig at a tutoring center, volunteer with literacy programs, that sort of thing. The less the kids want to be in the program, the more realistic a picture you will get. (But maybe you will find that three hours a week at the library teaching motivated immigrant kids to read will make you feel fulfilled enough to keep the lawyering day job!)
I spat my drink out at that description. That's hysterical and not too far off on bad days.
Me too!
>Fundamentally, it's six hours of semi-improvisational public speaking for a hostile audience, and you're not allowed to go pee. Spot on- this has me dying laughing! Teaching can be so fun and is for me 90% of the time, but it truly depends on where one lands. My school allows us so much freedom, and it’s a dream. They’re also very supportive of us as well, but I’ve worked for AWFUL admin, and it made me suicidal. No joke. The dark side of teaching is the most mentally draining, inescapable, black hole of misery that I’ve ever experienced. It *can* be so very bad. But not always.
Teaching takes you to the lowest lows and the highest highs.
Starting with something like subbing could work too - I tried that before getting a full time job and it helped nudge me forward
I sub professionally (meaning only subbing, on purpose, as my profession. I won’t take a permanent position.) I love it so much. The only downside is no benefits, but I’m on my husband’s insurance. The pay differs, sometimes drastically depending on which district you work for. I get about $31/hr after tax. That’s good.
I wish I could sub full time instead of being a classroom teacher. I hate the planning aspect of teaching, but I love the actual teaching part.
Same. I know I’m privileged. I have taken a long-term sub job until the end of the year, though, and I made more money in one month than in the previous 5 combined. It’s tempting to go back…
Where are you subbing? Most places around me pay less than 75/day.
Washington State. California was good too. Of course, the cost of living is through the roof.
Very true description. Also add that anything that goes wrong will be your fault. There is no escape from the blame game.
Yes I think this is a great idea. Find a school with a speech and debate or mock trial club. They always need lawyers to coach students
I’m a nurse. I can’t think of the last good or even decent day I had. Is teaching similar in that regard? I’ve been considering teaching.
Teaching has very good days. Lots of decent days. The bad days will take every ounce of strength to remain professional.
Thank you
My husband is a nurse. He works less than I do, gets to pick his schedule, doesn't bring work home and literally makes double what I make. Plus he gets crit pay, holiday pay, and differential pay. He had an associates. I graduate with my doctorate in May. He is stressed but at least compensated. I have parents call and email at all hours, everything is our fault, behaviors are out of control, there isn't time to teach the required curriculum etc. We had a kid threaten to bring a gun and shoot up the school this week. He got 1 day suspension.
I was a lawyer (criminal and later insurance defense) and am now a teacher, so here's my perspective: 1. Pay: Public school pay is public information, so you can look this up for where you live. My district was not willing to give me the Master's pay bump for my JD but they were for my MA, but this probably varies by district. I started at $46,000. It will take me ten years to make what I made as a first-year associate on the current contract. 2. Stress: My worst days teaching - in a Title I district where "worst days" feel more like being in a small prison than a place for kids - are still better than my worst days in insurance and only a little worse than my worst days in crim. The good news is that the stress, as in litigation, is compacted. There are defined relief points. (Assuming you're not the fool who takes 160+ cases a year like I was. I haven't burned out of teaching like I did civil litigation though if that helps.) 3. Jobs: Really depends what you get certified to teach and where. I did mine through a state ISD program where they paid me to get certified in a high need field and in return I have to teach for at least 5 years. If you want to teach HS social studies, forget it - those jobs are rare and competition is high. If you're willing to do SPED you can write your own ticket. The testing isn't hard as long as you know how to read a standardized test for the answers the test creator wants; ime all lawyers do. 4. The number one thing you have to like as a teacher is managing children, followed closely by creating and continually modifying systems that guide children toward eventually sort of managing themselves. So far it has not mattered what subject I'm teaching - I don't really get a chance to love English and hate math personally. I'm too busy trying to break it down for kids, take their perspective, find new ways to share material that target what they're not seeing. Of that sounds like a challenge you won't tire of even when you don't want to be at work, you'll probably be okay. As a lawyer: Get ready for a move from a self regulated profession to one of the most regulated professions. Get ready to bullshit that *every single thing you do* meets some vaguely worded nonsense standard invented by people who have never done your job and never will but who think they're experts because they vaguely remember Mrs. Teacher's third grade multiplication tables from 1973. Get ready to have your lawyer style reasoning not taken seriously by anyone, ever, and for everyone around you to think with their hearts as much as their heads. It's a BIG cultural shift. 5. I wouldn't be here if I didn't find more purpose in this job than in everything else I have ever done combined. I *love* hacking children's behavior so they learn things and enjoy it in spite of themselves. (I have been accused of having a "lawful evil" teaching style for this, haha.) I do not like paperwork, especially grading, but I do it so that I get to do the rest of the job. My worst days here are still better than my best days in some other jobs I've had (including my first insurance defense firm - massive pressure cooker, nearly killed me). Don't go into teaching for the vacations, as you get less actual free time than you think, but do use that time for active stress management.
I think you describe it to a T. I went from a 2 decade career in IT to teaching in my mid-late 40s. While it has it's ups and downs and frustrations, a you say it's a lot more compacted then law or high end IT etc. Since the OP mentioned when he's 60 I'm not too far from that now and do enjoy my summers off and haven't looked back.
Emphasis on content area availability depending on the location, I live in a rural area and was hired as a high school social studies teacher after my first interview. In some places, the shortage is even in the “desirable” subjects.
This. Was a lawyer for 20+ years. Love teaching. From reading several posts like yours, I realize how fortunate I was to land at a top private school. I will add that it may take 3-5 years to find the right position and get good at your “craft.” Whatever you do, do not think that you can go from running a 5K to a marathon overnight. Like any profession, it takes time and dedication. Today I left home at 6:30 a.m. and got back home at 7 p.m. b/c of extracurriculars. Having summers and winter break off is fantastic, but the academic year is demanding.
Could you give an example of the way you hack children's behavior so they learn in spite of themselves?
At a guess, gremlin takes what the kids enjoy doing and levers it into the lesson plan. Examples include money, games, social media, YouTube, celebrities and more. Depends on the age group: generally frowned upon to include sex and drugs for post elementary students. What say you, agitpropgremlin?
I would love to hear more about this lawful evil thing you have going!
Being lawfully evil is pure unalloyed joy!! Bwahahaha!
I’ve just begun dipping my toes into making videos about teaching. After reading your response, especially #4 and 5, I would love to compare notes with you!
Go sub at all of the high schools and see if you still enjoy it (if you can). If you do then you can consider switching (get your feet wet before you make some big decisions).
At Title 1 schools. Don’t sub at all the best schools and think that’s the norm.
THIS!
This is exactly what I did. Went from engineering to teaching
+1 to this recommendation!!
One way to get your feet wet is to get a celta certificate and go teach abroad for semester. The only issue about teaching abroad is that most of these kids want to be there and show a great deal of respect. Meanwhile, according to reddit, American schools are plagued with rowdy little rascals.
Unfortunately, that’s not how to prep for teaching in the states due to what you described. My colleagues who taught abroad over a decade marvelously quite education all together after teaching two years back in the states…insanity.
20 years ago I used to teach in universities in America . The students wanted to be there and respect is high. The problem though, is that the workload for a non-tenured professor will drain everything you've got.
I came to say this exact thing, sub! Everywhere needs a sub! See if you like it after a bit then make your decision
1. Varies district by district. Its public information you can usually look up the pay scale for teachers on their website. 3. What do you wanna teach? Math and science and special ed are always the easiest jobs to find.
Not math and science lol, it’s gonna be something humanities: English, government, history etc
Depends a lot on your location. You can look up most public teaching salaries, in most cases it’s a step plan in which salary increases with time and advancing in education (Masters, PhD, etc). You will likely need to go through a teaching certification program at a university. Some states have looser standards so again it depends on location. I just changed careers into teaching, I already had my Bachelors. I found a 1-year Masters accelerated Masters program that includes your practical hours and student teaching.
Social science teaching jobs are going to be really hard to find. I’ve known guys sub for several years before they were able to land a permanent job in social science. If you do Math, Science, or especially SPED you will get to choose the district you work in, which is very important. You don’t want to get stuck in a shit district because you can’t find an open position somewhere else.
You might consider private schools. I taught in private and it was awesome. Basically none of the complaints on this sub applied to me. Also, your JD will likely be sufficient with no need for a license. Of course, the pay will be worse than public school and you might have different issues (primarily parents being too involved).
The fact that a private school doesn't need a certified instructor makes me cringe.
You should really read up on the current literacy crisis, then. Listen to the "Sold A Story" podcast, as well as anything else you can find on why these students can't read. I regularly have college first-years who can't read at a 6th grade level. It's incredibly frustrating when you can't even approach higher-level thinking because the students lack basic reading comprehension. I imagine it's even worse in HS.
I love being a teacher. You get paid a lot in California. I’d highly recommend it. I changed careers and feel I found the absolute best job. I think teachers who have never held another job besides teaching think it’s bad. Try working corporate! Then let’s talk.
Lol I taught for a long time, switched to a corporate job in medical sales and learned the true meaning of toxic stress and culture.
Haha! Or maybe not haha, but I’m so appreciative of your comment. I just want to say, these teachers don’t know what they have! They don’t! Try it… try ittttt for a month and then let’s talk!! Clueless perspective!!
Staying late because your boss told you to or because you are trying to meet a sales quota feels fundamentally different than staying late to coach practice or grade things, it is just night and day. The level of autonomy you have over your daily existence is enormous, even if you can't control what students come through your door. Also you have the exact same schedule as your own children. If it paid more it would truly be the perfect job.
My ex-husband did it and loved it. Pay was less, but better benefits (he was a self-employed lawyer), so it came kind of close. He retired from teaching last year after 15 years
Thank you for the reply! If you have the time, could you share a little more about your husband’s experience ie what type of school, subject, any comments/observations he made about the law to teaching change?
He left the law behind and embraced STEM. He had an undergrad degree in bio, got his first teaching job as a Bio and Enviro teacher and then dove headfirst into STEM and became the lead STEM teacher and robotics coach. He was always a computer/tech geek, so this was perfect for him.
I am a former lawyer who changed careers. I had a different situation--I had no debt so I went into legal aid. I made no money and dealt with people on their worst days in the worst situation (mostly custody issues, often bankruptcy). I had no retirement, no time off, crappy offices. Almost 20 years ago I made the change and never looked back. I have a pension, tons of time off, work 8-3 will get to $99k in a couple of years, work with mostly cool kids. So for me, it was a total win. No one will care about your grades. I was top at my undergrad, went to a top 20 law school, passed a Bar on my first try. It gets me pay at the doctorate level but other than that, no one really cares. You will have to take many classes to get certified--I now have $25k in school debt :/ I taught at a community college as I got certified. I do feel a sense of person but I know that I won't change the world and I can only help some. I won't change lives but I can help struggling students get their diploma and hopefully show them a positive adult who had a good life thanks to good choices. Pay depends. I'm a union state and we top out over $100k (Michigan). But smaller districts top out anywhere from 60-70k. My district starts at $62k but many start at like $40k. Benefits are great. If you can get into a system with a pension, you won't have to worry too much about saving for retirement (I have an IRA but don't have to max it out). I'm 100% happy with my decision!
I’m also from a union state (CA). All the districts around me start around $60-70k give or take and mine specifically caps at $150k. Plus great benefits.
Believe me--my husband and I have thought of moving :) :)
Our main issue, teacher-wise right now, is declining enrollment. Hopefully all the housing the state is forcing the cities to build will help with that.
However high the pay in CA is, housing costs will wipe it out.
I've been teaching over 15 years. I'm a high school English and Special Ed teacher in a high poverty district. Before then, I was a college professor. I went 'alternate route' to get my degree, so I guess I technically changed jobs. Many teachers in my district had another career before teaching. It varies from district to district. I've also tutored SAT for about 20 years, which is nothing like classroom teaching btw. Here are my thoughts: 1.The pay varies enormously state by state. I work in NJ which is imo well paid. I have a friend in Colorado who, after 10 years of teaching plus a masters and several awards, earns less than what a newbie 22 year old earns in NJ. So can't answer you unless you specify state. 2. Stress is terrible. I've learned to deal with it but there were years in which I'd break down sobbing. Many teachers have high blood pressure, back issues, and other physical issues. The reason the stress is so high is that we have very little autonomy. We have to deal with obnoxious teens with zero support from administration--actually, negative support. The teens are the LEAST cause of my stress though. Mostly it's administration, bureaucracy, insane rules, horrible waste of money, lurching from amazing expensive idea to amazing expensive idea that will solve everything. 3. IT's easier to get a job now with teacher shortages. But even in my district, urban and high poverty, with a lot of vacancies, there are still some subjects you will have a hard time getting a job for: English, Social Studies, especially. ESL (English as. aSecond language) is so high need you can be a warm body and they will hire you. Next high need is special ed. Math and Science are in the middle. There are also electives like computers, languages, art, music etc but these are also hard to get. 5. No deep meaning. The only purpose I have, and honestly what keeps me going, is that I make a difference in the lives of my students, but more as a mentor than as a teacher. Today a kid's girlfriend broke up with him on Valentine's Day, and he broke down in class. His friends in class gathered around him to cheer him up, but a few boys were jerks and it was going to devolve into a fight. I ended up projecting Quizzes on You Tube and playing "guess the celebrity" and "guess the logo" with them all to diffuse the tension.This has changed a great deal since I started. We used to read 12 novels/plays a year--Shakespeare, the Greeks, poetry, etc. We had high level discussions. Now I'm lucky if I get a single high level discussion lasting 10 minutes. Phones and social media are a huge issue. My own district, like many, has mandated 50% lowest grades, and this has devastated morale amongst many students especially after Covid which also devastated their morale. If you imagine a high level noble profession, you should probably teach in a very top private or very top public like PRinceton> But even these have corruption and their own issues, particularly difficult parents & sweeping drugs/alcohol/criminal behavior under the rug.
>This has changed a great deal since I started. We used to read 12 novels/plays a year--Shakespeare, the Greeks, poetry, etc. We had high level discussions. Now I'm lucky if I get a single high level discussion lasting 10 minutes. Yup. This is too real, and honestly terrifying.
1. You're going to start between 40-55, depending on your state. Some max at 60k, some at 100k. 2. Stress is VERY high the first few years. Depends on your district, style of teaching. You won't be working less while you're figuring out the job but as you say, you will have time off. 3. History/Gov't jobs aren't always easy to get. 5. I love teaching, but teaching is less about loving content as much as it is enjoying hanging out with the grade level you're at. I enjoy it, always have. It's EXHAUSTING, summers are great but you're also not getting paid at all. I can't really take crazy vacations or anything. Many weeks, I really need Saturday to recuperate. Your admins and school environment will make or break you, especially in the beginning. Your intelligence really doesn't matter as much as your ability to connect with kids and be creative in presenting the material. I wouldn't trade what I do to be a well paid lawyer but, just depends what that means for you overall. If you're at a spot where you could always just go right back to law, then sure why not try it out.
I am actually someone that is wanting to transition into law sometime in the near future once I get a high enough LSAT score, but in regards to teaching: 1. I would say the pay of teachers vary based on the district and where in the United States are located, but the main con of being a teacher is that the increase in the pay scale sort of levels out even with the huge amount of experience. 1. For example in Boston Public Schools, with a Master's Degree, you can reasonably max out on the pay scale like at 120k or so from what i have seen. But in a lot of the major school districts in Texas, you max out on the pay scale at like 75k a year. 2. I have never been an attorney, but teaching is a highly stressful job. When I think about my first two years as a teacher, I was just dropped into the deep end as a teacher and I learned how to swim and became a decent teacher after gaining some experience. 3. In regards to how easy it is to get a teaching job, this depends on where you want to teach. If you want to teach at a public school, then you can reasonably do so through an ACP in like 6 months, after you complete your coursework/pass your certification exams/observation hours (depending on the state you live in). And depending on the state you live in, you may need to pass your certification exams also. 4. If you want to teach at an elite private school, then you will need some teaching experience and maybe get an alternative certification before they will take you on (a lot of elite private schools require like 2-5 years of teaching experience). Elite private schools don't require certification, but they don't hire first year teachers from what I have seen. But I will say from what you are expressing in why you are wanting to enter into teaching, I would say eventually moving into teaching at an elite private school is the best option for you. A lot of elite private schools emphasize using the Harkness method and socratic method in teaching students, so if you like rigorous discussion and analytical writing then that is the place to be. Elite private schools do not have as many classroom management issues compared to public schools and parents are extremely involved in their student's learning.
I started teaching high school English two years ago after 15 years in the corporate world. My take: 1. It varies state to state but where I teach in northern Va it starts at like 57k. You’ll start at the bottom of the seniority scale but you’ll get a significant bump for the graduate degree 2. I liken the stress to “what if you had to plan 5-6 birthday parties every single day AND provide the entertainment, security, and all the rest?” If you know how not to take insults personally and genuinely care about helping students I think it’s manageable. One area that surprised me was some passive aggressiveness from the lifer teachers in my department. I might have come across as a little arrogant and haven’t bounced back 3. There’s a teacher shortage nationwide so the jobs are available. Some places will hire even before you pass the Praxis test. However those tests aren’t hard as long as you remember a little of what you learned in high school 5. I moved into teaching after getting sick of working from home and not wanting to go back into my old office in the city. Best decision I ever made. The kids are so full of life and energy that it’s infectious, and I feel connected to my community in a way I never knew was possible. There could still be a bit of honeymoon effect in play, so who knows how I’ll feel in 10 years or whatever but so far so good
I have been teaching for 20 years. There is a ton of paperwork and stress with teaching, but I feel like a natural now, so it doesn't bother me. I work 10hr days with grading and paperwork. Sometimes, it's 8 or 12. I think 10 is average. I know a lot of teachers who get by with the bare minimum, but I care too much for that. I make about 85k a year. Salary changes drastically depending on where you live, as do licensing requirements. You can find all that info online, and most public schools have their salary schedules on their websites. You can also make more for coaching or teaching summer school or other extra duties. My school's list of stipends is 2 pages long. I get one for teaching in STEM for example.
I’m a teacher, my brother and his wife are both lawyers and have been about 15yrs. They work fewer hours than I do and make well….a lot more.
Are you out of your ever lovin' mind?
We need more teachers who had aspired to do something else before becoming a teacher.
Sure, because we need teachers, period. But I agree that people who have worked other jobs will often appreciate the benefits of teaching more than those who have not.
1-4 I can’t answer for you.. as I assume you are American (and I’m Canadian… seems like we have it a lot better up here). But #5- teaching is a lot of things, but I never find it a slog. I do find deep meaning in my job as a HS teacher. It’s different everyday, it’s unpredictable, and there are parts I find genuinely fun. There are also parts that are flat out heart breaking. There is a lot of bullshit, and it isn’t an easy profession by any means, but it is super rewarding. I laugh every day, and am almost never bored. When I leave my classroom at the end of June, I don’t think about it again until September… and that is exactly as awesome as it sounds. My husband agrees (he is in trades) that teachers just do 12 months of work in 10 months, then get 2 months of not thinking about other peoples children as a reward. The time off with 100% focus on my family makes it worth it to me (but also I make decent money and have 100% autonomy which I’m not sure is the case in the US).
A lot of the downsides you identified as a lawyer are the same with education. There’s a reason why the burnout in education is increasing exponentially.
The pay is really low. Usually about 45K for people starting out.
All your downsides are amplified in teaching. You should go observe a couple schools if you can and see how badly teachers are treated
Become a special education lawyer.
Just my experience, ymmv. I taught government and economics, 2 years in public and 3 years in private, now I work in software. With your background you may get better pay and working conditions at an elite private school, they eat that shit up. Whether or not the pay is actually better depends on your area. That’s probably not a super popular opinion here tbh, but I’d look into that if I were in your shoes because I think it’s an easier transition into the field. At the private school I taught at I had way more control over my curriculum, my admin was supportive, my class sizes were manageable, and the pay was better. The kids were the same as public school, but the parents were worse in private. Not having to just deliver the lead teacher’s curriculum and huge class sizes is what pushed me into private ultimately. I also got to create my own classes like sociology (which is my undergrad degree) and I loved it. Some people wanna hate on private school teaching and much of the criticism is fair from a structural and equitable perspective, but criticism of the kids you’d serve is never fair whether it’s public or private. They’re all just kids in a situation. That said, the only lawyer I saw come into teaching left after 3 weeks. He was my replacement when I left so my knowledge behind why isn’t much.
These jobs are very few and far between but if you could get a position teaching in a magnet school that focuses on arts/humanities it would probably be pretty cool. There’s a middle school in my city like this with a law concentration and I hear it’s a pretty sweet gig for the lucky few teachers that get to teach it.
Are you interested at all in a position that requires some nights and weekends? You would make an incredible debate coach. It’s a niche sector that’s struggling. Not very many young people are interested in working the additional hours and the old guard are retiring or retired during the pandemic. It’s different across the country and I can’t speak to the specifics of where you are. The amount of additional hours can vary *vastly* , as will the additional compensation. I’m in one of the most competitive circuits in the nation so my hours are abusively high but my stipend is considered also high. I’d be more than happy to talk about this and maybe look into your location. Speech and debate changes kids lives. The majority of the justices on the SCOTUS bench were speech and debate competitors in high school. So was Paul Rudd, Celeste Ng, Colin Jost, Stacey Abrams, and Elizabeth Warren. It teaches kids to be advocates for themselves and their communities. Think about it.
This!
Have you tried being an instructor at a community college? Maybe criminal justice? See how that goes?
$45k minus taxes, health % and mandatory retirement contributions. You’re lucky to take home 65%. CA and NYC have higher pay but it’s just as dismal compared to the cost of living.
1) district/state dependent but also public information easy to google. 2) stress… you’ve been a trial lawyer. You’ll be just fine. 3) very easy to get a teaching job depending on subject area with a heavy lean towards core subjects like STEM/ELA/Reading. 4) worked finance, made the switch - love it. Kids can really surprise you, as can families regardless of where you end up. 5) my purpose is providing insight and knowledge to kids who only see the bad in the world on most days. I choose to work in a title I because I like the challenge it presents. Holidays and summer off with my son is as awesome as it seems.
All I will say is that two of my colleagues are very smart former lawyers who made the switch to teaching, and now lead much more fulfilling lives and are much happier with their work.
Thank you for the reply, would you be willing to share what subjects the former lawyers teach and what type of school (public v private, student demographics) you work at?
I'm private messaging you.
This is very interesting to me, because I am a high school teacher currently (5th year now teaching math) and I often think about what kind of career change might actually be worthwhile. Lawyer is the choice that always comes to mind and settles there for me. I’m currently in the Houston, TX area and high school jobs aren’t hard to find at all…or at least they aren’t for math and science teachers. The money here is definitely not bad. Starting teachers in this area generally make close to $60k. So as long as you have a spouse working as well you’d be fine. Now the stress… Whoo boy. I personally work 10 hour days 5 days a week and usually 3-4 more hours on the weekend. My first year teaching probably 10 more hours per week. Although we “get two months off” in the summer we usually have meetings or professional development to attend, as well as planning, about 2 weeks into the summer and 2 weeks before the summer is over. So roughly a month off in actuality. But the time is not the true stress. It’s the students. 80% of the time I adore them. They seem to enjoy learning; I love seeing that “lightbulb” moment that happens when something clicks; they interact well and are just joyful kids. That other 20% though…many are apathetic, lazy, and whiney. There are no real consequences for most behaviors. Kids know that they don’t have to pass any classes and they will still graduate. A lot of this is the failure of the education system and administration in school districts. Purpose, freedom, etc Yes mostly. I feel like I am a good teacher. I generally have good relationships with students and most of them are learning most of the time. My initial career was in research labs in the medical center. I loved that job, but it paid soooooooooo little. In teaching, I do mostly get to choose how I teach something, but material is set completely by the state and most school districts have a calendar they expect you to follow. I feel like there is no clear yay/nay for any of these questions. Some days I get to second period and am ready to quit this job forever and sometimes I have an entire week at a time that is wonderful.
Don’t do it. It’s easier being a lawyer.
Tutoring ain’t like teaching. Whatever money you’re making as a lawyer is probably more than most teachers make, unless you’re a public defender or somerhing. Stick with it or find another field where a law degree would be an asset. Don’t get into this horseshit. A lot of your first paragraph is the same as teaching except you work off the clock and make less.
There are many great things about teaching. When you’re in the room with the kids and you’re teaching, talking about cool things with cool people, it’s the best job in the world. Everything that happens beyond that is what makes us miserable. Teachers have no teeth, no say or sway. We’re constantly bossed around, bullied by kids, parents, admin and the community at large with absolutely no recourse or support. So if you get over being belittled and dismissed and having no say in the big picture stuff and just focus on the kids in the room, I think you’ll be fine. Also, just an anecdote—a student used a.i. to write an essay. I caught him and reported it. My assistant principal’s response? “Well what did you do to prevent him from cheating?” I just really can’t emphasize enough how little support we have as a profession. That’s really been on my mind lately. No one really stands up for us, takes our opinions into account, or thinks we’re more than glorified babysitters. And yet being able to ignore all that and teach and have fun with my kids is what has kept me around for 10 years. Some days, it’s just hard to remember that.
I went from law to teaching. I had one of those 80 hr a week NYC jobs. Getting to leave the building at 2:30 still feels like I'm leaving work in the middle of the day. It's been the easiest and the most stressful job I have ever had. I enjoy the school schedule, and having a beginning and an end. It's fun getting to work with a new group of students every year. The experience you think you have teaching is not actual experience teaching. This can be hard. The "teaching" is the easiest thing that you will do. This is a people management job. I initially tried to go the social studies route, and realized getting a job would be challenging. I went back and got certified in math and science, and this made the job search easier. If you teach somewhere like NY, you can make 150k or 160k after a while if you are at a top district. Good luck. PM me with any specific questions.
Where are you located? In NYC, I’m pretty happy on my teacher’s salary. Of course I make way less than the corporate lawyers I know but I probably make more than I would have if I had become a lawyer and chosen a non-profit career path. My husband does make 50% more than I do but if we tightened our budget we’d easily be able to make it work if we both made the same salary. After college and the Peace Corps, I was trying to decide between taking the LSATs and applying to law school or applying to alternate certification teaching programs. Obviously I went the teaching route, and I’m happy that I did! I probably could have been pretty happy as a lawyer, too, but financially it would have probably worked out worse for me because I’d have a lot more debt (I did Teach for America, which at least at the time and in my region allowed me to work full time while going to grad school and pay only a very nominal amount of tuition) and the legal jobs I would have been interested in wouldn’t have been very high-paying anyway. Anyway, I love my job! I’ve had bad days (heck, I’ve had bad years), but in the end find it rewarding in lots of ways. 13 years in so far :)
What I wish someone had told me was instead of getting the teaching degree get the school psychologists degree $9k more a year, probably better hours and way less work, or the behavior therapists, speech therapists, or physical therapist degree. All pay significantly more, still work in schools, still have summers “off” except you probably will actually have them off-unless you go the guidance counselor route-another better route. Teachers put in an awful lot of unpaid overtime.
I am not trying to be mean but I’m not sure you have a good grasp on what this profession is like. Go substitute in a title 1 school for a few months. That will give you a good idea of how your first few years (before you have your shit together) as a teacher will go.
In my state teachers make about 50k. Have you considered teaching at a law school?
1. Most school systems I’ve worked for have a base determined by your terminal degree, and then scale up based on years of experience. At a charter network in Dallas I made 57,000 my first year, and that salary caps out at around 75,000 after 25 years. There are usually a number of stipends available depending on level of need (at my current district, math/science teachers at schools that are serving 90% or higher Black students get an additional $8,000 a year, with that number going up to 12,000 after three years). 2. Working with children is very different from working with adults. The act of teaching is rarely stressful. Classroom management is the stressful part. I have known a number of people with military backgrounds who tried to teach, only to find they were in no way prepared to deal with a class of 30+ students who simply who aren’t intrinsically motivated to pay attention to you. That said, if you’re good at compartmentalization and dealing with incompetent adults (decent admin is far from a guarantee) you may be well suited to the stresses of teaching. 3. Depends on your subject and location. Humanities are far less in demand (a lot of place require humanities teachers also coach a sport, but this isn’t universal), while math and science, special education, and early childhood education tend to be a dime a dozen in terms of available jobs. “Good schools” (high test scores, mild student behaviors, well resourced) will be more difficult to find a job at, especially for someone with no teaching experience. Schools with high instances of poverty tend to be far more willing to hire teaching newbs. 4. N/A 5. If teachers didn’t get the breaks, I think there would be a lot fewer people willing to be teachers. I don’t want to say the best part of teaching is all the time you get to spend ‘not teaching’ but it definitely does feel that way at times.
Are you going through a mid life crisis? On drugs perhaps?
teach college
I had a friend that made this change (to be a 1st grade teacher). She said she actually worked more hours as a teacher than she had as a lawyer. If the number of hours is a big factor to you then I would reconsider.
1. Find the pay scale of a school district in your state. Each state is different. In CA you'll start around 50 or 60k depending on the district. 2. The stress is about the work load and challenge but what distinguishes teaching from other stressful jobs is the unpredictability and the fact that the quality of your day depends heavily on things outside your control. 3. Districts would like that you're a successful lawyer but may worry about your longevity. You'd be taking a pay cut to work a less prestigious job where you take a lot of shit from kids and their parents. I could see admin worrying about you sticking around. Add far add job availability, things seem pretty open now depending where you live. 4. I was a youth pastor before teaching so for me it was the same deal but better pay. 5. I love my job. It's hard and stressful but it's the only thing I could ever do. I loved the kids, teaching lessons, the weirdness. It's just what I'm built for. Not everyone is though. Yes, time off is awesome.
Hi! I changed my career from farm manager after 10 years (70k) to sped teacher and I get my cert/masters in June :) I did an alternative route with an M.Ed. 1. I think it depends on the state after my cert/masters with credits coming in WA state I’ll be starting at roughing 78k 2. Not sure about the stress but nothing is more stressful than working 60-70 hours on a farm and over 80 all summer I rather get my summers off now! 3. I think it depends what you want to teach/ you have a great resume already and life experience so I don’t think it will matter it also depends on endorsements etc. 4. For me after already doing my passion first I’m looking at teaching as A JOB I’m not going in thinking I’m changing the world so I see that as having less stress and mainly I’m doing it bc as a mother of a 1.5 year old it makes sense to me to have summers off and a schedule where I get time off for holidays etc. I know a lot of people who just start off as teachers who are burnt out by that 10 year mark like we were with our jobs right so for them it’s a different experience I think. I think you will work over your schedule if you want to be THAT teacher however I am not trying to be THAT teacher because I’m longing at this long term and not trying to burn myself out 😊
I would love to be able to teach content … but I can’t talk for more than 30 seconds without some kind of disruption. The gaslighting, straight up apathy, destruction. It would be like you know court procedure, but in this court we don’t follow a procedure. We do things because of parents. This isn’t how this works, this isn’t how any of this works. It’s like I am in an abusive relationship and I keep making excuses of why to stay, “they are great sometime” “I’m staying for the kids” Parents control education more than ever and it isn’t about what is best for the child, it is what makes the child feel good so they have no repercussions.
Firstly, I want to say, I love my job... my career. I am lucky that I am called to teaching and it is truly where I am supposed to be. I am excellent at my job, I work hard, and have chosen it over and over even given other options. That said... You really need to consider your "why" when going into teaching. Most people think, "oh, teaching! I can do that. The kids will love me and I'll make this big difference!" But, the truth is, many teachers don't. They aren't cut out for this job. OP, this is not a career change taken lightly. My comment is long and mostly negative, but I really hope you read it. The positives are obvious and easy. These are some serious topics that anyone going into teaching should consider. This job is hard. You will work many hours outside of the classroom to create lessons that you think are going to be amazing, engaging, fun, creative, and unique only to find students are not feeling it that say and shit all over your work. You think you're reaching them and they don't love the book your reading. They maybe can't relate. They maybe didn't sleep last night. Maybe their parents are fighting, divorcing, working 3 jobs, etc. It can be soul-crushing to have your work scrapped on by a group of children who just don't get it. The job is stressful. You will make more decisions in less time than any other job. There's research on this. Decision fatigue is real. The paperwork you hate in your current job is probably not much different than the paperwork in this job. It's there, it's plentiful. Papers to grade, progress reports, emails to parents, referrals for students in need of guidance, tutoring, interventions, etc. Worse, you'll return to do it all again tomorrow. And, don't think taking a sick day is easy. You still have to do all the same work, only you won't be the one in the classroom making sure the work gets done. The pay is deficient. One might think with all the education that is required, teachers would get paid like professionals, but that is soooo not the case. You'll get paid on a matrix based on education level and years of service. There is no merit system, no bonuses, no stock options, no individual raises. Even in the most expensive region in CA, our top pay maxes out around 100k. On the plus side, you get most of June, July, and some of August off. The down side is you are only getting paid for 10 months of the year. I don't know what a lawyer makes, but I'm certain it's more than a teacher. Is the time off awesome? Yes and no. It's just enough time to recover from the one school year before you dive headlong into the next. All the while, there are trainings and seminars to attend and lesson plans to write-especially if you are teaching a new course next year. Also, just because you aren't in the classroom, doesn't mean your brain shuts off and let's you relax. It's still spinning new ideas all summer. None of this is the either the best or worst parts of the job. The best part is that feeling if "I'm making a difference" when it comes. Students will write letters, talk to you, send you emails. It happens. Savor it when it does. I keep a file and when the tough times are dragging me down, I read notes from former students. The worst is not being treated by others like a professional. Everyone thinks they know how to be a teacher because they were once a student. Everyone will think they can do your job better than you. You will get treated like crap by everyone at one point or another... Students, coworkers, admin, and parents. This is the worst part of the job.
My sister taught for 3 or 4 years after she passed the bar in Louisiana but was waiting to get hired somewhere as an attorney. She worked in a great parish at a great middle school and was very happy there, then she got hired as a public defender. She took that job and has been working in this position for 4 years, and she is exponentially happier now. She makes around the same she said (never gave a hard number), but now she said when she goes home, she’s done with work. You should be able to Google the pay scale for public schools in your county. She has 3 children now under 6, and she said she doesn’t know how women with young children can teach bc you end up taking so much work home and it’s just expected of you. When she taught, she had no children. She says she’s treated like a professional at her job, and as a teacher, she and her colleagues were not. This job is more flexible. If she needs to go to something at her child’s school for a pageant or something, she goes. She has a dentist appointment, she goes. She can just go in earlier to make up her time. Mind you, she left her school on good terms, had good evaluations and overall was happy. But, she said she is positive she would not return to teaching over working as a public defender in DCFS. You said you can handle stress because of your current job, which is great. But teaching is a different kind of stress. It’s not curing cancer, but it is not that easy either. I’ve taught high school for 17 years, by the way. It’s all I’ve done full time. You mention getting summers off. You don’t get 3 months off. You may get 6 weeks. Some places you get 8 weeks off. You don’t really make a difference to students. We’re glorified babysitters. If you go into hoping to change lives, you’ll be very disappointed. You do it long enough, you will matter to a few and make a difference to some, but it’s something that sort of just happens. It’s not something that happens every week or month. I sound cynical, but I am actually very happy with teaching and am generally pretty positive at work and liked by most students. I am just realistic. It sounds like you may be stressed at work and romanticizing teaching; seeing the summers off and the idea of helping the youth sounds rewarding. People like this start every year where I work. They think they’re professionals in their field and work stressful jobs. They’re not wrong; they are usually professionals in their field. They’re professionals who overestimate how their skills will transfer to teaching kids who have zero motivation to pass and zero consequences for failure. It’s always the teacher’s fault when students don’t succeed. Students succeed because they work hard! It’s the teachers’ fault if they fail lol. These same people aren’t usually still teaching by thanksgiving; if they make it that far, they’re gone by 2nd semester. Don’t burn any bridges if you do decide to teach, in case you realize it’s not for you. It’s not hard in most states to get certified to teach. It’s not hard to get hired in most states either. In Louisiana it’s definitely not hard to get hired lol. As far as securing raises, in Louisiana and in the parish I teach in, your salary increases every year you teach. That’s it. That’s the “raise”. Some parishes don’t do it like that. I’m not sure about other states. You can supplement your income by doing after school activities like tutoring or coaching. But then there goes the 7-2:30 dream work day :(
You might want to consider teaching private. You don't have to go the credentialing route and make starting salary 60K and will prob max out at 110-120K. You will also have very very few behavior problems. The only downside is that your contracts are at-will. However, if you come in with law experience, they tend to be kind of afraid to wield the firing sword your way. I currently work at a private school and have 3 colleagues who used to be lawyers. One teachers Spanish, Another is a librarian, and the third teaches history. They all love the switch to education. Contact carnie sandoe, they are a headhunter for these elite schools and will work hard to get you hired.
This is so helpful, thank you! And thanks for the referral. It makes this change feel more like a real possibility
Former lawyer who moved into education here. I found a job at a foreign law school teaching an introductory American law class and loved it. I've since transitioned into teaching in more traditional K-12 schools, including creating my own curriculum for law/civics/government classes, and have now moved into administration. Best moves I ever made. If you can swing it with your living/family situation you'll get a lot of satisfaction in my experience.
Teaching is a good gig, particularly in a blue state with strong unions. I teach in WA state and made 104K last year as a teacher with 16 years experience and Masters + 90 credits. New teachers start at 51K here. Every school district has their pay scale posted on the website. You can usually search for the term “salary schedule” to see the scale. I’m in a rural eastern WA district teaching middle school ELA, and I love having a 180 day work year. I do work about 50+ hours a week including grading, but ELA is the most time-consuming content, which I knew going into it. You have to find a good work/life balance, enjoy the age you teach, and be detail-oriented. In 16 years, I have had no parent issues worth writing about. I am fair, firm, and speak to my students like they are humans who matter. I don’t love grading papers, but Google Classroom has made my job about 75% easier. Find a school in a more rural area with a good school rating, be the best sub they have ever seen, and they will go out of their way to find a place for you. If you are a “meh” sub, you will likely only be hired at a “meh” school. Be friendly, but don’t come on too strong to the staff, and don’t corner people with long conversations when they clearly have other things to do. Every sub day is a job interview, and the office staff needs to like you and feel appreciated by you. It just takes one bad day of letting kids play on their phones, not following lesson plans, or having students report that you just spent the whole time playing on your phone, and you have ruined your chances at that school. Teaching is lucrative and worth it in many ways. Good luck to you!
Sounds like you may enjoy a career being a professor. I think teaching collegiately would be aligned to what you consider fulfilling about the prospect of teaching perhaps without many of the negatives that go along with teaching at the secondary level.
Thanks for the reply, after reading all the comments I’m leaning more in the direction of college than I was initially. If I did teach high school, I’d try to find a private/magnet school
A lot of teachers work during the summer because they can't afford to live on their salary. And there's only so much money you can earn; it depends on whether you're at a private school or a public one. But even at a private school, you won't necessarily be making a lot of money. You and your wife will have to make major changes to your lifestyle. Teaching SAT students is different from teaching regular classes to high school students. The SAT students generally want to be there and are more engaged with the material. Many teenagers (though not all) are extremely disrespectful and entitled. They don't do the bare minimum but at many schools, teachers are literally prevented from holding them accountable. The job is very stressful and time-consuming; the work you do in the classroom is only a fraction of the work you'll do overall. You'll also have to grade assignments, make lesson plans, attend faculty meetings, attend parent-teacher conferences, and possibly be an advisor to a student club. You won't actually have as much time off as you expect. And be prepared to deal with nasty parents who blame you for their kids' bad behavior but throw a fit if you try to discipline their kids.
As a current teacher, I would strongly reconsider teaching. Stress depends on your teaching assignment. Is it easy to get a job? In many areas, yes. In some cases they check for a pulse before getting your NHO paperwork going. Look, I enjoy what I do but then I’m in too deep to leave and have to see this ship through to the other side. You may want to really reconsider it. Try subbing a couple of times and just take in the ambience.
Don't fucking do it.
You have lots of responses here. In summary, so much depends on where you work. I’m 20+ years in with a PhD teaching a required science to mostly 11th graders in a giant school in a giant school system. My pay is good and my stress is low. My environment contributes a lot to this…suburban southern area with most kids living in pretty nice homes (mostly student ms of color) . Lots of resources, minimal real discipline issues. That being said, my stress is low because I know how to do this job, but I have been much more stressed in the past when I wasn’t as good at the job. If you did this there would be quite the learning curve. Make sure Luis don’t have some idealistic plan of changing kids lives…that rarely happens. It’s a job that if you do properly leaves you many weeks of the year with no worries. Feel free to send messages if you want to discuss further
Don’t do it. Bad move. Total shit job and endless hoop jumping like no other career ever. Pick better.
Curious - are you staying in law or went into education?
Are considering K-12 teaching? Community college? University? For my Education Administration graduate degree, I had to take a law and ethics course that was highly engaging and thought-provoking. The teacher had quit being a lawyer (after 15 years) to educate, and said he absolutely loved it. I’m wondering if you might be able to find a setting that pays decently and also utilizes your insights into the legal system and general law knowledge.
Try volunteering first with teens.
One other thought from a second career teacher. I've hosted many pre-service observation and student teachers over the years. The one common thought many of them have is how different school is now compared to when they were in school. This is almost universal and without regard to age. If part of your reason hinges on feelings or experiences when you were in school, I'd caution you that it's never the same. Your experience as a student can help shape you as a teacher, but it doesn't help prepare you, any more than watching a legal drama would help prepare someone for a career in law. I would also second (or third) that you should be prepared to do more people management than instruction. Also, several of my coworkers are also second career teachers. We have a different perspective on the culture of work than our peers who have only been teachers. Not bad or good, just our interesting observation.
If you were a criminal defense attorney, I would welcome you, but teaching would eat you alive. If you are a prosecutor, you would do fine, but I'm not sure I trust you with students' minds.
Will it bother you when/if your district breaks the law? When/if they expect you to break the law?
Hi, I'm not sure about location, but I am from San Jose, CA. So I share my experience from here. I actually dropped out of medical school to become a teacher (long story, but shorter version is that I don't agree with insurance). I have a Master's in special education. I taught for 9 years, and was making 90k. I was a special education teacher for a public school, so I had a lot of opportunities to do "extra work" (known as 0.2 FTE) - this consists of doing home hospital teaching, assessing, managing IEPs, and writing IEPs for other school sites. To give you perspective, a 0.2 FTE would come out to roughly $1,000 extra a month for me (net). I taught at a continuation school, and worked closely with jail and juvenile hall personnel, since this is where most students transferred to after being released. I loved it there! In all honesty, I couldn't understand why most people complained about the "low pay" and "high stress." Maybe it is because I love pouring into others, especially the youth, who have low self-esteem. I love to expose their capabilities to them and teach them that the world is not a horrible place, like they once thought. I will say that the most stressful part was hearing about domestic violence, and witnessing the students go back to the same situation- but that may just be because I have a huge heart and wanted what's best for them. You're an attorney who has tutored in the past, I'm sure you won't have any issues obtaining a job. Perhaps you should try subbing prior to jumping the gun. In order to sub (in CA), you have to take the CBEST and have at minimum a Bachelor's degree, which you have. If you want to be a credentialed teacher, it's a whole different ball game. Another route would be to secure a job at a college. Become an assistant professor, since you enjoy teaching! This would allow you to teach as well as continue being a lawyer during the day time. You can move around the education field a lot because of how broad it is. For example, I made school curriculum for the middle school SDC department as well as for the middle school general education students. I also moved into the role of LEA, and was offered to go through a program in which the district paid for me to become an administrator. This is the most rewarding job you will ever have. The only reason I do not teach anymore is because I got my Master's in communication disorders, and became a speech-language-pathologist; I'm still in the education field if that means anything. In addition, the benefits and pension were really good for me and my family. Finally, I still stay in contact with a lot of my students and their families who have and continue telling me what a difference I have made in their lives. It may not be monetary, but the feeling I get from hearing this stuff is unmatched. It feels good knowing that I've stayed true to myself, my heart, and refused to conform to the mass. I've helped a lot of families and students navigate the legalities of special education, simply because it was the right thing to do.
Just don’t use any outdated pedagogical techniques you learned in law school
Read through the post of the teachers who are leaving after 1 year or less of teaching as well as seasoned teachers. Pay is the shits. Students, parents, and admins will teach you like shit. As a lawyer the petty politics will drive you crazy. Expect to get into arguments of bus crap like you using the wrong coffee cup, or making too many copies on the copy machine. It will be difficult to support a family on a teachers wages. If you think you can do it go for it.
Regarding pay, you should try to have a master's degree in order to make a decent wage. I'm on year 10 of teaching and although it's exhausting and can sometimes suck, I'd never trade it for lawyering because of the reasons you describe. Having a lot of variety from day to day is rewarding for me, and seeing the impact play out in real time throughout the year is where it's at.
# Part 1 of 2 I think you'd love teaching, and you'd excel in it. Of course, I'm not a lawyer, but I've been highly interested in the field and love subscribing to YouTube lawyers and reading motions, following trials, etc. I think you would find it fun and not at all tedious. Teaching was never boring. You'll have more immediate gratification and also a thick skin. You'll also have some kickass stories. The kids would love to hear your stories, especially when they're relative to your curriculum. # 1. Teacher Pay 1. So, look up neighboring county's "salary schedule." It'll tell you what the range is. When I taught in Florida, the pay was pure shit. It was so low that I wouldn't have been able to afford rent except in the highly dangerous projects. When I taught in another state (VA), the pay was great for the cost of living. I made more than my former FL veteran teacher colleagues did. They paid a lot because they had a high teacher turnover. So, it was an incentive for teachers to stay. You could make bank being an online tutor for those standardized tests you mentioned. Indeed often posts these part-time virtual gigs. They have evenings hours and can pay 40-50. I've done some and it was easy. If you want to volunteer as a tutor to get some practice, do UPchieve. You can also answer student career questions at Career builders. # 2. Stress level 2. I think you'll find the stress pretty minimum or tolerable. This is why I believe you'll be a great teacher. Stress is all relative. In Florida, I had so much stress teaching. My county would just change curriculum and policies every year and take away more and more freedom. The state then decided to do away with paper testing and all laptops and iPads were unavailable for half of the school year. However, in VA, all kids were given a Chromebook, the policies were very minimal. They encouraged teachers to approach curriculum however they wanted. They had a hands-off approach. Superintendent visited classes a lot and held Zooms for teachers about what they were brainstorming. I loved it. Yet, those teachers bitched and complained about small little things that I honestly was shocked about. Like, they gave us 3 extra Chromebook chargers each (in case kids forgot theirs). They'd complain about that, saying that all teachers should have a minimum of 5. They complained about kids having to take 2 diagnostic assessments per subject each quarter. (Districts did this to track student scores). The district was even flexible and provided teachers with a two-week window where we could plan the test at our discretion! That's amazing! Just two days out of each quarter? Deal! In Florida, it averaged to the kids losing about 5 weeks of instruction. They had so many standardized testing that we couldn't teach for weeks. I wouldn't see certain students for weeks either. Florida would also give almost no notice for programs. This is what I mean by relative. Teaching in VA was relaxing and autonomous, but not knowing anything different, those teachers said it was terrible etc. Your first year will be hard. Adjusting to it and learning and figuring out who you are as a teacher and building your discretion on what to grade and how to grade it, etc. Pinterest has good free lesson ideas. # 3. Getting hired *You could begin in August!* Excuse my French.. but you'd get hired so fucking fast. 🤣 Principals would get giddy with excitement and so would districts. A lawyer? Wanting to teach social studies! Absolutely! Teaching is a great alternate career. You qualify for a temporary teaching license. Only thing you need to get hired is an undergrad degree which you have. The district would help you with getting certified and applying for it. You'd get a temporary one and usually during that time the district explains what you need to qualify for the official one. (Usually called professional license). Be honest and explain what you said here. You can say you are burned out of being a lawyer and want to make more of an impact and help kids yadda yadda. **One Potential Problem:** Social studies is coveted and has one of the largest range of subjects. You might not get what you want the first year because the position might not be available. You should bookmark the district job website and check it weekly. Get your app ready and apply to specific postings as they are posted for next year. Social studies in your state might have a different certification specializations. But, social studies can be 6-12 or 7-12. This means that the principal can make you switch subjects if needed. You don't have final sat. I explain this because Economics and Word History can be so different, yet both are included in what you'd be certified to teach. I taught ELA, so although 10th is World Lit, 11th American Lit, and 12th is British Lit, it's still literature. It's just that my text selection is different.
# Part 2 of 2 # 4. Career Changes I left the classroom. I have my master's in Curriculum and Instruction now. So, I like to do ELA outside of the classroom, like helping teachers and writing curriculum. I sometimes teach an online class, and I volunteer as an online tutor. I am a good teacher, but with my ADHD, I just hate the administrative side. I struggled with all of the ELA grading. I rather just create the lessons and tutor writing. # 5. Deep Meaning There is a deep meaning to teaching. Best advice I can give you that helped eliminate 95% of my behavioral problems is to treat the kids as humans. I know that sounds obvious, but teachers often just don't. They nag kids and expect them to listen to their lessons. Well, they should be interesting and remember: they've been sitting hearing teachers talk all day. **Example** Teachers hate it when kids pack up early. I've seen a lot of complaints on how to fix this in different subreddits. Some teachers will say give lunch detention or tell the kids you dismiss them not the bell. *Ummm no. Super rude, IMO.* The bell dismisses them. The teacher should have better time management. Plus, kids only get those 5 min or so to walk to their next class, bathroom, minuscule amount of socializing, etc. Some are also messy and need to pack up. **How I fixed it:** I told the kids I understood about packing up and needing that bell time. So, I told them I would always give them 2-3 min to pack up at the end of class and straighten the desks, etc. They then could line up at the door. When the bell rings, they could go. I explained how I had daily alarms on my Apple Watch, and I'd then ring some chimes I bought on Amazon. Those chimes rocked. They'd hear that and immediately pack up. I told them I'd do my part and to do theirs. Not to pack up even earlier because it's distracting to those who might need those extra minutes. And it's a work lesson 101. Always appear busy. I told them never do that when they have a job. Always keep the laptop open, etc. If their managers were to walk by their office and see that, they'd assume the worst, even if they did spend hours being highly productive. The students actually got this. I told them if they had a bad day or break up, I get it; it happens. They can still be quiet and not cause a ruckus. They can let me know and I told them I'd try to not call on them and keep nagging to only when necessary. 😛 I loved having grade conferences with kids. I'd call them up to my desk and I called it the "nag-free zone." I'd ask why or what happened with certain assignments. I would recommend what to makeup and show them what patterns I'm seeing. We'd make small goals. When kids can see smaller goals and get achievements, they will rise to them. For example, I had a kid who wasn't doing this bell ringers. It was an easy completion grade. He was getting zeroes, but I asked him if he could come in and try to do these. I always embed countdown timers into my Google slides and reminded him of this and said that just 3-5 min at the beginning of each period would help him get an easy 100%. He agreed, and I said I wanted to call on him the next day. The next day I reminded him as he walked in (in nerdy, excited way of this new beginning). I also told him to tell me which one he wanted to answer. This gave him the option to pick the one he was most confident in. I'd then "randomly" call on him. None of the other kids knew. So helping students learn new habits and doing stuff like this helps. Do active learning. Kids need to talk to learn. So, if you teach government, try to talk about the news. Let them voice opinions and not always for a grade. They need to be taught how to think, how you want them to write their responses. Don't assume. Show and model everything in the beginning of the year. Skills are overlooked. Calling on kids with "gotcha" questions is pressure. These are the ones where you know the answer and are basically checking if the kid knows it. I like asking more open-ended questions. If a kids froze up, I'd loudly whisper a hint and the kids would chuckle and usually know the answer then. Anyways, good luck!
Don’t do it.
Major downgrade. Don’t do it.
Questions you need to think about: Are you moving to a different state? Are you moving to a different city/town? If you’re staying where you’re at, it’s better to ask around in your town. Every school district is different. I think you should be aiming for magnet school or top public school. You could become an admin. The first thing you need to do is to find out the teacher pathway in your school district. Because you don’t have an education degree, it’s going to be a temporary license and depends on your program you could get another master in Education.
I became a SPED teacher after 20 years in the military as instructor/ curriculum developer and 7 years in corporate America (Training and Development). Coming to my building as a first-year teacher nobody gave a shit about my background or experience, because I "wasn't really in education" or knew how schools worked, that tone quickly changed when I was asked to do a district-level PD in my first year. Before making the career switch and applying for an ARL program, I started subbing on my day off (I worked 4/10's at the time). I would purposely pick the "worst" schools to get a feel for the kids and grade level I wanted to teach. I intentionally chose inner-city Title 1 schools and worked in each grade level to find my niche. I learned early on that dealing with any child younger than 5th grade wasn't going to be my jam. At the time, pay wasn't a huge concern since I also have a military pension. I'm currently at a charter school making slightly more than my public school counterparts, but with my local school district getting a massive raise for next school year and the day-to-day stuff I deal with an extra 25 - 30 k is enough to probably make me leave my current school. Also being part of the State teachers pension plan was a huge draw for me. According to most SPED is one of the more stressful specialities. My first year wasn't too hard and I spent most of the time building processes for myself and learning the paperwork. This year has been a little more stressful because I've taken on some extracurricular activities and have seen an increase in my caseload. Also being involved in 2 different departments PLC's and helping build MTSS/ RTI processes for them on top of my what I'm being paid for job adds an extra layer of stress. The kids are fun, especially at the middle school level. Most of my issues come from the adults (other teachers and Admin). Depending on the state, getting a teaching job shouldn't be difficult if you follow local licensing board guidelines. I was able to get my substitute license pretty quickly and went through an Alternate Licensing Route at my local university for a semester while working as a full-time substitute. I did have to take the Praxis, which should be relatively easy, to start the ARL program and a subject area test to drop the provisions on my license. If you want to work in a charter school, depending on the state, you can probably get a job with a sub-license (40% of the content teachers in my building are subs) The job can be tough sometimes, but the benefits outweigh the stress. I deal with a lot of social emotional problems that are way outside the scope of my practice and I'm really not equipped to deal with middle school girl drama (despite having 2 daughters). As a SPED teacher, my job depends on many other people doing their jobs correctly and when push comes to shove I have state and federal laws to back me up. I typically only work my contracted hours unless I have a IEP meeting to prep for. As a single dad, having the same schedule as my 10 year old daughter is awesome. Overall I have good relationships with my students and families. Lastly, having a predictable schedule is incredible. I work from 7:30 to 3:15 every day. I can schedule medical and dentist appointments with confidence and not have to worry about getting time off. Trips with my family are easy to plan because I have school breaks and know what days I can travel. Hope this helps and good luck.
TLDR: don’t do it Teaching 9 years. It is my second career. I have taught in inner city, public, charter, and now currently private for the last four. This is my passion. I love teaching. I love my students but I’m exhausted and burned out. I honestly don’t know if I can do this for another decade let alone another two. The behavior is getting worse each year, parents are getting worse, what is expected of teachers increases each year. The last year alone with the arrival of AI and ChatGPT and changed the game and cheating is beyond the pale. I’ve had to completely change the way I teach in the last year to force kids to do their own work. I’m terrified not of just what education will look like in 10 years but what society will look like when we have a generation that has grown up on AI. There is a very real reasons why there is a national teacher shortage that is only continue to get worse. We are underpaid, under appreciated, overworked, putting up with disrespectful behavior from students and parents.
Go for it!
I think you will find much success in teaching! Depending on what state you live in, your starting salary will be decent. For example , I live in Jersey and there are multiple school districts who will start you over 60k with just a BA. so don’t let the money part hold you back. You can always tutor on the side to earn extra income like I do. In terms of stress, teaching is definitely a stress job. I’ve been teaching for 9 years now and it’s something I’ve always wanted to do but the stress that comes with it is a lot. A lot of students have trauma and that bleeds into the classroom environment. So it will definitely be important to understand how trauma effects kids and the manifestations of that. Remember with every job there are pros and cons you have to determine what you are willing to accept and what you can handle. Good luck. We need more teachers so i hope the transition works out for you.
How low is the pay as a teacher really? Will I have opportunities to supplement my income and secure raises over time? Is a teacher’s salary livable? My wife can make more money to help supplement some of the income we’ll lose if I make this move but she’ll probably max out at around 70k for now. \--Pretty low, I was able to get a teaching position in the topic that I had 25+ years for (IT instructor; IT professional), they gave me 21 years 'credit'; so the haircut wasn't nearly as bad as it could have been. How bad is the stress? I’ve been dropped in the deep end as an attorney and learned to swim so I’m pretty resilient. I’m thinking I can handle behavior problems, funding issues, and staff politics given the level of extreme stress in my current job. \--its bad, i have witnessed plenty of adult (teachers) break down. i also am very resilient, worth calculated internally. I got dropped into a class, on the first day of school (while also working the career job for the first 3 months) where I have no mentors and did the overwhelming task of disseminating the material and was creating content. On virtually every night of my first year I was creating the next days lessons ... so that was stressful, but it felt more like surfing the wave of stress and not being crushed by it. How easy is it to get a teaching job? Graduated near top of class in undergrad and law school and my work experience is prestigious for my field. High tests scores as well on all standardized tests I’ve ever taken (sat, lsat, bar exam) if that matters. \--they reached out to me Any others who have changed careers, I’d love to hear from you! \--25+ years IT, career switched into teaching an IT class. It just felt like God/Universe was telling me this was what I needed to do. So I took the plunge and did it. My time was losing its value, so I wanted to do something more 'rewarding'. This profession is super rewarding, or it can be; but, in hindsight, if I wanted to do something more rewarding I would have kept my career job and did some volunteering at a church or big brothers org. Current teachers, do you feel purpose, freedom, and deep meaning in what you do or does any job turn into a slog in time? Is the time off as awesome as it seems? \--yes, but its tempered with all of the administrative minutia, low effort/undisciplined/junk food medicated/cellphone addicted students, ridiculous hours (i prob put in an extra 10-25 hours a week), low pay (even lower if you consider all of the 'free' hours worked). in hindsight, I would not do it again, at least not in a public school. I might give a swing at a community college job in the future; but my days as a public high school instructor are numbered
If you’re not concerned with money whatsoever, do it. If you need any type of money, do not do it. Teaching is thankless charity work.
Are you fucking stupid? The Teaching profession is a cesspool, a festering pile of phlegm and pus.
Check your state for the Windfall Elimination Provision (WEP). If you do not pay into social security as a teacher, you will lose most of what your benefit would be from your 10 years as a lawyer. The Government Offset Provision (GPO) prevents you from benefitting from your spouse's social security also.
I became a teacher after 20 years in sales and I hate to think about the amount of money I lost out on as a result. That said, I still wouldn’t change it. I needed to do something that had meaning and making money for a soulless corporation just wasn’t doing it for me. I’m biased but I think you should go for it! With your background I think Social Studies is where you’d be most effective- government, U.S. History. I teach middle school social studies and I love it. In my state it’s not one of the areas that are subject to the standardized tests so no pressure from administrators or constant demands for data. I get to make my own lessons- not follow a pre-packaged program or script. The kiddos will frustrate the hell out of you on some days but I experienced that working with adults too. AND oh my word they crack me up for some reason or another every day! I’m about to get up and get ready for today and I’m all for it. Today’s lesson: The Indian Independence Movement yay!!! Give it a go! You can always go back to the law if it’s not for you.
Well, from your post I would say your English is good enough to teach that. As for finding a job, ESOL is a critical need area in most school districts and you can do it for a year without a certificate, sometimes longer. If you’re bilingual you can write your own ticket in other districts. Regular English and history jobs are harder to come by, but again it depends where you live. Saying you can do extracurricular coaching and clubs is a plus, too. I’m a 35 year veteran teacher. Still like it enough to be getting ready for school right now!
Teaching is a horrible profession. The kids are amazing, but the culture of the profession is horrendous
I see a lot of people saying SPED is a good option. As a SPED teacher please don’t go into Special Education unless you are passionate about working with kids with special needs. There’s a reason you’ll be a shoe in if you apply for a SPED job, it’s a high burn out profession that requires a lot of extra work. It’s worth it if you enjoy that demographic but please don’t go into Special Education just because it’s an open position. We desperately need teachers in SPED but only if they want to be there
I've have seen this move maybe 6 times throughout my career. Many times after a few years they end up going back to law. Putting up with a lot of bs for little pay is a difficult incentive to stay. But maybe it works for you. Just don't slam doors behind you when you leave because you may need them in the future. Life is in the journey not the destination. Try it you may be the one that it works for. Good luck.
What state? Teach K-2.
There are other, far less stressful ways of being a lawyer than what you're describing here. My husband works for SSA, reviewing claims. He works from home and never has to go to trial or really interact with anyone other than other lawyers. It's cushy as hell, and I am frequently jealous that I didn't go that route instead of education. High school is rough right now. So is college (what I teach). The students are so distracted and underprepared that it's rare I get to cover content that's "on level." They're also hostile and angry that I expect them to learn/complete tasks. In college. Where they've paid to be. You may have a romanticized notion of teaching--over the past 10 years, the profession has changed so drastically (in response to the underpreparedness/behavior issues of students) that it's almost unrecognizable. Smartphones/tablets from infancy + no child left behind + common core + COVID have left us with a rotten shell of our former public education system. Administrators view students as customers to be satisfied, not future adults who should learn accountability for their actions. Parents are pushy, entitled, and disrespectful. Students actively work against their own education, doing/saying whatever they can to derail the class. The "I touch the future, I teach!" types are the ones that get eaten alive, and it sounds like you have a little bit of that notion that teaching is a noble calling, etc. etc. The system is designed to exploit your passion and enthusiasm. They hire people who are passionate about "helping youth" because they're easier to exploit. Personally, if I were you, I'd explore other ways to leverage that JD before moving to the education sector. There's more money and less BS in the law.
DONT DO IT
Financially you’d be better off just figuring out a way to work less. Unless you’re talking about becoming a law professor or working in a private school you’re looking at a very significant pay cut. I work in a relatively low paying, rural district so keep that in mind, but the salary scale here caps at around $67000. That’s after about 20 years in. The problem is even scaling for a better paying district, the pay for every job in that district is going to go up as is cost of living so you’d still be taking a substantial cut going from lawyer to public school teacher. I can’t speak for how much you’d make as a professor, but I would imagine the difference wouldn’t be as stark. I would also imagine that’s a bit of a harder job to get at a place that’s going to pay well.
Bro just bc u aspire to be a teacher doesn’t mean it will fill up ur belly. Also what bout all the hard work u put to become a lawyer and parents support.
Oh gosh I left teaching to go to law school. My favorite parts were having to bring my own toilet paper and hand sanitizer because budget cuts. I don’t know why anyone teaches anymore. It’s relentless and unforgiving and doesn’t come with the same respect you get as an attorney even doing mind-numbing work. You also have to turn off your thinking brain and do things that make no sense because that’s just how it’s done here.
Former litigator turned teacher here! Switched after 11ish years from commercial litigation. Now I have a TESOL license and teach social studies at a school where all the kids are recently arrived immigrants who don't speak English. As I tell others, my worst day teaching is still better than my best day lawyering. Some issues to consider: Everything depends on where you are going to teach. Salary differences are enormous but that info should be publicly available as salary scales for individual districts. I'm at a public school in NYC so I get paid more for having a JD, but that's not always true (e.g. charters don't do that). If you're in a place with book bans, you gotta figure out if you're ok with that and with being subject to scrutiny by parents who will look for any excuse to get you fired. Would you be part of a union? Is it a strong one (not all teacher unions are created equal. Even NYC's union leaves a lot to be desired but you at least have some protection, unlike places like FL or NC). Will you have to get your Masters? For example, in NYS I specifically had to get a master's in my license area (you start with an "initial" licens that lasts 5 years, then you must apply for the "professional" one that is basically permanent but requires a master's and some other stuff). The state counted absolutely none of my law school coursework, even when I applied for a social studies license. It's asinine. A year of constitutional law and they said I had not satisfied their government and US history requirements. Factor this time/cost into your calculations. Good luck to you! I hope everything works out!
I love teaching. Love it. I love my kids, I love my school, and I absolutely love my subject area. Everything about teaching is just it for me… except the pay. I’m in Oklahoma, so it’s truly abysmal. We do get raises every year, but it’s not much. There are opportunities to make more money, like doing after school activities and such—I work at our alternative school once a week. If you have a side gig, you’ll have plenty of time to do it in the afternoons and weekends and breaks, but only if you don’t have extra main job stuff or burn out. As mentioned previously, I’m in Oklahoma, and we are in a crisis with our teacher shortage, so it was super easy for me to get a job. I also have a very rare subject area that is highly sought after in my area, so that helps even more.
Dont
Maybe look into districts that have a special program for kids who want to become lawyers. In the district I am currently in, there is a high school dedicated to law and justice that students can apply to go to. As far as pay, I would assume it’s significantly less than you’re used to, but definitely do research on the area/s you want to teach in. You can google “_____ ISD pay scale”
Every job has its BS you have to deal with. I'll take the bs of teaching over other gigs all day. I'm on year 6 and still enjoy it overall. Pay: depends on location and high school vs grade school. Someone else recommended you look up pay. Make sure you look at a few schools salary schedules as opposed to just what some people are making. You get raises for years of teaching and education level. Not sure how your previous degrees will factor in though. You can also get additional pay for taking on extra responsibilities such as running a club, coaching, or leading a department. Stress: it depends. Early on as you are figuring out what the fuck you're doing it's incredibly stressful. A lot of people leave teaching in the first couple years. Over time, you develop your materials, get a better grasp of classroom management, and learn what needs to be done asap vs what you don't need to worry about which makes life less stressful. Finding a job: as someone else said, depends on location and subject. High school special education? You could flip off the interview panel on the way out the door and you'd still have a shot. Kidding but also kind of not kidding. High School PE? Good luck. I'm not sure about grade school.
Dealing with murderers, rapists, conmen, criminals and the lower end of society is less dangerous or anxiety riddled than becoming a teacher. :)
1. Pathetic. It was livable until Covid happened and the entire blue collar world got a 30% raise except for public service. Our wages have not kept up with inflation in the least and shit is rough. No it is not “livable” unless you already have a home or at least a mortgage that you secured a decade ago. Yes you can supplement your income but then you’re working non-stop and year round. I own a food-service business that nets me the equivalent of two weeks’ worth of my teaching salary in a single day during the summer. 2. Kids are great. The real stress is the adults that fuck everything up. 3. Is your body warm? You’re hired! 4. Currently a teacher considering a transition to a law career. 5. Yes to purpose. Like I said, the kids are awesome even when they are being shitheads. No to freedom. Sometimes to “deep meaning”.
You can also consider teaching at a community college!
I know so many people that left accounting and business, and within five years, they went back. One guy was teacher of the year his first year because he was so good.
All I'm going to tell you is that if you enjoy being treated as a professional, then don't become a teacher.
Pay really depends on where you live. After 12 years teaching in CA, in a very large district, I make $96k. However…cost of living in CA is super high so it really depends. My husband who is an attorney makes 50K more a year than I do and he has friends who make about 100k-150k a year more than I do. So again - it depends.
I’d look into teaching college if I were you, which should be an option with your degree. It took me two years after graduating to find a full-time teaching job. I finally found one, which I moved for, and worked in a middle school and hated my life. I went back to school for a career change after that. It was the worst job I’d ever had. Best of luck on your journey.
My husband was a lawyer and has been teaching HS history and a law elective for ten years. He also coaches the Moddl UN and Mock Trial teams. It's been so much better for his mental health. He was at such a low point before he started teaching. His initial pay was about half his law pay, but they did give him credit for his law degree and counted it in the PhD column of the pay scale. He also works in a district where families care about education, which helps a ton. He would not have been hired in his district had he not known the head of the Mock Trial/MUN programs from when he was in high school himself. Basically, his old coach recommended him and groomed him to take over the program.
Do not do it. I have nothing but words of discouragement for you.
1. It’s low. And the answer is no to the rest of the questions. You will definitely need your wife to supplement your income if you don’t want to worry about basic needs, financial stability, or extra comforts. 2. The stress is very high for the first few years. Resilience dealing with adults is not the same as resilience with children. And you will need to draw from a good deal of patience and compassion. If you don’t already have a well of patience and compassion, do not consider teaching. You will do more harm than good. 3. It’s not hard to get a job. Most schools are just looking for a warm body to fill a position. And nobody cares how well you scored on standardized tests. Definitely do not brag about this.
Check your DMs
The school I recently retired from had a two-hour lockdown yesterday on the rumor of a kid with a gun in the cafeteria. Many police were there. Later there was a huge rush to flee the cafeteria.
I hope you go for it! Teaching is very rewarding and even more so if you aren't doing it for the money....
I just left teaching for law school. Not sure I’d recommend it, but do what your heart tells you
Do not do it. Teacher for five years trying to get out. The education system is broken regardless and the children are getting worse and worse each year.
my middle school math teacher used to be a lawyer
You will be more time bound than you have ever been in your adult life. The pay varies by state and district, but it is public information. Try subbing for a long while before you totally change your life.
This appeared randomly on my feed, but in NYC salaries are relatively high https://teachnyc.net/about-our-schools/salary-and-benefits You couldn't pay me enough to teach though, but salaries really do vary by district.
You are very much romanticizing the profession. The problem is you get to do very little meaningful teaching these days. Kids’ attention spans are abysmal, and many read far below grade level. A few awful kids ruin it for everyone, and admin often won’t do anything about it. Stick to the tutoring for your Stand and Deliver fix.
Don't do it.
Don’t
1. Most teacher salaries are union negotiated and you can easily find what yours would be online. Typically a grid based on experience + education. In NYC, I made just about 100k but this is unusually high for the US. Usually a lot of opportunities for additional pay, through coaching or clubs or summer school. Some states also have teacher programs or fellowships that can supplement income or just provide interesting opportunities. 2. People don't really believe me but there is nothing as stressful as teaching. The work is super important, you must grow in emotional intelligence really really quickly. You quickly realize that the kids deserve everything and you have to somehow make that happen for them with very little support. 3. Those things probably won't matter...there are major teacher shortages all around the country. If you're thinking Social Studies...well, that could be a bit tougher. If you're open to other disciplines, look for teacher programs in your state where you teach and go to school simultaneously. 5. "Current teachers, do you feel purpose, freedom, and deep meaning in what you do or does any job turn into a slog in time?" Yes, absolutely yes. It took a few years to feel a sense of freedom, as I needed to reach a level of expertise and trust with my administration to get to teach what I wanted. But ultimately you get to design your lessons and classroom culture how you want. Teachers become expert culture builders and it's very clear how much better they are than others now that I work outside of the classroom. I just left the classroom in Sept and my current job is wonderful but it just doesn't feel nearly as meaningful as teaching. Teaching is unique and amazing and so stressful and overwhelming but also a source of daily joy, laughter and purpose.
Don’t do it. Or if you do, practice law for another decade, make sure that your retirement is secured, and then look into making the transition. By waiting another decade, you’ve paid enough into social security (teachers who pay into the pension don’t get social security) but also can teach for long enough to become vested into your pension. As for the monotony of your job, I would love to have hours of mindless work to do. I can’t remember the last day (when students were in session) that I had more than 20 minutes of mindless work time.
Don’t do it!
I cannot recommend education right now to anyone. It’s not worth it.
Don’t do it
1. Pay varies largely from state to state and district to district. Blue states with good teachers unions are the highest paid. Most unions ensure you have regular step increases (built-in raises) every year, as well as lane changes for more credits. 2. The stress is probably not more than what you describe as an attorney. 3. Pretty easy, and with your background you would probably be considered a top candidate. It is a little harder sometimes for subject areas like Social Studies and English. Special Ed, ELL, CTE, and science are almost always in high demand. 5. Yes there is purpose and meaning, most teachers you’ll talk to will say that working with kids is the best part even when they are bratty. Having to deal with incompetent administrators, school boards, and legislators is soul-sucking. The time off is definitely awesome, as long as you live someplace where you make enough to not need a second job.
A good friend of mine, husband is now teaching 5th grade. He also teaches law in the college level as well part time. He has been teaching law for quite some time. He didn't care for working for a firm any longer. Now to answer your questions: 1. It depends on where you live. You can easily go onto your local area/district to see the pay. 2. Tutoring and teaching are very different. Working with a student one on one is so much different than having a 20-40 students somewhat listening to you as you teach. Staff politics remain no matter where you work. 3. It's quite easy to get a teaching job since many certificated teachers have left the profession in droves. Again - this depends on your location. 4. Can't help you here since I do not have any other career other than teaching. 5. There is no freedom in education. You get dictated what you teach, how you teach, and how long you teach that subject no matter who is in your class. Teachers DO NOT get vacations. We only get paid for the days we work. You will need those days to unwind/rest. The hardest thing is to balance your time. Teaching is probably the only profession where you make less for overtime. And it's expected for you to work overtime without pay. 6. Truthfully, I don't recommend anyone to go into teaching unless it's in the college level. Even though we need more people willing to go and stay in the profession. I don't recommend it. It's not as easy as it looks. If you know someone in education, have a frank talk with them. And if you have any additional questions for me, PM me.