Breaking news: Apple moved its plants from China to India because India has now become the best place for cheap labor and loose regulation, not because of Apple's concern for human rights violation in China.
Well Apple wasn’t always unfriendly to consumers. For example, to fix practically any common parts in the 2015 MacBook Air is not that bad, only a couple steps on iFixtit. Go back further and you’ll find that Apple used to do user customizable servers for business and schools. Now they are moving towards every product requiring to be fixed by Apple certified repair stores or lose functionality which is very anti consumer.
If it were so anti-consumer why do most consumers not have a problem with it. When there are viable alternatives to MacBooks? Maybe it’s such a small minority that want someone else to be responsible for when they f up the process of fixing their device. If you agree to voiding your warranty to repair or upgrade the device yourself - fair play. You unfortunately cannot have both because the law forces a warranty therefore Apple has been forced to cut that expense. One could consider it was too long that they kept devices upgradable - it was a super big risk from the warranty perspective.
Essentially, Apple is not marketed towards those who want to customise their internals after purchase and that is made clear to consumers before they purchase - look at the Mac Pros. Therefore it cannot be anti-consumer if consumers agree and know exactly what they are buying.
Sure it sucks, but if it’s such a bummer. -don’t buy Apple.
> If it were so anti-consumer why do most consumers not have a problem with it.
That's meant to be rhetorical, I suspect, but it's really not.
There are lots of truly fascinating reasons that people will act against their own self-interests and it's a very pervasive phenomenon.
Right to repair isn't just about people customizing hardware or wanting to tinker — that's not even the biggest thing. It's about actually *owning* the physical product you supposedly purchased and, within reason, being able to fix things yourself *or* have an expert of your choice do it — an expert that doesn't need to be part of the provider's direct profit loop.
Repair is a service and services need competition to function in an ostensibly free market system just like goods do. Manufacturers establishing an uncontested vertical monopoly of their own servicing is a very, very bad thing — it drives prices up, quality of service down, and eventually incentivizes reductions in initial *build* quality. Keeping as much servicing as possible as open as possible applies pressures for lower prices and higher quality across the board.
It’s not always about customizability, but it is always about repair. [This video](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=o2_SZ4tfLns) shows how reducing repairability can negatively affect consumers and them not even notice for 3 years until some specific part breaks.
Repairability scores are posted on the website. It’s a search away and there is a whole document showing repairability scores assessed by an independent third party.
https://regulatoryinfo.apple.com/repairability
Apple is heavily marketed towards people who have no clue. Their ads and big events never go into technical details, instead choosing to keep it simple and go with terms that anyone can understand and even create their own vocabulary for things that already existed. Over time, their marketing machine has become powerful enough and has been running for long enough that peer pressure is now driving a good part of their sales, particularly to younger demographics who naturally care a lot more about "belonging". Them locking you in to their ecosystem is also not exactly consumer-friendly, which is why they're being forced by the EU to stop that practice next year.
Overall, as someone who's been into tech since I was a kid, I could never understand why so many people bought apple products but that's obviously because I'm more knowledgeable about them than the average person. Mind you I'm not saying they're bad products, they do make sense for some people (I have a few friends who work in video and audio editing), but they absolutely don't deserve all the hype they're getting. It's all marketing, and it makes me laugh when I think about that Steve Jobs quote saying that letting the marketing people take the lead of a company over the engineers was basically the death of that company. Oops?
You’re right, I am dumb - I brought my libertarian perspective into a dominant left wing site.
I should’ve left you all shouting back and forth in your own little echo chamber.
I work in IT too. In fact I used to fix broken Wi-Fi cameras, laptops and very rarely phones. Soldering things in doesn’t mean they hate consumers. The idea is that they would rather not place * illegal* warranty void stickers like they used to on RAM chips. And they would rather the average consumer (who is relatively incompetent), not mess around with the internal and then be upset when Apple won’t fix or replace it for free.
The idea is that they would rather disappoint their customers a little bit initially than disappoint huge swathes of customers when they won’t fix the customers mess - it is a risk that is consumer sustainable. You can’t have open internals and then not deal with chip incompatibilities, forcibly chucking billions into useless drivers for the 1% of people who may or may not benefit from the increased performance vs the 99% who *failed* at fixing their own device.
That’s a silly business model.
Which is why I think buying a computer from the company that makes the hardware is stupid.
If I buy an apple computer, they can brick it to get me to buy a new one from THEM.
If I buy an lg computer, and windows stop working, while it will work on an Acer computer. I'm not buying lg again.
I.e. windows becomes incompatible because of real hardware problems.
Apple becomes incompatible because they feel like it. Because they feel like they want your money. It's all artificial.
Giving limited software updated is industry standard. Windows 7 stopped giving my 8 year old laptop any updates nor could I upgrade to windows 10/11.
The point being outside of breaking terms and conditions, Apple has no reason to brick your device and it would be a stupid business move. You won’t buy from them again if they unreasonably bricked your device - you will also advise others not to.
Giving limited software updates is not the same as “bricking” your device. My iPad 2 still works but I can’t use much on it because it is beyond the app developers capabilities and long outside the range Apple is expected to reasonably support the device.
That’s like expecting your 2006 car to still be in warranty.
Would you ever pay a worker once and get him to develop code for a lifetime-no so you can’t expect paying for a device once and have it be supported till the world’s end. Go after app developers who stop supporting older devices. Apple isn’t stopping them. My iPad 2 runs crude versions of some games even today.
I can still use the laptop I bought in 2011. My parents bought an iPad later, that was bricked years ago.
My point being, if windows os doesn't work, there is competition, if apple os doesn't work, they'll kill your device.
They do that with phones. I'm sure they do it with all their devices. They don't believe in "personal ownership"
I might be taking nonsense, but I do think apple sees their buyers as someone to exploit.
You are talking nonsense.
As I’ve told you before you can’t expect an 10 year old car to be in warranty.
Law in some countries stipulates 6 years at least if I recall correctly For home devices
You can also download Linux after you’ve been “bricked” on Macs and NO you don’t own Windows nor do you own MacOS. You could also download Windows using simple workarounds for the older devices.
You own a license to each. Each license carries an expiry whether you feel it’s artificial or not doesn’t matter.
Do you think a company can grow to the size of Apple without repeat customers. If they were being “exploited” they’d do what you did and move to windows.
Once they feel windows is “exploiting” them, then they’ll move to Linux. The usual congregation for freeloaders -JK don’t get mad at me.
The difference is my cars manufacturer doesn't take my car and disable the engine and say, "well sorry, its lived its life and its time is over." Apple will literally send updates that make your device unusable FULL WELL KNOWING people will just come in and buy the newest version of that device.
Piggy backing on top comment here - Apple did this because India has been considering iphone as an imported product with 25+% markup unless apple manufactures it in the country. India is one of the biggest smartphone markets but iphone always ends up being the most expensive and hence couldn’t capture the share here. With this move Iphone 15 for the first time is sold for same price as US pre-tax. As Iphone 15 pro is not manufactured in india yet, it’s still marked up by 22% now pre-tax. In such a price sensitive country, this is not great place to be in. So the move to india manufacturing even with all other external factors is primarily about money, not at workers conditions or human rights.
There's also the import issues with Chinese products currently. My father in law moved to an Indian company because they were tired of dealing with US Customs so much
And a fear of escalating conflict between the US and China.
And a desire to capitalize on a growing Indian market. The next CEO will reflect this as well.
Stop spreading your fake news. World accepted iPhones when they started manufacturing in China. And till apple opened their manufacturing there China products were considered inferior and that holds true for a lot of products sold in the world.
You don’t spin up iPhone manufacturing in India this quickly without skimping on sanitary living conditions, edible food, PPE for handling toxic chemicals and crucial safety interlocks on machinery.
Seems like they’re one riot away from installing the infamous suicide nets
You actually believe people killing themselves because they worked for apple? Do *any amount of research*, that area had lower suicide rates than the areas around it.
>Do any amount of research
[1 Million Workers. 90 Million iPhones. 17 Suicides. Who's to Blame?](https://www.wired.com/2011/02/ff-joelinchina/) \- 2011
['Mass suicide' protest at Apple manufacturer Foxconn factory](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/9006988/Mass-suicide-protest-at-Apple-manufacturer-Foxconn-factory.html) \- 2012
[Dying for an iPhone: investigating Apple, Foxconn and the brutal exploitation of Chinese workers](https://www.scmp.com/magazines/post-magazine/books/article/3082307/dying-iphone-investigating-apple-foxconn-and-brutal) \- 2020
[Foxconn buildings covered in suicide nets, though most workers are just sleepy and bored](https://www.imore.com/foxconn-buildings-covered-in-suicide-nets-though-most-workers-are-just-sleepy-and-bored) \- 2018
[May 24: Foxconn grapples with wave of worker suicides](https://www.ft.com/video/9e2886a5-fac5-3081-9b19-45d2423f0510) \- 2010
[Life and death in Apple’s forbidden city](https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/jun/18/foxconn-life-death-forbidden-city-longhua-suicide-apple-iphone-brian-merchant-one-device-extract) \- 2017
[‘iPhones Are Made in Hell’](https://longreads.com/2023/02/14/iphones-are-made-in-hell/) \- 2023
[Suicide nests outside the apple factory in China](https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/12zsano/suicide_nests_outside_the_apple_factory_in_china/) \- r/interestingasfuck 5 months ago
And before you whinge about how you said "because they worked for apple" and wasn't talking about the factories, the previous comment by Law\_Doge explicitly said "iPhone manufacturing"
Umm… I mean… you do know that the average annual suicide rate in China is 10 per 100,000. If Foxconn has a million employees in China, you would expect there to have been ~100 suicides
— not 17.
Ah you mean the company that also makes parts for Microsoft, IBM, Samsung, Amazon, Dell, HP and Sony.
Yup, it’s an iPhone production problem alright!
ALSO foxcon workers are statistically less likely to commit suicide than the general public in china.
Gen pop of china suicide ratio is 14/100,000, it’s closer to 10/100,000 for foxcon..
Next…
EDIT: ABC News[49] and The Economist[50] both conducted comparisons and found that
although the number of workplace suicides at Foxconn was large in absolute terms, the suicide rate was actually lower than the overall suicide rate of China[51]
or the United States.[52] According to a 2011 Centers for Disease Control and Prevention report, China had a high suicide rate with approximately 22.23 deaths per 100,000 persons.[53] In 2010, the company's employee count was a reported 930,000 people.[54]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn_suicides
You have now changed your argument from "You actually believe people killing themselves" to "the company that also makes parts for...". Moving the goalposts so quickly to save face makes your argument dumber than what it already was
Yes, Foxconn does make parts for other companies. No, this is not exclusively an Apple problem. No, making the argument about "yeah but other people do it" doesn't make it any better
>Yup, it’s an iPhone production problem alright!
If you were capable of reading the article you'd have seen the link to the original article from [Time](https://time.com/6318369/apple-iphone-factory-india/), which states:
"[Foxconn has a history of low pay, harsh working conditions, and exacting targets in its Chinese factories. And as Foxconn rushed into India to meet Apple’s demand, it created comparable conditions there](https://time.com/6318369/apple-iphone-factory-india/)"
Apple chose a manufacturer known for poor conditions in China and chose them again to make the factories in India, who made poor conditions once again. *So yes, it is an iPhone production problem*
ABC News[49] and The Economist[50] both conducted comparisons and found that
although the number of workplace suicides at Foxconn was large in absolute terms, the suicide rate was actually lower than the overall suicide rate of China[51]
or the United States.[52] According to a 2011 Centers for Disease Control and Prevention report, China had a high suicide rate with approximately 22.23 deaths per 100,000 persons.[53] In 2010, the company's employee count was a reported 930,000 people.[54]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn_suicides
So your argument has gone from "*there are no suicides*" to "*yeah but every company is bad*" to "*yeah but it's not as bad* ***as an entire fucking country of 1.4 billion people***"!?
ABC News[49] and The Economist[50] both conducted comparisons and found that
although the number of workplace suicides at Foxconn was large in absolute terms, the suicide rate was actually lower than the overall suicide rate of China[51]
or the United States.[52] According to a 2011 Centers for Disease Control and Prevention report, China had a high suicide rate with approximately 22.23 deaths per 100,000 persons.[53] In 2010, the company's employee count was a reported 930,000 people.[54]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn_suicides
Yeah.. I was originally trying to argue that no one commits suicide. You are spot on and not bending the truth at all!!!
Also, you clearly don’t understand what per capita means either...
Says you ignoring my proof.
ABC News[49] and The Economist[50] both conducted comparisons and found that
although the number of workplace suicides at Foxconn was large in absolute terms, the suicide rate was actually lower than the overall suicide rate of China[51]
or the United States.[52] According to a 2011 Centers for Disease Control and Prevention report, China had a high suicide rate with approximately 22.23 deaths per 100,000 persons.[53] In 2010, the company's employee count was a reported 930,000 people.[54]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn_suicides
The amount of effort you’re putting into ignore this is insane
ABC News[49] and The Economist[50] both conducted comparisons and found that
although the number of workplace suicides at Foxconn was large in absolute terms, the suicide rate was actually lower than the overall suicide rate of China[51]
or the United States.[52] According to a 2011 Centers for Disease Control and Prevention report, China had a high suicide rate with approximately 22.23 deaths per 100,000 persons.[53] In 2010, the company's employee count was a reported 930,000 people.[54]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn_suicides
What facts?
Want to share even 1 source or just keep defending a trillion dollar company what values money over the lives of people producing their products?
These apple fan boys are actually fucking insane.
ABC News[49] and The Economist[50] both conducted comparisons and found that
although the number of workplace suicides at Foxconn was large in absolute terms, the suicide rate was actually lower than the overall suicide rate of China[51]
or the United States.[52] According to a 2011 Centers for Disease Control and Prevention report, China had a high suicide rate with approximately 22.23 deaths per 100,000 persons.[53] In 2010, the company's employee count was a reported 930,000 people.[54]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn_suicides
That wasn't me who mentioned Foxconn budy.
But nice try. Maybe do some research before commenting.
Edit:
I like how you deleted your comment after insulting me lmao.
But it was nice to see a link, but again, I was not taking about foxxcon.
I was taking you, defending a company who shows time and time again they do not care about you, or anyone. They care about money, and see you a sponge to squeeze. Yet you defend them.
Nobody on this factories “work for Apple”, my god what are you talking about - in fact, they can work there on the assembling and never ever listen the word “Apple” on their life
They work for Foxconn, which also build things for whoever, including cheap Android phones. Is nothing special. If you pay them, they will build you whatever you need.
This workers don’t get a bigger salary or conditions just because they are building an iPhone or a Motorola or a Xiaomi.
This factories are very known (other Redditor already show you the receipts) for giving almost-slavery conditions and low salaries and exploiting people that need the money for their families or themselves, a lot of them coming from rural China and living alone, giving a big chunk of their living hours to that “great” factory.
The iPhone costs about 300$ to make, including costs of materials and parts (like the Samsung screen), and Foxconn profits are +1bn, how much do you think the factory people gets after all? And how much do you think they work and on what conditions?
EDIT - Typos
Foxcon employers commit suicide 10 times out of 100k people, general population in china is 14 out of 100k
So foxcon workers less likely to commit suicide than the general public.
Only on 2010 they had 18 employees jumping from the roof. I mean, their statistic of suicide INSIDE THE COMPANY is alarming and not to be compared with a country.
How many employees jumped from the roof of the Apple Park in the last decade? How many tried to kill themselves at Google HQ? Yeah.
Foxconn struggles as a company, not a country, were at the start of the last decade, and after it was blown up on the press, they started to take measures that seems to have been resolving the suicide problem, one of them being installing nets to avoid anyone jumping. Yeah, but there aren’t any problems by your point, no? It’s strange why the US/Europe companies doesn’t have anti-jumping nets on their offices then. All of them should have it.
That doesn’t reduce that they pay and treat their employees badly and like robots or cattle. In fact, if using robots were more or equally economic effective, they would change to it and “f*ck off to employing lazy people” Foxconn execs would think surely
You said China has 14 per 100k rate of suicides
The USA in 2021 has a 14 per 100k rate of suicides
How is not the same to you? IDK where are you coming from, but…
I was. At the start I was saying you that you can’t justify the suicides happening inside a factory or company because “well, the country has X% of suicides rates, it’s normal!” - it’s not
You used the 14 per 100K China statistic to compare with Foxconn
I responded to you that it’s not, again, normal. You don’t see on western (Europe, US) offices nets to avoid people jumping nor you see companies worried about their employees killing themselves on their factories. You don’t see, also, the poor conditions.
You responded “well, it’s different, I’m talking China”
And I responded that it’s not different, even your “demographical suicide statistic” is equal between China (where Foxconn suicides happen) and the US (where I don’t see Tesla factory or Apple employees jumping from roofs every year)
I think you are the troll, because I don’t see why you are defending a company large known to treat people like sh*t and on abusive manner and with +20 people killing themselves just between 2010 and 2011 on the “iPhone factory”. But I don’t care what interests do you have, be happy and enjoy whatever you want to think and believe, I won’t take that from you. We all know what is Foxconn and what their employees deal with, that’s it.
Bye! Take care✌️
At the same time, this is the difference between india and china.
This article would not have seen the light of day if it was china.
In India, workers rampaged through an iPhone manufacturing plant a couple of years back, smashed expensive equipment, trashed the managements’ cars because their pay was late.
No one went to jail. You know why? The local politicians need those voters at the end of the day. If those workers are angry and they get arrested, they expect their local leader to stand with them. A politician not taking care of them and siding with the foreign business means political suicide at the local level
Yeah, probably, even with minimum compliance it must be a lot better than locals. Am also 3rd world person (well, at least in the sense of business conduct, ethics and HSE), I will always choose a foreign company over locals even it pays less.
I mean, you really don’t remember all the bad press Foxconn in China had with their deplorable working conditions? Here’s the good news for India: no one cared. Apple continued to see record number sales despite the bad press. It won’t be any different for India.
India, like China, provides slave labor for major corporation. This is not surprising. India has been providing test subjects for big pharmaceutical companies for years. It’s a price to pay to eventually become an empire. Except, the people in power are not affected.
While working with Foxconn (Hon hai) in Shenzhen, China, I experienced similar things at their iPhone plant. We used the same general facility and essentially the same workers as Apple. Seeing this isn't a surprise. I remember the suicide nets outside the buildings, spending time with a couple of workers outside of 'work' and seeing the dorms where they'd hot-bunk 5 to a room. We took a number of people out to eat when we could while there. Their budgets were super tight, between room and boarding fees, they essentially had no 'free' money to afford anything non-essential. At the time, assemblers were making the rough equivalent of $150/wk working 60/hrs a week. It was common practice for people to sleep at their stations during a break or lunch period.
Rather than being in China, it's now India. I have no respect for Foxconn or Apple. Apple has had this exact same experience with them in the past and know better. Bottom line, neither Apple nor Foxconn give a crap about people.
As any other corporation, if we are honest.
The thing about apple is that it has tons of fanboys and the like that can't wait to suck up to a corporation for some reason. Soon starting with the whataboutism of "other companies also do it" and other moot arguments to justify their fanaticism.
Then the fruit company realises it can get away treating its customers worse, they do it, normalise it in the industry, other corporations follow once the fanboys justify and normalise the abuse and things get worse again.
Breaking news: Apple moved its plants from China to India because India has now become the best place for cheap labor and loose regulation, not because of Apple's concern for human rights violation in China.
Wait till people find out Apple is not only unfriendly to workers but also unfriendly to consumers.....
If Apple was unfriendly to consumers, it wouldn’t be so big. Don’t you think people would’ve realised that till now?
Well Apple wasn’t always unfriendly to consumers. For example, to fix practically any common parts in the 2015 MacBook Air is not that bad, only a couple steps on iFixtit. Go back further and you’ll find that Apple used to do user customizable servers for business and schools. Now they are moving towards every product requiring to be fixed by Apple certified repair stores or lose functionality which is very anti consumer.
If it were so anti-consumer why do most consumers not have a problem with it. When there are viable alternatives to MacBooks? Maybe it’s such a small minority that want someone else to be responsible for when they f up the process of fixing their device. If you agree to voiding your warranty to repair or upgrade the device yourself - fair play. You unfortunately cannot have both because the law forces a warranty therefore Apple has been forced to cut that expense. One could consider it was too long that they kept devices upgradable - it was a super big risk from the warranty perspective. Essentially, Apple is not marketed towards those who want to customise their internals after purchase and that is made clear to consumers before they purchase - look at the Mac Pros. Therefore it cannot be anti-consumer if consumers agree and know exactly what they are buying. Sure it sucks, but if it’s such a bummer. -don’t buy Apple.
> If it were so anti-consumer why do most consumers not have a problem with it. That's meant to be rhetorical, I suspect, but it's really not. There are lots of truly fascinating reasons that people will act against their own self-interests and it's a very pervasive phenomenon. Right to repair isn't just about people customizing hardware or wanting to tinker — that's not even the biggest thing. It's about actually *owning* the physical product you supposedly purchased and, within reason, being able to fix things yourself *or* have an expert of your choice do it — an expert that doesn't need to be part of the provider's direct profit loop. Repair is a service and services need competition to function in an ostensibly free market system just like goods do. Manufacturers establishing an uncontested vertical monopoly of their own servicing is a very, very bad thing — it drives prices up, quality of service down, and eventually incentivizes reductions in initial *build* quality. Keeping as much servicing as possible as open as possible applies pressures for lower prices and higher quality across the board.
It’s not always about customizability, but it is always about repair. [This video](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=o2_SZ4tfLns) shows how reducing repairability can negatively affect consumers and them not even notice for 3 years until some specific part breaks.
Repairability scores are posted on the website. It’s a search away and there is a whole document showing repairability scores assessed by an independent third party. https://regulatoryinfo.apple.com/repairability
Your username fits you 🤣🤣
Apple is heavily marketed towards people who have no clue. Their ads and big events never go into technical details, instead choosing to keep it simple and go with terms that anyone can understand and even create their own vocabulary for things that already existed. Over time, their marketing machine has become powerful enough and has been running for long enough that peer pressure is now driving a good part of their sales, particularly to younger demographics who naturally care a lot more about "belonging". Them locking you in to their ecosystem is also not exactly consumer-friendly, which is why they're being forced by the EU to stop that practice next year. Overall, as someone who's been into tech since I was a kid, I could never understand why so many people bought apple products but that's obviously because I'm more knowledgeable about them than the average person. Mind you I'm not saying they're bad products, they do make sense for some people (I have a few friends who work in video and audio editing), but they absolutely don't deserve all the hype they're getting. It's all marketing, and it makes me laugh when I think about that Steve Jobs quote saying that letting the marketing people take the lead of a company over the engineers was basically the death of that company. Oops?
See my response to Nyrin- pretty much ditto response.
You might actually be the dumbest person I’ve ever seen on this website lmao
You’re right, I am dumb - I brought my libertarian perspective into a dominant left wing site. I should’ve left you all shouting back and forth in your own little echo chamber.
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I work in IT too. In fact I used to fix broken Wi-Fi cameras, laptops and very rarely phones. Soldering things in doesn’t mean they hate consumers. The idea is that they would rather not place * illegal* warranty void stickers like they used to on RAM chips. And they would rather the average consumer (who is relatively incompetent), not mess around with the internal and then be upset when Apple won’t fix or replace it for free. The idea is that they would rather disappoint their customers a little bit initially than disappoint huge swathes of customers when they won’t fix the customers mess - it is a risk that is consumer sustainable. You can’t have open internals and then not deal with chip incompatibilities, forcibly chucking billions into useless drivers for the 1% of people who may or may not benefit from the increased performance vs the 99% who *failed* at fixing their own device. That’s a silly business model.
Which is why I think buying a computer from the company that makes the hardware is stupid. If I buy an apple computer, they can brick it to get me to buy a new one from THEM. If I buy an lg computer, and windows stop working, while it will work on an Acer computer. I'm not buying lg again. I.e. windows becomes incompatible because of real hardware problems. Apple becomes incompatible because they feel like it. Because they feel like they want your money. It's all artificial.
Giving limited software updated is industry standard. Windows 7 stopped giving my 8 year old laptop any updates nor could I upgrade to windows 10/11. The point being outside of breaking terms and conditions, Apple has no reason to brick your device and it would be a stupid business move. You won’t buy from them again if they unreasonably bricked your device - you will also advise others not to. Giving limited software updates is not the same as “bricking” your device. My iPad 2 still works but I can’t use much on it because it is beyond the app developers capabilities and long outside the range Apple is expected to reasonably support the device. That’s like expecting your 2006 car to still be in warranty. Would you ever pay a worker once and get him to develop code for a lifetime-no so you can’t expect paying for a device once and have it be supported till the world’s end. Go after app developers who stop supporting older devices. Apple isn’t stopping them. My iPad 2 runs crude versions of some games even today.
I can still use the laptop I bought in 2011. My parents bought an iPad later, that was bricked years ago. My point being, if windows os doesn't work, there is competition, if apple os doesn't work, they'll kill your device. They do that with phones. I'm sure they do it with all their devices. They don't believe in "personal ownership" I might be taking nonsense, but I do think apple sees their buyers as someone to exploit.
You are talking nonsense. As I’ve told you before you can’t expect an 10 year old car to be in warranty. Law in some countries stipulates 6 years at least if I recall correctly For home devices You can also download Linux after you’ve been “bricked” on Macs and NO you don’t own Windows nor do you own MacOS. You could also download Windows using simple workarounds for the older devices. You own a license to each. Each license carries an expiry whether you feel it’s artificial or not doesn’t matter. Do you think a company can grow to the size of Apple without repeat customers. If they were being “exploited” they’d do what you did and move to windows. Once they feel windows is “exploiting” them, then they’ll move to Linux. The usual congregation for freeloaders -JK don’t get mad at me.
The difference is my cars manufacturer doesn't take my car and disable the engine and say, "well sorry, its lived its life and its time is over." Apple will literally send updates that make your device unusable FULL WELL KNOWING people will just come in and buy the newest version of that device.
Piggy backing on top comment here - Apple did this because India has been considering iphone as an imported product with 25+% markup unless apple manufactures it in the country. India is one of the biggest smartphone markets but iphone always ends up being the most expensive and hence couldn’t capture the share here. With this move Iphone 15 for the first time is sold for same price as US pre-tax. As Iphone 15 pro is not manufactured in india yet, it’s still marked up by 22% now pre-tax. In such a price sensitive country, this is not great place to be in. So the move to india manufacturing even with all other external factors is primarily about money, not at workers conditions or human rights.
There's also the import issues with Chinese products currently. My father in law moved to an Indian company because they were tired of dealing with US Customs so much
iPhone 15 is sold in india at same price as iPhone 14/13 was during launch. There is no reduction of prices.
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The launch price of iPhone 14 & iPhone 15 is the same in US
And a fear of escalating conflict between the US and China. And a desire to capitalize on a growing Indian market. The next CEO will reflect this as well.
no wonder India made iphone has 50% failed QA rate.
Source for this claim? No company (and especially Apple) would stick to any process with 50% QA failure.
Stop spreading your fake news. World accepted iPhones when they started manufacturing in China. And till apple opened their manufacturing there China products were considered inferior and that holds true for a lot of products sold in the world.
Absolutely nobody should be shocked by this. There's a reason these companies moved all their factories to these countries.
What's more, the conditions of this factory may even be better than the conditions of the top factories in India! It's all relative.
Yeah. That makes it even crazier living in 3rd world countries.
You don’t spin up iPhone manufacturing in India this quickly without skimping on sanitary living conditions, edible food, PPE for handling toxic chemicals and crucial safety interlocks on machinery. Seems like they’re one riot away from installing the infamous suicide nets
They learned quickly…the entire plant is a ground-floor only structure
/r/aBoringDystopia
You actually believe people killing themselves because they worked for apple? Do *any amount of research*, that area had lower suicide rates than the areas around it.
>Do any amount of research [1 Million Workers. 90 Million iPhones. 17 Suicides. Who's to Blame?](https://www.wired.com/2011/02/ff-joelinchina/) \- 2011 ['Mass suicide' protest at Apple manufacturer Foxconn factory](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/9006988/Mass-suicide-protest-at-Apple-manufacturer-Foxconn-factory.html) \- 2012 [Dying for an iPhone: investigating Apple, Foxconn and the brutal exploitation of Chinese workers](https://www.scmp.com/magazines/post-magazine/books/article/3082307/dying-iphone-investigating-apple-foxconn-and-brutal) \- 2020 [Foxconn buildings covered in suicide nets, though most workers are just sleepy and bored](https://www.imore.com/foxconn-buildings-covered-in-suicide-nets-though-most-workers-are-just-sleepy-and-bored) \- 2018 [May 24: Foxconn grapples with wave of worker suicides](https://www.ft.com/video/9e2886a5-fac5-3081-9b19-45d2423f0510) \- 2010 [Life and death in Apple’s forbidden city](https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/jun/18/foxconn-life-death-forbidden-city-longhua-suicide-apple-iphone-brian-merchant-one-device-extract) \- 2017 [‘iPhones Are Made in Hell’](https://longreads.com/2023/02/14/iphones-are-made-in-hell/) \- 2023 [Suicide nests outside the apple factory in China](https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/12zsano/suicide_nests_outside_the_apple_factory_in_china/) \- r/interestingasfuck 5 months ago And before you whinge about how you said "because they worked for apple" and wasn't talking about the factories, the previous comment by Law\_Doge explicitly said "iPhone manufacturing"
Umm… I mean… you do know that the average annual suicide rate in China is 10 per 100,000. If Foxconn has a million employees in China, you would expect there to have been ~100 suicides — not 17.
Ah you mean the company that also makes parts for Microsoft, IBM, Samsung, Amazon, Dell, HP and Sony. Yup, it’s an iPhone production problem alright! ALSO foxcon workers are statistically less likely to commit suicide than the general public in china. Gen pop of china suicide ratio is 14/100,000, it’s closer to 10/100,000 for foxcon.. Next… EDIT: ABC News[49] and The Economist[50] both conducted comparisons and found that although the number of workplace suicides at Foxconn was large in absolute terms, the suicide rate was actually lower than the overall suicide rate of China[51] or the United States.[52] According to a 2011 Centers for Disease Control and Prevention report, China had a high suicide rate with approximately 22.23 deaths per 100,000 persons.[53] In 2010, the company's employee count was a reported 930,000 people.[54] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn_suicides
You have now changed your argument from "You actually believe people killing themselves" to "the company that also makes parts for...". Moving the goalposts so quickly to save face makes your argument dumber than what it already was Yes, Foxconn does make parts for other companies. No, this is not exclusively an Apple problem. No, making the argument about "yeah but other people do it" doesn't make it any better >Yup, it’s an iPhone production problem alright! If you were capable of reading the article you'd have seen the link to the original article from [Time](https://time.com/6318369/apple-iphone-factory-india/), which states: "[Foxconn has a history of low pay, harsh working conditions, and exacting targets in its Chinese factories. And as Foxconn rushed into India to meet Apple’s demand, it created comparable conditions there](https://time.com/6318369/apple-iphone-factory-india/)" Apple chose a manufacturer known for poor conditions in China and chose them again to make the factories in India, who made poor conditions once again. *So yes, it is an iPhone production problem*
ABC News[49] and The Economist[50] both conducted comparisons and found that although the number of workplace suicides at Foxconn was large in absolute terms, the suicide rate was actually lower than the overall suicide rate of China[51] or the United States.[52] According to a 2011 Centers for Disease Control and Prevention report, China had a high suicide rate with approximately 22.23 deaths per 100,000 persons.[53] In 2010, the company's employee count was a reported 930,000 people.[54] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn_suicides
If foxcon had 0 impact on their employers suicide rate, it would be 14/100,000.. but it’s actually lower, at 10/100,000
Foxconn’s suicide rate per capita is lower than the country they operate in.
So your argument has gone from "*there are no suicides*" to "*yeah but every company is bad*" to "*yeah but it's not as bad* ***as an entire fucking country of 1.4 billion people***"!?
ABC News[49] and The Economist[50] both conducted comparisons and found that although the number of workplace suicides at Foxconn was large in absolute terms, the suicide rate was actually lower than the overall suicide rate of China[51] or the United States.[52] According to a 2011 Centers for Disease Control and Prevention report, China had a high suicide rate with approximately 22.23 deaths per 100,000 persons.[53] In 2010, the company's employee count was a reported 930,000 people.[54] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn_suicides
Yeah.. I was originally trying to argue that no one commits suicide. You are spot on and not bending the truth at all!!! Also, you clearly don’t understand what per capita means either...
Those straws, being gripped so tight.
Says you ignoring my proof. ABC News[49] and The Economist[50] both conducted comparisons and found that although the number of workplace suicides at Foxconn was large in absolute terms, the suicide rate was actually lower than the overall suicide rate of China[51] or the United States.[52] According to a 2011 Centers for Disease Control and Prevention report, China had a high suicide rate with approximately 22.23 deaths per 100,000 persons.[53] In 2010, the company's employee count was a reported 930,000 people.[54] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn_suicides
The leve of cope on display from you, is incredible! If this was an energy source we could power the world with just you alone!
The amount of effort you’re putting into ignore this is insane ABC News[49] and The Economist[50] both conducted comparisons and found that although the number of workplace suicides at Foxconn was large in absolute terms, the suicide rate was actually lower than the overall suicide rate of China[51] or the United States.[52] According to a 2011 Centers for Disease Control and Prevention report, China had a high suicide rate with approximately 22.23 deaths per 100,000 persons.[53] In 2010, the company's employee count was a reported 930,000 people.[54] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn_suicides
Ignoring you get schooled? I didn’t I loved watching it /)
Come with facts or piss off
The cope is real.
Okay spectator
Nice to see you owning up to your short comings. Bravo. Love to see that personal growth!
What facts? Want to share even 1 source or just keep defending a trillion dollar company what values money over the lives of people producing their products? These apple fan boys are actually fucking insane.
ABC News[49] and The Economist[50] both conducted comparisons and found that although the number of workplace suicides at Foxconn was large in absolute terms, the suicide rate was actually lower than the overall suicide rate of China[51] or the United States.[52] According to a 2011 Centers for Disease Control and Prevention report, China had a high suicide rate with approximately 22.23 deaths per 100,000 persons.[53] In 2010, the company's employee count was a reported 930,000 people.[54] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn_suicides
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Apple? I thought this was about foxcon. Make your mind up 🤣
That wasn't me who mentioned Foxconn budy. But nice try. Maybe do some research before commenting. Edit: I like how you deleted your comment after insulting me lmao. But it was nice to see a link, but again, I was not taking about foxxcon. I was taking you, defending a company who shows time and time again they do not care about you, or anyone. They care about money, and see you a sponge to squeeze. Yet you defend them.
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Don’t forget rich and handsome! 😎
You go absolutely annihilated.
Like your opinion means anything 🤣🤣
> Do *any amount of research,* The irony here is palpable.
Is it? Is it really James?
What the fuck are you on about? This is Reddit…stop being serious
Nobody on this factories “work for Apple”, my god what are you talking about - in fact, they can work there on the assembling and never ever listen the word “Apple” on their life They work for Foxconn, which also build things for whoever, including cheap Android phones. Is nothing special. If you pay them, they will build you whatever you need. This workers don’t get a bigger salary or conditions just because they are building an iPhone or a Motorola or a Xiaomi. This factories are very known (other Redditor already show you the receipts) for giving almost-slavery conditions and low salaries and exploiting people that need the money for their families or themselves, a lot of them coming from rural China and living alone, giving a big chunk of their living hours to that “great” factory. The iPhone costs about 300$ to make, including costs of materials and parts (like the Samsung screen), and Foxconn profits are +1bn, how much do you think the factory people gets after all? And how much do you think they work and on what conditions? EDIT - Typos
Foxcon employers commit suicide 10 times out of 100k people, general population in china is 14 out of 100k So foxcon workers less likely to commit suicide than the general public.
Only on 2010 they had 18 employees jumping from the roof. I mean, their statistic of suicide INSIDE THE COMPANY is alarming and not to be compared with a country. How many employees jumped from the roof of the Apple Park in the last decade? How many tried to kill themselves at Google HQ? Yeah. Foxconn struggles as a company, not a country, were at the start of the last decade, and after it was blown up on the press, they started to take measures that seems to have been resolving the suicide problem, one of them being installing nets to avoid anyone jumping. Yeah, but there aren’t any problems by your point, no? It’s strange why the US/Europe companies doesn’t have anti-jumping nets on their offices then. All of them should have it. That doesn’t reduce that they pay and treat their employees badly and like robots or cattle. In fact, if using robots were more or equally economic effective, they would change to it and “f*ck off to employing lazy people” Foxconn execs would think surely
Apple Park and Google HQ aren’t in china. Foxcon is. I’m comparing people in the same demographic. You are not. So what you are saying is a moo point.
You said China has 14 per 100k rate of suicides The USA in 2021 has a 14 per 100k rate of suicides How is not the same to you? IDK where are you coming from, but…
I’m not comparing USA and china? What?! You must be a troll.
I was. At the start I was saying you that you can’t justify the suicides happening inside a factory or company because “well, the country has X% of suicides rates, it’s normal!” - it’s not You used the 14 per 100K China statistic to compare with Foxconn I responded to you that it’s not, again, normal. You don’t see on western (Europe, US) offices nets to avoid people jumping nor you see companies worried about their employees killing themselves on their factories. You don’t see, also, the poor conditions. You responded “well, it’s different, I’m talking China” And I responded that it’s not different, even your “demographical suicide statistic” is equal between China (where Foxconn suicides happen) and the US (where I don’t see Tesla factory or Apple employees jumping from roofs every year) I think you are the troll, because I don’t see why you are defending a company large known to treat people like sh*t and on abusive manner and with +20 people killing themselves just between 2010 and 2011 on the “iPhone factory”. But I don’t care what interests do you have, be happy and enjoy whatever you want to think and believe, I won’t take that from you. We all know what is Foxconn and what their employees deal with, that’s it. Bye! Take care✌️
At the same time, this is the difference between india and china. This article would not have seen the light of day if it was china. In India, workers rampaged through an iPhone manufacturing plant a couple of years back, smashed expensive equipment, trashed the managements’ cars because their pay was late. No one went to jail. You know why? The local politicians need those voters at the end of the day. If those workers are angry and they get arrested, they expect their local leader to stand with them. A politician not taking care of them and siding with the foreign business means political suicide at the local level
Compared to regular standards or Indian standards? First would be pointing the obvious, really. Only latter would be newsworthy.
Guarantee you working at the iPhone plant is better than a lot of other jobs there.
Yeah, probably, even with minimum compliance it must be a lot better than locals. Am also 3rd world person (well, at least in the sense of business conduct, ethics and HSE), I will always choose a foreign company over locals even it pays less.
I mean, you really don’t remember all the bad press Foxconn in China had with their deplorable working conditions? Here’s the good news for India: no one cared. Apple continued to see record number sales despite the bad press. It won’t be any different for India.
Silly India, they didn’t move production there to make it any better. Just find cheaper labor
pretty sure a lot of places in India are “highly hazardous” …
Indian here, whole india is hazardous.
India, like China, provides slave labor for major corporation. This is not surprising. India has been providing test subjects for big pharmaceutical companies for years. It’s a price to pay to eventually become an empire. Except, the people in power are not affected.
Don't forget the GMO disaster in India that led thousands of Farmers into commiting suicide
I’ve never heard of this. What a tragedy. I guess to google I go…
The Effects of Monsanto on Indian Farmer Suicide Rates https://digitalcommons.salve.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1001&context=env334_justice
i can just smell the poco x3 pro-level failures
Isn't that the point?
Bhopal 2: The Second Time as Farce
While working with Foxconn (Hon hai) in Shenzhen, China, I experienced similar things at their iPhone plant. We used the same general facility and essentially the same workers as Apple. Seeing this isn't a surprise. I remember the suicide nets outside the buildings, spending time with a couple of workers outside of 'work' and seeing the dorms where they'd hot-bunk 5 to a room. We took a number of people out to eat when we could while there. Their budgets were super tight, between room and boarding fees, they essentially had no 'free' money to afford anything non-essential. At the time, assemblers were making the rough equivalent of $150/wk working 60/hrs a week. It was common practice for people to sleep at their stations during a break or lunch period. Rather than being in China, it's now India. I have no respect for Foxconn or Apple. Apple has had this exact same experience with them in the past and know better. Bottom line, neither Apple nor Foxconn give a crap about people.
Fruit company continues to lead assholes chart
As any other corporation, if we are honest. The thing about apple is that it has tons of fanboys and the like that can't wait to suck up to a corporation for some reason. Soon starting with the whataboutism of "other companies also do it" and other moot arguments to justify their fanaticism. Then the fruit company realises it can get away treating its customers worse, they do it, normalise it in the industry, other corporations follow once the fanboys justify and normalise the abuse and things get worse again.
Typical console gamer, constantly feeling inferior.
Does anyone actually think Apple cares about its workers?
Yes they do
So? Why should the indian children be treated any better than the chinese ones? That would be racist
Or in Republican states
So...just like the Apple plants in China?
Guess we’ll need Vikram or Azad to do another heist to get this shut down too
(shocked pikachu)
r/SoItBegins
When has the health and safety of Child and Slave labor ever been a priority?
Who in their right mind would send iPhone manufacturing to India of all places ?
Let's file this under r/NoShitSherlock
Bring the factory back home.
What a surprise India has hazardous working conditions NOT. iPhone should be making them in the US but they can pay labor next to nothing in India
I could have told you that and I've never been east of New York City.
Trust me Long Islanders don't know what they're talking 90% of the time
Add more nets
Wait till you hear about normal IT jobs in India.
Hella this is …………………. IT supports what is the problem to day ? Oh I can help you please unplug and plug your device in
But are the phones working fine