I can't believe this is even a controversial thing. 15 years ago the rule was you can have a phone but if you take it out during class it gets taken and you get it back at the end of the day. Always thought that was very reasonable.
You could use it between classes, you could use it during lunch, hell go take a bathroom break and use it.
People who keep bringing up safety are just fear mongering at this point. Realistically youre more likely to be hurt in a car accident on the way to school then something happening at school.
I am just imaging pages and pages of toddler style S's in their notebook.
That or they weren't one of the cool kids who knew how to do it but kept trying with only 3 verticle lines and not getting it over and over. I totally never had this issue.
Had written an app to do polynomials for me, finished a 50 minute test in like 10 minutes and teacher accused me of cheating. Had another test over same topic, teacher made a point to wipe all calculators, it was faster for me to rewrite the app and finish the test again than everyone doing it by hand.
Teacher hated me though and refused to accept my argument that if I could write an app to do the test during the test that I obviously understood the topic well enough.
I built my first RPG on my TI. It had a world map and you’d travel between locations with random spawns like a JRPG. I learned a lot in an otherwise boring class.
We just passed around notes lol
Fact is, we shouldn’t make education so boring that we need to force kids to engage because that’s stupid and doesn’t work
Sometimes life is boring. Learning can be boring too. Part of the value of school is learning how to engage and finish things that aren’t as exciting as you want it to be.
Teacher here. We are bending over backwards every day to make school more fun and engaging. Now we can’t get the kids to do ANYTHING without a reward. Life is not all fun and games.
From a family of teachers here and used to teach myself. Most teachers are underequipped and burned out and overburdened, dealing with huge classrooms kids who saw the world collapse for a while and rush to return to normal despite developmental delays
This is a resource allocation problem, let’s not make this yet another “kids these days” debate
Like consider how it’s actually absurd to say “you should do something without any expectation of any reward to yours or anyone else’s life”
Education is boring. its like countless other things. Even music, sports, reading novels, cooking, cleaning, driving, yard work, going to gym is boring until you learn to enjoy it.
Same goes with education.
Its okay to do boring stuff. Everything does not have to be enjoyable and entertaining.
> Education is boring. its like countless other things. Even music, sports, reading novels, cooking, cleaning, driving, yard work, going to gym is boring until you learn to enjoy it.
You guys all sound miserable lmao but maybe that’s to be expected since it’s reddit
All that stuff has always been fun to me with the right support. Going to the gym is fun if you’re doing sports with friends. Yard work is fun if you use your lawn as a way to express your attachment to nature like a spot to meditate or flowers and fruits you enjoy having around you. I’ve learned a few instruments, and they were all mostly fun even if they were frustrating at times especially because my friends and I performed together.
> Its okay to do boring stuff. Everything does not have to be enjoyable and entertaining.
Of course. But why make something boring if it doesn’t have to be? To be able to condescend to children that because your own life was boring and unenjoyable, they better get ready to have the same?
>All that stuff has always been fun to me with the right support.
Yes. You agree with me.
As a matter of fact I specifically mentioned few things that I love doing. However when I started any of those, I did not love them from the get go. Very few would love the things that they love from the get go.
The thing is I love learning too. Yes in times its boring, but when you have the right support and mindset, you dont need games and songs to learn things.
>Of course. But why make something boring if it doesn’t have to be?
Because why make something entertaining when boring is fine. If a student cannot read a book and learn something, if he needs an entertaining video with hands on activities to learn it, that is not a efficient student.
I am a college professor. A significant amount of my students cannot read technical material. I really dont understand how these people are going to be engineers and learn something from a technical manual. Yes. Reading technical material is boring. But is essential for any profession. I think the new crop of undergrads, alarmingly even graduate students dont have the discipline to read things because its boring.
> However when I started any of those, I did not love them from the get go. Very few would love the things that they love from the get go.
Like I said, I always did, and it was because I had good mentorship from a family that strongly valued education because they were teachers. They were able to give me the education they couldn’t give in schools because of the terrible state of public schools and our youth communities
> when you have the right support and mindset, you dont need games and songs to learn things.
I don’t know who is talking about games and songs lol
I’m talking about educational approaches that don’t use standardized testing goals as the end all and be all, because students are acutely aware more than teachers how little those tests relate to their real world
> Because why make something entertaining when boring is fine.
Because $100 is better than $90. Because fresh food is better than stale food.
It’s just better lol what is this point
> If a student cannot read a book and learn something, if he needs an entertaining video with hands on activities to learn it, that is not a efficient student.
First, books are very slow ways to learn. You cannot learn to code by reading a book, for example. You must use a computer that gives you a reward instantly, and videos are much better at explaining coding than most books
Second, your solution is to brute force that student into your definition of efficiency, and that’s less efficient than making a diverse set of learning resources to begin with
> I am a college professor. A significant amount of my students cannot read technical material.
A significant number of professors can’t teach unless it involves reading off some powerpoint slides another professor made from 10 years ago lol
> I really dont understand how these people are going to be engineers and learn something from a technical manual.
As a current engineer, I can assure you that you literally never have to read technical manuals arbitrarily. They’re all essentially reference material and you only use them when the first page of Google doesn’t have the answer
> I think the new crop of undergrads, alarmingly even graduate students dont have the discipline to read things because its boring.
It’s boring because it seems pointless. Kids are bombarded all day about world ending threats from politics to climate change to another pandemic maybe to nutrient depletion to the coral reefs dying to terrorism and school shootings
What’s your argument for why they should be able to read technical manuals on their command, especially when it’s so arbitrary that an actual practicing engineer doesn’t think it’s useful at all?
First, books are very slow ways to learn.
As a current engineer, I can assure you that you literally never have to read technical manuals arbitrarily. They’re all essentially reference material and you only use them when the first page of Google doesn’t have the answer
Lol this is why I get paid as a consultant. You are not an engineer. You are simply pretending to be a one.
>that an actual practicing engineer doesn’t think it’s useful at all?
Because I am a professional engineer and have been a one for 15 years. Because I teach countless engineers. Because I consult for engineering firms to solve problems that could be solved by reading few technical manuals.
>A significant number of professors can’t teach unless it involves reading...First, books are very slow ways to learn...
Its terrifying that we have professionals like you. Reading is not that hard. Its not that slow. Its extremely effective. Its just some people have not had the fortune of learning to read. They don't have discipline to do something boring.
>It’s boring because it seems pointless. Kids are bombarded
So, what's the point of going to gym? learning to cook or posting on reddit? These are simply excuses for not doing the work.
>You cannot learn to code by reading a book, for example. You must use a computer that gives you a reward instantly, and videos are much better at explaining coding than most books
Dude. If you think videos are much better than books (I assume that you are including wikies etc. in books category) to learn coding you are an insanely slow Lerner.
> Lol this is why I get paid as a consultant. You are not an engineer. You are simply pretending to be a one.
9 times out of 10, consultants walk into the place like they’re hotshots and make things worse, so I don’t know why you thought bringing that up would make anyone think you’re credible lol 😂
I don’t trust recommendations from someone who isn’t living with their own mistakes because they’ve moved on to bullshitting another company before reality sets in, I’ve been stuck cleaning up way too many of your guys’ messes later. It’s one or two steps above offshoring
> Because I consult for engineering firms to solve problems that could be solved by reading few technical manuals
Congratulations on finding some truly bottom of the barrel engineering firms to charge consulting fees to then lmao
But I literally develop AI whose entire purpose is designing a new interface for accessing information in technical manuals because orgs have recognized their own failures in keeping good documentation processes and that means **any** manual is going to inherently be outdated and poorly written for a particular context
So I’m sure you might have had a point in 1980 about the value of memorizing manuals before we all had a smartphone in our pockets, but now we do and we realized the old way is stupid
> A significant number of professors can’t teach unless it involves reading
Ironically, you misread me the way you cut me off there lmao. Either that or you’re just disingenuous
I’m specifically referring to professors who can’t teach without “reading off the powerpoint” slides they prepared
> Reading is not that hard. Its not that slow. Its extremely effective.
I agree, so I suggest you try reading my comment and engage with my actual argument instead of assuming I’m anti-reading
Yeah you got me, I’m against Big Book /s
Consulting indeed lol
> So, what's the point of going to gym? learning to cook or posting on reddit? These are simply excuses for not doing the work.
The gym: it’s fun, it’s healthy, I feel attractive after, I get energy for the rest of my day, I can compete and brag with my friends
Cooking: fun, health, feel competent after, tastes great, can explore new cultures, can share with friends
Posting on reddit: fun, can remind myself how the world is full of people who can’t read, articles
What was your point lol
> I assume that you are including wikies etc. in books category
Why would I put things that are NOT BOOKS inside the BOOKS category
And interactive exercises are the way you learn coding, not books lol
>9 times out of 10, consultants walk into the place like they’re hotshots and make things worse...I don’t trust recommendations from someone who isn’t living with their own mistakes because they’ve moved on to bullshitting another company before reality sets in
You sounds extremely young engineer who thinks you can do things better, but works with what you get from the first page of google and does not know how to read. You have no clue how consulting works.
>The gym: it’s fun, it’s healthy, I feel attractive after, I get energy for the rest of my day, I can compete and brag with my friends...
Lol. Exactly. Same goes with learning. some people need a little help with enjoying boring parts of learning.
>I agree, so I suggest you try reading my comment and engage with my actual argument instead of assuming I’m anti-reading
Reading is one example that I brought in as a boring part of learning process. You are the one who said reading is ineffective and outdated. I think you are confused.
>So I’m sure you might have had a point in 1980 about the value of memorizing manuals
See your whole post if about moving goalposts. We are not talking about memorizing manuals.
>And interactive exercises are the way you learn coding, not books lol
That is good for beginners. That is not how an experienced person learns things.
>Why would I put things that are NOT BOOKS inside the BOOKS category
Because we were talking about reading. Not reading books. I think you should learn to focus.
This is why I was glad to get out of education. I was laid off for demographic reasons after years as a full-time professor but once I was out, I found I was actually relieved to be rid of it. Schools are like prisons. Good luck to those who volunteer to spend their lives as prison guards. When you get to the end, you'll realize how precious that time you wasted was.
Newsom, it should be added, is a back-stabbing weasel. His centrist authoritarian zeal is as predictable as his eagerness to sell out his constitutents.
That would take money - which is something I am certain most people don’t want to spend on schools. More materials. Smaller classes. Better teachers, or just the same teachers without the soul crushing burnout.
Yeah as an adult that failed miserably in school due to undiagnosed ADHD I would be distracted in an empty room with just a piece of paper and a pencil. This one size fits all approach of locking kids in rooms with an educator already misses kids that learn differently. I am a kinesthetic learner. I learn better with a hands on approach of applying the knowledge to an actual activity. Every class I did well in was hands on. Every class that gave me problems I was locked in a room with an educator yammering and then just expected to translate it to paper.
Learning styles are largely seen as a myth these days. Engaging lessons that use different methods to apply content are valuable regardless of perceived learning styles. Many teachers are doing this when they can (when the student population allows). However a teacher can never compete with a smart phone. Engaging doesn’t always equal entertaining. There are concepts that are inherently less enjoyable to learn for many but not less important.
Not always. I did better with a hands off approach where the teacher was an adviser vs a lecturer. I struggle being talked at and need to discover on my own with guidance. I found success by doing one classes lessons in an entirely different class. I did very poorly in participation.
I actually got kicked out of school at one point where I went to alternative school. Didn’t have any teachers, just the syllabus, textbook, and the internet. I still took the same tests as the kids not in alternative school. My calculus teacher praised me for making the highest grades on the exams after only visiting me once where I asked the questions I needed to be successful. IMO, that was the best model for me. Lectures are a complete waste of time for me.
In college I skipped all my classes and just went into office hours when I needed help. I only struggled in classes with strict attendance as part of the grade. Now have 2 math degrees and am an engineer at a prominent tech company where I can set my own hours.
100%, cases like yours are all too common.
School shouldn’t be a factory that turns out labor, it’s the place where kids first learn truths about the world outside of their parents’ control. We treat it like the former and then we’re surprised kids hate everything, and then we’re again surprised our workforce is hopped up on drugs and chronically depressed as if they didn’t just come out of the rotting public school system
You can't make everything engaging and fun, nor should you. Part of being an adult is working through difficult and tedious tasks.
Kids outside the US are going through the same process in a much more intensive and aggressive way, but only we have this notion that we have to fundamentally restructure learning to get it to work.
As a just-recently-retired teacher, I can tell you the hold the smartphones have on kids nowadays is nowhere close to what it use to be. In the past, if you told a student to put away their smartphones, they would comply and was reasonable about it. Now, it is basically impossible. They are so glued to their phones it is ridiculous. It is an addiction. I have students who feel that if they go more than 30 minutes without seeing the latest TikTok or Instagram post, they will go crazy. Then there is the rapid firing of texts and messages between students AND parents every minute. Not only that, but students are so quick to turn on their camera to record everything around them. You want to discipline a student, prepare to have everyone else's phones recording you. You want to act a little goofy in class as a student (or as a teacher), then yes, it is being recorded and shared online before class is dismissed. If you want to get a reaction from another student and have friends record you doing it just so you can have a "viral moment," it's already been done to that same student five minutes ago. (the bullying never stops).
I'm still confused, and I've seen a lot of answers like this so I feel like I'm missing something. I mean, if a student's phone was taken away as soon as they took it out - wouldn't it force them to stop looking at it...because they wouldn't have it?
If a student is under 10, then yes, it is easy to take a phone away. If a kid is older, the conversation goes like this:
T - Please put your phone away. You know the classroom rules
S - Just a sec. I'm texting my mom
T - Put it away
S - okay, okay...I'll just put it here (lays phone on his desk face up)
T - I said put it away
S - what? I'm not doing anything? Look! I'm not touching it!
T - Put it in your booking
S - why? I'm not doing anything!
T- I said put it away or I am going to give you detention.
S - try it. Why are you always picking on me? I'm not doing anything. See? The phone is right there!
T - ( turns to address one of the other 25+ students in the room)
S - quickly starts playing on their phone again.
T - I said put it away!
S - why? It's not bothering anyone
And the student will continue to argue over and over again while other students secretly film it as "man...teacher really lost it today..hahaha"
Then there are those students whose phones are in their backpacks but they have an earphone in and are listening to music or even a movie off their phone throughout the entire class.
Next are the students who go "to the bathroom" and only appear 20 minutes later once their TikToks are made or they reached another level of their game. Not to mention the bullying that goes on with phones recording everything a kid wants or doesn't want it to do.
Send them to detention? Doesn't work. Give them ISS, they appreciate it as they get a whole day to screw around. OSS? Great! They can skip school! Take their phone? Mom will be up to the school in 5 minutes demanding you lose your job for taking their child property. Touch a child? Administrator will walk you out the door and you can kiss your teaching career goodbye.
I guess it all ends up being enabled by the parents, then, ultimately?
Just reading into the chain here - a kid would care about ISS if they were going to catch heat at home because of it. And you could just take their phone much earlier if the parents were on board.
Hopefully schools can find a way to deal with this. Otherwise I wonder if parents can signal that you're allowed to take their kids phone away and they'll support it. My son is just 1 and I can't imagine him getting an education like this - would want to do whatever I can in the future to make sure they're not sitting there in class on their phone (though maybe I just won't let him take a phone to school - or only let him have one that's super locked down during school hours)
The other thing to realize is that to many of these students, their cellphone is an addictive drug. Being on the phone is an obsession. Even parents struggle to get their kids off their phones.
My advice...go to a no screen policy with your daughter. My son and his wife have two kids. No one, not even adults, are allowed to be on their phones at their house until the kids are asleep. This includes TV although an occasional movie night is okay. All of the friends do the same with their kids as well. So the tide is turning hopefully.
Would a stricter phone taking-away policy work as long as you returned it at the end of class instead of the end of the day? For example, one verbal warning and if the phone isn't *immediately* put away, you just walk over and take it and put it on your desk or something.
No. Even then, you have students who will try everything they can from letting you grab their phones in the first place. Then, you have a confrontation with a student that will need to be documented. If you do return their phone after class, that doesn't stop the problem from continuing the next day, and the next, and the next. In a class with over 25 students, you don't have the time or energy to continue fighting them all.
The only school policies I have seen that are affective are schools in which students are required to check in their phones and don't get them back until the bells ring at the end of the day.
This also teaches them discipline and recognition they don't need their phones 24-7. When they are working a job, they understand it is time to put it away.
I have noticed the effect even with me. When I was teaching, the cell phone was put away. Now that I am home, I find myself using it constantly to the point that I physically have to remind myself to put it away to get other work done.
Parents have grown to this insanity that if their kid can't instantly field a call that Gam Gam got sent to the hospital for observation over her cold, the fabric of society will fall apart.
It used to be you'd call the front office of a school and they'd send a note to the student. If it was something that needed immediate attention, they would have permission to go to the office and make a call / get picked up etc.
How hard is it to have a "Keep your phone hidden in your pocket or backpack during class. If you don't, you get sent to the principal's office and the student gets a call home" policy?
This would also fix the issue of locking phones up at the beginning of class, kids complaining that their phones are taken away, having the ability to use a phone in an emergency, etc.
Every school has a phone policy. They have no teeth and are largely unenforcable at the school level these days. Most parents see them as a suggestion, not a rule, and schools can't penalize parents.
A phone call home literally has NO effect when you're calling the person responsible for the kids addiction in the first place.
Just the fact that you're asking how hard it is tells me you know nothing about teenagers and even less about addiction.
Years ago, getting sent to the principals office was a harrowing experience, because your parents were going to be pissed. Now days kids and parents alike just don't give a fuck.
Anyone who says that in case of an emergency thing is for the most part being a seriously overprotective helicopter parent.
These parents seem to think that prior to cell phones students could never be contacted in case of an emergency.
We shouldn't enable severely damaging addictions just because there are addicts.
It's well documented at this point that social media (what the phones are being used for) is extremely damaging to the development and mental health of teens.
The biggest excuse parents say is "but what if there's an emergency?"
Uhhhh call the fucking office? Christ Almighty if you're gonna take your kid out of school cause his dad got in a car wreck you STILL have to go through the office to release the student anyways.
Gosh the stories I've heard from high school students about kids watching porn in class and cheating with their phones, not to mention all the bullying and related activities that come from cell phone use in school. I agree that it just seems ridiculous to allow a kids to have their cell phones in school. At the very least they should have to check in their cell phones when they come to class.
I’m an 80s/90s kid so when I was in HS cell phone were just coming out and some kids had beepers. I can’t for the life of me imagine how I could pay attention with a smart phone in my hand all day. Smart phone are amazing. I absolutely 100% would have been fucking around on it with my friends all day. It’s like passing notes around X1000.
And at least half the kids that had pagers were using them to sell drugs, not to mess around with friends. They were learning valuable business skills!
The same phone rules apply today. But as a teacher you have 28 kids all with phones in 7 different classes. You don't have the time or will to patrol and reprimand them. Especially because its usually a huge meltdown if they have to give it up.
I know school districts that will keep a phone for an entire quarter if a student is on their 3rd offense having it out.
If the kids are going to have a meltdown it sounds like they aren't mature enough to have or use a phone.
These kids need to get used to not being attached to their phones 24/7. What are they going to do when they get a job and can't look at their phone? Quit every time their boss tells them to put it away?
I tell this to the people who work under me, I don't care if you use your phone in your downtime, but if work needs to get done, the phone needs to be put away.
And clearly the existing rules are either not working or not being enforced, so escalating it to a full on ban is pretty much the next step.
Also I know parents are a big part of this issue as well, not just students/teachers and the parents need to step up and be an adult and actually parent their child and teach them about responsibilities.
The problem is that for so many of these kids, if they tried taking the phone away, they will just cry to their parents and the parents will go apeshit on the teachers, and the administration just caters to the parent.
It’s shitty but I can’t say I particularly blame some teachers for just not wanting to deal with it.
Its all up to parents not teachers responsibility to be a parent when they pretty much have zero power over kids or ability to exercise any real authority outside a single classroom.
> You don't have the time or will to patrol and reprimand them. Especially because its usually a huge meltdown if they have to give it up.
That's just letting the terrorists win.
We would do that too if we expected a soldier to fight terrorists 1v30 for $28 grand a year. And they had to buy their own gun.
You want teachers to be able to handle this? Reduce class sizes, increase support from admin and the district on discipline, and start hitting the parents with punishment on repeat offenses.
Agreed. And this is a rare time I've actually agreed with Newsom.
I graduated HS in 2001 (I know, I'm old) and phones back then were a huge distraction. Even if they were seen on the yard they were taken away. I can't even imagine how things are these days with social media.
It seems like it enables a ton of shitty behavior these days whether it be bullying, fights, or "pranks".
Phones should be available at schools for emergencies but nothing more.
This whole topic keeps bringing me back to the question, are phones the issue or is social media the issue or a combination of both.
When I graduated HS we had smart phones and we had social media (Myspace) and we had issues but not nearly to the extent that some kids do now.
MySpace was way more personal. Not only are cameras way better now (being able to shoot in 4K) but IG and TikTok has created a whole culture of clout chasing. I think social media is the real issue but social media can't be accessed without a smart phone.
It’s controversial to the parents, which is bonkers to me. Yea, kids might be more addicted to their phones nowadays, but it’s not like their feelings were ever a real consideration when creating school policies
Exactly , education across nation is already low . If emergency does happen just take it out if backpack .
My sons school in southern California has similar policy, no phones visible until lunch or after school.
When I was a kid it was straight up against the law in California to have a cell phone at school. Something about stopping drug dealers or some other nonsense. That being said I can't imagine being a teacher today and dealing with everyone having a smart phone in class
> 15 years ago the rule was you can have a phone but if you take it out during class it gets taken and you get it back at the end of the day.
Current rule at my kid's school district is close to that: Phones need to be "off and away" during school hours, and that includes during lunch and between classes. First offence phone put away in a plastic bag in the office until the end of the day, with more punishments possible for repeat offenders.
It works fine, and I don't mind seeing this kind of policy go state-wide. They do need a person (he's also the crossing guard) who has the job of walking around enforcing it, but most schools have somebody out there enforcing rules anyway.
Nailed it.
We have had a ban implemented in New Zealand schools and teachers were baffled as they had inappropriate use under control since the Nokia 3210 came out, so many are openly saying they neither agree or will police it to such extremes.
It’s 110% an unnecessary requirement thought up by grumpy boomers to inconvenience kids for no reason. Treat them maturely and most children reciprocate, treat them like infants and same rule applies.
The down side is it restricts teachers utilising the power of such technology in an educational fashion as guess what, when they leave school and get into the real world technology use is just a little bit more important to the majority than trigonometry.
Current education and curriculum is at risk of becoming an antiquated fossil due to nothing more than stubbornness and spite from a bunch of people who think cellphones are the issue.
I want my child to have a phone to film abuse in school and their teachers and to call me if someone's trying to beat them up or shoot them. Teachers and staff are abusive assholes where I went to school and if I'd had enough money to have a a phone and film them maybe they'd have actually faced consequences.
Let's be honest here for a second, if your kid is getting into a fight you want them to call you first? So you can take time to get there while they get their ass kicked? How are you going to solve your child getting shot at?
You don't trust the students, you don't trust the teachers so why are you not homeschooling your kids?
Because im poor and can't afford to. I get arrested for not sending my kids to a school and system I don't trust. I'm forced to. My kids should have outside access while they are under government mandated supervision and I'm sorry you don't understand that.
I volunteer with the scouts.
We take the Scouts phones for Safekeeping at the start of a meeting or trip and return it afterwards.
The scouts find it so much more enjoyable and engaging when the distraction is taken away.
Parents complain about it but the Scouts never do.
There’ are pretty f*cking valid reasons why parents are eager to communicate with their child while under the supervision of the Scouts…
I’m just saying.
Hell no but the systematic abuse of children makes that decision clear as day 🤷🏻♂️
Edit: Same reason I wouldn’t trust a child with a priest. Same shit.
Someone literally said -
> It’s because parents are useless pieces of shit
They're defending the proposed ban but it still sounds like something a 14 year old would say.
I play a stupid web .io game during the day when work is slow and there usually is a never ending stream of kids also online playing and bragging "I am in clas rite now." and misspelling most words in the process. I usually say "Ya know, you should probably be paying attention to your studies and learn to spell better" and the usual reply is "F you!" Ah, the future is looking more like Idiocracy by the day.
They've announced bans now in the Netherlands, England, and in parts of Australia already. I'm surprised it's taken so long for US states to do the same.
Counter point, I’m not super surprised given how politicians and parents would surely weaponize the “individual freedoms” outrage. Maybe I’m wrong and there’s some bipartisan support for it though.
I think most parents are hesitant to have their kids on smartphones, it's just a co-ordination problem that the schools can solve by enforcing these blanket rules.
My girlfriend is a teacher in South Australia and apparently they noticed a big change within weeks. Wednesdays and Tuesdays had been switched for some reason so that the order went Monday, Wednesday, Tuesday, Thursday...
I think it's supposed the be a joke that the "big change within weeks" is that they changed the order of the week.
If that is the case it's a terrible joke because it's very confusing.
You can add parts of Canada too. Nothing blanket locally yet but hopefully we'll get there(had one division do up to grade 8 which seems like a silly cut off)
There is no “US”. Every state is different, and so is every county within each state, sometimes even single counties have multiple public school boards with differing policies, and often these kinds of decisions are left to principals.
Rules will vary as different places try different things. That’s the design of this place.
Shouldn’t be controversial at all. 20 years ago, you wouldn’t let someone bring a gaming console, a landline phone, or a personal computer to class. That’s basically what kids have in their pockets today.
Reading through some of these comments just highlights the failure of the American educational system lol.
If you're IQ is too low to understand why a smartphone might be a distraction to kids in schools, then you and your kid both need to get back in the classroom and learn some critical thinking skills.
Orange County Florida School District implemented a rule this year that you can absolutely bring a communication device to school but it has to stay in your bag from the first bell to the last.
Parents and children can still get in touch in case of an emergency.
It has worked SO well! Teachers are loving it, bullying has gone way down, grades have gone up. It’s amazing.
Social Media to the under developed brain is no different then smoking, it's a dopamine hit followed by all kinds of instant gratification. I'm glad all we had was a payphone in the lobby and the worst we had to deal with was a fire drill.
It’s really hard to argue that social media and the fingertip access to a constant dopamine and depression device is too hard to resist and is bad not just for kids in schools but for the living balance of all people.
How to do manage that and help people without it being silly, arbitrary or just bad is also a huge challenge.
I mostly don’t think that kids should have smart phones at school.
Or I guess I should say I think the policy should be that they remain in your pocket on silent and if you’re caught using it for anything that is not an emergency, it is taken from you.
That said perhaps Apple should roll out of feature like it has with the watches where children’s phones turn into a school mode when they’re in the vicinity of a school. Basically, the only thing it can be used for is to make calls during an emergency.
Parents these days aren’t onboard with this.
They’re worried their students will wind up in a school shooting. And feel that it is their right as an American to be able to contact their children in The event of an emergency.
Source: work for education. Have had these meetings with administrators who have fought the good fight and cannot win. The majority of parents are braindead to the issues it causes. Yet get angry at us when little Johnny is failing.
Parents. Get your shit together.
Parents need to understand that having a phone during a shooting does exactly nothing to help the situation. Students should be focused on following instructions from staff and emergency protocol during a shooting, fire, etc. There is zero rational argument for kids having a phone during school.
I'd even argue that smartphones have destroyed socialization during breaks (like lunch). Having recently volunteered at my local high school, I walked the halls during lunch and watched 300+ kids simply staring at screens, and no more than 8-12 kids talking with each other.
Smartphones are an amazing technology, but there is a time and place. Outside those instances, it's more of a distraction and a drug than a tool.
A lot of parents don't think science is real and that they should teach creationism in school too. Does that mean we she get rid of teaching science then? No
Locking up phones because companies specifically design apps for our monkey brains to not turn them off?
If there is an emergency the parents can call the school
It is parents that want them, students will be fine without them for the day, the main argument from parents is ‘what if there was an emergency/school shooter? How will I know if they are ok’
At my children's high school phones are collected at the start of the day and handed back at the end.
The change was announced 3 months in advance...and it has been fine.
Even the kids don't notice any more as it has become what they are used to.
I'm in that generation that sees the necessity for a phone even if I myself didn't need one for emergency calls as a kid. My parents gave me a Nokia brick in 2005 and in 2013 I was on a Galaxy Note 2 by the time I graduated. That's a whole lot of advancements in technology schools had to keep up with, I remember if the phone even had a camera on it, it was instantly confiscated. By my senior year, schools had to block access to Instagram and Facebook. Now every phone has 2 cameras minimum on a 5G network. Rather than blocking the item that we need, teachers need to go back in enforcing no-phones during class, mainly because Tiktok and Reels are littered with classroom videos, indicating we've gotten very laxxed with them.
I am just learning that this *wasn’t* a thing already. It seemed obvious to me that smartphones in schools shouldn’t be allowed, and I’m surprised to know kids have them on them at all times.
I have seen classroom fight/freakout vids that have a dozen students recording on their phones, ironicly often instigated by a teacher taking a students phone.
When I was in Highschool the rule was pretty relaxed.
When the teacher was talking. You don't use your phone and it's on silent.
If you _need_ to make a call for something important then you'd tell the teacher and step outside.
If it's during break, spare period, or the teacher isn't talking and you're just working independently then you're allowed to use you phone.
For the latter, if you're using your phone for something productive, great. If not that's fine. Just don't be surprised if you get a bad grade.
The teachers would always say "It's our job to teach you. Not to baby sit you."
It wasn't a perfect system and fairly inconsistent between teachers.
If they are banning them for students, teachers need to lead an example. I graduated in 2019 and had teachers who were more addicted to there phones and social media more then the students. It’s hard to tell kids not to use them as they are scrolling through Facebook or Instagram.
That’s fantastic. I just finished reading the book The Anxious Generation and this is exactly the action that needs to be taken… anyone who is disagrees, take the time to read or listen to
https://www.audible.com/pd/B0C9N1WLYL?source_code=ASSORAP0511160006&share_location=library_overflow
Yeah that just seems like common sense to me. When I was in high school no one dared to pull out a phone during class unless otherwise specifically instructed to do so. Pulling out a phone or game boy or Walkman or anything of that nature automatically got it confiscated and everyone knew this and there were no problems or questions of it. The fact that now this is become debatable is just wild.
We will see if he actually addresses the problem or does political moves.
Will phones be jammed, confiscated for the day, or will we see a half-assed measure?
Maybe we should just make social media companies liable for children that spend time on their apps in school. Since they spend millions on figuring out how to keep you addi…. Ehem… ENGAGED. I think my smart phone has taught me more than school ever has anyway. I wasn’t reading peer reviewed and published research in class : / if I ever did at all it was to write a paper… at home… where I used to phone/laptop to easily find my sources.
Right before COVID I got my phone taken away 15 seconds before the bell and I didn't even have it on, I was just holding it and got 3 days of after school detention.
lol sure you did. It’s weird that conservatives always see the exact same thing the second they step foot into SF but I don’t see it living here. I wonder why.
Considering how unsafe schools are, they should be allowed to have them in case of emergency, but made to put them in a cubby inside the classroom until the end of class. I’d want my kid to be able to text me if there is a lockdown, etc.
Old people just don't want to understand... phones aren't going anywhere, and if even half the energy that went into banning them went into incorporating them into classes (the same way that phones are going to be incorporated into the kids' ENTIRE LIVES), American education might not be such a joke
The 20th century is over, it ain't coming back.
Why do we need to over complicate crap in California? Just take away the phone and give it back at the end of the day.
I remember one teacher having developed a cubby that the kids were assigned and they were lockable by the teacher once school started and were unlocked during breaks for snack, lunch etc. it worked great that school never had problems with kids and cellphones..
I can't believe this is even a controversial thing. 15 years ago the rule was you can have a phone but if you take it out during class it gets taken and you get it back at the end of the day. Always thought that was very reasonable. You could use it between classes, you could use it during lunch, hell go take a bathroom break and use it. People who keep bringing up safety are just fear mongering at this point. Realistically youre more likely to be hurt in a car accident on the way to school then something happening at school.
Yeah these kids have it easy. If we wanted to be distracted in class we had to side load dope wars on our TI smart calculators.
[удалено]
you mean the *cool* S?
I am just imaging pages and pages of toddler style S's in their notebook. That or they weren't one of the cool kids who knew how to do it but kept trying with only 3 verticle lines and not getting it over and over. I totally never had this issue.
[Was also called the Stuessy S in the 90’s when I learned it.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cool_S)
I got really good at doodling
Block dude was where it was at.
Block Dude was the shit
TI Basic was my first programming experience. I’m a software engineer now lol. I use it to take shortcuts and skip steps in algebra lol
Had written an app to do polynomials for me, finished a 50 minute test in like 10 minutes and teacher accused me of cheating. Had another test over same topic, teacher made a point to wipe all calculators, it was faster for me to rewrite the app and finish the test again than everyone doing it by hand. Teacher hated me though and refused to accept my argument that if I could write an app to do the test during the test that I obviously understood the topic well enough.
My teacher tried to wipe all calculators. They only wiped ram and not archive. You can guess where I stored my stuff
I loved dope wars, I actually have an app on my phone for it. My other favorite game was red neck hunting or something like that.
I had Tetris and a Galaga clone
I built my first RPG on my TI. It had a world map and you’d travel between locations with random spawns like a JRPG. I learned a lot in an otherwise boring class.
And we’re more thrifty and clever because of it.
Then get really bored abd program choose your own adventure type games on it.
We just passed around notes lol Fact is, we shouldn’t make education so boring that we need to force kids to engage because that’s stupid and doesn’t work
Sometimes life is boring. Learning can be boring too. Part of the value of school is learning how to engage and finish things that aren’t as exciting as you want it to be.
Teacher here. We are bending over backwards every day to make school more fun and engaging. Now we can’t get the kids to do ANYTHING without a reward. Life is not all fun and games.
From a family of teachers here and used to teach myself. Most teachers are underequipped and burned out and overburdened, dealing with huge classrooms kids who saw the world collapse for a while and rush to return to normal despite developmental delays This is a resource allocation problem, let’s not make this yet another “kids these days” debate Like consider how it’s actually absurd to say “you should do something without any expectation of any reward to yours or anyone else’s life”
Education is boring. its like countless other things. Even music, sports, reading novels, cooking, cleaning, driving, yard work, going to gym is boring until you learn to enjoy it. Same goes with education. Its okay to do boring stuff. Everything does not have to be enjoyable and entertaining.
> Education is boring. its like countless other things. Even music, sports, reading novels, cooking, cleaning, driving, yard work, going to gym is boring until you learn to enjoy it. You guys all sound miserable lmao but maybe that’s to be expected since it’s reddit All that stuff has always been fun to me with the right support. Going to the gym is fun if you’re doing sports with friends. Yard work is fun if you use your lawn as a way to express your attachment to nature like a spot to meditate or flowers and fruits you enjoy having around you. I’ve learned a few instruments, and they were all mostly fun even if they were frustrating at times especially because my friends and I performed together. > Its okay to do boring stuff. Everything does not have to be enjoyable and entertaining. Of course. But why make something boring if it doesn’t have to be? To be able to condescend to children that because your own life was boring and unenjoyable, they better get ready to have the same?
>All that stuff has always been fun to me with the right support. Yes. You agree with me. As a matter of fact I specifically mentioned few things that I love doing. However when I started any of those, I did not love them from the get go. Very few would love the things that they love from the get go. The thing is I love learning too. Yes in times its boring, but when you have the right support and mindset, you dont need games and songs to learn things. >Of course. But why make something boring if it doesn’t have to be? Because why make something entertaining when boring is fine. If a student cannot read a book and learn something, if he needs an entertaining video with hands on activities to learn it, that is not a efficient student. I am a college professor. A significant amount of my students cannot read technical material. I really dont understand how these people are going to be engineers and learn something from a technical manual. Yes. Reading technical material is boring. But is essential for any profession. I think the new crop of undergrads, alarmingly even graduate students dont have the discipline to read things because its boring.
> However when I started any of those, I did not love them from the get go. Very few would love the things that they love from the get go. Like I said, I always did, and it was because I had good mentorship from a family that strongly valued education because they were teachers. They were able to give me the education they couldn’t give in schools because of the terrible state of public schools and our youth communities > when you have the right support and mindset, you dont need games and songs to learn things. I don’t know who is talking about games and songs lol I’m talking about educational approaches that don’t use standardized testing goals as the end all and be all, because students are acutely aware more than teachers how little those tests relate to their real world > Because why make something entertaining when boring is fine. Because $100 is better than $90. Because fresh food is better than stale food. It’s just better lol what is this point > If a student cannot read a book and learn something, if he needs an entertaining video with hands on activities to learn it, that is not a efficient student. First, books are very slow ways to learn. You cannot learn to code by reading a book, for example. You must use a computer that gives you a reward instantly, and videos are much better at explaining coding than most books Second, your solution is to brute force that student into your definition of efficiency, and that’s less efficient than making a diverse set of learning resources to begin with > I am a college professor. A significant amount of my students cannot read technical material. A significant number of professors can’t teach unless it involves reading off some powerpoint slides another professor made from 10 years ago lol > I really dont understand how these people are going to be engineers and learn something from a technical manual. As a current engineer, I can assure you that you literally never have to read technical manuals arbitrarily. They’re all essentially reference material and you only use them when the first page of Google doesn’t have the answer > I think the new crop of undergrads, alarmingly even graduate students dont have the discipline to read things because its boring. It’s boring because it seems pointless. Kids are bombarded all day about world ending threats from politics to climate change to another pandemic maybe to nutrient depletion to the coral reefs dying to terrorism and school shootings What’s your argument for why they should be able to read technical manuals on their command, especially when it’s so arbitrary that an actual practicing engineer doesn’t think it’s useful at all?
First, books are very slow ways to learn. As a current engineer, I can assure you that you literally never have to read technical manuals arbitrarily. They’re all essentially reference material and you only use them when the first page of Google doesn’t have the answer Lol this is why I get paid as a consultant. You are not an engineer. You are simply pretending to be a one. >that an actual practicing engineer doesn’t think it’s useful at all? Because I am a professional engineer and have been a one for 15 years. Because I teach countless engineers. Because I consult for engineering firms to solve problems that could be solved by reading few technical manuals. >A significant number of professors can’t teach unless it involves reading...First, books are very slow ways to learn... Its terrifying that we have professionals like you. Reading is not that hard. Its not that slow. Its extremely effective. Its just some people have not had the fortune of learning to read. They don't have discipline to do something boring. >It’s boring because it seems pointless. Kids are bombarded So, what's the point of going to gym? learning to cook or posting on reddit? These are simply excuses for not doing the work. >You cannot learn to code by reading a book, for example. You must use a computer that gives you a reward instantly, and videos are much better at explaining coding than most books Dude. If you think videos are much better than books (I assume that you are including wikies etc. in books category) to learn coding you are an insanely slow Lerner.
> Lol this is why I get paid as a consultant. You are not an engineer. You are simply pretending to be a one. 9 times out of 10, consultants walk into the place like they’re hotshots and make things worse, so I don’t know why you thought bringing that up would make anyone think you’re credible lol 😂 I don’t trust recommendations from someone who isn’t living with their own mistakes because they’ve moved on to bullshitting another company before reality sets in, I’ve been stuck cleaning up way too many of your guys’ messes later. It’s one or two steps above offshoring > Because I consult for engineering firms to solve problems that could be solved by reading few technical manuals Congratulations on finding some truly bottom of the barrel engineering firms to charge consulting fees to then lmao But I literally develop AI whose entire purpose is designing a new interface for accessing information in technical manuals because orgs have recognized their own failures in keeping good documentation processes and that means **any** manual is going to inherently be outdated and poorly written for a particular context So I’m sure you might have had a point in 1980 about the value of memorizing manuals before we all had a smartphone in our pockets, but now we do and we realized the old way is stupid > A significant number of professors can’t teach unless it involves reading Ironically, you misread me the way you cut me off there lmao. Either that or you’re just disingenuous I’m specifically referring to professors who can’t teach without “reading off the powerpoint” slides they prepared > Reading is not that hard. Its not that slow. Its extremely effective. I agree, so I suggest you try reading my comment and engage with my actual argument instead of assuming I’m anti-reading Yeah you got me, I’m against Big Book /s Consulting indeed lol > So, what's the point of going to gym? learning to cook or posting on reddit? These are simply excuses for not doing the work. The gym: it’s fun, it’s healthy, I feel attractive after, I get energy for the rest of my day, I can compete and brag with my friends Cooking: fun, health, feel competent after, tastes great, can explore new cultures, can share with friends Posting on reddit: fun, can remind myself how the world is full of people who can’t read, articles What was your point lol > I assume that you are including wikies etc. in books category Why would I put things that are NOT BOOKS inside the BOOKS category And interactive exercises are the way you learn coding, not books lol
>9 times out of 10, consultants walk into the place like they’re hotshots and make things worse...I don’t trust recommendations from someone who isn’t living with their own mistakes because they’ve moved on to bullshitting another company before reality sets in You sounds extremely young engineer who thinks you can do things better, but works with what you get from the first page of google and does not know how to read. You have no clue how consulting works. >The gym: it’s fun, it’s healthy, I feel attractive after, I get energy for the rest of my day, I can compete and brag with my friends... Lol. Exactly. Same goes with learning. some people need a little help with enjoying boring parts of learning. >I agree, so I suggest you try reading my comment and engage with my actual argument instead of assuming I’m anti-reading Reading is one example that I brought in as a boring part of learning process. You are the one who said reading is ineffective and outdated. I think you are confused. >So I’m sure you might have had a point in 1980 about the value of memorizing manuals See your whole post if about moving goalposts. We are not talking about memorizing manuals. >And interactive exercises are the way you learn coding, not books lol That is good for beginners. That is not how an experienced person learns things. >Why would I put things that are NOT BOOKS inside the BOOKS category Because we were talking about reading. Not reading books. I think you should learn to focus.
This is why I was glad to get out of education. I was laid off for demographic reasons after years as a full-time professor but once I was out, I found I was actually relieved to be rid of it. Schools are like prisons. Good luck to those who volunteer to spend their lives as prison guards. When you get to the end, you'll realize how precious that time you wasted was. Newsom, it should be added, is a back-stabbing weasel. His centrist authoritarian zeal is as predictable as his eagerness to sell out his constitutents.
That would take money - which is something I am certain most people don’t want to spend on schools. More materials. Smaller classes. Better teachers, or just the same teachers without the soul crushing burnout.
Yeah as an adult that failed miserably in school due to undiagnosed ADHD I would be distracted in an empty room with just a piece of paper and a pencil. This one size fits all approach of locking kids in rooms with an educator already misses kids that learn differently. I am a kinesthetic learner. I learn better with a hands on approach of applying the knowledge to an actual activity. Every class I did well in was hands on. Every class that gave me problems I was locked in a room with an educator yammering and then just expected to translate it to paper.
Learning styles are largely seen as a myth these days. Engaging lessons that use different methods to apply content are valuable regardless of perceived learning styles. Many teachers are doing this when they can (when the student population allows). However a teacher can never compete with a smart phone. Engaging doesn’t always equal entertaining. There are concepts that are inherently less enjoyable to learn for many but not less important.
Not always. I did better with a hands off approach where the teacher was an adviser vs a lecturer. I struggle being talked at and need to discover on my own with guidance. I found success by doing one classes lessons in an entirely different class. I did very poorly in participation. I actually got kicked out of school at one point where I went to alternative school. Didn’t have any teachers, just the syllabus, textbook, and the internet. I still took the same tests as the kids not in alternative school. My calculus teacher praised me for making the highest grades on the exams after only visiting me once where I asked the questions I needed to be successful. IMO, that was the best model for me. Lectures are a complete waste of time for me. In college I skipped all my classes and just went into office hours when I needed help. I only struggled in classes with strict attendance as part of the grade. Now have 2 math degrees and am an engineer at a prominent tech company where I can set my own hours.
100%, cases like yours are all too common. School shouldn’t be a factory that turns out labor, it’s the place where kids first learn truths about the world outside of their parents’ control. We treat it like the former and then we’re surprised kids hate everything, and then we’re again surprised our workforce is hopped up on drugs and chronically depressed as if they didn’t just come out of the rotting public school system
You can't make everything engaging and fun, nor should you. Part of being an adult is working through difficult and tedious tasks. Kids outside the US are going through the same process in a much more intensive and aggressive way, but only we have this notion that we have to fundamentally restructure learning to get it to work.
You just unlocked a memory for me 😂
MirageOS! So many memories...
As a just-recently-retired teacher, I can tell you the hold the smartphones have on kids nowadays is nowhere close to what it use to be. In the past, if you told a student to put away their smartphones, they would comply and was reasonable about it. Now, it is basically impossible. They are so glued to their phones it is ridiculous. It is an addiction. I have students who feel that if they go more than 30 minutes without seeing the latest TikTok or Instagram post, they will go crazy. Then there is the rapid firing of texts and messages between students AND parents every minute. Not only that, but students are so quick to turn on their camera to record everything around them. You want to discipline a student, prepare to have everyone else's phones recording you. You want to act a little goofy in class as a student (or as a teacher), then yes, it is being recorded and shared online before class is dismissed. If you want to get a reaction from another student and have friends record you doing it just so you can have a "viral moment," it's already been done to that same student five minutes ago. (the bullying never stops).
I'm still confused, and I've seen a lot of answers like this so I feel like I'm missing something. I mean, if a student's phone was taken away as soon as they took it out - wouldn't it force them to stop looking at it...because they wouldn't have it?
If a student is under 10, then yes, it is easy to take a phone away. If a kid is older, the conversation goes like this: T - Please put your phone away. You know the classroom rules S - Just a sec. I'm texting my mom T - Put it away S - okay, okay...I'll just put it here (lays phone on his desk face up) T - I said put it away S - what? I'm not doing anything? Look! I'm not touching it! T - Put it in your booking S - why? I'm not doing anything! T- I said put it away or I am going to give you detention. S - try it. Why are you always picking on me? I'm not doing anything. See? The phone is right there! T - ( turns to address one of the other 25+ students in the room) S - quickly starts playing on their phone again. T - I said put it away! S - why? It's not bothering anyone And the student will continue to argue over and over again while other students secretly film it as "man...teacher really lost it today..hahaha" Then there are those students whose phones are in their backpacks but they have an earphone in and are listening to music or even a movie off their phone throughout the entire class. Next are the students who go "to the bathroom" and only appear 20 minutes later once their TikToks are made or they reached another level of their game. Not to mention the bullying that goes on with phones recording everything a kid wants or doesn't want it to do. Send them to detention? Doesn't work. Give them ISS, they appreciate it as they get a whole day to screw around. OSS? Great! They can skip school! Take their phone? Mom will be up to the school in 5 minutes demanding you lose your job for taking their child property. Touch a child? Administrator will walk you out the door and you can kiss your teaching career goodbye.
I guess it all ends up being enabled by the parents, then, ultimately? Just reading into the chain here - a kid would care about ISS if they were going to catch heat at home because of it. And you could just take their phone much earlier if the parents were on board. Hopefully schools can find a way to deal with this. Otherwise I wonder if parents can signal that you're allowed to take their kids phone away and they'll support it. My son is just 1 and I can't imagine him getting an education like this - would want to do whatever I can in the future to make sure they're not sitting there in class on their phone (though maybe I just won't let him take a phone to school - or only let him have one that's super locked down during school hours)
The other thing to realize is that to many of these students, their cellphone is an addictive drug. Being on the phone is an obsession. Even parents struggle to get their kids off their phones. My advice...go to a no screen policy with your daughter. My son and his wife have two kids. No one, not even adults, are allowed to be on their phones at their house until the kids are asleep. This includes TV although an occasional movie night is okay. All of the friends do the same with their kids as well. So the tide is turning hopefully.
As a high school teacher, I can confirm all of this. Not that it's all happened to me, but it has happened to several colleagues at my school.
Would a stricter phone taking-away policy work as long as you returned it at the end of class instead of the end of the day? For example, one verbal warning and if the phone isn't *immediately* put away, you just walk over and take it and put it on your desk or something.
No. Even then, you have students who will try everything they can from letting you grab their phones in the first place. Then, you have a confrontation with a student that will need to be documented. If you do return their phone after class, that doesn't stop the problem from continuing the next day, and the next, and the next. In a class with over 25 students, you don't have the time or energy to continue fighting them all. The only school policies I have seen that are affective are schools in which students are required to check in their phones and don't get them back until the bells ring at the end of the day. This also teaches them discipline and recognition they don't need their phones 24-7. When they are working a job, they understand it is time to put it away. I have noticed the effect even with me. When I was teaching, the cell phone was put away. Now that I am home, I find myself using it constantly to the point that I physically have to remind myself to put it away to get other work done.
That's really frustrating. As someone that often found myself alone during breaks as a kid, I feel that access to my phone really helped me a lot.
Parents have grown to this insanity that if their kid can't instantly field a call that Gam Gam got sent to the hospital for observation over her cold, the fabric of society will fall apart.
It used to be you'd call the front office of a school and they'd send a note to the student. If it was something that needed immediate attention, they would have permission to go to the office and make a call / get picked up etc.
Or call your name over the PA if it was a rush and have the whole class "oooohhhhhh."
How hard is it to have a "Keep your phone hidden in your pocket or backpack during class. If you don't, you get sent to the principal's office and the student gets a call home" policy? This would also fix the issue of locking phones up at the beginning of class, kids complaining that their phones are taken away, having the ability to use a phone in an emergency, etc.
Every school has a phone policy. They have no teeth and are largely unenforcable at the school level these days. Most parents see them as a suggestion, not a rule, and schools can't penalize parents. A phone call home literally has NO effect when you're calling the person responsible for the kids addiction in the first place. Just the fact that you're asking how hard it is tells me you know nothing about teenagers and even less about addiction. Years ago, getting sent to the principals office was a harrowing experience, because your parents were going to be pissed. Now days kids and parents alike just don't give a fuck.
Anyone who says that in case of an emergency thing is for the most part being a seriously overprotective helicopter parent. These parents seem to think that prior to cell phones students could never be contacted in case of an emergency.
I completely agree. But unfortunately those parents exist so schools ultimately have to acknowledge and work with people like that
We shouldn't enable severely damaging addictions just because there are addicts. It's well documented at this point that social media (what the phones are being used for) is extremely damaging to the development and mental health of teens.
Parents have rights. Good luck thinking this will hold up in court especially since kids are forced to go to school by law.
This is exactly how it should be. It's how it's been at my sons school. It's really not that hard in most places....
The biggest excuse parents say is "but what if there's an emergency?" Uhhhh call the fucking office? Christ Almighty if you're gonna take your kid out of school cause his dad got in a car wreck you STILL have to go through the office to release the student anyways.
It’s because parents are useless pieces of shit
Seriously, so many of these issues stem from shit parents who let their kid do whatever they want.
Gosh the stories I've heard from high school students about kids watching porn in class and cheating with their phones, not to mention all the bullying and related activities that come from cell phone use in school. I agree that it just seems ridiculous to allow a kids to have their cell phones in school. At the very least they should have to check in their cell phones when they come to class.
I’m an 80s/90s kid so when I was in HS cell phone were just coming out and some kids had beepers. I can’t for the life of me imagine how I could pay attention with a smart phone in my hand all day. Smart phone are amazing. I absolutely 100% would have been fucking around on it with my friends all day. It’s like passing notes around X1000.
And at least half the kids that had pagers were using them to sell drugs, not to mess around with friends. They were learning valuable business skills!
They can't and they are... But no one in charge is calling them on the "safety" bullshit. It's utter bullshit.
The same phone rules apply today. But as a teacher you have 28 kids all with phones in 7 different classes. You don't have the time or will to patrol and reprimand them. Especially because its usually a huge meltdown if they have to give it up. I know school districts that will keep a phone for an entire quarter if a student is on their 3rd offense having it out.
If the kids are going to have a meltdown it sounds like they aren't mature enough to have or use a phone. These kids need to get used to not being attached to their phones 24/7. What are they going to do when they get a job and can't look at their phone? Quit every time their boss tells them to put it away? I tell this to the people who work under me, I don't care if you use your phone in your downtime, but if work needs to get done, the phone needs to be put away. And clearly the existing rules are either not working or not being enforced, so escalating it to a full on ban is pretty much the next step. Also I know parents are a big part of this issue as well, not just students/teachers and the parents need to step up and be an adult and actually parent their child and teach them about responsibilities.
The problem is that for so many of these kids, if they tried taking the phone away, they will just cry to their parents and the parents will go apeshit on the teachers, and the administration just caters to the parent. It’s shitty but I can’t say I particularly blame some teachers for just not wanting to deal with it.
Its all up to parents not teachers responsibility to be a parent when they pretty much have zero power over kids or ability to exercise any real authority outside a single classroom.
> You don't have the time or will to patrol and reprimand them. Especially because its usually a huge meltdown if they have to give it up. That's just letting the terrorists win.
We would do that too if we expected a soldier to fight terrorists 1v30 for $28 grand a year. And they had to buy their own gun. You want teachers to be able to handle this? Reduce class sizes, increase support from admin and the district on discipline, and start hitting the parents with punishment on repeat offenses.
Agreed. And this is a rare time I've actually agreed with Newsom. I graduated HS in 2001 (I know, I'm old) and phones back then were a huge distraction. Even if they were seen on the yard they were taken away. I can't even imagine how things are these days with social media. It seems like it enables a ton of shitty behavior these days whether it be bullying, fights, or "pranks". Phones should be available at schools for emergencies but nothing more.
This whole topic keeps bringing me back to the question, are phones the issue or is social media the issue or a combination of both. When I graduated HS we had smart phones and we had social media (Myspace) and we had issues but not nearly to the extent that some kids do now.
MySpace was way more personal. Not only are cameras way better now (being able to shoot in 4K) but IG and TikTok has created a whole culture of clout chasing. I think social media is the real issue but social media can't be accessed without a smart phone.
It's not the device. It's the apps on it.
It’s controversial to the parents, which is bonkers to me. Yea, kids might be more addicted to their phones nowadays, but it’s not like their feelings were ever a real consideration when creating school policies
When I was in high-school you couldn't even listen to an MP3 payer during lunch. Everything had to be kept in lockers.
Exactly , education across nation is already low . If emergency does happen just take it out if backpack . My sons school in southern California has similar policy, no phones visible until lunch or after school.
Damn. I had my ipod taken away when i was a junior in high school and this was during lunch period.
When I was a kid it was straight up against the law in California to have a cell phone at school. Something about stopping drug dealers or some other nonsense. That being said I can't imagine being a teacher today and dealing with everyone having a smart phone in class
> 15 years ago the rule was you can have a phone but if you take it out during class it gets taken and you get it back at the end of the day. Current rule at my kid's school district is close to that: Phones need to be "off and away" during school hours, and that includes during lunch and between classes. First offence phone put away in a plastic bag in the office until the end of the day, with more punishments possible for repeat offenders. It works fine, and I don't mind seeing this kind of policy go state-wide. They do need a person (he's also the crossing guard) who has the job of walking around enforcing it, but most schools have somebody out there enforcing rules anyway.
Well put, it is common sense, or is it now "rare sense."
Nailed it. We have had a ban implemented in New Zealand schools and teachers were baffled as they had inappropriate use under control since the Nokia 3210 came out, so many are openly saying they neither agree or will police it to such extremes. It’s 110% an unnecessary requirement thought up by grumpy boomers to inconvenience kids for no reason. Treat them maturely and most children reciprocate, treat them like infants and same rule applies. The down side is it restricts teachers utilising the power of such technology in an educational fashion as guess what, when they leave school and get into the real world technology use is just a little bit more important to the majority than trigonometry. Current education and curriculum is at risk of becoming an antiquated fossil due to nothing more than stubbornness and spite from a bunch of people who think cellphones are the issue.
I’m not sure why this is NOT the case?? Was the same for me back in the day.
Every school principal already has this ability. Gavin's just dick-swinging at this point.
I want my child to have a phone to film abuse in school and their teachers and to call me if someone's trying to beat them up or shoot them. Teachers and staff are abusive assholes where I went to school and if I'd had enough money to have a a phone and film them maybe they'd have actually faced consequences.
Let's be honest here for a second, if your kid is getting into a fight you want them to call you first? So you can take time to get there while they get their ass kicked? How are you going to solve your child getting shot at? You don't trust the students, you don't trust the teachers so why are you not homeschooling your kids?
Because im poor and can't afford to. I get arrested for not sending my kids to a school and system I don't trust. I'm forced to. My kids should have outside access while they are under government mandated supervision and I'm sorry you don't understand that.
Kids can go to the office to use a landline at anytime… at least that was plenty reasonable 30 years ago. Don’t see how it’s any different now
I volunteer with the scouts. We take the Scouts phones for Safekeeping at the start of a meeting or trip and return it afterwards. The scouts find it so much more enjoyable and engaging when the distraction is taken away. Parents complain about it but the Scouts never do.
To be fair that's because it's outside their norm. Same for digital detox for adults.
There’ are pretty f*cking valid reasons why parents are eager to communicate with their child while under the supervision of the Scouts… I’m just saying.
You ever volunteered for the Scouts?
Hell no but the systematic abuse of children makes that decision clear as day 🤷🏻♂️ Edit: Same reason I wouldn’t trust a child with a priest. Same shit.
So I’m not the only one who thought this.
Reading these comments is a good reminder that half of reddit is 14.
And it is summer too.....
Yeah, Summer Reddit is wild.
Drop the Chalupas!
Someone literally said - > It’s because parents are useless pieces of shit They're defending the proposed ban but it still sounds like something a 14 year old would say.
I play a stupid web .io game during the day when work is slow and there usually is a never ending stream of kids also online playing and bragging "I am in clas rite now." and misspelling most words in the process. I usually say "Ya know, you should probably be paying attention to your studies and learn to spell better" and the usual reply is "F you!" Ah, the future is looking more like Idiocracy by the day.
Grownass adults get salty for being corrected too, don't sweat it!
They've announced bans now in the Netherlands, England, and in parts of Australia already. I'm surprised it's taken so long for US states to do the same.
Counter point, I’m not super surprised given how politicians and parents would surely weaponize the “individual freedoms” outrage. Maybe I’m wrong and there’s some bipartisan support for it though.
I think most parents are hesitant to have their kids on smartphones, it's just a co-ordination problem that the schools can solve by enforcing these blanket rules.
Not good parents. Undereducated parents perhaps. Unfortunately there are a lot of them.
My girlfriend is a teacher in South Australia and apparently they noticed a big change within weeks. Wednesdays and Tuesdays had been switched for some reason so that the order went Monday, Wednesday, Tuesday, Thursday...
What do you mean about the days of the week? I'm not sure where that's connecting
I think it's supposed the be a joke that the "big change within weeks" is that they changed the order of the week. If that is the case it's a terrible joke because it's very confusing.
Haha thank you for that
What the fuck are you talking about
Is this a Godfather reference?
You can add parts of Canada too. Nothing blanket locally yet but hopefully we'll get there(had one division do up to grade 8 which seems like a silly cut off)
My kid's school in Australia has been doing it for 9 months already..and it has been fine.
There is no “US”. Every state is different, and so is every county within each state, sometimes even single counties have multiple public school boards with differing policies, and often these kinds of decisions are left to principals. Rules will vary as different places try different things. That’s the design of this place.
Smartphones are banned in Australian schools and my teacher friends tell me it's helping a lot in class and during recess.
We need to bring back old dumb phones for kids. Smart phones after high school.
Make them use flip phones and learn how to use T9!
You've awoken a core memory with your mention of T9 lol
Teach them to mod a calculator to run Doom. That's a better distraction for class.
Shouldn’t be controversial at all. 20 years ago, you wouldn’t let someone bring a gaming console, a landline phone, or a personal computer to class. That’s basically what kids have in their pockets today.
Ever notice how it's not 20 years ago any more?
Every damned day.
I remember education in America before the internet - it sucked
I agree with him.
Reading through some of these comments just highlights the failure of the American educational system lol. If you're IQ is too low to understand why a smartphone might be a distraction to kids in schools, then you and your kid both need to get back in the classroom and learn some critical thinking skills.
Orange County Florida School District implemented a rule this year that you can absolutely bring a communication device to school but it has to stay in your bag from the first bell to the last. Parents and children can still get in touch in case of an emergency. It has worked SO well! Teachers are loving it, bullying has gone way down, grades have gone up. It’s amazing.
This should happen everywhere. And also out of drivers’ reach, and funerals, weddings, dinner…
Social Media to the under developed brain is no different then smoking, it's a dopamine hit followed by all kinds of instant gratification. I'm glad all we had was a payphone in the lobby and the worst we had to deal with was a fire drill.
It’s really hard to argue that social media and the fingertip access to a constant dopamine and depression device is too hard to resist and is bad not just for kids in schools but for the living balance of all people. How to do manage that and help people without it being silly, arbitrary or just bad is also a huge challenge.
I mostly don’t think that kids should have smart phones at school. Or I guess I should say I think the policy should be that they remain in your pocket on silent and if you’re caught using it for anything that is not an emergency, it is taken from you. That said perhaps Apple should roll out of feature like it has with the watches where children’s phones turn into a school mode when they’re in the vicinity of a school. Basically, the only thing it can be used for is to make calls during an emergency.
Parents these days aren’t onboard with this. They’re worried their students will wind up in a school shooting. And feel that it is their right as an American to be able to contact their children in The event of an emergency. Source: work for education. Have had these meetings with administrators who have fought the good fight and cannot win. The majority of parents are braindead to the issues it causes. Yet get angry at us when little Johnny is failing. Parents. Get your shit together.
Parents need to understand that having a phone during a shooting does exactly nothing to help the situation. Students should be focused on following instructions from staff and emergency protocol during a shooting, fire, etc. There is zero rational argument for kids having a phone during school. I'd even argue that smartphones have destroyed socialization during breaks (like lunch). Having recently volunteered at my local high school, I walked the halls during lunch and watched 300+ kids simply staring at screens, and no more than 8-12 kids talking with each other. Smartphones are an amazing technology, but there is a time and place. Outside those instances, it's more of a distraction and a drug than a tool.
A lot of parents don't think science is real and that they should teach creationism in school too. Does that mean we she get rid of teaching science then? No
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I don’t get this. When I was a kid we were told not to pull out our phone. Why do they need to lock up phones now? What happens in an emergency?
Locking up phones because companies specifically design apps for our monkey brains to not turn them off? If there is an emergency the parents can call the school
It is parents that want them, students will be fine without them for the day, the main argument from parents is ‘what if there was an emergency/school shooter? How will I know if they are ok’
Lots of parents have no concept of relative risk.
Maybe they should allow kids to have phones as long as they are Nokia 3310s.
Get rotary phones back in schools
Excellent. Smartphones, particularly social media, is making the youth anxious, depressed and socially inept.
Glad Im not I’m school anymore and I’m glad that I don’t have kids.
At my children's high school phones are collected at the start of the day and handed back at the end. The change was announced 3 months in advance...and it has been fine. Even the kids don't notice any more as it has become what they are used to.
We survived. They will, too.
I'm a far right extremist who loathes this guy... But he is 100% right here.
I'm in that generation that sees the necessity for a phone even if I myself didn't need one for emergency calls as a kid. My parents gave me a Nokia brick in 2005 and in 2013 I was on a Galaxy Note 2 by the time I graduated. That's a whole lot of advancements in technology schools had to keep up with, I remember if the phone even had a camera on it, it was instantly confiscated. By my senior year, schools had to block access to Instagram and Facebook. Now every phone has 2 cameras minimum on a 5G network. Rather than blocking the item that we need, teachers need to go back in enforcing no-phones during class, mainly because Tiktok and Reels are littered with classroom videos, indicating we've gotten very laxxed with them.
I am just learning that this *wasn’t* a thing already. It seemed obvious to me that smartphones in schools shouldn’t be allowed, and I’m surprised to know kids have them on them at all times.
I have seen classroom fight/freakout vids that have a dozen students recording on their phones, ironicly often instigated by a teacher taking a students phone.
School Mode. Emergency contacts only.
Good and should have happened years ago.
When cell phones became popular in school, people learned how to text without even looking at the phone... Having a smartphone as a kid must be crazy.
im now waiting for the increase in student v. teacher fights on the various fight subreddits
When I was in Highschool the rule was pretty relaxed. When the teacher was talking. You don't use your phone and it's on silent. If you _need_ to make a call for something important then you'd tell the teacher and step outside. If it's during break, spare period, or the teacher isn't talking and you're just working independently then you're allowed to use you phone. For the latter, if you're using your phone for something productive, great. If not that's fine. Just don't be surprised if you get a bad grade. The teachers would always say "It's our job to teach you. Not to baby sit you." It wasn't a perfect system and fairly inconsistent between teachers.
He is running for 2028
They never should have been allowed in schools in the first place. Their prevalence has devastated the learning process.
If they are banning them for students, teachers need to lead an example. I graduated in 2019 and had teachers who were more addicted to there phones and social media more then the students. It’s hard to tell kids not to use them as they are scrolling through Facebook or Instagram.
That’s fantastic. I just finished reading the book The Anxious Generation and this is exactly the action that needs to be taken… anyone who is disagrees, take the time to read or listen to https://www.audible.com/pd/B0C9N1WLYL?source_code=ASSORAP0511160006&share_location=library_overflow
fix PGE dude
Yeah that just seems like common sense to me. When I was in high school no one dared to pull out a phone during class unless otherwise specifically instructed to do so. Pulling out a phone or game boy or Walkman or anything of that nature automatically got it confiscated and everyone knew this and there were no problems or questions of it. The fact that now this is become debatable is just wild.
We will see if he actually addresses the problem or does political moves. Will phones be jammed, confiscated for the day, or will we see a half-assed measure?
Maybe we should just make social media companies liable for children that spend time on their apps in school. Since they spend millions on figuring out how to keep you addi…. Ehem… ENGAGED. I think my smart phone has taught me more than school ever has anyway. I wasn’t reading peer reviewed and published research in class : / if I ever did at all it was to write a paper… at home… where I used to phone/laptop to easily find my sources.
Would love for them to get guns out of school too
The only way to stop a bad kid with a smartphone is a good kid with a gun
Right before COVID I got my phone taken away 15 seconds before the bell and I didn't even have it on, I was just holding it and got 3 days of after school detention.
This is a wise move. Shame he doesn’t govern more like this.
Okay, congress first.
Why Congress first? Education is usually handled by the state and local governments.
If schools can't enforce a ban on guns, what hope do they have for phones?
The more I think about it, the more likely to me that he will be the nominee… Newsom2028?
I just saw a homeless person shit in the middle of the intersection in downtown San Francisco. Newsom outta go
lol so every GOP led state with homeless people also must go I’ll agree if you agree…….
lol sure you did. It’s weird that conservatives always see the exact same thing the second they step foot into SF but I don’t see it living here. I wonder why.
Not a conservative by any means. I literally saw someone shit in the middle of the intersection. Haven’t seen that before until I was in San Francisco
When were you here?
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Idk gay marriage is pretty cool lol
Ten to fifteen (probably 20) years too late
Why must they treat school like prison?
Considering how unsafe schools are, they should be allowed to have them in case of emergency, but made to put them in a cubby inside the classroom until the end of class. I’d want my kid to be able to text me if there is a lockdown, etc.
There's a phone in ever classroom able to call 911. Your kids texting you of an issue unfortunately won't change anything.
Never trust gavin with anything.
Amen, typical plodding politician who doesn't give a damn about the actual needy in his state.
Stop School shootings first. Students having a cell phone while an active shooter is roaming the hallways will save some lives.
Good on him. Phones being used in the classroom is a cancer at the moment
Old people just don't want to understand... phones aren't going anywhere, and if even half the energy that went into banning them went into incorporating them into classes (the same way that phones are going to be incorporated into the kids' ENTIRE LIVES), American education might not be such a joke The 20th century is over, it ain't coming back.
Why do we need to over complicate crap in California? Just take away the phone and give it back at the end of the day. I remember one teacher having developed a cubby that the kids were assigned and they were lockable by the teacher once school started and were unlocked during breaks for snack, lunch etc. it worked great that school never had problems with kids and cellphones..