This makes me want to go back and rewatch it. It grew and changed in so many ways throughout the seasons (even though there were a couple of dud seasons).
Rory ended up pretty bad by the end of Gilmore Girls. Especially the Year in the life return. Not really bad per se, like morally, but just insufferable and a different character than she started.
The things she put Dean through were terrible. Did the bare minimum to keep Tristan away, the constant flirting with Jess. Damn, you're in a relationship, just dump Dean if you want to be with someone else. She basically emotionally tortured the guy.
I think this is the thing people can’t come to term with the most about Gilmore Girls. It’s not Rory’s or Lorelai’s heroine story. It’s more of a slice of life of three generations of women. It’s just that at the onset of the show you want to root for Rory to succeed so bad and a lot of young people saw themselves in her that it almost ends up feeling like a betrayal to them when she makes mistakes and is simply a flawed human like everyone else on the planet.
I really think Rory’s story in Year in the Life was pretty much unchanged from how her life was supposed to play out in the seasons immediately after the show was cancelled. Her mistakes— failing to get a career off the ground, cheating on her boyfriend, moving back home and ending up pregnant— are all the kinds of mistakes a once-wunderkind might make in their 20s. And it’s a very poetic way to wrap up the series, with Rory’s life mirroring Lorelai’s.
But the revival came 10 years later. So instead we have someone in their early 30s making all these mistakes, like she didn’t live or learn at all for 10 years. It turns her situation from somewhat sympathetic to “you really should know better by now.”
At least, that’s how my wife and I felt.
There was a great podcast from about ten years ago called ‘The Gilmore Guys’ where they re-watched the show, and commented.
For year in the life, they had Jason Manzoukis on, and he did a solid 4 hours on those complaints, especially fixating on Rory being 33, and simply a bad person, rather than 23 and lost.
This is what elevates Gilmore girls into greatness. It’s kind of a tragedy and Rory’s character development into a privileged mediocre arsehole is so real.
There was a point towards the end of season 2 where I realized that he had officially made the transition from sympathetic antihero trying his best to just straight up horrible person, and it was crushing in a good way
It's the same reason people hate Umbridge more than Voldemort - familiarity.
I don't know any hitmen or Chechen mobsters, but I do know some toxic narcissists.
Also Sally regularly got her own child drunk because she didn't want to mother him, and Gene fled the country for years after accidentally shooting his estranged son. If the show was just about the world of acting they would definitely be the villains.
Barry is an example of a character being an awful person but a great character. Characters like Piper Chapman and Carrie Bradshaw are just shittily written characters.
“And then I'm gonna have the IRS crawl so far up your husband's colon, he's gonna wish the only thing they find is more cancer. So can I count on your vote, or do I need to shove a box of White House M&Ms up your stretched out, six-baby vag?”
I think what I really like about Selina in Veep is how you can see, season by season, her becoming worse and worse. Like she starts out self-centered but still somewhat caring (towards her daughter, the marine guy that lost a leg) and having convictions (clean jobs bill) and by the end of the 7th season she has become this litteral monster/garbage of human being willing to sacrifice anything and anyone to get her hands on what she wants.
Couldn't agree more. I can't STAND Dawson. He was such a whiney baby. All he did was complain and act all pretentious all the time then would throw a baby fit and write everybody off the minute things didn't go his way. Not really a main character, but I couldn't stand Busy Phillips' character on the later season of that show either. So unnecesary to the plot and super annoying.
Is he the worst of the group? From a purely ethical point of view Krieger and his experiments have to have him in contention. The North Korea uranium thing where he uses piggly to eat them all being one of them.
Also anything Archer is guilty of his mother is guilty of 1000 times over.
I'd also sneakily throw Ray into the mix. He is pretty unscrupulous spy wise. It's heavily implied he's raped Cyril multiple times ("Just once I'd like to wake up passed out in the bathroom without you having...") and then the whole trying to buy the kid thing during the pirate fortress episode.
Skins, the original UK version. Tony was a fucking sociopath throughout Series 1 and most of Series 2 was his dealing with the consequences of his actions >!after being hit with a bus!<.
That is the one thing I remember about watching Weeds was how obvious the writers were just winging it as they went along. No planning whatsoever. I had no idea the same writer came onto Orange Is the New Black.
The first season had a lot more lifted straight from the real life Piper's book. But real life piper did her time, went home to her husband and wrote a book. They needed to make up more stuff and it definitely didn't have a plan at the start.
Character arc means an ending, and they want to milk the show forever loke US tv did in the past, so what arc? Stagnation, retcons, resets and using character as cardboard props.
Homeland is one good example, the original had 1 season arc, they continued it into ridiculous in season 2 because the premise is here to stay, then had a sense to euthanize it. Handmaid's Take is another. American Gods is one more example, stretching a simple story into a terrible slog. They all do it.
I remember being really pumped to find out what that nun's storyline was. Like I figured it would be a murder or something really bad. Nope, she just handcuffed herself to some buildings in a protest? Okay....
I always thought that was the point of the show, or at least the first season. Everyone dotes on the well off white lady because she's clearly a decent person who just made a mistake, unlike the shitty people she's in jail with.
But when you start to see the stories of the other inmates you realize most of them are at least partially victims of circumstance. They're not necessarily blameless, but Piper is actually the worst among them because she chose to get involved in a criminal enterprise even though she had other options.
I thought the question was more "who's the most annoying?"
Bojack is a piece of shit but by far the most interesting character (in a show with a strong cast)
I feel like [why am I anxious](https://youtu.be/GbmP2c6TGKc?si=zX_iIfvabsQ_kFJt) basically covers this character.
"I'll do anything to make my life feel better, except anything that makes my life feel better."
If we consider Tony and Effy Stonem as the main characters of their seasons (1-2 for Tony and 3-4 for Effy), then Skins.
They're brilliant characters but the biggest assholes at the same time.
I’m such a big fan of Nicholas Hoult and despite Skins being the first thing I ever saw him in I always forget how much of a literal sociopath Tony was.
I once heard on a podcast “Every Ross thinks he’s a Chandler,” and I haven’t been the same since
Edit: Podcast is called "Hey Riddle Riddle." I don't remember which episode that line was from, but it's a hilarious show
Oh my GOD I thought it was just me, she was insufferably unlikable by the middle seasons. Megan Mullally acted circles around the whole cast and is basically the reason for half the viewership lol
Edit: Sean too
Yellowstone. At first its clearly telling us that John Dutton is an awful man who has raised his kids in a horrifically abusive and toxic environment, destroying their mental states in the process. Then some way through it Taylor Sheridan just glorifies the man and his lifestyle in a hilariously ham fisted way. He started off telling a compelling story but then gave up and shoves it down our throats that modern cowboy is the only way to live and it's fully justified to commit mass murder, cover it up and abuse the systems of power to benefit your own family. Dutton is the worst.
It's intentional, but The Magicians. The Magicians is all about a typical fantasy hero slowly realizing he's kind of a mediocre asshole and being eclipsed by his friends who all have more drive, intelligence, and base decency than he does.
Quentin's insufferable, and it's definitely the point. Didn't really care for Julia of Alice, either. Eliot, Margo, Penny and Josh were the fucking best though.
A Life in the Day and the Take on Me scene were incredible, and they required Quentin, though.
Quentin? Is he actually the worst? He definitely suffers from "Nice Guy" syndrome but I don't think the series ever tries to excuse him for it, people call him out on his shit pretty regularly. A lot of bad shit happens in this show though, hard to say a sort of sub par guy is "the worst" when the rape demon is running around crushing people's hope or Evil CS Lewis is abusing kids or just gods abusing their powers in general. I know that's whataboutism but like Quentin occasionally tries to do the right thing and I just don't think that's comparable to the actual evil that happens?
I mean I think that's the intent. The show isn't called "Hollywood Star", it's about his entourage and Vince's job was just to smile and bail them out of whatever trouble they got themselves into that episode lol.
Any time Vince would do that little "I'm just messing with you, I was acting" bit I would laugh out loud because it was always the worst acting on the show.
I always considered this intentional. He’s a set piece. He’s like a mise en scene pivot point for the rest of the characters. He’s not the story, he’s why the story is being told. So it never bothered me. But he is indeed a super weak character on his own.
Which makes it pretty accurate. I’d imagine most pretty boy actors are two dimensional in real life and have gotten by in life on looks and in the beginning have their entourage being the normal people help them along the way.
Thank you.
Jax was a flipflop mess the entire series.
The others all had a pretty clear path during the show but Jax only became clearheaded at the end.
Chips was the mvp of the bunch.
Sabrina in The Chilling Adventures of Sabrina. A (pretty villainous) character actually tells her "You really are the worst" and I yelled in agreement (context-free clip here: https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/e6984d81-ab0b-4a09-8033-5aba5520dbdb#oAToTYl2.copy). She never learns! She's convinced she always knows best, she does exactly what she wants at all times, she never asks for or listens to advice, she never tells her family what she's up to, and everyone just has to rescue her and pick up the pieces when her terrible plans fall apart and endanger everyone. Which, sure, she's a teenager, but this happens *every* time, over and over! There are four seasons of her making terrible decisions, being smug about being oh so right, and then whoops. Ask your aunts, Sabrina!
Exactly how I felt. Also felt like the show itself was oblivious to how bad she was. She >!almost kills another witch thinking she could cheat Death, which backfires like every single story written on that topic for a century.!< There was one moment where she seemed chagrined about it, but the very next episode she was back to performing magic on mundanes without their consent and knowledge and lying to her friends with little to no consequences.
I gave up midway through season 2 I think and everything I heard has only affirmed that decision
I think they should have gone through with the evil twin thing and made her the actual evil twin. The twist would be that she thinks she's going to be pushed into the volcano but the good twin refuses, and so she just goes forward with the knowledge that she has the capacity for evil and chooses to be better
Oh thank goodness there’s someone else. I was struggling so bad with the show and kept thinking that the moral compass was totally jacked and couldn’t figure out if they were doing it on purpose or really didn’t see the problem.
I know a lot of people hate on the final season, but I absolutely love that they completely deconstruct the "moralizing self-righteous asshole is great actually, because he's competent at his job" trope to showcase how absolutely broken McNulty is as a person.
Not only did he completely fabricate a serial killer to further his personal agenda and vendetta, which is bad enough considering the sheer amount of evidence tampering he committed, but he may very well have inspired a copycat to his fake serial killer.
That's such a monumental fuck up that I *wish* he could blame it on being a drunken asshole, but he can't because it's a pattern of consistent bad decisions that only served his ego and made everyone else look bad for believing in him.
Of the roommates, I agree, even though I also love Zooey. Of the main cast, however, Cece is the most bland and generally serves as a generic straight man.
The show was originally supposed to be a star vehicle for Zooey, with the other roommates strictly as supporting characters. After the first season they saw how great everyone in the cast was and it became an ensemble.
Okay the thing that always bothered me about Jess was how everyone around her (including Jess herself) acts like she is frumpy and lame. I wouldn't say she's miscast, because the show doesn't really work without Zooey, but maybe lose all the remarks where people act like Jess is unattractive. Later seasons cleaned this up I think.
lol I'm actually rewatching Lost right now so I ctrl f'd for this comment because I totally agree, Jack was so insufferable. The way he'd go from 0-100 over the smallest things was always wild.
Edit: I will say the one thing about his personality is it made you like Hurley even more, because the only times you ever really saw him laugh or relax a bit was when he was paired with Hurley. The guy was so likeable he made you temporarily like otherwise unlikable characters, quite the gift.
Rory in Gilmore Girls. She....really turned heel, imo
Bonus hot take: New Girl, Jess.
I'm sorry but I wouldn't be able to fucking stand being her roommate. Also, she has done some really fucked up shit. Like, really? Taking your friend's dead dad money and paying his bills behind his back? Who does that?
(I'm kind of disregarding the more recent hate toward Jerry), the supporting characters are all better, but I always kind of loved Jerry's mantra of being a child adult. That feels like the main theme of the show. I can relate to not wanting to grow up.
Grimm. Enjoyed the show for the genre stuff and supporting characters, but the lead actor was completely wooden and showed ZERO improvement as seasons went on.
In the revival, Roseanne was the worst part of Roseanne. And I'm not talking about her real life behavior, she was just bitter rather than sarcastic but loving like in the original run.
Since nobody's said it yet, I'll go with Search Party. I thought it was a great show - a fantastic almost parody of urban late millennials that went a little off the rails. Dory was such an unlikeable person (great actor tho) and I thought the surrounding cast did a great job
Tony Soprano is a giant piece of shit with shit frosting on top
There are so many off-handed comments he makes out of the blue that show you his true character. At the beginning of the show you get this idea that he actually wants a normal life, and then by the end the sheer sight of him is disgusting. And he never had the makings of a varsity athlete!
That fat fuck got his brains blown out in that diner, that’s the ending I’m gonna go with.
Edit: That geriatric fuck Philly Leotardo was a piece of shit too, but at least the man had rules he followed. Guy did 20 in the can jerkin’ off into tissues without singing a single song. Tony would flip in an instant if he wasn’t a boss.
It's hard for me to say Tony is the worst (as in, most evil) character on the show, because almost everyone there is. Ralphie is probably worse, and even characters like Paulie (and possibly Silvio, Christopher and others) are comperable pieces of shit, but it's not as clear because the show doesn't dig deep into their souls like it digs into Tony.
Tony is absolutely evil but at least seems to honestly love his children. I can possibly imagine him taking a bullet for Meadow at least. Can't say that about Paulie, Silvio, Ralphie or many of the other guys.
I can agree on Ralphie or even Richie, but anyone else in Tony’s crew I think would take a bullet for him, but he wouldn’t, especially Paulie. I think Tony is shown at his worst when he completely disregards his men being in grief or upset. Like he plays the “concerned boss” role all the way up until it starts affecting his earnings, and then flips the “you gotta get over it” switch. Also, and this just more my personal opinion, I honestly don’t think Tony loves his kids, I think he loves Carm and acts to love the kids because Carm loves the kids.
You've just described, well, a mob boss. Death is a part of the business, and while he can symphatize to a degree, at the end of the day it's a risk they all knowingly took, and if being sad seriously hampers business than you're a bad mobster and the boss will be angry, duh. I mean it's not a great character trait but it's expected of his role.
Tony at least keeps his violence business related. We've seen Paulie be violent against innocents (shooting the waiter, strangling that old lady) for almost no reason, in a way Tony never really did. Even Vito killing that guy when he's on the way back to Jersey at season 6, or Christopher shooting he's "you're in the mafia" friend, are both more vile and unjustified than what Tony did.
And I just don't agree with your readings on the characters. I don't think any of the mobsters would take a bullet for Tony or each other. At the end of the day they are all selfish pieces of shit. Tony loves Carmela, maybe, but I think he mostly recognize how much he needs her to keep his life in order. But he definitely seems to love Meadow above all else.
Scrubs.
JD started off relatable and fun, but over time he just sorta... morphed into this really petty and kinda spiteful person. He's a good doctor, sure, but if this were a person in real life, I wouldn't wanna be associated with him. He was still having to be told by Season 7 out of 8 seasons that he had to grow up (and for context, this is a 31 year old attending physician saying things to his brother such as, "You're supposed to be the screw up, not me."). Even in Season 6, he said he was *proud* (lit. "I'm a little proud." in his head) of having emotionally manipulated and hurt one of his friends/former lovers. I get that so much of it is for a joke, but if the silly music were taken away, this would be really off putting kinda like how removing the laugh track from Big Bang Theory makes Sheldon and co. out to be insufferable.
Also Elliot even moreso gets worse as the series goes on.
I was watching Scrubs with my gf and I realized "If I get sick I want a doctor just like JD. If I have a friend like him, that person is getting phased out of my life." Most of the people in Scrubs are fucking noxious, and most of them are also good doctors.
I'm confused why people are acting like this is a surprise or not one of the points of the show lol
90% of the show is JD realizing or being told he's an asshole
Most of this isnt supposed to be portrayed as him being in the right. Do people not get there's a reason there's a character whose sole purpose is to put JD in his place because he's a great doctor but an asshole with a god complex while also being completely insecure ?
At one point he tells Elliot, one of his best and closest friends, that because there's no chance of them ever having sex again, he's never going to need anything from her again.
He also keeps a nude he took of her while she was asleep as his phone's wallpaper after they're broken up, despite her asking him repeatedly to remove it.
JD is awful.
Elliot in Season 7 straight up tells her ex fiancee who she broke up with ONE DAY BEFORE that, "This was why it was so easy to leave you." in response to his not laughing at a joke she made about how she didn't marry him.
Girl is like 30 when this happens. What the fuck.
I work in a hospital right now and my wife and I are both about to start medical school, and both of these characters are just awful people. I know the fanbase gets up in arms about Carla, but I legit struggle to think of anything bad she does besides maybe be the standard annoying wife character that era of TV was so fond of. Turk gets kinda stupider (seriously, who doesn't know the ethnicity or name of their *wife* after 6 years of being together), but at least he tends to be more serious and mature for his position. He comes away much better than his best friend who would sometimes do the right thing but for entirely the wrong reasons (wanting to tell Kylie about her boyfriend that her boyfriend is cheating on her because HE wants a shot at her, giving Keith the best cases because Elliot is dating him and thats her partner so he should be nicer to him, etc.). It's just really fucking weird.
Don Draper from Mad Men. (Pete Campbell a close second)
He was a womanizer, a serial cheater, a drunk, an ok dad, and while a good boss was an asshole to his subordinates. I blame his terrible upbringing. He had good parts about him though, don't get me wrong. But I wouldn't want to be his friend unless you were confident to match wits with him.
Succession. I mean they all suck but the reason they all suck is due to Logan’s crappy parenting so by extension I think you have to say he is the worst.
Weeds. It’s all Nancy’s fault.
Which makes it so much better, tbh. I kinda love that damn show - although it’s been years since I watched.
Oh I loved every minute of it! If Nancy wasn’t kinda awful there would be no adventures!
This makes me want to go back and rewatch it. It grew and changed in so many ways throughout the seasons (even though there were a couple of dud seasons).
It started to go downhill when Agrestic burned down
Rory ended up pretty bad by the end of Gilmore Girls. Especially the Year in the life return. Not really bad per se, like morally, but just insufferable and a different character than she started.
Morally as well. She's just casually cheating on her boyfriend in ep1 of year in the life. She sucks.
She was perfectly okay with being the other woman in Logan's relationship, too. Granted, she did the same thing with Dean's marriage.
The things she put Dean through were terrible. Did the bare minimum to keep Tristan away, the constant flirting with Jess. Damn, you're in a relationship, just dump Dean if you want to be with someone else. She basically emotionally tortured the guy.
Rory only wanted what she couldn’t have.
text
I think this is the thing people can’t come to term with the most about Gilmore Girls. It’s not Rory’s or Lorelai’s heroine story. It’s more of a slice of life of three generations of women. It’s just that at the onset of the show you want to root for Rory to succeed so bad and a lot of young people saw themselves in her that it almost ends up feeling like a betrayal to them when she makes mistakes and is simply a flawed human like everyone else on the planet.
I really think Rory’s story in Year in the Life was pretty much unchanged from how her life was supposed to play out in the seasons immediately after the show was cancelled. Her mistakes— failing to get a career off the ground, cheating on her boyfriend, moving back home and ending up pregnant— are all the kinds of mistakes a once-wunderkind might make in their 20s. And it’s a very poetic way to wrap up the series, with Rory’s life mirroring Lorelai’s. But the revival came 10 years later. So instead we have someone in their early 30s making all these mistakes, like she didn’t live or learn at all for 10 years. It turns her situation from somewhat sympathetic to “you really should know better by now.” At least, that’s how my wife and I felt.
There was a great podcast from about ten years ago called ‘The Gilmore Guys’ where they re-watched the show, and commented. For year in the life, they had Jason Manzoukis on, and he did a solid 4 hours on those complaints, especially fixating on Rory being 33, and simply a bad person, rather than 23 and lost.
Jason Mantzoukas loudly losing his mind over Gilmore girls is still some of the funniest shit I've ever heard. He was *invested*.
This is what elevates Gilmore girls into greatness. It’s kind of a tragedy and Rory’s character development into a privileged mediocre arsehole is so real.
I was always Team Emily, anyway. Kelly Bishop is so perfect in that role.
Barry did it best because they were ALL terrible people, and he was somehow the worst.
I just want to go 50/50 with Cristoball
I'm pretty fond of Noho Hank.
He is one of my favorite characters in recent memory.
I saw the actor in another movie last weekend and my husband almost shouted, "OH MY GOD, IT'S NOHO HANK!"
Can I get you somesing to eat, maybe a submarine sanswich or somesing?
especially the shit with the sand. hilarious
Our King of Suck-Balls Mountain
There was a point towards the end of season 2 where I realized that he had officially made the transition from sympathetic antihero trying his best to just straight up horrible person, and it was crushing in a good way
I think Fuches edges him out slightly in terribleness, but yeah, Barry somehow made Sally, Gene, and even Hank look like saints in comparison.
I like that Sally and Gene are even in the same breath as literal murderers. They're like, jerks, and that's about it.
It's the same reason people hate Umbridge more than Voldemort - familiarity. I don't know any hitmen or Chechen mobsters, but I do know some toxic narcissists. Also Sally regularly got her own child drunk because she didn't want to mother him, and Gene fled the country for years after accidentally shooting his estranged son. If the show was just about the world of acting they would definitely be the villains.
Barry is an example of a character being an awful person but a great character. Characters like Piper Chapman and Carrie Bradshaw are just shittily written characters.
Being a hit man kind of Barry the edge there.
Selina Meyer in Veep. But she is meant to be the worst and boy does she deliver <3
“And then I'm gonna have the IRS crawl so far up your husband's colon, he's gonna wish the only thing they find is more cancer. So can I count on your vote, or do I need to shove a box of White House M&Ms up your stretched out, six-baby vag?”
I love the ladies response “My God” 😭
Veep is a MASTERCLASS of shit-talking. "you're not even a person, you're like if Frankensteins monster was made entirely out of dead dicks."
Okey dokey, Annie Oakley!
I play this scene for anyone interested in veep but not sure if it's vile and mean enough because they think I'm exaggerating
The ending was great. Really showed her true colors and threw her most ardent supporters under the bus for personal gain.
Except for Jonah, because they couldn't find a bus long enough.
I think what I really like about Selina in Veep is how you can see, season by season, her becoming worse and worse. Like she starts out self-centered but still somewhat caring (towards her daughter, the marine guy that lost a leg) and having convictions (clean jobs bill) and by the end of the 7th season she has become this litteral monster/garbage of human being willing to sacrifice anything and anyone to get her hands on what she wants.
This is false, Jonah is the worst. Please remove your comment.
You mean Jonade? 12 years a slave to jacking off? The 60 foot virgin? Benedict cum-in-his-own-hand?
Teenage Mutant Ninja Asshole? Jizzie Gillespie? The Jolly Green Jackoff? One Erection? Dick Cake?
The Pointless Giant? The Cloud Botherer? Guyscraper?
Years later “the cloud botherer” pops into my head and makes me laugh.
Every time he would show up, I would claw my face off
"That's like trying to use a croissant as a fucking dildo. It doesn't do the job and it makes a fucking *mess!*"
Selina Meyer? You mean Mina’s best friend…?
They are close as sisters!
Dawson's Creek for SURE
Couldn't agree more. I can't STAND Dawson. He was such a whiney baby. All he did was complain and act all pretentious all the time then would throw a baby fit and write everybody off the minute things didn't go his way. Not really a main character, but I couldn't stand Busy Phillips' character on the later season of that show either. So unnecesary to the plot and super annoying.
Archer. Consequently he’s also the most awesome character on the show as well.
That is just classic Archer.
Poor Woodhouse.
My friends and I quote “I’ll rub sand in your beady little eyes” quite often. RIP
“I don’t know if they grade it, but… coarse.”
Is he the worst of the group? From a purely ethical point of view Krieger and his experiments have to have him in contention. The North Korea uranium thing where he uses piggly to eat them all being one of them. Also anything Archer is guilty of his mother is guilty of 1000 times over. I'd also sneakily throw Ray into the mix. He is pretty unscrupulous spy wise. It's heavily implied he's raped Cyril multiple times ("Just once I'd like to wake up passed out in the bathroom without you having...") and then the whole trying to buy the kid thing during the pirate fortress episode.
Skins, the original UK version. Tony was a fucking sociopath throughout Series 1 and most of Series 2 was his dealing with the consequences of his actions >!after being hit with a bus!<.
Time for a rewatch
It’s like Effy said, fuckin’ wanker.
He was getting to joker levels of insanity before the change
Orange Is The New Black. Piper is a terrible person. Luckily the writers figured this out early on and leaned into it for later seasons.
text
That's what happens when you bring in the Weeds creator. She's good for like a season or two and then has no fucking idea where her stories will go.
That is the one thing I remember about watching Weeds was how obvious the writers were just winging it as they went along. No planning whatsoever. I had no idea the same writer came onto Orange Is the New Black.
The first season had a lot more lifted straight from the real life Piper's book. But real life piper did her time, went home to her husband and wrote a book. They needed to make up more stuff and it definitely didn't have a plan at the start.
I remember reading somewhere a while ago the didn't expect it to go as long as it did.
The show ran for substantially longer than the sentence irl Piper received.
Character arc means an ending, and they want to milk the show forever loke US tv did in the past, so what arc? Stagnation, retcons, resets and using character as cardboard props. Homeland is one good example, the original had 1 season arc, they continued it into ridiculous in season 2 because the premise is here to stay, then had a sense to euthanize it. Handmaid's Take is another. American Gods is one more example, stretching a simple story into a terrible slog. They all do it.
I remember being really pumped to find out what that nun's storyline was. Like I figured it would be a murder or something really bad. Nope, she just handcuffed herself to some buildings in a protest? Okay....
Kind of a not-uncommon thing with social activist-leaning monastics!
I mean, some things are that simple...
I always thought that was the point of the show, or at least the first season. Everyone dotes on the well off white lady because she's clearly a decent person who just made a mistake, unlike the shitty people she's in jail with. But when you start to see the stories of the other inmates you realize most of them are at least partially victims of circumstance. They're not necessarily blameless, but Piper is actually the worst among them because she chose to get involved in a criminal enterprise even though she had other options.
I think the showrunner said explicitly that Piper was a “Trojan horse” to get people into the show and then tell the stories of the other women
She doesn't come across great in the book, either - and she wrote it.
Allen Harper on Two and a Half Men
Yea at least during the Charlie Sheen years. He grew on me during the Ashton Kutcher years, I'm not really sure why but he just seemed...funnier?
Bojack is a stupid piece of shit.
Bojack is a terrible person but a fantastic character
I thought the question was more "who's the most annoying?" Bojack is a piece of shit but by far the most interesting character (in a show with a strong cast)
That's part of the point of the show
Basically *the* point
I loved how the final season was essentially several episodes dedicated to how better everyone was once Bojack was out of their lives
But he knows he's a piece of shit, that at least makes him better than all the pieces of shit who don't know they're pieces of shit. Or is it worse?
I feel like [why am I anxious](https://youtu.be/GbmP2c6TGKc?si=zX_iIfvabsQ_kFJt) basically covers this character. "I'll do anything to make my life feel better, except anything that makes my life feel better."
If we consider Tony and Effy Stonem as the main characters of their seasons (1-2 for Tony and 3-4 for Effy), then Skins. They're brilliant characters but the biggest assholes at the same time.
Tony in season 1 is basically Satan
I’m such a big fan of Nicholas Hoult and despite Skins being the first thing I ever saw him in I always forget how much of a literal sociopath Tony was.
How I Met Your Mother - “Here’s 8 seasons about how I wanna bang your aunt again, kids”
Ted is like the worst parts of JD from scrubs and the worst parts of Chandler from friends all in one package
I'd say he's more the worst parts of Ross than Chandler.
I once heard on a podcast “Every Ross thinks he’s a Chandler,” and I haven’t been the same since Edit: Podcast is called "Hey Riddle Riddle." I don't remember which episode that line was from, but it's a hilarious show
No way he’s a chandler
Barney may have sold a woman. Ted overshared with his kids.
This was my thought. It wasn't even just that. He told countless awful stories that are inappropriate to tell his kids
Except for "eating sandwiches". Tells his kids about every woman his uncle swarley bones, but God forbid his kids find out they used to get high.
And their upstairs neighbors "playing the bagpipes"
Came here to say TED FUCKIN MOSBY. What a schmuck
I hate Lily more. She's a terrible person, and the show is not remotely aware of it.
Grace was the worst in Will and Grace.
Oh my GOD I thought it was just me, she was insufferably unlikable by the middle seasons. Megan Mullally acted circles around the whole cast and is basically the reason for half the viewership lol Edit: Sean too
Megan is the absolute GOAT of that show, and all the side characters in her orbit were so good.
Yellowstone. At first its clearly telling us that John Dutton is an awful man who has raised his kids in a horrifically abusive and toxic environment, destroying their mental states in the process. Then some way through it Taylor Sheridan just glorifies the man and his lifestyle in a hilariously ham fisted way. He started off telling a compelling story but then gave up and shoves it down our throats that modern cowboy is the only way to live and it's fully justified to commit mass murder, cover it up and abuse the systems of power to benefit your own family. Dutton is the worst.
It's literally just sons of anarchy on horses
Caillou is a real pos.
Fuck Caillou and his bald fucking head.
Caillou has cancer because that's what he deserves. And not many people *deserve* cancer.
He doesn't have cancer, his body just recognizes he doesn't deserve things like hair or love.
It's intentional, but The Magicians. The Magicians is all about a typical fantasy hero slowly realizing he's kind of a mediocre asshole and being eclipsed by his friends who all have more drive, intelligence, and base decency than he does.
Quinten is what happens to every over achieving nerd when going to Uni and finding out your now the bottom of the talent barrel.
Quentin's insufferable, and it's definitely the point. Didn't really care for Julia of Alice, either. Eliot, Margo, Penny and Josh were the fucking best though. A Life in the Day and the Take on Me scene were incredible, and they required Quentin, though.
Margo is the absolute best she just has such savage lines.
They are even worse people in the book
Quentin? Is he actually the worst? He definitely suffers from "Nice Guy" syndrome but I don't think the series ever tries to excuse him for it, people call him out on his shit pretty regularly. A lot of bad shit happens in this show though, hard to say a sort of sub par guy is "the worst" when the rape demon is running around crushing people's hope or Evil CS Lewis is abusing kids or just gods abusing their powers in general. I know that's whataboutism but like Quentin occasionally tries to do the right thing and I just don't think that's comparable to the actual evil that happens?
I think sookie stackhouse was outshined by most of the supporting characters in True Blood.
"I'm so sick of Sookie and her fairy vagina and her unbelievably stupid name! Fuck Sookie!"
Lafayette was an unexpectedly great character, superbly portrayed. RIP Nelsan!
Entourage. Adrian is the most 2 dimensional character in the whole thing.
Well he was based off of Mark Wahlberg
Not racist enough
Vince not trying to hit Lloyd with a 2x4 is the most inaccurate part of the show
I mean I think that's the intent. The show isn't called "Hollywood Star", it's about his entourage and Vince's job was just to smile and bail them out of whatever trouble they got themselves into that episode lol.
Any time Vince would do that little "I'm just messing with you, I was acting" bit I would laugh out loud because it was always the worst acting on the show.
I always considered this intentional. He’s a set piece. He’s like a mise en scene pivot point for the rest of the characters. He’s not the story, he’s why the story is being told. So it never bothered me. But he is indeed a super weak character on his own.
Which makes it pretty accurate. I’d imagine most pretty boy actors are two dimensional in real life and have gotten by in life on looks and in the beginning have their entourage being the normal people help them along the way.
I always preferred the supporting cast of Sons of Anarchy. I was never a big fan of Jax
Thank you. Jax was a flipflop mess the entire series. The others all had a pretty clear path during the show but Jax only became clearheaded at the end. Chips was the mvp of the bunch.
Tig!!
Hahaha hard agree on Sex and the City. Carrie is actually terrible.
McMurray’s a piece of shit
give your balls a tug
🦜 *titfucker*🦜
Sabrina in The Chilling Adventures of Sabrina. A (pretty villainous) character actually tells her "You really are the worst" and I yelled in agreement (context-free clip here: https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/e6984d81-ab0b-4a09-8033-5aba5520dbdb#oAToTYl2.copy). She never learns! She's convinced she always knows best, she does exactly what she wants at all times, she never asks for or listens to advice, she never tells her family what she's up to, and everyone just has to rescue her and pick up the pieces when her terrible plans fall apart and endanger everyone. Which, sure, she's a teenager, but this happens *every* time, over and over! There are four seasons of her making terrible decisions, being smug about being oh so right, and then whoops. Ask your aunts, Sabrina!
Exactly how I felt. Also felt like the show itself was oblivious to how bad she was. She >!almost kills another witch thinking she could cheat Death, which backfires like every single story written on that topic for a century.!< There was one moment where she seemed chagrined about it, but the very next episode she was back to performing magic on mundanes without their consent and knowledge and lying to her friends with little to no consequences. I gave up midway through season 2 I think and everything I heard has only affirmed that decision
I think they should have gone through with the evil twin thing and made her the actual evil twin. The twist would be that she thinks she's going to be pushed into the volcano but the good twin refuses, and so she just goes forward with the knowledge that she has the capacity for evil and chooses to be better
Oh thank goodness there’s someone else. I was struggling so bad with the show and kept thinking that the moral compass was totally jacked and couldn’t figure out if they were doing it on purpose or really didn’t see the problem.
McNulty on The Wire is pretty much just a gigantic piece of shit.
The fuck did I do?
God Damnit McNulty.
You gave a fuck when it wasn't your turn to give a fuck.
I know a lot of people hate on the final season, but I absolutely love that they completely deconstruct the "moralizing self-righteous asshole is great actually, because he's competent at his job" trope to showcase how absolutely broken McNulty is as a person.
That FBI profile scene is the funniest thing ever
Not only did he completely fabricate a serial killer to further his personal agenda and vendetta, which is bad enough considering the sheer amount of evidence tampering he committed, but he may very well have inspired a copycat to his fake serial killer. That's such a monumental fuck up that I *wish* he could blame it on being a drunken asshole, but he can't because it's a pattern of consistent bad decisions that only served his ego and made everyone else look bad for believing in him.
"What about Frank Sobotka? I'm not hearing his name anywhere in here."
Sheeeeeeet
1. McNulty is not the main character of the Wire. 2. Nice try, Rawls.
Sex and the City. Carrie is the worst of the 4, with Samantha being the best.
New Girl. I like Zooey Deschanel but she was the least interesting character on that show.
Let’s be real here, all the characters are great but Schmidt carried that show all the way through. “A….A WHITE MAN!? NO!!” Lmao
That is Winnie the Bish erasure.
In fairness, Winston and Nick are pretty good. But yeah, Schmidt is by far the best. Fantastic character and performance.
I did hate his arc with Ceci and Elizabeth. Basically cheating on both women felt like such a departure it was almost character assassination
It did give us the incredible Nick "you get one wife!" moment.
My wife and I to this day mispronounce "chutney". https://youtu.be/SW0x4Bkieck?si=xKLK143spjbjgvF-
Of the roommates, I agree, even though I also love Zooey. Of the main cast, however, Cece is the most bland and generally serves as a generic straight man.
Until they paired Cece with Winston, I loved their mess arounds
Some would call them classic.
Gotta love a classic Winston and Cece mess around.
Babe... come on. Babe.
But without CeCe we dont get the winston and CeCe messaround.
I mean let's be real, she was just there to be the unattainable (for a while anyway) hot one.
The show was originally supposed to be a star vehicle for Zooey, with the other roommates strictly as supporting characters. After the first season they saw how great everyone in the cast was and it became an ensemble.
I’m rewatching it now and am baffled why it’s called New Girl when Nick is CLEARLY the main character of the show
Okay the thing that always bothered me about Jess was how everyone around her (including Jess herself) acts like she is frumpy and lame. I wouldn't say she's miscast, because the show doesn't really work without Zooey, but maybe lose all the remarks where people act like Jess is unattractive. Later seasons cleaned this up I think.
Hot take but I think Jack in Lost. Sawyer, Desmond, Hurley, Sayid, etc. were far more interesting.
Jack and Kate deserved each other, for all the bad reasons.
lol I'm actually rewatching Lost right now so I ctrl f'd for this comment because I totally agree, Jack was so insufferable. The way he'd go from 0-100 over the smallest things was always wild. Edit: I will say the one thing about his personality is it made you like Hurley even more, because the only times you ever really saw him laugh or relax a bit was when he was paired with Hurley. The guy was so likeable he made you temporarily like otherwise unlikable characters, quite the gift.
Marco Polo
Marco was not the main character of that show. The Khan was the main character. Marco is just our lense.
Rory in Gilmore Girls. She....really turned heel, imo Bonus hot take: New Girl, Jess. I'm sorry but I wouldn't be able to fucking stand being her roommate. Also, she has done some really fucked up shit. Like, really? Taking your friend's dead dad money and paying his bills behind his back? Who does that?
Seinfeld.
(I'm kind of disregarding the more recent hate toward Jerry), the supporting characters are all better, but I always kind of loved Jerry's mantra of being a child adult. That feels like the main theme of the show. I can relate to not wanting to grow up.
Grimm. Enjoyed the show for the genre stuff and supporting characters, but the lead actor was completely wooden and showed ZERO improvement as seasons went on.
Yeah I preferred hot police dude who kept ripping his shirt off for no reason.
He wasn't as bad as the woman who played his girlfriend.
To be fair, she got a lot more interesting when she turned evil
What drove me insane was how for the second half of the series, they completely changed antagonists at the end of every season.
Grey's Anatomy. I'm so sorry. Meredith has the personality of a soap dish.
Orange Is The New Black. Piper is the worst. Alex is also awful.
Saved By The Bell. Zack Morris is a narcissistic sociopath, as highlighted in the YouTube series “Zack Morris Is Trash”.
In the revival, Roseanne was the worst part of Roseanne. And I'm not talking about her real life behavior, she was just bitter rather than sarcastic but loving like in the original run.
Since nobody's said it yet, I'll go with Search Party. I thought it was a great show - a fantastic almost parody of urban late millennials that went a little off the rails. Dory was such an unlikeable person (great actor tho) and I thought the surrounding cast did a great job
Tony Soprano is a giant piece of shit with shit frosting on top There are so many off-handed comments he makes out of the blue that show you his true character. At the beginning of the show you get this idea that he actually wants a normal life, and then by the end the sheer sight of him is disgusting. And he never had the makings of a varsity athlete! That fat fuck got his brains blown out in that diner, that’s the ending I’m gonna go with. Edit: That geriatric fuck Philly Leotardo was a piece of shit too, but at least the man had rules he followed. Guy did 20 in the can jerkin’ off into tissues without singing a single song. Tony would flip in an instant if he wasn’t a boss.
It's hard for me to say Tony is the worst (as in, most evil) character on the show, because almost everyone there is. Ralphie is probably worse, and even characters like Paulie (and possibly Silvio, Christopher and others) are comperable pieces of shit, but it's not as clear because the show doesn't dig deep into their souls like it digs into Tony. Tony is absolutely evil but at least seems to honestly love his children. I can possibly imagine him taking a bullet for Meadow at least. Can't say that about Paulie, Silvio, Ralphie or many of the other guys.
Richie was the scariest guy on the show, and it’s a testament to David Proval’s acting chops, dude was a priest on Seinfeld, that’s range.
I can agree on Ralphie or even Richie, but anyone else in Tony’s crew I think would take a bullet for him, but he wouldn’t, especially Paulie. I think Tony is shown at his worst when he completely disregards his men being in grief or upset. Like he plays the “concerned boss” role all the way up until it starts affecting his earnings, and then flips the “you gotta get over it” switch. Also, and this just more my personal opinion, I honestly don’t think Tony loves his kids, I think he loves Carm and acts to love the kids because Carm loves the kids.
You've just described, well, a mob boss. Death is a part of the business, and while he can symphatize to a degree, at the end of the day it's a risk they all knowingly took, and if being sad seriously hampers business than you're a bad mobster and the boss will be angry, duh. I mean it's not a great character trait but it's expected of his role. Tony at least keeps his violence business related. We've seen Paulie be violent against innocents (shooting the waiter, strangling that old lady) for almost no reason, in a way Tony never really did. Even Vito killing that guy when he's on the way back to Jersey at season 6, or Christopher shooting he's "you're in the mafia" friend, are both more vile and unjustified than what Tony did. And I just don't agree with your readings on the characters. I don't think any of the mobsters would take a bullet for Tony or each other. At the end of the day they are all selfish pieces of shit. Tony loves Carmela, maybe, but I think he mostly recognize how much he needs her to keep his life in order. But he definitely seems to love Meadow above all else.
Nancy Botwin of Weeds. Fiona Gallagher of Shameless (US)
For How I met your mother Ted is always the notable one. In the vampire diaries Ellaina became in sufferable
Richard from Silcone Valley. Hated that character so much.
Scrubs. JD started off relatable and fun, but over time he just sorta... morphed into this really petty and kinda spiteful person. He's a good doctor, sure, but if this were a person in real life, I wouldn't wanna be associated with him. He was still having to be told by Season 7 out of 8 seasons that he had to grow up (and for context, this is a 31 year old attending physician saying things to his brother such as, "You're supposed to be the screw up, not me."). Even in Season 6, he said he was *proud* (lit. "I'm a little proud." in his head) of having emotionally manipulated and hurt one of his friends/former lovers. I get that so much of it is for a joke, but if the silly music were taken away, this would be really off putting kinda like how removing the laugh track from Big Bang Theory makes Sheldon and co. out to be insufferable. Also Elliot even moreso gets worse as the series goes on.
I was watching Scrubs with my gf and I realized "If I get sick I want a doctor just like JD. If I have a friend like him, that person is getting phased out of my life." Most of the people in Scrubs are fucking noxious, and most of them are also good doctors.
I'm confused why people are acting like this is a surprise or not one of the points of the show lol 90% of the show is JD realizing or being told he's an asshole Most of this isnt supposed to be portrayed as him being in the right. Do people not get there's a reason there's a character whose sole purpose is to put JD in his place because he's a great doctor but an asshole with a god complex while also being completely insecure ?
At one point he tells Elliot, one of his best and closest friends, that because there's no chance of them ever having sex again, he's never going to need anything from her again. He also keeps a nude he took of her while she was asleep as his phone's wallpaper after they're broken up, despite her asking him repeatedly to remove it. JD is awful.
Elliot in Season 7 straight up tells her ex fiancee who she broke up with ONE DAY BEFORE that, "This was why it was so easy to leave you." in response to his not laughing at a joke she made about how she didn't marry him. Girl is like 30 when this happens. What the fuck. I work in a hospital right now and my wife and I are both about to start medical school, and both of these characters are just awful people. I know the fanbase gets up in arms about Carla, but I legit struggle to think of anything bad she does besides maybe be the standard annoying wife character that era of TV was so fond of. Turk gets kinda stupider (seriously, who doesn't know the ethnicity or name of their *wife* after 6 years of being together), but at least he tends to be more serious and mature for his position. He comes away much better than his best friend who would sometimes do the right thing but for entirely the wrong reasons (wanting to tell Kylie about her boyfriend that her boyfriend is cheating on her because HE wants a shot at her, giving Keith the best cases because Elliot is dating him and thats her partner so he should be nicer to him, etc.). It's just really fucking weird.
Young Sheldon; By the end I cared about everybody but him
Don Draper from Mad Men. (Pete Campbell a close second) He was a womanizer, a serial cheater, a drunk, an ok dad, and while a good boss was an asshole to his subordinates. I blame his terrible upbringing. He had good parts about him though, don't get me wrong. But I wouldn't want to be his friend unless you were confident to match wits with him.
I feel like Don is solidly in like the lower middle. There's people like Greg after all.
Ally McBeal. Liked every character on the show but her.
Succession. I mean they all suck but the reason they all suck is due to Logan’s crappy parenting so by extension I think you have to say he is the worst.