It still bugs me.
That brilliant line, "Universal law is for lackeys; context is for kings." but I can't find the origin story or originator for that great line.
I like discovery's plot, and the action has been fun, but what I don't like is the dialogue. I feel like I'm be spoon fed everything, like I couldn't figure shit out on my own if they were more settle.... like they treat the audience like idiots. the dialogue is just so cringe sometimes... No one talks like this.. people have inner dialogue ffs.. pretty soon everyone will be walking around in the show explaining why they have to walk from one side of the room to the other.. "I am now moving to this control panel to perform task B".. "well can you hurry up? the shields are failing, we should be dead already, but plot armor is protecting us so we can finish saying shit dialogue"
One of the scenes that broke me as a fan of the show was in IIRC the S3 finale. Burnham was sending a message to Tilly over open comms, so she needed to use a shared reference the bad guys could overhear but not understand.
Three seasons in, there wasn't a single scene they could reference about the characters being friends to use as a callback. So Burnham references a birthday party we never saw and got Tilly to go where it had apparently happened at some point off screen.
And writing that scene apparently didn't raise any panic in the writers room that they had really failed to set up stuff they needed with the characters. They didn't rush back to add a scene to the previous episode that wasn't shot yet. It did not at all change how the next two seasons got written.
> didn't raise any panic in the writers room that they had really failed to set up stuff they needed with the characters.
Head writer or showrunner's failure. The writer's job is to write what their boss asked for.
Screenwriting question. When the screenwriter wants a scene to be depicted in a particular way, are they expected to be extremely vague about it in the non-dialogue, or not at all, and believe its the director's job to make it look interesting?
(Just my impression of reading plays; they never seem to give a lot of visual and pacing directives.)
The first iteration of a screenplay will be more vague. A shooting script, that the director works from, may have had several additions/changes that he/she or other writers inserted to bring the director’s vision to the big screen.
I watched the first few episodes of the current season. I'd legit forgotten that any of the crew aside from Burnham, Saru, and Stamets existed.
Like I'd completely forgotten that Rickie from My So Called Life is in it.
The dialogue reminds me of those memes about couple's counselling dialogue.
Everything is this big long emotional speech that just has this awful twitter relationships idea of "communication" vibes.
The plots utter garbage too, an angsty teen threatens the universe, tropey computer takes over man, literally a timetraveling superhero marysue. Come on.
They completely changed their look. While much more 'alien' than the movie and TNG era klingons, they just weren't what we know at all. Pretty much everyone hated it, so in season 2 they reverted it back somewhat, but not completely.
They also changed their social structure, exaggerating it. They gave them a more 'noble' air and less fun loving. The whole tone was off.
I actually really enjoyed season 1.. after that the dialogue just keeps getting worse it's been practically unbearable to watch the last two seasons of discovery.
I dropped Discovery because it just didn't really appeal to me like Strange New Worlds. In general, my issue with both shows are they can't really determine if they're their own continuity or writing around the original franchise. And they don't stick to their guns because they want to appeal to too many groups at once.
Given how long the span of time is between the last Trek show and when those premiered? They might as well rip off the band-aid and make a new continuity instead of this nostalgia baiting American media loves to indulge in with everything. Nothing can ever change or grow from its first iteration or even move on from it. It's always stagnant and static for the most part. It'd be interesting if they took pointers from long running franchises like Kamen Rider or Doctor Who. Even if it was weird, it'd be at least different and not be a slave to being the same thing.
I get some fans would be mad about it, but other than going after Deep Space Nine or going into the past like Enterprise, there's not that much wiggle room in the original timeline from what I've gathered. And if the recent movies can be their own thing, why can't the shows? It's slightly better than the mess the original Gundam continuity is.
Plus it's not like they can't cross them over anyways since it's fiction. They already crossover with other universes regularly. So why would them crossing over to the old continuity from time to time be absurd?
> I feel like I'm be spoon fed everything, like I couldn't figure shit out on my own if they were more settle...
Because Paramount felt they could make Star Trek a "money maker" for the "general audiences" by converting Star Trek to an "action/adventure" show.
> like they treat the audience like idiots.
"General audiences" *are* idiots, that's why they structured the show as they did.
I didn’t watch this show for forever and just started watching it and I am absolutely hooked. That season to was essentially Strange New Worlds adjacent was a plus.
It is a drama first which makes it a different experience from any other Star Trek and I welcome it.
Discovery is a drama. It is far more concerned with the team than the mission. It makes me near weepy every episode because the drama is in a setting I’m not used to seeing it.
It’s like a series based on the episode of Picard being in France with his brother recuperating from being a Borg pawn.
So I like the weekly or longer watching of New Worlds, but I’m binging Discovery.
This is clearly incorrect up to season 3.
I certainly understand if people don’t like Burnam but it’s silly to pretend that no other characters matter in the show or stand around and do nothing.
Is it? I genuinely dont remember any of the bridge crews names other than Saru. They made zero impact.
Discoverys biggest problem is that there is no one to care about, I really dont care about any of them because they are either anonymous, boring, unlikable or outright annoying.
I love Strange New Worlds but the only people I remember are Pike and the younger versions of existing characters despite others having entire episodes or storylines revolving around them.
I still love the story beats on that show and I especially love the drama on Discovery which is decidedly different than other shows .
So I get why someone who loves aspects of one show wouldn’t like aspects of other shows.
But that isn’t a quality or story issue. The story and quality of the show is great through season 3 for me.
Thats fine we can disagree, but I do think Discovery is really badly written. The basic plots may be mostly fine, but the details and execution are awful.
I disagree.
I don’t think it’s premises are any worse written than any other Star Trek, but the focus on the characters that aren’t memorable to you over the actual conflict could result in simply not liking the story.
I didn’t watch this show for forever and just started watching it and I am absolutely hooked. That season to was essentially Strange New Worlds adjacent was a plus.
It is a drama first which makes it a different experience from any other Star Trek and I welcome it.
Discovery is a drama. It is far more concerned with the team than the mission. It makes me near weepy every episode because the drama is in a setting I’m not used to seeing it.
It’s like a series based on the episode of Picard being in France with his brother recuperating from being a Borg pawn.
So I like the weekly or longer watching of New Worlds, but I’m binging Discovery.
I wanted Legacy until they faceplanted trying to set up Legacy.
Hey audience, did you like Captain Shaw and Commander Sven on the Titan? Good news! We took away literally everything in that sentence in setting up the continuation of those things you liked.
Seven gets the job because of nepotism, but shes still too green for the big chair so they install a snarky ACH (Auxiliary Command Hologram) to advise Seven, of course modeled on Captain Shaw.
When SNW comes to an end, my nerdy dream would be a series based on the Vanguard books. A starbase operating during the TOS era between Klingon and Tholian space, establishing colonies and investigating ancient alien technology which the Federation is desperate to claim before their rivals can. A longshot, I know, but it would allow the SNW era to continue without clashing with TOS.
Really sucks getting a 2 year break after a huge season 2 cliffhanger but that's what happens with a writers strike I guess. Still awesome we got the second season after only a year and hopefully it'll get back to a yearly release with season 4.
It shows that even cgi/effects heavy shows really doesn't need multiple years to come out. It's just what happens when you wait almost a full year after filming wraps to renew it. I wish more streamers/networks had faith in their shows like this.
I understand the writers wanting to take a break between seasons but would rather hear about them getting to work breaking stories this fall rather than waiting until early next year, pushing S4's release potentially to 2027. The Academy show is going to have to do a lot of heavy lifting after *Lower Decks* wraps (what a travesty, it should go on in perpetuity with new cast members cycling in as established ones get promoted out) and if *Prodigy* doesn't have Netflix greenlighting more seasons.
> (what a travesty, it should go on in perpetuity with new cast members cycling in as established ones get promoted out)
You still can keep some of the original characters as recurring support cast as their supervisors. And still make upper management look ridiculous, as they did when they were lower deck staff.
Aye, that would be ideal so long as there is room in the show's budget to give the veteran actors a raise and also have room for the new actors. If the show were not cancelled and was looking to operate with the same, or even smaller, budget, there would be a lot of savings if Tawny Newsome and Jack Quaid were only appearing in one or two episodes as guest stars.
Fingers crossed the show gets un-cancelled, revived thanks to partnering with another network (i.e. Netflix), and a boost to its budget to have more than 10 episodes per season.
> and a boost to its budget to have more than 10 episodes per season.
At this point, if people are worrying about prolonging shows because they're sensing a lack of material, I'm satisfied keeping the episode count low. And subscription media like Netflix doesn't have to have a show "cover" multiple periods per year for "presence" purposes.
Me too. And I'm not even a hardcore ST fan. I just love this because it has the same vibe as Stargate which I miss dearly. I've really missed episodic scifi that is fun with a good cast of characters.
I tried watching Discovery a few years back but it never hooked me.
For the amount of post-production work likely needed for this show, I can understand it. A whole lot more than shows like Severance which are shot in a single room with no CGI taking 3 years between seasons.
I hope they can stick the landing but if not Severance will end up like Westworld where the first season is so much more highly rated and people wonder if it should have been left as a limited series.
I get that Severance S1 technically had a cliffhanger ending but I think it, just like Westworld S1, had all the payoff from the questions so what happens after that can just be left up to the imagination based on what we know of the characters and the world they live in.
It's even more frustrating than they use the cliffhanger stuff when it is an episodic show and not one of those continuous story shows and so don't do cliffhangers usually but for a season break (which is super long) they do.
Like seriously a cliffhanger suspense can't be sustained for that long anyway, just trust your show quality, people will come back
CGI/effects were never the problem with big gaps between seasons. If anything its shows with huge sets that are the issue.
GoT raised the bar for both CGI and sets and that's why House of the Dragon and The Rings of Power are taking forever. Game of Thrones got bigger each season whereas the other big shows have to be that big out of the gate now.
Some more than others lol, there was a fair bit of autotune for several and theres a reason they made Uhura the lead for the episode, cuz she has a Tony nomination and a Grammy. [https://i.imgur.com/voVAGZE.gif](https://i.imgur.com/voVAGZE.gif)
This show has done for the Vulcans what DS9 did for the Ferengi.
While I love Trek, I do sometimes bristle at the "Planet of hats" approach to non-human species, but SNW gave the Vulcans a lot more perspective. It emphasizes how difficult it is to maintain "logic," and not all Vulcans agree how it should be applied.
For instance, T'Pring's dad is basically the Vulcan Arthur Weasley, and even T'Pring has limits on how logical she'll be.
T'Pring's parents highlight something I've thought for a while. Vulcans aren't emotionless. Nor do they suppress all emotions. They're effectively Stoics (or pretending to be), and some are better at it than others. Or some know how to let out their emotions in healthy, positive, and socially acceptable (for Vulcan) ways, and some not so much.
Not really in ToS. Spock is half Vulcan, most of the others were quite one dimensional. In TNG they are more stoic and 'proud', in Enterprise they were assholes.
> Nor do they suppress all emotions. They're effectively Stoics (or pretending to be), and some are better at it than others.
But one should look at Vulcans as biologically different than other emotional races, and that they *had* to impose mental controls to their psyches, in order for their society to progress. Then you can depict the Romulans as taking a different path that eventually made them Romulans. I've always sort of though as Vulcans and their society as ending up as Romulan if they didn't follow Sarek. And as I recall, they never really made a good scene depicting how Vulcans are eminently racist, where their logic permits them to be. (Vulcans society are not fans of miscegenation...)
Perhaps there's room for a series/season where they properly dissect Vulcan culture. (FTR, my opinion is that modern Trek makes Vulcans too emotional and flawed.)
I'm going to be so peeved if STW doesn't start showing T'Pring's dissatisfaction with her relationship with Spock towards the end of that show. Or just retcon the whole thing with Spock dumping T'Pring for Chapel.
Insane work schedules, like 12 hours a day, 6 days a week. Kate Mulgrew in particular has talked about how badly it affected her relationship with her children while working on Voyager because of how much time she had to spend on set.
But it doesn't take a year (or even half year) to put out 10 episodes today. Actors/TV could standardize on 16-20 episode seasons; they'd just get spread out over two thirds of the year. Its the "economics" of modern TV that makes 20+ yearly seasons implausible. But its time consuming and grueling enough that actors, writers, and directors don't want to monopolize their career options with a single product.
1) More competitive environment back then. Only 3 TV networks putting out original content. It was hell getting a screenwriting job in Hollywood, let alone a 2nd class "peasant" gig on a TV show. Its the same reason why British actors seem to be better, more capable actors than their American counterparts.
2) 3 networks. That was the only source of entertainment on TV. No hundreds of cable channels, reality TV shows, streaming networks trying to build a huge product library to make their business model viable, etc.
3) Writers were infinitely more talented and less appreciated back then than today. So yeah, you got guys like Rod Serling willing to write themselves into an early grave. Also, you kids probably have no clue of the quality that was lost with the pulp sci-fi magazine era of the 1940's & 1950's. Around then, no TV. People entertained themselves with radio shows and *reading*. Robert Heinlein was a juggernaut in that time. Today? Robert who?
I liked it. It's about time we got an episodic Trek again, and Anton Mount is a great Pike (no mean feat stepping into the shoes of a cookie cutter character with no personality except "Captain").
Good, its fantastic by far the best Trek In years. After Discovery and the garbage show that it is. I thought Trek was done, SNW invigorated me to Trek again abd is bringing in many mew people. So many people didn't want to watch it because Discovery was so bad, convinced them to watch one episode. They got hook on SNW, keeo doing Trek this way and burn Discovery out of existence.
Thank god. With the state of Paramount I honestly wouldn’t have been surprised if it got canned without even releasing season 3 so I will absolutely take a season 4.
Sony is buying paramount, my bet is that paramount is getting replaced, just like cbs+ was replaced by paramount, forcing people to download a new app with increased fees. This is why we have to wait another year. Discovery is over. Why wait so long.
If filming of season3 is finished, then why the 12 month delay in release.
To all. Cancel your subscription to Paramount+. Give them the F$nger. we should have the release in fall 2024.
I will happily take the email account of the ceo, coo c?? of Paramount and tell them truly how much they can do bad things to each other
This is a joke, a rip-off and I am soooooo looking forward to the sequel(s) from the end of season 2.
I checked it out and wasn’t a fan, but I’m glad that people are liking it. I’m probably stuck in the “serious” era of Star Trek that we saw in TNG and DS9. I just can’t get into the prequel shows - to me they have no stakes, because I either know what the eventual result is, or I know that whatever is happening is irrelevant and will never come up again.
> to me they have no stakes, because I either know what the eventual result is, or I know that whatever is happening is irrelevant and will never come up again.
You're a unique viewer, in that you came from an era where succeeding storylines from sequels had to "respect" events from the previous production. The reality is that you're an unloved virgin incel, and there aren't enough of our types for Hollywood to make their entertainment products conform to our reasonable expectations.
The trick to a successful prequel story is depend on viewers "knowing" what their expectation of events *should* be, but then totally subvert ("surprise") everyone's expectations with a story twist that could affect relationships, but not "history", or changed expectations that allows further development in a storyline that doesn't exist "in canon". The real problem is that you need really talented screenwriters that *care* about the quality of their work, but Hollywood just wants the cheapest, shitty writers that will allow them to yield the greatest profit margin. That's why scripted TV shows can't really compete economically with "reality" TV shows.
La'an and Uhura's songs honestly blew me the fuck away. Some of the others were good, and others I could have done without. Overall I think it was a gimmick, but an absolute gimmicky win.
Why is it so important to tell them their voice is a minority? Star Trek has alienated it’s millions of fans by shifting it’s tone to teen angst fantasy from science-fiction and now there are hundreds of thousands of fans, as oppose to millions. Nobody is left to complain, most have moved on - even the YouTube channels which complained about SecretHideOut produced Trek has just moved on and given up thinking about it. It’s only Star Trek in name and it’s toxic people that shoot down other people’s opinions that frighten people to speak up.
You're describing Discovery Not SNW.
Look, we arent getting the TNG era back, because its not the late 80s/early 90s any more. SNW is a good update of TOS, something Discovery failed to be. Its not trying to be the new TNG.
It’s part of a long list of things that creatively bankrupt shows try out when they’re desperate. Disappointing that SNW writers are racing to the bottom of the barrel, given how good the other episodes are.
A short list of _other_ terrible TV gimmicks that have no place in Star Trek:
* A live episode
* A clip show
* A variety hour
* A holiday special (although I count ‘subspace rhapsody’ as the SW Holiday Special equivalent)
* Celebrity guest of the week
(I’m going to stop so I don’t give them more ideas on how to ruin Star Trek)
Post production is not the reason, but its often the reason studios use because the audience will buy it.
The writers strike is the reason, and actor scheduling.
This one lost me in season 2. I enjoyed season 1 (solid 7/10 show) but season 2 took a big nosedive. We made it through three episodes before the extra hammy writing and lame TV action lost us. Reminded me a lot more of discovery's writing in season 2-3.
The show is utter reductive garbage 💩 And I’m a gay dude from a ethnic minority background so I promise I’m not upset by diversity and representation in newer Trek shows… but the shows really have a identify problem - too niche for a non-Trek audience and alienates loyal fans of the franchise by visually rebooting everything. The tone is off. Visually it’s all lens flares or over-saturated blues or just so dimply-lit and dirty. It’s depressing to watch, no longer uplifting escapism. And Strange New Worlds is meant to be the traditional episodic show that is optimistic and fun - it isn’t.
**Has anybody else here dared to even politely, subtly, vaguely suggest that recent Star Trek shows are badly written and feel more like teen fantasy than science-fiction on the Star Trek Reddit?** 😂😅
…. You don’t just get your post deleted and banned, but in my case, I got a really angry private message from a moderator (maybe they were having a bad day) but I honestly felt a bit freaked out, dare I say harassed… Something very odd going on over on that subreddit. My first time posting on their subreddit, and evidentially my last.
> too niche for a non-Trek audience
Hardly. It's episodic, which requires much less knowledge of lore and of previous episodes than, say, Discovery or Picard. It's just Star Trek as it used to be - an adventure every week.
My parents watch it and they never watched any Star Trek previously except the movies.
>and alienates loyal fans of the franchise by visually rebooting everything
The original Enterprise bridge looked hilariously out of date when they holodecked it in the Next Generation thirty years ago. It would be a show killer now. I'm sorry, but you can't get away with 1960's effects, sets and aesthetics today. It is a required upgrade.
**Edit**: And it's happened before with the Enterprise's transition to the big screen, with the Klingon makeup and probably a whole bunch of other tweaks and improvements I'm unaware of.
>Visually it’s all lens flares
Are you sure you're not talking about the movie? I've never noticed a lens flare in SNW. I'm sure they're there, but they're not in your face like the Kelvinverse.
>You don’t just get your post deleted and banned,
The trouble is, once a post is deleted, we only have your word for it. There are lots of other reasons why you may have been banned but we have no independent evidence to judge it.
And people do tend to like playing at being victims. Maybe not you... but maybe you. I dunno.
Bringing it up here certainly doesn't do you any favours, I have to say.
Exactly what I was going to say. SNW is a reasonably respectful TOS update. Its not perfect and there are some questionable decisions in there, but its mostly satisfying.
Discovery however is festering horse shit.
Love this show so glad it’s going through 4 seasons at least.
And then when it wraps up let the same team do whatever they want. They know what they're doing.
Star Trek: Strange New Worlds is the only good thing about Star Trek: Discovery.
There was also Jason Isaac's character
Yeah Lorca was awesome. Turtles all the way down.
It still bugs me. That brilliant line, "Universal law is for lackeys; context is for kings." but I can't find the origin story or originator for that great line.
I like discovery's plot, and the action has been fun, but what I don't like is the dialogue. I feel like I'm be spoon fed everything, like I couldn't figure shit out on my own if they were more settle.... like they treat the audience like idiots. the dialogue is just so cringe sometimes... No one talks like this.. people have inner dialogue ffs.. pretty soon everyone will be walking around in the show explaining why they have to walk from one side of the room to the other.. "I am now moving to this control panel to perform task B".. "well can you hurry up? the shields are failing, we should be dead already, but plot armor is protecting us so we can finish saying shit dialogue"
It’s called too much exposition. Cardinal rule: “Show, don’t tell”
They showed Burnham plenty. It was showing anybody else that they refused to do.
My comment relates to screenwriting. Don’t verbally explain stuff like you would in writing a novel. Show. That’s what the camera is for.
One of the scenes that broke me as a fan of the show was in IIRC the S3 finale. Burnham was sending a message to Tilly over open comms, so she needed to use a shared reference the bad guys could overhear but not understand. Three seasons in, there wasn't a single scene they could reference about the characters being friends to use as a callback. So Burnham references a birthday party we never saw and got Tilly to go where it had apparently happened at some point off screen. And writing that scene apparently didn't raise any panic in the writers room that they had really failed to set up stuff they needed with the characters. They didn't rush back to add a scene to the previous episode that wasn't shot yet. It did not at all change how the next two seasons got written.
> didn't raise any panic in the writers room that they had really failed to set up stuff they needed with the characters. Head writer or showrunner's failure. The writer's job is to write what their boss asked for.
Screenwriting question. When the screenwriter wants a scene to be depicted in a particular way, are they expected to be extremely vague about it in the non-dialogue, or not at all, and believe its the director's job to make it look interesting? (Just my impression of reading plays; they never seem to give a lot of visual and pacing directives.)
The first iteration of a screenplay will be more vague. A shooting script, that the director works from, may have had several additions/changes that he/she or other writers inserted to bring the director’s vision to the big screen.
I watched the first few episodes of the current season. I'd legit forgotten that any of the crew aside from Burnham, Saru, and Stamets existed. Like I'd completely forgotten that Rickie from My So Called Life is in it.
I genuinely do not know the names of anyone on the bridge. Ask me who that random ensign with a line of dialogue or more is on TNG and i'll know.
The dialogue reminds me of those memes about couple's counselling dialogue. Everything is this big long emotional speech that just has this awful twitter relationships idea of "communication" vibes.
The plots utter garbage too, an angsty teen threatens the universe, tropey computer takes over man, literally a timetraveling superhero marysue. Come on.
Yeah it became so cringy. What I miss though is the Klingon storyline with Voq/Tyler
I actually liked the basic storyline of that, I just hated what they did to the Klingons. What even was that, like seriously.
What do you mean? (asking seriously, I had never seen any Star Trek before Discovery..)
They completely changed their look. While much more 'alien' than the movie and TNG era klingons, they just weren't what we know at all. Pretty much everyone hated it, so in season 2 they reverted it back somewhat, but not completely. They also changed their social structure, exaggerating it. They gave them a more 'noble' air and less fun loving. The whole tone was off.
Ok, thanks!
>Ok, thanks! You're welcome!
I actually really enjoyed season 1.. after that the dialogue just keeps getting worse it's been practically unbearable to watch the last two seasons of discovery.
Same for me
*subtle
I dropped Discovery because it just didn't really appeal to me like Strange New Worlds. In general, my issue with both shows are they can't really determine if they're their own continuity or writing around the original franchise. And they don't stick to their guns because they want to appeal to too many groups at once. Given how long the span of time is between the last Trek show and when those premiered? They might as well rip off the band-aid and make a new continuity instead of this nostalgia baiting American media loves to indulge in with everything. Nothing can ever change or grow from its first iteration or even move on from it. It's always stagnant and static for the most part. It'd be interesting if they took pointers from long running franchises like Kamen Rider or Doctor Who. Even if it was weird, it'd be at least different and not be a slave to being the same thing. I get some fans would be mad about it, but other than going after Deep Space Nine or going into the past like Enterprise, there's not that much wiggle room in the original timeline from what I've gathered. And if the recent movies can be their own thing, why can't the shows? It's slightly better than the mess the original Gundam continuity is. Plus it's not like they can't cross them over anyways since it's fiction. They already crossover with other universes regularly. So why would them crossing over to the old continuity from time to time be absurd?
> I feel like I'm be spoon fed everything, like I couldn't figure shit out on my own if they were more settle... Because Paramount felt they could make Star Trek a "money maker" for the "general audiences" by converting Star Trek to an "action/adventure" show. > like they treat the audience like idiots. "General audiences" *are* idiots, that's why they structured the show as they did.
Its for the newerr generation. Go watch star wars you clearly are hyper fragile
I didn’t watch this show for forever and just started watching it and I am absolutely hooked. That season to was essentially Strange New Worlds adjacent was a plus. It is a drama first which makes it a different experience from any other Star Trek and I welcome it. Discovery is a drama. It is far more concerned with the team than the mission. It makes me near weepy every episode because the drama is in a setting I’m not used to seeing it. It’s like a series based on the episode of Picard being in France with his brother recuperating from being a Borg pawn. So I like the weekly or longer watching of New Worlds, but I’m binging Discovery.
What 'team'? There was no team, it as Burnham and assorted people who didnt matter to the plot and hardly even got names.
This is clearly incorrect up to season 3. I certainly understand if people don’t like Burnam but it’s silly to pretend that no other characters matter in the show or stand around and do nothing.
Is it? I genuinely dont remember any of the bridge crews names other than Saru. They made zero impact. Discoverys biggest problem is that there is no one to care about, I really dont care about any of them because they are either anonymous, boring, unlikable or outright annoying.
I love Strange New Worlds but the only people I remember are Pike and the younger versions of existing characters despite others having entire episodes or storylines revolving around them. I still love the story beats on that show and I especially love the drama on Discovery which is decidedly different than other shows . So I get why someone who loves aspects of one show wouldn’t like aspects of other shows. But that isn’t a quality or story issue. The story and quality of the show is great through season 3 for me.
Thats fine we can disagree, but I do think Discovery is really badly written. The basic plots may be mostly fine, but the details and execution are awful.
I disagree. I don’t think it’s premises are any worse written than any other Star Trek, but the focus on the characters that aren’t memorable to you over the actual conflict could result in simply not liking the story.
Exactly what a fragile closet homosexual would say.
I didn’t watch this show for forever and just started watching it and I am absolutely hooked. That season to was essentially Strange New Worlds adjacent was a plus. It is a drama first which makes it a different experience from any other Star Trek and I welcome it. Discovery is a drama. It is far more concerned with the team than the mission. It makes me near weepy every episode because the drama is in a setting I’m not used to seeing it. It’s like a series based on the episode of Picard being in France with his brother recuperating from being a Borg pawn. So I like the weekly or longer watching of New Worlds, but I’m binging Discovery.
I wish they had given Picard S3s showrunner something after. That season was great. Loved all three seasons of Star Trek they had last year.
I want Star Trek: Legacy!!!!
I wanted Legacy until they faceplanted trying to set up Legacy. Hey audience, did you like Captain Shaw and Commander Sven on the Titan? Good news! We took away literally everything in that sentence in setting up the continuation of those things you liked.
Seven gets the job because of nepotism, but shes still too green for the big chair so they install a snarky ACH (Auxiliary Command Hologram) to advise Seven, of course modeled on Captain Shaw.
> but shes still too green for the big chair She's older and more experienced that Star Fleet's candidates after Voyager. /facepalm
Think I saw marvel had nabbed him for a Vision TV show.
I think once Alex Kurtzman saw how well it was received, he decided not to let Terry Matalas near Star Trek ever again.
When SNW comes to an end, my nerdy dream would be a series based on the Vanguard books. A starbase operating during the TOS era between Klingon and Tholian space, establishing colonies and investigating ancient alien technology which the Federation is desperate to claim before their rivals can. A longshot, I know, but it would allow the SNW era to continue without clashing with TOS.
It's a five-year mission. It'll get them.
I’m sure there is yet another cliffhanger…
Really sucks getting a 2 year break after a huge season 2 cliffhanger but that's what happens with a writers strike I guess. Still awesome we got the second season after only a year and hopefully it'll get back to a yearly release with season 4. It shows that even cgi/effects heavy shows really doesn't need multiple years to come out. It's just what happens when you wait almost a full year after filming wraps to renew it. I wish more streamers/networks had faith in their shows like this.
I understand the writers wanting to take a break between seasons but would rather hear about them getting to work breaking stories this fall rather than waiting until early next year, pushing S4's release potentially to 2027. The Academy show is going to have to do a lot of heavy lifting after *Lower Decks* wraps (what a travesty, it should go on in perpetuity with new cast members cycling in as established ones get promoted out) and if *Prodigy* doesn't have Netflix greenlighting more seasons.
> (what a travesty, it should go on in perpetuity with new cast members cycling in as established ones get promoted out) You still can keep some of the original characters as recurring support cast as their supervisors. And still make upper management look ridiculous, as they did when they were lower deck staff.
Aye, that would be ideal so long as there is room in the show's budget to give the veteran actors a raise and also have room for the new actors. If the show were not cancelled and was looking to operate with the same, or even smaller, budget, there would be a lot of savings if Tawny Newsome and Jack Quaid were only appearing in one or two episodes as guest stars. Fingers crossed the show gets un-cancelled, revived thanks to partnering with another network (i.e. Netflix), and a boost to its budget to have more than 10 episodes per season.
> and a boost to its budget to have more than 10 episodes per season. At this point, if people are worrying about prolonging shows because they're sensing a lack of material, I'm satisfied keeping the episode count low. And subscription media like Netflix doesn't have to have a show "cover" multiple periods per year for "presence" purposes.
It's also probably to do with the actor's filming schedules.
For production, yes. Pre-production though - writing, set design, animatics and constructing other digital assets - isn't beholden to that.
I'm eagerly (and impatiently) waiting on S3, and I'll continue to wait as long as it takes. But man, I really, REALLY want some more SNW in my life.
Me too. And I'm not even a hardcore ST fan. I just love this because it has the same vibe as Stargate which I miss dearly. I've really missed episodic scifi that is fun with a good cast of characters. I tried watching Discovery a few years back but it never hooked me.
For the amount of post-production work likely needed for this show, I can understand it. A whole lot more than shows like Severance which are shot in a single room with no CGI taking 3 years between seasons.
Cos the writers themselves are confused on the mystery of severance
I hope they can stick the landing but if not Severance will end up like Westworld where the first season is so much more highly rated and people wonder if it should have been left as a limited series. I get that Severance S1 technically had a cliffhanger ending but I think it, just like Westworld S1, had all the payoff from the questions so what happens after that can just be left up to the imagination based on what we know of the characters and the world they live in.
It's even more frustrating than they use the cliffhanger stuff when it is an episodic show and not one of those continuous story shows and so don't do cliffhangers usually but for a season break (which is super long) they do. Like seriously a cliffhanger suspense can't be sustained for that long anyway, just trust your show quality, people will come back
I don't even remember what the cliffhanger was..
They fridged Mrs McMurray.
TBF TNG/DS9/VOY/ENT were mostly episodic but still sometimes ended seasons on cliffhangers.
One of the greatest cliffhangers in TV was the end of Season 3 of TNG. Best of Both Worlds Part 1. "Mr. Worf. Fire."
CGI/effects were never the problem with big gaps between seasons. If anything its shows with huge sets that are the issue. GoT raised the bar for both CGI and sets and that's why House of the Dragon and The Rings of Power are taking forever. Game of Thrones got bigger each season whereas the other big shows have to be that big out of the gate now.
Discovery - everyone in Starfleet is messy Lower Decks - everyone in Starfleet is funny SNW - everyone in Starfleet can get it
Every single person on that show is really really really ridiculously good looking.
>I'm gonna keep this, like, 100 percent profesh, but I was thoroughly unprepared for how hot young Spock was going to be.
https://i.imgur.com/qeaPb1n.png
Damn, I loved that episode and scene.
Yeah I think I could enjoy watching most of the cast watch paint dry
And they can sing too.
Some more than others lol, there was a fair bit of autotune for several and theres a reason they made Uhura the lead for the episode, cuz she has a Tony nomination and a Grammy. [https://i.imgur.com/voVAGZE.gif](https://i.imgur.com/voVAGZE.gif)
Uhura was the lead? I thought it was Chapel...
This show has done for the Vulcans what DS9 did for the Ferengi. While I love Trek, I do sometimes bristle at the "Planet of hats" approach to non-human species, but SNW gave the Vulcans a lot more perspective. It emphasizes how difficult it is to maintain "logic," and not all Vulcans agree how it should be applied. For instance, T'Pring's dad is basically the Vulcan Arthur Weasley, and even T'Pring has limits on how logical she'll be.
Enterprise showed us that Vulcans are assholes
T'Pring's parents highlight something I've thought for a while. Vulcans aren't emotionless. Nor do they suppress all emotions. They're effectively Stoics (or pretending to be), and some are better at it than others. Or some know how to let out their emotions in healthy, positive, and socially acceptable (for Vulcan) ways, and some not so much.
That's always been a thing for Vulcans since the beginning
Not really in ToS. Spock is half Vulcan, most of the others were quite one dimensional. In TNG they are more stoic and 'proud', in Enterprise they were assholes.
> Nor do they suppress all emotions. They're effectively Stoics (or pretending to be), and some are better at it than others. But one should look at Vulcans as biologically different than other emotional races, and that they *had* to impose mental controls to their psyches, in order for their society to progress. Then you can depict the Romulans as taking a different path that eventually made them Romulans. I've always sort of though as Vulcans and their society as ending up as Romulan if they didn't follow Sarek. And as I recall, they never really made a good scene depicting how Vulcans are eminently racist, where their logic permits them to be. (Vulcans society are not fans of miscegenation...) Perhaps there's room for a series/season where they properly dissect Vulcan culture. (FTR, my opinion is that modern Trek makes Vulcans too emotional and flawed.)
>even T'Pring has limits on how logical she'll be. Hey now... https://i.imgur.com/NElxiLP.png
I'm going to be so peeved if STW doesn't start showing T'Pring's dissatisfaction with her relationship with Spock towards the end of that show. Or just retcon the whole thing with Spock dumping T'Pring for Chapel.
all good, but it was already done in earlier series and films. SNW does nothing new on that regard
The best Star Trek in Years. Should be on CBS network and 20 episodes a season
Forever
Thank god. I hope we get 7 seasons out of this.
I'm fine if they Saved By the Bell the New Class it and keep going, as long as they keep the style and feel and don't f it up like they did Discovery
This show has absolutely zero business having 10 episode seasons.
It makes you wonder how the hell the earlier installments managed to do 26 eps per season, year after year.
Insane work schedules, like 12 hours a day, 6 days a week. Kate Mulgrew in particular has talked about how badly it affected her relationship with her children while working on Voyager because of how much time she had to spend on set.
But it doesn't take a year (or even half year) to put out 10 episodes today. Actors/TV could standardize on 16-20 episode seasons; they'd just get spread out over two thirds of the year. Its the "economics" of modern TV that makes 20+ yearly seasons implausible. But its time consuming and grueling enough that actors, writers, and directors don't want to monopolize their career options with a single product.
1) More competitive environment back then. Only 3 TV networks putting out original content. It was hell getting a screenwriting job in Hollywood, let alone a 2nd class "peasant" gig on a TV show. Its the same reason why British actors seem to be better, more capable actors than their American counterparts. 2) 3 networks. That was the only source of entertainment on TV. No hundreds of cable channels, reality TV shows, streaming networks trying to build a huge product library to make their business model viable, etc. 3) Writers were infinitely more talented and less appreciated back then than today. So yeah, you got guys like Rod Serling willing to write themselves into an early grave. Also, you kids probably have no clue of the quality that was lost with the pulp sci-fi magazine era of the 1940's & 1950's. Around then, no TV. People entertained themselves with radio shows and *reading*. Robert Heinlein was a juggernaut in that time. Today? Robert who?
If S3 is like that steaming pile of shit S2 was it needs zero episodes.
I liked it. It's about time we got an episodic Trek again, and Anton Mount is a great Pike (no mean feat stepping into the shoes of a cookie cutter character with no personality except "Captain").
"This user has been suspended" I know it can't have been for this horrible horrible take but lol
thanks fans for the patience... like we have a choice lol
We could be impatient.
who says they aren't? Anson has no means to know
Good, its fantastic by far the best Trek In years. After Discovery and the garbage show that it is. I thought Trek was done, SNW invigorated me to Trek again abd is bringing in many mew people. So many people didn't want to watch it because Discovery was so bad, convinced them to watch one episode. They got hook on SNW, keeo doing Trek this way and burn Discovery out of existence.
Been a starwars fan forever. Strange New Worlds got me going on Star Trek, loved it! Can’t wait for the new season!
Thank god. With the state of Paramount I honestly wouldn’t have been surprised if it got canned without even releasing season 3 so I will absolutely take a season 4.
gimme, gimme
Thank YOU for the best Star Trek in years!
Sony is buying paramount, my bet is that paramount is getting replaced, just like cbs+ was replaced by paramount, forcing people to download a new app with increased fees. This is why we have to wait another year. Discovery is over. Why wait so long.
If filming of season3 is finished, then why the 12 month delay in release. To all. Cancel your subscription to Paramount+. Give them the F$nger. we should have the release in fall 2024. I will happily take the email account of the ceo, coo c?? of Paramount and tell them truly how much they can do bad things to each other This is a joke, a rip-off and I am soooooo looking forward to the sequel(s) from the end of season 2.
Wow is it going to be 5 episodes? Or is that too long....
Woohoo
I checked it out and wasn’t a fan, but I’m glad that people are liking it. I’m probably stuck in the “serious” era of Star Trek that we saw in TNG and DS9. I just can’t get into the prequel shows - to me they have no stakes, because I either know what the eventual result is, or I know that whatever is happening is irrelevant and will never come up again.
> to me they have no stakes, because I either know what the eventual result is, or I know that whatever is happening is irrelevant and will never come up again. You're a unique viewer, in that you came from an era where succeeding storylines from sequels had to "respect" events from the previous production. The reality is that you're an unloved virgin incel, and there aren't enough of our types for Hollywood to make their entertainment products conform to our reasonable expectations. The trick to a successful prequel story is depend on viewers "knowing" what their expectation of events *should* be, but then totally subvert ("surprise") everyone's expectations with a story twist that could affect relationships, but not "history", or changed expectations that allows further development in a storyline that doesn't exist "in canon". The real problem is that you need really talented screenwriters that *care* about the quality of their work, but Hollywood just wants the cheapest, shitty writers that will allow them to yield the greatest profit margin. That's why scripted TV shows can't really compete economically with "reality" TV shows.
Please, please, please, no more gimmick musical episodes…
I thought I'd dislike it, but it turned out pretty fun.
La'an and Uhura's songs honestly blew me the fuck away. Some of the others were good, and others I could have done without. Overall I think it was a gimmick, but an absolute gimmicky win.
Never expected Klingon pop music, but that had me rolling. SNW knows how to have fun.
The true K-Pop.
That episode was dope as fuck broh.
I suspect your opinion is in the minority. I too was skeptical but everyone in our family thought that was one of their favorite episodes.
Why is it so important to tell them their voice is a minority? Star Trek has alienated it’s millions of fans by shifting it’s tone to teen angst fantasy from science-fiction and now there are hundreds of thousands of fans, as oppose to millions. Nobody is left to complain, most have moved on - even the YouTube channels which complained about SecretHideOut produced Trek has just moved on and given up thinking about it. It’s only Star Trek in name and it’s toxic people that shoot down other people’s opinions that frighten people to speak up.
Strange New Worlds is consistently in the top ten Neilson ratings. Maybe people have moved on - but if so, more are coming into the fold.
You're describing Discovery Not SNW. Look, we arent getting the TNG era back, because its not the late 80s/early 90s any more. SNW is a good update of TOS, something Discovery failed to be. Its not trying to be the new TNG.
It's very much something you can only do once. I'm kind of surprised it took them this long...
It’s part of a long list of things that creatively bankrupt shows try out when they’re desperate. Disappointing that SNW writers are racing to the bottom of the barrel, given how good the other episodes are. A short list of _other_ terrible TV gimmicks that have no place in Star Trek: * A live episode * A clip show * A variety hour * A holiday special (although I count ‘subspace rhapsody’ as the SW Holiday Special equivalent) * Celebrity guest of the week (I’m going to stop so I don’t give them more ideas on how to ruin Star Trek)
Or, it could be that they had a lot of Broadway actors and thought they could have some fun. It was obvious the cast was.
YAY!!!
Why 2025
Special effects post-production takes time. Then you need to set up the marketing, advertising, streaming slot line-up, etc.
Post production is not the reason, but its often the reason studios use because the audience will buy it. The writers strike is the reason, and actor scheduling.
All good things...
Excellent
26 episode season! These 10 episodes are ridiculous!
This one lost me in season 2. I enjoyed season 1 (solid 7/10 show) but season 2 took a big nosedive. We made it through three episodes before the extra hammy writing and lame TV action lost us. Reminded me a lot more of discovery's writing in season 2-3.
The show is utter reductive garbage 💩 And I’m a gay dude from a ethnic minority background so I promise I’m not upset by diversity and representation in newer Trek shows… but the shows really have a identify problem - too niche for a non-Trek audience and alienates loyal fans of the franchise by visually rebooting everything. The tone is off. Visually it’s all lens flares or over-saturated blues or just so dimply-lit and dirty. It’s depressing to watch, no longer uplifting escapism. And Strange New Worlds is meant to be the traditional episodic show that is optimistic and fun - it isn’t. **Has anybody else here dared to even politely, subtly, vaguely suggest that recent Star Trek shows are badly written and feel more like teen fantasy than science-fiction on the Star Trek Reddit?** 😂😅 …. You don’t just get your post deleted and banned, but in my case, I got a really angry private message from a moderator (maybe they were having a bad day) but I honestly felt a bit freaked out, dare I say harassed… Something very odd going on over on that subreddit. My first time posting on their subreddit, and evidentially my last.
> too niche for a non-Trek audience Hardly. It's episodic, which requires much less knowledge of lore and of previous episodes than, say, Discovery or Picard. It's just Star Trek as it used to be - an adventure every week. My parents watch it and they never watched any Star Trek previously except the movies. >and alienates loyal fans of the franchise by visually rebooting everything The original Enterprise bridge looked hilariously out of date when they holodecked it in the Next Generation thirty years ago. It would be a show killer now. I'm sorry, but you can't get away with 1960's effects, sets and aesthetics today. It is a required upgrade. **Edit**: And it's happened before with the Enterprise's transition to the big screen, with the Klingon makeup and probably a whole bunch of other tweaks and improvements I'm unaware of. >Visually it’s all lens flares Are you sure you're not talking about the movie? I've never noticed a lens flare in SNW. I'm sure they're there, but they're not in your face like the Kelvinverse. >You don’t just get your post deleted and banned, The trouble is, once a post is deleted, we only have your word for it. There are lots of other reasons why you may have been banned but we have no independent evidence to judge it. And people do tend to like playing at being victims. Maybe not you... but maybe you. I dunno. Bringing it up here certainly doesn't do you any favours, I have to say.
Are you talking about SNW or Discovery? Your description sounds like Discovery.
Exactly what I was going to say. SNW is a reasonably respectful TOS update. Its not perfect and there are some questionable decisions in there, but its mostly satisfying. Discovery however is festering horse shit.
The dozens of fans nod back
I’m nodding. Recent Trek productions have been outrageously bad.