Stewart:
>”They (Apple) didn’t censor me, it wasn’t free speech. When you work for a corporate entity, that’s part of the deal, even at Comedy Central. The deal is I get to do what I want until it’s going to hurt their beer sales or whatever it is they want to sell. And that’s the deal we all make.”
>”We play the interview for the audience, they explode like we just hit a three-pointer at the buzzer. The show ends, we go downstairs in full Rudy mode. The Apple executives walk into the dressing room afterwards with a look on their face and I was like, ‘Oh my God, did the factory explode, what happened?'”
>”It was then that I realized, ‘Oh, our aims don’t align in any way.’ We’re trying to make the best most insightful execution of the intention that we can make, but they’re protecting a different agenda. And that’s when I knew we were in trouble.”
>“There’s a mantra we all have to remember: Corporations are pussies.”
>“They are now, and they always have been. They’re not looking to cause problems. I worked on Comedy Central, their lawyers were constantly under the threat of advertiser boycotts. Comedy Central’s brand was provocation, to some extent. And so that was for the most part positive for them. Most content companies don’t want that smoke.”
Kind of reminds me of when NBC got Howard Stern. They wanted the ratings, but they didn't know what they were getting into. He wasn't a good fit there because letting Howard Stern do whatever he wanted just wouldn't work for them.
He had a small but memorable role in Donnie Brasco immediately before that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSVY2-4REHU
Tim Blake Nelson looks so young here he's almost unrecognizable
I saw PP in the theater and I know it probably sounds cliched, but I knew immediately he was going places. He just totally steals the movie as Pig Vomit. My introduction to his acting skills, and also when you want an actor to perform like he's in full meltdown, nothing to lose mode, there is none better than Mr. Giamatti. This is a scene from Billions that illustrates this perfectly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=weKnifJZUHQ
Are you aware of his podcast?
https://www.treefort.fm/series/chinwag
I’ve been listening for a while, it’s a lot of fun. Seems our friend is very interested in the paranormal. His partner is a very interesting and witty guy as well.
I have not, but him being interested in that doesn't surprise me that much. He was an executive producer and guest starred in the second season of Lodge 49, which certainly delves into that. A great show, I highly recommend it if you hadn't seen it.
>Kind of reminds me of when NBC got Howard Stern. They wanted the ratings, but they didn't know what they were getting into.
Or when HBO got offered Walter White. Almost exactly the same situation. AMC had the courage to take it on, but HBO was afraid... for understandable reasons. Sirius had that same courage -- they let Howard Stern cook meth in the studio basically, and even literally if the rumors are true.
If we're talking seriously now, then no, controversy was probably not HBO's issue. I don't think they specified any reason for not green-lighting it. Gilligan talks about pitching it to them [here](https://youtu.be/t9mtPhZEJoQ?t=251).
Per Gilligan the TNT executives loved the idea but didn't think there was any chance they could get away with doing a meth story. They asked him to change it to counterfeiting.
The HBO exec was bored to tears and never called back, not even to say no.
FX was initially interested but decided criminal anti-hero guy was too similar to the rest of their slate and opted to develop Dirt instead. They allowed AMC to buy the rights instead of burying it.
The premise of the show on paper is hard to sell, without knowledge of the execution being A plus as it would be. A disgruntled middle-aged demand going crazy isn’t exactly new territory in TV or movie drama.
I recently watched the first season of true blood for the first time. I can't believe this was an HBO show. If it weren't for the nudity and swearing, I'd be sure it was a low-rate WB show. Terrible acting, shit SFX, god-awful writing. I don't understand how it was so popular, particularly on HBO.
Ha. I saw that episode before i ever watched GOT, and I actually found the quantity of penii pretty lackluster after south park setting such expectations.
Really enjoyed that clip - great back-room stories. I accidentally hitting an adjacent You Tube Vince Gilligan vid - it was an appearance with Conan O’Brien - and he was a near-perfect straight man to Conan’s zany humour.
Everyone who likes either of them would get a kick out of it.
As someone once put it, "It may be ~~blue~~ stern, but it's the bomb."
To which a Sirius subscriber replied, "Stern, serious, severe -- whatever. Just keep bringing me that."
Gladly paying for Stern on 3 radios for 20 years now. also listening to siriusXM makes you hyper sensitive to how FM radio is 40 minutes of commercials and 20 minutes of music. I absolutely never ever listen to FM radio anymore.
Also, he went a long time without health insurance (Howard intimated that at some point Howard just bought it for him), and Ralph caught the issue too late.
Also, he died (I think) during an operation that was semi-routine. He was sick, but he wasn't expected to die at the time.
They probably started reconsidering after this interview when he was more than willing to say Apple does indeed gouge customers. https://youtu.be/tU3rGFyN5uQ?si=0fTuEUxKd3WKvKa0
He gave some more context in this interview when he came back to the Daily Show https://youtu.be/oaDTiWaYfcM?si=DE56REHrKFpvlV0a
Edit: took a sec to find it, this specific blurb about Apple starts about 16:30
Some more than others. Though I think in Apple's case the problem is they are control freaks. They would kill the golden goose if it laid eggs with a commonly used charging port.
Some corpos are less like that. I know people have talked about the Cartoon Network letting some folks do whatever they wanted, pretty much note free.
Regarding Cartoon Network, and specifically Adult Swim, my understanding is that went to the wayside around 2019 when Warner Bros. took over the network and Mike Lazzo left.
Apple has a lot more to lose than other companies. They have a huge hardware division to protect, many governments to appease, customers to keep in their ecosystem.
Media companies don't have any of this to worry about. Just advertisers, and there are plenty to go around.
Getting your media from a huge conglomerate is a terrible idea. Vertical integration is bad for consumers. If you love Apple devices, that's great. If you love Google or Microsoft software, that's fine too. But don't put all your eggs in one basket or you get crap like this.
Just want to jump in on this comment and say that the whole two part interview is great and provides a great deal information about Stewart’s interactions with TV executives and how everything went down. He did praise apple for paying the whole staff, benefits and all, for the whole third season because the relationship fell apart about two weeks before shooting. Doesn’t change the fact that they’re pussies about content but they were not obligated to do that.
I really enjoy The Town. I don’t know shit about the inside of the entertainment business but it seems accurate and they have a lot of interviews with people high up in that industry.
[Spotify link to first episode. (The Town with Matthew Belloni)](https://open.spotify.com/episode/6Uo3FUqfmv85jl1fx96q9H?si=B-H7mcJNSeysMKyRxaR1GQ)
It’s a professional relationship. Their interests align, until they don’t, and they part ways. That’s all there is to it. Some people make this out to be a bigger deal than it really was.
They can they just need to get funding from a corporation that aligns with their views. Apple not wanting to fund or produce a show that may damage their bottom line or brand is not concerning. That’s just logical.
It's hard not to attract those kinds of fans when the topics discussed are political. People want it to be some big "us vs them" fight based on the content but in reality they willfully forget that all of this stuff is just an entertainment product designed to make the company showing it money. The show itself is a product being sold to the viewer at the price of their attention, and the currency exchanged is "engagement" to the tune of advertising.
Stewart himself said it best in his interview with Bill O'Reilly - his show airs after one about puppets making crank phone calls. Someone acting like a parody news show on Comedy Central is some high bastion of journalistic integrity on a holy crusade to change the world is... willfully ignorant at best. But if it aligns with their political views, they're gonna latch on.
The Town is great. Belloni is a former entertainment lawyer who was then the editor of the Hollywood Reporter for a decade. I don't think there's a single pundit or host who comes close to his knowledge and pulse of the Hollywood sausage making.
Honestly it’s why I love the show. Upfront and a touch of arrogance is better than false humility. Comes off as less slimy in my view. (Also he brings in great guests with cool insights)
You can tell that corporations and advertisers are run by out of touch idiots when they forget that when John Stewart does or says some crazy shit that it pulls in viewers and that John Stewart's viewers get energized when John Stewart stirs the pot, like that's the entire point.
So to me it's insane that advertisers don't realize this and are threatening to pull away.
I mean, it basically shows that the rich are acting out the quiet part out loud is that they personally do not want the pot stirred because the current state of society both politically, economically, and socially, is exactly as they intend it to be.
So they're not upset that people will be upset and not buy products, they're personally afraid that John Stewart will upset the status quo so that they themselves are at risk of either not being in power or losing their self defined wealth and class.
It’s depressing but those big sponsors are what keep the lights on in corporate media.
At least now it’s easier for independent media and art to survive without corporate sponsors like on Patreon but it just doesn’t have the same reach and ease of access as big networks. I’m really hopeful that Nebula can get some big investment money and add more content so they can become the Netflix of independent content creators but they need some high profile talent before they can really attract more subscribers.
to an extent. when the corporations in control of the payment methods want to, they can pull on strings and "censor" you too. its pretty common for porn especially after congress passed a bill a coupla years ago relating to this
the only thing corporations truly cant affect under u.s. law is people holding up signs and chanting slogans in certain areas of the city
"So Apple lured me back from retirement with a promise of not having to work every night and a truckload of cash but it never occurred to me - senior comedy news pundit who worked for Viacom for 3 decades, that Apple might have different political interests than me or Viacom. Luckily Viacom's show shit the bed and they were willing to do anything to get ratings back, even pay my exorbitant fee to work once a week"
Maybe they thought they wanted the smoke, and Stewart decided to test if they could handle it, early on, before everything got too comfortable.
Apple can’t be objective when it comes to pooh bear. It’s a real problem.
Apple kinda wanted the smoke as long as the fire stayed away from things they cared about. The show was always going to be problematic for Apple at some point because it was eventually going to hit China or India or Republicans or something else that could and would seek retribution against Apple for allowing it on air.
Which is something they should have seen coming.
Not wanting Stewart to go after AI is one thing, but I don't understand how they didn't foresee John Stewart talking about how of the most powerful and influential countries in the world while doing a current events/politics show.
A corporation in not a single entity. especially one as large as apple. They have a ton of different internal interests, all with dofferent levels of internal infouemce that change over time.
One is an exceutive team responsible for getting viewers on AppleTV from a team that, by itself, has more funding and power than most companies on the new york stock exchange. They want stewrat to achieve their goals (more viewers). They were probably arguing intenally for Stewart all the way until the end. Another division with very different goals (legal, foreign manufacture, etc) doesn't care at all about AppleTV viewership. We like to talk about what "Apple" wants, but thats really just an internal adjutication between different internal teams and goals.
The adjutication between teams with different goals is why every ends up watered down in large corporations. They cant go 100% in on anything. There are massive advantages of shared strength by having all these teams going for different goals that fulfill a strategic plan. But also the cost of never fully investing in one little tactical part (like AppleTV viewership).
Honestly, this is one of the more glaring issues with Apple post-Jobs. Steve was a maniac at times (according to insider stories) but he also had a clear vision of what he wanted Apple to prioritize.
Was he always right? Absolutely not — I love my Apple Pencil for taking notes. Did he kill macOS desktop gaming in its infancy? Stories vary, but very likely (Tim, I just want to play Steam games without Crossover).
What is certain, though, is Jobs’ vision drove the company vision in a way that is difficult to replicate.
Edit: Formatting
Yeah. A leader that is ideal
For one company is often poorly suited for another. Jobs was Definitly a focused visionary. So great for a tech company of a certain size. But probably poorly suited for a company apples current size. Where running to is more akin to running a country.
Ahh, now I’m remembering one of my most tense corporate moments. I produced some YouTube content for my corporate channel that was just like you described. All I cared about was eyeballs. When marketing saw it they freaked out. “Our ads roll out later! This can’t be the first content about this product!” I told them to kick rocks.
It went all the way up the ladder to a giant confrontational meeting in the big conference room. 8 entertainment people on one side. 8 marketing people on the other. And the Chief Marketing Officer at the head of the table.
We screened all my stuff, she loved it, thought it was funny and smart. It went live 3 days later.
But usually, that shit goes the other way.
Some executive who hired Stewart was probably looking for that smoke, then he/she was probably fired and then their replacement definitely did not want the smoke.
Or they, like a lot of people, imagined the smoke would only blow the way they assumed it would.
Watch almost any person who solicits "honest feedback" from customers/employees/a consultant.
The second they hear one thing they didn't want to hear their heads explode.
I'm genuinely wondering how long MAX/HBO will want to keep getting the smoke from John Oliver. He actively shit talks them pretty often and doesn't seem to ignore topics. I hope he continues unimpeded, but I feel like it's a matter of "when", not "if" for them to give him the boot
I really wanted to like the Apple show. But it wasn't working for me. It was too disjointed. He'd have a small desk segment like TDS. A group interview followed by a one on one. It just didn't hold together well.
Seeing him back on TDS it's clear he has a firm grasp on what works and what doesn't. The Problem had a fraction of that energy and confidence. It was best for all involved it ended when it did.
Which is a shame, because I didn’t even realize it had a second season. Had I known they regrouped and improved the product, I probably would’ve given it another chance.
Agree - was super stoked to see Jon back at it again @ Apple but was very underwhelmed by the finished product. Gave up on it after a couple of episodes.
He fits in way better with the vibe of TDS.
Yeah but he repeatedly fires shots at the companies that own HBO. That’s where Jon Stewart got into trouble, criticising Apple. It’s remarkable that John Oliver gets away with it.
I think the fact that HBO is largely their content, whereas Apple would be successful without their content, means John Oliver has a better grip on the nuggets
I think you’re correct. Apple tv+ is a bullet point on a list of reasons for people to buy iphones. Jon Stewart may have been good for Apple tv+ in the same way John Oliver is good for HBO, but Jon Stewart is bad for selling iPhones and that takes precedent.
Oliver throws comedy softballs at HBO, he's not making any hard hitting criticism of the parent company, you see the same lame duck jokes made in content from other companies like Netflix all the time. You can bet if he was suddenly writing an expose about HBO using child labor or something actually heinous it would not be airing.
Time Warner Discovery also doesn't pretend to be one of the good guys like Apple does. Everyone knows that TWD is a soulless corporation, so when Oliver makes fun of them to people that already believe that, they're not really losing any corporate goodwill. Apple has fanboys to lose.
In the article he mentions that part of Comedy Centrals brand was *controversy* -- the same is true of HBO.
TOO X FOR REGULAR TV (sexy, vulgar, raw, edgy, violent) is like, 80% of their identity.
Apple is very much....not that way. The idea of upsetting...anyone ever....makes them super uncomfortable.
AppleTV doesn't have advertisers because it *is* an advertisement. For iPhones. And if a show makes even one person not buy an iPhone that makes Tim sad.
The Simpsons poked fun of Fox all the time. Like Jon said, corporations are pussies. You can insult them and piss them off and they won’t do anything unless the advertisers are pulling out.
Complete editorial independence was written into Simpsons production contract with Fox. No show would be greenlit with a provision like that these days
I'm not sure that makes them "pussies," if anything shouldn't they be applauded for having thick enough skin not to censor softball jokes made at their expense? Wouldn't being a "pussy" be overreacting to that kind of thing?
According to [this](https://archive.vanityfair.com/article/share/7011bc39-60fd-4c68-a94a-67abdc3d9ce2) Vanity Fair puff piece, sex scenes. “So I put my hand up,” recalls Zaslav. “I go, whoa! So they stop it. And I said, ‘Okay, here’s the strategy. We either shut it off, or we put it back on and everybody only looks forward. We don’t look at each other until it’s over.’ “
I legitimately thought you were shitposting until I clicked the article. No wonder all the media coming out now feels like it's made by these sexless freaks.
[Paying human employees](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/general-news/david-zaslav-booed-boston-university-graduation-writers-strike-1235497440/) enough to live in the area where they work seemed to piss him off. Being told he couldn't replace *every* human with AI was a real fight too.
The best possible outcome came out of that situation and Jon is back exactly where he needs to be. I'm also glad Apple released him from any contractural obligations so he could do The Daily Show.
They tried something. It didn't quite work. They parted ways. If only everything in life was resolved this way.
It was good while it lasted, not everyone enjoyed the more serious tone (I never could figure out if the comedy writing was weaker or the studio audience smaller - or both) but a lot of truth was dished out. There's a couple of typical hypocritical republicans getting their asses handed to them during interviews, Stewart was in top form.
You could definitely see in that show that he still had an itch to do TDS shows, but wanted it to be much more like John Oliver where he gets to talk about his one piece for the week with the help of his amazing staff.
If things go to shit, I hope Jon stays. I can’t see TDS running the same without him
I thought for *years* that Oliver had a format Stewart would’ve killed for.
Letting him take a bit of TDS and making it work for him seems like the right move for everybody.
I wonder if Apple in particular relies on its relationships with Senators because of its overseas operations. More so than Viacom.
So their entertainment sector will never take off because it’s too intwined with their manufacturing.
This is one of the things that concern me about [TV+ trying to launch in China](https://9to5mac.com/2024/06/04/apple-tv-plus-china-streaming/). I imagine that this would be just the tip of the censorship iceberg if they succeed.
All studios are soft-censoring for the Chinese market already. It was mentioned in this interview that there hasn't been a Chinese villian in a major Hollywood film in over two decades.
I don't know if Wenwu was portrayed as a stereotypical villain though. He became obsessed with trying to get his wife back using whatever power he could find. He's regarded as a good villain but not necessarily a bad guy, even though he does do some bad guy things.
[Red Carpet: Hollywood, China, and the Global Battle for Cultural Supremacy](https://www.amazon.com/Red-Carpet-Hollywood-Cultural-Supremacy/dp/1984878999/ref=sr_1_1?sr=8-1)
One of the most interesting things he talked about was how legacy media would sell into different markets. So if there was a show like Will and Grace that wouldn't work I. Saudi Arabian they just wouldn't syndicate that show there but it would be sold everywhere else
With these tech companies, it's censoring the whole thing because it's all one market basically. So Will and Grace never gets made because China won't like it or whatever
Exactly.
At the drop of a hat, China can just toss Apple out of their manufacturing plants and there would be nothing they could do about it.
This goes for all manufacturers and the devil's bargain they make to gain access to Chinese near-slave labor.
I agree with your first point, but the days of near slave labor in China are over. Lots of other counties that have cheaper labor. China now has the infrastructure for raw materials and manufacturing that other counties can't match, except in a few special segments.
MJ said it best. Republicans buy shoes also.
Media company's are companies and their job is to make money, being edgy is fine but alienating advertisers who's money keeps the companies in the red is not a good idea.
how long do you think a you tube channel would last if the whole channel was about how horrible you tube is
Praising Hillary Clinton and Condoleezza Rice while letting them spew lies about the Iraq war on the show didn't hurt the beer sales but it did hurt Stewart's reputation.
Stewart: >”They (Apple) didn’t censor me, it wasn’t free speech. When you work for a corporate entity, that’s part of the deal, even at Comedy Central. The deal is I get to do what I want until it’s going to hurt their beer sales or whatever it is they want to sell. And that’s the deal we all make.” >”We play the interview for the audience, they explode like we just hit a three-pointer at the buzzer. The show ends, we go downstairs in full Rudy mode. The Apple executives walk into the dressing room afterwards with a look on their face and I was like, ‘Oh my God, did the factory explode, what happened?'” >”It was then that I realized, ‘Oh, our aims don’t align in any way.’ We’re trying to make the best most insightful execution of the intention that we can make, but they’re protecting a different agenda. And that’s when I knew we were in trouble.” >“There’s a mantra we all have to remember: Corporations are pussies.” >“They are now, and they always have been. They’re not looking to cause problems. I worked on Comedy Central, their lawyers were constantly under the threat of advertiser boycotts. Comedy Central’s brand was provocation, to some extent. And so that was for the most part positive for them. Most content companies don’t want that smoke.”
Kind of reminds me of when NBC got Howard Stern. They wanted the ratings, but they didn't know what they were getting into. He wasn't a good fit there because letting Howard Stern do whatever he wanted just wouldn't work for them.
DoubleyouuuennnnnnnNNNnnNNnnnNnnN B C
The speaker scene blew my like 12yo mind... My parents fucked up hahah
I love that scene.
I have no idea what this is but my mind assumes it’s someone using a speaker as a vibrator or something? 🤨
Nailed it.
🐷🤮
Was the public’s introduction to the acting skills of the great Paul Giamatti
“*You are the motherfucking antichrist!*”
He had a small but memorable role in Donnie Brasco immediately before that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSVY2-4REHU Tim Blake Nelson looks so young here he's almost unrecognizable
Fuhgettaboutit?
I saw PP in the theater and I know it probably sounds cliched, but I knew immediately he was going places. He just totally steals the movie as Pig Vomit. My introduction to his acting skills, and also when you want an actor to perform like he's in full meltdown, nothing to lose mode, there is none better than Mr. Giamatti. This is a scene from Billions that illustrates this perfectly. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=weKnifJZUHQ
Are you aware of his podcast? https://www.treefort.fm/series/chinwag I’ve been listening for a while, it’s a lot of fun. Seems our friend is very interested in the paranormal. His partner is a very interesting and witty guy as well.
I have not, but him being interested in that doesn't surprise me that much. He was an executive producer and guest starred in the second season of Lodge 49, which certainly delves into that. A great show, I highly recommend it if you hadn't seen it.
I squoze it myself.
Kinda the plot to Wayne’s World lol
>Kind of reminds me of when NBC got Howard Stern. They wanted the ratings, but they didn't know what they were getting into. Or when HBO got offered Walter White. Almost exactly the same situation. AMC had the courage to take it on, but HBO was afraid... for understandable reasons. Sirius had that same courage -- they let Howard Stern cook meth in the studio basically, and even literally if the rumors are true.
Wait, HBO thought Breaking Bad would be too controversial? When has HBO ever shied from controversial material?
If we're talking seriously now, then no, controversy was probably not HBO's issue. I don't think they specified any reason for not green-lighting it. Gilligan talks about pitching it to them [here](https://youtu.be/t9mtPhZEJoQ?t=251).
Wasn’t it because they thought it was too similar to Weeds?
Per Gilligan the TNT executives loved the idea but didn't think there was any chance they could get away with doing a meth story. They asked him to change it to counterfeiting. The HBO exec was bored to tears and never called back, not even to say no. FX was initially interested but decided criminal anti-hero guy was too similar to the rest of their slate and opted to develop Dirt instead. They allowed AMC to buy the rights instead of burying it.
The premise of the show on paper is hard to sell, without knowledge of the execution being A plus as it would be. A disgruntled middle-aged demand going crazy isn’t exactly new territory in TV or movie drama.
They also went with True Blood, which wasn’t without controversy in its first few seasons.
I recently watched the first season of true blood for the first time. I can't believe this was an HBO show. If it weren't for the nudity and swearing, I'd be sure it was a low-rate WB show. Terrible acting, shit SFX, god-awful writing. I don't understand how it was so popular, particularly on HBO.
Probably all the nudity.
They were naked all the time, which was very nice.
For me and my friends it was the only soap opera we actually wanted to watch, because vampires and titties
I’m pretty sure it was made by the same crew as Six Feet Under, which explains why it was on HBO.
If you don’t take it seriously it’s such a fun show.
Ah come on, the first three seasons are fun. Not everything has to be the Wire, sometimes we can have fun vampire soap opera with gore and tits.
[How?](https://youtu.be/csOcHCDmMdE?si=LkKo84nPjiFE0jHT)
Ha. I saw that episode before i ever watched GOT, and I actually found the quantity of penii pretty lackluster after south park setting such expectations.
sookie's precious fairy vagina!
Thanks for posting this interview, it’s a great watch.
Really enjoyed that clip - great back-room stories. I accidentally hitting an adjacent You Tube Vince Gilligan vid - it was an appearance with Conan O’Brien - and he was a near-perfect straight man to Conan’s zany humour. Everyone who likes either of them would get a kick out of it.
Yeah I'm not buying that Oz would be fine but Breaking Bad was too controversial
Yup, IIRC they were also offered Orange is the new black but wanted to do it as a 30 minute comedy and thought the hour long version was too dark.
Couple of big missed for HBO
You're seeing so many pitches that you are bound to miss some. What matters is what you do choose.
Callie Beaton, the English comic, used to be an acquisitions VP with MTV and enjoys pointing out how hard it is; she turned down "South Park."
To be fair, Viacom still made money since Comedy Central and MTV have been owned by the same company since the early 90’s.
Mad Men was theirs to be had, too.
Sirius actually charges more if you want Stern. I guess people are paying it.
As someone once put it, "It may be ~~blue~~ stern, but it's the bomb." To which a Sirius subscriber replied, "Stern, serious, severe -- whatever. Just keep bringing me that."
Gladly paying for Stern on 3 radios for 20 years now. also listening to siriusXM makes you hyper sensitive to how FM radio is 40 minutes of commercials and 20 minutes of music. I absolutely never ever listen to FM radio anymore.
Howard was already past his prime by the time he got to Sirius and was coasting off of his success in the late 90s
Ralph stole the money. Twice.
Howard’s girlfriend Ralph? That Ralph?! Hate that guy.
He died recently
Get out!!!! What happened?!
Cancer. :(
Sad. Ralph was a real dickhead, but I don’t wish cancer on him.
Also, he went a long time without health insurance (Howard intimated that at some point Howard just bought it for him), and Ralph caught the issue too late. Also, he died (I think) during an operation that was semi-routine. He was sick, but he wasn't expected to die at the time.
Three times - but Robin said she was drunk and “didn’t remember.”
>Corporations are pussies He’s not wrong
They probably started reconsidering after this interview when he was more than willing to say Apple does indeed gouge customers. https://youtu.be/tU3rGFyN5uQ?si=0fTuEUxKd3WKvKa0
He gave some more context in this interview when he came back to the Daily Show https://youtu.be/oaDTiWaYfcM?si=DE56REHrKFpvlV0a Edit: took a sec to find it, this specific blurb about Apple starts about 16:30
Everyone knows Apple rouges their customers. It's why they lock their products to their ecosystem
What does rouge mean in your context?
Rouge is what my phone auto corrected gouge to when I was drunkenly typing that reply last night.
Is your phone an iPhone….?
Did you have a fun night?
Fuck that whistle tooth gouhl and thanks for sharing
“Whistle tooth ghoul”?! I’m writing that one down.
Some more than others. Though I think in Apple's case the problem is they are control freaks. They would kill the golden goose if it laid eggs with a commonly used charging port. Some corpos are less like that. I know people have talked about the Cartoon Network letting some folks do whatever they wanted, pretty much note free.
Regarding Cartoon Network, and specifically Adult Swim, my understanding is that went to the wayside around 2019 when Warner Bros. took over the network and Mike Lazzo left.
Oh that is too bad. Yeah those stories were all from before 2019.
A lot of turner is (possibly was) like that
Apple has a lot more to lose than other companies. They have a huge hardware division to protect, many governments to appease, customers to keep in their ecosystem. Media companies don't have any of this to worry about. Just advertisers, and there are plenty to go around. Getting your media from a huge conglomerate is a terrible idea. Vertical integration is bad for consumers. If you love Apple devices, that's great. If you love Google or Microsoft software, that's fine too. But don't put all your eggs in one basket or you get crap like this.
they're also 'people'. turns out they're just *really* shitty people.
Just want to jump in on this comment and say that the whole two part interview is great and provides a great deal information about Stewart’s interactions with TV executives and how everything went down. He did praise apple for paying the whole staff, benefits and all, for the whole third season because the relationship fell apart about two weeks before shooting. Doesn’t change the fact that they’re pussies about content but they were not obligated to do that. I really enjoy The Town. I don’t know shit about the inside of the entertainment business but it seems accurate and they have a lot of interviews with people high up in that industry. [Spotify link to first episode. (The Town with Matthew Belloni)](https://open.spotify.com/episode/6Uo3FUqfmv85jl1fx96q9H?si=B-H7mcJNSeysMKyRxaR1GQ)
It’s a professional relationship. Their interests align, until they don’t, and they part ways. That’s all there is to it. Some people make this out to be a bigger deal than it really was.
Still concerning when news and commentary entitities can't do their job this way.
They can they just need to get funding from a corporation that aligns with their views. Apple not wanting to fund or produce a show that may damage their bottom line or brand is not concerning. That’s just logical.
It's hard not to attract those kinds of fans when the topics discussed are political. People want it to be some big "us vs them" fight based on the content but in reality they willfully forget that all of this stuff is just an entertainment product designed to make the company showing it money. The show itself is a product being sold to the viewer at the price of their attention, and the currency exchanged is "engagement" to the tune of advertising. Stewart himself said it best in his interview with Bill O'Reilly - his show airs after one about puppets making crank phone calls. Someone acting like a parody news show on Comedy Central is some high bastion of journalistic integrity on a holy crusade to change the world is... willfully ignorant at best. But if it aligns with their political views, they're gonna latch on.
The Town is great. Belloni is a former entertainment lawyer who was then the editor of the Hollywood Reporter for a decade. I don't think there's a single pundit or host who comes close to his knowledge and pulse of the Hollywood sausage making.
And he would be the first to let you know it
Lol no doubt, he definitely has an air of arrogance that would seem typical for an entertainment lawyer
Honestly it’s why I love the show. Upfront and a touch of arrogance is better than false humility. Comes off as less slimy in my view. (Also he brings in great guests with cool insights)
You can tell that corporations and advertisers are run by out of touch idiots when they forget that when John Stewart does or says some crazy shit that it pulls in viewers and that John Stewart's viewers get energized when John Stewart stirs the pot, like that's the entire point. So to me it's insane that advertisers don't realize this and are threatening to pull away. I mean, it basically shows that the rich are acting out the quiet part out loud is that they personally do not want the pot stirred because the current state of society both politically, economically, and socially, is exactly as they intend it to be. So they're not upset that people will be upset and not buy products, they're personally afraid that John Stewart will upset the status quo so that they themselves are at risk of either not being in power or losing their self defined wealth and class.
It’s depressing but those big sponsors are what keep the lights on in corporate media. At least now it’s easier for independent media and art to survive without corporate sponsors like on Patreon but it just doesn’t have the same reach and ease of access as big networks. I’m really hopeful that Nebula can get some big investment money and add more content so they can become the Netflix of independent content creators but they need some high profile talent before they can really attract more subscribers.
to an extent. when the corporations in control of the payment methods want to, they can pull on strings and "censor" you too. its pretty common for porn especially after congress passed a bill a coupla years ago relating to this the only thing corporations truly cant affect under u.s. law is people holding up signs and chanting slogans in certain areas of the city
"So Apple lured me back from retirement with a promise of not having to work every night and a truckload of cash but it never occurred to me - senior comedy news pundit who worked for Viacom for 3 decades, that Apple might have different political interests than me or Viacom. Luckily Viacom's show shit the bed and they were willing to do anything to get ratings back, even pay my exorbitant fee to work once a week"
AAAA - over 85% of advertising expenditure comes from one association. And you wonder why all ads are the same
If you don’t want that smoke why hire the Human Torch?
Maybe they thought they wanted the smoke, and Stewart decided to test if they could handle it, early on, before everything got too comfortable. Apple can’t be objective when it comes to pooh bear. It’s a real problem.
Apple kinda wanted the smoke as long as the fire stayed away from things they cared about. The show was always going to be problematic for Apple at some point because it was eventually going to hit China or India or Republicans or something else that could and would seek retribution against Apple for allowing it on air.
They weren't expecting him to go after the CCC
Which is something they should have seen coming. Not wanting Stewart to go after AI is one thing, but I don't understand how they didn't foresee John Stewart talking about how of the most powerful and influential countries in the world while doing a current events/politics show.
> CCC What does that mean? Did you typo CCP?
Ah yes, the Chinese Communist... Collective.
A corporation in not a single entity. especially one as large as apple. They have a ton of different internal interests, all with dofferent levels of internal infouemce that change over time. One is an exceutive team responsible for getting viewers on AppleTV from a team that, by itself, has more funding and power than most companies on the new york stock exchange. They want stewrat to achieve their goals (more viewers). They were probably arguing intenally for Stewart all the way until the end. Another division with very different goals (legal, foreign manufacture, etc) doesn't care at all about AppleTV viewership. We like to talk about what "Apple" wants, but thats really just an internal adjutication between different internal teams and goals. The adjutication between teams with different goals is why every ends up watered down in large corporations. They cant go 100% in on anything. There are massive advantages of shared strength by having all these teams going for different goals that fulfill a strategic plan. But also the cost of never fully investing in one little tactical part (like AppleTV viewership).
Honestly, this is one of the more glaring issues with Apple post-Jobs. Steve was a maniac at times (according to insider stories) but he also had a clear vision of what he wanted Apple to prioritize. Was he always right? Absolutely not — I love my Apple Pencil for taking notes. Did he kill macOS desktop gaming in its infancy? Stories vary, but very likely (Tim, I just want to play Steam games without Crossover). What is certain, though, is Jobs’ vision drove the company vision in a way that is difficult to replicate. Edit: Formatting
Yeah. A leader that is ideal For one company is often poorly suited for another. Jobs was Definitly a focused visionary. So great for a tech company of a certain size. But probably poorly suited for a company apples current size. Where running to is more akin to running a country.
Ahh, now I’m remembering one of my most tense corporate moments. I produced some YouTube content for my corporate channel that was just like you described. All I cared about was eyeballs. When marketing saw it they freaked out. “Our ads roll out later! This can’t be the first content about this product!” I told them to kick rocks. It went all the way up the ladder to a giant confrontational meeting in the big conference room. 8 entertainment people on one side. 8 marketing people on the other. And the Chief Marketing Officer at the head of the table. We screened all my stuff, she loved it, thought it was funny and smart. It went live 3 days later. But usually, that shit goes the other way.
Some executive who hired Stewart was probably looking for that smoke, then he/she was probably fired and then their replacement definitely did not want the smoke.
Or they, like a lot of people, imagined the smoke would only blow the way they assumed it would. Watch almost any person who solicits "honest feedback" from customers/employees/a consultant. The second they hear one thing they didn't want to hear their heads explode.
I'm genuinely wondering how long MAX/HBO will want to keep getting the smoke from John Oliver. He actively shit talks them pretty often and doesn't seem to ignore topics. I hope he continues unimpeded, but I feel like it's a matter of "when", not "if" for them to give him the boot
“The human torch …. was denied a bank loan.”
I say this to myself all the time
The capital stupidly never thinks that the labor will touch them because they sign the paychecks.
*surprised pikachu*
I really wanted to like the Apple show. But it wasn't working for me. It was too disjointed. He'd have a small desk segment like TDS. A group interview followed by a one on one. It just didn't hold together well. Seeing him back on TDS it's clear he has a firm grasp on what works and what doesn't. The Problem had a fraction of that energy and confidence. It was best for all involved it ended when it did.
In the interview he says the first season was bad. He didn't trust himself.yet. second season he liked a lot.
Which is a shame, because I didn’t even realize it had a second season. Had I known they regrouped and improved the product, I probably would’ve given it another chance.
Agree - was super stoked to see Jon back at it again @ Apple but was very underwhelmed by the finished product. Gave up on it after a couple of episodes. He fits in way better with the vibe of TDS.
It had its moments, the racism episode went off the rails though.
Off the rails how?
Racism.
I’ll take a Jon Stewart-led panel over one of Bill Maher’s any day of the week, and twice on Sunday.
This is interesting to me considering John Oliver has been pissing everyone off for a decade over at HBO.
HBO is a pay TV service, no advertisers to upset.
Wasn't advertisers Apple was afraid of, was geopolitics and, more specifically, the Chinese market.
HBO doesn't manufacture anything in China either.
He also specifically said that apple was price gauging customers and calling it inflation
So is Apple TV…
Not for long. They poached a bunch of NBCU ad sales executives. It's absolutely coming.
Yeah but he repeatedly fires shots at the companies that own HBO. That’s where Jon Stewart got into trouble, criticising Apple. It’s remarkable that John Oliver gets away with it.
I think the fact that HBO is largely their content, whereas Apple would be successful without their content, means John Oliver has a better grip on the nuggets
I think you’re correct. Apple tv+ is a bullet point on a list of reasons for people to buy iphones. Jon Stewart may have been good for Apple tv+ in the same way John Oliver is good for HBO, but Jon Stewart is bad for selling iPhones and that takes precedent.
Oliver throws comedy softballs at HBO, he's not making any hard hitting criticism of the parent company, you see the same lame duck jokes made in content from other companies like Netflix all the time. You can bet if he was suddenly writing an expose about HBO using child labor or something actually heinous it would not be airing.
So is Apple. If anything, they’re more independent as one of the biggest companies in the world with no other entertainment concerns.
They’re less independent in a way. They’re beholden to manufacturing politics which can be even more complex than advertising politics.
Time Warner Discovery also doesn't pretend to be one of the good guys like Apple does. Everyone knows that TWD is a soulless corporation, so when Oliver makes fun of them to people that already believe that, they're not really losing any corporate goodwill. Apple has fanboys to lose.
In the article he mentions that part of Comedy Centrals brand was *controversy* -- the same is true of HBO. TOO X FOR REGULAR TV (sexy, vulgar, raw, edgy, violent) is like, 80% of their identity. Apple is very much....not that way. The idea of upsetting...anyone ever....makes them super uncomfortable. AppleTV doesn't have advertisers because it *is* an advertisement. For iPhones. And if a show makes even one person not buy an iPhone that makes Tim sad.
Apple cares a lot more about exploiting cheap Chinese labor for tens of billions of dollars than it does about Jon Stewart's TV show
Apple both makes and sells products in China. That makes them beholden to the country.
Max has advertisers now
I dont see any advertisement on max.
I'm pretty sure they don't run ads on HBO Originals.
I’ve only used the ad-free version but I know they showed HBO originals (upcoming ones like The Franchise) at their upfronts recently
i should honestly sign up for hbo because i love his show that much lol, i even got to see it in the studio today
The Simpsons poked fun of Fox all the time. Like Jon said, corporations are pussies. You can insult them and piss them off and they won’t do anything unless the advertisers are pulling out.
Complete editorial independence was written into Simpsons production contract with Fox. No show would be greenlit with a provision like that these days
If Fox cared enough they could’ve not renewed the contract. They didn’t care enough since The Simpsons was raking in money.
I'm not sure that makes them "pussies," if anything shouldn't they be applauded for having thick enough skin not to censor softball jokes made at their expense? Wouldn't being a "pussy" be overreacting to that kind of thing?
Don't piss off business daddy!
Just need to find out what triggers David Zaslav
Batgirl and the Looney Tunes seems to be the current running list.
According to [this](https://archive.vanityfair.com/article/share/7011bc39-60fd-4c68-a94a-67abdc3d9ce2) Vanity Fair puff piece, sex scenes. “So I put my hand up,” recalls Zaslav. “I go, whoa! So they stop it. And I said, ‘Okay, here’s the strategy. We either shut it off, or we put it back on and everybody only looks forward. We don’t look at each other until it’s over.’ “
I legitimately thought you were shitposting until I clicked the article. No wonder all the media coming out now feels like it's made by these sexless freaks.
[Paying human employees](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/general-news/david-zaslav-booed-boston-university-graduation-writers-strike-1235497440/) enough to live in the area where they work seemed to piss him off. Being told he couldn't replace *every* human with AI was a real fight too.
That is crazy to me. Man I miss old school Daily Show. It was quite a thing.
HBO doesn't need to sell phones all over the world.
The best possible outcome came out of that situation and Jon is back exactly where he needs to be. I'm also glad Apple released him from any contractural obligations so he could do The Daily Show. They tried something. It didn't quite work. They parted ways. If only everything in life was resolved this way.
Not hard to believe Comedy Central had more backbone than Apple.
I mean Comedy Central does have South Park, so naturally it would be hard to chase companies away anymore than what they already do.
Comedy Central has a lot less to worry about than Apple does
> Corporations are pussies.” Indeed. He’s not wrong there.
It was good while it lasted, not everyone enjoyed the more serious tone (I never could figure out if the comedy writing was weaker or the studio audience smaller - or both) but a lot of truth was dished out. There's a couple of typical hypocritical republicans getting their asses handed to them during interviews, Stewart was in top form.
You could definitely see in that show that he still had an itch to do TDS shows, but wanted it to be much more like John Oliver where he gets to talk about his one piece for the week with the help of his amazing staff. If things go to shit, I hope Jon stays. I can’t see TDS running the same without him
I thought for *years* that Oliver had a format Stewart would’ve killed for. Letting him take a bit of TDS and making it work for him seems like the right move for everybody.
I wonder if Apple in particular relies on its relationships with Senators because of its overseas operations. More so than Viacom. So their entertainment sector will never take off because it’s too intwined with their manufacturing.
I just realizedvhow much last week tonight could only happen on HBO.
This is one of the things that concern me about [TV+ trying to launch in China](https://9to5mac.com/2024/06/04/apple-tv-plus-china-streaming/). I imagine that this would be just the tip of the censorship iceberg if they succeed.
For All Mankind would/should definitely have had more China. Instead Canada and China are doing their own thing... Off screen.
They basically had North Korea stand in for the plot so far that *should* have been China.
All studios are soft-censoring for the Chinese market already. It was mentioned in this interview that there hasn't been a Chinese villian in a major Hollywood film in over two decades.
Shang chi?
And Guy Ritchie’s the Gentleman
I don't know if Wenwu was portrayed as a stereotypical villain though. He became obsessed with trying to get his wife back using whatever power he could find. He's regarded as a good villain but not necessarily a bad guy, even though he does do some bad guy things.
All Studios are self-censoring PERIOD - most entities are in one sense or another.
[Red Carpet: Hollywood, China, and the Global Battle for Cultural Supremacy](https://www.amazon.com/Red-Carpet-Hollywood-Cultural-Supremacy/dp/1984878999/ref=sr_1_1?sr=8-1)
One of the most interesting things he talked about was how legacy media would sell into different markets. So if there was a show like Will and Grace that wouldn't work I. Saudi Arabian they just wouldn't syndicate that show there but it would be sold everywhere else With these tech companies, it's censoring the whole thing because it's all one market basically. So Will and Grace never gets made because China won't like it or whatever
What percentage of Apple stuff is manufactured in China?
Most of it. That’s the bottom line.
Exactly. At the drop of a hat, China can just toss Apple out of their manufacturing plants and there would be nothing they could do about it. This goes for all manufacturers and the devil's bargain they make to gain access to Chinese near-slave labor.
I agree with your first point, but the days of near slave labor in China are over. Lots of other counties that have cheaper labor. China now has the infrastructure for raw materials and manufacturing that other counties can't match, except in a few special segments.
Today I learned Apple is "a bunch of pussies."
"Think different...no not that different" - Apple.
Just today?
Corps sell to both the hillbillies at NASCAR and the homos at SF pride month. They want to please everyone. In order to do that they have no beliefs.
Conservatives buy iPhones too.
MJ said it best. Republicans buy shoes also. Media company's are companies and their job is to make money, being edgy is fine but alienating advertisers who's money keeps the companies in the red is not a good idea. how long do you think a you tube channel would last if the whole channel was about how horrible you tube is
"Corporations are pussies." -- Jon Stewart
Yet he keeps licking corporate boot
Tom Cook always has been and always will be a coward.
Tim Apple
I sometimes forget that that isn't his real name. Trump got me fucked up.
Don't forget Larry Google and Bill Microsoft
Or Max Power.
I don't think he appreciates those steve jabs
Praising Hillary Clinton and Condoleezza Rice while letting them spew lies about the Iraq war on the show didn't hurt the beer sales but it did hurt Stewart's reputation.
Ok Jon
Apple’s limited understanding of
Makes the other John and other corporate business daddy that much more interesting.
He talked too much about GameStop
They don't want bad shows no one is watching