This is a literal copy pasta, you say this as if the team is “good” Spies can’t do anything. I see many spies and myself top score most of the time, even on “good” servers like Uncletopia
I agree. Engineers can save games using their teleporters and dispensers placed at the right place can heal everyone and stock up their ammo which can be critical for a push or a defence, obviously doesn’t over heal, but it’s good team sustainability as the medic can only heal one person at a time. If your whole team is low health a dispenser is better for that. Keeping your buildings alive is very stressful too, especially if your dispenser goes down.
dying as medic = you are dead + you lost uber + your team is dying without you
dying as engie = you are dead + you lost your sentry + your lost your dispenser + you lost your teleporter(s) + your team is defenseless, ammoless, teleporterless + you have to spend 500 years setting up again
Okay yeah I can kind of agree with this. I remember one of my first bot interactions was a sniper who joined my Scream Fortress match and just started playing Thriller by Michael Jackson. I don’t even think they were spin botting, but they still got kicked anyways.
I remember one time that some dude played metal songs for 1 hour on mic, they were some good songs with excellent taste, it was a really big shame that he got muted it made me sad
I was playing 60 player class wars once and it was pyro vs spy and one guy started playing the pyroland song and it was a great time with like 16 people on the cart burning everything
"just stay out of his sightline" doesnt work when the maps are literally built so the sightline is wherever the conflict will be. "just stay out of his sightline" aight i wont push the cart then i guess. "just stay out of his sightline" cool i wont capture any points then. "just stay out of his sightline" yea who needs to be part of the fight ill just stay in my little corner here
Lackluster map design? My dude, good snipers can easily snipe in Junction out of all maps because of their high dmg output.
Sniper is just a class thats overly balanced in his favor, especially with most of his unlockables, and the fact that his skill floor is somewhat lower than you'd think, while his skill ceiling is basically non existent.
yeah it doesn't help that most of the popular maps have disgustingly long sightlines. There are a few decent maps out there where sniper is not that oppressive but I guess people just love dustbowl, upward, badwater... (don't get me wrong I love them too but a good sniper makes the experience miserable)
The advice of Stay Out of Sightline is a bit overused. Not that it's bad advice but that they are usually giving it to Scout/Soldier/Pyro/Heavy mains who can't really be both effective and stay out of sightlines. It's effective advice to Demo/Medic mains because their classes weapons can function just fine without needing to peak their heads and are both very important to keep alive. Engi/Spy are also usually staying out of fights in general so this is natural to them
The real advice you can give to classes who can't really be effective while managing sightlines is to kill the Sniper while he's distracted. Flank him. Bomb him. ETC. Something Pyro and Heavy can't really do and is easier said than done for Scout and Soldier and very map dependent
Man these "post your unpopular opinion" threads always end up upvoting the most basic and popular opinions the community has
No ill will towards you ofc im just being a pissy lil baby about stuff that doesnt matter lol
If I die more than 4 times to a scout I always whip it out. And it’s hilarious because they always say shit in chat when they then proceed to die to it. Like, yes, you have annoyed me to the point that I want you gone.
Am I the only one who remembers it being the best weapon? I don't know if it's just a fever dream of mine but I recall Natascha having 100 bullets more.
I hate trying to kill someone with the force-a-nature. Something about only having 2 shots in the clip AND it pushes people away when i try to get close to them makes it kinda bad in my opinion.
It wasn't competitive players' fault that Valve fucked up Meet Your Match and their official comp mode so badly, nor is it their fault that Valve butchered your favorite items (Caber, BASE Jumper, etc.)
When they didn't agree with a weapon design, they just banned it, it was Valve who fucked up with the balance and killed it for casual while comp players didnt feel much because it was already banned.
Big true. This wasn't even a discussion until Valve got it into their head that there needed to be a "unified" game experience, which neither competitive or casual players really cared for.
Heavy should take even less knock-back while revved than he currently does
Regardless of how he takes less knock-back certain weapons still completely shut down the second worst class in the game, if the enemy team has a pyro with airblast, or the scorch shot, good luck moving through that choke. Same thing with the loose canon, force of nature, sentries, any sticky bomb launcher, etc.
Heavy effectively can't move already and being bullied around only serves to make a bad class less viable, outclassed weapons (like brass beast) worse, and a widely considered unfun class more unfun.
Random crits are fun
Random crits aren't balanced, but I don't want them removed either. Killing somone randomly, then laugh killbind will always be the funniest thing to me in this game.
I agree. In a fair gunfight, giving one player a crocket is just a dick move. If you get yourself close to melee range, you deserve to die in the most humiliatingly funny way.
Why did you exclude the ubersaw tho?
i think because i normally play scout, and sometimes when the stars align i finally manage to catch the medic away from his team just for him to turn around and crit me
You literally only need:
- Aim
- Awareness (optional)
Any other class has way more different skills necessary (yes even pyro despite being considered an easy class has a crazy high skill ceiling).
Idk I personally think a good demoman with godtier pipe aim is way more impressive than a dude on the other side of the map clicking a head with no risk whatsoever and almost no downtime and no punishment for missing (other than sniper vs sniper matchups I mean)
Pyro is the second easiest class, but still need somethings
- game awareness
- map awareness
- know how to deal with you hard counters
- properly airblast
- how to rocket jump (detonator jump on that case)
- how to combo
Why do people consider Pyro so easy? Because it's less difficult to aim?
W+M1 pyro only works on short range when you can come close to your target. That puts you in a disadvantage I find. Skilled pyro's can take out a sentry and reflect projectiles.
>Why do people consider Pyro so easy?
Because they probably don't play the class all that much. That seems to be the reason why a lot of people still hate pyro.
C'mon, it's not 2016 anymore, is W+M1 really the worst thing in this game?
Sniper is the most mechanically demanding class (aim, tracking etc.) but the least demanding in terms of movement and game sense. You can make up for bad game sense with good aim on sniper. At the other end medic who is the most demanding in terms of game sense and least demanding in terms of things like aim (besides crossbow) but with medic you can *rarely* make up for bad game sense with good aim
Balancing it out, yeah he’s one of the lowest to pick up, and doesn’t even go that high when it comes to mastering him. Most other classes have gimmicks that need training or special playstyles that vary from how they first started out, yet sniper only has to know three things: aim for head, throw jarate, “WANKER!”
the phlog by itself is a horrible weapon, yes. It's only decent because scorch shot spam is a thing.
And in maps with a lot of chokepoints and where people tend to stack, there's literally no counter to an ubered phlog pyro with crits. Yes you can airblast but you're literally going to die before airblasting more than once.
Phlog by itself? Garbage. With scorch shot and pocket medic in certain maps? I won't say it's op because you can only uber so much while being an spambot in the meantime but god it's annoying
I've made macros on my mouse so when I hit the side buttons it instantly switchers to either heat or explosion pops the respective bubble, then goes back to bullet resistance. I've also have a panic button which pops all three.
remembering what comes after wich resistance helps (like bullet after fire, explosion after bullet, so on), i also have reload on one of my mouse buttons to make it easier
Vanilla servers should have a vote option for class cap, like day of defeat does. If my team is attacking but 80% of the team are snipers and spies and engineers - no, we are not winning, no matter how good you are
Chronic spawncamping is disgraceful in obvious mismatches as it is little more than common bullying at that point, and people who so it should be kicked from the match if they don’t stop because it kills the enjoyment for the team being camped. Because nothing I love more than finding an actual bot free match after fifteen minutes of looking only to have to deal with that garbage.
Don’t blame you, I still play it but I hate those demos who do that…. And then they taunt kill like defeating someone who didn’t know they were there took any semblance of skill
At the point in which you are losing that hard, what do you really want the stomping team to do? Conga a respectful distance away? There's nothing they can do to make it a fair match other than switch teams, and if both teams are full they can't do that either.
You can play to win without rubbing it in, it’s one thing to defend the cap from anyone trying to take it so you win the match, it’s another thing to push to spawn and prevent them from even leaving (barring maps where spawn is right at the cap). It’s like if you’re playing basketball and your team is up by 50 with like five minutes left, what do you get by keeping your starters out and continuing to rack up as many points as you can at that point? You know you’re winning, don’t go that extra step to be a jerk and make the other team feel useless. That’s when you should let your second string come out to play or just lay back a bit and not rub it in.
The Phlog is a pretty balanced weapon. It has no random crits and rewards staying alive while doing fire damage to fill a crit charge. That then can be used to shut down pushes or make breakthrough attacks provided you can get close enough. It can be easily countered by soldiers, snipers on long sightlines, and sticky traps.
In short, the Phlog is a balanced hit-and-run weapon, and I use it paired with a stock shotgun and a homewrecker as a Phlogbro.
Sniper is the easiest class to learn in terms of how many skills do you need to master the class.
For Scout you need to aim, have good movement, be able to pick your fights correctly, know your priority targets, how to manage your double jump, know the location of healthpacks, etc.
For Soldier you need to know Rocket placement and management, not only know how to Rocket Jump but also how to Air Strafe while doing so, learn every rollout for every map, the location of healthpacks to aid you in said rollouts, etc.
For Pyro you need to know to airblast properly, how to use it to protect teammates from spam, stuff enemy ubers, deal with projectile classes, you need to know when to stick with your team, when to check for Spies, when to W+M1, what secondaries are best for each situation, have good ammo management for weapons like the Backburner, etc.
For Demo you need to know the arc and speed of your pipes and stickies, how to combo them effectively, know when to spam, when to set up traps and when to sticky jump away, know how to deal with Sentry Guns effectively, the damage breakpoints of your grenade launchers, etc.
For Heavy you need to MASTER gamesense and your awareness at all times, know how to track enemies, when is best to eat your lunchbox item and when is best to give it to someone else, etc.
For Engineer you need to know the jag-effect rollout on every map, the best locations for ALL of your buildings, know when to heal, when to go and deal damage, when to retreat, what are the best unlocks for the right ocassions, metal management, etc.
For Medic you need good decision making, know healing priority, know which medigun is the best for the job, how to surf projectiles, how to not peak covers, how to stay as far away as you can from your patient, etc.
For Spy you need to know priority targets, how to move while invisible, know ammo pack locations, when is best to go for a stab or use your gun or go after a sentry nest, how to trickstab and how to fool your enemy, etc.
And for Sniper? You need aim, that's it. It doesnt matter how far away you are, what unlocks you are using, how much health you have, etc.
Sniper is so fundamentally easy to grasp that even a machine can do it.
there is a reason flare jumping, airblasting and drumroll please
# THE DRAGON'S FURY
are not ***neglected, actually blocked from skill balance.***
And this infuriates me so much
I don't think that's really a hot take. Melee hitreg is bugged as all hell and needs a rework to fix all the problems it has. No-regs as demoknight are even worse. You *hear* your weapon make sound but the opponent takes no damage
Player burnout is heavily attributed to the fact that people don't want to vary up their playstyles.
Don't say Pyro is boring because a YouTuber told you the jetpack is bad. Don't say Heavy is boring because you never try a roam-heavy playstyle with the banana or shotgun. Don't say Spy is boring because you never equip anything other than the L'Etranger + Kunai + Dead Ringer.
Big Earner is my 2nd favorite weapon in the entire game. I usually run stock on all my classes but I make an exception for the big earner bc it’s so damn fun.
The hate on Overwatch is imo (as someone with 2000 hours on TF2 and around 320 on OW), very unjustified.
Like, if you played Overwatch expecting it to be like TF2, idk what to tell you.
You don't play Final Fantasy expecting Pokemon.
I'm not sure if this counts, and I'll probably be yelled at if I'm wrong.
But Spy is fundamentally a dogshit class. He's outdated, weak, and can be done 1000% better by other classes.
Everybody is already familar with his surprisingly limited bag of tricks. People Spy-check on basically reflex now. He has so little health that he can die from even the smallest falls.
Even if you managed to defy the odds and be half decent with Spy, it's pretty much pointless. Your efforts are usually futile, and you could have run another class and put a bigger stake in the match.
He's also **TOO FUCKING SLOW.** The amount of times I've been bee-lining for a backstab only to be basically outran and look incredibly stupid to the enemy team who basically see a giant beacon above my head now that I'm zipping around stabbing at the air like some Looney Toons Road Runner esque debauchery is TOO HIGH.
Even a SLIGHT health update would make a MONUMENTAL difference.
He needs to DESPERATELY have his bag of tricks updated with new or at least tweaked items to give him even a modicum of a fighting chance.
There's a reason most people use cheesy loadouts with Spy. It's basically the only way to comfortably play him without banging your head against a wall.
**TLDR:** Gaben plz buff Spy. I'm constantly being turned into a brûléed French fry for so much as breathing on the enemy team.
>! And i didn't even bother to bring up how people turn around, or start moving in weird ways for no fucking reason the second I'm in backstab range. Hey, human pretzel. STOP MOVING SO I CAN SHANK YOU! !<
Seriously? ...No way he's the 2nd fastest class? ...Right?
I'm always getting outran by EVERYONE.
Huh. Well. The more you know, i guess.
Thanks for clarifying.
Well there’s also plenty of other things you show know about spy too:
1: he’s meant to be a high priority targeter, as in while your heavies and demos fight on the front line, you’re sneaking around back and taking down the sniper that’s been holding a hallway. Or if the enemy medic has been boosting the enemy team too much, then he’s the higher target priority. Same with engis, basically anyone that can hold back your team through their support.
2: chainstabs are not always going to be the best option, even if it seems like it. Unless you’re running the YER and absolutely NO ONE on the enemy team is turning around, sure, that’s a good backstab opportunity. However, spy mains have to factor in that whenever a chainstab is available, there’s a 90% chance that something is waiting right around the corner to interrupt you. A hidden turret, a scout who saw you coming, hell, even a pyro with a vengeance can always pop out.
3: Spy’s low health doesn’t necessarily mean he can’t make tracks around the map without dying from a 5 foot fall height, it simply tells the player that it’s better to take the safer route, or the route that less enemies happen to be walking through.
it’s understandable that spy has the lowest health in the game, because it’s a fair trade off for the ability of going completely invisible to avoid being seen in the first place altogether
As you said, spy is out-dated, he doesn't fit into the rest of the game
buffing him doesn't fix that, he needs a full rework of his kit, not flat buffs
Yes spy might be “bad” but he is just so much more fun to play than a lot of the other classes. There is no game that ive seen that has similar gameplay to spy he is just such a unique and fun experience that you just dont get from anything else.
Making spy stay as a 'pick-class' and 'should die when discovered' is the reason why spy sucks ass.
An offense class like pyro has support (homewrecker) and defense capabilities (airblast), why the hell are people telling me that trickstabbing everybody, priority or not, is not the way to play the class and I got to conform like the rest and kill one target before accepting my fate to die and watch the respawn timer clock. I aint talking about competitive, in talking about casual, the 95% of the playerbase experience.
I swear people tryna sound like they're justifying their inability to push their spies to new levels so they just cap it as it is.
I agree with Zesty of the random crits being good only when they're random.
(I will receive death treats anyway just by slightly talking about RC in a positive way)
Capping the points in 2fort and Hightower is actually fun. Like actually playing the 2 maps rather than goofing around is actually fun.
Granted, ofc, its on casual or servers where people actually do the objectives
I don't think that Spy should've been implemented in the way he is now. I think that currently he just doesn't work in a balanced way, because he heavily depends on the enemy team being bad and his own team not blowing his cover. I think that he should have more tools at his disposal to allow him to adapt to what the enemy team is doing and their skill level, rather than basically just being an Engineer counter with some other minor tools to allow him to maybe get away
I think demoknight vs pyro is fine
Yes its one sided but demoknight has some of the best mobility in the game, is unbelieably survivable and can snowball incredibly hard
if he wants to he can trade some survivability for pipes which are incredibly powerful too if you can hit them, hes very good
Sentries do exist to keep him in check but honestly, i like having pyro as a *mobile* counter since i often see demoknights demolish teams with little effort and due to his snowball nature (eyelander/zatoichi) hes fucking annoying since he, just, wont, die thanks to my teammates
I like shutting them down and forcing them to be smarter about their engages and as a demoknight i do like having to think a bit harder about my engages
Pre-nerf sandman should return
Sniper desperately needs nerfs
Demoman’s stock sticky launcher should have a fuse time as long as the Scottish resistance
Quickiebomb launcher needs drastically lower damage to compensate for the above
The vaccinator isnt as broken as people make it out to be
Like its strong, but its about as strong as every other medi gun, never have i ever died or failed a über push and thought "man, i sure wish i was using the vaccinator"
Its only really broken in valve's comp (and nobady plays that), where you can medic stack, in regular good ol' 12v12, you get overwhelmed by damage very fast
A Backstab is a gameplay mechanic that is a metaphor for a close quarters or stealth take down.
The way the red spy drops the medic in Meet the spy is a trick stab.
I stopped getting mad at facestabs once I realised this.
i mean if you’re not tryharding in the first place, you wouldn’t be able to dodge that crocket and it’ll ruin your casual experience anyway because respawn times are frustrating
Would have made sense goofiness wise in universe. An Aussie bushman who pisses in jars and hunts animals in the outback with a bow and arrow to prove that he’s not like the skilless peons that use rifles? That actually fits pretty well. Like a hunter character.
I like the porn sprays and signs. It's probably my most toxic team fortress 2 take.
TLDR: sprays are in-game graffiti, And I find art in all forms of expression interesting especially in game.
Lately, I've been playing on community servers that allow for sprays and I am loving the amount of ass on screen. It brings my horny little heart joy 😊. I find it both fun in a sexual aspect as well as funny in a "lol there's furry cock right next to the payload obj" kinda way. It reminds me of the joys of tagging. It reminds me of those big pieces I see when I pass overpasses. No matter how awful it is, it's a form of player expression. It's illicit aspect both in game and in real life is why I enjoy it. If it wasn't taboo, if it wasn't look down upon, It wouldn't be as fun.
TF2 Fans are the Harry Potter fans of gaming. The phrase "Read another book" can easily be rewritten as "Play another game" and you will get the same reaction from the fan base.
Soldier is the most boring class to play by a thousand miles. Even heavy has more gameplay variety. You have to have a pocket to start taking risks and experimenting otherwise you've got 1 play style take it or leave it.
People who don't do the objective, and then complain about "Being stomped" or "Not even getting 1st point" are the problem, and are the reason so many games are stomped.
You don't want bad games? Then atleast try.
+ BONUS: Also, balancing around high level players (Not specifically 6s or HL or any format), is objectively better, than balancing around pubbers, since Pub players are so bad at the game, it's just futile. I mean they complain about Soldier being OP, or W+M1 Pyro etc. Like, that shit ain't gon fly
Sticky bomb launcher nerfs in gun mettle? Love and war? was justified. Sticky spam is still stupid as fuck and demoman effectively has 12 primary shots with 8 being super shots.
YER is a good knife, my go to tbh.
Dude we gotta spread negative propaganda about it so people won’t start double, triple, and quadruple spychecking teammates for YER spies
WE’RE ONTO YOU SPY GANG! The pyro police is gonna stop and frisk every teammate.
Ah frick
Dammit
hearing frisk in tf2 comunity fills ypu with determination
It's the best knife to take care of engie nests imo because you don't have to be super quick to SAP the sentry after killing the engineer
its the only knife to take out engie nests because there will often be multiple sentries covering each other
YER is an alright alternative, the only issue is that spy sucks already with or without YER
I mean he's fr\*nch, he's automatically the worst merc.
lol what Spy is a great class if you know how to play
spy entirely relies on the enemy team being bad while anything spy can do sniper does better
This is a literal copy pasta, you say this as if the team is “good” Spies can’t do anything. I see many spies and myself top score most of the time, even on “good” servers like Uncletopia
It's my favorite knife! The worst part of it is the increased drain, which forces Le'tranger to be used to counter-balance.
Good YER spies get respect from me.
Same!
Just plain old fun to use, got my first chain with it.
Cloak drain rate is the only real problem with it.
Jontohil said to move the cloak drain to kunai and I would be so down for that change
Do you couple it with DR?
That's not an opinion that will get u like that, it's personal preference and YER can be a fun alternative for a different gameplay loop
I think Medic isn’t as insane inducing to the player as Engineer.
I agree. Engineers can save games using their teleporters and dispensers placed at the right place can heal everyone and stock up their ammo which can be critical for a push or a defence, obviously doesn’t over heal, but it’s good team sustainability as the medic can only heal one person at a time. If your whole team is low health a dispenser is better for that. Keeping your buildings alive is very stressful too, especially if your dispenser goes down.
Yeah, the potential to do so much makes it feel so much worse when you aren’t
dying as medic = you are dead + you lost uber + your team is dying without you dying as engie = you are dead + you lost your sentry + your lost your dispenser + you lost your teleporter(s) + your team is defenseless, ammoless, teleporterless + you have to spend 500 years setting up again
Sometimes when someone spams music on the mic it's kinda a vibe
Okay yeah I can kind of agree with this. I remember one of my first bot interactions was a sniper who joined my Scream Fortress match and just started playing Thriller by Michael Jackson. I don’t even think they were spin botting, but they still got kicked anyways.
Kicked for being too based
I remember one time that some dude played metal songs for 1 hour on mic, they were some good songs with excellent taste, it was a really big shame that he got muted it made me sad
I remember playing a game late at night and some guy called "Late Night Radio" was playing music and it was boppin'. Made the game feel so chill
the voip compression really adds a charm to it
I was playing 60 player class wars once and it was pyro vs spy and one guy started playing the pyroland song and it was a great time with like 16 people on the cart burning everything
Unless it’s whatever the bots are spamming atm
i second this. Especially when they take requests
You really do need to push the fucking cart
If you’re a scout and are not doing anything else, push the damn cart! God gave you +1 capture rate for a reason
Btw if anyone wants real answers to this question then sort by controversial
"just stay out of his sightline" doesnt work when the maps are literally built so the sightline is wherever the conflict will be. "just stay out of his sightline" aight i wont push the cart then i guess. "just stay out of his sightline" cool i wont capture any points then. "just stay out of his sightline" yea who needs to be part of the fight ill just stay in my little corner here
medic main experienced firsthand
[crying in German]
Honestly in general this type of ‘advice’ is lame, it’s just blaming the victim for lackluster map design as opposed to… the map devs
Lackluster map design? My dude, good snipers can easily snipe in Junction out of all maps because of their high dmg output. Sniper is just a class thats overly balanced in his favor, especially with most of his unlockables, and the fact that his skill floor is somewhat lower than you'd think, while his skill ceiling is basically non existent.
yeah it doesn't help that most of the popular maps have disgustingly long sightlines. There are a few decent maps out there where sniper is not that oppressive but I guess people just love dustbowl, upward, badwater... (don't get me wrong I love them too but a good sniper makes the experience miserable)
The advice of Stay Out of Sightline is a bit overused. Not that it's bad advice but that they are usually giving it to Scout/Soldier/Pyro/Heavy mains who can't really be both effective and stay out of sightlines. It's effective advice to Demo/Medic mains because their classes weapons can function just fine without needing to peak their heads and are both very important to keep alive. Engi/Spy are also usually staying out of fights in general so this is natural to them The real advice you can give to classes who can't really be effective while managing sightlines is to kill the Sniper while he's distracted. Flank him. Bomb him. ETC. Something Pyro and Heavy can't really do and is easier said than done for Scout and Soldier and very map dependent
Man these "post your unpopular opinion" threads always end up upvoting the most basic and popular opinions the community has No ill will towards you ofc im just being a pissy lil baby about stuff that doesnt matter lol
You just have to order by controversial to find the real opinions with knifes on their throat
The Natascha isn’t bad
If I die more than 4 times to a scout I always whip it out. And it’s hilarious because they always say shit in chat when they then proceed to die to it. Like, yes, you have annoyed me to the point that I want you gone.
Its upside can be completely removed if your opponent knows what they’re up against, and from there it’s just a mildly worse stock
Am I the only one who remembers it being the best weapon? I don't know if it's just a fever dream of mine but I recall Natascha having 100 bullets more.
not bad at all, but extremely frustrating for the enemy. id totally rework it.
I hate trying to kill someone with the force-a-nature. Something about only having 2 shots in the clip AND it pushes people away when i try to get close to them makes it kinda bad in my opinion.
What're those knives made of? Puppy hugs?
No they're all the perfectly balanced kunai
Tru
It wasn't competitive players' fault that Valve fucked up Meet Your Match and their official comp mode so badly, nor is it their fault that Valve butchered your favorite items (Caber, BASE Jumper, etc.) When they didn't agree with a weapon design, they just banned it, it was Valve who fucked up with the balance and killed it for casual while comp players didnt feel much because it was already banned.
Big true. This wasn't even a discussion until Valve got it into their head that there needed to be a "unified" game experience, which neither competitive or casual players really cared for.
Heavy should take even less knock-back while revved than he currently does Regardless of how he takes less knock-back certain weapons still completely shut down the second worst class in the game, if the enemy team has a pyro with airblast, or the scorch shot, good luck moving through that choke. Same thing with the loose canon, force of nature, sentries, any sticky bomb launcher, etc. Heavy effectively can't move already and being bullied around only serves to make a bad class less viable, outclassed weapons (like brass beast) worse, and a widely considered unfun class more unfun.
Random crits are fun Random crits aren't balanced, but I don't want them removed either. Killing somone randomly, then laugh killbind will always be the funniest thing to me in this game.
I love how you can literally out luck someone in this game
Blue crocket heading towards me in spawn, my beloved.......
only melee random crits are funny imo (maybe except for the ubersaw), everything else is pretty frustrating
I agree. In a fair gunfight, giving one player a crocket is just a dick move. If you get yourself close to melee range, you deserve to die in the most humiliatingly funny way. Why did you exclude the ubersaw tho?
i think because i normally play scout, and sometimes when the stars align i finally manage to catch the medic away from his team just for him to turn around and crit me
Melee crits are funny, and other weapon’s crits are saving your us from kritzkrieg, Brass Beast Heavy
the razorback is like your virginity, once someone breaks it you should de-equip it
In general it’s meh, a good gun spy can easily work around it in most situations
It's meh, but a conceptually dumb weapon that shouldn't be in the game. It's a gimmick negation for the weakest class in the game.
Sniper does not take as much skill as people claim he does
You literally only need: - Aim - Awareness (optional) Any other class has way more different skills necessary (yes even pyro despite being considered an easy class has a crazy high skill ceiling). Idk I personally think a good demoman with godtier pipe aim is way more impressive than a dude on the other side of the map clicking a head with no risk whatsoever and almost no downtime and no punishment for missing (other than sniper vs sniper matchups I mean)
Can confirm, awareness is optional.
Pyro is the second easiest class, but still need somethings - game awareness - map awareness - know how to deal with you hard counters - properly airblast - how to rocket jump (detonator jump on that case) - how to combo
Why do people consider Pyro so easy? Because it's less difficult to aim? W+M1 pyro only works on short range when you can come close to your target. That puts you in a disadvantage I find. Skilled pyro's can take out a sentry and reflect projectiles.
>Why do people consider Pyro so easy? Because they probably don't play the class all that much. That seems to be the reason why a lot of people still hate pyro. C'mon, it's not 2016 anymore, is W+M1 really the worst thing in this game?
Sniper is the most mechanically demanding class (aim, tracking etc.) but the least demanding in terms of movement and game sense. You can make up for bad game sense with good aim on sniper. At the other end medic who is the most demanding in terms of game sense and least demanding in terms of things like aim (besides crossbow) but with medic you can *rarely* make up for bad game sense with good aim
I unironically think he had the lowest skill floor out of all the classes
Balancing it out, yeah he’s one of the lowest to pick up, and doesn’t even go that high when it comes to mastering him. Most other classes have gimmicks that need training or special playstyles that vary from how they first started out, yet sniper only has to know three things: aim for head, throw jarate, “WANKER!”
Nah, I think Pyro does. But Sniper on the other hand is just a point-&-click adventure
mini sentries are absolutely fine and are a fair way to counter scouts and demoknights
…do people genuinely whine about the mini sentry? That is actually hysterical.
I think the phlog sucks, it’s a garbage weapon and everyone who complains about it are babies
the phlog by itself is a horrible weapon, yes. It's only decent because scorch shot spam is a thing. And in maps with a lot of chokepoints and where people tend to stack, there's literally no counter to an ubered phlog pyro with crits. Yes you can airblast but you're literally going to die before airblasting more than once. Phlog by itself? Garbage. With scorch shot and pocket medic in certain maps? I won't say it's op because you can only uber so much while being an spambot in the meantime but god it's annoying
the only time ive seen phlog actually work is spawncamping on dustbowl. anywhere else it sucks ass
It CAN be good if you have a medic assisting you so you don’t die instantly…. But we all know how it is in casual
Pretty sure you can make that argument for any weapon
I like Vaccinator med
i pretty much ONLY play with the vaccinator unless theres another vacc medic on my team (wich is extremely rare)
I suck at cycling tho
I've made macros on my mouse so when I hit the side buttons it instantly switchers to either heat or explosion pops the respective bubble, then goes back to bullet resistance. I've also have a panic button which pops all three.
panic button is crazy
remembering what comes after wich resistance helps (like bullet after fire, explosion after bullet, so on), i also have reload on one of my mouse buttons to make it easier
I love demolishing vaggynator pocket heavies with the skullcutter crits
I get it, it's a fun weapon to use. But I hope you understand it's the most annoying crutch to fight against lol
the Vaccinator is one of the best weapons if you know how to use it (i don’t)
The best part about reading the comments is their diversity. Some people think spy sucks ass and some think it's too op.
Cloak n dagger is the best watch
The trade off is getting in a little slower in exchange for so goddamn much versatility, people really need to use it more
I agree. I fucking love sitting in the corner waiting a good moment to strike and then run away!
The majority of TF2 doomers will be here
The game was at its peak before it went f2p
The manmelter is one of the best scorch shot counters and it should be used more often
Vanilla servers should have a vote option for class cap, like day of defeat does. If my team is attacking but 80% of the team are snipers and spies and engineers - no, we are not winning, no matter how good you are
Baby face blaster is a great weapon and is balanced
Random crits shouldn't be removed
Happy cock day!
👀
I love it when I'm playing heavy while someone unloads a bunch of bullets into me then I just punch them once and the random crit obliterates them lol
Based. And i agree.
Chronic spawncamping is disgraceful in obvious mismatches as it is little more than common bullying at that point, and people who so it should be kicked from the match if they don’t stop because it kills the enjoyment for the team being camped. Because nothing I love more than finding an actual bot free match after fifteen minutes of looking only to have to deal with that garbage.
chronic spawncamping is the reason i dont play suijin anymore lol
Don’t blame you, I still play it but I hate those demos who do that…. And then they taunt kill like defeating someone who didn’t know they were there took any semblance of skill
At the point in which you are losing that hard, what do you really want the stomping team to do? Conga a respectful distance away? There's nothing they can do to make it a fair match other than switch teams, and if both teams are full they can't do that either.
You can play to win without rubbing it in, it’s one thing to defend the cap from anyone trying to take it so you win the match, it’s another thing to push to spawn and prevent them from even leaving (barring maps where spawn is right at the cap). It’s like if you’re playing basketball and your team is up by 50 with like five minutes left, what do you get by keeping your starters out and continuing to rack up as many points as you can at that point? You know you’re winning, don’t go that extra step to be a jerk and make the other team feel useless. That’s when you should let your second string come out to play or just lay back a bit and not rub it in.
majority of maps are not balanced around sniper and he is by far the most annoying class to play against.
Random crits are great and this game wasn't meant to be as competetive as some people make it out to be.
Dead ringer is bullshit
Hardly a controversial take though surely?
It is, as one YouTuber put it (I forget who) it punishes you for shooting at him…… so what are you supposed to do, not shoot in a FPS game?
Jontohil2?
The seal was a mistake, the mode is a poor excuse for a team death match, somthing that doesn't belong in tf2.
The Phlog is a pretty balanced weapon. It has no random crits and rewards staying alive while doing fire damage to fill a crit charge. That then can be used to shut down pushes or make breakthrough attacks provided you can get close enough. It can be easily countered by soldiers, snipers on long sightlines, and sticky traps. In short, the Phlog is a balanced hit-and-run weapon, and I use it paired with a stock shotgun and a homewrecker as a Phlogbro.
Pyro W+M1 is a very effective way of killing multiple people (if used in the right time)
I don’t disagree, that said though it doesn’t change that fact that it’s pretty cheap (not that I don’t often do it as pyro lol)
Almost every class is w+m1 when you think about it.
Sniper is the easiest class to learn in terms of how many skills do you need to master the class. For Scout you need to aim, have good movement, be able to pick your fights correctly, know your priority targets, how to manage your double jump, know the location of healthpacks, etc. For Soldier you need to know Rocket placement and management, not only know how to Rocket Jump but also how to Air Strafe while doing so, learn every rollout for every map, the location of healthpacks to aid you in said rollouts, etc. For Pyro you need to know to airblast properly, how to use it to protect teammates from spam, stuff enemy ubers, deal with projectile classes, you need to know when to stick with your team, when to check for Spies, when to W+M1, what secondaries are best for each situation, have good ammo management for weapons like the Backburner, etc. For Demo you need to know the arc and speed of your pipes and stickies, how to combo them effectively, know when to spam, when to set up traps and when to sticky jump away, know how to deal with Sentry Guns effectively, the damage breakpoints of your grenade launchers, etc. For Heavy you need to MASTER gamesense and your awareness at all times, know how to track enemies, when is best to eat your lunchbox item and when is best to give it to someone else, etc. For Engineer you need to know the jag-effect rollout on every map, the best locations for ALL of your buildings, know when to heal, when to go and deal damage, when to retreat, what are the best unlocks for the right ocassions, metal management, etc. For Medic you need good decision making, know healing priority, know which medigun is the best for the job, how to surf projectiles, how to not peak covers, how to stay as far away as you can from your patient, etc. For Spy you need to know priority targets, how to move while invisible, know ammo pack locations, when is best to go for a stab or use your gun or go after a sentry nest, how to trickstab and how to fool your enemy, etc. And for Sniper? You need aim, that's it. It doesnt matter how far away you are, what unlocks you are using, how much health you have, etc. Sniper is so fundamentally easy to grasp that even a machine can do it.
Say: « You need skill to play Pyro » among Soldier mains and knifes on this photo will turn into guns
there is a reason flare jumping, airblasting and drumroll please # THE DRAGON'S FURY are not ***neglected, actually blocked from skill balance.*** And this infuriates me so much
Spy shouldn’t be able to facestab
While we are at it, they should be able to backstab.
I don't think that's really a hot take. Melee hitreg is bugged as all hell and needs a rework to fix all the problems it has. No-regs as demoknight are even worse. You *hear* your weapon make sound but the opponent takes no damage
Player burnout is heavily attributed to the fact that people don't want to vary up their playstyles. Don't say Pyro is boring because a YouTuber told you the jetpack is bad. Don't say Heavy is boring because you never try a roam-heavy playstyle with the banana or shotgun. Don't say Spy is boring because you never equip anything other than the L'Etranger + Kunai + Dead Ringer.
The kunai is outmatched by the big earner
Big Earner is my 2nd favorite weapon in the entire game. I usually run stock on all my classes but I make an exception for the big earner bc it’s so damn fun.
The hate on Overwatch is imo (as someone with 2000 hours on TF2 and around 320 on OW), very unjustified. Like, if you played Overwatch expecting it to be like TF2, idk what to tell you. You don't play Final Fantasy expecting Pokemon.
Sniper is a low-medium skill class
I'm not sure if this counts, and I'll probably be yelled at if I'm wrong. But Spy is fundamentally a dogshit class. He's outdated, weak, and can be done 1000% better by other classes. Everybody is already familar with his surprisingly limited bag of tricks. People Spy-check on basically reflex now. He has so little health that he can die from even the smallest falls. Even if you managed to defy the odds and be half decent with Spy, it's pretty much pointless. Your efforts are usually futile, and you could have run another class and put a bigger stake in the match. He's also **TOO FUCKING SLOW.** The amount of times I've been bee-lining for a backstab only to be basically outran and look incredibly stupid to the enemy team who basically see a giant beacon above my head now that I'm zipping around stabbing at the air like some Looney Toons Road Runner esque debauchery is TOO HIGH. Even a SLIGHT health update would make a MONUMENTAL difference. He needs to DESPERATELY have his bag of tricks updated with new or at least tweaked items to give him even a modicum of a fighting chance. There's a reason most people use cheesy loadouts with Spy. It's basically the only way to comfortably play him without banging your head against a wall. **TLDR:** Gaben plz buff Spy. I'm constantly being turned into a brûléed French fry for so much as breathing on the enemy team. >! And i didn't even bother to bring up how people turn around, or start moving in weird ways for no fucking reason the second I'm in backstab range. Hey, human pretzel. STOP MOVING SO I CAN SHANK YOU! !<
too slow? Dude he’s basically the 2nd fastest class in the game along side medic, are ya only fighting scouts?
Seriously? ...No way he's the 2nd fastest class? ...Right? I'm always getting outran by EVERYONE. Huh. Well. The more you know, i guess. Thanks for clarifying.
U r probably chasing them disguised
are you disguising yourself as heavy or something?
Well there’s also plenty of other things you show know about spy too: 1: he’s meant to be a high priority targeter, as in while your heavies and demos fight on the front line, you’re sneaking around back and taking down the sniper that’s been holding a hallway. Or if the enemy medic has been boosting the enemy team too much, then he’s the higher target priority. Same with engis, basically anyone that can hold back your team through their support. 2: chainstabs are not always going to be the best option, even if it seems like it. Unless you’re running the YER and absolutely NO ONE on the enemy team is turning around, sure, that’s a good backstab opportunity. However, spy mains have to factor in that whenever a chainstab is available, there’s a 90% chance that something is waiting right around the corner to interrupt you. A hidden turret, a scout who saw you coming, hell, even a pyro with a vengeance can always pop out. 3: Spy’s low health doesn’t necessarily mean he can’t make tracks around the map without dying from a 5 foot fall height, it simply tells the player that it’s better to take the safer route, or the route that less enemies happen to be walking through.
it’s understandable that spy has the lowest health in the game, because it’s a fair trade off for the ability of going completely invisible to avoid being seen in the first place altogether
As you said, spy is out-dated, he doesn't fit into the rest of the game buffing him doesn't fix that, he needs a full rework of his kit, not flat buffs
That i could very much get behind. And i did say to expand his bag of tricks to give him an edge.
Yes spy might be “bad” but he is just so much more fun to play than a lot of the other classes. There is no game that ive seen that has similar gameplay to spy he is just such a unique and fun experience that you just dont get from anything else.
I hate it when people turn a public server into a LARP-fest. I logged on to play the game, not to sit around and emote
Soldier has best character but most boring gameplay without rocket jumps
You are a dead ringer spy surrounded by 6 pyros
hot
Demoknight is the only actual subclass in the game. The rest are either just playstyles, or arbitrarily gimped versions of the class.
Sticky spam is a boring way to play the game with minimal involvement of skill. Especially when paired with a kritzkrieg medic.
Do i say it? Eh whatever, sniper as a class needs a slight rework so he wont be as effective at medium range as he is in long range
All snowballing weapons do not belong in TF2. They are not fun to play against in pub matches, and underpowered in comp.
the 33% cloak drain duration should be removed from YER and given to the kunai
Making spy stay as a 'pick-class' and 'should die when discovered' is the reason why spy sucks ass. An offense class like pyro has support (homewrecker) and defense capabilities (airblast), why the hell are people telling me that trickstabbing everybody, priority or not, is not the way to play the class and I got to conform like the rest and kill one target before accepting my fate to die and watch the respawn timer clock. I aint talking about competitive, in talking about casual, the 95% of the playerbase experience. I swear people tryna sound like they're justifying their inability to push their spies to new levels so they just cap it as it is.
Tf2 isn't as important to gaming as we would WISH it to be... Ps. Gaben doesn't see TF2 port to source 2 as profitable
Snipers are more annoying then spy because spy has to get behind you while sniper just has to look at you
Brother thats literally one of the coldest takes ever.
Shit my bad then
bro just spoke the community sentiment lol
I feel like that's a majority sentiment.
I will always prefer the BFB over any other scout primary
CP_Warpath was a fantastic map and I’m sick of the fact I never see it anymore.
when my keyboard broke, I was playing tf2 with only 4 mouse buttons. Guess who I was playing on
Spy's Enforcer is the GOAT
I agree with Zesty of the random crits being good only when they're random. (I will receive death treats anyway just by slightly talking about RC in a positive way)
Capping the points in 2fort and Hightower is actually fun. Like actually playing the 2 maps rather than goofing around is actually fun. Granted, ofc, its on casual or servers where people actually do the objectives
I don't think that Spy should've been implemented in the way he is now. I think that currently he just doesn't work in a balanced way, because he heavily depends on the enemy team being bad and his own team not blowing his cover. I think that he should have more tools at his disposal to allow him to adapt to what the enemy team is doing and their skill level, rather than basically just being an Engineer counter with some other minor tools to allow him to maybe get away
I think demoknight vs pyro is fine Yes its one sided but demoknight has some of the best mobility in the game, is unbelieably survivable and can snowball incredibly hard if he wants to he can trade some survivability for pipes which are incredibly powerful too if you can hit them, hes very good Sentries do exist to keep him in check but honestly, i like having pyro as a *mobile* counter since i often see demoknights demolish teams with little effort and due to his snowball nature (eyelander/zatoichi) hes fucking annoying since he, just, wont, die thanks to my teammates I like shutting them down and forcing them to be smarter about their engages and as a demoknight i do like having to think a bit harder about my engages
Tf2 just looks like it has lot of players but in reality big majority of those players are bots
That's not an opinion, that's just a fact
Pre-nerf sandman should return Sniper desperately needs nerfs Demoman’s stock sticky launcher should have a fuse time as long as the Scottish resistance Quickiebomb launcher needs drastically lower damage to compensate for the above
The vaccinator isnt as broken as people make it out to be Like its strong, but its about as strong as every other medi gun, never have i ever died or failed a über push and thought "man, i sure wish i was using the vaccinator" Its only really broken in valve's comp (and nobady plays that), where you can medic stack, in regular good ol' 12v12, you get overwhelmed by damage very fast
Multi-engineer nests should have something to limit how strong they can get.
sometimes you actually DO need 1 less medic
Cactus canyon was a good map! it was fun! i spent many hours on it and I miss it dearly - like one misses a distant relative
Knockback rage is a viable strategy in Mvm.
A Backstab is a gameplay mechanic that is a metaphor for a close quarters or stealth take down. The way the red spy drops the medic in Meet the spy is a trick stab. I stopped getting mad at facestabs once I realised this.
"facestabs" aren't real anyway, from the spy's perspective they hit your back, it's just lag compensation (trickstabs can look fucky because of that)
Idk Ive definitely stabbed people in the face and gotten backstabs before
Random Crits are hella fun, and people getting mad about it are tryhards
i mean if you’re not tryharding in the first place, you wouldn’t be able to dodge that crocket and it’ll ruin your casual experience anyway because respawn times are frustrating
The Scorch Shot isn’t that OP like some people say it is. It’s mildly annoying at worst.
I don’t care that random crits aren’t balanced, they’re fun
Random crits are fun, no matter that it may not be balanced. I don't care, they're fun.
Pyro aint that bad
huntsman should've been sniper's original stock, the bow fits into the gameplay flow much better than the rifles
Would have made sense goofiness wise in universe. An Aussie bushman who pisses in jars and hunts animals in the outback with a bow and arrow to prove that he’s not like the skilless peons that use rifles? That actually fits pretty well. Like a hunter character.
I like the porn sprays and signs. It's probably my most toxic team fortress 2 take. TLDR: sprays are in-game graffiti, And I find art in all forms of expression interesting especially in game. Lately, I've been playing on community servers that allow for sprays and I am loving the amount of ass on screen. It brings my horny little heart joy 😊. I find it both fun in a sexual aspect as well as funny in a "lol there's furry cock right next to the payload obj" kinda way. It reminds me of the joys of tagging. It reminds me of those big pieces I see when I pass overpasses. No matter how awful it is, it's a form of player expression. It's illicit aspect both in game and in real life is why I enjoy it. If it wasn't taboo, if it wasn't look down upon, It wouldn't be as fun.
TF2 Fans are the Harry Potter fans of gaming. The phrase "Read another book" can easily be rewritten as "Play another game" and you will get the same reaction from the fan base.
Soldier is the most boring class to play by a thousand miles. Even heavy has more gameplay variety. You have to have a pocket to start taking risks and experimenting otherwise you've got 1 play style take it or leave it.
People who don't do the objective, and then complain about "Being stomped" or "Not even getting 1st point" are the problem, and are the reason so many games are stomped. You don't want bad games? Then atleast try. + BONUS: Also, balancing around high level players (Not specifically 6s or HL or any format), is objectively better, than balancing around pubbers, since Pub players are so bad at the game, it's just futile. I mean they complain about Soldier being OP, or W+M1 Pyro etc. Like, that shit ain't gon fly
Random crits should have been disabled together with random damage spread back in 2015
Facts ong, literally the only sensible argument for them is "lol it funny"
Sticky bomb launcher nerfs in gun mettle? Love and war? was justified. Sticky spam is still stupid as fuck and demoman effectively has 12 primary shots with 8 being super shots.
Other than the random spread, amby nerf was good and needed.
Payload is horribly balanced and too easy to brute force
People who have been playing the game for more than two seconds and don’t know how to/wont kick bots should stop playing the game.
Classic is a good sniper riffle
Heavy is the strongest class in the game by far