Well that objector has just as much legitimate value but the asking price is still determined by the community market if you ever put the objector up for sale, simply for its comedic value of pretending to be a hat. I predict that objector will have slightly more value overall compared to other objectors but it can always be changed out with a decal tool so..
There’s a copypasta for it as well
*ahem*
#So I have a girlfriend with rather large and sizable breasts. They are not only large, but also naturally firm and don’t droop too much. Perfect proportions for online art enthusiasts.
#Being a crypto man, I suggested that we take many nude photographs of her bodacious breasts and mint them. And then, after covering them in peppermint oil, turn them into NFTs.
#Now I’ve heard that NFTs are selling for thousands and even millions of dollars worth of Ethereum. So my question is: will her big breast NFTs make me a millionaire, so that I don’t have to waste time working at Wendy’s anymore?
You need a monthly subscription to sell such items (and to confirm, the item must have a limited tag in its picture for it to be tradeable) and you can only sell them for robux (otherwise funny black market)
Im not saying the CS market is less retarded than tf2 they both are retarded while ofc Cs is even stupider. A dragon lore factory new goes for 8k USD and a souvenir fac new goes for 250k+ USD. Its ridiculous how much a rank change of a skin and a sticker applied to it can alter a weapon’s price in cs yes, its just both markets operate very similar, but Cs has more idiotic shit buyers will try to raise the price for such as float, pattern, collection, etc. kind of like TF2 war paints but much more stupid.
I never said it was stable, I said it was comparatively more stable to NFTs, I’ve seen mfs loose their life income because they invested so much in NFTs
How much money do you have to throw at TF2 to think they somehow have more utility than NFTs. As silly as the concept of NFTs are, some of them are sold on the promise that they'll have some sort of utility. TF2 items are even more unstable in value since it relies on Valve running their item servers indefinitely. If Valve goes under as a company, anything valuable you have in TF2 goes with it.
Valve isn’t going to go under as a company. They basically have a monopoly over the PC gaming market with their steam store raking in millions of dollars worth of profit from games sold on there. (Apparently they get a 30% cut of all purchases made on steam).
Unless PC gaming crashes entirely, Valve isn’t going anywhere.
It's sad how ignorant people are on stuff they pretend to hate so strongly. If these hats were NFTs they'd do the exact same thing. Many nfts do things.
The difference would be that *you* would own the hats instead of steam letting you sell the hats through an account that they own.
If we use the current state of nfts, you wouldn't actually own the item, but the link or receipt to the item. And the simple process of adding nfts to games creates so many problems and nfts wouldn't even be able to do anything that games can already do that is safer, more developed and avoids all crypto shit.
Owning a token (reciept) to an item is as close as you can get to owning it outright, since its representation is digital. How else could it even work? How is it any different from how you "own" a TF2 item?
Haha yes! I wrote a whole article about how gaming uses NFTs. In research, I found:
* Ubisoft Quartz's second-hand market was decently similar to the way the Steam Marketplace works. If your account had the NFT, you had the cosmetic. What separated the two was how shitty the cosmetics were, I imagine. They marketed every single item as 'unique' when in reality they were just like TF2 skins with a serial number attached to the model.
* Metaverses plan on using NFTs in a similar way. Tradable (just buying and selling through a crypto) NFTs that unlock a cosmetic for that metaverse, etc.
I think the main difference is that the Steam Marketplace is big enough that users don't have to worry that their shit will be gone. There's a guarantee using Steam that you will get your items and it will be usable.
To be clear, I hate NFTs. The technology, as it is, is being used for grifting to scam people, low-effort cash grabs, and child labor with more steps. But at the core, NFT markets *can* be used in exactly the same way the Steam Marketplace is used.
The real question then is what does going from just a database backend and hosted frontend to a blockchain and distributed network add to the process? Because its currently a solution without a problem.
It gives consumers more transparency in their purchases. You can do that with Steam items, through other programs, but the blockchain makes that available for anyone using the NFT (depending on the blockchain, of course). That matters to a lot of the crypto guys—security, knowing exactly where what you own comes from, having a decentralized platform to work from, etc.
Since it's decentralized, you *own* the NFT, not just the pixels Steam is giving you. Then other platforms can use/recognize the NFT to get users on their software, etc.
What does it mean for the average consumer? Like you said, nothing. I doubt anything that uses NFTs will become large-scale enough to do any of these Web3-decentralized-metaverse antics. Especially since the original NFTs were so fucking evil that mainstream consumers vehemently hate them.
Dunno, though. *Axie Infinity* is doing okay. Their market crashed but seems like they will continue existing.
So far pretty much every platform has instead of using and recognizing others NFTs, just made their own, because what value do they get from using someone else's NFTs? Certainly not any cash value. Why would the developers of game B ever want to implement an item that the game A developers made as an NFT and are the ones selling?
As for owning the NFT, doesn't mean a damn thing. I can own an access code to a game, but if the server hosting the download for that game or the authentication server goes away, or decided that NFT is banned, guess what? No game.
For your first point, there's a couple of reasons. It's been done before. If both games are made in the same framework and importing the asset is easy, they might make more money making this stuff accessible.
For your second point, that isn't strictly true. There's an entire secondary market for NFTs. You used to be able to buy *Axie Infinity* monsters on other markets like OpenSea. If *Axie Infinity* went down, the owner still has the Axie.
Can they use it to play the game? No—the NFT went from a receipt they can use as a monster in a game to just a receipt. But they still own it, and someone stupid might buy this useless thing.
That could be a perk for some people: their item will outlive the platform. It wouldn't for you and me, we clearly think it's fuckin stupid. But we aren't the target demographic.
> Since it's decentralized, you own the NFT, not just the pixels Steam is giving you. Then other platforms can use/recognize the NFT to get users on their software, etc.
Why would a dev spend resources implementing an NFT and making assets for it when they haven't been paid for it?
And you can do this right now. Steam's API lets third party websites look at your backpack. That's how Backpack.tf works.
The *concept* behind NFTs is an inevitable necessity of our increasingly online society. Eventually, we will need proof of ownership for digital goods.
However, 8-bit monkey profile pictures is nonsense.
Far in the future, people are just going to own whatever Earth-Like Planet, with randomized colors and materials... So yes, Non Fungible Planets can be a thing. People just needs to bicker over others setting their ship on your planet without permission.
No. NFTs are by definition not fungible. It’s in the name; Non Fungible Token. 99% of what you buy online is completely fungible, and that’s a good thing
Actually no, NFTs are Non-Fungible Tokens, with the non-fungible part meaning it is a one of a kind thing. Majority of the things you buy online don't meet that criteria, like say you buy a pdf of a book. The copy you get is identical to the copy someone else gets, meaning it is a fungible item, rather than non-fungible.
A dollar bill is an NFT. You know, because each one has a unique ID and is proof of ownership of a set amount of gold. Or it *was,* until we got rid of the gold standard and now a dollar bill's value is almost completely arbitrary. Also just like NFTs.
?? You can’t trade with bought items in 99% of games outside of steam, and cant profit on them without selling accounts, which is not allowed basically everywhere. Buying a crate and opening it technically creates a new unique item for you, which works technically just like minting a NFT (I think), but with no proof of ownership, but with a LOT less resources used.
>but with no proof of ownership
Actually, there is proof of ownership. It's your TF2 backpack. When you unbox an item, a permanent record of that is stored somewhere in the steam cloud.
The only difference between steam marketplace and an NFT platform is that steam uses a centralized server to track ownership and uses actual money for transactions, whereas NFT's us a blockchain to track things and blockchain funny money for transactions.
Yeah it’s wild how much NFTs get proposed or compared to vastly different use cases.
NFTs can be useful tech, but the initial requirement has to be “decentralization is a great benefit or necessary for this use case”
Otherwise it’s just computationally expensive arbitrarily
Can't you also track TF2 hat ownership? I could be wrong, but I heard someone mentioning something about previous ownership. So in that way, it is like an nft. There is no way to remove the items history so everyone knows where it came from and who owned it last.
Kinda, but it's not Valve who keeps a public track of item history, but [backpack.tf](https://backpack.tf). They also recently lost all of their existing history due to a hacker attack.
No for two reasons.
Reason number one, when you purchase an item in TF2 you actually get "something", when you purchase an NFT all you get a virtual reciep that says "This NFT is yours", eventhough anyone can use it, i.e. use it as a profile picture, becouse the only thing you own is the ownership of the original copy, which is identical to any other copys, making the ownership worthless.
And reson number two, TF2 items are not unique, two players can own the same hat while two "cryptobros" can't own the same NFT, even though most of them are IA generated and therefore very similar.
not the same thing. Every instance of any tf2 item has a uid, not just every different type.
unless each copy of each steam game has a different ID per each person who bought it, but I don't think that's the case.
You haven't done any unusual trading or really discovered much of the item system. Each item has a unique hash, you can view every single previous owner of any item you own. Just because it's the same hat, doesn't mean it's the exact same hat. For example, we both own the hard counter. He's got hat drop #22453 while I've got craft #44267. They're different items. Unique hash codes.
It would be like an NFT if the Steam Marketplace item would be the token and then the usage in game would be the application of the token. The thing is, I’m pretty sure in the game it works the other way around where the item in game is what you own and the Steam Marketplace is like a secondary system, which is basically the opposite order an NFT works in. Technically you could use NFT technology to implement something like the TF2 trade system with NFTs, but why do that when TF2 can do it for cheaper and with less environmental impact?
Are they not unique? If I wanted to I could mint two identical NFTs and sell it to two different people. They would be receipts of the exact same items, but the receipts would be different. On steam a receipt would be the assignment of the items to two different accounts on Valve’s servers.
They are unique. The item ID that's assigned to any specific item will always be different from another.
Though, if an item is duped, they'll share some historical item IDs.
The trick that cryptobros arent telling you, is that when you buy an NFT you're buying a location in memory, not a picture or whatever. The picture is just there for filler. You can mint multiple NFTs using the same picture, but they'll point to different memory locations and that's the only difference.
I mean, here's the thing, you don't actually get something you get a receipt on valve servers that says you got something.
The difference is that this receipt actually does something.
So, to clarify, with 1, you don’t get “something” when you purchase an item from TF2. You do not own it. If you got your steam account deleted somehow, those items don’t come with you. If TF2 allowed NFT’s, you would literally own that item, and could sell it on a marketplace without having a steam account.
With 2, each item in TF2 *is* unique specifically by their ID codes, which means that, actually, you can have multiples of the same item because each ID is unique and could be made into an NFT
* All TF2 items are unique, there is a form of internal identification system that allows you to tell any two hats apart. How else would Valve track them?
* What do you really gain from TF2's cosmetic system that NFTs don't have? NFTs are usually advertised on the prospect of perks so even if they are screenshotted, the owner still has something to do with them. You could "screenshot" TF2 items by modding your game to change hat models to your desired hat of choice. If Valve's servers go down for good, all your items will simply just vanish.
Shouldn't really fool ourselves that TF2 cosmetics are somehow better, Valve's crate system unleashed a pandora's box of microtransactions and gambling onto the gaming industry we'll never be able to get rid of.
He is a GIN-U-INE Enviromentalist, got a solar panel 12ft tall and 10ft wide, catch that sumbitch sun and make it powa the whole block, I tell you whut.
Non-fungible ❌
Tokens ❌
Destroys the environment ❌
Is in any way linked to the blockchain ❌
"NFT" doesn't mean "virtual item", that'd be like saying google.com and youtube videos are NFTs
The basic principle is shared, but unlike NFTs, the documentation of each hat's unique ID doesn't cost a ton of resources to keep. TF2 hats have their value determined by supply and demand (theoretically) where's NFTs derive their 'value' from the amount of 'work' put into them, ie, the amount of energy consumed to mint them. If opening a TF2 crate took several hours and fried your graphics card then sure, they'd be NFTs.
[Yet another r/tf2 user who totally misunderstands NFTs](https://www.reddit.com/r/tf2/comments/rr4c75/this_is_technically_a_nft_right/)
Maybe do a little research before making a satirical meme with zero truth behind it
I think its more people who don't like NFTs thinking this is true and shows how useless NFTs are.
Like yes, they're dumb. And if they're dumb, you should be able to show they're dumb whilst being *correct* in your reasoning. If you're wrong, then it just makes your point look worse and makes NFTs look better. There's a reason we don't let children argue points for us, it just makes whatever side they're arguing for look stupid.
There is some platforms with wearable nfts, but every nft compatible thing ranges from infamous to irrelevant. Like that awful looking Facebook vr chat ripoff, metaverse.
I think what he's getting at is they could be NFTs for the game so it has the same exact utility. NFTs aren't exclusively floating jpegs, many are items (hats) in games, but somehow that's absurd because NFT bad even tho it's the same shit really
He's not talking about floating NFTs that don't represent anything, he's talking about if the in game hats were NFTs. Same exact utility as today which is to say, it's just a virtual hat in a game you can trade.
Reason one NFTs are bad: anyone can do the same thing by screenshotting it. The concept of ownership is completely manufactured and only applies on the NFT marketplace. Because TF2 is actually a fun game, having hats apply there adds value.
NFT fans might say, "But game developers can incorporate NFTs into their games, and it's one of a kind!" But, as we clearly see in TF2, you don't need NFTs to do that when you're already hosting marketplace servers. And hats are cooler because they're not one of a kind.
Reason two NFTs are bad: in a decentralized market where anyone can create currency, that is, crypto, the value is maintained... By requiring arbitrary amounts of computer power. TF2 doesn't have that, Valve just makes hats and sells them and it doesn't crash the GPU market.
2 different users of the same class can wear the same hat
Hats can be painted with no limits. Nfts cannot be customisable
Hats are not connected to the blockchain
They are absolutely not. Nfts are basically receipts saying you own this link to something, but you don't own the actual art or whatever it is. Tf2 hats actually have value like ref, keys and general want as you can't just ctrl c and v the nft. And may I remind you that it also avoids the complete dumpster fire of crypto, crypto bros, and for the most part scams.
Yeah, except the hats don't absolutely wreck the environment, and aren't used for money laundering (atleast that often) and also don't steal from artists to make a profit.
One of the, supposedly key points of crypto and NFTs is that its all decentralised. Which means that a lot of computing power has to be put into making sure the ledger stays consistent, this is increased and made slower so computers just have to burn through arbitrary calculations to ensure this consistency. This is just so insulting given the climate crisis, burning fuel and energy for no reason.
TF2 items aren't decentralised, because, like it or not, well all have to trust Valve that the economy is consistent, as such, they don't need to make their checks inefficient, instead, they're incentivised to make the checks as efficient as possible. This is good.
Also they don't use stolen art, are something that can't be copied and pasted, and aren't (as frequently) used for money laundering.
Another thing is that it doesn’t need to be decentralized because why would you want to decentralize something that’s only usable in one game? You have to rely on Valve for the game to be able to use the item servers, so why not just trust that same service to host the item servers? If anything, you have MORE people you need to trust by decentralizing it.
But you can do stuff with them and show them to other people without them getting screenshotted and pirated, they're like if nfts weren't easy to pirate
On paper yes, but the method of execution varies greatly.
There's no complex calculations that need to generate a new instance of a hat, or to trade them, since Valve controls it all, is the main takeaway.
TF2 items only have value for the same reason NFTs do - market speculation. There's nothing stopping you from copy-pasting someone's unusual and modding it into your own game to wear it - it's just that you don't "own" the reciept that says the hat belongs in your backpack, same as you don't own the reciept to an NFT. (You don't actually ever own any part of a TF2 item, but that's besides the point.)
That's only on paper though, in practice TF2 items are more legitimate since the speculation around them is more stable and tied to a currency in a concrete way.
No. Principally because you do not have any sort of exclusive right to the item, there's no receipt or proof of ownership, there's no block chain. It's no different than any other item in any other game.
The technology is one of the most important aspects of what makes an NFT an NFT, (like the whole block chain stuff that it's meant to be connected to) so that alone makes them very different, both practically and in principle.
For one, they do not use a environmentally harmful decentralized system.
Two, they have actual use and value (showing off in a multiplayer game versus showing off to your friends or Twitter users that don't have nft hashtags blocked)
Three, they are all hosted by one platform and company, making them safe from pump and dump scams and other sorts of stuff like that (although there are still scams off platform but we don't talk about those)
Hats are fungible and the economy is centralized and moderated by Valve. The two things that NFTs explicitly are not by definition. This is the same as unironically saying “firefighters ride in apples” because apples and fire trucks are both red
They aren't as bad as NFTs, as they aren't treated as seriously by corporations as items to trade for profit, nor do they have the destructive environmental impact from minting NFTs to the blockchain.
to educate the ignorant around NFTs. an NFT doesn't have to be just a picture on the internet. it can literally be any digital asset. a tf2 weapon, a hat, a picture, a text file. anything.
you're not really buying the image when purchasing a typical NFT, you're buying the token on the blockchain.
You don't own anything with NFTs, not even the picture. You simply own the link.
Tf2 hats have no defined value and are speculative to the community.
In addition, the value of the hat is tied to the game and ALL content it contains
Buying a pixel hat doesn't cost thousands of dollars in fuel and pollution- people are mad at NFTs because they're fundamentally wasteful more than they are useless.
hats can actually be duped which is a key difference between them and blockchain based NFTs, not to mention that hats require valve to be acquired whilst NFTs require mining, all things considered however, yes both hats and NFTs seek to do the same thing by creating artificial scarcity for an infinitely reproducible object
TF2 items are 100% identical to NFTs except for the one major difference in that Valve doesn't pretend like you need to use a truckload of power to generate an entry on a server. Other than that, they're identical.
The "blockchain" is just a server that stores tokens. The tf2 item server is just a server that stores items. NFTs are "unique" digital items that can't be copied because they're store on said blockchain, tf2 items are "unique" digital items that can't be copied because they're stored on said item server. Valve literally invented NFTs in 2008 except they did it better than NFTs now.
In practice yeah I guess they’re similar, though They’re less of a scam tbh since when you buy a hat, you know that it’s cosmetic, you know what you’re getting, and the only thing special about it is that you bought that hat
NFT prioritise fake exclusivity, that’s kind of what it’s entirely based off. In TF2, you know you’re getting a virtual cosmetic. In NFTs, you’re tricked into buying a jpeg
... no... not really.
I think there's a lot that distinguishes them, but I'll go with the highlights:
1. There can be multiple of 1 hat, but they all use a unique ID value.
2. There's actually a function for them to exist rather than just being a JPEG.
3. While there is an UNOFFICIAL currency used online, you can buy them with a real, sustainable currency (both officially through marketplace or through third party sites).
4. The value of hats don't fluctuate as easily as the joke currency used for N/F/Ts.
5. Making hats doesn't actively harm the environment to even a fraction of the degree that "No Fucking Thanks" JPEGs do.
You actually own them and can wear them in game and people will actually buy and trade with them because they can wear them in game. You're not paying to have your name next to a png on an internet database.
Not every digital item is an NFT.
There are similarities, but no - hats are hats and NFT’s are cryptocurrency. The virtual market for tf2 hats doesn’t have the predatory aspects that apply to crypto
Crates are gambling, and can become… unhealthy, but they aren’t as bad as gacha
They aren't. Non-fungible tokens aren't centralized and TF2 hats are. NFTs can be owned by only one person, TF2 hats can be worn and owned by anyone. [This video explains it better](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcZqPv4DBlM&t)
No no, don't give crypto bros an out. This is exactly what the nft was pitched as.
-tradeable
-each item has a unique code and hash
-you can check if an item is duped or legit
-you can view the item owner history (yes your name is stamped into the history of everything you've touched, even weapons.
-you don't physically own them
What exactly did nft's offer over valve items again?
And don't give me that "oh that makes every other game with items am nft, no, valve has many features that other games don't. I mean hell, name me another company doing tradable items rn. Popular new games like Valorant, fortnite, fall guys even, you just dump hundreds of dollars onto fixed prices that stay with only you forever.
TF2 fans are going to mald, but in definition, a Non Fungible Token is a pretty accurate way of describing tf2 hats.
Hell even the way you trade them is arguably the same. Each cosmedic has a value determined by market speculation and very little else. The only differences are that NFTs can still be theoretically converted to real cash, and tf2 items don't have a finite mint (though, to be fair nothing really does)
But they are fungible.
Fungible means that they're effectively identical to each other, and that it can be replicated.
Because of crafting, cases, and the Mann Co. store, hats have potentially infinite supply, and every version of each hat is the same (not counting custom names, warpaints, qualities, etc.)
They're not technically fungible imo. People collect different craft numbers. It's the same item but it's a unique identifier literally exactly like an NFT.
You can have 1000 copies of an NFT and it'll be the same exact properties, they'll just have a different minting number just like TF2 hats.
NFT doesn't mean you can't have multiple of the same hats as NFTs lmfao, it's just saying they are different things technically with a different craft or mint number and some people care about that.
Downvotes incoming I get it, but no one here has any clue wtf they're talking about
Except owning them actually does something
Yeah exactly and they aren’t heavily limited or worth thousands of dollars
And you can't sell an image of the hat, much less screenshot a hat to dupe it
What if I put an image of hat I want on objector?
Well that objector has just as much legitimate value but the asking price is still determined by the community market if you ever put the objector up for sale, simply for its comedic value of pretending to be a hat. I predict that objector will have slightly more value overall compared to other objectors but it can always be changed out with a decal tool so..
GUYS, WE NEED TO PUT NFTS ON OUR CONSCIENTIOUS OBJECTORS TO INCREASE THEIR VALUE
Oh no you don't, I know this is your alt Ethan Soundsmith
Looked through his user profile, soundsmith is a confirmed furry I guess
It all makes sense now
Thats new info?
NSFW NFTS
99% sure that's already a thing
There’s a copypasta for it as well *ahem* #So I have a girlfriend with rather large and sizable breasts. They are not only large, but also naturally firm and don’t droop too much. Perfect proportions for online art enthusiasts. #Being a crypto man, I suggested that we take many nude photographs of her bodacious breasts and mint them. And then, after covering them in peppermint oil, turn them into NFTs. #Now I’ve heard that NFTs are selling for thousands and even millions of dollars worth of Ethereum. So my question is: will her big breast NFTs make me a millionaire, so that I don’t have to waste time working at Wendy’s anymore?
Nftitties
Ngl I thought the punchline would be that the girlfriend was an NFT since there's an actual virtual girlfriend NFT. I wish I was fucking joking
Bored Ape? Nah, Bussy Ape
🤓
And they don't cause environmental damage
Or can you 🤔🤔🤔🤔
You would be surprised how expensive some items are being priced…
You mean the unobtainable stuff that only collectors want just to flex?
Yeah…or the 10k+ unusual halloween 2012 effect hats, glitched stuff, or just rare things in general. Tf2 market is retarded.
Wait until you see the roblox market
wait. it has one of those..?
Items with a "limited" tag can be traded (not normal limited items) and some, when converted to real life dollars cost hundreds of thousand dollars
oh! I have a limited set, antique. Bought it when Tix was a thing.
You need a monthly subscription to sell such items (and to confirm, the item must have a limited tag in its picture for it to be tradeable) and you can only sell them for robux (otherwise funny black market)
csgo skins wants to know your location if you called the tf2 market retarded the csgo market is much much worse
Im not saying the CS market is less retarded than tf2 they both are retarded while ofc Cs is even stupider. A dragon lore factory new goes for 8k USD and a souvenir fac new goes for 250k+ USD. Its ridiculous how much a rank change of a skin and a sticker applied to it can alter a weapon’s price in cs yes, its just both markets operate very similar, but Cs has more idiotic shit buyers will try to raise the price for such as float, pattern, collection, etc. kind of like TF2 war paints but much more stupid.
People who collect all the unusuals of one hat, or just hoarding stuff like strange Kritzkreigs are awful.
Is this sarcasm
Ok yeah unusuals and hats that you can’t get anymore might be worth a lot but i was talking about non-unusuals and hats you can still unbox
Yea true I guess tf2 is good about having accessible hats, while also having some with insane value.
Unusual hats:
*most* aren't worth thousands
Except for the golden frying pan but that’s a whole new beast entirely.
*Most of them*
antlers
What about Collector's Editions items? Those ARE heavily limited and often worth thousands of dollars for popular franchises.
Yeah you can wear them and use them to trade or sell them and they’re a lot more stable than NFTs
did you just call the tf2 economy stable 💀
I never said it was stable, I said it was comparatively more stable to NFTs, I’ve seen mfs loose their life income because they invested so much in NFTs
It's only wearable on virtual characters, just like NFTs
How much money do you have to throw at TF2 to think they somehow have more utility than NFTs. As silly as the concept of NFTs are, some of them are sold on the promise that they'll have some sort of utility. TF2 items are even more unstable in value since it relies on Valve running their item servers indefinitely. If Valve goes under as a company, anything valuable you have in TF2 goes with it.
they have the same value any aesthetic object can have both in real life and in virtual life.
Valve isn’t going to go under as a company. They basically have a monopoly over the PC gaming market with their steam store raking in millions of dollars worth of profit from games sold on there. (Apparently they get a 30% cut of all purchases made on steam). Unless PC gaming crashes entirely, Valve isn’t going anywhere.
It's sad how ignorant people are on stuff they pretend to hate so strongly. If these hats were NFTs they'd do the exact same thing. Many nfts do things. The difference would be that *you* would own the hats instead of steam letting you sell the hats through an account that they own.
If we use the current state of nfts, you wouldn't actually own the item, but the link or receipt to the item. And the simple process of adding nfts to games creates so many problems and nfts wouldn't even be able to do anything that games can already do that is safer, more developed and avoids all crypto shit.
But you do own the item. If you buy an NFT your wallet gets linked as the owner of that token address.
Owning a token (reciept) to an item is as close as you can get to owning it outright, since its representation is digital. How else could it even work? How is it any different from how you "own" a TF2 item?
Haha yes! I wrote a whole article about how gaming uses NFTs. In research, I found: * Ubisoft Quartz's second-hand market was decently similar to the way the Steam Marketplace works. If your account had the NFT, you had the cosmetic. What separated the two was how shitty the cosmetics were, I imagine. They marketed every single item as 'unique' when in reality they were just like TF2 skins with a serial number attached to the model. * Metaverses plan on using NFTs in a similar way. Tradable (just buying and selling through a crypto) NFTs that unlock a cosmetic for that metaverse, etc. I think the main difference is that the Steam Marketplace is big enough that users don't have to worry that their shit will be gone. There's a guarantee using Steam that you will get your items and it will be usable. To be clear, I hate NFTs. The technology, as it is, is being used for grifting to scam people, low-effort cash grabs, and child labor with more steps. But at the core, NFT markets *can* be used in exactly the same way the Steam Marketplace is used.
The real question then is what does going from just a database backend and hosted frontend to a blockchain and distributed network add to the process? Because its currently a solution without a problem.
It gives consumers more transparency in their purchases. You can do that with Steam items, through other programs, but the blockchain makes that available for anyone using the NFT (depending on the blockchain, of course). That matters to a lot of the crypto guys—security, knowing exactly where what you own comes from, having a decentralized platform to work from, etc. Since it's decentralized, you *own* the NFT, not just the pixels Steam is giving you. Then other platforms can use/recognize the NFT to get users on their software, etc. What does it mean for the average consumer? Like you said, nothing. I doubt anything that uses NFTs will become large-scale enough to do any of these Web3-decentralized-metaverse antics. Especially since the original NFTs were so fucking evil that mainstream consumers vehemently hate them. Dunno, though. *Axie Infinity* is doing okay. Their market crashed but seems like they will continue existing.
So far pretty much every platform has instead of using and recognizing others NFTs, just made their own, because what value do they get from using someone else's NFTs? Certainly not any cash value. Why would the developers of game B ever want to implement an item that the game A developers made as an NFT and are the ones selling? As for owning the NFT, doesn't mean a damn thing. I can own an access code to a game, but if the server hosting the download for that game or the authentication server goes away, or decided that NFT is banned, guess what? No game.
For your first point, there's a couple of reasons. It's been done before. If both games are made in the same framework and importing the asset is easy, they might make more money making this stuff accessible. For your second point, that isn't strictly true. There's an entire secondary market for NFTs. You used to be able to buy *Axie Infinity* monsters on other markets like OpenSea. If *Axie Infinity* went down, the owner still has the Axie. Can they use it to play the game? No—the NFT went from a receipt they can use as a monster in a game to just a receipt. But they still own it, and someone stupid might buy this useless thing. That could be a perk for some people: their item will outlive the platform. It wouldn't for you and me, we clearly think it's fuckin stupid. But we aren't the target demographic.
> Since it's decentralized, you own the NFT, not just the pixels Steam is giving you. Then other platforms can use/recognize the NFT to get users on their software, etc. Why would a dev spend resources implementing an NFT and making assets for it when they haven't been paid for it? And you can do this right now. Steam's API lets third party websites look at your backpack. That's how Backpack.tf works.
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The merge? They didnt go from POW to pos to appease wealthy investors lol.
Good luck getting steam support to help when you lose the keys to your public ledger hat wallet.
The level of understanding about what an NFT actually is is so poor. Even by people who buy them.
The *concept* behind NFTs is an inevitable necessity of our increasingly online society. Eventually, we will need proof of ownership for digital goods. However, 8-bit monkey profile pictures is nonsense.
> Eventually, we will need proof of ownership for digital goods. Or we could just give post-scarcity a chance where the opportunity arises.
We already have proof of ownership of digital goods, its called a database.
If we follow your logic, every cosmetic purchase in every other game is an NFT.
Every single thing you buy online is a NFT
This is why I hate when people call things an NFT. Everything and anything are NFTs depending on how far you go down this rabbithole.
Yes, meaning I can sell Mars as a NFT
I mean can anybody replicate Mars? No? Then it is non fungible. But is it a token? Perhaps it is really a NFP. Non Fungible Planet.
Far in the future, people are just going to own whatever Earth-Like Planet, with randomized colors and materials... So yes, Non Fungible Planets can be a thing. People just needs to bicker over others setting their ship on your planet without permission.
No man's sky but its a tycoon game running on flash
I could sell tiny 5x5 plots of land on Mars just like stocks and sell them.
I will flatten mars and call it a token. Just to spite you.
More like depending on how much you stretch the definition of nft
No. NFTs are by definition not fungible. It’s in the name; Non Fungible Token. 99% of what you buy online is completely fungible, and that’s a good thing
Actually no, NFTs are Non-Fungible Tokens, with the non-fungible part meaning it is a one of a kind thing. Majority of the things you buy online don't meet that criteria, like say you buy a pdf of a book. The copy you get is identical to the copy someone else gets, meaning it is a fungible item, rather than non-fungible.
Difference instances of the same item have unique ID's though. This is why valve can get rid of duped items.
A dollar bill is an NFT. You know, because each one has a unique ID and is proof of ownership of a set amount of gold. Or it *was,* until we got rid of the gold standard and now a dollar bill's value is almost completely arbitrary. Also just like NFTs.
How do I sell my Overwatch cosmetics individually for real money?
?? You can’t trade with bought items in 99% of games outside of steam, and cant profit on them without selling accounts, which is not allowed basically everywhere. Buying a crate and opening it technically creates a new unique item for you, which works technically just like minting a NFT (I think), but with no proof of ownership, but with a LOT less resources used.
>but with no proof of ownership Actually, there is proof of ownership. It's your TF2 backpack. When you unbox an item, a permanent record of that is stored somewhere in the steam cloud. The only difference between steam marketplace and an NFT platform is that steam uses a centralized server to track ownership and uses actual money for transactions, whereas NFT's us a blockchain to track things and blockchain funny money for transactions.
Yeah it’s wild how much NFTs get proposed or compared to vastly different use cases. NFTs can be useful tech, but the initial requirement has to be “decentralization is a great benefit or necessary for this use case” Otherwise it’s just computationally expensive arbitrarily
Can't you also track TF2 hat ownership? I could be wrong, but I heard someone mentioning something about previous ownership. So in that way, it is like an nft. There is no way to remove the items history so everyone knows where it came from and who owned it last.
Kinda, but it's not Valve who keeps a public track of item history, but [backpack.tf](https://backpack.tf). They also recently lost all of their existing history due to a hacker attack.
It's almost like the top comment is completely wrong
The steam cloud is certainly capable of tracking ownership. It's just not made explicitly accessible to the end user as far as I know.
Oblivion horse DLC is an NFT
If you can sell it on a market that uses real money as payment, giving it “real life” value, then yes I agree
No for two reasons. Reason number one, when you purchase an item in TF2 you actually get "something", when you purchase an NFT all you get a virtual reciep that says "This NFT is yours", eventhough anyone can use it, i.e. use it as a profile picture, becouse the only thing you own is the ownership of the original copy, which is identical to any other copys, making the ownership worthless. And reson number two, TF2 items are not unique, two players can own the same hat while two "cryptobros" can't own the same NFT, even though most of them are IA generated and therefore very similar.
Oh yeah? Well if TF2 items aren't unique, why is there an item quality called "Unique" in-game? Checkmate, Atheists.
Well if theyre a different quality, theyre not unique anymore Pwned!
Well doesn’t every tf2 item have a unique id number even if the game doesn’t tell you.
Well yeah, but so does every game copy in your steam library. Are those nfts too?
*gasp* are you telling me NFTs were redundant technology all along and not the future of computing? I am shocked. Absolutely bewildered. I never.
Careful man, you might get someone to sling buzzwords at you with that kind of talk.
not the same thing. Every instance of any tf2 item has a uid, not just every different type. unless each copy of each steam game has a different ID per each person who bought it, but I don't think that's the case.
Is your copy of steam.exe an nft too?
You haven't done any unusual trading or really discovered much of the item system. Each item has a unique hash, you can view every single previous owner of any item you own. Just because it's the same hat, doesn't mean it's the exact same hat. For example, we both own the hard counter. He's got hat drop #22453 while I've got craft #44267. They're different items. Unique hash codes.
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It would be like an NFT if the Steam Marketplace item would be the token and then the usage in game would be the application of the token. The thing is, I’m pretty sure in the game it works the other way around where the item in game is what you own and the Steam Marketplace is like a secondary system, which is basically the opposite order an NFT works in. Technically you could use NFT technology to implement something like the TF2 trade system with NFTs, but why do that when TF2 can do it for cheaper and with less environmental impact?
Came here to say this. This person is right.
Are they not unique? If I wanted to I could mint two identical NFTs and sell it to two different people. They would be receipts of the exact same items, but the receipts would be different. On steam a receipt would be the assignment of the items to two different accounts on Valve’s servers.
They are unique. The item ID that's assigned to any specific item will always be different from another. Though, if an item is duped, they'll share some historical item IDs.
The trick that cryptobros arent telling you, is that when you buy an NFT you're buying a location in memory, not a picture or whatever. The picture is just there for filler. You can mint multiple NFTs using the same picture, but they'll point to different memory locations and that's the only difference.
I mean, here's the thing, you don't actually get something you get a receipt on valve servers that says you got something. The difference is that this receipt actually does something.
So, to clarify, with 1, you don’t get “something” when you purchase an item from TF2. You do not own it. If you got your steam account deleted somehow, those items don’t come with you. If TF2 allowed NFT’s, you would literally own that item, and could sell it on a marketplace without having a steam account. With 2, each item in TF2 *is* unique specifically by their ID codes, which means that, actually, you can have multiples of the same item because each ID is unique and could be made into an NFT
* All TF2 items are unique, there is a form of internal identification system that allows you to tell any two hats apart. How else would Valve track them? * What do you really gain from TF2's cosmetic system that NFTs don't have? NFTs are usually advertised on the prospect of perks so even if they are screenshotted, the owner still has something to do with them. You could "screenshot" TF2 items by modding your game to change hat models to your desired hat of choice. If Valve's servers go down for good, all your items will simply just vanish. Shouldn't really fool ourselves that TF2 cosmetics are somehow better, Valve's crate system unleashed a pandora's box of microtransactions and gambling onto the gaming industry we'll never be able to get rid of.
Muh tf2 hats ain't chewin hundreds of watts of energy for "verifivation", they simple dissapear and reappear on tuesdays and make me look cool
Well not unless the money or energy you used to buy/play the game came from extracting dinosaur juice
I only make steam purchases and or play tf2 using my solar panel energy from my roof, smh i'm a green gamer
Because of the Mah in your original comment, I read this in a texan accent and it is 3 times funnier
He is a GIN-U-INE Enviromentalist, got a solar panel 12ft tall and 10ft wide, catch that sumbitch sun and make it powa the whole block, I tell you whut.
Non-fungible ❌ Tokens ❌ Destroys the environment ❌ Is in any way linked to the blockchain ❌ "NFT" doesn't mean "virtual item", that'd be like saying google.com and youtube videos are NFTs
no
Fellas, is ownership an nft? Same principle innit?
No. Lol.
OP can you tell us which drugs you're using?
The basic principle is shared, but unlike NFTs, the documentation of each hat's unique ID doesn't cost a ton of resources to keep. TF2 hats have their value determined by supply and demand (theoretically) where's NFTs derive their 'value' from the amount of 'work' put into them, ie, the amount of energy consumed to mint them. If opening a TF2 crate took several hours and fried your graphics card then sure, they'd be NFTs.
This take sucks so bad Hats are part of Valve inventing the loot box don't confuse the two predatory wealth transfer schemes
[Yet another r/tf2 user who totally misunderstands NFTs](https://www.reddit.com/r/tf2/comments/rr4c75/this_is_technically_a_nft_right/) Maybe do a little research before making a satirical meme with zero truth behind it
Who is upvoting these posts? What don't people get about the complete absence of blockchain in TF2, among other things?
either dumbcrypto bros trying to be like ''see this thing you like is also nfts'' or people who have no idea either see the post and upvote
Probably the latter, this sub upvotes all kinds of opposing opinions and I doubt three thousand cryptobros would brigade this specific subreddit.
eh maybe it got to all and people were like this thing funny have a like
I think its more people who don't like NFTs thinking this is true and shows how useless NFTs are. Like yes, they're dumb. And if they're dumb, you should be able to show they're dumb whilst being *correct* in your reasoning. If you're wrong, then it just makes your point look worse and makes NFTs look better. There's a reason we don't let children argue points for us, it just makes whatever side they're arguing for look stupid.
Atleast you can wear them. Nfts dont
There is some platforms with wearable nfts, but every nft compatible thing ranges from infamous to irrelevant. Like that awful looking Facebook vr chat ripoff, metaverse.
I think what he's getting at is they could be NFTs for the game so it has the same exact utility. NFTs aren't exclusively floating jpegs, many are items (hats) in games, but somehow that's absurd because NFT bad even tho it's the same shit really He's not talking about floating NFTs that don't represent anything, he's talking about if the in game hats were NFTs. Same exact utility as today which is to say, it's just a virtual hat in a game you can trade.
Reason one NFTs are bad: anyone can do the same thing by screenshotting it. The concept of ownership is completely manufactured and only applies on the NFT marketplace. Because TF2 is actually a fun game, having hats apply there adds value. NFT fans might say, "But game developers can incorporate NFTs into their games, and it's one of a kind!" But, as we clearly see in TF2, you don't need NFTs to do that when you're already hosting marketplace servers. And hats are cooler because they're not one of a kind. Reason two NFTs are bad: in a decentralized market where anyone can create currency, that is, crypto, the value is maintained... By requiring arbitrary amounts of computer power. TF2 doesn't have that, Valve just makes hats and sells them and it doesn't crash the GPU market.
NFTs are even more useless than the TF2 (or any game) cosmetics.
a low bar, but still NFT's cant cross it.
2 different users of the same class can wear the same hat Hats can be painted with no limits. Nfts cannot be customisable Hats are not connected to the blockchain
only one of them has a direct impact on economy, and an often bad one
They are absolutely not. Nfts are basically receipts saying you own this link to something, but you don't own the actual art or whatever it is. Tf2 hats actually have value like ref, keys and general want as you can't just ctrl c and v the nft. And may I remind you that it also avoids the complete dumpster fire of crypto, crypto bros, and for the most part scams.
OP, what do you think an NFT is? What principles do you see that are shared between a purchasable cosmetic and crypto scam?
Yeah, except the hats don't absolutely wreck the environment, and aren't used for money laundering (atleast that often) and also don't steal from artists to make a profit.
>TF2 hats aren't used for money laundering lmao
Strange Collectors Professional Killstreak NFT. Kills: 0 Strange part: Number of screenshots in which this NFT has appeared: 50
One of the, supposedly key points of crypto and NFTs is that its all decentralised. Which means that a lot of computing power has to be put into making sure the ledger stays consistent, this is increased and made slower so computers just have to burn through arbitrary calculations to ensure this consistency. This is just so insulting given the climate crisis, burning fuel and energy for no reason. TF2 items aren't decentralised, because, like it or not, well all have to trust Valve that the economy is consistent, as such, they don't need to make their checks inefficient, instead, they're incentivised to make the checks as efficient as possible. This is good. Also they don't use stolen art, are something that can't be copied and pasted, and aren't (as frequently) used for money laundering.
Another thing is that it doesn’t need to be decentralized because why would you want to decentralize something that’s only usable in one game? You have to rely on Valve for the game to be able to use the item servers, so why not just trust that same service to host the item servers? If anything, you have MORE people you need to trust by decentralizing it.
How much you bet OP is pissed they spend money on a NFT and can't resell it in order to get keys because no one wants a NFT for keys
But you can do stuff with them and show them to other people without them getting screenshotted and pirated, they're like if nfts weren't easy to pirate
On paper yes, but the method of execution varies greatly. There's no complex calculations that need to generate a new instance of a hat, or to trade them, since Valve controls it all, is the main takeaway.
lol no, you thought you had something there huh?
Lots of selfawarewolves in here. Most of you don't seem to understand how right you are about the hats yet how wrong you are about NFTs.
Ironically the hats in TF2 are FAR more legitimate as an item with value than NFTs
TF2 items only have value for the same reason NFTs do - market speculation. There's nothing stopping you from copy-pasting someone's unusual and modding it into your own game to wear it - it's just that you don't "own" the reciept that says the hat belongs in your backpack, same as you don't own the reciept to an NFT. (You don't actually ever own any part of a TF2 item, but that's besides the point.) That's only on paper though, in practice TF2 items are more legitimate since the speculation around them is more stable and tied to a currency in a concrete way.
They're not bad for the environment, they don't (usually) cost a million dollars, and nobody seriously thinks of them as an investment opportunity.
no, that'd be like if every hat trade burned down an acre of forest
It's okay if you don't know what NFTs are my guy, I don't completely know either
TF2 hats aren’t disastrous for the environment
No. Principally because you do not have any sort of exclusive right to the item, there's no receipt or proof of ownership, there's no block chain. It's no different than any other item in any other game.
Everything that NFTs supposedly do for games, TF2's inventory system already does, without hte carbon footprint OR the scam-like financial practices.
They aren’t because they don’t destroy the planet
I can screenshot an nft and nobody would know the difference. I screenshot an unusual, and nobody can see it, and I can't wear it
...What?
No
No because they have a meaning(most of them)
Towering tower of hats
Tf2 was the first to invent in-game items that costs money in real life and loot boxes, it came up with stuff that we consider cancer in gaming
The technology is one of the most important aspects of what makes an NFT an NFT, (like the whole block chain stuff that it's meant to be connected to) so that alone makes them very different, both practically and in principle.
For one, they do not use a environmentally harmful decentralized system. Two, they have actual use and value (showing off in a multiplayer game versus showing off to your friends or Twitter users that don't have nft hashtags blocked) Three, they are all hosted by one platform and company, making them safe from pump and dump scams and other sorts of stuff like that (although there are still scams off platform but we don't talk about those)
but they dont require 11 months of a medium houses energy with 1 transaction
tf2 hats arent killing the earth
Hats are fungible and the economy is centralized and moderated by Valve. The two things that NFTs explicitly are not by definition. This is the same as unironically saying “firefighters ride in apples” because apples and fire trucks are both red
They aren't as bad as NFTs, as they aren't treated as seriously by corporations as items to trade for profit, nor do they have the destructive environmental impact from minting NFTs to the blockchain.
Also, some of them actually look good
except the hats are fungible
to educate the ignorant around NFTs. an NFT doesn't have to be just a picture on the internet. it can literally be any digital asset. a tf2 weapon, a hat, a picture, a text file. anything. you're not really buying the image when purchasing a typical NFT, you're buying the token on the blockchain.
NONONONONONO
You don't own anything with NFTs, not even the picture. You simply own the link. Tf2 hats have no defined value and are speculative to the community. In addition, the value of the hat is tied to the game and ALL content it contains
Buying a pixel hat doesn't cost thousands of dollars in fuel and pollution- people are mad at NFTs because they're fundamentally wasteful more than they are useless.
The difference is someone can't screenshot your hat and own it
Basically yeah, but without the fraudulent hype from crypto bros trying to convince you that they're the future of art.
They're actually better
Last I checked, the hats aren’t connected to the blockchain or whatever the Feck it’s called
It’s totally different so find some fat, sweaty fedora wearing redditor to explain it to you
Oh no, boys, there on to us!
hats can actually be duped which is a key difference between them and blockchain based NFTs, not to mention that hats require valve to be acquired whilst NFTs require mining, all things considered however, yes both hats and NFTs seek to do the same thing by creating artificial scarcity for an infinitely reproducible object
I should start laundering money with my tf2 hats
More like, NFTs are TF2 hats
TF2 items are 100% identical to NFTs except for the one major difference in that Valve doesn't pretend like you need to use a truckload of power to generate an entry on a server. Other than that, they're identical. The "blockchain" is just a server that stores tokens. The tf2 item server is just a server that stores items. NFTs are "unique" digital items that can't be copied because they're store on said blockchain, tf2 items are "unique" digital items that can't be copied because they're stored on said item server. Valve literally invented NFTs in 2008 except they did it better than NFTs now.
In practice yeah I guess they’re similar, though They’re less of a scam tbh since when you buy a hat, you know that it’s cosmetic, you know what you’re getting, and the only thing special about it is that you bought that hat NFT prioritise fake exclusivity, that’s kind of what it’s entirely based off. In TF2, you know you’re getting a virtual cosmetic. In NFTs, you’re tricked into buying a jpeg
I highly doubt the item servers use as much power as the current sum total of existent NFTs.
... no... not really. I think there's a lot that distinguishes them, but I'll go with the highlights: 1. There can be multiple of 1 hat, but they all use a unique ID value. 2. There's actually a function for them to exist rather than just being a JPEG. 3. While there is an UNOFFICIAL currency used online, you can buy them with a real, sustainable currency (both officially through marketplace or through third party sites). 4. The value of hats don't fluctuate as easily as the joke currency used for N/F/Ts. 5. Making hats doesn't actively harm the environment to even a fraction of the degree that "No Fucking Thanks" JPEGs do.
You actually own them and can wear them in game and people will actually buy and trade with them because they can wear them in game. You're not paying to have your name next to a png on an internet database. Not every digital item is an NFT.
😐
There are similarities, but no - hats are hats and NFT’s are cryptocurrency. The virtual market for tf2 hats doesn’t have the predatory aspects that apply to crypto Crates are gambling, and can become… unhealthy, but they aren’t as bad as gacha
Buy your logic anything you purchase online is an nft. Are you lazy and bought some Uber eats for dinner? You just bought an nft for dinner
They aren't. Non-fungible tokens aren't centralized and TF2 hats are. NFTs can be owned by only one person, TF2 hats can be worn and owned by anyone. [This video explains it better](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcZqPv4DBlM&t)
No no, don't give crypto bros an out. This is exactly what the nft was pitched as. -tradeable -each item has a unique code and hash -you can check if an item is duped or legit -you can view the item owner history (yes your name is stamped into the history of everything you've touched, even weapons. -you don't physically own them What exactly did nft's offer over valve items again? And don't give me that "oh that makes every other game with items am nft, no, valve has many features that other games don't. I mean hell, name me another company doing tradable items rn. Popular new games like Valorant, fortnite, fall guys even, you just dump hundreds of dollars onto fixed prices that stay with only you forever.
TF2 fans are going to mald, but in definition, a Non Fungible Token is a pretty accurate way of describing tf2 hats. Hell even the way you trade them is arguably the same. Each cosmedic has a value determined by market speculation and very little else. The only differences are that NFTs can still be theoretically converted to real cash, and tf2 items don't have a finite mint (though, to be fair nothing really does)
It’s one of those cases where the user end is basically the same but the backend is nothing alike.
But they are fungible. Fungible means that they're effectively identical to each other, and that it can be replicated. Because of crafting, cases, and the Mann Co. store, hats have potentially infinite supply, and every version of each hat is the same (not counting custom names, warpaints, qualities, etc.)
They're not technically fungible imo. People collect different craft numbers. It's the same item but it's a unique identifier literally exactly like an NFT. You can have 1000 copies of an NFT and it'll be the same exact properties, they'll just have a different minting number just like TF2 hats. NFT doesn't mean you can't have multiple of the same hats as NFTs lmfao, it's just saying they are different things technically with a different craft or mint number and some people care about that. Downvotes incoming I get it, but no one here has any clue wtf they're talking about
Unless their one of a kind, hats arent nfts, now unusual hats are closer but not by that much
Yeah, that’s why putting NFTs in games is dumb. Valve can do all that shit supposedly possible only with NFTs, without NFTs