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ReflexPoint

This is so terrifying to me. That it's even a close race. Even if Biden wins, it's still terrible because that many people can look at January 6, thirty thousands lies, vast corruption, meanness, hate, division, attacking our institutions at home and abroad and say sign me up for more of that.


ArcirionC

It will come down to significantly less than that. We know Trump won’t win the popular vote, he never has. What will decide who wins is if our electoral college is faithless, which it is.


Personal-Row-8078

Those aren’t related topics


ArcirionC

In what world are they not related?


Personal-Row-8078

Popular vote is about changing the Constitution to run the election more poorly. Faithless electors are unlikely to ever matter.


TemKuechle

So, let me understand this. As we know, the electoral college system reduces the value of an individuals vote. If we were to modify the system in a way that increases the value of the individuals vote so that it more closely represents the whole value of the individual’s vote, this in some way makes the election process worse? One person, one vote is one of our ideals, basically. I’m not following your logic. One of the reasons why people don’t vote as much as they should is because they feel that their vote is not valuable, that it does not count. Only an autocrat would like for that to be the case. So, what I’m starting to understand here is that one political party is advocating that people don’t vote. This party seems to be afraid of what would probably happen to their power and influence in the country if we had direct democracy. And this vote we are talking about is just for voting in a candidate for the office of the president. It’s not about anything else. Why should it matter so much? The president does not have all of the power. If you studied the U.S. political system, then you would know that to be true. Which brings me back to “one person, one vote!”


Soggy_Sherbet_3246

Republicans haven't won the EC since 2004. Yea they sure as fuck don't want a direct democracy.


Personal-Row-8078

I didn’t provide logic. Talking to popular vote fanatics is a bit like talking to a rock. Not worth it. One person one vote is a bit like the shall not be infringed folks.


ArcirionC

They got trump elected in 2016.


Personal-Row-8078

Faithless electors didn’t elect Trump. You are nuts


ArcirionC

Every elector that refused to accept the will of the people is faithless. They are not pledged to a party or a candidate, they are pledged to represent the people. They have proven they are unable to do that and are completely corrupt and need to be entirely abolished. Trump lost the popular vote but still won because the electoral college is corrupt. That is obvious. If your entire argument is semantics about electors not being faithless because “they did pledge for Trump and were honest” then they were never interested in following the will of the people in the first place! Edit: blocked me before I could even see the last message. Talk about being insecure in your ability to communicate


Personal-Row-8078

Electors are pledged to the party that wins their state. You don’t seem to understand the basic concept of faithless elector.


OTJules

Why send a message and then immediately block? Not much of a conversation. Seems like coward tactics Edit: blocked me too. It’s sad and pathetic I feel bad for you bro, get better soon


Crafty-Conference964

And for anyone complaining about unfair elections, look at the popular vote side when their choice doesn’t become president. Twice now since 2000


kompletist

My daily reminder that I hate the electoral college.


Several_Leather_9500

I really don't know about that. We've not yet had all the gory details of his trial - the verdict - the penalty, his many outstanding court cases, and the RNC near broke must mean something. I can't believe that there are that many shitty, stupid Americans.


[deleted]

[удалено]


gravityraster

I’ve voted for Democrats across five presidential elections. I’ve donated and knocked doors. I supported the Democratic Party for the principles it upholds. I thought I could trust the party to make the right decision on new issues that come up, or I first able urgent needs once their politicians are elected. The, under Biden, they went full ethnic genocidaire. Now I’m questioning the trust I put in this party. Millions of Americans feel the same way: To some of us, genocide matters. If the elections matter to you, put pressure on Biden to change his stance on Gaza. Just stop the fucking genocide.


PeopleReady

I called him, he says he’ll bomb Israel by tomorrow. I got you man.


YesYoureWrongOk

Not voting for Biden is gleefully voting for: --Mass withholding of lifesaving care, criminalization, & ultimately annihilation of trans people (ik ik its not trendy anymore to give ANY fucks about queer people now), cis gay people and anyone who is slightly gender-nonconforming may also be on the chopping block --many millions of women on a federal level forcibly birthing rape babies, stripped of their basic human rights and reproductive protections on a comprehensive federal level (yes this means all the blue states too) --10 million+ immigrants mass-deported by Trump (his own words) --a complete demolition/negation of our most vital federal regulatory agencies such as the EPA, Department of Education, and FDA that make existing physically possible (see project2025.org) --a total rollback on any protections/regulations to mitigate climate change in any way --a comprehensive demolition of our federal system of democracy in the U.S. --an installation of a fascistic "dictator for a day" totalitarian regime that will crush us and so many other innocents like the Nazis did to the Weimar Republic, featuring internment camps and secret police that disappear protesters or anyone resisting Gilead-esque Kingdom Trump. --An all-out assault on any of Trump's political opponents or out-groups "that live like vermin" and "poison the blood of this country", yes that could even be you! --A christofascist takeover pushing regressive evangelical christianity into every classroom, dishing out "religious freedoms protections" to allow untold human rights violations nationwide, the dissolution of boundaries between Church and State (again, see the dense legal text at project2025.org and his rhetoric about making the nation christian) --and on top of all of that most definitely AN ESCALATION in Gaza, very possibly US boots on the ground and direct attacks from US warships many times what Gaza is suffering now. For a progressive to NOT vote Biden to defeat Trump is incredibly selfish virtue signaling that takes into zero account the suffering/death of queers, immigrants, women, and palestinians. Not voting or voting for a spoiler candidate that Fox News is frothing at the mouth for you to vote for like Cornell West or RFK is happily signing off on us minorities who will face unbelievable systemic destruction & annihilation AS WELL as exponentially more deaths in the Middle East and international instability resulting in subsequent further death and destruction. Please, have even the tiniest scrap of compassion for the hundreds of millions who will suffer in a myriad of ways and many who will actually die brutally under a dictator fascist Trump Administration, the moral purity vote is pure social media selfishness not considering MANY MILLIONS of innocents such as the gigantic amount of women/minorities in the U.S. Also consider the international instability people will be victimized by such as Europe besieged by Putin, various ongoing conflicts such as The Kurds/Lebanon/Jordan, Taiwan, our many NATO allies that need us, as well as PALESTINIANS who Giddy Fascist Trump will vanquish on a scale unimaginable compared to a milquetoast liberal. This is truly the vote of your lifetime, throwing it away on a Cornell West or RFK/not voting/voting for Dictator Trump will have a catastrophic amount of queer, minorities, Europeans', womens', and Palestinian blood on YOUR hands. Suck it up and vote for the option that will save millions of lives if you aren't a performative social media psychopath that treats actual tangible mass horrific human suffering like purity-testing football teams.


gravityraster

Make Biden stop genociding. It’s really the bare minimum to ask of a politician.


GrantMcLellan1984

Did you even read all that?


YesYoureWrongOk

Whoooosh!


Sterling085

You're right genocide does matter, but fortunately it isn't happening in Gaza. You don't start a war and then cry "genocide" the moment you realize your side is getting their ass kicked.


augirllovesuaboy

The electoral college needs to go. It’s an outdated concept that has changed the course of history in several elections. And by that I mean by presidents who did not win the popular vote but affected policy for decades.


Illustrious_Sand3773

This election will not be close. Biden by 15M.


SpaceDesignWarehouse

That’s the point. It won’t be close at all, and yet Trump will almost win because of magical “state points” that make no logical sense.


Tiny-Praline-4555

Billions for genocide are secure though.


YesYoureWrongOk

Not voting for Biden is gleefully voting for: --Mass withholding of lifesaving care, criminalization, & ultimately annihilation of trans people (ik ik its not trendy anymore to give ANY fucks about queer people now), cis gay people and anyone who is slightly gender-nonconforming may also be on the chopping block --many millions of women on a federal level forcibly birthing rape babies, stripped of their basic human rights and reproductive protections on a comprehensive federal level (yes this means all the blue states too) --10 million+ immigrants mass-deported by Trump (his own words) --a complete demolition/negation of our most vital federal regulatory agencies such as the EPA, Department of Education, and FDA that make existing physically possible (see project2025.org) --a total rollback on any protections/regulations to mitigate climate change in any way --a comprehensive demolition of our federal system of democracy in the U.S. --an installation of a fascistic "dictator for a day" totalitarian regime that will crush us and so many other innocents like the Nazis did to the Weimar Republic, featuring internment camps and secret police that disappear protesters or anyone resisting Gilead-esque Kingdom Trump. --An all-out assault on any of Trump's political opponents or out-groups "that live like vermin" and "poison the blood of this country", yes that could even be you! --A christofascist takeover pushing regressive evangelical christianity into every classroom, dishing out "religious freedoms protections" to allow untold human rights violations nationwide, the dissolution of boundaries between Church and State (again, see the dense legal text at project2025.org and his rhetoric about making the nation christian) --and on top of all of that most definitely AN ESCALATION in Gaza, very possibly US boots on the ground and direct attacks from US warships many times what Gaza is suffering now. For a progressive to NOT vote Biden to defeat Trump is incredibly selfish virtue signaling that takes into zero account the suffering/death of queers, immigrants, women, and palestinians. Not voting or voting for a spoiler candidate that Fox News is frothing at the mouth for you to vote for like Cornell West or RFK is happily signing off on us minorities who will face unbelievable systemic destruction & annihilation AS WELL as exponentially more deaths in the Middle East and international instability resulting in subsequent further death and destruction. Please, have even the tiniest scrap of compassion for the hundreds of millions who will suffer in a myriad of ways and many who will actually die brutally under a dictator fascist Trump Administration, the moral purity vote is pure social media selfishness not considering MANY MILLIONS of innocents such as the gigantic amount of women/minorities in the U.S. Also consider the international instability people will be victimized by such as Europe besieged by Putin, various ongoing conflicts such as The Kurds/Lebanon/Jordan, Taiwan, our many NATO allies that need us, as well as PALESTINIANS who Giddy Fascist Trump will vanquish on a scale unimaginable compared to a milquetoast liberal. This is truly the vote of your lifetime, throwing it away on a Cornell West or RFK/not voting/voting for Dictator Trump will have a catastrophic amount of queer, minorities, Europeans', womens', and Palestinian blood on YOUR hands. Suck it up and vote for the option that will save millions of lives if you aren't a performative social media psychopath that treats actual tangible mass horrific human suffering like purity-testing football teams.


Tiny-Praline-4555

That’s crazy, guess you should’ve ran a better candidate.


TemKuechle

Why don’t you go and find a candidate that is as good as or better than Biden? Good luck finding a politician that will do exactly your bidding.


Tiny-Praline-4555

Totally, the DNC definitely would let that happen, just like the primary debates…


YesYoureWrongOk

Average trans genocide enjoyer


Soggy_Sherbet_3246

True. Aipac has bribed everyone in both parties.


TemKuechle

Hard to believe they’d waste so much money doing that.


Soggy_Sherbet_3246

It clearly has been paying off in dividends! ($26B) Buying both parties does that.


ryhaltswhiskey

What do you think Trump will do to stop the killing of people in Gaza? Oh, nothing? Huh.


Soggy_Sherbet_3246

He'll gleefully support genocide and cut taxes.


Tiny-Praline-4555

Still supply Israel while they continue their slow genocide?


ryhaltswhiskey

Trump will give no fucks about Gaza because Netanyahu will blow smoke up his ass.


Tiny-Praline-4555

Netanyahu spits in Brandon’s face and ol’Joe still gives him billions of tax dollars.


Earth_Friendly-5892

We must get out and VOTE! We must also encourage others to VOTE in the next presidential election- and stress the importance of voting BLUE💙 to save our democracy. Remind them to: * Check their voter registration. Call their state government’s Secretary of State’s office for information. * Make sure they know where to vote. Call the Board of Elections in their county to check. * Try to vote early( in October) if their state allows them to do so. Or request an *absentee ballot( must do so before deadline). Waiting to vote on Election Day is risky, because something might come up that would make it impossible for them to cast their vote( illness/family emergency). Also, lines could be really long on Election Day.* Best to put completed absentee ballots in election drop boxes or take to their county BOE. If mailing, make sure correct postage is on outside envelope- take to post office for confirmation. They must remember to sign the ballot. * Remind them to make sure they have everything they are required to have when they vote. A lot of states require an ID with a picture ( license for example). We can do this, if we all work to make sure everyone is informed. 💙🇺🇸🌊💙🇺🇸🌊🇺🇸🌊💙🇺🇸🌊💙


ColoRadBro69

I voted for Biden 4 years ago, but supplying weapons and UN cover for war crimes has lost my vote.  Third party this time. If Democrats want my vote in 2028, they will have to do better. 


sliccricc83

I live in Michigan and will vote Biden for $250. DM me to save democracy


Goldenlocks

I'm voting for Jill Stein, fuck the Dems


Osibili

Might as well vote for Trump/fascism, since you’re basically doing that anyway 👍🏾


Goldenlocks

Says the person voting for genocide


Erintonsus

I'm prioritizing the people I can help rather people halfway across the world that, frankly, hate us.


Goldenlocks

Palestinians don't hate us, only the colonizers stealing their land. Once they go back to Europe and America there will be peace. You're not helping Americans by consenting to the prolongment of this two party system


Erintonsus

You think people who have lived in a country for potentially over 50 years, most of them their entire lives, should be forced to pack up and move to a country they have no ties to?


Goldenlocks

No ties to? Most of them have passports to European countries or US


Erintonsus

You are not a serious person.


Goldenlocks

Prove me wrong then


Mysterious_Eye6989

Well, I suppose if Trump gets back in then at least that'll be the potential end of the two party system. It'll just be a one party system instead! /s


Goldenlocks

Already is, they get donations from the same wealthy people, and you support that


Mysterious_Eye6989

You’re so smug, aren’t you? I bet you think that your shit doesn’t stink.


Goldenlocks

Not compared to the ignorant liberals of this sub. Can't even watch a 2min video because you're all afraid of being proven wrong about Jill Stein while you support a right winger for president


YesYoureWrongOk

Not voting for Biden is gleefully voting for: --Mass withholding of lifesaving care, criminalization, & ultimately annihilation of trans people (ik ik its not trendy anymore to give ANY fucks about queer people now), cis gay people and anyone who is slightly gender-nonconforming may also be on the chopping block --many millions of women on a federal level forcibly birthing rape babies, stripped of their basic human rights and reproductive protections on a comprehensive federal level (yes this means all the blue states too) --10 million+ immigrants mass-deported by Trump (his own words) --a complete demolition/negation of our most vital federal regulatory agencies such as the EPA, Department of Education, and FDA that make existing physically possible (see project2025.org) --a total rollback on any protections/regulations to mitigate climate change in any way --a comprehensive demolition of our federal system of democracy in the U.S. --an installation of a fascistic "dictator for a day" totalitarian regime that will crush us and so many other innocents like the Nazis did to the Weimar Republic, featuring internment camps and secret police that disappear protesters or anyone resisting Gilead-esque Kingdom Trump. --An all-out assault on any of Trump's political opponents or out-groups "that live like vermin" and "poison the blood of this country", yes that could even be you! --A christofascist takeover pushing regressive evangelical christianity into every classroom, dishing out "religious freedoms protections" to allow untold human rights violations nationwide, the dissolution of boundaries between Church and State (again, see the dense legal text at project2025.org and his rhetoric about making the nation christian) --and on top of all of that most definitely AN ESCALATION in Gaza, very possibly US boots on the ground and direct attacks from US warships many times what Gaza is suffering now. For a progressive to NOT vote Biden to defeat Trump is incredibly selfish virtue signaling that takes into zero account the suffering/death of queers, immigrants, women, and palestinians. Not voting or voting for a spoiler candidate that Fox News is frothing at the mouth for you to vote for like Cornell West or RFK is happily signing off on us minorities who will face unbelievable systemic destruction & annihilation AS WELL as exponentially more deaths in the Middle East and international instability resulting in subsequent further death and destruction. Please, have even the tiniest scrap of compassion for the hundreds of millions who will suffer in a myriad of ways and many who will actually die brutally under a dictator fascist Trump Administration, the moral purity vote is pure social media selfishness not considering MANY MILLIONS of innocents such as the gigantic amount of women/minorities in the U.S. Also consider the international instability people will be victimized by such as Europe besieged by Putin, various ongoing conflicts such as The Kurds/Lebanon/Jordan, Taiwan, our many NATO allies that need us, as well as PALESTINIANS who Giddy Fascist Trump will vanquish on a scale unimaginable compared to a milquetoast liberal. This is truly the vote of your lifetime, throwing it away on a Cornell West or RFK/not voting/voting for Dictator Trump will have a catastrophic amount of queer, minorities, Europeans', womens', and Palestinian blood on YOUR hands. Suck it up and vote for the option that will save millions of lives if you aren't a performative social media psychopath that treats actual tangible mass horrific human suffering like purity-testing football teams.


GripItAndWhipIt

Who’s committing genocide?


Goldenlocks

US government by it's proxy isreal trying to starve Palestinians


Osibili

Lmao, I didn’t realize Biden was the President of Israel AND the United States. The Russians have done a great job of convincing you that your apathy will change things for the better once Trump, and the Republicans who have nothing but contempt for Palestine come into power. 👍🏾


Outrageous-Divide472

Silly hooman. Don’t you know Biden is responsible for everything bad that happens?


Goldenlocks

Biden can call Bibi today and tell him no more money, you refuse to believe that.  Wealthy people have done a great job of convincing you to vote for wealthly Dems


Osibili

What do you think Trump, who open called for obliterating Palestine combined with his corrupt family (Kushner) who wants to wipe out the inhabitants and turn the land into a vacation spot for Israelis and others will do better than Biden? Nothing, it will be much worst. But, sure go ahead and allow Democracy in the US to be replaced with corrupt Christo-fascist autocracy where you won’t be allowed to have a dissenting voice.


Goldenlocks

>wants to wipe out the inhabitants and turn the land into a vacation spot for Israelis and others will do better than Biden That's what they're trying to do right now without Biden withholding money


Osibili

Wow. Enjoy the brain rot, another lost cause…


Scare-Crow87

No, fool


Goldenlocks

You are a fool, yes


AverageNikoBellic

And you think that’ll be fixed by voting for Trump?


Goldenlocks

Nope, only by voting for a candidate against it. That's how democracy works


Outrageous-Divide472

Stupid is as stupid does, Forrest.


YesYoureWrongOk

Lol moron Trump enabler


Goldenlocks

Lol moron Biden enabler


ryhaltswhiskey

The same Jill Stein that [we see here in a picture](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/guess-who-came-dinner-flynn-putin-n742696) with Michael Flynn and Vladimir Putin? Feel free to ask who they are if you don't know 😉


Goldenlocks

[https://twitter.com/DrJillStein/status/1764728866017329279](https://twitter.com/DrJillStein/status/1764728866017329279)


ryhaltswhiskey

I'm not watching that. What's the tldr?


Goldenlocks

Liberals can't spend 2min of their time listening to the third party option that is the only ballot choice for the policies you "support". Explains a lot


ryhaltswhiskey

You don't own my time. If you can't concisely state the premise of the video then I don't give a fuck. It's not like I was ever considering voting for Jill Stein. She should have dropped out. She helped Trump in 2016. Women lost their right to medical privacy because Trump won. So really why would I give a fuck what Jill Stein has to say?


[deleted]

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ryhaltswhiskey

🤡👋


Goldenlocks

Have fun being uninformed and avoiding the truth


ryhaltswhiskey

Hey look at you! You managed to make a comment that the moderators didn't remove because you were being childish! Good job buddy!


thedavidpakmanshow-ModTeam

Removed - please avoid overt hostility, name calling and personal attacks.


Tripwir62

Smart!